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  • #2250531

    Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

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    by dr dij ·

    Oct 9th article in Computerworld outlines Gartner’s attitude to old people in IT: we don’t know s**t about IT and apparently we need twenty-something whippersnappers to tell us about new technologies, while we drive our old fuddy ‘sedans’ and see to our ‘mid life crises’ or our companies will go belly up.

    Wow! I’m sure those whippersnappers will be doing us all a favor by replacing our mainframes with a trillion records with windows systems where individual files have a 2 gig size limit. Who cares about SSN records or the corporate data store when you can IM each other all day?

    Seems they have ‘culture’ which will save us all! Balding baby-hating Jean Luc needs to be replaced with alien-womanizing Captn Kirk (or the 20 year old equivalent 🙂

    With twenty seconds left, I guess we all WILL die.

    http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9004001

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    • #3279979

      I knew I was too old for IT

      by too old for it ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I knew I was too old for IT back in the 90’s when I was 40-something, and kept getting bypassed for IT gigs by 20-something hot shots with spikey hair and an all-black wardrobe.

      Should have gone on to law school then, so I could have laughed in thier face when the dot-com era ended and t hey were looking for someone to sue instead of in the mirror.

      Or a coffee shop, I dunno which aoule have been more fun.

      • #3279833

        Spikey hair and all black wardrobe? Sound like the nuts from Columbine

        by why me worry? ·

        In reply to I knew I was too old for IT

        who shot up the school and then killed themselves

        if I was the hiring manager, I would think twice about hiring anyone with spikey hair and a black suit

        • #3221299

          They’re…

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to Spikey hair and all black wardrobe? Sound like the nuts from Columbine

          every where. Diamler is starting to look like a convention center for ‘freeky undertakers’

        • #3220532

          Wow!! Get a Life

          by watchfires ·

          In reply to They’re…

          Well the kids at Columbine definately do not have anything to do with Kids with “spikey hair.” This is probably coming from 60’s gen, who, with the exception of those brave enough (the Vietnam Vets), dodged the draft and ended up parenting the Columbine gen. So if we are going to look at this gen today, we have to look at all of those with “Spikey hair” like myself who did not dodge the draft and decided to fight when my country needed me. Yes my parents rebelled in the 60’s but they had to answer to the greatest generation of men alive, the WWII vets. If you graduated from high school at a time where the war was going on and you did not have the balls to fight for your country then YOU ARE THE REASON we have the Columbine generation, because those types of kids where raised by parents who lacked the testicular fortitude to parent there kids the right way, instead you were to busy trying to be cool parents. So next time you see a spikey hair kid remember that kid probably did more than i ever did for my own freedom.

        • #3220500

          ?:| how is that now?

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to Wow!! Get a Life

          You definatly got me confused.

        • #3222357

          Specious bull***

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Wow!! Get a Life

          I’m assuming that you think there’s a logical argument somewhere in that rant; but, I’ll be damned if I can find it.

          For the sake of all here gathered, please explain how it is that the sins of the children are owing to the political beliefs of a certain sub-set of elders only.

        • #3222311

          Re: Wow!! Get a Life

          by grolan ·

          In reply to Wow!! Get a Life

          “If you graduated from high school at a time where the war was going on and you did not have the balls to fight for your country then YOU ARE THE REASON we have the Columbine generation’

          So I guess you’re talking about Bush, Cheney & co., who used their connections to duck service – and then went on to launch a war of aggression against a toothless country that was no threat to us, and have been busy sending other people’s sons and daughters into the meat grinder without adequate armor or the most basic equipment? Yeah, you’re right, they are complete @-holes, aren’t they?

          But that doesn’t have anything to do with me or anyone else I know who came of age in the 60’s/70’s, and it certainly doesn’t have anything to do with IT, so shut yer yap.

        • #3222256

          For a [b]Student[/b], with a [b]empty Profile[/b], you’re quite good at …

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Wow!! Get a Life

          pissing people off the very 1st time that you open your mouth.

          Is that a product of your vast worldly experiences?

        • #3222147

          Sandy you should know better!

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to For a [b]Student[/b], with a [b]empty Profile[/b], you’re quite good at …

          By replying to it’s postings you are only encouraging it to continue to post and continue to Piss People Off!

          Both of us already know that there is nothing that you can teach a student as they already know it all and they are only attending whatever school it is to Humor the [b]Teaching Staff[/b] as these poor people need the job that they have and require students to justify their positions.

          The entire posting was at best childish and shows a need to gain some Life Experience. 😀

          Col

        • #3222086

          I stand ready, willing & able to provide said Life Experience.

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Sandy you should know better!

          Though I doubt that he’s got the balls to re-present himself, I would gleefully welcome the opportunity to give him the spanking that he so badly needs.

          With Penn State’s football team struggling this season, he will do quite nicely as the punching bag that I sorely need.

        • #3220930

          [b]BAD BAD Sandy[/b] :^0

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Sandy you should know better!

          If he reappears he would most likely enjoy the spanking and any other form of punishment. :0

          Scary thought isn’t it?

          Col

        • #3220898

          Well, should he prove to be a masochist, being a true sadist, …

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Sandy you should know better!

          I’ll just have to refuse to punish him!

        • #3226255

          You skipped a generation

          by deletemystuff ·

          In reply to Wow!! Get a Life

          I graduated from high school and turned 18 the year the draft ended. I would have been in the draft the year AFTER I turned 18.

          My generation raised the generation who raised the spikey hair kids …they are the grandparents of the spike heads. I’m acutely aware of this, because I was too busy in my 20s scuba-diving and sky diving to raise a family. I had my first kid at age 39 and the second at 43.

          I’ve said many times that my generation raised a bunch of idiots, who turned around and raised another bunch of idiots, who are poised as we speak, to pull the flush lever while standing in the middle of the bowl!

          I know I’ll be flamed for this comment by all of the spike-heads who bother to look up from their wikis, blogs and social networks long enough to read this. But I suppose if they can insult my balding head and middle-aged belly, they must think they have tough enough hide to (or large enough intellects) to pick a fight.

          Game on…

          (Notice that the old fogey can imbed HTML in the post to make it a bit more readable …how ’bout that spike-heads?)

        • #3221013

          Thats…

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Spikey hair and all black wardrobe? Sound like the nuts from Columbine

          Clothest and Hairest – both forms of discrimination.

        • #3217936

          Discrimination

          by rflanagan9 ·

          In reply to Thats…

          By your comment you wouldn’t know what discrimination is if it bit you somewhere

        • #3220529

          Wow hippee

          by watchfires ·

          In reply to Spikey hair and all black wardrobe? Sound like the nuts from Columbine

          Well the kids at Columbine definately do not have anything to do with Kids with “spikey hair.” This is probably coming from 60’s gen, who, with the exception of those brave enough (the Vietnam Vets), dodged the draft and ended up parenting the Columbine gen. So if we are going to look at this gen today, we have to look at all of those with “Spikey hair” like myself who did not dodge the draft and decided to fight when my country needed me. Yes my parents rebelled in the 60’s but they had to answer to the greatest generation of men alive, the WWII vets. If you graduated from high school at a time where the war was going on and you did not have the balls to fight for your country then YOU ARE THE REASON we have the Columbine generation, because those types of kids where raised by parents who lacked the testicular fortitude to parent there kids the right way, instead you were to busy trying to be cool parents. So next time you see a spikey hair kid remember that kid probably did more than i ever did for my own freedom.

        • #3222352

          Having [b]not[/b] experienced the ’60s, your’e in no position to judge.

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Wow hippee

          What makes you think that []you[/b] are qualified to sit in judgement of those who preceded you?

          Perhaps, when you’re a bit older, and, hopefully, a bit wiser, you’ll understand the presumptiveness of your present rants against those who choose to follow a path not to your liking.

          Until then, you would be well advised to refrain from making baseless generalizations.

        • #3222328

          You young man are full of you know what

          by susieq1967 ·

          In reply to Wow hippee

          I was part of that 60’a crowd and my husband served proudly in Vietnam and was called a babby killer when he came home and forther more, our son is 39 years old and has kids that are the age of the columbine gen as you call them. I had my kids early and a lot of us old hippies did. So get your facts straight before you mouth off.; Your just showing how stupid you really are. And for that matter our son also served in the first gulf war so wecolme from a long line of military family. Don’t generalize, it make you look like an horse behind.

        • #3222254

          Are you too dumb or too cowardly to Subscribe to this discussion?

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Wow hippee

          If you’re not going to follow a discussion, don’t even bother posting to it.

          Or, have you determined that civility is too old-fashioned?

        • #3222252

          Since you don’t accept peer-to-peer messages, I conclude that “cowardly” ..

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Wow hippee

          is the answer to the above question.

        • #3220287

          Only hire Timmy McVeigh look-alikes

          by minstrel mike ·

          In reply to Spikey hair and all black wardrobe? Sound like the nuts from Columbine

          Definitely don’t hire spiky-haired kids. Get ex-Marines like Timmy McVeigh (Oklahoma City bomber). Maybe don’t judge folks by how they look, see how they work.

      • #3221538

        Who Gets To Clean Up After Them?

        by johnnysacks ·

        In reply to I knew I was too old for IT

        Kind of like a parent telling them to clean their room…

        I’m trying to get a handle on what two immigrant martyrs have produced over the course of a couple years while they gained the experience to get themselves new jobs. Every mini-application is an undocumented brittle mess containing hardly any coding standards and a patchwork collection of classes with related functionality and hardcoded configuration parameters scattered throughout. RDBMS functionality was a new concept so there is no connection management or transactional control whatsoever.
        First screen of a windows forms app grabs 4 connections for one user immediately.
        Transactions? Forget about it:
        1. Insert table 1
        2. Insert table 2, if fails, delete table 1
        3. Insert table 3, if fails, delete table 2 then delete table 1… and so on

        The database designs are just as bad.

        Documentation is almost funny: ‘After synchorize data aplication show you new records’ Word’s grammer and spellchecking green and red underscores make it look like a Christmas decoration.

        It would be ignorant to assume this scenario is related to an entire age group and management gets the brunt of my blame for allowing them to sit by themselves over in the corner while only reviewing the user interface. I can say that there definitely is value in having senior people available who have spent enough time in hell to provide insight to the consequences of bad decisions. I can also remember the senior people I have worked with in the past who spent the time to show me how something should/could be done and the benefits of doing it that way. It would have taken me under an hour to show these junior developers simple ways to use a single configuration file to store application settings, manage a client/server database connection, and wrap a series of database actions in a transaction.

        • #3221451

          Damn Kids Keep Stealin My Walker

          by metilley9 ·

          In reply to Who Gets To Clean Up After Them?

          Seems like every time I go outside for a break, these youngin’s take my walker. Sure, they think it’s funny, but how am I supposed to get back upstairs and write that COBOL code? Speaking of which, ever heard the one about a prerequisite of a frontal lobotomy in order to write COBOL? It’s true. Now I kant wallk to thype nomore.!

          All kidding aside, IT folk should be home in their own offices where they can code all day and night. Where’s the need to burn gas and drive to an office? And to all you “Young Whipper-Snappers”, there would be no such thing as computers and laptops or an IT industry if it were not for us! So there!

          Dang gone it, I wrote this on my Blackberry outside and it’s raining again. Where’s my walker???

          Anyone know who still uses APL on mainframes? I will relocate anywhere (except NYC), at my expense.

          curlergirl, is that the Wicked Witch of the West as your picture? Faaaaarrrr Out! 😉

          Peace Everyone. God knows we need it!

        • #3222351

          APL

          by systems guy ·

          In reply to Damn Kids Keep Stealin My Walker

          We still use it. But, respectfully, we’re not looking to hire right now.

        • #3219618

          A little upward movement is good

          by craiglarry9 ·

          In reply to Damn Kids Keep Stealin My Walker

          I sense some sanity creeping back into this discussion. Thanks.

          What’s been going on is so pitiful. Any of those ranters ever think how much they are hurting people already hurting at Columbine and those other places? Give it a rest.

        • #3221298

          Sorry….

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to Who Gets To Clean Up After Them?

          but the discription made me laugh. Thanks, but I know you weren’t trying to be funny. (it is sad) The worst part is due to the great schooling, I see non-forigners producing the same, if not worse.

        • #3226220

          Those of us “too old” for IT of course…

          by deletemystuff ·

          In reply to Who Gets To Clean Up After Them?

          I had the pleasure of cleaning up after a youthful IT “consultant” decided that my decrepitness was the reason for a 1 month turnaround estimate on a batch transaction system and that it could be done faster without me. He/she/it (just being gender PC you know) built a nested loop structure to procedurally process transactions from a master/detail table relation in a SQL database without using the JOIN verb (SELECT a master, SELECT matching details, iterate over details style of logic).

          A major problem unforseen by the consultant was that database connection objects for each rowset were instantiated inside of the loops, never closed, never released, and never reused.

          It worked fine when he/she/it tested it with a dozen or so transactions, but under a production load, the database server quickly consumed the limit of connections and the process blocked until the oldest connection timed out. It took 13 minutes to crash at the 1,900 transaction mark …the crucial point of failure when the production volume had peaked at 13,000 transactions in the batch.

          When I finally bandaided that process until I could rewrite it, it took all of 3 seconds to process the full 13,000 transactions once I had moved the connection objects outside of the loops and reused them.

          This particular consultant leaves a trail of disaster everywhere, but with 2 degrees and all of the time spent on “networking” and name dropping, still seems to get new projects to work on in spite of questionable competence.

      • #3221302

        Old AND New

        by sbacheler ·

        In reply to I knew I was too old for IT

        I am just getting in to the IT field at 50 and loving it! It is a shame that I am too old for it! 😉

        • #3221290

          A bit encouragement

          by moehrinp ·

          In reply to Old AND New

          I am working at an engineering consultancy as a Sytems Admin @ 61 years and have problems with getting users to try new things? Hang in there and have fun!!!!

          Incidentially the pay and benefits are really good, mnagement appreciates my looking out for the users….

      • #3221258

        You know, it’s funny….

        by deetle ·

        In reply to I knew I was too old for IT

        I remember vaguely, not so many years ago, the really old guys (30 soemthing) making comments just barely in earshot to the effect “Damn, that kid is good (fast, or whatever).” Of course, these were usually followed by some additional remark that I chose to ignore at the time that began with ‘but.’ Come to think of it, I had spikey hair and an almost all black wardrobe! A few years later, knowing that I hadn’t slowed down any at all, I made similar comment about the new punk kid of 20 years old. I couldn’t even take him to the happy hour. That new punk is now 25, matured, and well trusted with my network. He’s only got a few questions left for the old guy. And now we brought in another youngin, barely out of diapers. I just heard young punk make a very similar comment. At 32, I know I’ve not slowed down that much!

      • #3220967

        I’m sorry to hear that…

        by 50kilroy ·

        In reply to I knew I was too old for IT

        It would seem that ‘they’ have forgotten just WHO it was who invented these blasted things.
        IMO, we ‘old fuddy-duddy’ types should jolly well take our invention back from these Windows babies with their Micro$oft toilet-paper ‘engineering’ certs.
        I’m _still_ fighting with a MS certified systems ‘engineer’ about the ability to connect to a Microsoft network using a DOS boot diskette.
        …?!!

        • #3220568

          [b]Well Stop doing it![/b]

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to I’m sorry to hear that…

          If you’ve been told that it can’t be done you should immediately stop doing it as you are proving that we perform the [b]Impossible Immediately.[/b] :^0

          You don’t want to go putting ideas into these peoples heads they are likely to explode attempting to understand why it works no matter how many times you show them it.

          If that happens it your job to clean up the mess from their exploding heads. 😀

          Col

        • #3220281

          Can’t be done?

          by guru of d0s ·

          In reply to [b]Well Stop doing it![/b]

          Col, old son….

          It’s only the old timers like us that do the things they say can’t be done!

          Miracles we can do today….the impossible will take a couple of days….

          Mike 🙂

        • #3222309

          How’s Tricks Mike?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Can’t be done?

          Glad to see you back here on TR even if you are only paying a short visit.

          I hope you are really enjoying yourself at the moment and have found that Life away from IT that you where looking for.

          As I used to say [i]We perform the Impossible Immediately Miracles take slightly longer and for comic relief we walk on water on the weekends when we have a bit of free time.[/i] I had to stop when I upset some Rabid Born Again Christian though as he took offense to the statement. That was at a training course that I was running and I don’t think it helped that when someone said [b]Jesus Christ[/b] when they had a problem I constantly replied [b]You Called.[/b] Things where so much simpler before we all had to become PC. 😀

          The other one that I used to use was after performing a simple fix to a complex problem when asked [b]How Much[/b] I used to say [b]A Blondie Female Virgin will Do[/b] one bright spark said OK come with me and we walked to the near by maternity hospital and he stood outside the nursery and said [b]Take Your Pick.[/b] 😀

          So after that I modified the reply to [b]A 17 year old Blondie Female Virgin.[/b] Still occasionally use that one today when required. :^0

          Col ]:)

    • #3279968

      Boo-hoo!

      by curlergirl ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      In that case, they can go to technodamnation. Guess I’ll just hop into my vintage Corvette Stingray with my Windows Mobile Smartphone and my Creative Vision MP3/video player and zoom off into the sunset. I’m sure I can find a nice beach somewhere….

    • #3279931

      Same as it ever was

      by techexec2 ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      When we Boomers were in our 20s, many of us had similar thoughts about the management in their 40s, 50s, and 60s. Now its our turn to be on the receiving end.

      Damn whippersnappers!

      :^0

      • #3221220

        Ah yes for the glory days when I was the young insolent onbe!

        by ray.oconnell ·

        In reply to Same as it ever was

        Ah yes back in the day when I lived for learning the latest twist in MS networking or server strategy, while trying to apply my mainframe background to the insanity! How come I feel so stupid these days? How come it is such a pain to study for and pass and MS cert test? It used to be “fun!” Oh well back to my glass of wine and enjoying the sunset!

        • #3221138

          Save a glass for the rest of us!

          by imagiosstudios ·

          In reply to Ah yes for the glory days when I was the young insolent onbe!

