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  • #2256312

    Are companies really that stupid when writing up IT job requirements?

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    by why me worry? ·

    I just got an email from a recruiter who found an old copy of my resume somewhere online. Anyhow, the company he is representing is looking for an Exchange 2003 engineer with heavy experience. Ok, that’s no problem for me, but reading further into the job requirements revealed just how stupid this company, or its hiring manager is. They want someone with over 5 years experience with Exchange 2003, which I can’t see how that would be possible considering Exchange 2003 has only been out for less than 4 years or so. How is it humanly possible to have more experience than the product has actually been out on the market? Anyhow, when I replied back to the recruiter, he got all defensive and insisted that this is what the company is seeking and will not change this. I responsed stating that he will have a very hard time finding someone with such magical experience, being that it is unrealistic, unless the candidate was an employee of Microsoft and got training on Exchange 2003 before it was publicly available. Granted, the beta may have been around at the time, but that should not count as “work experience” because nobody in their right mind would be running a beta on a production network.

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    • #2535103

      Chinese whispers

      by tony hopkinson ·

      In reply to Are companies really that stupid when writing up IT job requirements?

      Five years experience and Exchange 2003 was the original request at a guess.

      As for the plonker you talked to, bet he didn’t know 2003 was a year.
      If either of us had become a recruiter, we’d have rung the client back and said this is bollox, politely of course 😀

      Still don’t get it me, like going into a major high street retailer and asking advice on what PC to buy.

      • #2535062

        I’ve got an even better story for you about recruiters

        by why me worry? ·

        In reply to Chinese whispers

        Another recruiter, who was probably very desparate to close a deal and simply fill a position with just anyone, wanted a copy of my resume before I even knew what the position was all about. I know their game and am not stupid, so I first asked him if the company was willing to pay my minimum salary requirements, because I have learned from experience not to waste time on interviews that end up in me getting lowballed because I wasn’t informed about what they can pay. Needless to say, the recruiter said that they are willing to pay that salary and asked me for my resume. I asked him for a detailed job description, which he did send to me in exchange for a copy of my resume. OK, but he isn’t getting a copy of my resume in MS Word format to botch up with his company logos. No, I sent him a PDF version of my resume which is locked down against modification or printing. After that, I never heard from that fool ever again. If he or any other dumbass recruiters think they can peddle me off as some cheap laborer, then they are very wrong. I tell them straight out that I don’t have time to waste on interviews if they are looking for a low paid Jack of all trades.

        Am I arrogant in a sense? Yes I am, because I know my market value, and I don’t like having my time wasted on companies that don’t know what they want in terms of skills.

        • #2534998

          I had one clown who already had my cv

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to I’ve got an even better story for you about recruiters

          put me forward for a job before he asked me. When I said it wasn’t suitable, he said I was over valuing myself, and that he had my best interests at heart!

          The only reason to sell yourself cheap, is you can’t sell yourself expensive.

        • #2533662

          “Are you flexible on the salary or rate”?

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to I had one clown who already had my cv

          And my response is “HELL NO” because I know my market value and if this dumbass of a recruiter can’t close the deal at the salary/rate I desire, then perhaps he/she isn’t such a great recruiter.

          If they want cheap labor, I can introduce them to a few guys named Kumar, Pratesh, and Patul who have H1-B visas, but I won’t work for peanuts.

        • #2533053

          More clowns

          by s.mcgahan ·

          In reply to I had one clown who already had my cv

          One told me on the phone that I couldn’t turn an interview down purely on the basis of the money involved in the post. I laughed and told him that’s exactly what I was doing.

          Another set me up for interview to do desktop support when all my recent experience indicates that I haven’t been responsible for desktop support in almost 10 years.. oh and it was paying well below my salary expectations.

          To summarise, recruiters are *****.

        • #2534500

          Bottom feeding recruiters who do keyword searches are the worst.

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to More clowns

          Yes, I have certain keywords in my resume, such as Cisco and SQL, but having set up a CiscoWorks server or a Microsoft SQL cluster does not make me a CCIE nor a DBA. Also, I am a Microsoft Certified Desktop Support Technician as well as an MCSA and CNE, and haven’t done desktop support in well over a decade, yet I keep getting recruiters offering me peasly deskop support or helpdesk jobs. My resume cannot get any clearer about my being a senior level server engineer/integrator, yet these dumbass recruiters are soliciting me with bullcrap 3 month desktop support contracts with hourly rates that even most McDonalds employees surpass. These idiots need to stop running their keywork searches and start actually reading the resumes in front of them. All the information they need is right in front of them, from skills, experience, to desired salary and position. Also, I cannot overstate how pissed off I get when it’s right there on my online profile that I am NOT willing to travel or relocate, so offering me a position in some hick town God knows where when I live in NY and prefer to work in NY only serves to waste my time and furthers my opinion of not dealing with such bottom feeding recruiters.

