IT Employment·20,095 discussions

Bi-Polar OCD Boss

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First, I’ve learned – never work for a friend. This man and I have been friends for over 8 yrs., he’s been my mentor thru tech school, he begged me to come and work a database project at his new job site.

He got his friend, the previous IS Administrator fired and accepted the position himself.

I have found after a year and a half, that he is an abuser — it’s all verbal, but it is both mental and emotional, and he can be brutal. I am now on acute stress leave. The man gets nose to nose and screams at me, takes my words and twists them them passes them off as truth and if he gets busted he says I lied (sorry, long sentence). He daily tells me every negative thing he can think of about me and my work. He tells me as often as he can that no one there is my friend, he is my only friend. And it goes on, ad nauseum.

Being on stress leave, I have been inactivated in the system. The BPD/OCD boss is still there. I’ve already busted him once for getting into Exchange and reading my email — and threatening to fire me for it!! I’ve gone to HR twice and he’s been written up twice. He lies so much you never know when it’s truth, when it’s a lie, and when it’s half/half. He loves to keep the users in the dark, and flies into rages when pushed into making a commitment (okay, whatever, the network will be up in an hour, now leave me alone!) He screams at all the techs and makes sure everyone can hear him. Did I mentiion he lies. Oh, yes, and that he is really good a lying.

I have documentation on Exchange on my my personal folder on the server. Since he has locked me out, since he can so what he pleases with my email, since all he has to do is change my network password from UserManager, he can get into all my files. Especially those I’ve been documenting and trying to get off the premises since I’ve learned he’s reading my email. He threatened to have me fired if I emailed one more negative thing about him off-premises.

How do I protect myself from this man? I love my work, my job, the people. I don’t want anything vindicitive against this man. But I don’t know how to protect myself from him, since his Admin privileges out-privelege mine, and he can whatever he wants.

I am so afraid of his retribution my knees clatter together. I am on acute stress leave by order of Occupation Therapy (Workers Comp)and so feel like my back is unprotected.

Nervous in Stockton

Topic

Never work for a friend.

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

… nor a relative. Never, never, never.

I’m sorry that you had to find that out the hard way. Many people do, but that’s not much of a comfort, I guess.

Never work for a “family run company”

In reply to Never work for a friend.

… or one the purports to be. Especially if they mix religion into the company culture.

Use a gmail account to get your info out

In reply to Never work for a friend.

Create a seprate mail account both on yur exchange and possible Gmail yahoo. use that to communicate to HR etc. If you have previlages you can create an account and use that to shield him finding out what you are up to. Explain to HR that moving forward you will send all correspondenc e from a public asccount or anonymous account. Good luck , people like that are so insecure they can never keep the focus on getting the work done.

Nice start, but

In reply to Use a gmail account to get your info out

If you are using Outlook to read your mail, why aren’t you creating local personal folders files (*.pst) on a thumb drive so that you can take your mail with you at the end of the day? You can also password that folder so that, getting into your profile or not, without the other password, the boss is SOL.

NEVER leave email on the server where it can be accessed!

USB 40GB 3.5″ External Drive

In reply to Nice start, but

When I was in your situation, I used a portable USB 40GB external drive to pull my mail (*.pst file) and personal files off my computer. The key is to careful and not get caught. Boss wasn’t that smart. He even followed my advice to put his *.pst file outside his profile because his additional profile got wiped out by the helpdesk person. Eventually, that *.pst file fell into my co-worker’s hands.

Anyway, you need to figure out whether this is worth the stress and to fight it out. That previous boss spent 1.5 years to get me canned and he won because my boss had to play with him and HR only supported management. Boss like that are in-human and have no right to lead, to manage, and should be removed. Remember what goes around, comes around. Your boss will have his day, but you may not see it happen. Good luck and be careful…..

I’m sure

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

there will people who disagree with this advice, but I don’t see any other way. You need to MOVE on. You have a skill, take it somewhere else. There is NO way the abuse is going to stop unless the guy gets fired or dies. And there is no way you are going to learn to deal with it better in a reasonable period of time. Move on.

Stand up to the prick

In reply to I’m sure

You need to let him know you will not take his abuse, grow a set and let him know, If he continues the conversation tell him you will continue this conversation in his bosses office. If he continues to talk visit his boss and have a chat. Demand he resolve this issue else you will have to seek legal advise. Harrasment in the workplace is against the law. Harrasment weather sexual or other is usually not tolerated by the upper mgmt

The voices in my head…

In reply to Stand up to the prick

Listen to them when they tell you to go home and clean your guns….No seriously, I had a boss like this once and I ended up getting fired after he gave me one demening job after another. As the old saying goes “when one door closes another opens”. Well, the one that opened was far better than the one that closed. Most people like this have little or no self esteem and need to belittle people around them to bolster their egos.
Don’t give him the satifaction. Take what you have learned here and move on. You will be happier. As the dude for the Men’s warehouse says “I guarantee you”!

Move on and let others know why

In reply to The voices in my head…

I agree though it might be a scary proposition. You should also make it a point to very calmly and cogently express your concerns to upper managment when you leave. I feel sorry for the next poor sap they hire…

Dont be scurred

In reply to Move on and let others know why

Everybody else has some good advise, LEAVE! But before you do, GET SOME evidence of what he’s doing. Accusations only carry so far, and may be construed as liabless information. Get yourself a small tape recorder that fits in your shirt pocket. Go to him and confront him, get him to open his mouth and let stupid come out and play. Then you can have all the proof you need to either get him fired or justify your lawsuit.

Be careful recording.

In reply to Dont be scurred

I like your idea of recording an outburst. I’ve considered doing that myself several times. However, in most states, recording someone without their knowledge is against the law (or so I’ve been told multiple times).

you can record [says the little devil by your left ear >:]

In reply to Be careful recording.

… you just can’t use it in a court of law – and be _really_ careful how you use it.

it should be fine for convincing HR you’re dealing with a nutcase or blackmailing the bozo to back off by letting him know you’ve got the goods on him.

you can’t be arrested for it (tho it’s possible you might somehow face civil liability depending on how you used it or in what context it came out that you had the recording).

re: “illegality” — it’s just not admissable as evidence in criminal court – the rules are more flexible for civil suits so look it up for when you get your big payoff for wrongful dismissal or workplace harassment or what-have-you.

(luckily for me I live in canada where all you need is the consent of _one_ of the participating parties for it to be admissable).

<disclaimer> of course, the preceding should not be considered qualified legal advice -my bro’s a lawyer but this is just a sneaky little whisper from a guy who’s enjoyed putting a few plastic gangsters in their place </disclaimer>

Cover your back

In reply to Move on and let others know why

the best possible way to cover yourself is

anything he assigns you verbally simply followup with an email stating that is what you have understood.

refrain from making any verbal discussions in private. email email and email.

ofcourse like others suggested, if it increases your stress move on. If you donot enjoy your job you are not justifying yourself.

everybody gives out thier best when they are respected and it should be mutual.

manish

Get a good recording, and he might lose His job!

In reply to Cover your back

There are little cameras you could mount on a hat or button, etc. The better your proof, the better your case. When you leave, and you will when you realize that life is too short to live under an emotional terrorist, others will not have to endure your pain if you get the information emphatically and visibly (or by audio) to HR. How important is this guy to the company. What are the skeletons in his closet? I’d bet that all your co-workers would revel in his getting caught in the act by HR. They’re probably afraid to side with you also. Apply for jobs now, while you’re still working. Pray for the Lord to help you. I know that might sound dumb, but believe me it’s not. Anyway, we understand what you’re going through. Keep your chin up.

I agree but ….

In reply to Stand up to the prick

be careful when threatening legal action. All your boss’s boss will hear is lawyer and won’t remember what was said before nor what you say after. He/she will then take the quickest route to resolve this, ie firing you. Best thing to do is walk away when he starts yelling. I had a CFO who was placed as the Exec over the IT department. His head was litterally a mood ring. The redder it got the madder he would be. If you saw him coming down the hallway you could judge by the color of his head whether you should “be scarce” or stand your ground. Eventually he couldn’t get the reaction he wanted from me as I would just walk away. Yeah he would get pissed and yell about it, but it made him look stupid for yelling at me for walking away from him while he was … yelling at me. This has a happy ending. When he couldn’t intimidate the IT guy, he took it out on the pretty accounts payable manager. Short story, he was escorted from the building later by security after being dissmissed by the president.
However I made it entertaining before he got dissmissed. I’d change his screen saver by editing his registry remotely. Instead of calling him on the phone to have him ignore me, I would put him on speaker phone immediately so he couldn’t ignore me. Things like that. But don’t get fired. When you do “move on” don’t let anyone know. Just walk up to HR, tender your resignation and why. You will most likely be escorted from the building since you are an IT person, but YOU choose the time.

Its never worth it

In reply to Stand up to the prick

My experience is if you stand up to someone at this point, it will only feed him ammunition against you and he’ll have no problems letting EVERYONE know about what you did, with several embellishments, I’m sure.

Just answer this one question: “Is this job worth the stress?”. If your answer is yes, start networking, update your resume, and call the head hunters and go to the online job pages. Don’t say anything negative about your current employer during the interview and move on.

A year from now you’ll wonder why you didn’t do it sooner.

-Z

Its never worth it

In reply to Its never worth it

Agree… I’ve learned that: “If you accuse somebody, you empower them.”

The best thing to do is act on your own and leave… that takes away their power and control and is a real kick to their self-esteem.

Stand up for yourself

In reply to Stand up to the prick

Don’t make it a contest. Don’t tell him what a prick he is. Don’t threaten him with legal or other action. Don’t make it about him. Just stand up for yourself and realize that you don’t deserve to be treated this way.

(Let’s call your boss “Phil” for now.)

First keep a mini tape recorder or digital recorder handy in your pocket. Test it in the store and make sure it can pick up conversations while in your pocket.

Next time he is “in your face” and yelling, turn the recorder on for 5-10 seconds then say calmly, “Phil, I’m sorry but unless we can talk about this calmly and rationally this conversation is over.” If he doesn’t stop or it escalates say, “Phil, this is not acceptable and I won’t put up with it. When you’ve had time to settle down come see me.” Then turn around and walk away.

If he isn’t shocked into silence he will (as other posters mentioned) look like an idiot. Repeat this as many times as it takes for Phil to either stop what he is doing or to try to get you in trouble.

Don’t show him the tape or mention it to anyone. Just keep collecting these incidents on tape until you can’t stand it any longer (a dozen or so examples gives you a MUCH stronger case against him.)

If he realizes that his actions don’t have the desired affect he *may* stop. He might just keep doing it or even get worse (annoying but good for you in the long run.) Or he might try to get you fired by reporting you to HR or his superiors.

When he tries to report/fire you, take the tape to whoever reprimands you, to Phil’s boss or to HR (in that order.) Say, “in my own defense, here is what happened.” and play the tape. Use the word “harassment” but don’t threaten or imply legal action. In fact a good way to do it might be to say, “I really don’t have any interest in filing a harassment lawsuit. I just want to be able to do my job and be an asset to the company.”

Doing this, you come out as 1) non-combative. 2) Not looking to cause trouble. 3) Interested in the company’s best interest. And perhaps most important 4) Not posing a threat to Phil’s boss, other upper management people’s jobs or the company. (It doesn’t mean you can’t later actually file a harrassment charge if it doesn’t stop.)

Eventually one of four things is likely to happen. 1) He’ll be fired. 2) He’ll behave… especially when he notices you standing with your hand in your pocket. 3) You’ll still get reprimanded. 4) They’ll fire you.

Be prepared for any of these. (ie: have your resume handy.) If you don’t even want to work there if he were to leave then just get your resume together and start looking for a new job.

KEEP THE TAPE. Don’t hand it over. If they want a copy give them a COPY and not the original. Knowing that you could come back at them with a suit might help prevent #3 or #4.

If you get summarily fired, once you find a new job then go talk to a lawyer and make a harrassment suit against him and the company for wages you lost during your period of being unemployed + legal fees.

UR Giving him way too much power….

In reply to Stand up for yourself

Just fucking leave & don’t say a word…I’m old school…45 yrs…been there done that…UR best revenge is continued success w/their best competitor…and at a higher rate….think about it…My first job out of College was terminated by someone just like U described…Was hired back by another division in the same company at 4 times the hourly rate I got as as an employee…AC…Just tryin’ tah help…

Better yet…

In reply to UR Giving him way too much power….

Sleep w/his wife & his daughter/son then leave w/o saying goodbye…I bet that’d make his Sphincter pucker right up…Old School…AC

Check the law before you tape

In reply to Stand up for yourself

Remember to ask an lawer about the laws regarding one side notification of recording. Some states allow for a conversation to be taped with only one side knowing about it and some don’t. If disclosure is required and not given then you may be facing a criminal charge vs the bosses civil liability. In the long run you would be better served just polishing up your resume and getting out.

Re: Stand up For Yourself

In reply to Stand up for yourself

The problem with all these ideas about recording is that the person doing the recording knows that it’s happening while the person being recorded doesn’t. An argument can be made that because the recording person knew what was going on they acted accordingly and it was inconsistent with when the recorder wasn’t going.

I’d have to disagree as well

In reply to Stand up to the prick

I was the 13th person to leave a State job because of an unreasonable manager. They were on number 16 before they finally gave the “prick” early retirement! A bonus for him!

He had summarily fired several “enemies” of his during my one year tenure and the rest left because of his embarrassing and unprofessional tirades.

Anyone who gave a bad exit interview to HR got a bad reference.

I had a new job before I resigned, and despite the manager’s usual tactics of offering to match the new salary and benefits, left with a handshake, a kind farewell and a smile on my face.

It was the smartest career move I’ve ever made!

I do agree that if you have some evidence to take along with you, it would be a good thing. This particular man was particularly vengeful and nothing he did after someone had “done this to him” would surprise me.

Working for a Friend is asking for trouble

In reply to Stand up to the prick

I used to work with a friend many years ago in the retail industry.We used to go on vacation together and go to bars to pick up women.After 2 months of working together I began to see his true colors,he became abusive and I used to dreed going into work in the mornings.After 3 years I became extremely depressed and by the 4th year I quit in order to protect my sanity from this abusive friend who became my boss.Although that was in my mid 20’s I promised myself I would never allow a boss to make me sick again.I’m 38 years old now if I would ever encounter a situation like that again I would surely defend myself no matter the outcome.Keeping yourself healthy is more important that losing a friend.
My freindship ended after everything that happened.Good Luck

Get to understand ‘bullying’

In reply to Stand up to the prick

If you really want to stay at this job then you will need to understand and defeat his ‘bullying’ behaviour. It can be done, but you will first need to get a grip on how he ticks. He will always defeat you if you do not get ahead of his game. There is lots of stuff on the net about this type of behaviour (narcistic personality??!) – and of course, why does he do it to you! … but, at the end of the day is it really worth it? He is obviously a very sick man.

Harassment

In reply to Stand up to the prick

You give excellent advice here about taking the conversation to his bosses office. In general managers want to contribute to the bottom line of an organization. It makes them look good. If it can be proven that this individual is negatively impacting productivity and the health of his employees perhaps he’ll be let go or given an opportunity to straighten his act up. The only problem with the legalities is that I’m not certain harassment in general is illegal. There are some specific types that are covered by law, but because your boss is a meanie doesn’t necessarily qualify as harassment, including the yelling, etc.

Harassment is illegal in the U.S.A.

In reply to Harassment

It’s called a Hostile Workplace environment and, contrary to popular belief, it doesn’t always have to do with sexual harrasment. Plain old harrasment is just as illegal.

You could sue him and the company over this. The caveat is that the burden of proof is on you. Maybe you should try to connect with that former IS Admin Boss he got fired, or any co-workers or former co-workers who might be willing to testify on your behalf.

Granted, it is a major last resort issue, but what he’s doing is illegal if you can prove it in a court of law. Check the company employee handbook then report this to HR before going to court, though. If HR doesn’t properly investigate the issue or if anyone tries to retaliate against you for reporting it (even your friend-boss), that’s another illegal action and you could really yank them through the ringer in court.

Hope this gives you some help.

Catadmin

Re: Harassment is illegal in the U.S.A.

In reply to Harassment is illegal in the U.S.A.

Harassment is illegal here, however, because someones feelings are hurt, or they get yelled at, or feel like they’re being stressed doesn’t mean that harassment has occured. If StressedandMad feels that she has been harassed, she can pursue legal action, but as you’ve stated, it must be proven in court.

I think all too often in these discussion groups we hear one side of the story and automatically assume that it is true and validated. What we hear in here is the posters perception of the situation which may or may not directly translate to reality. We post all kinds of what we believe to be useful (in some cases not so useful) help (including myself), but I’m certain that if we heard the other side of the story a lot of our views on the situation would change.

I personally didn’t see anything in the original post that solidly qualified as harassment. I saw an individual that either didn’t want to or didn’t have the capacity to stand up for herself. Comments such as the harasser is her friend, and she didn’t want to do anything vindictive in my opinion almost nullifies her whole argument. Her so called friend clearly didn’t extend the same amount of courtesy and respect to her. If she is so unwilling to do the right thing she can’t possibly expect complete strangers to take a stronger stance in her defense. I got the impression from her post that she was either very young or very inexperienced in dealing with the real world.

In any case, she has already posted that she was terminated so all the advice on how she could have handled the situation is moot. Based on her comments it’s unlikely that she will do anything of a reactive nature, in fact she has already posted a question about how to address with future employers her reason for leaving the last company.

Tip from the godfather

In reply to I’m sure

Personally, I would leave a horse head in his bed some night. Move on.

I agree

In reply to I’m sure

Get out but not before you meet with a reputable HR lawyer. You may have a case against this boss but the company as well. That upper management allows this to happen is unconscienceable, and illegal. How “illegal” is why you need to talk to the lawyer, the sooner the better

Your story makes no sense

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

You were friends with this person for so many years and you didn’t know what he was like before you went to work for him? Did he suddenly change, or is he entirely schizophrenic?

Why do you sound so surprised that being on leave your system access was suspended? What did you expect, that you’d continue to have full privileges?

You let this get under your skin so much that your very health is affected? With all due respect to the younger generation, I’m going to guess you can’t be much older than 25 or so. Haven’t you developed any calluses yet, not to mention a backbone?

While we’re at it, what exactly is “stress leave”? Are you on medication? Are you in some sort of psychiatric health facility? Or are you just staying home and hiding from your problem?

You want to know how to “protect” yourself from him? You have CKS (Clattering Knee Syndrome)? You really have no idea how to handle this situation?

You have a lot more problems than you realize. Sorry if I sound unsympathic, but you’ve relinquished control over your own life and are taking no personal responsibility whatsoever. I’m not saying you’re not in a bad place, but you are doing nothing to help yourself. Grow up, become an adult, find your spine, and thicken your skin. Good luck.

Can happen when you are older too.

In reply to Your story makes no sense

“You let this get under your skin so much that your very health is affected? With all due respect to the younger generation, I’m going to guess you can’t be much older than 25 or so.”

Eh, I was in my early 40’s when I woke up, flat on my back, after a heart cath that found nothing wrong with my heart. The problem was stress. There I was, working hard, working smart, providing value, etc. for a anal retentive boss for whom nothing was ever good enough. (The religious one.) (You’d think after 4 years in the Corps, I’d learn to recognize the type.)

We parted ways after the medical report came back (he was also in charge of the medical plan and reviewed the reports) and my boss was “personally offended” that I had allowed the doctor to submit his claim with medical notes that included “workplace stress”.

Not all bosses/managers/CXO’s/”Keepers of the One True Faith” are bad. Find yourself one who isn’t, and move on.

Sure

In reply to Can happen when you are older too.

Based on clues in the posting, and overwhelming statistical facts, I was just guessing that this particular poster is fairly young.

Of course stress can get to anyone, and at any age. No one’s immune, but my point was that we all have more control over situations and most especially ourselves than we often realize.

I choose to not let stress get to me. I choose, consciously, to keep my perspective on my job and my life and myself so as to avoid the debilitation of chronic stress.

I don’t think that takes any special skill, or character, or training. OK, maybe having a certain level of maturity and the experience of myriad battle scars helps, but frankly all it REALLY requires is making a CONSCIOUS decision, every single day one day after the other, that I’ll be the one in control of my own life and emotions and not anyone else. I still lose my temper, I still get pissed off, I still grumble and get cranky. I’m not a Vulcan. But I don’t allow myself to dwell on anything negative that would have an adverse affect on my mental or physical well-being, something I regard as being entirely self-indulgent. I won’t give myself any excuses for non-performance.

I have a relative who has a chronic cardiac condition, something that is particularly exacerbated by stress. In this case it’s something that can’t be helped in that the individual has a physical, genetic abnormality…not their fault, and nothing that can be done about it. But for the overwhelming majority of the rest of us, who are relatively healthy in mind and body, there are no excuses.

Something about Stockton…

In reply to Sure

Seems to me like I saw “Stockton” on the profile. This is a part of California where if you have a job, you try really hard to keep it.

Nail on the Head

In reply to Something about Stockton…

And try to explain that to people who love to tell me “Gee! With your skills you should have people knocking at your door!!” Realize how many of us were put out of work beginning with the .com failures? Know how many are beating down potential employers door, willing to do anything for a job? Employers don’t come running to you in this area.

Don’t mind Amcol

In reply to Nail on the Head

Unfortunatly, he does not seem to grasp that people can have psychological issues. From his post here and many others, i can easily see that he does not understand much about psychology. Although he seems to be a person who is very sure of himself, is not scare to make a decision and is a “go getter”, he does not seem to understand, or does not want to understand, that not everyone is like that.

Now Amcol, i know, you will want to answer back to my post, and franctly, you can say what ever you want, i stand by my beliefs. You seem to be an angry, impatient and unreasonnable person when it comes to psychological issues. At least, that’s what i read from your posts here. That does not mean you are not a good manager. Just one i would not like to work for.

You’re wrong

In reply to Don’t mind Amcol

I don’t want to answer back to your post. But, nice try on the baiting.

I can see how Amcol thinks and why

In reply to Don’t mind Amcol

He probably is all that you say, though he probably is right with what he says about not letting things worry him and get on with the work in your life. I have one friend that if someone has a problem he would send them to the psych, or just say ‘Get over it’ too.

Actually for myself I try not to let things bother me too much, as its been and gone in most cases, or learn how to deal with it, like going to the boss of the person that is harrassing you and telling them and if nothing gets better, stand up to them or leave and get a job where it is nicer to work.

What to do?

In reply to Don’t mind Amcol

My favorite solution to problems like this comes in both .45 caliber and 9mm. If only it weren’t so messy!
Seriously, though, there are a few avenues open to you. I’ve found that martial arts study can be a great stress reliever. I also have a couple of fairly strenuous hobbies (blacksmithing and caving) that can alleviate stress.
However, that’s only treating the symptoms without curing the disease. For that, there’s really only one choice: separate yourself from this ******. You can go elsewhere, or, if you’re smart, devious and lucky, you can force the boss to go elswhere. One way or another, though, you have to get away from him.

Yes, he does

In reply to Don’t mind Amcol

Amcol, despite the wording he used in his first response, does understand people’s problems. Sure, his response could have been a little “softer”, but we’re responding to these posts during work hours and you don’t always have sufficient time to word everything perfectly. He did reiterate better in his subsequent post.

That being said, I have to agree with amcol. If a problem such as this rears its ugly head in your life, you can’t just lie down and take it.
Life is tough and you have to let some things roll off your back like water off a duck. There are also times you need to defend yourself. The situation we’re discussing involves both of those options… unfortunately, our victim seems to have failed to do either.

I only slightly disagree with amcol in that he said that since the AH boss (we can call him Adam Henry) had been a long-time friend, the poster should have known of his propensity to be everything attributed to him in this forum. I don’t believe that would necessarily be the case, because friends, in general, are different “off duty” than they are at work. Everyone should have learned at some point in life that some people are just plain two-faced. So, we have to fall back on the sage advice — never work for a friend.

You need to tactfully tackle the problem by coming up with a plan on how you intend to solve the problem. In law enforcement we call this a TAP (tactical action plan). Clearly define the problem to yourself — and leave your emotions out of it (I know that’s difficult) so you get the clearest possible definition. Then decide on your options for alleviating or eliminating the problem. Standing up for yourself needs to be at the top of the list. God never intended for you to be a carpet if you get my drift.

As mentioned by several, document each of the problem encounters. I think it was K12Linux that suggested recording conversations. That’s not a bad idea… burn them to CD in case you need them later as proof to the HR folks. I use a Sony digital recorder while on duty just in case someone accuses me of being rude or racist. It’s very easy to turn on/off and records conversation very well through a closed pocket.

