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  • #2192673

    I’m DONE with the IT field!


    by austin316 ·

    I regret that fact that I spent 4 years studying my *** off to enter a career that is stressful, demands never-ending BORING study, and calls for ever-increasing sacrifices of personal time in return for a job that offers average pay and doubtful prospects for long-term employment!

    This is the only field where 20 years of experienced is used AGAINST you. It seems to have a good career in IT, you have to kill yourself with IT 24/7…and you’re still booted out when you’re 35 or 40. I know I’m not the only who feels this and I’ve decided to plan an exit strategy to leave the field because I’ve had enough.

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    • #3091598

      Good for you!

      by jkameleon ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I’m in the field for 25 years. I’ve never studied for it. Got in there from manufacturing during the IT boom & labour shortage phase, and got stuck. I’m lingering in here only because job prospects in manufacturing are even worse, and I have no better idea.

      I’ve been through many bust cycles, and I’ve seen many of my collegaues leaving this field. None of them ever came back. One of them now works as a dog food salesmen, for example, refusing all IT job offers. Things like this make me wonder like what the hell am I still doing here, but then again… pension is not that far away, I’m still making a reasonable ammount of money, so- why bother?

      • #3253285

        Now there’s a job

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to Good for you!

        you can sink your teeth into.

        • #3252660

          Been in technology for 27 years

          by dave.schutz ·

          In reply to Now there’s a job

          I’ve worked in IT for 7 years and electronics for 20 years before IT and I guess I’m lucky to still be here and am happy with it. You have to have the aptitude to work in IT, so you can take the good with the bad.

        • #3252386

          35 years in IT

          by mr ‘t’ ·

          In reply to Been in technology for 27 years

          I have spent 35 years in IT, the last 20 at the same company – one of the top 100 places to work for. The job is never boring, pay is adequate, benefits are tops.

        • #3253484

          Another 35 years’ experience.

          by jeff.allen ·

          In reply to 35 years in IT

          I have been in this company for 14 years, but 21 years with a previous company that was merged with my present company: 35 years total.
          I have thought the same: What’s next? When will I be considered too old/burnt out etc? I am 54 years old and one of my bosses told me only yesterday “You are too valuable to get rid of”, when I was discussing taking a package. Comforting indeed!
          I have been down the “I am no good any more, lifes not worth living” path quite a few times, so I have “been there done that”. It was during one of these lows, that I was asked to complete some hardware training on a new box my company is selling. When I found it runs Solaris and that after many years absence from the Solaris arena, I hadn’t forgotten a thing, I thought “This job is not bad after all!”.
          The secret? Variety! Don’t get stuck doing the same thing. Work in an area where there HAS to be variety in what you do. I work in our nation’s capital, which only has 350,000 people. I am part of a team of 6 hardware guys, looking after everything my company sells. Desktops to mainframes and everything in between. There’s always something new coming along, there’s always plenty of scope for training and advancement in both hardware and software. I am currently trying a new venture which is showing a consustent 25% plus saving in Customer Service costs, – nationwide.
          When folks ask me how I can stay in one job for 35 years, I say that it hasn’t been the same job. The company has stayed the same (so I have all the benefits of long service etc) but the job itself changes every few years.
          How does this help you? If you like the “IT” field, make sure you are doing what you WANT to do. If you feel variety will help, try and get into a company that covers different aspects of our industry, even if it means a low-start job with a big company. If you are any good, you will climb the ladder to be in a better position you would have been in, by staying with the single focus company, and you will have gained the benefits of knowing your company, being loyal (remember that word?) and the benefits of long service.
          It is only my opinion, but I feel some folks try and find that magic perfect job, from day one. And move from company to company, trying to find it. It’s better to get into a job that has the potential to be that perfect job, and build it up.
          Worked for me!

        • #3132564

          Never a Dull Moment in over 30 years

          by thomgordon ·

          In reply to Another 35 years’ experience.

          I remember being bored as a young computer technician (when punched cards ruled!). I couldn’t imagine spending my life just fixing hardware. 4 years and an Engineering degree later, I slid my way back into the IT job market. Within a year I was using computers and software to do amazing things. I have done it all. Permanent, Contracting, Software, Database, Networks, Graphics, Database, etc., etc…

          It has been the mental challenge of finding new ways of doing old things faster-better-cheaper that has kept me going. The same challenge that made Air Traffic Control look boring to me a few years ago (I am not kidding!). I like fast-pace, fully-filled 8 to 12 hours days to keep the blood flowing.

          I dread days where I am not busy. They drag and seem painfully long. I thrive on discovery and novelty. If you can’t keep up to the rapidly evolving pace of IT, perhaps you would be better off cleaning tables at McDonalds (a noble profession, none the less). Mundane careers can’t compare to the profound stimulation of nurturing computers to help mankind move past individual accomplishments to achieve things on a grander scale.

          Imagine, if you will, that we can perform feats on a global platform, move mountains, fly to the moon. Believe it or not, computers and technology make these possible and even easier. If you can’t see yourself helping others achieve amazing things, perhaps you should settle for second best.

          It can be frustrating to have obsolete skills or even the wrong skills for the job of your dreams but the world is alive with too much to accomplish and too few to get it done. So hit the street and don’t look back. Believe it or not you can always learn new tricks, no matter how old you are. All you need is the desire to try and the willingness to ‘get on with it’.

          Live long and Prosper

        • #3101737

          Well said !!

          by josh.dwyer ·

          In reply to Never a Dull Moment in over 30 years

          I agree with you whole-heartedly my good man. I have not been in the business not more than 10 years and I has been that best ten years.

          In November 2005, I resigned my job as a systems administrator because I found more pleasure in providing not only network and server solutions for individuals but for businesses as a whole.

          Too many times I’ve seen CEOs and Presidents implement duct tape solution for their company that handle $Billions. I’ve found my passion in the IT business. When I stop I will teach.

        • #2965450

          Use some makeup and attract…

          by vishnoo.rath ·

          In reply to Never a Dull Moment in over 30 years

          No offense to women here, but just as they use makeup to seem more attactive, we IT “GUYS” too need to use our own makeup, so that we are more noticable. One of the few ways of doing that is to pick-up on an area that interests you and start a blog on the topic. You need not be working on it at your job, but as a hobby nevertheless.

          If you have passion for that technology or subject you blog on, sooner or later you will start getting noticed. Of course all this won’t happen overnite, but then its like an investment. Needs anywhere between 6 – 18 months.

          If you are real good at it, you might even get offers from companies. One example was – they were so good MS finally – after much threats & arm twsiting – brought the company and hire the two founders.

          Bottom Line – Do you want a JOB in IT or do you want a CAREER in IT?

        • #3102093

          Another 30 year Veteran

          by oknightowl ·

          In reply to Another 35 years’ experience.

