Evil Plans- Help Shell plan the perfect party!

I don't really think that I'm always right. however, if I AM right, I will defend it and, if I'm being honest, I'll run it into the ground. But if I'm wrong, I can actually say that I'm wrong without too much discomfort.

]:)

cause I'm not pulling yer foot from yer mouth for ya. ]:)

Trying to squeeze in some fun on the discussion between clients, sometimes leaves me typing faster than the brain functions. Always juggling - I'm sure you know how that is. I have appreciated your candid and heartfelt responses in this post. You and Mae and JLupo have had much insight and I really appreciate your hearts! I have been sitting here tearing as I seen in the windows of each of your lives and caught a glimpse of what everyone has had to work through - I'm such a cry baby anyway. But what women you all are! Wow. Your stories inspire me.

And if Shell's daughter inherited even just half of the intelligence, understanding, and wit that Shell obviously has, I believe that she will mature right out of this "settling" for the likes of the bf she's so goo-goo eyes over now. If she can just make it through these unsure, finding-herself years unscathed...

As for the party, I don't have any other suggestions to add but my best wishes for Shell...and for you all. I'm very happy that I found this discussion and was able to share a little bit of your stories. They have really moved me and encouraged me during a pretty tough week of my own.

A resounding THANK YOU to you all for such wonderful hearts!

Oh, and you can call me anything you want. I shed "Van" when I was a little girl...too masculine a nickname for a little girl trying to be a little girl, but I don't mind it so much now. Especially when JD uses it - that feels really sweet. Thanks for asking GG.
Keep it up!

Edited because I just realized I had STILL typed in Mae's name when I meant Shell. What a [b] [i] dufus [/b] [/i] I can be :D . Again, sincerest apologies to you both.

As you go more deaf, the volume of your normal speech increases.

My hearing is 75% of Normal, currently. My father was deaf at 55. I am atleast 20 years behind him. It is nerve degeneration, so no solutions currently exist.

He is now active in music. My kids were able to get a head start in life because we homeschool. If you start college at 16, you really have a jump on life.

He is a great kid, and will be ready and willing the minute the right woman comes along. Heck my wife and I were engaged within 48 hours of meeting. We've been married 23 1/2 years. My daughter hasn't started dating yet, she is 21.

He is going to be a Chiropractor and for fun he will gig on trombone, piano, Bass and guitar at nights. He loves music. He can sing and play...

I guess that I am just so proud of him. When I hear complaints like what you have given in the past I can't keep my mouth shut... Not all men are abusive, and some of us would fight to keep others from being abused or oppressed. My kids were/are homeschooled and are predominately the product of my wife. I may read to the boys avery night, but my wife and I work hard to form their character.

Even my 9 year old stands up to 13-14 year olds that have been abusive to themselves or others. They only learn that from good example.

I have identical twin uncles. One was born with nerve degenerative hearing and has hearing aids, but is deaf. He lip reads so well that people didn't know he was deaf for a long time. Today you can tell by his speech.

He won't learn sign language though, which is frustrating because he really doesn't hear anymore even with the hearing aids.

...and feeling pretty low this week anyway - as well as busy - and not able to post much.

I love your ideas for the party. It's going to be great. I know Shell'll do fine. You can see how much she really loves her daughter.

You're right on track with the whole self-esteem thing. I think you put it better than I did in my response to jd. It really is an issue of self-esteem. Why is that? GG had some good insights as well. It was always just one thing that really got to me...a pet peeve of mine...you know?

You see these wonderful women, young and old, think so little of themselves and settle for relationships, jobs, treatment that are obviously below them, when they are worth so much more than that.

Soapbox alert...(move over GG) Don't women have to suffer through enough pain and misery on a regular basis in their lives, overcome so many more obstacles that come easy for most men (in themselves, in their home and in the world)? And women have to learn to attain control over themselves in a way that a man rarely does (PMS is as much a b**ch for us as for them - we can't walk away from it). Yet so many women never learn that they are overcomers. Strong. And have a beauty that is both steel-hard and fluid. And that they can become anything they want to be...that they are needed more than needy.

That's all. As you say, it's a matter of self-esteem...and a question of why so many women end up living without it for so long?

Just a pet peeve. Thank you for posting.

Edited to add: I know this sounds really "Pro-women" and all, but hoping it counteracts so much of the other that I find in the world. Oh, and I know I mentioned Mae instead of Shell before. I apologize to both of you...half a bubble off plumb lately. ?:|

didn't have those kinds of role models. I am not saying they aren't out there. Oh and I was teasing to some degree in my other post about Where are they? :) Just so you know.

