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    • #2716115

      Oh SHUT UP ALREADY.

      by garion11 ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      Get over your disturbing obsession about Bush. You are an idiot who doesn’t understand anything about politics nor the games of power. If Bush does A, you will complain Bush hasn’t done B. If Bush does B, you will complain he will do A. Bush is going to win…and US is going to sweep into Iran and Syria. Now STFU and go hybernate in a cave you stupid moron.

      • #2716094

        I second that sentiment

        by maxwell edison ·

        In reply to Oh SHUT UP ALREADY.

        .
        His tune is getting very old.

        • #2716080

          Not quite

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to I second that sentiment

          Bush is still in power so this tune is not that old yet. It will be after the elections are over.

        • #2716006

          Relax

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Not quite

          The two people who have spoken out against you (not your post) are both guilty of the exact same thing they acuse everyone else of.

          They beleive sources that echo their own feelings, they drone on and on about how Saddam was an cil dictator and mroeso that WMD do exist and will be found.

          And yes, they are just as boring to listen to as anyoe else that is firm in their convictions.
          It doesn’t mater who you are or where you’re from, as long as the opinion is different it is unacceptable. It is political ignorance if you don’t see their side and your side is just plain wrong.

          If you are from another country, you have no right to voice your opinion and nobody cares what you have to say. If you’re from America, you are just boring and stupid.

          Bush trained the minions well, fortunately there seems to be enough sane level headed Americans who don agree that war is the solution to all problems and if these people are encouraged to vote, Bush and his peons/minions/supporters will be a thig of the past and will just become anti-democratic Kerry bashers, and so the world turns.

          The number one response from Republicans, “Lefty BS, SHUT UP, or WTF?”.

          The number one response from Democrats, 100’s of links to show all the unkept promises, mistakes and world affairs screw-ups by Bush.

        • #2714808

          Economic FREEDOM will always win…

          by jcmeredith ·

          In reply to Not quite

          Your clever screed against Bush misses the point. Since you are consumed with domestic issues, consider this: The party of the American Left ran its incumbent in 1996 for re-election (he got in 1992 with a mere 38% of the vote) and they trumpeted “his” economy in 1996. Bush inherited the Internet Bubble, withstood an economic mugging (9/11) and lead an effort to keep the economy chugging forward. Today, the economic figures are earily similar to those Clinton ran on. Twelve years after Bush 41 was lampooned for not being familiar with electronic scanners at the grocery store, we have thousands of cashiers jobs dissappearing because millions of consumers like to scan and bag their own groceries. Do you blame Bush 43 for that? Cost-cutting due to the Internet is being played out in every corner of the economy. Voila! You have a jobless recovery. System Admins in Calcutta fixing network bugs in New York, etc. Other India-based workers preparing US tax returns. Did Bush 43 plan that? Or was it Karl Rove’s idea? Gimme a break. We are in a time of rapic economic metamorphisis. As someone posting at TechRepublic, you should know that. Who was president when the off-shoring was “INVENTED”? Clinton. Did you complain about those jobs being lost? I’ll bet not. With Bush 43 at the helm it’s okay to whine. Bush 43 gets something that you on the LEFT do not get: FREEDOM makes these changes bearable. Wanna help the poorest kids stuck in the worst schools? Give them the FREEDOM to go to any other school that will take them – public and private. Try that for 20 years and watch our poorest succeed academically and thrive economically. EDUCATION freedom works wherever it’s tried. I remember when the Democratic party was NOT worried about who got credit when a big problem was solved. Nowadays, if a solution upsets ONE OF THEIR UNIONS the Democrats toss it aside. Meanwhile Bush 43 will keep pushing for the FREEDOMS that will makes our lives worth living.

        • #2714763

          Very well said

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Economic FREEDOM will always win…

          .

        • #2707229

          A perfect example of leftist complaints

          by stevesm ·

          In reply to I second that sentiment

          I noticed that almost all your issues with links were negative. I would have thought that a open minded person actually interested in other peoples opinion would have included a balanced plate instead of all the negative slants on all stories. Please remember to always believe the press because the never have any personal views, and good news sells more than good news.

          If you really want discussion present a balanced list, otherwise come out and say what you mean instead of hiding behind the disguise of being a studious analytical person interested in discussion.

      • #2716091

        And he’ll really be upset when. . . .

        by maxwell edison ·

        In reply to Oh SHUT UP ALREADY.

        .
        …President Bush gets re-elected with 53% – or more – of the vote, and getting well over 330 electoral votes.

        http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=156934&start=0&tag=search

        • #2716079

          Do you think?

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to And he’ll really be upset when. . . .

          Do you think he will again win the electoral votes while loosing the popular votes?

        • #2716068

          You asked a question already answered

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Do you think?

          .
          You are so anxious to say what you want to say, that you forgot to “read” what you were replying to. (That’s the same as always talking, never listening.)

          I already answered that question – before you even asked it. Go back and read again the very message to which you posted your reply.

        • #2716053

          LOL

          by garion11 ·

          In reply to You asked a question already answered

          LMAO.

        • #2716049

          What I meant was

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to You asked a question already answered

          What I meant was, how sure are you that those will be the result? Personally, I think it is still too close to tell.

        • #2716016

          Well, I wouldn’t bet my house on it. . . . .

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to What I meant was

          .
          ….but I would bet $1,000 that I’m within 2 percentage points, and/or that GWB will win in what will NOT be a close election.

          Like I said, at 5:00 PST – “Turn out the lights, the party’s over”. (Thanks Willie.)

        • #2716042

          And by the way…

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to You asked a question already answered

          And by the way, that’s not what this discussion is about. It is about how well Bush performed during his administration, and if you look closely, some of the sources do point out a few positives, particularly for pro-lifers. Besides, if you’re a Bush supporter you should be focusing on pointing more his positives and less on violent rejections to criticism.

        • #2716019

          This always happens

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to And by the way…

          .
          These threads always grow tangents of their own. Get used to it.

          “Violent rejections”????

          “Violent”????

          Please, spare me the over-dramatization.

          And yes, I support President Bush. Therefore, I will do both – I will ring the bell of his message as loud and as clear as possible, AND I will fend off the lies of the opposition – yourself included – to dispel the misinformation spreaders – yourself included – who are trying to mislead the American public.

          If you don’t like it, too bad.

        • #2716005

          Don’t sweat it

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to This always happens

          Hey I understand your position. After all, that’s what freedom of speech and democracy is all about.

        • #2716003

          who are trying to mislead the American public

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to This always happens

          From someone who supports the Iraqi invasion!

          Nooooooo, nobody was lied to, no FALSE information provided, Bush said he’d find stockpiles of WMD and did. Bush said you would be attacked by Saddam or his allies, and you were.

          the rest of te world was sleeping though so everyone but Republicans witnessed GWB’s truth’s and promises as they became a reality. Just too bad I missed it when Spiderman told Bush where to find Osama, America’s #1 forgotten target.

        • #2715808

          Now that you mention it

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to This always happens

          Spread misinformation? What are you talking about? I merely express what half the US and the rest of the world already know. Can you deny that we jumped from a booming surplus to a history record deficit? Can you deny that over 1000 US soldiers are death and thousands others are wounded? Can you deny that thousands of Iraqis are death? I mean, these are all no-brainers.

        • #2715543

          Bush will win the popular vote too!

          by berthbriggs ·

          In reply to Do you think?

          We only have 47 days until the election and anything could happen but right now the Kerry campaign is stuck 35 years in the past because he can’t run on his non-existent Senate record. Both Candidates need to discuss TODAY’s issues!

        • #2715523

          Dont vote for that stupid Bush

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Bush will win the popular vote too!

          He is a wrecking ball

        • #2715038

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Dont vote for that stupid Bush

          Now that was profound and intellectually challenging!

        • #2714883

          We should all be so “stupid”

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Dont vote for that stupid Bush

          .
          Let’s see, he’s a Yale graduate; he flew fighter jets as a young man; he’s financially secure; he’s been part-owner of a major league baseball team, the Texas Rangers; he has a great wife and a great family; he’s been elected the Governor of the state of Texas – twice; and he’s been elected President of the United States, what will be for a second time.

          Gee, we should all be so “stupid”.

          If you compare what he’s done and what he has with what you’ve done and what you have, and if he’s “stupid”, what does that make you?

      • #2716083

        Calm down

        by aldanatech ·

        In reply to Oh SHUT UP ALREADY.

        This discussion is not about determining if Bush will win re-election or not. It is about looking back and evaluating his first term. And by the way, I like to be a bit more specific than just A or B. Can you cite an example where I complained that Bush didn’t do B because he did A and vice-versa? I also noticed that Bush supporters often tend to react violently to any criticism.

        • #2707500

          Violence Anger & Liars

          by short fuse ·

          In reply to Calm down

          It is interesting that despite the overwhelming ‘evidence’ you present, half or greater of voters (translate that as people who keep tabs on what’s going on) still favor Bush. You leftist are so easily swayed by detailed persuave arguments that are the craft of journalists. You have no core. No grasp of reality. Which ever way the media wants to blow its hot air. Many people have learned not to listen to liars no matter how convincing the argument. The liberal media has lost credibility. Yea, you can understand getting angry at being lied to.

        • #2709133

          Good point

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Violence Anger & Liars

          And I concur wholly, if you could actually explain your point ad prove that right wig media is correct and left is wrong, which is impossible or it would have been done already. Instantly discountig the left wing as being incorrect is just as ignorant as them saying the right is wrong.

          You made assertions that lefties are this and lefty media is that but hae not recognized that righties ae the EXACT same way in regards to what THEY feel are accurate reports.

          As someone who see’s YOUR news (left AND right) compared to what the rest of the world is reporting (very consistently with each other as well)I can tell you, you are seeing two sides to a story and BOTH are so colored it isn’t funny.

          Half the news about Iraq is not even making the US news, reports etc. Reportes are standing up around the world and complaining that newws is restricted in the USA and they can’t get a story aired unless it paints a positive picturue, either left or right. Thee IS no middle ground.

        • #2715028

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Good point

          I agree that we are all prediposed to believe certain information from certain sources based on our own bias’. I lean to the right and tend to want to accept what comes from the right, but not to the point that I have to suspend logic for it to be true. One of the problems is that broadcast journalist (which are predominantly left leaning) skew the news to support their positions as opposed to just presenting the news and letting the viewers reach their own conclusions. Additionally the broadcast are too short to put out any detailed information. Contrast this with the right (which dominate radio). The host are are not journalist (generally), and in the few cases they are trained as journalist it doesn’t matter. They are commentators and are paid to give thier opinions on what’s in the news.

        • #2709122

          Left media?

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Violence Anger & Liars

          Is the media left? I really don’t think so.

          “half or greater of voters (translate that as people who keep tabs on what’s going on) still favor Bush”

          Voters really know what’s going on? We have people still thinking that Iraq was directly involved in sept 11.

          As for 1/2 support Bush…
          Gore=50,996,039
          Bush=50,456,141

          “You have no core”

          Beliefs? Way down deep in side, I know killing innocent people, stacking the economic system to favor the rich, raping the environment and detaining people with out trial are all “wrong”

        • #2715026

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Left media?

          I disagree that voters really know whats going on. There may be a large percentage that do, but I also believe their is a large percentage that believe what they are fed by the media and/or other sources and make no attempt to do their own analysis of the information they receive.

        • #2714970

          Left Media – Absolutely

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Left media?

          .
          Can you say Dan “fraulent memo-gate” Rather?

          The “main-stream” media, CBS, NBC, ABC, The New York Times, The Washington Post, Time and Newsweek, are all left-leaning. Throw in the Hollywood crowd, not to mention PBS, and people are bombarded with the left-wing, Democrat Party rhetoric on just about everything. And after all, who do you think is the driving force behing all the “hate Bush” rhetoric? The “right-wing” media? Yea, right.

        • #2714949

          Right wing media interests? NEVER!

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Left Media – Absolutely

          “The practices of the press are easily discerned when one looks for the frames used by the press when it tells a story…683 articles from 116 different newspapers were examined for this study, and the conclusion to be drawn is clear: the mainstream press in America is an anti-Democratic institution. How this is so will be explained in this chapter.”

          Testimonial: “This book is extremely well researched and well written: Kuypers provides informative chapter notes and a 36-page bibliography. An important resource for information on presidential rhetoric, the rhetorical technique of framing, and the media influence on public awareness.” Choice Magazine

          – You may want to buy this one Max.

          http://www.dartmouth.edu/~speech/framing.html

          +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          [b]Media corporations give millions, receive billions.[/b]

          “Fox provided vehemently pro-war news coverage and editorials in the period before the Iraq invasion. Solomon comments, “This is the typical Karl Rove strategy of helping out those who further the agenda of the administration.?

          “GE’s has also been caught up in some controversy involving the coveage of the 2000 presidential election. Congressman Henry Waxman (D-California) has repeatedly accused Jack Welch, then CEO of GE, of interfering with the election coverage by ordering the premature announcement of Bush?s victory on NBC. Welch, a long time Bush supporter, has denied the charges. But according to Neil Gordon, investigator for the Center for Public Integrity, Welch did admit that he was cheering for Bush at NBC headquarters. He reports that after initially promising to turn over an internal videotape of Welch at NBC headquarters on election night, NBC withdrew the offer.”

          “On the democratic presidential side, John Kerry has in the past been an outspoken critic of special interest money in politics, co-sponsoring the joint resolution against media consolidation and supporting multiple bills restricting campaign financing. He also recently gave an interview to John Nichols of The Nation magazine, where he used the media democracy rhetoric of the left to express his views. But media remains missing from his campaign platform, and not one of the 400+ press releases on the website has anything to do with media issues. ”

          http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11504

          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          “Some right and left-wing groups fear that a few big media companies will gain so much power that their own right-wing and left-wing messages won?t get through. They say Big Media?s control of more of the content of what?s seen and heard by Americans means more blandness, less controversy, fewer opportunities to be heard. ”

          http://www.robertreich.org/reich/20030820.asp
          +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          “Despite an agreement in the House-Senate Conference Committee on the FY 2004 Omnibus Appropriations to include the appropriations language effectively returning the cap to 35%, the Republican leadership produced a ‘behind-the-scenes’ agreement — without the Democrats or other conferees participation — to create a 39% cap in statute.”

          “HOLLINGS’ PERSPECTIVE:
          For many years, Sen. Hollings has worked to preserve sensible rules on media ownership as a means to promote diverse news and information sources and allow local control of broadcast decisions. Further concentration, in his view, is detrimental to the discourse in American democracy and is an abuse of the public airwaves. He has been harshly critical of efforts to relax these rules, which he believes protect the public interest. ”
          http://hollings.senate.gov/inthenews_media.html

          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

          But goold ole family boy Bush would NEVER try and manipulate or fund media covereage.
          😀

        • #2714817

          So, I guess that leaves FOX

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Left Media – Absolutely

          Fox. The only place to get it straght?

        • #2714812

          No – not at all

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to So, I guess that leaves FOX

          .
          It doesn’t “leave” Fox as the “correct” source, as I will freely admit that FOX, from what I understand, leans just as much to the right as CBS leans to the left. (I say “from what I understand” because I seldom see it, as I refuse to “pay” for TV.)

          I’ve always suggested that people should get a balanced sense of the news. Read and watch sources from the left, read and watch sources from the right, try to identify and see through the slant that being presented, and make as informed a decision as possible.

          But just because Dan Rather says it’s true, doesn’t mean it’s not embellished to favor a certain agenda. And the same applies to Tony Snow and company on FOX.

          My opinions and political choices have more of a basis in a personal set of principles – a personal philosophy – not what someone may or may not “report”.

        • #2714776

          Yeah right!

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to So, I guess that leaves FOX

          Fox, now THERE’s a source!

          Maxwell,I agree.

          Form your previous post, even though you did list some left wing biased sources, the implication was that BUsh wouldn’t do this.

          My point was only that BOTH sides have thier fingers in the pudding and in fact the Republican party spends more on Anti Democratic advertising and PRo-Republica Campaigning as any, if not more as it has been accused of ignoring a vote result and upping the ownership cap of major networkd to 39% of the media. Now Halliburton has spent reidiculous amounts of money supporting the Republican campaign (I THINK I included that link). THe Repubilcan party has in turn awarded them BILLIONS in contract to rebuild Iraq, as opposed toaccepting fair bids from much smaller enterprises.

          If anything, it is shown that Democrats and Kerry specifically are against a lot of the media control of campaigns while Republicans have supported it.

          It does not excuse either party from blame though and BOTH claims and reports must be accepted equally. Something of a rarity here for sure.

        • #2714747

          Maybe so

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to So, I guess that leaves FOX

          I remember back at around August 2003, when I heard someone say at Fox News that the amount of soldiers dying in Iraq is no big deal. They would compare the size of Iraq with California, and they they would say that while our soldiers in Iraq are dying at a rate of 1.7 per day, there are 6.6 murders daily in California. What they didn’t say was there were around 150,000 U.S. troops in Iraq at that time, and more than 34.5 million people in California. So if we had as many troops in Iraq as there are people in California, and a comparable number were being killed, we would see 385 deaths per day, as opposed to the 6.6 murders in California. Yup! Fox is the way to go.

        • #2712532

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Calm down

          You shouldn’t be so all inclusive in your comments. I’m a Bush supporter and have never acted violently to a criticism of him. Some of the criticisms are valid even though the left “often” tries to make them more negative than they really are. Bush is not perfect, none of us are, and therefore cannot expect to have a zero defect leader. I do get hostile when someone makes a comment that would require suspending logic for it to be true. We all have our slants, and based on those slants we are predisposed to believe certain things. In the end I only request that we be intellectually honest and be prepared to support our opinions. Also, because someone says something you don’t like in defense of Bush doesn’t make them violent, and at the same time it can be said that the left is just as violent. If we’re going to have opinions we have to accept that there are opposing opinions and in reality I would expect anyone with an opinion to be somewhat passionate about it (not to be confused) with being violent.

        • #2712516

          I was actually…

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to Re:

          I was actually referring to Max’s comments more than of anyone else’s, but thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

      • #2715379

        Re:

        by vltiii ·

        In reply to Oh SHUT UP ALREADY.

        A little more colorful than I would have stated it, but well said.

    • #2716077

      so WHY is he getting voted back in then?

      by thelastword ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      Can you answer that?

      • #2716074

        Answer

        by aldanatech ·

        In reply to so WHY is he getting voted back in then?

        Because he brings huge advantages for big money making companies and corporations.

        • #2716001

          Because people feel military action is a solution

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Answer

          -Because APPARENTLY 25% of American people actually STILL think Saddam was responsible for 9/11.

          -Because people STILL think Saddam has stockpile of WMD and was planning a US attack.

          -Because Afghanistan was a farce, maybe this will be better.

          -Because Republicans wouldn’ pay any attention to anything other than a Republican statement.

          -Bcause Kerry is a war hater, not a war coward.

          -Because Bush BS’s so well.

          -Because they have been alseep for four years.

          -Because they would be walking voids if the president didn’t tell them what to think, feel, support or hate.

          -Because they simply refuse to know better

          -Because…..the reasons are endless, not neccessarily logical or sane but endless.

        • #2715991

          Here’s why

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Because people feel military action is a solution

          The reason is because it is a way of saving face for the Americans. They are inclined to support him as they are p**sed at the world right now because they feel betrayed. Bush supports this feeling of ‘us against the world’. Secondly, they have to stand by him or look stupid, none of us want them to look stupid either to be honest. They don’t know which made them weaker – 9/11 or George BUsh. If they stand by him and pull out of this whole thing then great, they will have saved face with the Bush thing. The american people feel the world is against them right now. What support did they get in light of 9/11? None, it seems. The reality of it is George Bush exploited the incident, trying to channel ‘support’ incorrectly using the war on terror as war on Saddam, with the plan enshrouded in contreversy and bulls**t. We will all fight terrorism together in the world and may have to-as soon as the US can agree with the rest of the world as to the definition of terror. George is fighting Terror by way of gaining oil and thereby severing ties with Arab states and changing the neighborhood, part of the US believes in this. We are usually just a bit behind. I bet they will let him finish the job and try and regain the money with iraqi oil and say shuvit to the rest of the world who they are mad at right now for not immediately accepting this plan of GW.

        • #2715988

          Bush supports this feeling of ‘us against the world’

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Here’s why

          Actually in recent interviews, Bush has NOT supported Americans resenting others for nto supporting the Iraqi invasion.

          With respect to France, always the nation Americans love to hate, he had said the absolute opposite.

          Bush said that he didn’t inderstand why so many Americans were against France. He added that France has always supported the USA and IS at this very minute in Afghanistan and Haiti. He said he considers the French to be valued Us alies and that just because they didn’t support THIS war it doesn’t mean that they aren’t supporting the US in other ways that are just as neccessary.

          THE REPUBLICAN CONFORMISTS ae the ones who have started the whole hate France thing, not Bush. They think that by spitting on France, they are suporting Bush, whereas they are not at all.

          See the problem with Bush is that his motives and intents are so clouded and evasively put forward that it is easy for most of his supporters to get what they want out of what he says, thus creating positive public favour. Half of them don’t even realize what they are or aren’t supporting, just that they THINK that’s what Bush would want from them. “Yes, queen bee”

        • #2715975

          You know I love these assumptions of Americans you guys spew out

          by garion11 ·

          In reply to Bush supports this feeling of ‘us against the world’

          LOL. Its really hilarious but yet God forbid, if we ever do it, we are labeled arrogant, hipocrats, nazis, terrorists, and everything else under the sun.

        • #2715973

          Assumptions of Americans?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to You know I love these assumptions of Americans you guys spew out

          I was repeating what your president had said in a live interview?!?

        • #2715925

          well thats good

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Bush supports this feeling of ‘us against the world’

          They were p**sed at everyone for awhile there. including us! Bush was just on tv 2 minutes ago talking about his ‘allies’ and who is supporting him and all that, you feel he has no favorites at this point? I believe the Americans do feel that the world was not supportive of them after the attack and truthfully we haven’t been. We haven’t had a chance to digest it yet. Reality check, the world trade centres got blown off the map. What if it was Lonsdale plus 1/2 of downtown Vancouver? Noone has really consumed the fact that there was a massive terrorist attack on North American soil.
          What ARE we going to do about it? Critisizing the US is not the answer. Critisizing George Bush is not the answer, I will back the US on anything they do, we have to. It’s our duty as North Americans, it always has been. There is no difference between George Bush and any other president. Every one of them has bombed Iraq or the middle east. The difference with this war was the internet and media. People get to talk about it with eachother and we can sit here and yap about it with actual Americans. If it were 10 years ago, we’d all be going about our business instead of sitting on a computer absorbed in world politics. George Bush is the same screwed up act we all have come to know and love from the US. It made as all think, what IF the wrong person had the american power in his hands, but is that truly what happened? Yes, he made up a line of cr*p to bomb Iraq but he was not lacking in vision completely, yes it was a screw up but the bigger screw up is that the world is judging the US so harshly. What would you rather have – the US and George Bush and we can snivel and whine on the net about it and watch it on TV or CHINA and we can end up like the dancing bears? I mean certainly Canada is not ready to be a world power, me might have powerful oppinions on the COMPUTER but that doesn’t equate to the way things play out in real life. For people who crisitize the US I only have one question and that is, how do envision the world without the US as the super power? And if we are going to be allowed to totally question the US and we want the US to hear all of the worlds complaints, how will it still have its power. I mean it hasn’t been Canada who enforces democracy in the world. We are brothers to the US and always have been. The only difference now is that we all have our oppinions out on the computer. WIll this lead to a peaceful revolution, or is it a weakness and being seen as a weakness.

        • #2715790

          There have been many super powers oer time

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to well thats good

          The US will not remain a super power forever, nobody has nor can. Canada was an extremely formidable force in the early days as a British Colony too. No country in history has been able to retain that status, yet Americans seem to think they wil always hold the keys to the world. It is THIS attitude that must be humbled, enemies attack the guy flexig his muscles, bottom line, the USA spend ALL it’s time flexing it’s muscles and 300 million citizens wae the flag and flex along with her.

          Sometimes power gets to one’s mind when that mind is incapable of holding that power respectably. THIS is why people don’t like the states, it is arrogance and wishful thinking, when the tides turn, which they will without doubt, who will be next to hold the keys and how will they display it?

        • #2715754

          You have summed up the US

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to well thats good

          Thats true of the US but they ARE leading the way whether you like it or not. WHo would you propose does it instead? CHINA? what are the options? There is no American demise, other than the one on the internet. Feeding the theory of an American demise is creating a VOID if you do not have a concept of what will fill it. What do you think will fill that void?

        • #2715743

          Maybe that’s the whole problem

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to well thats good

          Americans just can’t see what is hapening to their country. I hae been all over the world more than once, I hae NEVER in mu life met someone who thought the US is the righteous and glorious nation that US citizens feel it is.

          NO coutry can retain the title of super power, it is economically impossible. As to WHO should be the next super power, well that all depends on who plays their cards right, it’s not a matter of who I want to be in control but a matter of who WILL be in control and neither any America or myself can decide that. One thing for sure, they way that the US has been going they won’t be able to retain their ‘title’ forever and the tides WILL turn, they always have throughout the history of mankind and always will, WHEN that happens though is completely up to America.

          Who should hold the power you ask?

          That’s not a choice, it is an economic changing of the guard.

        • #2715731

          hmm

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to well thats good

          I was hoping/assuming you would say that the next power would be some conglomerate(?sp) of peaceful powers. I think you were right in saying it is economy based, I think that means CHINA, I don’t WANT that. DO you prefer an economic changing of the gaurds to a power that is not driven by DEMOCRATIC vote? Or do you prefer to stay with the democratic vote and how far would you go to protect that right given the alternative of a communist, economic power of about 1.3 billion people?

        • #2715732

          hmm

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to well thats good

          I was hoping/assuming you would say that the next power would be some conglomerate(?sp) of peaceful powers. I think you were right in saying it is economy based, I think that means CHINA, I don’t WANT that. DO you prefer an economic changing of the gaurds to a power that is not driven by DEMOCRATIC vote? Or do you prefer to stay with the democratic vote and how far would you go to protect that right given the alternative of a communist, economic power of about 1.3 billion people?

