General discussion

Locked

Car Modding?

By rexrich2k ·
Tags: Off Topic
article root

This conversation is currently closed to new comments.

20 total posts (Page 1 of 2)   01 | 02   Next
| Thread display: Collapse - | Expand +

All Comments

Collapse -

I agree with your views..

by rexrich2k In reply to Car Modding?

I of course know that car Engine Modding in its self is another thing. But I used it as an example only in that its one of something (still left) we can Mod in our garages/homes. And so that industry has been around long and has, Gone its path.

The visionaries of that time imagined massive engines with endless horsepower. But as we've seen, other forces find their way in and alter/refine the path of the home Modder.

Industry always starts out headlong into the Biggest and the Everything, but in the end finds its way back to the *simple*.

Sad but true, in the long run the Simpleton always wins.

Collapse -

But car modding still happens

by Slayer_ In reply to I agree with your views..

Though it's largely electronic now.

A key difference is that the smaller engines are producing more power at a broader RPM range than those big V8's used to.

Heck I see those big old muscle cars drag race all the time. They get between 15 and 18 seconds.
The civics and lancers, etc, get 16 to 18 seconds with their 4 cylinder engines.
Grand caravan got 22 seconds
Class C econoline motor home got 28 seconds. Though that might have been the max it could count to.

Or how about this. How come my 1000 CC snowmobile produces 165 horsepower @ 10500 RPM's but cars struggle to get 150 out of 2000 CC's.
People have turbo charged the engine in my sled to over 300 horsepower.


If we tried to draw parallels with the computer world, that would be cell phones and laptops out powering desktops, and for less money, less electricity.
We know that doesn't happen and may never happen. So you can't compare cars to computers.

Collapse -

Next question

by NickNielsen In reply to But car modding still hap ...

How does the torque compare between the two engines? Because that is what actually does the work.

Collapse -

Which two engines?

by Slayer_ In reply to Next question

I listed several.

If you are talking my snowmobile it's hard to say, the engine is stronger than all the drive components. It is very common to see clutches and belts explode under the pressure, so you can't really measure it.
But my sled will do 0 to 60 in an around 2-3 seconds, 10 seconds to reach the top speed of 200kph. Snow conditions affect traction and top speed.
Our drag race sled does the quarter mile (in summer) in 9.83 seconds. a 900 CC motor. Gas milage on the drag sled is about 4 gallons per mile, so not great lol.

Collapse -

The two you mentioned in the last comparison

by NickNielsen In reply to Which two engines?

The sled and the 2000cc car engine. I was just wondering about the stock torque ratings for the two of those.

Collapse -

Torque or Horsepower..

by rexrich2k In reply to The two you mentioned in ...

When talking engine power output we need to remember that Torque and Horsepower are two different things. And they matter most when using an engine at its peak performance.

In short Torque is the low RPM power and HP is the high RPM power an engine produces in its power output curve.

Basically you trade one for the other.

The Crank;
A long Crank stroke produces more Torque, but a lower RPM.
A short stoke Crank allows more RPM and more HP, but produces less Torque.

Connecting Rods;
The length of the connecting rods are also important. The longer the rod the more RPM they will allow.

The Camshaft;
The more valve Lift a camshaft has the more air and fuel will be let in/out in by the engine.
The more valve lift Duration a camshaft has the more time, air and fuel is let in/out of the engine,
The trade off though is that using a big cam causes the combustion to have less time to develop at lower RPMs, so while allowing more HP they develops less Torque.

Turbo's & Superchargers;
Turbo's and Superchargers can be used to reclaim or enhance these parameters.
Turbo's typically work better in a High RPM environment, because they can Spin Up more of their own RPM's and produce higher cylinder pressures. While Superchargers take more power to operate they deliver positive cylinder pressure through the entire RPM power curve.

These are the very basics anyway.
-----------------------------------------
I suspect that a Snowmobile engine makes more power than a auto engine because its not hampered by Smog Regulation's. So they can run more fuel down in them.

No smog reg's, take a gander at your Top Fuel Dragster these days.. They are producing up to 10,000 HP out of just 500ci. That's like 1,200 HP per cylinder! lol

Collapse -

Then there is Valve Overlap

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Torque or Horsepower..

