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by justathought

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I would be interested and appreciate your views on death, the questions it brings into our life, the way it changes our world.

How does it affect the idea of our own mortality?

How does it alter our priorities and values in life?

The impact on our spirituality, for those who hold beliefs?

how does it affect our own "personal" identity?

174 replies

by tony hopkinson

Well affects mortality by putting an end to it!
LOL
I don't think about dying well, only when I do something life threatening and then only for that short interval before I realise I got away with it again.
Spirituality is something I see no purpose in believing in.

by justathought

I realised my questions were not properly presented, what I meant to say is :

How the death of a loved one affects our own mortality, our priorities and values in life, the impact on our spirituality and our own identity.

by tony hopkinson

as yet. They all know I love them, that's all that matters. Where they or I go after death, if there is anything after a death is something I can wait to find out. I can also wait to find out how crap it's going to feel until it does happen.
Won't affect my identity at all though, nor is the thought of my own death or anyone elses, going to turn me spiritual. I have more respect for them and for myself to wallow in that sort of self pity or fear.

by dmambo

My father went Sept of last year and my mother went down like a stone and followed him last January. My mother always had a strong belief in an afterlife and seemed that she was just impatient to get back with her husband. It really seemed to me that she was more worried after he died that he just needed her there to look after him. It certainly took all the fear of death out of her. I know that she wanted to go.

As for me, the main fear I have is that my family needs me around for another couple of decades. I don't think I'm afraid of dying, but I'm afraid to leave the kids behind.

by jardinier

Actually I think the discussion would have been more interesting if you had left it in the original form.

However having said that, I will attempt to answer with a few instances from real life. While there has never been a death which has particularly impacted on my life, it certainly has been devastating to some people.

1. A women who used to live in my block of condos lost one of her two daughters when the daughter was killed in a motor accident at the age of 33.

This woman died emotionally at that point and never recovered. She had to terminate the relationship she was having at the time and her only wish was that she would die. She did in fact make one failed suicide attempt during the time that I knew her.

2. An Italian woman who worked in a greengrocery lost a son, aged in his late 20s and engaged to be married, in a freak accident when a truck fell on his car and killed him. She continued to work in the shop but for many years she was crying all the time. She has now stopped crying but has a gaunt, tragic look in her eyes.

3. A next-door neighbour lost her son (aged around 30 if I recall) when he died in his bed from some undiagnosed symptom. She could no longer bear to live in the same house and so she moved to a part of Sydney quite some distance away.

4. My father's funeral was a bit of a joke because, although he was a man of principle and integrity, no-one close to him really liked him and the only person crying at the funeral service was his brother who cried uncontrollably in any situation as a result of a stroke.

As for my own feelings towards death: most of the regulars on this site know that I was admitted to hospital two years ago suffering a leaking mitral valve in my heart. Although this did not require surgery (although the doctors would have liked to practise on me) I was faced for the first time with my own mortality.

Heart disease, like cancer and other potentially fatal conditions, was something that happened to other people. I was shocked when I reached the point -- prior to going into hospital -- that I could not function. I could barely walk and felt exhausted just standing up.

So I now have the awareness that at some point my life WILL end and that I want to make as much progress as I can on my various projects while I am still able to.

by jaqui

we are all gonna die, ain't no way around it.
get on with your life and live it to the fullest.
don't be depressed about it, live every minute as if it's your last.
and most importantly:
after death THERE AIN"T ANY MORE TAXES!!!!!!

by maecuff

I have no idea what happens when a person dies. I suspect nothing happens, but what do I know? Either way, it's going to happen, I can't do anything about it and I don't worry about it one way or another. I do, however, use it as an excuse to buy too many shoes and purses. I'm going to die one day, I may as well have these things while I can..

by sleepin'dawg

Fear of death is a conceit in that you are implying that you know there is something to be afraid of. Since nobody has ever come back to tell us what it is like, how could anyone be afraid unless they have always had an unreasoning fear of the unknown. I do not fear the unknown preferring to view it as a challenge and an opportunity to learn something new. Another thing to think of is that death is inevitable. Nobody gets out of this life alive. Dying on the otherhand is something to worry about. If I could be assured of dying quickly and painlessly, I wouldn't worry. My fear is a long drawn out debilitating and painful illness which would/could only end with one result and would leave me with no dignity and an impoverished estate. Beliefs??? Why??? We'll only find out once we're there but in the mean time why worry. Be happy.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by jdclyde

isn't something I fear or worry about.

I only hope I am around long enough to hold my grandson/daughter some day.

That is my long term goal.

Not much of a goal by some peoples standards, but I can't think of anything more important.

by maecuff

is a wonderful goal! I only hope I get a granddaughter. I want someone to shop for shoes, makeup and purses with. My stepdaughters were old when I got them and it's too late to get them interested in 'girly' stuff. I have a 3 year old neice who LOVES girly stuff, but she lives 3 hours away and her mother and I (my sister) are barely civil to each other, so that makes it hard.