          Well I can relate to BOTH of you in a sense. I’ve been in Electronics since ’74, dealing with stuff you never dreamed was possible at the time. I’ve had some Long Term (8-10years) employment stints, the time was because of corporate aquisitions, and a conflict with military service in the 90’s, and the lets play with the health care ideas of the Clinton Years. I believe I have been Proactive by learning as much as possible, Certifications were not thought up at the time, and getting a degree was my dream and I finally got it. My problem is, when I go for interviews – managers either look at my past accomplishments with disbelief, and with concerns for their own employment future. OR that the solutions I came up with worked for that time and scenerio, but violated every concept that they envisioned yet made the mission or project a success, and it conflicted with their ideas of what they would or should do.

          I’ve worked Mainframe arena with everything that connects to the channel, learned PC’s & Software the hard way – Trial & Error, worked some projects and accomplished what should not have been able to do, stepped up to the plate when there was a need for someone to fill in the gap, and now it all seems to haught me.

          I’ve been labled “Too Rigid”, told that “the Position will not challenge you enough”, You don’t have the proper credentials, etc. Give me a break, I know I can complement and enhance the IT efforts of any company. Now I also find that in order to be considered for a position you have to have the MCP, MOUS, MCSE, MCSA, CCNE, CCNA, A+ Turbo, and all the other Alphabet Soup stuff PLUS they want you to have a Masters Degree in CIS for a job that pays only $17.00 per hour. Some agencies are getting rich off of the talent and experience of those they place. I still love my work, and enjoy the challenges that it offers, but soon I believe that I need to settle down and find something with some longevity. The only thing I want is, fair compensation for what I do, recognitioun for what I accomplish, and the ablility to contribute where I can. People or Friends that I have helped along the way to get their initial starts in IT are not too helpful or willing to recipricate, or they are so concerned for their own welfare, hence I struggle with doing what is right and continue to help them or just look out for myself, and let them sink or swim by their own merits. Just so I can sleep at night I think I’ll continue to do what is right!

        • #3106329

          There is no perfect job

          by dogmeister ·

          In reply to Another 35 years’ experience.

          I’ve worked for big companies and startups. I’ve also worked as a freelance consultant and as an in-house consultant.

          In the end what matters is: Are you still learning new tricks? Can you put aside your mistaken belief that you understand it all, and that you’ve achived some sort of technical nirvanah? – The reality is that technology is an addiction, and some days it makes you sick and tired.

          Variety is important, but whats more important is how you apply what you know. If you can apply it for the greater good – of the world, or maybe just the greater good of your company – and you can feel good about it when you go home. Great!

          You only live once – and technology is a career that will keep you on your toes.

          I spent the better part of a year out of work, partly because of the economy and party due to my former career being outsourced to another country.

          All I can say is we need to stay on our toes and never stop learning. If youre tired of learning, try retail.

        • #3253419

          6 years in IT

          by wmwphl ·

          In reply to 35 years in IT

          6 Years in IT had two kids never been bored in my Job. Being in IT related work is not a job its a LifeStyle.

        • #3091350

          13 Years in IT

          by thomasgedle ·

          In reply to 6 years in IT

          I have been in IT for 13 years, was making good money but had no life. At the end of the day, no savings neither. I accidently invensted in realstate just last year in August, and I can’t tell you the rest except to say I am retiring at the age of 39. I am so mad at myself for wasting the best years of my life doing nothing but learning the latest and the greatest in IT, as if all that BS mattered.

        • #3252052

          Starting out…willing to continue

          by win_nee82 ·

          In reply to 13 Years in IT

          I studied IT… plus business. Not particularly interested in programming. I’m planning to stay on at least for a few years… like the job aspect where you have to learn new things almost everyday with so many new technologies around. Makes me feel up to date.

        • #3252710

          21 Years in IT

          by rcermak ·

          In reply to 35 years in IT

          I have 21 years in IT and the last 12 at the same company. I’ve seem some of the complete opposite when it comes to hiring or firing older IT workers, sometimes good, sometimes bad.

          The one thing that I have seen in firing older IT workers and hiring younger IT workers is that most of the young “Wiper Snappers” that come up the ranks have absolutely NO work Ethics or Loyalty and they always seem to have the “what?s in it for me” attitude. Most seem to be more concerned about where they are going to “party” with friends on Friday night and what version of BMW they are going to buy, then to meeting a dead-line to save a multi-million dollar contract. Yes, they do know what they are doing and can do things very quickly when they want, but as an Employer can you reply on someone like this to keep your business.

          I call them the “NOW” generation. They have been working with computers since they where 5 years old and know some things like the back of their hands, but they want everything NOW when it comes to IT jobs and things. They want the BIG salary that you and I took 10-20 years to get, NOW. They want their parent?s $250-500,000 fully furnished Home with all the latest and greatest high-tech toys, NOW. They want the coolest Car with the latest and greatest High-tech, DVD, CD, Play Station 2 Sound system, NOW. America, I guess we as parents have taught them well, Number One Rule: Me, Myself, and I.

        • #3132618

          true…but not for us all.

          by liquidxit2 ·

          In reply to 21 Years in IT

          I gues Im characterized in that “NOW” generation you speak of. Being a spawn of the 80’s(83 to be exact) and now at 22 I do wish I had a nicer salary and all those things you mentioned. But not all of us have that middle to upperclass mentality. In fact some of us are full time students living in tiny apartments driving POS cars without the dvd or ps2 in the car. Some of us do have good work ethics, for instance I wake up at 5:45am to get to work and when Im done I head straight to the university for school. So dont be too quick to judge as some of us got through the “NOW” generation cracks :).

          To contribute to the thread I am semi new to the IT field (about 2 years) and I have to say I am quite burned out. I guess anyone would if their job consisted of cleaning mouses, cleaning viruses off computers (even after telling people not to surf on lunch breaks), and scanning documents. But I understand I need to pay my dues.

        • #3103213

          I agree…

          by lds_sailor ·

          In reply to true…but not for us all.

          I agree… I am considered in the “now” generation. I am 22 and the network administrator of a good sized financial firm. Im also a full time student and husband. and if that didnt take enough i live in a small 550 sq foot apt with over 10 year old cars. Who doenst want to make more money or have a nice car or be able to get a fancy present for their spouse just because. I see my wife about 30 minutes a day between work and school and study. I think those of us in the “now” generation deserve more respect than we are given most times. I am having to go into thousands of dollars in debt to advance my pay an position. I can only hope that it will pay off and the sacrifice of time from my wife will be worth it in the end.

