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Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

Locked

Saturday night my family was a victim of a home invasion. My mother-in-law has a separate house in our backyard and as me, my wife and her walked out to it, we were confronted by two armed men. As I opened the door they walked out and put a gun to my head and my wife and had us lay on the ground.

While one watched us, the other took my mother-in-law inside and stole a large sum of money she had withdrew from the bank that morning. After they got the money they left. All the while my 3 kids were in the main house.

I have been robbed at gunpoint before, but for my wife and kids to be in danger and it happening at our house is 100 times worse. The fact that they were after one thing and one thing only surprised me. They did not care about anything else.

I spent the rest of the weekend strengthening our defenses by reinforcing locks with steel plates and longer screws on the strike plates. I also replaced all the flood lights and have an electrician coming to install a few more next week to eliminate some dead areas in our lighting system.

We had talked about getting an alarm system last year but did not have the money at the time, but I believe I will call a few people Monday to get some quotes. I am definitely getting some wireless cameras to put up this week.

Saturday and Sunday night we spent the night at my sister-in-laws house because we just don’t feel safe. I don’t know how long it will take before we feel right again.

Have any other Tech Republic members been through this sort of thing and if so, what did you do to feel safe again.

Also, if anyone has some other ideas to secure our home I would be glad to hear them.

Topic

Panic buttons

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

Short of having a security system that allows the use of panic buttons and having each family member carry one in their pocket, there isn’t much you could do to prevent this in the future. You were obviously targeted at the bank where the money was withdrawn and then followed home and the theives just waited for the opportune moment. Prevention has to go beyond the home as is evident in this case. Possibly the bank security cameras will reveal some persons of interest or someone you could identify.

Wouldn’t have helped in your situation but

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

I don’t live in the richest area, ok it isn’t a slum but its not the greatest. But there are very few breakins of houses because we have less to steal. Cars are another story, we have some kids in the neighbourhood who regularly check the doors and steal any CDs or money in cars.

What I do recommend is motion sensitive outdoor lights.

I also have a dog. She wouldn’t hurt a flea but not everyone knows that.

I once lived in a rough area of Toronto, so I have a steel front door with only a tiny view hole, and a strong deadbolt with very long screws and an upgraded plate. We also have a baby alarm on the inside of the door. Turn it on and any movement of it emits a high pitch alarm. Yes its a pain when we come home but its worth it. We paid $20 at a garage sale. Its also a good dog training aid.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. An alarm system wouldn’t have helped you in this case, they probably waited for you to go outside to avoid all that.

I’ve been robbed while I was working at a seven eleven, but nothing like your scenario.

Take it easy and hope you can get your MIL and the family through this.

James

Have to not look like a target

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

and it seems clear that the withdrawal was seen by someone at the bank.

The idea of having the police check the cameras at the time of the withdrawal is right on, because that has to be where they spotted the money, unless she stopped at another store and let someone take a glimpse of the wad of cash.

Lights with motion sensors, good.

Get a dog that will bark at strangers, loudly. It is a pain to listen to, but will help scare away crooks that don’t want anything drawing attention to them.

Carrying a weapon would do you no good in a situation like this because you are covered before you would ever have a chance to pull your own. People forget that by the time you know about a home-invasion, it is often to late to get a weapon.

Make sure your neighbors know all about this, as well if their is any kind of neighborhood watch program.

Good luck with this.

I have had my house broken into a few times, but never while I was there. Both times I couldn’t find anything missing and had to assume they didn’t want to pet the nice doggie that was inside. ( Black lab/boxer ).

I have a Shar Pei….

In reply to Have to not look like a target

too bad he wasn’t loose, he hates people he doesn’t know.

I rep such systems too

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

While I can’t work with US clients I can offer you some first hand industry knowledge. First of all, the locks on your home were not breached, (according to your post it happened out back). If someone was IN your home and their exit was slowed by a lock or added deadbolt they couldn’t get past really quickly, chances are someone would have been hurt. It’s that fight or flight mode they are in, exits must be clean and why I always tell people to simply LET INTRUDERS LEAVE WITHOUT CHALLENGING THEM.

Your wife was obviously targeted and followed. $20 – $40 from bank machines, always get big money from inside the bank itself. As suggested, the bank will be able to monitor your wife’s withdrawal and PERAPS a camera will show someone in the background, but that’s really dodgy unless you can identify the person absolutely bang on with no hesitation.

Seeing as a break-in was not the case here, a good outdoor surveillance system requires high quality low lux cameras, a WELL HIDDEN DECENT DVR designed specifically for surveillance (which you can control through remote infra red emitters, easy and cheap solution)TV filtering and modulation will broadcast the signal to a TV channel of your choice for viewing in any room or even remotely via webaccess (not expensive and a great investment). Of course you need good outdoor lighting too, thieves don’t like lights.

