General discussion

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  • #2181216

    Hanging Newbies

    Locked

    by amna1659 ·

    Hi to all.
    This discussion is regarding career help. Newbies like me couldn’t get any clear cut help choosing career path ( computers) e.g.

    which way to go like:-

    1) Network Administration or Network Engg. or
    Network Designing

    IF yes which path Microsoft / Cisco etc . then
    there after Security , Admin etc.

    2) Programming side

    Application programming
    Embedded systems

    if application programming
    Then
    Front End ( Java/ Vb)
    bACLEND (oRACLE / mYSQL ETC)
    wEB sERVERS
    iNTERNET pROGRAMMING

    iF Embeded system one then

    Low lwvwl programming
    Network programming

    Can any body guide us ( all newbies) abt which way to go , which way has more brighter futer and any thin else ….

    I hope this ‘ll help many of us , we’ll owe something to u all helping guys…..

    hoping for response…..

All Comments

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    Replies
    • #3187911

      ~shudder~

      by jaqui ·

      In reply to Hanging Newbies

      application programming is not a front end backend thing.
      application programming is writing the code for… say oracle server, excel spreadsheet, microshaft word.
      using the macro scripting language is business logic programmng.

      embedded systems programming, aka cell phones, palm computers, most are using linux, most of the programming is application development, for a network device.
      or the router/firewall/email filter. which is also usually linux based hardware, and agian, the embedded system’s applications are network applications.

      and this question has been asked repeately, and answered repeatedly.
      look through archives before saying that you are left hanging.

      • #3187481

        on the other hand …

        by stress junkie ·

        In reply to ~shudder~

        I’m tempted to agree with Jaqui that this question has been asked and answered many times here. But there are a couple of considerations before recommending that someone look up previous answers. For one thing it is not easy to find older discussions on a given topic. A second consideration is that I sense a difference between this person’s question and previous discussions on this topic. I get the impression that this person is looking for or would be better served by us recommending more general guidelines and suggestions than previous posts on this subject. So I’m going to take that approach and see where it takes us.

        I recently “celebrated” my 20th anniversary in this field. Looking back over that time I have a few observations that may be helpful. The most pertinent thing that I can say is that your career probably won’t follow your plan. Here is how things worked out for my career.

        When I got out of college I had planned to be an application developer. My first job in this field was working for a very small business where I was the only computer person. I ended up creating a few applications, a few databases with applications, assisting end users with using commercial applications, and performing all of the system administration. When I left this employer I found more jobs in system administration than in my other areas of experience. After a while I found that it had been a long time since I had been a DBA or application developer. Businesses were using software development tools that I had not used. I found that I was pretty much locked into system administration.

        I very much enjoy system administration but I really wanted to design databases. It seemed that the Tao of my career was pushing me away from software development and into computer support. After a few years my experience allowed me to to be paid as an experienced system administrator but I would have to accept entry level pay to get back into software development, so I went with system administration. I’ve enjoyed my career but back in 1985 I would not have been able to see how it would turn out. I’ve still got another 20 years to go and I have to admit that I cannot accurately predict what is ahead. I would encourage you first and foremost to follow the money. Then within that context I would recommend that you seek jobs that involve performing tasks that interest you and that exploit your natural talents. Ultimately you may find, as I did, that the opportunities that present themselves have a greater impact on the direction of your career than your plans.

        Lastly I would encourage you to stop using that IM shorthand. Learn and use proper English. IM lingo makes you look immature and ignorant.

        Good luck. 🙂

        • #3187088

          ditto

          by jeffersnet ·

          In reply to on the other hand …

          I also started out as a DBA and ended up as a System Engineer. I wouldn’t be able to be a DBA now because too much has changed even though it has only been about 10 years since my switch. I could have stuck with my DBA path and at times I wish I would have done that but I followed the money at the time and I think I’ve become a pretty good SE since my change.

          I do think that IT is becoming more specialized as time goes on and that it is important to pick the right career path but don’t just do it for money or you won’t be happy and if it doesn’t make you happy you won’t be good at it and then you won’t have money anyway.

