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Clueless in Seattle

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by oz_media

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US police in Seattle asked Vancouver police to arrest political party leader and marijuana activist Marc Emery for extradition to the USA.

Marc Emery was the pioneer of Vancouver Hemp Store and now operates Vancouver's seed distribution store as well as being the BC Marijuana Party leader.

Seattle police have had him arrested for his business that has been shipping seeds to multiple US states, other claims (not charges) were against money laundering and other smaller crimes.

In Vancouver, Marc Emery is a VERY well known marijuana activist and leader of the Marijuana Party. Vancouver police have not arrested him to since 1999, for even though selling seeds IS illegal in Vancouver, they do not have substantial evidence of him as an individual committing the crimes.

As a result of the arrests, people in Vancouver lined the sreet outside the seed bank and protest US police presence in Canada, though not a physical presence, they had ordered the arrest and this has infuriated many locals, who are already adamantly against US political actions.

News footage showed Marc standing ouside of the police station in Nova Scotia, where he was attending the annual hempfest (there's one in every province every year) that police turn a blind eye to, in fact they attend and control traffic and crowds during the annual parade and smoke-in. The RCMP officers allowed him have one last MASSIVE Bong hit before he turned around in submission for the officer to handcuff him. (Only in Canada they say, pity! :) )

Canadian news: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1122667113835_118076313/?hub=TopStories

US news: http://www.komotv.com/stories/38267.htm

Another Seattle report claims his business is shut down. Not realizing that it will only cause a dozen more to be opened now that the competition is gone. They also claim that because he is selling seeds to US grow ops, he is a drug dealer.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_072905WAKpotarrestDS.2164f8ef.html

But cannabis seeds are NOT really a drug, and he doesn't technicallt sell a drug. The people who cultivate it strip only the intoxicating buds from the cannabis plants and sell them, are drug dealers.

The guy that sells the guns may be breaking a law in some countries, but he is not a murderer unless he uses them to kill someone.

The US news paints a far more condemning picture BUT there is little mention of the biggest argument against US presence in Canada to investigate the alledged crimes. Do they really want people to believe that Canadians feel this is okay and that nobody is pissed off at the US?

I watched as the Seattle press conference claimed that they had finally captured him and he will suffer the steepest penalties and be shut down. This guy has been shut down before, he has evaded 11 similar charges based on looopholes, as he has a VERY high profile local lawyer. Seattle police are still extremely confident though.

The US news clip also says that a handful of people were protesting his arrest outside the store. The news I watched showed a LOT of people congregated, flying US flags upside down and protesting with signs and full attention of the media. In the end the protest turned into arrests for impeding the police at the scene.

I think the BIGGEST issue of all, is that he was ORDERED arrested after DEA agents had investigated his business. The thought of US police ordering the arrest a Canadian (icon) IN Canada was really just too much of the 'US in Canada's businesss' for most to stomache.

Apprently the issue is not even that he was selling seeds to some personal culivators in the USA but for providing seeds used by major marijuana grow operations in the USA, which for some bizarre reason US authorities think will be forced to shut down. Perhaps hey haven't read Marc Emery's magazines that provide outlets to buy seeds all over the world (as does the readily available, world famous High Times magazine) of all strains and with pictures and ratings of the quality.

Perhaps US authorities just have no idea what they are up against, one man and one seed operation doesn't even qualify as a spit in the bucket, in fact arresting Marc Emery wil only cause people to be even more blatant about selling seeds and promoting marijuana than ever before. Just as it did in 99 when he was arrested by Vancouver police and apparently was to have his sttore shut down. It will simply allow importers from Europe and other continents to start shipping mroe and more seeds to the US and Canada as the market is now wide open for them.

This will be stopping large grow ops in the USA ? Pull the other one, they must be absolutely mad to believe it for 5 minutes, good luck with that Seattle. :^O

276 replies

by jaqui

they are breaking international laws by having thier police operating in canada, ordering the arrest of canadian citisens for breaking us laws while in canada.

nuke the commie bas|ds!!!!

;)

it's a prime example of the us screwing themselves world opinion wise.
this is exactly the type of activity that promotes anti usa commentary, terrorist activities, and genral disgust with the usa.

by oz_media

People would have been much mellower if this wasn't a typical US overstepping thier boundaries issue.

That first report makes it seem like a couple of people stood outside and rallied gainst it. It soon turned into a blockade that resulted in police arresting them in an aggrivated standoff.

It's just getting way out of hand, the US is in everyone's business because any part of the worl around them that touches thier country in any way is immediately THIER business.

Man, why don't they just dig a big trench across the border and set the USA sailing south or something. They could completely isolate themselves from the rest of the world and do us all a favour. But then they wouldn't be able to dominate consumption of the rest of the world's resources I suppose.

by jaqui

talknig with me mac buddy about this.
both of us want to find out who the dea and fbi agents working in vancouver are, so we can plaster thier faces all over the place.

thinking about promoting hacking both agencies to pull agent database images, posting the entire dea and fbi rosters on billboards around town will get them out of here.

us police in the usa, not in a separate country.

by absolutely

As a US citizen, it is a case of just plain screwing ourselves, PLUS the effect to international relations!

Or, more exactly, getting screwed by DC, plus...because nobody benefits from the War for Drugs except fearmongers and their paid assassins in the coercive, government-made monopoly called drug smuggling.

Yes, the "tough on drugs" politicians are ALL in cahoots with South American revolutionary drug kingpins, and with Al Qaeda. There needn't be a money trail: neither can exist without the other! Think about it.

Al Capone [i]relied[/i] on Prohibition to skew supply/demand dynamics, which became statics for him, as always happens in illegal markets for products that are in demand. The USSR, I believe, tried to control the use of vodka. I hear it didn't work there, either.

Human nature -- the full spectrum of human nature as expressed in the variety of people we all [i]know[/i] to exist within the gene pool's variety -- is a [i]metaphysical fact[/i], a constant, not a variable, and as such cannot be altered or abolished. But I know something that can!

Legislation will not remove an economic demand, nor will [i]any[/i] level of brutality in enforcement. All attempts to negate or evade metaphysical facts, including the human desire for intoxication (occasional in some cases, constant in others) is [i]hopeless[/i].

Would we be better off without addiction, or addicts?

IRRELEVANT, WE WOULD BE A DIFFERENT SPECIES!

by house

The drugs don't promote violence, the war on drugs promotes violence.

The US government spends way too much money on this issue, pointing its ugly finger at drug abuse and intoxication as the primary cause for the decay of their lesser fortunate areas, when in fact, this escape from reality is a direct result of the sh*tty state of affairs that has become of an abandonned society.

The issue is simple - frightened right wing extremists with nothing better to do. For everyone's sake, I hope that your country will spawn a few more brilliant democrats in the future. Though I am slightly conservative on the scale, there is an obvious lack of balance in the US right now.

This is one pissed off Canadian. ]:)

by house

There is way more pot going south than there are seeds. Why don't they try to nail someone at the border? Instead of invading our country and snatching up our citizens? Why don't they arrest their own citizens who are buying the seeds? Why don't they just relax and twist one up...

F*cking leave us alone. This is ridiculous. We can't let our citizen go to face their overexagerated drug laws. This whole ordeal just doesn't make any sense to me.

Benson says, "..." who cares what Benson has to say. Why are US authorities accusing our citizens? Give me a friggin break. If MY dog shits in MY backyard, it's MY BACKYARD. The 'Seattle operations' are just an excuse, and I'd be surprised to learn that they actually hold water.

by oz_media

Seeing as the MAJORITY of theses seeds are available online or through several publications and advertised for sales globally through Amsterdam, would it be okay for US to go to Amsterdam and start arresting seed dealers? That would go down well I'm sure.

Or why doesn't the RCMP launch an undercover investigation into these known grow ops in the USA, that cause OUR citizens to break the law by selling seeds. I think our friends in the south would be more than happy to see our Mounted Police launching investigations in their country. Then we could simply order the state police to arrest these people on demand and extradite them to Canada to face a judge.

Lets extradite Bush first and arrest him for being a dictator committing war crimes.

