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    DOWNLOAD: Seven warning signs that you should turn down a job offer

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    by jodygilbert ·

    http://techrepublic.com.com/5138-10881-5766711.html

    After you take a look at this download, please post your feedback, ideas for improvements, or further thoughts on this topic.

    Thanks,
    –The TechRepublic Downloads Team

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    • #3184415

      Another exercise in negativism

      by amcol ·

      In reply to DOWNLOAD: Seven warning signs that you should turn down a job offer

      This is a nit I’m getting tired of picking, but I really don’t get TR’s chronic insistence on portraying almost everything from the negative perspective. It’s not your fault this particular author chose to write in this fashion, but I’m sure you have some way of finding writers who have a different point of view.

      Case in point…here’s my quick rewrite just of the seven basic points, which I’d retitle “Seven positive signs that you should accept a job offer”:

      1. The employer provides a written offer of employment.

      2. You believe strongly in the company’s mission.

      3. Turnover in this particular position is low.

      4. The interviewer has realistic expectations about your abilities.

      5. The company’s goals mesh with your own.

      6. The salary offered is in line with other positions in the region and industry.

      7. The job is a step forward and has clear advancement opportunities.

      That wasn’t too hard, was it? We’re all adults and professionals (ostensibly) so we can figure out for ourselves what the other side of this coin would be. I’m not advocating we look at the world through rose colored glasses, but I have a problem with the constant stream of depressing negativism most of your contributing authors portray.

      It’s so depressing I’m getting depressed at being so depressed. Where’s my Paxil?

      • #3188274

        Another exercise in POV

        by too old for it ·

        In reply to Another exercise in negativism

        Not 100% sure, but TR’s (writers/editors) point of view could be from the geek who is working in the trenches and not in the executive suite of the administration building on the corporate HQ campus. At least it seems so.

        Either place tends to give one a rather insulated view of the rest of the industry, which as has been mentioned before, is more often an integral part of some other business enterprise rather than “pure IT”.

        (Did any “pure-play” IT companies make it out of the dot-com bust?)

        BTW, use Paxil-CR … trust me on this one.

      • #3188118

        Beware of Buzzwords and Misrepresented Positions

        by why me worry? ·

        In reply to Another exercise in negativism

        I can’t beging to tell you how many times I have wasted my time going to ibterviews only to find that some moron in their HR dept had no clue about the position and simply threw out industry buzzwords, such as MCSE, A+, CCNA, CNE, etc. simply because they want somebody who is “certified” but have no clue about the ideal candidate for their position. Having a certs does mean squat these days, as I have worked with so called “MCSEs'” and other “certified” individuals who couldn’t fix a stuck key on their keyboards if they had to. Another big thing to watch out for is what I call the “one man IT shop” position, in which they expect you to be a systems admin, pc repairman, programmer, WAN and telecomm guru, all for a bullcrap salary that would make most locksmiths laugh at you. It’s out there, and these so called “technical recuiters” are pushing this crap to find gullible and naive individuals who would work themselves into an early grave for a peasly salary barely inline with market standards. Let those foreign H1-B morons work themselves like slaves, but as professionals and Americans, we should not settle for lower working standards or lower salaries when we are considered “professionals” in the industry.

    • #3184868

      Another idea

      by rknrlkid ·

      In reply to DOWNLOAD: Seven warning signs that you should turn down a job offer

      Maybe along with high job turnover could be

      “Why has this position been vacant for so long?”

      I have noticed that certain positions stay empty for a long time. When I read the job duties and found out the salary offered, I wasn’t surprised! Some positions need the byline “Masochists only need apply.”

    • #3184861

      Stop the downloads!!!

      by chriswfl ·

      In reply to DOWNLOAD: Seven warning signs that you should turn down a job offer

      Why can’t this be a normal web page? Knock off the downloads.

      • #3184825

        I agree with this completely!

        by jetgirl_kj ·

        In reply to Stop the downloads!!!

        I often find myself wanting to read an article, but turn it down if I have to download something.

        • #3184732

          New state of the art Download technology

          by tenderfoot ·

          In reply to I agree with this completely!

