49 replies
by jaqui
1) as good a way to back up as any
2) yes it will.
by hal 9000
Instead of coping the contents of One HDD to another which Windows will not allow you to do you can use a Program like Ghost and Clone the HDD to the USB drive and that will allow you to recover from a crash or something else.
Just a few things to remember here though
1 [b]DO NOT[/b] leave the USB drive plugged in when not in use as it can be damaged by something going wrong with the system and you'll loose all your DATA.
2 [b]You'll Need[/b] Some form of Cloning software that is capable of being booted from whatever you have available generally this should be a floppy but a lot of new units don't have these and you'll need to be able to use the USB ports when cloning or recovering from something going wrong while still effectively in DOS.
Col ]:)
by mmogano
by hal 9000
Still Backup your data on a regular basis.
I've seen many HDD's fail and in every case the cost of Data Recovery has run into the many $K AU at least generally around 9K to recover the data where it hasn't been backed up.
While the recovery CD will help you out of a Windows failure it will not protect your Data in the even of a drive failure so some form of backup is essential.
Just another thing to remember if you are backing up photos according to Kodak they are only safe on a CD/DVDr for about 3 years and then they will start to degrade. That is a very general idea but something to keep in mind if you are using CDr/DVDr for a DR plan.
Cheers
Col ]:)
if your backups are 3 years old you have other problems. good CDs and DVDs run 20 cents, a usb flash drive can hold all your current documents after a week or two toss the contents on a CDR, once a month back up the drive to a USB harddrive and you will never need it. skip the backups and viri and gremlens will hunt you down to screw with your data
big businesses need to backup daily or weekly(bigger systems attract more gremlens)
by haasman
.. a backup program such as Acronis, Ghost or Stomp. Then separately copy your documents and settings to the same drive and any other user specific folders you have created along the way.
Haasman
by rkuhn040172
Not truly disaster proof since it is onsite, but buy, be given, hunt down, whatever an older PC and turn it into a server, backup system, you name it.
Plenty of open source software out there to do this.
Then you have a backup system in case your primary system gets hosed. Aka, another on-line PC, additional backup storage, copies of files, etc.
Lastly, if the PC isn't too old, you have the additional benefit of somewhere to house a website, your own email, a firewall (although I'd recommend hardware instead), whatever. Just another PC to play with and have functionality as well.
by netjustin
by mmogano
by jardinier
I am also aware of the 3-year limit. The only method I know of for long-term storage of digital images is to make a colour print which has a minimum life of 50 years.
After learning this I didn't bother to get my top-end digitial camera out of the box but went on using my film camera.
It is my strong suspicion that basic digital cameras were released purely to con people to spend money to keep up with the times. And a very successful and profitable con it has been.
by mmogano
by jardinier
I was just p*ssed off myself after buying a top-of-the line digital camera (Olympus with 10X optical zoom).
Yes, they are quite useful for the applications which you list.
by ozi eagle
The problem with film is that it is getting harder and harder to get them processed. In our city Kodak does not process film anymore. Independents may.
Also have you heard that AGFA has gone belly up?
by jardinier
All pharmacists as well as photo processing specialists carry plenty of stocks of Kodak colour negative film (also Fuji) and processing is done overnight, but by independent companies.
Hello there in Geelong. My dad used to teach at Geelong Grammar many moons ago.
by old guy
Not trying to be smart alec about this but I would like to know. Sorry but I haven't heard of the 3 year limit on digital pictures. If a digital picture is made up of 0's and 1's how would that degrade? Wouldn't the same thing happen to any part of data and/or computer images?
I do know that CD's can be damaged but if they are not damaged how would the data degrade?
You might want to read this article which gives a lot of insite to digital storage.
A shortened version of this URL is http://tinyurl.com/calma
by old guy
I must have missed that class. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. At least I'm keeping my wedding videos on magnetic tape and not discarding them.
I'm not sure, though, if you were aware the link had to have a user ID and password with ComputerWorld to get it. I do have but some folks may not.
by dr dij
commercial CDs - software or music - are produced by molding to a metal master. they don't degrade for much longer.
burn at home CDs (and some software, esp low volume product, comes on these also) are created differently: the laser burns a dye layer to change color. problem is the dye leaks over to adjacent pits after a while, esp in cheap disks (and later in more expensive ones probably). cheap disks: 2-3 years, expensive ones: 5-10?
Far as I know there is no way to tell if cheap disk or not. If you are in a humid area such as Florida or Costa Rica, it can be much quicker: a hospital there found that mold grew on the dye later, probably making for interesting nature photographs but destroying their data.