I'd like to live long enough to watch my kids discover who they are.

by ujohnson_05

I hope Im around long enough to see some kids of my own. Death doesn't worry or scare nme everbody will die someday.

by m_a_r_k

I'm going to heaven. I'll be waving at you all heathens down here on earth still paying taxes.
Since I'm going to heaven, I'm not worried at all about dying. I'm more worried about what I leave behind. Like my dogs. Who's gonna take care of them? And what will happen to my TR account?

Death of a loved one doesn't affect my spirituality. When it's your time to go, you're gonna go. A person's death may be tragic to the people left behind. But if you believe in such things, the person will be going to heaven if he or she believes also. So his or her death is a great thing for him or her. We cry when someone dies because we'll miss that person and maybe we're selfish. We want the person to stay here with us in this living hell known as earth rather than going to eternal bliss in heaven.

by dmambo

It'll be a slow decline out of the top 100. Each passing day you will drop until one sad day, there's just a single bar in the graphic and you're just another unused account. It's too sad to even contemplate.

Fare thee well, MARK. You will be missed.

by m_a_r_k

I'd rather go out quickly. In a blaze of glory. Or die in my sleep. I don't want to wither away. Same goes for my TR account. I'm going to plant a logic bomb in my TR account that is set to go off on as soon as I keel over. I'm taking as many people with me as I can. haha I plan on living another 60 or 70 years, though. I wonder if TR will still be around then.

by ldyosng

If you are asking this because you are struggling to wrap your mind around the death of a loved one, please accept my condolences. Grieving is the most isolated experience I think anyone can experience. It's even more isolated than depression, in my experience.

After years of not grieving over things that I should have grieved over, I lost my best friend to a sudden massive heart attack. The dam of feelings finally broke, and I cried with body-shuddering depth. It was the best thing I've ever allowed myself to do.

After years of fearing that grief would drive me insane, I just let it all out and discovered that it passes, just like other feelings.

My favorite book on the subject of death is: The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying. Even if you don't embrace the philosophy, it will give you a new perspective. I strongly recommend the book.

Best of fortune to you as you explore this subject. You will know so much more about yourself when you are done.

by justathought

Thank you Ldyosng, it is exactly the struggle, I do have that book , but grief is a monster as you seem to know, you are well and then out of the blue come the waves of despair.

So many questions come where they were none, what we thought we were, and the way we think is so different than before, somehow our all life is in some chaos, it is one step forwards then backwards again.

Thank you for your kind words

by stargazerr

Before I start yakking, please accept my condolences.

Although no one close to me has ever died ... but 9 years ago (when I was 14 years old), my mum suffered a massive stroke.

Life has never been the same since ... I am still the Happy Go Lucky person I used to be, but somehow, I have this big empty space inside me which no one can fill.

It hasnt made me spiritual (my Grandfather has enough interest in spirituality to cover the lack of mine :D ). I am not afraid of death but my mother's illness has made me want to live every second of life to its fullest.

by gadgetgirl

At the age of 11, I lost my favourite cousin (substitute brother; I?m an only child) due to very convoluted and tragic circumstances. It was a very young age to be forced to face mortality ? at 11, dying was only for the old. Not for my Micky, who enjoyed life, had a quirky sense of humour, made the most of everything, and wasn?t still for a moment. It wasn?t until I was 13 that it finally hit me that I would never get him back. I suppose death wasn?t explained that well to me, I always had the feeling I?d see him again. Although I?d been missing him for those years, I hadn?t been grieving, just holding it all inside.

Like Ldyosng, I had an unexpected opening of the floodgates. I can?t even recall what it was, it was so trivial. But it released an uncontrollable sobbing that couldn?t be quelled. A Sunday School teacher suggested I did two things; the first was to write down everything I wanted to say to Micky ? including how angry I was that he wasn?t there, the fact that I never got the chance to say goodbye (same as all the family) or to tell him how much I loved him. Well, an 11 year old doesn?t express her feelings to a 15 year old cousin, does she? The second thing was to write down everything that I felt had changed my outlook, whether on my life in general, my attitude, or my feelings towards other people.

I still have those papers. About once every ten years or so, I?ll read the second one. The first one I have still left sealed. They may be the feelings of a child, but they were true feelings nonetheless. But the second list can be quite enlightening. I see how my attitude has ?adjusted? over the years. In a way, I suppose it also explains my reluctance to be emotionally involved with anyone other than people I hold extremely close to me; I still intermittently get the feeling that everyone is going to die and leave me alone, which is part of what I think you may be feeling right now. Those feelings do lessen with time; although I have to state that they never go away in their entirety. They just occur less and less often. Unfortunately, having elderly parents has made them recur ? luckily only twice in the past ten years.

