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IIS5 Answering on Multple NICs

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Machine: Win2KServer, SP3, with all recent patches, running on IBM Netfinity 5000.

IIS is installed and running (only FTP and WWW installed and configured). FTP is fine. WWW is the problem

The server has 2 NICs in it, both with different IP addresses (for the sake of argument, let’s say NIC#1 is 10.0.0.1 and NIC#2 is 10.0.0.2).
IIS WWW is “bound” to 10.0.0.1, port 80 only. For a screen snapshot of this window, go here:
http://www.horrorseek.com/horror/leeringclown/techrepublic/iis1.gif
(please remove any spaces)
(Yes, agan that is not the correct internal IP address; I am using a valid 10.x.x.x address)
The Advanced button reveals the same info. Go here for another screen snapshot:
http://www.horrorseek.com/horror/leeringclown/techrepublic/iis2.gif
(again, remove any spaces)

The problem is that IIS is answering all WWW requests on port 80 for BOTH IP addresses, not just the single one it is configured to use. I have verified this by using SamSpade and NetBrute, 2 tools that can expose the web server packet info. Both tools give me this info back from both IP addresses:

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0
Content-Location: http://10.254.253.230/Default.htm
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 21:39:10 GMT
Content-Type: text/html

As you can see, IIS answered. Now, I need to have IIS stop answering on the 2nd NIC (10.0.0.2) for port 80, so I can install Lotus Domino and have IT answer on NIC2 port 80. But, we are not there yet.

Also, when you use a web browser to go to http://10.0.0.1 you get the default home page on my web site, as I would expect. On http://10.0.0.2 you get a message reading “No web site is configured at this address.”

I have gone into the Properties for the IIS server itself, and Edited the Master Properties. You cannot set the IP address there. I thought you could, but guess not.

Topic

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So, any ideas? I have tried Technet article Q281760, which is about this problem with SMTP and editing the metabase. Well, it didn’t work for WWW. Look up the article and you will see what I tried.

Personally, I think that the answer just might be somewhere else in the metabase, but I don’t know its structure to find it. I have MetaEdit2.2, so if the key is found, I can edit it in a snap.
I also have backups of it, in case I screw something up!

Oh, one clarification in the NetBrute output above. First, I forgot to replace my true internal IP with the “for example” IP posted in the rest of this question (oops!) so that is why it is different. Second, when you connect to the first NIC, its proper IP address is displayed in the resultant output; when you connect to the 2nd NIC, also its (the 2nd NIC’s ) IP address is displayed. So, the right NICs are responding with their own proper IP address.
I just wanted to clear that up.

Network connectivity on both NICs is up and working, so that is not an issue. Both cards are fine.

This is something I should get resolved by the end of next week, so there is some time to try a few things. But so far, this server is very clean. I put the OS on it just 2 months ago, and it hasbasically been sitting around waiting for the web site to be done. It is now, so time to get this all working right.

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Point value changed by question poster.

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Maybe I am just tired, but I can’t see the fix for this one.

How about an assist from the community?

Thanks
Joe

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One more thing I forgot:
The Technet article I quoted does mention Event ID 115. I do have that error for WWW, basically word for word. I thought that would give more credence to using the metadata fix it suggested.
AFter trying the metadata fix,I still get the error.
Dang!

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It sounds to me like what’s happening is that IIS is only listening on one address, but it’s using both to answer. IIRC, web requests are “stateless”, meaning that the connection made to the web site is not permanent, so IIS is free to answer each of the many little requests required to load a web page via whatever path is available.

For each request, IIS learns (or is told) what IP address to send the response to. But, I don’t think it is restricted to using only one.

I’m not up to snuff on the detials for Win2K, but there maybe a way to force it to reply over the Ip address the request came from. I suspect, though that the way things are right now would not prevent Domino from working, assuming it can be configured to listen toa single IP address. In deed, thee may be a small performance gain from the simple load balancing that would be happening.

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DR — Unless I mis-read the original post, there is no conflict to resolve. Browsing to one IP address displays the web page, the other does not. The original concern is that responses from the web server are coming from both IP address (i.e., there’s one door in, but two doors out). In and of itself, I don’t think this is a problem. Setting up Domino to listen on the current ‘deaf’ address should work just fine.

