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Different systems of government ...

By jardinier ·
I guess it is the Arnie thing that prompted me to start this discussion. No matter how well he may perform as Governor of California, because he was not born in the USA he can never become president. However (and please correct me if I am wrong) if he had been born in America with a father who was part African and part Arab, and a mother who was part Chinese and part Eskimo, he would be eligible to run for President.

This seems an odd situation to me, as ALL citizens of America (except for the remnants of the indigenous Indians who learnt too late that "White man speaks with forked tongue") are either immigrants or the descendants of immigrants or slaves. In fact of course it has been the input of immigrants which has largely made America the successful and powerful country that it is.

But it is virtually impossible to change the Constitution. In Australia it is somewhat easier, although of 44 items put to referendums between 1906 and 1999, only 8 have passed.

So please: your ideas for the "perfect" government, or the pros and cons of different systems of existing governments, preferably from citizens of those countries.

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An immigrant nation

by maxwell edison In reply to Different systems of gove ...

America certainly is an immigrant nation, but the same could be said for almost every nation on earth if one were to go back far enough. Even the indigenous Indians were immigrants, suspected to migrate from Asia into Alaska and down into what is now the continental U.S. Were they the first to walk those beautiful lands? We don't know for sure. I suppose it's logical to assume that some people were the very first to step foot upon the land, just as is true for every land. Then over the course of history, they were either pushed off or assimilated.

For the most part, I believe, this era of conquest has stopped. At what point will the status quo be accepted, and the consequences of the era of conquest be no more than immaterial ancient history?

Nonetheless, you are correct in what you asserted in your first paragraph. But I don't think it's as odd as you do. I don't know for sure, but I would venture to guess that most nations have a similar rule for their top leader. Could I, for example, go to France or Australia or Great Britain and occupy the top office there? (A real question, as I don't know the answer.)

I'm glad the founders put that clause in our Constitution, and, In my opinion, it should remain. All of out Presidents have been born onto this land, even the early ones, although they were born onto it as British subjucts. Our eigth President, Martin VanBuren Was the first to be born an "American citizen". If there's ever an attempt to amend that clause, I'll be quite diligent in my efforts to defeat it. It's not "impossible", by the way, to change our Constitution. It is, however, quite difficult. Out of thousands of attempts, only 27 times has it been done.

More on my "perfect government" later.

Great discussion topic, by the way.

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I understand...

by GuruOfDos In reply to An immigrant nation

Former President Alberto Fujimori of Peru is actually a Japanese national.

Adolph Hitler wasn't actually a German, he was Austrian.

Hang on a minute? Wasn't Arnie Austrian-born? Not that I'm likening Arnie to Adolph...but perhaps that's what California needs...a dictator who makes decisions and sees them carried out - or else.

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Australian Prime Minister ...

by jardinier In reply to An immigrant nation

The Prime Minister of Australia is selected (by vote of the governing party) from the House of Representatives. Requirements for becoming a member of the lower house, according to the Australian Constitution Act (1900) are as follows:

"He must be of the full age of twenty-one years, and must be an elector entitled to vote at the election of members of the House of Representatives, or a person qualified to become such elector, and must have been for three years at the least a resident within the limits of the Commonwealth as existing at the time when he is chosen:
(ii) He must be a subject of the Queen, either natural-born or for at least five years naturalized under a law of the United Kingdom, or of a Colony which has become or becomes a State, or of the Commonwealth, or of a State."

So there is no reference to place of birth, only to citizenship. However I will contact the Australian Electoral Commission during the week to confirm this information.

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Guru for Aussie PM!

by GuruOfDos In reply to Australian Prime Minister ...

Nah! Somehow I think not! Give the job to Kevin 'Bloody' Wilson!

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At least then we all would have a very good

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Guru for Aussie PM!

Reason to laugh at our Prime Minister. At least Kevin Bloody Wilson is funny, have you ever tried to listed to the current Australina Prime Minister one John Howard when he is talking at length on something? You just fall asleep he is really that booring that you have to excape into unconsciousness to get away from his boring monolog that is dilervered in such a draining voice that it is impossible to maintain interest. Now if only they could bottle his talking our PBS {for the non Aussies here this means the subsisded medical drug list} would be back in the black as it would never be necessary again to get any sleeping pills from your local Doctor.

And it could also be used for adversion therepy if you don't tow the line and do as you are told we will make you sit down and listen to the Prime Minister speak or worse still make him put in a personal apperance all 5 foot 9 inches of him and he is as good as deaf as well since he has been this way since early childhood and requires hearing aids to be able to hear what he is told.

