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Apples for elementary school?

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by mc_user

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My children's grade school (K thru 8) has finally gotten together some money for new computers, roughly $10,000. This would be for desktops and a server. They are looking for advice.

It is a small school of about 300 students. The computer lab is not a big part of their school day. Computer lab time is only twice a week. The administrator is part time and an Apple fanatic. All of the current equipment is 5 to 7 years old.

Most of the parents use some form of PC/Windows in their daily lives and wonder if they should continue using Macs at the school.

I believe that we could probably get twice as much hardware by buying PC's instead of Macs, but our maintenance and training costs would eat up any kind of savings.

It is my opinion that we should first be looking at the software they want to run first, then decide on the hardware.

Does this seem like a valid approach? Any specific factors I should look for in making purchasing decisions? I would welcome your opinions.

19 replies

by oldefar

I like your thought about looking at the software before the hardware, but maybe you should push that back to an even more basic point. If you determine what the objectives of the computer labs are you can then look at how to meet those objectives for the greatest number of students in a given time frame with the money available.

A thin client approach will provide more student stations than a PC or Mac. However, students will not have the DVD, CD, and floppy use. I suggest you look at http://tinyurl.com/drhn for some ideas. By the way, I am not pushing a Wyse solution, only suggesting a thin client alternative to stretch that budget.

by oldefar

I am wondering if the budget could increase if other technology costs were reduced. In particular, the cost of the school telecom.

You can contact me for more information.

by mc_user

to an ISDN line. Internet access for the students is severly regulated. It is the people in the office who need internet access the most at this time. We get the line for next to nothing through a deal with a local college and their service provider.

by thechas

While I agree with looking at the software first.

There are other issues to consider:

What type of computers are installed at the high schools that your students will move on to?

What type of PCs are other area elementary schools using?

If the high school and other elementary schools use PCs, you may be handicapping your students by teaching them on MACs.

As far as hardware cost go, you may be even money for "quality" PCs versus MACs. This is very true if you can still get discounts and grants from Apple for schools.

Another thing to take into account, is what career path do you see for your students?
If they are headed for graphics arts careers, Apple may be the way to go.
Any other career path, they WILL end up with PCs.

Since the PC took over the computer market, I have seen Apples account for less than 1% of the computers installed in businesses, other than graphics arts.

Chas

by mc_user

I think the school board might be heavily influenced by what other schools in the area are using.

by jardinier

I think it would be a distinct handicap to students to learn on Apple machines, only to find in the real world that the vast majority of people use PCs.
I think that the argument that Macs are superior to PCs in graphic applications is starting to wear thin. Continually I am encountering people who work in the graphics industry who are having to switch to PCs because the company they work for has.
Do not be influenced by someone who is a dedicated Mac user. In my experience they are without exception absolute fanatics who will not admit to any deficiencies in Macs, and will not engage in logical discussion between the two systems.

by john_wills

Are these children using computers so they can become keyboard monkeys or so that they will become informaticians? In the latter case they should have Apples precisely because they are unusual. I am a better informatician with IBM mainframes - and PCs - precisely because I have programmed on other mainframes, just as my English is better than it would be if I did not know some other languages; similarly, starting with Apples they will be able to implement work on IBM clones better. As it happens, I have worked with both Apples and IBM PCs, and I prefer the IBM. I have worked with varieties of Windows; I would work better with Windows if I had OS/2 or Linux experience.

by jimhm

K-8 is a little young to be saying that they need to use a Mac over a PC or a PC over a Mac or a Sun over a PC or whatever. They need teaching tools and educational tools that will help the kids learn and study.

Who cares if they learn Mac or PCfirst - Do you lock yourself into a single technical environment - I only use a PC - no Mainframes - no Unix - No Mac - No Linux - They need exposure to all the environment they can at any age so that aren't affraid of changes - and technology changes...

The main goal - is to get as much hardware and software that 10,000 can get ... Thats the important thing... platform is only important as to what can run on it - if the best educational software runs on Mac - Buy Mac - If it is Intel - BuyIntel - If its Sun/Solaris - and thin client - Buy there ...