I wish they would make a good archival data product. I would buy it. And 3 year old backups for things that don't change like a collection of digital photos - shocks you when you pop them in to copy back to HD and disk won't work.
color print? not digital, so there would be a bit of loss rescanning these. this kind of stuff adds noticeable blurriness to photos.
by jamesrl
When I was working for Corel, we used to be told by the manufacturers of WORM optical drives that the media should be good for at least 10 years. Of course the technology had only been out for a few years at that point. I wonder by now whether they have been proven correct.
James
by benducklow
Don't worry so much about degradation on CD/DVD media. I along with probably 98% of people have had CDR media well over 3 years and the media is just fine. There's a big thread on Slashdot about this topic.
Just my 2 cents
by dr dij
I pulled out pix archives from about 4-5 years ago and most unreadable.
maybe because I used cheapest disks available?
by hal 9000
The CSIRO is asking for copies of pressed Cd's that have been attacked by mold. Apparently the pressed Cd's are being adversely affected and are being destroyed in a much shorter length of time.
According to the Scientists here the humidity is causing the problems and a lot of the problems are coming about because of poor pressing of th currently Cd's and no doubt at some time in the future DVDs.
Col
by jamesrl
The WORM drives I speak of are not CDs. They are optical, but they aren't pressed in any way. They are in a protective casing as well. These were out before CDs became popular, but cost wise were very pricey, intended for archiving.
http://www.ezsystems.com/opticaldrives.htm
Corel used to write the drivers for some of the brands.
James
by mmogano
by hal 9000
That you can not copy from Disc to disc as Windows will not allow you top copy used files and even if you do manage to perform a copy it will not be boot able.
If you want to copy from Disc to Disc you'll need to use a piece of software to [b]Clone[/b] the drive across. Here of course I'm only talking about Windows from 95 on wards as with Windows 3X you can perform a direct disc to disc copy and have both HDD boot able but this is effectively only a DOS platform.
Backup is slightly different to a straight Disc to Disc copy as it uses its own program to allow you to copy but it isn't all that fast and if you are performing a disc to disc backup it is faster to just Clone the drive.
Col ]:)
by mlogsdon
I work at a State Capital.
We need backups, sometimes of the complete
Hard Drive. It has the OS included. If I need
to put a Senator or the Secretary's data back, it
would do no good just to have the data without
the programs. Then I would have to install again
on another PC. And hopefully get it running again.
I use Acronis True Image ***
I was using the Ghost, but found it would not
work with the new double partition on Dells.
Acronis - Works Great !
Plus I can take an image of a hard drive and put
into a data/file format. Then I can put about 10 hard drive backups onto 1 larger hard drive.
When I restore an image I get the drive ready to
put back into the PC, and its up and running with
all of its programs, ready to run with data.
Done...
by cool it guy
at my job we use acronis and it seems to be working fine. but if im not mistaken, it images EVERYTHING; good, bad and the ugly.
also i heard the same thing about dell and acronis having problems with recovery. look into that and let us know what you find
from what i've seen from ym coworker, who won the coin toss to be in charge of images, its been great but i did see him struggle a bit with one image in particular. he ended up using someone else'e image :)
by ozi eagle
by jardinier
Thanks for introducing this topic, Col.
For maybe six months or more I drooled (lusted, craved) over what was at the time the top-of-the line digital camera -- Olympus with 10 X optical zoom. But the price was $AU 1,000.
So I waited and I waited and eventually the price came down -- to about $700. I was VERY pleased with my purchase.
However before I had taken it out of the box I overheard a man talking to his friends at the table adjacent to me in a restaurant, and I heard for the first time of the deadly 3 year limit.
So I questioned the man who was doing some repairs on my film cameras and he of course vindicated this alarming piece of information.
You will see in another post that I accused the manufacturers and distributors of digital cameras of working a great con on the general public.
Do you think any salesperson would have notified the purchaser of the impermanence of the images? I very much doubt it and from my experience I would guess most salespersons would be unaware of it themselves.
by oknightowl
by hal 9000
They will only claim that Photo Data stored on Burnt CD/DVDs will be good for about 3 years without the loss of clarity. Now if you store the CD/DVDs in the proper environment a Temp controlled room with low humidity and no direct sunlight they will last longer. But for the general run of the mill person who just burns to a CD/DVD and throws them in what they think of as a "Safe Spot" the data can degrade within a very short time.
With my [b]Work Copies[/b] of programs that I carry around with me I find that the Burnt CD/DVDs have a life expediency of about 6 months before that start to become unreadable and on one batch of CD media I found the backing material lifting off the media even before I began using it and these where not the c heap rubbish that are brought at the cheapest retail stores but TDK Media. Obviously a [b]Bad Batch[/b] with that lot.
