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Hybrids are teh lose!

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by forum surfer

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This weekend I took my girlfriend to the mountains where we stayed in a nice cabin. She's a bit of an environmentalist ,which makes us polar opposites in some respects since my garage consists of a gas guzzling f150 to pull my guzzling boat and a gas guzzling 500 hp blown mustang.

SOMEHOW she talked me into driving her Prius as opposed to one of my vehicles. Common sense told me not to listen, but being a man a being susceptible to suggestions from attractive red heads I loaded the Prius and headed out.

On flat lands the car was mediocre at best. I struggled to keep pace on the interstate if any acceleration was involved. Once I got on the windy, twisty, steep mountain roads acceleration became an exercise in futility. I was literally in fear of being ran over by large trucks that in MY car I can easily distance myself from. On steep interstate grades 80+mph was a hopeless dream as 18 wheelers roared past while I had the accelerator floored to the point my toe was hanging out of the grill.

The trip up the mountain to the cabin on a secluded one lane dirt/paved/gravel road was equally nerve racking. Sports car like ability was definitely not there.

Overall it felt like a very dangerous experience. Hybrids (unless we're talking one of those 300+ horsepower Lexus or GMC trucks) have their place on flat ground as daily transportation. I'll never again load one down with a weekends worth of luggage (maybe 85-120lbs), myself (175lbs) and my girl (110 lbs). I'll gladly pay more for gas in exchange for actually having some power to spare under my right foot. The wear and tear on the vehicle can't be that great considering I had to drive it like I hated to even attempt keeping up with traffic.

Anyone else have similar complaints?

19 replies

by delbertpgh

Is this some gimmicky slacker-era English thing? I usually figure "teh" is "the" with an errant index finger at work, but that assumption doesn't get me closer to an understanding. Whachamean?

I've always appreciated European diesels, and I don't know why they never get anywhere here. I guess in part because the Europeans generally tax diesel at a rate lower than gasoline, it's effectively a form of subsidized fuel over there; here, the cost advantages are reversed. Still, I love driving Renaults, Peugots, and Citroens, going a hundred on the Autoroutes and defying death to gun past haytrucks and grandmas on shoulderless two-lane rural roads.

I scorn gas hogs myself, but a Prius just doesn't strike me as engineered to address a boy's needs and dreams. I won't have one.

by forum surfer

Don't feel bad, I'm in my early 30's and my girlfriend is in her mid 20's. I spend alot of time googling her text messeges to find out what the h3ll they mean. I was just saying the smaller hybrids suck for lack of a better word.

The diesel thing never caught on here in the states. I've driven a few diesel Mercedes and I really liked them. I know we need to cut down on fuel consumption, but I refuse to do it at the expense of losing horsepower. That's why I'm glad to see Lexus released some high performance hybrids that don't have "HYBRID" written all over it in big cheesy letters...the just usre the simple "h" moniker on the end of the standard model numbers.

by charliespencer

You haul the rest of the junk, I'll tote your girlfriend.

Your other vehicles are an F150 and a 'stang. Of course a Prius isn't going to compare well with those; you're comparing apples and oranges. Have you ever made this trip with a non-hybrid four-cylinder car, something similar in size and handling to a Prius? You're going to find you have the same problems with acceleration, handling, top-end speed on an incline, etc., with many small sedans and most compacts.

by forum surfer

a 4 cylinder accord and an s2000. The problem was similar with both cars (unless you drove the s2000 like you hated it) but I at no time felt totally underpowered and helpless to merge with faster interstate traffic on inclines or short ramps. I?m sorry, but when traffic is running 80mph it?s just not safe to try and merge at 60, you need to be keeping up with traffic. The accord was an excellent car that got great gas mileage?but it was truly a point a to point b car. It?s a car for people that don?t enjoy driving and want to be isolated from the road. IMO it was the very definition of a ?vanilla? sedan. While the s2000 was a sports car and handled nicely, it simply felt like it was lacking testicles unless you kept the rpms over 7000. Driving around town I missed the torquey feel of an American (or anyone else?s) v8. And it was honestly a disappointing car. After reading all the hype (I bought it the first year it was made available)I was expecting a quick ride. It was one of the slowest ?sports? cars I?ve ever owned even when driven to the limit.

Driving the prius brought me back to when I was 16 years old and driving a beat up 4 cylinder, 4 speed 1985 ranger that couldn?t get over 80 unless you pushed it off of a high cliff. It just left a sour taste in my mouth and I don't think I'd even want it for a commuter car. Especially if you factor in the fact that it's not exactly a cheap solution for a car to simply drive to work and back, unless you're making a 60 or more mile commute

by robo_dev

Granted the f20C is a great motor and the power/displacement ratio is impressive, but....you have to drive it like you stole it.

Saab has always had engines of similar size with turbos calibrated to come it at mid rpm.

So with a light-pressure turbo saab 2.0 or 2.3, they're pushing you with around 200 ft/lb at around 3000 rpm and 200+ hp around 5500.

Imagine a S2000 with that kind of midrange and low end?

200+ HP is great, but that steeeeeep torque curve steals the fun out of the S2000.

by jamesrl

The Prius is a purpose built car - the idea was to max out the mileage in a compact. And the body shape, tires etc are all customized to that end.

What was done with the Accord hybrid, The Lexus RX 400h, Ford Escape etc, was to just add hybrid capabilities to an existing vehicle. The Accord and Escape already had 4 cylinder engines that were adequate, the hybrid is tweaking out some further gains, but at the cost of some additional weight.