THINGS TO AVOID: Alarm companies that offer free systems or free installation with a monitoring contract, The contract usually only covers one room or two contact points, the equipment is bottom of the barrel (they buy it through me and want the cheapest low end garbage available).

Get a decent alarm, it will include key fobs for remote activation, activation display (you’ll never wonder if you turned it on or not) and also a PANIC button to set off the alarm. YOU probably don’t need one of those monthly monitoring systems, in this recent case it wouldn’t have helped you anyway.

You can PM me anytime if you get dealer questions or need other info.

Sorry to hear it happened, glad nobody was physically hurt.
You’ll soon relax enough to return home, it’s YOUR home and THEY left it, not you.

EDITED TO KEEP TIGGER BOUNCING.

You know Oz

In reply to I rep such systems too

You can’t spell for beans but your heart is in the right place! That is just one of the things that I love about you.
😡

Spelling

In reply to You know Oz

Tig, I can spell just fine, in fact I have always had a far better command of English than most others I’ve known.
I just can’t TYPE worth a damn. When I was in school, typing was for f*gs, all the cool kids were in shop.

Just like piano, keyboards, I could always play just fine but my improper use of fingering made my music teachers cringe.

I have played with typing tutors but never stuck with them, no time for improvement, I have to type. 🙂

My common mistakes:

I orpha nletters.
I reveres letters (‘teh’ is popular for me)
I use English/Candian words, coloUr or rationalise.
And I often miss letters as I fumble along too quickly.

But for the most part, my spelling is good (in handwriting for example, my handwriting has always had many fans and jealous girlfriends)

SOMETIMES, i will actually spell check a post, but these forums usually do not warrant enough of my attention to keep going over and reviewing posts. My big PO is when I DO edit a post and then submit corrections, only to quickly notice more typos. I

usually just don’t bother, writing copy is something I have always done for a living, I also have a couple of editors who go over it as well before submitting, so I have learned to get lazy with spell checks over time. I just come up with the copy, typing is not my job.

HEY!!

In reply to Spelling

Typing may be for f*gs, but when I took it in the 70s I was the only male in the class.

LOL

🙂

HEY HEY

In reply to HEY!!

That’s just what it was like when I was in school. I am not stating it myself as how I feel today.

I did take mini foods a GREAT way to meet girls and, at the time, make ‘magic mushroom’ pizzas in school(Hey it was a long time ago now, okay?) ;).
They had a program with 3 shop classes (wood, metal, drafting) and mini foods, so you could get a feel for each. But back then, it was MEN were in shops and ‘not so manly men’ were in home economics classes.

“But back then…” You’re right!

In reply to HEY HEY

And if I knew then what I know now I’d have taken home economics, just to bake a few cookies.

Does sewing count?

In reply to “But back then…” You’re right!

I was the only male in the class a few years ago. Came in handy. Shortly after I got my own sewing machine, I managed to blow my shirttail to shreds (fumbled the draw with a 45 automatic). Sewed it back together.

If they invade my space, I’m not sure of which method I’ll use.

Santee, buddy

In reply to “But back then…” You’re right!

The sewing machine might win you points for creativity. I guarantee that the .45 will win you points for efficacy.

😀

Sewing is cool.

In reply to “But back then…” You’re right!

I can use a needle and thread but I haven’t run my wifes sewing machine. I’m staying away from it. Don’t want to break anything. I repaired my black leather motorcycle jacket by hand. It’s so old the seams were coming apart in three or four places. Had to cut the lining to get to ’em. Looks good enough for me. My seams will last another 20 years.

Right now I’ve got that house-husband thing down. I’m a cooking, cleaning and organizing machine. I do it all, windows too. Being off work for over two years made me learn how to do it. It was either that or go even crazier than I already am.

Fixing leather

In reply to “But back then…” You’re right!

While you are right in that you need to pull the lining in order to access the seams, an easy fix is to use kids contact cement. I actually sold leather clothing when a lo tyounger. A teenage pervert measuring up women’s leather pants and skirts and refits (leather always stretches in the seat) man what a job!

But most repairs (and even new jackets and custom riding leathers) are sewn with a lot of glue to hold it all together longer. I’ve fixed so many leather rips for myself and friends with a spot of contact glue, amazing how well it works and how good it looks. 🙂

NO SEWING DOESN’T COUNT

In reply to “But back then…” You’re right!

