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"Day without Immigrants"

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by mickster269 2 views

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208 replies

by jdclyde

Whites are suppose to be too guilt ridden for past agressions done by some other whites centuries ago that have nothing to do with us today, to ever think we deserve equal rights.

Don't you know how evil you are if you're white? Go sinner. Repent and sin no more...... ;\

Oh yeah, keep paying those taxes. Millions of illegals are depending on you.

by peter warren

I think your solution will fail when you attempt to implement it.

The US government can't keep drugs out of maximum security prisons. You expect it to keep immigrants out of America? Walls and fences can always be broken through.

The big businesses that thrive on cheap undocumented labor have been able to pay off the feds in the past. Why do think now will be any different? As for the multitude of individuals who employ undocumented workers in household, construction and maintenance jobs, what are you suggesting -- arrest? fine? jail time?

Police already have more than they can deal with. If you add the capture, detention and deportation of undocumented immigrants, what will be ignored? Or should we raise taxes to hire and train more police, build more temporary prisons, maintain a fleet of vehicles to transport these people to the nearest border? What about undocumented immigrants from China and other non-border countries? We can't just dump them in Mexico or Canada.

Human rights were not invented by the Bill of Rights, and they don't apply only to US citizens.

I think the only possible positive outcome to all this attention to unregulated immigration is that the nation comes to grips with the reality of world-wide migration from poor to rich countries.

I do support strong federal presence along our borders. The failure of the feds to secure the border is yet another reason I don't believe the Republican party has our interests at heart. The inflow of population must be regulated. I don't believe we should allow companies the opportunity to undercut fair wages by employing powerless migrants.

by jdclyde

to even TRY to claim this is a Republican issue. The Demoncrats are just as gleeful to have the illegals here because they have more poor to buy votes from.

this is not a republican vs democrat issue here and is very revealing again of your blind bias. grow up.

by mickster269

How can they 'buy votes' from people who are not registered to vote?

To register (at least here in the backwaters fo Kentucky) you have to show a valid Driver's License or some other form of state issued ID. I rather doubt an undocumented / illegal alien is going to risk exposing themselves to vote in an election...

by peter warren

...the last time I checked, the Republican party controlled the White House and both houses of Congress. My point is that the party of "homeland security" has failed miserably in something as fundamental as securing our borders. Why is that JD?

by peter warren

Yes, it?s a hot potato alright. The relatively clear issue of border security has been tied to the complex issue of immigration. I think these are two separate items and should be addressed as such. Of course we need border security. Do we need immigration? I think we could do with or without it, as long as the Federal government has the people, the smarts and the resources to manage the process.
I?d find a wall ugly, visually reminiscent of the Berlin Wall and conceptually reminiscent of the Iron Curtain. Granted these ?walls? were designed to keep people in, but I don?t see America working as one big ?gated community.? And I don?t think a wall would work. It didn?t in China. But I support using federally funded National Guard troops in sufficient numbers to patrol the borders. It is unfair for the Federal government to shirk its responsibility for the borders and let the affected states struggle with the bill. But that?s one thing you get if you ?starve? the government.
I feel the ease with which enemy terrorists can penetrate our borders is a security threat that the current administration is doing nothing about. I?d sooner see money spent shoring up our borders, ports, coastlines and air space than wasted on futile attempts at world domination overseas.

by babs_1957

I'm not boasting or anything, but my husband had this brilliant idea. Then I will tell you why it won't work. His suggestion is that we call all US citizens to appear before their local voting precint with three forms of identification to prove their citizenship. Then all those that have that proof verified will be injected with a microchip. That microchip will give citizens the right to buy. Anyone without the chip will loose right to any commerce and that will signal an immediate call for the INS. If that person can prove that they are citizens then they can go free only after they are injected with the microchip. If they are not, they need to produce proof that they are here legally by way of a student visa or temporary visa. Those people who meet this criteria will be injected with another type of microchip. If they cannot prove that they are here legally then they will be sent back to their country of origin. Tourists can be given a temporary stamp on their skin that can be scanned; that would give them rights to buy while they are here on vacation.

If you think this would be costly, you would be right. However, how serious do you think we all are, who rant and rave about the problem of illegal immigration, really serious about solving the problem? Or is it just bigotry in disguise. Bigotry doesn't want answers; bigotry just wants to feed its hatred. What my husband proposed is a doable thing. We certainly have the technology to do so now. However, I think it would not fly because most US citizens would consider this an invasion of privacy and a violation of their freedom. I can hear the protests even now; "you can't do that!...that is a violation of my rights...it's a plot of big brother to keep tabs on me." Well, do you want solutions or do you just want to rant and complain? This draconic approach would never work in this society because we want our cake and we want to eat it too. We think freedom is free and we are not willing to pay any price or inconvenience ourselves. That is why I think this idea would not fly.