Sometimes I think that his hearing aids aren't working as he choses to answer a question with something that is totally unrelated to what he was asked but then I remember he is a Politition isn't he.

Buy the way Jules good to see that you followed my advice and got a copy of our Constitution, it makes for some interesting reading doesn't it?

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Thanks Colin, but ...

by jardinier In reply to At least then we all woul ...

Before your advice I already had stored on my hard drive (for quick reference) the following documents:

The Magna Carta;
Declaration and Resolves of the First Continental Congress;
The Declaration of Independence;
The Articles of Confederation;
The Constitution of the United States of America;
United Nations Declaration of Human Rights;
Legacy: from the Constitutions of Eleven Nations;

and of course the Australian Constitution and Amendments.

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Jules I can't see the Ausie Constitution

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Thanks Colin, but ...

In that lot that you nention However as you have already mentioned the International Charter on Human Rights you will find it interesting that it superceeds and AUstralian Laws once it has been Ratified by the Connomwealth of Australia and these instriments have the force of LAW here in AU that can not be legislated out of existance or changed in any way except by ratifing a new version of the treaty that allows more rights then the previous one did.

So it is possible for a foregin National who has several children to different Women here in Australia to import Herion {and we are talking in something like a ton of this stuf here} get caught and not be deported because it is not in the best interestes of his children as rulled by the FUll Bench of the High Court here which under the Statute of Westminister is the Highest Court in the land.

However as you have also mentioned the Magna Carta which is a very interesting Documnet which starts "In Perportituty and for all Time we grant these rights." We here is the Royal we and stands for any person from the British Crown how at whatever time holds that office and they are bound by this as King James has singed this docqument and made then responsible for its contents for all time. This is a somewhat different aspect that has never previously or since been granted but it does raise an interisting question in the english translation from the Latan that it was written in they have numbered each different right which never was done in the Latan one but I think that it is Item 35 that states that "No Free Man Shall be allowed to have a Complaint Bought Against Them By An Officer Of The Crown" Now that one makes every speeding or trafic ticket ever issued somewhat hard to enforce as if anyone was to demand their right and have the matter Refered to the Court of Original Juristiction which would be the Privi Council in this case as the High Court of Australia doesn't have Original Jurstiction over English Law only Law written and passed within Australia the Statute of Westmenster could not apply here and the High Court would have to pass this one on to the Privi Council who would have to find that the Police Officer along with others conspired to comit Treason by breaking the terms of the Magna Carta.

Now wouldn't it be interesting if someone ever tried this?

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Magna Carta

by john_wills In reply to Jules I can't see the Aus ...

It was signed by King John, not King James.

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Jules scrap the reference to

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Thanks Colin, but ...

The Ausie Constitution as you left some space there and it wasn't on the page as I read it but the rest still stands.

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Utopia desired

by jkaras In reply to Different systems of gove ...

The issue with leaders is the temptation of power and money rather than the altruistic need to create a better place. I feel that a politician should come from the poor side of the tracks rather than from an elite family that owes favors to continue the family names. In my opinion only someone who experiences the necessities or lack of life could only understand the important things. Things like affordable insurance that covers whats necessary rather than sorry we cant fix you cause your insurance is lacking so either we do band aid care or sorry cant touch you leaving you for dead when they took an oath that ALL LIFE IS SACRED. Our education system is horrible where kids dont have desks or books, our determination of a good college is based on how much it costs or how good the sports program is. Most families of three cannot afford to send their children to college to give them a fair shot dependant on grants, or scholarships. People live in debt and cannot afford to live debt free live our forefathers did. Nobody can afford to buy a new car without being in debt for years getting screwed on the resale. Women should get paid as much as a man so single mothers could provide a better environment for their children, lets face it the sacrifice they give still falls way way short. Free enterprise, how many people actually can name more than 5 businesses that they frequent rather than the marts or depots for most of their shopping. Lastly I cant for the life of me understand the abandonment to our farmers that work really hard to produce food only to get it subsidised for less money and the destroyed. The farmers are loosing their land and the food that could go to needy countries to ease suffering is destroyed rather than used? I'm sure we could save the money we give for support that barely goes to the suffering that goes into the leaders pocket could be put to better use in other areas. Also the space program can only live up to its expectations if all countries got involved in true collaberation to advance our societies, all can profit, learn to work well with others breaking down racial hatred to name a few. Call me crazy but the world would be a greater place if our leaders actually worked as hard to fix the problems of our world as the comman man does for minimum wage.

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