CEASE & DESIST IMMEDIATELY OR ELSE. :p

Now if you all don’t stop this Traitor’s Talk of Sewing I’ll be unable to prevent your long term incarnation in the Lonny Bin under GG Desk at work. The one without any light ever very little air allowed like 3 CC’s per decade and lots of sharp needles to poke you lot with.

OH OZ no more talk of repairing cloths either no matter how you dress this up it’s unacceptable.

NOW CEASE & DESIST IMMEDIATELY!

I can’t remember why I signed up for typing

In reply to HEY HEY

Couldn’t have been the cheerleader who always wore miniskirts, had long brown hair and beautiful brown eyes.

Well, anyway, the typing class did pay off later.

ATTN: OZ!!! Security Cameras and DVRs

In reply to I rep such systems too

Hey Oz, you have any recommendations for home security cameras and a DVR to go with it? I’m looking for cheaper, but not crap…

Value for money

In reply to ATTN: OZ!!! Security Cameras and DVRs

There are many options, I rep Cameras for one company that exceed 20K ea, and others that are like those cheesy webcams from Best Buy.

A GOOD quality and excellent value is with Channel Vision. They make excellent products, the entire system with IR repeaters, DVR, web access if you wish to check in from the hotel and all the video modulation etc. You’d have to find a local dealer for proper installation (generally low voltage electricians, mhome theater installer, structured cabling installers , and even alarm installers) Channel Vision is widely used and should be easy to source in your area.

Just stay clear of teh big ad alarm company with monthly monitoring, a free sensor, install etc. Just find a good electrician and have good prouct installed, you can manage it yourself with ease.

Here’s what you do, area floodlights of course. Outdoor, low lux cameras, most are now, Channel Vision has some pretty covert models with amazing quality http://www.channelvision.com/index/45

An outdoor, vandalproof, high res (550 line)colour camera will run you less than $500.00 (You’ll be able to clearly see a burglar’s zits at midnight) but the range is between about $200 – $500 (Canadian list price).

Run the camera into a Network DVR (DVR-4JN or just a plain one if you wish) less than a grand.
http://www.channelvision.com/index/45

YOu’ll then need a modulator (hundred bucks) and a channel filter ($50.00) and you can view your camera on your TV. You can also see form a hotel, on the road or wherever yo uhave an onternet connection.

It adds up, about $2K maybe less for the hardware, installation can be costly depending on whether there is retrofit wiring or new cat5 runs needed, which you can do yourself if you feel so inclined, it’ snot that hard to set up and configure.

Oh yeah, IR repeaters. If you want to hide the DVR or lock it up, so tapes cannot be stolen, you will need a small IR Repeater wired to an emitter in a more accessible area for your remote to control the DVR.

YOu can run IR over coax too if need be, Channel Vision also has that stuff too. Like i say, it will be easy to find a local installer, even try Channel Vision for help. Get a decent price as it is a competitive market and everyone stocks Channel Vision.

In the end, and especially at this time, a few grand is NOTHING for the peace of mind you will have. Not to mention the condemning evidence if it ever happens again.

ty oz!

In reply to Value for money

I’ll be equipping my house soonish 😉

Thanks for the advice Oz…

In reply to I rep such systems too

I have an electrician there right now installing more flood lights. We don’t have enough coverage so we are adding a few. One bad thing was that one of the lights (the most important one) blew the night before. I checked it to make sure it wasn’t intentional, it was just convenient for them.

I am looking at the Swann SW-C-BLACKK. 2 of them should cover the entrances to the yard and house. They have about 50 ft visibility at night which is better than most I looked at. They are wireless which will make them easy to install but I may decide to hard wire so I can get better cameras for cheaper. Any thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated. I already have a MythTV setup routed around my house so I can utilize that for the DVR and house wide viewing I believe.

I am getting alarm system quotes now. I don’t plan on going cheap and want to have all accessible windows and doors monitored. I know it would not have helped in this case, but it will protect in the future.

Alarms and Cameras

In reply to Thanks for the advice Oz…

NAPCO Security (http://www.napcosecurity.com )makes a great alarm, and their key fobs are EXCELLENT!!! AMX is okay but very common and rarely see anything new from them. If you need to find a NAPCO dealer, let me know or they will help via the website.

Cameras, see my post right above this one for recommendations.

First, Naughty

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

I am so sorry that this happened to you and your family. Making it even worse is that you don’t feel that you can go home.

That will pass in time. Be aware that it WILL take time.

While you probably won’t sleep much, resist the urge to use a sleeping med or drink to impairment. If the crap hits the fan again, you will need to be on your best game.