I doubt you’d be able to sue in this situation unless you can clearly demonstrate a case of harrassment. Consider the following comment from an attorney” “Harassment, by itself, though, does not automatically give rise to a legal claim for harassment. There are plenty of people who act like jerks, do stupid or insensitive things, or make nasty, inappropriate comments both inside and outside of the workplace. There is no law against simply being a jerk, doing stupid or insensitive things, or making nasty, inappropriate comments, and therefore, there is no legal cause of action to file a claim for this type of “harassment”. When the actions or comments are directed against someone because of his or her protected class status (race, color, gender, national origin, age, religion or handicap), then, depending on the extent of the actions and comments, they may be sufficient to file a claim.”

If you can’t solve the problem by standing up for yourself (and being assertive as one suggested), and HR can’t, or won’t help, then you need to find another place to work.

I don’t buy the post .com bust excuse for not job hunting, sorry. I happen to live and work in the Silicon Valley area (.com bust “ground zero”) and there are jobs. You need to decide which is more important – to continue working with “friends”/nice people, or working in a place where your efforts will be appreciated and your career can continue to grow.

If you don’t want to commute like many of our employees do, then look for a job in Modesto. Try the county. Stanislaus County has a very good CIO and they’re in a new building to boot. They (IT) run primarily Linux, but there are some Windows servers too. Their Courts IT dept. has their own shop and I believe they’re running Win servers Oracle back end but going to SQL Server because it’s cheaper. San Mateo County just lifted it hiring freeze and I know there are a number of slots that need to be filled. San Joaquin County may also have openings, but because of certain practices of IT management there, I can’t suggest it at present.

The ball is squarely in your court. What will you do? Lie down and get walked all over some more, or stand up and “fight” — though given your condition (as you represented) at present it’s probably too late for that since Adam Henry now knows he can intimidate the heck out of you. Leaving for a better employment environment is also an option.

Well said!!

In reply to Don’t mind Amcol

Thank you. I had just decided to ignore him.

Re: Don’t mind Amcol

In reply to Don’t mind Amcol

I actually agree with Amcol. I understand that psychology plays a role, however, that doesn’t change the underlying fact that there are people that are just too scared to take control of their lives. In this case there is a suspension of logic, a refusal to recognize reality, and some level of just plan foolishness. A mature person should have to be told that they’re in a physiologically unhealthy environment. This guy is on so called stress leave and he’s concerned about not being vindictive against his boss. If that’s his perspective he needs to stop complaining, suck it up, and deal with the stress leave the next time it occurs. The fact that a heart attack or a stroke can result from the level of stress he describes seems to be secondary to protecting his so called friend who apparently doesn’t share the same level of loyalty to him.

Conscious Decision

In reply to Sure

Something I try to tell young people in this trade (well, any trade) is to find something besides your 9 to 5 for a hobby.

I think what burns out a lot of us is that we love computers (well, programming, networks, etc) so we get a job in IT. And we let ourselves volunteer for the IT chair of a local charity. And we help fix a “few” friends PC’S.

All well and good, but it is all computers all the time. But then when the drudge hits (are there any IT pure-plays left?) all you have is the computers.

More and more I like to come home, leave the home PC off, go fix a 60 year old Hammond Organ, play native flute, hang out at the Legion hall and watch some NASCAR with the guys, help the wife with some reenactor costumes. Maybe even putz around with some new coffee beans I’ve discovered.

It all helps to maintain the proper perspective, which IMHO is: It’s all just 1’s and 0’s anyway.

oops, I forgot …

In reply to Sure

Write … a lot!

Whoa!

In reply to Sure

People please read the previous post and count how many times the author says “I.” Sorry amcol, but I’m glad that you have such a grip on your life, but it is hardly beneficial to ramble on about your own strengths, when this person has a genuine problem and is asking for help. It seems a bit cruel to push his esteem down even further if it’s even that. There are real situations in the world, where extreme conditions occur that need to be battled. Cases such as these are why we have protection such as workman’s comp, medical protection, and a judicial system. Try to broaden your mind and allow for even the slightest bit of exception the next time you try to “help” someone.

Your story makes no sense either

In reply to Whoa!

Maybe I missed something, but just about everyone who posts about a situation they’d like some input on uses the word “I”. Isn’t that the point?

Here’s one of the things YOU’VE missed, along with the original poster and several others who’ve taken me to task for my contribution to this thread. Anyone who responds to a request for advice or guidance, regardless of whether it’s done here or elsewhere, is speaking from their own perspective and experiences. Especially here on TR, we’re given a minimal amount of information from a nameless faceless person who describes a totally out of context situation. The best any of us can do is offer generalized advice that seems to fit the problem as described.

My “help”, just like your “help”, just like everyone else’s “help”, is offered in response to a request. It isn’t forced on anyone. It isn’t put out proactively. It’s not represented as the one and only one way to handle anything. You don’t like my advice, that’s fine by me. Don’t take it. I just do the best I can to assess situations as they’re presented and offer my perspective. If you find a nugget of wisdom in there, I’m glad. If you think I’m completely wrong, that’s OK…by virtue of the fact you asked for advice I’m required to acknowledge your right to ignore it.

Here’s another important thing you’ve missed. You only need to read a very few of the postings I make in these spaces to know I take a tough love approach. I believe in personal responsibility. I believe that we all have an untapped reservoir of inner strength that is amazingly broad and deep if we only can figure out how to tap into it. I believe most of us are our own worst enemies in that we constrain ourselves unnecessarily by thinking we can only have one certain job, one particular career path, one way of thinking and feeling. I believe that for most of us it takes a cold pail of water in the face before we wake up to the reality we have more control over our own lives and our own situations and our own emotions and our own thoughts than we realize.

I seek only to offer that cold pail of water. You don’t want to get wet, just sidestep it. It’s your life, live it as you will. I’ll do the same.

Can’t call it “tough love”

In reply to Your story makes no sense either

I can’t see much of “tough love” in your commentaries so far. I can see that you’re fairly proud of what you’ve accomplished. It’s also fairly clear from your comments that you think you have the right formula to work, social interactions, and life in general. If “tough love” is your way of saying the original poster shouldn’t get any sympathy from you, fine. But I think all he was asking for was some practical direction, none of which is being offered from your end. I think you should learn to just listen to what the guy has to say, and just help him see what his options are. No need to browbeat the poor guy. If you were in a combat zone as a soldier, would you berate a wounded man just because you thought it’s his fault he got wounded? I’d take a pack of shell dressing and get to work instead, don’t you think? Let’s focus on giving this guy some practical advice, and keep our personal opinions of him to ourselves (by the way, I think he’s an ok guy).

In the middle…

In reply to Can’t call it “tough love”

I noticed that it was posted that our jobs are 9 to 5 and to basically keep work at work. Some of us have problems doing that. After much stress I have learned to leave work at work to some extent – I don’t fix friends computers – mine gets turned on only for what I really need right then (whether to check my bank account or to play a hand of cards). I live on a farm in a rural area, and I spend as much technology-free time there as I can – to balance things out – and it helps. HOWEVER, I feel that my work is a reflection of me. I strive to do the best job possible, and when it is not percieved to be above average, it stresses me and when it is percieved that I have done very well, I am elated – that is just how I am – that will never change. I have been so stressed at times that I have become physically ill. At those times, I have had to say “Wait, let’s dwell on the other aspects of my life that are less stressful”. So I can see everyone’s point – and as usual the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I agree with psbkp

In reply to Can’t call it “tough love”

I think you said pretty much what I was thinking. I don’t know the situation in Stockton, but I can say that the poster seems to have no relief for his/her stress. I think if you take pride in your work you are also going to feel stress when things don’t go erfectly as planned(and they never do). But I think everyone needs to find ways to handle that stress in hopefully a constructive manor. I myself work on cars and volunteer with a Dog rescue(not to mention play with my own pups). Those are huge stress relievers for me. I think the poster needs to find out what hobbies most interest him and use some of that nervous energy in that direction. Something that has nothing to do with your job hopefully. Get your mind off of it.

As for handling your boss there are only certain avenues you can travel. If you have a good HR department I think that is the first place to start. This is what they are here to do. If you repeat the sentiment that you love your job, your company, and the people there but you just seem unable to deal with the stress. try and not sling mud, I’d stay away from claiming your boss is a liar. But standing nose to nose yelling in your face(especially if it’s unwarranted) is totally unacceptable and HR should put a stop to that immediately.

Ultimately this guy has a boss and if he is any sort of manager he is going to look at the way your boss treats his employees and also how much turnover his department experiences and will judge his performance accordingly. I understand that you don’t want to be apart of the turnover statistic that clues this guy in that either he needs to change or the company needs to get someone else in his position. But you have to ask yourself, is your health worth it?

I would hate to move out of my area, but if I was set on the IT field and my current job was affecting my health as yours seems to be doing to you and the area did not have the oppertunities I was looking for, I would have to consider moving to another area. It might be the very change of pace you need!

I do have one question though. You say this guy is your friend? What kind of friend yells at you like that? I find that totally unexceptable. Don’t take the abuse from this person anymore. Make up your mind to put a stop to this! Do what is neccessary for you to work in a less stressful environment.

Good luck,
Mike

Bunch of Nancies

In reply to Can’t call it “tough love”

What happened to the world? When did everyone become a bunch of nancies that just want to listen to each other whine and complain. Discussing a problem is always the first step in assessing your situation and finding ways in resolving it or getting yourself out of it.

The next step is action. Many on this thread have recommended various actions to take such as stand up for yourself, ignore the nut, or just go elsewhere. All reasonable solutions with various degrees of potential success. But feeling sorry for yourself and seeking help not to get rid of the problem but to “protect yourself” is not a solution.

Don’t jump all over a guy that isn’t fazed by clowns like the boss described. What’s everyone scared of? Losing a job you hate? Losing a job that’s destroying your life? Or are you just being hit with the reality that you don’t have much control over your life? Amcol is teaching you how to fish but some of you just want to be fed comfort food.

Great Anology – no need for blame!

In reply to Can’t call it “tough love”

RE: >> “If you were in a combat zone as a soldier, would you berate a wounded man just because you thought it’s his fault he got wounded? I’d take a pack of shell dressing and get to work instead, don’t you think?”

Great Anology code4life !!!

When someone asks for help, work towards helping them work towards a positive resolution. “Tough love” means giving someone advice that will not be easy for them to accept, it does not mean making someone feel guilty for being a victim.

Thank you

In reply to Can’t call it “tough love”

I always wanted to me an okay guy.
Except that I’m a girl.
But thank you anyway for the support.
You hit amcol’s issues right on the proverbial nailhead.

Re: Can’t call it “tough love”

In reply to Can’t call it “tough love”

I think the major issue here is the unwillingness of some (read you) to accept that we are individuals with different approaches and different views on life. Because we don’t handle a situation the way you think we should our opinions are cruel or non-supportive. Sometimes, being supportive means taking the the approach of throwing out the hard facts of reality. As Amcol stated, we only know his side of the story and it’s certainly skewed in the posters favor. Again, as Amcol stated, if you don’t like what he has to offer, you can ignore it. That is your right. However, you and others choose to attack him because of his post which only distract from the “good” work that you are supposedly here to do, and that is to help the original poster (I presume).

Damn right :)

In reply to Your story makes no sense either

You tell ’em Amcol 🙂

no

In reply to Your story makes no sense either

You’re just a negative person that tries to appear to be positive. You don’t know how to help people that really need it and that’s that. You can find as many ways to justify your coldheartedness as you want, but it won’t change it.

Hey, Kevin

In reply to no

You need to back off a little and get a grip, my friend. You’re taking all this WAY too seriously. Don’t be sending me private e-mails at my place of business telling me how “nasty” and “black hearted” I am. You have something to say to me, say it in the light of day. Right here. Where everyone can see it.

You don’t know one single thing about me. You’ve only just joined the TR community and you’ve made a total of five posts, most of them here. You have nothing to go on other than what you’ve read herein but you’ve already got me totally figured out, right? I’ve been participating in this space for quite some time and have offered advice, guidance, and feedback only when it was solicited. Most of my postings have met with a positive response.

Did you make any effort at all to consider anything before you jumped all over me? Is this the way you operate at your job? Talk first, research and think later?

Take the time to read some other posts I’ve made in other threads before you’re so quick to judge. Start by reading everything I’ve written in this post alone, forget about all the others. And not just the ones you’ve taken out of context. ALL of them.

I couldn’t care less what you you think about me, but I will tell you this…when you feel so strongly that you have to take it upon yourself to contact me outside this space and give me a hard time you’d better know what you’re talking about. Your action was offensive, ignorant of the facts, immature, unprofessional, and not much different from the behavior the original poster described on the part of her horrible boss. People who live in glass houses……….

You broaden your mind…

In reply to Whoa!

Stop being so condescending, Kevin. AMCOL’s advice is every bit as valid as anyone else’s. I noticed you had no help to offer. All you did was showcase your judgemental and closed-minded attitude.

And yes this person does have a real problem, it’s called wussitis. And after reading your post it’s obviously contagious…

Re: Whoa!

In reply to Whoa!

I don’t think it’s Amcol’s or anyone elses responsibility to build up or protect another persons self esteem. That’s something inherent in themselves and if it is a problem it’s incumbent upon the individual to seek whatever therapy they need to function in society. We only know one half of the story in this case and all others that get posted here, and in general we all present stories such as this to make ourselves appear in a more favorable light. There is nothing in the original poster’s post that indicated that there is a judicial issue here. Just because his boss is harsh, demanding, or whatever label you wish to place on it doesn’t mean that he is doing something illegal. Additionally, I’m not sure there is a workman’s comp issue or a medical protection issue. The only thing I got out of the post is that the poster allows himself to stay in a postion to take the behavior he described under the guise of I really like my job. Well, there are other jobs to be had, and I’m sure plenty that he may enjoy just as much without the stress causing environment that he describes. All to often we are willing to put the blame on someone else when we have the power within ourselves to resolve an issue. Maybe his boss is an A**. That doesn’t make it criminal or his boss culpable in his stress. We always have choices and if we choose not to exercise them then we get what we get. The answer here is quite simple–move on to what he sees as better work conditions or continue to accept his current work conditions. If he chooses to stay then he shouldn’t complain any further.

Right on Amcol

In reply to Sure

I completely agree. Grow some nads. So many people today can’t handle any kind of confrontation. When my boss has one of those tirades, I look him calmly in the face and ask why he is getting so pissed off (because it’s usually a completely unreasonable tantrum). This will cause one of two things to happen: 1. He will go ballistic and continue his childish tantrum and look like a complete a$$hole, in which case I continue to calmly stare at him until he leaves the room completely frustrated. 2. He isn’t pissed off enough to not think straight and realizes that not only is he not going to intimidate me, but that in the end, his tantrum will make HIM look bad and not effect me in any way.

After all, it is HIS anger and it doesn’t matter whether he thinks it’s justified or not, the way he handles it must be professional. Don’t react to it and eventually he will stop, because when it doesn’t do him any good there is no reason for him to do it.

If he gets physical, then you have every right to defend yourself.

Not that I would want to beat my boss to a pulp, but there are days when he is really abusive and I have to hold my tongue AND my fists. So then I just become my usual passive agressive self and push all the buttons I can to get myself some satisfaction 🙂 You should try it too instead of letting yourself get all stressed out. After all, when people get angry and throw tantrums, it’s sometimes really really funny 🙂

Anyway, just my two cents.

Agree. Just move on

In reply to Can happen when you are older too.

If your HR or CEO can’t help you, then leave the hopeless company and move on. Health is more important. Job can come by but mental health caused by stress is not worth it… there are many other good bosses and companies around.

I had been thru such situation b4. I chose to leave the lousy boss immediately. Many years later, that boss (who retired by now and worked on his own business) came to me (now a senior manager in other company) to beg for business… you never know what would happen in life… up to you of what u want to do with him — forgive his sin or kick his butt 🙂

Cornelius

To some degree

In reply to Your story makes no sense

I agree with you. It’s best to develop a thick layer of skin, however, what people should do, isn’t always what that CAN do. Not without a great deal of effort. It is entirely possible to cripple yourself with your own insecurities. Again, I agree that standing up for one’s self and not letting someone who is clearly a flaming nutcase get under your skin is best, but if this person is already on medical leave for stress, it isn’t likely that such a monumental change can take place any time soon.

Nah

In reply to To some degree

For some people it takes more effort than others. For some people it requires a herculean effort. So?

Just because something is hard doesn’t mean you shouldn’t, or can’t, do it.

What’s worse…having a job where you’re worked to death, have a psycopath for a boss, and end up dribbling porridge down your chin because you’re so stressed out, or taking the time and trouble to make the conscious effort to retain control over yourself? Which is harder?

Again

In reply to Nah

I don’t disagree, I’m just saying that it may be difficult, or even nearly impossible, to make that change in yourself if you are already in an extremely vulnerable state. It’s like having an irrational fear of heights or spiders or anything. It’s possible to overcome such fear, but it’s usually more than a matter of just saying, Okay, I’m not afraid anymore. Whether or not allowing a fear to hold power over you is rational or not doesn’t make it any less real.

Point taken

In reply to Again

I guess you got out of your jury duty pretty quick?

Yep

In reply to Point taken

They settled the case before hand, so, no trial. My week is still very strange, though. Last night, my 7 year old closed a door in our house, it’s a pocket door and it’s on runners, when he closed it, this bizarre and very loud squeaking noise started. There was a bat on the runner and he crushed it’s wing. My son, stepdaughter and I ran out of the house and left my husband to deal with the dying bat. Now I’m afraid we have a nest of bats somewhere in our house. I’m already an insomniac, and worrying about bats flapping around in my bedroom isnt helping.

Holy critter problem, Batman!

In reply to Yep

Get a plastic owl, about one foot high, and put it on your roof eaves. That’ll keep the bats out of the house.

If you have an animal control officer in your town he/she should be able to get rid of any infestation, otherwise an exterminator can take care of the problem pretty easily.

A problem like this could really drive you batty (sorry, but it had to be said).

Ouch

In reply to Yep

That was really REALLY bad. But thanks for the effort.:)

Dying Bat

In reply to Yep

I would carefully clean the area where said crushed bat was. Bats are known to carry rabies and to the best of my knowledge, one of the few mammals on which rabies has little or no effect.

I hope your husbnad wore gloves.

Most bats are also protected as an endangered species. Might want to contact your local animal control agency and turn the corpse over to them so they can do whatever they do with wee dead bats.

Poor Bat!!!!

In reply to Yep

It was just trying to eat all your mosquitoes.

I did feel bad

In reply to Yep

about it. However, I can’t share my house with a bat. And it WAS an accident.

eh, agree about sharing the house …

In reply to Yep

… but I can easier share the yard with rabies vaccinated (and even feral) bats easier than those pesky mosquitoes, midges etc. One of the local non-profits around here has bat boxes just for the purpose.

Better look after them bats

In reply to Yep

That’s a very serious problem, bats. They dribble bat urine and poop onto the floor, which rots out the place and becomes a home for beetles. Bat infestations have made homes uninhabitable and unsalvagable. Better sit outside at dusk and see where they come from, and get an exterminator. (Tom DeLay, bless his heart, may be back in that business soon.)

So far

In reply to Yep

It seems to be an isolated incident. And believe me, I’ve been looking. I’m just going to believe the little thing snuck in all by his lonesome.

West Nile and Bats

In reply to Yep

Bats love eating mosquitoes. Bat proof your house, but don’t kill them. We have people in Ontario who build bat houses to attract them. I would worry more about west nile virus than bats.

James

We didn’t mean to..

In reply to Yep

It was half crushed before we even knew it was there. If we do find anymore, we will attempt to get it out of the house without doing it any harm.

Yes, bats are the good guys!

In reply to Yep

The nocturnal bats that you have eat insects. ONLY insects. LOTS of insects. They don’t eat meat or suck blood or nest in our hair. They do us a huge favor. Think of all the diseases that are spread by insects, and then look yourself in the mirror and repeat: “Bats are our friends.”

They’re very much like spiders. Spiders eat insects. They bite humans only out of desperation if we put them in danger. Yet we still squash them.

Bats have what to us look like erratic flight patterns because their membranous mammal wings are very nimble and controllable compared to feathery bird wings, and because they navigate constantly by sonar, following quick moving prey. That makes them really strange, and to many people strange = scary.

A bat in your house is more scared than you are. You don’t help the situation by chasing him. Open a door or a window and sit down. His sonar will detect the opening very shortly and flee.

The Brookfield Zoo in Chicago has a walk-in bat house. They keep the lights on just enough for us to see, but dim enough for the bats to be active. They swoop around and will come close to you out of curiosity, but they never attack humans deliberately. After a few seconds or a few minutes of getting used to it, it’s as fun and interesting as a walk-in aviary.

Of course you don’t want any kind of animal nesting in your attic or you’ll have to go into the guano business. But you want to evict them kindly.

Bats won’t hurt you unless they have rabies. I’ve never lived anywhere where a case of bat-borne rabies was reported, but here in the D.C. area people get rabies from raccoons and foxes so often that it’s hardly newsworthy.

And yes, in my home state of California we do build bat houses for precisely the reason that they eat insects. You’re more likely to contract some horrible disease from a bug bite than get any kind of real trouble from a bat.

Bat Story

In reply to Yep

My sister woke up to a bat landing on her face one night. It freaked her out and she jumped up screaming. Her husband, annoyed, yelled at her “there’s no bat in here!” Then the bat buzzed HIS head and he jumped up like a little girl and screamed and ran out of the bedroom and outside like he was on fire.

So I looked it up on google and most of the bat removal sites tell you to turn on the lights, open all of your doors and wait for the bat to find its way out. Contrary to most beliefs, bats are not blind. They do prefer the dark so will look for dark places and their radar will lead them out the largest hole they can find.

I proved this worked when another bat buzzed my sister and my neices about a month ago. I opened the front and back door and after it buzzed me (scaring the crap out of me), it flew out the front door and never came back.

Often the bat will be a young bat that has gotten confused and come in through the attic or down your chimney (reported to be a favorite entry point).

So don’t kill it, it won’t hurt you. Bats generally only have one offspring a year and they are the BEST at getting rid of insects. It’s reported that a single bat will eat 3,000 insects in one night and an average sized colony of bats can eat up to a half million a night.

Just some facts to hopefully ease your anxiety over bats 🙂

not to beat a dead bat

In reply to Yep

but just for future reference you might want to try and find the nearest wildlife sancuary or rehab center. My uncle works for one and until he worked there I had no idea they were there. Had a baby bird break it’s wing at my front door. I took it to the humane society were they were not equiped to help the bird and euthanized it to ease it’s suffering. Had I known of the sancuary they would have had a much better chance of helping that poor bird.

I realize you weren’t aware that most of the myth surrounding bats is just non-sense. That and the incident was a mistake, but it might be a good idea to have a wildlife center in your address book. Just a thought.

Mike

If there

In reply to Yep

had been ANY hope of survival, we would have found some sort of solution. The poor thing was nearly dead by the time we figured out what was going on. My husband no longer got it out of the house before it expired.

Geez

In reply to Nah

Such narcissism as yours is why these problems exist that push people into a state where they can’t function. I can see you being the bully on the block growing up.

Narcissism or self respect?

In reply to Geez

I take issue with your characterization of Amcol. He espouses the philosophy of such men as Napoleon Hill and Zig Zigler, both of whom are renowned speakers and authors whose topic is self direction. My take on Amcol is that he is a self-made individual with a proven track record of success and contentment in his sense of self. I think that is what probably what irritates; the idea that he is content with his own life,and able to do his own bidding. Which attitude do you prefer, victim or leader? I suspect he was an Eagle Scout, not a bully as you suggest.

Sorry to disappoint

In reply to Narcissism or self respect?

I was neither a bully nor an Eagle Scout. Just a kid from the housing projects of NYC.

And while I’m not necessarily a Napoleon Hill or Zig Zigler acolyte, I do subscribe to the philosophy of self direction. That’s been my point all along. Haven’t been trying to beat anybody up or fracture anyone’s fragile self-esteem, just trying to get across the notion that you can rationalize from today til tomorrow but you’re still just spinning your wheels. There’s no such thing as a good excuse.

I’m not suggesting every single person in the entire world is the captain of their own ship and the master of their own destiny and if you don’t take charge of your own life you’re some worthless slug. We all have our little psychoses and neuroses, some more than others. You just play the cards you’re dealt and do the best you can. Adversity breeds character, and with that I’m completely out of trite analogies.

One more?

In reply to Sorry to disappoint

“If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants.” – Isaac Newton

Which has as its corollary: No matter where you are in life, you’ve had a lot of help getting there.

(I think this applies to Bill Gates as well as the faceless homeless guy living in a cardboard box under the Town Street Bridge. Counterbalanced by objectivism, it is the starting point of my non-technical writing this past year or so … in case anyone was in doubt, still a work in progress.)

Stay on point

In reply to Sorry to disappoint

Amcol – If you really believe that “Adversity breeds character, and with that I’m completely out of trite analogies.” then you are belittling your own premise. Adversity does breed change. Some people grow from it others (like the OP) get steamrolled by it.