          The download option avoids forcing those users with 9600 kbps modems who may not want to view the content from having to suffer through …… Alright, why do they make us download the content?

      • #3190056

        Some companies block downloads

        by klempan ·

        In reply to Stop the downloads!!!

        It takes special blessings to bypass the download restriction on our network. I’m finding it more valuable to read these comments than to actually bother with the downloads.

      • #2755239

        Yes. Stop the download thing.

        by pymendoza ·

        In reply to Stop the downloads!!!

        Please.

        • #2826113

          Oh My Gosh – YES YES YES

          by radams36 ·

          In reply to Yes. Stop the download thing.

          PLEEEEEASSSSEEE stop the necessity for downloading content like this. Not only is it extra steps (annoying), but if they are PDF’s, they frequently lock up my web browser. If I load them into Acrobat Reader directly, they work OK, but the browser plug-in is MUCH more brittle and problematic.
          Not only that, but the link to download this content is now broken, anyway.

    • #3184622

      Meaningless

      by bhunsinger ·

      In reply to DOWNLOAD: Seven warning signs that you should turn down a job offer

      Five of those listed should have been sorted out before applying for the job. Company finanials, missions statement, kind of work, if you can find it out before the job offer, you can find it out before the final interview. Same thing for the job description and the money. The bottom range that you give them is often the highest you will get. That they try to haggle does tell you something about the company, but what?
      Ditto on the download stuff.

      • #3188271

        Agree with sorting.

        by too old for it ·

        In reply to Meaningless

        Another one to avoid even sending a resume to is the ad that wants you to have intimate knowledge of 3 operating systems on 4 hardware platforms, 5 databases, 6 flavors of Linux, and 10 development platforms and 14/7/365 on call (no real job summary) for $30K a year.

        • #3188117

          Ah yes, the “jack of all trades” position

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to Agree with sorting.

          And believe me, they will find some desparate schmuck fresh out of college or some H1-B visa foreigner who stinks like curry to do this job. What really gets me is when they ask for knowledge of an O/S or product which is still in development and not even widely used. I recall how Windows Server 2003 was still in beta a few years back and already most job ads wanted experience in Windows 2003. What dumbass writes these job profiles? How can anyone be knowledgable in a product that is still in closed development and not even available to the public? I clearly explain to them that it is impossible to be experienced in a product which has yet to be released to the public. It’s like going to an interview and being asked if you are experienced in space teleportation technology. I say “what the F**K”?

        • #3193852

          ?

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Ah yes, the “jack of all trades” position

          I understand your concerns about the job market and the hiring process, but was the racist comment about curry really necessary?!

        • #3194692

          Racist Comments?

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to ?

          I bet you never worked with Indians who stink up the office with curry and the other ethnic crap they eat.

        • #3190900

          ??

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Racist Comments?

          That’s a bet that you would lose. The comment you made added no value to the discussion whatsoever. It’s only purpose was to spark an emotional reaction and belittle people that are different from you.

        • #3185985

          Go cry to your momma..pinko liberal pussy

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to ??

          don’t like the comment..too bad, because the world isn’t all nice and hunky dory

        • #3185872

          Response to Why Me Worry

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to ??

          I agree, the world isn’t all nice and hunky dory, however it’s people like you that make that statement true.

          I do find it interesting that because I’ve pointed out your shortcoming that you’ve concluded that I’m a liberal. In fact, it’s usually the liberals that resort to name calling when they can’t defend their argument, like you’ve done here.

        • #3185868

          Don’t waste your time, vltii

          by amcol ·

          In reply to ??

          The poster you’ve been responding to has been on this forum for a while under several different aliases. He is well known for contributing nothing other than vile nonsense. Don’t encourage him by responding.

      • #3176057

        Agree with sorting

        by clayton.barthel ·

        In reply to Meaningless

        I agree that some of the listed items were something you would have information on before it gets to the job offer. Some others are “common sense” as it were. Maybe help us with less-common signs (NDA’s and other contracts for programmers?).

        Also, why does everyone assume I’m looking to move into management? Every article I read completly ignores those who want to move up by gaining new skills (or specializing skills), and who would rather be mutilated by savage lemurs than to become a manager.