Seeing as penalities are MUCH tighter in the US, why hasn't the US just shut down these grow ops, once they are in jail for life (or on death row awating the chair) it would send out a FAR stronger message to US grow ops, Marc Emery is NOT the way to even begin to slow the sale of seeds to these people who can buy them all over the world anyway. Arresting Canadians is not even a partially sensible resolution.
It's lik ewhen they tried to have Sharman Networks in AUSTRALIA SHUT DOWN BECAUSE Americans were using thier file sharing program. A55holes should look at themselves first, but they never do, they don't know HOW to look at themselves.

They don't realize that in Canada if they arrest a marijuana advocate, that all of those who follow him will automatically pick up the reigns even more blatantly than he did and do it in protest, whlie waving it in thier faces?

Despite the fact that it is absolutely insane to try and enforce YOUR laws in another country that has fewer penalties, the whole THOUGHT process is ridiculous. How stupid can people be? I mean this is even below the mentality of a small child, who would know better. Goes to show the level of IQ these people possess, it's equivalient to that of a rusty bottle opener.

Just completely retarded, and people wonder why others oppose Bush's mentality behind fighting the war on terrorism.

In Canada, 'we always get our man'

In the USA, they have no idea who their man is, so they get everyone else and think it's being clever and offering resolve.

Complete retards, with absolutely NO clue where to turn next.

ON another note, isn't it cool how quickly and efficiently Scotland Yard nailed these guys in England? Now that's targeting the right people in the right place for you. They didn't just throw 50 muslims in jail saying 'we are rounding them up' and then go attack another country in hopes that they will catch some potential terrosits in the meantime.

Every move Bush and the US authorities make, makes them an even bigger laughing stock for the rest of the world. Esapecially as they love to televise these morons and provide a warped view of the story to make it appear intelligent and the best thing for Americans. Yet when we see the full reports and video we can actually see the bigger picture that America doesn't want people to see.

Petty soon we'll see them driving into combat zones in a Hummer and 25 men will pop out making ballon animals and tooting bicycle horns.

How about, F**K OFF, they aren't welcome ANYWHERE in the world now. Thank the government for that one, instead of blaming those who oppose the actions.

by house

...will attract some of those needle nosed republicans that flamed everyone during the Bush campaign. I'd love to read their tight ass*d remarks right about now, just to reinforce my hatred for this administration. ;)

by oz_media

In most cases they will defend even the most absurd actions, but ones like this are simply not defendable.

They avoid discussions where they actually have to face the music, if it's undesireable, ignore it and pretend it isn't there, as Bush has taught them well.

Head in the sand, while saying what's wrong with everyone else.

Maybe time for a new bumper sticker.

"Have you beaten the snot out of a Republican today?"

"Help save the whales, kill a Republican"

"Support drug control, kill the right wing"

"Support the free world, get rid of Bush"

"Support gun control, shoot a righty"

Bunch of clowns. yet they feel they are so right, that's the most aggravating part, how stupid and misguided they are.

by house

For some reason though, I can still see them justifying this action in their narrow skulls. I'll be really surprised if one of them doesn't stick his ugly head in here to say "well... it's wrong because the law says it's wrong" - or to even go so far as to attack drug use and distribution as the root of all that is evil in this world.

There is a big difference between laws and morals, and their failure to see that difference is one of the primary reasons for the world's rejection of Republican thought. Their laws aren't made to protect people, they are made to widen the gaps between the various classes in western civilization.

A blind man with a weapon cannot differentiate between an attacker and a common citizen. Open your f*cking eyes before you run out of excuses, else you'll have your cival war.

by jdclyde

(get it, RIGHT?)

Tight assed, yes, I like girls.

This isn't a Republican/Democrat issue, which suprises me that OZ isn't knowledgable enough about the US to know that? Truly a disappointment the lack of understanding about this issue.

Democrats had the white house for 8 years, and they went after the same "war on drugs".

It is lack of understanding by the general public. What we see is what is on TV about the violence that surrounds the drug houses (yes, we have a lot of drug violence, take a walk through Flint or Detroit and try to tell me otherwise).

Of course, that fact that the drugs are illegal so it is rival gangs that have to fight for teritory that most of the violence comes from, not the average user. If legal, then people would not fight over being able to sell on this or that corner because you could get it cheaper and safer at the local RX.

Cause and effect. Do drugs create violence or does the illegalness of the drugs create violence? Most people, INCLUDING DEMOCRATES just don't look that closely.

But it is yet another thing for a certain Bush HATER to go off on? How can someone go through life carrying so much hate for someone they have never gotten divorced from? Grow up.

by house

Treat it like a conversation among friends. I don't really hate Republicans, or even Bush himself for that matter. It just makes me shudder to sit back and watch the Orwellian dystopia unfold. I can see a difference between 'needle nosed Republicans' and plain old 'Republicans'. Like everything else, they cannot be generalized. It was not an attack on the US, it was an attack on an ideology that is difficult to narrow down, and is not definitive of all who wear red. In any case, it was just a rant, though I did succeed in pulling one of the blind followers out of the woodwork (not you).

- - - - - - - - -

Violent people are violent by nature, and it has nothing to do with drugs. Narcotics are simply the business that they've chosen.

A few months ago, some psycho shot up the Alberta police while they raided his grow-op near Edmonton. During the week to follow, some people were blaming pot as the reason for the deaths of the officers, and demanded stiffer penalties for the cultivation of marijuana. This type of thinking is what really gets my goat. "Let's push more resources into the war on drugs - this would never have happened if we had more stern regulations and penalties relating to the production and distribution of marijuana."

by ben "iron" damper

Dang no wonder here in the US people can't stand Canadians, your all a bunch of terrorist supporting A-holes. Not to mention your biggest claim to fame is that c@nt Celine Deion.

by house

Your type hates Canadians. Did I generalize the States in any way? I don't think so.

So Oz was right after all...

"I have concluded that if you hate all Democrats, they call you a wise neighbour, if you are against ANY Republicans, you are Anti-American."

I then rolled back my attack a little bit because it is NOT a Republican / Democrat issue.

"I understand what you are saying though. Even their own citizens are required to support the Republican administration, else they are accused of being unpatriotic and unsupportive of the troops overseas. Translation - Anti-American.

I just realized that this crap doesn't have much to do with Repiblican / Democratic politics - we're going off on a rant here. heh."

Am I not allowed to express my point of view without being deemed a 'terrorist lover'? Grow up. The issue has nothing to do with Bush, and not all Republicans are useless - I'm not that narrow minded. The only reason that I dropped the name was because I knew that the minds would flock on over here to spit their two cents on this thread. I want to hear some intelligent feedback on the issue at hand. What are your thoughts on the whole ordeal?

Ps - The Celine Dion comment just goes to show the 'worldly nature' of your point of view. Get a life. Canada has nothing to with Celine Dion, besides the fact that she grew up here.

by oz_media

It's SO typical, this is just another blatant example of the US getting involved where it is niether welcome, justifiable or welcome.

This is another issue that right-wing yankers will see as a needed and justified measure o the world police. World police wouldn't be THAT unacceptable, if they weren't so f*****g stupid to begin with.

Scotland Yard wouldn't be so bad, the baddis would be gone real quick and the people would be left alone, even THEY are unfavorable though, yet MUCH better than the USA trying to instill thier warped views on the rest of the world.

If Americans are so proud of being individuals, so proud of thier freedom (that only applies IN America and doesn't mean they have the freedom to do as they wish elsewhere)if they say everyone is jealous of America and they don't need others, why do they spend all thier time trying to FIX other countries?

Why don't they, as I suggested before, just sperate themselves form the rest of the world and live in a giant two sided commune, not that America isn't just a giant two-sided commune as it is.

We'll see Bush in 10 years being arrested while living in a trailer underground and commanding his followers like Waco. Hopefully someof our republican peers will be drinking the cool aidse too and we'll find them all dead in a 50' nmetal box buried underground. Just leave 'em be, where they belong.

by jaqui

the front page of the sun this am?
( saturday issue )

one of my neighbors is the guy holding the sign up in the photo.

by jaqui

it's better to be pissed off than pissed on.

unless you are into watersports

by oz_media

American troops doing door to door searches in Port Hardy.

"Hey, get the f**k out of my house a**hole, I'm trying to watch golf you over zealous clown! And whie you're at it, go home and shoot that stupid Bush bastard, you cornfed, right wing dork. Don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out!"

It wouldn't exactly be like walking into some mud hut full of people who don't know who the hell you are or what language you speak.