        • #3101344

          absolutely right

          by bluron ·

          In reply to 21 Years in IT

          i think you have identified one of the major problems with the youth of today. every thing must be NOW. thanks for stateing this so clearly. i am sure there will be plenty of negative responses to your statements, but like the saying goes, “the truth hurts”

        • #2582593

          I would have to disagree

          by tburns ·

          In reply to absolutely right

          Thought I was the only 22 year old here till I was reading through this thread. As there maybe some who have that NOW attitude, as you can clearly see there are some that dont as well. I myself have worked my butt off to get where im at. Worked tons of volunteer hours where I now currently work and the ONLY reason I got the job was because of the free labor I provided as well as showing a good working attitude. As for loyalty, no one can pin that on any generation. It all depends on if you enjoy where you work. You could be cleaning toilets, but if you enjoy the people you work with, being happy is worth alot more then money. But, I dont care what age you are, if you had the chance to make 10k-15k more at a different place, dont tell me you wouldnt take it. We all want to better ourselves.

        • #3102692

          Times, they are a changin’

          by joshuajleighton ·

          In reply to 21 Years in IT

          In case you all haven’t noticed, things have changed. I’m sure that everything that has been said here can be said of any other industry as well (speculation). As long as you haven’t been replaced by one of us “whipper snappers”, don’t complain. And if you have, then maybe you weren’t keeping up. IT is an ever-changing and evolving industry, and it favors those that keep up-to-date and can roll with the changes. Who better to be the successors than a generation that has lived and breathed technology their whole lives? Now, are there a lot of kids running around with paper certs and fabricated resumes? Sure. However, to say that we do not have work ethic is a very broad generalization. I will agree with you on the issue of NOW. By admission, I am one of these. I am very driven, very motivated, and I know what my knowledge and experience are worth. Time’s are changing. Ten years ago, it was a huge thing for the average adult to have a cell phone, now kids are going to elementary school with them. I don’t think that there is anything wrong with, nor should we be discouraged from being young and successful, as long as it is earned. I’m 21, am a network admin for a nationwide company of 400 employees, am making good money, have a brand new home, am able to support my wife and 3 year old son, and I earned every inch of it. No disrespect, but get used to it.

        • #3088616

          I have a hard time beliving you

          by soeffner ·

          In reply to Times, they are a changin’

          I have a hard time believing that you are THE network admin for this nationwide company because you are young and you would not even been able to have finsied you BS degree yet also you said another key word and that was the 3 year old son there is no way you could have erned every inch of it on your own and raised your son as well. plus if the truth be known your mom and dad put you through school and bought you all of the technology that has brought you to this point in time. so go on thinking you have done it on your own you will have a rough time of it when that kid turns 18.

        • #3088289


          by liquidxit2 ·

          In reply to Times, they are a changin’

          Some of us graduated college at 17. I didnt turn 18 til after my first semester of college. So its somewhat concivable that someone could finish college at the age of 21. But then again obtaining a BS in 4 years is not the norm now but is still possible. So dont be too quick to call someone out. But then again I do agree with the parents paying his way. The only way the get through school in 4 years is to focus solely on schooling and notworking a day. and to support a son you cant do that by taking credits in school.

          But then again he could have not attended college, it is somewhat common for non college grads to have experience and certs and get a decent job.

        • #2490317

          It’s been done and not uncommon

          by visionbender ·

          In reply to Times, they are a changin’

          The idea of paying for school, having a spouse and child, and working is not unheard of. I finished my BS degree married with my first child. I paid for school (student loans and income) on my own. My wife was a student too, and our newborn came a couple of months before graduation.

          Not everyone has the silver spoon. I have been in the IT field for 11 years. I earned a cert, I am now in a Masters program (Mgt of IT), and plan on additional certs. You have to flexible and adaptable. Sink or swim.

        • #3102561


          by tmansops ·

          In reply to 21 Years in IT

          Every generation says that. When I was your age; blah blah blah. I’m 40, and have been in IT for 18 years. Times have changed, and it’s not just the younger crowd. The reason someone 22 can walk in with a CCNA/MCSE/ET-AL and get a job, is because the employers want that. Employers also want immediate gratification and results, so they want their employees to have it too. IT used to be fun, but now it’s “just a job”. The bubble has burst, and there’s nothing “special” about IT anymore. Some of the reasons are what you mentioned.

        • #3150104


          by oknightowl ·

          In reply to Please…

          IT is still fun – where else can you get to play with the latest toys (except the Military – but thats different)?

          I’ve seen folks with the CCNA/MCSE/ET-AL Certs that are extremely good at what they do and I envy their accomplishments (I’ve been in IT for 30 years and chose to get a degree instead). I’ve also seen many more folks with those same Certs that could not find a Computer/Server Room if guided there personally and with a GPS, they got their “Knowledge” from a Boot Camp. Employers seem to make the Certs thing some sort of a Bragging point for their weekly board-room get togethers. At some point though, the realization has got to set in – Do you want those folks who “can (maybe) do the Job” or Those who HAVE done it and continue to do it everyday (with or without certs)!

        • #3090316

          I could not agree more

          by mike ·

          In reply to 21 Years in IT

          I have 13 years invested, and it is disgusting to see a kid with 3 years just get a $75k salary from a fat corporation. He barely knows enough to wipe his nose when it runs. The last 8 I have run my own consulting firm and the crap I have seen has definitely soured me on the job and people in general.

          In IT, you live and hopefulyl love the life style, and you pay your dues, because ultimately, you don’t know JACK for the first 5 or 6 years!

        • #3090237

          Re: I could not agree more

          by bad boys drive audi ·

          In reply to I could not agree more

          Oh, come on Mike – stop hatin’! When I see that, I just work harder to achieve my salary goals. My situation is the opposite from you though…

          In my current environment, I see people who have been in the same few amount of years I have, and yet the make the same salary. I’d be fine with that except that I run circles around them. So now, I have to figure out a way to make my employer (who already sees it) compensate me for it. I also see several individuals who have been in a lot longer than I, but couldn’t adequate architect a system to have their lives. And yet, they pull down a larger salary than I do. My philosophy is “If they can do it [achieve a bigger salary], why can’t I”?

          I know my hard work and dedication will pay off in the end. But if it is to go my way, I have to make it go my way – not sit back and grumble about it.

        • #3090205

          What do you drive?

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to I could not agree more

          You strike me as a good guy, “Bad Boys Drive Audis”.

        • #3132799

          one of the few lucky

          by gstarr1 ·

          In reply to 35 years in IT

          you are one of the few lucky ones if you have adequate pay still and good benefits. Over the past 3 years I’ve taken 4 pay cuts and forget benefits.

        • #3102041

          13 plus years

          by skicomputer ·

          In reply to 35 years in IT

          I have been doing this job for over 13 years and I remeber when exper. paid but not now a days. Now if you can remember answers to a test and get a MSCE you can find a job but the pay still as not as good as it used to be. Now you have to know Novell,Microsoft,Unix,Hp,AIX and get paid like we used to in the days for just knowing microsoft.