    • #3184509

      Check This

      by davidbeard2004 ·

      In reply to DOWNLOAD: Seven warning signs that you should turn down a job offer

      I?m in a situation where I was offered a position leading a team, on the outside it seems like a great opportunity. The only thing that trouble me is that the offer was verbal and I have not received a written offer.

      • #3184501

        Who Cares about downloads

        by rvj ·

        In reply to Check This

        Who cares if you have to download a small file, this is not the issue here. The issue is to accept a job or not to accept a job. If you have been unemployed for a long time, take the job if it is offered to you. Some form of income is better than no form of income – especially if you are not collecting unemployment. I have heard that it is easier to find a job when you have one than if you don’t. If you find out the job is not for you – suck it up for now and look for employment elsewhere.

        • #3193846

          Bravo

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Who Cares about downloads

          Some manage their money well and have set aside a sufficient amount of savings to carry them for a while in the event they become unemployed. These people can afford to be choosy. Even so I still think that anything is better than nothing. The little income will at a minimum prevent them from having to dip too heavily into their savings which may be needed for another emergency.

      • #3184496

        Flee!!!

        by big_fella ·

        In reply to Check This

        If they won’t send you a letter you have no “contract”. My advice is “no letter/no accept”.

        • #3188270

          Watch the poorly written contract

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to Flee!!!

          I had one of those. Was let go after a year because the owner wanted me to join his church as a condition of “continued trust”. (This was non a church entity, FWIW.)

          The Chairman of the board (a philosophy professor, and the owner’s father) felt that this was proper employer-employee HR handling.

          Go figure.

        • #3188116

          I would have sued the crap out of them

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to Watch the poorly written contract

          What they did was in clear violation of labor laws and is outright illegal. This is no different that the discussion about the corporate execs who were sending out religious e-mails to the entire company. Unless this was some kind of religious non-profit organization in which it was required for you to be a parish member, they had no right to force their religious beliefs upon you. God damned evangelical morons at work again.

        • #3188954

          I would have except …

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to I would have sued the crap out of them

          Ten days before I was fired I had a cardiac cath exam. Why, you ask? Because the previous cardiac stress test (gotta love the incline treadmill when attached to all that machinery) indicated that I was an overdue heart attack waiting to happen.

          The cardiac cath exam showed no blockages, and no reason for all the stress test results.

          However, less than a month after being fired, my stress test was normal. In fact, it was so normal, I took it again. I hadn’t been that “normal” in 4 years. Now some management types on here would tell me that this was my entire fault because I’m so negative, but neither I nor my doctor is buying it.

          Shortly thereafter, I had won the unemployment compensation “you were fired for cause” fight (exhibit A, stress test), declared victory and moved on.

          Afterword: Wasn’t an evangelical. Was, however, a member of the Roman Catholic Church, a representative of the Holy See, the One True Christian Church.

          And my dad wonders why I have taken up native worship with my Cherokee and Ojibwa brothers…

        • #3193837

          Sounds like…

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Watch the poorly written contract

          this is something that has legal implications. No employer has any right to force their religious beliefs on you or take any actions against you because of your beliefs (or lack of).

        • #3185723

          there was, but

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to Sounds like…

          … working for him was also ruining my health.

        • #3195554

          Been there, too

          by it mgr/packer fan ·

          In reply to there was, but

          My entire IT org just got outsourced- they forcibly retired the CIO, who was the problem, horrible leader, fired two of the three IT managers, and kept the last one- me– to work with the outsourcing company. They assured me I was safe– foolish of me to believe them, but I did, for a time- by the time I started looking for another job, the outsourcing company had used me to keep the employees happy, and once the permanent staff was hired, my “position was eliminated” was the topic of my last meeting there. And you know what, “too old?” You are not too old- you were the victim of lousy management, as was I- and I know what you mean about harming your health- I have been off about four months, and feel better than I have in the four years I was working there– too much stress, long hours, little reward– it would be great to find out in advance, what a place is like, to work for. Best of luck to you– I have an interview next week, have been second choice on two past interview strings, hope to be the “bride” this time!