        • #2790443

          Can you say bad attitude?

          by barrygraham ·

          In reply to Bottom feeding recruiters who do keyword searches are the worst.

          Wow… I’ll be surprised if you ever find a job that you are happy with! Recruiters are working for their clients and are paid to find what the client is looking for. Just because you may not be named “Kumar” does not make you any better than them and just shows that you are somewhat arrogant?

          Good luck in demanding your way through your career!

        • #2790350

          Couple of points

          by ic-it ·

          In reply to Can you say bad attitude?

          First, you are responding to a thread that is 17 months old.
          Second, consider their points; it is a waste of the recruiters and the potential recruitee’s time and energy to forward asinine opportunities to them. They clearly do not want, nor would they desire a position that they are either not qualified for, or is clearly below their parameters (which have been clearly defined).

          Perhaps you should re-read this thread to understand the thinking of potential candidates. Especially if you are a recruiter. This would give you a bit of insight on how to screen jobs and applicants in order to land the big fish rather than to keep on insulting them and forever losiing the opportunity to work with them.

        • #2799189

          “Bottom feeding recruiters” Im hurt lol

          by jasondloving ·

          In reply to Bottom feeding recruiters who do keyword searches are the worst.

          I was a “keyboard searcher” for over a year and i took great pains to review each application then would find positions matching minimum qualifications to minimum salary requirements then sorted the potiential jobs within a 20 mile radius by location prior to presenting them to a candidate. when done correctly its an extremely difficult job. Some of us do have pride and principals.

        • #2534496

          Can’t turn down interview purely based on money? WTF

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to More clowns

          Since when was this profession looked upon as an obsession with us IT folks? Sure, I love wha t I do, but I work to live, not the other way around. I’m doing this for the sole purpose of providing for my family’s needs and also because I enjoy the work, but to think I will shortchange myself or willingly work for peanuts is a very wrong assessment of me and other IT folks. Hah, one jackass recruiter even asked me what my visa status was and I broke out laughing uncontrollably because that was the most assinine question anyone has ever asked of me because the recruiter himself was Indian and probably an H1-B himself. I told him I was an American citizen and that I don’t deal with recruiters or agencies that employ H1-B visas. That was the end of that conversation.

        • #2534492

          deleted

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to More clowns

          deleted

        • #2534329

          Well you asked for it….

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to deleted

          If you read the resume from top to bottom, you don’t see that. But if you are searching for Desktop or SQL or Cisco, you see all of those things in your resume.

          I used to have a resume stylistically like yours, but at a workshop I went to, I learned to simplify it down a bit which did improve my response rate. You shouldn’t have to explain every task you’ve done or every piece of software you have used.

          Instead, what were your accomplishments at each of those positions – and often that means projects that improved things – made the systems more stable, saved the company money, and so on. That is what we are looking for – acheivers. Your current resume says you filled a role, it doesn’t tell me how you excelled in the role. And thats what you need to do to stand out among the 500 resumes that hit my desk.

          James

        • #2534605

          More recruiter tales

          by lisamorgan ·

          In reply to I’ve got an even better story for you about recruiters

          My pet peeves are: 1) the recruiter who calls you for the job in Wisconsin or Seattle or Georgia when you live in Virginia and have stated on every board that you won’t relocate, 2) the recruiter who sends you the $12/hr help desk job when your entire resume and salary requirements indicate that you haven’t made that little since high school, and my favorite, the ones who blast-mail every opening based on a partial key-word match. I have received numerous “We found your resume and think you would be a good fit for…” e-mails for Oracle, Java, XML, C# MySQL and Unix jobs…all of which would be fine except I am a SQL server, VB.Net developer with no experience (express or implied) in any of the technologies indicated in the requirements.

          I know these ffolks have to cast a wide net, but would you want to work with someone who can’t even be bothered to read your resume?

        • #2534499

          How about 10 years experience in Exchange 2003?

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to More recruiter tales

          Now if that doesn’t show how retarded these people are, then I don’t know what does. Unless it’s magically 2013, I don’t see how anyone can have 10 years experience in a product that has only been out for less than 5 years, let alone 10. I told one recruiter to fix this because it shows the unprofessional and clueless nature of the company looking to fill this position and will deter truly qualified people from applying because they will laugh at such pompousity. Oh yeah, and regarding ASP.NET, I have also seen some pretty stupid requirements of 10 or so years when ASP.NET has only been out for a few years since 2003 or so. HR needs to really consult IT professionals before coming up with job requirements because they are looking idiotic everytime they state unrealistic requirements of the job. Hell, I think I’ll apply for an HR position and shake up the dept by getting rid of the idiots who don’t know their mouse from their keyboard.