I don’t believe that changing IP addresses & port numbers will change that behavior.

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Bud, thanks for the suggestion, but this isn’t it.
I realize my question may not be clear (I really don’t feel like fixing this problem, but it’s my job, so… I guess I gotta!). I read through the question and yes, what in the heck was I talking about!!!
Anyway, I need IIS to only listen on the 1st IP, port 80, and I will set up Domino to listen to the 2nd IP, port 80.
Both web servers are gonna be working in tandem for the same web site (IIS is the main web engine; some frames in the IIS web site will be supplied by Domino web content).
But, IIS keeps answering on port 80 on both IP addresses. IF that happens when Domino tries to start up, then Domino will NOT start. I know that. If Domino cannot get exclusive access to its web port on its IP address, then its HTTP engine will not start up.
So, that is the problem. IIS is listening on both IP addresses, and I need it to stop.

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ok.well, two nics both used as external connectors. humm…try using virtual servers for the web sites just as one would host multiple domain names on a single computer with host headers. It allows you to host multiple sites with only one IP. ALSO, you can change port numbers where [example: external connector(WAN) IP 192.168.2.40 port 80 is default web site, external connector (WAN)IP 192.168.2.40 port 4430 is Corporate Web site with a pointer to IP internal (LAN) 192.168.16.30 LAN web server.For more information on IIS 5.0 setup the help files see Microsoft Internet Information Server 5.0 http://support.microsoft.com for Web & FTP how tos on Technet.

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Note on Technet: I recognize that you went to technet to no avail. My training manual (Microsoft Internet Information Server 5.0 training, chapter 5, Configuring the WWW Service basically outlined what I said above. ISA Server also basically says the same thing. Configuring one NIC as external and one nic internal resolves IP address conflicts and using different port numbers resolves site conflicts [Home directories for each site are different Inetpub folders [re X:\Inetpub\wwwroot, X:\Inetpub\wwwroot1 , X:\Inetpub\wwwroot2,.

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DR, thanks for the suggestion. I though of setting up a virtual server, but I don’t see why I would need to! I can’t see why, after setting the IIS web site to listen only on 1 IP address, why it would actually listen on BOTH IP addresses.
I will see what kind of answers get posted in the day, but I just might have to do the VS thing in a worse case scenario.

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Actually, port numbers are the actual communication connector. You may have two NIC’s but if both listen on port 80, [default http ]both will respond. There is something about your problem I remember from Internet Security and Acceleration Server training. I’ll try to find it and post it, but it does have to do with port assignment conflicts.[conflicts are not quite the word for it but for lack of a better term conflicts].

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humm, To restate your question, you have two web sites working in tandem with each other to supply Web content. Both are using different external connectors [ two different NIC cards] two different IP addresses but use the same port number. When someone enters the URL for the main site, both web sites respond to the main URL query. You problem is that you have to have only the main site answer the the main URL query and have the second site supply additional content, if & when needed. A redirect? to the second site? via a pointer?. OR subdomain from the root domain?

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Ok…try changing the port number just to see. Change the one you don’t want to answer to port 4330 and leave the one you want to answer at port 80.Then run a test. That’s step 1. If that works [the second site now does not respond to the query] Step 2 would be to configure a trigger on the main site to the second site [a redirect].

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I have question, why two NICS as external connectors? Do you have two FQDN you wish to keep seperate? [if not just use subdomains]or do you want to bounce back and forth between the two?

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DR, again thanks for your thoughts.
Yes, both NICs are going to have static IPs assigned to them. The first NIC will have the main static IP. The other NIC will have the 2nd static IP assigned to it. I want IIS to answer ONLY on NIC1 IP address, and then Domino to answer only on NIC2 IP address.
The main web site will have a frame in it, that calls the FQDN that is registered to the 2nd static IP.
But as of now, IIS is answering on both IP addresses, and I can’t get it to stop! I really thought that specifying the IP address in the properties of the web site would do that, but I was incorrect. 🙁
This was tested somewhat on another machine, using IIS having 2 different web sites on 2 different IP addresses, with web site 1 being on port 80, and web site 2 on port 81. And yes, that worked just fine.
The problem is, keeping Domino on port 81 will cause a problem when a customer has outbound packet filtering enabled. If the customer does NOT allow outbound port 81 requests, then they are not able to get the 2nd web server content. We tested this and found this out by accident.
I thought I could get IIS to only answer on the first IP address, and then we would get Domino to answer on only the 2nd, but that is not the case.
Gotta STOP IIS from listening on the 2nd IP, port 80.
Any other ideas?