Don?t get me wrong, it?s not a clinical depression, more a feeling of extreme loneliness and a distinct lack of enthusiasm for life. But, believe me, it does go away. Don?t be in a hurry to either start or finish the grieving process; it?ll take as long as it takes. But writing down your concerns etc. may help you settle your mind, and give you a direction in which to focus your thoughts and feelings.

Believe it or not, it was this episode that brought me to writing poetry, so I have Micky to thank for that.

Peer mail me anytime you need to. My heartfelt condolences on your loss.

GG

by jardinier

At the point in time when my father died 32 years ago, I was a complete failure by his standards. I did not have a university degree; my marriage was a dismal failure and I had just resigned from my job as a journalist.

My father was very musical and had played the organ in church in his younger days. Towards the end of his life he acquired a second-hand organ and played it.

After his death -- and not to try and emulate him but just because I liked the instrument -- I painstakingly taught myself to play the organ in a rudimentary fashion. I also discovered that I could compose music and over the years wrote more than 150 songs and 4 short baroque-style pieces for keyboard.

I then WISHED (though did not believe) that my father was looking down on me from heaven and would be very pleased at my accomplishments in music.

Somewhat more than 20 years after his death I attended a church which had a large and powerful pipe organ -- in fact the largest in my area of Sydney. I was permitted to practise on the organ whenever I liked and it was an awesome experience to be at the controls of this marvellous instrument.

And now I come to the point of this post. One morning about half a dozen of us were holding a prayer meeting at the front of the church adjacent to the organ. I started to tell the other people my thoughts about how my father would be pleased and proud of me.

But I couldn't even complete the first sentence. I broke down into uncontrollable sobbing.

My take on this, after the sobbing settled down, was that I had been carrying an unconscious burden of guilt because my father had died thinking of me as a failure.

But then again it may just as likely have been that I had NEVER grieved over his death.

by advancewithit

If you have no spiritual belief in the afterlife then life is nothing more than a desperate struggle towards oblivion. I'm sure life is more than that.

Read Dannion Brinkleys 'Saved By The Light' for a fantastic firsthand account of what happens to us when we die.

by stargazerr

is LIFE AFTER LIFE .... it has real life experiences of what happened to people who had clinically died, but were revived again.....

Fantastic Read ....

by Member 25348569

We've had this discussion before.

Just because you think that there "has to be more" and you like what is said by one man who publishes a book about what he says happened to him doesn't make it true.

Even BlackPanther didn't stoop so low as to quote Dannion Brinkley! (If this is the same Dannion Brinkley who, during his NDE, had a whole bunch of visions about what would happen in the future. Well, he was wrong!)

Is this the Christian afterlife, the Muslim one, Buddhist reincarnation or something about which all religions are ignorant?

Anyway, so far, none of my relatives, friends and aquaintances who have died have given me any indication that there's anything else. Trust me, there would have been nothing a few of my religious aquaintances would have liked more!

I'm waiting...

by martin_ternouth

Every life makes a difference. We all remain largely unaware of
the difference we make, but the smallest gesture of kindness
can have vast consequences long after the act has been
forgotten. Grief is a measure of how much difference the life
departed has made to us.

by dmambo

My wife lost her father shortly after we were married and I think the loss affected her day-to-day activities more and for longer than my parents' death affected me. Of course there were many differences in circumstances, but I know the two of us handle these things differently.

As I read the reponses here, it seems that women externalize their grief more than men. Is it just my perception, or is there really a difference?

by stargazerr

Me and my brother, for example, are complete opposites of the Man Woman phenomenon ... He grieves more than I do ...

But yes, I think, in most cases, women do tend to grieve more than men ...

by m_a_r_k

In general, men think they aren't supposed to, or aren't allowed to, show emotions. We hold things inside. That's pretty common knowledge and is the subject of many a jokes about the differences between the sexes. In my opinion, that might be one reason why women tend to live longer. Bottled up emotions aren't very healthy. We're all human. We all have the same feelings. Sadness, happiness, etc. Why would men be less sad than a woman when a loved one dies?

by ginger

I lost a husband and a parent within 6 months of each other. Both had done the long drawn out waltz with death through cancer. I was their care taker, advocate and the role changes in these relationships are too numerous to mention. I had kids to care for, a job and the daily living that goes on with or without us.
I don't consider my own mortality much. Like someone said--I consider it when it is an immediate presence and I am grateful I passed thru whatever threatened me at that time.
My priorities and values are very basic and simple--be the best person I can be and live life doing no harm to others as best I can.
My spirituality shifted from the good practicing catholic to a belief system that is based on karma and trusting in a Higher Authority to take care of the things I cannot.
My own personal identity was lost and scattered for a number of years--I was, afterall, my mothers daughter and my husbands wife, his best buddy. We shared everything to the exclusion of others and I found myself without a 'rudder' when he left me.
Its been some years now--my kids are 'cool' decent people. I have remarried and my partner has added a new dimension to me but I think I will always feel somewhat 'detatched' as I move thru life. I don't cry anymore. I don't feel that crushing sadness. It does change. It does get better and different but I believe it is a time of my life I need to always remember and feel because it keeps me 'real' somehow.
My thoughts are with you.