Mind you, they probably wouldn't get off of the ferry anyway, they'd be busy going back and forth taking pictures and wondering why they were lied to all these years.

Oh well, if only I could say 'to each his own', but that doesn't apply in the US does it?

by absolutely

true on every count, house.

And Jaqui, how true!

I appreciate that you're both pissed off. I feel like I'm being pissed on.

by jaqui

it's the stupidity of the issue, caused by the us government, pissing on the government yup.

( my wife and daughter are amercian, can't say I hate americans. :) )

by house

I've got nothing against the US people. I've got something against a certain breed of people, which is not dominant in the US by any means, but seems to be representative of the country nonetheless. It is unfortunate.

by oz_media

That still makes you Anti-American, by my study anyway. :D

I have concluded that if you hate all Democrats, they call you a wise neighbour, if you are against ANY Republicans, you are Anti-American.

I just calls 'em as I see 'em. :)

by jaqui

rally at us consulate in vancouver to protest this.
( being organised by the group that were responsable for the rally at the hemp shop )

thinking a few us "stars 'n stripes" going up in smoke until the us police forces are pulled from canada might also help get the point across.

or else the rcmp have officers arresting us citizens for breaking canadian laws in the us.
like promoting hate based on sexual orientation..then bush can be arrested, extradited and tried....

by house

The RCMP was working in conjunction with the DEA. At first, I didn't like the idea of America agents in our country investigating our citizens. Now, I don't really like the fact that the RCMP and the Canadian government played no part in protecting Emery.

In fact, the RCMP were the ones who arrested Emery in order to have him extradited to the US. Why are we not protecting our own here? No balls, I tell ya. :(

I have read a few different accounts here;

1) Vanvouver police have raided Emery's seed bank while RCMP took him into custody in Halifax under the direction of Seattle DEA in order to have him extradited to the US.

2) The DEA raided Emery's seed bank while the RCMP nabbed him in Halifax in order to have him extradited to the US.

3) The Vancouver police and RCMP have done this on their own accord, and now the US demands extradition for the distribution of seeds.

In any account, we have no balls. Option 2 gives us the US grossely overstepping their boundaries, while option 1 gives us the US overstepping their boundaries, but not without consent of our government. Option 3... well... I don't believe a bit of option 3.

chris

by jaqui

the entire investigation was fbi and dea.
vcpd only went into the store, as backup for dea and fbi, and only when ottawa ordered it.

I still say that us policing in canada demands reprisals or equal in exchange.

ie rcmp operating in the usa or nuke the states.

by oz_media

(say it fast a few times)

As for DEA in Canada, we do need to draw the line on international investigations.

The US raises a huge fuss when investigations are to be carried out by RCMP in the USA, in fact it almost never happens anymore. BUT, they expect explicit joint coperation when it comes to THIER watching us. It's one sided as always.

THey want to see everyone's hand but refuse to show thier own.

Security? Well yes it is...so why would you expect others to play along too?

The Seattle DEA ordered his arrest, the RCMP executed his arrest.

IO think the RCMP are getting fed up of raiding him and having him released so quickly.

Even though he is arrested now, they still have to get extradition, which he will inevitably fight also now that he's arrested.

I BELIEVE he has Phil Rankin as one of his key attorneys (might not be abymore) Phil doesn't let anyone get mistreated by 'the system' though so who knows.

What gets me is the OBJECTIVE and cocky US agents who claim that this will stop these operations in the USA.

Emery used to import seeds from well knownsed banks around the world. ALl of these banks also ship seeds globally and advertise in High Times. These people will just buy from the source, even though a lot of the speed and conveniece of dealing with a well known company is 'paused' for the present time.

Here's todays news:

"It's really an attack on our sovereignty."

The search was requested by the U.S. government through the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act, a federal law administered by the Department of Justice.

The warrant was authorized Thursday in B.C.'s Supreme Court, based on an affidavit provided by a Vancouver police officer.

U.S. authorities say the warrant was the result of an 18-month investigation of Emery's international seed-selling business.

The investigation involved about 38 DEA offices across the U.S. and allegedly linked marijuana seeds sold by Emery to indoor grow operations in several states, including New Jersey, Michigan and Florida.

Jeff Sullivan, assistant U.S. attorney, alleged Friday during a news conference that more than 75 per cent of the seeds sold by Emery were sold to people in the U.S., and Emery was making about $3 million a year selling seeds and marijuana-growing equipment."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Americans should like this guy, capitalism at it's best, I bet Bush would be jealous.

by jaqui

that's one of me neighbors.

the entire building seems to think that it's wrong for us agencies to be working in canada.

by oz_media

I can understand international cooperation in some instances. Such as a terrorist or serial killer who is a great threat to the personal security of the world's citizens.

In such a case, I have no problem with forces 'copoerating' in the form of meetings and sharing important data to thwart thier movements.

IN THIS case, it is just wrong, here's another analogy;

I build a website that promotes jay walking because I have a beef with a stop light not being installed in Vancouver. The website is globally available for viewing.
If 1000 people in Oregon start jay walking and breaking the law to support MY cause in Vancouver US police would then be able to request MY extradition to US courts to hold responibility for people breaking the law in the USA.

I know it SOUNDS extreme, but really it is no different.

It's just like the Sharman networks issue with Kazaa. You can't extradite people from Australia and raid thier stores just because thier product finds it's available for Americans to USE. Arrest the Americans who use it instead. Sharman networks isn't breaking global laws.

Where does it end? East indian men being brought to Vancouver for beating thier wives in India, as it is influencing Indians in Vancouver to do so too?

The line will get smaller and smaller unless it is stopped, and yet they CLAIM they are NOT trying to be the world police?

by house

...are soon to be thrown in the can for treason and conspiring against the state?

I understand what you are saying though. Even their own citizens are required to support the Republican administration, else they are accused of being unpatriotic and unsupportive of the troops overseas. Translation - Anti-American.

Ask New York what they think. Hell, if anyone should be supporting this dual term circus act, it should be them. However, that is not the case. If only we could all breathe a little culture into these southern and mid-western apes. ;)

I just realized that this crap doesn't have much to do with Repiblican / Democratic politics - we're going off on a rant here. heh.

by house

I have to say that I'm surprised at the whole scene in BC over the past couple of days. Living in Ontario, I'd orginally thought that most of BC and Alberta were right wing, and that the west felt abandonned throughout this Liberal reign, leaving them to draw closer to American influence and the more conservative views that are representative of Mr Harper's government.

Are there groups of people out west who believe that Emery should go south to face his crimes? It wasn't too long ago that a pot farmer shot up the police in northern Alberta. They made the bonehead connection between drugs and violence back then, when in fact it had nothing to do with weed at all. The guy was a psycho. Plain and simple.

by jaqui

heard any support for the states in this.

western canada does get ignored by ottawa.
a good example of it is the coast guard and naval deployments....
less than 1/3 of the ships are here, with 60%+ of illegal shipping traffic on this coast.

since Vancouver has the puest drugs in the country, being the import center for the country, you would think that they would make sure there were more resources to stop the coke and heroin from getting in.
( the drugs in canada are purer than in the states, and bc has the purest..
you can see it on the streets, someone from easter canada gettingloaded into meat wagon cause thier normal 3 point whack of down killed them here.. it was like doing 6 points of stuff from out east.

by jdclyde

If you sell seed that grow a plant that is what is concidered a "controlled substance", then that IS a drug dealer.

He should have known better than to sell the seeds in regions where it isn't legal.

If he used FedEx or UPS, then he would have saved himself possible federal charges of send this through the mail. They could really do things bad if you send ANYTHING suspect over state/country lines through the US mail.

He should have just let people come up and buy from his store if not in Canada. I have had several products I wanted, (LEGAL) but the places couldn't send it across the boarder. But if I drove up there I could walk in and get it anytime I want. Madness.

Pot has a bad stigma in the US, and that has been a big factor of stopping the legalization. Too many pictures of smelly hippies from the 70's? That and the inability to keep morons from stepping up trying to be a spokesman for it rather than well spoken, up standing citizens doing the talking. If you look and sound like a loser, you hurt the message your trying to get out. Lots of people here hurting that message here.

The money could and should be spend talking care of the meth labs and crack houses that are all over in lower Michigan instead of worring about pot.