        • #2715728

          You have contradicted

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to well thats good

          By saying ‘who will be the NEXT superpower’ you have basically said that the trend of superpower WILL continue while at the same time saying it CAN’t. IF It does continue, there is no other choice on MY list than the US, barring that- NO superpower and a conglomerate of peaceful nations. I believe thats what the US is trying to enforce – democracy. Saying the people in the country are not that great is one thing (well, actually, its another thing) saying that the US is going DOWN because of that is another contradiction. Their dedication and patriotism is in fact what represents the safekeeping of democracy in this world as long as other threats exist. Do you feel there are no longer any threats? why, because of the internet? And if in fact, their very patriotism, which we have been pretty glad of at times has now turned out to be their detriment, then WHO will we have…the US as a peaceful nation like US and CHINA running the negotiations and controlling the world economy?

        • #2718513

          Maybe not seing eye to eye on this

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to well thats good

          As ar as the US not being a permanet super power, the ‘super power’ title has changed many times oer the course of history, gnerally as a result of war and economic decline.

          We don’t CHOOSE who is the next super power, America simply cannot retain it’s ‘super power’ status forever, if they do it will be rewriting history. The next super power may very likely be an Asian country, whether we like it or not, it’s just the way the cards fall.

          No matter what I want or don’t want, the super power will change heads as it always has and will change again.

          As for terrorism, NO I most definitely do NOT think we are rid of terror, in fact recent actions of the USA has increased that threat upon North America mre than it has ever been before. I honsetly don’t think Bush helped ANYONE but himself ad his business partners/bum buddies or whatever you want to call the greedy pigs that dominate North America’s economy.

          He certainly hasn’t reduced the threats against America, they have most definitely INCREASED and only a blind fool would not see this.

          The USA has gained new enemies in Afghanistan who were merely local thugs but now are forming an organization focused on terror, whether they hae al-Qaeda support or not, first stop is the Afghanistan elections next month. A democratic election that th USA had imressed upon Afghanistan, who’s interim government includes Taliban leaders who feel that Taliban should be able to vote in the upcomig election, stating that only 50-100 have blood on their hands and should be stopped from voting.

          Wasn’t the idea to remove tha Taliban from power?
          Wasn’t the idea to liberate the women and increase the natural infrastructure while providing schools and emploment for women to become a respected part of middle eastern society? Wasn’t the focus to remove Bin Laden at all costs? He would be caught no matter what, the US would not stop until they ‘got their man’ (okay a little RCMP pitch in there too).

          Afghanistan is no better than before the war, with the exception of minute details, Bin Laden has not been found dead or alive. Kandahar is still under Taliban rule. Afghani men reset America and still hate the ‘infidels’.

          So what are we to expect differently from Iraq?

          It was an easy mark to save some face.

          Unfortunately, the whole thing was revealed as a sham and has never been give any integrity since.

          Are these REALLY the people (government) that we want to hold the keys as a super power?

          Either way, it doesn’t matter, they cannot retain such status with the current wat they are destroying their economy and the trust of the world around them.

          I feel somewhat for the folks who saw this befor they voted four years ago and were stuck with the questionable results anyway. I could think of worse leaders in history, but few were actually seen as heros except by their own kind and even fewer were from what were suposed to be solid democratic nations.

          To see constant comparissons between Adolph Hitler and GWB is a scary thing. They shouldn’t be equated, yet they are by many.

          What other president has been compared to Hilter?
          Time for a changing of the guard.

          If the USA can’t prove itself capable of handling the role of super power, someone else will, not by American choice but by the sheer economic destruction by America’s president.

        • #2715963

          Just to clarify a bit

          by garion11 ·

          In reply to Here’s why

          I must say thank you for acknowledging and understanding a certain mentality of Americans.

          No, Bush supports the feeling of Us+the world against the terrorists. From the recent events in Russia and the kidnapping of French reporters (and France was against the war) you can see this is a worldwide issue…not an US issue. I’d say Americans feel betrayed and hurt for the response of the world. But our harsh response to France wasn’t because of their vote AGAINST Iraq, but it was because of the things they did to backstab us. Germany and Russia didn’t support the war, but all they did was vote against the war and minded their own business. France did some despicable things…and all for what??

          Americans aren’t mad at the world…or angry. Atleast I am not, but what we have acheived from this experience is Americans (atleast I am) are more aware of the double standards applied to American policy compared to other nations.

          Another thing is the war on terror is a war on Saddam. He was a terrorist no?? He was a bad guy?? He was a madman who killed his own people…what other justification should the US provide to YOU, when you don’t even live here.

          “We will all fight terrorism together in the world and may have to-as soon as the US can agree with the rest of the world as to the definition of terror.”

          No you go fight your own wars, we have enough. Thank you for the late recognition though of what the real problem is. Too bad it had to be a big mess before people like you saw the real evil in the world.

          No we are not mad at the world, we are disappointed, at least I am. The world is understanding what terrorism is all about, if you only believed the US when we cried wolf. Yet you called Bush a nazi, a terrorist, a killer, you called our policy arrogant, cocky, you called our attitudes stupid, blind…and still continue to do so…even after the wolf is knocking at your door.

        • #2715931

          Double standards to policy

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Just to clarify a bit

          From what I understand, the Bush had agreed that the USA would use force to complete inspections if neccessary, not invade a country but force inspections. Well this wasn’t needed, inspections were working and were being completed as scheduled in the end.

          HE then decided to invade the country and removed the successful inspectors in order to do so.

          This is not staying true to your intent or to your own polcies.

        • #2715912

          So Sue him

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Double standards to policy

          The bottom line is that we live in a democracy and therefore we can vote… on PAUL MARTIN OR ED BROADBENT.

        • #2715909

          See I told you they were mad

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Just to clarify a bit

          HOw angry can you be when the rest of the world has no concept in any remote way as to where you’re coming from? The rest of the world doesnt identify with the US. We don’t have the burdens, we don’t have the weapons. What do we have, our CULTURE and we feel as strongly about that in terms of freedom as you do about the military, we thought George Bush was screwing his OWN People to begin with, let me remind you. THAT IS what it looked like, it looked like a lot of things, it did not look like a fight against terror thats for sure. not as anyone else understands it, we think of terrorists as hidden people sneaking up on everyone, not as Saddam, similarly, your own president was as guilty for not having the VISION when the reports were in on it 8 years ago. we thought maybe he was nuts. We see now emerging, the vision and the end and the honor is in sight. Your own people didnt understand it. WHO understands war?
          There HAS TO BE a triumphant end or you have lost. None of us want that. We all envisioned what a madman would do with American power and thought thats what we were witnessing, I mean a lot of rules were broken, it COULD Have gone one way or another. You are blaming other countries because they are not on the same page with you but other countries are not the US and that is why they all got mad at YOU too. The thing that is making this situation weak is the fact that it is being exposed on the internet. That is the American weak point.

        • #2715959

          LOL.

          by garion11 ·

          In reply to Because people feel military action is a solution

          You confuse what Bush said with what he wishes you said. Its really amazing after all this time your methods haven’t changed but your bias remains the same.

          “Because APPARENTLY 25% of American people actually STILL think Saddam was responsible for 9/11.”

          Eh really who??

          -“Because people STILL think Saddam has stockpile of WMD and was planning a US attack”

          No, He does and had weapons, it wasn’t enough for you.

          “Because Afghanistan was a farce, maybe this will be better”

          It was farce?? How so?

          “Because Republicans wouldn’ pay any attention to anything other than a Republican statement”

          This shows how little you know about American politics. The democrats have said the same thing about Saddam before and after 9/11, Bush did something about it.

          “Bcause Kerry is a war hater, not a war coward”

          No he is not a war hater, he spoke against Vietnam and has had questionable (with proof) of his actions post Vietnam. Much more so than Bush.

          “Because Bush BS’s so well.”

          So do you, but you don’t see people electing you do you??

          “Because they have been alseep for four years.”

          Doesn’t make sense, clarify please.

          “Because they would be walking voids if the president didn’t tell them what to think, feel, support or hate.”

          Thank you for again showing your arrogant assumptions about Americans and revealing yourself to be the hipocrat that you are.

          “Because they simply refuse to know better”

          And we should learn from who?? YOU? and what should we learn…the lies or the truth??

        • #2715932

          Laugh it up, it may be your country’s demise not mine

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to LOL.

          Well you started to actually raise questions but ended just looking for ANYTHING to make a point, unfortunately you’ll have to make your own hat to fit it.

          As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it was reported (read from a report during a radio show) that more than 25% of Americans still think Saddam is responsible for 9/11, which really isn’t too hard to believe after spending time here. This is also why APPARENTLY was capitalized, it isn’t MY statemeent.

          You say, he does have WMD.
          President Bush was in a LIVE interview saying that there had been many misconceptions about Iraq since the war began. He then said that one issue was that they expected to find stickpiles of WMD and hadn’t. EVERYONE in the world knows that Saddam had and used WMD, you supported such axctions against the Kurds when it was in your best interests, this is no news, but also no reason to cease successful inspections and invade without following your own rules of completing inspections BEFORE invading, and even then only a last resort, there WAS no last resort needed.

          Afghanistan, have you not seen the latest from Afghanistan? Women are repressed and forced to wear the burqua in public, they are unable to safely attend schools or training programs because thugs are repressing and harassing them (thugs that replaced former security). Taliban are still in the government. Water supplies have been destroyed. Women cannot get security or funding for building programs as they are told by alied consulates that the logistics are not feasible. Men spit on and harass white reporters in the street, telling the’infidels’ to go home.
          Taliban still rule the majority of Kandahar and many suburbs of Afghanistan. There are new terrorist groups (completely separate yet supported by al-Qaeda set on ambushing the upcoming election. The Taliban leaders in the interim government have said Taliban will be allowed to VOTE and that only the 50-100 that have blood on their hands should be stopped. THe ONLY woman that held a seat as Minister of WOmens Affairs was thrown out of the government shortly after the main force was removed as she was accused of adopting western ways and encouraging women to stop wearing the bourqa in public.

          Yes, Afhganistan is back to swuare one and the people resent the allied invasion, the women in downtown Afghanistan say they are NOT free and do not feel any sense of freedom or security.

          So, when the focus and much support and funding was removed to fuel a hundred billion dollar war in a country that was of no immediate threat, Afhganistan started to move straight back to where it was. Check out some of the AFghan news sites, I saw a documentary with cameras rolling in th estreets showing just how things have returned to the old ways.

          Mu point about Republicans is that JUST like Democrats they never believe anytthing from the other side, both sides need to hear out both sides and take a little from each to find a common ground.

          The whole Kerry vs Bush “who’s the better hero thing is just a smoke screen to divert from real issues.”

          THe rest was just garbage so I have no response.

        • #2715794

          Bush’s miscalculation

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to Laugh it up, it may be your country’s demise not mine

          This is what Kerry had to say regarding this issue today:

          “George W. Bush made the wrong choices. He himself now admits he miscalculated in Iraq. In truth, his miscalculation was ignoring the advice that was given to him, including the best advice of America?s own military. When he didn?t like what he was hearing, he even fired the Army Chief of Staff. His miscalculation was going to war without taking every precaution and without giving the inspectors time. His miscalculation was going to war without planning carefully and without the allies we should have had.”

        • #2715789

          In a nutshell

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Bush’s miscalculation

          It couldn’t be said better. The BIG Mistake that the US will never live down. We aren’t talking about human rights, we aren’t talking about money, or a defcit, we are talking about invading another country without following proper procedures or taking neccessary measures to ensure your success.

      • #2715785

        Fear.

        by admin ·

        In reply to so WHY is he getting voted back in then?

        The American people are afraid. They are very very afraid and more are afraid of not voting for him than are afraid of not voting for Kerry.

        Well, thats my take anyway at this point.

        • #2718475

          Reply To: How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Fear.

          Im afraid of losing my freedom.

          Im afraid of losing my prosperity.

          Im afraid of the loss of justice.

          Its truly a a time for fear!

        • #2709058

          Fear

          by stormyfyre ·

          In reply to Reply To: How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

          You should be scared, its happening already. Check DARPA website sometime and see what their new projects are.

    • #2715994

      my 2 cents

      by itgirli ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      I find it odd that with so many people for or against Bush, a lot of the people are not even American citizens. Did you vote? (general question) As I see it, this year we have an election that stands very close. I’m a conservative, however there are a few things that Bush has done that I do not agree with. In this election we will be choosing between two evils. I will be voting for Bush because I believe he is the lesser of the two evils. Are either of them fit for the job? Not likely. But Reagan’s dead so there is no hope there. We, the people, do not get to truely pick our candidate. But I do find a “democracy” better than a monarchy. We’ll make do with what we are given and in another 4 years we will sit here once again denouncing candidates and acting like we have a choice in the matter. Maybe one day we will hit the right button and get our piece of cheese……. good luck.

      • #2715983

        The lesser of two weevils

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to my 2 cents

        Two boll weevils grew up in South Carolina. One went to Hollywood and became a famous actor. The other stayed behind in the cotton fields and never amounted to much. The second one, naturally, became known as the lesser of two weevils.

        Although many credit the movie Master and Commander with the joke, it goes back much farther than that.

        • #2715977

          i know

          by itgirli ·

          In reply to The lesser of two weevils

          I’ve loved that joke for years. I was hoping someone would catch the reference. good eye. and Paul Bettany was great in that movie.

      • #2715974

        Who to choose

        by aldanatech ·

        In reply to my 2 cents

        I am an American citizen. Back in 2000 I voted for Gore because I considered that he would make a better president than Bush. Another reason was because I personally witnessed some of the atrocities Bush did when he was governor of Texas. (Yes, I live in Texas) Now I’m voting for Kerry because I also think he would make a better president than Bush, and because I now know of the kind of atrocities that Bush is capable of as a president.

        • #2715972

          So does the rest of the world

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Who to choose

          “I now know of the kind of atrocities that Bush is capable of as a president.”

          Unfortunately, or fortunately, the rest of the world saw this too.

      • #2718512

        The lesser of two evils???

        by tbragsda ·

        In reply to my 2 cents

        While I not overjoyed with Kerry, he is not evil. We could talk about the evil Bush has perpetrated on the world, but find anything evil that Kerry has done, or proposes.

        As for waiting another four years for another chance to vote for one of two choices you don’t like, that’s your (our) fault. We make choice everyday that effect who runs for president. This democracy (republic) stuff is tough work. Like Bush said, “it would be easier to be a dictator”. Ralph Nader commented “If people followed politics like sports…” ‘we would be a better society’ [last part paraphrased].

    • #2715989

      Reply To: How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      by tbragsda ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      Hardly a day has passed that I have not read another reason to fear for the direction that this administration has led us.

      Aldanatech, please stop by Democraticunderground.com. It may help releave some of the stress.

      TBR

      • #2715982

        Well said

        by garion11 ·

        In reply to Reply To: How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

        Every damn discussion board I visit, I can’t get away from these loony lefties who have this incredible obsession with Bush. If I was a religious person I would be very creeped out by these turn of events.

        • #2715976

          Well said

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Well said

          Every damn discussion board I visit, I can’t get away from these gun toting righties who have this incredible obsession with Bush. If I was a religious person I would be very creeped out by these turn of events.

          Yes Garion, there are two political parties. Are you possibly suggesting that you have picked the one that only tells the truth and nobody else knows about it?

      • #2715978

        How does the DU reduce stress?

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Reply To: How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

        Finding people with like minds does not help, it just sates the appetite for agreement.

        PLaces like TR are much more fun, if you sit back and just read along you will see two things.

        Republicans accusing Democrats of being single minded and focused on a prdetermined conclusion.

        Democrats accusing Republicans of being single minded and focused on a predetermined conclusion.

        Republicans calling Democrats lefty BS.
        Democrats calling Republicans righty BS.

        Really from the fence it is rather amusing, when it slows down you just need to throw out some oddity and it all starts to flow again.

        A forum where everryone sees the same view is the most boring of all forums in my mind.

        POSTER ONE: “So I hear the sky is blue!”
        POSTER TWO: “YEah that’s what I heard”
        POSTER ONE: “So now what?”
        POSTER TWO: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz

        Yeah sounds like fun.

        I do not support GWB because of his actions SINCE being on office, I had no preference to a particular party before Bush, it doesn’t matter to me who you vote for, until it effects MY life, then I will rightly have my say.

        So far, Kerry has had no adverse effects on MY life or Canadian safety, he has not brought more enemies to focus on North America, Bush has and for that I resent him.

        I have seen the DU and similar Republican fan sites, they are so filled with propaganda and BS that I can see exactly why neither side trusts the other.

        • #2715942

          Reply To: How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to How does the DU reduce stress?

          Reducing the debate DU threads to ?how?s the weather? is ridiculous. Debate among like minds can be sharper, more thoughtful and through.

          How did it reduce my stress? Well for several years while most of the country was blindly bobbing its collective head ?yes? to everything I hate, it and other sites like it, was a refuge for the tired progressive. I have put in my time trying to right the wrongs as I see them. Sometimes we all need to be in the company of like minds.

        • #2715930

          I don’t like conformity

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Reply To: How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

          And as much as I don’t like Bush, I think the DU has gone overboard with many claims against Bus, thus diminishing the effects of actual facts against republican claims.

          Some stuff is actually valid but much is so inflated it diminshes the rest.

          I can talk to a plant ad not get an argument, debate fuels though (or at least it’s supposed to).

        • #2715783

          Reply To: How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to I don’t like conformity

          I hope the comparison to a plant was not meant for me. As I said in the post below, Im not a spokesman for DU, just wanted to point out a more political related site that anyone might want to check out.

          Debate happens everywhere, not just the Internet. I must stand for my principals everyday with everyone I meet. While I have the benefit of living in a predominantly liberal area, I have had to endure years of conservative nastiness, while Canadians can watch from across the line. You said in your post, “I had no preference to a particular party before Bush, it doesn’t matter to me who you vote for, until it effects MY life, then I will rightly have my say.”. Well, he certainly has had an effect, hasn’t he?

          I have put my principals to the test, effecting my live, job, and general happiness. This is not just a debate, its our lives!

        • #2715777

          Of course it wasn’t at you

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Reply To: How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

          No I didn’t mean to imply you were like talkig to a plant.

          My point was that if I needed to speak without debate, I could talk to a plant and get no flak.

          I don’t need like minded people to agree with me in order to apease my thoughts, in fact a good argument is much more enjoyable, especially when it is so tunnel visioned.

          I agree with your points ad I have read SOME of the DU stuff over the past year or so, but fid it a LITTLE bit TOO far left for my taste, why choose ONE side that refuses to see the other when you can straddle the fence and see both points of view?

        • #2715765

          If I were a plant, I would be a…

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Of course it wasn’t at you

          Thanks for the clarification, just a little on edge. Its been a long four years.

          I didn’t think I was far left, but the division has been moving right so long I feel like Im about to fall off the edge! Back at the start of the war, my wife was in a bit of a controversy, and the next several weeks, they (pro war demonstrators) used her picture on their signs with the caption “don’t be like *****”. I would like to hear what the other side has to say, but its soo nasty right now. This is not the normal right/left discussion we engage in every four years, this feels very different.

          I know we say it every four years, but if things dont go well down south, were comming up your way!

        • #2715748

          Your more than welcome to

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Of course it wasn’t at you

          Yes if the tides turn agaist you and you need an escape, there’s no better place than BC.

          This place is like the Garden of Eden in comparisson to most with respect to wilderness, wild and sea life. There is TONNES of room (but keep that under your hat)and we could easily house the entire left if they need to escape from the deadly grasp of the Republican president. Drop by anytime, should you choose to return home, just don’t forget to take back more than you brought in.

          I was in a really cool creekside spot oer the weekend ad sent most of the time riding the dirtbikes, when we were leaving I saw a garbage bag FULL of junk left on top of a fire pit. A few miles down the road, more beer cans and garbage all over another little campsite area, BOTH sites had vehicles from Washington in them.

          On both occasions my friends ad I jumped out and reminded the pople that they should take it home with them, BOTH parties answered “That’s what the Forestry wardens are for”. After explaining that there ARE no forestry wardes in the area and that it is a user maintained area they understood a little better. We stopped by a creek for a bit, check the bike tie downs etc. and noticed one of the campers from Washington driving by in his pickup truck. I noticed they hadn’t taken the bag of garbage out with them so I picked it up, unloaded a bike and went after them. As I caught up, I smiled as I threw the garbage in the back of their truck and said “You forgot this, don’t bother coming back!”

          Their licence plate is now recorded by the BC Motocross Assiciation (who owns the lad) and they will be asked to leave if they choose to return to the area.

          My point, you can destroy your own damn country, we see it in practice every day. When you visit another, treat it with respect, we don’t all abuse our homeland the way our neighbours do.

        • #2715738

          BC or Montreal.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Of course it wasn’t at you

          I have a brother in Montreal (sic?). My wife and I are in CA, and have been thinking of a scouting trip to BC. We hear its great!

          Did they really say it was someone elses job to pickup their trash? I do feel like my countrymen are making us look foolish in every respect. Don’t worry about us, we try our best to keep our trash to ourselves.

          How about dog/cat stuff. BC pet friendly?

        • #2715727

          We are worse than them

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Of course it wasn’t at you

          Canadians have a bigger environmental footprint than americans at this point. !!!

        • #2718494

          Pet friendly?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Of course it wasn’t at you

          Well that’s a dodgy subject here. You see, BC has been on the politicaly correct/yuppie wannabe bandwagon for about 12 years now.

          People feel that if they have a dog the size of a Pez dispenser and carry little bags of poop around with them then they are being eco-friendly.

          My best freidn has a LARGE old lab, you would ned a good sized shovel for that old girl! He is firmly against picking up after his dog yet it is still trendy to do so, he is also not at all trendy. The concept was great but taken out of proportion. While CAMPING people have dogs on leashes (a true sin given that Camping in BC means you are miles from any other people)and they pick up after it while in the bush. Then they go and squat in a bush thmselves?!? Do they pick up their own waste too? But they do clean up after fido marks his spot?

          I dunno, if you clean up in public access areas, that’s cool and expected, but as for other places it’s just gettig a bit stupid.

          SCOUTING! I was a Scout Leader for many years and was in scouting for about 18 years total. BC is DEFINITELY the place to do it, no doubt about it!

          I live on the Northern tip of Vancouver Island now (Port Hardy) tell me if you think THIS looks like somewhere scouts would enjoy.
          http://www.ph-chamber.bc.ca/

          http://www.vancouverislandabound.com/pacific_rim.htm

          Eaqgles, Bears, Whales, Protected pristine forests, Pacific Rim National Park, sailing, kayaking, skiing, hiking, camping etc. etc. etc.

          BC is Canada’s playground, Orgeon is VERY similar as far as the views and the lifestyle, but BC still offers more variety in nature and beauty.

          The mainland is great too, Vancouver is pretty nice on the eyes, the Okanagan and BC interior is stunning.

          I have operated offices in Oregon and Northern California, lived on the Canadian East Coast (Cape Breton Island), just outside of Toronto (very short stay there)and finally out West. I am supposed to be living in England and working with one of the acts I have recently signed but it is just too magnetic to leave here so I try and coordinate their movements from here.

          If you are only a days drive down the I5, I id it hard to believe you’ve never been up the coast.

          TIPS: If you want solitude ad no tourists, come during off season (just be prepared for grey drizzly weather) we hae a great deal of rain forests here.

          If you like to see LOTs and still do some shopping/ touristy stuff, make it a longer trip, BC’s huge and there’s so much to do and see.

          I you do come up this way, drop me an email, I’d be more than glad to help you find your way around and get the most out of your time here.

        • #2714757

          “Progressive”?

          by montgomery gator ·

          In reply to Reply To: How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

          I noticed you refer to yourself as a “Progressive”. Maybe you can answer this: why do liberals call themselves Progressives, when the definition of progressive is “moving forward, advancing”? Instead it seems to me that which “Progressives” stand for is actually regressing, going backwards to socialism and less freedom, instead of forward to free markets and more freedom, forward to less government control of the economy.

      • #2715812

        Not as fun

        by aldanatech ·

        In reply to Reply To: How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

        I checked out DU at it wasn’t as fun I as TR. Most of it is stuff I already know about, and I think that a lot of it is based more on personal opinions and speculations than actual facts. It’s not that I would discredit the site, but I rather rely on clear facts. Besides, it is more fun here in TechRepublic because I get to discuss about these issues with educated people of all sides.

        • #2715788

          Im not a spokesman for DU

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Not as fun

          Im not a spokesman for DU, it was just a suggestion. Keep up the good fight. Were comming to the end soon.

        • #2715747

          That’s okay

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to Im not a spokesman for DU

          Hey that’s okay. I didn’t to mean to repress you or hold you responsible in any way. Your comments are as welcome as any other’s.

      • #2718272

        Memory Check

        by 87878 ·

        In reply to Reply To: How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

        Okay, lets do a recheck… Lets not forget some of the directions that were set FOR Bush… It?s NOT THAT BUSH SET these directions
        ? 9/11 happened – remember??? That was quite direction setting I think.
        ? The Economy – do you have any memory of when the economy tanked, who was in the WH at the time, and Greenspan’s idiotic tampering with the interest rates!!! Or is this something that the you would rather forget???

        Lastly, Iraq, I really don’t care why we went in. Dems were all for us going into Kosovo ? why not Iraq? Hypocrisy at its best. ?

        Why was Kosovo different???

        I agree we need to be in Iraq for one simple reason. A society needs to experience freedom to prosper and live as a civilized people. We can’t help everyone everywhere, but by selecting something like Iraq (so symbolic of so many of the horrors in the region — perpetrated on its own people for the most part with the WMD you all say don?t exist) and the turning it around, you can win the long-term battle against terrorism. How long can we fight them????

        The only way to win is to give a people a better option. Giving them a better life and individual freedom will make it unnecessary to look for someone to blame for their condition !!! Namely the US? and by their success, others will see things differently too.

        This ?direction? dems seem to be having soo much trouble with is the greatest threat to the terrorist game. Where will they find their followers if people are not looking for a target to blame their misery on someone?

    • #2715960

      Thank you!

      by av . ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      That is a very comprehensive list of his accomplishments. I was beginning to wonder if anyone really looked at the facts of the GWB Administration’s policies.