Everyone is built differently and not everyone has the inate ability to handle certain types of stress. Clearly a chnage is required here. As I see it there are only three things that can change.

Reprogram the boss into a human or get him fired from the job. The chances of changing this guys personality are about 0% don’t even try. The chances of getting him out of the job are slim too. If his manager(s) tolerate this kind of behaviour in the workplace then it will not be grounds for dismissal.

Move to another job in the same company. Probably difficult to do if the boss is still there and you are off on sick leave.

Move on to another job and embark on a self improvement project to change the way you deal with this kind of stress in the future.

HA HA HA

In reply to Geez

And wusses like you are the reason people GET bullied 🙂

Documentation is key

In reply to Your story makes no sense

In any situation like this, having documentation is key. Especially anything that can be verified by another source.

As you are already aware of now; documenting in a secure place is also key.

Documentation supports your claims

In reply to Documentation is key

This is the best place to start, otherwise your claims are your word against his unless you have some type of proof. I’d recommend turning on file logging on folders he’s accessing for no reason other than abusing his Admin priviledges. Seems to me you should be able to get others in the IT department to back you up with similar issues with this individual. This would make it much easier for HR to respond quickly to resolve the problem. It seems odd that HR hasn’t already done something.

Vitriolic

In reply to Your story makes no sense

First of all, I am 51 yrs. of age, not a kid. I have a hide thicker than an elephant. Abuse is an insidious thing, especially for the victim. I have taken control of my life. Went to HR twice, they swept it under the rug. Went to Occupational Health, they took me off work, put on some Rx that dropped me to my knees, and then just told me to stay home for a week.

And yes, you ding-dong, I did know that my network/administrative privieleges would be inactivated. What I am stressed about is I didn’t get all of my documentation that proves a lot of his abuse out of my files in time. And because of his devious nature, if I do finally get access, I’m afraid they just won’t be there anymore.

I read another of your complaints, and find that you are quite a bitter person. I don’t need bitter. I need positive advice that let’s me know I’m going in the right direction, doing the right thing.

This man should not manage people. His abusive personality forbades this type of job to him. He abuses the other techs also. I am the only one with the balls (and the only female to boot) that will stand up to him. I love my job there. I just do not want to have to work with this man anymore. I don’t want him creeping up behind me in my cube whispering his nasty little things in my ear where no one can hear.

Your nasty nature makes me wonder if you should be allowed to answer people on this website. Your comments do more damage than good.

Said with a better nature than yours,
StressAndMad

Well, I was wrong

In reply to Vitriolic

About two things.

One, your age. And I must say, I’m actually sad to learn you’re 51, which only makes things worse. If you don’t know what I mean by that, more’s the pity.

Two, that you would understand a response that respected your intelligence. If it makes you feel better to scream and holler and call me names, have at it. Doesn’t solve your problem, though, does it?

I’m sorry you’ve completely misunderstood my advice, and that it was offered good naturedly in the spirit of being helpful. I’m not sorry for anything I said or the way I said it.

Frankly, this last response of your confirms what I initially believed about you. You’re as much the problem as your boss; you do not have “a hide thicker than an elephant” but are only fooling yourself into thinking so; you don’t really know what taking control of your own life really means; and you’re not a very good judge of other peoople.

You throw around a lot of words like “nasty” and “bitter”, in reference both to me and your boss. Take a good hard look in the mirror.

Good luck. You are truly going to need it.

Wrong Forum

In reply to Well, I was wrong

This is an IT forum, not a psychological fix-it site. Amcol, and the rest of you spouting negative replys…Quit it. None of you would be able to handle an out of control mouthy boss screaming in your face any more than the rest of us.

Stop being the stereotypical IT “don’t-know-it-all”, especially spouting psychological knowledge (which you don’t have), and either be supportive or stick it.

I would think that the admin on this forum would have stopped your irreverence by now, no matter how long you’ve been around. I am older than Stressed and Mad, I own my own IT business, and you would not be working for me with that attitude…its not conducive to self-directed or self-managed team work. You need some updated management and leadership education! Check out your state university’s Leadership centers for help.

Signed…Ms. Fed-up with Mental Midgets

Don’t tell me what to think or write…

In reply to Wrong Forum

Amcol’s advice was neither negative OR therapy. It was simply advice. And just because you don’t like or understand his advice doesn’t give you the right to censor it or demean it. Take your own advice, royala and stop your own negative criticisms.

And I am YOUNG and have a great attitude like AMCOLs and he is actually offering good advice. We just don’t have to resort to whining , crying or making excuses as to why our lives are the way they are. My life is the way it is because I made it that way, with every choice I made.

This poster’s life is the way it is because she has made choices. One was to stay in a confrontational employer/employee situation. She could have chosen to leave versus being a stressed out victim. She could have chosen to find a way to work it out with this boss/friend. Either way, enabling her by giving her sympathy does nothing other than to say “I understand, and yes you deserve to be pitied and there’s nothing you can do about it because you’re a weak little victim who can’t figure out how to solve your own problems”

I mean really that’s all this poster is looking for; sympathy. And that’s all you’re giving her with these kinds of posts.

So fine, I sympathize, does that help her? Yes, she SHOULD feel stressed out by this: does that help her too?

She should really get psychological help. Does that help? It’s really sad that your boss is such an a$$hole. It’s too bad. Really it is. I don’t know how you put up with that. Oh wait, you don’t put up with it. You can’t find a solution so you cry to his boss, to us, to anyone that will listen, so that you can feel right and thereby vindicate yourself.

And in the meantime, you’re on “stress leave”, or disablility, whatever you want to call it. You feel ill and angry.

So what are you going to do? Clearly what you’re doing now isn’t working for you.

Maybe you could CONSIDER some of the advice given here. Believe it or not, AMCOL, myself and many others have offered some good coaching. Granted, it may not have been offered in the soothing therapist tone that you are used to hearing, but it has been offered with good faith. All you have to do is be willing to take some of the advice. Or keep doing what you’re doing. That’s been working great so far.

rah rah!

In reply to Don’t tell me what to think or write…

Are you like Amcol’s cheerleader? Perhaps you should walk over to a mirror and repeat after me, “I’m good enough, I’m smart enough, and dog gonnit, people like me!” 😉

I partially agree with several of the things Amcol said. But he has an abrasive manor of speaking and can sound quite conceded and pompous at times. I mean according to his posts he’s mastered the worlds of IT, Mental Health, and law. I think the next step for that up and comer is influence and public speaking.

I’m speaking tongue in cheek of course, but seriously it’s not that his message is bad. Its just that it’s phrased poorly.

JMO,
Mike

Mental Midgets

In reply to Wrong Forum

How appropriate a term.
I was actually beginning to get a kick out of his rantings. All that was missing was my boss’ purple face. round bugged out eyes, and waving arms.
The screaming came shortly thereafter.

What I would like Amcol to know, is that I did fight for myself. I tried to do it the right way, without losing myself in the whole thing. I loved my work there. I loved the people I worked with. The jerk was the only problem. We were in the middle of a very difficult database conversion, that had not gone right from the beginning. I was the only person users had to come to. I took my commitment to this project seriously, and that included the users. I didn’t want to let them down. Leaving them would leave them in a completely unsupported position.
And the jerk found out where I went that day, ran up and filed things with HR, and I was fired 35 seconds after HR signed my stress leave approval.
I agree, leaving was about my only option if I couldn’t get HR to work with me. I had started putting out resumes’, calling contacts, putting out feelers — you know the routine — before this happened. But I had kind of hoped I would not be stressed and medicated, and that I would already have another job waiting.

And I do agree with Amcol as far as making sure you can do what you can to stand up for yourself. Thick hides are not easy to grow. Friends can fool you. Trust can betray you. That doesn’t make me weak or him right.

And here I am, unemployed, and he’s still working.

All-in-all, the advice in this thread has been helpful, insightful, often humorous (there are a few suggestions I wish . . . . . ) But above all the support has been there. I wasn’t looking for an answer or even a salve. I was looking to see if I was justified in how I was looking at the situation, or if I was missing something.

Further research has shown me that IT is one of the higher stress-related environments to work in. A fact I have seen often. But that does not absolve a manager of verbal abuse. It was not harassment. It was verbal abuse. Verbal abuse, unlike physical abuse, is insidious. It is not obvious at first. It gradually undermines the victim until they are so unsure of themselves they begin to believe what the abuser is saying (usually words like worthless and other negatives.) They become dependent on the abuser for approval. Once I recongized it for what it was (with the help of others who were tired of hearing it), and as I became more aware of my situation, I began to see him treat the other male techs abusively to some degree, I tried to take it to HR. He was written up for something related to what happened that day that sent me up there. But the abuse was completely ignored. I knew I would have to document to prove my case, and I did. But I waited too long, and it royally bit me in the butt.

I came out of there with a wealth of new knowledge and skills. I will not look on it as a wasted year and a half.

Good for you

In reply to Mental Midgets

I know you don’t care what I have to say, but I’ll say it anyway.

I am truly glad you’ve emerged from this experience with strength. From this last post you appear to have come to terms with your situation and won’t let it have a negative impact on you. That’s great.

I’m sorry if my postings have not been helpful but for what it’s worth I would like you to know that at no time was I saying anything in a mean spirited way, despite the fact that you and others were convinced I was. I have no interest in making anyone feel bad. I get no joy from schadenfreude, as many others may and as I’ve been accused of herein.

I’ve had the same experiences as you, as I detailed in another post, and as such felt a kinship with you. That’s why I posted to begin with…based on the limited information you gave us, I knew from personal experience you were in trouble. If I chose the wrong way to express myself in order for you to profit from my words, I apologize.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck in the future.

Sparking a debate?

In reply to Good for you

Well, if you intended to make people think and respond, you certainly did that…but you came across as callous and indifferent, not encouraging…glad to see you’re elaborating on that.

Reality Bites

In reply to Good for you

It’s been a helluva two weeks. Quite a rollercoaster ride. Just when you think the ride is over, you hit a bump and lose something else over the side. I lost friends, my job, the chance to be on the program I spent the last year working so hard on (and which started today, my iPAQ was so cruel as to remind me this morning.)

Thank you for trying. You did place quite a few tokens for thought up in the queue for later processing.

Sorry to hear that… sorta

In reply to Mental Midgets

Well I’m sorry things ended in a termination, but at the same time I think you’ll look back on this as the best thing that could have happened to you.

If you don’t mind my asking, could you clarify why you were let go? How does one get fired supporting their users?

It sounds like your ex-overlord was wise to office politics and could since a brewing situation. Although in all actuality it doesn’t make much since to fire you if HR was unwilling to step in and he since you’re wanting to get out. now they are on the hook for unemployment. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if they tried to fight you on it. Don’t worry if your sorry is even half true, you should get it dispite their actions. The only thing I can think of as to why they might preemptively fire you is to tarish a lawsuit. Although in my opinion it only strengthens your case and moreso your resolve to take legal action.

Lawsuits are very long drawn out ventures. I think too many people file them when upset. Once things have calmed down I think it’s always wise to step back and look at what you(not just you, all of us) could have done differently to create a better outcome. It’s at times like this that you can think clearly and weigh the evidense you have to file such a law suit.

Good luck with your next venture,
Mike

Very

In reply to Vitriolic

Yes, this guy is a very negative person, but obviously he is so far down that path that most likely will stay that way the rest of his life. There is a difference between being self directive and being completely full of yourself. He is great at pushing others down to make himself feel better than everyone else. That isn’t empowerment, it is once again narcissism.

Off Base

In reply to Your story makes no sense

Sorry, amcol, you’re way off base. We had a manager here that was the same way. Thankfully, he’s left for a different position in a different company. Let him be somebody else’s problem. Now, to get to the original problem. This guy HAS to have a boss. Even though you have been to HR a couple of times, it’s time to get tough. Threaten a harassment suit. I assume that your stress leave is directly related to the problems with your manager. Any lawyer would GLADLY take on your case (should it come to that), even without the original documentation. Start recreating the documentation as best as you can, and add to it as things happen in the here and the now. If it should progress to an actual lawsuit, I’m sure you’ll find many people that will come out of their shells and join you in your quest to rid the company of this man.

Two things

In reply to Your story makes no sense

1. Either Quit and go somewhere else and stop WHINING about your situation. If you are on stress leave, why are you on stress leave? Should not the OFFENDER be the one on leave instead of the victim?

2. or Get up off your butt and work the legal options, corporate policy options, and hr options.
If this person is as UNRULY as you say, a simple recorder, or a cellphone left dialed into “a listener” should suffice as proof of the “unwanted” behavior.

Those are the only two choices I see.
Live with it as is or quit this job..
or
FIX the problem.

You did post in a technical forum. If you are a techie, workd it out with your troublshooting skills. Read the manuals on behavior, contact othes, take corrective action.

Beat me to the punch

In reply to Your story makes no sense

While I wish our stressed out comrade-in-arms the best I am blown away by this complete lack of intestinal fortitude. Whatever you ultimately decide to do (fight or flight) you need to take charge and get on with changing the situation.

And amcol, when you find out exactly what “stress leave” is please let me know. 😀

Indeed

In reply to Beat me to the punch

This thread has been one of the weirdest I’ve ever participated in on TR.

What blows me away is how polarized the responses have been. There are those who are totally sympathetic to the original poster and are taking a pat-her-on-the-head, there there everything will be all right, we understand you have a big bad boss approach.

Before I get jumped on all over again, BTW, I don’t mean that last comment to be unsympathetic. There are plenty of bad bosses out there and this poster has (had) one of the worst.

Then there’s the grow a set, don’t let the big bad bully get you, where’s your backbone contingent. The diametric opposite.

So here I am in the middle and for some reason what I’ve been saying keeps getting misunderstood. I’m sympathetic to the poster in that she had a horrible boss and a horrible situation that unfortunately for her ended horribly. However…she also didn’t do very much to help herself. I’m seeing both sides, and it IS possible to express understanding for the bad stuff while at the same time advising on correcting some of the mistakes that were made.

But that’s just MHO, for whatever it’s worth.

I’m also astonished at the number of people who’ve contacted me directly about this. Calm down, folks…we’re not solving world peace here.

To your point, yeah…I don’t know what stress leave is, and I don’t know anyone who’s ever been on such a thing. On the basis of the outpouring of emotional responses herein I canvassed about a half dozen of my management friends and colleagues, each one at a different company and representing both the public and private sector. Every single one of them said they’d never heard of anyone doing such a thing, not because they don’t know anyone (including themselves) who’s completely stressed but because it would be a stigmatizing event. That may not be fair but it is reality.

Which has been my message all along…you can’t shape reality to your own perception. The world works the way it does, not the way we’d like it to. Adapt or die.

Stress Leave

In reply to Indeed

I have never had anyone I work with directly take stress leave, but I do know a few acquaintences who have taken it.

It is really short term disability due to stress. I have never seen someone take it, and recover while staying at the same job. Having to take time off for stress means you aren’t in the right job, or the right company or with the right boss, or all of the above. This is not a personal slight. It should be a big warning sign.

The one person I saw go through stress leave and come out better on the other side, tried first to go to part time – didn’t resolve anything because even at part time she was still overloaded with work and had the same boss, same issues. She ended up taking a lower level job at a different company where her experience gave her lots of freedom and autonomy which is what she needed. She went from a manager of a business department back to a worker bee with lots of flexibility.

Its worked out well for her.

I do understand Amcol’s point – if you are in a bad situation and recognize that, you have a choice. It may not be a good choice, but you have a choice – to stay and try and resolve, or to go.

James

Stress leave is..

In reply to Indeed

When my sister was working at a supermarket, two gals in the bakery department went on stress leave. What could be stressful in a Bakery? People bake to relax, you know.

One was being harrassed by her boss, the other saw a way to get time off with pay. The “copy cat” blabbed that she was working the system. The other got painted with the same brush, even though she didn’t say anything. This let her boss continue the abuse, until he was caught by his boss phyically intimidating her. He got transferred (not fired), and she got to breathe again.

Taping and keeping copies off site is the best passive course of action. Setting up a hidden video recorder in her office is also good, especially if it picks up his whispering in her ear. There are “spy” stores that have video reccorder clocks and teddy bears to record care givers.

An active response is to set the guy up with the help of another person. There is also the Labor Department, but that can take awhile. And I’m not sure if you can complain anonymously.

He has gone to be a world-class idiot to yell at a women “nose to nose” (invading her space) in the current overly politically correct time. He is setting himself up to get sued by a Secretary who can prove that his behavior makes a hostile workplace. This secretary (or admin assistant, let’s be PC here) does not have to be the one yelled at, just in the area that yelling is carried out.

Good luck, sister. Take action because the law is on your side.

Agree with you on your observations

In reply to Indeed

amcol,

I agree with you on your observations, this is indeed a rather odd thread, and the opinions have been quite polarizing. I lurk here alot, don’t post often, but I find this thread interesting for the points you mentioned.

I also felt “the need” to post here because I can relate to the issue. I could tell stories from employers in my lifetime that people would simply not believe, or would think that I am crazy, because the stories would seem too bizarre to be true. But they are true, because I lived them.

I addressed you directly in this because I was curious about your remarks, “I canvassed about a half dozen of my management friends and colleagues, … they’d never heard of anyone doing such a …”

From the sounds of that, I take it to mean they work for larger companies? The really bizarre stories of my career typically happened from the smallest companies I worked for. The “mom and pop” companies seemed to get away with things that in some cases were illegal, and at the least, downright bizarre.

I guess the biggest point I am trying to make here, is that too many people are trying to dismiss things because they can’t believe the story is true. I don’t think that is healthy. I am not directing these comments specifically at you, just in general to some of the overall comments being made by many posters.

I have often been asked for advice in a problem, and I am thinking to myself, how in the world did this person get into this situation, geez, that is weird. But I put my doubt aside, and think how I would handle the situation.

In all cases of the bizarre companies I have personally experienced, I did not work for them very long.

The two lessons I have learned from all of this, first, I am never going to work for a “mom and pop” company, unless I own it myself 😉
and second, when you are in this situation you need to focus all your energy on finding another job!

FWIW. Peace.

Reply To: Bi-Polar OCD Boss

In reply to Agree with you on your observations

The colleagues I canvassed work for GE, an international manfucturing company, an insurance company, a Federal government agency of rather inconsequential size, a small local manufacturer, another Federal agency of rather massive size, and Simon & Schuster. I didn’t work it out this way on purpose but they represent a pretty good cross-section of business in terms of size, location, and type. BTW, their combined experience is the equivalent of more than 200 years.

In addition, I personally have worked for two people similar in description to the original poster’s boss. In one case I spent eight years working for an abusive alcoholic, and in the other I worked five years for a person with a volcanic temper who ultimately was taken from our office on a stretcher having literally screamed himself into a heart attack.

It is because of my own experience and my access to a rather vast professional network that I felt qualified to offer a response to this post.

I don’t completely believe the original poster’s story, but I don’t think I’ve been dismissive of her either. I agree with you…that wouldn’t have been a healthy response, nor would it have been either respectful or of any value (professional or otherwise).

Open Your Eyes

In reply to Your story makes no sense

You do sound unsympathetic…and naive…and you are EXACTLY the reason she’s in the situation she’s in.

The classic abuser masquerades as your best friend, often taking a protective, “big brother” or “fatherly” role, until he has control over some portion of your life – whether in a relationship or in the workplace.

To his peers and superiors, he demonstrates this “fatherly” attitude about his subordinates. He expresses dismay that they feel mistreated, and simply doesn’t understand why someone would feel that way about him. The isolation tactics – “I’m the only friend you have here” – are classic as well.

Shame on YOU for not listening to what she has to say, because it’s execs who turn a blind eye to this behavior that keep people in this situation “stuck.” How did you get to your position without knowing enough about sociology and psychology to recognize this in her description?

I know…because after repeated attempts to discuss my own, amazingly similar, situation with HR – and I am not the only one – I’ve come to realize that my boss is entrenched, and my only choice is to get out of the company. Even though my own skills have repeatedly matched other positions in the company, my boss has made it known to other managers that “I belong to him.”

StressedAndMad, you do have options. Regroup and start looking around – aggressively. And, here’s the biggest thing – all bullies are really cowards inside. Stand up to him. Get right back in his face, drop your voice an octave, and tell him exactly what the facts are on whatever situation he chooses to use as a stick against you. Keep doing this until he learns to back off or until you find something else to do. He knows he can push you around, and so he does. When you get back – if you decide to go back – take a deep breath, plant your feet firmly, look him straight in the eye, and let him know you’ve figured him out. He’s just a bully who thinks you’re the victim of the week. And most of all – remember that this man is NOT your friend, so don’t let former fondness for him personalize his attacks.

As for you, amcol – I’ve had bosses who yell before, but they were just hotheads. No big deal. Some you yell back at, some you just let blow off the steam. I’ve gone toe to toe with CEO’s in front of a room full of my superiors to make sure an issue is taken care of the right way. It earned me respect. It made me strong. Then I came to work for my present boss…and every day he chips away a little more of my confidence in my own judgement and abilities. There ARE men – and women – who use their position to torture other people, and your attitude enables them to continue it. Wake up.

What the he||?

In reply to Open Your Eyes

Why does everyone hate you so much AMCOL? 🙂 LOL

Must be a chick thing… 🙂

Yeah, well

In reply to What the he||?

To be honest, I’m actually a little flattered that there’s been such a reaction to my postings. Whether you agree with me or not, what’s been going on here is exactly the purpose of forums such as these…to promote dialogue such that everyone can learn something.

I don’t post to generate reaction. As a matter of fact, I don’t really care if people respond to my posts or not. I’m happy to engage in productive interaction conducted in a professional fashion but my motivation for contributing is simply to respond to the original poster in such a way as to be helpful.

It’s unfortunate that there are those who choose to ignore the commonly accepted rules of decorum and attempt to reduce things to a gutter level. I won’t respond to vulgarities or personal attacks. Take whatever position you want and explain it in cogent, intelligent, professional terms and we can have an interesting and ultimately valuable discourse.

I’ll tell you one thing I do regret…somehow, the posts I’ve made have become more of the issue than the situation the original poster came here to discuss. I’m not the issue or the main focus of this thread. The poor woman who came to us, the professional community, for advice on a situation she couldn’t handle and which ultimately ended very badly for her has not, I fear, gotten what she sought. For my role in making that happen I’m sorry, and everyone else who’s contributed to that owes her an apology as well.

Debate

In reply to Yeah, well

Amcol!! You generated a debate. We all debated the issue and gave our feelings and opinions. You did nothing more or less.

After having just come out of a war zone, where every move was verbally attacked, you will have to admit you came on in attack-mode. I had a mental picture of you standing there, poking your finger over and over in my chestbone, to emphasize your points.

And I did get what I came for. Perspective. Through the eyes, of victims, administrators, professionals, and from what I can see might be current or future abusers themselves. If not just genuine bullies.

I’m sorry you were personally attacked in this. It certainly was not my purpose in starting this thread. As I said in another thread, I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t delusional or something. Which is also a marker of how mixed up this creep has me. My poor boyfriend barked a request at me yesterday and was completely astounded at my response. Um — yes, I was embarrassed at my reaction, which you don’t need to know!!

As another poster mentioned, he was an old trusted friend. He was in the position of mentor. He was my new boss and teaching me my job. I had no reason to doubt him, or fear him. He used his knowledge of my past, his knowledge of me as a friend, and his position to perform his abuse. That is unforgivable. And yes, I firmly believe he knew what he was doing. Why? I wasn’t allowed to leave his little “talks” until he had made me cry. Then he was all happy and bubbly and would usher me out of his office. He’s a real piece of work. Oh, and he quotes Hitler I recently learned from going to one of his little websites. And he’s half Jewish.

And I am the second woman he has gotten fired from the company because of his actions. And he is now living with her. And she did everything for him to get him. So, without me there, he has a new victim. My heart goes out to her, she has no idea what’s coming.

I agree, this is a very strange thread for a tech site, but as I said earlier, IT is fraught with abuse and stress. I really admire those with the thick hides, who have the extra energy it takes to maintain the “force field”. I do to some degree. But this time it let me down.

I am still interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts, although I realize this thread will talk itself out.

OK, good

In reply to Debate

Thanks. We appear to have reached, to whatever extent possible, a common ground. Excellent.

I have a bit of a rethinking of my position, if you’re interested. You’ve now provided us with much more information which changes things for me.

My original reaction was based in part to your characterization of YFHB (Your Former Horrible Boss) as bi-polar and OCD. I’ve found that too many people throw around too many official psychological and medical terms as a way of explaining something they don’t like or can’t control. It’s the same thought process for me when I hear parents say that little Johnny and Janey can’t sit still and therefore have ADHD…get the Ritalin, quick! How come we all ended up relatively normal without benefit of chemical intervention?