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This may help you a little bit….

You are confusing the word bound thinking that if the site is configured to one IP/Adapter that the OS will respond from the same adapter.

It really does not care…. It will choose any adpater that it can go out on.

Now it is even more confused becasue both adapters are on the same subnet. It does not see a difference.

This is actually a real problem that for those of us who do server farms with alot of different sites run into.

So how do youget it corrected.

First you take out the 2nd nic, so there is only 1 nic.

Second, create a master IP for the nic. Since you are using the 10. lets say 10.0.0.1 is the IP for the nic.

Next, bind more IP’s to the nic. Let’s say 10.0.0.10,11,12,13 etc

Now in IIS, You can assign your sites address’ without host headers a different IP for each site.

Very important, each site must have a different IP if you are not using host headers. The second you assign 2 sites the same IP, they Must use host headers.

Your not crazy, this is by design.

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You’re kidding, right???
I really don’t want to bind both IPs to the same NIC.

Man………
:::the sounds of a disgusted IT tech can be heard:::

Ok, I’ll try that Wednesday afternoon, and let you know, but what you suggest does feel right. Ihave ran IIS on a machine with multiple IPs bound to a single NIC, and I was able to get IIS to only answer on 1 of the IPs with web site X, while web site Y only answered on a different IP.
I can’t believe IIS is gonna monopolize the connections, since I have muliple NICs!
Not what I wanted to hear, but if it will work, then such is life!

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Will DR and Lordinfidel both please post a Hi message to this, something that I will keep open when I assign the points? I think between the two of you, I have the correct direction to travel.
I just can’t try it until Wednesday evening.
Cross your fingers!

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Well…I think Lordinfidel has an answer for you but that seems like virtual server on IIS for multiple domain name sites using one IP address and having host header names for query redirection to the apporpriate server. But you want an interaction between each site [re your sites working in tandem with each other one supplying content to another and vice versa]. I’m not sure that is possible with IIS in the manner in which you want it to. You can use redirects or mirrors or threads between thetwo or you might want to think about a custom program.

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I’m gonna send you to someone I know in Canada who does Web sites and is pretty good at it. His email is michaelnferguson@hotmail.com. He does the SEALZ Gaming Community web site [which I’m a member of the SEALZ] and also has others he might be ableto put you in contact with. You can check out our web site at http://www.dasmerg.net and can contact him there also. Tell him SEALZ M recommended that you get in contact with him. SEALZ Broken is also a webmaster [I think he does the official Ghostrecon/Ubisoft web site] and there is SEALZ Nontoxic who works magic with networks. Our guys are alway willing to help out and if your a gamer, join us!

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After rereading everything, you mentioned that outbound packet filtering will interrupt a user from obtaining data on the second site that is using port 81. Is your network using ISA server as your firewall? Incoming queries via URL [the domain namemask for IP address and port #] won’t be effected. If your ISA is configured to block outbound packets on port 81 you can configure it to accept outbound packets. You can use almost any port # you wish with a IP address [qualify that, you have over 1000 generally recognized port numbers from which to choose from. some of those port number you don’t want to use as they are recognized as generally used for services such as FTP sites, smtp, pop, etc. but nonetheless port numbers are available]. I’m not sure what/why outbound packet filtering on port 81 configured properly would cause a problem. Your trigger on the main site to the second site via masked URL (second NIC IP address and port # )should work just fine.

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See the comment on your last post.

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Just reposting per request…..

And no i’m not kidding…..

There is nothing wrong though binding multiple IP’s to the same nic. This is a common practice when configuring software that can take multiple IP’s like IIS.