          We were all whippersnappers once, it’s true. After semi-retirement forced me back to college,I took up IT training. Prior to that I published simple websites , using Front Page etc., for the computer clueless in my area. …Well, at 53, with grey/white hair and tons of training for applications work, just TRY to get hired in IT! When I walk in, they act as if I’m just there to pick up my grandson.
          Here’s the really funny part,Ray. To patch up my bills while still in school I took a job at a deli counter. Some of the old college jobs come in handy now and then. NOT! after sitting alone in front of a monitor for several years, I was informed by the Boss that I lack the requisite Social Skills to sell someone a chicken sandwich……So I’ll be jumping into my 17 year old Mazda 323, with it’s 289,970 miles on it and joining you soon. Save me, and the rest of us a glass, nay, a few bottles.

        • #3221038

          Your youth is showing.

          by nighthawk808 ·

          In reply to Ah yes for the glory days when I was the young insolent onbe!

          “Back in the day” you would have been learning the latest twist in Novell Netware. It was barely ten years ago when a CNE (Certified Novell Engineer) was practically a license to print money.

          Believe it or not, there was a time when computers ran without Microsoft–because M$ didn’t exist then. It may not seem like it, but less than two decades ago M$ was just another tiny fish in a big pond. At one point, they were in such dire straits that their own employees loaned the company money just to keep it afloat, while Novell was once the 800-pound gorilla of computer networking.

        • #3220750

          PC “I see no reason for a computer in the home” Ken Olsen Founder DEC

          by ray.oconnell ·

          In reply to Your youth is showing.

          Ah yes i remember PC’s coming to the light of day, by the IBM was the gorilla and even Novel was just a pest to them.
          My son went to bootcamp for the USAF back in Aug. and we were talking about him taking a laptop after he got to his training station. I told him I don’t know what the USAF would have for him since the PC was invented 2 years after I got out and the internet as we know it was a bunch of years later. Can you say Trash 80! 256k memory NO hard drive just a floppt and a $3k price!
          Ray

        • #3220730

          Trash 80?

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to PC “I see no reason for a computer in the home” Ken Olsen Founder DEC

          The TRS-80 was a tinker’s delight. Both the hardware & the OS were easily accessible & amenable to expansion & modification, making it an ideal platform for learning about microcomputers.

          It spawned an entire industry devoted to providing products, services & publications (including BYTE) specifically for it.

        • #3220727

          Do you have the superman comic?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Trash 80?

          I do!

          TRS-80’s save the day! YEAH!!!!
          [i]
          Please tell me I am not the only comic book geek around here that knows what I am talking about?!?! :D[/i]

          B-)

        • #3220706

          TRS-80’s save the day!

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Do you have the superman comic?

          I’ll take your word on that one; when the TRS-80 arrived on the scene I was too busy with the ex & her kids, and our respective fledling businesses, to pay attention to any comics other than those in the Sunday paper.

        • #3220699

          Will try to be respectful of my elders ;\

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Do you have the superman comic?

          😀

          It must have been ’78 when we got out model I?
          http://oldcomputers.net/trs80i.html

          I would have been 11 at the time. It was a toy. Startrek and chess were my main uses for the first few years. There was also some mummies tomb game as well.

          About the comic:
          http://www.techknight.com/gallery/jlsoft

          The comic was nothing but an ad for Radio Shack, using superman to get people to read it.

        • #3220647

          Sounds like you had the Level I

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Do you have the superman comic?

          Even with the Level I, dis-assembling the OS, examining the Schematics, & seeing how the I/O routines physically worked provided for a heretofore unavailable learning experience, one that was truly an adventure.

          As for the comic, now that you’ve displayed it, I do have a recollection of seeing it on display in the RS stores.

        • #3220639

          A few years later got the III

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Do you have the superman comic?

          and we still have it, and yes, it works.

          😀

          and because the comic was just a big ad, I think it was free from RS.

        • #3219708

          I still use my 4-P.

          by deepsand ·

          In reply to Do you have the superman comic?

          I still have my Mod 1, Levels I and II. At the moment, the Level II is down, owing to a dead FD controller.

          As I had a lot of personal apps that I’d developed using TRS-DOS/LSI-DOS, CP/M & VISICALC, and as the Z-80 CPU in the 4-P is more than adequate, running them much faster than many WIN based machines, I continue to use it a regular basis.

          And, although it weighs in at 42 lb., it is transportable, allowing me to take it on the road when I’ll be gone for extended periods, and remain current on many tasks which do not require the I-net without having to rely on anything more than having access to AC power.

        • #2599625

          I Remember That Now!

          by jackofalltech ·

          In reply to Do you have the superman comic?

          It took me a couple of minutes but I remember that comic! I’m afraid to say it but I think I’ve got all of you beat. I first learned programming on a (new!) teletype console in high school (Go Patriots!). It had a mylar tape punch/reader and was modem-connected to a mainframe in the basement of another school in the system. Oh the joy of computer algebra I. After a few years I got a job at a major greeting card company as a mainframe COBOL programmer. We didn’t even have terminals, it was all coding sheets and stacks of Holerith (spelling?) cards. Since then I’ve done everything else, Prime mid-range, Trash-80s, Dos, Novell, Windows, Unix, Linux, and about 25 programming languages.
          And I STILL love it all.

          Ralph

        • #3220603

          Camarillo ??

          by havacigar ·

          In reply to Ah yes for the glory days when I was the young insolent onbe!

          Hey, back in the old days (mid 80’s) I enjoyed one of the most beautiful sunsets I had ever seen in a county park just outside Camarillo. Glad to see the sun is still setting there!

    • #3279908

      Not quite right

      by jdmercha ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      This is typical Gartner drivel. They seem to have a way of looking at the symtoms and finding a solution (or a direction) without ever hitting on the root casue.

      They are correct in describing older people having more difficulty with technology, but age has nothing to do with it. Lack of managements understanding of technology is a much bigger problem.

      • #3221687

        Gartner Drivel

        by cs ·

        In reply to Not quite right

        I’ve always thought of Gartner research as being lightweight and inconsequential. This latest news merely confirms it. It must be a corporate ethos that inflates their analysts ego’s in logarithmic inversion of their ability.

    • #3279897

      Old-timers don’t [b]have[/b] to handle it.

      by tonythetiger ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      That’s why they hire you youngsters. Now, back to work, slave-bot! 🙂

    • #3279894

      Again another inescapable piece of logic

      by tony hopkinson ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Gartner := f’ingmoron;

    • #3279883

      Weeeeellll…

      by jkameleon ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      For the time being, IT profession still wants me to stick around, not the other way around.

      But, then again… I always was a “versatilitst”.

    • #3279861

      Younger people favor Windows

      by stress junkie ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I tinink that Gartner’s report is trying to favor the people who have a high opinion of Windows. These tend to be the younger and less experienced people.

      • #3221991

        Younger people favor Windows

        by codebubba ·

        In reply to Younger people favor Windows

        >> … these tend to be the younger and less experienced people. << Could be - however I think that's a little bit overly general. In my case I followed the Windows development trend mainly because that's where the business was. I don't knock Linux or any of the other platforms available - however when it came right down to it, I found a much wider audience for my software development skills under the Windows platform. Simple economics. Aside from that the Windows platform has become very competent. -CB 🙂

        • #3221745

          I meant that Gartner generally loves Windows

          by stress junkie ·

          In reply to Younger people favor Windows

          What I meant was that since the report came from Gartner the report said that the people who are most likely to favor Windows are the important ones.

        • #3221707

          I totally agree

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to I meant that Gartner generally loves Windows

          I’ve seen way too many so called Small Business Specialists who live & Breath Windows and will not consider anything else no matter what is involved.

          I got a good laugh at one place that specialises in CG with an IBM 2K CPU Blade where the New Boy had tried to install Windows 2003 Enterprise Server over SUSE that was quite happily running the system.

          Not as a VM but as the OS and to hell with the version of SUSE that was running on that unit and it didn’t matter that all the specialised Image Processing was done on Nix based applications Windows was the only way to go.

          When the Graphic people complained I was called in to get the unit working again and was wondering just how many of the 2,000 CPU’s that they where paying for where actually running as there is no possibility of any form of Windows that is currently available to drive that beast let alone allow work to be done in a timely manner.

          I pulled the backup drive and swapped out the existing drive and had everyone happy in a few minutes except for the Young Guy who was insisting that they had to have Windows on that Blade as there was no other OS that was capable of working. After all they’ve only had that particular system in place for about 2 years now with very few problems. Every problem that I’ve had to fix has involved some [b]New Young Guy[/b] messing up the system by installing some form of windows on it. Pity that they have never been taught just how little any form of Windows gets when it comes to the [/b] Scalability Stakes.[/b]

          I left suggesting that if he really must run Windows on that thing he try creating a Virtual Machine and run 2003 ES from there but to leave the base OS alone so that work could be done. I naturally re-imaged the boot drive that he had mucked up originally and put it into safe storage so that a complete reload wouldn’t be required when he messes it up again.

          Their Down Time is measured in the Millions of $ per Hour and this young fool had to take out the system for 2 days for no good reason other than the fact that it wasn’t running Windows.

          I mainly blame the management for employing people like this but then again when I look at what is on offering I suppose that they have very little choice.

          Col

        • #3221264

          Sometimes you just stand amazed at what you see.

          by stress junkie ·

          In reply to I totally agree

          You have to wonder how some people get and keep their job.

        • #3221216

          Windows not for the young

          by ray.oconnell ·

          In reply to Younger people favor Windows

          The main problem of the young and windows is a lack of discipline. I moved to Windows infrastructure from VMS years ago, first cert WNT 3.51, ok! Thew Windows world needs old people that have sat up all night babysitting a poorly performing system or upgrade due to lack of planning and due diligence. When we are young we don’t see any reason for that “wasted” time! However when you just sunk the Enterprise accounting system, or worse in this day and age, the web ordering system it all starts to make sense. Unfortunately I see these same characteristics catching on in the Unixm VMS, and Linus worlds.

      • #3221029

        It all they really know

        by leoforward ·

        In reply to Younger people favor Windows

        It’s like the way math was taught to my kids. They didn’t seem to think it was important to understand how to do simple arithmetic in their heads or even on paper since they always had calculators.

        A lot of these kids coming out of school never actually had to deal with large systems. They think a file with two million records is as large as they come. They measure size by the number of gig on a single hard drive and the memory needed for games.

        It’s sad how many of the newly minted CS degrees I encounter think computers are just for making impressive graphics. They quickly go into shock when they realize business systems have to produce something useful and they aren’t given open ended schedules. I think their professors got them into the habit of thinking a due date was more of a suggestion than a real expectation.

    • #3279844

      screw em, I retired at 47

      by danlm ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Even though Im contracting, with my retirement. I can work at Walmart and survive. He can have his wipper snappers that will go out and spend 40,000 for some application that inhouse could have wrote and had working for under 500. Lol, and be what the employee’s/management wants too.

      Yup, go for it.

      Dan

    • #3279843

      Well Microsoft had

      by zlitocook ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Started borrowing software from XEROX and other companies like Apple it seems that almost all of the other companies had old guys working on the software. I have been a contractor for a long time and I found out that the younger people have great ides it will not apply to the work place that hires them.
      Most companies look to new hires to be able to learn in place polices and to be able to add their new knowledge to them.
      But it has not worked out that way, the new people need contact with others ether by IM or other means to contact and interact with each other.
      Older people just need to see what is going on and respond to it.

      • #3221831

        I don’t want to sound rude but

        by shifty78 ·

        In reply to Well Microsoft had

        are you one of the older or younger folk?
        Just wondered if your grammar was so bad because of old age or the terrible education system these days?

    • #3279839

      Us old Geezers built IT

      by av . ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I can’t believe Gartner would describe us oldies but goodies as a bunch of fuddy-duddy, sedan driving, pot bellied, has-beens. Thats just not true. How truly disrespectful and shortsighted on their part. Every age group has something different of value to offer to make IT successful.

      Fresh new talent doesn’t always equal success. Young whippersnappers have to “cut their teeth” in IT before they should have the keys to the city. That takes years.

      Mark Raskino is sadly misinformed about us old geezers. We might have wrinkles and more girth than we’d like, but we have IT wisdom and I’ve yet to see a young’un have that quality. We should be working together with young whippersnappers, not forced to retire because we’re older.

      Boo Gartner.

      • #3279837

        My hat goes off to you guys..the true pioneers of IT

        by why me worry? ·

        In reply to Us old Geezers built IT

        the hell with Gartner and their B.S. articles

        they have done nothing but done a great disservice to peopel in the I.T. field and are pro outsourcing to 3rd world countries, which I am strongly opposed to

      • #3279835

        I always welcome the opportunity to work with older IT folks

        by why me worry? ·

        In reply to Us old Geezers built IT

        there is a mutual learning experience that is gained from working with older IT folks. They know a lot more about data structurs and the inner workings of computing than they are given credit for. On the flipside, the older IT folks learn from us 30 and 20 something year olds about current and upcoming technology. As my parents and grandparents always say, “there is a lot to learn from the older generation, so stop being stubborn, shut up, and listen to a piece of history as you may just learn something.” Simply because people are old does not render them useles or obsolete. Like fine wine, we get better with age, not worst.

        • #3281505

          Snort…..

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to I always welcome the opportunity to work with older IT folks

          I am a middle aged guy – 45 – and I don’t need a young whipper snapper to keep me current on technology, thank you very much.

          Good example is that I’ve been browsing YouTube for a year, and mentioned it to some of my younger collegues, who all shrugged. 1.65 Billion later, they all wonder what the fuss is about.

          James

        • #3220582

          YouTube….

          by scifiman ·

          In reply to Snort…..

          isn’t remotely about technology. It’s just fashion. MTV for individuals. Maybe that’s why they shrugged, as I do concerning crap like that.

        • #3221504

          40+

          by stuoutlaw1 ·

          In reply to I always welcome the opportunity to work with older IT folks

          I’m in my 40’s and had a chance at learning all of this IT stuff when I was young but thought I’d let the geeks have at it so I got a degree in machine shop technology(notice the T) that didn’t work out so at 38 I went back to school and now work with “old Timers” that are at least 10-15 years my junior no matter the age group we all have something to contribute even if it’s just a”new pair of eyes”

        • #3222024

          How come companies don’t see us old geezers as fine wine too?

          by av . ·

          In reply to I always welcome the opportunity to work with older IT folks

          I think it all boils down to money. Old geezers are more expensive, and heck, we’re falling apart to boot so healthcare costs go up.

          We’re still worth it because we have IT wisdom. You can’t read it in a book.

          Young minds are precious. Their enthusiasm for a job and their fresh eye to the future can move a company forward. Us old geezers can do it too, but it isn’t perceived to be fresh.

          Maybe the bottom line is that companies should decide which person would best suit their needs. Maybe if they’re lucky, they can find some oldie but goodie that can do it all.

        • #3221705

          One thing here

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to How come companies don’t see us old geezers as fine wine too?

          I know that they are out there but far more often that I care to think about it,it’s the younger ones who are not prepared to put in the necessary hours to do the job right.

          I’ve trained many youngsters when I was working Big Business and very few of them found it necessary to work the actual hours required after all if it couldn’t be done in [b]Normal Business Hours[/b] it was impossible to do. I’ve lost count of the number of times that I’ve had to put in several days to fix a problem and during that time with a lot of money being lost per hour I’ve watched many of the youngsters walk out the door at Knock Off time because they want a Life outside of work. I don’t blame them completely but I also don’t see much of a [b]Work Ethic[/b] either. Many seem far more interested in the pay check at the end of the week rather than the actual work.

          I know if I worked that way all my life I would have been working for several companies that went broke because their systems where down and they couldn’t do any work. Of course in a place like Banks it would have engendered quite a lot of confidence in the customers if for several days they where told [b]The Computers Are Down so We Can Not Hand out any of Your Money Today. [/b] 😀

          Col

        • #3220421

          Young people have a different work ethic

          by av . ·

          In reply to One thing here

          I think many of them just don’t care. They’re bored, distracted and not willing to go that extra mile to get the job done. Maybe thats the end result of too many company layoffs and outsourcing. Why work so hard when your job can be eliminated tomorrow?

          I can understand that attitude to some degree, but young people have a long work life ahead of them and global competition to face. If they want to be in IT or any other demanding job, they’re not going to be working 9 to 5.

          I’ve supervised and worked with younger people over the years in the IT field and have been absolutely amazed at the lack of work ethic. One of the best examples I can remember is a young 20-something woman who brought her boyfriend with her to a network upgrade on a Saturday. When lunchtime came, she said they had plans and promptly left though we weren’t even close to finished. Unbelievable, but true. :^0

          edited for the emoticon

        • #3220415

          It’s just life I suppose

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Young people have a different work ethic

          I’ve seen similar things as well and generally speaking they didn’t last long working for me. I was always a strange boss I insisted that they finish what they had started before they left. I admit that this wasn’t always possible but it was the ideal which I tried to stick to so if it came 4.15 pm and someone picked up a big job I told them to leave it till tomorrow and do something else like work in the weekly orders for parts of whatever else needed doing at the time.

          I’ve had some truly excellent youngsters working for me who would put in as much time as necessary and then there where the others who where hopeless and unfortunately they where in the majority but when you got one willing you grabbed hold of them with all your might and didn’t let go no matter what.

          Back in those days the Bean Counters seemed to believe that we could work 9 to 5 and do everything necessary unless it was their system that was down and then all bets where off. 😀

          But when any of my staff put in that extra unnecessary time I always made sure that they had the time off to make up for the extra hours that they put in if I couldn’t swing a payment for them. My staff all knew that I would back them to the hilt no matter what happened even if they stuffed up as that was my concern no ones else’s and I would take whatever action was necessary and I would never allow someone else to put down one of my staff no matter how much they may have deserved the [b]Stearn Talking To.[/b] I can remember one of the middle managers who tried it on with one of my young techs who had messed up on something the fool tried to take him down in public and that really got under my skin so I dragged him away into my office and read the Riot Act to him and told him if he had a problem with one of my staff come to me not my staff. The young guy at first thought that I was protecting him and that he wouldn’t get into any trouble for his actions but the others simply asked had he done this and when he replied yes he was told that the guy that I had pulled off would have been the better option and not to underestimate just how nasty I could be when required. More to the point why had he not come to me and told what had happened as that would have been much better and I would have been far less hard on him for his mistake. It was a good learning exercises for him and whenever something nasty happened again he always grabbed me and told me what had happened without trying to paint himself in a good light who had been misunderstood or whatever if it was his mistake he came straight out with it. He still works for me today and has learned well from his mistakes and now while he’s no longer a youngster approaching his late 30’s he’s as vital to the business as any one else and just as energetic.