Crack heads kill people, pot heads kill doritos.

by absolutely

Seeds do not contain THC, thus are not included on the federal drug schedule. That's why High Times magazine is full of ads to order seeds by mail.

Crack heads kill people because the price of crack is inflated by illegal government prohibition.

Pot heads don't kill people because the DEA doesn't usually waste its time on pot.

If you don't believe me, think about how many alcoholics are known to exist. They don't kill for a fifth because the price is reasonable, not because they aren't equally addicted. But when alcohol was banned, that caused violence just like the present bans.

Ask an economist about "sin taxes" and supply/demand dynamics.

by jdclyde

"only half right", and I agreed about a lot of the same things about the violence and priceing.

The problem is, alcoholics don't kill to get the fifth, they just kill after they get the fifth.

That is what many people are afraid of.

Crack is already a fairly cheap high (or so I have heard, personally have no intention of trying a drug named after a part of my a$$) yet crackhead commit violence to get money to pay for the drugs because they can't hold a job. Then there is the effect it has on society. Ever seen a crack baby? Not a pretty sight.

There are many social issues that do validly get raised if you go with a no-hold-barred, no-judgemental way of life.

I know I don't want pilots and bus drivers being users even if drugs were legal.

As for DEA, there IS a lot of enforcement here in Michigan. There are some smaller communities further on up north that are regularly having fairly major raids. They use planes to spot the crops that people plant in the wood or in the middle of a farmers corn crops or whatever. Pot is the MAIN drug they go after in mid-michigan. Crack and Meths are the main down by Detroit.

by oz_media

At least you can see the diference between hard and soft drugs.

I also think nobody has actuallt taken time to think about how one leads to another.

People use SOFT drugs for many reasons, many similar to smoking a cigarrette.
1) peer pressure
2) escape from teh pressures of reality
3) party fun,
4)enjoying a light hearted escape from the stress of a day
And a few others but only one of the issues above really leads to harder drugs and it isn't because of the drug. It's because of people not being able to deal wit thier lives. Whether it's poverty, parental issues,relationship issues,workissuesetc.

Just as every person who dinks a few beers doesn't end up being a chronic alcoholic living on Rye.

People lok for ways to escape problems, they seek heavier drugs because it takes more to find that release or escape from reality.

But MOST people smoke pot to chill out a bit after a long day, to have a laugh with friends at a movie, to get into party modeat a concert, to simply let thier hair down and relax a bit. But it's back to work in the morning as they have a wife and kids to support still. These people aren't truning from pot to crack, they have no need or desire to get that screwed up, they don't need to escape life, they are just using for recreational enjoyment.

There is a difference and one leads to the other when it is someone needing help to begin with, not help quitting drugs as much as help dealing with issues they are unable to without escaping the world.

People need help, yet people are unable to find it and are left seeking ways to simply forget they are alive.

Not a single case has ever been reported of someone dieing from pot smoking, nobody walks down the street robbing people, nobody goes out looking for ways to get that next joint so they can't stop the withdrawl symptoms, nobody gets hurt, nobody dies, nobody gets shot, nobody gets 'jacked'.

The worst case scenario of a chronic pot head is that they will fall asleep from smoking too much, not pass out, just fall asleep.

And the only way one leads to the other is if the person has OTHER reasons to seek escape, I've never seen s toner decide to get into herione because it sounds like a good high, heroine is KNOWN to be the worst high of all, why would people seek it unless they simply wanted to get so obliterated they can forget life altogether.

I never liked drugs that I did not have my faculties about me, even LSD could be controlled ( I wrote and passed tests in HS while on LSD) it's personal mindset, LSD seems to enhance whatever mood you are in before you take it, if you are an agressive and angered person, you will have violent high, if you are a passive and peaceful person, you will have a pleasant and happy high.

But none of this is because of smoking pot, it just doesn't work that way, the pot heads and crack heads are two different breeds of people entirely.

by jdclyde

"who dinks a few beers".

While I am not telling you to change your typing, that one still made me laugh!

The whole pot issue also remindes me of the porn issue and an old comic I saw once about the myth vs reality of porn.

myth, had an angry man masterbating to a magazine thinking "I need to go rape someone!"

Reality had a picture of a man passed out with mags around him and spent love all over himself.

Porn, like pot, just makes you sleepy. :^O

by beads

Size. You can carry a pack of 20 smokes in your pocket and hardly be noticed while beer... ummm. Just wouldn't work that way.

Now, your wondering what the point is, right? Well, you can take a few joints anywhere. Whereas it a bit more obvious to take the 20 beers anywhere you go. You just have to be able to enforce the social mores before you start setting up resturants with: Smoking, Non-smoking and pot? But I'd love to hear that sometime.

Obviously, theres a bit more to it in the workplace setting and thats what I was eluding to with the social mores thought. Even if it was suddenly legalized it would be difficult to enforce without strong social support. But hey we can't seem to use blinkers here in the US let alone tell someone they couldn't smoke legal pot.

- beads

by jdclyde

make a hottie like Shanna Twain can't be all bad! Of course you do need to hit the mute button so you can enjoy her videos! Woo Woo!

On the other hand, there is still that Brian Adams issue..... (via South Park) "with your flappy little heads" :^O

by oz_media

Yes, I think everyone is aware that the US policy (regardless of who holds office) has been a war on drugs.

I think the issue being referred to though is that it's always the TR republicans that think anything they do, no matter how far they are overstepping international boundaries is justifiable.

It's the republicans here that feel they have a right to enforce thier laws or beliefs elsewhere and that anything they do is correct.

It's nothing to do with Bush directly really, but he is the grand pooh bah of the mindset referred to above. Sig Heil, mein furor Bush!

As for the violence of turf wars and drug houses in America, we are discussing the marijuana trade, not crack, coke or ice here.

by house

I couldn't word that any better myself. I was looking for the right way to explain my thoughts without generalizing all Repubs. Anyways, the issue does not involve these types of politics, I just went off on a tangent while trying to define the type of person that would be for the extradition of Emery, as well as the type of person who believes that someone should face life in prison for the distribution of seeds.

by jdclyde

so that is why I added the additional vices.

And there are still turf wars for marijuana, as well as many ad campaigns against pot. I personally am confused why that seems to be the biggest target around here when it isn't the [b]leader[/b] of most violence in neighborhoods.

by jamesrl

Now lord knows I don't always think the US is right.

But if Canada is arresting someone and shipping them to the US, then its because of a mutual agreement. Canada and the US have extradition treaties, and there are rules and exceptions.

Canada does not hand over someone just for the asking. They must judge whether there is sufficient evidence for trial. And Canada will not extradite someone to the US if they will face the death sentence.

But in general there is a reciprocal arrangement - we will arrest and ship to each other. Now the US CANNOT try someone for crimes committed elsewhere, unless its one of those international human rights violations(like Spain and Pinochet). So the US must have some evidence that the person in question violated US law in the US. If he shipped seeds to someone in the US that might qualify.

James

by oz_media

He is represented yb a fariely good acquaintance and really clever man that most people hate. (my kinda guy :) )

He's worked his little a55 off to get to his post, he's written some good music, some we....you know. But he's a very hard working and generous performer. No I don't care for his work opver the last 10 years either, but he's one hell of a nice guy with one hell of a bull pulling his wagon.

by jdclyde

not that I really have anything against him or his music. I never listen to a station that would play him in the first place. Just had that movie on my mind and so it seemed to fit! B-)

I really didn't even know he HAD any new music! Now THAT is funny.

by oz_media

One point you raised, I don't know how you really intended it;
"I know I don't want poilots and bus drivers being isers even if drugs were legal."

And I agree, these people have a job that places public lives directly into thier control. Alcohol has been legal for years, but pilots and bus drivers still have VERY strict regulations as to drinking before flying. They can still drink, but they cann't drink and fly. Just as a truck driver is expected top be drg and alcohol free too or anyone else with similar responsibility. Do you like ot have a few beers on weekends or Friday nights? You don't have a few beers at work though.

It's personal resposibility, just because it's legal, it doesn't mean you use it irresponsibly.

And the same goes for marijuana or any other drug for that matter, I don't know if there's responsible coke or crack or herion use but there is responsible/recreational marijuana use because it does not have the same addictive nature ofmuch harder drugs.

