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  • #2180443

    Book Smarts VS College Smarts

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    by nazil dsouza ·

    My Discussion on this topic came to me thru my colleague who was practically frustrated over his interview for his new job, Companies around have a peculiar way of deciding the pay for their employees when it come to the matter of judging a persons pay it?s a question mark whether he is a book smart or a college smart. Basically a college smart is of high regards I agree to it he has spent most of his time and money studying on things and getting valid from it but in certain cases we should also shed our light on the books smart these are fellows who learn little and have good tactics in getting things right so what is it ?? Is it the book smarts or the college smart that is a matter of concern when it comes to pay ? . this colleague of mine was like that the director could not pay me more because I lack the college smart in me so I was pretty confused so thought of getting some suggestions from you fellas

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    • #3081596

      Book smarts??

      by ken-wilson ·

      In reply to Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      If I had interviewed you, I would have given you minimum wage for your talents but kept you in a dark corner. Your lack of education in things other than “computers” is very obvious. I can’t use you in areas where you would have to deal with “College Smart” people. Success in the job world is multiple talents, not just specific knowledge. I pay based on multiple abilities.

    • #3081584

      A hard read

      by prefbid ii ·

      In reply to Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      I’m sure your English is much better than my second language, but I’m having a difficult time reading your post.

      I’m assuming the basic question is “Is it acceptable to pay someone less just because they do not have a college education but otherwise have shown that they have the skills?”

      The simple answer is “yes”. Most college degrees include a lot more thinking, knowledge, understanding, and teamwork than just learning on your own. I may be looking for someone who is a C++ programmer, but I am never really just looking for a C++ programmer. I am looking for a C++ who has generally acceptable skills in a lot of other areas such as writing, presentation, business, and math. I may not be real picky about the exact combination of those “other” skills, but I want something to draw on.

      A college degree also gives you a foundation of having been tested. Someone independent of the 2 people in the interview has tested the individual and has given their assurance that the candidate meets some minimum qualifications.

      Last, a college degree says something about the determination of the candidate. He set his sights on a goal and worked to achieve it. Anyone who has been through college knows that you end up taking 3 courses that you don’t really want to bother with for every one that is germaine to your degree. You show that you are willing to work on the noninteresting things as well as the interesting — just like the way business works.

      • #3095333

        Absolutely!

        by mmarris ·

        In reply to A hard read

        The missive is somewhat difficult to follow which further emphasizes why the pay scales differ. Companies are aggressively searching for ways to make more money utilizing fewer resources; this includes job positions and pay. Doing more with less in less time has become the norm for employees and once they get comfortable with this they are asked to do it again. This means you need a well rounded knowledge of business writing, presentation design and delivery, customer sensitivity, problem-solving, finance, and in many cases training experience. This it what makes you competitive; anyone can be trained to learn a skill. But, as stated above, it takes valuable time, perserverance, sometimes desperation (suffering yet another peanut butter and jelly sandwich), and a willingness to do even the mundane to complete a degree. It’s these traits that an employees values; you can train this person to do anything!

    • #3082136

      Not So Easy From My End!!

      by smokebrown ·

      In reply to Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      It is very reassuring to know that IT managers and executives still value the significant contributions & benefits that a college degree brings to the table. However, I must confess that it has been an extremely difficult time for me in regards to gaining employment as a recent December college graduate (Bachelor of Applied Science in Mgmt. of Information Systems/Business Administration). What makes it really frustrating is that I have eight years of experience already under my belt in which my career began in the U.S. Air Force before I finished my degree.

      I have submitted numerous resumes and online applications since the end of October in anticipation to my December 2005 graduation and I haven’t received one single email or phone call. Another thing that is hard to tolerate is that there are people in the profession that I know personally who don’t have a degree that are hired through “connections” rather than their skills and educational background. I’m looking forward to enhancing my career, not to find a “job”. The whole purpose for attaining a degree was so that the ambitions of becoming an I.T. Executive could become a reality.

      In conclusion, I believe based on my own account that being “College Smart” is much more valuable long term than being simply “Book Smart”.

      • #3095057

        Hang in there

        by nean_72 ·

        In reply to Not So Easy From My End!!