      I think Americans are not making informed choices when they elect their president. They are thinking about the GWB speeches that say how good things are. If you really read the facts in the articles above, you begin to see how deceptive he really is. But GWB could easily turn any of those headlines around to his benefit. He has exdellent speechwriters. He has powerful associations.

      What GWB says isn’t what he does. He always paints a rosy, patriotic vision of things in his speeches. But the truth is the opposite. He capitalizes on patriotism and fear of not being safe from terrorism. His campaign was all about 9/11. He didn’t address real issues that affect us all, like the economy, health care, etc. He is just totally focused on war.

      GWB has failed in my book. He is out of touch with the people in this country that just want to live in peace and make a living. After all, its not a big issue to him. He’s rich. His family is protected. What about the rest of us? Many people have suffered because of his policies.

      Thats why I am voting for John Kerry. He is not perfect, but he is moderate. He doesn’t seem hell-bent on going to war and offers a different way to solve our problems.

      • #2715826

        You’re quite welcome

        by aldanatech ·

        In reply to Thank you!

        Now the list should be a bit longer but some of the sites were no longer there. You will also notice I that often rely more on serious and respectable sources such as the Washington Post and CNN. What impresses me most is that some people still don’t get it. They would rather close their eyes and ears and just listen closely to Bush’s conferences and speeches (which by the way don’t happen very often compared to other administrations), and just continue to imagine that we live in a perfect world while this administration gets the best of us.

    • #2715869

      I’m Voting for Bush!!

      by marketing ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      I think it’s a damned shame that you have nothing better to do than use our format to talk smack about our President. I question whether you are even IN the USA. I for one, think he has done a fine job and I’m voting for him again!

      Lay off the TechRepublic for your personal political views.

      • #2715824

        Your reasons please

        by aldanatech ·

        In reply to I’m Voting for Bush!!

        I actually do live here the U.S. and I am a registered voter. Those sites are respectable sources and they are the ones who talk smack about our President, not me. But since you are a Bush supporter, you might want to say why you think he has done a fine job. We would also appreciate if you could tell us if any of those sources are either false or misleading; and if so, point them out and specifically state why.

      • #2715786

        Lay off the TechRepublic for your personal political views.

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to I’m Voting for Bush!!

        Please explain why TR is not for political of off topic debate. You may also want to explain WHAT TR is for and how a general discussion should be conducted.

        Then you may want to realize that these discussions are often started by lon time members or TR, are welcomed/supported by TR as they ar the most popular and a website such as this is fuelled by paticipation, not solely on content. The people who do participate in these OFDF topic discussions are generally the people who sped the most time resolving issues for others who post questions. Many of us who argue and bicker back and forth will help each other on IT related matters also.

        Thee is a need to break up the day, and if this is how we do it then so be it, chances are someone here will help you when needed and participate in other areas of the website, which I noticed you have not.

        Most of the people here have a large numer of points accumulated from helping others in the Technical Questions and Answers forum, thus showig their particiation ad support for this site and i’s main goals.

        You have done nothing and offered no assistance to any or your pers here, yet feel you have a right to suggest what is appropriate?

    • #2715724

      What has Bush really done for us?

      by clindell ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      I don?t know how anyone would want to vote for Bush, I live here in the US and despise the guy. I feel he has done little of what the said he would do like bringing us closer together as he said in his first campaign. If anything he has been a devisor separating the big business world and his religious beliefs from others who do not see things the same as he does.

      He has alienated us from having good relations from many countries and driven our national debt to all time highs that we have to pay for. Who has he helped and what has he done to help the citizens? Don?t bring up the ?new drug policy? that only helps a few, if you think that was good talk to some seniors about it. Are we safer??? Maybe, and maybe not, only time will tell.

      Maybe we are safer for the moment but what happens when those with hatred come looking to even the score 10 years from now? What has he done for the economy? Has he tightened up the H1B visa?s so more of us citizens get back to work? Has he reduced the tax break for companies that send work offshore to keep more work at home? What has he done to put citizens back to work for good pay and with benefits?

      In the world community is it OK to be looked at like the big bully who goes after thugs because he can? He elected to serve in the National Guard and disappeared off the radar screen instead of going to Viet Nam like Kerry did; at least Kerry went! And what did Cheny do? How many times was his draft deferred? Bush and Cheny are both liars and cheats and they take advantage of the citizens of our own country at our expense and I am tired of it.

      • #2715714

        Reply To: How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

        by tbragsda ·

        In reply to What has Bush really done for us?

        I started with such low expatiations that it seems hard to believe he could have done worse than I was expecting.

        I expected him to favor Big Big and Big over all else. I DID expect him to spend like… no one has ever spent like this before, so its impossible to complete the analogy. I expected him to give to the rich till it hurt. What I never expected was when the entire world was collective “there for us” he would toss the opportunity to unite to the ground and kick it around. What we have witnessed was a once in a lifetime opportunity to unite not just Americans, but a good portion of the worlds population. I hope the self-righteous thrill that people got out of eating “freedom fries” was worth it.

        • #2718519

          No worry

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Reply To: How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

          ,ost people don’t hae Americans. THey hate what America now stands for in light of GWB’s global policies or disregard for them.

          People don’t hold American’s accountable, they hold America accountable. You did nothing wrong other than be a citizen in a corrupt country, not too much you can all do about that other than vote to stop the same error from being made twice.

          All you can do is your part, VOTE, hopefully you can do better than your Republican counterparts who have proven they have nothing constructive to offer and don’t want to hear the repercussions of their mistakes.

          God Bless Americans, now go and save your country.

        • #2718517

          You are that convinced of John Kerry?

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to No worry

          Good god, GWB wasn’t THAT Bad!!! Don’t let it get to you Oz!!! You MUST get OFF THE computer and do something else for a change…?
          you are working yourself into a frenzy on here and for what- JOHN KERRY? The Americans aren’t going to go down unless they start listening to people like you.

        • #2718505

          Americans will always make up their own minds

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to You are that convinced of John Kerry?

          At no time EVER have I said I am convinced of Kerry. But I am definitely convinced that GWB is as capable of running a country as I am a marathon. The worlds sees his every move, it’s not a secret (as GWB would prefer his actions) he is in the limelight ad doing a very poor job of it.

          GWB has caused more hatred toward North America, more resent FOR America and more argument FROM Americans than anyone I have ever seen hold office.

          As for me spending too much time at the computer, this is really the ONLY site is visit as far as chat and debate is concerned. I am the first person to say people spend WAY too much time online and I despise the internet for the most part, with the exception of using it as a worthwhile tool. I am no computer geek if that’s your angle, crap I can’t even type worth a damn. Probably TR’s weakest typist. I don’t care for IT at all, that ‘s why I left the office F/T and started my own thing.

          Durig the daytime I am an oncall Netwrok admin for a couple of clients, after that it’s kayaking and car building, I can’t stand sitting at the comuter all day.

          I see your point, but I am far from the great white eyed pale skined troll that sits in mom’s basement devising a world of acceptance on the internet, I am much more of an outdoor person than a computer guy.

        • #2718504

          Not only is he THAT BAD, we learn more every day.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to You are that convinced of John Kerry?

          The list that started this thread is a good start.

          Convinced that John Kerry is not Bush, yes I am!

        • #2718318

          Yes I am

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to You are that convinced of John Kerry?

          The thing about Bush is that he is that good on hiding his mistakes and evil actions that most people hardly notice. To me, his only powerful assets are his name, that he is the son of a former president, and that’s it. Let me see if I can think of any other… Nope, that’s it. His presidential term was a total disaster and he doesn’t offer me anything that would change my vote towards him. Kerry on the other hand has a clear view and real proposals; so I’m voting for Kerry.

    • #2718455

      LOOKING BACK AT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION

      by garion11 ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      Abortion & Traditional Values

      1. Banned Partial Birth Abortion ? by far the most significant roll-back of abortion on demand since Roe v. Wade.

      2. Reversed Clinton’s move to strike Reagan’s anti-abortion Mexico Policy.

      3. By Executive Order (EO), reversed Clinton’s policy of not requiring parental consent for abortions under the Medical Privacy Act.

      4. By EO, prohibited federal funds for international family planning groups that provide abortions and related services.

      5. Upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals.

      6. Made $33 million available for abstinence education programs in 2004.

      7. Supports the Defense of Marriage Act ? and a Constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman.

      8. Requires states to conduct criminal background checks on prospective foster and adoptive parents.

      9. Requires districts to let students transfer out of dangerous schools.

      10. Requires schools to have a zero-tolerance policy for classroom disruption (reintroducing discipline into classrooms).

      11. Signed the Teacher Protection Act, which protects teachers from lawsuits related to student discipline.

      12. Expanded the role of faith-based and community organizations in after-school programs.

      Budget, Taxes & Economy

      1. Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history.

      2. Supports permanent elimination of the death tax.

      3. Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.

      4. Is seeking legislation to amend the Constitution to give the president line-item veto authority.

      5. In process of permanently eliminating IRS marriage penalty.

      6. Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.

      7. Initiated discussion on privatizing Social Security and individual investment accounts.

      8. Killed Clinton’s “ergonomic” rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.

      9. Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.

      10. Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.

      11. Signed trade promotion authority.

      12. Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches.

      13. Fight Europe’s ban on importing biotech crops from the United States.

      14. Exempt food from unilateral trade sanctions and embargoes.

      15. Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home.

      16. Created a fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled.

      17. Increased the annual contribution limit on Education IRA’s from $500 to $2,000 per child.

      18. Make permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit and provide $1 billion over five years to increase the credit to $10,000.

      19. Grant a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans.

      20. Reduced H1B visas from a high of 195,000 per year to 66,000 per year.

      Character & Conduct as President

      1. Changed the tone in the White House, restoring HONOR and DIGNITY to the presidency.

      2. Has reintroduced the mention of God and faith into public discourse.

      3. Handled himself with enormous courage, dignity, grace, determination, and leadership in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 hijackings and anthrax attacks. He almost single-handedly held this country together during those searing days:

      Just three days after the attacks, in his address at the National Cathedral, the President reassured the nation when he said: “War has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of our choosing.”

      On Friday, September 14, 2001, President Bush visited Ground Zero. Standing on a crushed and burned fire engine atop the smoldering pile at Ground Zero, he put his arm around a retired firefighter who had volunteered to help, and began speaking to the crowd. Rescue workers shouted that they could not hear him. Someone handed him a small American flag and bullhorn. The President spontaneously shouted: “I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon.” The crowd roared with cheers and chants of “USA! USA! USA!” Then he raised that American flag and rallied a nation.

      Education & Employment Training

      1. Signed the No Child Left Behind Act, delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation (challenging the soft bigotry of low expectations). The very liberal California Teachers union is currently running radio ads against the accountability provisions of this Act.

      2. Announced “Jobs for the 21st Century,” a comprehensive plan to better prepare workers for jobs in the new millennium by strengthening post-secondary education and job training, and by improving high school education.

      3. Is working to provide vouchers to low-income students in persistently failing schools to help with costs of attending private schools. (Blocked in the Senate.)

      4. Requires annual reading and math tests in grades three through eight.

      5. Requires states to participate in the National Assessment of Education Progress, or an equivalent program, to establish a national benchmark for academic performance.

      6. Requires school-by-school accountability report cards.

      7. Established a $2.4 billion fund to help states implement teacher accountability systems.

      8. Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to become teachers.

      Environment & Energy

      1. Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty.

      2. Submitted a comprehensive Energy Plan (awaits Congressional action). The plan works to develop cleaner technology, produce more natural gas here at home, make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy, improve national grid, etc.

      3. Established a $10 million grant program to promote private conservation initiatives.

      4. Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.

      5. Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary cleanup of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger.

      6. Part of national forests cleanup: Restricted judicial challenges (based on the Endangered Species Act and other challenges), and removed the need for an Environmental Impact Statement before removing fuels/logging to reduce fire danger.

      7. Killed Clinton’s CO2 rules that were choking off all of the electricity surplus to California.

      8. Provided matching grants for state programs that help private landowners protect rare species.

      Defense & Foreign Policy

      1. Successfully executed two wars in the aftermath of 9/11/01: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom.

      2. Saddam Hussein is now in prison. His two murderous sons are dead. All but a handful of the regime’s senior members were killed or captured.

      3. Leader by leader and member by member, al Maida is being hunted down in dozens of countries around the world. Of the senior al Qaeda leaders, operational managers, and key facilitators the U.S. Government has been tracking, nearly two-thirds have been taken into custody or killed. The detentions or deaths of senior al Qaeda leaders, including Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, the mastermind of 9/11, and Muhammad Atef, Osama bin Laden’s second-in-command until his death in late 2001, have been important in the War on Terror.

      4. Disarmed Libya of its chemical, nuclear and biological WMD’s without bribes or bloodshed.

      5. Continues to execute the War On Terror, getting worldwide cooperation to track funds/terrorists. Has cut off much of the terrorists’ funding, and captured or killed many key leaders of the al Qaeda network.

      6. Initiated a comprehensive review of our military, which was completed just prior to 9/11/01, and which accurately reported that ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE capabilities were critical in the 21st Century.

      7. Killed the old US/Soviet Union ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses.

      8. Has been one of the strongest, if not THE strongest friend Israel has ever hand in the U.S. presidency.

      9. Part of the coalition for an Israeli/Palestinian “Roadmap to Peace,” along with Great Britain, Russia and the EU.

      10. Pushed through THREE raises for our military. Increased military pay by more than $1 billion a year.

      11. Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia.

      12. Started withdrawing our troops from Bosnia, and has announced withdrawal of our troops from Germany and the Korean DMZ.

      13. Prohibited putting U.S. troops under U.N. command.

      14. Paid back UN dues only in return for reforms and reduction of U.S. share of the costs.

      15. Earmarked at least 20 percent of the Defense procurement budget for next-generation weaponry.

      16. Increased defense research and development spending by at least $20 billion from fiscal 2002 to 2006.

      17. Ordered a comprehensive review of military weapons and strategy.

      18. Ordered a review of overseas deployments.

      19. Ordered renovation of military housing. The military has already upgraded about 10 percent of its inventory and expects to modernize 76,000 additional homes this year.

      20. Is working to tighten restrictions on military-technology exports.

      21. Brought back our EP-3 intel plane and crew from China without any bribes or bloodshed.

      Globalization & Internationalism

      1. Challenged the United Nations to live up to their responsibilities and not become another League of Nations (in other words, showed the UN to be completely irrelevant).

      2. Killed U.S. involvement in the International Criminal Court.

      3. Told the United Nations we weren’t interested in their plans for gun control (i.e., the International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty).

      4. The only President since the founding of the UN to essentially tell that organization it is irrelevant. He said: “The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of UN demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test, and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?” We all know the outcome and the answer.

      5. Told the Congress and the world, “America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country.”

      Government Reform

      1. Improved government efficiency by putting hundreds of thousands of jobs put up for bid. This weakens public-sector unions and cuts undeserved pay raises.

      2. Initiated review of all federal agencies with the goal of eliminating federal jobs (completed September 2003) in an effort to reduce the size of the federal government while increasing private sector jobs.

      3. Led the most extensive reorganization the Federal bureaucracy in over 50 years: After 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency, the Department of Homeland Security.

      4. Ordered each agency to draft a five-year plan to restructure itself, with fewer managers.

      5. Converted federal service contracts to performance-based contracts wherever possible so that the contractor has measurable performance goals.

      Health

      1. Strengthen the National Health Service Corps to put more physicians in the neediest areas, and make its scholarship funds tax-free.

      2. Double the research budget of the National Institutes of Health.

      3. Signed Medicare Reform, which includes:

      A 10-year privatization option.

      Prescription drug benefits: Prior to this reform, Medicare paid for extended hospital stays for ulcer surgery, for example, at a cost of about $28,000 per patient. Yet Medicare would not pay for the drugs that eliminate the cause of most ulcers, drugs that cost about $500 a year. Now, drug coverage under Medicare will allow seniors to replace more expensive surgeries and hospitalizations with less expensive prescription medicine.

      More health care choices: As President Bush stated, “?when seniors have the ability to make choices, health care plans within Medicare will have to compete for their business by offering higher quality service [at lower cost]. For the seniors of America, more choices and more control will mean better health care. These are the kinds of health care options we give to the members of Congress and federal employees. What’s good for members of Congress is also good for seniors.

      New Health Savings Accounts: Effective January 1, 2004, Americans can set aside up to $4,500 every year, tax free, to save for medical expenses. Depending on your tax bracket, that means you’ll save between 10 to 35 percent on any costs covered by money in your account. Every year, the money not spent would stay in the account and gain interest tax-free, just like an IRA. These accounts will be good for small business owners, and employees. More businesses can focus on covering workers for major medical problems, such as hospitalization for an injury or illness. At the same time, employees and their families will use these accounts to cover doctors visits, or lab tests, or other smaller costs. Some employers will contribute to employee health accounts. This will help more American families get the health care they need at the price they can afford.

      Homeland Security, Border Enforcement & Immigration

      1. *See Government Reform above. Under President Bush’s leadership, America has made an unprecedented commitment to homeland security.

      2. Has CONSTRUCTION in process on the first 10 ABM silos in Alaska so that America will have a defense against North Korean nukes. Has ordered national and theater ballistic missile defenses to be deployed by 2004.

      3. Announced a 9.7% increase in government-wide homeland security funding in his FY 2005 budget, nearly tripling the FY 2001 levels (excluding the Department of Defense and Project BioShield).

      4. Before DHS was created, there were inspectors from three different agencies of the Federal Government and Border Patrol officers protecting our borders. Through DHS, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) now consolidates all border activities into a single agency to create “one face at the border.” This not only better secures the borders of the United States, but it also eliminates many of the inefficiencies that occurred under the old system. With over 18,000 CBP inspectors and 11,000 Border Patrol agents, CBP has 29,000 uniformed officers on our borders.

      5. The Border Patrol is continuing installation of monitoring devices along the borders to detect illegal activity.

      6. Launched Operation Tarmac to investigate businesses and workers in the secure areas of domestic airports and ensure immigration law compliance. Since 9/11, DHS has audited 3,640 businesses, examined 259,037 employee records, arrested 1,030 unauthorized workers, and participated in the criminal indictment of 774 individuals.

      7. Since September 11, 2001, the Coast Guard has conducted more than 124,000 port security patrols, 13,000 air patrols, boarded more than 92,000 vessels, interdicted over 14,000 individuals attempting to enter the United States illegally, and created and maintained more than 90 Maritime Security Zones.

      8. Announced the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS), an internet-based system that is improving America’s ability to track and monitor foreign students and exchange visitors. Over 870,000 students are registered in SEVIS. Of 285 completed field investigations, 71 aliens were arrested.

      9. This week, the US-VISIT program began to digitally collect biometric identifiers to record the entry and exit of aliens who travel into the U.S on a visa. Together with the standard information, this new program will confirm compliance with visa and immigration policies.

      10. Eliminated INS bureaucratic redundancies and lack of accountability.

      11. Split the Immigration and Naturalization Service into two agencies: one to protect the border and interior, the other to deal with naturalization.

      12. Signed the workplace verification bill to prevent hiring of illegal aliens.

      13. Established a six-month deadline for processing immigration applications.

      14. Information regarding nearly 100% of all containerized cargo is carefully screened by DHS before it arrives in the United States. Higher risk shipments are physically inspected for terrorist weapons and contraband prior to being released from the port of entry. Advanced technologies are being deployed to identify warning signs of chemical, biological, or radiological attacks. Since September 11, 2001, hundreds of thousands of first responders across America have been trained to recognize and respond to the effects of a WMD attack.

      Judiciary & Tort Reform

      1. Is urging federal liability reform to eliminate frivolous lawsuits.

      2. Killed the liberal ABA’s unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. The Senate is supposed to advise and consent, not the ABA.

      3. Is nominating strong, conservative judges to the judiciary.

      4. Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims.

      Politics

      1. His leadership resulted in Republican gains in the House and Senate, solidifying Republican control of both houses of Congress and the presidency.

      2. Signed an EO enforcing the Supreme Court’s Beck decision regarding union dues being used for political campaigns against individual’s wishes.

      Second Amendment

      1. Ordered Attorney General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, and is NOT a Leftist-imagined “collective” right.

      2. Signed TWO bills into law that arm our pilots with handguns in the cockpit.

      3. Currently pushing for full immunity from lawsuits for our national gun manufacturers.

      4. *See Globalization & Internationalism.

      Traditional Values, Compassion & Volunteerism

      1. Endorses and promotes “The Responsibility Era.” President Bush often speaks of the necessity of personal responsibility and civic volunteerism. He said, “In a compassionate society, people respect one another and take responsibility for the decisions they make in life. My hope is to change the culture from one that has said, if it feels good, do it; if you’ve got a problem, blame somebody else ? to one in which every single American understands that he or she is responsible for the decisions that you make; you’re responsible for loving your children with all your heart and all your soul; you’re responsible for being involved with the quality of the education of your children; you’re responsible for making sure the community in which you live is safe; you’re responsible for loving your neighbor, just like you would like to be loved yourself.”

      2. Started the USA Freedom Corps, the most comprehensive clearinghouse of volunteer opportunities ever offered. For the first time in history, Americans can enter geographic information about where they want to get involved, such as state or zip code, as well as areas of interest ranging from education to the environment, and they can access volunteer opportunities offered by more than 50,000 organizations across the country and around the world.

      3. Established the The White House Office and the Centers for the Faith-Based and Community Initiative ? located in seven Federal agencies. The faith-based initiative supports the essential work of these important organizations. The goal is to make sure that grassroots leaders can compete on an equal footing for federal dollars, receive greater private support, and face fewer bureaucratic barriers. Work focuses on at-risk youth, ex-offenders, the homeless and hungry, substance abusers, those with HIV/AIDS, and welfare-to-work families.

      4. The White House released a guidebook fully describing the Administration’s belief that faith-based groups have a Constitutionally-protected right to maintain their religious identity through hiring ? even when Federal funds are involved.

      5. Issued an EO implementing the Supreme Court’s Olmstead ruling, which requires moving disabled people from institutions to community-based facilities when possible.

      6.Increased funding for low-interest loan programs to help people with disabilities purchase devices to assist them.

      7. Revised the Department of Housing and Urban Development’s Section 8 rent subsidies to disabled people, permitting them to use up to a year’s worth of vouchers to finance down payments on homes. HUD has started pilot programs in 11 states.

      8. Committed US funds to purchase medicine for millions of men, women and children now suffering with AIDS in Africa.

      9. Heeding the words of our own Declaration of Independence, the president laid out the non-negotiable demands of human dignity for all people everywhere. On January 29, 2002, he said, “No nation owns these aspirations, and no nation is exempt from them. We have no intention of imposing our culture. But America will always stand firm for the non-negotiable demands of human dignity.” As stated by the President, they are a virtual manifesto of conservative principles:

      Equal Justice Freedom of Speech Limited Government Power Private Property Rights Religious Tolerance Respect for Women Rule of Law

      • #2718452

        Cut & Paste

        by tbragsda ·

        In reply to LOOKING BACK AT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION

        Well… I would be happy to reply, it will take some time, as I normaly wright my own copy.

        • #2718449

          Cut & Paste!?!, NOOOOOOO?? Really???

          by garion11 ·

          In reply to Cut & Paste

          Wow you are a genius for pointing out the obvious. Now STFU and post some liberal trash or stop insulting the alphabet with your stupidity.

        • #2718444

          I never will STFU. Please don’t say that.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Cut & Paste!?!, NOOOOOOO?? Really???

          Not in America. As for the ad-hominem, I started it, so lets stop it.

          I will be happy to go through each of these and comment, if you really read the replies.

      • #2718435

        Reply 1

        by tbragsda ·

        In reply to LOOKING BACK AT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION

        1-6. All relating to abortion. We will never move each other on this subject. I’m pro-choice, you will call yourself pro-life. As a matter of fact, my father is one of the murderous OBGYNs.

        7. This one I believe will prove to be a big topic. It is next to impossible to make a moral argument why gays and lesbians cant marry (or legal union). It’s next to impossible to make an argument that gays and lesbians should not be afforded the same legal rights as straight partners. The only problem is, the slippery slope. I will give you that, as crazy as it sounds, if you DO allow this, you MUST allow polygamy. The question then is where do we draw the line. You and your conservative pals have me stumped on this one for the moment. About the only thing I can say for sure, is its very un-American to NOT give equal rights to people that don’t conform to our current ideal of family.

        8. Wouldn’t need so many adoptive parents with a better education, and family planning system, would we.

        9-12. Part of “no child left behind” All total, and complete smoke. I will comment on #12. They have shown to be less than expected by all. I think I would back off this one. That plus, please keep your faith away from my child. We don’t want any part of it.

        1. WOW. How much did you get? Really. I’m not exactly part of the working poor, and I could care less about that extra bump in the paycheck. The ones that care are the ones that are soooo over our heads that their cut beat the average family income. That’s just sick. Look at the tax rate of the 70s’ or other countries. We are under taxed, and our rich are pulling away at an alarming rate.
        2. Never existed. Find me anyone that was assessed a death tax, PLEASE!
        3. Just did not. Its still crap. GDP is growing at a reasonable pace now, but nothing much to be excited about. Look back at the 90′.
        4. Don’t mess with my constitution. Why is this good?
        5. Again, just does not exist. Please read up on what you post. This is vapor. I got marriage about four years ago, returns were great!
        6. With what. Please post and I will reply. Small business has been hit, and anything anyone does to help I will applaud. (I’m a Wall-Mart hater)
        7. I’m an IT guy that has worked for financial businesses all my life. The market will always make money over time, but this is still a bad idea. SS is the most successful government program I can think of, and should be protected. Next to rural electrification, this is my favorite example of government at its best.
        8. It would have created millions of jobs. It would have cost a lot, but would have made more jobs than it cost. That, and it would have protected workers. What’s wrong with THAT!
        9. Too little too late.
        10. You LIKE this. Really, did you read this, or this post? This is simply insane. Ask anyone in finance who profited by this.
        11. I would have to look up. Much too vague.
        12. Same thing as your “Death tax”. No family farm has been lost to this.
        13&14. I think this is about genetically modified (GM) crops. I have a long debate on this, point is, the world does not want to eat this crap. We could feed the world without using this stuff, but choose not to. GM is profit motivated, not about humanity.
        15-16. I will have to look it up. Doesn’t sound like much really.
        17. School prices are high. Anyone can see that. We all need to worry about that.
        18. Will look.
        19. Too much to type. Getting tired. I will post more on it.
        20. Just did not. They stopped coming when the jobs went away.