For people who have never done drugs, I suppose the best way to describe the difference between pot and harder drugs is to think of a ten year old having a small glass of beer with his dad. The kid may even get a little tipsy, but he'll be fine. Now take that same kid and get him to chug a bottle of Jack, he'll be completely out of control and without any personal faculties for some time.

by jdclyde

is that this would come up, esp with the Unions so strongly against drug testing all all. Heaven forbit that I know if the person putting the brakes on my new car is tweeked while he is working.

The other thing that comes into play is like smoking ciggaretts and then be deprived from them for any lenght of time and see what the user is like. Ever seen the people at the end of a long flight? Imagine if that was the pilot?

They say pot isn't addictive and I believe it isn't, physically. But mentally people can still get addicted.

The other fear is, once you allow the first where do you stop? Many are addictive, and so how will that addict get through life. Would have to have more testing for anything were they would pose a risk to themselves or the people around them.

We already have the same issues with booze, and now that we allow people to call alcoholism a "disease" makes it harder to hold people accountable for their actions.

And no, I don't drink during the work day. The same couldn't be said for my last job though, hail the union shop. And I would see the pot heads toke down at every break, but even though the company KNEW it, they couldn't do anything about it unless the person appeared "impaired".

by oz_media

Something like that can be done ripped on acid, depends on the person.

I get your point though, it's just that things lik ethat are second nature to most mechanics, I have been blind drunk and put a 4-speed transmission together without issues.

But I know what you're saying.

As for people becoming MENTALLY addicted, again this reverts to my previous comments, these are people seekign ANY release formlife, thier problems are a lot deeper than the drug use they adopt to escape that reality though.

Nobody I know is MENTALLY addicted to pot, they often think they might be, but can go on two week international vacations without it and have no problems, even though they would LIKE to smoke pot to be able to relax and really have some fun on thier vacations. It's a preference, but not an addiction hat leads to irrational behaviour or violence and crime.

As for the union comments, that's up to the union to control in the workplace and deem what is acceptable for the nature of he work being performed not the government.

I have worked in an office in the heart of Vancouver's business district, Bentall center, and seen middle aged guys in 3-piece suits sharing a joint at lunch, I have seen a secretary smoke a few puffs before heading back after lunch. When I was younger, I had an employer give me money to go down the street and buy a couple of joints so I could relax after a stressful meeting. Some guys are better off when they've had a few puffs, not stoned out of thie rmoinds but just enough to shake it all off for a while and be a little more peaceful.

I think it's the responsibility of the person and the emplyer as to what is deemed acceptable and what isn't, just like anything else. Som eplaces don't min dpeopl e[laying games on PC's to escape work for a while, some allow music to be played or personal email to be checked etc. But in other cases they do not. But it's not something the government needs to control, as far as workplace useage and ethics are concerned.

by house

I still like picking on him though. I like the old eighties tunes, but can do without his newer stuff.

I remember seeing a small documentary on his music. When he started out, apparently he couldn't hit a single note on vocals. It takes a lot of work to be a singer / songwriter when you don't have a knack for singing in the first place.

by house

Some poor pop-blues exploration from the late nineties. "The only thing that looks good on me... ta-ta-ta... is you!" Nothing spectacular.

We have the unfortunate situation of CRTC legislation that enforces a certain percentage of Canadian content on the radio. It wouldn't be so bad if they played some decent Canadian music. Instead, we are stuck with the likes of Shania, Celine, and yes... good ol' Bryan Adams. And even that wouldn't be so bad if they were thrown around with a bit of variety. :(

by jdclyde

First, from reading your other replies it is understood this wasn't declairing war on the Republican nation. :)

Second, yes I saw you drag that one out from under some rock. Throw it back.

Third, drug violence. Didn't that also start up the anti-gun groups as well? After all, if a gun was illegal then that drug dealer would not have used it because there would be a law saying so? Oops, forgot. Gun laws only affect people that obey the laws in the first place.

Fourth, Rant on my friend, rant on.

by house

People, myself included, have made the connection that strong arming the drug community would only increase it's distribution, while also instigating a more serious breed of criminal activity. However, stiffer gun regulations in Canada haven't increased violence and crime in any way. Now I'm confused.

And you are so right in that 'laws don't affect criminals'. The way I see it, more severe sentensing will only cause more severe reactions when one finds himself stuck in a corner. So why not relax the laws that are not really moral issues in the first place. If I have a joint in my hand, and you're coming at me with a summary conviction, such as a fine, I would be more submissive than if you were threatening me with life imprisonment. It is human nature to sustain one's life. 25 years? - you may as well kill me before I kill you.

by jdclyde

The tougher the penalties, the more of a cornered rat they will be and that is how you got your shoot out. It really is now a "nothing to loose" situation.

I apply a very similar method with the rasing of my boys. I have less rules than the soon-to-be-EX does, but I am more concistent with the enforcement of the rules that I do have. I also have a REASON for the rules and this reason is explained so as to be understood rather than just being on the rag or "because I said so".

The more rules you have, the more rules you must enforce. If you don't enforce the rules, you are undermining your own authority and crediblity.

Don't make a rule you can't enforce.
Don't make a rule you can't justify.
Don't make a rule you break yourself.

by jdclyde

if the Canadian government WANT to do something to stop his business but because of political fall out can't or won't?

Everyone is pissed at the US anyways, so let them take the heat for taking care of our problem? My understanding is your government has tried to stop him more than once?

Just a thought, because as you very acurately pointed out there would be no extradition if they didn't have what the Canadian government felt was a valid case.

by oz_media

Still believe it is a gateway drug. Cimpletely ignoring the fact that it is people 'seeking' a gateway that have the problem.

I know why you brought it up, but I must explain the differences when it is raised as that's what too many people, NOT in the know think. Such as those who lump it together as one problem.

WHY do people use drugs should be more of a concern that what drugs lead to what. That's easy, drugs let us escape pressures. Just like having a beer or two after work.

One could just as easily say that beer is a gateway drug, it leads to hard alcohol drinking and alcohol abuse, NO KIDDING! But it's not the beer that does it, it's the person driunking the beer that needs help. IN the US, it seems that if the government spends tax money to help try to FIX these individuals, the right wing goes crazy! THAT'S MY MONEY THAT I EARNED!

But they have no problem spending all the money, make that wasting all the money, on a war against drugs, which has lost more money for the US than if the government had been buying everyone in the nation free lottery tickets each week.

Fix the poeple and you reuce the problems.

Acohol causes far more problems in America AND Canada that selling pot seeds or cultivating marijuana has or will ever do.

They see a LOT of money going into a Canadian business, and THAT is wrong, unless the US government is cashing in somehow.

by oz_media

Sharman networks was APPRENTLY making thier software available for people in Caliornia and that's where a great deal of copyright abuse was being performed.
Therefore the US tried to have Sharman networks face trial in California, not gonna happen.

Yes they said that in this case, the courts did place a bench warrant out for Emery based on the recommendations of US authorities.

He should therefore be tried in Canada, it's a Canadian warrant.

As always, it's the people expecting government to act on thier behalf that creates these issues, they simply cannot see the problem is in thier own backyard and they always seem to look at the most bizarre reasons for internal issues. When it's right under thier nose the whole time.

by jamesrl

In fact you can legally appeal extradition. I do recall a case where Canada was extraditing someone who was later convicted of murder. He was wanted in Canada for assault, and he asked for the right to stand trial for his Canadian crimes before being sent to the US. It didn't fly. The crown had the right to defer its trial.

It was appealed again. Canada did have the right to be reasonably "satisfied" that the evidence was sufficient for trial - in other words, if the same evidence was presented to a Canadian judge, a trial would happen. And in that case he lost the appeal and was sent south. You may think its funny, but I can tell you that on criminal matters, both our systems are based on British common law, and its not out of line to draw a US precedent(though British ones are preffered to American in Canadian courts).

James

by oz_media

The canadian government has passed laws based on the best interests and desires of the people of Canada.

If hat means they can't keep someone in jail that they would LIKE to, then so be it, it's doesn't really show a flawed system. These aren't antiquated laws that we hang onto from our past.

SO if the peoplein Canada want that freedom, if th government comes to a majority vote and passes a law allowing such issues to go with very minor penalties then that's the way it must be. We can't say, 'yeah but I really wish we could lock him up anyway'. That is not the law here.