        • #2790451

          If you dont want recruiters to contact you

          by barrygraham ·

          In reply to I’ve got an even better story for you about recruiters

          Why don’t you remove your resume from the internet?

    • #2535048

      As so often is the case. . . . .

      by maxwell edison ·

      In reply to Are companies really that stupid when writing up IT job requirements?

      …..what people write and what they really mean might be two different things entirely. In a case like yours, if you really were interested in pursuing that job, I believe it would have been more prudent to read into the job posting, not necessarily take it verbatim. Get an idea of what they’re looking for, research the company a little bit, and structure your resume accordingly. For example, listing on your resume something like, [i]Ten years experience with Microsoft Exchange, the latest version being Exchange 2003[/i], would certainly fit the requirement as you know it to be.

      It sounds to me like you got into the preverbal pi$$ing match with a recruiter over what may have been an insignificant oversight. If you really were interested in pursuing the job, you probably hurt your own chances. Why would you want to do that just to make a point to someone who probably could neither care less or have the first clue about it. Recruiters don’t necessarily know all the nuances of every job they find candidates for.

      I’ve said it a gazillion times, finding a job is less about “qualifications” and more about attitude and presentation. And getting worked-up to the point of showing what may be perceived as a bad attitude could not possibly help your case in any way whatsoever.

      As so often is the case in successful communications, what they mean (and what they really want) is what one should focus on, not necessarily how they say it. And as Richard Carlson wrote, [i]Don’t Sweat the Small Stuff[/i].

      • #2534510

        Yep

        by david.b.clarke ·

        In reply to As so often is the case. . . . .

        Yup. The requirements were screwed up. Happens all the time. I am a senior Development Manager for a certain very large accounting firm.
        I get asked a few questions by our HR people when I recruit a new developer.
        Question 1: Is this a junior, intermediate or senior position?
        Question 2: What are the essential skills?
        Question 3: What are the essential personal qualities?
        Question 4: What are the nice-to-have skills and personal qualities?

        So, here are my answers (for the last position that I needed to fill):
        1. Senior
        2. ASP.NET
        3. Good communication and client-facing skills
        4. J2EE

        So the advertisement goes out…. and the requirement is “Wanted, developer with 8 years experience in ASP.NET”!!!!

        WTF???? The HR person explained it to me:
        Seniors must have 8 years experience. I said that ASP.NET is the requirement – so it has to be 8 years in ASP.NET.

        Luckily, we got applicants who said that they had 8 years in ASP.NET, and the HR person duly forwarded those resumes to me (I duly forwarded them to my shredder).

        • #2534327

          Do you work for HR or does HR work for you?

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Yep

          At my office, I don’t let HR send anything out for a position I am hiring for, unless I’ve reviewed it. I write the job description, HR reviews it, if the position is going to be advertised, they get me to approve the copy.

          Sure its more work, but a little work up front saves a lot of pain later.

          My favorite one was in the mid 90s, when Java had been out for 3 years, someone from Sun told me they saw an ad wanting 5 years experience. He said the only person who qualified was James Gosling, who “invented” java, and had obviously been working on it for a few years before it was released.

          James

    • #2532961

      I had a phone interview with a major international

      by rclark2 ·

      In reply to Are companies really that stupid when writing up IT job requirements?

      The company is locally headquartered, but globally scoped. So I was interested. I did the phone interview. The IT director on the other end obviously either was very, very good, or didn’t know a thing about computers. But ok, I can do the no glory thing if it pays enough.

      So I wrote out an employment contract with no frills but locking everything down with the “The company shall provide…..” verbage and sent it to the recruiter. He calls back and says this won’t do, that the company will negotiate all this stuff but won’t be locked into it on the getgo. Told him not to call back until he had a prospect that wasn’t afraid to sign on the dotted line for what it promised. Haven’t heard from him again.

    • #2539091

      Product of the year Info World 2003

      by pgm554 ·

      In reply to Are companies really that stupid when writing up IT job requirements?

      Ex2K3 was product of the year in 2003 and it wasn’t out of beta according to Infoworld.
      The recruiter is full of sh!t and hasn’t a clue.
      They did the same thing when AD was introduced in W2K server.
      They were asking to to 3 years experience on a product released in 2000 in the calender year 2000.

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