Based on the more complete story you’ve now presented, I have to say you’ve been right all along…YFHB is nuts. I still can’t figure out how you could have been friends with him for so long and only found his nutty behavior exhibited after you started working for him, but so what. The important thing is that you do appear to have been working for a serial abuser, and it’s a shame you ended up on the short end of the stick while YFHB is still employed. Take comfort in thinking what goes around comes around…YFHB will get his in the end.

This isn’t a strange thread for this site, BTW. It’s played out strangely, but it’s entirely appropriate to talk about management and career issues. Stay on TR and post more stuff. We’ll have a more friendly discourse next time.

Chick Thing

In reply to What the he||?

And it’s guys who think like you . . . . .

Yeah, yeah

In reply to What the he||?

you guys are all alike…we chicks are all alike…now there’s a consensus builder – lol…

amcol, your a piece of s**t

In reply to Your story makes no sense

You are a worthless piece of crap, and if I ever meet you, I will put YOU on disability leave.

Don’t everybody come back and say I’m being too harsh on this worthless excuse for a human being. He fully deserves it, and he’s getting what he’s dishing out.

When you run out of logic, resort to violence

In reply to amcol, your a piece of s**t

Threats of bodily harm, thats real mature.

Do you know in Canada, you could be charged with a crime?

Seriously, if you want to argue his point of view in an intellectual or logical perspective, feel free. If all you can muster is violence, you win no one to your point of view.

James

I’m not in Canada

In reply to When you run out of logic, resort to violence

I could care less what they do in Canada. I don’t live in Canada and you couldn’t pay me to live there. I read the other day that only 69% of residents own a vehicle in Canada (as opposed to 101% in the U.S.), because the government taxes them to death. If it is true, the reason you can’t say something like that is because of the lack of freedom of speech. What kind of place is that to live?

This jerk is beyond reasoning, and needs some negative reinforcement. He doesn’t understand logic.

You can try to reason with him all you want, but your breath will be wasted. He clearly has no desire to change, and is even more a threat to society than you think I am. Why wouldn’t he be charged with a crime in Cananda for the extremely mean things he said and continues to say? What he is saying certainly qualifies as hatred. His anger is undoubtedly an attack on StressedandMad who definitely needed defending because StressedandMad is not strong enough to stand up to slime like amcol, and StressedandMad’s bi-polar OCD boss.

I said what I said because no one else did, and somebody needed to. I had no intention of winning anyone to my side. My intention was to let this moron know that he can’t run roughshod over StressedandMad without someone coming to his/her aid, and also to let StressedandMad know I am willing to defend him/her.

You can’t argue from an “intellectual and logical perspective” with a madman.

There is a time for peace, and a time for war.

??

In reply to I’m not in Canada

You don’t want to live in Canada due to some perception of free speech limitations, yet you want to gun me down for exercising my right of free speech. That’s perfectly clear…not to me, but that’s perfectly clear.

What exactly is your problem with me? Not that I think you’re interested but every single thing you’ve written about me is completely incorrect. You’ve made some astonishing jumps to conclusions that are not only erroneous but are based on…I don’t frankly have a clue what they’re based on.

You want to talk about this like a professional, toning down the violent and ridiculous rhetoric, let’s get it on. Otherwise don’t waste our time.

PapaWhiskey

In reply to ??

I think PapaWhiskey needs another drink. How about some Canadian Rye?

Naaah we save the good stuff

In reply to PapaWhiskey

For our friends.

James

Rational Debate Anyone???

In reply to I’m not in Canada

While I may not agree with everything amcol says, isn’t problem solving about a rational debate from different points of view?
I did say rational debate.

RE: >> also to let StressedandMad know I am willing to defend him/her.

OK, that’s just what this person needs, another bi-polar person to deal with.

RE: >> You can’t argue from an “intellectual and logical perspective” with a madman.

If the person is deemed to be a madman, you feel it necessary to bring yourself to their level?

If you really want to help StressedandMad focus on giving advice to StressedandMad, not attacking other people yourself. That is exactly the kind of thing StressedandMad is stressed and mad about!

RANT

In reply to I’m not in Canada

I couldn’t help be reminded of that old joke – 90% of statistics are made up.

I don’t know whether you read that stat in a credible magazine, but I can tell you this, from working in the automotive industry. We have cars here, lots of them. Like New York city, people in major metropolitan areas sometimes don’t have cars, but that has nothing to do with the taxation. It has to do with the hassles of parking in a big city, the much higher costs of insurance, and the availability of good mass transit. If it were taxes, then people in smaller towns wouldn’t own cars, and thats clearly not the case.

We have all kinds of freedom of speech. What we cannot legally do is incite hatred with the intent of causing violence. Thats something you appeared to be doing. We can and do criticize the government to our hearts content. I don’t care if you don’t want to live here, especially if you are willing to believe just about any negative myth. Thats called xenophobia.

Amcol is no madman. He may be from a different era. And while I have sympathy for what Stressed is going through, ultimately I agree with Amcol’s core message – it is up to Stressed to change the situation, either by taking appropriate legal action or leaving. Staying and doing nothing is not helping anyone.

Amcol was offering advise. I am sure that if Stressed was someone close to Amcol, he would offer the same advice. I know it was blunt, and perhaps the tone was unsympathetic, but it was in Stressed’s best interest to hear it.

I’ve worked in office similar to what Stressed is going through, but early in my career. I recognise now I should have just left the company and found something else.

James

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

In reply to amcol, your a piece of s**t

Holy crap! That is too funny? What exactly prompted this response?

Talk about being worthless. You’re ridiculous 🙂

Now there’s stress

In reply to amcol, your a piece of s**t

I think this is it everybody – this sounds just
like the mean boss the first poster was
complaining about. Verbal harrassment, physical
threats, overreacting in a threatening manner…

I have to agree

In reply to Your story makes no sense

This is an opportunity to grow. Life in the IT arena is tough, tougher than most plumbers, electricians and mechanics can appreciate. We MUST work with people, both inside our organizations and customers. People skills are crucial to success and those who become adept at handling togh customers ultimately win the crown. Anyone can do the job when all is smooth sailing in the human dept, the tough situations separate the adults from the children. Your boss is clearly tough, he may not be right or particularly good but he has a spine and the ability to manouver through the landmines of conflicting personalities and interests. Your employer will support him over you because of this. Learn from it, go to work anyway and develop a tough in your face attitude. In the end you may beat him, but you surely won’t get anywhere by hiding from situations like this. Employers and customers have no use for people who cannot handle friction. If you are not on site doing the job you have lost the battle, and someone else will surely get the job.

Hey, go easy on him too!

In reply to I have to agree

I’m not a pupil in AmCol’s school of thought because I’m a touchie-feelie Californian. We can sit around for a whole four-day weekend deconstructing scenarios like this, being supportive. When the Eagles recorded “Get Over It” I felt like burning my copy of “Hotel California” in protest.

Still he serves a purpose and plays a role here. It is possible to be too touchie-feelie. (I hope none of my California friends are reading this.) At some point you do simply have to “suck it up” and find a way to get on with life.

Nonetheless it would do AmCol well to remember where the Generation Gap in the 1960s came from. We were fed up to death with our elders taking that counter-emotional “suck it up” attitude.

This is America. Everything is great. If you’re not getting along you just need another beer. If you’re not happy with your job maybe you should consider how much you’d like unemployment. Shut up, take a cigarette break to calm your nerves, slug down some caffeine to improve your mood, and get to work or I’ll slap you down because there ain’t no laws against it yet. Especially if you’re not a white male adult.

That “suck it up and leave it alone” attitude got us world leaders who believed that the Holocaust and/or Hiroshima were good things. We had a right to be sick of it and to reject our male elders en masse. It’s going to take more than one single hippie out of an entire generation in the White House for us to believe that it’s time to get back on our heads and return to behaviorism, patriarchy, guns for fun, and our fathers’ favorite drugs.

Good response

In reply to Hey, go easy on him too!

I like reading your responses too DC Guy. However I usually disagree with everything you say. Like this time. Yes we did go through the “like it or lump it” era in america and now we’re in the exact opposite era where everyone is “politically correct” and we’re all worried about hurting each other’s feelings. And yes, you californians ARE all a bunch of new age touchy feely freaks 🙂

I say it’s time that more people act with a little responsibility. And by that, I mean start acting like you are a part of the life you’re living. Like you play a part in how it’s going.

Instead of “having our feelings hurt” by some douchebag boss who would probably curl up in the fetal position if their bluff was finally called.

The fact is, a little balance would probably go a long way. I too am like amcol. I hate to see people whine and complain. I give them credit for being intelligent people who can actually solve situations like this instead of crying to someone on a message board.

This woman could change this situation if she really wanted to. But the sad fact is that she is getting something satisfying for herself by continuing to be the victim in this. Otherwise, why would she continue to put up with it?

Just something to think about.

Now we’re getting somewhere

In reply to Good response

The previous two posts are exactly on point.

DC Guy…I’m not advocating suck it up and go back to work. Never have been. My position in this is actually quite the opposite. The original poster was unable to deal with her situation and as a result became paralyzed in her victim-hood. Her specific request was for advice on how to “protect herself” from this horrible boss. All this said to me that she had accepted a reality she need not have accepted, that this is the way her professional life was and that was that. My advice was to understand she had more control over the situation than she thought by looking to internal strengths she probably didn’t even know she possessed. This mirrors my belief system and reflects the way I conduct myself, the way I manage my staff, and how I raised my children.

If I thought she should just suck it up I would have given her the same “there, there” approach I’ve taken other posters to task over.

Keyguy13…I’m in complete agreement with everything you wrote. It’s all about personal responsibility and taking control of one’s own life. The original poster CAN change her situation, and as you correctly point out she has to want to. At the risk of once again being accused of practicing psychiatry without a license, I believe she either doesn’t WANT to change things or doesn’t realize she CAN change things. I hope it’s the latter, because in the former case we’d have to believe she’s a professional victim and that’s never a good thing.

Thanks to both of you for excellent posts.

The Other Side of the Coin…

In reply to Your story makes no sense

I had an employee once who had some problems. One of her worst problems was the fact that she never took responsibility for her problems. It was always someone else’s fault. Never, ever did she admit that she was wrong. She was abusive to her co-workers and I was astonished at how she would talk to me, her boss. Every time I talked to her about her issues, she would act like I was being abusive. So I would make every effort to be calm, to offer support, and to ask her what I could do to help her resolve a particular issue. She would just stand up and yell at me.

At some point, I had to make a decision. She was bringing down morale so bad that the rest of the team she was working with was contentious and not producing much. So, I told personnel that she just couldn’t work in this group any more. I didn’t care if they fired her or moved her somewhere else. Actually, I thought she might be good at another job, but because she couldn’t cope with stress, she just wasn’t right for the job she had. They moved her somewhere else and the team immediately got better. They produced more without her than with her.

Of course, since we work for government, she was able to file an appeal. I won. I have no doubt that she thinks I was abusive to her and that HR just ignored her cries for help, but that just isn’t the case. The appeal committee was made up of one supervisor and two others who are at a lower level than me. You’d think they would have been sympathetic to her. But they upheld the action.

My point is, how do we know whether StressedAndMad is giving us the real scoop. Maybe she is the abuser and is just looking for sympathy. I don’t know that to be true, I just think that we really don’t know the whole story, so I don’t understand why everyone is getting so passionate in their responses, when we don’t really know for sure what is going on.

And I have read several of Amcol’s posts here. Geez I just can’t see why people have such hostility toward him. I think he gives good advice, which may not be the right move for everyone in every situation, but something to consider. He sounds like a self-confident and compassionate person to me, but then all I know about him is what I read here, too.

Someone made a reference to a wounded soldier and said that Amcol would just stand there and yell at the soldier for getting shot, while he should be pulling out the bandages and helping. Well, I don’t think Amcol would just stand there and yell. I think Amcol would help that soldier get out of the line of fire first, THEN if bandages are required, work on that. The way some of these overly-simplistic and sympathetic posts have been, they’d pull out the bandages and then both the soldier and the medic would get blown to bits. Sometimes you have to yell at the soldier to get on his feet and get out of danger, even though he’s wounded. You can’t just lay there and keep getting shot at. That, to me, is what Amcol was doing.

The whole soldier thing is probably a bad anaology anyway, but my former employee is much better today than she was when she worked in this unit. She would never have left on her own because she would never have admitted that she couldn’t handle the job. But, I see her now and she is much happier and in a job that is much more comfortable. She still hates me, and that’s o.k. She’ll never admit it, but I did the best thing that I could do for her and for the team.

Wow

In reply to The Other Side of the Coin…

Thanks. Of all the responses to all the posts I’ve ever made on TR, yours comes the closest to fully understanding everything I was talking about. And everything you say about me is absolutely true. Very insightful…I’m quite impressed with your analytical ability.

You’ve not read this entire thread (it’s gotten somewhat long) but it develops that unfortunately the original poster did lose her job. She was definitely not the abuser, she was the abusee. And she wasn’t simply seeking a sympathetic ear…she was in fact working for a whacko.

I appreciate the supportive tenor of your post, but far more importantly I appreciate your contribution to this space. I post comments here in an effort to add to the body of knowledge and represent my profession in the best possible way, hopefully setting a positive example for those with less experience than I have. I sense you do the same. Please continue to do so.

Welcome

In reply to Wow

I actually don’t post too often because usually someone has already said what I would say and it wouldn’t help very much to repeat it. Interesting to read others’ opinions, though. And shoot, you’ve been beat to a pulp on here, and I just don’t know why. That whiskey guy and that Kevin guy are nuts.

I read quite a bit of this thread, but skipped some above this post, I did see some additional information that looked like it was more information, but still, we only have one side of the story. Perhaps she was fired because she didn’t do the job very good and she is just not willing to admit that to herself, can only think of it as her being the victim. Before I get a bunch of nasty posts here, I’m not saying that is what is happening at all. It’s not hard for me to imagine that what she has said is true. But it’s not hard for me to imagine someone coming to this forum to get support, when what they really need is a good swift kick in the pants (figuratively speaking, Mr. Whiskey) and a mirror held to their face. And that may be the tough thing to do, but it may also be the right thing to do. Point is, before we all get so wrapped up in threatening violence, and calling people nasty names on here, maybe we ought to scritinize it a little more and/or show some restraint.

As for the original poster, it is too bad that she got canned. I was thinking on my way home how I would explain that in a future interview. You don’t generally want to run down your former boss in your interview, but you also have to address the fact that you were fired. I’m not sure what I would do and at this point, maybe some posts on the best way to handle that would be the most help to her.

Call yourself an IT Manager?????

In reply to Your story makes no sense

Your profile lists you as Executive IS/IT Management. You clearly haven’t got a clue. You are a litigation case waiting for somewhere to happen. If you can’t spot bullying in the workplace and propose a mature constructive solution to help someone deal with, what for them is clearly a very stressful and traumatic situation, don’t waste your time posting.

You are exactly the sort of idiot that techs constantly post about on this site vis a vis Bad Managers. It’s about time you retired as your management style is 20 years out of date and smacks of coming from the military….

Re: Call yourself an IT Manager

In reply to Call yourself an IT Manager?????

I know you intended your comments as an insult, but considering we have the most effective military in the history of mankind I’m at a loss to see why that is an issue. Contrary to what so many would like to believe, management in the military is not very different from civilian management. Orders are given and expected to be followed regardless what organization you work for. If you choose to not follow there can be repurcussions. In fact in the civilian sector an individual may be allowed to get away with considerably more for a longer period of time.

Managment Styles

In reply to Re: Call yourself an IT Manager

You are correct it was intended as a rebuke.

There is a huge difference in man management styles between the military and civilian organisations and both have their place. However my point is Amcol’s opinions are as out of place as they are outdated if he condones bullying in a civilian workplace then he puts his employer at risk of litigation. Where as pushing a recruit to their limits to get them ready for combat is acceptable within a military context.

I am not sure I would agree with you “we have the most effective military in the history of mankind” you guys have some pretty good killing technology. However when you are fighting an invisible enemy that blends into the civilian populous it is useless, it took the British Army 25 years fighting in Northern Ireland to learn how to fight this sort of war with minimum casualties you guys need to catch up it isn’t about firepower it is about local intel which you only get when you make friends with the locals.

If you want to know what military efficiency is check out the action fought at Rouke’s Drift that is probably one of the greatest examples leadership and effectiveness in the face of adversity.

Stress is everywhere

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I chose my TR site moniker, stress junkie, for a reason. It’s my experience that many work environments are often stressful. Some of it is imposed on you such as when you are treated badly. Other stress is self imposed such as when you make a mistake and feel badly about it. The point is that, for whatever reason, work is often stressful. Many managers are abusive. That doesn’t excuse their behavior but it’s just a fact of the work environment in many places.

That said, if I were in your situation I would get another job. Your manager’s behavior qualifies as assault. If HR hasn’t fired him yet then they probably won’t ever fire him.

Lastly you will probably find some stress in any job, even if your stress is mostly self imposed. If you are lucky enough to get a job where the environment is reasonable at least you will now appreciate it. If you don’t learn to deal with it you will end up with stomach ulcers and irritable bowels. Trust me, I know.

In summary, get another job and learn to cope.

Good luck.

Good and Bad

In reply to Stress is everywhere

‘Stress’ is necessary and comes in good and bad flavours. The trick is to keep the bad stress in under control, unfortunately, ‘bad’ stress is cumulative and creeps up on you. I reckon it took 18 months for me to acknowledge my problem and get help, by which time I was a different person.

You could also…

In reply to Stress is everywhere

just start putting some kind of laxative in his coffee every morning…

Or start pulling really mean practical jokes on him.

Or send him some anonymous death threats.

Or steal his cell phone, and after carefully constructing a bomb threat by splicing his recorded words, call his boss and play it.

There are all kinds of things you could do.

I say it’s time to get mad, lady. And in my experience there is nothing more scary than a woman scorned.

Your Ideas

In reply to You could also…

That was good!! I liked every one of your ideas.

And I am mad. I was so mad I couldn’t function.

I have learned however, to be careful how you title your threads. *geez*

Everyone has the idea that I am completely and totally weak and powerless, I believe the term “wuss” has been used. I’m not. I have resources. This site is one. I’m not one to go screaming into situations, both feet first, and go “oops” because I wasn’t informed. You don’t build respect that way. And I chose this forum, because this is my work environment.

I’ve never met anyone who’s been verbally abused (not harrassed) in the workplace.

Ready, Fire, Aim

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I think that stepping back about ten paces is in order. This person is extremely abusive, has caused you physical distress yet you seem to want to protect him. Several things to keep in mind.
1. This is probably a job you do not want to keep (it’s killing you!)
2. There are laws about this sort of thing. His continued badgering sets up a case of abusive workplace claim. Secondly, that you have gone to HR twice and they fail to do anything about it is a good case against the company. Are you the only one that sees this behavior? If not, is there support for a class action suit?
A letter to HR describing the situation and the issues, and establishing a formal complaint makes this issue come to light… they don’t want to get sued and firing you for sending them the letter will get them sued.

Believe me, going down this path is not fun. In fact it is horrible. There is a lot of stress in it but you get to see some level of justice, protect yourself to some degree and buy some time to find another position. As an executive level manager in the IT field, I find it truely interesting that the company allows such behaviour. Good luck.

Bad advice

In reply to Ready, Fire, Aim

I’m getting a little tired of people all over this board constantly recommending actions involving lawsuits, or threats of lawsuits.

While the behavior is entirely obnoxious, there’s nothing inherently illegal about verbal abuse. If you’re an executive level IT professional then you’ve been through the same HR and harrassment training I have, so you know this. There’s an extremely high level to which the abuse would have to rise, including physical confrontation, before it could be considered actionable.

Folks who do go down the path of filing lawsuits inevitably discover two sad facts: one, these suits rarely are won by the plaintiff and even in the event you do prevail your reward is not nearly worth the pain; and two, these suits become public record and can render you unemployable. Your odds of a favorable outcome resulting from which you can walk away feeling vindicated, with substantial enough financial recompense, and with no future career implications are somewhere south of 5%. (None of what I’ve just said is opinion, these are all documented facts.) Would you go to Vegas and play a game like that? Neither would I.

You’re right about a few things. There’s no reason for the poster to feel any responsibility to protect the abusive boss. The poster should look into new employment. Documenting the abusive behavior to HR is always a good idea. And, as I’ve stated, going down the path of pursuing legal action is indeed no fun at all.

I stand by my previous post. The poster should take control of his own life and figure out why he’s allowing the situation to affect him so deeply. He should make positive, concrete, proactive decisions to address the situation and move on. As it stands, he’s standing on the tracks and allowing the train to run over him repeatedly. Why would anyone do that?

Oh man..

In reply to Bad advice

I’m going to disagree with you again. There ARE laws against verbal abuse. It’s not legal to harrass another person in the work place. And a boss harrassing a subordinate is completely unacceptable. You should not use your position of authority to abuse another person, and if you DO use it, you should suffer the consequences.

I am in total agreement that people jump to sue WAY too quickly. I believe that people just waiting for a chance to sue invalidates truly horrific situations. Suing an individual or company should be the last resort for anyone. I stand by my original advice, which is to just get the hell out of Dodge. Who needs that kind of environment? Life is way too short to be miserable most of the time.

Washington DC

In reply to Bad advice

“If you’re an executive level IT professional then you’ve been through the same HR and harrassment training I have, so you know this. There’s an extremely high level to which the abuse would have to rise, including physical confrontation, before it could be considered actionable.”

If the recipient of abuse is anything other than a white male then suddenly almost anything is actionable. I worked in Washington DC for several years (Navy Yard) and stayed out of trouble, but saw plenty of people at the short end of HR actions and civil litigation.

Even so, office politics were intense inside the beltway and I am sometimes amazed that anything gets done!

And if …

In reply to Washington DC

… the recipient of abuse is a white male then anything goes!!

But if

In reply to And if …

not if the the white male is over 40 (age discrimination) or he has “transgender issues.” Seriously. I went to an HR symposium at UCLA, and heard a labor lawyer speak about this.

Only white males under 40 without transgender issues can be legally discriminated against.

White is Blight

In reply to But if

I heard a hearing officer from the EEOC make the explanation of how hiring a 35 year old ex-con was the same as hiring a 48 year old with an honorable discharge at a seminar once.

But then again, she did axe us if we’d be having any questions afterwards…

Tiresome

In reply to Bad advice

Is there anything at all positive about you? Maybe you should do some research on abuse.

As you wish

In reply to Tiresome

I really don’t want to get into a legal debate…I’m neither a lawyer nor a legal scholar, and neither are you or any of the other posters who’ve opined on this subject. However, since you brought it up, I DID do a little research on the subject.

The legal definition of “verbal harassment” as something that can be punished as workplace harassment is if it’s severe or pervasive enough to create a hostile or abusive work environment based on race, religion, sex, national origin, age, disability (including obesity), military membership or veteran status, sexual orientation, marital status, transsexualism or cross-dressing, political affiliation, criminal record, prior psychiatric treatment, occupation, citizenship status, personal appearance, matriculation, tobacco use outside work, Appalachian origin, receipt of public assistance, or dishonorable discharge from the military.

That fairly clear explanation is according to Eugene Volokh, Professor, UCLA Law School, as originally published in the Georgetown Law Journal.

Did any of that happen to you? Are you prepared to prove as much in a court of law? If so, have a nice lawsuit. If not, come up with another strategy.

I’m sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear. It’s a lot easier and certainly more fun to contemplate making your tormentor as miserable as he’s making you. Filing a lawsuit isn’t the path to redemption.

Except that …

In reply to As you wish

Professor Volokh forgot to mention: None of the above apply if the object of the abuse is a middle-aged white male.

(Don’t have the supreme court case handy, but is was a class action against some police department over age discrimination.)

OMFG…

In reply to Tiresome

I can’t believe the depths of UR self appointed self importance. Like any Republican…U believe that simply because U believe something….That makes it true…CAN U UNDERSTAND THE WORDS COMING OUTTA YO MOUF?…Listen to URsef…Biatch! Some has to tell U!!! MF…Still…He’s an $%#hole & U shouldn’t work 4 him 1 more day…Leave……Biatch!!!
AC

Feel better now?

In reply to OMFG…

To everyone who has responded to my postings by accusing me (at various times) of preaching, pedantry, knowing nothing about psychology or sociology, not actually being an IT executive, and a variety of other offenses to the point where some herein have actually suggested TR should censor and/or censure me:

In all my postings I’ve conducted myself professionally. I don’t talk down to anyone. I never represent myself as being the ultimate authority on anything. I don’t use vulgarities, profanities, scatalogical references, engage in name calling, or do anything that can be considered remotely offensive.

In short, I respect the intelligence of the participating community. You may not agree with what I have to say but I don’t take offense and I don’t fling insults in return to anyone’s vitriol.

What do all of you have to say to the previous poster? How do you feel about this person’s contribution?

I thought I was participating in a professional forum. Perhaps I was wrong.

regretably agree

In reply to Feel better now?