Read Oz’s post above. It has some great information. If you need to find a dealer of security systems, peer me. I used to rep CCTV systems. I still have contacts for equipment.

A final thought- call your local PD. It is likely that they have a Victim Assistance program in place. Where I have lived, that included an assessment of your home by the local PD along with an increase in drive-bys for a period of time after the incident. Law enforcement wants you and your family to feel secure.

Unfortunately, I have been there and done that. Details aren’t worth going into but the net result is that I am still here. And that is what matters. As Oz points out, THEY left. YOU didn’t.

Sounds to me like you did well. The point of that drill was to keep breathing throughout and after.

Thanks…

In reply to First, Naughty

I have been robbed before, just never at home. That makes it a lot worse. I have been looking at Swann equipment for cameraa mostly on NewEgg. I would love to hear what those with experience in the field think about the Swann SW-C-BLACKK. I am also trying to decide on wireless vs wired. I could do more with wired but it will take longer to implement.

You did it right

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

NEVER EVER EVER EVER resist. By acquiescing to their demands, you saved someone from being hurt. I know it’s hard to accept, but if they have guns, your only option is to let them have what they want.

It’s clear you were targets and had most probably been followed home. Here are some banking safety tips:

1) Do not make big withdrawals from the ATM…Stick to a max of say $60

2) Try NOT to use cash, if possible. In many states it is now illegal to print the credit card number on receipts. If it is on there, just scratch it out, save for the last 4 digits.

3) Try to take various routes home, if possible, this will let you know if you are being followed

4) Try to clear your property of any areas where folks like this can hide.

Fence?

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

SInce you said happend in backyard, I guess you don’t have a fence? Or not high enuf?

IF you already have a fence, you can plant spiny plants on the inside of it so can’t be jumped over, large Agaves (a bit invasive) or spiny columnar cacti, or for your area, probably the trifoliate orange.

There are some medium and small varieties, and most have spines at the tip of each leaf, and a waxy substance on the tips that irritates where it jabs you. When it gets too big you can always chop it down and make tequila!

‘Fire sticks’ euphorbia (sold in small sizes in most home depots / walmarts) are just green sticks with reddish tinge, no leaves, that grow up into a large mass. When you cut them they exude the typical Euphorbia sap, which is toxic if you leave it on your skin. Any burglar who would break thru a fence of this stuff would have red rashes for a while afterwards.

Prickly pears – the flat pad shaped cactus – will grow most places and the fruit can be made into jam. There are almost spine free varieties so if making a fence get ones with both the tiny spines that look like fuzz and are hard to get out and the large spines, a single one sticking out of each cluster of glochids (the tiny spines).

the relatives with round stems and extreme spines, the chollas or jumping cactus are very nasty to a burglar (or pet) as the hooked ends mean hard to pull out and if you grab it with other hand to pull out then both hands are stuck in it. And the segments break off if you brush them so you have this ‘teddy bear from hell’ sticking to your clothes (or skin)

The nice part about planting these, instead of putting an ‘Addams family spiked fence’ and having Lurch out there sharpening the spikes, is that instead you are simply a fun loving healthy gardener (insert halo), not someone out to skewer would-be intruders 🙂

much hardier than regular oranges, it is used as rootstock for grafting so is widely available, has perfumy lemon shaped fruits that are NOT edible (I’ve seen it growing in the New York botanical garden outdoors). Some govt agencies use this as a border. Tall spiny cacti such as the Argentine Toothpick (5″ spines) if water is short.

Then all you’d need to pay for would be a locked gate. or make your yard accessible only by coming thru the house but could be inconvient for her.

The only problem…

In reply to Fence?

is our parking is behind our house. We have a 6 ft privacy fence on the back and one side, but the side with the driveway, there isn’t much we can do.

add a gate

In reply to The only problem…

with a remote?

I’m so sorry.

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

First let me say I’m so sorry your family and especially your children were subjected to such a thing.

I think the most feasible suggestion I could give you is to get a dog. It doesn’t have to be a large guard dog, or a vicious animal… just a pet who will clue you in when a stranger is around. As a matter of fact, the smaller dogs, like Jack Russel Terriers are great for this purpose. Someone with a gun isn’t going to be afraid of a big dog anyway, but a smaller, more vocal dog will alert you to possible danger, and you’d be surprised how protective they can be of their “pack.”

Like I said abouve…

In reply to I’m so sorry.

I have a Shar Pei and I also have a Pekingese. I think one of the problems is that there are a lot of stray cats in our neighborhood and the dogs are constantly barking at them that we didn’t know to take them seriously.

Damn dogs need to quit crying wolf, or maybe I should just round up all the cats and send them to the shelter.