          I always looked after my staff no matter what happened and when I had to make a Cut Back because Senior Management where incapable of seeing how to make money no one was ever left in the dark. That wasn’t always helpful the Upper Management but my staff appreciated what I did for them and I always found any one that I had to let go another job so I never really believed that I actually fired anyone. While it wasn’t necessary it was just the way that I worked and for some strange reason every one that has ever worked for me seems to think that I’m great to work for. Don’t get me wrong they all complain like hell about me but they still follow me around as I moved from company to company all those years ago and every one of the originals approached me when I setup this place as what I thought would be Semi Retirement only working a couple of days a week and having time for my play toys and do all the things that I couldn’t when I was working Big Business. I saw a market in Small Business and took it then every one of my staff approached me with a list of customers a mile long and asked for a job. Well the idea was nice and I liked the 12 hours that it lasted. I’m old enough to know better but I must have been drunk at the time I can not see any other reason why I did what I did back them.

          Col

        • #3222242

          Self employment always looks good

          by av . ·

          In reply to It’s just life I suppose

          Isn’t that the dream of everyone that has worked in big business for awhile? Its worth a try everytime just to see if you can do it – even if its a pipe dream. One day, you might just make it.

          I think your attitude towards your staff is admirable. How could any manager ever expect their staff to go the extra mile if they don’t?

        • #3222134

          [b]I Failed[/b]

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to It’s just life I suppose

          It’s now 15 years latter I have 10 techs working for me and I’m now spending far more time working and looking after things that I ever did when I did real work. Or at least worked for a Boss.

          What’s worse is I just don’t get to play with any of my play toys much if at all and that was the entire idea of working for myself. 🙁

          And don’t think that I get to make all the decisions I now have and office Manager to do the paper work and she makes Hitler look like a [b]Nice Person.[/b] Whenever I undercharge for a job or do something for free I get read the Riot Act about how I’m stealing from the business and costing it money. I’m sure that she thinks that she owns the place and I’m a unnecessary inconvenience that is only useful when she stuffs up and needs her But pulled out of the fire.

          At one place on the first visit I was supposed to be pulling a bit of cable setting up the router and ADSL connection so I told her that I was figuring on a days work. I had to leave the place around 10.00 am when the salesperson backed a 40 tom excavator over his computer and asked could I fix it. Laughing so hard that you are crying isn’t a good first impression to make so I made my apologies claiming that something important had gone astray and beat a hasty retreat from the place saying that I’d finish up tomorrow. I just couldn’t keep a straight face and the person responsible didn’t help any as he kept referring to the destroyed unit as a [b]Steam Powered Piece of S##t.[/b] He walked into the bosses office and asked could I repair his computer and when I went into his office it wasn’t there he just said that he got feed up with it and threw it out the window so I went looking. He was hanging out the window saying warmer or colder as I looked around for what I thought would be a repair. I didn’t expect Io see bits of it hanging out from under the track of a [b]Bloody Big Excavator.[/b]

          I couldn’t even walk back into the office as I was laughing too hard I just walked around the yard making out that I was looking at the heavy earth moving equipment while I stopped laughing then beat a hasty retreat till I could come back with a straight face.

          When I returned to base I was immediately hit with [b]What Are You Doing Here You Said You Would Be Out All Day![/b] Even then I was still laughing so hard that I was crying and the self important office clerk walked away in disgust. I spent the rest of the day hold up in my office laughing my heart out.

          Apparently the guy had just sold a $850,000.00 AU piece of equipment and had decided that he wanted a new computer one that actually worked so he removed the option about them complaining about spending some money.

          I never got to see something like that when I worked for Big Business and more importantly I never got to deal with Earthmover’s as they are an interesting breed. They just tell you what they want and you have to work out a solution for something that works as they have short fuses and if something doesn’t work on the second attempt they are more than likely to kill it and then blame you for its demise. 😀

          While I suppose I would like some spare time I can honestly say Life is anything but Dull. :^0

          OH I should add that what had gone missing early the previous day was found in the boss office under some of his papers after he had insisted that he hadn’t been in the room. I was only every Face Plate that I had on me so I had to go and get some more.

          Col

        • #3220433

          Yes, we are more expensive :-)

          by williaa6 ·

          In reply to How come companies don’t see us old geezers as fine wine too?

          I was slapped in the face with an example of my cost in this brave, new world. I submitted an internal proposal for the creation of CBTs. My method, proven to be successful, was not chosen. Why? Because my company can send the work off-shore to an outside company, have it done by sweet, Indian 20 somethings, and then sent back, all for less than it would cost to pay me.

          The quality and effectiveness of the end result is best left for another thread.

          49 years old, 25 years of mainframe, self taught in PCs, natural flair for training. That all adds up to not-very-much in today’s bottom line ruled world.

      • #3219883

        Right On

        by stephanie ·

        In reply to Us old Geezers built IT

        If the young are so good, why do I always have to bail them out of mishaps? We are like wine, better with age.

      • #3217932

        What you’ve missed

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Us old Geezers built IT

        AV, were you an old fogey when you got into IT? Did Old fogeys really build IT or was it a younger generation?

        Look at Allen and Gatesm, they were but mere snot nosed geeks when they changed the industry. Sure they are old farts now but not when the world was changed.

    • #3279838

      Gartner is to MS as Al Jazeera is to Osama Bin Laden

      by why me worry? ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Gartner is very pro Microsoft and biased against anything else. I am not surprised they made such a bullcrap statement about “old geezers”. Those old geezers can teach us young whipper snappers a few things about data structures and computing in general.

      F**K YOU GARTNER..YOUR OPINIONS ARE CRAP AND SO IS YOUR ORGANIZATION AND ANY IT EXECUTIVE WHO READS YOUR DAMN REVIEWS IS A BUTTHEAD

      • #3221448

        Your too kind……..

        by rlambertsc ·

        In reply to Gartner is to MS as Al Jazeera is to Osama Bin Laden

        And I quote “F**K YOU GARTNER..YOUR OPINIONS ARE CRAP AND SO IS YOUR ORGANIZATION AND ANY IT EXECUTIVE WHO READS YOUR DAMN REVIEWS IS A BUTTHEAD”

        DO IT TODAY. I can’t remember when I have read an article that so immdediately ticked me off.

        “The best way to understand what’s going to happen, Bittman said, is to look at what your children and grandchildren are doing.”

        This reminds of the Gates comment on how to learn to use email when he said to ask your kids. Everybody laughed then too. Idiots!!

        “Senior IT baby boomers need Web-savvy twentysomethings, analysts say” That’s right and they need us too.

        What ever happened to the stability we provide. I guess I won’t be able to get a job with Gartner, or maybe I should apply. Can anybody say discrimination?

        • #3221276

          I love your attitude!!

          by hlhowell9 ·

          In reply to Your too kind……..

          Web savvy is not just being able to cobble together some HTML, VRML and JAVA to get fancy pictures on the tube. Yet that seems to be the effect today.

          I have loved the “evolution” of graphic based programming. I liken it to the older chinese pictographs, which the chinese have since just about abandoned. You cannot evolve pictograms fast enough in technology to describe the complexities of modern networks, massively parallel programming, or even graphical indexing and processing. Instead we all fall back on Calculus and mental imaging which has no dimensional limits, Like the fourier transforms that have migrated from audio to RF, to photographs, to video and now are being used in 3D processing as well. The future is n-dimensional, and the ability to express it in graphics is always n-x dimensional, yielding the impossible problem of representing something in less than full detail.

          Yet these young folks are brought up on “objects”, “GUI’s” and so foth that are really insufficient ways for us Geezers to describe to the newbies the effects of our efforts. The graphics are an aid at illustration, not a means of actual performance.

          Yea Microsoft and the “GUI revolution” or as I like to call it the “GUI devolution”.

          Regards,
          Les H

        • #3221035

          “Senior IT baby boomers need Web-savvy twentysomethings, analysts say”

          by nighthawk808 ·

          In reply to Your too kind……..

          Are these the same geezers that invented TCP/IP, HTML, Ethernet, and the rest of the infrastructure that these “Web-savvy twentysomethings” supposedly are the experts in? Where are today’s John von Neumanns or Claude Shannons or Martin Gardners?

          Taking a quick glance at my bookshelf, I see books by Douglas Hofstadter, Richard Feynman, Richard Dawkins, Steven Pinker, Marvin Minsky, John McCarthy, Don Knuth, and Murray Gell-Mann. Of these, I believe Pinker is the youngest of the group at a spry 52 years old. Not a single twentysomething in the group.

          How old was Tim Berners-Lee when he invented the WWW? 36. How old is he now? 51. Well, I guess we shouldn’t listen to him anymore; he’s an old fart now. And Robert Metcalfe is 60! Time to put him out to pasture. (BTW, Gartner Group analysts: I’m not going to tell you who he is. Run along to your favorite search engine or Wikipedia to find out. You’re too young to remember what he did, since it happened before you were born.)

          Every generation thinks it’s so much smarter than the last. But even 300 years ago, an old geezer had the sense to realize that “If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants.”

    • #3281552

      Interesting quote here

      by nicknielsen ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      [i]Many CEOs believe that their CIO is cost-focused and not capable of contributing to growth — and they need IT to contribute to growth.”[/i]

      This comment begs a question or two:

      *How many of these CEOs hired their CIO [u]because[/u] he was cost-focused?
      *Isn’t this the same Gartner that told us the world economy would essentially collapse because it would cost so much to mitigate the effects of Y2K?
      *What’s the average age of a Gartner analyst? 23?

      I’ve been a “versatilist” for years, often writing code one day and repairing equipment the next. Since I’ve concentrated on hardware recently, I’m not as proficient at scripting/coding as I used to be, but I doubt it would take long to get back up to snuff.

      Gartner has never impressed me with their insight. It seems to typify the younger generation’s expectation that you can get paid just for showing up.

      • #3281533

        This sounds like an HR problem to me…

        by jlrobins ·

        In reply to Interesting quote here

        …and some places, it is an issue that is being taken up. Next week, the IT department here is having a session on working with the ‘new techie types’. Could be useful in a ‘real world’ company, not just academe.

      • #3221618

        20 somethings make me laugh

        by jneilson ·

        In reply to Interesting quote here

        I read an engineering forum from time to time. A lot of young engineers, fresh out of school post there and one of their main complains is they are required to do things that aren’t engineer related or worst yet, perform physical shop labor. Poor guys (or girls). Do colleges tell their students their going to get $100k management position and a corner office right off the bat now?

        • #3221582

          yep

          by locolobo ·

          In reply to 20 somethings make me laugh

          I took an Exchange Server course at a local community college recently. The professor told us that consultants in Exchange made $150/hr. He even showed us consulting firm prices from somewhere to back it up. He did not explain that those were the retail prices not what the “man in the trench” took home.
          Most of the kids ate it up. It’s a beautiful dream. Take a few courses, get a MCSE make $$$! LOL

          Paul

        • #3221355

          Complaining kids

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to 20 somethings make me laugh

          Every time I’m around somebody complaining that “this isn’t what I went to school for and why do I have to do this, don’t they have custodians to move equipment” I get a Janis Joplin earwig: “Cryyyyy Bay-beeee, Cryy Bay-beee”

          I usually start humming along…

        • #3221794

          Let me tell you about my job…

          by jneilson ·

          In reply to Complaining kids

          Six weeks after I started my current job the plant manager wheels a mop bucket over to me. Yep, it was my turn to mop the bathroom floor.

        • #3221740

          Been there, done that

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Let me tell you about my job…

          I can’t begin to count the number of jobs I’ve had where the description included “and other duties as assigned.”

          Surprised them a couple of times, too! At one job, the boss told me the toilet in the ladies room was leaking and needed to be fixed. I went and took a look, came back and told them it needed a flapper valve, a complete new fill valve assembly, and a new wax seal and I couldn’t fix it without those. Everybody laughed. Three weeks later we had a minor flood and the boss broke down and called a plumber. He installed a new flapper valve, a fill valve assembly, and a new wax seal. After that, the boss bought the parts and let me do the plumbing repairs. 😀

        • #3225631

          Not me, I don’t do floors

          by bjgordon ·

          In reply to Let me tell you about my job…

          What an extremely short-sighted management your company has. They remind me of some people who would “climb the fence to keep from wearing out the gate.”

          Unless janitors are extremely highly paid where you are, it can’t possibly be cheaper to pay you to mop a floor, and lose your productivity in IT for however long, than pay a janitor to do it. Janitors are lucky to get minimum wage and they usually don’t have benefits. If you are in IT, even entry level, you make more than that and it therefore costs the company that much per hour for you to be a janitor for 15-30 minutes.

      • #3221671

        Mid Life Crisis

        by nicole_keil ·

        In reply to Interesting quote here

        We should stop being so ageist. Someone is either good at what they do or not. It’s bad to focus on age too much. I’m 25 and I already feel like I should head for the nearest retirement home. Can anyone say mid life crisis?

        • #3221297

          Mid life crisis?

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Mid Life Crisis

          I was teaching when I turned 50. When my atudents asked how old I was, I told them I was half-way there.

          As you said, stop being so ageist. Crisis is crisis; don’t blame it on age. If you can, take a week (or even a weekend) at your favorite vacation spot. It’s what I do to get over it.

        • #3221024

          Mid-life like puberty is coming earlier

          by leoforward ·

          In reply to Mid Life Crisis

          I was in my 30s before I had my first midlife crisis. A week at a cabin without telephone, television, or pager service helped a great deal. In my late 40s I had another somewhat different type. This one was cured by resuming a relationship with rugby combined with a week at a beach without computer access and my mobile turned off, good cold beer, an umbrella, a kayak, and a couple of good books.

          These days I just turn off the phone and do other things like take pictures of my new granddaughter. I even use one of those newfangled digital cameras.

        • #3225741

          It’s not age, it’s experience.

          by bjgordon ·

          In reply to Mid Life Crisis

          It may seem like most of this is about age, but it is really about experience. Anyone new to IT, no matter how old, will believe all the stuff they learned in class. Why not? We all did.

          It takes EXPERIENCE to learn the laws of unintended consequences!

    • #3281502

      Reminds me of stories my dad told me

      by rknrlkid ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      When he left the Navy as an electronics technician in the late 60s, he went to work for Digital Equipment Corporation. He was the “old man” surrounded by MIT grads. (He was a high school drop out, btw, who got his GED and some college while in the military.) He was far from clueless, however, because as a hardware guy he understood digital electronics down to the inner workings of the chip. I remember watching him pour over electronic blueprints that covered the kitchen table (and they were the inner workings of a new chip!).

      He later retired from DEC. Before he retired, he would often laughingly talk about how he had guys with PhD’s working for him, when he was a high school dropout. He credited his success to two things:

      1. Experience with technology.

      2. Experience in managing people.

      Two things the younger, more highly educated people did not have! I think many of the complaints that we often hear on these boards about management is less about management in general, but more about a younger, inexperienced management that consistently makes the same mistakes. As far as the technical side, we are always hearing about how someone screws something up 😉

      • #3221703

        I’ve never understood the insentient need by these youngsters

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to Reminds me of stories my dad told me

        To reinvent the wheel. They are mostly incapable of accepting that things work this way and then get on with the job as allocated instead they are constantly trying to completely redesign the entire system for some reason best know to them.

        Col

        • #3221296

          Every one of them wants to be the next Bill Gates

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to I’ve never understood the insentient need by these youngsters

          or Larry Page. They didn’t pay enough attention in school to understand that the most successful inventors or innovators didn’t invent anything new.

          They simply took existing technology and applied it differently.

        • #3220429

          Strange, isn’t it

          by williaa6 ·

          In reply to I’ve never understood the insentient need by these youngsters

          Yes. Why do they do that (re-invent the wheel)? I’ve never been able to figure it out.

        • #3225737

          But llisten anyway.

          by bjgordon ·

          In reply to I’ve never understood the insentient need by these youngsters

          If your previous posts are a sample of your style and personality, I bet you listen to the new ideas anyway. Buried in at least some of them are some good ideas that need to be polished with a little reality. Getting some of these young’uns to accept that their idea is just a start can be the difficult part.

          The young can learn from the old, but it can work the other way as well. We old geezers sometimes are stuck in our little box and can’t think outside of it.

        • #3225708

          Well when I used to work for a Boss

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to But llisten anyway.

          I did and quite often picked up some great ideas, well at least ways to help me do things faster from parts of what where presented as complete solutions which wouldn’t work in the then currently available environment or would have been horrendously expensive to deploy.

          I’ve always maintained that the Day I stop learning new stuff will be the day that I die or start suffering from Demetre. Though I’m not sure that the latter is too far off. 😀

          But since I’ve supposedly gone into [b]Semi Retirement[/b] I’m no longer exposed to many of the yununs anymore. The youngest of my staff is now 30 odd and we are now getting ready for our walking frames. My original idea was to setup this place work maybe 2 days per week and spend the rest of my time playing with my Play Toys. I for saw a 1 man operation with no real hassles just a couple of clients that i could charge a monthly retainer and only need to spend a few hours there per month and be able to do most of the necessary stuff remotely. Unfortunately after I had Registered the business it only lasted 12 hours and I had everyone of my previous staff coming to me asking for a job along with a list of clients a mile long. The SOD’s complained enough about me when they where working for me that you would hope that they wouldn’t want to see me again. 🙁

          Now days the only young ones that I really get to see besides a few that do some [b]Work Experience[/b] here are the children of clients.

          Once I’ve followed the advice of the children the parents soon realise that their kids don’t know quite as much as they think that they did. I just wish that it wasn’t quite so frustrating along the way. Well we all live to learn so I suppose it’s part of the [b]Learning Experience.[/b]

          Col

    • #3281345

      Talk To My Kids About It

      by ole man ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I have kids that take care of anything I can’t handle.
      You mess with me, they’ll handle you too.

    • #3281329

      Knowledgebase

      by mike ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Years ago I worked for Shell Oil Offshore Exploration. One year there was a big…big push to offer retirement packages…that bottom line bean counter logic… let’s retire all the big wage earners and get some young bucks in here so we can pay them less. Well a bunch of old timers took the package and the young guns came on board…. then the problems started, units had to be replace for no other reason than they did not understand them…Shell was famous for modifying purchased equipment, geez didn’t anyone else see that coming? So tons of money went into changing “obsolete” equipment (that worked perfectly fine) with higher tech…. problem was when you reinvent the wheel you hit all the bumps fresh too, even more if you are not an experienced driver!!!. The inexperience costs in other ways also…the young guns bought up all kinds of stuff that simple did not suit the needs of the project or did not function together like the old modified stuff did…(Geez I guess those old coots jacked around with everything just cause they were bored or senile and not because they had a PLAN with a PURPOSE). Some of these young studs were given Carte Blanc and was that a mistake?expensive dinners, luxury car rentals?one young fella wound up having to have his parents mortgage their home to bail him out of American Express charges when Shell finally decided not to pay.