I actually did have one really good relationship that is the one that taught me to let go of my past and try and trust again. It didn't work out for a lot of reasons, but not because he was abusive or bad or anything else like that. It just wasn't meant to be.

I am very picky cause I want a partner in life. If I can't have that then I rather rely on myself without someone else. My friends are good friends, my best friend is a guy. We tease each other cause if he gets married, I would be his best "man" and he would be my "maid" of honor. :D That is how close we are.

So, all I can say is I wish there were more TJ's and OG's, and MAE's, and TT's, and Onbliss' in the world. I wish there were a lot more people who were the real parents that raised real good kids into adults, both boys and girls. There aren't enough.

Seriously, my one true ex- the one that was worth a lot to me, I used to spoil horribly and he did me too in a lot of ways. I used to cook him home made meals (well until he insisted on doing all the cooking). I used to have little surprises waiting for him at his job, he sent me flowers once to my place of work.

Once, he kidnapped me for a weekend retreat to one of my favorite mountain getaways. He hates the cold, but I love it. I returned the favor for his B-day with a trip to Paradise Isle. See that is the type of relationship. Oh those are just the good things, we had our fights and moments, but it came down to respecting each other and really caring.

We just weren't meant to be together and it took us 10 years to find that out.

He is the perfect mate- intellegent, witty, loving. We have had differences, but nothing that we couln't work through. I don't know that I have ever been so comfortable with another person in my life.

And any man willing to walk over 600 miles to support my training for something that I think is important is obviously a superior being. I love him, it works.

I do often wonder how in the world I got so lucky...

As I understand, daughter doesn't come near this place and boyfriend is a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic. Don't (by description, anyway) think he can SPELL computer.

But good point. Hoping that ID and no name use will help towards keeping this anonymous...

All the good ones are taken or gay. If not, they somehow get snatched up by somebody and their just aren't enough to go around. Oh well, someday I will just bump into my partner to be. It will be magic and just happen - poof.

the best way to catch up on a discussion because you don't have the five minute complete reload everytime you have to hit "next".

Jaq, respectable.... I think Bugs said it best when he said "he don't know me vewy well, do he?" :D Not that there is anything unrespectable about anything he does, it just was funny and fit. Everyone here knows all abuse is mutually agreed on before hand, and is only what the recipiant is "up to".

it appears that only people of an "alternative life style" listen to show-tunes and Judy Garland.

Light in the loafers.....

For some reason the ever cruel members of the TR Gang had thrown me under the wheels of that truck.... :(

I like girls, really! :D

there are always exceptions to the case. Not every guy meets someone like you. :x

I already admitted I am only right when I agree with you, so what more can a guy do? ;\

it is just so damn frustrating to see people that I really care about that would rather stay with someone that treats them like crap. The Cute Geek was in that boat, but now that she is getting transfered to Florida, it was all for nothing. :( So she will take abusive husband with her and off she goes.

Not the only example.

NOTE, one of the ways we get rid of old toys is to drop them off to the local womans shelter.

I know what you are saying, but I can't understand someone STAYING when many times there are ways out.

The fact that you are willing to agree with me on everything is one of your more attractive traits. :)

Although, I'd STILL talk to you even if we disagree. And even though you're a Republican. Which, by the way..you always talk about how mean and terrible we Democrats are..you know, with the name calling? didn't I just see a post where you refer to Democrats and Demoncrats? Yes, I believe I did..

See? We can disagree and still be friends. :)

that you were a meat lover....... :0

:x

What does that imply (out of interest)?

Well, each to their own jd.

Did the truck have a trailer containg a fully blown 80's nightclub. Mirrors and all?

(think Mike Myers!)

B-)

:x

GG

He'th protethting too much again!!

;)

GG

I see an interesting progress here in that the main branch is devoted to promoting a party, the side branch is exploring the darker side of realtationships gone bad.
One side, young relationships and all that they promise, the other side, what happens later in some of them.
I have nothing deeper to expound on past that, just that with my own kids, I sure wish there was some way to keep them safe from the F-ups and abuser trash out there.

Some, not all of it is inherent.

I have four sisters. Each one of us has a different persona. We all came from the same foundations.

My sisters have done the bad relationship thing, as have I. We each handled it differently at the time but with the same general outcome. Abuseboy went away.

You watch out for your younger daughter. She is likely to be just like her sister in terms of her self esteem- just quieter. This can be deceptive. She will take out many knee caps as she is perceived as meek... but isn't.