        • #3103188

          Good Ol Days

          by oknightowl ·

          In reply to 13 plus years

          And how many of those with Certs in Novell, Microsoft, Unix, Hp, AIX, A+ can actually do the work. Mention MSDos and they Panic. I completed my Associates in CIS in 2 years (BTW I Worked Full Time, Have a Family & Grandkids), because 1. It fit my Lifestyle 2. I wanted the degree I had put off for far too long. I had instructors that I knew MORE than THey Did about the subject matter they were teaching – cause I was there when it all started. I remember when if you worked for Big Blue in Field Service, you simply carried a toolkit for a guy much older than you – learning your trade by watching, and then it was on a single product. Oh the Good Ol’ Days!

          How many of the NOW can think “Outside of the Box”? How many of the NOW Generation can respond to a NEW Question and then come up with a solution other than “It hasn’t been done before, so it cann’t be done now”. How about responding to a client at 0′ dark 30 for what is a silly request, because its your job? OR Loose your T-1 Link for Mission Critical Communications & Information and come up with a solution that works and complete the Mission – On TIME?

          Employers want the Cert for some reason, and not “Proven” success! Drives me wild when those that should know don’t, and scares managers when you bring experience & successes to the table.

          IT is a wonderful field – you get out of it exactly what you are willing to put into it. Money is not everything (I will admit that it Helps though), but too many young people get into it for the “big Bucks” and now its full.

          Good Luck – If your looking for someone to constantly pat you on the Back and Tell you Your doing a Good Job – Get up Early, Wipe the condensation off the mirror, and do it yourself, cause rarely will it be done otherwise.

        • #3271755

          Good New Days

          by victor ·

          In reply to Good Ol Days

          Ok, what I can tell from my experience: same thing is happening everywhere. I am from Romania and jumped from programming into setting up my own business 5 years ago (btw, although I managed to build a great company lately, I still have regrets from not being in the field I loved …). I personally assist to every interview. There are no new comers into the industry like there used to be. I mean, for instance, they really screw up the whole interview, give wrong answers to virtually every single question and they have absolutely zero problems to be fierce negotiator when it comes to talking about their expectations. I sometimes wonder if they didnt mixed up things at university and instead computer science they were taught all about sales…

        • #3150398

          I like doing what I do! :)

          by dmckay2003 ·

          In reply to 35 years in IT

          I have been in the industry going on 21 years and have never regretted it. I have been through slowdowns and the dot com crashes (which by the way, I warned several people this would happen) I have always been paid very decently and had good benefits. I believe you have to have a extremely strong sense of customer service and awareness to make a decent living and keep a good reputation in this industry. Besides, fellow engineers don’t you agree it’s really nice to get to play with all the newest gadgets A AD get paid for it????

        • #2608320

          Been in technology for Umpteen years and pushing 20(+)

          by elmccullough ·

          In reply to Been in technology for 27 years

          I’ve been in technology for Umpteen years and pushing 20(+)….
          Can you tell I lost count???!!?? I got discouraged once during the IT bust that affected Colorado. But, I am back after a brief still of Health care, and quite frankly I love this field; so much that I am working on two certification tracks for my MCSA and MCSE. It can be a little stressful and sometime managers, and consulting / contracting firms want to pay you dirt and work you like a slave…..PIMPS!!!!! But all in all, it is an awesome industry…find your specialty, and hang in there. Ask anybody out side of your immediate circle how they feel about IT???? Some will tell you flat-out what value we bring.

        • #2608029

          How Those Outside Feel About IT

          by thegooch1 ·

          In reply to Been in technology for Umpteen years and pushing 20(+)

          “Some will tell you flat-out what value we bring.” The point of the thread is not the value we bring, but the value we get( beyond professional satisfaction in acheivements ), we are talking salary and benefits here. Perks. Then we compare that with what we are asked to do, and how we are treated.

          Where I work, IT is seen as this black hole where money goes in and nothing comes out. Therefore, budgets get slashed haphazardly, and then other departments wonder why things start breaking, maintenance contracts expire, etc. Then they wonder why we weren’t doing our job ( because we had to cut something, idiot accountant! ).

          Anyway, Health Care is the most rapidly expanding industry in the US. I recommend getting into it ( even if its your second time ), except for the health insurance branch. Its being justifiably pummeled right now, and who knows how things will end up.

        • #3252391


          by keyguy13 ·

          In reply to Now there’s a job

          That’s not funny…

        • #3254645


          by chipotle1 ·

          In reply to HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

          I think you don’t have the aptitude to be in this field. I have been doing this for the last 20 years and still enjoy it. Is never boring and everyday is different. Pay is good so are the benefits. You can try change jobs and sit behind a desk for eight hours for the next year and you will look forward to go back to your IT job.

        • #3252763

          I’d Like to Ask You About Miami Area

          by bad boys drive audi ·

          In reply to Aptitude

          I’m a software developer living in Anchorage, AK, but I’m interested in moving to a more, shall we say, tropical environment in the next year or two. I’d like to bounce a few questions off of you about the Miami area. Please feel free to contact me through the private message link.

          Thanks in advance.

        • #3253466

          Coming up for twenty years

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Now there’s a job

          and I still love it.

          IT not dog food.

      • #3080618


        by svanallen ·

        In reply to Good for you!

        What’s a pension? I thought that was a myth from days of yore…

        After 5 years with the same company, I’m now being shot down by prospective employers for being at the same job too long – whereas when I was job hunting for my present position 5 years ago I was being shot down for “job hopping”

        This is a field where it seems sincce the dot com bust you can’t win for losing…

        • #3080607

          5 yrs in a job is too long – Negotiating Ploy

          by questor1 ·

          In reply to Pension?

          When employers say 5 yrs in a job is too long, this is a negotiating ploy or they are trying to send you a hidden message…

          If I read between the lines, thew prospective employers you describe are probably saying your wage requirement is too high for what they want to pay.

          I have heard this BS many times from contracting companies that are looking to hire bodies to fill hiring slots, not qualified individuals.

          The companies’ interviewers/screeners you describe are here today and gone tomorrow because they do not stand up for the prospective employee, only for the max bucks the sales rep can generate.

        • #3252349

          Are benefits a thing of the past?

          by dm935 ·

          In reply to 5 yrs in a job is too long – Negotiating Ploy

          If five years is too long to remain in a job how are you supposed to accrue any benefits?

          I don’t know anyone outside of management that can come in and get an instant three weeks of vacation. For everyone else, it’s back on the hamster wheel from day one where you must accumulate your time off EVERY YEAR.

          It’s unfair and just the way the companies want it.

        • #3091322


          by kenm ·

          In reply to Are benefits a thing of the past?

          If you join the government and stay for 5 years you qualify for a small pension when you turn 62 (under FERS). If those last 5 years were before you retire then you also qualify for lower health care coverage in your *golden years*. A new hire in the government accumulates 5 weeks leave the first year, then 7 weeks (annual and sick) leave after that. Government work is not for everyone, though.