        1. I like the idea of my president getting a BJ every so often. Kidding aside, I think honor and dignity have a big part in who I want leading my country. How many have died, have been killed, locked up during this administration. This is not a dignified administration.
        2. I’m a humanist. Back in the day, I called myself an atheist. Simply put, I like my government separate from my metaphysics.
        3. Thread in its self. He hid, ran, and generally looked like a coward. It’s a difference of opinion, but it was not his best day.

        • #2712271

          I concur

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to Reply 1

          You sure know your stuff. And let me tell you, I find Wal-Mart to be so Bush like. Bush strongly endorses it, and it is a major contributor to Bush?s campaign.

      • #2718432

        Do I get a cookie? :)

        by garion11 ·

        In reply to LOOKING BACK AT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION

        For completely shredding you dumbarse liberals. This is why you are going to lose. Instead of bashing Bush, the Democratic leadership should have come up with some constructive solutions to the problems. “Anyone but Bush” only works on jobless loser protestors, but not everyday working Americans who are busy with their lives. What a joke this party has become from the days of FDR, Truman, and JFK.

        • #2718431

          I just dont see it.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Do I get a cookie? :)

          Im not that sad for the loss of one vote, only that I cant help you see. It is my job to try, and I truley fail. This sounds backhanded, but it just is not. I wish I could do more.

          More time, and more experence will show what others see.

        • #2718430

          Yeah but I still want a cookie :)

          by garion11 ·

          In reply to I just dont see it.

          because its all Bush’s fault that I am hungry. LMAO.

      • #2712272

        Reply 2

        by aldanatech ·

        In reply to LOOKING BACK AT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION

        In a nutshell, even though these “accomplishments” look kind of nice on the outside, many of they hardly match with reality and are far from addressing many of the true issues in the country.

        Examples:

        [Made $33 million available for abstinence education programs in 2004]

        If Bush thinks its going to be that easy then he better slam his head on the wall. In theory we would wish teens would actually follow this approach, but ever since he implemented this program the rate of teen pregnancies sky rocketed.

        [Supports the Defense of Marriage Act ? and a Constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman]

        Unless to get more conservative votes, there?s not much of point for a president to be dealing with these kinds of issues. Now I don?t expect to see homosexual couples get married in a church. Each religion does have a right to set certain standers and enforce them. As citizens of the US however, we should have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness in our unique way; and if somebody can find happiness at the side of someone of the same sex then so be it. Besides, heterosexual divorce rates today are so high that they hurt the “family foundation” more that gay marriage ever can.

        [Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history]

        This is the main reason why we jumped from a booming surplus to a record history deficit. Now don?t get me wrong. I do support tax cuts but only when you can afford them. Bush?s tax cuts were so outrageously irresponsible that he probably didn?t even anticipate the consequences.

        [Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks]

        Wrong. The economy was awesome during the Clinton administration and it was continuing a steady climb. It sharply fell down shortly after Bush?s first tax cuts and the surplus plunged around August, 2001. Then 9/11 and Bush’s second tax cut made it even worse.

        [Changed the tone in the White House, restoring HONOR and DIGNITY to the presidency]

        That was basically “You are either with us, or against us”. Thanks for screwing up our alliances with the global community Bush, not.

        [Signed the No Child Left Behind Act, delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation (challenging the soft bigotry of low expectations). The very liberal California Teachers union is currently running radio ads against the accountability provisions of this Act.]

        Several months after the act, I noticed that several schools began to have budget issues that they didn?t use to have in years and several tutoring programs were cut out. Now even some libraries will soon be closed down.

        [Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to become teachers]

        Our local schools didn?t get to see any of that. If fact, we now have a shortage of teachers because some of them were reservist and were deployed to Iraq.

        [Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty]

        Their reasons to reject the Kyoto treaty were just lame excuses to help environmentally hostile companies save money. The purpose of the treaty was to agree to cut greenhouse gas emissions, which result mainly from burning coal and oil, by an average of 5.2 percent below 1990 levels by 2012. Its development began with concerns presented at the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro about the effects of climate changes; such as the movement of agricultural zones, the melting of polar ice caps and rising sea levels.

        The major concern for the US was that fines for violations of the treaty would be around the billions of dollars. Out of the greenhouse gas emissions, the one we must worry about most is Carbon dioxide, which is mostly produced by burning fossil fuels in power stations. It is naturally converted to oxygen by plants, but deforestation is reducing the planet’s ability to absorb CO2. If we go on at this rate it is estimated that we will have about twice as much atmospheric carbon dioxide by 2030, and about three times that much by 2100. But of course Bush and his buddies probably won’t be around by then, so what do they care.

        [Successfully executed two wars in the aftermath of 9/11/01: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom]

        Correction: One half-completed war and another yet uncompleted war. The US left Afghanistan without completing reconstruction and without setting a strong government that would defend it. Now the Taliban is slowly recovering power, and before you know it we will be back were we started. As for Iraq, not even the Bush administration knows when it will end. So far it resulted in over 1000 US soldiers and over 6,400 others wounded, over 20,000 Iraqi civilians, and over $144.4 billion dollars.

        [Saddam Hussein is now in prison. His two murderous sons are dead. All but a handful of the regime’s senior members were killed or captured]

        If the reason to go to Iraq was to free its people from Saddam?s regime then they should of said so from the start, not for WMDs. I find it to be a valid reason. We would have gotten more support from our allies and we now wouldn?t carry so much burned. Maybe even the UN would have supported us. This is how we did it back in Desert Storm and worked just about right.

        [Challenged the United Nations to live up to their responsibilities and not become another League of Nations (in other words, showed the UN to be completely irrelevant).]

        There is a reason for the existence of the United Nations. Let?s not forget that the US strongly declared the Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction. The right move for the UN was to send weapons inspectors to confirm this. They didn?t found any, but they were willing to keep looking if the US insisted on its statement. Well the US pulled the inspectors ahead of time and attacked Iraq only to find that the inspectors, the UN, and all the other countries that opposed this war were right.

        [Told the Congress and the world, “America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country.”]

        Defend the security of our country? From who? From Iraq? Iraq itself was a threat to us, not even Afghanistan. Those countries were only fertile ground for terrorists, but they got lots of other places to choose from.

        [Led the most extensive reorganization the Federal bureaucracy in over 50 years: After 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency, the Department of Homeland Security.]

        Well Bush strongly opposed the creation of the 9/11 commission, and it was only created because many family members of 9/11 victims fought strongly for it.

        [Started the USA Freedom Corps, the most comprehensive clearinghouse of volunteer opportunities ever offered. For the first time in history, Americans can enter geographic information about where they want to get involved, such as state or zip code, as well as areas of interest ranging from education to the environment, and they can access volunteer opportunities offered by more than 50,000 organizations across the country and around the world.]

        And instead he cut out AmeriCorps, one of the nation’s most prominent public service agencies of about 16,000 volunteers. AmeriCorps provided federal funds to more than 2,000 nonprofit groups across the country. Those groups administered a variety of public service programs, in which volunteers (often recent college graduates) tutored students in after-school programs, cleaned parks and streams, or help build affordable housing

        • #2712244

          Thanks for reply 2

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Reply 2

          I was going to reply to him, but the fact is, I just don’t thing he is reading any of the posts, even his own.

          I’m not one to turn down the gauntlet, but if the guy cant even take the time to read replys, its hard to engage.

        • #2712243

          Thanks for reply 2

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Reply 2

          I was going to reply to him, but the fact is, I just don’t thing he is reading any of the posts, even his own.

          I’m not one to turn down the gauntlet, but if the guy cant even take the time to read replys, its hard to engage.

    • #2718454

      President Bush has done all this:

      by garion11 ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      President Bush has done all this:

      -Has thwarted over 150 terrorist attacks.
      -Largely eliminated Al-Qaeda forces in Afghanistan.
      -Captured 3,000 terrorists worldwide.
      -Captured or killed 2/3 of top Al-Qaeda leaders.
      -Liberated over 18 million Afghans by taking out the totalitarian, Islamofascist, terrorist-harboring Taliban.
      -Passed a democratic constitution in Afghanistan.
      -Liberated 23 million human beings in Iraq from the rule of a megalomaniacal dictator who gassed entire villages, murdered over a million of his own people, tortured little kids with acid and tried to kill a former US president.
      -Conducted one of the most humane military campaigns of history in Iraq.
      -Ended a regime ridden with terrorists and illegal weapons in Iraq.
      -?Unilaterally? enforced the UN?s Iraq resolutions with the help of 34 countries, including Great Britain, Spain, Poland, Italy, the Czech Republic, Qatar and Romania. (This despite the glaring fact that the French didn?t want us to.)
      -Killed Saddam?s sadistic sons.
      -Captured Saddam Hussein.
      -Got Libya and Iran to agree to weapons inspections.
      -Discovered North Korea?s illegal nuclear weapons building and trafficking program.
      -Showed the North Koreans what?s up by pulling out of peace talks.
      -Proposed and signed the partial-birth abortion ban, making illegal a procedure which involved pulling a fully living baby half-way out of the womb, stabbing it in the head with scissors and sucking out its brains with a vacuum cleaner.
      -Signed the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, providing justice for those murdered before birth.
      -Placed a ban on federal funding for stem-cell research that destroys human embryos, aside from the stem-cell lines already active.
      -Took the University of Michigan?s affirmative action admission standards (which gave 12 points for getting a perfect SAT score and 20 for being black, Hispanic or Indian) to the -Supreme Court.
      -Expressed support for an amendment to the Constitution that would establish marriage as between a man and a woman only.
      -Got our economy rolling again after the biggest terrorist attack in the history of the world with tax cuts ?for the rich? (in Democrat terminology, that means people with jobs). There was an 8% growth in the last quarter of 2003, and over half a million new jobs have been created in 2004. The recession that started well before he came into office is at an end.
      -Held public schools accountable to the nation?s kids with the No Child Left Behind Act.

      • #2718421

        Check again

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to President Bush has done all this:

        “Liberated over 18 million Afghans by taking out the totalitarian, Islamofascist, terrorist-harboring Taliban.”
        Yes they (The Allied coalition) DID, unfortunately it is returning to what it was. While MOST Taliban have been removed from central Afghanistan, they still dominate Kandahar, hire thugs to repress the women who WERE trying to attend studies and Islamic fundamentalists are ALL OVER Afghanistan again, spitting on and beating women for not wearing the Bourqa (sp?) in public.

        Afghanistan is returning to it’s former state, Taliban are holding government positions.

        [u]Women in Afghanistan: rhetoric vs reality[/u]
        http://womensissues.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.greenleft.org.au%2Fback%2F2004%2F581%2F581p14.htm

        [u]Afghan Girls Poisoned For Going To School[/u]
        http://womensissues.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.feminist.org%2Fnews%2Fnewsbyte%2Fuswirestory.asp%3Fid%3D8407

        Now YES Both of these are left wing human rights and womens rights websites, where else would you find information about womens repression? Not exactly what the mainstream media would present. However it was on a Canadian report with camera’s following women in and around Afghanistan and Kandahar (where the women wouldn’t even go anymore) and asking for their feelings as well as showing the violence women face in the streets and while trying to attend school, which most have stopped now.

        As for the French, they are supporting you in Afghanistan and Haiti, yet you spit on them for not concurring with the premature removal of weapons inspectors in order to invade on a suspected threat.

        Even Bush stated the French were not to be dismissed for sitting this one out and that he considers them valuable allies as they have always stood behind the USA.

        Captured Saddam Hussein, anyone remember Osama Bin Laden? He was a guy that claimed responsibility for killing 3000 Americans, bringing your president to claim him as America’s (and the world’s) #1 target and he would be found at all costs and brought to justice for his heinous actions against 3000 American people, how he would not stop until this man was caught. I think someone might also want to remind Bush of this, he seems to have conveniently forgotten also.

        Korean peace talks? I thought it was the North Korean’s who decided there was nothing to talk about with South Koreao while they were allieswith America. That they would build and develop a nuclear arsenal regardless, for the protection against America’s attack.
        [u]North Korea refuses to discuss nuclear dispute in talks with South[/u]
        Bush just said he wouldn’t sign a nonaggression treaty. YOUR PRESIDENT WON’T CONSIDER A PEACEFUL RESOLUTION?? Now I know it was supposedly a rather “bold” agreement attempt but it is anal to stop any possibility of a treaty, even while saying that SOME form of “written security guarantee is possible”.
        North Korea is using a fear of America’s attack as a reason to develop weapons of defense.
        What is it your country does when it feels threatened?? Prepares for defense? Attacks anyway?

        http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-04-28-nkorea-no-talks_x.htm

        LOL [i]Proposed and signed the partial-birth abortion ban, making illegal a procedure which involved pulling a fully living baby half-way out of the womb, stabbing it in the head with scissors and sucking out its brains with a vacuum cleaner.[/i] PRICELESS!!

        BUsh opposes abortion for the purpose of stem cell research. He has allowed the release of 22 stem cells to various research organizations around the world, which with today’s technology is more than ample to support stem cell research, which his wife adamantly supports.
        Anybody with a partially sane mind (including Hitler with his syphillis tainted mentality) would stop abortion ‘for the purpose of’ stem cell research.

        Expressed support of ammending th Constitution? so what, everything he does is based on his chosen faith in Christianity, why do you think he’s so personally hated in the middle east? (Well one of many resons anyway)

        Whatever Garion, as usual you only report or follow the sunny side of life, while times are actually grim. Looking on the bright side is normally a good thing, but we must at least be somewhat aware of the grim realities of the world.

        Try making some hot coffee and having a look at what is really going on behind the ‘polka dot door’.

      • #2718310

        Amen brother!!!

        by 87878 ·

        In reply to President Bush has done all this:

        None so blind as those that will not see…

        Putin said it this weekend, after the massacre of all those children and adults. Weakness means defeat. He will be changing his approach… hmmm maybe he has learned something from Bush.

      • #2718283

        Read through your two posts, and choose one item

        by tbragsda ·

        In reply to President Bush has done all this:

        Read through your two posts, and choose one item that you feel strongly about. Something that has affected you, or someone you know, and I will discuss. I did try to reply to each, and the response show me that you didn?t read my reply, and my guess is you haven?t even read your own post.

        I doubt that I will sway your vote, or anyone else?s in this forum. In normal conversation, we speak about 170 words per minute. In a forum thread, you would be lucky to get 170 uniquely authored words per post. Its just cant have the same depth as talking to someone.

    • #2718312

      Interesting selection of sitings…

      by 87878 ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      Being pro-Bush and anti the wishiwashi, FlipFlop alternative of Kerry I could come up with an equally slanted negative view of your pick for president…

      It’s all dependent on one’s politics what we look at and what we choose to ignore.

      Good grief already… Clinton is no longer in the WH, Gore lost, get over it.

      • #2718246

        What do they have to do with anything?

        by aldanatech ·

        In reply to Interesting selection of sitings…

        What do Clinton and Gore have to do with anything? The only attention Clinton has right now is regarding his health condition and we do not even get to see much about Gore anymore. There are in the past. We are now looking towards the future. Also, I would like to know what’s all the fuss about Flip-Flopping. That is only something that Bush and his team came up with to have something to work with after such a failing administration. Bush himself is a “Flip-Flop”. He Flip-flopped from certainty on winning the war on terrorism to doubts on winning it and into declaring it impossible to win.

        • #2718236

          everything…

          by 87878 ·

          In reply to What do they have to do with anything?

          Clinton and Gore have everything to do with it … dems hate they lost the WH and are reacting emotionally to Bush, rather than giving the guy a fair review.

          Bush, for those that were listening, said that terrorism is not a conventional war and will not be won in a conventional way. No white flag will be raised and no peace treaty will be signed by heads of state…

        • #2712293

          So what?

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to everything…

          So what? They’re not the ones running for president.

          Bush also said he was going to get Osama Bin Laden, but instead he left that mission uncomplete and decided to atack Iraq on March of 2003. And of course this is not a conventional war, and therefore should be not fought in a conventional way. Why couldn’t Bush even take his own advice?

      • #2718242

        Flip flop Bush*

        by tbragsda ·

        In reply to Interesting selection of sitings…

        Bush Flip-Flop

        Patients? Bill of Rights

        In a televised presidential debate on Oct. 17, 2000, candidate Bush said, “If I?m the president ? people will be able to take their HMO insurance company to court,” adding that while he was governor of Texas, “We?re one of the first states that said you can sue an HMO for denying you proper coverage.”

        But on Tuesday, the Bush administration argued before the U.S. Supreme Court that the same Texas law touted by candidate Bush is invalid because it is pre-empted by a federal law. This is the opposite of what then-Gov. Bush?s Texas Department of Insurance argued in a lower court in 1997.

        Bush flip-flops on weapons ban pledge

        Bush flip-flop on political funds

        What’s most astonishing about this is that when Bush signed the McCain-Feingold bill into law, he lamented that it was going to harm free speech because it would eliminate soft-money donations by individuals to political parties.

        Now he is the one who is wanting to limit free speech — not only is he asking that the so-called 527 groups refrain from running ads, he wants the groups eliminated. Why the reversal? Perhaps it has something to do with the Democrat-leaning 527s outraising the conservative 527s by plenty.

        War on terrorism

        On Aug. 30 Bush said he does not think that
        America can win the war on terrorism.

        Yet Aug. 31 at the convention he asserted that America will win the war on terrorism.

        War with Iraq
        The president argued forcefully that creating a democracy in Iraq “will make our country safer.” The pre-emptive war to overthrow Saddam Hussein was part of a broader drive to democratize the Middle East to dry up the breeding grounds for terrorism, he said.

        A war to impose democracy is a stirring cause. But it is not the justification for war the president offered the American people, Congress and the world in the fall of 2002.

        An Iraq armed with biological, chemical and nuclear weapons presented a “grave threat” to our national security, Bush said in a major address in early October of that year, urging Congress to pass a resolution authorizing the use of force.
        “If we know Saddam Hussein has dangerous weapons today – and we do – does it make any sense for the world to wait to confront him as he grows stronger and develops even more dangerous weapons?” he asked rhetorically.

        I could go on for pages. The flip-flop business is just silly. Find somthing substantive to talk about.

        • #2718234

          substantive ….hmmm

          by 87878 ·

          In reply to Flip flop Bush*

          selective is more accurate….
          ciao

        • #2718228

          Leave out the jingoism.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to substantive ….hmmm

          What Im asking for is to leave out the jingoistic flip-flop, and talk about the issues. I’m not re-fighting Vietnam, talking about AWOL, or any of the rest. Where is this guy taking us. That’s my question. Don’t say in one breath that “Clinton was bad” and “were talking about the future” in the other.

          I know my life is not enhanced by the policies of this administration, and I don’t see that changing with another four years. How about you?

        • #2718213

          no jingoism….just different world views

          by 87878 ·

          In reply to Leave out the jingoism.

          It all depends on our obviously different views of the world…

          Where I see Bush as the right man for the right time (and am grateful it is him and not GORE)… where I see him as a man that is taking the fight to them rather than waiting like sitting ducks for it to come to back to us, you obviously don?t…

          Putin said it this weekend on the heals of the school tragedy in Belsan? Showing weakness will equal defeat. This was a prelude to what is being seen as Russia’s policy shift against terrorism… perhaps taking a lesson from W.

          We had to take this tough stance and at the same time work on changing the Arab view of the West… It is easy to see why they hate us (and it is not as simple as our ties to Israel). It?s socio-economic tied up with religious rhetoric.

          When one has so little it is easy to hate those that do, and their religion already identifies us as the infidels. We can’t combat this from the outside… we have to go there, we have to help them develop their countries, we have to give them a better way of life. That is the only way to ultimately stop terrorism … content and prosperous people do not become terrorists.

          This is no longer time where you can chose not to be bothered with the rest of the world … 9/11 changed that. We can no longer just sit back and just live our lives. But?.The US is not an empire building country… there’s a long history that supports this that Europe and the Blame America First gang chose to forget. Look at WWII?. we helped all the losers rebuild.

          They came to NY on 9/11; I lost 2 coworkers… but 9/11 was the second WTC attack; we didn’t do anything the first time.. They attacked our embassies, they attacked our ships, we didn’t do anything, so they attacked again. So we went there (Afghanistan, Iraq) to keep them too distracted to come here. That was the short-term objective… And long-run, to improve their lives and in the process do ourselves some good too. Again, content people do not become terrorists.

          I could go on… I think most dems have a fairly naive worldview. One that seems centered on the question of “how is this good for ME/the US” and the heck with everyone else… that may have been good at time where the Atlantic and Pacific gave us some protection and before the communications explosion, but that is not the case today. These days, it?s a bit more complicated.

          We went into Kosovo under Clinton.. Where is the outrage regarding that??? Kosovo had never in the slightest been a threat to us… but we did it anyway.

        • #2718194

          Are you in that 25% percent ?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to no jingoism….just different world views

          Apparently 25% of Americans still feel that Saddam is responsible for 9/11 or is directly related to the terrorism brought on by Taliban on 9/11.

          Your “(Afghanistan/Iraq)” reference implies that you also lump them together as one and the same. Was it skin color or the dusty baren land they occupy that this similarity came from?

        • #2718183

          based on your question, you’ve missed the point

          by 87878 ·

          In reply to Are you in that 25% percent ?

          You are a one issue person who can’t see the broader problem.

          Arabs are raised to hate the west… how are you going to change that from your comfy couch world?

          You’d wish the problem would just go away…

          If you can explain why we went into Kosovo in the context of US national interest, then talk to me about Iraq. There was plenty more reason to go into Iraq with respect to national interest then Kosovo, but Dems were all over supporting Kosovo involvement, where the US had absolutely nothing to gain from it… nothing.
          What Hypocrisy!!!

        • #2712341

          Must the US gain?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Are you in that 25% percent ?

          I think you have syuggested that the US is not justified in war unless that are gaining from it?

          That is the underlying issue you have with democrats suporting Kosovo. The US had nothing to gain from it? What will you gain from killing a few thousand Iraqi’s? Freedom? Safety? Do you REALLY still believe you wil stop terrorism, if so let Bush know, even he says terrorism won’t be stopped.

          So what GAINS are you there for?

        • #2712320

          First, thank-you.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to no jingoism….just different world views

          First, thank-you. This is a well thought-out and (mostly) non-insulting post, would be happy to reply to.

          “Where I see Bush as the right man for the right time (and am grateful it is him and not GORE)… where I see him as a man that is taking the fight to them rather than waiting like sitting ducks for it to come to back to us, you obviously don?t…”

          No, I don?t. I see this as the best way to increase violence, and hatred of the US globally, and specifically in the Muslim world. I don?t want to be a ?sitting duck?, but rather to increase protection at home, while working to resolve our differences abroad.

          “Putin said it this weekend on the heals of the school tragedy in Belsan? Showing weakness will equal defeat. This was a prelude to what is being seen as Russia’s policy shift against terrorism… perhaps taking a lesson from W.”

          Russia is a mess with little doubt. To say the tact before these most recent tragedies was weak seems a bit off. I don?t think Putin is taking a lesson from Bush, but using Bushes example as a way to mollify his current tact.

          “We had to take this tough stance and at the same time work on changing the Arab view of the West… It is easy to see why they hate us (and it is not as simple as our ties to Israel). It?s socio-economic tied up with religious rhetoric.

          When one has so little it is easy to hate those that do, and their religion already identifies us as the infidels. We can’t combat this from the outside… we have to go there, we have to help them develop their countries, we have to give them a better way of life. That is the only way to ultimately stop terrorism … content and prosperous people do not become terrorists.”

          Finally, I can find something to agree with you on. The reason for the hatred is deep, and complex. It will take time and effort to understand, let alone fix. We have a bad history in this area of the world. Bad policies through Democrat, and Republican administrations. It will be a marathon to repair the damage, not a sprint to war.

          We should stop thinking of these countries as our gas station, and start looking at them as unique people. We ARE the most generous, and helpful nation on the earth. We can make life better for everyone. Is the answer to bomb the people till they like us?

          “This is no longer time where you can chose not to be bothered with the rest of the world … 9/11 changed that. We can no longer just sit back and just live our lives. But?.The US is not an empire building country… there’s a long history that supports this that Europe and the Blame America First gang chose to forget. Look at WWII?. we helped all the losers rebuild.

          They came to NY on 9/11; I lost 2 coworkers… but 9/11 was the second WTC attack; we didn’t do anything the first time.. They attacked our embassies, they attacked our ships, we didn’t do anything, so they attacked again. So we went there (Afghanistan, Iraq) to keep them too distracted to come here. That was the short-term objective… And long-run, to improve their lives and in the process do ourselves some good too. Again, content people do not become terrorists.”

          Before 9/11 we cared about the world. We are the country of the Marshall Plan, the Berlin airdrop. We are extraordinary people. Given the chance to show our humanity, we can figurate and literately make rivers run backwards. We are also ugly when provoked. Its something that makes me sick when I know the immense power we have to fix wrongs used backwardly. I don?t blame us first, only when I think we are wrong.

          I?m sorry for your loss. My sister lives in Manhattan, and I fear will never recover completely. As for ?did nothing? I just don?t want to go there. We did try to do something, it was just sandbagged at every turn. The Afganistan, Iraq connection is just wrong, and we both know it. These are different discussions.

          “I could go on… I think most dems have a fairly naive worldview. One that seems centered on the question of “how is this good for ME/the US” and the heck with everyone else… that may have been good at time where the Atlantic and Pacific gave us some protection and before the communications explosion, but that is not the case today. These days, it?s a bit more complicated.”

          This is the only place in your post I could find an unprovoked, thoughtless insult. I could say the same for Republicans, but I would be wrong too. Groups of people are never just of one mind.

          “We went into Kosovo under Clinton.. Where is the outrage regarding that??? Kosovo had never in the slightest been a threat to us… but we did it anyway.”

          Where was the outrage? It was on the streets of Chicago where I was protesting against the policies a administration I help to elect. War has done little to help ever.