      • #3187383

        Having a bad day?

        by dbertsche ·

        In reply to ~shudder~

        A little curt don’t you think?

    • #3187448

      here’s a thought

      by shellbot ·

      In reply to Hanging Newbies

      right..i suggest looking for some free online classes to try out a few things, or look for a 1 year general IT course you can take which would touch on a little bit of everything, then maybe you would find your better at one or two items, or like them better.
      i started out with a bit of web programming..then VB6 courses..why on earth did i spend 3 years as a Data Anylyst (in FoxPro for goodness sake)i’ll never know..which has consequently taken me into DBA work..but am in a job as a DB Support / DBA right now. I’ve found I’m incredibly good as an anylyst, not sure if i enjoy it 100%, but i can say with no vanity that i can rip apart a database and give you statistics and anlysis like you have never seen. But i’ll get to use my web programming in a short while..woo hoo..
      (i think i’ve confused myself now..what am i again?)

    • #3187026

      Well if you are talking education

      by tony hopkinson ·

      In reply to Hanging Newbies

      stop with this proprietry stuff and choose a basic area of IT. There’s no particular reason except talent skill and the market why you can’t be all of admin, databases and coding during your career, I’ve been back and forth in all of them and on several different operating systems.

      Don’t learn MySQl or Oracle PL/SQL, learn SQL !.
      I’ve lost count of how many different flavours of SQL, I’ve used, if you know the basics and the SQL standard, the rest will fall into place very easily.
      If you are looking at it from a technical point of view then it depends on how far in the future you are talking about. Whatever the industry trends are now they won’t be in a few years time, what’s the in thing now won’t be soon. Learn the underlying principles, how to use google and then apply them.
      If you want to know what the in thing will be in two years time look for waht’s required and invent it. Even if a reputable astrologer told waht it would be there wouldn’t be any courses in it.

    • #3187023

      Get a degree…

      by jmgarvin ·

      In reply to Hanging Newbies

      First get a degree in Computer Science or IT. Find your niche while you are in school.

      Keep in mind, no matter how hard you plan, you’ll never know where you are going to end up. I never planned on being an instructor, but I am VERY glad my career path has lead me here.

      • #3186988

        Great…..

        by amna1659 ·

        In reply to Get a degree…

        Thank You all for giving your valuable suggestions and guiding me in this field.

        But I am not still clear.
        As there is a point of a degree in computers , I am Bachelors in Computer Applications.

        But leave that part apart, back to main discussions ,

        The main ideas of guidance is guys like me have strong knowledge of ( Network administration CCNA , MCSE) , strong hold on C programming (Sun Certified), moderate Linux experience , have done projects in VB & Oracle , moderate experience in Java , craze for money (of course) .

        But all this done during studies. Got no work exposure and not sure about which industry has got good money and will be stable.

        I know I am changing the topic altogether ,but with guys like you who are working in industry right now , you can give me better advice than on any website or irrelevent discussions done in past ( in present scenerio).

        I have searched a lot , asked from my teachers .
        But couldn’t get a light in dark .

        If you can guide me , i will be thankfull to for this help and this will be relly appreciated.

        Cheers ,

        • #3186936

          I think it boils down to this..

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Great…..

          What do you like to do? While there are some fields that aren’t going to pay the money, if it is what you like to do you will be FAR more happy than doing the same ol’ drudgery that you hate.

          It sounds like you like networks, so I’d push for you to be a network admin. You might also want to become and application programmer of some sort.

          I think the main thing is, what do you love to do?

    • #3186987

      Great …..

      by amna1659 ·

      In reply to Hanging Newbies

      Thank You all for giving your valuable suggestions and guiding me in this field.

      But I am not still clear.
      As there is a point of a degree in computers , I am Bachelors in Computer Applications.

      But leave that part apart, back to main discussions ,

      The main ideas of guidance is guys like me have strong knowledge of ( Network administration CCNA , MCSE) , strong hold on C programming (Sun Certified), moderate Linux experience , have done projects in VB & Oracle , moderate experience in Java , craze for money (of course) .

