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Alright, well what about Fort Hood?

By Oz_Media ·
I figured I'd let it sit a bit and see if anyone else mentioned it, because if I do it is Anti-American slander, but perhaps nobody is aware or interested?

Fort Hood, arguably the largest military base on Earth, has been subject to a mass killing of 11 with 31 more injured, one gunman dead and 2 others suspect.

This is a horrific incident and not unique to the US or US military tensions. I don't think it's an example of the US military, a detriment to their training or mental capacity, it is just a few of many tens of thousands of trained personnel, who simply seemed to snap.

My heart goes out to the families who were already wary of their sons and daughters fighting a war and being in grave danger, only to find out that their own brothers on their own soil had ended their lives. Nothing could seem more tragic or senseless to their parents, who will never accept of be appeased by any explanations or answers they receive.

My reason for posting is twofold, one is to offer my deepest sympathies to anyone on the base, the parents and relatives of the soldiers who fight for their nation; though such small words would never have any bearing on this tragedy.

Secondly punishment: Now as one gunman is dead, his punishments need not be discussed. apparently there are two others who were also involved though, and are in custody.

Questions: IF and that's a VERY big if, these two men are also found guilty of murder, shooting fellow US soldiers on their own base, how will/should it be handled?

Considering that this is Texas:

If they are guilty of murder, of a fellow soldier or any civilian too I suppose, will/should they be incarcerated by the army? Will/should they spend life imprisoned?

Will they be sentenced to death, as any other person found guilty of mass shooting would be?

or do you think that because they are soldiers, and because they are subject to additional stresses most citizens are not, will/should they be excused to a certain degree, have reduced sentences, spend life in jail, be put into psychiatric care etc?

At this point it is pure speculation, they are not pr oven guilty of a crime and should not be treated as such.

however this is a 'what if' situation.

What if they are guilty?
What WILL happen, what SHOULD happen?


Once again, I am very sorry to hear of this incident, in the US or anywhere else for that matter.

I make no implications of inadequacy on the part of the US military, I blame no training or soldiers, just the men who decided to execute their brothers in arms.

However will a patriotic, military overtone overlook or excuse the real, criminal actions of this man(these men)?

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soldier shooting fellow soldiers - especially on a military base

by maxwell edison In reply to Alright, well what about ...

is purely a military matter. A military Court Martial will probably result in the first military execution in ?? years - if there was more than one gunman involved. (One was killed, two others apprehended, but how many gunmen remains unclear, at least from what I've heard.)

Speculation will run amok for quite a while concerning the motives of the gunmen.

"A law enforcement official identified the shooting suspect as Army Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan. The official said Hasan, believed to be in his late 30s, was killed after opening fire at the base. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case publicly.

A defense official, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said Hasan was a mental health professional - an Army psychologist or psychiatrist. Officials say it was not clear what Hasan's religion was, but investigators are trying to determine if Hasan was his birth name or if he may have changed his name and converted to Islam at some point."


My heart goes out to the families of those killed and wounded.

Edit:

The question, did he snap or was he a terrorist plant, is one that is on the minds of many - including me. (The gunman wasn't a combat soldier, so why would he snap? But then again, I'm sure he treated scores of them, hearing stories, etc.) I'm sure the answer will be pursued with all diligence, but I can only hope politics doesn't keep it a secret.

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so you see it as even ground

by Oz_Media In reply to soldier shooting fellow s ...

As far as the punishment via court marshall, you think he would be executed if found guilty?

I'd like to think so, too regardless of his modus operandi, psychological state of being, I think he should be treated as any other murderer in Texas, another one to be executed.

To be clear, you know very well that I don't condone the death sentence unless we can be 100% certain, not just beyond a reasonable doubt, of such a crime worthy of execution. as we often make mistakes with such sentencing, I don't see it as reasonable action.

However, in this case, there is absolutely NO question with respect to the man man who was killed, the others in custody will also be found out with absolute certainty due to the number of witnesses as well as the obvious number of security cameras on and around the base.

One situation where I hope justice will be served swiftly and with full effect.

NOTE: I too read the speculation regarding his background, religion etc. However I refrained from mentioning it as, at this time, it simply creates prejudice.

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You have to make the distinction

by maxwell edison In reply to so you see it as even gro ...

Texas has nothing to do with it. Military installations within a state are like foreign embassies within another country.

Military justice will apply, not that of the state of Texas.

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I do understand that

by Oz_Media In reply to You have to make the dist ...

My comparison was that a normally Texas law would execute someone for the same crime.

Based on that, will the accused get it easier as he is in the military and tried under military law?

It's highly likely in another state, the accused would get off on an insanity plea, have a life sentence (or several consecutive terms) etc.

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Negative

by CharlieSpencer In reply to I do understand that

"...will the accused get it easier as he is in the military and tried under military law?"

Negative. If anything, his sentence will be harsher. Remember, his victims were military.

The state is irrelevant; this is completely a matter for military law.

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Says who?

by Oz_Media In reply to Negative

"It all depends on the agreements setup between the Army and the State, etc.

Some bases allow any crime that is also punishable by local jurisdiction to be tried in local courts.
A very few insist on military right of jurisdiction.
Any matter that is only punishable by the military would of course default to the military.
"


http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=320458&messageID=3196010

You see I THOUGHT he would automatically be tried by the military too, however upon asking I found out that's not necessarily true though.

The only reason I initially asked about the state was to consider if he would get the same punishment any other citizen comitting such a crime in Texas would face.

It's not irrelevant at all, in fact it is entirely relevant because that was the reason for the OP.

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Trying to keep up with you.

by CharlieSpencer In reply to Says who?

Like you, I (and I suspect most of us) made the same assumption. All of my previous responses have been based on that assumption.

Now, ASSUMING the case is handed over to the civilian courts, AND he's found competent to stand trial, AND convicted and not found insane, there's still no guarantee he'll be sentenced to death. However, a civilian trial eliminates the unlikely possibilities of closed doors or receiving softer treatment by other soldiers because he's one of them.

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You caught up well, then

by Oz_Media In reply to Says who?

Exactly the sort of reply I was looking for.

Many seem to think he's be treated more severely by the military, which is true in many cases and the impression they give off to me too, especially when public and they need to set examples. However it can go either way, I think (as you've noted also), depending on what's best for their own political and security interests.

I was interested if people thought it usually goes one way or another, however it seems most feel it would be a military issue and that they wouldn't deceive public, or wouldn't be able to in this case anyway.

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Additional consideration.

by CharlieSpencer In reply to Says who?

Texas was the state with the most military enlistments on this unfortunately undated chart:

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/mil_tot_mil_rec_arm_nav_air_for-recruits-army-navy-air-force

The accompanying linked chart has it seventh per capita. Numerous military bases are a significant portion of the Texas economy, one reason why it's also a popular state for military retirees.

My point in these stats is that Texas has strong ties to the military (as does the southeastern US in general). Any hypothetical civilian trial would have a sizable percentage of people with military ties in the juror pool. It's debatable whether a defense attorney would view that as a good thing or a bad one, but there would likely be too many to exclude them all if desired.

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By the way, personally speaking. . . . .

by maxwell edison In reply to so you see it as even gro ...

..... I oppose the death penalty (whether it be state, federal, or otherwise). But it's not a hot button issue with me.

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