As much as I disagree with your original postings, I have to agree with you here. It’s funny cause there have been several posts that have brought up the concept “personal responcibility” and I have been inclind to make a political observation, but it’s really out of the scope of this topic and can only lead us further away from the original posters problems.

The last poster’s thoughts were incoherant and the “LEET speak” is really annoying and out of place on a professional board.

I didn’t like your first post but I’m a little surprised at the heated reaction it’s receiving from some posters. People need to calm down and take a step back. Collect your thoughts and express them. Name calling really it’s an effective means of debating and will usually have an inverse impact on the author’s goal.

I Agree w/U

In reply to Feel better now?

So HIS actions are AhhhLL professional…Nothing profane/wrong ’bout what he did…But I’m the asshole here….THANKS!

The Truth…is the truth…is the truth…is the truth…he will find a way to mess up his own damn sef…It’s not her job to end his job…It’s her job to take care of hersef…

Just because U don’t like the message/messenger…doesn’t make me wrong.

She still needs 2 leave & my experience has been 2 never look back…2 much effort & in the end…no one fucking cares…

Some people can only hear the truth when it is presented in very clear…”professional” terms…The very same method by which “pink slips” are delivered….

UR right…U were wrong….

Been there…Done that…Old School….

AC

Tend to Agree

In reply to Bad advice

Tho I respect lawyers and all that they do, especially when bringing some arrogant crum-bum to their knees, I tend to agree with Amcol on this.

Closest I came was an administrative hearing over unemployment with religion-boss. He thought I should not get unemployment because if your don’t trust someone, of course they were fired for cause. The few seconds the hearing officer was reading the “I could trust you more if you would join us at Our Lady of Perpertual Motion on Sundays” memo was perhaps the most fun I have had in court (and that included the previous 15+ years doing bankruptcy paralegal work).

Just who are you?????

In reply to Bad advice

Oh brother! First you were an IT executive (questionable), then you were a psychologist…not (not even questionable), now you’re a lawyer…not (also not questionable). OMG! What a fabulous, wonderful, and helpful ‘person’ you are!

Signed…Ms. Fed up with Mental Midgets

Thanks

In reply to Just who are you?????

For the wonderfully eloquent responses you’ve posted, expressed in such professional terms.

Exactly how are YOU being helpful?

mental midget

In reply to Thanks

All of us have been through something where we welcomed constructive ideas and had to deal with detrimental words like yours that made the situation worse. I’m curious about how others’ have dealt with this, too. I can’t her help, I don’t know it all like you do. But I can help by not paying attention to mental midgets anymore.

PS Mental midget is a really good term and as professional as one can get besides the obvious alternatives.

Consulting a lawyer is not a lawsuit

In reply to Bad advice

Often times people hear you without listening. When a letter arrives at HR from a lawyer, people will listen. The letter does not have to threaten legal action, it merely has to point out a suspicion of potential abuse and an intention to investigate if matters are not attended to in an expedited fashion.

People on this string who are giving advise to move on I can only say one thing, I am glad you are living in this country in this century. Had you been here in 1776 we would still be flying a British flag.

Injustice anywhere should be questioned and challenged. You should not have to move on and disrupt your life because of some tyranical dictator with a medical condition, although I am wondering how you know his medical history. However, look at the situation long and hard to be sure you are in the right and he/she is in the wrong. If you think he/she is wrong then it is your obligation to stand your ground.

Never the less, in this occupation, in this country and this economy you should always have a fresh copy of your resume and network yourself.

document document document

In reply to Ready, Fire, Aim

First off – could there be any other reason this guy is allowed to act this way without being (figuratively) “kicked to to curb” by your HR folks? Is this company possibly engaged in any downsizing and so they are not only aware of but may in fact be encouraging this kind of behavior by him as a way of forcing staff to quit in disgust instead of doing layoffs?

It’s not as far-fateched as it sounds! I’ve seen it happen in two companies I’ve worked with and only dodged the bullet myself by DOCUMENTING EVERYTHING and sending the docs home (by yahoo or whatever if he’s reading your Exchange) and by not rising to the bait. You’re not jsut some schlub – you’re both a valued employee and a reasonable human being (keep telling yourself this!) and make it plain (again, CALMLY) that you really don’t accept abusive behavior but are willing to (RATIONALLY) discuss any concerns your boss may have (preferably in front of witnesses, but don’t say that!)
I finally left the first place under my own steam when I could and with my dignity intact – and (so far at least!) have dodoged the last couple of instances of this where I am now.It goes around whenever the upper level folks start looking at their bottom line and don’t want to have out any severance. They try to bully people into leaving. From what I’ve heard elsewhere, this is unfortunately a prety common tactic.

It’s a little too late right now if you’re already on medical leave (and that paints a great big target on you unfortunately)- so it might be time to just say “to heck with you guys” and certainly start looking in earnest for another job.

But one thing I’ve done here is ask the (not quite as abusive) supervisor “Is there something we need to talk about in a meeting to help clear things up for you? Should we have a sit down with HR and CALMLY see if there are things we BOTH can do so that you’re happier with my job performance?”

If they say “yes” – well and good – bring documents to the meeting, PLAY NICE and act like you’re sincerely interested in trying to improve the entire workplace environment so that it can better understand and meet whatever concerns seem to be prompting this person’s unhappiness. (Yeah, it may have to just be an ACT – but go with it!)

If they say “NO” and HR doesn’t seem to care – then the writing is on the wall and it’s time to get out of Dodge with as much personal dignity as you can – but if it’s making you sick (and it CAN, I know!) get out NOW and take care of yourself. The rest is just the usual bulls***t of our lousy economy. Hold on to your own sense of SELF and make sure that THAT is OK and let the rest go down the tubes without you!

Document, copy, and bcc

In reply to document document document

I have been in a similiar situation a couple times in my life and usually it happens when the person feels threatened for some reason. Going with the phrase keep your friends close and enemies closer, it sounds like that is exactly what scenario is going on. Power control issues are all about insecurity. It would not be surprising to find him very buddy buddy with HR and others even with behind the scene tactics to blackball them too.
Listen, record, then email a reply back to him restating what he said to you for clarification copying HR and bcc to you own personal outside acct and legal counsel or insurance company. This way not only are your informing Hr of the not previouslly documented meeting wheare hr should be present anyway, but you have a recourse for taking to unemployment if needed. Most of all by doing this process the person will be forced to see their actions replayed and get a bit of hearing his own bruising tactics. It could calm the person down a bit that you are not just taking it because you are his “friend”, but that you are actually listening and prepared to meet him head on as he sinks his own ship even trying to take you down in the process. In the end it won’t be just one person leaving the department, but it should not keep you from having just as good if not a better job. This documentation also acts as a stress reliever to make you realize how you handled the sitution, the other person’s crazy behavior, and make you stronger to realized you lived through it with out going postal crazy yourself.
In the meantime, start looking for a “hobby” where you are not in competition with your current employment so that it can not be used against you. Try to get this hobby to be profitable and sustainable by trying to bring others into it as well. It’ll serve as a way to transition yourself to another place for income and occupy your mind away from your current job to the point you will no longer care what happens at your current, because you won’t need it. Then maybe you can say to him that you r friendship serves itself better not working together and wish him the best!

No Tolerance

In reply to Ready, Fire, Aim

I aggree with this. We all have our battle scares and Im sure I could run out of room on this page if I tried to start telling just one.
I will tell you that this is not a good situation to be in and you should remove yourself from it or you could take the hard road and fight him.
If you choose to fight, plan on it being one of the hardest things you have ever done. When you start dealing with laws and corporate policies, coporations can easily manipulate the outcome even though your boss is a complete ****** they will defend him if they are in trouble for allowing this to happen.
I had a similar situation and I chose to resign my position. Now I am CTO and a partner in my own company, where this can never be done in any fashion to myself or any of my employees.

Holly Cow!!!!

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I lived in Stockton, C.A. during my teen years, 83-92. I went to St. Marys H.S. and Delta College. We might know one another. Man I miss the old place. It was a rough place mind you but what a great place to decide where you wanted to party. Everything and concerts were all over the place. I hear its gone down quite a bit.

Anyway, Ride the Workman’s comp out till you get your wits again, post resumes out get a another job and leave him to his devices. If you have to go back to work and face him, kill him with kindness. Take all the enjoyment away from his torture of you. That’s my two cents at least.

Cowabunga!

In reply to Holly Cow!!!!

I would have graduated from Lincoln High School in ’72. Went to Stagg High School one year before that, and Daniel Webster Jr. High one year before that. Didn’t quite know how to handle Stockton, as I moved directly from the Idaho country life to 70’s California life. I loathe Stockton now. A city of literally thousands of the rudest people in the world. And this dog-eat-dog mentality. Nothing like the twon I grew up in.

Which Stockton?

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

as you have no location specified, it leads me to believe that you could be in the UK. You also mention Occ Health, which is a UK phrase, which you explain is workers comp….

the reason for asking is that if you’re in Stockton UK, pm me – I’m working just a few miles from you and may be able to point you in a few different directions, especially under UK law.

Let me know…..

GG

Stockton

In reply to Which Stockton?

Stockton, California, USA

OH = Occupational Health

Worker’s Comp = insurance program

ok!

In reply to Stockton

shame – if it had been Stockton UK, I would be about 8 miles from you!

Best of luck

GG

Tough Spot

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I’m not trying to make you feel any worse but I was in a worse situation and from what your describing if you can’t at least opt out for a transfer into another dept you might want to just leave the company. If its obvious to everyone that he’s that way and management knows then its going to continue unless you file a complaint against him. Which in my case I didnt either because of alot of different circumstances but after I left, I was told that she was demoted and not aloud to manage people and her boss got the same as well. Your health is way too important and he could care less about you. As far as your personal information, I had a fellow team member transfer all my personal stuff to cd’s and delete off the server and my two hard drives. If you’ve made friends in that company I bet someone will help you out. As far as you emailing someone about his behaviour and him threatening you, did you at least email it to the compliance or HR department. He wouldnt have a leg to stand on if you did. Regardless of his threats. He sounds like an idiot and obviously thinks that maybe you could turn the tables around and make his life more miserable than he does you.
I’d just get out if I were you. These days its not worth staying at one company longer than five years anyway and thats coming from HR reps. Our bosses never had privilages to our passwords plus we had way too many differnt places to hide stuff if need be. To have a password changed they had to go through the channels like everyone else and your still an employee there its not like you wont ever come back for all he knows. We would just call someone to come in and get whatever it was we needed when they could if out on disability. Man, I would just leave he’s not going anywhere.

Get a lawyer

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I would recommend you hire a good lawyer who specializes in this type of thing. They should be able to help you get your documentation out of there (though why you did not have the foresight to send EVERYTHING offsite is beyond me). This is obviously not a healthy environment for anyone, and it has caused you severe problems with your health. Has anyone else in your department complained about him, how about the users? If you can get some kind of united front against this guy, perhaps he will then be removed…maybe using the tactics he did to get the previous IT Director ousted? This guy is obviously very good at what he does, and has you under his thumb and acting like a frightened rabbit. There ARE actions that can be taken against him, and this is not the ONLY job in the world for you. You now have the time to get yourself together, and figure out your next move, don’t continue letting him make them for you.

Company can get sued for wrongful termination

In reply to Get a lawyer

The situation described here is any labor lawyer’s dream. They can sue the living sh*t out of this company if you are wrongfully terminated because they have created a hostile environment which is affecting your health and well being and because the politics are aimed at you. If HR is sweeping this problem under the rug and not addressing it properly after numerous complaints about this guy, then it’s time the legal system gave them a good ass kicking to straighten them out. Believe me, this situation can and will make you one hell of a wealthy person if this does indeed go to court and this mental case of a manger is exposed for the psychotic maniac that he is and the fact the the company did not address it accordingly.

Compensation

In reply to Company can get sued for wrongful termination

In the UK, unlike physical injury, the level of compensation for stress injury is unlimited.

Here is what you do

In reply to Get a lawyer

You must judge carefully. Once you start this, you MUST see it to completion. That completion is termination of your boss. If you try to kill the king, you MUST kill him or you are a dead man.

1st file a formal complaint with the HR department citing “HOSTLE WORK ENVIRONMENT”. THAT PHRASE IS KEY. If they don’t respond in a timely manner, go get a lawyer as you will have them by the short hairs. If HR DOES start an investigation, your boss will be PISSED, so plan ahead. Make sure you document any abuse, threats, whatever.

2nd grab all the documentation you can. Being off work for stress ISN’T enough. You must be able to PROVE that your boss is CAUSING the stress. WRITE DOWN every time you remember your boss blowing up at ANYBODY and any detail you remember about this (your lawyer will want this later). DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT. Your only shot is a LONG trail of DOCUMENTATION (even if you write it at home)

Finally, start looking for a new job. Unless EVERYONE agrees that your Boss is an idiot and terminates him, you will get a “rep” as a troublemaker. Your career there will be over. The only silver lining is that your boss will be gone and you MIGHT have some money in your pockets from this. A company I worked for a few years ago lost a lawsuit like this one and it cost them 1.5 million. The company I work for now just fired my boss for the same issue (no..I didn’t do it, but I applauded when he left) Good luck

Suggestion….

In reply to Here is what you do

In addition to what pexpert has said, do you still have your employee card and is it still active to get into the building? If so, go there on a Saturday, Sunday or Holiday and get a copy off the hard drive of the email server (or whatever server you used) where your documentation is stored. Burn a CD with this info and keep it at home. Never, I repeat, NEVER send emails from the company server when you do this. Even if the boss doesn’t know how to find this on the server, all he has to do is tell another employee to find it and he’ll know everything you’ve sent via email. Always keep documentation at home and in your personal computer at home. Don’t keep papers in your desk or filing cabinet, as a quick search of these places are available to him, whether you are there at work or not.

Absolutely get a lawyer

In reply to Get a lawyer

And take that job and shove it, you ain’t workin’ there no more. It’s just not worth the stress and mental anquish. Sure there is always stress at work, but there is no reason to work in an abusive situation.

Let me know

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

If you want to get back at him! I have had micro managers and managers who take all the credit. You need to take your pride and find a new job, just leave him off of your resume.

Reply To: Bi-Polar OCD Boss

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

#1 This person is not your friend no matter how many times he tells you.

#2. It would appear to me that the karmic thing to do here would be to get him fired and take his job.

Shakespeare Rides Again :-)

In reply to Reply To: Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Yes, it would be a truly tragic comedy.
Especially since the first IT managers son still works there as an IS Tech.

friends, etc.

In reply to Reply To: Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Part of the problem is that we (like my Pollyanna-ish mother) tend to ascribe the term “friend” to everyone in your aquaintance.

Yes, we get where we are in life with the help and assistance of others, but whether they are true friends or not is an entire other issue.

Nutter

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

What a nutter mate….Well, I guess ur only way of defense is to show ur seniors whats going on…Thy gotta know that its him not u whos lying..

And the only way, I can think of doing this is to somehow keep whatever he says on record. But then if he shouts loud enuf for the neighbors to hear…How come ur bosses are still silent…??

They have the power to fire this man….

Time to Fly

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

He sounds like a tyrant — best thing you can do is leave! Surely he’ll do it again and is bound — eventually to get fired — but you shouldn’t make yourself suffer — no no — get the heck out of there and get another job! Working is the best cure for “stress.”

Reply To: Bi-Polar OCD Boss

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

IF THIS MAN WHERE YOUR FRIEND HE WOULD NOT DISRESPECT YOU LIKE THIS. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU DOCUMENT ALL INCIDENTS AND ALSO, RECORD IF YOU CAN ALL CONVERSATIONS.

I WAS IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS AND IF IT HAD NOT BEEN FOR ME BEING VERY DETAILED, DATES, TIMES, ETC., ABOUT THE ABUSE I WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PROVE IT.

YOU SHOULD REQUEST TO WORK FOR SOMEONE ELSE DUE TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

YOU SHOULD TELL THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. THIS IS NOT BEING VINDICTIVE. TELL YOUR STORY TO EVERYONE.

Reply To: Bi-Polar OCD Boss

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

IF THIS MAN WHERE YOUR FRIEND HE WOULD NOT DISRESPECT YOU LIKE THIS. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU DOCUMENT ALL INCIDENTS AND ALSO, RECORD IF YOU CAN ALL CONVERSATIONS.

I WAS IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS AND IF IT HAD NOT BEEN FOR ME BEING VERY DETAILED, DATES, TIMES, ETC., ABOUT THE ABUSE I WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PROVE IT.

YOU SHOULD REQUEST TO WORK FOR SOMEONE ELSE DUE TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

YOU SHOULD TELL THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. THIS IS NOT BEING VINDICTIVE. TELL YOUR STORY TO EVERYONE THAT IS APPROPRIATE. GOD BLESS.

You are NOT Crazy…

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

You said it early on: “he’s an abuser” …that is exactly right.

The description you have given–based on my 10 year’s experience working with family violence shelters–matches that description exactly. The part about him telling you that “he is your only friend” gave me chills. This guy is not only abusing you, but is trying to isolate you from everyone else by telling you that he is the only refuge you have, then telling you how worthless you are. Classic abuser behavior.

Some of the people who have criticized you for “letting him” get under your skin don’t know what you are really dealing with.

There is very little chance that you can do anything to change him. If the company that you work for will not fire him, you might want to seroiusly consider moving on. And if you do that, make sure that he does NOT know where you are going, your phone number, address, etc.

If you doubt any of this, call your local Family Violence hotline — usually can be anonymouse– and tell one of the counselors what you are going through at work. I am sure they will at least validate that this person is an abuser. It can happen to anyone. And they will tell you that reasonable behavior from others won’t work to fix this.

Best of luck to you. Don’t blame yourself. I am just so glad you don’t have more than a work relationship with this person.

Diana O

Family Violence Hotline

In reply to You are NOT Crazy…

You made me cry. Thank you.
Someone to talk to.
You have no idea how isolated I feel.
Like I am the criminal, and must be kept away from the others.
All I want to do is what I love doing — my job.

Three Options

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

If the situation is affecting your health, you need to take action and take it now. I would suggest one of three actions depending on your personal evaluation of the costs of staying with your company versus the benefit of staying with your company.

Option 1, Learn to Ignore Your Boss’s Temper – Do not let your boss’s bad temper affect you. During his tirades, stand calmly and answer “Yes, sir” and “No, Sir” as appropriate. Do not engage in any aruguments. This approach requires a lot of self-belief and is only worthwhile if you believe your boss is not going to be around for very long.

Option 2, Request a Transfer – Go to your HR department and ask to be transfered. There is no need to prove your boss is bad or justify your request. Just ask to be transfered. Be willing to accept a step down in prestige or pay; if you do well, you can always climb back up. This will work if the only person you are on bad terms with is your current boss, that is, you are on good terms or no opinion with others.

Option 3, Find a New Job – Actively start looking for a job. Contact a headhunter and be willing to accept just about anything to get out of the current situation. The rationale is as above, you can always recover pay and status, it will just cost you some time.

Review the above options and take out 3 sheets of paper. For each option, make a list of the best things that can happen and a list of the worst things that can happen. Yes, write this down, don’t just try to do it in your head. Wait 1 day annd review your lists. Decide on the best course of action, and implement it immediately.

You cannot let the stress affect your health. The stress arises from you not taking action to eliminate it and just hoping it will resolve itself. Please, take this recommendation to heart and decide to take some action. I wish you the bet of luck and hope you find a way out of your situation.

Digest

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I thank all of you (except maybe one) for your replies. To settle some questions, I am 51 yrs. old, have worked in corporate and IT environments for 26 years, have dealt with a lot of bosses. This is the first time I have ever ever ever dealt with an abusive screaming vindictive bi-polar maniac. And trust me when I say — he is good. He is subtle. He thinks. He forgets people can hear him scream. He’s had years of practice. He is a survivor of violent abuse by an alcoholic father. And in answer to the one smart-alec: He never in all our years showed this side of himself because he was never in a position to do so — at least not with me. We went to concerts, dirt-biked, did friend things. I did not even know this side existed until I went to work for him. I really don’t want him fired. More than anything, I want him demoted from managing people, and then some way to force him into therapy. For a long, long time.

What do I want? If they won’t let me keep the work I’m doing, but put me under a different manager, I will sue them and look for another job. (I did not spend $22,000 on an education to be relocated to file 3 years worth of invoices.)

I go back to Occupation Health this morning — as soon as I’m done writing this. Their Xanax didn’t help — it just held me immobile while my poor stressed brain churned on. It allowed me to see that the abuse went a lot deeper than I initially thought, and I am ashamed that my co-workers were all subjected to this.

I had nightmares. I called my boyfriend sobbing this morning. I want my job. I am terrified they will put me back under this man. I will refuse. I am not afraid to be fired. I have never been afraid to stand up and fight for myself. Once I figured out what was going on, of course. I have to admit I was rather blind-sided by this man.

Again, thank you all. If nothing else, it’s is helpful to hear from those who have been through it, or have the wisdom and advice that both helps and encourages.

~~Sherry~~

I wish you the best of luck

In reply to Digest

Like I said, I had a similar situation. I was hired by a former client and had NO idea he was so abusive when I took the job. I had a horrible time dealing with the stress of working for this man. He belittled me in front of the rest of staff (and then call it a joke). He had NO concept of personal space and would get horribly mad when I would ask him to step out of mine. I was fortunate. He got fired. If that hadn’t happened, I would have left years ago. There is absolutely NO reason to subject yourself to this type of behavior. And if you DO get fired, take your case to an attorney. I will offer this advice though, if you DO decide to start looking for another job, do NOT, under any circumstances, give this issue as your reason for looking for a new job. Right or wrong, prospective employers will see you as a problem person and you won’t even be considered.

Go back to work and verbally castrate him!

In reply to Digest

Knowing your boss’s past and being a woman I’m sure you can verbally castrate him without raising your voice. Return the favor and make him stressed out so he has to take time off. If your job is in jeopardy anyway what have you got to lose?

BPD/OCD = mean?

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Has your friend/boss been diagnosed with BPD and OCD, and is this the cause of all his obnoxious behavior, or is he just mean? We should be carefull not to support negative stereotypes about the mentally ill, especially while on “acute stress leave by order of Occupation Therapy (Workers Comp).”

BPD/OCD = just what they mean

In reply to BPD/OCD = mean?

Yes, he has been diagnosed. Yes, he has meds. Does he take them? Your guess is as good as mine. This is not a stereotyped comment about a mentally ill person. This is about an abusive person who is allowed to manage other people. His temper tantrums and screaming rages are known throughout the company.

Holy Jesus, Holy Jesus, Holy Jesus!!!!

In reply to BPD/OCD = just what they mean

If his rants R known throughout the company…& HR has done nothing…UR screwed girrrfriend….Either he has something on someone in charge or he’s sleeping w/the Boss’s daughter…RUNNNNNN!!!!! RUNNNNNNNN!!!! RUNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!

Sister to Sister

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I’m 52, female, and all-too familiar with this kind of situation. And we both remember the “bad old” days when workplace harrassment of the worst kinds were not only endured but practically expected, before the days of so-called-protective legislation, and when we were too green to protect ourselves.

You’re at a turning point now that you can see what’s going on. Diana O’s post was excellent. If you hadn’t come to this forum for help, or SOMEwhere for help, you could have slipped past the point of return in this guy’s (probably unconscious) plan to make you another trophy. So ignore the guys who really do mean well but simply do not comprehend the situation. I respect and admire a number of them, but here the boys are out of their element.

WHAT TO DO R I G H T N O W ! ! ? ? Change the equation.

There are ways to pull this off, but the end result is that you DISMISS this man from your psychological and emotional life. The strategies are numerous and not appropriate for this forum.

Please contact me directly.

Chris

I/T Administrator

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

You know your situation is not unique, I promise you, in reading what you wrote, it sounds like I could have written the exact same thing, I mean word for word! The difference between you and I is, I look at this as a challenge, a learning experience, a way to practice my skill both computer knowledge wise, and dealing with idiots wise, the computer part speaks for it?s self, but when it comes to the idiot?s that?s another story. The 1st thing you need to do is get inventive, you have to come up with ways to cover you?re backside, i.e.; get a tape recorder, start recording some of the times he?s yelling and saying some of the things you both know he shouldn?t be saying, try to have a witness sometimes when the person is ranting and raving, and last but not least, documentation, document everything you can as soon after the incident as you can (so everything is fresh). I think the best advice I can give you is to not be afraid, if you?ve not done anything wrong than you have nothing to fear, especially if you carry a tape recorder with you. With a tape recorder it?s never your word against his it?s his words against him!

What Can I Say

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I went into Occupation Health today. They decided an antidepressant would be better than the mellow yellow they had me on. Personally, I could do without them all.

Went back to work with the doctor’s note, and was then fired.

It’s been a wonderful day.

Oh, and he’s still working there. I guess they’re going to slap his hand — again.

here are two solutions for your problem.

In reply to What Can I Say

1. Put some kiddie porn on a floppie, sneak it onto his hard drive, and notify the law.
2. Put some kiddie porn on a floppie, transfer it to your computer, and notify the law.