NM, I am sorry about the bad experience you went through

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

But I am glad no one was hurt. This is a nightmare that seems to be coming more frequently true than should be.

I cannot add to the excellent advise on how to be more secure. (In fact, I picked up quite a few tips.) 🙂

May you and your family feel more secure in the future. I fell it will happen, but not quickly. Be brave.

I agree with previous posts

In reply to NM, I am sorry about the bad experience you went through

that it’s a terrible experience to endure, but you are all safe now, even though it may not feel that way yet.

Someone mention mentioned lighting, as you did, and another mentioned situational awareness, which i feel is lacking in almost all cases such as these.

You did the right thing and soon home will feel safe again. As an ex-cop, I can say that resistance is futile against a gun, but knowing that someone is heading around the corner is valuable information, but not something to be paranoid about. AND chances are, those guys would never consider coming back to the same residence as a general rule. BUT, your diligence in preparing is admirable, and a critical piece is that if someone does approach, that they encounter a “new” scenario, i.e., motion sensor controlled lighting….. creaps hate to be seen and scaring someone off is just that… put the fear in them.

Best wishes in the future and try to enjoy the Christmas season as intended, in YOUR home, safe and sound.

Jerry

Norty . . . . .

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

Have two infra red enabled cctv cameras, one mini screen and a mini pc with hdd that holds 8 days worth of front and back views.

Don’t live in that bad an area, but no point in taking chances as HOB runs pc and laptop business from home.

PM me if you want more info.

If you want a dog, get a German Shepherd – that’s how I got started in THIS game!

(How’s little’un doing, btw?)

GG

thanks…

In reply to Norty . . . . .

You never think it will happen to you until it does. Our neighborhood is pretty nice in the middle of two very nice areas, but when you are a target, it doesn’t matter where you live.

I think my Shar Pei is great, he’s mean if you don’t know him. I almost lost him once because he knocked a kid down that was bullying my son in our yard. He didn’t bite, he just scared him. It shows how loyal he is though. Luckily they didn’t take him, we’ve had him since he was born.

Sorry to hear that

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

It sounds like you got every thing under control. Or as much as possible. It may be a long shot but I hope the bank has something for you. Don’t wait to go to them though, the local community colleges here told me if we needed their tapes we had to request it within 24 hours. The banks SHOULD keep theirs longer.

The only suggestion I was going to make was that some security companies will install a minimal alarm system for free when you subscribe to their service for 2-3 years. But it sounds like you already know what you want to do there.

Good luck.

Been there

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

I didn’t have a gun to my head, but had someone drunk and on drugs trying to break into my apartment. It was so bad that while I was on the phone with 911, they told me to kill the person if I had a gun. No gun, but a big @$$ knife gave him something to think about. Fortunately, I was in an apartment so it was easy for me to just walk away. I broke my lease, and got full refunds on all deposits on the grounds that the area was not safe. I couldn’t sleep without the lights on for 6 months as this had happened at night. I also couldn’t sleep in that apartment unless it was daytime.

This Is a Regret of Our Times

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

I am sorry to hear that you had this experience. I hope that you all get over the trauma quickly and recover to an ordinary life again.

Home invasions were pretty common when I lived in South Florida. It seems they have spread throughout the US along with car jackings, mall violence, and other criminal acts that are on the rise.

It sounds as though the criminal actors had you under their surviellance as the timing of the event and focus was on the money.

Wireless cameras are easy to install but susceptible to hacking methods; typically man-in-the-middle attacks. Hence, you could be misled by what you are viewing. It is better to go coaxial if possible. I would also design the approaches to your home so that there is a buffer zone and potential threats are standoff rather able to get directly to your doors or windows.

I fear that in the coming future not only this kind of crap will increase but also radicalized Islamics will also begin increasing thier chaos.

We should remember that we have a right to life and the right to defend it. The US forefathers did not write the right to bear arms into the US Bill of Rights because they thought Americans needed to hunt. They felt humans had the right to defend their life.

In many states they have passed laws in which people can defend themselves with lethal force and no warning if they deem they are in eminent mortal threat. You should look into the laws in your local area. Florida has the law and a 70 year man in Plantation killed an assailant as they robbed him.

I’m really sorry to hear about your experience.

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

I’ve learned a few things from it.

I’m fairly paranoid as it is. Our house is a cracker-jack box when it comes to being secure. Not much I can do about it right now.

FWIW: I’m surprised that no one else has mentioned the possibility that the bank teller might be in on the whole thing. She’s in a perfect position to target individuals that have money. All it would take is a simple phone call. I’d go to a different bank branch if it was me.