        • #2712318

          What do you mean by ‘has so little though”

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to First, thank-you.

          Like that part is a bit sketchy, uhhhh, Arabs have so ‘little???’ NOT. They are looking at YOU like you have so little. They are rich. Who over there has so little exactly?

        • #2712316

          Think your shooting your own javamqibm.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to First, thank-you.

          Look at the posts, and who sad “they have little”.

          Well, I will defend my friend on the right. They DO have little. The distribution of wealth is worse than our own country.

          The point he, and I are both makeing is well feed, well clothed, well shelter people, are less likely to become angry homicidal people. Move people up past that, and they may even become happy people.

        • #2712315

          oh i thought you were stereuotyping them

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to First, thank-you.

          The distribution of wealth within their country or yours is NO issue unless you feel this is what is fueling their resentment toward the US.

        • #2712307

          Reply to javamqibm

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to First, thank-you.

          When people are poor, hungry, or mistreated, they are pron to find someone to blame. We do play a part in their misfortune, or a large part in watching some become wealthy while other remain poor.

          As I and others are quick to point out, these are complex problems. They don’t have a answer today, as they took a long time become problems. Im not looking back, Im trying to look forward. I don’t see even the momentary destruction of terrorist organizations winning. We will have to think about how, and why these problems exist.

          So, as to your question “this is what is fueling their resentment toward the US.” Yes, its playing its part.

        • #2712303

          Naaa

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to First, thank-you.

          Only the part you directly are responsible for oppressing through previous wars but don’t let that fool you. The US IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR TERRORIST Violence in the world. Look around you, do you think the US is the source of terrorism? Arab militia is committing genocide in Sudan as we speak, they blew-up 300 kids in RUssia ONE WEEK ago. If you as an American can sit there and say you have some part in that then your country does have its problems and a WHOLE new WEAKNESS against terrorism. Don’t buckle under because of what other countries are saying. Even if people are questioning your presidents last actions it’s no call for you to question every aspect of your country because in doing so you are showing weakness to terrorism. ALSO, in your paranoia you incorrectly feel that terrorists are out to get America, thats not even true either. They aren’t picky abotu WHo and you are not the onyl target at all. The internet is fuelling these self-analysis discussions and making you show your country as weak when it shoudl be strong.

        • #2712299

          The distribution of wealth is irrelevant

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to First, thank-you.

          You definitely wont be able to tackle that one unless youve got a handle on it in your own country. Thats irrelevent to the issue

        • #2712288

          Im not just blameing America.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to First, thank-you.

          Im not just blaming America. I didn’t know you were Canadian. Now that I do, I will blame your countrymen too.

          We, America, has had its hands on this regions since WWII. Government, resources, everything. Im not going to point fingers at any administration, but to say that we didn’t play a part (read PART) in how the inequities in these countries developed is to stick my fingers in my ears and say “America can do no wrong”.

          I have posted several times. America is my country, and I am very proud of all she does right, but I don’t let pass when we do wrong. I want to be the America that gives hope to people, not the one that drops bombs.

          This is not week. Its much harder to make peace than bomb into submission.

          Kudos to anyone for the name of the author of the following quote
          “Its easy to hate, it takes strength to be patient and kind”

          Its just all this “bomb” talk. (hint)

        • #2712281

          Sorry. This got attached to the wrong thread.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to First, thank-you.

          I don’t need protection from you from Oz “getting into my head” that’s all. Really just joking around. I was feeling that the discussion today has been among thoughtful people, lets not loose that because of one joke.

          This election is about WAY more than terrorism. I don’t feel any more vulnerable then you might up north. It has its part, but 9/11 DID NOT CHANGE EVERYTHING! There were terrorist before, and we knew that, there will be terrorist after this election, or the next. What to do about them, what to do about our economy, our world reputation, our poor, our… the list of domestic and international problems go on.

          Its my opnion that Bush was never up to this task. Next.

        • #2712142

          thank you for your reply tbragsda

          by 87878 ·

          In reply to First, thank-you.

          I find we are not so far apart in the major areas. I do hate labels, but alas I am guilty of using them occasionally…

          I just have a perspective that comes from being born abroad, in an Iron Curtain country (the Soviet Block countries in the hey day of the USSR; I know the alternatives out there intimately, so I tend get stuck on some dem platforms/approaches… too much of a d?j?’ vieux for me.

          But as a conservative, we get other labels ? Personally I cherish the day I became an American citizen and have never stopped appreciating both the liberty and humanity it represents.

          Both sides tend to stress and exaggerate differences too much, and rather than stressing what we all do agree on, but that?s politics I guess.

          In the end, it is the both the beauty and strength of this country that we don’t have to agree, but that we would all fight passionately for each other’s rights to hold our views, what ever they might be.

          I’ll look for your future posts and will look forward to our debates.

          Regards,
          87878

        • #2712097

          RE: Im not just blameing America and other posts

          by garion11 ·

          In reply to First, thank-you.

          “No, I don?t. I see this as the best way to increase violence, and hatred of the US globally, and specifically in the Muslim world. I don?t want to be a ?sitting duck?, but rather to increase protection at home, while working to resolve our differences abroad.”

          This is what I mean by liberal thought. They already do hate us, you can’t talk to these people nor appease them. The differences cannot be resolved because their hatred revolves around the State of Israel and our support for it. What do you do then?

          “Russia is a mess with little doubt. To say the tact before these most recent tragedies was weak seems a bit off. I don?t think Putin is taking a lesson from Bush, but using Bushes example as a way to mollify his current tact.”

          Yeah I agree, Russia is a mess. They are not innocent with Chechenya. Lots of atrocities were committed by Russians and this is simply another escalation by the Chechen side. Although I have to give credit to the Russians for being smart enough to keep this under the radar. Its just the Muslims seem to announce to the world and take that extra stupid step in committing atrocities.

          Finally, I can find something to agree with you on. The reason for the hatred is deep, and complex. It will take time and effort to understand, let alone fix. We have a bad history in this area of the world. Bad policies through Democrat, and Republican administrations. It will be a marathon to repair the damage, not a sprint to war.

          We should stop thinking of these countries as our gas station, and start looking at them as unique people. We ARE the most generous, and helpful nation on the earth. We can make life better for everyone. Is the answer to bomb the people till they like us?

          Instead of hating us, they should hate their governments for opressing them. We haven’t done anything to “opress” them, its all their own governments who refuse to provide the aid that we give their leaders.

          They are our gas station and we are their customers. If you were to enter a gas station and buy gas from someone, and later on the guy that owns the gas station shoots your family, would you go back and buy some more gas from him?

          “Where was the outrage? It was on the streets of Chicago where I was protesting against the policies a administration I help to elect. War has done little to help ever. ”

          I never heard it. All I hear is everything under the sun protesting “Bush’s war” when the liberals themselves have said that they were for this war going back to the Clinton Administration.

          War defeated Germany in WWI, WWII. War is a last resort, but good people fight it reluctantly while evil people start it. Please understand the differences between US and THEM.

        • #2712089

          Hatred of the US…now that’s a chestnut

          by 87878 ·

          In reply to First, thank-you.

          It comes up in 2 ways:

          1. Our warring actions have caused the world to hate us more…
          2. Our warring actions have caused Arabs to hate us more.

          The below are my thoughts on the topic?

          A. ?Jihad? was declared against the US by the terrorists who have their tentacles spread all-over globe. In other words we didn?t start this?
          a. The terror agenda is simple: destroy the West and all it represents. Paint the West as the root of all evil to all Arabs, most which are not oil moguls and living badly.
          b. They already hate us and before we went over there, Afghanistan, Iraq, had exclusive audience with the Arab populous.
          c. The Arabs needed to hear and see a different message and lifestyle option. Afghanistan and Iraq will be templates for what can be in that region and though this will take time it will ultimately destroy the terrorist agenda. Echoing my comments above, content people do not become terrorists.
          B. Our ?allies? were happy to string us along and sign resolutions in the UN, but when it came down to it were not willing to show their teeth.
          a. Why wasn?t the resolution enough justification for the allies going in as a unified group? Do you recall that Clinton like Bush and for the same reason ignored the UN when chose to bomb Iraq?
          b. What is the point of a ?UN? if it can?t and doesn?t carry any weight?
          c. Could it be that some of our ?allies? had become so politically impotent and besieged by their own ulterior, economic, motives, that they? d forgotten the significance of their commitments to a country that had had their backs and saved their arses over and over again?
          d. Can you blame any of us in the US that see the UN as irrelevant and given their recent history, which the liberal press did not give much attention to, also corrupt.
          C. Our national interest? this one is simple and Bush is right on?. No nation, not France, not Germany, not the Russians, should presume that our national interest is second to how warm and fuzzy our allies feel toward us?it is not the thermometer we should be basing our decisions on. Sorry, that?s just the way it is. That?s not to say we shouldn?t care, but in the end, the primary goal of any government should be to protect and serve the interests of its own people.

          To sum it up,

          A. They hate us already? the hatred is deep, it is ugly, and rooted in things many of us outside the Arab world can?t begin to understand; that is why we need to go in there and work to change views.
          B. Our allies are not all noble and enlightened countries striving for a better world. They impotent and self motivated, and should not be primary driver in our decisions.

        • #2712078

          They dont just hate you

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to First, thank-you.

          They basically hate everyone. They are just looking for any target. It;s not about the free world either. They just hate anyone. Its a force and they will latch on to whatever looks unpopular whatever is weak to justify their actions and create opportunity to carry out their actiosn which are destructive and self-serving

        • #2712073

          They DO hate us. Talks, or bomb?

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to First, thank-you.

          They DO hate us. Talks, or bomb, are they our only options? Has the bombing done anything to change that hate?

          I see this as a problem that generations from now, we will still be working at. The answer in the short run may look military, but I doubt that will fix it. You asked ?the guy that owns the gas station shoots your family, would you go back and buy some more gas from him?? No I would not! Lets stop using so much so we don?t have to. We must think beyond our current need for oil. It puts us at a disadvantage, where we must react today, less we loose the flow of oil. If our hands were not forced, would the policies be the same?

          Just looking at Israel, it?s again, only one of the problems. We in this forum are mostly geared towards problem/resolution. This problem is tangled. Reducing it to this-or-that too small.

        • #2718209

          So how’s Kerry going to make your life better?

          by dbertsche ·

          In reply to Leave out the jingoism.

          Tell us what Kerry is going to do, all I ever hear people saying is vote for Kerry because Bush sucks, give me a break. The Dems have yet to offer any real reason for voting for their guy. What’s he stand for?

        • #2718192

          Missing the point

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to So how’s Kerry going to make your life better?

          Nobody REALLY thinks Kery is some political genius that is going to change the world. The issue of people voting for Kerry is simply he is NOT Bush. That’s enough for most after watching Bush drag your country and it’s people through the mud for four years.

          I think if Ronald MacDonald were up for election he would be favoured over Bush just due to the amount of distaste in your OWN country toward Bush. not to mention th other Allied countries citizens that are just as strongly opposed to Bush if not moreso.

          So as far as what Kerry could do differently, well he can’t b Bush and that’s the whole point.

          As far as what he stands for, not too much that Bush did, and that’s good enough for most.

        • #2718189

          You are a piece of work

          by garion11 ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          Its amazing how you come onto this board and butt your head into everything and try to influence other people into not voting for Bush because of your own selfish gains.

          Forget the fact that you know nothing about US politics, but its absolutely ridiculous you word your opinion into “…Bush drag your country and it’s people…” all for what?? What are you really afraid of? or jealous of? or envious of?

          When I ask why you come onto these boards when this election is none of your business, you spewed out that it is your business (and you proceeded to give your reasons). Thats all fine and dandy, but you are a selfish, self centered guy who doesn’t care about American people or citizens, yet has tha gall to accuse US of being arrogant and selfish.

          What would you really do if Bush wins? LOL.

        • #2712345

          Talk about a hypocrite, did you READ your post?!?!?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          What a fool you can be, first of all, you made a slew of incorrect assertions that I corrected you on and provided sources to the reality of what you deem is a day at the fair and you have no reply.

          When I respond to someone else’s comments, THAT YOU HAVE TAKEN ABOSULTELY NO PART IN WHATSOEVER, your response is that I butt in to conversations? Where did YOU come from ? What a two faced hypocrite you are, man…do you actually think at all before ranting? You accuse somebody of doing exactly what you have just done and expect to be heard out? What a goof!

          Please point out [b]exactly WHICH statements[/b] I made in my last response that you say are self-centered or arrogant.

          As usual, you will probably just shoot your mouth off and call me a foreigner, nobody will listen to what I want, blah blah blah, yada yada and a whole bunch of other hot air with no substance as always.

          What you must begin to realize is that I am not the only one with such opinions, half of your country and th emajority of the free world also sees GWB as the worst rpesidet in US history and he must be removed from power which he has proven completely incapable of holding. Just like he failed as an entrpreneur and every other thing he’s done in life that proves him as a constant failure.

        • #2712339

          Well he only had four years.

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          If it were Canada, he might have lingered on for 20 years. The only REASON you can distinguish this person as a S**T leader is because you have researched it on the internet. Otherwise you be as butted out of US politics as everyone else was 10 years ago. You have concluded him as a s**t leader, but the democratic system in the US has foolproof on THIS as they can vote him OUT after 4 years if there’s not another donkey waiting there. If there’s oNe donkey, whose to say there might not be TWO. They are USED to it, you are not, the internet has made this fresh for you.

        • #2712334

          To your last post…

          by 87878 ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          The anti-W lot seems to harp on his reasons for going and that there was no national justification. Well, if that question is raised for Iraq, it has to be for Kosovo… for which there was absolutely no national justifcuiation… it was a noble cause, but there was no national justification…

          At least by Iraq, we did a good thing and have some national interest in the cause. I’ve already covered allot of the latter, the rational for us being Iraq, in my prior postings…

        • #2712331

          Oz will be running around Port Hardy with..

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          a flag of protest on the uS election day

        • #2712306

          javalgksuhil Not even remotely close

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          But a valiant GUESS all the same.

        • #2712304

          whats javalgklishjasdas

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          I never guess, you just think I’m guessing cause I’m way ahead of you

        • #2712302

          javalgksuhil sorry, I’ll try that again

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          As many here may remember, I was first disgusted at Bush long before ANY war was waged.

          I am a former public speaking and motivational coach as well as a private study of psychology and criminal meantality.

          Watching GWB for the first time had me sitting with my jaw open as EVERY one of his eye movements and his body language is TEXTBOOK in the FBI’s profiling techniques as ways to determine a liar. He didn’t have a single shred of credibility and failed all visual integrity tests, while publically speaking to America.

          He was a complete farce of a liar until his ‘people’ worked to get his mannerisms down to look a little more truthful, anyone from the FBI or RCMP must have been rolling on the floor laughing at him and wondering if anyone had caught on to his falsehoods in his speeches.

          Then he just went on and on to prove it.

          When I FIRST voiced my distatse for his incredible marreisms ad textbook idications of pure BS, I was foced by many members here to PROVIDE proof. I was adamat that I was only sharig my personal beliefs based on what I had studied, they just don’t nuy it unless it is from a website. THAT is when I became focused on exploring the web and comparing thedifferent sides in search of the truth. Funny nough, no truth was found on ANY US site no matter if it was for or against him, both are terribly biased.

          Then after searching WORLD news, I realized that te USA is only reportig a TINY party of the realities of what is going on. Our Canadian news was MUCh more graphic and realistic in comparisson, to which I was told the USA does not censor news. After once again provig that the USA has ALWAYS censored and controlled war reports, reporting restrictions are even outlined on the Pentagon’s website, they still don’t believe the US is only getting the fair weather reports from Iraq and claim the rest of the world is wrong and biased, er okay, whatever you wish to believe.

          When Canadian news reports show video footage of the horrors that were taking place, it was called Canadian propaganda and lefty BS. Well in my experience, unless you have a studio and paid Hollywood actors, film doesn’t lie. The reportig may be biased but not FILM of events that proved what was being reported in the US and elsewhere around the world were two different things, this also helped explain WHY people actually supported Bush in the USA, they had only seen the rosy side.

          So while you would like to think that I have built my knowledge based on the internet, I had formed the opinion myself long before being pushed to use the internet for proof by Republican supporters, time to look at yourselves again.

          You guys see one thing and it’s understandable that some would feel they get the full story.

          I watch your news and other world news, including Middle Eastern news (hard to understand but much is translated), Asian news, British news and Canadian news. Al countries report the same news for the most part, except the US channels and websits where a completely diferent twist, if not an entirely diferent story are the focus.

          I understand where/how you guys are so easily lead to believe what you do, but then again, until you’ve seen the other side of the fence, you have no idea what you are really not beig shown. I am also not the first foreigner to note how different US and world reports are. Just curl up under the blankets and everything will be just fine.

        • #2712300

          No need to run around with a flag of protest

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          A million volts couldn’t get it through to may of you. I may skip around with a Canadian flag, just thankful that I do not live in the USA though, as most Canadians are.

        • #2712296

          oh for chis* sake

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          Listen, I am canadian too and I lived in the US for 10 years, lots of cool and fun friends in the US!! Noone is disputing that George Bush is an idiot, every american president has been deemed some kind of idiot at some point. BUT the reality is AMERICANS are not responsible for terrorism. Threats of terrorism exist, that should be the focus as terrorists just blew up 300 kids and 3000 sudanese and they are laughing at you while you sit here on the internet critisizing the US for it. That is exactly the wanted effect. Do you understand my point?
          What value do your propose to gain in attempting to sit here and make americans look at all their weaknesses, in effect exploiting George Bush mistake and using it as an excuse to get into americans heads.

        • #2712295

          No need to protect me, please.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          I don’t think Oz is “trying to get into Americans heads.” are you Oz? Hope not. Im not very strong (weak liberal that I am), and you Canaidan… stay back Canada!!! Im armed to the teeth! (thanks to GWB)

        • #2712292

          fascination with the US

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          I love the US too!! Thats why I spent alot of time. I miss it there. I am very interested in the differences in our cultures, if it weren’t my duty to take an opposing viewpoint to you Oz I would say we have a very similar fascination, viewpoint and ability to question the US, I have spent many hours on that too, particularly on how that played out in my personal experioences there so I believe I am in as good a position as you to make that assessment. Sorry!!!

        • #2712291

          No need to protect you??

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          Well then what are you talking about. The whole issie will come down to one of protection if you are discussing WAR and terrorists and the US role in it. If you still feel great and all that and you dont mind people like Oz saying that the US is GOING DOWN as a super power because of GWB than I guess youre pretty good all around

        • #2712285

          What the hell are you on about?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          Better still don’t bother, I anm not interested in your comments anyway.

          I am not on a MISSION to PROVE anything.

          Because I work at home I have a lot of time to kill, the utter ignorace of some Americans to not understand that they just MAY not be getting the whole picture is comical. they then say pople are lying or statig falsehoods because they haven’t heard Bush say it, then when proof is rovided, it’s lefty BS. good for a chuckle anyway.

          I also ha many American friends and parter companies I’ve worked with, touring companies, record companies, talent scouts etc. I don’t blame Americans for being misinformed, I blame the blind ones who simply refuse to accept ay other information other than what GWB has force fed them.

          I DON’T BLAME America for 9/11, someone else made that absurd comment earlier. I also don’t blame Saddam for 9/11, someone already proudly claimed responsibility for that ad while he was said to be the most imortat target at the time and America would not rest until he was caught, now GWB says he doesn’t matter.

          Gee, here’s a good idea, go vote for him again. Sure.

        • #2712282

          How can you possibly think that a super power will always e so?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          It is a fact of economics and prove history.

          A super power cannot remain a super power, it can’t, hasn’t and won’t be done.

          This current administration is the exact reason WHY countries do not retain super power status, they go to war and destroy their economy.

          Now if that is Jimmy Carter’s fault thn so be it, perhaps Reygun is responsible, no couldn’t be him, hmmmm, Kerry? No he’s not in charge.

          I KNOW !! Geroge Bush waged the war! He offered to spend almost 200 Billion on it!

          Well id the economy then taks a beating in th eupcomiong years and aome other coutry, say China for example actually takes oer as the world’s leading super power, thee will only be one person to blame. not Nixon, Clinton, Reagan or Kerry, the one that lead them to a pre-emptive, poorly planned, poorly justified invasion of another nation, George Bush.

        • #2712280

          Oz doesn’t worry me, thats all.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          I don’t need protection from you from Oz “getting into my head” that’s all. Really just joking around. I was feeling that the discussion today has been among thoughtful people, lets not loose that because of one joke.

          This election is about WAY more than terrorism. I don’t feel any more vulnerable then you might up north. It has its part, but 9/11 DID NOT CHANGE EVERYTHING! There were terrorist before, and we knew that, there will be terrorist after this election, or the next. What to do about them, what to do about our economy, our world reputation, our poor, our… the list of domestic and international problems go on.

          Its my opnion that Bush was never up to this task. Next.

        • #2712261

          I agree he was bad

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Missing the point

          There’s no dispute there from my point of view. It being the demise of the US, I don’t think so and I’m not going to contribute to a conversation leading down that path which is where this has gone several times. and B, I don’t believe in exploiting the incident to bash american citizens as ignorant and all that other stuff. Thats what I’m ‘going on’ about. As far as what you do up in Port Fardy. I don’t care if your running around wearing the Canadian flag as as your underwear, really. I don’t. Have at it, hang it outside your cabin. Wave it at the bears then. LOLOLOL

        • #2712289

          This is what Kerry will do

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to So how’s Kerry going to make your life better?

          This is what he stands for:

          1) He has a more solid plan to fight the war on terrorism:

          a. The battle ground for terrorism is not in a set country. It is global. So we must restore some of sympathy we lost and get more support from our allies.

          b. It will take more than military action to fight the war on terrorism. We must compliment it with intelligence and diplomacy.

          c. We must look for ways to reduce our dependency on oil from the Middle East. We can start by supporting the production of Hybrid vehicles.

          2) He has plan for the economy:

          a. So many jobs are being outsourced from other countries that people in middle class have fewer and fewer opportunities. Kerry wants to cut taxes on business that create jobs inside the US.

          b. The wealthiest Americans don’t need tax cuts as much as the middle class. Someone with $10 million dollars is not exactly happier than someone with $9.5 or $9.75 million. The middle class is made up of people that work hard and keep our country a productive one. A tax cut for the middle class would truly give that kind of effect that Bush proposed on his tax cut plan.

          c. We got to get out of this torturing deficit. Bush’s dad had a similar problem, but Clinton fixed it and created a huge surplus by the end of his second term. Kerry wants to be realistic at this point of course, so he wants to at least cut deficit in half by the end of his first term.

          3) Education is one of the major issues for this election:

          a. The cost of College education is extremely high, and Kerry agrees. His plan for this includes a fully refundable College Opportunity Tax credit on up to $4,000 of tuition for every year of college.

          b. Grade schools have issues of their own. For that he offers better training and better pay for teachers in troubled schools, and after-school programs that are open until 6 p.m. for 3.5 million children along with safe transportation.

          4) Because of the war on terrorism we seem be slowing down a bit on technological advances and innovation. We need to get back on track and reclaim our top position in the world.

          There are other issues that Kerry wants to address that relate to energy and the environment. Kerry’s solutions relate to those for the economy and the war on terrorism. So there you go. That is what Kerry plans to do as president in a broad and simplified sense.

        • #2712025

          Your points:

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to This is what Kerry will do

          .
          1. You said, “The battle ground for terrorism is not in a set country. It is global.”

          Gee, that’s EXACTLY what President Bush and I have been saying, something John Kerry and you have challenged. So you FINALLY agree that the war in Iraq is indeed part of the war on terrorism. It’s about time you finally concede that point.

          2. You said, “We must look for ways to reduce our dependency on oil from the Middle East.”

          Again – you FINALLY agree that we need to open up drilling in Alaska and off-shore. Too bad John Kerry has always been against such things.

          3. You said, “Kerry wants to cut taxes on business that create jobs inside the US.”

          WAIT A MINUTE. How many times has President Bush been criticized for doing that very thing? How many times have John Kerry, the Democrats, and you criticized this administration for giving tax breaks to big business? Cutting taxes on business IS EXACTLY what President Bush has been doing – and Kerry wants to REPEAL THEM!

          4. You said……..oh, nevermind.

          You guys are a real piece of work.

        • #2712018

          Not so fast Maxy boy

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to This is what Kerry will do

          1. You said, “The battle ground for terrorism is not in a set country. It is global.”

          Gee, that’s EXACTLY what President Bush and I have been saying, something John Kerry and you have challenged. So you FINALLY agree that the war in Iraq is indeed part of the war on terrorism. It’s about time you finally concede that point.

          Answer: No. The war in Iraq is not part of the war on terrorism. In fact, it hardly has anything to do with it. A global war against terrorism is getting with our allies and ever other possible country in the world to fight terrorism. No alienate them.

          2. You said, “We must look for ways to reduce our dependency on oil from the Middle East.”

          Again – you FINALLY agree that we need to open up drilling in Alaska and off-shore. Too bad John Kerry has always been against such things.

          Answer: No. Forget about Alaska and off-shore drilling. I mean more energy conservation.

          3. You said, “Kerry wants to cut taxes on business that create jobs inside the US.”

          WAIT A MINUTE. How many times has President Bush been criticized for doing that very thing? How many times have John Kerry, the Democrats, and you criticized this administration for giving tax breaks to big business? Cutting taxes on business IS EXACTLY what President Bush has been doing – and Kerry wants to REPEAL THEM!

          Answer: Bush’s tax cuts are for big money making companies and corporation that often outsource jobs. Instead, Kerry wants to change those tax cuts for companies that DO keep jobs in America as an incentive for their patriotism.

          4. You said……..oh, nevermind.

          Answer: Oh C’mon, don’t give up now! I’m barely starting to warm up here.

        • #2712011

          aldanatech, avoided the spin.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to This is what Kerry will do

          As much as I have tried to stay away from attacks, Maxwell?s post is what all should regard as ?spin?. He knew what you were saying, knew where democrats stand on these issues, and simply turned the top.

          I?m really not into this form, or any form, of gotcha debate. It?s low, and contributes nothing to anyone?s understanding. Ignore him, engage him, just know that it will never go anywhere.