However what it does mean is that you need to be careful with any burnt CD/DVDs that you may make and if you have important data on them that is not easily replaceable burn them often and a lot don't wait for the media to go off and then moan about your woes and your lost data.
Direct sunlight exposure has a devastating effect on any burnt CD/DVD media and they will start to discolor around the outer edge but long before this happens the media will have become unreadable so unless you are regularly reading the media you'll not know until it's too late and you've lost your data. However in a Business situation where the media is kept in an Air conditioned room in the basement they will naturally last longer but even they have a limited life expediency of around 10 years as that is all that is recommended that they be used for without performing other backups with.
If you have copied Beta and VHS tape to DVD it would be a good idea to copy them every few years so you do not loose your existing movies as even the tape has problems with [b]Print Through[/b] and other things that do degrade the Tape Media not to mention Magnetic Fields that play havoc with any magnetic storage media.
Col ]:)
by jardinier
Col, do you know what the lifespan of these is?
Anyhow thanks again for introducing the subject of CD/DVD storage.
What would you say is the life expectancy of a video tape (Betamax or VHS)? I would think 20 years at least if stored correctly.
Yes I know the rule:
Store them high where it's nice and dry
And they'll keep as good as new
Store them low where there's no airflow
And they're sure to grow some mildew
Well I thought I had better check my collection of Betamax videos and alas, quite a few I had to chuck.
Unfortunately they have to be stored where there is room and this usually means low and near the floor.
by jardinier
Forty years and more ago I used to take a lot of my pics on Kodachrome -- especially scenery from trips etc. I was told at the time that the film had a life expectancy of 50 years, but permanent storage could be achieved by separating the primary colours (there were three I think) and making a B & W copy of each of these.
The quality of colour print film at the time was very poor and it was anybody's guess what colours might appear on the prints.
Recently because certain people -- mainly from the USA -- were fascinated by Australia, I took out these slides taken 40 years previously and had some copied onto CD. There was absolutely NO degradation in the original colour slides.
by netjustin
by jardinier
at the particular time, the Olympus was the most expensive model.
I realise that digital cameras with higher specs have become available since that time.
by rkuhn040172
Here in Indianapolis, Fry's Electronics will sell you a GQ (mega generic) PC for $159.
If you already have a keyboard and mouse, just buy a removable drive bay (what $20-$30) and now it is offsite. Take it to work with you every morning.
Problem solved. BTW, NAS Lite is not bad.
by ozi eagle
If I understand you correctly, you are saying to acquire a second, old ( cheap ) PC, fitted with a removable drive ( USB or hot swap ) and set this up as a backup system.
Why?
If you have a removable drive, just use it in your main PC, as you suggest to use it in the second PC. Saves all that space otherwise taken up by the second PC.
by rkuhn040172
Well, you do have a point, however, with a second PC you can share files with others more easily and have that second PC for uses other than just storage.
I use mine for remote access, website serving, etc.
by ozi eagle
Hi,
I know Geelong Grammar well , one of my clients.
As I stated a few days ago AGFA has gone belly up, now Konica Minokta is shutting down their camera and film manufacturing. See the story at
by hal 9000
About 20 years ago I pulled out some Reel to Reel Audio Tape and it was actually breaking up and this was the cheap no name stuff but that Ampex Brand which was at the time supposed to be the best. :(
It actually cost me a Reel to Reel Tape player as the capstan motor burnt out and when it was replaced it didn't work so I returned it to the QLD suppliers who promptly fixed the thing and it worked for 20 minuter on a 3,600 foot tape so it didn't get too fat into the tape and died again. Apparently the electronics driving the capstan motor where burning out so I sent it to the AU suppliers who claimed that they could fix anything well 6 months latter it arrived back here with no bill 3 capstan motors all in new boxes and still not working with an apology for not being able to repair the professional piece of equipment. Well I never really needed a 16 Track Player anyway. :(
But for Audio Tape the rules are run them through at least once a year to prevent [b]print through[/b] that is where the magnetic storage prints through the actual tape and messes up the rest of the layers that are wound around it. Always check for the tape becoming messy and if it does never put it into a player [b]I learned that one the hard way and am still paying for it.[/b]:(
If the tape has melted together throw it out. Incidentally that particular reel of Ampex was only 5 years old and had been run through the tape player less than 12 months previously so when it does go off it goes quickly.