      But all this done during studies. Got no work exposure and not sure about which industry has got good money and will be stable.

      I know I am changing the topic altogether ,but with guys like you who are working in industry right now , you can give me better advice than on any website or irrelevent discussions done in past ( in present scenerio).

      I have searched a lot , asked from my teachers .
      But couldn’t get a light in dark .

      If you can guide me , i will be thankfull to for this help and this will be relly appreciated.

      Cheers ,

    • #3186962

      I agree—get a degree

      by stooobeee ·

      In reply to Hanging Newbies

      Get your degree in Computer Science. Certifications are only icing on the cake, and many employers today realize that certifications only point to whether you know how to study for an exam; they do not indicate real skill level. It doesn’t take but an hour at the interview to determine if you are hiding behind your certifications or whether you actually know what to do in the field.

    • #3186923

      Security

      by jeffporsche ·

      In reply to Hanging Newbies

      Security Security Security,is it. Yes get a degree.

      Why, Because it can’t be outsourced. Just type it in to Google- China, India etc.

      JD

      • #3187768

        Outsourced

        by tagmarkman ·

        In reply to Security

        Can’t be oursourced? Security is outsourced all the time… it’s a huge business in itself… although most core security is not (but a lot of that is as well).

    • #3186922

      No path…

      by tagmarkman ·

      In reply to Hanging Newbies

      I don’t think anybody here can guide you better than yourself.

      Do what you are passionate about and take a unique angle. If you are in it for only money, then I can only beg you not to get deeply into the field. You won’t be doing anyone “especially the users” a favor. Too many people have done this.

      I would recommend a degree… not because it is going to teach you anything but because you have a better chance of exposure of different topics in the field. And that experience will help you choose a path that will fit you better.

      Be careful about “choosing” a technology. Learn the concepts… the rest is syntax. If I settled on a path or language right out of college, I’d be in a pretty sad situation. Experiment with both closed source and open source and don’t tie yourself down to one OS.

      If you need specific guidance, get an informational interview at a place you would like to work someday. Find out what they use and what skills they want from their employees. Then learn it inside and out.

    • #3187642

      Fuel for the fire

      by beads ·

      In reply to Hanging Newbies

      Well, IT is very cyclical in nature. One momement your hot in demand the next… your yesterdays news. Meaning that you really have to love what your doing as a career not the paycheck.

      Helpfull hints:

      – You want guaranteed employment, work for the government or go into geriatics. America like the rest of the world is getting older and we will need more skilled Geriatric practioners to care for us as our diapers fill up and we refuse to leave our keyboards.

      – A four year degree is a must. Computer Science for development work. IT/Telecomm for Systems.

      – A good designer is made from the best Admins and Engineers. You start off doing admin (MAC) work first then progress to higher levels of detail work. Actually, the help desk is probably the best place to start for admins as well.

      – We only get ourselves into trouble when we say ‘Engineers’. Though thats what we are when we design, build and maintain complex systems based on logic and mathematics. We only get into trouble with the Engineering societies of the world as they are really engineers backed with state licenses to practice, Engineering.

      Work on the English skills. Not that I am the foremost practioner of the language, mind you. The need to communicate clearly will be one of your best assests to your career. This includes both oral and written skills. There was a time when you would have been almost frowned apon if you had great English skills in IT. Now, its a requirement.

      – Certifications. Two years of post University experience and a cert or two won’t hurt you. Too many people back in the 90’s tried to use the cert process to circumvent getting a four year degree and are now unemployed. The cert field has been sorely tarnished overall and lost a good deal of its value, especially Micro Soft certs. A+ is a very good start. Getting a MCSE in college would be a definite turn-off to most employers. For that matter I have seen High School kids earn thier MCSEs and tell me they wanted $80k to start. That and there obviously inflated resume’s got the door shown to them.

      Good luck. Follow YOUR passions with zeal for the technology not the paycheck and you’ll be fine.