If you don't think so, then answer this. Why don't we enforce the laws we have now? Why do we want to invent yet another way to solve the problem. There is an old adage that says, "faithful in little, faithful in much." How do you figure that we would do any better at implementing a new law if we can't even meet the basic laws we have now? No excuses!

by jdclyde

If you work hard for your cake, you SHOULD get to eat it.

(always have hated that saying! ;\ )

Excuse me, cake time! B-)

by tig2

For much of the same reason that RFID tags aren't a fully embraced technology. My Bible proposes the same solution- read Revelations. Now because of my faith, I would not, under ANY circumstances, allow myself or my family members to be microchipped. I am part Native American- about a quarter. I was born and raised in the US. I have a US passport that proves these facts. I don't think that I need to do something that is a clear violation of my religious beliefs just because there are illegals in this country. I think what I am hearing a lot of people in this discussion say is that we DO need to enforce existing laws. It isn't necessary to re-invent a solution, we have several. It becomes critical that the voices you have heard in this discussion continue to speak out on the subject and push the "lawmakers" to action. I don't know if that can be done, but I, for one, am willing to try.

I am NOT willing to be microchipped. Not now, not EVER. And if it became a requirement to buy and sell etc, you will see large numbers of us, completely disenfranchised by our own country. Because there are higher powers to answer to and that is a line to never cross.

by peter warren

--We think freedom is free and we are not willing to pay any price or inconvenience ourselves. --

Your husband's price is to surrender the very freedom you want to preserve. Sorry to say, but this is a non-solution.

by peter warren

And after they pass some tough sounding law, pay attention a year or two later when businesses buy a repeal of the "teeth" of the law.

by mjwx

When the SA finished their task Hitler disbanded the organisation and placed the SS in charge.

I disagree with the concept and the analogy, rounding up people wholesale will only incite to riot in a nation where I can buy a 5.56 assault rife with my socks (probably even as an Australian citizen, will K-Mart accept an Aussie 18+ card as identification (Do I even need ID?)).

by peter warren

... only after they had served their purpose by bullying, persecuting and rounding up target groups. Hitler also had many of the SA leaders killed to assure the ascendancy of the SS. Instead of attempting viable solutions, the current crop of neo-cons is using this issue in the same way Hitler used the SA and the same way Nazis used the ?international Jewish conspiracy.?

by jdclyde

No "assault rifles" at KMART.

To purchase ANY rifle, there is first a background check that can take from two hours up to seven business days depending on your record and if there are any flags on it or not.

To purchase a handgun you have to go to the local cop shop, apply for a "purchase purmit". They run a background check right there on the spot. IF you pass, you get the permit that has to be returned within 14 days regardless of if you ended up getting the handgun or not.

I know the press likes to portray the US as the wild west where everyone is carrying a gun all the time and you buy them with your change at the corner store, but that is not the reality.

No more the reality than all Ausies drink Fosters beer, just like the commercials here show us? B-)

by peter warren

Just think. Starvation right here in America. And we thought it'd be difficult to 'conquer" obesity.

by peter warren

--The point is that the US government has the right and responsibility to control immigration. The government has the responsibility to set policy and determine the number of immigrants that we choose to let into the country based upon the needs of the US and the qualifications of the individual immigrants. --

Right, so why haven't they done it? Could it be that the US government is a wholly-owned sudsidary of corporate America?

--We cannot, however, just continue to allow laws to be ignored. --

This government, and most that have preceded it, are experts at ignoring inconvenient laws. The only solution is to pressure them, vote them out keep paying attention, and pressure them some more until you get some of what you want. whatever laws

by peter warren

You obviously have never visited major US metropolitan areas like New York, Philadelphia, LA, San Francisco, Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, Dallas, and I'm a thousand other places where cultural diversity will knock you off your feet. I like Canada, but come off it.

by jamesrl

You can't compare a city to a country. I am sure Oz has been to many of those places, as have I.

Toronto and Vancouver are more diverse than any of those places. Montreal is relatively diverse. But rural Canada and rural US are pretty similar, as is small town US and Canada.

One of the differences is that we have a fairly even distribution of "non english as first language" immigrants, whereas the areas with challenges in the southern areas of the US have a predominance of one fast growing minority, Hispanics, along with other more stable groups.

Canada probably feels more diverse because we have a higher percentage of our population who live in larger cities, and we have a higher level of immigration (per capita) over the last few decades. The challenge we face is that fact that these new immigrants tend to congregate in the largest cities who struggle with the extra costs, and in turn the concentration also causes housing shortages etc.

James

by oz_media

I have toured all over the US (and the rest of teh world)with bands and talent scouting.

I had an office not to far from San Fran, I have also spent enough time in Southern California, New York and Miami.