      The point of all this being is that when you have some asinine notion that you are smarter than evolution and do not need the value of history and you decimate your sources of knowledge, you have restricted your potential in a dangerous gamble that usually yields a handful of worthless cards. I personally believe that if you watch a baby you can potentially learn new things to apply to your life?..young or old, we are all unique individuals with unique perspectives on life and life?s experiences, to limit the potential for knowledge and growth by age discrimination or anything other type of discrimination is a fools game.

      • #3281281

        To quote G.B. Shaw

        by nicknielsen ·

        In reply to Knowledgebase

        “Hegel was right when he said that we learn from history that man can never learn anything from history.”

        • #3281210

          IT newbies and language

          by drace ·

          In reply to To quote G.B. Shaw

          I work in a company that has an amazing pedigree, from the invention of the transistor through development of Unix and the C programming language. All achived by having the experience and knowledge of age combined with the energy and drive of youth. These days you are lucky if you meet an IT grad who can speak English properly. All of the major achievemnts in our technology were achieved by MY generation. People try to put us down…..

        • #3221354

          …talkin’ ’bout my generation

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to IT newbies and language

          Oh, sorry! Flashback. 😀

        • #3221127

          Flashback or Dejavu?

          by imagiosstudios ·

          In reply to …talkin’ ’bout my generation

          Just be careful you don’t just Ffffff-ade away, Nick!
          All of the IT training in the world cannot replace that good, solid Humanities part of a real college degree. Without it, these kids haven’t a clue WHY they are doing any of their work, beyond the paycheck and the 401 K anyhoo! ” Ain’t it a Sha-ay-ame..”?

    • #3281213

      I work WITH an older member of IT

      by terry.courtney ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I am young myself (22), and I currently work as an engineer in a small team with two other members of staff.

      I work very closely with an older member of staff than myself, and I dont see what the problem is with older IT workers… he is a wealth of knowledge and is very maticulous in the work that he does. I have a lot of respect for his experience with older computer systems right up to present day!

      Together we work very well as a team, there is not one person that can know everything, and to have a powerful pool of knowledge of different sectors of IT like we do, is very effective and jobs get done cleanly and to a high standard. We teach each other new things everyday (He often tends to teach me more than I teach him tho lol)

      I dont see why older members of staff should have a problem, much like this rubbish about women not being as capable, ANYONE is capable of anything, no-one should be shoe boxed and under-estimated age,sex,race etc

      So I believe the index finger is in need of raising to this Gartner guy 🙂

      If anything us young*uns have much to learn from you more experienced veterans!!

      Cheers

      • #3281205

        I work with a bunch of younger guys

        by johnc ·

        In reply to I work WITH an older member of IT

        and it’s great to be a 60 year old IT guy.
        As IT manager I love working with them. We all have great respect for each other and this makes the days so much fun. They teach me a hell of a lot and I teach them about older equipment we still use. When they have problems and I solve it, I am often told by my guys “thats why you are the boss”. To hell with this Gartner guy

        • #3221659

          You are so right

          by rhomp20029 ·

          In reply to I work with a bunch of younger guys

          I just retired from managing a project with a bunch of young guys. We really worked well together. They had the technical knowledge better than I did but I had the business sense and enough of the technical to be able to link the two together.

          When it came to doing the new projects I would work with them figuring out the best way to do the business work and then they would work with me at analyzing the best technical methodology. Win/Win situation for both of us as I kept them on the straight and narrow on what the business required and they kept the technology focused.

          When it comes to figuring out the problems and how to fix the data errors the best and most efficient way, that is when I come into my glory. The user can tell me what they did and I can then tell my guys exactly where to look for the problem area and how to change it so the problem gets trapped and fixed right away before it causes other problems.

          My big complaint with the current generation of techies is that they are indeed techies. They are taught all the latest and greatest. What they are not taught is the business sense behind it and that is where we old timers come into our glory. I remember when my company was adding a special client with huge billings and special needs. We needed to feed the data from the regular system to this new system and every time they had a glitch I was the one they came to to find it, explain it and tell them how to get around it. There are some things that experience teaches and you need us oldsters to keep you going and tell you why things were done the way they were. You may need to change them but unless you understand what you are changing you will truly screw it up and end up costing the companies a lot more money fixing the mess than if you listened to us tell you why it was a mess in the first place. Experience can beat talent every time.

          I was lucky in that I had a team that understood my best uses and listened and learned from me. I got very sick and was out for a month. Because I had worked with them and kept them in the picture of exactly what was going on and what we were going to do about it, they were able to function without me and not lose a step. I also knew that when I devised a solution to a problem, all I had to do was explain my solution and they would find the best tech way to implement it. Like I said, it can be a true win/win situation if you have the right people who understand each other and the values each brings to the table.

        • #3221606

          agree 100%

          by exoduz87 ·

          In reply to You are so right

          in my old IT gig, i recieved a new manager in the final stages of my working there. he was early 20’s in charge of a small 3 man dept with quite a largish infrastructure. he did have quite a bit of techno knowledge but knew nothing about management in terms of projects and personel. needless to say, things went to hell and he ended up wasting a lot of money on needless items.

          the manager i had before him, was about 40 but performed very well in the management position. sure he wasen’t the most up to date on technology, but i have come to see now that his job was to manage. mine was to be the young techno geek up to date with the latest and greatest.

        • #3221686

          The cost of youth

          by cs ·

          In reply to agree 100%

          I had a young “Star” manager who was good UNIX, but he was hopeless with negotiation. He negotiated a “great” deal for “Data Storage” where our bank paid a monthly service fee per Gigabyte that was the same as purchasing a Gigabyte of hard disk. The additional monthly cost to the bank was more than the value of the Lamborghini he used to drive.
          I’d told him it was a bad deal, but I had grey hair so was ignored.

      • #3221630

        Old age…

        by tweakerxp ·

        In reply to I work WITH an older member of IT

        Just remember one thing folks….

        Old age and trechery will always over-come youth and skill.

        ROCK ON…

        • #3221187

          Yes!

          by tomcotexas9 ·

          In reply to Old age…

          Especially when there are years of experience to back up the treachery.

        • #3221124

          Ah ha!

          by imagiosstudios ·

          In reply to Yes!

          add to that , years of treachery to back up the experience. Hell, we weren’t born old and wise after all!

      • #3221853

        same here

        by sprinkl3s ·

        In reply to I work WITH an older member of IT

        Last year when I was 21, I interviewed for a Network Admin position. I ended up getting a job there out of that interview, not for the Network Admin, but as a pc/network specialist. the guy that got hired for the network admin was close to his 50’s and had about 20 years experience. at first I wasn’t really sure about him and what he knew but as we got used to eachother we made a great team. his experience with my “new eyes” worked out great and we both learned a great deal from eachother. i learned AS400 he learned Exchange, along with a lot of other things, between the two of us there was no stopping us, if it had been only one of us there would of been a lot of problems.

        so I have to agree from my experience that the IT field needs the “old geezers” just as much as it needs the “whipper-snappers”

      • #3221684

        I AM an older member of IT

        by rwright142 ·

        In reply to I work WITH an older member of IT

        I’m 47 and have learned from the young’uns as well as having mentored them. With our field always changing, they sometimes explore areas that I do not have the time to. We banter back and forth but also share our knowledge and experiences. That helps us all.
        I do get the occasional kick out of telling one of them to replace the flux capacitor in the server…. hehehe

    • #3221657

      I remember when…

      by mumpsguy ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I was up for a position, and the only concerns the development team had about me was my age. I was 48 at the time. The problem wasn’t that I was too old, the problem was I would be the youngest on the team. Seems all those engineers had concerns about the new kid. Who can figure?

    • #3221654

      Gartner is Irresponsible

      by madtechgirl ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Gartner analysts are becoming continually irresponsible and they are showing that they are NOT the objective third party they are supposed to be. For a Gartner analyst to stand up in a conference and promote an attitude that old people can’t be handle the latest and greatest shows their lack of professionalism to say the least. I was incensed by the article and I’m glad this discussion is speaking out against that attitude. By the way these same “objective, no political bounds, etc.” people are trying coin a new word Biggle, combining BI with Google. If that isn’t promoting a particular vendor what is?

      • #3221615

        UK Ageism law

        by drace ·

        In reply to Gartner is Irresponsible

        Over here in the UK the law has recently changed and if a prospective employer infers that you are too old for a particular job which you are qualified for may find him or herself in a very vulnerable position.

      • #3221410

        Gartner = Poor Survey Construction & Bad Statistical Sampling

        by dr_zinj ·

        In reply to Gartner is Irresponsible

        Or so I surmise from their ‘report’.

        How about slapping them with a class-action suit for age discrimination on behalf of all the IT workers over 40 in America?

        You put baby boomers out of work now and you’ll destroy our already fragile social security, medicare, medicaid, unemployment, and a dozen other government programs, and probably precipitate a depression worse than the 1930s.

        The key to keeping older IT workers productive is to keep them in training on new tech and ideas. Send them to training classes on new software and hardware. More importantly, expand their viewpoints. Put them in seminars on business, not just IT. When you expose people to problems of WHAT needs to be done, they’ll start thinking of ways on HOW to do it with what they have down in the basement.

    • #3221600

      Shaking my greying head and laughing

      by old_it_crone ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      We all know who and what Gartner is. {shrugging}

      But I have to laugh when I think of complaints about the guys in the castle while we were sneaking pc parts through the loading dock to update the 8088’s to boot from hard drives and power color monitors.

      Was it the “white” castle? I can’t remember. My age is showing LOL

      They were the “old guys” back then.

      But I will tell you what burns my butt — interviewing an intern with “comupter experience and web savvy” only to find out that s/he can not only IM with the best of them – but build a great My Space page.

      Off to hunt my Geritol.

      • #3221592

        Can’t remember

        by vtassone ·

        In reply to Shaking my greying head and laughing

        Wasn’t there a quote…. Can’t remember who said it or the exact quote but it went something like, “I got here by standing on the shoulders of……” I’m having one of my “past 50” moments.

        To old to IT, to young to die. I think some one wrote a song about that.;-)

        • #3221562

          Isaac Newton

          by locolobo ·

          In reply to Can’t remember

          I think

        • #3221531

          I think your right

          by vtassone ·

          In reply to Isaac Newton

          I thought it was a Newton but all I could think of was “fig” LOL, another “over 50” moment…….

          to old to IT, to young to die

        • #3221207

          Newtons quote

          by nfhiggs ·

          In reply to I think your right

          “If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants”

          Paying hommage to the great minds that came before him.

        • #3221478

          No Albert Einstein

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Isaac Newton

          Isaac was one of the guys giving him a boost.

        • #3221356

          actually, St Bernard as sort of quoted by Newton

          by longwayoff ·

          In reply to No Albert Einstein

          According to wikipedia at
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_on_the_shoulders_of_giants
          The metaphor of dwarves standing on the shoulders of giants is first recorded in the twelfth century and attributed to Bernard of Chartres. It is often mistakenly attributed to the seventeenth-century scientist Isaac Newton…, as he famously remarked in a letter to his rival Robert Hooke dated February 5, 1676 that:
          “If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants.”

          Please to note that Newton was 44 when he wrote/published the Principia, and 61 when he wrote/published Opticks, so Gartner blew it there too – according to him, Newton was too old to do any of the things he actually did!

          At the end of the Wikipedia article cited above, there is also a note about On the Shoulders of Giants is a collection of works by the major scientists Nicolaus Copernicus, Galileo Galilei, Johannes Kepler, Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein, all compiled by Stephen Hawking. In his introduction, Hawking addresses Newton’s famous version of the quote above. which may be where the Einstein impression came from. As to Einstein, the famous 1935 Einstein, Podolsky, Rosen (EPR paradox) paper was published when he was 56.
          Gartner, Bah!

        • #3221906

          I think the song is…

          by rknrlkid ·

          In reply to Can’t remember

          “You’re not to o-o-old, for CO-BO-OL-OL-OL, but to young to die.”

          hehe 😉

          (Shameless parody of Jethro Tull’s “Too Old for Rock and Roll, Too Young To Die.” Of course simply knowing who Jethro Tull is identifies me as being old!)

        • #3221894

          Get in line

          by tig2 ·

          In reply to I think the song is…

          I not only know who Jethro Tull is, somewhere I OWN a copy of “Thick as a Brick” on vinyl.

          And a few others- completely missed by this generation.

          Gartner… bah, humbug!

        • #3221736

          I have a stack of vinyl

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Get in line

          almost seven feet wide and still play a good bit of it when I get in the mood…everything from Albinoni to Zappa.

          COBOL? THAT brings back memories, some of them good, like the first IT joke I ever heard:

          Q: How are your sister and COBOL alike?

          A: If either one misses a period, all hell breaks loose.

        • #3221123

          Jethro Tull

          by imagiosstudios ·

          In reply to Get in line

          And the youngers think that they invented leaping around in tights too! HA HA HA!

      • #3221494

        Who did they think started it all ? PC’s????

        by pj8089 ·

        In reply to Shaking my greying head and laughing

        When I started…. (many years ago)… My company would have NEVER started as early has we did.. if I hadn’t bought that IBM Computer that sat on a desk ! 64k of memory, NO harddisk, a flippy and that black screen with amber letters ! We went from that “1” to over 400 “pc’s” from DOS to WINDOWS ! And who taught them to use them ? Back then there was No one to ask for help ! No “old timers” ! lol

        • #3221874

          Fighting to get PCs through the door… and on and on…

          by jlrobins ·

          In reply to Who did they think started it all ? PC’s????

          This guy that is ‘too old’ fought to bring in the first PCs, spent years as the PC advocate, brought in Oracle (version 2!!!), set up the first networked PCs, managed the networks, left a job when a younger but incompetent person was given powers that kept screwing up the network, worked on a web ‘presentation and pay’ site before 2000 (w/ an Oracle DB backend), etc. Now, my task is to organize things to avoid code clobbering by the ‘creative’ young folk. Or to be sharp enough to take what the 20-somethings say sounds ‘phat’ (or whatever the latest buzz word is for ‘cool’) and help them turn it into something real, and really useful.

        • #3221253

          And don’t forget BASIC

          by hlhowell9 ·

          In reply to Who did they think started it all ? PC’s????

          You must be sure to include BASIC, because without BASIC you can’t program these new machines, just check out Microsoft VB code.

          Seriously now, My first experience was with a 1218, then a Z80 one board I built myslef, then the Z80SDK. I still have my Altair, and the original Altair 8080 processor board. Forget Assembly, you haven’t coded unless you can flip toggle switches and know binary machine code. OOPS, I am showing my Geezerhood now aren’t I? l8r 600D.

          OldETC.

    • #3221593

      Why does ANYONE pay attention to the Gardner Group ?

      by bharris09 ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      IT isn’t their business on a daily basis.

      They write about it and talk about it but in my 30+ years experience, they haven’t convinced me that they know squat about it.

      “Researching IT” doesn’t make you an expert, living it on a daily basis over a period of years, might….

      As far as saying us old folks can’t handle it, BS ! That proves my point, that they don’t know squat. Those young bucks come to us when they hit the wall with their “unsolvable” problems. Most likely, we have already been there, done that.

    • #3221561

      Those that do not study history are doomed to repeat it.

      by rclark2 ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      This is especially true when all computers are at the root of it all, collections of light switches. Hardware and software are two sides of the same coin.

      My first computer was a TI58C (102 programmable steps), and my first language was GMAP. I have programmed on Sperry Univacs 1050-II’s using nothing but hardware.

      I have programmed in DotNet (VB & C#) and program ASP with Notepad.

      I’m 48 (I think), and while the memory is going, it looks like it will outlast the rest of me.

      So Gartner, and any other 20 somethings, hear this: “History is there because it worked. Otherwise, we would be talking about something else. So next time remember that while you know what is out there today, so do we, and we remember how we got here if we need to rebuild it or switch horses.” By the way, I know which side of the horse to get on too.

    • #3221544

      Susieq

      by susieq1967 ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I’m an Old Broad, 58, and I just gratuated from College with 5, that is FIVE computer science degrees and I had no trouble set up and get my business running. So don’t sell us old geezers down and out!! We still have a lot of life left and a lot to teach the younger folks, if they would just shut up and listen.

      • #3221702

        [b]And Much More Importantly[/b]

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to Susieq

        We to have much more to learn so that we can keep up with that is happening in IT or at the very least that part of IT that we work in.

        I got a good laugh out of that article when they said look to your kids to see what is happening.

        When one of my kids breaks something they come running to me and my much younger nephews insist on screaming out [i]Call Uncle Col[/i] every time that anything breaks. According to them I can fix anything and am especially good at repairing light bulbs.

        OH the innocents of youth. :^0

        Col

    • #3221532

      The still come to me

      by don.haldeman ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I have been in the military for over 20 years now and I get the new guys coming up to me about the newest tech that they come across. Generally, they want my opinion about the tech and if I don’t know I can easily find out and pass along my opinion.

      Don

    • #3221525

      Telling them what they want to hear

      by sr10 ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Gartner is just telling its audience they have justification for what they already want to believe. The crowd wants to hire a bunch of energetic kids with visions of glory and without the political experience to push back.

      Make no mistake; I am not bashing people in their twenties. You are energetic and you are in touch with the latest technologies. But you will get used and thrown away, just like your predecessors were.

    • #3221520

      Where Did I Put Those Glasses

      by rtss ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I was going to reply and stick up for us older IT types but dammit I can’t find my glasses. Because I only hunt and peck 45 wpm I have to have those glasses or all the technology will change before I can correct the spelling and submit my 2.25 cents (it’s Canadian so I have to make up for exchange rates).

      This is nothing new, of course. The older the experience gets the more the enthusiasm of youth speaks up to try to get experience’s job.

      It’s laughable, of course. There is apparently no such thing as an objective 3rd party opinion….just 3rd parties that can discern between what attitudes will pay them well enough to keep them a 3rd party.

      That’s all I can type for now, I’m late for my geritol.