Its the abusers that hide their true colors that have me concerned.
I would say that the majority of ladies that I know who have survived abusive relationships usually stated that they had no idea the guy was such a jerk until later in the relationship, marriage, kids. In the beginning, he was Prince Charming, Thoughtfull, Caring, Devoted.
I do know that my if daughters ever need to come home because things went bad, my doors will be open to them.
My mother was able to make it on her own when she got her divorce, but was dissaproved by her family for decades for not sticking with a bad marriage.
My second wife's first marriage((I was her scond husband)) went bad and her parents told her that she had to suck it up and deal with it since divorce was against their beliefs. With three kids, she was economically dependant on her first husband and it was only after the stack of abuse reports got to be a couple inches thick that her dad finally let her move back home with the kids until she could get her divorce and back on her feet. And of course, it took several years for her colors to show during our marriage, but thats another thread.
What can I say, my oldest daughter is turning 13 soon. I'm nervouse has hell, why can't I send her off to live with the Nuns for five years?

You can educate her, but do so carefully. Make sure she knows she has you to go to no matter what. Those are all things that will help. Keep her self-esteem high.

BTW: I think someone on TR mentioned a shotgun handy when they meet the bf's. :) Seriously though, if she starts to get serious with someone (when the time comes), then you have to make sure THEY know how you will react if they hurt your little girl. Make sure they realize the special relationship that exists with your daughter. Make sure that if that relationship is jeopordized you want stop until you know EXACTLY why that happened.

Dad's (at least the good one's in my opinion) have the right to be overprotective of their little girls. At the same time you want to make sure she realizes that you know she can take care of herself, you are just there as extra support if she needs it. :)

Keep your eyes and ears open. Keep a good relationship with your daughter. That is all you can really do.

that there is anything WRONG with that. :)

I've always been a meat eater myself....

GG

(Sorry, Mae, the "tease jd" opening was right there in front of me, and I just couldn't resist.

Ok, didn't even try to resist, then!!)

Should have considered that...

How's it going? Boys doing good?

When the are considered old enough to date, there will be NO dates until the young man has come over and introduced himself.

The guys sniffing around for the quickies and one-nighters won't generally deal with that kind of hassle, so they get weeded out early.

I am SOOOO glad I didn't have girls. I am trying to raise my boys to be respectful enough that THEY won't be the ones the rest of you have to worry about. (too much at least) You don't hit a woman unless it is in self-defense.

My EX-sister-in-law at the ripe old age of 27 has two kids, custody of one. She has been married four times, with several live-in boyfriends in between. Everyone was called "daddy" by the little girl that she has from hubby #2. Hubby #1 got custody of first boy because she was worthless.

Over half of her relationships have ended with her being abused. Some I could see it coming because the guys are losers, the other half were a total surprise because they were nice guys, some I had known for over a decade. What was the common denominator of the abuse? Hmmm, her? I believe that some females (sorry, can't all her a woman) drive weaker willed people to resort that way, and SHE is one of those people. I do not condone the beating of her, but how many of the fights did she start, and even throw the first blow?

Completely takes away the "poor battered wife" sympathy and she should be the one in jail for assult.

boys are doing very well, and having a good time. I had to ground Thing One yesterday because he hit a 47 out golfing with grandma. (I average between 46 and 52 depending on the day) I also had to tell him I am taking BACK my Taylormade driver, because he is hitting a good 200 yards with it. (not bad for a 14 year old! :D )

Thing two hasn't gone as many times this year, so his game is suffering, but he is a happy camper if he gets his chat time in on his "Myspace". Yes, he knows I monitor it.

Thing one is looking at spending the weekend up north with a friend, so a good one-on-one bonding time with Thing two! Should be fun.

So how many pairs of socks have you worn out already? ;\

I counted five or six pair that need to hit the bin- I go through 6 pair a week and so does my partner. Add to it the socks he wears to work and I wash a LOT of socks. Along with frequent washing and wearing, the Body Glide we use on our feet to prevent blisters attacts dirt like you wouldn't believe.

Just found the PERFECT sock- two layers with the dry wick and arch support I like. The dual layers help to prevent blisters. The downside is that they run $8 a pair and I need 6 pair for the event. AAARRRGGGGHHHH!

Doing the "litmus test" walk tomorrow and Sunday- 18 miles/15 miles. Assuming I make it, I will post Sunday and let y'all know how it goes. We're walking with the team so it won't be too bad- we all drag each other through.

Good to hear that you will get some time with Thing Two this weekend. Just me and I am a VERY far away observer but I worry about him. Seems like he's withdrawing some. Having some personal time with Dad will help, I think.