Thanks!

In reply to here are two solutions for your problem.

Thank you for the long, thoughtful chuckle.

Glad you can still laugh!

In reply to Thanks!

Sherry,
You are welcome. I hoped that the interjection of some humor might lighten your mood, even if momentarily.
Once I asked a lawyer how to collect some money that was owed me. He said “Ask him for it. If he refuses, take him out in the woods and ask him one more time.”
I wasn’t necessarily attempting to be humorous with my suggestions. If the individual is as evil as you portray him, then I would be using whatever means at my disposal to improve the situation.
Of course the argument could be made that such action would reduce you to his level. Well, I survived more than one battlefield by reducing myself to the opponent’s ‘level’. We are talking about survival here, are we not? I would not wait for “God” to punish him. Karma is an attitude.
You say that you don’t want to cause him any harm. If the alternative is to cause harm to yourself, well…?
I worked as a crisis intervention counselor for some years. There was one individual that called me on a nightly basis for two or three years, and whatever the suggestion, the reply was “yes, but…”. If you are unable to take action, please get some counseling from a qualified practitioner with your interests at heart. Workman’s Compensation therapists such as you mentioned are typically interested in returning you to work by the most expeditious means, rather than addressing the underlying problems.
Many years ago, Mrs. Dale Carnegie wrote a book called “How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Start Living.” (I may not remember the title exactly.) You would be well served to read a copy of it. Good luck, and try to recognize that no one is responsible for your situation but yourself. Because of that fact, no one can change it but you.

Observation

In reply to Thanks!

It appears that not only do you have a dysfunctional boss but that there are fundamental problems when HR and others allow this type of behavior.
I have worked in the technology industry for 25 years and have run into numerous individuals who exhibit this type of behavior. You need to ask your self one question: if this person was gone would the environment be professional, with values and ethics? The answer should tell you whether it is fighting for or not.

Jim T.

FIRED?

In reply to What Can I Say

Now you sound like you have a case against them. What was their explanation if all you did was appear with a doctor’s note? Now I would take this personal. They are obviously covering for him. Heck consider bringing it to the attention of your local newspaper. Make a BIG stink about it. Also as suggested earlier see if others will testify with you and perhaps provide copies of you emails (but they need to be careful cuz HR and legal departments at times like this tend to lock up the email and computers of potential “troublemakers” – companies I have worked for have been in the news so trust me on this one).

Yeah. What was the official reason?

In reply to FIRED?

What reason for terminating you are they going to tell to the unemployment office?

Since you were just returning from disability caused by your work environment and it is documented by a physician then it seems like you have a really good case against them. Find a lawyer.

Life in the Sunshine State

In reply to Yeah. What was the official reason?

Florida, like some other states, is called a “right-to-work” state. That is something of a misnomer. You can be fired here without cause. The only restrictions to that are federal in nature, relating to discrimination issues. Not many rights for the worker here…

computer lockup

In reply to FIRED?

My now ex-boss IS the Exchange Administrator. I threatened to fire me because he was reading my emails and reading my comments I was sending to my boyfriend as part of my documentation. He would also change my networks passwords, inactivate my account, change privileges. Depended on what he was punishing me for that day.

It’s a mom&pop family politics business. The HR person is so upset, commenting she was firing the wrong person. The owner is the one who determined I should be fired. Why? I discovered my boss has been named as a defendent in a sexual harrassment suit against the company. They were trying to fire me before the Workers Comp went through, on the boss’ charges, so I couldn’t file an abuse complaint/claim.

I am getting a very big attorney.

IMHO you’ve just been done a favor

In reply to What Can I Say

Last year at this time I was pretty stressed myself.
My then-boss was a decent bloke. But when coworker is the boss’s favorite and you’re not nothing you do really matters. Coworker simply could do no wrong, although IMO there was plenty wrong with him. So when they had to tighten up guess who got laid off. Bossman knew he had no grounds to fire me In laying me off did me a huge favor. After a while off I got a much more interesting job 40% higher pay with a boss who is 100% awesome.

BTW if you were fired wrongfully and can prove it you can pursue wrongful termination.

And there’s a lesson in here for everyone. Keep your work documentation off site!!!! Even now with a boss I adore, I save work chat whiteboard sessions and status reports on a machine not controlled by them. Even if you don’t own a puter at home you can get a thumb drive or something. It’s funny how even the best work relationships can turn sour in a heartbeat. The next thing is, your boss can NOT be your friend. If he was your friend before, the friendship suspends as long as he is controlling your livelihood. I like my current boss very much. He might get to be my friend someday if I stop being his employee. But while I am I maintain a professional distance. He knows that and I know it and that makes for an awesome work relationship.

IMHO you’ve just been done a favor

In reply to What Can I Say

Last year at this time I was pretty stressed myself.
My then-boss was a decent bloke. But when coworker is the boss’s favorite and you’re not nothing you do really matters. Coworker simply could do no wrong, although IMO there was plenty wrong with him. So when they had to tighten up guess who got laid off. Bossman knew he had no grounds to fire me In laying me off did me a huge favor. After a while off I got a much more interesting job 40% higher pay with a boss who is 100% awesome.

BTW if you were fired wrongfully and can prove it you can pursue wrongful termination.

And there’s a lesson in here for everyone. Keep your work documentation off site!!!! Even now with a boss I adore, I save work chat whiteboard sessions and status reports on a machine not controlled by them. Even if you don’t own a puter at home you can get a thumb drive or something. It’s funny how even the best work relationships can turn sour in a heartbeat. The next thing is, your boss can NOT be your friend. If he was your friend before, the friendship suspends as long as he is controlling your livelihood. I like my current boss very much. He might get to be my friend someday if I stop being his employee. But while I am I maintain a professional distance. He knows that and I know it and that makes for an awesome work relationship.

Quit

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Quit if possible.

Change your Perception

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

You are facing the equivalent of schoolyard bullying, and the key to resolving this issue is in your perception of yourself.

The work place abuse literature talks of abusers and targets.

Targets have backbones, targets are in control, they are intelligent.

If you are able to start seeing yourself as a target rather than a victim, you may find the strength to resolve this for yourself, in a way that suits you.

Cheers

There is no excuse that hides behind “bi-polar”., pick one and deal with it

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I could hide behind the same crap, but if you need to hide behind a convenient excuse, you and I have a choice to deal with it or tell them to find another victim. Do NOT become involved. They are only “Bi” polar if you allow the other excuse to rear its ugly head.
We are ONE and only ONE, Tell the other to find another victim.
Stand up. Do NOT become an “Enabler”
In case yiu can’t remember, The words are , I like you, and all of the rest of you can find someone else. Call BULLSHIT and make them accountable.
One soul, one chance with me – Fuck off!
Be tough. or you are not helping.
Do you have values? Or can you conveniently blame it on some self serving bullshit escapism.
Convenient huh?
By the by, all of you liberal minded ratinoalists, send your clients to me and we’ll let them find out where the heart layes – there is only one of those per soul.
This is Boot Camp – Life 101, You are either in, or in the way.
Tough love – yes. Bullshit – NO.

Old MAnager Trick

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Could this be an old manager trick? The amount of times that I have started at a new company and the boss seems to be completely un reasonable, until the point where I have them back with my resignation. After that they are fine!!

This seems to be a method of finding out how far people can be pushed and weather or not they will tolerate it.

Sounds a bit familiar to me!!

Don’t understand bipolar

In reply to Old MAnager Trick

From what you were saying, you do not understand what bipolar really is. Sounds like you have been dealing with just plain “onry” folks. You do not dare bipolar not taking medication. I know this for a fact.

Simple really…Bi-Polar disorder?NO,NO WAY,NEVER,NADA,NINE, NON, NIET, DA?

In reply to Don’t understand bipolar

Simply a lack of certain ELEMENTAL ingredients in brain that
cause on to act in an unbecoming manner, although it is bona
fide “disease” meaning it has own specific set of symptons from
onslaught to worst “CRASHES” or lows, but this person doesn’t’
even sound anywhere NEAR bi-polar as his affect is absolutely
difffernet than 100% of bi-polar personality disorder patients
I’ve worked with for YEARS at the Stanton Center, one of the US’s
BEST and technically advanced psychiatric institutes. Bi-polarism
is usually rated on a continuum, the so called “worst” patients
exhibit certain completely psychotic states like standing in a
pool NUDE or fountian better yet and handing out self portraits
(true story) or getting out of car on Harvard AVE. right in Middle
of Harvard Yard, disrobing becaue too hot and literally stopping
traffice and nicely talking to people, ergo, bi-polar affect tends
to be one of hyper grandiosity, not evil screaming. EVEN in
worst case scenarios TRUE bi-polar on UPSWING will go into mall
and buy clothes for everyone else, max out credit card, or
usually self medicating so bi-polar goes hand in hand with
substance abuse, so go into bar, and purchase top shelf stuff for
entire bar all night until bank account gone, NOT screaming and
being horrific person, this guy diagnosis totally wrong, or
someone is about to become famouse with brand new bi-polar
spin off a mixture of SEVERE OPTICINTESTINAL DYSPAGHIA
syndrom (where lower intenstines get entangled with extremely
large optic nerves ‘hanging down” tending to cause patient to
have shitty outlook on life), …also, sounds like this person has
completely different diagnosis, such as antisocial behaviour
misxed possibly with severe tourret’s syndrome, or general
sufferes from BOSSHOLISM, disorder where by boss is general
shite and can’t help but to do the PETER PARKER thing, which is
scream everything…glad he doesn’t have very, very rare
MERMAN’s SABBATH SYNDROM, where he goes around all day
singing black sabbath songs while immitating Ethyl merman’s
voice. That particular disorder has lead to general and tragic
sudden affliction of co-workers to exhibit “RUN INTO
ONCOMING TRAFFIC” syndrom whereby thier surroundings are
so enured with the HORROR of said boss singing IRON MAN in
Etheyl Merman’s voice, can cause entire staff to be in need of
lifetime of therapy. however, it sounds like the person (the boss
suffers from all of these things with the very exception of BI
POLAR, bi polars even on upswing tend to be grandoise but it
certainly does not manifest itself in screaming at people, he’d
usually be buying flowers for entire office while singing songs at
top of lungs (being serious now) and in what could be construed
as HORRIFCALLY good mood, now, when he CRASHES if he is bi-
polar you wouldn’t see him for MONTHS at a time, it’s sad too,
that with such an easily controlable disease bedcause of a
friggin lack of LITHIUM or SALT in one’s system but now they
come out with DEPAKOTE which is done on monthly basis, just
drop pants quick shot in arse and he’s done…back up on beam, I
think he has SEVERE anxiety disorder and needs a benign
benzodiazepine class medication such as ALPRAZOLAM (XANAX)
or a GIGANTIC MARTINI in morning…shaken…not stirred…

Re: Bi-Polar Disorder

In reply to Simple really…Bi-Polar disorder?NO,NO WAY,NEVER,NADA,NINE, NON, NIET, DA?

Which is why I posed the question to Stressedand Mad if this was her own assessment of her friend/boss’ behavior or she had knowledge of a professional diagnosis.

In short phrase: Tit for Tat.

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Play with the same tricks, for what he is playing with you. thats simple!
Or else leave the job and find the new one.
As far my experience is concerned, I am confident, that he is not going to leave his job any how, bcoz he wants to pressurize this colleagues, so that he should be only superior.

Why dont you try on him? thats Tit for tat!

Jags Chichriya
Solution Architect / Tech Lead
Newminds Technologies pvt. ltd.
mumbai

Fight or flight?

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

As was suggested elsewhere, this is NOT necessarily a youth/inexperience/immaturity issue. I am 47, experienced, mature, tough, unemotional and level-headed, but am still suffering similar problems (I’m sticking it out, though, shedding the stress as best I can)!

According to others, the boss seems to be threatened by my skills, ability and experience – he makes many poor judgement calls, and I’m not afraid to ask the odd truly polite question (professionally, usually in a one-on-one situation). There are others here in the same boat, for similar reasons, so it’s not just me!

I chose to fight, knowing that I may not win and that I might ultimately even have to move on.

I first had informal chats with the boss’ boss, HR, etc … but to no ultimate effect, other than (at least!) to cover myself by making sure they were pre-advised of the situation, in case I might later need to raise a formal grievance.

Having finally reached the point where the informal route is clearly not going to work, I have gathered as much evidence I can, and am about to take this forward formally. It will be acrimonious, I am sure, and in the end perhaps there will be no real winners. I may well find my position untenable here as a result, but … my job here is worth fighting for, so this is my choice.

You need to decide what is best for you – fight or flee. Your choice, and you should make your decision and have no regrets afterwards.

If you chose to fight, then stay unemotional, tackle the issue/situation not the man. Don’t criticise him directly, but only indirectly through statements of fact about the situation (how the situation makes you feel is a fact too).

From what you say, though, it does sound as if fleeing is probably your best bet.

life is short

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Hey, you spend almost a third of your life at your job, you can make it what you want. There are plenty of GOOD jobs out there, and you can find one for you! Where you are now is like getting into a pissing contest with a skunk, in the end everyone stinks. I went through 4 jobs in 2 years before I found my niche, … just yesterday the staff was asked to let the boss know “when we were all taking off for the holidays”

R E S P E C T Sing it!

Be productive while you are out

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I can sympathize with your position, but you are letting it get to you too much. You are young and resiliant. Take the time you have right now to focus on seeking another employer. Take the lessons learned here and scrutinize you next employer. While you wait for the next position(and trust me there will be one) get back to work. When your boss gets “in your face”, just relax and think about the next job. Fantasize about it. Don’t be confrontational because that will only feed his frenzy. If you react like it is not bothering you, he will probably begin to realize that he can no longer push your buttons and the feeding of his inadequate ego that you have been enabling will dissipate. He will lose interest and find someone else to pick on. As a parting gift when you do find another position, forward off all the evidence you have amalgamated as to his interference to his boss. Oh, and by the way, I certainly hope you were not considering maintaining a friendship with him…

You are not alone

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

What comes around goes around, hang in there, Take a class and move on, it is not worth your health,in my case my doctor had me take two weeks off, the one thing she said to me is why do I care what this personn does or say, bottom line I need food and shelter.

Like me !!

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I was in your situation. Today I have no job, no usable reference, and was dismissed with such awful accusations, finding work may be impossible.

Resign, get out on your own terms before you are pushed out. It will happen. I know I’ve been there.

My only hope now is an industrial tribunal. I should have resigned, then looked for another job. It’s the only hope. He will have blackened your name with all the other managers, and with your work colleagues in your absence.

I’m sorry to be so frank, but all of the tell-tale signs are there.

Good Luck in finding a new post !!!!

Been there…Done that…Now better

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I recently went through something similar to what you are currently going through except my boss didn’t get in your face and yell. She was of the mindset that she was always right and that her ideas were the best and everyone else should be able to see that. She was also a micro-manager.

After working for her for about 1 year, I found that if someone openly dissagreed with her they were soon replaced. Well, long story short, I felt that some of the directions that she was giving our section were not realistic with the area that we were in and the type of people that we delt with an a day to day basis so I spoke my mind.

Things got bad after that. Nothing was ever enough nor was it right. I saw everything I did being second guessed and the work environment went hostile very quickly with her. My Supervisor was the only thing that kept me there for the extra 3 to 4 months.

I saw the writing on the walls and had decided to cut and run. It was with this mindset that I went into the dreaded “It is time to let you go” meeting. Although it was being said to be a financial reason for my dissmisal, it was clearly personnal.

Door Closed!

Door Open! Started my own company with a good friend and now am called back to work on thier equipment doing what I was doing before I was realeased and being paid WAY MORE to do it.

Poetic Justice at it’s best.

I agree with some of your posts that you should cut your loses. It is never to late to open a better door.

I’ll go for that

In reply to Been there…Done that…Now better

Though I’m not IT related, I have been in the same situation. Worked for 10 agrivating years with a bipolar forman. Believe me, it NEVER gets better. When I was finally “let go for fiscial reasons”, I had a shot at filling a lawsuit for age discrimination. Thought better of it. Had to move to another state to find work. Seems I beat the odds. The dept of labor only gives you one and onehalf to two years working with a bipolar boss before you are “let go”. Those were the 10 worst years for my wife. She always hated it when I came home from work upset about my boss. Good luck to you.

Been there, done that

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I’ve been in the same boat. I knew it was time to find a new job when the fire department took me from the office to the hospital. Actually I knew before then, but I hadn’t found a new position yet.

Some of these “manager’s” can only manage by spinning everything in their favor. They cheat, lie, they do things to keep everyone off balance.

I was there 3 years and had watched this man fire at least 6 people. He fired the web developer because he was on the internet too much!

This “manager” reported to the CFO, and the CFO did nothing until his job was in jeopardy. When it became the CFO or the IT manager, the IT manager had to go.

I’m out, I’m healthy again, and I’m in a far better position. It’s just sad it took so long.

You need to get out, as soon as you can. Good luck.

Your Boss

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Stressed and Mad – I can feel your pain. In 2002, I was laid off and could not find a job, so I accepted one with a relative, even though I knew that I shouldn’t work for family. But it was the only opportunity I was offered after several months of not working.

It turns out that my cousin has characteristics similar to your boss except my cousin doesn’t scream. He’s paranoid (I’ve been accused of trying to steal from the company and of developing relationships with our vendors to further my own career-neither of which is true). He’s hypercritical (no matter what I do, it’s never quite right), he’s a very poor communicator, he doesn’t pay attention to things for very long and he’s rarely able to complete a task satisfactorily. He also offends other people to the point that our only client broke our contract and he can’t find our company (an RFID systems integrator) any new work because his proposals always criticize the RFP writers instead of selling ourselves.

I’ve stuck with the company because there were some great perks – good pay, trips to cool job sites in the U.S. and overseas. When my boss has an attack of Borderline Personality Disorder, I find it helps me if I remind myself that there are many good things about the job, including the travel, the new things I learn, the fact that I have carte blanche to do my tasks in any way I like, and the excellent relationships I’ve developed with clients and vendors.

Another thing I’ve done is told myself to face an important fact: my boss is never going to change. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. It’s often hard to do, but in the workplace there will always be bad situations that can’t necessarily be changed. In your case, it seems that your company wants to keep your boss as an employee and is not planning to fire him for his behavior. So, I’d stop using HR to deal with him. Instead, I suggest you take a deep breath and realize that he’s not going anywhere and there has to be some way to figure out how to work for him as long as you have this job.

I deal with my boss in several ways. One is exercising (or exorcising) out the demons he can put in my head when I’m tired and low. I’m an avid cyclist and I’ve found that I’m not as stressed or upset with him if I put myself through a grueling bike ride in the hills of central North Carolina. I sleep better and the stress rolls off my shoulders. If your stress-related illness isn’t one that’s affected your ability to exercise, I think you should try something like that to get the cobwebs and his angry voice out of your head.

The second thing I do is practice CYA methodologies. I don’t send emails from my work account or work laptop about my boss. In your case, I suggest you stop using company email to complain about him. If that’s your only email access, you may want to pick up the phone to complain to someone. Or Skype someone if your friends are on different continents like some of mine are. 🙂

I also don’t use my work laptop to further my private ends. I realize that any work I’ve done for my company belongs to the company. I’m concerned about your comment that your boss has found files that you’ve been trying to get offsite. Are they your personal files and you have them on your work computer? That’s not good. Are they files you’ve worked on that you want to take someplace else? If so, that’s not a good idea either. I’m not sure why you’re emailing files offsite, but I think that if possible, you should stop all that.

The best way to deal with bad bosses is to take the high road always. Don’t stoop to their levels. Stay clean and make sure your actions are not any that could be questioned by upper management.

My final suggestion is the hardest, but it can be a big help if you give it a try. Try to approach your dealings with your boss as if you’re calmly playing a chess match with him. Look at his moves and see if there’s a way to anticipate them in the future. Be gentle, scientific, and methodical in your interactions. See if you can anticipate some of his behavior and devise goals and methods for circumventing what he’s doing. And always, always try to keep your cool. I’m lucky because I’m fairly good at figuring people out and anticipating their behavior but I think you know your boss well enough to beat him in your game of chess.

I wish you a speedy recovery and good luck dealing with this.

Something’s missing

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Where the h_ll are you working? China?
I will apologize in person if I am incorrect but there just seems to be some very crucial information missing from this tale. I wonder what the WHOLE story is. Hmmm? Too many unexplained flat statements.

Why would a person take drugs, prescribed or not, if they can “personally do without” either? This sounds way more like a dysfunctional marriage than a boss/employee relationship.

If this clown really acts like this perhaps what he needs is a night out on the town culminating in a good healthy ass kicking and your quitting. Normally don’t advocate violence but bullies don’t understand anything else. What’s this guy got on you anyway?

Seriously, what are you leaving out of this story?

What’s Left Out?

In reply to Something’s missing

Hours and hours of what went on daily. The sneak attacks. The constant threat on my job status. (I’m 51 yrs old and had been looking for 6 mos when he called and begged me to come work for him at this company.) The harrangues on what a worthless employee I was. I kept thinking I could work through it. That he was being this way because he was my friend, and he would telling me he was trying to help me be a success. *snort*

I’ve left out all the other employees who couldn’t take action, had to listen to it, and who finally kindly asked me to do something.

I’ve left out the trips to HR that didn’t result in anything.

And because he was such a good friend, I will admit there was probably some denial on my part. You know, maybe I’m really as bad as he says I am. Why would he say it to me if it weren’t true? yada yada yada

I don’t know what you’re looking for as an answer. If I still haven’t covered it, please let me know.

I’ve been there

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I worked for someone very similar to your friend, and after doing a bit of research concluded that my manager actually had undiagnosed hypomanic disorder. In his case the pathological lying finally got him fired, and I regret not sitting down with him to try to tell him he had a problem that can be helped medically.
In the case of my former manager, he frequently had what is called “pressured speech,”, that is, talking too fast. Have a look at this list — does this describe your boss/friend?
-Increased physical and mental activity and energy
-Heightened mood, exaggerated optimism and self-confidence
-Excessive irritability, aggressive behavior
-Decreased need for sleep without experiencing fatigue
-Grandiose delusions, inflated sense of self-importance
-Racing speech, racing thoughts, flight of ideas
-Impulsiveness, poor judgment, distractibility
-Reckless behavior

If so, then Bipolar or Hypomanic disorder may actually be a real reason for what is happening. Please note I said “reason,” not “excuse.” Your boss is still ethically responsible for his actions, even if there is an organic disorder rather than a character flaw that is behind the bad behavior.

If the boss has the symptoms, then you have to make a judgment call — can you help this man get help he needs, or would doing so put you in harm’s way? You are not necessarily obligated to help someone if doing so would result in harm to you. You may want to list the symptoms of hypomanic/bipolar disorder and get them to the HR department, anonymously if necessary but preferably as a person concerned about another person’s well-being.

It may turn out that your boss is simply a jerk, but if he actually has an organic disorder, you may help him get the treatment he needs and alleviate not only your own stress, but help your boss as well.

No matter what happens, when someone has been hurtful to you, you need to decide whether it’s desirable to take action or not. If not, then stick it out and try to outlast the jerk. They tend to be fast burners who wear out their welcome, but you could become a casualty. But if your gut tells you that this man needs help, you may think that there’s an obligation to do so, even at some cost to yourself.

Your call — in my friend’s case his hypomanic disorder cost him his marriage, several jobs and also part of his reckless behavior manifested in wild driving that led to accidents and wild spending that led to debt problems. I don’t know that he ever got help, and I regret that I didn’t have more courage to try to help him. Now he’s in another state, and probably continuing the same sort of destructive behavior.

Best of luck to you.

TheBaldGuy

Hypomanic Disorder

In reply to I’ve been there

He has been diagnosed with Bi-Polar and OCD. He has medication which he refuses to take. He lied to his girlfriend, she doesn’t know he’s supposed to be on meds. He gets suicidal. I’ve received many a call from his garage as he ran the car with the doors closed. I knew he was emotionally damaged from a horrendish childhood. But I had never ever seen the abusive behavior. He was always a saint. Always gentle and kind. Always willing to help, to be there. Mmmm-hmmmm . . . .