      – beads

    • #3187597

      Find what you like

      by zlitocook ·

      In reply to Hanging Newbies

      I have had a lot hats in my life but I have found that computer hardware and software is where I belong. You need to go to school take classes in what you think you like. See how you feel after those classes. You need a hands on school because just reading a book and getting a good grade dont mean any thing in real life. You are looking into the IT area, ask your self what you want to do. We can tell you what we like but it is your life and it is up to you what you make of it!
      Man I sound like my dad;) Do what you want and it all works out in the long run.

      • #3185503

        2 cents

        by cuteelf ·

        In reply to Find what you like

        Ok. So you’ve got school rolling. Good.

        Get networking (as in schmoozing, people) going. Polish this skill because its THE WAY to get a job.
        I’ve found more leads by contacting all of my contatcts *teachers, schoolmates, etc* than job lists.

        As been said, tinker with the jobs as you go along, and find what you like. Have you taken a personality test yet? Do so, please. Take a skills test also (can be done @ local Job Center).

        You will NOT GET A $45/HOUR JOB AFTER COLLEGE. Face it. Try internships as you go through, during summers. See if you can build experience, contacts and work skills. You’ll also find practice in working with geeks 🙂 (i’m doing one myself,and i love it).

        I’m now @ an ISP, as a contractor. I’m in the Engineering dept, surrounded by walking encyclopedias. I love it. I’m handing myself to EVERYONE asking if they need help. I’m doing grunt work, but I’m also learning politics,people, and specialties. I’m not sticking to networking as I thought so..but I’m learning everything.

        And try new things. I”m figuring one year for this, and possibly keep on it or start a new path/tangent.

        I’m learning that I cant lock down a set of things to HAVE or GET (degree/certs) as I’m changing with the work changes.

        Good Luck
        CuteElf

        • #3185196

          YOU GOT THE JOB!!!!

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to 2 cents

          and you didn’t even tell me about it. I am hurt. 🙁

          Get experience with what you want to do. I got my start with networking by helping a friend of mine do side jobs. I would run the cables, setup the systems and anything else that needed to be done and he would buy me lunch.

          Some people would say this isn’t right because he made money and I didn’t. Get over it. If I had to PAY to take a class that would teach me the same thing with less hands on experience it would have cost me a about $2400 US. I think getting lunch on top of free training is a killer deal.

          Find a mentor.

        • #3172861

          Ink’s still wet

          by cuteelf ·

          In reply to YOU GOT THE JOB!!!!

          I just finished off the grant for the internship, havent even signed a contract for contracting 😛 but i’m going in on Tuesday to do it..Larry the contract guy should be there for the paperwork.

          Cute

    • #3172860

      People friendly

      by zlitocook ·

      In reply to Hanging Newbies

      In the IT field you need great people skills. At a help desk you have to respond to people who have never used a computer and feel that computers are taking over their jobs. Which they are but you need to listen and turn their problems into things that they understand. If you are a break fix person (a person who is called in to fix a problem that can not be fixed through a phone or direct connect like remote or SMS) you need to be a person with a great personality. Because that person will be mad that there problem was not fixed fast.
      This works for hardware and software, but if you just write software you get off easy to a point. The point is if you write bad software it will come back to you. A user, a boss or a company will always complain and it will come back to you.
      The IT field is great and was a lot better in the 90?s but can still be a great place to work. But you need to find a field that can not be out sourced.

    • #2755585

      For newbies…

      by dbwriter ·

      In reply to Hanging Newbies

      You will need to strengthen your skills in all areas unless you want to be a free-lancer/consultant. You will find that any company that finds you proficient in any IT area will grab a hold of you. You will find that you will be recruited for ANY electronic task because you can and no one else can.

      ALWAYS consider the needs of the end-user, and you will succeed in anything IT related.

      It is sort of like being a nurse: your first thought is to the “patient” and what they need to get the job done. If support people can do their job quickly, efficiently and with the tools to do that, the company prospers.

      The company prospers
      The customer prospers.
      The workers prosper – without stress, headache and fear.

      Our skills can make or break a company.

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