    • #3221491

      The Real Reason…

      by ashby ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      If you’ve had dealings with Gartner, you will know exactly why they don’t like “old timers”. It’s because the have the experience to recognise that the so called analyses that Gartner provide are not worth the King’s ransom they charge for them!

    • #3221446

      Gartner just stretching the facts to fit

      by sboverie ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I read the article and it starts off reasonably and starts bashing us geezers. I see what they are trying to say, they just say it badly and arrogantly. What the article seems to say is that IT is being held back by some old geezers who are not up to speed on the state of the art. This is true in part but it is a stretch to blame the problems on oldsters.

      I am 50, I have no trouble keeping up with technology. The computer industry has really changed in the past 30 years, the youngsters get to skip the early techniques we had to learn.

      This goes back to the time before personal computers, my boss from that time said he works on computers all day and why would he want to work on one when he got home. Computers at that time did fairly limited functions.

      To get into the industry 30 years ago, I had to know electronics thoroughly, because we had to chase the problem down to component level (transisters, capacitors and resistors), know Boolean algebra, be able to produce truth tables from a circuit and be able to read schematics.

      Does this mean that I am carrying baggage of outdated knowledge? I do not think so, mostly because some of the exciting changes are just another version of what we used to do years ago. I find that I have a better understanding about what is going on in the box than the kids who are coming out of college. I am actually coasting along, I do not have any problems keeping up with changes.

    • #3221385

      to twenty somethings

      by tonysr ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      just remember one of these days you will be an old geezer and a 20 something will tell you you’re to old.
      Been there and done that, now I’m getting it back.

    • #3221328

      All I can say is…GO BOOMERS GO!!!

      by techexec2 ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      All I can say is…GO BOOMERS GO!!!

      That’s what I like about TR. There are a lot of my age peers here.

      :^0

    • #3221997

      Old Geezers

      by codebubba ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      LOL!

      I guess I’m fortunate. I’m becoming one of those old “geezers” (at 48) – but I still like what I’m doing. Yeah, these 20-year-old hot-shots know all the buzzwords and all the new stuff – but I still find that (as always) I can still get more done than they can with some good old-fashioned DESIGN and front-end THINKING.

      The new tools are all very slick – but I still just keep things simple and get the results – that’s why they keep my old rotting bones around I guess!

      -CB 🙂

    • #3221970

      The real reason

      by 3xp3rt ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      The real reason of appearance of ?old IT guys don?t know new technology? is all IT profs have a good knowledge in one technology (and experience) what become at years past old technology. The younger IT profs come with new technology but they have no experience and not even good knowledge. The reason is very simple. Is no person in IT who know everything in one technology, this is impossible. So if someone working in one technology over 10 years, he accumulates a lot of experience and a good knowledge. So he can handle almost every problem in this technology quickly and most efficient like in one new technology. A younger colleague what say seeing this? His answer: This old guy doesn?t know the new technologies and he is very inefficient. So what?s your opinion about this scenario?

    • #3221967

      Still kickin ass, putin em in jail

      by wieczor8 ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      pips, anyone, took 2 yrs he’s in jail
      now.
      http://cigars.bravepages.com/pipsrpt.html
      Still doin cutting edge CI
      http://cigars.bravepages.com/head/Internet%20Surveillance.ppt#256,1,Internet%20Surveillance
      Tracking Terrorists
      http://sunbeltblog.blogspot.com/2006/10/terrorism-toolbar.html

      And alot of corporate work I can’t talk about

      tech republic even carries my CI toolbar.

      Hell the 20’s don’t even know where to start.
      Let alone keep up.
      Still working till 3 or 4 am daily.

      Gerald

    • #3221918

      Not all

      by trtjj ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I’m 40yr old IT director. I think there are few issues. Does the old geezer:
      -love to learn and use new technology?
      -love to get thier hands dirty?
      -keep a young mind, think about what would a 15-20 year old use all day? Remember this is what pushes new technology and fuels the business Culture for the new future employee.

      • #3221905

        If he’s forty then

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to Not all

        yes and he’s been in IT since his twenties, then the answer to all tehse questions is yes.

        The real qualification for IT is the beinginterested in answering technology questions starting with the word ‘How’

        Without that you’re going to be crap at it.

        At your age you should know that.

      • #3221889

        According to Gartner

        by tig2 ·

        In reply to Not all

        I’m a geezer (I turn 44 this week). A couple of points.

        Those of us who are in this profession becasue of a genuine love of technology and a sincere desire to see the new points of integration DO posess the qualities you list.

        Better than that, we came up at a time when there were few who (a) understood how it worked and (b) had the patience to MAKE it work when it broke.

        Moreover, we bring a work ethic to the table that is rare today. We have a very different agenda- we know that we are there to deliver results and that results don’t always happen between 8a and 5p.

        I think that generalising has little value. We all bring something to the table. Us fogies remember how to hold a network together with bailing wire and duct tape. The younger kids bring a new vision. Between us we can build great things.

        It comes down to valuing ALL the people available as opposed to prejudging them.

        • #3221810

          Old Broad, but not down or out!

          by susieq1967 ·

          In reply to According to Gartner

          I just graduated from college with 5 computer science degrees and started my own web design and computer repair business. By the way I’m 58 years old and doing quite well. So the younger kids don’t always have an advantage over us older folks. I had the resources or managerial experience to do what I am doing now. I worked in Food and Beverage for 30 years as a Manager and just got sick of the 80 hour weeks and crappy pay. Now I’m my own boss and just loving every minute of it. Technology Rocks!!!

        • #3221781

          Congratulations!

          by tig2 ·

          In reply to Old Broad, but not down or out!

          And here’s to us and all like us! In the words of Maecuff- we are all young and incredibly hot!

          You prove my point- life ends only when we let it. I plan to be learning new things until the day they plant whatever is left of me.

        • #3221756

          I think

          by tonythetiger ·

          In reply to Old Broad, but not down or out!

          interest and work ethic will take you farther, no matter your age.

        • #3221753

          Thanks, but I’m not done yet.

          by susieq1967 ·

          In reply to I think

          I am returning to school inj January to get my BS. Can’t wait. I’ll always try to stay one step ahead.

      • #3221862

        More to it than that

        by rhomp20029 ·

        In reply to Not all

        What good is pushing all the newsest technology unless the systems using them are validly thought through and actually have a business basis for their design. I can design you a great system using all the latest technology and it will have all the bells and whistles available but if it doesn’t meet the needs of the company what good is it. That is where the geezers are useful. They can bring to the table the reasons things are done as they are and the logic behind business practices. Then once these are discussed and the approach is taken that will handle the problem, then you can use all you new technology and business culture. Without a sound basis of usefulness all else is nothing but sound and fury signifying nothing. The young people need the seasoning of business practices before they are useful and if you get rid of the geezers you will have to suffer through their playing the game until they realize that they need to produce something useful. Right out of the box very few of them are capable of that.

        • #3221285

          Another factor for hiring younger folks and not that it is right,

          by susieq1967 ·

          In reply to More to it than that

          could be that coming right out of college with no experience to speak of, companies can hire them at the lowest pay scale. Where us older workers are being paid a higher pay scale. We cost them more money, so they try to justify getting rid of us, saying we can’t keep up with the newer technology, so anyway you look at it, we older folks have to keep up-dating our education so this doesn’t happen. We are never too old to learn something new. So my advice to everyone, go take a class or two. You will be suprised what you might learn. And I’m an old Broad, 58….

        • #3221015

          A basic math question.

          by nighthawk808 ·

          In reply to Another factor for hiring younger folks and not that it is right,

          What does the 1967 mean in your name? As far as I can tell, 2006-1967 != 58 in decimal or hexadecimal, so it must be something else.

        • #3220977

          It does

          by susieq1967 ·

          In reply to A basic math question.

          It’s just a nother year that was important in my other life, The year I left my abusive
          ex-husband, back then there were no laws to protect women like me, I walked away with nothing but my son and the cloths on our backs. Soyou could say that that year was a milestone for me. And I have gone on to try and help other womem that have had the same thing happen to them!

        • #3220592

          Good for you.

          by nighthawk808 ·

          In reply to It does

          I’m glad to hear that, and keep fighting the good fight!

        • #3220581

          Always

          by susieq1967 ·

          In reply to Good for you.

          Always have and always will. Too old to quit now!!!

    • #3221911

      Retired Geezer Geek

      by fredeppy ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Not all of us old geezers could not handle the job, even when IT was not our job. But now we sit happily on our mountain top out here in the Ozarks, and still doing ITs job. But now we do it for fun and only for friends. I worked at a Gov’t Manufacturing Plant and as with most gov’t jobs out IT Dept was understaffed and overloaded. There were 2 of us amatuer geeks in the Manufacturing Dept that IT would call in when they were overloaded with service tickets and we would check the situation out and either make a quick correction or tell IT what they needed to come out and handle. Both of us geezers were well over 50.
      Fred

      • #3221156

        Another retired (sort of) geek

        by dasec ·

        In reply to Retired Geezer Geek

        This old geezer started in mainframe computers at age 27, had his first PC (Apple) at age 41, started using the Internet with a LYNX browser at about age 50, helped implement Internet Banking using PKI at age 55, writes Windows Workstation Security Requirements at age 64 and is currently using Vista.

    • #3221901

      I feel your pain

      by kj7gs ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I don’t know how old you have to be in order to be a “geezer”, but it frustrates me to no end to be in my mid-40s and having to work for half an hour to get someone in my own age group up to speed on collaboration software that has about the simplest learning curve I’ve ever seen. Culture? Yes, I’m not a teenager with teenage likes and dislikes. I’m a mature person that exploits technology who tries to learn everything I can about it. Sometimes I can see how the younger set would be frustrated with us geezers, we do it to ourselves by refusing to learn about new things. With apologies to Napoleon Dynamite, Gosh! Gosh! Gosh!

      • #3221883

        Call it “generational differences”, not geezers must go

        by jlrobins ·

        In reply to I feel your pain

        Next week, we are going to have a hour or two of training on ‘generational differences and how it impacts the workplace’. The 20-somethings may pick up technology like a magnet does iron fillings… But many are about as organized as… I will just say, less organized than most of us 40(almost 50)-somethings were at that age. And that is the REAL issue. Gartner missed this one, big time. They are around because they usually have some accuracy/value to what they say. No one is perfect, though…. Not even us old folks…

    • #3221863

      Just because you’re young, doesn’t mean you’re with it!

      by tink! ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Youth does not guarantee an open door into the current trends or consumerisms. There are many who are young, but who are also clueless as to what’s hot and what’s not. So I don’t think any smart business should automatically categorize their thinking to young’uns being the only way to go to keep up with the times.

      The “old” guys/gals of IT are just as likely to know, hear, or be involved in the latest trends as a fresh face out of college, because of the fact that they will usually have connections with today’s youth through children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews and even friends or friends’ children.

      Plus the TV is a great way to find out what hot consumerisms are being pushed to the youth these days. (Parents know – kids want everything they see on TV that looks cool in a commercial)

      And of course, there’s always the “old” people who are really kids at heart and are buying into new trendy things…for themselves.

      As for myself, I’m somewhere in the middle, don’t think I’m “old” yet but I’m not really “young” either (I’m 30). But I have 3 personal connections to the youth world who will be living with me for at least another 10-13 years.

      Tink 🙂

    • #3221832

      What the bleep does Gartner know!

      by terry.fitzgerald ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I just implemented Documnetum at our company – rated as industry leader by Gartner – they obviously know nothing about document management systems so maybe their a little short of knowledge about us crinklies (I’m 62 – I work with mostly younger IT people – many of them are idiots – most of them cannot manage) Maybe gartner should do a study on that!

    • #3221767

      Same Old Rag

      by gsquared ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Yes! The perfect corporate solution is replace all experienced IT personnel, everyone who has learned the hard way to write good code, everyone who has ever been through a server crash and knows why you don’t turn off the AC in the data center, etc., with young college graduates who have degrees that say they know computing!

      Pefect!

      If what you’re trying to do is increase content submission to TheDailyWTF.com, it’s perfect anyway.

      I know! Let’s set a mandatory retirement age for IT at 25 years. Then we can certainly live in this guy’s delusional world where lack of experience is a good thing.

      • #3221698

        [b]Sorry that will not work[/b] :D

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to Same Old Rag

        As we live in an ageing population we are at some point in time going to run out of enough 20 + youngsters to go around so what will happen them?

        More importantly in the interim those 20 + are going to have to contribute far more of their income to pay us Unemployable Oldies who are not worth employing because we are so far over the hill that it’s not funny.

        I say bring it on with a mandatory Income for the over 30’s that will allow them to live a comfortable life style with all the [b]Fringe Benefits[/b] being paid for by those youngsters who know it all. :^0

        I honestly could do with a break from all the hard work that I have to do and I would really like to have a Holiday once in my working life that doesn’t involve a Hospital stay. 😀

        Col ]:)

        • #3221260

          Could Work

          by gsquared ·

          In reply to [b]Sorry that will not work[/b] :D

          All that would be required is hiring people below 20. If youth is an advantage in IT, we should hire more 6-year-olds!

          Just think of the advantages! If a 60-something is bad for IT, a 50-something is not as bad, a 40-something is not good, a 30-something is okay and a 20-something is actually good, then a teenager should be awesome and a child should be incredible and an infant should be unbelievably great.

          Maybe I’m not thinking this through enough… I know! If young makes for better IT, we need to invent keyboards and mice for prenatals!

          (Seriously though, assuming that “young coolness” is any sort of substitute for experience is just stupid.)

        • #3221071

          I have to agree

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Could Work

          Once Upon a Time I read a Road Safety Report that relied totally on Sasticits and it proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that all major collisions happen between 20 MPH and 95 MPH and the number of fatals and serious collisions that happen below 10 MPH and above 180 MPH where next to nothing so the solution was easy Make all speeds between 10 MPH and 185 MPH Illegal!

          They realized that any incident that occurred above 185 MPH was most likely going to be fatal so you could save masses of money on Police Cars to chase down speeders you could give them push bikes, the Hospitals wouldn’t require so many specialized Beds and staff to look after Road Trauma so the costs would be better cut there and the Ambulance service wouldn’t need all the specialized equipment for Road Collisions or Incidents so there would be a massive saving there as well.

          I just couldn’t help myself I submitted that article to a Road Safety Conference and also at the time asked why they where using a 1960 Anti Drug Campaign to promote Road Safety. I still get a laugh every time I hard the words [b]Speed Kills[/b] I expect to actually hear someone like Neil from the Young Ones saying [b]Speed Kills Man![/b] As a message not to drop any acid not to prevent speeding. 😀

          Col

    • #3221739

      No different than your attitude is it?

      by oz_media ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      You scoff at the stereotype of old fuddy duddies in IT.
      I agree it’s a stupid comment to begin with.

      But yuo trun around and show yourself to be absolutely NO different with oyur own reply.

      You INSTANTLY stereotype younger IT staff.

      “Wow! I’m sure those whippersnappers will be doing us all a favor by replacing our mainframes with a trillion records with windows systems where individual files have a 2 gig size limit.”

      Now you are callign then WHIPPERSNAPPERS, just as they see you as an old geezer.

      Yuo also insist that theri Windows knowledge is limited and that your own is far superior.

      So tell me, DJ, what was the point of your post? hypocrisy? A ‘me too’ kinda thing?

      Or are you just a grumpy old geezer?

    • #3221697

      [b]Gartner is RIGHT! Old Geezers can’t handle IT![/b]

      by hal 9000 ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      But not in the way that they are implying in the article.

      [i]And the message coming from Gartner Inc. analysts today is that youth matters more than ever in IT, especially as the Web becomes more interactive and collaborative and heads in directions that Baby Boomer-aged IT managers may be ill equipped to lead.[/i]

      This is perfectly correct but it doesn’t apply to the techs who hold things together but to the people named in the introduction who are responsible for holding Technology back Bill Gates Particularly & Partially Steve Jobs.

      After all just how long have there been perfectly good 64 Bit hardware systems around with no software to run on them?

      [i]Gartner analysts told the 6,000-plus attendees that companies poised for future growth will be clued into the so-called consumerization of IT, a catch-all term covering the mobile, customizable and heavily interactive technologies those in their 20s now seem to expect.[/i]

      Read correctly as [b]Open Source[/b] none of this Propriety junk that is holding back Technological advancement.

      [i]Contrast that to senior IT managers, who are likely a “middle aged, sedan-driving, middle income, middle class, middle-of-the-road, midlife-crisis, mid-sized managers from the Midwest, who carry a little bit too much weight around their middles,”[/i]

      Which reads as [b]Responsible[/b] and unlikely to kill themselves at the first opportunity given them.

      [i]And if being called overweight so soon after breakfast wasn’t bad enough, Raskino urged the boomers on hand to plan for their exit. “Plan for succession — what you need to find, what you need to nurture is fresh talent — and that talent will be multiskilled, multidisciplined … and it will take on new roles.”[/i]

      Which reads as Promote the people who Know and not the Brown Noses who constantly agree with your ideas.

      [i]Raskino said Gartner is dubbing this next generation of IT professionals “versatilists.”[/i]

      This means nothing more that it says they have to do a bit of everything sound familiar?

      [i]Terry Epp, senior development manager at the Bank of Montreal, agreed with Gartner analysts about the consumerization of IT and said it’s prevalent in financial services with online banking and trading.[/i]

      Reads as we are not responsible for the problems it’s your fault! We quite often loose your money but it’s not our fault. Look at all the young Rouge Traders that there places put out and wonder how these places stay afloat. They are Banks and who’s heard of a Bank going broke recently when they are all making obscene profits and still loosing money hand over fist and paying their Senior members of their Boards outlandish Bonuses that would keep most small third world countries in food for a year.

      [i]”This is not just about technology, first and foremost, it’s about culture — it’s about cultural change,” said Bittman, adding that “although this is probably discriminatory, there is a different attitude, at different ages, based on what technology can provide.”[/i]

      Dam right it’s not just about technology what it’s really about is how to integrate Technology into Business in a cost effect manner that will work out best for the company. Nothing else matters here.

      Unfortunately the new crowd are not taught what’s good for business but only the technology so they all lack the knowledge on how to achieve this without spending years of being supervised and taught how to do things that are in the companies best interests.