I've never actually seen any mold on any VHS tape but then again I haven't been using it all that long so given enough time that may change. I've only really been collecting VHS for about 8 years and treat them the same as Audio Tape always stand them on their side in a well venerated cabinet in an Air Conditioned room and away from magnetic fields so far so good [b]Touch Wood[/b] and also hose hold wiring as they have a low intensity EM Field surrounding them. I never got involved in the Beta Max VS VHS argument of the time as I still believe that the Open Reel Video is far Superior to any form of Cassette but then again I was working with the high end professional stuff of the day and everything else looks like rubbish in comparison so I never really say any great difference between Beta and VHS except for the fact that all the Professional Tape Cameras in the field where Beta Max at the time but I though that Sony Licensing was way over the top and would cause the alternative format to win.
But to be on the safe side I've transfered all my important VHS off to DVD as even with the best brands of Cassette the tape isn't that good a quality and it's very thin in comparison to the professional tape that used to be used so it is more susceptible to print through and breakage.
Col ]:)
by hal 9000
You can never have to much [b]BACKUP[/b] ever!
Col ]:)
by hal 9000
Your dirty mitts on a H2 Blad. I was loaned one and got into all sorts of trouble as She Who Must be Obeyed thought that I had gone out and bought one but I had it for 2 weeks all 22 MEG Pixel of it and loved it to death. What made it even better is that all my Blad lenses fitted the body so I could switch from a Fish Eye to a 1200 mm Telephoto and everything in between but I'll guess that I'll stick with my 500 ELM's for the time being and allow She Who Must Be Obeyed to buy me a H2. :D
Col ]:)
by jardinier
Hi Col
You wouldn't have found mould on your tapes in an 8 year period, but many of mine are much older than that. In the case of Betamax they would of necessity be probably as much as 20 years old because Betamax was already in its death throes by then.
I cannot determine any difference in reproductive quality between my old Betamax tapes and quite new VHS tapes.
However all my tapes are second-hand (mostly ex-rental) but in the case of the Betamax I purchased about two years ago at a garage sale a high quality Sony Betamax player and about 100 tapes for a total price of $20.
Quite a lot of the tapes were already mouldy by then and I chucked quite a few out. As for the ones which I checked yesterday, I had not previously taken most of these out of their cardboard cases so I cannot say whether they were already mouldy or not.
I learnt to my disadvantage that VHS tapes can also become mouldy. I placed a tape in my machine without inspecting it and when I saw all the fuzz on the screen I removed it and found there was a large amount of mould.
In my attempts to clean the tape I stuffed the VHS player and had to buy a new one.
Now I ALWAYS check for mould before inserting a tape and if there is any at all I ditch the tape immediately.
by jardinier
Well I guess it won't bother me for a while.
My main camera is a Minolta 101 which I have recently had completely overhauled. I have a Rokkor 50 mm Macro lens that goes down to 1:1 with an attachment fitted between the camera and lens. The Macro focuses down to 2:1 on its own.
I also have a Rokkor 1:1.7 50 mm, a 28 mm and a couple of macro zoom lenses.
Primarily I am using the Macro to take photos of flowers for my gardening website:
by hal 9000
To take photos. You should be using a fixed focal length Lens with Diopters in place generally a conventional or what passes as a [b]Standard[/b] lens that originally came with the camera body. By using a Macro Zoom you loose [b]Depth Of Field[/b] and with pictures of flowers this can be really important particularly with the bigger ones. Even a Scarracenia Flower which is far from big has a noticeable lack of a depth of field when using a Macro Zoom to take a photo of the flower while you can pick up one petal perfectly everything else is out of focus.
Diopters or a bellows with a movable Focal Length give a much better result particularly when used close up and do not suffer from a lack of depth of field like a Macro Zoom does.
See I did learn something from my dearly departed brother before he died even if I do find it hard to carry his cameras. :p
Col ]:)
by mmogano
by drbali1
As far as I know, Windows XP will not boot from an external drive (Micro$oft designed it that way.)
Hard drives are still very cheap these days. If it were me, I'd buy a new internal HDD and clone the old one to it using the free version of XXClone. That program will clone everything from your old drive to the new one (including your XP installation) AND make it self-bootable.
You can do just about the whole lot while you're still using Windows! (No need for boring re-boots, etc.) And no need to change jumper settings or physically change drives around.
An added bonus is that it defragments your source drive on-the-fly (again, no need for re-boots). It can also mix and match different file systems, such as FAT, FAT32, NTFS.
I've used it and in my case, it worked superbly. It's a small download (1.2MB) from www.xxclone.com
Runs rings around the often bloated, expensive and flaky alternatives out there.
Enjoy. (Did I mention that you don't have to be a rocket scientist to use it?)
This discussion is closed to new replies.
Trending Storage posts
Sort by Trending