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CAUGHT

By ___._ ·
We have recently pulled up a work experience person for overuse of the web (company policy). From the logs we have identified that TR is the number one on the hit list AND this is the number one page.

Looking into this further: The assigned guest account being used has not been active within the company for some time (we have quite a few). Needless to say the guest account does contain an autologin cookie for TR.

The person has now left.

Situation resolved to what I hope is mutual satisfaction. The rest I will deal with on my own...

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Your logic is flawed

by Ed Woychowsky In reply to CAUGHT

It all depends upon several factors such as what the technology is. Lets say that you?re looking for an XSLT person for an opening at your company. There are two candidates, the first has five years of experience, but no paper and the second has three months of experience and a certificate in the technology. According to your reasoning you would hire candidate number 2 based upon a piece of paper and a three-month work history.

Taking your argument to the next step lets add three additional candidates Michael Kay, Steve Muench and Jeni Tennison. Following your logic candidate number 2 would still be your choice over Michael Kay, Steve Muench and Jeni Tennison. This totally disregards the fact that Michael Kay and Steve Muench were involved with designing XSLT and Jeni Tennison has written books on the topic.

Interesting argument, it certainly explains quite a bit about how business works. Rather than get the best and most experienced person for the job, get the person with a piece of paper that read the books written by the best and most experienced people.

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as well

by Jaqui In reply to Your logic is flawed

the people that have the paper may not have developed the real work workplace skills needed, like effective communication, working under tight deadlines and problem solving where time is critical.

Often, the person with the most experience actually working with the technology will have far more to offer than merely knowledge of the technology, even if they also have that piece of paper.

When I was working in restaurants cooking, I saw a large number of chefs, complete with papers from schooling, change careers because the actual workplace was not what the school taught, nor did they have the skills to perform even the most basic tasks in a high volume kitchen. In reality, I only met 2 papered chefs that could handle the high volume kitchens, in 20 years working in them. I've met chefs that are stunned that I spent that long in that style of establishment, and they all concider me their EQUAL, even though I never studied cooking, I only did it while working.

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Question

by Ed Woychowsky In reply to as well

Jaqui,
What is it with IT people and food services? Including myself about half of the IT people that I've known have worked in restaurants. There seems to be some kind of bizzare relationship.

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easy

by Jaqui In reply to Question

ya gotta earn beer money somehow while learning the it stuff

editing to add:

and you have to admit, the high pressure of short order cooking is excellent training for server down times.
when it comes to a crunch like getting the network running after it crashed, the experience of working food industry in a short order restaurant where fast table flips are the goal is great training for meeting tight deadlines.

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Cool

by Ed Woychowsky In reply to easy

Your skills are beyond mine, short order in an pancake house.

I did, however, learn one thing, put Alpo in a crepe and people will think that it is fancy. Thinking about it now reminds me of some big name software. Hmmm....

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Kind of like aspiring actors

by rickydoo In reply to Question

being waiters. I changed careers because of a medical condition after working my way up to sous chef, and I left cooking school early when I put a knife through my tendon chopping parsley so I guess you could say I was mostly self-taught in cooking too..

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Masochism?

by kpotter In reply to Question
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I agree, and add

by w2ktechman In reply to as well

that a lot of people with the paper still dont know anything. I have a few certs, but I know full MCSE, MCA, etc. that barely have knowledge to run (let alone work on) Windows systems. It is because cheats become available quickly.
In fact I know someone who got 100% on a cert for Win2k, and then asked me the next day, how to add a computer to the domain, and what would happen if they created a local user account and tried accessing the network.
To me, paper means very little unless there is experience behind it.
but, I am not a hiring mgr either.

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Experence is whats important

by Beilstwh In reply to I agree, and add

When my company interviews for IT positions, they don't even care what certs you have. For example, we recently hired a DBA. One person had a degree in IT and the other didn't, but had written a number of books on the subject. When I interviewed them I never asked or cared about any formal education. I asked them technical questions about DBA tasks and asked them what if questions. I used a prepared list of questions that I have made up for all the interviews so the questions would be fair. The formally trained person couldn't answer half the questions. I self taught person had everything down cold and he was hired.

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Good!

by apotheon In reply to Experence is whats import ...

. . . on the other hand, experience isn't really the most important characteristic for a long-term hire, though it's more important than a college degree or certification. The most important characteristics, in technical terms, are interest, critical thinking skills, and enthusiasm for learning.

I'd hire someone who has taught himself everything except the job for which I'm hiring over someone that has been taught absolutely everything there is to know about the job for which I'm hiring, but never learned anything on his own at all, generally speaking.

For short-term, temporary jobs, sometimes it makes more sense to hire the guy with more experience, though. The shorter time to get the guy in gear might be worth it on a contract basis.

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