To say that ANY of those places is as culturally diverse as Canada's major cities is a complete joke.

Yes, there is China town and Jewish neighbourhoods, and Greek neighbourhoods etc.

But they don't have the amount of non English speaking, fresh off the boat immigrants that we see daily in Canada.

In Vancouver, a caucasian person on a bus will othen be the ONLY caucasian person on the bus. In Richmond (vancouver suburb where the airport and most distribution centers are, caucasians in a shopping mall are 1:20 Asians, at VERY best, I would more realistically guess it at 1:40 or 50.

In South Vancouver, a caucasion person walking down the road is 1:10 or 15 with East Indian, Sikh, Punjabi, Chinese, Phillipino etc.

These are realistic numbers, caucasians are a [b]VAST[/b] minority here. And yet when I go to the US, you actually NOTICE non Americans as they stand out against a mainly caucasian backdrop.

I am glad you like Canada, but I won't 'come off it' because I am dead serious, and I have seen enough of the US to conclude as much.

by mjwx

American English :|

Great way to massacre a great language and you want more people to learn it. Give me the Queens English.

Damn it, where's a pom when you need one.
:)

by mjwx

What?s your view on if that school were to fly a confederate flag (feel free to choose which ever orientation you like).

by oneamazingwriter

No flag above that of the United States, and NEVER the US flag upside down. Whatever other flag people want to display is up to them.

edit: flad? flag!

by mjwx

If Mexico was a nice place to live [b]they[/b] would be complaining about all you damned illegal [b]American[/b] Immigrants. :)

Because we have no land borders, Australia's main immigration problem is with people smuggling which is a despicable trade (traffic drugs or guns like normal criminals).

by jdclyde

There are communities set up of American citizens who move down there to retire because the value of the dollar is so much greater, they can retire earlier.

It is sounding better and better all the time. ;\

Just think. Affordable Tequilla!

by mjwx

It's easier to control immigration into out two nation because Australia has no land borders and Canada only has a land border with the US (you may want to close that one :) ).

We (in AU) still have a small illegal immigration problem but very few store owners don?t speak English (at least to the customers). Without immigrants who would drive the taxi's.

by mjwx

abandoned post.

nothing shady going on,

nothing suss at all,

nothing more to see here.

by jdclyde

if no one wants to go up into the "great white north"! ;\

Oz will rant and rave all day long otherwise, but more people move from Canada to the US than the other way around.

B-)

by jdclyde

"nothing to see here people, move along" - Officer Barbrady

"Keep your eyes peeled, boys. Someone's going to make love to this chicken any second now." - Officer Barbrady

"This is nothing out of the unusual. Cows turn themselves inside-out all the time." - Officer Barbrady

"Hey, I just thought of something. No, wait, that's subtraction." - Officer Barbrady

B-)

by jamesrl

I've also seen the exposes of how people have bought their dream property only to be shafted by developers....there is no free lunch.

James

by jamesrl

I've also seen the exposes of how people have bought their dream property only to be shafted by developers....there is no free lunch.

James

by peter warren

Toronto and Vancouver more diverse than New York City? I find this difficult to believe, but OK, it?s not really important. I agree rural areas in both countries are similar. Do you agree that learning to accommodate diversity is one of the biggest challenges both countries face?

by jamesrl

..ask National Geographic. Have you ever been?

They are the ones that said according to the stats, Toronto is most diverse city on the planet.

I don't know that we struggle that much to accomadate diversity. It just happens. The odd time we have a clash - when Sikh boys wear kirpins and school boards have a zero tolerence policy on weapons, but we usually work it out. Similarly the Canadian Legion (military vets organization) had a policy of no wearing hats inside their meeting halls, and this preculded Sikhs and turbans. It was negotiated out, though a few branches chose to ignore the ruling of the main association.

I think the point it since we have so many different groups we have to act in a way where we don't favour one over another. We couldn't possibly have affirmative action for Black Canadians cause then all the other ethnic groups would complain.

When the issue of religious arbitration of family matters came up, it was studied as to whether we should allow Muslims to have Imams arbitrate family matters according to Sharia law. In order to kill that, we had to also dissallow the practise of allowing Jewish Rabbis to do the same thing. And frankly I am ok with that.

James

by peter warren

I'll accept National Geographic. As for accommodating diversity, I think we have a harder time here in the US.

by peter warren

I agree. The US is struggling with the mosaic concept. We are hung up on the idealized concept of "being American." It's too bad we are too proud to learn from the Canadian experience.

by jdclyde

is that you and people like you think that WE need to change our way of life. Someone doesn't like the way they are living NOW in another country, so they come here and want to live that same way they did in the place they left! They left that other country for a reason to come here. Lets not make this country as bad of a place to live at the countries the LEGAL AND ILLEGAL immigrants are leaving in droves.

by aldanatech

On Monday business began kind of slow to only about 60% of the normal daily business. People on the Mexican side of the border decided not to come the U.S., so border crossing was down to about 10%. Then many businesses had to close early because of a short amount of customers. There were several marching protests here and there but no violence or arrests. The preliminary estimate of economic loss around here was about $11 million, but I think the overall impact nation was around $17 billion. Its okay, we can make up for this loss in the upcoming days.

by jdclyde

Based on what? It would be interesting to see the week long numbers and compare it to next weeks and last weeks.

