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AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

By KahunaNui ·
Can anyone document whether or not W95 OSR2 will support AGP 4x cards? We are experiencing problems trying to install an ATI 4x card in that OS using a number of different systems. The 2x AGP will install, but our 4x will NOT install no matter what. We've tried to install an AIW 128 Pro 32MB into:

1. Intel D815EPEA2-U (Tualatin) (Retail)
1.13GHZ Tualatin processor (Retail)

2. Intel SE440BX (Retail)
450 PIII Processor (Retail)

We've confirmed that this card will install in W2K Pro, Win98se so we know the card is OK.

Flashing BIOS hasn't helped.
Upgrading chipset drivers hasn't helped.
Using every driver we could get our paws on hasn't helped.
Installing the above in every conceivable combination hasn't helped. In the beginning we blamed the MB and Intel's lack of support for W95, but after seeing the exact same thing happen in the other system, we are leaning towards W95 OSR2 itself as the culprit.

This is a mission critical system and having tore-install would be a nightmare at best. In every other way, it is Rock Solid. We need this system to run a flavor of Windows as one of the main programs we need to run will not work on an NT based OS.

If we are doomed to re-install, we then will be faced with the choice of W98 or W98se. ME is out of the question. We would like opinions on which of those two are the most stable. We liked OSR2 for its small footprint, and fairly stable performance. We had to go to the upgraded video becuase the AIW Pro 8MB just couldn't keep up with the fast I/O of the Tualatin board/processor.

Any help on this NIGHTMARE will be appreciated. In order to award any points at all, we would need some type of DOCUMENTATION on this issue.

Thank you very much in advance!!!!!!!

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AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

by opatzg In reply to AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

From ati's website:
ATI Technologies Inc. CUSTOMER SUPPORT
Ref I 2445 ATInfo-BASE
-----------------------------------
The following information applies to WINDOWS 95
TOPIC: HANGS SYSTEM WHILE DETECTING 3D RAGE II HARDWARE
-------------------
PRODUCT: 3D RAGE, 3D XPRESSION +, 3D PRO TURBO, PC2TV
-------------------
PROBLEM: During 3D RAGE II installation, the system hangs while detecting the new hardware if a SOUNDBLASTER32 sound card is installed.
DETAILS:
System HANGS when launching Windows 95 (which do not occur if the
sound card is removed) generally occur for two reasons.
DRIVERS: The first step to take is to upgrade the DISPLAY drivers
and the SOUND drivers to current versions. This step is particularly
important with the newer versions of WINDOWS 95 (OSR2).
SYSTEM BIOS: If the DISPLAY and SOUND drivers are current but
problems persist, the SYSTEM BIOS may require upgrading. The ATI
DISPLAY adapter is fully PLUG and PLAY compliant as are many SOUND
cards. HOWEVER, it is the responsibility of the PLUG and PLAY system
BIOS to allocate the hardware resources that the various PLUG and
PLAY devices require. If hardware resource conflicts are suspected
check with the manufacturer of the motherboard for a SYSTEM BIOS
upgrade.
-------------------
SOLUTION: Install the Current ATI Display Driver.
All current ATI drivers are posted elect-ronically**
on the ATI BBS, FTP and CompuServe. Please reference
ONLINE.TXT for a complete listing of ATI's on-line
services.
** For more information contact ATI Customer Support and **
reference ATInfo-BASE file: 2445
============
All company and/or product names are trademarks ============
and/or registered
trademarks of their respective manufacturers

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AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

by opatzg In reply to AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

Not sure this helps any, but wasn't sure whatelse you might have on the system. As a side note, they don't list win95 as a usable operating system only 98,me,2000,xp. Note no nt4.0 either.
If the card purchase was recent, won't they let you know it won't work as part of support?

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AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

by KahunaNui In reply to AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

Appreciate the response, but the ATI chipsets listed and this help doc is non-applicable to our situation. I would challange *anyone* to confirm whether this card works in this OS at all. If so, what Hardware was used for this to install... We can get cards like the Rage 128 (Xpert99 Xpert2000) and other AGP 2x cards to install, but this 4x is a NO GO...

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AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

by chriswales In reply to AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

If my memory serves; Windows 95 will Not support a 4x card. I had previous troubles with a couple of test systems and upgrading their cards, but I cannot provide any "official" documentation as MS has removed all Win95 documents etc and I do not have the time to dig through my technet CDs from 8 years ago. =)

Updating your 95osr2 to 98SE should give you no problems and not DOOM you either.

Win98SE is the most stable out of your choices.

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AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

by KahunaNui In reply to AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

This - more or less - coincides with what we are finding. However, we are upset that ATI lists the drivers for this card supported for W95 OSR2 and visa versa. We are now challenging them to document this card will work in that OS at all. So far they have not gotten back to us on that.

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AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

by TheChas In reply to AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

I recall reading that W95 only supports up to AGP 2X also.

It is not listed in ANY of the AGP specifications that I have found.

Actually, I am surprised that you were able to get W95 to install on your PC at all!
There have been many reports of not being able to install W95 on the P IV platform.

Since your application is mission critical, I strongly suggest switching to either W98SE, W2K, or XP Pro.

If I find any documentation on W95 and AGP modes supported, I will add it to my post.

Chas

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AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

by KahunaNui In reply to AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

Well, we haven't tried OSR2 on a PIV system, the latest we have tremendous success on was the Tualatin PIII. But this was using the AGP 2x cards and we had no problems whatsoever other than the slow speed of the video. We left the ball in ATI's court. We relied upon their driver(s) documentation and actual conversations before purchasing these cards. If it is true that this card or any 4x AGP card will NOT install into W95B, then they are irresponsible claiming support. When we get this brand new Retail card, we'll be interested to see what the original drivers tell us. So far ATI is mum on this.

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AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

by KahunaNui In reply to AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

Sorry Charlie (TheChas)... we didn't mean to cut you off and we really appreciate your offer to check further into the documentation that you mentioned. This is what we need. We have literally put the ball into ATI's court because we feel that they were irresponsible to claim support for W95. So far they've been kind of dancing around this issue. Pretty soon, they will run out of room and have to come clean on whats up here. Wouldn't you think that THEY would know about the OS's compatibility and limitations?!!

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AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

by KahunaNui In reply to AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

Point value changed by question poster.

We are increasing the points in hopes of attracting someone who can either document they've installed this card into *any* flaver of W95, or it is not possible. If anyone has installed this into W95 we need to know:

1. Which version of W95 was used?
2. Which hardware platform was used? (Motherboard, chipset, processor).
3. Which drivers were used?

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AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

by arclites In reply to AGP 4x & W95 OSR2

I am seeing 4x AGP listings with W95 driver support. I can only add pointers to general install failures over the years with Windows 95b etc.

There is a documented installation bug in W95, it usually bites you in the rear end when you are most under pressure to succeed in a short time. Sorry if this old stuff to you, but if not, the symptom is an irretrievable install failure usually requiring a fresh OS build for time's sake. DO NOT click 'Finish' until you have counted at least 30 seconds, or until the drive activity light goes out and stays out.

It seems you are trying for a quick fix when you are dealing with a 'mainstream' and complex set of variables where chipset AGP PCI bridge, CPU and bus speeds, bus mastering, DMA's and PnP can all hang you out. I feel that someone's got to do the work from the ground up, you should be wiser for the experience.

It's clear I'm guessing what your problem is here, the description you offer is 'qualitative' more than quantitative. Whatis the sequence of events during install? What do you expect to happen stage by stage? What happens instead? What role does the statement of "AGP 4x not supported by Windows 95" represent? We should be better than the sum of our parts. Good luck.

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