Which allows the incoming charge to help push the burnt charge out of the cylinder and allows better filling of the cylinder at high RPM as the gas has a higher velocity and hence more Kinetic Energy.

But here the snowmobile is likely to produce more HP per Liter of swept volume but at the same time have a smaller engine which allows much higher HP at the expense of a shorter engine life. For example I have a 9.15 cc motor here that is claimed to produce 1.5 HP which considerably exceeds the magic 100 HP per liter but that engine isn't going to last very long. I may get several hours running out of it which will be quite a lot considering that a 5 minute run will be an exceptionally long run.

No comment on the Force Feeding any Reciprocating Engine as the use of Turbo/Super chargers is a unnecessary complex addition for very little benefit. Of course if you are using 60 PSI Boost or higher it's worth while but for the common Boost pressures that are used in Production Engines of 5 to 8 PSI it is a unnecessary complication for little benefit. That's one of the things I was taught when I was working in Germany for the God of the Car Makers anyway.

Though if anyone can design a engine that has a Piston Speed of approaching 186 feet per second it's most defiantly something I would want to play with. :^0

Col

Collapse -

Well my sleds engine is basically a modified R1 engine

by Slayer_ In reply to Torque or Horsepower..

So looking at the life and stats of a Yamaha R1 engine should give a good idea of the engines potential.

Collapse -

Ok I wont..

by rexrich2k In reply to Car Modding?

I you're missing my point though. Im simply using cars as a metaphor, because they are broadly excepted, complex and have had time to solidify. But I didn't mean to get off topic.

Anyway car modding does still happen but the course its taken is very different than what the modders of the early days imagined. That was my point and you see that.

Back on point.. Let me say, There are many different parallels you can look back on to see where personal tech is going...

There are a few rules that invention uses to please the most people for broad usefulness, e.g. Sales. It has always worked this way;
1. make it easier. (Anyone can use it)
2. make it cost less. (Everyone can have one)
3. make it smaller. (Fits anywhere)
4. make it most efficient. (Does everything)

This will happen regardless of what We as modders want it to be.
In the long run every successful product ends up being (Fitted to the most people possible). The majority of people are ignorant and simple, so with that will go the *Personal Computer. In a word, Clinical.

So I see Cell phones being the way, toward the next 20 years. The thing I hate about that is I wont be able to get my fingers dirty and Hot Rod it up like I can now. But maybe like You and I are really are saying 'There will be a different way'.

You are visionary, where do you see the personal computer going in say 10~15~20 years?

Thanks for your good points and being in on the debate, btw.

Collapse -

PCs still exist for only two reasons

by robo_dev In reply to Car Modding?

1) Powerful processors take a lot of power and generate a bunch of heat.
2) Cheap mass storage is not completely miniaturized just yet.

Today I can connect my iPhone to my HD TV via AppleTV and surf the web, watch movies, and even do some email.

But my phone only has 16 gigs of storage, while the 1T drive in my desktop is faster and cheaper. Also the processor on my desktop is a whole lot more powerful than my iphone.

My desktop is not the same size as my iPhone because:

- The Intel i7 processor won't fit in an iphone, (think of the power and heat issues)

- A cheap 1 Terabyte SSD small enough to solder to the iPhone motherboard does not exist.

In theory, if my phone had the same processing power and storage....with maybe a wireless keyboard or mouse attached, why would I need the big shiny metal box that is my desktop PC?

A laptop or tablet are kind of in-between,

Tomorrow's 'PC' may just be a docking station for your phone, tablet, or mini-laptop essentially.

YES, we can compare cars to computers.....look at the original high performance PC, the IBM PC cost about $1500, and my phone can run circles around it...heck the processor built into my TV, my car, or my portable GPS unit could smoke it in a drag race.

Today for $1500 you can buy a desktop PC with a nice monitor and printer and have $1000 left over, if you shop carefully.

The best Ford Mustang you could buy in 1982 was the 5.0 HO which put out a whopping 160 horsepower and did zero to sixty in 6.9 seconds.....today the BOSS 302 puts out 444 horsepower from the same 5.0 Liters, delivering something like four seconds 0-60.....but I digress.

Back to After Hours Forum
20 total posts (Page 1 of 2)   01 | 02   Next

Related Discussions

Related Forums