Did ANYONE, ANYWHERE, actually lose money because of the walk out? Billions? unlikely.

Most of the products people did not buy on Monday, they will just buy on Tuesday. This is why the famous "don't buy gas on monday" crap emails are so stupid and no one in their right mind pays any attention to them.

I don't believe for a second any businesses ANYWHERE closed based on not having customers.

There were businesses closed based on support for the movement, and there were the businesses closed based on threats of violence if they did not close their doors for the day.

by cactus pete

...likely drove, spending money on gas (perhaps not that day, but you have to refuel sometime), bought a train ticket, hailed a cab... something. I know my train was packed.

Seems some economics indicators will say it helped, some will say it hurt. But really, so what if you just delay buying groceries for a day?

by tig2

It has long been said that there are lies, d@mned lies, and statistics. And statistics can be spun to give you the answer you seek. Bottom line- it is way too early to have a good feel for what EXACTLY the impact of the day was. And there is a variety of other factors that have to be considered in order to reach REAL numbers- e.g. consumer spending in general as it has been impacted by gas prices. Right now there is a known impact but it has not been fully quantified as yet.

Bottom line- I would need to see the foundation of any numbers published around all this- I have a hard time believing that there was ANY real economic impact- an answer that illegals won't like.

by aldanatech

Personally I didn't pay much attention to the protest. To me it was just another day like any other and I treated it as such; but I did take my time every now and then to see how everything was turning out since Friday of last week. From what I understand, both legal and illegal immigrants prepared for this well in advance. They were determined not to buy anything of May 1st, so they did all their shopping a few days prior. If possible, they would skip work and school that day to join the protest, if not they would join later in the afternoon. From what I noticed around here, they really did just that.

As for the loss, those were the rough estimates that were reported on Tuesday from on all that labor and business that added up across the country, but we are yet to get a more accurate figure. In the case of El Paso, it does rely heavily on the business we get from all the people that cross the border every day to their shopping. It is also a city with a high concentration of immigrants, especially hispanic. Like I say, business was slow that day they and many of them ended up closing early, but they didn't feel a treat of violence or anything like that. Everything went back to normal on Tuesday, and we probably already made up for the loss by now.

by jdclyde

it has become a political hot potato that no one is willing to actually do anything about.

As soon as ANYONE talks about closing down the border, extremely dishonest people start raving that they are racists and hate mongers. Who wants that?

Would YOU support the current administration if they DID build a 30 foot wall along the entire border, and patrol it with the national guard?

There are even lunatics out there that see using our military to guard our country is somehow wrong? That is what the national guard and coast guard are FOR!

But that is ok, keep claiming that this on-going issue is a republican issue. It just shows the credibility of anything you say by giving a full pass on all past administrations for doing the exact same thing.

Do YOU, EPW, feel we have a real security threat from the Mexican or Canadian borders?

Do YOU, EPW, feel we should lock down both borders, and patrol them with the military?

Or do YOU, EPW, just see this as one more thing that no one will do anything about, that you can try to make one political party look bad over?

by cactus pete

That he meant the business owners will buy votes from congress to pass toothless laws or laws with huge loopholes, etc.

by jdclyde

First, relatives will be inclined to support anyone that gives a free pass to their illegal family members.

Second, many illegals get and use fake ID's that allow them to get regular jobs, not just the cash jobs you hear about all the time.

Third, right now the courts in Michigan are hearing an arguement brought by some that it is against the constitution to demand a voter provide a picture ID in order to be able to vote.

Democrats do NOT want to close the polls to fellons, dead people, or anyone else that would vote for them. Election fraud is how they get elected, dispite all of their talk about Republicans trying to "steal and election".

The bad thing is, the mindless masses will believe the loudest person, especially if it is against the "evil rich" that they have already been condidtioned to hate. Class envy is a very powerful tool also used by the Democrats.

There are [b]some [/b]good people that just happen to be Democrats. [i](good, but wrong)[/i]

There are [b]many[/b] that are corrupt and manipulative and use the power of a "Gift society". [i](I give you gifts, you give me power)[/i]

There are [b]many[/b] just to stupid and/or lazy to be anything other than a Democrat because people have told them they should be.