by justathought

Hi Ginger,

Thank you for sharing your experience with me, the lost of personal identity is I guess what surprised me the most, I just did not recognised the person I thought I was.
Slowly I am rediscovering myself, but I am different now, and of course all we can do is try to do the best we can and take each day as it comes

by dc guy

It can be helpful to try to imagine what the person who died would tell you if you could talk to them. Or just contemplate your own death and how you would want people to react to it.

I will NOT want people, no matter how close they are to me, to get drawn into despair. Think about me fondly if they wish, get together and swap stories and memories, contrast the world with me and the world without me, sure.

But I don't want anyone to withdraw from their own life and become less than a whole person. That would not honor my memory, that would make me responsible for a terrible tragedy that I was by definition unable to do anything about.

I have lost my share of close ones, and when it happens I always talk about it with my first dog, who died many years ago. You can have a conversation with a dog that you might not be willing to have with another person because dogs never judge you.

When your dog dies (and this is a serious dog person speaking here so pay attention) you feel bad and you miss him. But "dog" is not just an identity, it's a job. When any job becomes vacant, it must be filled. You still need someone to keep the sofa in shape when you're too busy to do it, to tell you how silly you are, to remind you of life's priorities. So you get a new dog and he makes you happy without lessening your love for the old dog.

People aren't so different. They each perform a service in your life and if one of them leaves to take a job in Estonia or simply dies, you still require that service.

No dog does the job quite the way the previous dog did, but you get adjusted to each other. No one can relate to you the way a spouse or parent or child or sibling did, but you need to fill that gap in your life with SOMETHING. This is one situation in which it's okay to fill a round hole with a square peg. Eventually you won't be so conscious of the shape of the hole because you'll appreciate the qualities of the peg.

I know that all of my dear departed dogs would be glad to see that I'm not still consumed with grief, because all they ever wanted for me was to be HAPPY. And they would feel downright HONORED to find that I found what they added to my life to be so utterly essential that I still need someone to keep doing it.

That's the way I feel about my friends and loved ones. I want them to be happy now, and when I'm gone I still want them to be happy. And if they find someone new to provide what I provided, it must mean that what I provided for them turned out to be really important and that makes me feel good too.

Celebrate your loved one. Respect their wishes by continuing to live the life they wanted you to have. And honor them by allowing yourself to admit that the spot they filled in your life was so important to your happiness that you can't leave it empty.

by jardinier

Some 20 years ago I was living in Kings Cross, Sydney, and only visited my mother's place briefly twice a week to do my washing or mow the lawn etc.

My cat "Smokey" -- the best friend I ever had and the most intelligent person I have ever known -- apparently for her own emotional preservation became quite aloof because I only visited briefly twice a week instead of being there all the time.

One day there was a phone call for me at the Wayside Chapel (mission centre developed by Rev Ted Noffs for anyone who doesn't already know) and it was my mother to say that Smokey had disappeared. Well I was shattered and my mother said she felt sick in the stomach.

HOWEVER, Smokey showed up four days later apparently none the worse for wear. I assumed she must have wandered into someone's shed or garage and been locked in inadvertently.

In due course the day arrived when she had to be put done because she had developed a hernia and was too old to handle anaesthetic.

There were other cats of course but NONE could fill Smokey's shoes.

And here is a wonderful example of an animal?s intuition. Smokey always slept on my bed and tried to snuggle up close, restricting my movement, so I would shove her down to the end of the bed. Two days before Smokey was put down ? and it was not planned because she had not yet developed the hernia ? she insisted on getting in under the sheets and bedclothes. She had never done this before so I assume she knew she was going to die and wanted to be especially close to me for those two nights preceding her death.

by justathought

I can relate to the story of Smokey, I had a similar experience with my retriever last year, somehow he knew the end was near and would follow my every step as if he wanted to say goodbye.

I am at present living with 4 dogs and 2 cats and there is no need to tell you how much each of them are special, they bring a ray of sunshine into my life

by maecuff

going out in a blaze of glory. You're already dying a long slow death. Isn't that what we all do the moment we're born.