And you can't ground your kid because you are in danger of being beaten by him. The day will come when you realise that he has surpassed you. As it should be.

Sure, the woman you refer to is the common demonimator. But that doesn't mean she should be charged with assault and the men should not. I hope you were joking.

I have a lot of sympathy Zidane - he was taunted, his mother was insulted, he'd been held (opponent deserved but didn't get a yellow card) but that doesn't mean he had the right to headbutt.

Sure some women can bring out the worst in men. There is NEVER an excuse to hit. I think its more likely that the woman had low self esteem and subconsciously was drawn to men that hit.

James

If SHE started a fist fight, she should go to jail for assult.

If she was just the beotch that I know she is and that got on his nerves, then no, he is the one that goes to jail.

The one to start the swinging, regardless of sex, is the one that should do the time.

I do beleive that there are women and men who bring out the worst in others and even instigate violence. I've seen all types working in Mental Health. Yes, the easy answer is for the guy to leave, walk away. That is saying that now, at a computer desk, with nothing actually happening.
Not sure how I would react in real life with it happening in my face.
And here is the thing, I have seen women be the agressors and take the first hit, swing, stab and it's still the guy who gets taken away.
I worked with a guy who was in trouble and mandatory therapy for pushing his wife out a screen door. Rest of the story, she was throwing glasses at him and glass was flying around the kitchen. As long as he was the target, he was okay, been once a glass and its pieces went into the babies bassinent, he pushed, shoved, manhandled her out the door, locked it and called the police. He was the one arrested. I am not agreeing or condoning what he did, but I can understand how in the heat of things he may have felt he was doing the right thing to protect his daughter from her crazy mother who was not concerned with her safety at the time.
I knew a dependant wife who bragged that she set up her boyfriend to be in bed with her when her active duty husband, "unexpectedly," came home. After the fight, she had the base housing quarters to herself for a year, old boyfriend was out of the picture and new boyfriends,2,3,4,5 and 6 had run of the place. Husband was restricted to living in the barraks until the divorce went through.
So yes, somepeople bring it on themselves, and yes the other half should leave, walk away, not defend themselves cause that can even be construed as an act of aggression, but when it is happening, blood pressure is through the roof, tempers are flying and it's the last straw of one long trail of having your head F@cked with welll... I'm just saying I can understand how it happens sometimes.

Edited for a doublestandard:
Yeah, I just realized that I am a sexist pig. If the woman starts the agression, I am saying that I believe the man should walk, run away. If the guy is the abuser, and the women has the ability to beat the h@ll out of the guy, then I'll be the first to hand her the bat to do it with.
Yes, a blatant double standard, but I realize I have it and will seek help...,

I worked for almost 5 years at a ghetto ministry for children in BedStuy, NY. Saw a lot: 4-year-old kids made too "high" by their moms to be able to stand up; men shot and killed right in front of me; watched one man beat another man's head in with a pipe up against the bumper of a car, etc.

But I saw a man beating a woman to death on the street corner in front of the house where I stayed. There was only myself and another man that worked as a bus and truck mechanic (big,strong guy) named Bob. When we came around the corner we saw this guy who had this woman on the ground beating her, literally, to death. Bob told me to call the cops and ran over and pulled the guy off of her. At which point the woman made it to her feet and started beating on Bob, hitting him in the face, etc. And I mean she was all bloody and I could swear only half-alive. That was weird...and I will never forget it. When the police got there, at first, they wanted to arrest Bob for the injuries of both of them. So I guess my point is that I agree that you never really know...and while violence, even in small incidents, is a poor way for anyone to act, women as well as men must be held responsible for their actions, when those actions hurt others, like in your story.

He has been having a harder time of it, but I really do believe that a lot of it is from his female-parental-unit treating them differently, and he gets the short end of the stick. Maybe it is because he has ALWAYS been closer to me than her while Thing One has always been pretty even. I don't know, but I do believe it is happening and not just imagined.

As I stated elsewhere, he has already told his mother last week that he wants to live with me full time, and see her on alternate weekends instead of alternate weeks.

All she told him was "not right now". If she really is knocked up like I suspect she is, I can see her allowing this as she will have enough to worry about. I noticed when I picked the boys up last Sunday that when she walked where I could see her, she purposely kept her arm in front of her stomack. Not the way she walks, EVER. When you know someone and pay attention, you can see when there is a change. (had to laugh to myself about the cold sore too! Glad I am not sharing a bed with that anymore! ) B-)

So for activites, a nice dinner, the arcade, maybe even canoeing. Things he likes to do. Oh, I know. There is a japanise steak house that he has wanted to go to! Then maybe see Superman.