Keep in mind, it is Democrats that round up homeless, give them a pack of smokes and a bottle in exchange for them voting on line "X". [i](remember the big stink in the Florida elections with the butterfly ballots that had been designed BY A DEMOCRAT)[/i]

That is the reason DEMOCRATS don't want to do away with "straight party voting" of a one check and out the door.

Risk to illegals? In the majority of the cases that they DO get picked up, nothing happens.
[b]
INS does not patrol the polling places, or again the corrupt and dishonest Democrats would cry voter intimidation.

by cactus pete

How many of them WANT to work - for the wage levels at which you could exploit an illegal person?

by tonythetiger

exploitation. They know what they're coming here for... and they're getting it. Unless you mean wage levels above what they can get for doing nothing!

by too old for it

But the porous border has been a problem for years. It and the results thereof need to be fixed, and now.

What we don't need is a "viable solution" that says "you broke our immigration laws, but that's all right, that's OK" as a starting point.

The whole "guest worker" concept (no matter what the country) does no more than enable cheap bastards unwilling to pay the prevailing wage. If the job isn't worth paying the prevailing wage for, could it be that (a) the owner cannot actually run a company or (b) the job just isn't worth doing?

Conversely, if they can't make it paying American wages, why don't they move to Mexico, and set up shop down there? Plenty of available workers, and NO pesky labor laws to worry about!

by jamesrl

In some cases people pay to be smuggled in. In others, employers from restaurants/brothels/sweat shops hire smugglers to "recruit" people in poor countries. They are not told the truth about what jobs they are going to do and many of them are kept in indentured servitude.

I heard an interview with a camel jockey (no joke) who had been sold by his desparately poor family in Pakistan when he was just 6 to a man from Dubai. They kept him malnurished so he would be small. No school, minimal food, just training and work. He was never paid.

Eventually UAE outlawed jockeys under 18 and he was freed. Unfortunately he couldn't find his family back in Pakistan.

James

by jdclyde

should actually have gone UP because of the extended travel to get to the rallies!

Illegal immigrants support big oil? :0 :D

by cactus pete

Those who drove, I think must have carpooled a lot. Everyone seems to have said that traffic was much less that day!

by tryten

I came to the US LEGALLY, and it wasnt all that hard either. I became a US citizan and pay taxes and do what I must. But it just angers me to see all these people pouring into the US and have no desire what so ever to even try to become citizens or even get a temporary work visa. One of our other techs is from India, came from a poor family and is working here on a work visa which he renews when he must. All his money goes to supporting his family back home. And I just dont understand why you would come to the US illegally and work for wages that are way below what they would pay a LEGAL citizen. Maybe they are just too stupid to figure that part out. You can work as a roofer in Texas City for $12 an hour as an illegal OR you can get a work visa or become a citizen and take the average rate of $20 an hour. Even after taxes you still make more money as a legal citizen. Doesnt make sense, but then again look at the individuals that ARE coming to the US illegally. Most dont speak english and barely have an elementary level education. I speak english rather well...in fact, its been so long since I have spoken German that I can hardly remember any of it.

by mickster269

It's not immigrants that irk the citizens of the USA. It's the ILLEGAL ones that gripes our asses.

My roomies mother also emmigrated from Germany, went though all the steps for citizenship. She has been a productive worker for 35+ years now. She finds this whole arguement presented by and for illegal immigrants to be outrageous at best, insulting at worst.

by oz_media

What could be worse than just landing in America and helping yourself to its resources? That's plain wrong and downright rude, and that's also how America was acquired by your forefathers.

by tonythetiger

"I know the press likes to portray the US as the wild west where everyone is carrying a gun all the time"

...there's be fewer of some crimes if we were.

by vanessaj

The police went around on Saturday (Long Island, NY) checking papers of all the workers in the nearby mall. A girlfriend of mine that also worked there was telling me Saturday afternoon. She said that if folks did not have proper papers they were taken down to the police station. But the only effect it had on the businesses was that the Taco Bell in the food court had to completely shut down. No joke.

by jdclyde

I didn't think they got involved in immigration issues?

Any word if there will be any follow through, or was it just for show?

Any word in the local news?

by vanessaj

was the one who came back from the mall all excited with the news. She said she saw a few folks that were picked up and then the word spread through the mall and employers started sending people home like crazy. It seemed like there were a couple sent home where she worked, and like I said, the Taco Bell closed completely (go figure), and then she, and many others, went down to see the few that got caught hauled away. I didn't get any more details, sorry. And I haven't been in front of a TV in a week. Just what my friend told me that she saw.

by vanessaj

big fan of yours...but Ive GOT to ask...what IS the red stuff on the front of your shirt in your profile picture. Really, I'm worried.

by too old for it

I second that, well after all the research data that proves it to be so.