There are a couple of reasons this has been allowed:

The Canadian government has it's head so far up US arses that it can't see the light until the US opens it's mouth.

The Candian government is sick and tired of such a clever man using his freedoms to see his way safely around poorly formed Canadian laws. Sick him on the US and let them deal with him for a while. Not realizing just how muchinfluence this ONE man actually has when he addresses the people, he will find a similar following/support in the US, especially in Seattle as he does here. I don't know howmany Americans I've met when Vancouver has it's annual hemp parade and smok-in.

It's a great booking opportunuty for local bands too.

But these smoke-in's and hemp fests go in in many states too each year, just a litle quieter and more low profile than here, where it gets news airtime and front page of all local newpapers, not in protest of the event but in support of the flawless way it goes off each summer and how cooperative police are, not making arrests but just there in case of troubles.

Emery hits the states, I wondr if he is making up North American tour t0shirts now. Damn, could've got in on that one!

by oz_media

Bob Dylan, Niel Young?

Great songwriters, and apparently great performers too?

Bryan Adams is a god eprformer though, a good advocate for the causes he supports and Canada in general. On teh two brief occasions when I've met him, both in early to mid 80's, he's been an upstanding and very nce guy. His concerns and comments are genuine, he's not flash, he's not gliter, he's just a guy who writes great music, even if it has left the realm of my personal taste.

by house

I wouldn't go that far. I hope that was another typo. heh.

He is a good guy. I just wish the CRTC wouldn't hammer our poor ears with his music everyday.

by jdclyde

Even though the laws have been changed, do you really think that a political enemy would get away like that? Once you make an enemy, they will FIND a way to get you. I would say they found their way, wouldn't you?

Who is laughing now, Emery or the officials that tried to stop him before?

by oz_media

He puts on a rocking show, he gets the entire audience involved, he is great on a stage, he works the band he works the crowd, he's not just famous because he's overplayed, that's usually more detrimental than anything else, as you show in your own comments.

by house

Damn Oz - you beat me to it. There is a video link of Emery on CTV or CBC... anyways, you can get to it from the front page of Pot-TV. It shows Emery taking a bong hit from a local supporter while the police are escorting him into the court.

Did the police arrest the person who packed the bowl? No. Did this bong hit count towards his alleged crimes? No. This recent fiasco seems to be a political move that I've yet to decipher. More than likely, it's Canada bending over to take it up the shoot.

by jdclyde

I don't know if it is legal to buy and sell the seeds in the US or not. Sorry, just not up on my drug enforcement knowledge.

IF it is illegal, then anyone importing this into the courty would be breaking the law.

This all assumes that the sale of the seeds is indeed illegal.

Sending something to a place where it is illegal IS breaking the law, not just the person recieving it. Just often harder to get your hands on.

spammers for instance.

by house

is an understatement. Like any other music, it is detrimental to their fan base. I'm tired of hearing Rush at noon everyday.

I never get sick of the Hip though.

by jamesrl

on the first CTV link on the first post.

It says he was not being arrested for anything he did in Canada, but for what he allegedly did in the US, including not only seed distribution but money laundering.

If Emery was laundering money in the US......

James

by jdclyde

The people who WRITE laws are not the same people who ENFORCE laws.

Just because the laws have changed, does not mean the people who have tried to prosecute him in the past don't still want him out of the way.

Sure is flattering to think that the US is so domanate over Canada that they will cater to our every whim, regardless of being justified by law or not? I somehow have a hard time believing that is the case, but it sure gave me a chuckle for a few minutes.

"Thank you sir, may I have another?" :^O

by oz_media

I didn't se the typos either but yes it is quite funny!

Min dyou many beer drinkers become dinks I guess, so dinking a beer may 'fit' for some.

The porn comments, too true and too funny to be considered. :D

But you're right, people used to say to me, "WOW, did I ever get high, I'm TOO high, how do I come down."

"uh, here, have a bag of Cheetos and a pillow, see you in the morning." LOL. that's about it.

In my teens, I don't ever remember getting stoned and wanting to commit a crime. I did get pissed and roll a gas station attendant though, while wielding a firmly clenched fist and making my best ugly face, just for the free smokes of course, and they were probably less than $2 at the time too!

Pot and crime, aside from possessing it to begin with, are not related directly. Indirect effects are due to people who need drugs to escape problems, whether legal or not, these poeople will seek these vices to escape a reality they can't face. This done NOT speak for the average or even the majority of pot smokers though.

In Vancouver, they have clean needle exchange and injection sites, where addicts can have a safe, clean place to do thier drugs. Seems absurd really, but it does work. At first people were staying home and not using these outlets, thinking somethin gelse is going to happen if they do, but sinc ethen, they have found it to be an excellent way of at least working WITH the problem instead of trying to pretend it doesn't exist or that stopping pot smokers will help in any small way.

The results have been positive,

Aids and HIV is reduced because of regulated and clean tools and preparation.

The disposal of needles in public parks wher echildren play and animals run, is reduced.

The number of people reaching out for help has increased as they learn to trust the peopl ethey are dealing with. These people DO promote other avenues and ways to get help whilst ensuring the safety and cleanliness of injected drug use are controlled.

There's always mreo than one way to solve a problem, now I am not by ANY means suggesting that these needle banks and safe injection sites are stopping drug use, but they are helpin greduce the effects as well as helping SOME to find a way out.

I KNOW a person, VERY educated, several college degrees who ended up living on skid row and using heroine after a divorce where he lost his family and livlihood as an accountant. HE managed to get help, HE managed to move away, HE managed to stop (though getting Methodone from his doctor and having a legal marijuana use exception) HE managed to get a hom eaway from the crime and drug epicenter, HE managed to stay alive, when he was nearly dead.

Yes he is HIV positive and also has Hep C, but he has sought treatment, he has found friends, even wit hwith former family that had disowned him, he has found there is another way. He only managed BECAUSE there is help readily available andbecause his problem is addressed and understood, instead of just locking him up where without ANY question whatsoever, he'd be dead now.

by oz_media

Marc Emery was busted last month too and the month before that. I just didn't realize that someone as clever as you would notice.

I remember this being a major issue I have complained of a lot, it seems every month I feel a need to talk about Marc Emery being arrested due to US interference.

Now did you have something worthehile or relevant to say, or are you just trying to be clever and thorw a comment back at me when it doesn't apply. Unlike my making the same comment when yoru broken record started bitching about money being given to those whoe didn't earn it.

Grow up and at least try and make sense next time, man you've been looking dumber every day lately.

When you are trying to say touche, you need to be referring to a similar issue you know. Aren't you a CLEVER little boy!

by jdclyde

what my comment in the liberty post meant. Just seeing each of you posting that same post out of context looks very mature. ;\

by jdclyde

I have also seen people that have a hard time doing a quality job BEFORE they got stoned.

Many do not just take the edge off, and I do not have faith in the human spirt for them to control themselves.

The unions should decide if it is good for the union/company/consumer if the workers should be able to be under the influince or not? Fox watching the hen house here. The only thing the union cares about is keeping the dues coming in and keeping their way of life safe. Ie make as much money as possible while doing as little work as possible. Gee, wonder why North American cars often don't rate as high as many EU cars do for safety/quality/dependablity?

And yes, lots of drugs on the assembly lines, not just pot. Where do you think most lemon cars come from?

by oz_media

For some reason selling seeds is illegal in Canada AND the USA. But it has been done for ever, not from Canada but by mail order from Amsterdam for years.

WHy haven't the US DEA agents started having people in Amsterdam arrested, their shops shut down and then have them extradited to the US for trial?

Because Canada is RIGHT HERE! The pople are just like Americans and they bend over for American authority, well the government does anyway. I know quite a few RCMP who don't like the amount of US intervention in Canadian law either.

Criminals bring guns to Canada illegally, do we have the gun shop owners in the US arrested?

Criminals will commit crimes nomatter who is put in jail, these grow ops of which they speak, are not going to be shut down if Emery is put ni jail. If they KNOW of these specific grow ops, why aren't THEY shut down instead and put THEM in jailfor life due to cultivation for the purpose of trafficking?

It's much wasier to flex your might at another country as bein at fault that's why. Why address a problem or even admit you have a problem when it canbe attributed as someone else's fault?