The Big issue here is really in the routing table.

You see you have 2 nics, but only 1 of them can have the default route to the rest of the net.

So when your OS has to make a routing decision it will look at the routing table and see that the default route out ison Nic1 and use it.

And since both nics are on the same subnet compounds it even more.

Now if you had them both on different subnets it would not make a difference because again, only 1 would have a default route to the net

If you open up acommand promt and type in route print you will see an entry like this.

0.0.0.0 mask 0.0.0.0 gwy (gwy ip) interface

You will only see 1 entry though like this.

(I will post more in a comment)

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Now let’s say you have 2 nics. 1 on the 10.0.1.0/24 subnet and the other on 10.0.2.0/24 subnet.

You will have alot of entries but if nic 1 was on the 10.0.1.0 netwk and it was configured first, it would have the default route out to the net.
Let’s say your gateway was 1.1 and your ip was 1.2
(same for nic 2, 2.1 2.2)

It would look like:
0.0.0.0 mask 0.0.0.0 10.0.1.1 int 10.0.1.2
10.0.1.0 mask 255.255.255.0 gwy 10.0.1.2 int 10.0.1.2
10.0.2.0 mask 255.255.255.0 gwy 10.0.2.2 int 10.0.2.2

So now if a request came thru from let’s say, 10.0.3.13 the OS would reply on nic1.

But if a request came from 10.0.2.54, the OS would reply on NIC2. Because the routing table tells the OS that any requests to the .2/24 netwk goes out on nic2.

I hope this makes sense to you.

So yes you can have 2 nics, but if they are both on the same subnet it is really pointless. Traffic should not be a consideration because most higher end nics, even the lower end nics, can handle alot of traffic. But if that is a concern go with a 3com xl etherlink server nic.

You could try adding another default route out, but you may not get the desired effect.

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Hopefully you see this comment….

I never did ask this question, Why in the world would you ever run 2 different web apps on the same server? (IIS and Domino)….

My opinion, Pick One or get another server to run the other app.

IIS *WILL*assume that it can use ALL address’ available to the machine. That is just the way it is.

In fact, if you have a NT4 machine and install WIndows media services, you can not have IIS installed at all! (This was corrected in NT5)

I would REALLLY think that there is going to be some sort of weird conflict going on with 2 web servers trying to answer. Even if you have them bound to different IP’s.

If you want to talk more about this off-line then contact me thru the TR contact peer listing thing.

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Joe,

I read your comment from the other day about contacting Domino.

I am going to put this another way.

*_It is Not standard practice putting 2 web apps on the same machine. I would strongly argue against it. There is just too much that can go wrong…*

Next, no matter What you do, you will not be able to escape the routing table. There is no way to get around the limitation of the default route out.

You can have 20 nics in a system, and one of them needs to have the default route. Just to double check this I asked my counterpart (more of a guru then I) and he concurs.

Even with winsock2 you will get really freaky results with having 2 default routes out. Even if they are on different subnets.

I can’t keep harping on the fact that you have 2 different issues here.
1- Having 2 web services apps on the same machine.
2- Having only 1 default route to the net.

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Additional information that was mailed to joseph off-line:

I thought about your scenario this morning. Basically it was a parallel thought about what I said about windows media server and IIS4. IIS4 and windows media server can not reside on the same box. Because wms acts as a web app binding to port 80. But this was corrected in NT5. They can both exist on the same box.

I remembered that this had to do with socket pooling.

I searched around MS knowledgebase for how to disable socket pooling. This may work. I believe that this is how they got the 2 to coexist. But again, I may be just high.

In any event, you still only need 1 adapter and bind multiple IP’s to it. We are a pretty decent size shop and have allot of sites running. It would be insane for us to think of installing a separate nic for every site. This comes from web hosting companies who host hundreds of sites on the same machine.

Anyways, read below and give it a try.

Symptoms
When you start Internet Information Services (IIS) 5.0, IIS appears to bind to all Internet Protocol (IP) addresses on a server, not just the IP addresses that are assigned to Web sites. In addition, when you run another service that uses port 80 on an unused IP address, IIS may return an error.