I'm just a f*cking ray of sunshine...

by m_a_r_k

What if I decide to strap myself to a rocket tomorrow and propel myself to the sun? In that case, I'll either die a slow death (from cold, lack of oxygen or nuclear radiation) or die in a blaze of glory if my rocket explodes.

by maecuff

Wouldn't that cost a lot? Did you get a grant? How do you know your rocket would make it out of our atmosphere? Who would launch it?

by justathought

Yes that is what I have noticed,like your mother all of a sudden the outlook on my own mortality changed, it is no longer something to talk about and somehow far away in the future, it becomes real and it is no longer an enemy to fear, but the inevitable part of life that could strike at any time.

by dmambo

...considered death more than an inevitable part of life. I think she really was impatient. For the last several years, her main purpose in life, in her mind, was to care for the old guy. When that purpose was gone, she was passively suicidal. She knew that all her kids and grandchildren were secure. She truly was concerned that she not become a burden to her family and, coming from a working-class background, she said she would never want to squander the fruits of life's work on nursing home care. She never wanted to leave her home of 50 years.

Personally, I would have rather seen her move in with me or one of my siblings and be around for several more years regardless of the "burden". But that was not part of her plan. She was far more afraid of what extening her life would mean than of dying. In my view, she spent 4 months willing death to come.

by stargazerr

May I ask, why have you written Namaste in the middle of a post about Death ??

Are you indian by any chance??

]:)

by ldyosng

It means that the spirit in me acknowledges and respects the spirit in Justa. I had written her a heart-felt message and she thanked me. It seemed the appropriate thing to do at the time.

Why do you ask?

by stargazerr

that Namaste is associated with spirituality ...?? Pardon my ignorance, I am a spirit and spirituality illiterate ....

I ask because I am an Indian, and it was good to see a word in my own language .. (I have been feeling lower than a grasshopper's knee, lately :) )

]:)

by dmambo

I'll bet there's sombody who's read his posts and would volunteer to launch the rocket. ;)

by m_a_r_k

NASA is always willing to fund crackpots like me who think of new and cheap ways to launch spacecraft. If not NASA, then surely the Russians will fund it. They're still trying to get to the moon, you know. And my plan won't be expensive. I'll buy an aluminum tube from Home Depot to serve as my rocket. I'll concoct a ferociously explosive mixture of jet fuel, gunpowder and peanut oil to serve as my rocket propellant. All told, less than $100.

I'll use a city park bench as my launch pad. I'm sure any passerby would be willing to assist with the blastoff. Who wouldn't want to participate in such a history-making event?

by dmambo

Sounds like you're just FILLED with the spirit of the holiday season. Who needs nitrous oxide when we have you?

Cheer up!

by m_a_r_k

Hey Ms. Sunshine, I'm not dying a slow death. I'm living a fast life. And I eat a bowl of oatmeal every other day for breakfast. Keeps me young and full of vim and vigor.

by maecuff

Well, you've got me there.. a bowl of oatmeal every other morning is the best reason for living I've heard in a long time...

by jdclyde

look silly.

Big house, fancy car, trophy wife, (well, I guess that last part isn't TOO silly :p )

I find I WANT less "stuff" all the time.

Sure, there are many things that are "fun" but none of them bring me the joy I get from just being with my boys. To see them grow up, marry and start families of their own.

For their 16th birtday, (three years away) I have already picked out the Marlin 30-30 that I will be getting them. It is a much nicer rifle than I would buy myself, but I want them to have something real nice that they can pass down to THEIR kids when THEY turn 16 telling them that their grandpa gave that to them when they were that age. My idea of immortality. To be remembered. They both already idolize the rifle I got from my grandfather and see what it means to me.

by maecuff

The older you get, the less you want. I really do not care about collecting a bunch of stuff. (Shoes and handbags aside).

My husband and I bought a table at a yard sale 10 years ago for $5 and it's still our dining room table, along with mismatched chairs we've collected over the years. I keep looking around at our furniture (nothing matches) and wondering when we're going to get grown up things. I've pretty much decided the answer to that is, NEVER. I'd rather spend the money DOING something than HAVING something.

by antuck

My brother passed away when he was 11. I was 16 at the time. It was a tragic death he had drowned. It was a very rough time. They kept him alive on machines for 26 hours. In that time his kidneys failed and had three cartiac arrests. Much to young for something like this. We as a family talked about what will happen. We all aggreed that if he couldn't come back the way he was, he should be with God. To have him living an a machine the rest of his life was not the way he had lived life.

I went to the hospital with my mother. We followed behind the ambulance. I remember my mom kept saying he was to small to be hit by a car and I kept telling her he wasn't hit by a car. At that time we didn't know exactly what happened. I just knew some how he wasn't hit by a car. One of the hardest things was going into his room and looking at him fighting for life. Like your cousin he was full of life and always had a smile on his face. It was very difficult seeing him moving up and down trying to breath. I felt all of my energy leave my body. I stood there and wished I had more to give to him at that time.

This happened in 1978. I still to this day can shed a tear when thinking of him and the events of that day. But I also know that I am still alive and need to continue. I don't really think of death that much. Other then knowing some day it will come. Everything in life is born to die. I have my purpose in life and continue to perform and find what it is.