      Over all I have to say [b]An Excellent Article[/b] that has drawn the wrong outcomes from the existing available evidence. To put it simply [b]They messed up the Output and Haven’t as yet realised.[/b] 😀

      Col

      • #3221303

        How old were the Gartner report writer(s) ?

        by cgcservices ·

        In reply to [b]Gartner is RIGHT! Old Geezers can’t handle IT![/b]

        I’ve been in this field for 30 years. It’s gone from EDP to ADP to IS to IT. The current name seems to focus on the physical side. I liked it better when it was IS – an emphasis on SERIVCES. What the ‘youngsters’ don’t seem to realize is that businesses are there to make a profit and a good share of the new tech stuff is just bells and whistles on previous concepts. Stay with simple, and reliable. Serves the customers, the business, and even yourself the best – EVERYONE wins !!! Remember – IT is a COST center – we make a business no money directly, we just spend it!

        • #3221081

          But that just the point at Gartner

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to How old were the Gartner report writer(s) ?

          What exactly are they selling?

          Answer [b]Bugger ALL![/b]

          who is writing this trash?

          Answer [b]The Youngsters who know no better![/b]

          But I still maintain that they have got the overall thing right we need to remove people like Bill Gates from the Technology Equation as he is one person holding back the flood of technology with his Monopolistic Empire. IT needs to be a commodity not a means of making Obscene amounts of money for a few at the expense of everyone else. That’s what is currently happening and it’s [b]WRONG![/b]

          Granted the Kids have got it all wrong and their supposed results are wrong as well but the over all data is right and the ideas need to be worked on IT is a cost for all Business not a means to make money the Dot Com Bubble proved that if nothing else. There are very few people that make money out of technology directly but everyone makes money out of what that technology produces.

          So we need to make the cost of IT cheaper so dump MS and have a real OS that actually works and is Secure unlike the current generation of trash that we now have. Teach the students how to work an OS instead of this [b]Point & Click Junk[/b] that teaches nothing.

          I moved from Mainframes to PC’s a long time ago and I’ve yet to see the same level of operability as what we had so long ago and I’ll not even bother to mention the security issues that are tantamount to Extortion from MS in their offerings, things like that would have been thrown straight into the garbage where it belonged if they had of tried to push that junk down out thoughts a short while ago.

          All Windows has done is [b]Dumb Down[/b] the user and nothing else.

          Col

        • #3221080

          Cost Centre?

          by notnerb ·

          In reply to How old were the Gartner report writer(s) ?

          IT as a COST centre? Maybe this is what Gartner is getting at. IT can be viewed as a cost centre, or it can be viewed as a VALUE centre. If it’s just a cost centre, why not turn off all the boxes and go home? Because all that humming technology is what keeps the business going nowadays.
          The secret is to identify the value that is being added by IT and promote it. That’s the sort of ‘glass-half-full’ mentality that is being promoted by the more business-focussed colleges today. It’s also what is in the heads of the 20-somethings, although they are a bit inexperienced to articulate it properly.
          It’s the ‘old geezers’ with their glass-half-empty ‘it’s only a cost centre’ attitudes that ensure that IT remains a millstone around many businesses necks, instead of actively seeking value and culling the valueless. Maybe we should start with those who say ‘it’s only a cost centre’…

        • #3221079

          Now don’t get me started with the Bean Counters

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Cost Centre?

          I’ve walked away from so many places once a Bean Counter was put in charge. Every one has been when I started there an Industry Leader in it’s field run by engineers for the customer to gain a benefit out of and make money from with [b]Service to Burn.[/b]

          What happens when the Bean Counters move in they want to cut back the Service Staff who they see as a cost but don’t look at the income that they produce they can only see the wages that they are paying them and that it. The very first time that the company had a been Counter Appointed to run the show I tried very hard to keep the place going and the more that they cut back on the Service Staff the more that their Sales Fell and that meant that they couldn’t afford the existing service staff who where actually the ones driving sales. That was a Hard Messy Lesson that I never intend to go through Ever Again and while I was working Big Business I would Immediately Resign the moment that a Been Counter was appointed to run the show as I just knew that they where going to send the place broke while awarding themselves Obscene Bonuses in the process.

          So far I’ve been right in every case but 1 I told the new Guy that it would take him 5 years to destroy the company it only took him 2.

          Col

      • #3220585

        Corp Expect a Return on Investment

        by jerome.koch ·

        In reply to [b]Gartner is RIGHT! Old Geezers can’t handle IT![/b]

        Interactive technologies are most famously on display in the media market(s), and offer most enterprises little value. Since the dot com daze, CEOs and CFOs have been adamant in protecting thier cash flows- hence they demand real returns on thier IT investments. Many of these interactive technologies also create huge security headaches. The costs can be huge.

        Banking, equity trades, and B2B biz can take advantage of the newer technologies the quickest, but in many cases firms outsource these skills to large, established IT services firms.

        What Gartner fails to realize, or just plain ignores, is the new enviorment (or old one) where IT is treated like any other service within an organization. Things like email, web services, ERP systems, IM, etc… must show real value to the bottom line. Whether one goes to open source or not is not important.

        Many in IT think the CFO should subsidize thier pet projects for no other reason than that project is cutting edge.

        • #3220559

          But what cutting edge technologies have emerged

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Corp Expect a Return on Investment

          In recent times?

          We have had 64 Bit CPU’s available for at least 3 years without a mainstream OS capable of running on one of them in a usable manner. AMD has had the 64 Bit Athlons around for quite some time now and even Intel has had the Italums around and they where a none issue once they went with the EMT Architecture.

          The main problem here isn’t cutting edge or even Bleeding Edge there is nothing in the Desktop OS market for the mainstream that is currently workable and available.

          What is the only possible explanation for this? The main Market Leader for OS’s has dropped the ball and forgotten about 64 Bit computing which would make Data Processing Faster & Cheaper to accomplish what other possibility is there to this question?

          I agree that the IT Section shouldn’t be padded out at the expense of other areas but by the same token you have to take into account the benefit’s of what the IT section of any business allows to happen. Would you prefer pools of typists again? You might if you where a typist or an accountant who have lost their jobs because of IT but I don’t think that very many others will think that way.

          As far as Open Source goes what other alternative have we got? MS has by now proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that they are at best followers of technology and never leaders so why should business continue supporting them so much at the expense of overall efficiency and productivity?

          Just how much do you really think that 8 to 10 year old technology in the form of an OS is actually costing business? Look at XP really it’s nothing more than a development of NT3 and not a very good one at that though the [b]Eye Candy[/b] is better but what else makes XP stand out from NT3?

          This isn’t bashing MS although at the moment I feel like it but for other reasons but just how is XP that much better than NT when you really look at the core way that things work?

          The average worker is still using what effectively is [b]Old Technology[/b] no matter how much the hardware has improved it’s still held back by the available software to run that hardware to it’s full potential. What we are currently doing is making the best possible engine for a F1 car and then disconnecting several cylinders as we can not use them so the thing is slower and far less powerful that what it has the possibility to be. The end result is that this is costing companies money that could be better spent elsewhere.

          Currently with the way that the Tax Cycle works we are seeing new generation Hardware being driven by Old Generation Software slower than what it is capable of running at and at less than 50% capacity. Now how in any shape or form can that be justified in any business other than Government where money is no object?

          What exactly is the benefit of XP over NT? Sure the graphics are way better and look excellent for games but is this important for work? Does a Word Document look any better for this improvement in graphic output? Are Pivot Tables any the better for this major improvement in graphic capability?

          Personally I don’t care where the platforms come from they can come from MS for all I care but at the moment that just hasn’t happened so don’t we all need to give MS the [b]Big Kick In The But That They Deserve & Get What is Required from Whoever has it?[/b]

          Currently the way that things are going is that MS is holding back business in its attempts to earn money and charging them dearly for the privilege. Why should we continue to support MS when they have clearly shown no desire to help their users?

          If a bunch of unpaid scripters can come up with a complete 64 Bit System in their backyards why can not MS with the resources at it’s disposal do the same thing? And in a far shorter time frame!

          As it currently stands we have no 64 Bit platform to run on the desktop when at the same time the Chip Makers are talking about 128 Bit CPU’s becoming available in the not to distant future so what are we going to do when these hit the streets? I hope not run 32 Bit OS’s and Applications on them as that is a waste of both time & money.

          Col

        • #3220501

          That about sums it up.

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to But what cutting edge technologies have emerged

          I sure can’t add to that. well put Col. -d

        • #3222298

          This Article cropped up today

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Corp Expect a Return on Investment

          http://tinyurl.com/y422ad

          Seems that AMD have now officially announced their Quad Core CPU and if you actually read the article these are 128 Bit compatible.

          Now maybe I’m mistaken but in an environment where the 64 Bit CPU’s are not being taken advantage of and with the soon to be introduced 128 Bit CPU’s isn’t the Software side of the business falling further & further behind the Technological Leaders?

          When these new CPU’s hit the streets in any numbers will it be acceptable to spend all that money on something that the current software can at best only hope to drive to 25% of it’s available capacity? Maybe I’m one of those [b]Old Farts[/b] but to me it seems that it’s the Software Side of the Industry that is holding back advancement so we are stuck in a rut that there is no way of getting out of in the foreseeable future.

          Now Business has to replace hardware on a regular basis because of the existing Tax Cycle so that after 4 – 5 years that hardware that is currently in place starts to cost the company money instead of being a Tax Break and a form of income to allow less Tax to be paid. Why should we be replacing this perfectly good hardware with even better hardware that is being underutilized even more than the stuff that it replaced?

          Now to me that is a massive waste of money and potential resources that could actually be doing something better for business.

          Personally I don’t care if the software comes from Microsoft XYZ Software suppliers or anyone else but we need workable 64 Bit Software [b]NOW![/b] Not is several years time when all the current hardware is no longer just 64 Bit compatible but has moved to 128 Bit and the 256 Bit is under development.

          MS has lost the plot here buy becoming exactly what it fought against at it’s very beginning, instead of being [b]Lean & Mean[/b] that had the ability to rapidly change track as the technology developed they have become everything that they where fighting a Massive outfit that [b]Can Not[/b] change quickly or alter their existing products to change with the times as the new technology evolves.

          It’s now time for us to see the start of MS’s replacement to be poking it’s head up to take advantage of everything that MS is now incapable of doing. That may be Ubuntu as they seem to have the right idea but if they are successful they will eventually become like MS and be slow to respond to changes in technology and then it will be time for their replacement just like MS was replaced when they could no longer keep up with the Technologically Advances that are occurring.

          IBM went with Open Architecture to make the PC and that lead to what we now know as the current generation of PC’s. If IBM had of gone the Apple route I don’t believe that we would be in the position that we are today and computer development just wouldn’t exist. It’s competition that drives development and advances not some massive Monopolistic company who has no competition and sits on it’s hands hoping that no one will notice just how Lazy they actually are.

          MS’s success is the very reason that they will be replaced they have become everything that they where fighting when Bill & Steve originally started out marketing software in direct competition to the then likes of Lotus, Word Perfect and the other then Market Leaders. These companies had done the exact same thing to those that came before them so there is nothing new it’s just an evolution of business.

          Surely you must see a pattern here and MS is only the latest development of it.

          Col

    • #3221695

      Don’t Bother

      by thedavestretch ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Maybe he can’t handle people. Don’t bother getting worked up about this. it’s onl worth it if you value his opinion. and I don’t.

    • #3221690

      I write for all of the major report companies….

      by bjdtis ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      and guess what? I’m a “geezer,” and at least twice as savvy as the article writer. It isn’t an official Gartner position. It’s an official idiot position!

      • #3221287

        All generalizations are bad….

        by mrs1622 ·

        In reply to I write for all of the major report companies….

        Doesn’t take much of a brain to know that this is a useless generalization. The best IT organizations will be made up of creative, hard-working, team-oriented, smart individuals of all ages. The risk at any age is that you’ll be unwilling or unable to learn from others.

    • #3221688

      Oh Pleeeeease

      by phd_oz ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      O.K. so i don’t pull allnighters sucking “enegery drinks” on the obsession of the moment creating bloated swiss cheese code from hell! yup I is OLD (47).
      Perhaps it would be more productive to blend a mix of age groups and backgrounds as I still can teach a young pup a thing or two and be taught by that pup also! Hey perhaps as a team we can avoid reinventing the wheel and git ‘r done faster, better mo harder.

      ps I was a young pup once and was of the opinio that the old f@#$ should retire – thank god they did not untill I learned from their experience.

      • #3221293

        Of course you don’t

        by nicknielsen ·

        In reply to Oh Pleeeeease

        [i]O.K. so i don’t pull allnighters sucking “enegery drinks” on the obsession of the moment creating bloated swiss cheese code from hell![/i]

        You don’t have to. You’re using the collected snippets of code you’ve written over the years to build a compact solid program.

        Who cares if you originally wrote that subroutine in 5 lines using Pascal? It ports to everything.

    • #3221685

      Simple little souls

      by derekshields ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Aren’t those youngsters sweet? The only problem is that they believe that everything is so simple and monopolar. Everything is either good or bad. We oldsters get by with massive ability to cope with ambiguity and the unfamiliar and have been doing so for years (26 years IT experience in my case). Still that’s what growing up’s about.

      • #3221675

        this all sounds SO familiar…

        by mikemajor3 ·

        In reply to Simple little souls

        …and then I realize that I was a young whippersnapper once, and didn’t have a clue what my dad was bitching about then. Now I’m the geezer, and realize that what has saved my ass, again and again, is a work ethic and a willingness to do “what it takes”… no “paycheck for a pulse”…which I learned from my dad… eventually LOL

        • #3221238

          every generation thinks those in charge should move over….

          by beoweolf ·

          In reply to this all sounds SO familiar…

          The roof caves in and they wonder why. I frequent a number of Help forums…I do so infrequently, as after a point I find discouragement sets in when the same question follows the exact answer, 2 or 3 times in the same day or week.

          I think that is the big divide; seems new techs see nothing wrong with asking questions, no matter how basic. Veteran techs think a book, manual or some form of research should be consulted first. It was a matter of competence to be able to carry you own weight. If you can’t find the answer yourself, then ask for help.

          The ability to accumulate knowledge and diagnose problems from knowing the systems has been replaced with the idea that if it breaks, lets replace it with something else – “maybe” that will work better!

          Characterizing new techs vs veteran techs is an incomplete, loose stereotype; yes, certainly it is, but it is not entirely inaccurate. The idea of “fixing” things has become degraded as has the idea of maintenance. So why shouldn’t the hiring process? Good enough is good enough, since the next whiz bang version is just about ready to be shipped anyway.

          Don?t believe my observation is correct? Then spend a few days in any of the ?Help? forums ? see where the level of requests for assistance generally fall, note the frequency of similar, queries and ask yourself if that is the result of professional level confusion, or an indication of “energetic”, creative juices flowing and building your infrastructure.

    • #3221282

      Lies, Damn lies, and Statistics

      by john.lovrinic ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      There is an old saying about lies, damn lies and statistics (going from bad to worse).

      Analysts like Gartner work off of statistics, and usually they don’t know anything about what their analyzing anyway, having never successfully worked in the field (meaning never closer to hands-on than as a project manager or auditor).

      So they don’t really know ops, development, etc. and what is relevant except what their ivory tower professors taught them (who usually were 20 years behind things if they knew anything at all in the first place, not to mention being connected to reality).

      So they don’t even know how to phrase a question much less know if it is valid.

      Given that, what we have is the blind leading the blind. And the worst of it is that they choose to be that way!

      • #3221275

        Remember this when you see the “Polls”

        by hlhowell9 ·

        In reply to Lies, Damn lies, and Statistics

        The real problem is that they are taught how to ask the questions to get the answers they want. Not the scientific method, but a process that simply validates their beliefs. The polls they run, the questions they ask don’t give them the real picture because they don’t want to listen to any criticism, and refuse to believe any reality that doesn’t match their expectations.
        In the cave man era, that meant that if they built a spear out of reeds, they got offed. Today they get promoted (Thank you Peter Drucker). But one way or another they more or less disappear from the technical gene pool and the race moves forward. On the other hand, if they made that reed spear, and used it on a chipmunk, they learned it didn’t penetrate, and added information to the species by telling others. This is education, and we should use it more today. (had to delete the tangent here).

        Those of us that have been around ahve our own “reed spears” in the closet, and if you become a confidente, perhaps we will show you and tell you how that spear changed what we did. Then we are educating the next generation of “Geezers” vs letting them drift into the morass of Web Users.

        OldETC

      • #3221077

        Do you remember the old phrase?

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to Lies, Damn lies, and Statistics

        [b]Those that Can Do and those that can’t Teach.[/b]

        It’s exactly the same here as it’s these kids taught by failures in their trade who are the up & coming people.

        [b]God Help Us All![/b] 😀

        Col

        • #3221014

          You left out the third part.

          by nighthawk808 ·

          In reply to Do you remember the old phrase?

          “Those that can’t do either, manage.”

        • #3220572

          Well as we have plenty of Management Types here on TR

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to You left out the third part.

          I was trying to be nice for a change. :p

          Hold on I was Management all though my working life but I only managed Service Departments mostly for the IT industry so that doesn’t really count as I was always fighting the good fight against them attempting to strip away my techs rights and privileges and winning most of the time. 😀

          I really think that the best one happened in 1974 back after a small incident here a slight amount of water penetrated the entire city and covered quite a lot of it under up to 40 feet in places. After we had slaved our guts out getting business up and running with new hardware some brain dead accountant had the audacity to complain that I had thrown a party for my staff in the workshop, [b]Bloody Moron[/b] and then they complained about the cost of fuel that had been used in the few months when we where running around fitting new hardware as it became available. If I remember correctly we got done in a few months what was supposed to take well over a year to complete and all they had to complain about was the fuel that was burnt running around fitting Millions of $ in new hardware all of which was covered by insurance.

          I was even nice and allocated a couple of people to replacing our own mainframe back then so that they could invoice out everything that we where using. After that idiot came down complaining I suggested that I could pull out the replaced mainframe and give it to someone who would appreciate it as now there was no need for any accountants because there was nothing left to sell. 😀

          My guys where working 24/7 for weeks at a time and these Idjots where not even at work, they where home sitting on their backsides complaining about all the damage and inconvenience to them. X-(

          Col

    • #3221281

      My Big Theory

      by coyotenm ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I’ve been a LAN administrator in a fairly small groups, so I do the tech support, too. I have formed a theory over years of observation (yes, I’m a geezer, and still going strong): Technical ability has nothing to do with age, it has to do with your brain wiring. I see college kids that can’t do shit on a computer and don’t like them, and I see old folks who catch on right away and love the tech. Of course there are seniors who never catch on and kids who are whizzes. Most people of any age who use computers are somewhere in-between. But the interesting thing is that the proportion of tech vs non-tech seems to be about the same for all age groups. Schools and parents urge kids to learn computers, just like we use to have to learn to type. Some barely get competent, and some become professionals. It’s all in how your brain is wired.