Like I said, I’m paranoid and I know it. Been around too long and have seen too much of what goes on in this great civilized world that we live in.

Another idea

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

Buy a bigger gun. From what people tell me here (on TR), that’s how you are supposed to protect yourself against intruders. They are never a problem if you are armed, because the cops sure as hell aren’t going to help.

God, what a sad mindset that is.

What are your thoughts? Do you think you’d have been better off if you had a gun at the time too? Or would that have simply caused SOMEONE to get hurt seriously, perhaps you or a family member?

Absolutely not

In reply to Another idea

A gun would have introduced a bigger problem.

Using a gun for home defense is a great idea if I am in my bedroom (second floor) and someone enters the house (first floor). If I have heard the entrance, I have time to remove the gun from the nightstand and get my ass into the bathroom and hide in the shower. What I hope for is that I haven’t been heard. If I have been, the shower is not a common place to look. If I am discovered, I shoot. But I am shooting at an outside wall with a bullet that is designed to not travel after it has made impact.

It requires a great deal of training to know when to shoot. What you are hoping for is that the idiot that broke into your house found your purse (and therefore, wallet) on the kitchen counter and will be satisfied with that. The gun is really Plan B.

Plan A: zig-zag stitch

In reply to Absolutely not

M’lady knows, doesn’t she?

Yep

In reply to Plan A: zig-zag stitch

I do. But a buttonhole is more attractive. Either gets the job done.

Just baiting

In reply to Absolutely not

You know me, of course a gun would be a stupid idea when facing an armed burglar. Absolute lunacy would be more accurate.

I know you have made you case clear and i respect that you are a responsible gun owner, as are many. Not to go down THAT road again, but responsible or not, it is too common for thieves to acquire/steal guns from legal owners. That would be my only concern towards someone responsible such as yourself. You must admit though, there are too many IDIOTS who are legally armed in the USA, I am sure there are in Canada too, but it’s a little trickier to say the least. Plus they really can’t be carried around, so getting mugged wouldn’t lose your gun.

If it wasn’t for fools who can easily get a gun, I would not be in support of tighter gun control. Unfortunately, those who are idiots, ruin everything that should be a normal responsibility and therefore in a case such as a lethal weapon, I have to stand against US gun laws for the most part.

I understand

In reply to Just baiting

Only one of the many firearms we own is where I can put my hands on it easily. And we’re looking at a box with a biometric lock to reduce that risk. Every other firearm is in a safe that isn’t moving and will require wall repair when we sell this place. The key is well hidden.

I have held concealed carry permits in several states. They generally require that the carrier have a level of training. I have taken that training and more. I won’t lose a weapon I am carrying in a mugging.

If I am forced to shoot, I will win. Unlike Han Solo, I shoot first. And I practice. But you have to be pretty determined to find me. Only if you find me, after invading my home, will the situation have escalated to that point.

Yes, there are idiot owners. We try to stamp that out.

Agree totally!

In reply to Absolutely not

It requires a great deal of training to know when to shoot, and a great deal to know HOW to shoot. Two reasons not to own a gun, if you don’t and you just want one for “personal defense”:

1. You know you’re not going to shoot it on a regular basis or educate yourself. What I carry for defense is a compact .45. It is very concealable (I have a permit to conceal/carry) and nice to shoot, very accurate. I shoot often enough (with this particular gun, no two are ever the same) that I can tape over the sights and still keep my firing group (up to twenty yards anyway)in center of mass on a target. Practice regularly or you can’t shoot whatever you are aiming at, even if it’s less than a few feet away. When it’s tucked away for home use it’s in a fingerprint safe in my nightstand locked and loaded, kids can’t get in it but it could easily be stolen…I just want to keep the kids out but I want to be able to draw within seconds of being woke. I keep the 1st 2 rounds loaded with low grain ammo that is designed to fragment upon impact and not penetrate walls (much) and the rest are high grain hydra shock that will pretty much shoot you through my bedroom wall, the refrigerator and the front door…firing these aren’t safe unless you need it because you can shoot through one side of a car, out the other and through whatever was inside the car.

2. You don’t know %100 if you are committed to use it. A gun is a tool, you use it for a purpose. Don’t pull it unless your next action is firing at someone/something. If you try to threaten someone with it, you stand a big chance of getting your butt whipped and your gun taken. Most cops will even tell you this.

What Are You Thinking?

In reply to Another idea

The ‘Bad Guy’ obtains a weapon whether that is a gun, knife, baseball bat, ninja star, nunchucks, etc… He has an INTENT to do harm. The modus operandi is to create an differential between him and you in his favor. How much training do you think he has in handling the weapon?