        I graduated in Aug ’04 and suffered through a year of interviewing and finally landed a job with a wireless communication company as an administator in Sept ’05. I love the job and am very grateful to have landed it. I had no experience in IT at all before I got this job. I did not think I was ever going to be able to get out of the retail industry and get into IT. I make good money and I am doing something I really enjoy. Keep doing what you are doing (posting resumes, making contacts, and going to interviews) and try to find out if there are any companies expanding operations in your area. You’ll get there.

    • #3081919

      Bleh

      by tony hopkinson ·

      In reply to Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      Tell your friend to tell the director, f’off !
      Anyone said that to me, they best start looking for a new employee, if they are real lucky they might find one half as good. Being judged by your peers is fine, never accept the judgement of an a**hole though. If the guy said this, he’s a know nothing idiot in CYA mode.
      Can you do the job, do you do the job and how much value do you add by doing the job are the only criteria for judging salary. When you find someone who can and does do the job, how stupid would you have to be to insult them in this fashion in order to ‘save’ a few bucks.

    • #3081069

      It depends on the company

      by jonny memonic ·

      In reply to Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      i work in a dept where 70 percent of the people have a degree and i could do everything they are doing and more. So i would say a degree is nice but not necessary once you could do the job, thats my opinion of course and my salary is the same as the other degree people.

    • #3095520

      neither

      by apotheon ·

      In reply to Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      Smarts don’t figure into it so much. It’s two things: experience, and paper. If you have experience, that helps. If you have a piece of paper that declares you smart, whether you are or not, that can increase chances of getting hired, and can remove that glass ceiling that exists at some companies.

      Unfortunately, in corporate America, actually knowing what you’re doing comes in a distant sixth or so for hiring requirement priorities, if not even further down the list.

    • #3095480

      College, of course

      by 2manycerts ·

      In reply to Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      What are you going to do, walk in with a stack of books and say “I’ve read all these.”

      “I gots books lernin'”

      • #3078942

        Books, of course!

        by tnelson ·

        In reply to College, of course

        Isn’t that what a diploma says: “I read a lot of books”? It’s just easier to carry around….

    • #3095455

      How about “Job” Smarts

      by peter.marshall ·

      In reply to Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      I’m not too sure that there is a whole lot of difference between book smarts and college smarts. Both can help you get your foot in the door, but I look for job smarts and job experience. In the past, I have attended many technical classes where many of the attendees were there to get certifications (MCE, CNE) but had no real-world experience. In a crunch, I was never too sure how valuable that certification would be.

      Certainly in our field, I look for signs of logical thinking, reasoning, perseverance, and the ability to communicate clearly, both verbally and in the written word. I have to agreee with some of the other posts that your writing style would be a huge negative if I were interviewing you for a postion, regardless of your experience.

    • #3095430

      Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      by philip.gray ·

      In reply to Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      Nazil – It’s the You Smarts.

      In negotiating pay you need to be getting the employer excited about your potential to deliver benefits into the future. If they are not excited then maybe someone else will be…

    • #3095419

      Reply To: Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      by the admiral ·

      In reply to Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      There is a simple rule that I learned.

      If you have a degree, you can generally be put into other areas and grow into the field you are put into. If you have a certificate, you have specialized yourself into a box.

      A degree says that you have a multitude of skillsets both Liberal and Conservative and that you can generally work around problems and go into areas treading water and figure it out. Most companies want a degree, and pay for it appropriately.

      Companies look at certificates (book smarts) and say one word: “temp” or “high burn out” and don’t consider you any further for any other position.

      The reason is that book smarts, while giving you a highly technical area of expertise, tends to not allow you to go through the process of critical thinking in problems, since most of your book smarts are black and white. Unfortunately, there is always grey, which the books almost never nearly highlight or allow you to expunge on.