    • #3221271

      An email from a company reputed to be a top employeer

      by norm ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      A while ago one of the countries top employers HR head sent the following email to me to justify her suggestion also sent in an email that I was too old to be allowed to work for them, when challenged she responded with
      ?Looking at your resume, your xx years in management as well as xx
      years indicated that you might be considering winding your career
      down. I can assure you that we do receive many resumes of just such
      talented and experienced people. Unfortunately, in a key position like
      zzzz, we hope to acquire and keep our staff for a long period of time.
      Our business is complex and the learning curve quite steep as well as
      requiring long hours on the part of our employees.?.
      Loosely translated old people are stupid and lazy

      After investigating I came to the conclusion that the company liked to hire people as young as possible because someone just starting out on their career may be more willing to work extra hours without pay and start at a low base wage an equally inappropriate position to refusing to hire people because they were too old. This same company also complains they can not find people with experience ? difficult to have acquired a depth of experience while one is still in their 20s
      This multinational company was prepared to spend thousands of dollars to defend their right to discriminate based on age.

      • #3221248

        Which is why you should always avoid HR …

        by psinger1 ·

        In reply to An email from a company reputed to be a top employeer

        Especially with multinational companies.

        At their best, HR overanalyzes job categories, and comes up with an “expected career path”. Anybody who goes into slot A is expected to be willing and able to follow the career path. After a certain age, a person can no longer be expected to last the entire career path. Hence, said persons cannnot be considered for the slot.

        More nefareous companies simply use this as excuse to engage in age discrimination.

        [Clueless companies (the ones who pay attention to what Gartner says) simply engage in age discrimination, on the grounds that since everyone else is doing it it must be the right thing to do]

        But I digress. Coming up with reasons why H.R.’s policy is wrong is all for naught. H.R. has never brought in a dollar of revenue for any company (body shops being the exception, but you weren’t interested in them in the first place). Go talk directly to the hiring manager. Show him or her how you are going to solve all of his or her’s problem. Then let the manager deal with H.R.

        • #3221243

          It scares me to think what would happen if HR ran companies

          by norm ·

          In reply to Which is why you should always avoid HR …

          After digging into the company a little further I found the youth culture was actually actively promoted within the company and the manager of the section was also blinded by the looking for a 25 year old with 30 years experience attitude. The attitude is radiated from the CEO on down the company.
          The really strange part about the whole episode is the HR person was over 50 and had experienced age discrimination themselves.

        • #3221173

          Body Shops?

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to Which is why you should always avoid HR …

          as in auto repair?
          Totally correct on the HR observation, they tend to think way too highly of themselves.

        • #3222253

          A Good Def Is Hard To Find!

          by psinger1 ·

          In reply to Body Shops?

          I didn’t thing this would be so difficult to find, but after 20 minutes I decided to write one myself.

          The function (product?) of any consulting firm is to provide a client with people who can do what the client is paying for. A good firm wants to have a collection of good people who can do many things for many clients. Ideally, companies come to them because they have a reputation for being able to provide the services desired, and whoever gets billed out will be able to do that. This sort of firm is probably what the uninitiated thinks of when (s)he thinks “consultant”.

          A “Body Shop” is a common slang term in the computer consulting trade, for a firm who specializes in placing warm bodies and little else. Since the quality of the body does not matter, they can place the first person who is remotely qualified for the position. Given a choice between two candidates, one of who is distinctly more skilled, and a second who will work for less, they will always take the second. They work a lot with major employers, who use a lot of contractors with blanket rates (1 rate for all, regardless of experience or talent).

          Because the expectations are so low, people rarely try to make a career with body shops. For their part, body shops rarely try to engage in career building.

          The worst ones can be counted on to find some reason to keep your last paycheck.

          Ask around, I’m sure you will find plenty of folks who can expand on this.

      • #3221223

        Reminds me

        by brokeneagle ·

        In reply to An email from a company reputed to be a top employeer

        Reminds me of when I was looking for job about a decade ago a headhunter told me that Nokia wouldn’t interview me and another candidate he submitted because we “were too experienced.” I could have sued, but decided it wasn’t worth the hassle, since if they offered me a job to stop the lawsuit I wouldn’t take it.

        Instead I just refuse to buy any Nokia product. The plant closed two years ago and whenever I drive by I smile knowing I did my small part.

        • #3221186

          Forget lawsuits…call the media and give them negative publicity hell!

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to Reminds me

          Believe me, you don’t have to sue them. Simply getting the media involved and exposing them for the EEOC violators they are, the state’s attorney general will be so far up their ass that they will wish they never made that assinine comment to you about “too much experience”. The media will have a field day with this and expect to see demonstrations from AARP and other labor lobbyists in front of this company’s office. They are willing to spend thousands? Good, let them spend their money defending their idiotic illegal practices when the state AG files a suit against them and when their company is in the media spotlight for discriminating against older workers.

          Ain’t democracy grand?

        • #3221183

          The media is afraid to publish examples of Age discrimination

          by norm ·

          In reply to Forget lawsuits…call the media and give them negative publicity hell!

          The media will not publish examples of age discrimination – many media outlets do it too.

        • #3221180

          So call the state AG directly and let them deal with it

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to The media is afraid to publish examples of Age discrimination

          Believe me, the state AG will salivate at the opportunity to nail these scumbags.

        • #3221115

          AG department not interested

          by norm ·

          In reply to So call the state AG directly and let them deal with it

          The matter was turnd over to a Human Rights Tribuanl ( a quasi judicial body). If the AG got involved the the official excuse is they would be invoolved in a private matter between a citisen and a private company. The current government is an ultra pro bmega business bent and really are not interested in the plight of the little people.

    • #3221252

      Gene Hall (Gartner)’s world view

      by helpusobiwan ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I was amused to read the Gartner CEO’s Gene Hall remarks on the state of age in relation to IT … of course I couldn’t help but note that Gartner’s forte is service; ergo they don’t really add any value to your product, they just support the infrastructure [save it: I am well aware of the current paradigm in regard to how the web is the new product]. And how can they do that cheaper than your own folks? Well, older experienced folks on your staff usually think they should get a little respect (including a pension and a bonus once in a while) for their years of faithful service. Here comes Gartner with his kids that will work cheap (ie, without the usual pension and bonus) because they expect to be “mobile” and able to “express themselves in non-tangible meaningful ways like sky-diving or mountain-climbing” (hopefully they live long enough to finish your project). Of course he can undercut the in-house staff. His kids have no expectation of a long engagement; they’ll more than likely be bored of you within months and want to move on anyhow leaving you to deal with yet another kid who’s still trying to find himself while solving your business problems. Harsh, dude? Well, yeah! What did you expect from an old dude anyhow … pink spectacles?

      P.S. I don’t understand the Trek bashing part though … Jean Luc didn’t hate babies (they just made him uncomfortable as he had little experience with them) … and Kirk was just doing what all decent swashbuckling captains of yesteryear did, womanized at every opportunity; or are we forgetting the storied exploits of members of the armed forces away from home (ie, the stuff of legends, eh)? What branch of the service were you in? 😉

      • #3221174

        Army/Navy

        by dawgit ·

        In reply to Gene Hall (Gartner)’s world view

        (US) actually, yes both, and I was the ‘old’ guy at that. These ‘new’ generation kids couldn’t keep up then, and they can’t catch up now. I had the ‘old’ hands teach me, and they did a good job. (I listened.!.)

    • #3221237

      There is a difference in veteran vs. new tech working/learning styles…

      by beoweolf ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      The roof caves in and they wonder why. I frequent a number of Help forums…I do so infrequently, as after a point I find discouragement sets in when the same question follows the exact answer, 2 or 3 times in the same day or week.

      I think that is the big divide; seems new techs see nothing wrong with asking questions, no matter how basic. Veteran techs think a book, manual or some form of research should be consulted first. It was a matter of competence to be able to carry you own weight. If you can’t find the answer yourself, then ask for help.

      The ability to accumulate knowledge and diagnose problems from knowing the systems has been replaced with the idea that if it breaks, lets replace it with something else – “maybe” that will work better!

      Characterizing new techs vs veteran techs is an incomplete, loose stereotype; yes, certainly it is, but it is not entirely inaccurate. The idea of “fixing” things has become degraded as has the idea of maintenance. So why shouldn’t the hiring process? Good enough is good enough, since the next whiz bang version is just about ready to be shipped anyway.

      Don?t believe my observation is correct? Then spend a few days in any of the ?Help? forums ? see where the level of requests for assistance generally fall, note the frequency of similar, queries and ask yourself if that is the result of professional level confusion, or an indication of “energetic”, creative juices flowing and building your infrastructure.

    • #3221233

      hmmmm…….

      by geezah ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Interesting. I was telling the old gasbag the other day that the day of the 12 year old computer genius was long gone. Seems none of my 10 grandchildren know squat about computers and aren’t willing to learn (well, there’s one who probably will but she’s young yet).Many of my old decrepit

      Wonder who’ll fix all the computers now.

      Personally, I don’t see why everthing allways has to be a contest or adversarial situation. Incompetence knows no age or gender or “class” or “cultural” boundaries.

      my 2?

    • #3221230

      Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      by m_mehta52 ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      How very unfortunate that it is because of old geezers only that IT has come up to this stage. They may be slow on the off take, but once grasped the nitty-gritty, they are as good as anywhippersnappes. It is the agility of the mind which requires to be honed. Skill sets learning is an ongoing and life long process.

      • #3221185

        as an old saying in my native language goes “don’t teach dad how to @%^(*&”

        by why me worry? ·

        In reply to Old Geezers can’t handle IT

        and in this case, don’t attempt to teach the older IT folks about IT because they can teach us young folks a few things we never knew.

    • #3221189

      Old Geezers – HA!!!!

      by tomcotexas9 ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I am 72 years young, been working on computers since 1962, Big Blue main frames in those days, 14xx series, then 360s, 370, in development in those days, then a stint as a software guy, then back to hardware, on an office automation system. Then communications system development, ended up doing communications development for the RISC 6000. Since retirement, run a small machine shop, and build custom computer systems for interested parties. Also repair systems. I do networking, WiFi, what ever comes along. Not saying I know it all, cause I sure do not, BUT if I do not know something I need, I learn it. I am sure there are many guys out there like me. We do not take a back seat to the young crew, we do not need to. Have enough experience in multiple fields to figure out and handle any problem which comes along. So, when yhou youngsters get stuck, look around for an old gray headed guy who has been at it for 40 or more years, he just might teach you a thing or two.

      Tomcotexas

      • #3221168

        Who teaches these young guys?

        by madsmaddad ·

        In reply to Old Geezers – HA!!!!

        Well TomcoTexas, you have 12 years on me. But I have been working as a University lecturer for 5 years ( YES, Hired at 55!) to teach networking. These young kids have all teh latest toys – mobile phones with email etc, but can they put together a network in the class? Only 16 machines, but they would be lucky to get them done in 2 hours, and unlikely to be correct. Takes my demonstrator and me about 40 minutes.

        But the point is – they didn’t hire a 23 year old to teach this course.

        Just for a laugh – maybe tomorrow i’ll make all the computers OS/2 warp and see what they can do.

        • #3221116

          LOL! Welll SOME one isn’t doing a very good job!

          by lando56 ·

          In reply to Who teaches these young guys?

          This ol’ geezer (just turned 50) taught for a while at a college/tech school. Of course they knew it all… well, except for things like converting IP addresses to binary, setting up Group Policies in AD and ACTIVATING them (!), subnetting, routers… and forget about security. I’ve corrected more ‘kiddie experts’ in that area than I really care to account for! Synchronous vs asynchronous? Come on!!

          Welll besides all that… and more, they were pretty smart! (LOL! Just ask them!)

        • #3221112

          I bumped into one

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to LOL! Welll SOME one isn’t doing a very good job!

          Degree concentrating on java and web applications.

          First question I had to answer for him was

          What is TCP/IP?

          Next
          Why do they call it a mask?
          Next
          Boolean Algebra ?

          He could have got a job with Gartner, young and new some buzz words.

          Drag your degree over here and drop it in the bin.

        • #3221072

          Now come one Tony we all know that

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to I bumped into one

          Boolean Algebra died a natural death decades ago. MS told me so at one Partners Meeting several years ago & I just had to laugh at the stupidity of the entire comment.

          I still don’t think that the guy understood why I was laughing but just because you layer so much junk on top of something doesn’t mean that it’s still not there doing it’s thing unnoticed by these people on their Play Toys. 😀

          Col

        • #3221070

          Boolean Algebra?

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to I bumped into one

          You didn’t have to ask that, you could probably have gotten him by asking him what a truth table is.

        • #3220992

          No he asked me.

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Boolean Algebra?

          I don’t have a degree you see, so I didn’t know you could get one without knowing something as fundmanental as that.

          I wasn’t cruel though, there was an enormous temptation to transfer numbers in BCD, and try a work reverse polish notation in there.

          I decided not to go there after teh next seraching question

          infix ?

        • #3220591

          Here’s a killer networking question.

          by nighthawk808 ·

          In reply to No he asked me.

          What’s the difference between a switch and a hub? You’d be amazed at how few times you get the right answer. In my more devious moods, I go into CompUSA or Best Buy and act like a confused customer, then ask the poor salesperson that question.

        • #3220534

          Now that is cruel

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to No he asked me.

          Yoiu know that isnt in the bit of spiel that constitued their training.

          One of them tried to sell me ME once.

          Another one told me to get NT before the service pack came out because there would be lots of bugs in it.
          Now he was nearly right I’ll admit.

    • #3221143

      At almost 39, I don’t feel too old for IT

      by diginferno ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      And I’m gonna report as spammer any twenty-something whippersnapper who sends mass messages containing the office joke of the day, interrupting my concentration while I write some code.

      Yes, I said “write code”, is that too old-fashioned for the point-and-click whippersnapper? *smirk*

      Howgh!

      • #3221114

        In my early 40’s I was called grandpa

        by norm ·

        In reply to At almost 39, I don’t feel too old for IT

        In my early 40’s co-workers began calling me grandpa not because of my actions but strictly because of my age.
        In their lack of wisdom anyone over 30 was to old to work. Within 2 years of leaving the company, the company was bankrupt. I guess that real says all that needs to be said about the company.

    • #3221139

      Didn’t Gartner say the mainframe was dead a while ago?

      by dfo_rexx ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I’m 46, in a group where the others are over 50 or under 35. As a “geezer” who’s one of the main drivers for improvements in my area, I’ve got to say the best people have, besides the technical and people skills, a combination of being open-minded and flexible when it comes to change. Age really means nothing; it’s attitude. Some of the older set in my group are quite forward-looking.

      Hey Gartner, here’s one “oldster” thumbing his nose at you!

      • #3221099

        Gartner may think they are dead…..

        by madsmaddad ·

        In reply to Didn’t Gartner say the mainframe was dead a while ago?

        So why are IBM coming to give a presentation to my class in a couple of weeks about the Z series mainframe and virtualization [ I think that is some youngsters boggle word for timesharing ].

        Anyone in the UK on Oct 30 is welcome to attend!

        — I still miss my AS\400
        — and command line instructions!

        • #3221093

          Repeating History

          by norm ·

          In reply to Gartner may think they are dead…..

          I believe it was churchill who said “thost that can not remember history are condemend to repeat it.”
          In this case rpeating Timesharing/virtualization is a good thing but just think they get to repeat all the mistakes too.

    • #3221089

      Laugh all the way to retirement

      by askins.lloyd ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I’m 64 and still hobble a few circles around some of my IT coharts. But at least I have EARNED a small retirement when companies still valued employees. The young’uns today have only 401K’s and maybe SS to look forward to. You won’t get rich doing IT but it should be a satisfying career or you should change careers. It is an exacting profession, nothing is estimated or guessed at. The expertise is in the details which so many young ones overlook. And yes I do Windows but cut my teeth on mainframes.

    • #3221088

      What’s all the fuss about?

      by theantimike ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I’m 52 and going strong and will be in this field till dying day. My knowledge and experience has always been stronger on the hardware side but I do know Windows well enough to be the sole tech support provider for approximately 100 end users. If I wasn’t so busy I would spend more time learning code.
      One thing I have noticed is the younger ones seem to have poor work habits and demand more money for less work. That is probably true in any field.

    • #3221073

      Virtual Storage

      by techrepublic ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Bear with an old man. 🙂

      This reminds of a story.

      A couple of DECADES ago, some kid sat with me at lunch. He started raving about this magic thing that Intel ‘invented’ called virtual memory (implemented in the 80386).

      I literally fell off my chair laughing, because as any REAL old-timer knows, Virtual Memory/Machine was actually invented two decades BEFORE (no later than 1967) at Cambridge University in conjunction with IBM. The first publically released computer to implement it was the IBM 360/67 MAINFRAME!

      SO – that same guy might have posted here as an “old-timer” and saying things like “there’s nothing new under the sun”.

      He’d pretty much be right. Go look up when the mouse was invented. 😉

      Simple Simon

    • #3220978

      Windows 2 gig file limit?

      by chris.glasser ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Windows has a 2 gig file limit? Wow, guess my 3 GB SQL Server database (stored in *one* MDF file) must be on a system other than Windows. Oh wait! SQL Server only runs on Windows, so that can’t be!

      Now, I agree that Gartner’s “analysis” was absurd and that “old-timers” definitely have value to add to IT (I’m 39 – not a young guy, but not quite an old-timer yet), but when you make inaccurate assertions such as Windows having a 2 gig file size limit, you actually give some credence to Gartner’s statements.

      • #3220606

        Well, now, young’un ;)

        by nicknielsen ·

        In reply to Windows 2 gig file limit?

        Those of use who have been around for awhile can tell you that the file size limitation is a function of both the operating system and the file system on the disk. For example, both MS-DOS and FAT12 limit the file size to 32MB. The 2 GB file size limit applies on FAT16 partitions running under Windows. The file size limit for FAT32 is 4 GB, and the theoretical file size limit for NTFS is the size of the drive less 64 KB.

        So, maybe he is one of those (like me) still working with Windows 95/98 PCs.