It's pure denial, if it wasn't for Canada these criminals wouldn't exist? Who are they trying to kid this time?

America needs some self evaluation, some REAL objective evaluation not just the 'we are great, quick wave your flag' type of self evaluation.

You guys face some REAL problems with crime and violence that we don't see here, where the problem is supposed to be originating. Time to stop the denial and fix your own country, then when you can set an example, use that example to influence others.

Believe me, if you solve drug and crime issues as a nation, WITHIN your nation, others ARE going to be all ears.

by jdclyde

If he broke the law, why are you suprised?

The stance in the US is that track the drugs back to the source. Remember when we went down to panama? The only difference is WE didn't go into Canada to get this guy.

What you or I think about what he is doing doesn't matter squat. If you break a law, someone somewhere is going to try to ding you on it.

This really makes most of the discussion "pot should be legal in the US", as that is what he was doing. Bringing pot into the US in seed form.

As for the guns, if a DEALER is illegally selling firearms in Canada, you bet your a$$ I would want him sent up there for prosocution. There are already enought nuts looking for any excuse to ban all guns without letting someone else make EVERYONE look like a criminal.

Like that a$$bag rosie odonal who wants all guns confiscated. "If you need help, call a cop", yet she turns around and tries to get her bodyguard to get a concealed carry permit. It is good enough to defend her, but not anyone else. They have also shown that many of your ANTI-gunners own and carry a gun themselves.

Just like many senators have been busted with drugs, yet they are the ones writing the anti-drug laws.

Too many laws, too much government.

by beads

Does this mean that, I, as an American can't relieve myself of the burden of being American and go run to Canada when I can no longer tolerate the insane conservative politics of this country any more?!?

Please say it isn't so!

Another embarassed American,

- beads

by ben "iron" damper

Grow up huh? Sure thing, I promise to grow up when you promise to stop supporting terrorists.
Something tells me you have a huge stack of Celine Deion CD's.

by jamesrl

If Celine Dion had such a loyal fan base in Canada, she would not have setup more or less permanent residence in Las Vegas. Guess those Las Vegas loving, Celine Dion CD buying americans support terrorists huh?

As for Canada supporting terrorists, tell that to the widows of the Canadian troops killed in Afghanistan.

Think Canada is soft on terror? One of Canada's most Famous Prime Ministers was Pierre Eliot Trudeau, a "reformed" socialist. When there were two political kidnappings in Quebec in October 1970, he invoked the war measures act, in essense martial law. We had armoured personel carriers patrolling Ottawa streets, police had unrestricted arrest and search and seizure powers.

Tell me how Canada supports terrorists, without using Bill O'reilly to make your argument for you.

James

by house

stop supporting terrorism and buying Celine Dion CDs. I'm a Canadian. Remember? It's in our blood.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Dallas Stars? I should have known. Go Leafs Go!!!!

by beads

Only if you could squeeze light Brent crude oil out of the seeds. Then! He would be jealous.

Is it me or does most of this sound rather misdermeanor but on my much 'grander' scale?

- beads

by itgirli

I feel that the US had no right. And I'm really sick of them putting such a big deal on it here in the US. I think the US has bigger issues to deal with other than the partaking/distribution of an herbal plant that has less damaging effects that alcohol. The only thing that makes me want to move to Canada. Luckily there are thousands of things about Canada that are keeping me from making that move. I can't believe they "ordered" Canadian officals to hand him over. Canada should have told the grand US of A to go screw themselves. Seattle has never set well with me anyhow.

by maxwell edison

.
1. The U.S. did not "order" any such thing. And to suggest as much is taking an ounce of truth and whipping up a ton of lies, something Oz Media does quite well -- and quite often. (Or he's just stupid and repeats the lies when others spew them, just like a parrot.) For example, under the current extradition treaty between the USA and Canada, such a thing can only be requested, but never ordered. And it's something a Canadian court could prevent. Moreover, if the person in question is not breaking an identical Canadian law, then no extradition could possibly take place. If growing and selling marijuana, and/or seeds, and/or anything else marijuana related, and/or money laundering wasn't ALSO illegal in Canada, then they couldn't extradite the guy to the USA. A person might say, yea but the Canadians turn a blind-eye to such things even though it's illegal. But that would only suggest that they, too, have laws we might deem unfair, and/or they have similar problems up there as we do down here, and that is some laws are not applied equally, and/or legitimately, and/or in accordance with the wishes of the governed. In other words, they should get their own legal house in order before they criticize our legal house for having the same amount or same kind of disorder.

2. If they (Canadians) claim, on one hand, that the USA has somehow pressured Canadian authorities into capitulation concerning a small and insignificant pot smoker, but on the other hand they (Canadians) claim to stand on their principled ground -- and stand up to the USA -- when it comes to something major, such as the global war on terrorism, something just doesn't jibe. Are the Canadian authorities strong-willed and principled individualists, regardless of the pressure applied by the USA, or are they a bunch of spineless jelly-fish who get weak-kneed when the USA says jump? These USA bashing Canadians want it both ways. Were they lying then, or are they lying now?

3. Don't believe what you read in these threads, especially if it's being posted by an obvious and admitted America hater. It's the epitome of bias. And don't necessarily believe me, either. Before you jump to any conclusions, do some simple research on both the extradition agreement between Canada and the USA, and see how it's been applied -- and it works both ways, I might add. And then read some unbiased news stories about the account.

4. If you think that the drug laws in the USA are unfair (and I might add that I would agree with that notion), then I would ask you this. Have you lobbied your representatives to repeal the laws that you (and I) deem stupid and/or are an infringement on a person's personal liberty? If we have laws that are an infringement on a person's individual liberty, it's only because we, collectively, have allowed it to happen. I call on you to stop complaining about it..........no, check that. I call on you to not only continue to complain about it, but vow to do whatever is necessary to put a stop to it -- and do what you can to restore the notion of individual liberty in the USA.

by oz_media

There's just no end to the third party lies you are intent on bleating today is there.

As for your example of how I spin the truth, in reference to his arrest being ordered, my first line of the fist post here states; "US police in Seattle asked Vancouver police to arrest political party leader and marijuana activist Marc Emery for extradition to the USA."

So your implication that I have suggested his arrest was ordered is a bonified 100% lie. As seen here: "(Or he's just stupid and repeats the lies when others spew them, just like a parrot.) For example, under the current extradition treaty between the USA and Canada, such a thing can only be requested, but never ordered."

For example? That's not an example, that's a lie, I said they "...asked Vancouver police to arrest..."

TECHNICALLY they asked the RCMP to act on the issue, not VPD though.

Talking of spineless jellyfish, you can't even stand up for yourself without relying on your little third party asides to make a point.

Got a problem, tell ME about it you wuss! What a jouvenile little turd you are! A pure baby who gets all whiny when he doesn't get his way, gets proven wrong and caught telling lies, then gets all poopy pants about it. I have never seen such a display of infantile bahaviour from someone claiming to be an adult before.

First of all, please PROVE YOUR LIE, that I hate America, and provide links to where I have said so. You're good with links that suit your cause, I am sure oyu can take something out of context that will work. Remember, you claim that I say I hate AMERICA, not just childish cowards such as yourself.

As for what I posted, I posted several links to US and Canadian news sources of information on the subject, should I have looked for Bush's comments so they are valid enough for you to believe, sheep boy?

Baaaaaa, I only believe what Bush says, nobody else else is worth the consideration, Baaaaaaaaaaaaa. You sorry litle misguided boy.

The US had requested Emery's arrest and, as several of us have explained now, it was decided by a Canadian court in Ottawa that an arrest warrant should be put out on behalf of the US.

At least read the posts before you lie, it will help you retain integrity, if you can find any left, perhaps borrow some from a democrat or something.

I just can't believe how small you've become, your rants are unjustified, out of place, incorrect and in a third party manner seen in preshool kids.

Did they wait to teach you that in high school, or was it post secondary edcation in your case?

Now run along before your mom sees you using her computer or the shepherd wonders why his little sheep is not with the rest of them.

you obviously haven't read the thread nor anything else regarding this issue, you have simply lied endlessly and hoped that your wish came true. Core values and mature, ethical behaviour from someone who CLAIMS he's of superior inteligence, my a55.

WHat tiny shred of integrity you clung to for dear life in the past is simply a lost hope now. You show no consistecy, other than the ability to repeat yourself and make baseless assertions and 'untruths'.