The ironic part for me was, the day he drowned I had signed up for drivers ed. A month before I had made a promise to him. He was listening to headsets one night and I wanted to listen to them. I told him that if he let me listen to the headsets that night, I would take him for a ride in the car when I got my licence. When I got my licence, the first night I drove I gave him a ride. I have always been very lucky driving and feel part of it is because of my brother.

by antuck

I think women are taught to realize there feelings more then men. I remember when my brother died and my Grandfather yelling at me because I was crying. He told me we are men and need to be strong for the women. I was 16 at the time and didn't know what to do. I went to my room finished crying and came up with that stong feeling Gramps said I should have. And still feel that way today.

by stargazerr

Hair Loss and pot bellies in men?? Bottled up emotions (like hot air) cause you to blow up ... and the hair to pop out of your head ... :D

Sorry, My imagination runs away with me ..

]:)

by m_a_r_k

That's an excellent theory. I'm going to start crying every day to test it out. If I'm hairy as a gorilla and am anorexically thin by the end of the year, we'll know that this theory has some merit. Then I'll publish it in the Journal of the American Medical Association and reap millions from my discovery. Probably will even be nominated for a Nobel Prize.

by stargazerr

I think we have the Nobel prize in the bag .. We can use the money to do some research on what to do with the wiper blades ...

]:)

by stargazerr

I would be delighted to light a match under it ...

Whats more ... I will donate my old car's wiper blades :D

]:)

by m_a_r_k

I am trying to coordinate my launch date with the major news organizations. It would be good if you would volunteer to light the fuse. I'm not liable in case the thing explodes before you have a chance to run for cover.

What would I do with your old wiper blades? Use them for wings?

by maecuff

Alternate uses for wiper blades..

Conductor batons? A switch for misbehaving children? Or a switch for masochistic adults? A tool for measuring the depth of somewhat shallow holes?

by stargazerr

Using them as Feeler antennae for the rocket?? Or we could use them as an extension to light the fuse from a greater distance .. Will give me more time to run for cover .. :D

how about tying a white cloth to it and use it as a truce flag, in case you meet aliens on your way ??

]:)

by m_a_r_k

If we have enough wiper blades we can use Mae's suggestion. Use them as batons for a band conductor. I plan on having a band at the blastoff party.

Why haven't we thought of the most obvious use for these things? Does it ever rain in outer space? I didn't plan on having a windshield. It's just going to be me and a rocket strapped to my back. But if we think it's going to rain, you can bring the wipers and windshield that the wipers belonged to and I'll fasten the whole contraption to the top of my head.

I wonder if aliens are color blind. They probably are. That's why they have antennae on their head. They might take a white truce flag to be a matador's red cape. I don't want to be gored to death by an alien. On second thought, maybe that would be OK. That would allow me to go out quickly in a blaze of glory, which is what started this whole thread in the first place.

by maecuff

I just got terrible news from my mother and have spent the last hour staring blankly at my monitor. I opened up tech republic and see this thread. My sister's husband's twin brother has just been killed in a car accident. 31 years old.

I wish I knew that there was an afterlife. It just really doesn't make any sense to me. It seems to make as much sense to believe in the Easter bunny or Santa Claus. I wish I DID believe in it.

by maecuff

It's very sad and so stupid. He always drove like an idiot. I can't tell you how many times I told him that he would kill himself or someone else if he didn't stop. Now two people are dead and one is critically injured. My son was very close to him and he's not handling it very well. I feel bad for him and bad that I can't do anything to 'fix' it for him.

by stargazerr

I am so sorry ... I lost my uncle the same way ... the best a mum can do at such a time (from experience) is to just be there

by maecuff

I'm coming around. It just took me by surprise. I'm not too good at the whole 'death' thing. I hate being reminded that people I love are mortal.

by m_a_r_k

Mae, I'm a firm believer in heaven, an afterlife and an omnipotent, omnipresent God. No living person has any proof of any of that. I don't even know how to explain why I believe in any of it. So if one believes in this, how do you explain why bad things happen? I believe all things happen for a reason. Unfortunately the reason is not for us mere humans to understand. I believe something good always comes from something bad. Somehow, some way, some where, some time, the death of your sister's husband's twin brother will affect someone in a positive way. The possible ways are infinite. And it may not even be obvious. It probably WON'T be obvious. Some people can chalk it up to coincidence. If you stop and think about it, a lot of good things happen in our life that are the product of "coincidence". I call it the mysterious workings of an omnipresent God.

Two central themes of the Bible are humility and faith, which are actually two sides of the same coin. I believe that ALL good things and bad things are a test given to us by God. Heck, all of life for us rudimentary humans is a test. Good things are a test of humility. Do good things happen to me because I'm so great or because my omnipotent God is guiding me along the right path? Bad things are a test of faith. When things are really lousy, am I going to give up my faith or am I going to hang in there and rely on my omnipotent God to help pull me through? We have free will in how we respond to events in our life. The road signs are there. It is up to us to follow the right path. Even the saintliest saint often chooses the wrong path. I'm not even close to a saint. I choose the wrong path--the path of least resistance--way too often. I'm going to have one helluva lot of explaining to do to my God when I die. If God is keeping score, my score is negative. But I digress...