        • #3090812

          Let’s Unionize!

          by dm935 ·

          In reply to Benefits

          Thanks Kenm,

          Well…that’s certainly much better than the norm! However, as a young man I once worked for the US Postal Service as a Mail Carrier and I can tell you if that experience translates accurately as govt work experience, I’ll have to pass.

          I’m very concerned about everyone’s eagerness to point fingers at the people who are not continuously updating their skills and I must ask, what other career places such a demand on its workforce? Experience in IT is a liability in most cases; try getting away with that in other professions! I speak for the unjustly labeled sloth’s out there who thought it would be enough to simply do their job well (like the rest of the world). I’m tired of hearing how lazy we are for not taking night classes and online courses for the rest of our lives. In the end, you can’t compete with the fresh graduates just out of school who grew up on all of the *new* stuff. Things look so promising for them but 10 years down the line they’ll be in the same situation as us sloth’s, fighting for jobs with 22 year olds at the same pay scale! Now given that the population of IT is so bright, how can we be so foolish? We need a union! It really hurts seeing much dumber people doing far better for themselves than IT as a whole. For example, the NYC Mass Transit Union (MTA). When was the last time any of you got free health care, hmmm?

          To the SUPERSTARS out there who absorb new technologies like a sponge to water – none of this applies to you. You people go have a ball!!!

        • #3090760

          Trade Union vs Labor Union

          by techrep ·

          In reply to Let’s Unionize!

          It is natural for skilled trades people to organise together to control quality and pricing and pronounce judgement on each other (like doctors and lawyers). But Labor unions are something else. I’ll join a union, but only one of those two types.

        • #3252879

          SUPERSTARS: go have a ball!!!

          by jeff.allen ·

          In reply to Let’s Unionize!

          … For a while…. Or, while you can…..
          Experience says HOW you do your job. The more job you do, the more exoerience in HOW you do it, you have.
          What to do in your job is where all the night school/training courses come in.
          Now, if an experienced person, who has done the training and so knows WHAT to do, will always get the job over a grad who just knows the WHAT and not the HOW.
          Unions? Yes, I have been in one for most of my working life. Have I needed them? No. But I do know when it’s head cutting time, the Union members always seem to survive. I feel it’s because given other factors being equal, it costs more to retrench a unionist.

        • #3252863


          by bluron ·

          In reply to Let’s Unionize!

          careful for unions are 2 edged swords. they can be of great help and they can shut a business down in the wink of an eye.

        • #2537625

          Go Union!

          by tarnishedandfeathered ·

          In reply to Let’s Unionize!

          YES, GO UNION! We must take back tech from the corporations.

          Try CWA. YES!

        • #3252540

          5 years of experience or 1 year 5 times?

          by jesc ·

          In reply to Pension?

          Does your resume show that you have gained 5 years of experience with increasing complex duties for increasing value, or does it show you did the same first year tasks for 5 years?

          There are alot of resumes that claim 5 years of experience, but if the person spent the whole time writing simple reports the last 4 years don’t count for much. If you have a real 5 years of experience it is important to make sure your resume shows it.

        • #3252496

          5 Times 1 or 5 years of Growth in Field

          by redbellusa ·

          In reply to 5 years of experience or 1 year 5 times?

          jesc has described well the serious problem that so many of us face in all of our work. If you do the same task for five years, you should be able to do it well but you are somewhat specalized. Five years as a systems administrator who has had to solve everyone’s problems, install new OS’s, upgrade libraries, install new systems and keep the users happy is a whole lot diferent from doing DB or Programming on the same task. As one friend put it so well. ‘ The work ain’t so bad, but wading through the knee deep “C… S…’ to do the work is tiresome.’ When you are sick and tired of your job, of going to the sam old place and you really feel like you are wasting your life and time, it really is time to change. I ended up with a BS in CS, got ‘De-contracted,’ and then went to night school and got an MS in Criminal Justice and now I pick up a bit of change at times doing research and grant writing and life is a lot more fun. Less money but more fun and a better class of your work and people make up for the loss of money. Do not be afraid to change fields, for your experience is useful in almost any other field, and it can be leveraged as a selling point when you simply admit that you were sick and tired of the opld routine and want to change so you can be happy doing someting more satisfying to you and your life. Good Luck and God help you in your attempts to be happy, Cordially, Red Bell

        • #3253635

          5 years on one task ?

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to 5 Times 1 or 5 years of Growth in Field

          In one environment for one business, perhaps, but that can be argued either way. The hard one in any field is when you feel your current skillset and experience won’t map to a new environment.

          That’s bye the bye though, guy’s not enjoying it, time to go, life is way too short for that, even if the money was good.

        • #3252415

          Increasing experience doesn’t always matter…

          by skua ·

          In reply to 5 years of experience or 1 year 5 times?

          I’ve got 8 Years in IT and at least 15 years of computer experience. I put in 3 years in a cube as a programmer/analyst at a company that should have installed a revolving door. Reviews and raises were promised but never materialized… so finally I left.

          I took that experience to a start-up call-center where I was the entire IT department. I’ve spent 5 long years keeping this place running on a zero dollar budget. Programming, websites, networking, server installs, floor support, database admin… you name it.

          I haven’t seen a raise in those 5 years… I told myself it would pay off as I was in on the ground floor with this company. This past November I finally asked for a raise… I got part of it then and more promised in January. Instead of the rest of my raise I got notified that they are going to outsource ALL aspects of IT to save money… at the end of March I’m out of a job.

          Be careful where you put your loyalties. I too find myself considering another field. Unless you’re lucky it seems there are many IT Departments that are just waiting to use you and spit you out when they’re through with you.

        • #3253632

          I was about to burn you up

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Increasing experience doesn’t always matter…

          Increasing experience doesn’t always matter to the Magoos I’M working for.

        • #3253558

          Get Your Piece of the Pie

          by p_piluk ·

          In reply to Increasing experience doesn’t always matter…

          Why don’t you start your own business and try and turn your former employer into a client…

        • #3272938

          8 yrs and loving it

          by steve42399 ·

          In reply to Get Your Piece of the Pie

          IT is a cake walk compare to social work/counseling (10 yrs). Fixing computers is by far easier then fixing people. Social workers are among the lowest paid career and highest stressed.

          I use to work for a large corporate giant for little thanks and average pay. But now I work for myself make good pay, low stress and have plenty of time to spend with my family.