        • #2707786

          Yes I know…

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to This is what Kerry will do

          Yes I am aware of all that, and that is what it makes it so fun.

        • #2712024

          Bush’s top 10 Flip Flops

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to Flip flop Bush*

          According to Bush’s presidential record, here are his top 10 Flip Flops:

          10. BUSH FLIP-FLOPS ON STEEL TARIFFS

          Bush Flip: Bush Imposes Steel Tariffs
          “President Bush on [March 5, 2002] slapped punishing tariffs of 8% to 30% on several types of imported steel in an effort to help the ailing U.S. industry, drawing criticism from American allies and mixed reviews at home. ‘An integral part of our commitment to free trade is our commitment to enforcing trade laws to make sure that America’s industries and workers compete on a level playing field,’ Bush said in a statement issued by the White House.” [USA Today, 3/5/02]

          Bush Flop: Bush Rescinds Steel Tariffs
          “Facing a potential global trade war, President Bush on [December 4, 2003] lifted tariffs he imposed on foreign steel 21 months ago, declaring the U.S. steel industry healthy and ready to compete despite the industry’s claim that it needs more time to recover.” [Chicago Tribune, 12/5/03]

          9. BUSH FLIP-FLOPS ON ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN

          Bush Flip: Bush Supports Extending Assault Weapons Ban
          Ashcroft: “It is my understanding that the president-elect of the United States has indicated his clear support for extending the assault weapons ban, and I will be pleased to move forward with that position.” [Confirmation Hearing, Senate Judiciary Committee, 1/17/01]

          Bush Flop: Bush Opposes Extension of Assault Weapons Ban
          “The White House is opposing addition of gun show and assault weapons restrictions to a bill shielding firearms makers and dealers from lawsuits, prompting angry complaints from Democrats that President Bush is reneging on earlier support for the two proposals…In a statement [on February 24, 2004], the White House urged passage of the lawsuits measure without amendments that might delay its enactment. ‘Any amendment that would delay enactment of the bill beyond this year is unacceptable,’ the statement said. Democrats interpreted this as an effort to undermine support for the gun-control measures. ‘For the president to say he is for the assault weapons ban but then act against it is a flip-flop if there ever was one,’ said Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.), one of several sponsors of the assault weapons proposal in the Senate.” [Washington Post, 2/26/04]

          8. BUSH FLIP-FLOPS ON HYBRID AUTOMOBILES

          Bush Flip: Bush Mocked Gore’s Tax Credit for Hybrid Cars
          “‘How many of you own hybrid electric gasoline engine vehicles? If you look under there, you’ll see that’s one of the criteria necessary to receive tax relief. So when he talks about targeted tax relief that’s pretty darn targeted,’ Bush told the Arlington Heights rally, drawing laughs.” [Chicago Sun-Times, 10/29/00]

          Bush Flop: Bush Supported Investing in Hybrid Cars
          In his State of the Union speech, Bush said, “Tonight I am proposing $1.2 billion in research funding so that America can lead the world in developing clean, hydrogen-powered automobiles. … Join me in this important innovation, to make our air significantly cleaner, and our country much less dependent on foreign sources of energy.” [White House, “President Delivers ‘State of the Union,'” 1/28/03]

          7. BUSH FLIP-FLOPS ON USING MILITARY FOR NATION BUILDING

          Bush Flip: Bush Promised Not to Use Military for Nation Building
          In a campaign rally in Tennessee, then-Presidential candidate Bush criticized the Clinton administration for using the military in nation-building missions. Bush said, “I’m worried about an opponent who uses nation-building and the military in the same sentence. See, our view of the military is for our military to be properly prepared to fight and win war and, therefore, prevent war from happening in the first place.” [Governor George W. Bush, 11/6/00]

          Bush Flop: President Used Military for Nation Building in Afghanistan and Iraq
          After the removal of the Taliban in Afghanistan, Bush met with soldiers stationed in Afghanistan at the White House and thanked them for their nation building efforts. A senior administration official said, “The administration, with its international partners, is doing something akin to nation-building.” The plans for a post war Iraq also included nation building measures and, according to the Baltimore Sun, “Secretary of State Colin L. Powell confirmed…that Bush was considering, among other options, installing a U.S.-led occupation government if Hussein’s regime is removed.” [Baltimore Sun, 10/19/02]

          6. BUSH FLIP-FLOPS ON GAY MARRIAGE

          Bush Flip: It’s Up to the States to Decide
          In a 2000 presidential primary debate, candidate George W. Bush said gay marriage was a state’s issue, saying, “The state can do what they want to do. Don’t try to trap me in this state’s issue like you’re trying to get me into.” [Presidential Primary Debate, 2/15/00]

          Bush Flop: Bush Supports Constitutional Amendment That Restricts States’ Rights
          Bush: “If we are to prevent the meaning of marriage from being changed forever, our nation must enact a constitutional amendment to protect marriage in America. Decisive and democratic action is needed, because attempts to redefine marriage in a single state or city could have serious consequences throughout the country.” [Bush, 2/24/04]

          5. BUSH FLIP-FLOPS ON DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

          Bush Flip: Bush Thought Homeland Security Cabinet Position Was “Just Not Necessary”
          In October 2001, White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer said Bush opposed creating Office of Homeland Security position for Ridge. “[T]he president has suggested to members of Congress that they do not need to make this a statutory post, that he [Ridge] does not need Cabinet rank, for example, there does not need to be a Cabinet-level Office of Homeland Security is because there is such overlap among the various agencies, because every agency of the government has security concerns,” Fleischer said. [White House Press Briefing, 10/24/01]

          Bush Flop: Bush Decides to Support Homeland Security
          The New York Times reported, “Bush initially resisted Democratic proposals for a Cabinet-level agency. But once he endorsed it, the president pushed Congress for fast action as it debated such issues as whistle-blower protections, concerns over civil liberties and collective bargaining for department employees.”

          In remarks to Homeland Security Department employees, Bush claimed credit for supporting the Department: “In just 12 months, under the leadership of your President…you faced the challenges standing up this new Department and you get a — and a gold star for a job well done.” [New York Times, 2/28/03; Bush Remarks at One-Year Anniversary of DHS, 3/2/04]

          4. BUSH FLIP-FLOPS ON CALLING FOR A UNITED NATIONS VOTE ON IRAQ WAR

          Bush Flip: U.S. Will Seek U.N. Vote For War With Iraq
          Bush: …yes, we’ll call for a vote.
          Question: No matter what?
          Bush: No matter what the whip count is, we’re calling for the vote. We want to see people stand up and say what their opinion is about Saddam Hussein and the utility of the United Nations Security Council. And so, you bet. It’s time for people to show their cards, let the world know where they stand when it comes to Saddam. [Bush News Conference, 3/6/03, emphasis added]

          Bush Flop: Bush Attacked Iraq Without U.N. Vote
          Bush “failed to win explicit [security] council approval for the use of force” in Iraq. Two days before bombs began to fall in Iraq, the Bush administration withdrew its resolution from the UN Security Council that would have authorized military force. Bush abandoned his call for a vote after it became clear that the US could muster only four votes in support of force. [Washington Post, 3/21/03; Los Angeles Times, 3/18/03]

          3. BUSH FLIP-FLOPS ON TIME HE’LL SPEND WITH 9/11 COMMISSION

          Bush Flip: Would Meet For Only One Hour With 9/11 Commission
          McClellan: Obviously, as part of this, the President will be meeting with the chairman and vice chairman at some point in the near future. We are still working on the exact time of that meeting. We have discussed with the commission what we believe is a reasonable period of time to provide the chairman and vice chairman with answers to all of their questions.
          Q: Is that the one-hour time frame?
          McClellan: That’s what I’m referring to. [WH Press Briefing, 3/9/04]

          Bush Flop: White House Says No Time Limit on President’s Testimony
          “President George W. Bush will privately answer all questions raised by the federal commission investigating the September 11 attacks, the White House said, suggesting that Bush might allow the interview to extend beyond the one-hour limit originally offered to the panel by the White House. ‘He’s going to answer all the questions they want to raise,’ said the White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, whose remarks suggested that the White House was softening its negotiating stance toward the bipartisan commission. ‘Nobody’s watching the clock.'” [WH Press Briefing, 3/9/04; International Herald Tribune, 3/11/04]

          2. BUSH FLIP-FLOPS ON INDEPENDENT WMD COMMISSION

          Bush Flip: Refuses to Call for Independent Bipartisan Commission on Weapons of Mass Destruction
          “President Bush said on January 30, 2004, ‘I want to know the facts’ about any intelligence failures concerning Saddam Hussein’s alleged cache of forbidden weapons but he declined to endorse calls for an independent investigation.” [AP, 1/30/04]

          Bush Flop: Bush Appoints WMD Investigation Commission
          President Bush named a nine-member bipartisan commission to investigate U.S. intelligence-gathering capabilities in February 2004. The AP noted, “Bush had initially opposed a commission, but agreed to do so as calls grew from Republican lawmakers as well as Democrats.” The Los Angeles Times reported, “The White House opposed that panel initially, then backed down under pressure, and some say administration officials now regret doing so because the administration has become locked in a series of embarrassing battles with the Sept. 11 commission.” The New York Times noted Bush “gave the panel until March 2005, well after the November elections, to submit its conclusions.” [NY Times, 2/7/04; LA Times, 2/1/04; AP, 2/6/04]

          1. BUSH FLIP-FLOPS ON INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION

          Bush opposed an independent inquiry into 9/11, arguing it would duplicate a probe conducted by Congress. In July 2002, his administration issued a “statement of policy” that read “…the Administration would oppose an amendment that would create a new commission to conduct a similar review [to Congress’s investigation].” [Statement of Administration Policy, Executive Office of the President, 7/24/02; LA Times, 11/28/02]

          Bush Flop: Bush Relented and Appointed Independent Commission
          President Bush finally agreed to support an independent investigation into the 9/11 attacks after “the congressional committees unearthed more and more examples of intelligence lapses, the administration reversed its stance.” [Los Angeles Times, 11/28/02]

        • #2712010

          Good list.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Bush’s top 10 Flip Flops

          Lets see where this goes.

    • #2718273

      Liberal Sources

      by dbertsche ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      Gee, I couldn’t help but notice that the overwhelming sources of information you cite are all liberal, the “Clinton News Network”, the Washington Post, the New York Times. Give me a break, I wouldn’t expect any of them to present a balanced assessment of someone they can’t stand and who they would like to see out of office.

      Come back when you can present something that’s a little more balanced. They’ve got a name for people like you, “Rookie”.

      • #2718257

        Think again

        by aldanatech ·

        In reply to Liberal Sources

        I didn’t site any “Clinton News Network” anywhere. And can you consider CNN, USA Today, the BBC, CBS News, and even the White House site to be liberal?

        • #2718249

          Of course

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Think again

          Unless GWB says it himself, it is slanted. See the problm here?

          Now i GWB DOES say it and Republicans don’t but it, they will preted he DIDN’t say it ayway ad any other comment is just twisting his Republican/Conservative words.

          You can’t win, they (Repubs.)feel they already have. I think it’s a case of wearing blinders ad only looking ahead, unless it is to defend their cause then everything from any PAST goverment is raised to support their point.

          I think the best description is that trying to debate politics between Repubs ad Dems is a futile excersise at best.

        • #2718247

          Seen OutFoxed?

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Think again

          The right seems to think that since CNN is not as… how to say… crazy right, that CNN must be left. The clever little Clinton News Network tag works sooo nicely.

          Its a well complied list. Hope you dont mind, but I have saved allong other good resource lists.

          If you did not get OutFoxed, its worth the 20$. I have been passing it around since I got it. It spent two days at my house, and has been on constant loan since.

        • #2718214

          Well composed but totally unbalanced list

          by dbertsche ·

          In reply to Seen OutFoxed?

          You are correct when you say it’s a well composed list but it is still unbalanced. Lest those who reply to this site think I’m only espousing the conservative viewpoint, like I said the overwhelming majority of the references sited are liberal leaning, anyone who thinks CNN, the Washington Post, USA Today, and the New York Times are balanced is “brainwashed”. Present sources from both the left and the right and let the undecideds make their choice based on inputs from both. Afterall they will ultimately tip the scales in one direction or another and those of us who have already made up our minds will not be swayed one way or the other.

        • #2712068

          There is problem thought

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to Well composed but totally unbalanced list

          You see, the problem with Bush?s actions as a president is that he has so many negatives that you can hardly cite any positive ones. Keeping this in mind I am still being fair. You will notice that the list includes several articles that would appeal to pro-lifers and those against gay marriage. I even include a couple of sources where I let Bush show his side in the issues of energy consumption and gay marriage.

        • #2718218

          Duh!

          by dbertsche ·

          In reply to Think again

          Everyone knows (except you) that “Clinton News Network” is another way to refer to CNN! USA Today is also a liberal rag. Like I said you’re a rookie.

        • #2718190

          And what do you suggest ae no-biased sources?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Duh!

          Look high and low, every source is bised in some respect, although some more than others.

          There IS no middle ground, one has to look at extreme left and right and try to deciher what is so and what is not.

          to claim your sources are any more credible than any other is sheer hypocrisy, nobody has the truth yet, it doesn’t come out until a president is removed from office, then the following administration starts to air the realities of the former once the truth cannot be hidden from the public anymore.

          If you think te White House, or any other source including Bush’s own words are any more credible than a Terminator movie, then you need to give your head a shake and wake up to reality.

        • #2712202

          You missed the point entirely!

          by dbertsche ·

          In reply to And what do you suggest ae no-biased sources?

          The point is the majority of the sources sited are biased to the liberal point of view, yes you are correct in that all sources will be biased one way or another. My point is present an equal number of sources for both points of view and that is not what the initial poster did.

        • #2707819

          Fair enough,

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to You missed the point entirely!

          I see your point.

          I am just used to the Right complaining that every source is Lefty BS, then they counter with Righty BS?!?

    • #2712144

      Did Bush lie about his service on the National Guard service?

      by aldanatech ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      Back in February, Bush sat down in the Oval Office for an interview about his service in the National Guard. Bush told us, “I put in my time, proudly so.” He said, “And I’m telling you, I did my duty.”

      But now there are reasons to believe that Bush dishonored the Oval Office by lying to the American people.

      This morning, I saw reports about how new investigations from multiple media sources have revealed the truth about Bush’s service. New military documents show that he disobeyed a direct order from his commander to take a flight physical and “failed to perform to U.S. Air Force/Texas Air National Guard standards” — and was grounded as a result.

      New evidence supports claims that Bush missed months of service and that he never showed up for service with the Alabama National Guard.

      New evidence shows that Bush received special treatment. His supervisor wrote that he felt pressured from above to “sugar coat” Bush’s records.

      And Ben Barnes, former Lt. Governor and State House Speaker of Texas, has come forward to say that he pulled strings to get Bush a coveted spot in the Guard, which directly contradicts Bush’s claim that he received no special treatment.

      Bush has a lot to answer for. I guess only he can clear up the questions regarding the discrepancies in his service record, and he owes the American people those answers. Here are just a few of the questions he must answer (and if anyone can provide some answer for these I would appreciate it):

      1. Why did Bush say “I did my duty” when he missed months of duty in 1972, 73 and 74?

      2. How did Bush avoid getting called into active service for missing months of duty in 1972, 73, and 74?

      3. Why did Bush disobey a direct order to take his physical?

      4. What standard did Bush fail to meet when he was grounded for failing to perform at US Air Force/Texas Air National Guard Standards?

      5. Why did Bush go above his commander’s head to ensure a favorable evaluation he had not earned?

      6. Why did Bush say he received “no special treatment” when Ben Barnes says he pulled strings to secure a Guard slot for him?

      7. Who asked Bush’s family friend Sidney Adger to get Bush a slot in the Guard immediately after Bush graduated and at the height of the Vietnam War?

      8. When will Bush produce any credible witness who can attest to his service in the Alabama Air National Guard?

      I hope anyone (if not Bush himself) can at least answer these question.

      • #2712128

        You jumped the gun – forged documents

        by maxwell edison ·

        In reply to Did Bush lie about his service on the National Guard service?

        .
        CBS NEWS executives have launched an internal investigation into whether its premiere news program 60 MINUTES aired fabricated documents relating to Bush’s National Guard service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

        “The reputation and integrity of the entire news division is at stake, if we are in error, it will be corrected,” a top CBS source explained late Thursday.

        The source, who asked not to be named, described CBSNEWS anchor and 60 MINUTES correspondent Dan Rather as being privately “shell-shocked” by the increasing likelihood that the documents in question were fraudulent.

        Rather, who anchored the segment presenting new information on the president’s military service, will personally correct the record on-air, if need be, the source explained from New York.

        http://www.drudgereport.com/cbsd.htm

        • #2712122

          More mud to make the waters dirty.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to You jumped the gun – forged documents

          I saw this on Fox this AM. and have to admit, I was not surprised. Not surprised that correct or fabricated, something was going to happen to make this even more diluted. Those that choose not to believe a fairly simple story to begin with, are less likely to buy-in now that its confused with so much complex detail. Bush’s team has been working this since he was running for Governor. They can deflect forever. Muddy!

          This administration has had enough of a failing record in the last four years, that AWOL makes little difference. Lets all move on to the topics that truly effect our lives.

        • #2712107

          Don’t start this fight!

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to You jumped the gun – forged documents

          http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040910/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_guard_questions_2


          CBS, which reported on the memos on its “60 Minutes” program, said its experts who examined the documents concluded that they were authentic. They ostensibly were written by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, one of Bush’s commanders in 1972 and 1973.

          But Killian’s son, one of Killian’s fellow officers and an independent document examiner questioned the memos. Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a captain in 1991, said he doubted his father would have written an unsigned memo which said there was pressure to “sugar coat” Bush’s performance review.

          Two sides to the story. You will believe what you want to hear.

          Lets agree on this, Bush got a good deal with the TANG, and Kerry enlisted. These are facts that I think all can agree on.

          We all have more important problems faceing us now!

        • #2712099

          from the yahoo article already sited

          by 87878 ·

          In reply to Don’t start this fight!

          “Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software. Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, pointed to a superscript ? a smaller, raised “th” in “111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron” ? as evidence indicating forgery. ”

          Not sure how old you are, but I can tell you as one who recalls typing on the classic device, the superscript was just not a feature back in the day.

          Seems to be some cut and dry evidence of monkey business.

        • #2712072

          No I didn’t

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to You jumped the gun – forged documents

          That post was based on local TV and radio reports.

        • #2712036

          And your local TV and radio reports were based. . .

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to No I didn’t

          .
          …on the 60 minutes story – which was based on FORGED DOCUMENTS!!!

          The Democrat Party Dirty Tricks Division screwed up big time. The Democrats are imploding.

          The Democrats have lost all credibility. CBS and Dan Rather has lost all credibility.

          I might have to adjust my 53% prediction up a few percentage points.

          I’ll be drinking champaign,
          Feeling no pain,
          Come Wednesday Morning…….

        • #2707787

          Well then in this case…

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to And your local TV and radio reports were based. . .

          Well then in this case it CBS’s responsibility. They still stand by for what they reported by the way.

        • #2712014

          Could go either way at this point.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to You jumped the gun – forged documents

          The IBM Selectric Composer

          It had mutliple fonts available. All the way from 12 pt to 3 pt. It typed in proportional type – which could be disabled – and it had a “dead” key which could be programmed to do different characters. It was first introduced in 1966.

          See page 3 4Sep68 for example of Superscript “th”
          http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/9-Miscellaneous.pdf

          I doubt that its forgery, but will wait and see. Still makes no difference in the face of a failed administraion.

      • #2712124
        • #2712100

          grasping at straws…

          by 87878 ·

          In reply to Give it up, already

          The Kerry team seems to be grasping at straws on the military comparisons… and inventing them too, though probably blame it on some 527.

          Sad really…

        • #2712049

          Grasping leads to gasping

          by dbertsche ·

          In reply to grasping at straws…

          Let’s hope Kerry and the dems grasping leads to their gasping and defeat in November!

        • #2712002

          LOL and good wordplay

          by 87878 ·

          In reply to Grasping leads to gasping

          hope the tide keeps moving as it has and the Bush has a solid win.

        • #2712041

          Give what up?

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to Give it up, already

          You mean give up my freedom of speech? I don’t think so. Besides, that post was based on what I heard on the news. I am supposed to be responsible for what the media reports? Also, the yahoo report only shows that there is a mix of truth and fiction; and so now this becomes one of those cases where anyone’s call is as good as anyone else’s.

        • #2712032

          No no no – never stop “speaking” out

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Give what up?

          .
          Please, exercise all the freedom of speech you want. I love it. It actually helps make my case.

          However, be advised:

          It is better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
          — Mark Twain

        • #2712008

          it was done in MS word…

          by 87878 ·

          In reply to Give what up?

          Superscript was not an option on any typewriter; that simple truth nails the letter as a fraud….

          Lets not get all freedom of speech on this. Freedom to speak is not freedom to change reality and malign.

        • #2712007

          please see post re:The IBM Selectric Composer

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to it was done in MS word…

          .

        • #2712004

          I didn’t see anything about superscript

          by 87878 ·

          In reply to please see post re:The IBM Selectric Composer

          and all the experts I heard over since this story broke agree there was no typewriter that handled it.

          Happy to admit the possibility if a type writer was shown to be able to do it.

          Also, it seems the line spacing and formatting are in line with the MS word styling too.

        • #2712001

          Lets give till tonight, OK?

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to I didn’t see anything about superscript

          http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&S…

          NEW YORK, Sept. 10 /PRNewswire/ — Later today, CBS News will address on the air and in detail the issues surrounding the documents broadcast in the 60 MINUTES report on President Bush’s service in the Texas Air National Guard. At this time, however, CBS News states with absolute certainty that the ability to produce the “th” superscript mentioned in reports about the documents did exist on typewriters as early as 1968, and in fact is in President Bush’s official military records released by the White House. This and other issues surrounding the authenticity of the documents and more on this developing story will be reported on tonight on THE CBS EVENING NEWS WITH DAN RATHER.

        • #2707813

          Happy to wait

          by 87878 ·

          In reply to please see post re:The IBM Selectric Composer

          I am curious… I saw many a selectric in my day and to do a superscript in the way it was done on the memo would have taken some finessing. Not sure why anyone would; most would have just typed it as 110th (normal font).

          And then, if you rolled up the roller so that you could actually arrive at the place you’d position the smaller font superscript, getting the bar back down to where original line was never a perfect science. It was never perfect, which is why people didn’t bother.

          The formatting on that letter was perfect, very MS Word as they explained it… but who knows?
          will wait on Dan’s explanation.

        • #2707807

          Good. Thanks.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Happy to wait

          We can address tomorrow.

          I have seen lot of typesetting devices, lots of typewriter etc., and special symbols are just not new.

          I will admit my ignorance of the devices of this time, and simple wait for the evidence (good or bad).

          If its forged, whats your bet? Word, or Staroffice?

        • #2707670

          Good enough?

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Happy to wait

          Well.. if not, it seems that the flood gate are open, and US News(hardley “leftie”) has more to say.

          http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/040920/usnews/20guard.htm

          —-
          Some experts say they remain mystified as to how Bush obtained an honorable discharge. Lawrence Korb, a former top Defense Department official in the Reagan administration, says the military records clearly show that Bush “had not fulfilled his obligation” and “should have been called to active duty.”
          —-

          Now, move on. I would rather talk about anything else, but this is what we get reduced to.

          Lets just leave it, like I said. Bush got a good deal. Its not supprising, lets move on to what he did in the last three years!

    • #2712027

      True but how does that relate

      by thelastword ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      How does the american need for oil relate to middle eastern terrorists? I don;t get the connection. IF you reduce the need for oil, you don’t reduce terrorists.

    • #2707794

      Environment? Anyone?

      by tbragsda ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      I see about a dozen environmental articles listed in the original post. Anyone interested in the administrations policies regarding this?

      It seems we have bigger fish to fry this election, but the predictions of ?green hostile? Bush administration was right on.

      I have a hard time believing anyone likes this side of the administration.

      • #2707728

        Some extra bucks at the expense of our environment

        by aldanatech ·

        In reply to Environment? Anyone?

        The Bush administration couldn’t care less about the environment. In fact, you will notice that the Bush administration actually rolled back some of the hard-won environmental gains to help certain big companies and corporations either make or save money at the expense of our environment. This jeopardizes our right to breathe unpolluted air, drink safe water, eat uncontaminated food, live in clean communities and enjoy our natural treasures; not only for us but for generations to come as well. Kerry is well aware of this and he definitely wants to do something about it.

    • #2707768

      Unanswered questions about 9/11

      by aldanatech ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      Here are some of the questions that the Family Steering Committee submitted to the 9/11 commission:

      For President George W. Bush

      As Commander-in-Chief on the morning of 9/11, why didn?t you return immediately to Washington, D.C. or the National Military Command Center once you became aware that America was under attack? At specifically what time did you become aware that America was under attack? Who informed you of this fact? (http://www.911independentcommission.org/bush2162004.html)

      For Vice President Richard Cheney

      Please discuss the advice and plans of the Energy Advisory Council specifically as they relate to pipeline development and gas/oil exploration in Afghanistan, Iraq and other Middle Eastern countries, and the feasibility of such development or exploration specifically in those two countries in 2001.
      http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/Opinions/2002/Bates/02-340.pdf (http://www.911independentcommission.org/cheney3182004.html)

      For Condoleezza Rice

      Regarding the meeting of Abdullah Abdullah (close aide to Massoud and now the Afghan Foreign Minister) in July , 2001, with ?some top National Security Council (NSC) and State Department officials,? what information about al Qaeda did he convey? (http://www.911independentcommission.org/rice3182004.html)

      For George Tenet, Director of the CIA

      Why didn’t the CIA share vital information about the terrorists with the FBI?
      (http://www.911independentcommission.org/cia3182004.html)

      For Robert Mueller, FBI Director, 2001-present

      Which hijackers have been positively identified by DNA? Is the FBI in possession of DNA samples for all of the hijackers?
      (http://www.911independentcommission.org/fbi3182004.html)

      Source:
      http://www.911independentcommission.org/questions.html

      • #2714820

        What a widow of a 9/11 victim had to say…

        by aldanatech ·

        In reply to Unanswered questions about 9/11

        On September 14, five widows of victims of the September 11th, 2001 terrorist attacks endorsed Kerry. This is what Kristen Breitweiser, one of the widows said on CNN:

        “I think my own personal experience in the last three years, where I’d hoped that President Bush ? someone that I voted for, that my husband voted for ? would have been my biggest ally in trying to correct the problems that occurred on the morning of September 11th and trying to make this nation safer.”