What is it you like to call people...Disingenious?

Whatever Maxwell, you don't really need flaming I guess, you've sunk your ship all by yourself.

by oz_media

Man, you should really read up on this.

He is the BC Marijuana Party leader, has run for Mayor of Vancouver twice, is known from cost to coast by millions and is the largest advocate for legalization of marijuana, one of the key voices in having it decriminalized, though not his suggested resolution more than the governments attempt to make it appear that they are understanding the issue.

But this LIE is just pathetic, everyone here knows exactly what I hate is American politics, which we have established earlier here, is seen as; anti-democrat is being clever and astute
anti-Republican means anti-American or a terrorist. You clueless moron, you still can't comprehend the simplest issues can you? Your comments, as always, suit only what you wish to believe and not what people have actually said. Yet you have the audacity, and ignorance to claim that others are spinning the turth??

"And then read some unbiased news stories about the account."

So what's considered unbiased news, Maxwell? This outta be good.

"Have you lobbied your representatives to repeal the laws that you (and I) deem stupid and/or are an infringement on a person's personal liberty?"

Who's Marc Emery, Max? That insignificant little pot smoker you were referring to? the voice of the people, the one who represents those who support him in the thousands wherever he goes. I know you are referring to Americans standing up and saying something, but Marc Emery is the result of the following and suport for the voice he has in Canada. He was going to bat for the people a long time before he ever opened the Hemp Store or the seed bank.

In the US, someone such as that would nevr have a voice anyway, your government and local law enforcement would see to it that his freedom of speech and ability to raise awareness on these issues is quickly muted, as always with the 'undersireables' that don't follow the rest of the flock.

by oz_media

I was touching on the point that ineastern Canada, where there are actually homcides by handgum, they are usually found to be people from teh US or guns from teh US not Canada that are killing Canadians.

What I was getting at is a gun dealer selling someone a gun and then that person killing a Canadian with it, we should be looking for the killer not the arms dealer first.

As for providing America with POT, that's crao too. Seeds are not pot, and neither is the cannabis plant. It is the cultivation, removal of the buds and the selling of it that's the problem, for some retarded reason, they actually think it will stop those major grow ops, now there;s a laugh. All it takes is five minutes on a search engine and your seeds ae on the way, from all over the world. As I said, are they gonna try bustin people in Amsterdam next? Never in a million years, Canada's easy though.

by jaqui

Oz, it's only illegal here if in suffiecient quantity to be cultivating for sale.

small quantities aren't illegal.

you were at the track probably on canabis day. ;)
they recount existing laws and highlight the limitations as well as changes to them.

they stopped giving away a baggie of weed and started giving away a baggie of seeds, as it's not prohibited.
( Canabis Day, july 1st at the art gallery here. )

by oz_media

That's usually a key camping weekend. This year I was at Kensington lake with a few old friends from the interior.

by house

I know more smokers than non-smokers when it comes to the industry. I know a whole crew that work on the rails stoned out of their tree. They are the most efficient welders this side of Ontario, and they are snatched up to do jobs all over the province. You catch them on a dry spell, and they'll only do half a days work.

On a funnier note, the first time that I got high when I was a kid, I was helping my uncle put up insulation in the attic during a heat wave. I remember the little fibres sticking my tongue while I tried desperately to hold it up with my face. To this day, I hate doing insulation. And when I see those stupid pink flamingo bags in the hardware store, I get all itchy and pasty.

To boot, he lends me his bike with the warped front wheel in order to get home, about 2 clicks away through downtown. Damn flamingo.

by jdclyde

I asked if the sale of the seeds is currently illegal.
You stated yes.
This is grounds to arrest someone.
Why the suprise?
You not liking something holds no relevence. I don't like the way our highways drom from 70mph to 55mph just because it is within so many hundreds of feet of population, dispite being enclosed with 8 foot walls on each side. If I choose to disregard this and get caught I will not win in court just because I don't like that law.

If you don't like a law, you have to change it not disregard it. If it is legal in some places and not others then go to where it is legal or be prepared to deal with the consiquences of your chosen disregard.

As for US guns, very few guns are legally purchased with the intent to commit a crime. The only way your claim would hold ANY merit would be if the dealer illegally sold a firearm to someone. This idea is as stupid as suing GM because a drunk driver took out your family with one of their cars.

Illegal guns come from all over and end up all over. A tougher gun law would stop someone from using an illegal gun how? They don't CARE if they are breaking a law, so the laws only end up restricting the people that wouldn't be a threat in the first place, the law abiding citizen.

by maxwell edison

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Itgirli said, "I can't believe they 'ordered' Canadian officials to hand him over".

I replied to her (not you) saying, "The U.S. did not 'order' any such thing. And to suggest as much is taking an ounce of truth and whipping up a ton of lies....."

Therefore, she had the impression that it was ordered; and she apparently got that impression by reading your account of the story. Thus, my comment, ".....something Oz Media does quite well -- and quite often".

So you proved my point. Either your message "suggested" such a thing, or else Itgirli would not have had that impression, or else you're flaming the wrong person. Perhaps you should give HER a piece of your mind for misquoting you.

Now go smoke another doobie.

by itgirli

I put "ordered" in quotes not because it was true, but because of the way they do business in Seattle. It was a joke. Like "the man" keeping them "down". Reading too much into quotes is deluding both your brains. Have a toke on me.

by maxwell edison

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...and it ain't me.

But I'll pass, thanks just the same.

(Title credits to Mike Brewer and Tom Shipley)

by itgirli

I think that if they would just legalize pot, they would have far fewer shootings. Pot heads really don't have the time or effort to kill someone when they are on a mission for fritos and M&Ms.
Just my two cents.
Not that I would know anything about it.
I've heard stories.
right.

by maxwell edison

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.....a small and insignificant pot smoker.

He ran for Mayor? BFD. Where did he finish, fifth? Anybody can get their name on a ballot, even an insignificant pot smoker like Marc Emery.

And if he is, as you suggest, "the voice of the people, the one who represents those who support him in the thousands wherever he goes....."

Well, okay, whatever you say, dude. If he's "the voice of the people", I guess we know what you consider important. And you said it, not me.

Now go smoke another doobie. But then again, perhaps we now know why your messages are so scrambled -- because you've smoked too many doobies.......brain cells.......scrambled.......this is your brain........this is your brain on drugs........

And remember, don't bogart that joint, dude.

by maxwell edison

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Looking at your original message, you said, "I think the BIGGEST issue of all, is that he was ORDERED arrested after DEA agents had investigated his business. The thought of US police ordering the arrest a Canadian (icon) IN Canada was really just too much of the 'US in Canada's businesss' for most to stomache."

YOU SAID IT, and then you claimed you didn't say it.

Scrambled brains, indeed. You've really been smoking too much pot.

Note: As of 08/02/05, that original message, the one starting the discussion, was last edited on 07/30/05. Now don't go edit that part out.

by maxwell edison

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The story that Oz linked to said:

"Vancouver Constable Howard Chow said Canadian law enforcement was approached by the DEA to aid in the investigation........The DEA came to us about a year ago surrounding Marc Emery and asked for our assistance in the criminal investigation that had to do with trafficking a controlled substance, Chow told CTV.ca News. It's an ongoing investigation. There may be further charges that come out of this.....".

Oz Media spin and interpretation, in his own words:

"I think the BIGGEST issue of all, is that he was ORDERED arrested after DEA agents had investigated his business. The thought of US police ordering the arrest a Canadian (icon) IN Canada was really just too much of the 'US in Canada's businesss' for most to stomache."

What a scramble-brain.

Yep, he sure did say ORDERED!

by jdclyde

But you did change the tone near the bottom of your post.

"I think the BIGGEST issue of all, is that he was ORDERED arrested after DEA agents had investigated his business. The thought of US police ordering the arrest a Canadian (icon) IN Canada was really just too much of the 'US in Canada's businesss' for most to stomache."

You changed the whole tone of your post just like Max claimed in that the US ORDERED the Canadian government to do this.

Why was your post not "clueless in Canada" because of the Canadian government going along with this? But they are without fault as I see from your posts. And the 11 times they DID try to arrest him that you talked of? More clueless in Canada?

But yes, everyone in the US knows that they are nuts in Seatle and Califoria.