On the other hand you and your innocent family have a right to life, a right to a secure home, a right to property, and a right to a secure family. Hence, you have a right to protect and defend those NATURAL rights that are found in your innate make up. You can and should remove the differential leveling the playing field.

Many people have concealed weapons permits to carry firearms and knifes on their person for this very reason. It is a judgement call on each individuals part when to take up arms in response to life threatening actions and there is a principled guidance that people can fall back on in making these difficult decisions.

The bottom line is that by allowing these ‘bad guys’ to use these methods against you, not only are you risking the spilling of innocent blood of your family without response but you are inviting continued and increasing violence.

I think it would have been worse…

In reply to Another idea

I wonder what would have happened if my son would have called the police. If they would have pulled up in the process they may have shot someone. Since they just left I think it was the best way.

However, the police are not very helpful and due to an annoying Hwy Patrol that lives on the corner who thinks everyone in the neighborhood id selling drugs or something else, they didn’t seem to investigate too hard. They didn’t even take fingerprints from the door they used to get in. Neither had gloves on.

I have called that cops supervisor. He got in trouble a few years back and they transfered him to another division. Maybe this time they will put his dumb a$$ at a desk. If I don’t hear back from the police soon I will contact the paper to see about getting the story out and forcing them to do their job.

NM

In reply to I think it would have been worse…

How’s the family now? Are they doing better? I’m so sorry this happened to you and your family, how horrifying!

You know, it might not hurt to talk to a professional about this. Sometimes a traumatic event like this can have lingering psychological effects.

I truly hope the best for you and your family. Have a wonderful holiday and don’t let the criminals ruin your quality of life!

Thanks Mae…

In reply to NM

I am looking for someone we can go talk to. The kids have spoken with the counselors at school, but we need to do it as a family.

I have been robbed at gunpoint before, but at your home is 100 times worse.

I’m fortunate

In reply to Thanks Mae…

in that I’ve never experienced that. We had our house broken into when I was a kid, but we weren’t home. And I’ve had my car broken into, but that was an annoyance more than anything.

I can’t imagine how scary that must be. I’d definitely need some counseling. It’s so easy to live your life in fear WITHOUT someting like that happening.

You’re right, it is

In reply to Thanks Mae…

The school may be able to direct you to a Social Worker that has some experience. So can the cops. I know that you haven’t had much luck with them but check into the Victims programs that they have.

Also, speak with your pastor. He may have some ideas as well. He may also have some contacts.

If you can’t find a resource, take family time to talk together about what has happened and how you feel.

Aside of that, YOU need to find someone you can talk to about how YOU feel. I know other men in this situation that have some very definitive feelings that are personally challenging. Don’t ignore that.

You will get through it.

Once it settles down….

In reply to You’re right, it is

we are going to have some family talks. I think so much about my family, I haven’t really thought about how i feel about it. I tend to focus on them and what they need, but I believe we will all have to get our feelings out on this one.

I made sure my kids didn’t feel guilty for not calling the police. They did what was right, stayed in the house and out of harms way. It isn’t really the gun or the robbery that scares me, it’s the fact it was at my house with my family.

I understand that

In reply to Once it settles down….

When your family is in the sights, everything changes. I understand that.

I also understand that right now, your focus is on your family. That is not a bad thing. I was only trying to let you know that at some point, you will need to work with you. And that is okay.

I pray for you and your family. I KNOW that you can get through it.

Counselling & Avatars

In reply to I think it would have been worse…

NM have you looked at your avatar? It is a little disturbing. It appears you may have a passive-aggressive tendencies. In the real world you failed to take earnest action against a real threat and cite peace-loving intentions but then your avatar clearly indicates a violent tendency. You may be undergoing some sort of life struggle and in need of serious professional help.

Maecuff could have some good references for you for psychological help as she has most likely spent some time getting professional help.

My avatar…

In reply to Counselling & Avatars

is what the users I support make me want to do to them. 😀

And who said I was peace loving. I would gladly disembowel the criminals who invaded my property and threatened my family while they watch in fear.

I don’t want hand guns in my house. I have 2 rifles and a shotgun, but in a home invasion situation it is suicidal to run away from the attacker to go get your gun. As Tigger said, if you have time to prepare for the intruder, that is when they should be used.

edit since the keyboard moved and caused me to mis-type.

NM

In reply to My avatar…

Edited: it’s just not worth it.

You just CAN’T stay away..

In reply to Counselling & Avatars

can you?

I think you’re sweet on me.

Near as I can tell

In reply to You just CAN’T stay away..

He’s had the raging bone for you since time began.

Pretty pathetic on his part, don’t you think?