Cause
To enhance performance, IIS 5.0 uses “socket pooling”, in which IIS binds to all IP addresses when it starts.

Workaround
To work around this behavior, disable socket pooling in IIS as follows:
At a command prompt, switch to the “C:\InetPub\AdminScripts” folder.

Type the following command:
CSCRIPT ADSUTIL.VBS SET W3SVC/DisableSocketPooling TRUE

More Information
For additional information, click the article number below to view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
Q238131 How to Disable Socket Pooling

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Socket Pooling!!!!
That was the answer.
I ran the VB script as per the Technet article, and it WORKS!!!!
IT’S ALIVE! ALIVE!!!!!!

Thank you, LordInfidel.

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You can define what nic or IP that IIS uses by going to the IIS control panel and select the domain you wish to work on by right clicking then selecting properties. One of the tabs within this box should give you the option to change which IP or nicthe computer will respond to via http: If you need further assistance please contact me directly at support@meganetcomputers.com and I will be happy to assist you.

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Thanks for the suggestion, but this was where I started. Even when you specify a specific IP address for IIS to use, it ALSO continues to respond to HTTP requests on the 2nd IP. It dishes out a generic “there is no web page configured on this IP” page.

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Ok, no good news to report. I put both IPs on the same NIC (after disabling the 2nd NIC), and then restarted everything.
IIS continued to answer HTTP GET requests on both IP addresses!
I spoke to a co-worker who had ran into this a couple of yearsago! This co-worker told me that this is just how IIS works. Even when all websites (virtual servers, technically) are set up to point to different IP addresses, if you have an address NOT assigned to anything, IIS will STILL answer HTTP GET requests on this IP.
Basically, IIS works on ALL IP addresses on a single machine, no matter what you try!
So, I am gonna try and install Lotus Domino Thursday, and get Domino to only answer HTTP GET requests on the 2nd IP, port 80. We have done that before (we have a single Win2K server running 2 instances of Domino; each instance is a separate public web site with different IP addresses and no host headers).
The thought is that:
1) stop all IIS services
2) get Domino HTTP server to work on 2ndIP address, port 80
3) then, IIS will NOT be able to grab this 2nd IP address port 80, but it WILL be able to get the 1st IP address port 80.
At which time, I will have the setup I need to get working for this single web site!
I know, both IIS and Domino feeding the same web site. What are we thinking???
Even I don’t know; it wasn’t my idea!

Wish me luck!

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I would like to know the outcome of your web site creation and the trials and tribulations of it. This is an interesting problem. Hope you keep us posted.

IIS5 Answering on Multple NICs

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One more comment: have you tried to change the master property sheet [preconfigure properties for virtual servers]for IIS? So far all that was discussed was default “web site” property sheets.

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Interesting that you got your two engine web site to work with one engine on port 80 and the other on port 81 both suppling data. Again, please keep us posted on your project.

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If you get this to work, you should do a paper on two web engines suppling data to one web site and how you got it going.

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ok final comment on this: according to the “Windows 2000 network design” book written by Kim Simmorns, Jarret W. Buse, and Todd b. Halpin, [and this is about proxy server 2.0] Chapter 8 page 151 ExamCram for exam 70-221 by Coriolis, …Although users don’t normally enter the port number nor even realize that it is needed, the port number is supposed to follow the internet server name or IP address [http://www.xxx.com:[“port #]. If a user does not enter a port number in the URL,then the client will default to a port number that is usually used by the protocal in the URL. [re http is default port 80, ftp is default port 21].

Therefore, if one wants a site to not answer on a default port number, then one must include the appropriate port number in the URL. I’m not sure if and how you can setup a URL where what a user types in http://www.XXX.com will trigger a port different than default port 80 [default protocol port] without having to manually add in the correct port # you actually are using unless you set up or change the http protocol properties to answer on a different default port than port 80. If you can do that, than IIS would stop answering on port 80.

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Thanks & Cool. I’ll zip the comments and watch. Glad you’ll keep us informed as to how this works.