        “And what I found out, for the last three years, is that he was our biggest adversary. And I’m very disappointed.”

        Source:

        http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0409/14/ip.01.html

        • #2712501

          Re:

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to What a widow of a 9/11 victim had to say…

          What does this prove? These five out of the almost 3000 that lost their lives that day are entitled to their opinion, just as we all are. I’m not sure why because their opinion is against Bush, or because they’re victims of 911 gives it anymore credibility.

    • #2707711

      How does Bush’s jobs record match up with Kerry’s plan?

      by aldanatech ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      Let’s do a comparison between what Bush’s record in job creation reflects and what Kerry plans to do as president.

      BUSH’S RECORD:

      1. Bush has been a disaster for jobs — despite having his entire economic plan passed in the last three years. On Bush’s watch America has lost 1.6 million private-sector jobs, making him the president to lose jobs since Herbert Hoover.

      2. We are now 7 million jobs short of the prediction made by the Bush administration in February 2002 — after 9/11, the tech bubble, and the recession.

      3. Jobs in industries where there are new jobs pay nearly $9,000 less than jobs in industries that are losing jobs.

      4. The typical family has seen its income go down more than $1,500 under President Bush.

      5. For Bush, making businesses more competitive means more outsourcing. Bush’s own Council of Economic Advisors said that “when a good or service is produced more cheaply abroad, it makes more sense to import it than make or provide it domestically.”

      KERRY’S PLAN:

      1. Kerry and Edwards have a plan to help create millions of high-paying jobs. America’s dynamic entrepreneurs and talented workers are capable of creating millions of jobs each year. It happened before: in Clinton’s first term the economy created more than 11 million new jobs. And with the Kerry-Edwards plan to put the right policies in place we can do it again.

      2. For Kerry and Edwards, making America more competitive means investing in more jobs at higher wages.

      3. Kerry has a plan to jumpstart job growth right now. This includes a New Jobs Tax Credit, which would provide a payroll tax holiday for new hires in manufacturing, other businesses affected by outsourcing, and small businesses.

      4. His plan would end tax breaks for companies that move jobs overseas and use the savings to cut the corporate rate by 5 percent, providing a tax cut for 99 percent of taxpaying corporations.

      5. Kerry would make America more competitive by reducing the burden on the middle class. He would cut the deficit in half in the first Kerry term as president, cut health care premiums by up to $1,000 a year, and move America towards energy independence to bring down energy costs.

      • #2707661

        More cheaply?

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to How does Bush’s jobs record match up with Kerry’s plan?

        Was that an actual quote?
        An economic advisor to the nations government used the term “more cheaply”? lol. Gotta love it.
        😀

        • #2707549

          What’s wrong with “more cheaply”?

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to More cheaply?

          .
          What’s wrong with using the combined words “more cheaply”?

        • #2709162

          This is what’s wrong

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to What’s wrong with “more cheaply”?

          What’s wrong is that they readily admit to outsource more jobs from other countries. They don?t care about the massive loss of jobs for Americans in the U.S. and the of kind impact this brings to the economy in general.

        • #2709145

          Ignorance run amok

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to This is what’s wrong

          .
          Geesh, aldanatech, didn’t you understand his question? He was wondering about the grammatical correctness of “more cheaply”. Are you so wrapped up in spewing your partisan rhetoric that you can’t even see that? Get a life, man.

          And by the way, one can’t outsource from something, as said in your context, only to something.

          And you’re wrong about outsourcing. Here’s my proof, where’s yours?

          http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=9&threadID=159164&start=0

          And you’re also wrong in a different message when you suggested that Iraq has nothing to do with defeating world-wide terrorism.

        • #2709093

          Iraq is not part of the war on terrorism, it’s a separate war

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to Ignorance run amok

          I didn’t point out the grammar because I know that the use of “more cheaply” is common in the US. And I know I am full 100% correct that the war in Iraq doesn’t help us in the war on terrorism. That was an early obsession and Bush quickly did whatever it would take to link it to 9/11 when they estimated there was a 10 to 50 percent chance Saddam was involved in the 9/11 attacks, which was an odd conclusion that reflected deep uspicion but no real evidence.

        • #2709044

          John Kerry disagrees

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Iraq is not part of the war on terrorism, it’s a separate war

          .
          “Iraq may not be the war on terror itself, but it is critical to the outcome of the war on terror, and therefore any advance in Iraq is an advance forward in that…” — John Kerry 12/15/03

        • #2709043

          John Kerry also said

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Iraq is not part of the war on terrorism, it’s a separate war

          .
          “This war isn’t just a manhunt — a checklist of names from a deck of cards,” Kerry said. “We don’t just face one man or one terrorist group. We face a global jihadist movement of many groups, from different sources, with different agendas, but all committed to assaulting the United States and open and free societies around the globe.”

        • #2709040

          And president Bush NEVER NEVER NEVER

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Iraq is not part of the war on terrorism, it’s a separate war

          .
          ….linked Iraq to 9-11 – NEVER.

          I challenge you – or anyone else – to find even a single quote from President Bush suggesting that Iraq was either responsible for or even slightly connected to the 9-11 attacks.

          He didn’t say it; he didn’t suggest it; but you say that he did.

          That means the LIAR is……YOU. If you’re not a liar, you’re extremely misinformed.

        • #2709030

          Bush linking sept 11 and Iraq.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Iraq is not part of the war on terrorism, it’s a separate war

          He did it by mentioning sept. 11 and Iraq togther in speeches. By sending members of his staff to do it more directley.

          Bush never directley pinned blame for the attacks on Iraq, but the overall effect was to reinforce an impression that persists with some Americans, that the two were connected.

          it is Intellectually dishonest to believe that he, and his administration, never intended to connect the two.

        • #2709025

          To the contrary, I suggest the opposite

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Iraq is not part of the war on terrorism, it’s a separate war

          .
          I suggest that it’s intellectually dishonest to believe that he, and his administration, DID intend to connect the two.

          This is an example of a lie taking on a life of its own.

          And it’s silly to suggest that just because he mentions more than one thing in his speeches, that they are automatically connected.

          Don’t just “suggest” it – show me the speeches – show me the connection. Go ahead, use your own intellect, read the speeches yourself, and try to show it. You can’t do it.

        • #2706942

          aldanatech – Cat got your tongue?

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Iraq is not part of the war on terrorism, it’s a separate war

          .
          You say Iraq has nothing to do with the global war on terrorism.

          John Kerry says it does.

          Who’s wrong, you or your hero, John Kerry?

        • #2706883

          Cat got your brain?

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to Iraq is not part of the war on terrorism, it’s a separate war

          You need to provide better evidence than that. On the first posting you didn’t even finish the speech and you didn’t even date the second one. As far as I’m concerned, those quotes could have been misrepresented. They could even be Bush quotes. Besides, if Kerry ever supported the reason this war was because Bush simply said so. Many people blindly believed and trusted him only to find out later on that they were misled. Now this war is costing us millions, we are loosing valuable American soldiers, thousands of Iraqi lives are being lost as well and we just don’t see an end to this. This is Kerry opposes now. We trusted Bush, trusted he had a plan, but instead it was mostly trial-and-error. Bush made a big disgrace out of himself; and now it will take us years, if not generations to make up for his mistakes. What Kerry IS in favor of is getting over this as quickly as possible before the entire Middle East gets together on another “Jihad” against us.

        • #2706785

          aldanatech – Okay – I ask again – with the links

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Iraq is not part of the war on terrorism, it’s a separate war

          .
          http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/12/16/kerry_says_us_safer_with_hussein_caught/

          http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0227.html

          Now that you have your full context, your dates, your sources – one of which is the Kerry – Edwards Web site itself, and the other his very own hometown newspaper – is John Kerry wrong for saying that Iraq is indeed about the war on terrorism, or are you wrong in suggesting it is not?

          This is a simple question. How about a simple answer?

          (By the way, your “Bush made him do it” logic is the most asinine thing I think I’ve ever read.)

        • #2707380

          Simple answer

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to Iraq is not part of the war on terrorism, it’s a separate war

          The simple answer is “misunderstood”:

          First of all, let me clarify that Boston is not my hometown. I live in Texas. Second, both you misunderstood the Kerry site, and the Boston site misunderstood Kerry’s words. On the Kerry site, Kerry is correct by saying that the war on terrorism is not a simple manhunt from a checklist of names in a deck of cards. It is a global jihad movement with members scattered across the world, not just in Iraq. We must trace them and bring them down, and for that we must restore as much of the support we lost from our allies as possible. Continuing the war in Iraq will get us virtually nowhere. Again, if Kerry or anyone else supported Bush to go to war with hardly any evidence back then was because they assumed Bush knew what he was doing. Now it is evident that he did not.

          As for the Boston site, when Kerry said that stability in the Middle East is critical in the long term to “also” dealing with the war on terror, he meant that we have to get this over with as soon as possible. Thousands of Iraqis are loosing their lives in this war and they are not pleased with it. We were not pleased when we lost all those American lives on 9/11. Do you think they will respond any different? All this chaos can lead to further rebellion, and chances are they will start to join the jihad against us. On the other hand, this article was from December 2003, back when Saddam was captured. That was all big news back then but a lot has changed ever since. We are still in war, and if we continue the same way we are right now the outcome will not look pretty.

        • #2707364

          aldanatech – Not a bad reply

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Iraq is not part of the war on terrorism, it’s a separate war

          .
          Whether a person thinks that JFK or GWB can do a better job in this regard is another debate entirely, but it sounds as though you are capitulating to the fact that the war in Iraq is indeed part of the equation in the overall war on terrorism. I don’t think anyone who is even mildly informed could believe otherwise.

        • #2709083

          My proof

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to Ignorance run amok

          You don’t cite your sources that often so I’m surprised to bragged about doing it this time.

          Here is my proof:

          http://www.cfr.org/background/trade_jobs.php

          http://www.thekirkreport.com/2004/02/the_economics_o.html

        • #2709057

          Reply To: How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to My proof

          .
          Your one source said:

          http://www.cfr.org/background/trade_jobs.php

          ?There?s no evidence that outsourcing caused the recession, and there?s no evidence that it?s making it worse,? says Erica L. Groshen, an assistant vice president at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. Not all analysts agree with this assessment. Thea Lee, assistant director of public policy at the AFL-CIO, says outsourcing is a major cause of job loss since 2000. And, she says, ?outsourcing is one of the causes for the truly dismal job performance since the recession has ended.?

          Why do you believe only the one, and not the other? (Of course, you can’t “believe” both.)

          That came from YOUR source.

          What else came from YOUR source?

          What steps are politicians attempting to reverse outsourcing?

          There have been a variety of responses. Kerry is sponsoring legislation that would require operators answering help-desk calls for U.S. consumers in other countries to identify their location. He also wants to give tax incentives to American companies to keep jobs in the United States, close tax loopholes that he says encourage U.S. employers to move jobs overseas, and require other countries to meet more stringent environmental and labor standards so that employing people in those countries will cost more. Some states have proposed bills barring the export of some kinds of taxpayer-funded work, such as the processing of welfare checks. In addition, a Senate bill sponsored by George V. Voinovich (R-Ohio) and Craig Thomas (R-Wyoming) would limit the outsourcing of some work done for the federal government.

          What is the reaction of economists to these ideas?

          Many economists say that these steps are a form of economic protectionism that will only further slow the U.S. economic recovery. As an example, Benn Steil, the acting director of the Maurice R. Greenberg Center for Geoeconomic Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations, points to the overall negative economic effect that subsidies for the struggling U.S. steel industry had on the economy. Protecting the industry from lower-cost imported steel hurt U.S. carmakers and other domestic industries that use steel. ?It?s very clear that the price we paid as an economy per steel worker job was hundreds of thousands of dollars,? he says. On January 26, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan cautioned lawmakers not to increase trade barriers to keep jobs in the United States. While some workers will lose jobs because of outsourcing and other forms of foreign competition, he said the U.S. economy is resilient enough to generate new jobs to compensate. ?We can thus be confident that new jobs will replace old ones as they always have, but not without a high degree of pain for those caught in the job-losing segment of America?s massive job-turnover process,? Greenspan said.

          Why do economists say outsourcing is good for the economy?

          Many economists argue that outsourcing is just another form of free trade, which increases wealth in the economy. They say that employing workers at lower cost allows U.S. companies to be more efficient and productive, permitting them to create the same amount of goods with fewer resources. In turn, this lowers the price of the goods in the United States, strengthening U.S. companies and freeing workers for other tasks. The savings allows U.S. companies to stay afloat and expand in a highly competitive global market, says Jagdish N. Bhagwati, the Andr? Meyer senior fellow in international economics at the Council on Foreign Relations and the author of the recently published ?In Defense of Globalization.? ?Outsourcing is not destroying American jobs. These jobs are going anyway, because otherwise the goods would be too expensive to produce? and the companies that make them would no longer be competitive, he says.

          ———- Conclusion ———-

          ?Outsourcing is not destroying American jobs. These jobs are going anyway, because otherwise the goods would be too expensive to produce, and the companies that make them would no longer be competitive.”

          – Jagdish N. Bhagwati, the Andr? Meyer senior fellow in international economics at the Council on Foreign Relations

          On January 26, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan cautioned lawmakers not to increase trade barriers to keep jobs in the United States. While some workers will lose jobs because of outsourcing and other forms of foreign competition, he said the U.S. economy is resilient enough to generate new jobs to compensate. ?We can thus be confident that new jobs will replace old ones as they always have, but not without a high degree of pain for those caught in the job-losing segment of America?s massive job-turnover process,? Greenspan said

          ———————–

          Hey, it’s YOUR source that concludes that. So will you NOW believe it?

          And your other source, the “KirkReport”. Who’s that guy, Kirk? Just some individual who has a Web site.

          Okay, you believe Captain Kirk, I’ll believe Allan Greenspan.

          Geesh, is that as good as you can do?

          And there’s no way you formed your opinion from those sites. You got your opinion from John Kerry rhetoric, and when I asked you for your source of information, you searched and listed these.

          Sorry, that dog won’t hunt.

        • #2707090

          So now it is wrong to be fair

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to My proof

          The reason why I cited those sources was because several times I’ve been accused of being either leftist or biased. Well this time I wanted to be fair because there are several opinions regarding outsourcing jobs. Some say it helps the economy (which I disagree, it only helps on the short term), while others say it only helps companies that outsource (strongly agree). That is why I wanted to show both sides of the story. Regarding CFR, I for one agree with Thea Lee, assistant director of public policy at the AFL-CIO, in that “outsourcing is one of the causes for the truly dismal job performance since the recession has ended.”

          I also believe that Kerry’s plan to reverse outsourcing is the right choice. You can’t prohibit companies from outsourcing but you can reward them for not doing so. The Kirk Report, which belongs to an independent investor of 10 years of experience, simply presents its own opinion about this issue. I cited these sites because I saw them before, and of course I had to do a search on them because I couldn’t remember the URLs. Why didn’t I include my own opinion about his sites? Well I had to get up and get back to work. You don’t think I hang around here all day, do you?

          Is there anything better out there? Sure there is, it’s all over the place. Can you guess what it is? That’s right, Bush’s own presidential record in the handle of the economy. You can see it in the stats, the figures, and basically everywhere across the country. They are all far more reliable that anyone’s opinion and they all show that Bush’s way of handling the economy just doesn’t work. I mean, can you deny this administration brought us the biggest budget deficit in history? Can you deny that this was the only administration since Truman to loose more jobs than it could actually create? Can you deny we now pay almost twice as much for gas than we did not too long ago?

        • #2709159

          Nothing, unless you are trying to speak English

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to What’s wrong with “more cheaply”?

          Just like there’s nothing wrong with DIVEDED or BETTERER, in the American dialect anyway I suppose. The American dictionary actually has CHEAPLY listed as a word, however the examples of it’s use are hilarious. I decided to see if anyone else thought ‘cheaply’ was a word, one person laughed and said “sure, it’s betterer than less costly!”

          If I had used the term ‘more cheaply’ in school (especially in England) I would have be beaten to death. The two words just don’t fit nor compliment each other.

          Less expensively, at a lower cost, cheaper, more cost efectively, anything but a piss poor borderline slang (adverb, adjective combo)that implies uneducated North Amercian or simply DUH.

          I can see it being used on he steet, in a bar, but from the Nations Economic advisor?

          No wonder y’all diveded on the Republican campaign.

        • #2709146

          Actually it is correct

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Nothing, unless you are trying to speak English

          .
          And the two words do indeed fit and complment each other.

          cheaply (adv.)

          more cheaply

          most cheaply

          More cheaper would not be correct, but more cheaply is. (But cheaper would equal more cheaply, I suppose, in meaning.)

          Take a lesson:

          http://www.bartleby.com/68/25/1225.html

          (Hey, don’t feel bad, Oz. We all err once in a while.)

        • #2709141

          No Max, only in America

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Actually it is correct

          The word cheaply is not a common word, OUTSIDE of America. This is US dialect that actually gets used so often that it has made US dictionaries.

          Then again, most people ouside North America don’t understand Canadian OR US English.

          I just floored me that someone in a position as a national advisor would use a North American term and not a more gobally accepted form of English.

          Like I said, if I had used the term ‘more cheaply’ instead of less expensive, less costly etc., when growing up, I would have been strapped at least. I would have definitely failed English.

        • #2709067

          Oz – you’re dead wrong – admit it

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to No Max, only in America

          .
          You never admit you’re wrong, and you always insist you’re right – and you think you know every F^%$#^& thing there is to know. What a pompous and arrogant ass you are.

          But you’re wrong. You’re wrong with “American English”. You’re wrong with “Canadian English”. You’re wrong with “British English”.

          Moreover, even if it was only proper in “American English”, as you suggested, the guy was addressing Americans, you idiot, and it’s in extremely poor taste to criticize people for such things.

          By the way, Oz, YOU’RE WRONG!

          Not only that, but you’re a smart-ass little punk who’s WRONG!

          By the way, where did you get your college degree?

          (I didn’t think so.)

          ——————–

          Cambridge International Dictionary of English:

          cheaply: (adverb) for a low price:

          The shop round the corner does shoe repairs very cheaply.

          http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=12760&dict=CALD

        • #2709054

          What a fool you are

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to No Max, only in America

          Now find an example of MORE followed by Cheaply,
          other than in MS word of course.

          Now find an example used somewhere, I found a couple, The Western Farm Press, CNN personal article, Keep Media in California, Gidts from MOM in California, Counselling source in California etc. All US sources.

          My point being it is not a commonly used term ESPECIALLY by an economic advisor who’s key catch phrases should include, more cost effective, cheaper than, at a lower cost, less expensive than and many other NORMAL common English phrases.

          As for him speaking to US sources, do you STILL not realize after all the BS for the last four years that anything said by America is said to the world? Anything DONE by America as to be followed by the world?

          There’s no such thing as US politics anymore, YOU made your business EVERYONE’s business and bitched and complained wat those who didn’t want to make it their business. Get used to being on the world stage and having your every move scrutinized. You have always done it to other countries as you have judged them and their history and now have forced other countries to do the same.

          When, if ever, will you begin to see yoruself for who YOU are instead of mistaking everyone else for who they are?

          Cheaply is a word, okay I never said it wasn’t. More is a word, okay I neer said it wasn’t.
          More cheaply?

          Not a single person I have spoken to, and it includes MANY, including one of Vancouver’s top copywriters agrees that MORE CHEAPLY is a proper term, some would neer even use the word CHEAPLY on it’s own, it sounds too much like ‘drown-ded’.

          My point is, when using such nasty grammar, grammar which is not commonly recognized or used, how do you expect the 300 million + viewers to understand you? Latin was a commonly used language at one time too, therefore you could argue that your president issuing an adress in Latin is completely okay.

          This is exactly why people laugh at US education, because people try and use terms such as ‘more cheaply’ instead of cheaper or more cost effective and exect to be taken seriously.

          As for your other personal shots, that you can’t resist no matter how educated and professional you’d like to think you are, YOU have never admitted to your mistakes, I often have and did just this weekend when in a discussion with another peer who pointed out a mistake I made when reading his problems.

          Now Maxwell, when was the last time YOU stood corrected and actualy admitted as much?

          To err is human, I remember that but you could hardly disagree at that point.

          YOU Maxwell are the biggest example of an anal, arrogant American who simply believe he is better than the rest of those he speaks with, when in actuality you are far less to many of us.

          You have absolutely NO idea who people are here, except what you have been told, your analogies of people prove your inability to understand human nature and how you simply jump to devise stupid little conclusions that are gerneraly so far off the mark as to make people wonder how you head works, if at all.

          One such person, American posing as non-American, took such a bashing about his ignorance of Americans that it was published in his compay newsletter.

          You have made assertions and asumptions on other peoples character that I know personally and you have been so far out it’s not funny. The several times you tried to analyze me, you were horriby off base. Your inability to understand people and why people are the way they are is amusing at times but just retarded at other times when you simply don’t form any logical conclusion other than what you would like to believe.

          Your comments towards character and people’s thought process are from such an uneducated perspective, it scares me to think some people actually may listen to you, although you have no clue what you are talking about.

          Stick to what you and other Americans seem to know, politics from a US perspective.

          You have proven yourself so incompetent in judging people and their mind set that it hardly does you any justice, especially when you are actually pretending to be somewhat clever and educated about it.

          Making so many mistakes in your analysis of people here is one of the main reasons you have no credibility with many. People know you understand YOUR views on Bush quite well, you understand your side of the US economic system. Your views of character, mentality etc. should be embarrassing though, stick with what you understand, and that certainly isn’t people or the human mind.

        • #2709048

          You want examples? Here ya’ go

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to No Max, only in America

          .
          (You should really, at least, do a Web search before you make a further fool of yourself.)

          In the Kiev Downtown – apartment of de lux class, therefore if you want an apartment more cheaply – choose the Center or the Central area.

          http://www.rentapartment.com.ua/

          “15 Ways to Live More Cheaply – Money Magazine article. Although Simple Living and Frugality are not synonyms, sometimes frugality can enhance the ability to live simply!”

          http://www.simplelifecorp.com/

          “If obscene profits are what cause pharmaceutical drugs to cost so much, why haven’t socialist countries set up their own government-owned pharmaceutical enterprises to produce drugs more cheaply? Why don’t non-profit organizations here do that?”

          – Thomas Sowell: Graduated magna cum laude from Harvard University (1958), he went on to receive his master’s in economics from Columbia University (1959) and a doctorate in economics from the University of Chicago (1968). In the early ’60s, Sowell was an economist with the U.S. Department of Labor, and currently is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute in Stanford, Calif.

          http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/ts20031223.shtml

          “That was a very daunting challenge, and happily somebody said, “well, you know biological diversity in the watershed can do all of this for us much more cheaply”. For literally something approaching a tenth of that cost, various parts of the watershed were protected and brought into different kinds of management. So there is a permanent, cheaper solution to providing adequate water for New York City.”

          – Remarks by Mr. Thomas Lovejoy (Special Counsellor to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution)

          Gee, what a dilemma. Place faith in the MIGHTY OZ or a Harvard Graduate.

          Do you want more? Do your own Web search, you loser.

          ADMIT YOU’RE WRONG!!!!!!!!!!

          ———-

          Now go away and play, little boy. I have things to do. And I can certainly get them done more cheaply if I stop wasting my time debating such things with an illiterate idiot such as yourself.

          Y’all have a nice day, now, ya’ hear.

        • #2709041

          You’re joking Max

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to No Max, only in America

          Mr. Holmes and his fact finding:
          Certainly you don’t think that you will prove that MORE CHEAPLY is a common English expression by posting links to THREE US websites and one from Russia that has the following aragraph in it.
          “fill in the form on page Order apartment, and also the specify requirements by apartment type, location and maximal cost (our managers will choose optimal apartment for you).”

          I suppose THAT is proper English too?

          Geez Max, even the Western Farmers website I found gave a beter example than that.

          As for WHERE you got you education, it matters about as much as how many times you kids chew gum on Thursday afternoons and about as important as you are.

          We’ve already seen what a US education has taught your governmet advisors, are you going to lump yourself in with those knobs?

          I JUST got off the phone from talking to my brother, he studied law and linguistics at Cambridge. He laughed when I asked him, without any prior knowledge of why I was asking, his question was “SURE IT’S A COMMON PHRASE, TO A YAKEE MAYBE…” I won’t say the rest, it makes me sound like an American patriot.

          Great ejumacation y’all got in that fancy book learnin’ school.

          Now go and beat you buy scouts and disctate the world to them so they can gw up to be as anal a unaccepting of the rest of the world as you are.

          Funny enough, I didn’t even call you a bunch of names, you have really let yourself slide this last year or so, I suppose it just shows who you really are under you facade anyway.

          So as many have told me before, your sources are often unqualified and you simply post links thinking nobody will check thm out. Many of your links show the opposite of you point and then you slip to th eother side so that the link actualy supports your point. I have been shown examples before, as have many other peers and while may of your sources are credible, there are many that aren’t, this is just one such example.

        • #2709036

          Give it up Oz

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to No Max, only in America

          .
          One of my examples came from a British grammatical source, and another from a Harvard graduate.

          You’re drowning and won’t reach for the “mistaken” life preserver. It’s really easy to admit that you might have been mistaken. Try it – for once.

          You are really showing your pretentiousness.

          And just to save you from calling your educated brother again (since you lack the proper education):

          pretentiousness: n 1: lack of elegance as a consequence of being pompous and puffed up with vanity [syn: ostentation, ostentatiousness, pomposity, pompousness, splashiness, inflation] 2: the quality of being pretentious (creating a false appearance of great importance or worth)

          Now go away.