However, I do have a avi file of a Aussie girl at a bar opening a long-neck with her navel, and shooting the cap across the bar. Does that ever happen?

by jdclyde

and it HAS to be true or it wouldn't be in the internet! :D

There are in the process of passing a new law in Michigan that says you no longer have to try to run away when you are in the safety of your own home and someone breaks in. You have an expectation of being secure in your own home, and have NO fear of a lawsuit provided you are not in the middle of something illegal, such as drug trafficing or something.

I will be applying for my concealed carry permit soon. Been intending to, but just never got around to it. Now is a very good time.

by mjwx

I still like gun control though, keeps high powered weapons out of the hands of the truly dangerous and leaves us normal people alone.

It's not hard to get a gun in Australia, just a few basic rules 1. You don?t have a criminal record (basic common sense) 2. You have somewhere to use a gun (know someone who owns a small farm or join a gun club) 3. You already have too many guns (why do you need 20 shotguns)

TOFIT, that video you have is likely to be an ad for bundy (Bundaberg rum) but I've seen people do it usually bogans.

by mjwx

The idea of people smuggling (into Australia) is to get them past customs.

In addition to what James said, People (mostly from the poorer Asian nations) pay extortionate prices (AU$2000 - 3000 which is a large fortune to the poor) to get on a leaky boat and hope that they can run past Australian customs and border patrols. Often they are dumped in places that are easier to get into (Indonesia and islands near there). Human trafficking is often like a watered down version of slave trading, truly and thoroughly despicable.

by peter warren

A "neo-con" is more inclined than traditional conservatives toward vigorous government in the service of the goals of traditional morality and pro-business policies. Neo-cons also tend to favor a foreign policy that positions and engages America as the de facto leader of the world.

While the problems of non-secure borders and uncontrollable migration are fodder for neo-con rhetoric, they merely use these issues to advance their pro-business, pro-fundamentalist and pro-interventionist policies. They are using those who care about the issues of security and immigration the way Hitler used and eventually discarded the SA. And they are using the concept of an immigrant threat to traditional American culture the same way the concept of an international conspiracy was used against the Jews in Europe.

by tig2

Didn't know if you were threading to me- Microchipping, I think NOT or Babs.

Sometimes the depth for a subthread is just not where you hope it wil be...
:)

Editing!!!

So my computer is completely retarded and I am mostly senile. Not a stellar pair as I now see that epw's comment threaded properly.

This is a conspriacy... yeah... Make the nice kitty look like a complete nutter...

(Edited again because of PEBKAC error)

by rkuhn040172

No affects here.

Oh wait. I was able to go to the gas station and not have to fight my way around all the landscapers trucks to find a parking spot.

I even went to McDonalds for lunch just to see what was happening...they are all illegal working there. Got my Happy Meal just as fast.

Solution: round em up, ship em back.

We are a nation of laws, obey them or suffer the consequences.

by rkuhn040172

Now that would be more interesting!

I can only start to imagine...spam, spam, everywhere spam spam.

You got a virus, me too.

Server down, try kicking it. Or maybe it is thirsty and needs some water...it is running a bit hot.

Can't remember your password? Take the rest of the day off.

Accidentally delete that file? Time to start over.

Blackberry not working? Time to go back to the rotary phone.

Who needs a T-1, AOL dialup rocks!

BIOS problems? I didn't even know someone wrote a book about me.

Check your RAM and hard drive, well now, that sounds a bit Freudian.

Got to debug a program? Where's the can of Raid?

Paper jam? Who needs paper, I'll email it...wait, how do you attach something again? It's only 15MB uncompressed.

Macros, who needs macros, I have bi-focals.

Tape backup? Yes, I have all my MP3's backed up to tape, cassette tape.

Phishing, no thank you, I prefer hunting.

No Playboy.com? No one going blind today.

No IM. Productivity soars to 20 year high.

by jamesrl

Thats how Political science classes teach it in Canada. The US expects everyone to blend in, where in Canada we tend to let people retain some vestige of their heritage and add the good parts to our society.

Part of this comes from the roots. The early colonists in the US, many of them puritans, were anything but pluralistic - they abhored the english society they left for being too liberal and pluralistic. In Canada, on the other hand, the British defeated the French (with the help of my Americans who fought for the British and later against them, including Washington), then proceeded to enshrine language, religious, legal and education rights for the French. Canada was a dualistic society and that made it easier to embrace diversity.

James

by peter warren

I stand corrected. I think it must be the baseline population difference that makes the ratios so notable.

by peter warren

Can we all agree that today the world is much different than it was when our ancestors arrived in North America? To address the issue of immigration, we need to focus on the world as it exists now, not on how it existed in the past.

by onbliss

...has the immigrations been always legal? I ask this question for my education.

by mickster269

Usually with various guidelines. Depending on the time frame though, some groups have been restricted from entering the USA.