You need some MOXY

In reply to Hypomanic Disorder

I feel for your situation, and you say he attatcked you…did
other’s see this? Did you take any pictures immediately of what
he had done, because in most states it’s called BATTERY,
screaming at someone like that where they feel their well being
is in imminent danger, and using the “COMMON MAN” litmus
test, I’d say you have ONE HECK of a cause of action, you need to
exercise that, I can think off the top of my head at LEAST 3
criminal charges you could bring and a TON of civil on being
INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMTIONAL DISTRESS, LOSS OF
WAGES DUE TO THE AFOREMENTIONED, and the unquantifyable
EMOTIONAL TOLL, although nowdays they’ll use the old Learned
Hand type equation B=Pover L like they did during the famous
RAILROAD casses in the EARLY 1900s late 1800s where the
RAILROAD, being the MAIN source of getting an time from NEW
YORK to Los Angeles where protected to an extent that would
sicken anyone, but back then, they protected them, now days
were not talking about railroads, were talking about you and
your personal safety at the hands of ONE person, that you’ve
seemlingly done nothing but gone and hid…have you made a
police complaint? have you documented EVERYTHING he’s said
around you, to you, do you have ANY office workers willing to
back you up, he could be in trouble for NOT taking his
medication and you may get a summary judgement on ALL
counts if you were to sue him and that’s what I would do, FIRST
I’d make a CRIMINAL complain and STOP worrying about your
chuffin’ job, we all know he’s a sick shite who obviously cares a
PEEHOLE in a SNOWBANK for you OR your feelings or well being,
so PUT YOUR FEELINGS aside and GET MOXY, GET ICE COLD, GET
SOME WELL DESERVED JUSTICE, if you have to, carry a tiny tape
recorder with you, so if the police say, well theres nothing we
can do, and you most likely would get that piece of evidence
thrown out in court, it’s STILL may be enough to get the LEGAL
ball rolling, but the more you hide and home, the more he gets
to do what he wishes, NOT TAKE HIS MEDS, INTIMINDATE,
others, etc. YES, he has a HUGE fall coming and I’m not
understanding why your not documenting, making charges
OFFICIAL POLICE charges, this man screamed at me, I felt in
danger, that is enough right there is OTHERS SAW it for AT
LEAST BATTERY, if he put ONE FINGER ON YOU WHILES
SCREAMING that’s assult, so you may have him on assult and
battery instantly, but faith without WORKS IS DEAD, meaning
don’t sit around and think about HOW HORRIBLE he’s treated
you, stop the poor me’s and get him so mad he attacks you in
front of EVERYONE, then, stand up, slowly walk over the phone,
call 911 and tell the operator, “I’D LIKE TO REPORT AN ATTACK
ON MY PERSON BY MY BOSS, HE JUST..A, B, C, D, and you’re
people there will back you up, then they’ll arrest him, if not, get
a restraining order, DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO AND STOP
WORRYING ABOUT THE JOB..which is more important, YOUR
WELL BEING and ability to function, which soundslike it’s been
taken away, so you have ONE HELL of a CIVIL LAWSUITE with so
many causes of action I can’t even begin to list them all, but it’s
sounds like he’s a ragaholic too, on top of everything else, with a
naracassitic personality disorder, a social dysfunction disorder,
and he could even be BOARDLINE personality disorder, and if
thats the case I’d DEFINATELY stay away from the walking SHITE,
but YOU NEED TO START GROWING A PAIR AND DO SOMETHING
ABOUT THIS OR HE’ll JUST CONITUE ON BEFORE HE REALLY
HURTS SOMEONE when it could have been prevented, if you
don’t feel up to doing it, you give me his number,and I’ll talk to
the PRICK, OR I’ll call the chuffin’ police for you…OKAY? HANG
TOUGH, but GET UGLY, GET DOWNRIGHT MEAN, when he goes
off one you KICK HIM SQUARE IN THE JEWElS and LET THE POLICE
KNOW HE WAS SCREAMING AT ME, it’s a pattern that’s been
going on for x amount of time, and I thought he was going to hit
me he got so mad so I took action. TAKE SOME ACTION…FAITH
WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD MY LUV, remember that…you can’;t
just sit around and let this stew, the BEST WAY to go about with
is one of two ways, either put him on notice by obrtaining a
RESTRAININGN ORDER. WEAR A TINY TAPE RECORDER AT ALL
TIMES, TRY TO FIND OUT WHAT PUSHES HIS BUTTONS AND GET
HIM TO GO OFF ON YOU IN A PUBLIC PLACE AND THEN MY
DEAR, YOU’ve GOT HIM, LOCK STOCK AND BARREL, OCD/
BiPOLAR Sounds like a complete mis diagnois, it’s soundslike he
has RAGE PROBLEMS, UNCONTROLLABLE EMOTIONS and some
kindof anti social disorder, but there are many, many, many
things you can do without just sitting there and thinking about
it…OKAY LUV..you’re gonna be fine, but STOP LETTING HIM DO
THIS…lest you’re part of the problem too….YOU KNOW?? I’m not
saying you are, but it sounds like you’ve done absolutely nothing
with MEAT on it, just some gestures. DO you have a lawyer, GET
ONE…IMMEDIATELY, start a verbal record of what’s going on as
well as a documented one, and you’ll eventually NOT have to
kick him in his shorites, the bloke will do that to himslef, and
NEVER sink to his level of yelling back, etc WALK AWAY, don’t
fight back, let him swing at you in front of people and keep a
disposable camera nearby so you can take picutres IMMEDIATY
as the bruise forms and HE WILL GO TO JAIL, then ONCE HE’S
CONVICTED IN CRIMINAL COURT, you can take him to CIVIL
COURT, there is NOT double indeminity for that me love…also
remember too, that you’re dealing with a sick, appearently
DANGEROUS man, so BE CAREFUL, but you must do something,
and as I siad, I’ll report him FOR YOU if your to scared, etc.
GOOD LUCK LUV, you sound like a kind and decent human being
how neesds some TRUE happiness ata job you love so therein
lies yet ANOTHER cause of action….he’s keeping you from your
AMENDMENT RIGHTS for the pursuit of LIBERTY, JUSTICE and
HAPPINESS, etc., as nauseum

Bullying at it’s Worst

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Hi YOu are clearly being bullied similar to my situation a year ago – I too loved my joib enjoyed it and in fact was praised for the work I had done but bully boss was so Bad on my way to work I turned round at the end of the road and drove home – I have never returned – I received compensation and apology – but I have lost pension Job and prospects of re employement – go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/workbully-support/

there are plenty who can help you through this trauma

Re: Bullying at it’s worst

In reply to Bullying at it’s Worst

It seems to me that the statements “I love my job” and “I’m treated badly at work” are intellectual contradictions to each other.

I’ve also worked for a nut

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

For four years I worked for a very difficult manager. He had the following characteristics.

a) Excellent memory. You could not get anything past this guy. E-mails that were years old were recalled in seconds! Very un-nerving.
b) Very bad temper. There were times when I though he would actually hit me!
c) As insecure as hell. I am sure he felt that I was a threat to his own position.

I think the third point is the most important. Whenever something did go right(as it normally did) he would crawl all over it to find the slightest faults and would report them in vicious e-mails(His favourite form of communication, we sat 10 feet apart!)

Looking back on it now why did I not leave?
The answers was simple, the job market was terrible and I would not get the same pay(I did look).

Why did I not hit back(verbally)?
The answer to this is more complex. I was aware that things could really get out of hand. Also, I could not cope with his ability to quote six month old e-mails(on the spot). Finally I could have done something very stupid and ended up with a police record!

Somehow I kept it all together until he left one year ago.

I’m not sure what the fallout has had on my career. It was obviously not helpful. Working with someone who always tries to catch you out does not help your confidence. I will soon find out, being made redundant in a few months!

Maybe your manager is just one of these insecure nuts. Probably smoked too much of the weed in his youth.

Smoked

In reply to I’ve also worked for a nut

Not did —- does now.

More Than BiPolar – A Sociopath

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I know several people who are BiPolar. Most of these individuals are quite mild-mannered and personable.
BiPolar disorder is a mood disorder. BiPolar disorder is chronic and has no cure. BiPolar disorder has a constellation of symptoms. It can only be diagnosed by a competent therapist usually in a residential setting because of the array of symptoms. However, it is controlable with medication and therapy.

The manager in this discussion seems to exhibit sociopathic tendencies which are beyond garden variety manic-depressive suffers (bipolar disorder).

There is no way to defend yourself against the rages and triades of a sociopath. You must remove yourself from his domain. Transfer, get another job, these are your only defenses. Obviously, if this individual is the tyrant you say, and senior management has not reined him in, they either are enamored of him or are intimidated themselves. Why would you even want to remain in the presence of such a predator?

GrizzledITer

I’m in the same boat, here’s what I have done.

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I too have a boss that lies, he values no one and if he could, would hook up fiber to his brain and try to single handedly run IT by him self. My boss does keep users out of the loop, to make them look dumb and him look smart.
First of all, any boss like this eventually will have to deal with the natural consequences of his unethical and possibley illeagal actions. My problem is that I don’t have the patience to wait for nature to take its course.

I have documented his activitites but on a pda that does not sink to any company machine. This way he can’t touch my files. I have turned in a printed documentation to HR in person, bypassing all electronic transmission that he could intercept. After getting threats of being fired, I calmly remind him that it is he that is breaking the law and if he would like to turn this into a law suite, I am more than ready. I also remind him of a managers job description. Nowhere does it say that the managers is the Dictator of IT. I also recommended to him to read the book “5 Dysfunctions of a team”. It is quite good and describes our problems to the letter. I catch him in a lie or question his Facts in a more public setting, when there are wittnesses. That way, other people see who the real “bad guy” is.
This has been very hard. I am not always as successful as I want to be. It has taken so far, over a year and a half. But you know what, it is working. Very slowly, but surely I have seen a difference. His communication with me and keeping me in the loop has improved. I still don’t trust him, but he knows that if he gives me any bull, I will challenge him on it.
There have been times that I have wanted to quit so bad, just to get away from him that I have considered changing careers!
In the end though, he will either finally be fired or he will loose his entire staff, which we have a 58% turnover rate because of him alone. Either way, he is loosing. I may not be around to see the final defeat, but he is loosing.

HE IS NO FRIEND!

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

WHAT A HAND FULL!
IF YOU HAVE A PERSONAL PDA PUT YPUR NOTES IN IT THIN SEND THIM TO YOUR HR PERSON FROM A OFF SITE NETWORK.
KEEP AS MUCH DOCUMENTED OR RECORED HIS RANTS ON A TAPE RECORDER (YOU CAN GET ONE TO PUT IN YOUR POCKET OR PURSE AND THE SMALL ONES HAVE VOX SO YOU DON’T HAVE TO PUSH A BUTTON.)
THIS SOUNDS LIKE A HOSTALE WORK PLACE AND SHOULD NOT BE TOLRATED!
IF YOUR HR DEPARTMENT WON’T GET RID OF THE PROBLEM CALL YOUR STATE A.G.’S OFFICE OR A LAWYER
SOME STATES HAVE STRONG LAWS AGANST THIES TYPE OF ACTIONS AT THE WORK PLACE.

Dangerous Advise

In reply to HE IS NO FRIEND!

To record someone without there knowledge is against the law. I have experienced this type of a situation. In frustration I went over the deep end and was nearly fired. Once I consulted a lawyer and learned my rights, and what not to do (secretly record converation) things quickly turned around. Sometimes the only way to get unreasonable people to listen is through a lawyer. They are expensive, but in my experience they are worth it. You do have rights and one of them is not to be abused. And the icing on the cake, legally no one can do anything to you for being wrong. This gives mnanagement an opportunity to rectify the situation without being wrong. They can say it was all a misinterpretation on your part but if it continues, they are on the hook now and not you. Escalate! If it takes an e-mail to your boss’s boss’s boss with a cc to your boss’s boss, eventually someone will listen. Managers are not suseptable to lawsuits but businesses are. Sooner or later you may have to copy the VP of HR but if you are right and this guy is as blatant as you say, 99% chance you will prevail.

Been There, Done That

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Boy, does this topic sound familiar with a recent (former) boss. He tried many of the exploits you mentioned.

One day we took a ride in his car to visit a client site. He alluded to my job performance based on his perception.

I responded with two questions – do you want me to relinquish my position (in management)? Are you asking me to resign? No to both, “It’s YOUR decision”.

At that point I chose to end my interaction to this topic during the remainder of the “ride to the client”.

Ultimately he ended up frustrated, he said “I wish I could get in your head to know what you are thinking”.

Needless to say he got “beat” at his own game because I chose not to be a participant.

He pretty much left me alone for the remainder of his time with the company and he ultimately imploded.

Another Thought

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

StressedAndMad – don’t know whether or not you’ll still be reading this post (since you’re no longer employed), but something occurred to me while reading through the threads. Perhaps the firm has not (and refuses) to fire him because they are afraid of facing a lawsuit from HIM because he has been diagnosed BPD/OCD. See if you can find out if he’s treated others the same. As you can see from a lot of the other posts, an awful lot of people would just put up with it for fear of getting fired. If you were to start a wrongful termination suit, you may find some who are willing to testify against this guy. Best of luck to you!

GET OUT!

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I had a similar experience and I can tell you it’s not worth it – doesn’t matter if you are right and he is wrong. In a situation where your mental well being is on the line, it is better to cut your losses – no job is worth it. Seek professional help to get past the anger/betrayal/depression if needed, and then move on. I let my abusive “(former)friend turned boss” get the best of me until she was able to bring in a “consultant” that sabotaged my systems – guess who got fired? I’m still living this due to the pending lawsuit – you should see the evidence I have. However, I will never be the same. I should have left at the first signs of discord. Never let someone else control your life. I’ve learned my lesson and you should too.

This should help you

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

If one is going to survive with this madman, you need to know how to live with his mental illness. Here are four books I would suggest that you get, read and keep as references:

The Bipolar Disorder Survival Guide, ISBN: 1572305258, $13.57 on Amazon.com.

Surviving Manic Depression, ISBN: 0465086632, $11.49 on Amazon.com’s book sellers network.

Bipolar Disorder for Dummies, ISBN: 0764584510, $13.59 on Amazon.com.

Obsessive Compulsive Disorders: The Facts, ISBN: 0192628607, $6.18 on Amazon.com’s book sellers network.

If you’re going to live with this madman, you might as well become well versed with his illness. At least, these books do give constructive guides on how to handle such a person in your life. You might also want to cite specific bipolar/OCD incidents in your future complaints to HR, so they get an idea that this man needs to be removed from managerial duties because of his illnesses.

Just my two cents. I wish you the very best in your future battles and victory in the end! Remember, you are not the one with the illness. You are okay. He is not.

Stop being a victim.

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I’m sorry but you lost me when you got to stress leave. A typical american solution for when you are upset at your job.

You sound like you have been playing the victim your whole life. You should stop whinning like a little girl. Everyone is afraid for their job at one point or another, and everyone has worked for/with an asshole. If you are diligent for your company I see no reason that you would have to protect yourself from him. If he is just plain abusive, get a spine (oh yea I forgot, stress leave) and bring his behavior out in the light, confront him in front of others about it. Stop it with the “documenting andtrying to get it off premises” crap. I would fire you for that alone.

In the end, when you finally decide to stand on your own two feet, and if you are talented and qualified you will have no trouble finding a new, more rewarding job.

But not while your knees are clattering together and you are on stress leave.
Good luck.

Sress, documenatation and taping

In reply to Stop being a victim.

Stupid person does not understand the problem. Pressure and stress are opposite ends of the same teeter-totter. I found that out the hard way.

I worked for a “matrix” corporation, where your jobs came from the horizontal line of ‘bosses’, and your performance came from the vertical. The VP of Operations became my horizontal boss, and my vertical boss came under me for my mission. THAT means STRESS! Think about having to tell your boss what to do next, knowing he will rate your performance at review time.

Add to that you are now taking over some of the work that the HEAD engineer was responsible for. He would offer advice, but only give you 90% of the information. The last 10% was always hidden so he could come forth near the end of the project, and look really good (and you look stupid, or bad). Sometimes God smiles on you!

The day came when the head engineer went into the VP and told him I could never complete the project. It was impossible to do with the information I was working with (that he had provided), and that 9 months of wasted money would show up in the VP’s budget, and he would see that everyone knew about it if the VP didn’t give him the project. He didn’t know that I had told the VP that morning that the solution would be on his desk that afternoon, as my team had solved it. I had told the VP that the information from the head engineer had been erroneous, and had slowed us down, then showed him where (my documentation). Looked good until review time. But for that go-round, I had succeeded.

After that, I could do not wrong as far as the VP was concerned, but my hair had gone from dark to white. STRESS! And I knew the chief engineer and I were never going to be friends. The VP left for another job, overseas, and my days were numbered.

My solution? I work contract IT now. Still have pressure (due dates, amount of work, resources, etc.), but no stress. Since my networks NEVER go down, my reputation is my own. But sabotage, lies, continual put-downs, and the like do take a toll. Documentation does not hurt to have around, even if it is not needed. So write down every meeting as accurately detailed as you can possiblely make it. Copy it onto your own CD, floppy disk, or whatever, and keep it at home. Work notes are part of your job, so keep a copy on your workstation, without any accusations. I keep another copy encoded on my workstation, as well. And my machine is always on the backup list! Might as well use the appropriate resources to do the right thing within the company, right? Right??

And if you’re really worried (paranoid) about you files being altered, which DOES happen via some bosses, open an account under a dummy name on another machine (servers work well) and keep a copy there, too.

And if you used a tape recorder to assure accuracy, then remove the tape, then what? Oh, BTW, ONCE (only) tell everyone that you always tape ALL conversations for accuracy during transscription. Then, they have been told about it, and cannot complain. Unless they specifically ask you to stop the recording, which you never do, you are covered in court.

Get More Mad and Unstresed

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Look, You have a problem with your superior who claims to be your friend. He’s all oer your A$$ for some reason. Just grow up and get another job. Leave this bozo to hang himself. You don’t deserve to be mistreated in the workplace. All states have laws concerning work place abuse. If you even think you have a legal case, go seek legal advice from a qualified counselor (lawyer).
If you can’t get to your “documentation” due to being locked out, document that as well.(I guess you didn’t do any backups or hard copies?) A court ordered search warrant might be issued if criminal wrong doing is evident. (check your local laws). Bottom line is: Take the fight to the front line, See HIS superior. If you don’t get any satisfaction from that action, pursure the legal angle)
Good Luck,
Semper Fi!

Dealing with a bully

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Take a look at this website – it has great advice for dealing with people like your boss.
http://www.bullyonline.org

Document

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Yeah – keep up the documentation, the more the merrier – use a web mail account to get it off-site asap.

Web mail is such a wonderful tool – I had this problem too, but our boss wasn’t swift enough to get into my e-mail. Well, even if she did, all the critical stuff was stored in Web Mail anyway. If you can trust another tech or someone who’s in the same shoes as you – get them to document too – and keep their info in web mail too.

After you get enough info – talk to HR, and make sure they know it’s a confidential meeting you need with them. Bring the docs and I’d think they would deal with this accordingly – if not, I’m sure they’ll get sued soon enough.

Microscopic penis syndrome

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

It?s easy for me to say because I am a large man that can and will take ?it? from anyone, but I wouldn?t be afraid of anyone. If he screams at you, stand your ground. Tell him if he wants to take a swing at you to go ahead because he?ll be the one who regrets it. People like your boss obviously suffer from microscopic penis syndrome and they take it out on the rest of the world. Every time he blows his lid just picture his small dick, or get a small digital recorder and stick in you pocket and wait. Then he can lie all he wants but you will have the proof. Good luck! By the way, he?s no friend if he treats you like that.

Leave…

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Why stick around? If he is not going anywhere soon then take yourself to a new place. Life is to short to be stuck working with jerks like that.

Option number 2 is to take him out back and settle it with bare nuckle boxing since he is your friend. Just make sure you can take him though.

you are talented ,you have fine skill, move on

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

hello
understand yourself
belive in yourself,

you can conquer more and more ,
you have talent,skill,
you can get more loving friends, any where you go
because you have a good personality
belive in yourself,
belive in yourself,
belive in yourself,
belive in yourself,

so

there are good places on earth that will give you
satisfaction when working

only you have to do is

find the right place for you

cheers and best luck

options

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

After my former employ lost a contract,I was recruited by the”competition” to be their transportation manager(I followed the work).My supervisor was an intolerant moron. My former employer gladly took me back w/shorter hours,better pay & a benefits pkg.There’s always options. JK

Actions Stressed and Mad Should Take

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I, too, was in your unenviable position. Sauve qui peut – not only save yourself but run. First, even reduced pay under better circumstances is better than this job. Secondly, it will only get worse, and since you are, and will be, on the losing end, end it surgically now. I tried to save the friend/boss relationship for 10 years, knowing good and well it would end badly. And it did. Send a nice, short “I resign” letter and go on with your life.

Offsite mail

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

If you learn nothing else from this, ALWAYS keep your evidence emails offsite in your personal email. That gives you full control, even if you’re locked out of the network or the premises, and your superiors won’t be able to snoop.

Why????

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

If your any good at what you do, why are you still there? Leave the office politics bull**** out of the server room and act like a professional. As your supervisor he should be able to get into all of your files, etc…. and your childish games of trying to get him into trouble and talking about him behind his back have given him reason to do just that.

Do yourself a favor and move on. I’ve never read anything as pathetic as your submission. You’ve stayed at a job that has made you ill, working for someone that you call “friend” even though he treats you lower than dirt. Your problems aren’t with him, they’re with you.

Stressed? Why?

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but stress is self imposed and cannot be caused by any one thing or person. It is simply a result of you not being able to handle the situation. I had a boss that was worse than yours. In addition to the things you describe he would slam auto doors so hard the windows would break and put his foot through a brand new paneled wall in a fit of anger at me. He once through a plate of food at me at a breakfast. It was so bad that his assistant and I would go hide out together, drink coffee, smoke and joke. Never felt stressed once in the 3 years I worked for this idiot. Would I have liked to have left, sure, but I was tied into a contract. I outlasted him and had many laughs at his expense, some to his face. Why? Simply because I stood up to him, nose to nose, and told him what an idiot he was, in just as loud a voice as he was using to me. From then on I owned the situation, not him. I had no one to go running to and complain or file a complaint so I handled it the only way I have ever handled adversity, head on. I suggest you quit feeling sorry for yourself, get back to work, and handle it.

Stressed? Why?

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but stress is self imposed and cannot be caused by any one thing or person. It is simply a result of you not being able to handle the situation. I had a boss that was worse than yours. In addition to the things you describe he would slam auto doors so hard the windows would break and put his foot through a brand new paneled wall in a fit of anger at me. He once through a plate of food at me at a breakfast. It was so bad that his assistant and I would go hide out together, drink coffee, smoke and joke. Never felt stressed once in the 3 years I worked for this idiot. Would I have liked to have left, sure, but I was tied into a contract. I outlasted him and had many laughs at his expense, some to his face. Why? Simply because I stood up to him, nose to nose, and told him what an idiot he was, in just as loud a voice as he was using to me. From then on I owned the situation, not him. I had no one to go running to and complain or file a complaint so I handled it the only way I have ever handled adversity, head on. I suggest you quit feeling sorry for yourself, get back to work, and handle it.

Nothing like an old fashioned beating…

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Get all the techs and yourself together to buy some black clothes and ski masks.

Make sure everyone has left work before this a$$hole one day.

Don’t say a word as you all acost him in the parking garage/lot. Leave note saying this will happen numerous more times at random times and places until he resigns.

guaranteed that prick will be gone within a month.

A Nice Fantasy, BUT this is harrassment!

In reply to Nothing like an old fashioned beating…

This is very risky and can get the victim into trouble with the police and face a discharge for in appropriate behavior on company premises.

Re: Nothing like an old fashioned beating…

In reply to Nothing like an old fashioned beating…

Some of these post just don’t belong here. Advocating a criminal act is absolutely rediculous.

A Friend In Deed…

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Next time he gets in your face, slap him and yell, “Never touch a woman there, you cretin!” Then file a sexual harrassment suit.

On a more serious note, why do you continue to call him a “friend”? He obviously isn’t and by doing so you simply make yourself a victim and illicit a form of sympathy for him within yourself.

Re: A Friend in Deed

In reply to A Friend In Deed…

I’m sure you think that is a good idea… until it happens to you, then you’ll be wondering why it’s so easy for someone to file a frivolous claim against you which you’re obligated to defend yourself. It’s times like this that make me lose all faith in humanity!

Keep Healthy and continue to work

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Thats a tough situation that you are in, now you have to put in a balance what is best for you, your health or that job? I know im being a bit harsh but you can start at least to look for a new job while you still have a leave and if you return just tell yourself that your doing the best at what your doing and try to mantain a positive actitud.

At times i know that is dificult but if you have friends your friends will support you thru your living hell. At least from my experience thats what has help thur those hell forsaken boss
periods of stress.

I work with my friend… So I know :-)

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Of course I know that it is a different kind of feeling to work with a friend than merely being a friend. Given a chance, I would keep personal friendship and official relationship separate. But sometimes it is not in our control. Our current personal friends may become our future work relationship.

I guess it has both positives and negatives.
Since you know him for a long time and have been friends, if think you may want to invite him home or invite him to a restaurant or something… Talk about good old stuff, how you value your friendship with him and also explain how the current situation affects you. Then you should directly ask him if there is anything that is not correct with you that makes him act bad. May be it’s you who has some habit / character that is not liked by your friend and hence the clash.
Talking in depth clears most of the problems. Good Luck 🙂

You Must Leave

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I agree with the others who have stated you must leave that job immediately. There is no job on the planet that is worth sacrificing your health or sanity for. This guy sounds like a complete moron and you cannot win with someone like that. Whatever you do will come back to bite you in the A$$. Go out and get a new job ASAP.