Thing one just left to go up north.

Good thing I just fixed the second computer last night, so we can play the games together at night! I hop on the older of the two (and still beat them! :D )

I need to think of something we can do that will give us a chance to do some real talking about whatever might be bothering him. Maybe taking the dog out for a few nice walks.

is a nasty creature.

Further clerification, while I think anyone has a right to defend themselves from anyone, that does not include going on the offensive and beating anyone.

Winged one, I personally fully condone they way your friend handled the situation, and he should have gotten a laywer and sued the city. Sounds like he displayed uncommon control over himself, and if throwing her out of the house was truely the worst he did, the guy should have gotten sainthood or something. If someone, ANYONE, became a direct threat to my kids, I can't say I would have been as controlled. There is nothing more important to me.

But I would NEVER say it is ok to "beat up" a woman.

You are dead on, JD. You aren't imagining a thing.

When a kid who used to be pretty centred starts doing the chat room/game thing to the exclusion of other things, there is something going on.

I've never asked and you don't have to answer- or answer via peer mail if you prefer, but are you paying child support to her? If the answer to that question is yes, that may be the reason she is unwilling to consider allowing Thing2 to change his living situation. But at 14, he should be able to request modification of order himself. I know he could here, I don't know MI as well.

Having "special time" will help more than you can imagine. Walking the dog is a good activity for discussion. But you're right- some kind of activity is necessary. He'll need to have something else he can focus on if he is having problems dealing with his feelings.

If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know. I know that this has been hard on the poor guy and he is trying to manage very adult feelings for such a young man.

I know that at the time you were divorced, you thought the world was coming to an end. In retrospect, aren't you glad that things went as they did? You wouldn't have her back on a bet but now you have had an opportunity to see her in a different light you are likely seeing elements of her personality that don't mesh with yours. I truly hope that she isn't pregnant, for the sake of the child. It would be very difficult on both the boys to have her attention so diverted. And she doesn't sound like she is any too stable.

Incidentally- I know you know this and all- don't be surprised if once he starts talking, he can't shut down. Having held it in for awhile, he may have a LOT to say.

What I learned about in law class about self defense, and what I learned in martial arts, amazingly similar.

If you are assualted, you are permitted to defend yourself of course. You can escalate, if you have reason to be in fear of your safety. You can't pull out a gun and shoot them because they slap you. If they say they are going to kill you, have a weapon in their hand, or have been known to seriously injure you or others, you can use deadly force.

If it came to court, you would have to convince a "reasonable man" that you had a legitimate reason to fear (US/UK/Canada use common law, and share precedents so it is likely similar).

The point is, that if that woman you know is not strong enough, used an open hand, etc., it would not stand up in court if a man hit her back in self defense, and took it over the line. If on the other hand, the man is a 98 lbs weakling and the woman a pro bodybuilder.....

James

Thank you for the feedback, I was starting to wonder if I was going over the top for a moment.
My pre IT career: I joined the millitary. I was trained as a Hospital Corpsman,-The Navy version of an Army Medic- then how to drive a fork lift, then further trained as a Psychiatric Technician. I worked primarily in Mental Health with on-call to the E.R. for 15 years, 5 of which were regullarly -pre Ativan days- getting the H@ll beat out of me on the Acute psych ward, the rest in Crisis Intervention or Outpatient clinic. By nature, my patients were active duty, foriegn millitary, dependants and retirees. No civilians. Most violence that I have been exposed to in action was on the Acute Psych ward. It was when I was in outpatient that I was involved with the victims in group and after care. Don't get me started on my fellow staff.
I can honestly say Vanessa that your experiences with gunshots, killings, and guys smashing heads are not something had much contact with as an adult. The Psych patients only had access to makeshift weapons and my time in the E.R., outpatient was only dealing with the trauma after it had been inflicted.
So WOW, If I'm known for drinking a few or 12 beers now, I can not imagine what it would be like being exposed to what you saw so much of.
JD, the mindset while I was on Active Duty by the powers that be, was what I had mentioned earlier. A husband's, boyfriend's, guys only acceptable recourse was to leave the situation. Even defending themselves, guys eneded up with flagged orders, mandatory therapy, and threats of consequences. It was very frustrating at times for them and for us who had to sit in group with them.

ok,it just turned out to be too much to plan on such short notice..

so, i think i am going to plan this a couple weeks in advance.

thanks for all the great ideas..i'll keep you up to date on when its going to go ahead and how it all works out!!