These kids are much to you to be hampered by the selection - by the time they are ready for real technology needs - it may be Linux running on a Motorala chip in a Xbox with direct interface to the brain...

by jardinier

Macs dispensed with floppy drives several years ago. They are still standard issue with PCs.
In a fairly recent discussion on this website, an overwhelming majority of members preferrred to have a floppy drive, and it was predicted that it might beseveral years before floppy drives might be phased out altogether.

by thechas

That's a good point Julian.

While many of us no longer use floppy drives for day to day data storage, a floppy drive can be very useful on a school PC for allowing students to save their work.

Chas

by guruofdos

Let's face it...no-one in the 'real world' uses Macs!

Ok, a few print shops, media organisations, artistic types and designers, perhaps...

Like I said, no one in the real world!

by jimhm

In our area - there is local matching funds "Apples for the teacher" - is there anything in your area providing matching funds or assistance with purchases.

At that age - it is the software that is the most important - not that its a pc or mac or sun or thin or thick -

Need to set what they want to do first - then match to that need..

by mallardtooxx

Iam by no means a MAC man. I personally hate MAC and I think it is a detriment to society. Well maybe not that bad, but you get the point.

However, my daughter, much to my chagrin has MACS in her school. At first I was adamantly against this, I ranted, I raved, I preached. Finally my wife told me to shut up and ask my daughter.

Get this, our kids are far more computer savvy than any of us, I would say at least 10 fold. My daughter makes the transition between MAC and PC like I change my pants. The different OS makes no appreciable hindrance to any of the children in her class nor can they really tell the difference except "dad's computer is not a pretty color."

I would say string the budget and get the best deal, do not fear for the children, they will be more able to adapt than your part time Admin or their teachers. We must remember that our children adapt to computers like our grandparents adapted to adding machines and the thought of minimum wage!

Just a thought

-duck

by jpelectron

I realize this is a little off topic, but have you considered software to block porn and file-sharing clients?

I designed some software about year ago for my customers (mostly schools and librarys) that will prevent users from getting to these kinds of websites...

http://www.jpelectron.com/dnsredir.htm

Protect your investment and liability, this is a great effort on your part to help the school, but do your homework.

by jimhm

Interesting sales pitch - I didn't notice a here when you get your hardware - I will give you X copies for free to help you out...

That would of been a nice thing to add - because there are tons of spam/site filter/Internet control software on the market - that give it to K-12 for Free...

by deeda

This is just a thought, but is there any business in town or near your town that would be willing to maybe donate any computers that they might have. Yeah they wont be brand new, but it would also help you on your budget. I used to work for a headstart school that a fairly large business would donate their used Laptops. Just thought I would give you something to maybe think about.
Good Luck!

by mc_user

Thank you for all your comments. It has given me a lot to think about. I welcome further comments.
Note:
I have three children, ages 10, 8 and 7. All three learned to use the Macs at school that are running OS 8.x through 10.x. At home I've set up an old mac that runs system 7.5 and a PC that runs W98. With less than 20 minutes of training my kids learned to boot and run program on either of these machines. They know how to start and shut down the PC's properly. How to load CD ROMs and install software on either machine.

They don't really care about the OS's, just what programs run on what machine. It is the adults on the school board who are wondering how they can streach out their buying dollar for the longest amount of time.

by oldefar

I was referencing voice as well as data in telecom. It is surprizing how much most organizations overpay. :)

by oz_media

Sounds like you are in the telecom industry. I aasume that you are thinking VoIp, which may or may not ofer a cost reduction.
Granted, the initial hardware costs are almost immediately recovered wityh a DECENT VoIP system, not just some AVAYA solution but a decent PBX.
The administrative and infrastructure costs would be heavy though.
I have just recently detailed the VoIP system to link all the cities in Vancouver Island together on a common network. thankfully, they already had a massiveinfrastructure of ISDN PRI (no BRI), T-1 and Fibre between City Halls. The overall cost was only just over $800,000(CDA)and will be recovered in less than three years. This same system was looked into byu the BC Scholl board but due to their archaic systems (pretty much just a few ISDN's BRI and PRI mixed) it would have cost well over 1.5 million to implement VoIP.

The only way I can see them reducing telecom costs, if they have PRI for data, is to convert from standard business lines to PRI via a PBX. Was this your thought?

Just gathering an opinion from someone dealing with FCC regulated companies.

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