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DR, I am going to close this question now, since I have the answer (please see the comments above. I am rejecting this answer for you, since I want to give you 5000 points for helping out on this. I am gonna open a new question for you only, with a subject of “POINTS FOR DR THE CORPORATE GROUPS”. Please reply to that question, and I will give you those points. Thanks for helping out on this.
Joe

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Is Routing and Remote Access installed (RRAS) This could present some problems if configured improperly. Make sure your outbound settings are correct.

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Nope, no RRAS on this box. IIS and, now at least, Domino 5.0.8

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Ok, an update. Lotus Domino 5.0.8 is on the box now. To make things easy, we set up the Domino HTTP Server to work on port 81, and in doing that, our 2-engine web site is working flawlessly!
Yep. IIS on port 80 is dishing out its web pages, and theframes supplied by the Domino web content are also working, with that data coming on port 81.
Now, we have (2 years ago) been able to get Domino to only answer on 1 IP address on a multi-homed server, so we can do that again! Tomorrow (hopefully) we will get this to work. The idea:
Get Domino HTTP server to ONLY answer on the 2nd IP, port 80. In doing this, IIS is completely DISABLED.
Once Domino is up, we will then start IIS. IIS will find the 1st IP address port 80 open, and will answer onthat one; but IIS will find the 2nd IP address port 80 already taken by Domino.
It is our hope that in trying things like this that when IIS comes up and finds that the 2nd IP address is already taken, that it will not crash Domino!
IF in doing this, IIS works on 1st IP port 80, and Domino works on 2nd IP port 80, then we will have the config we are looking for!
Friday will be an interesting day!

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Update for Friday:
Well, there is no update! We are trying to contact a Domino consultant, to get Domino to only listen on the 2nd IP port 80.
So, onto the next week.

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Couple of comments. First, no work done today, since it is Columbus Day.
Next for DR – Yes, I know about specifying the port address in the HTTP address line. Currently, with Domino running on this server, it is set to answer HTTP requests on port 81, and IIS handles port 80. So, yes, you can go to http://10.0.0.1:81 and you get the Domino default home page; go to http://10.1.1.1:80 gives you the home page of my web site presented by IIS.
The whole port 80-81 issue is really NOT the issue. Itwas a fast way to get IIS and Domino both answering HTTP requests, so we could test if even running IIS and Domino on the same machine would be possible! It does work this way, but there are problems. I cannot leave Domino on port 81, due to firewall ruleset restrictions. (I had a test user who could not connect outbound to port 81, so they could not see any Domino-delivered content.).
This is why 1 NICs and 2 IP addresses, so IIS can have 1 IP at port 80, and Domino the other IP at port 80. No firewall problems, and all HTTP traffic running out on the standard port.
LordInfidel – I know, trying to run IIS and Domino on the same machine was NOT my idea!!! I am just the guy stuck with this configuration who has to get it running! If it were up to me, Domino would be on 2 machines. Now, we do have Domino configured to also support IIS (there is a setting in the Domino server document that states that IIS is also running on the server). I am just waiting for my Domino consultant to come to the office and set up Domino to only run on the 2nd IP address. This CAN be done; we have a single server in house with 2 NICs, 2 IP addresses, and 2 running installs of Domino, each Domino serving up a separate web site.
So, we will set up Domino like this, to only work on the 2nd IP, and then it is my HOPE that IIS will then only be able to work on the 1st IP address port 80!

IIS5 Answering on Multple NICs

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This is gonna take a few days to resolve itself.
I will keep this up-to-date on developments.

IIS5 Answering on Multple NICs

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IIS5 Answering on Multple NICs

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Stupid Socket Polling!
That was the answer.
All hail LordInfidel, who found the solution.
Yes, the writeup on Technet article Q238131 did solve my problem. The VB script quoted on the article did make the necessary changes to IIS so that IIS would only work on the IP address you have it configured to work with. Please see LordInfidel’s post on this Technet article for the text.
Ok. So now, IIS is only running on the 1st IP address. I will (hopefully) get my Domino consultant in the office in the next day or two to set up Domino to only work on the 2nd IP address.
In doing that, both web engines will be working in tandem, on their own port 80, on their own IP address, on the same server, delivering a unified web site.
I am going to close this question later tonight.
Thank you to all who helped out.
Joe Moore

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