To make a long story short, this belief helps me ride through tough times. Yeah, tough times still suck and can be terribly painful and can make me seriously question God's intentions. But getting through a tough time makes me a stronger person. And through it all, I believe there's a grand plan that I'm a part of even though I'll never understand it until I do get to heaven.

by old guy

I realize that most of you seem to know each other fairly well through these discussions and maybe I should have introduced myself a couple of months ago when I started reading and posting in here. All that said, Mae, I, too, offer my condolences on your loss.

After reading all the posts here I would like to expound somewhat on what Mark has said. I too believe in Heaven and a loving, omnipotent God. I also, believe in and have my hope in Jesus in the Grace that He gives me to bring me to Heaven when I die. It is this hope that makes it easier to get through death of loved ones and the inevitable death of myself. (I am not trying to step on anyone?s different beliefs or trying to get any ?religious? arguments started.) This is my belief as well as a lot of other people?s belief. I can not imagine living my life not knowing, not believing, or not hoping in anything after death besides going home to Heaven. With that in mind, since this life on earth is only temporary then whatever happens here can not shake my faith. (for those of the same faith/belief) Knowing what Jesus paid for me then anything that I may suffer pales in comparison.

I have lost my Mom and Dad over the years and I have lost about three of my teens from our Youth Group. I also worked in an emergency room for about 15 years as a medical assistant. Yes, I?ve been around death a lot and it is this hope that gets me through it.

It was my daughter, when she was six years old, which really taught me how to face death. She and I were driving home from church one day and discussing our Christianity and all of sudden she said, ?Dad I can?t wait to die.? Can you imagine how that could shake a dad? However, I asked her why and she said, ?Because I want to hurry up and see Jesus.? Right then I learned how to live and what to look for. It was the beauty and love from a six year that taught me.

Note: I was flamed in here once before because I spoke of my faith. To all: I am not trying to say this is the only way nor am I saying anyone has to believe in any of this. I?m just saying this is where I am as well as a lot of other people.

by justathought

I am sorry about your loss, I know what you and your family are going through right now, grief can be overwhelming.

I wish you and your family all the strengh for the days ahead

by maecuff

I'm not looking forward to going home for the funeral. My sister and I had a falling out last Spring, if nothing else, perhaps this will be what it takes to be friends again.

by m_a_r_k

[iu]"My sister and I had a falling out last Spring, if nothing else, perhaps this will be what it takes to be friends again"[/i]

All things happen for a reason. And something good comes from all things that are bad.

BTW, one of my brothers and I had a falling out years ago so I know what that's like. It sucks to not even be friends with a close family member. I hope you two can reconcile your differences.

by stargazerr

The Band and the fuse lighting taken care of ...

You might want to use the wiper blades as swords to ward of aliens, in case you change your mind about being gored to death ...

You can even take my bathroom slippers so that you dont scorch your feet when you land on the sun ... Go in a blaze of glory if you must, but always take care of your feet till the last minute ..

]:)

by maecuff

I have slippers, but I wear them all over the house. My husband makes fun of them, because they are big, pink, fuzzy and sparkly.

I think they're adorable. And they make my feet look HUGE. You know what they say about women with big feet..

by stargazerr

Mine are pink and fluffy and huge too ... I think that is sort of the norm where bathroom slippers are concerned :D

]:)

by m_a_r_k

Ain't no way in hell am I going to wear big, pink, fuzzy slippers. I'll wear a pair of work boots. They should protect me when I land on the sun. And they are good weapons to help kick the pooh out of aliens. As a matter of fact, whenever I fly on an airplane (not just rockets), I like to wear heavy-soled shoes in case the plane goes down in a flaming ball of fury. Heavy-soled shoes will better allow me to walk away from said catastrophe. So far, it has worked very well. I haven't yet died in a plane crash.

Mae, women's feet that look big aren't the same as feet that are big. :D

by m_a_r_k

I have to share the money? I think any man that voluntarily commits to baling his eyes out every day for a month should garner all the proceeds from his humiliating adventure. He should also be committed to an insane asylum.

by maecuff

If we're supposed to buy that whole 'size doesn't matter' then it's only fair you do the same..

by ldyosng

I don't know if the origin is spiritual, but the current usage in the U.S. is very definitely spiritual.
Sorry my first reply to you was a bit clipped. I made a comment on a thread about France and was nearly roasted, so I was leery of the question about my race.
No - I'm not Indian. I'm mostly Scott, German and Irish. It's too bad you are feeling so low. I hope it passes soon and you find peace and comfort instead.

by stargazerr

The theory is going to help you live longer ... you bale your eyes out for a month and get rid of all your bottled up emotions ...