        • #3253557

          Increase in Responsibilities, lack of re-imbursement

          by ntwrkurwrld ·

          In reply to Increasing experience doesn’t always matter…

          Hello all!
          I have been in this industry all of my working career (20 years). I went through a period in time when the wages where good and the industry was lucrative. As of about 4 years ago, everything started to decrease. The level of responsibility rose, and the pay went down with each company I worked for. The level or respect went down, and computer network engineer’s status level went down with the pay. Most companies felt that they can hire a college student for a lot less, and a lot of companies HR departments will use that as leverage when issuing raises/vacations/new hires. A lot of companies outsourced their work, and the contractors didn’t want to pay that well. The upper management at the company that I work for views me as a high level pc technician. Even though we(Computer brainiacs) are the difference between having a successful profitable company through the use of technology, most companies do not view us for the worth that we bring to the table. I have been a systems administrator for a large hospital, I did a IT merger/conversion for a large bank in the U.S (which all of you have heard of.) and even worked for high profile customers (such as an NFL Team). There have been articles written in the business journal for the work that I have done with telephony solutions. I was putting in firewalls, network security, VPN’s before they where a “household” IT term. It all looks good on a resume, but when it all comes down, the pay has still been decreasing as well as the level of respect. I am looking into another field of work because of this. I have stuck a large part of my life into this field to become the best that I can be, and the re-imbursement is not there, as well as the respect.
          I am looking into a field where I can be compensated financially as well as gain a status for the achievements that I do. I look at it this way, If I have been successful in the IT field there is nothing else I can’t be successful in. It sounds like a lot of us “computer people” are going through the same stresses of increase in responsibilities, lack of pay, lack of personal time, etc… This field is not a “punch clock” type field. It has been more recently that the companies that I have worked for, have me report to a project manager that makes more money, spends less time in the office, and dictates which keys I press, and when/where/how I do my work. Even though they are less technical, don’t really know what is going on, they still have the final say in implementation of these projects. When did this job title/re-imbursement get ahead of the network engineer that is responsible for making these projects successful. I don’t know about you guys, but I am going to start looking for something more worthwhile to do with my time on this planet, or atleast get some sort of compensation for the efforts I have put forth into making myself the best that I can be in a field that doesn’t compensate anymore. It is true about the Original Posting. I feel like I have been used for my knowledge, and chewed up and spit out. My job is to make companies successful in implementing technologies that will make them successful. How about helping me become successful through this process? Good Luck to all of us!

        • #3091562

          IT EVOLVING !!!!!!!

          by jsatterlee ·

          In reply to Increasing experience doesn’t always matter…

          Remember when they had 1200bps modems and the soldering iron was a part of the IT administrator’s arsenal. That was only 15 years ago folks. Well in 15 years IT will be completely different that what it is today. BANK ON IT. Automation and advanced software will usher in a new world of plug and play advances that will retire 90% of the IT workforce. Gartner has already stated that the demand for IT specialists is dwindling fast!!
          Work on your exit strategies.

        • #2490335

          Screw Gartner and their stupid negative articles.

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to IT EVOLVING !!!!!!!

          Lately, the only “articles” coming out of that dump called Gartner are negative articles about how IT is supposedly dwindling down and how useless older IT workers are. On the contrary, the IT market is on the rise and jobs are there for people who want to take them. The pay may not be as high as it was back in the booming days on IT in the 90s’, but if you can compromise on pay, then you’ve got a job. Gartner keeps talking out of their anus with every new article they publish, which seems to piss on IT and the old timers who pioneered in this field. Any IT dept manager that gets his/her information from Gartner should have their heads examined by a psychiatrist. Basically, you don’t crap on the profession that keeps you from living in a cardboard box in some back alley and eating out of trash cans.

        • #3101732

          Sell you self back to the company…

          by josh.dwyer ·

          In reply to Increasing experience doesn’t always matter…

          Why don’t you propose to your company that you provide these services indepently.

          Look at it. You are their one-man-IT department. No one knows it like you do. If they outsource, that company or person will have to do a needs analysis so they can gauge their maintainance bill.

          Do the assessment for them. Be the first bid in and be higher than your monthly salary but lower than the implementation cost that anyone else could suggest. Suggest a retention fee in a contract for starters, a year. Then take it from there.

          After you get in, you can now table some projects that you have always want to get done. Good Luck.

        • #3089430

          Outsourcing to other companies – Job Security

          by ntwrkurwrld ·

          In reply to Sell you self back to the company…

          The problem that is ocurring at the company that I work for is this….
          They are making more money now then they ever have. Since they are not paying me much, they can afford to go to the more expensive consultants.
          Now they are starting to outsource all of their projects. They are starting to pull projects away from me, and talking to other consulting firms. Since they have money, they have their local I.T. staff here Making the recommendations, and then they are pulling in outsourcing companies. In essence I am giving them direction, and they pursue it with other companies. If I try to sell myself to them, they will hire someone else to do the direction giving or just use the outsourcing companies. It was different when the money was not here. They have 2 network engineers here, 2 project managers, and a whole staff for programmers for .net, and AS/400 programming. They look at it as either way, they will survive because they have the money. So much for job security.

        • #2490392

          I’m done with being “loyal” to corporations after earlier experiences

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to Increasing experience doesn’t always matter…

          I was the sole senior systems engineer for about 4 years, specializing in Novell Netware and Novell products, for an international lawfirm. For the first few years, I was respected for my knowledge of Novell Netware, NDS, Zen Works, and GroupWise. 2 years after I started, the IT dept undergoes a “restructuring” and some jackass who used to work for AOL (of all places) becomes our new IT director. The guy was pissed off from day one at the fact that we were a Novell shop and weren’t running with the Microsoft bandwagon. Yes, we had our fare share of issues with Novell and compatibility problems with third party software and products, but when new viruses were released to target Exchange and Outlook, we weren’t affected because we ran GroupWise instead. Three years into my employment there, the decision was made to convert everything to Windows 2003 and Exchange 2003, ridding the environment of every Netware and GroupWise server standing. After this decision was announced, I started seeing what amounted to a very carefully planned conspiracy to push me out of the company. I busted my ass decommissioning Netware servers that I spend plenty of time setting up, not complaining or expressing anger at the fact that this new IT director was destroying the system I helped design and build. Nevertheless, the decision was made that my skills will only be needed until the very last Netware server was removed, so the IT director conspired with my managers and one hated coworker (was minding everyone else’s business) to make me look incompetent and write me up for every little thing that just happened to coincidentally go wrong. God forbid a RAM module would suddenly go bad on the server, causing it to crash. I would find myself fixing the problem quickly, but meeting with a representative of HR and my managers for what they claimed was “poor work performance”. Yeah, waking me up at 3:00am to run into the office to swap out bad RAM was considered “poor work performance”….BULLCRAP!. I was loyal to these bastards at first, but when I started seeing the nasty game they were playing with me to push me out, I simply didn’t care anymore and wasn’t springing from my seat to fix anything anymore. They have destroyed my morale and my trust in them, and the problem is not just specific to this one law firm. This happens in almost every large corporation, which is why the only thing I care about and am loyal to now is myself and my family, and nobody else. The company wants my loyalty, yet will not hesitate to kick my ass out the door when they see fit? I don’t think so! I am just as loyal now as they are loyal to me. They can throw me out at will just the same way I can tell them to go f**k themselves and walk out the door at will. I choose to be an independent contractor now because my time is billable and if they want to play games with me (which I’m sure they won’t do to a contractor), I’ll play along, but it will cost them dearly for wasting my time.