Transfer Out (Best) – or Get Another Job

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I just went through a similar situation, except my boss was the cold, calculating, ultra-controlling, ultra passive-agressive type. He feared conflict of any kind in the office (see The Five Dysfunctions of a Team), especially any conflict in meetings where he was present. Meetings for him were exercises in him talking and the rest of us listening to his unilateral decisions. However, as a project manager and manager over twelve employees (P/As), I know that some measure of debate and questionning has to exist in a healthy office environment, for no other reason than employees getting a chance to have their opinions heard. Besides, the collective opinion of the group is usually better than unilateral decision making, especially in ITS because of the skillset mix and range of experience that comes into play. Don’t get me wrong. As a manager, I’m not advocating some type of democratic, shared governance model in the office, because the manager is ultimately responsible for the decisions made. I’m simply saying a healty team allows and even encourages discussion and debate.

When I found out my manager (CIO) was cutting me out of the ERP project that I’d waited seven years for (to gain the experience on), I did the next best thing (probably the BEST thing) :

I joined HR (!!) as the project manager over their ERP module. The benefits are: my stress level is dropping every minute because I am no longer responsible for the whole universe of systems, only ONE module; and now my boss (VP of HR) carries a bigger stick than my old bosses-boss.

The one caveat to this strategy is that one must lay the groundwork for an internal transfer by taking care of your relationships throughout the organization vis-a-vis your customers. If they respect you and your work, then doors will open.

See, you don’t have to quit!

If he says the sky is green, it’s green…

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I once had a similar boss. Prior to him taking over our department, we asked the guys already under him how he was to work for. They stated if you go outside and look up and see a blue sky the same one you see all the time and is blue each time, then he comes out an says it’s green, IT’S GREEN. I once had an hour long argument on if you could hot swap the SCSI tape drives we had. I knew we couldn’t and knew someone had tried in the past and fried the drive. However he kept insisting, until he finally realized he had SCSI II at home not I and he could hot swap at home. I was a specialist on one critical process and had just started training coworkers on the process when we had a problem with a multimillion dollar customer reading DAT tapes we created. After months of trying, there was a huge teleconference trying to hash out the problem. He flat out lied in front of approximately 30 people, and I was the only one that could call him on it. Knowing him, I knew I would be gone the next day. So I started keeping a journal of all he did. Then he came after me with a vengeance when I question something he did and actually tried to get me fired for not shaving everyday. I was in HR at least twice a week trying to get this guy off my back. Sadly the Good Ole’ Boy network had his back and it looked like I was heading to the unemployment line. Then he handed me the bullet on a silver platter to take him down once and for all. In front of myself and a coworker he made a statement connect a female’s coworkers reaction to her special time of the month. Again they tried to brush it under the carpet. They didn’t do anything until I told the female coworker what he had said. Within a week he was asked to find another position in a different facility or resign. He resigned. Document everything, become a common face in HR and pull him into HR and tell him in front of witnesses he needs to stop what he’s doing. Then talk to a lawyer.

Have courage

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Lots of Bipolar folks are alcoholics, so by him a beer:) no just kidding…

You need to confront him like a man. say” Bob’ We have been friends for years if you can’t treat me with the same respect I give you then I cant work with you, I’ll always be your friend but you need to take your medication, and or get some help. If you are in dinial and wont seek help then I will see you later.

So Basically if you don’t confront him you are being an enabler to his disease and you will suffer worse than him. life is too short my friend.

Flynn Phillips
Retired Senior Chief Hospital Corspman

Use The HR System And A Pencil

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

First, to all of those “move-on” responses to this post: Why should StressedAndMad move on? He obviously wishes to remain employed by the company or he wouldn’t be so stressed out. If you’ve never personally experienced what it is like to work with, or (especially) for, someone who is mentally ill it is difficult to understand exactly how their sickness impacts you (your job performance, mental health and emotional health).

Bosses like the one StressedAndMad is dealing with can be dangerous. This one in particular, because he has a finger in both the business and the personal pie. I assume therein lies the reason for StressedAndMad’s unwillingness to take the hard road with this. Let me make something perfectly clear – you don’t owe a guy like this (friend or not) ANYthing.

The solution to this problem is an arduous journey down the human resources path. The only way to protect yourself from a mentally ill superior is to follow every single HR protocol required to have him removed from any position of authority over others.

Whatever (personal dirt) you think the guy has on you that may be detrimental to your job security is moot. Keep your nose clean now, follow EVERY company rule, work the HR system and get rid of him. For your own sake and the sake of everyone else. AND GET BACK TO WORK!!! Your back IS unprotected and the longer you’re gone the more webs your boss gets to spin in your absence.

I have seen first class office bullies (mentally ill and otherwise) taken down simply by utilizing every positive aspect of the same system that they are abusing to document and eliminate that abuse. Just because he has higher admin priveledges than you doesn’t mean you can’t document what going on. Print what you can and put it in your pocket or USE A PENCIL. Eventually you’ll have enough amunition to cut a proverbial hamstring. When that happens you will find that the more he’s backed against a wall with his superiors the more HE helps your case. His well crafted facade will crumble and he’ll show himself for the manipulator he is. He’s a lot more scared of having his superiors discover that he’s a fraud than you are of any retribution he might be able to offer. I promise.

Hang tough, be patient and let the HR system become your best friend.

HR is a joke

In reply to Use The HR System And A Pencil

I worked for a boss similar to the one described in the first post and when I went to HR I was open, honest, and did everything that was asked of me. Then later I find out everything I told “HR” (a dept. of one btw) was repeated to my boss. How do I know? Becuase I was getting screamed (yes, screamed) at for saying what I said. So much for privacy.. Also, after some good old fashoned gum-shoe work. I discovered that they were work buddies. Still I figured if I did exactly as I was told and followed procedure everything would be ok.

My position was terminiated. Not me.. my “position”. Two months before this I was called into the boss’es office and lo-and behold HR was the wing(wo)man, jotting down everthing that was said while I’m being told I am the one with the problem. My only problem is being good at what I do.

The fish rots from the head folks, all us working stiffs can do is 1) Go elsewhere and hope its better than it was or 2) Start your own company and not have to take any one’s ****.

I got lucky and found a much better place to work that is closer to home and pays the same… I am however prusing option 2 becuase after my last experence I will NEVER go back to that situation again. No job is worth my own wellbeing.

-Good Luck

Re: Use The HR System And a Pencil

In reply to Use The HR System And A Pencil

You are free to assume all you like, but you probably shouldn’t be offering opinions/suggestions based on your assumptions. You don’t know how far off the mark they may be, and it is infinitely wiser to only comment on the facts that have been presented.

As for StressedansMad staying or leaving, there are other good jobs out there the “she” may like just as much or more. Sticking around for that reason is just a reason to not take any action when she should.

Only one solution

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

The only solution is for you to get out of there while you are still alive. I grew up with a brother like that and also worked for him. People like that are great when just a friend. But once they become more involved, its all over. It is impossible to ‘learn to live with it’. If he has not been fired yet, he will never be. Your only choice is to leave. No matter how much you like the work, to survive, you must leave.

Good luck!

Learn to be an Amoeba

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Bozos like this can be their own undoing. And sometimes they last forever. Frankly, after 12 jobs in 20 years, I have held my first job for 5 years. The overwhelming number of prior jobs that I have left have been because the boss was a jerk. As for the people part, I have had jobs where I could elected the boss, yet could never “work” my way into it. I have held jobs where people thought I was the boss, because the boss was hiding “under the desk” and I did everything. A couple of the most joyous moments are when one firm, where the boss was “my friend”, that fired me was out of business within a year. He has been thru three jobs since, two of which he was terminated from. Thank them for getting me to leave early. With another “jerk” boss, I waited until the workload became overwhelming for two people, of which she was one, however unhelpful and unknowledgeable she was. A month later, she was terminated, and hasn’t been in management since. Unusual for middle-management to be terminated because they are usually backed up by upper management, right or wrong.

Management will make more of a commitment to keep your boss than you. Unless your case is legally watertight, and you don’t mind being known in town as the “person who sued that company”, you’ll be happier in the long run to change jobs.

People behave more reprehensibly than your boss: they can be drug smugglers, murderers, and presidential advisors. You’re boss is small potatoes compared to these jerks.

Give 2 weeks notice in early in December, save up, and take the holidays off. You deserve it.

Remember: it’s only a job! Concentrate on the more important things: your life, your family, your spirituality if so inclined, and outside interests. If you’ve come this far, you can always go further.

Re: Learn to be an Amoeba

In reply to Learn to be an Amoeba

12 jobs in 20 years and the majority of your bosses were “jerks?” That’s a little unusual and statistically questionable. There is only one common denominator in each job you’ve held.

Umm…

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

After much reading, and wading through the muck, I’m sorry you were fired.

Here’s what’s really bothering me… As we are IT people, why did nobody suggest getting her information off of backups? Offsite storage of information is one thing, and wonderful in hindsight, but the big problem was getting to the information already stored. Moot now, but there none-the-less.

Files

In reply to Umm…

The day I was fired, I made a big deal about my files. The HR lady was very sympathetic, as the owner, not her, determines company policy. Anyway, she made sure that one of my fellow techs copied all of my files off to CD for me. And he let me know if he missed anything, to let him know. As he’s the keeper of the backups, and is one of my ex-boss’ less abused victims, I’m no longer worried about my files disappearing.

Re: Files

In reply to Files

Your friend put himself at risk of legal action. Any work you do using company resources belongs to the company. Had he been found out, he could have been charged with stealing company resources. I always recommend that anyone that has files that they need to ensure they have control over do so from the beginning… not after the fact.

Re: Umm…

In reply to Umm…

As you stated, it is a little late, but assuming that her boss could lock her out would at least suggest that he would also have the power to prevent her from accessing backups. Her mistake was in using company resources and then not keeping a copy of her .pst file.

Bi-Polar OCD Boss

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

You must find another job! This is another case of a person, who should have never been even considered for a manager’s position! A strong IT manager always observes the number one rule: Let your technicians be technicians! This person has no integrity!

Make a decision

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

This is a terrible situation. I’m so upset for you just reading this. I don’t care how much you love your job. No job is worth putting up with this type of abuse. Is he treating everyone else like this? Have you spoken to H/R about this? How ’bout his boss? I think you need to make a decision about what your plan of action is so that you don’t feel so powerless. You health and mental well being is important! What’s your plan of action?

You’re not a psychiatrist

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Get off the boat. This kind of sick relationship will bring to nowhere but to the mental illness yard. You’re not a psychiatrist!!! The man needs help from professional therapist. He’s really got a cronic problem related to workplace behavior and (lack of) mental health. Find yourself another job while you still have your mind in shape. But remember: mental illness is as contagious as TB –you get from the air, through your ears. Good luck!

To StressedAndMad

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I was under close to the same thing that you are under now. I almost lost my life due to it also. I became so stressed out that I was close to cardiac arest and the Doctor had me taken off work.

The Boss that was doing this to me was also doing this to others, he went as far as to get into records and getting their personal info and calling the phone company and having the familys home phone turned off and that is just for starters. Setting them up buy putting leagle drugs that where not theres into someones locker and then having an inspection by the police I saved two from jail time by catching this on my secruity . This went on for years and was due to The Boss covering up his stealing from the Company Oh and about lies well now I know he was not the best in the U.S . He was always thinking he was caught, and planning ways to blame it on others.
My advice as one who went through this is get leagal help NOW. And not wait one more day as you don not know as I did not know other things he had done and said , This way you can recover losses that you will incure by the loss of the Job. Also I found that the companys Heads Where very helpfull and did make life better after they had inspected the charges and found that they where going to be liable for other things he had done.
These can be far reaching and not only apply to you , although you sure feel like you are the brunt of the issue. I wish I had time to speak to you one on one about this as I do know what you are going through. But do not give up because if you do he can and will make life very hard on you as you try to get another job.
And you will stop him in his track with leagle help. Our jobs depend on good job Ref, this you will need and will not be able to get if you just walk away. I now 5 years past was called by my former Company and now run the whole show 🙂 . And I even send a note and gift to him each Christmas as I do not want him to think he is all alone while he spends the next 28 years in Prison.

This guy wants U!

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I’m a guy….
I know how we are…
It’s got nuthing 2 do wif/Tech stuff…just a smoke-screen…I apologize for being an asshole….butt someone has to tell U …He’s trying to control U…& he will as long as UR stupid…& everythang I C says U R…Sorry..butt the truth hurts…

& Really, Didn’t U C this cumming?

Sorta there – not quite on the mark –

In reply to This guy wants U!

You’re not stupid, StressedAndMad…you allowed yourself to be in a position of semi-dependency on this man, and then he did everything he could to manipulate you into thinking you were completely dependent on him.

A couple or three points in my humble opinon –
1) Just walk away. If you go into a big legal battle or moral battle with this guy, he still has a hold on you. You can find other work. You’re not up to this, and you’re not going to get even or make him miserable.
2) You will run into hotheads in the workplace. They’re not necessarily controllers. You need to give yourself time to regroup so what you went through doesn’t color every future working relationship.
3) Guard your emotions very closely at work. Thin or thick skin, you’ve got to keep control. Even the best of the “good” guys will go nuts if you go crying on them. Excuse yourself if you have to, but do not cry in front of your coworkers. If you’re going to work in a male-oriented environment, you have to respect their comfort levels – and most guys can’t handle the crying. Those that can – will think less of you for it. Learn how to get mad instead of crying. Pinch yourself. Do whatever. It can be done. And…this applies for any workplace, not just the IT world.
4) You know what to watch for now. Keep your eyes open, and maintain a position of strength and independence rather than vulnerability from now on. Those who are looking to capitalize on someone’s vulnerability will pick up on your present state. Don’t be too anxious to let someone else take you under their wing…because it can become “under their thumb” instead.

This guy wants U!

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I’m a guy….Friend my ass….
I know how we are…
It’s got nuthing 2 do wif/Tech stuff…just a smoke-screen…I apologize for being an asshole….butt someone has to tell U …He’s trying to control U…& he will as long as UR stupid…& everythang I C says U R…Sorry..butt the truth hurts…

& Really, Didn’t U C this cumming?

This guy wants U!

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I’m a guy….Friend my ass….
I know how we are…
It’s got nuthing 2 do wif/Tech stuff…just a smoke-screen…I apologize for being an asshole….butt someone has to tell U …He’s trying to control U…& he will as long as UR stupid…& everythang I C says U R…Sorry..butt the truth hurts…

& Really, Didn’t U C this cumming?
Just Tryin tah hep – AC

update your resume

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I have nothing near what you are going through, all i have is new coworker being gung ho about everything and changing whats not broken. Also being arrogant on top of it all. As my husband tells me all the time “update your resume”.

*Chuckle*

In reply to update your resume

Your husband sounds an awful lot like my feet-on-the-ground very-common-sense boyfriend!!

I’m trying to think of my reason for not being there for my newly updated resume. I don’t think “my ex-boss was a nut-case” will go over well. LOL

Don’t put reasons for leaving in a resume

In reply to *Chuckle*

A resume is a deeply flawed instrument under the best of circumstances, but its sole purpose is to document the facts of your career and accomplishments. Name, rank, and serial number…that’s all.

What you SHOULD do is prepare a very short (ten second) response to the inevitable interview question, “Why did you leave your last job?”. Less is more in this case. The specifics are no one’s business but yours, and your best bet is to answer the question quickly but vaguely and move on. You’re in an interview to get a new job, not explain why the last one didn’t work out.

“My previous employer and I disagreed on professional direction.”

“Fundamental strategic differences created an inconsistency in procedural direction.”

Keep it short and use a lot of big words that sound meaningful but say nothing. Most interviewers will nod wisely and not pursue it, and those that do can be controlled. Don’t entirely avoid the issue, but answer the questions you want to answer, not the ones you’re asked. As soon as the topic comes up use your elevator speech and immediately follow it with something specific about the value you’d add to this new company and how you’d go about doing that. No one changes the subject away from THAT.

Amcol, Good Reply

In reply to Don’t put reasons for leaving in a resume

This was one of your best replies to this thread.
Attaboy!

Re: *Chuckle*

In reply to *Chuckle*

I think the only way is to be truthful, but only if asked, and ensure you temper it in a professional tone. You don’t want to make a potential new employer think you’re unloyal or even worse the real “nut-case.” Most employers don’t want to hear you bad mouth your previous place of business.

Lost in Translation

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

First, I’m not sure why you ever called this guy a friend. I’m sure all the things you’re now being subjected to were visible before you started working for him. Maybe you assumed because he was a friend it wouldn’t happen to you? Second, why would you want to continue working under those conditions regardless how much you like the job. YOUR ON STRESS LEAVE for goodness sake, what is it going to take for reality to set in. Lastly, if you see taking appropriate action as being vindictive, I recommend not doing anything. If everything you say is true, this guy is using intimidation and it is clearly effective where you are concerned. Good must stand up to evil, regardless of the relationship, family, friend, etc.

As for the emails, you were somewhat foolish for sending emails of this nature knowing that he has access to them. Perhaps you should find another way of documenting this behavior such as a log which is stored on transportable media, i.e. a thumb drive, etc.

Is BPD your diagnosis or is it known that he has this disease? In either case something needs to be done based on the behavior you’ve described. There are steps that can be taken, but as long as you regard any type of corrective action as vindictive… well, you get the picture.

MY EXPERIENCE

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I had TWO wacked-out abusive bosses at the same time! One was a hysterical screamer, the other was a sneaky, manipulating backstabber. It got to me until I realized that they are the crazy ones, not me. The key was that I did what I could to make them look good. Once they figured out that I was doing that was able to call them on their abuse and stop it. I bided my time, built up my skill set and experience, left them behind and doubled my income in the process.

Been there…done that…Life is too short…

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I had a very similar experience at a large three letter computer company.

First of all, remind youself that you are an employee, not an endentured servant and that you have valuable, marketable skills.

Secondly, either transfer out of that department if you can, that is, if you want to stay with that company OR polish up your resume, start networking and move on. You do not have to take that kind of treatment.

Of course you can stay and try to fight the system-and you might even win. What the long-term emotional cost to you be?

Also, you can record, you can document, you can sue and exert lots of unproductive energy and emotional resources. (My former company had a “fire you on the spot” policy if you were caught recording – now I know why!) However, consider a corporate culture that fosters this kind of subordinate abuse.

Is this really a company you want to make you career home? Crappy managers almost never just pop on the scene and they certainly do not remain in position if there is a top down comittment to the employees.

Expend your energy on starting a new life. You can do it regardless of your age. I’m 53 and I never looked back! Good luck!!

Be in Control with knowledge

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

The person who is doing this has issues, and enough sense to be embrassed with his lack of interpersonal skills. I once had a manager who told me the way he handled “unions” was with their own rule book. Know your rights. Be smarter than him, carefully expose his short commings without appearing to do so, then he won’t be able to cover his tracks. He will make a mistake, the odds are against him. Know this and you will take the power back that you have given him. Consider, plan and expose. You can win and maybe loose, but it sounds like you are already loosing. Its really your call, take your time, fear blinds you to your options. You have been loosing the battles, why not win the war.

look for a better compay

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

look if you are not happy and your tired of being abused there are 2 things u can do 1. fina a better company to work for that you wont be abused 2. take your boss aside and explain to him very nicely that that kind of attitude towards you is not good and not professional
also if you look in the laws of the state your in you will see that you can file a conplaint against him and if he uprises to you then he has just stepped into no mans land then he has just gave you the right to sue him leagally

Many ways to handle this situation

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

The basic, underlying principal that I am hearing through this post is a Manager that shows a blatent lack of respect toward their employees.

“The man gets nose to nose and screams at me”
“He daily tells me every negative thing he can think of about me and my work”
etc.

Management has a responsibility both to the company and to the employees to handle themselves in a respectful manner. Treating everyone with Dignity and Respect.

To shout, scream, berate, belittle, verbally and/or mentally abuse are wrong, and inappropriate.

No reasonable person would dispute the filing of a grievance by a woman being sexually harassed and pursued by her boss. Why is this different.

Every employee has the right to expect a reasonably respectful workplace. Failing to provide that is the fault of management, and is unacceptable.

Now, how does one handle such a situation:

1. Document, on paper if necessary, all instances of abuse.
2. Approach coworkers for verification. If you are not the only abused party, then you may be able to find others that will confirm and validate your presentation of events.
3. Invest in a voice recorder. Put it in your pocket, or briefcase, or desk. Make sure it is voice activated. Not admissable in many legal proceedings, but effective when dealing with HR.
4. Reviews. Have you had any? If so, if the review was all negative, then why are you still there? If not, focus on the positive and bring that up in conversation with your manager.
5. CYA (Cover Your Ass). Error on the side of caution. Do not badmouth your boss or others in management to others. We are all people, and everything gets around. If you are badmouthing your manager, or seen around those that are, he/she will get wind of it and may take offense. This is human nature. Protect yourself, and do not get involved in petty office banter about others.
6. Know your environment. If management sticks together, and HR backs management, and the corporate culture as a whole does not breed respect and dignity, then do not expect it from your manager. Get out and find another position elsewhere.

As a manager, I have learned and grown over time. I have learned that I get much better results focusing on the positive aspects of my team, and appropriately coaching any negative aspects. All people make mistakes, and the goal is to help guide your team to recognize and learn from those mistakes.

If you manager does not follow that same pattern, the fault lay with them, not with you. However, you must still deal with it. Hopefully the steps outlined above will help.

Do not listen to those that say you must learn how to cope, do not let it bother you etc. That is BULL****. I agree that you can do things to offset the stress, and how it affects you, however, that does not absolve this manager from their abhorrent and irreprehensible behaviour.

But hey, that is just my $0.02

Tough love

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Let’s see….first,you have attempted multiple times to petition change by using your company chain of cammand…and second,you have been ordered to take time off from your job by workman’s compensation due to stress…and third,I’m sure it’s causing you no end of personal grief…brings me to a one word conclusion…Lawsuit.
The legal definition would be “failure to provide a safe work environment” or maybe “Negligence”.I know this sounds extreme,but I have had a little experience with a colleague or superior talking just a little too damned much smack over something that means absolutely zilch or just not giving a damn when the guacamole hits the fan.Like you…the chain of command gave no satisfaction,in fact it seemed like he had a friend higher up watching his rear.
Well,I did not sue,but some other techs did.They won a resounding victory over these people and actually got the corporation to clean house in that office.That won them the rep of being tattletales,but I feel like they did all of us a favor by standing up and making it worth coming to work.
Sorry so long….will shut up now.

Walk in the carpark

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I’d take him out to the carpark and beat the crap out of him. If he is bigger than you, for the price of an air ticket I’ll come and do it for you. I loathe bullies, the man needs shooting. Although I don’t personally advocate violance to solve any problem (sic)

Reply To: Bi-Polar OCD Boss

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

Find another manager within the company to confide in, that person can run interference for you. I was in a situation where I was the other manager and was forced to make a supervisor do his job. The supervisor didn?t work directly for me, but I was at a higher level of management, so I was able to squeeze him when I need to. I strongly believe in taking care of the people working for you, and in turn, they will take care of the job. If you can find a manager who is willing to do the right thing and take care of good employees, then rely on that person to fix the situation. It sounds like your manager should attend MANDATORY sensitivity training. Someone needs to make him attend. BTW, keep a journal just in case you have to recall dates/time/incidents. Good luck and remember, no job is worth your health. You can always find a job elsewhere.

For your sake you must leave.

In reply to Bi-Polar OCD Boss

I was the victim of an abusive boss myself. He worked much the same way — constantly telling me that I was useless and that my coworkers hated me. When you hear things like that on a daily basis it does real damage. He even suggested that I go to a therapist to find out why I was such a terrible person. He made the appointment and went with me to the first visit. He told the therapist all my problems and didn’t allow me to speak at that first meeting. At the end, the therapist asked me to come back the next day alone. The first words out of her mouth were, “You have to quit that job.” She explained that he was abusing me emotionally and mentally as much as if he were beating me about the face and head. Still, after having that pointed out to me, I felt that if I quit he would win. So it took a year for me to realize that leaving was exactly what I had to do to restore my health. After I left, my staff had to deal directly with that man and within two weeks the entire staff quit. I worked for a small wholly-owned subsidiary of an investment banking firm and that firm ended up selling the subsidiary because they had no staff to run it. About five years later, out of the blue, I got a call from one of my coworkers from that job. She asked why I had never kept in touch with anyone after leaving. I told her about constantly being told that my coworkers hated me. Her response was, “That *@+&%$#!” It took three years of therapy to get over the damage that one abusive boss did to me. Get away now!

[Author]

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