No doubt, there has always been people entering the USA illegally- and by that, I mean not following the set procedures of the time. It's not like 12 million people from Mexico entered the USA all at once, or even only in the past 5 years.

I just wonder if it's this week's/month's/Election Year's hot topic, and once November 7th passes, it will be old news?

~ edit due to misspellings

by onbliss

Yeah, I like that phrase. It is a key aspect as we can not impose modern standards on to the past. So when did the first set of restrictions put into place? 17th, 18th, 19th century? Or immediately after Independence?

by jdclyde

they bought everything in advance.

They still got everything they would have, just on another day.

This type of thing has no impact.

Now, for them to have been effective, they could have ONLY SHOPPED AT STORES OWNED BY IMMIGRANTS. by still doing their normal shopping, but with other vendors, THEN there is actually a loss of business for anybody.

by mickster269

With the enactment of the Naturalization Act of 1790.

some other interesting dates:

1875 Supreme Court declared that regulation of US immigration is the responsibility of the Federal Government.

1882 The Chinese Exclusion Act prohibited certain laborers from immigrating to the United States.
1885 and 1887 Alien Contract Labor laws which prohibited certain laborers from immigrating to the United States.

1891 The Federal Government assumed the task of inspecting, admitting, rejecting, and processing all immigrants seeking admission to the U.S.

1892 On January 2, a new Federal US immigration station opened on Ellis Island in New York Harbor.

1903 This Act restated the 1891 provisions concerning land borders and called for rules covering entry as well as inspection of aliens crossing the Mexican border.

1907 The US immigration Act of 1907 reorganized the states bordering Mexico (Arizona, New Mexico and a large part of Texas) into Mexican Border District to stem the flow of immigrants into the U.S.

1917 - 1924 A series of laws were enacted to further limit the number of new immigrants. These laws established the quota system and imposed passport requirements. They expanded the categories of excludable aliens and banned all Asians except Japanese.

by oz_media

The US is more of a melting pot for immigrants than a multicultural country.

In Canada, we encourage immigrants to retain their nationality, language and customs, in the US they are expected to assimilate English speaking Americans.

I've met a lot of chinese people in or from the US, they speak with a US drawl, barely a trace of Chinese accent to be found.

In Canada, they would answer you in their native language and RARELY understand what ytou are saying in the simplest form with gestures to boot.

by oz_media

I seem to have missed the time in history when th eMayflower was invited to the new land of America. Did the indians check for green cards or did you just land, and help yourselves?

America, land of the hypocrite.

by jdclyde

you will see that much of the land was not occupied by anyone.

The MAJORITY of the "Indians" were nomads that traveled following the heards. They HAD no lands to take.

SOME farmed the lands.

Good thing nothing like this happened in Canada when people started coming in? You paint yourself with that same broad stroke.

And Canada no more allows just anyone to walk in and live than the US does, so your just making yourself look stupid, instead of just nuts.

What exactly does the Canadian government do if they find ANYONE that is living in the country illegally? Why do they have to be ther illegally in the first place?

Because EVERY country needs a way to control the flow of people entering the country. SS number have to be assigned so people can get lawful employment is a good start.

by oz_media

Is that I am not the one complaining about immigrants, being one myself.

It doesn't MATTER what Canada does/did, I am not complaining that immigrants shouldn't be here.

YOU are from an immigrated family, please prove otherwise. WHO was on American soil is irrlevant, YOU helped yourselves and are NOT natives of the land. Stop feeling so damn proud and realize that you are an immigrant too.

by jdclyde

http://www.geocities.com/jeffs_home/pics/IM001143.jpg

As I was just finishing up my long awaited divorce (chronicled here on TR in agonizing detail) I needed to come up with a Halloween costume for the party I go to every year that would help keep the news of the split on the light side.

I even found a way that the ex could still come to the party! ]:)

The avitar is a shrunk down version of the two of us in our last picture taken together. How sweet! ;\

by vanessaj

Thank you so much for the larger pic and the LOL. I don't get to laugh at my computer that often...(usually emot's of a different kind). Great pic, though. Been following your posts...love 'em. A sure, pragmatic voice in a din of media-soaked, hollywood-ethics, don't know their left-wing from what's right voices. Keep up the good work. Still waiting for a reply, tho' at https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=193606&messageID=1998265

I think I "got'cha" on one point. Take care. Keep postin'!

by jdclyde

to understand the working of the female brain.

I just try to keep my whimmering down as I am curled up in the fetal position in the corner in hopes they won't notice me! :D

by oz_media

You are SO personally offended and defensive when ANYONE mentions the US that you completely run off track on your little tangents.

PLEASE, I'll make this easy to follow, "show me where I said it was better."

Why is every discussion with you a pis$ing contest? We are NOT discussing who has better immigration laws, sorry but you'll have to start a new thread for that one.