]:)

by maecuff

for a less extreme event. But, if anything good can come out of it, the better. Actually, it's been me who has been holding the grudge. I'm actually not one to hold a grudge ever, but she really hurt me.

My older son got caught with an illegal substance, which scared and upset me horribly. (Even though it was NO worse than anything I did at his age). Anyway, my sister had a fit over it. She said that if my son was at our mother's house, that her daughter couldn't be there. Zach loves his cousin whole heartedly and would never do anything to endanger her. That pissed me off, but on top of that, she told our other sister that the whole family would be better off if I had never been born. Thus negating my life and the lives of my children. I've had a difficult time letting go of that one. I know that she said it out of fear (even though she blew everything WAY out of proportion) and I'm sure she didn't mean it..but damn..that was pretty harsh.

by m_a_r_k

Gosh, I don't mean to underrate the issue between you and your sister and of course I know nothing about past history between you two, but it sounds like she was being very petty and she was just waiting for something to hold against you. Illegal substances are bad but she overreacted. Does she think your son is the only kid who has ever been caught with illegal substances, much less use them? And none of her daughter's friends have ever used them?

At least you have one event that you can work from to reconcile with your sister. I can't even pinpoint one event or issue between my brother and I. We're just very different people. We never have gotten along. One of us should be the better man and quit acting like immature idiots and start acting like brothers. For years I've had this nagging feeling that it is going to take a catastrophic event to bring us together. That nearly happened a few years ago when he gave the family some pretty bad news about himself. We reconciled temporarily, but like happens so often, it didn't last. When I was married my wife tried to bring us together, but since I got divorced, I don't have her around as an impetus to force me into at least communicating with him on occasion.

by maecuff

Her daughter is only 3, so it would be somewhat troubling if she were already involved in troublesome activities beyond sticking things in sockets.

My sister is a very harsh, opinionated and somewhat militant person, so it isn't out of character for her to be cruel. It's funny, because our father was not a nice man and she is the one out of the three of us who holds the biggest grudge against him, and she is also the one who is most like him.

We are also very different, but once we were both in our 20's, we pretty much accepted the differences and got on with life. She's 38 now and has mellowed quite a bit with age, however, if she gets upset, the claws come out. I understand about being a 'mama bear' when it comes to my neice, I am also extremely protective of my children (as are most parents) however, that protection extends to my neice as well, I would have never reacted that way if the roles had been reversed.

by m_a_r_k

I'll need more money to support myself in old age. I've been planning to go out in a blaze of glory as soon as I can get my rocket ready so I hadn't been investing for my retirement. So therefore, I will need all the Nobel money to support my noble balling experiment.

by stargazerr

Lets make the share 49-51 .... instead of the even 50-50 ...

I need the money because I have to figure out what to do with the wiper blades...Besides, if I am going to be lighting a match under you rocket ... I need to leave some money to my future kids, in case your contraption blows up ...

]:)

by stargazerr

My Dad has differences with his brother (my uncle), hence we dont get along with our cousins ... One of my cousins came over for a festival once and I was so happy (I foolishly thought, that maybe she wants to settle the differences) but she went back to hating us the next day ...

This has been going for 20 years and no one has mellowed with age ... Dad says it will be ok someday, but I doubt it ...

by m_a_r_k

except I'm tougher. :D

The wiper blades -- I thought you're going to give them to me for my rocket. If you have extras, sell them on eBay. Or better yet, sell them outright to the Smithsonian Museum or to NASA. The Smithsonian will want some remnant of my historic mission just like they have the original lunar module for public display. NASA will want the blades for whatever they plan to waste our tax dollars on next.

If my rocket blows up -- if these are in fact future kids that you are talking about, you won't have to leave money for them because my rocket will have blown you up before you've had them. If I don't launch until after you've had them, then bring them along to the launch party so they'll blow up with you.

by stargazerr

You are only going to be crying for a month ... we (women) have been bawling for centuries .. We have evolved that way ... so I am still going to be living longer than you ...

As for me blowing up ... I am using the wiper blades as an extension, so I will be far enough away.Even if your contraption does blow up in my face, I might get away with a missing nose ... I am going to need plastic surgery ...

I can do you a favor though .. I can give you $10 for a haircut after the month is over :D

]:)

by m_a_r_k

and because you'll need plastic surgery to buy a new nose, I'll split it with you. How's a 92% to 8% split, sound? I won't be needing the $10 for a haircut. Even if I do not go out in a blaze of glory and I return to earth, I will have all the hair burned off my head from the fire on the sun.

by stargazerr

You are right :D

Lets make it 90-10 .. and we are even ...

Out of the goodness of my heart, I will even let you take my pink fluffy slippers to wear as earmuffs..

]:)