    • #3220975

      1 Trillion Dollars of Youthful Waste

      by jerome.koch ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Much of the .com bubble (about 1 trillion wasted on VC) was fueled by youthful exhuberence, as well as the niave belief that profits no longer mattered. I distinctly remember 20-something MCSEs, Unix and Linux gurus, and VB developers acting like mercenairies -contracting to the highest bidder. IT shops were reduced to a MTV like set;28 year olds worth million in options worked, partied, and spent like a 17 year old with thier father’s Gold Master Card.

      For about 3 years IT was like some dream. Salaries and stock options went higher and higher. IT during those years spent hundreds of billions. But, when Fortune 1000 Companies woke up, and they asked thier 27 year old CIO what they had to show for thier investment. The bubble popped shortly there after, and the sneering Linux or Unix guru headed for the hills.

      Now, 45 to 55 years have spent the better part of a decade cleaning the messes up, as well as repairing IT’s reputation. Gartner now tells us the 20 somethings are back, ready to squander another trillion.

    • #3220963

      Wisdom comes with experience

      by robert.walsh ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I read the article and Mark’s wording and opinion were interesting. I have been in IT since 1966. At my current job at a banking service bureau I can see this type of future possible in technology, based on the culture and number of target aged groups that banks wish to capture with their offerings. Cell phone use, VOIP, Online banking , ATM’s, thin clients, GPS, changes in media choices for advertising etc. as well as advances in software are all around us. I work with a diverse group here, where my wisdom and futuristic outlook go hand in hand. Change is inevitable. Go with it or perish. Age has little to do with it unless you stop educating yourself. Example, this week I am in Classes for Viso, studying on my own VBScript, and testing with Quick Test Pro with .NET. Not bad for someone over 60!!!
      Webmaster, QA Analyst and many other IT roles over the years make me invaluable today, and we will see what the future brings? I drive an Acura integra, and a Honda Rebel, not a sedan (like my wife)!

    • #3220598

      Gartner Strikes Out (again)!!!

      by larry.kettlewell ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      First it was IDS is dead, now the old farts follow.

      Why would anyone take Gartner seriously anyway? Its they who don’t know $**t about IT

      “an ancient, long-in-the-tooth CISO”

    • #3220539

      who cares?

      by hellums ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      so we’ll just learn to wear baggy pants, stop shaving, and bathe less frequently. Then we’ll blend.

    • #3220492

      The best way to understand what’s going to happen, Bittman said, is to look

      by bbwalters ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I read the article, and watched, they play games. anything serious and I get queries like; ‘Where’s the Hash key on the keyboard?’ Why has my braodband now showing a different ISP in IE.
      Why do they pester me, I’m 70 years old! I’m fed up with their stupidity.

      • #3220412

        AMEN!

        by tomcotexas9 ·

        In reply to The best way to understand what’s going to happen, Bittman said, is to look

        Some things never change, the pride of the young, about the things they think they know, and the simple questions they ask us, which proves who/where they are. I am an old guy, but have a young wife, and two teen age sons. One is in IT class in high school, the instuctor seems hung up on Linux. You should hear some of the questions my boy and his friends ask. But if you ask then, they are the experts. Time will tell.

        Cheers,

        Tomcotexas

        • #3220409

          Just provided that the teacher isn’t

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to AMEN!

          Pushing Linux as a Cure All for everything there isn’t really a problem. It has it’s place as well as BSD and Windows and when used correctly they work well together.

          I can still remember the son of one customer who was doing CS at Uni here who was sold on AMD CPU’s for everything no matter what was involved. Anything else was theft as far as he was concerned and there was nothing that you could say that would make him think otherwise. He actually designed the [b]Mission Critical Server[/b] that I built for the customer and when I installed it he was constantly watching over my shoulder wanting to know why I was doing what I was doing.

          Within 2 days I or one of my staff had attended that place 5 times to fix the server that was costing thousands per hour in down time. At first the Son was [b]making it work better[/b] and causing it to fall over but very soon after that his father refused to allow him to touch the unit as it was costing him way too much.

          For the next 6 months where where wagering a constant battle with that machine to keep it working, it fell over if someone walked into the building the wrong way or raised their voice there was no reason why it broke it just broke. After 6 months the owner was at his wits end and asked my what I would do and I said rip it out and put in what I originally quoted on. I didn’t even burn in that sever for the mandatory 100 hours after it was built it was just rushed into place and allowed to burn in on site. Not my usual practice but absolutely necessary in this case.

          The end result was that the son took the AMD unit and now uses it as a Play Toy to play games and isn’t the slightest bit concerned when it fails the Intel replacement unit has only ever been down for routine maintenance things like applying Patches and the like and has run perfectly for close to 2 years now.

          Needless to say when it comes to Business Systems the son is no longer involved in the decision making that little stunt cost the owner well over 1 Million $ in lost production and he can not believe the difference between what are effectively the same machines with different CPU’s and M’Board Chip sets.

          Col

    • #3220346

      As Somebody in another thread already did , R O F L M A O !

      by warezcrc ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I have been reading this thread and, R O T F L M A O.

      Well, first I have some quotes to start this of with.

      “Those that can’t do either, manage.”

      “The attitude is radiated from the CEO on down the company”

      “Gartner now tells us the 20 somethings are back, ready to squander another trillion”

      And here goes:

      I have read all the posts, took me a while. There have been quite some insightful posts, really, from “old farts” and “new farts” aswell.

      But, I would like to contribute my ZerO? to this thread, young as I am.

      We all have to remember that, today, we are nothing but “consumers”!

      Do I have to explain this? Probably! I’ll try to do it as short as possible.

      Gartner Group, who’s report I even didn’t bother to read for reasons that you already have understood or will understand soon after my explanation.

      “Gartner is asking the questions to get the answers they want.”

      Gartner is asking the questions that will provide them with the broadest possible market. There you go, you are a consumer.
      This isn’t something that only Gartner does, everybody does it.
      However, not everybody falls for the trick!

      I think that I don’t fall for that trick in life, but I can assure you that I fall for the same trick, as does a lot of other people. No matter in which position. It’s all about sales and marketing. In the end it boils down to those ???, or any other currency that you currently use. I’ll go with the ?, since most of you around at TechRepublic are ? oriented :).

      Now these quotes will pretty much explain why things are the way it is.

      What we have, is the blind leading the blind, and the worst of it is that they choose to be that way!

      Those who are supposed to lead are unwilling, those who are not supposed to lead, really do!

      You see people, this is exactly the root of the problem, haha ha, root = u*x, I know it’s korny, there I did it again, kornshell.

      Everybody has stated their age, so will I. Don’t know why, maybe it will give me some credibility ? 33

      I have proof of that that the 2 last quotes are valid/true. In my company which happens to be a multinational company.

      Exmaple.
      CIO of my branch, the IT branch of this “so” succesfull multinational company decides that a power maintenaance is to be done during the holidays, although that person knows very well that no techies will be around because everybody is on a holiday and a change implementation stop is on!
      Can you believe this shit!!!!

      It’s like this from now and then, and it doesn’t matter in which company you work.

      Those who are supposed to lead are unwilling, those who are not supposed to lead, really do!

      That’s it, you are a consumer, being a CIO, CEO, CTO or John Doe. And you’r not necceseraly smart.

      We need new personel they all say, not because they need, but because they can’t see the value that the current personnel is providing the company with.

      The personnel is I’m afraid only a cost centre as some CIO or whatever wanted to say isn’t the fact. The companies aren’t interested in paying high salaries, but they fail to see what the newly added employee will add valuewise and what is lost when the old is kicked out.

      I’m still R O T F L M A O, and will keep doing so for the rest of my life.

      What we have learned from history is, that we haven’t learned anything from it.

      If you don’t like this opinion, I have others. Also, feel free not to tell me.

      R O T F L M A O

      Btw, English isn’t my native language. In case of misspellings.

    • #3220310

      Old but GOOD!

      by mavmin2 ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I just turned 54 and I train people much younger than I am. Youthful zeal and bodies are good but there is something to be said for age and experience. My troubleshooting skills are much better than the average lad half my age and I am more patient in most scenarios. I don’t carry PCs on my shoulder across the campus anymore but I still have some skills and philosophies that I can pass down to my junior co-workers. Hopefully, in 2 years I can say G-day to all of it and let them have it. I am all for people retiring at the earliest possible date so that we can enjoy some of the fruits of our labors before they plant us in a hole. Besides, in Ancient Israel anyone over 50 became a mentor and supervisor so let the young lads do the work and we will rope them in when they get a little crazy in their youthful zeal. I am from the never trust anyone over 30 group but I have learned that folks on any age level can be dynamite in their fields. Let the older remember we were once like them and let the younger realize that as they treat us they also may be treated one day. That will grease a lot of new and rusty cogs. Shalom!

    • #3220271

      What the little punks are fogetting…

      by mazdaman ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      …is that the technology they’re enjoying now didn’t even exist until WE invented it!

      CDs, PCs, Ethernet, Internet, LCDs (even before they were used in monitors!), microprocessors, floppy drives, hard drives, video games, cell phones, etc. The punks act as if they had all the ideas, while they’re really just reaping the benefits of all our hard work. They were just a gleam in Daddy’s eye while we built these things, and the infrastructure to go with them. They were still filling diapers when most of the technology we use today was radical thinking.

      I’m trying to think of something new that was done by the children, but without my Alzheimer’s medicine, it’s difficult…;)

    • #3222373

      Gartner Again…

      by middleagednewbie ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I’m sure they don’t ladle up bull all the time, but let’s not forget, Gartner also thought that y2k would be the end of the world as we know it. The part about being soggy around the middle is what burns me the most. If Mark Raskino can outlast me on a NordicTrak, he can razz me about my age, but not until then.

    • #3220838

      Quick Summation

      by chaslbolt ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      It was the first day, and this 59 year old IT Geezer was teaching A+ Certification to a class of young geeks, who knew it all. For the next two days, the geeks were instructed from the book, but also provided analogies derived from the real world experience of beiing in the field. By the third day, several geeks were gathered around the old geezer asking many questions, when the most obnoxious, boldest of the geeks, spoke up and said, “When I started this class, I thought I knew a lot, but in just 2 days, I realized I don’t know anything”. From the mouth of babes……

      • #3220758

        Ah the sad truth of this business!

        by ray.oconnell ·

        In reply to Quick Summation

        That has been my 30 year traverse through this field, the more I know the dummer I feel! This is because before I learned something I didn’t know how much I didn’t know! Then I learn it and guess what now there is a bunch more that i never even knew I didn’t know!
        I use the analogy of walking up to a house looks like a cute little house. You open the door and go in, wow looks a lot roomier than from the outside. Turn and open a door and there is a hall going off somewhere with several doors, you pick one and go in. This room has a couple of doors where you go explore. Now back to the hallway and pick another door and this can go on forever with second floors and basement and more hallways. For those in the bay area think the Winchester house! LOL
        Ray

    • #3220836

      BALONEY!!

      by dr. engineer jim ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      We created IT and are still building it!

    • #3220756

      Let’s dig below the surface

      by dawuf ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      The reason why companies prefer young workers is that they are cheaper. There are basically two motivations that companies have power and money. Mostly money. However their refusal to embrace telecommuting is purely a power issue. In fact, I suspect most political issues boil down to these two items as well.

      • #3220735

        posting, posting

        by cherubcalf ·

        In reply to Let’s dig below the surface

        I’m basically doing this to keep track on my site- will look at all the activity later- if I get a chance.

        Every new generation thinks its the ultimate prima donna- history sits and chews on it awhile- it’s a totally different perspective.

        If all the young bucks think they’re as smart as Isaac Newton, maybe they have a case- if not, shut up and do your job. Just kidding. I always hated hearing that, back in the caveman days…

    • #3220755

      Job Security

      by rpmcaninch ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I’ll tell you what. Let the newbies take it and screw it up, we will be in demand to come in and fix it again.

    • #3220708

      Youngsters and Diaper duty

      by netgurus ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      There real issue is about experience and expertise.

      Do you want to buy the experience and expertise or do you want to pay for a “youngster” to develop it?

      Since I teach part time and have a lot of interaction with “youngsters”, their issue is not how quickly they pick up new technologies, but how quickly they quit when faced with adversity. I cannot count the number of times that I have been brought in by a client to clean up after a half-a** job done by a “hot shot” youngster.

      Adversity is what provides the experience and expertise.

      When you have had a failed implementation that keep you up all night, then you can say you are in IT.

    • #3220707

      Middle aged, hugh income,

      by netgurus ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Since I am one of those “”middle aged, sedan-driving, middle income, middle-of-the-road, midlife-crisis, mid-sized managers from the Midwest, who carry a little bit too much weight around their middles,” I gues I will just have to cancel my Gartner subscription.

      PUNKS!!!

    • #3219617

      I’m proud to be a old geezer

      by craiglarry9 ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I think I’ve gained a lot by getting older. If “some” of you want to get older, you should try some kindness and manners. Won’t hurt.

    • #3225901

      Montana Rancher or Texas Cowboy

      by tmsassoc ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Seeing the various comments reminded me of this email I got recently form 2 different sources.

      Montana Rancher (also seen under Texas Cowboy)

      A Montana cowboy was overseeing his herd in a remote mountainous pasture when suddenly a brand-new BMW advanced out of a dust cloud towards him.

      The driver, a young man in a Brioni suit, Gucci shoes, Ray Ban sunglasses and YSL tie, leans out the window and asks the cowboy “If I tell you exactly how many cows and calves you have in your herd, will you give me a calf?”

      The cowboy looks at the man, obviously a yuppie, then looks at his peacefully grazing herd and calmly answers “Sure, Why not?”

      The yuppie parks his car, whips out his Dell notebook computer, connects it to his Cingular RAZR V3 cell phone, and surfs to a NASA page on the Internet, where he calls up a GPS satellite navigation system to get an exact fix on his location which he then feeds to another NASA satellite that scans the area in an ultra-high-resolution photo.

      The young man then opens the digital photo in Adobe Photoshop and exports it to an image processing facility in Hamburg, Germany. Within seconds, he receives an email on his Palm Pilot that the image has been processed and the data stored. He then accesses a MS-SQL database through an ODBC connected Excel spreadsheet with email on his Blackberry and, after a few minutes, receives a response.

      Finally, he prints out a full-color, 150-page report on his hi-tech, miniaturized HP LaserJet printer and finally turns to the cowboy and says “You have exactly 1,586 cows and calves.”

      “That’s right. Well, I guess you can take one of my calves,” says the cowboy.

      He watches the young man select one of the animals and looks on amused as the young man stuffs it into the trunk of his car.

      Then the cowboy says to the young man “Hey, if I can tell you exactly what your business is, will you give me back my calf?”

      The young man thinks about it for a second and then says “Okay, why not?”

      “You’re a Congressman for the U.S. Government”, says the cowboy.

      “Wow! That’s correct,” says the yuppie, “but how did you guess that?”

      “No guessing required.” answered the cowboy. “You showed up here even though nobody called you; you want to get paid for an answer I already knew, to a question I never asked. You tried to show me how much smarter than me you are; and you don’t know a thing about cows…this is a herd of sheep.

      Now give me back my dog!”

    • #3225751

      Time will prove who is right.

      by bjgordon ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I worked a contract once where I was asked to prepare a proposal for a project. I was the only one around with long experience in the relevant (for said project) technology — FOCUS on MVS. When the proposal was presented to the rest of the department in a meeting, I was almost laughed out of the room. I was forced to halve my time estimate, then halve it again.

      When the project was at the end of that insane time period, the project, from the management perspective, was dead in the water. They hired two young guys who were in diapers when I started in FOCUS. These guys (I was severly reprimanded for calling them “Young Turks”) presented the solution to our problem. I was extremely sceptical because I KNEW it was not as simple as these guys made it look.

      Then I got fired.

      A YEAR later I happened to meet the person I reported to at the time of the project, who was also reprimanded, but not fired. She said the project STILL wasn’t finished!! And the Young Turks were long gone.

      These guys wore suits and ties, but they STILL didn’t know what they were talking about.

      • #3226229

        Time is a great teacher…

        by deletemystuff ·

        In reply to Time will prove who is right.

        “Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils.”

        Hector Berlioz, composer

        Thankfully …every time I get a new intern or entry-level employee it seems they come less equipped for employment. Year before last, I was presented with the son of a foreign oil producer (read that how ever you want) doing an IT internship. Instead of doing his assigned work, he and another whiz kid were busy configuring a Bit Torrent on a production server. They fired it up over the weekend to download a pirated pre-release commercial film from India and brought down the weekend backup process.

        These wizards then spent Monday morning trying to figure out why their passwords weren’t working. The Network group had disabled their accounts.

        The oil field progeny didn’t care that he was fired on the spot. He said he could care less and drove off in his Lexus.

        I hope my teacher, Time, gets me before I have to entertain another college intern.

    • #3226259

      I used to care what Gartner spewed…

      by boomslang ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      but experience has told me that they mostly haven’t got a clue on a lot of the issues they have opinions about. And that’s the crux of the problem, scientific studies vs. opinions. Gartner is publishing opinions when they say they’re studies.

    • #3223687

      2 Gig?

      by cboswel ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Doesn’t NTFS have a 16 exabyte file size limit? I thought 2 Gig was a FAT limit.

    • #3219519

      Many Young People cannot handle IT

      by mschoenberg ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      I work as a consultant and worked in a service center with a lot of young people of which some shared your misguided view,the few that did not wanted to learn from the experienced people, the problem today is that some young people think they know it all , and those of us who have been in the field know you keep on learning as long as you are in this field

      • #3219451

        Funny strange

        by nicknielsen ·

        In reply to Many Young People cannot handle IT

        I remember being sure I knew it all when I was young, but I don’t remember being this arrogant (or stupid) about it.

        • #2599685

          HEH!!!

          by gardyngrrrl ·

          In reply to Funny strange

          Aw man you tell em!!
          Being a 45 yr old woman in a predominatley MALE and 25-35 yr old field….AND working in the SOUTH….yeah its fun….GOOD TIMES!!!
          Actually I love the challenge and wouldnt do anything else.

    • #2514753

      Old Geezers need to accept the challenge & show their prowess

      by m_mehta52 ·

      In reply to Gartner: Old Geezers can’t handle IT

      Dear Young Lads,

      It is only due to these old Geezers that you all are enjoying the ripe fruits of IT 2day.

      Had they not devoted their youth and energies to the Global IT enterprise, we may not be able to blog like this !!!!!!. Got it straight !!!!!

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