        • #3185919

          Health? What Health?

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to Been there, too

          I’ve been working for law firms and contracting pretty much ever since. Looking to start my own non-IT business tho.

        • #3188115

          Interesting experience I had with technical recruiter

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to Flee!!!

          To make a long story short, this headhunter calls me up with a position he claims is a “permanent” position for a very prominent NYC based media outlet. Anyhow, I look over the job profile and am interested in it, so I tell the guy to forward my resume to them. In a few minutes, he sends me via email some non-compete and non-disclosure contract to sign. Anyhow, I’m not stupid and I wasn’t born yesterday, so I read the contract which only applies if you are a subcontractor employed by their firm. I quickly pointed out to the headhunter that he advertised this position as a “permanent” position on the media outlet’s payroll and I cannot be expected to sign a non-compete and non-disclosure contract identifying me as a “consultant” or “contractor” of their recriuting firm. Folks, unless you are taking on a consulting job which may require that you be legally bound, please read any contracts before signing them. This guy must have thought I was some stupid idiot fresh out of college and would simply sign it without hesitation. I told him that I needed to consult with my attorney, which I really didn’t have to because I clearly understood the terms of the contract, but his demeanor changed when he realized he was dealing with a very smart individual. Dealing with many crooked people in my career, one thing we all know is to “read the fine print” and to understand what you are getting yourself into before you sign something. I cannot stress that point enough. Anyhow, he checked with his superiors and did realize that the contract he sent me makes no sense for non-contract employment. I’ve had a phone interview with the media outlet and am awaiting for a response for an in person interview. Wish me luck.

    • #3190127

      Worst hiring experience

      by jpatankar ·

      In reply to DOWNLOAD: Seven warning signs that you should turn down a job offer

      The worst experience I had was in 2003 when I was hired as a professional trainer by http://www.excom.com.au and was assured at the interview stage of a work visa sonsorship which was madatory in my case being an non-Ozy national.
      However, after signing up and joining the company despite repeated reminders about effecting the work visa sponsorship transfer no action was taken.

      The worst happened when I was paid a salary directly into my account in a fortnight of joining.

      This caused a breach of the existing work visa which I was holding. Long story short I lost the job, visa, time, money and energy.

      Never believe your manager!!

    • #3188664

      Another Thing to Watch

      by alhujazi ·

      In reply to DOWNLOAD: Seven warning signs that you should turn down a job offer

      I was offered a job and the bottom side of the salary range I indicated. The thing that made me lose all interest in their offer was the senior manager’s remark that the company was looking to be sold. Oh, that’s a stable working environment that I would be interested in. Make sure you check out the company and ask about their plans for the short term future.

    • #3188623

      Fell victim of most of these issues myself!!

      by jwestern ·

      In reply to DOWNLOAD: Seven warning signs that you should turn down a job offer

      In my current position, I was sent a letter outlining most of our conversation. The things that were left out was believed to be company policy. Things left out were, education reimbursement, what defines “above the call of duty” and the development opportunities that I could open for myself. Well here I am he wont let me take the position anywhere, I have no education reimbursement and Im always told that I was paid more up front so a raise should not be concievable. Great position. Anyone need a good developer with little experience but great education. Thats all I am now. Watch out there all you suckers!@!@@!!!

    • #3188444

      Use Common Sense

      by graphicsguy ·

      In reply to DOWNLOAD: Seven warning signs that you should turn down a job offer

      Most of the seven points are common sense. Technically-oriented people must be as smart with their career development and professional interaction as they are with technology. Research the company you are interested in and research the hiring manager. Have an accurate and professional resume. Know what position you want or what you want to learn. Be clear (in both intention and language), be positive & respectful, and be brief in conversation.

    • #3188443

      No more downloads!

      by graphicsguy ·

      In reply to DOWNLOAD: Seven warning signs that you should turn down a job offer

      What is with the downloads? Hey TR – do a simple blog post.

      • #3188380

        I agree! Reduce the # of Downloads

        by the dalles dweller ·

        In reply to No more downloads!

        Why does every little article have to be an Adobe download? Some articles look interesting, but when I have to download a pdf to read about the 10 reasons your mouse has a tail, its just not worth the bother!