I talked to a doctor on the golf course who traded his RX 350 in for a RX 400h. He said it had all the power of the 350, but not much better mileage.

I agree with you on the S2000. Wouldn't buy one for that reason.

Saw an interesting Top Gear episode where they were talking about the challenges of owning a classic 60s British supercar like the Jag XKE or Aston Martin DB5. They had horrible brakes and electrics compared to todays family sedans, and some very very tricky handling issues.

For fun they did a drag race between 2 restored cars (6 cylinder XKE and the DB5) and a brand new Accord 4 cylinder. The Accord beat the old 2 at the quarter mile. And again, it was the 4 cylinder Accord.

James

by forum surfer

It was so weak below 5000 rpms you would need at least 200 more horsepower before it even felt strong. That motor is only good for top end wailing, not low end grunt. If you tuned it for massive boost and power at high rpms you would probably lose what little low-mid power that's already there. If you tuned it for low-mid (which a turbo is great for) power on the big end would suffer. After exploring turbo/superchargers/and nitrous options I decided it was best to sell that piece of junk. I seriously hated the car. Not to mention the fact that performance clutches for that thing costed waaaaaay too much...and they're notorious for exploding after a few 7000 rpm launches. And trust me, launching that car at anything below 7000 rpms is a long way from impressive.

by forum surfer

Said hybrid is a shoe horned v8 or at LEAST a v6 with a roots blower. Neither one would clear the hood though. Even I have hood clearance problems with all the intercooler/supercharger plumbing, and my car was engineered to fit the motor that's in it.

by robo_dev

The 'SportsCar Revolution' TV show ran this test a few years ago.

A Honda Odyssey minivan (loaded with some giggling strippers the TV crew met at the bar) versus a Dodge Charger Daytona on an autocross course. The Odyssey handled a LOT better, but of course the Charger would smoke it in a straight line.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nAx2jtr3K8

by robo_dev

...somehow the dealer forgot to install mine, however.

It's part of the 'Honda Global Satellite Navigation System Voice Response Unit' (HGSNSVRU)

(aka the 'giggling stripper option')

You can speak the destination request "Heather, do you know how to get to the turnpike"

The HGSNSVRU will reply "Hee hee, like you just would TURN to get to the Turnpike, silly".

The only issue with the HGSNSVRUs is that they need to be replaced frequently as they do not age well.

by jamesrl

One of the top gear hosts was testing a Jaguar diesel, and ran it for timed laps round the Nurburgring. He enlisted the aid of one of the top Nurburgring experts, a young woman, who coached him on how to get the most out of the lap - shes run timed laps there thousands of times.

One of her comments as a shot at the host was that she thought the car could do it even if the driver wasn't up to it. She said she could beat the 10 minute mark that they failed ot break in a Van.

So next season, they took her up on the challenge and had her do the run in a Van. She came very close (even passing motorcycles) but even with a rabbit driver ahead of her she couldn't make it in an English Ford commerical van, but it was so close.

I will watch the video at home.....

James

by jdclyde

If you need to carry a load, no mileage for you.

If you need to climb steep grades, no mileage for you.

That HAD to have been horrible on her trans, as it had no business even attempting such a trip.

I used to have a Mazda GLC. Nice little car that got GREAT mileage, but was HORRIBLE if I got into hilly conditions. Oh, the trip up to the Traverse City area was a major punishment, both to me and the poor car.

Regular highway travel though, over twenty years later and it was still one of the best cars I have ever owned. Did I mention it had been "totaled"? Three times? B-) The last time when my GF got it T-boned was all she wrote. :(

by danlm

It has the 3.5 in it that I also had in my Malibu. The Malibu being light, was better on gas and had the balls to merge with no problem.

When the impala gets rolling, it doesn't want to stop. But trying to get it to that stage requires a longer run like hell time.

I like it, comfortable for trips. Will get up and go if you kick it in the a$$. In that I lease, I have no issue with that. But, my Malibu was defiantly a quicker car with the same engine.

Dan

by jamesrl

http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/acceleration_and_torque.php

All electric car, and 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. Apparently its is based on a Lotus chassis.

If you want a hybrid instead I suggest the Lexus GS 450 h. Given that electric motors have lots of low end torque, it should be pretty fast for a luxury car.

James

by forum surfer

I followed the development of that one closely. It's truely an amazing piece of engineering. It loses in the price per horsepower/performance factor...but still an engineering marvel. I like it because torque from an electrical motor is instantaneous, hence the great acceleration times.

Another good one is this company:

http://www.smartuki.com/

Smart car + Suzuki Hayabusa drivetrain.

"Smartuki," you gotta love that name!

by jamesrl

But thats the only one I'd buy. It has to be the most utilitarian vehicle out there - not fun to drive at all. The Toyota Yaris costs less and seats 4 and is a lot more fun to drive. The Smart gets better mileage but its not that much of a delta.

I always wanted to try one of those Volvo 240 kits where you drop a Chevy 350 engine in - apparently not that difficult to do. But there aren't many Volvo 240s left in great shape.

James

by jdclyde

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Cars-Trucks___W0QQMake247a0eZVolvo4effeacQQModel4710b09Z240c22eQQ_catZ31877QQ_pcatsZ6454Q2c6001Q2c6000

If you head to places like Arizona, you can find older cars, usually pretty cheaply.

Because of the environment there, the motors blow up long before the bodies rust out, and if you're looking to drop a new motor in anyways, that is the ideal place to look.

course looking at putting it on a train flatbed to ship it back would be in order if it didn't run. B-)

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