Well

In reply to Near as I can tell

I can understand WHY he’d have the raging bone for me. What man wouldn’t? The pathetic part is the childish way he tries to get attention. Silly really.

Extremely

In reply to Well

We all know how hot you are. The fact that he has pulled his pathetic BS in a serious thread just tells us all that he is reaching and can’t get what he wants.

The word “loser” is resounding. Could that be the right word???

Go HOME, Mr. Miami. Leave this community alone!

What do the words

In reply to Counselling & Avatars

F*ck off mean to you?

I am about sick of the way you try in your pencil d*ck way to attack her.

You enrich this community not-at-all with your crap.

Ohhh Palmie,

In reply to What do the words

They’ve both been feeding the troll again…..

James

This is true..

In reply to Ohhh Palmie,

Slap him for me, would you dearie?

Yep

In reply to This is true..

Me too, please!

Just Posting the Obvious

In reply to Counselling & Avatars

IRT to getting a weapon to defend yourself, you put a wallet in your hip pocket why not don a weapon too?

IRT to counseling I was simply pointing to an apparent conflict that manifested itself in a unique way.

IRT Maecuff, Spanky, BuckWheat, and the rest of the gang, I posted honest meaningful postings sometime ago and it was your pathetic crap that brought the forum down not mine. I just joined the crowd because there was nothing productive going on here. Perhaps you should heed your own advice.

Really..

In reply to Just Posting the Obvious

You didn’t make a comment about my getting professional help? I didn’t respond to ANYTHING you said until YOU brought ME into it.

Mae, you have the floor

In reply to Really..

But I have this shovel handy. Perhaps I can remove this pile?

Mr… “Fluxit” (as he seems to dislike his former name) seems to need a grip. He should probably follow it with a clue.

Be my guest

In reply to Mae, you have the floor

It’s really not worth the effort. But he’s kinda like a scab, you know? You just can’t help picking at it.

MAECUFF Your memory is faulty

In reply to Really..

I quote, “You know, it might not hurt to talk to a professional about this. I’d definitely need some counseling.”

You were already in this, I did not bring you into anything.

Okay, tool..

In reply to MAECUFF Your memory is faulty

I’ll point out the obvious and say that I posted that comment to NM. Not to you. You’re the one who felt compelled to comment on it.

Fluxit, baby… you caught me in a mood

In reply to MAECUFF Your memory is faulty

A shovel swinging mood to be certain.

GET OFF MAE! Just stick your tail between your legs and just GO! Who knows You might just enjoy having something between your legs.

You are escalating and you know it. You have nothing of value to bring to the table so you go after our most popular peer. Do you KNOW how sad that is?

Don’t invade our space. I guarantee it will go badly for you. And get off Mae. Attack me. I’m a whole lot easier to pick on.

ish.

Tig

In reply to MAECUFF Your memory is faulty

he doesn’t really bother me. He’s a harmless blowhard.

I really think he loves me. This is all a front.

Can I hit him, Mae?

In reply to MAECUFF Your memory is faulty

Go on, let me. Let me hit him. I can do it. I promise to do it properly. Please! I’ve asked my mum and she says he sounds like a complete git and I can smack him one if it’s OK with you.

Go on.

Let me.

Pleeeeeeease…

Of course you can, Neil

In reply to MAECUFF Your memory is faulty

You asked so nicely. How can I say no?

Just be sure to draw blood or it’s not worth it.

You People….

In reply to Really..

Resort to violence incorrectly. You want to hit me? Why, because my writing is like a sword? So how are you going to hit me – Like batman?

POW!

WHAM!

kAZAM!

one very good defense…

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

Dawgs. I have 2 indoors and 3 outdoors. Small dogs inside (lots-o-barking) and large dogs outside (lots-o-teeth). Dachshunds and Chihuahuas are very effective inside. Labs, Rotts and G. Shepards are good outside.

You can determine their effectiveness by the buttons and cufflinks in their stools.

I have only

In reply to Home Invasion – How to Prevent and What to Do During

had my home broken into one time. My room mate and I were both out, but all 3 dogs were home. 85Lbs Husky pup, 108 lbs ridgback/lab mix, and 79 lbs ridgeback. We came home to 3 happy, frisky dogs, a broken window, and a trail of junk droped. Apparently we were house 2, as the police identified some of the droped items as coming from another break in.
But, I have been mugged 2 times. Its freaky, but rule 1 is do what the “man” says. The only time to resist is when you are certain you are in physical danger. Oz has the right idea, light, etc prevent these occurances, though a not so well hidden fake camera works wonders to keep out dumb riff-raff.

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