        • #2590968


          by thegooch1 ·

          In reply to I’m done with being “loyal” to corporations after earlier experiences

          The same thing happened to me. I started with my current employer wide-eyed and ready to prove myself. I used to stay late every day learning new technologies and solving difficult problems to show that I could cut the mustard. Soon, however, I was getting an unrealistic number of demands with no thought at how I was supposed to find time to do the research, development, and testing of each solution before letting it go live. They acted like solutions go from foggy request to live in days, which isn’t the case.

          These days, I am disillusioned, work the minimum # of hours, and push back on new projects instead of embracing them as before. It is not doing me or my employer any good for me to continue this way, so I am planning my exit strategy daily.

          I don’t think I will become a contractor. I’m so disillusioned that only a complete career change will revitalize my interest in my job, renewing the thrill of overcoming challenging problems.

          I will the above poster, and the original poster the best of luck in their journeys, as I have just begun my own.

        • #3253520

          pension a thing of the past

          by mjordan001 ·

          In reply to Pension?

          even IBM is getting rid of there pension. Im hoping that enough people will get tired of IT.. Quit and there will be more jobs out there for the ones who stuck with it because we love what we do type people.. mostly aliens..

        • #3253403

          Always leave yourself an “Out”.

          by psifiscout ·

          In reply to Pension?

          I have a somewhat unique situtation among my contemporaries. I retired from the US military after 22 years service and have a retirement to fall back on.

          I have been in IT for 8 years. I have three college degrees in IT and several certs, none of which have helped me in the workplace. I work as a mid-level computer analyst for a major corporation, but I am still looking (but not looking real hard) for something better. So far I haven’t found it.

          Basically, my take on the current IT industry is that it has become a venture that promises much but delivers little, in the way of tangible rewards. I stay because I like the work and the money is a secondary issue. I like the people I work with and the work I do, but if the situation were to turn stressfull I would be gone in a minute. I made that clear to the boss when I took the job. That way I have some assurance that they want me here because of the work I do and the service I provide and not because I play politics to keep the job. I have worked my way into a position where the only ones with expertise on the systems I work with is my supervisor and myself. This makes me difficult to replace but not totally indispensible (Anyone can be replaced, but not everyone can be EASILY replaced).

          So, make yourself some options and keep them open no matter where you find yourself. Perhaps one day the IT industry higher ups will find themselves in a position of actually appreciating their techies and learn that if they don’t treat us right, we won’t be there to save their butts.

      • #3252653

        Stress in Any Job

        by bill.greenleaf ·

        In reply to Good for you!

        I have also been in the IT business for 15 + years. I have been in customer service for 30 + years.

        I hear the whining and moaning from just about everyone from just about every class of life.

        No one after the Baby-Boomers have pride and commitment to their jobs. But then again, big companies don’t give a rip about anything other than their big FAT $$$$.

        So, if you can’t be happy, keep on looking and remember to pray before you make any decisions.

        • #3252162

          Don’t Generalize Too Much There

          by your mom 2.0 ·

          In reply to Stress in Any Job

          I don’t think the baby-boomers have a monopoly on committment to doing a job to the best of their ability. In fact, I see as many baby-boomers coasting by as any other generation. The median age of the employees where I work is about 50.

          The ironic thing about it is that it’s the children of baby boomers that are the ones you claim don’t have pride and committment to their jobs.

          So where do you suppose work ethics are developed? Yep, they’re learned from their parents.

      • #3252427


        by mignered ·

        In reply to Good for you!

        First IT people must accept the fact that they are not “professionals” but members of the working class. The need for collective bargaining should be obvious.

        If you are leaving IT analyze fields in which outsourcing is more difficult. Try maintenance type positions such as plumbing, electrician, auto maintenance. My son became an airline mechanic and hauls down close to 50K a year. He knows when he will be home and has a job some guy in India can’t perform from India.

        Myself, I grabed an early buy-out at age 50 and became a librarian. Low stress and information literacy is a growing need. I am sure I can get 10 years out of it.

      • #3101230

        Redheaded Stepchild

        by rhonda l ·

        In reply to Good for you!

        I know exactly how you feel. I have been in IT/IS now for 10 years and entered without formal training as web/graphics designer. First job was great being the company never owned a web and it was for an aerospace defense. To fill in slack times I mentored graphics across the platform and that was great fun. It wasn’t too nice when they carted a PowerMac to my desk though – my peers looked at me for weeks as if I had the plague. Now I am stuck in a job as software engineer scrubbing video and audio and a boss that refuses out of his own insecurities to let me upgrade static web pages to dynamic modern form. Which I was hired in this new position to create webs and action scripted flash productions which I have had one to come across my workflow in 8 months. I have been thinking of chunking all my peripherals into the sea to feed the sharks and setting up a tiki hut on the beach and serving margaritas. Someone who sits and scrubs audio and video all day relentlessly is not a software engineer! I am aggressively seeking new employment.

        • #3101193

          Agressively Seeking – Goes with the Territory

          by thomgordon ·

          In reply to Redheaded Stepchild

          It seems that the IT field seems to spawn discontent! We all would like to be doing something better; achieving something that is more dramatic. Hence the endless search for a better job.

          My biggest problem is working two or more jobs as once. If I am not volunteering to build websites for social organizations, I am freelancing evenings and weekends. I am a technology junkie. Not able to get enough of a fix during an 8 hour day.

          I vacillate between full time employment and consulting. It seems that the full time opportunities just don’t satisfy after a year or two. And don’t get me started on how craft-limiting managers and bosses can be. With on-line job boards abounding, the search for new jobs is without bounds. Sometimes there are too many opportunities. Now if only I could find the Utopia of jobs…

        • #3102654


          by rhonda l ·

          In reply to Agressively Seeking – Goes with the Territory

          I know exactly what you mean and it grows tiresome. I was lured here to a toxic waste environment as far as my career path goes and to keep up my real skills and expertise have resorted to creating webs and flash on the side in addition to day job. When you go on board with a company it is important to be able to leave something behind you have done for them. The barriers here are impossible for me to pursue. This is one of those horror jobs that you only read about – not that you wake up and find yourself in. I am considering starting a live Flash comic series about it. That’s how bad it is.

      • #3101574


        by tvictoriano ·

        In reply to Good for you!

        been to IT since 93, my skills sets in IT hardware and LAN increases still. i can still remember fixing the first ibm pc/xt computer! IT seems the more you mention your skills in your resume. the more, they will have an aversion to your guts and glory. It better nor to say all. they may even think you’re a jACK OF ALL TRADE, MASTER OF NONE! my lateral move is to be in business be your own boss! With the Internet in its peak (boy, IT support is so much easier coz of the net) I’ll use it to my advantage. theare are much options now. If you hate technology. Sometimes it can get boring too. getting stuck at work till 9pm at the office learning again some new linux tricks. when will this thing end? I just make sure I balance my life doing other interest like, spending time with my 2 daughters. reading leadership books, movies. That way it doesnt become boring anymore

        • #3089187


          by codebubba ·

          In reply to Bored!