    • #3188221

      Good article.

      by mrafrohead ·

      In reply to DOWNLOAD: Seven warning signs that you should turn down a job offer

      Considering I’m currently (actually been looking for damn near a freaking YEAR!!!!) in the job market,
      any tip helps…

      Though I do have to say, those darn downloads… I usually won’t do them and would rather pass them up instead of going through what a click of the link could just “open”…

      But this particular one was rather appealing to me so it made it “worth” it…

      Good reading, again, thank you!

      • #3189729

        Tip for Job Seeker

        by ooofence ·

        In reply to Good article.

        Without knowing your full “situation” (expereince, what skill sets you have, etc.) it would be difficult to give you specific tips in your job search. One generic tip I can give you is that if you are using jobs boards in your search, do not use the link to send your resume to a particular company. If you identify a position you believe you are qualified for, call the company’s HR dept and talk to someone about the position then if you still feel you are qualified for the position, ask them for a specific email address to send your resume. This will give you a much better opportunity to have your resume seen by a representative of the company as opposed to the “black hole” where resumes often wind up through website submittal.

        • #3193811

          Even Better

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Tip for Job Seeker

          See if you can find out who the hiring manager is and contact this person directly. In general you want to avoid HR until a job offer has been made (unless of course you’re looking for a job in HR). I can’t think of any reason they would want to keep the hiring managers identification secret.

        • #3190786

          Thank you

          by mrafrohead ·

          In reply to Tip for Job Seeker

          Thank you very much for that. That makes an awful lot of sense, and I will try it with the next set of jobs that I see posted…

    • #3190415

      Good Work if you can Get it

      by flyerdad ·

      In reply to DOWNLOAD: Seven warning signs that you should turn down a job offer

      Tempting to take the first offer? Mandatory is closer to reality. Its been my experience of late that offers of positions don’t seem to come along every other day. I suspect that my 30 years of experience scares some possible employers away, considering that the hiring manager probably has less than 10 in most cases.

      So how about some REAL AND USEFUL information on how to get that first interview? I’ve been under employed and doing contract work for 5 years. I send out resume’s every day, make phone calls every week and have yet to get an interview for anything that isn’t temporary. That description of a 30K per year job on 24/7 call in a one man IT shop sounds like heaven to me right now. I am a professional, and I’m damn good at what I do, but that doesn’t seem to keep the mortgage paid.

      • #3189717

        Real and Useful Info

        by ooofence ·

        In reply to Good Work if you can Get it

        Flyerdad, you must be realistic in your opportunities. You mention that you have been doing contract work for five years and that you have 30 years of experience. Simple math would say that you are in your late 40’s early 50’s. I mention this because a potential employer will look at your resume, see that you have entered the “contract world” and they will be hesitant to offer you a full time position because they will ask themselves…. How committed you are to a full time position? How long would you work until you decide to retire? And they will also ask themselves can they afford you. Additionally, sending your resume out everyday to X number of companies is not a strong strategy for finding a position. If your resume is being seen by many different companies it is actually a negative as opposed to you finding a few companies you really would like to work for and specifically targeting those companies to send your resume to. As I mentioned in another post, call the company first, talk to a human resources person at the company and get a specific person to send your resume to. This will make a lot more hay as opposed to just sending your resume all over the “street”. I hope this helps.

        • #3195548

          Good advice- I found this, myself

          by it mgr/packer fan ·

          In reply to Real and Useful Info

          I am in my late forties, and looking for a job, and found that taking dates off the resume, for graduation year from college, things like that, helped me- and calling the company got me an interview, for next week, where blanket applying to websites has won me nothing. Helps to have the name of an employee to mention, that they suggested that you call HR, about a position. Hardest thing is getting a job in an area you haven’t lived in long– fewer networking contacts. I live in Green Bay, Wisconsin, and it is not easy to get an IT job here, unless you know someone. Good luck!

    • #2516503

      Good Article

      by sjames_kutty ·

      In reply to DOWNLOAD: Seven warning signs that you should turn down a job offer

      Hopefully this is a good article

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