      • #3095727

        “simple rule ??”

        by avid ·

        In reply to Reply To: Book Smarts VS College Smarts

        I think that most HR’s would agree with your post. Now having said that, I have never attended a college course. I do not plan to ever attend a college course. I have been in IT since 99. Granted, that is a short period of time. I have witnessed this attitude from others that if you have no degree, then you are not deserving of the same salary as the people with a degree, even if you out perform them. This is a terrible practice for any business. My latest employer attemped to use this approach when it was time for a raise. My response was to start my own business. My old employer has lost about $200,000 a year due to my absence and his clients calling and asking how to get in contact with me. The point is this. If the guy can do the job, then pay him based on his performance, hire him based on his experience, and do not overlook some one just because they did not have the same opportuninty for college or chose a different path. (i.e. military, peace corps, whatever) Lack of a degree does not automatically equate to no reasoning skills.
        however, i will agree that the original poster could benefit from college.

      • #3096525

        re: book smarts

        by apotheon ·

        In reply to Reply To: Book Smarts VS College Smarts

        “[i]the books almost never nearly highlight or allow you to expunge on.[/i]”
        Clearly, you never let any of those book smarts into your head to clutter things up for you.

    • #3095338

      get your degree

      by jekoski1 ·

      In reply to Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      Get the degree you need, as over all it will pay off in tne long run.

    • #3094827

      Both have advantages and disadvantages

      by lvtechacct ·

      In reply to Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      It has been my experience that employers need to go back to the basic elements of hiring and pay wages. I agree that a good education (college) carries an advantage over those who did not attend (book smarts). However, it is a small margin at best and not enough to say one is better than the other.

      I have the advantage of having both the “education” and “book smarts” as well as “years of experience”. I had the pleasure of working with both elements of this discussion and ultimately it comes down to who can actually do the job. Not who can out smart the other. I have placed both educated and book smarts head to head in tasks and projects and find that neither had an advantage over the other.

      It all boiled down to experience (in the field at hand and knowledge of the task). There are times when a company can get both elements out of either candidate if they are willing to spend the invested “time” in mentorship programs for highly qualified and capable “book smart” personnel. On the other side of this discussion, the same is true for the “educated” personnel. They may come to you with the “ability to learn” but I feel all people have the ability to learn if given a chance.

      What is missing in the corporate environment is the element of respect. If you do right by your employees (whether educated or book smart) they will do right by you. I believe both educated and book smart individuals can work side by side and produce the same quality of work if given the right opportunity and proper pay due them.

      The test to what I am saying becomes evident if you were willing to hire them solely on their performance until you later discovered that they lacked the “education” element needed. That is why the “fair” thing to do is keep your options open and list the job opening to include both “education” and/or “job experience” and you may find that you will end up with exactly what you wanted anyway — someone who can actually do the job, no matter what.

    • #3094649

      no degree and loving it

      by avid ·

      In reply to Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      having no degree prevented me from getting a few jobs that i thought were high paying… at the time. after being paid less than others who knew less than me, i decided to start my own side business. i work for myself at night and on weekends. i average about 15 hours a week working for myself and i make more than double my salary of 29,000. the clients do not care about degrees!!!

      • #3096514

        nice

        by apotheon ·

        In reply to no degree and loving it

        So: what exactly are you doing to make all this money?

        • #3078012

          my job

          by avid ·

          In reply to nice

          that is the best part. i am doing exactly what i was doing before… consulting, sales, networks,.
          the only difference is that when the bill goes out, it has my name on it. and no, i am not “stealing” any clients. i started working a little at night and on weekends, word got around, people started calling. now the monster has grown almost out of control. i am so busy that i am afraid i will have hire someone to help, which i am reluctant to do. after all, this could just be the storm before the drought. but i am enjoying all the work for now. i have even gotten calls from a city over 150 miles away. word of mouth is definately the best advertising.

    • #3076183

      no smarts

      by ericl_w199 ·

      In reply to Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      It should be book smarts vs street smarts.book smarts is knowing the subject you have studied for.street smarts is having common sence which is a dirty word these days.street smarts also helps you get through life without having gone to college and suvive.most highly educated people are extreamly lacking in the common sence department and couldnt change a light bulb to save their life without instructions and maybe then not be able to do it.

    • #3076178

      oh yea

      by ericl_w199 ·

      In reply to Book Smarts VS College Smarts

      They may pay you the same and do the same work
      degree or not.But my father is an electrical engineer.To be part of the techinal team where he works you had to have an engineering degree of some sort other wise you were not part of this group “on paper”.

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