My post merely explained that we are MUCH more multicultural in Canada as WE don't even expect people to assimilate English speaking Canadians. We let people hold onto their culture and language and find that each society/religion/race can coexist without problems. We don't expect everyone to be the same, we actually embrace the differences.

It's the same cultural value as you would find by eating at a REAL Chinese restaurant as opposed to a crappy one full of tourists. The cultural experience of eating REAL/GOOD Chinese food, surpasses the experience of eating food simply called and made by Chinese.

If you see a room full of Chinese people in the restaurant, eat there, if it's all white locals, run screaming.

Do you get it now? Cultural diversity is what makes multiculturalism work. Assimilation is for sheep or lemmings.

by vanessaj

...sometimes that might be the smartest defensive position to take on one of my bad days. Maybe that's why gun control seems more of a male debate most of the time...women don't need them!

by jdclyde

you can't understand the difference between the grownups having a discussion of ILLEGAL ALIENS, and legal immigration.

I will for the moment ASSUME that you are a LEGAL immigrant to Canada. Why? Why didn't you just sneak in? I know your not a citizen and can't vote, but you ARE there legally.

WHY ARE YOU A LEGAL IMMIGRANT? WHY DID YOU NOT SNEAK IN TO THE COUNTRY? (is that clear enough for you?)

My relatives ARE all legal immigrants, and they became legal citizens. I AM damn proud and no I will not stop being so. I AM NOT an immigrant, I am the decendent of immigrants.

Just like the Indians migrated to the US, so did my relatives. Neither spontaniously appeared here, and even with the monkeyboy theroy, there was still a migration.

I AM a native American because I was born here. (look the term up sometime).

Once again, your being loud and abusive does not make you correct.

The ONLY conversation is about ILLEGALs. NO ONE here has said ANYTHING bad about legals, and I have clearly stated several times that the process to become legal should be streamlined to allow more good people in. But that does not fit with your image of who or what you think I am so it is ignored.

by rkuhn040172

That's also how the Spanish and Portugese took South and Central America, how the English took North America and the French and Brits took Canada.

What's your point?

Don't blame me for what happened hundreds of years ago. Move on.

BTW, the Spanish were much more violent and cruel than the Brits and French in conquering the West.

And just how many of these Mexicans are Spanish decendents and not really true Mexicans?

by oz_media

The first problem I see is that you replied to a comment directed toward someone else, which never works out. I am left once again explaining myself to bring you up to speed.

Second problem, you are being a typically textbook defensive American. The old childish game of 'YOu did it too' doesn't actually work in real life.

Here's why;
1)Show me where I said Canada did nto do the same thing. Please post a link to that comment if you are going to point fingers.

Point is, you are just being defensive, while I said nothing about Canadian immigration history, you have decided to point it out in defense. This is of course, completely dense. I am saying that peopl ewho are immigrants, have no place complaining about immigrants. To this, your wity retort was that Canada did it too.

Don't be so ignorant, of course we did, the point is, we are ALL immigrants and to say that YOU are allowed to immigrate and others aren't is, once again, typically American hypocrisy.

What's funny is that even after all teh complaints here, you STIL claim you are multcultural, dont make me laugh.

And once again, read what you are replying to, or allow those it was directed at to reply if you can't.

by oz_media

This discussion has VERY little mention of illegal immigrants, thus why I requested the title was changed. In fact my first post here shows that I clearly understand the nature of the post and that it was incorrect.

OTHERS, have been droning on and on about immigrants, not ILLEGAL immigrants in teh USA.

YOU don't seem to be able to determine which is which and therefore have become fodder for fun.

by oz_media

I have always frowned at those who FLEE from their country and show no interest in becoming a part of my own. In MANY cases, these people work to learn the language and the culture, in many they don't.

Those who DO absorb a new culture generally are more successful, they earn more and assimilate a society by choice.

Those who dont will generally suffer as a minority, will get lower wages, will work harder at more demanding jobs and not be as happy.

But then I realized that some peopl ear ejust too old to learn new language, new work skills and new ways of life, bu why SHOULD they stay in their homeland and be repressed or punished for it? We are much more culturally accepting, we live healthy happy lives that others want, deserve and shoul be welsome to, no matter who's language, religion or food they prefer.

Now I know that in the USA you still have the cordfed ignorance to overcome in many states, but these poeple will also in turn suffer. They will either join the forces and pay the prioce there or simply slop hogs for the rest of their life while they complain about eh free world around them.

It's reading through such ignorant posts, as we see here, that actually makes me proud to not be an American. And those attitudes are EXACTLY what other Canadians see in Americans and it sings louder than any kind hearted and accepting American can sing, unfortunately for the more educated Americans that just don't make enough senseless, selfish noise. Then again, that's why they are liked.