        • #2709028

          BLOME

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to No Max, only in America

          Perhaps this is the whole problem with America that the rest of the world can’t seem to accept. No matter how wrong you are, you will always insist you are right, while accusing others of the same. This even extends to an AMERICAN thinking that his use of the bastardized language which they stole from their former country is more correct than its origin. You see out but not in. I think this has been the basis of ALL of your country’s problems over the last few hundred piddly years you have existed as a spin off of other societies.

          The reason I asked my brother was because while his education trumps yours by light years, I know he has spcificaly studied linguistics in one of the world’s most highly respected universities and theefore definitely knows FAR better than a peon such as yourself.

          At no time whatsoever did I mention that I was smarter than you, had a better understanding of English than you or anyone else here or that I had a better education, these were all your irrelevant comments.

          As for your sources:
          Rentapartment – Russian and full of grammatical mistakes.

          SimplelifeCorp – US based in Elkhart,IN

          TownHall.com – quoted from Thomas Sowell from North Carolina

          Thomas Lovejoy – Now I KNOW you just did a search for the phrase MORE CHEAPLY, as you have quoted a greenie, whatever would your friends think of you?!? Bad Maxwell, now get back in the other corner.

          So what you post as a correction, is actually just a list of US websites, as I said it must be a US term, to support the use of what must be the poorest attempt at grammar I’ve heard.

          Now your point was that it is not an uncommon term? How so? Because Americans use it?

        • #2708949

          More – more cheaply

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to No Max, only in America

          .
          Oz must have received an education that was most cheaply, if he can’t even recognize proper English.

          More examples:

          “The government can always finance something more cheaply than anyone else, the government can borrow money more cheaply than anyone else.”

          – Lord Lamont, chancellor under John Major

          http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools/story/0%2C5500%2C802653%2C00.html

          “The reason is that foreigners can do a lot of IT jobs just as well and much more cheaply than they can be done in the United States.”

          – Robert Reich (Democrat) Secretary of Labor during the Clinton administration

          http://www.cio.com/archive/092203/reich.html

          Factory owners were able to move their products around the country more quickly, more cheaply and with greater safety than previously. For example, Britain?s main fuel was coal.

          – text from (British) paper, “Industrial Change in Britain”

          http://www.planetpapers.com/Assets/3594.php

          “Experts have warned of a heroin “epidemic” in the UK as the drug becomes more cheaply and easily available in both inner cities and rural areas. ”

          – From BBC News article

          http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/352180.stm

          “I read an article some time ago about one very poor part of the world where non-iodized salt was being sold much more cheaply than iodized salt, and this had led to a marked increase in mental retardation in the local population.”

          – From BBC report, “A pint of beer, some bread and a slab of your finest cheese”

          http://www.ordinarygweilo.com/food_and_drink/

          “It is now becoming possible to manufacture zeolites more quickly and cheaply using microwaves.”

          – From Former Science Editor, BBC World Service

          http://www.britannia.com/science/replast.html

          “…..some hospital services can be provided safely and more cheaply in the community…..A national survey of purchasing authorities in Britain shows that most authorities are either supporting.”

          http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/312/7036/923

          “But British food was being produced more cheaply and flooded the market, driving French food producers out of … ”

          http://www2.austincc.edu/rebhist/2312II.html

          ——————–

          This is too easy. Do I have to post a hundred British examples to get OZ the “never wrong” to admit he’s wrong?

          The sad part is not that he was wrong, but the fact that he just can’t admit it.

        • #2708946

          And – Either – Or

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to No Max, only in America

          .
          And, his “expert” brother is either equally ignorant OR Oz lied and didn’t call anybody. I suspect the latter.

        • #2706959

          First of all

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to No Max, only in America

          Leave your comments to me, there’s no need to bring my brother ito it as a target for your nonsense. I haven’t ever brought YOUR family in as a target of my agression against you, it is not right.

          Secondly, only a complete idiot such as yourself would be able to ignore such a faus pas and then try and justify it as commonly used English. Damn, you’re dumb enough to believe Bush’s BS, what else would you like to buy.

          +You have proen time and time again to everyone hee that you have such a blind bias FOR Bush that you will stoop as low as needed to make your defence, you will stop at nothing to make your point. Then you go calling other people mislead by the media, liars, and all the other retarded names you throw around in an effort to enforce what YOU beliee to be the truth. To top it all off you then accuse people of being know it alls or people wo MUST have their say, when that is EXACTLY what you do in every comment or response you make, you ONLY accept YOUR opinion, bottom line, except in YOUR case it is a CORE SET OF VALUES, I say Bullsh*t, you lie you face of you blow hot air and then gt pissed when people don’t listen. YUO are the one who is pig headed, unable to accept difference or reason with two opposing opinions. You hae shown yourself here for al to see as a person who simply blames the world for everything he is guilty of himself. NO wonder people gave up trying to talk with you.

        • #2709064

          Pounding it in

          by cactus pete ·

          In reply to Actually it is correct

          Way to go, Max. I noticed you did not err in your usage of it.

        • #2709053

          Way to go, dpetrak

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Pounding it in

          .
          I knew that if you were still reading these silly messages that my commment would possibly tweak a response from you. Not everyone would remember, but I was certain that you would. (And I’m glad you did.)

          LAter….

          (I always love to learn new things.)

        • #2708904

          As usual Oz, you’re wrongt!!!!!

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to Nothing, unless you are trying to speak English

          The Oxford Concise Dictionary lists cheap as an adjective, cheaply as an adverb and cheapness as a noun. Sorry about that.:D 😉

        • #2707045

          So what’s your point? You don’t have one AGAIN!

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to As usual Oz, you’re wrongt!!!!!

          I never said ANYTHING about them beig legitimate words, it is the use og th PHRASE that I have not seen ANYWHERE but in the USA, or in MAx’s poorly translated Russian website.

          You DON’T have a point, you NEVER have a point.

          You DON’T correct ANYONE, and have NEVER corrected anyone.

          You just go off on some unrelated tangent and make it seem as if in correction, as you have ALWAYS done here.

          Get a life.

        • #2706958

          Such a pity to see a mind wasted even if it is only Oz’z!!!!!

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to So what’s your point? You don’t have one AGAIN!

          Gee little man every time you open your mouth you put your basic lack of intelligence on display for all to see. Sad, sad ,sad. A real pity!!! How lomg have you been experiencing these delusions of intelligent thought???? :p

        • #2706949

          Okay well at least TRY to make sense.

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to So what’s your point? You don’t have one AGAIN!

          That last post was one of your saddest yet, and there was a geat deal of competition in that respect.

          Please explain to me, the delusional idiot, exactly what you mean on a poit by point basis.

          You had no reply, no correction and nothing to say as always, so you just called me names.

          Man, your game is getting so tiring, and so immature.

        • #2708488

          Oh Oz what a tiresome little man(and that’s questionable) you are!!!!!

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to So what’s your point? You don’t have one AGAIN!

          Hey Oz is it true you squat to pee??? Are you a “girly mon”??? That’s what we’re hearing. The old lady split because the little wizard wasn’t so wonderful anymore??? The little soldier goes on parade but can’t come to attention never mind salute??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA 😀 Still haven’t grasped the idea of the editor yet either and after all that fuss!!! Poor, poor, Oz. 🙁 What a pathetic fool.

        • #2708460

          Scared of????

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to So what’s your point? You don’t have one AGAIN!

          What the hell are you on about now?

          DO you even know where and who you are?

        • #2707496

          That’s right

          by aldanatech ·

          In reply to More cheaply?

          Yes. That was an actual quote.

    • #2707501

      Does Bush’s record reflect that the economy is actually growing?

      by aldanatech ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics and other sources, this is what Bush’s record reflect as for the handle of the economy:

      JOBS

      2,931,000: Number of jobs lost in the private sector since Bush took office.1

      135,000: Average number of jobs created monthly under every President since Truman.2

      -79,189: Average number of jobs created monthly under Bush.1

      2,447,000: Number of people who have become unemployed since Bush took office.1

      37%: Increase in the unemployment rate since Bush took office.1

      4.1%: Unemployment rate when Bush took office in January 2001.1

      5.6%: Unemployment rate in March 2004.1

      8,170,000: Total number of unemployed Americans.1

      675,000: Number of Americans experiencing long-term unemployment (27 weeks or more) when Bush took office in January 2001.1

      1,871,000: Number of Americans suffering long-term unemployment in March 2004.1

      177%: Increase in long-term unemployment under Bush.1

      11.8%: Percentage of consumers who believe jobs are plentiful.3

      760,000: Number of workers who have lost their unemployment insurance since December 2002.4

      BALLOONING DEFICTS

      $5.6 Trillion: Baseline surplus for the 10-year period for FY 2002-2011, as projected by the Congressional Budget Office when Bush took office in January 2001.5

      $5.2 Trillion: Budget deficit over next 10 years if Bush’s 2005 budget proposal is enacted.6

      $2.4 Trillion: Amount Bush’s budget will raid from the Social Security and Medicare trust funds over the next 10 years.6

      $478 Billion: Budget deficit for 2004 as predicted by CBO, if Bush’ s proposals are enacted.6

      $188 Billion: Amount Bush’s budget deficit for 2004 exceeds the highest budget deficit in history, which was posted in 1992 by Bush’s father.6

      BUSH’S 2003 “JOBS AND GROWTH” PLAN

      $2.2 Trillion: Ten-year cost of Bush’s proposed tax cuts including additional costs for interest on the national debt.7

      32.4%: Percent of tax cut for the top 1 percent of wage earners under the Bush “growth” plan.8

      8.5%: Percent of tax cuts for the bottom 60 percent of wage earners under the Bush “growth” plan.8

      64 Million: Number of taxpayers (48 percent) who receive $100 or less under the Bush “growth” plan.9

      $30,127: Average tax cut for the top 1 percent of taxpayers under the Bush “growth” plan.9

      $289: Average tax cut for the middle 20 percent of taxpayers under the Bush “growth” plan.9

      $4-5 Billion: Amount Bush tax proposal would cost states.10

      1 Million: Number of taxpayers the Alternative Minimum Tax affected in 1999.11

      36 Million: Number of taxpayers the Alternative Minimum Tax will affect in 2010 because of Bush’s tax cuts and his failure to address the AMT.11

      LOWER INCOME, RISING COSTS

      1.1%: Decrease in real median household income in 2002.12

      10%: Increase in bankruptcies since Bush took office.13

      1,625,213: Number of consumers who filed for bankruptcy in 2003.13

      24%: Drop in consumer confidence since Bush took office.14

      50%: Increase in out-of-pocket health care costs for workers since Bush took office.15

      14%: Increase in the cost of job-based health insurance in 2003; highest rate in 13 years.15

      8.7%: Increase in the cost of the 10 most-used prescription drugs in 2003.16

      61%: Percent of employers who cited rising drug costs as a major cause of premium increases in 2003.15

      11.5%: Increase in gas prices since 2000.17

      49: Number of states that increased tuition at their public colleges and universities in 2003. State budget cuts fueled by the Bush recession have forced colleges to hike tuitions and fees-threatening access to higher education for low-income students.18

      35%: Increase in tuition and fees at four-year public institutions since Bush took office, adjusted for inflation.19

      Sources: 1 Bureau of Labor Statistics, 3/04; 2 House Appropriations Committee Minority Staff, 3/04; 3 Conference Board, 3/04; 4 Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, 2/25/04; 5 Congressional Budget Office, Budget and Economic Outlook: Fiscal Years 2002-2011, 1/01; 6 Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, 2/1/04; CBO, An Analysis of Bush’s Budgetary Proposals for Fiscal Year 2005, 3/04; 7 Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, 1/30/04, 1/21/04; 8 CTJ Fact Sheet, 1/8/03; 9 CTJ Fact Sheet, 2/3/03; 10 CBPP Fact Sheet, 1/10/03; 11 Brookings Institute, Tax Policy Center, The AMT: Out of Control, 9/18/02; New York Times, 1/10/03; 12 U.S. Census Bureau, “Money Income in the United States: 2002”; 13 American Bankruptcy Institute, 3/04; 14 Conference Board, 3/04; 15 Kaiser Family Foundation, Employer Health Benefits Survey 2000 and 2003; 16 AdvancePCS, 8/25/03; 17 CNN.com, 2/23/04; 18 Associated Press, 8/25/03; 19 College Board, College Costs 2003

      • #2709061

        Good Job!

        by stormyfyre ·

        In reply to Does Bush’s record reflect that the economy is actually growing?

        Research well done, and you used facts too.

      • #2709039

        Looking at the economy, neither Bush nor Kerry have said squat about this!!

        by sleepin’dawg ·

        In reply to Does Bush’s record reflect that the economy is actually growing?

        In recent months we’ve heard a lot about “offshoring” from politicians
        from John Kerry on down. Much of the attack has been directed at US
        corporations who go offshore legally to avoid taxes on business income.
        An even greater outcry has centered on supposedly lost American jobs
        being shipped offshore to low cost labor markets such as Mexico and
        India. (That trade creates US profits and jobs appear to be ignored).

        But those trends are “peanuts” compared to another offshore development
        that poses an even greater threat to America and the world. Some experts
        see this other incredible “offshoring” problem exploding within months
        — with disastrous consequences. And almost no one talks about it. Definitely not Bush nor Kerry!!!

        We’re talking about who owns America.

        Right now, foreign investors hold an amazing $7.3 trillion of US debts.
        The US holds $5.3 trillion of foreign assets, so America is already $2
        trillion out of balance. That foreign/domestic deficit equals 20% of
        the US annual gross domestic product! And our trade balance of payments
        deficit goes up tens of billions monthly. It was a record $55.8 billion
        in June alone.

        You may recall some years ago when Americans got upset by extensive
        Japanese ownership of US real estate. Now, two nations, Japan and China,
        own more than 50% of all US government bonds that finance the national
        debt. At least $120 billion in US Treasury bonds is Chinese owned.
        Another $141 billion is in Japanese ownership. And 35% of all that US
        debt matures in less than three years, so it must be re-financed before
        then to keep America’s government and economy afloat.

        This US federal debt of over $7.3 trillion keeps on climbing. With the
        enormous cost of the continuing war in Iraq, as well as the “war” on
        terror, it’s likely the US debt could pass the $10 trillion mark within
        a few years. Talk about tax cuts! Each and every American now owes
        about $25,000, dividing that debt equally among the 293,955,248 citizens; man, woman and child.

        Doom sayers predict that within 12 months the US will face double-digit
        interest rates, $5 per gallon gas prices ;), plummeting home prices and
        rampant bankruptcies:(. They say the US financial markets finally will pay
        for decades of political deficit spending, borrowing, ballooning debt
        and deficits.:p They say the damage has already been done; we’re only waiting for
        the dreadful consequences.

        Forgive me for saying this, but right now is the time to go offshore
        for ironclad asset protection and foreign investments far better than
        those based in the US. Whatever, heavy weather definitely lies ahead!!!!! Will the US
        survive the gathering whirlwind??????? I hope so!!!!!!

    • #2709063

      1/2 of America is blind.

      by stormyfyre ·

      In reply to How well did our president do: Looking back at the Bush administration

      Whe cant people see just how bad this President has been for this Country. He promised he was a uniter not a divider, 3 years later we are still divided. If you have ever been on the bad side of things, I challange you to see what Bush has done for you. Sure he is great for starting wars and making us feel safe from WMD even if they never show up. Lets face we are going to have to pay taxes no matter what. If we dont take care of the folks who are down on their luck (this includes welfare, social services, elderly, sick and just plain deadbeats ) or society will fail. We will pay one way or another, maybe in crime disease, or hatred for the US. This President has insulted just about every Leader of the Free world, we have lost many allies because of this. We launched a pre-empted strike on another nathion with poor intelligenge to back it up. Now we are finding that this is all untrue. There have been less reasons to Impeach a President, such as his sex habits. We can fight all we want, but in just a few short years history will tell the real truth and we will really know what kind of President George W. Bush really was. There was a time in 1861 when a newly elected President decided to ingnore half a country, this resulted in over 600,000 dead Americans. Hopefully we now have a political system that prevents this. This year when you go to vote, educate yourselves. Dot believe just what you see on television or read in the magazines in the grocery store. Go to the National Archives, the FBI website (Freedom of information act)Read from legimate news sources like the Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, BBC, and try other sources outside of this country, they tend not to pad the truth. Look to your heart when you go to vote. Are really any better now? Could everthing said about Bush be a lie? Not likely. And for those who complain about the elections and the President that was elected, AND DIDNT VOTE! Get of your BUTTS this time and make a difference, you really can. The last thing to remember is to keep an open mind and look to the past, it has all the answers.

      • #2709047

        If half of America is “blind”. . . . .

        by maxwell edison ·

        In reply to 1/2 of America is blind.

        .
        ……why isn’t it possible that you are among those in “the blind” half?

        • #2709038

          Perfect example

          by stormyfyre ·

          In reply to If half of America is “blind”. . . . .

          We all half to make our choice, one will be wrong one will be right. I have not tried to prevent you from saying how you feel, I welcome it. I think its ok to question Authority, especially a President. I also believe it is my right to discuss how I feel without being called a NON-American or a communist or any other words the other half can come up with. I welcome your question; I also believe I have more than enough information to back up what I say. The most important one to me is. Am I better off now than 4 years ago? I can honestly say no. I am one of those small business people who pay $1,600.00 per month just for my health insurance. That is just below the average wage per month in my state. Why is my President not addressing this? I have lost several of my friends in Afghanistan and Iraq. Why isnt my President addressing this issue. My parents barely survive on social Security and were buying medications from our cousins in Canada. Why is this now illegal? Small business owners were given a tax write off, if they were to purchase any SUV or Luxury car, I could actually write up to $80,000.00 off. Why is this happening when gas is a $1.80 per gallon. Your question was, am I the half that is blind? Can you honestly ask yourself that?

        • #2709035

          Medication in Canada

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Perfect example

          Actually, Canadian health care is hammering any US or private pharmaceutical companies for sending medication south.

          Canadian companies are no longer allowed to fill US prescriptions in Canadian pharmacies.

          We don’t sell retail medicine here, our pharmacies, hospitals and doctors are all under government regulations to ensure consistency, competency and equality of patient care.

        • #2709019

          As usual Oz, you’ve only managed to get it partly right!!!!!

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to Medication in Canada

          Talk about half-assed info!!!! Where in hell do you get your information???? The back of a cereal box??? Or maybe Saturday morning cartoons???

          “Canadian companies are no longer allowed to fill US prescriptions in Canadian pharmacies.”

          1:- There has been no law passed YET prohibiting this. WHAT HAS HAPPENED is that there have been shortages of certain pharmaceuticals caused by the large numbers of cross border INTERNET shoppers and INTERNET pharmacies have been told they will not be able to repurchase new supplies if they do not cut back on cross border shipments because the US parent companies are losing profits. Cross border shoppers who enter Canada and physically purchase their meds are PERMITTED TO SO AS LONG AS THEY PRESENT A PRESCRIPTION FROM A DULY LICENSED CANADIAN PHYSICIAN. A lot of Canadian GP’s are making a small fortune on the side by rewriting scripts from US doctors. The busses role in, stop at a GP’s office for a new prescription and then roll to the pharmacy. Some GP’s are especially greedy in that they will only write for a minimal renewal number, say two and demand extra for a higher number.

          “We don’t sell retail medicine here, our pharmacies, hospitals and doctors are all under government regulations to ensure consistency, competency and equality of patient care.”

          2:-Maybe this is so in your province but I doubt it. Pharmacies are private enterprises and are in business to make money. You can even buy their shares on the stock market i.e. Shoppers Drug Mart, Jean Coutu Pharmacies etc. etc. Hospitals and doctors are regulated but so far that’s it.

          If the Wonderful Lizard of Oz, he who knows all, sees all and done all is going to set himself up as a definitive source of knowledge you would think he would make a greater attempt at accuracy. While we’re at it; it was absolutely divine the way you piddled all over yourself about TR’s editor. It’s too bad no one has seen any evidence of your using it yet. The spelling, never mind the grammar, is still attrocious. I suppose you will now procede to give another of your lying rants and call me various kinds of names. Go ahead. It will just serve as a further demonstration of your ignorance and crudity. So go to it horse lover. We all await your next tirade, not in awe of its intelligence but in its open display of stupidity.

        • #2708994

          Are you REALLY that stupid or is it your game?!?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to As usual Oz, you’ve only managed to get it partly right!!!!!

          You’ve done it for me.

          “I suppose you will now procede[u](sic)[/u] to give another of your lying rants and call me various kinds of names. Go ahead. It will just serve as a further demonstration of your ignorance and crudity. So go to it horse lover. We all await your next tirade, not in awe of its intelligence but in its open display of stupidity.”

          Your disclaimer says it all, “It only works one way, you can dish it out but find it ignorant when it is tossed back.”

          As for my half assed explanation of Canada’s medical system, I was brief and simple in my response; you equate this to a half truth.

          Get a life, in your own damn province and stop coming here to where you hate it so much but feel it necessary to crap in our woods and catch our fish. Why would you CHOOSE such a crappy place for a holiday to begin with?

          Your point about Canadian prescriptions is redundant and corrects NOTHING. As I said, Canadian doctors have been told NOT to fill US prescriptions and in BC it is being made illegal and offenders have been warned of the penalties.

          FOR THE LAST TIME, if you SAY you are going to correct something, at least correct it as opposed to adding to it.

          The government, that?s why your American buddies say we are socialists, regulates ALL Pharmacies and Hospitals AND Doctors.

          You seem to not understand that point.

          ONCE AGAIN, the government regulates ALL Pharmacies and Hospitals AND Doctors.

          YOU HAVE NO POINT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          Yet you pretend you are correcting people to try and seem clever, you do this ALL the time. You have NOTHING of any substance to say but put YOUR account of the facts forward as if in correction, have you AlWAYS been this DIM or is it age? Do you think others are really too dumb to notice this?

          MEDICINE IS NOT SOLD ON A RETAIL BASIS!

          Drop in to Shoppers Drug mart and see how much Tylenol 3 or Ativan you can buy from the candy counter, [b]you REALLY aren’t THAT stupid are you?[/b] I think you’re just trying to wind me up, no person is really as dumb as you pretend to be.

          Certainly pharmaceutical companies are traded on the market, they need to be for research and development funding. This is not to be equated to the US pharmaceutical industry though. I STILL think you must be American or at least think you’re American, everything you do or say is a complete suck up to the US and your new found US buddies. I see you contradict yourself just to be accepted by them, sad man, REALLY sad.

          Now as far as being a horse lover, my God, strike me down now, what a sinner I’ve become!!
          Now you are just going to sit on THAT little piece of irrelevant information as your excuse to NOT “Come looking for me” as you suggested you would.

          You then say I’m a coward because you lied to me that you were flying into YVR to refuel on your way to Duncan. I said I would be in Vancouver that day and would GLADLY meet you at the airport, now you are suddenly flying direct to Duncan from Montreal, I don’t think Lear?s are landing in Duncan anyway and certainly not larger commercial airlines.

          So here’s the scoop.

          You say you are going to come looking for me, I tell you where I live, give you my email and cell phone number to ease your search.

          You say you will be flying in to Vancouver, I offer to meet you AT the airport to ease your search.

          You say you are flying direct to Duncan, I give you directions to the smallest town in Vancouver Island (Less of a population than most movie theatres) and give you my cellular phone number so you can call me for help if needed.

          Now YOU suggest I am a coward that is avoiding YOU? LOL 😀
          Give your head a shake old timer, some of these idiots may buy your crap but most don’t.

          Actually had an EXCELLENT day Saturday (well over $3,000.00 and a piss poor day Sunday Lost about $200.00) oh well easy come easy go, but perhaps you could enlighten me as to what exactly it is that you don’t understand about hose racing or the people that follow it?

          Remember, don’t try and be a tough old man, you already have my info.

          Failure to meet and prove a point that [b]YOU[/b] said you were going to make is 100% your fault and it has nothing to do with me.

          One minute you tell me your are crippled and ready for another bone marrow transplant but are really handy on crutches, handy enough for a few days fishing in the province you hate that is full of ugly women and old people. Then you are flying DIRECT to the island, calling me a coward for wanting to find you at the airport and fulfill YOUR request to meet so you can prove your old and decrepit and I’m an a**hole for beating up an old crippled man (looks good on the ole record), then when a GIRL asks about you, you are getting on but are ex-military, into martial arts, sports and you keep quite fit and NO mention of being a 60 year old washed up misery bag of crap with a bad back.

          What a nut job, I really do feel sorry for people like yourself who are so disgruntled at the world they’ve helped build that they see it fit to be a miserable old codger everyday.

          And I’m sorry, but since when was respecting peers or the staff here considered Peeing all over oneself?

          When I said to Jay that it was a great addition to the site was I sucking up or just commenting on the fact that we’d been begging for this for over two years and it has finally been done?
          Oh that’s right, you wouldn’t know. Don’t help, don’t participate, just bitch and whine at those that do.

          Get bent, old man.

          As for typos and grammar, at one time neither were considered an issue here, for someone who as nothing to say and no relevnt point to make, I uderstand how it is a point of interest for you, as I’m sure you have many hours to sit and recheck your typing and moreso you care what others think of your ability to type.

          Funnily enough, THIS post has no typos that I’ve noticed, except your own.

          Enjoy you day, it must be one of your last, make the most of it and stop complaining that you are old and a younger generation is taking over the world while trying to fix your gnerations mistakes. Get old gracefully, it does’nt look good for other seniors who have a positive outlook on life and the youth of the world to have a miserable old man making seniors out to be grumpy old men.

        • #2708933

          Geez!!! Can you be any more stupid than you already are Oz???

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to Are you REALLY that stupid or is it your game?!?

          Once more for the feeble minded. I am NOT flying into Duncan and if you keep that nonsense up you will just confirm what a liar and an idiot you are. My plane is a Citation II/SP and the last time I looked the only place I could comfortably land it is at YYJ and I’ll be parking at an FBO next to the tower, at something called the East Camp and you can reach that via Canora road. Maybe one of the reasons I fly out there periodically is because I do business out there and I also own properties on both the mainland and the island. The fact that I’m doing a favor for a friend must have slipped your mind, that is if you have one left after all your “dope and ‘shrooms”. Whether you want to meet me or not doesn’t concern me. The Island isn’t that big and eventually I’ll run across you and when I do, well we will see if you’re m