          I guess I must be weird. I’ve been doing software development since about 1976. First it was on mainframe systems (when in school mostly) then I moved to Mini’s for a little while writing FORTRAN then on into PC’s in the early ’80’s – first writing BASIC & Assembly code then ‘C’ for a good while then finally into Windows and back into BASIC (VB). Now I find myself, at almost 48, the senior developer and SME (subject-matter expert) of an enterprise time & attendance system. I make good money at it and am still enjoying writing code. In a word I’m content with the situation. The company I’m at has sufficient opportunity and resources that I’ll probably be able to retire within the next 15 to 18 years – having enjoyed what I do the whole time.

          Oh sure … there have been occasional frustrations here and there; situations (mostly political) that have aggrivated me but even with all the new “stuff” I find myself continuing to enjoy the problem-solving process in writing code.

          As for the younger set in our office – they always seem to be in a panic, always stressed and always under pressure. They are not a happy bunch. There’s no contentment in what they’re doing – at least most of them. From what I’m observing IT seems to becoming a nightmare – or is it?

          Offhand my guess is that people are getting into it for the wrong reason: money. When I first started out myself in the late 70’s it was just the fascination with the technology that drove me to work until 3 or 4 in the morning. The reason I did that was because it wasn’t, to me, WORK! I was being paid to play! How cool is that, eh?

          I dunno … maybe I’m the exception to the rule. I’ve never had a problem finding work – regardless of how good or bad the market has been. I think the main reason has been that, although important, the money wasn’t my first consideration. Also – I developed the ability to problem-solve without too much dependence on the the environment. I.E. while I prefer certain technologies (I like VB) I was willing to use the tools at hand to do the job.

          Maybe y’all are wanting to leave the IT field; it sounds like some of you have valid reasons. As for myself, though … think I’ll stay with it until I retire. Then I’ll go get some more hours in the cockpit!

          -CB 😉

        • #3085811

          You’re Right

          by dm935 ·

          In reply to Bored

          You’re Right and you’re a mighty lucky guy. It’s inspiring to hear a story like yours! Have fun in the Cessna! 🙂

        • #2580184


          by thegooch1 ·

          In reply to Bored

          Its good that you were able to keep an interest in IT for this long. However, no people are alike ( even twins ). Some wish to leave IT because they had a string of bad experiences( like having 3 employers in a row go bankrupt and lay them off ), lose interest in IT and seek another field, got into IT for the wrong reasons, family issues, etc.

          For me its the losing interest part. Probably since perspective on the world has changed a great deal in the last year. Things that once were exciting are now boring, and vice-versa.

          To those who are content with the field they are in, kudos to you and hopefully you can continue down that path until you are tired with it ( or just retired ) . For the rest of us, decide what it is you really want to do ( following your passion is best ), and plan a graceful exit strategy.

    • #3091578


      by stargazerr ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      To US. This means more opportunities for us who really do love IT. 😀

      I understand that the study and tension can be overwhelming and if you cannot cope with it you most certainly should leave and do something you are more interested in.

      I was cribbing about the never ending study a few days ago.

      But like I said I love IT way too much to leave it for a trifle reason such as too much study and tension.

      Best of luck to you for whatever you might decide to take up.


      • #3252422

        I love IT too

        by bmalt ·

        In reply to Congratulations

        I’m with stargazerr – I love this field. I was a musician \ recording engineer for years and I got into IT when all the recording stuff went to computers.

        IT is really the only day job I’ve ever had that I liked. It can be frustrating, but it can be really fun, too. You have to admit, it’s hard to get bored here. There is always something else to learn, something new to investigate.

        I wouldn’t work any career that I hated for any amount of time, no matter what the money. Life is too short. You have to find a job that you enjoy. If you hate IT, move on!

      • #3253476

        32 Years… And Still Counting

        by blackfalconsoftware9 ·

        In reply to Congratulations

        I have been in the IT field since the dinosaurs roamed the Earth… actually when they had just died off.

        IT is a brutally, tough field to be in even if your environment is a good one. The outside pressures to keep up are not for the faint-of-heart or the non-aggressive personality.

        I love working with new technologies and have been for several years been building a small software business on the side on top of my day-job.

        To survive in this field you have to be ready to sacrifice a lot of your personal time to invest in your career as well as to maintain your employability.

        One good piece of advice I will offer is to stop counting on corporations to create a career with. Most corporations are not what they used to be as the original management have all been replaced by “professional cadres” with very few loyalties, if any at all, to the companies they work for. However, this factor alone does not comprise the many reasons for such changes.

        Today most large corporations are dying because of a deteriorating set of management skills to run them correctly while at the same time an increasingly promoted “greed” syndrome that has over the years literally raped all such companies from the top. Now, most companies are simply to big for their profit-margins to sustain them while at the same time most management (not all) has become to greedy to maintain a sane outlook on how to run a successful business.

        A British business analyst in the late 1990s has already predicted that by the year 2020 most large companies will have, like the dinosaurs, died off. And each year more and more evidence in the business community is corroborating this prediction of a number of years ago.

        If you are good you will find a way to survive and prosper in the IT field. If you don’t have the love of technology and the aggressiveness to find a way to make it work for you as a career field than you are better off leaving the field. But if you are good, the Internet as a business opportunity is still offering those with ideas and avenues to make a decent living.

        Small startups are another avenue for growth and development in this arena and at the same time will get you out of the corporate merry-go-round if that is where you have found yourself.

        And despite the outsourceing in the U.S. there are still more jobs here than abroad in India and China… for the time being.

        If you want to make IT your career than be prepared to adjust. I have been rolling with punches for 32 years and I am not giving up. When I leave… it will be on my own terms not someone else’s.

      • #3132622

        IT is a passion…

        by matt peacock ·

        In reply to Congratulations

        I have been in the IT Industry for nearing on 10 years. I got into it through sheer passion for all things computerised! I worked up from IT support, built two IT departments, in the UK and Canada and life was great.

        Then I thought the same as our original poster at one point and got so down and depressed I decided to leave. I took a year out doing the first job i could get at a decent wage. It was after 6 months of even more depressing work I realised four things:
        1) There is always something worse
        2) There are always bad days in ANY job
        3) Look for the root cause of your unhappiness. usually its not what you think!
        4) Do what you love!

        If you really hate IT, then get something else – but realise that just because you’re in different industry most of the problems are the same.

        Anyway, thats my 2cents.

    • #3253284

      If you don’t like it

      by tony hopkinson ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Don’t do it.
      Good luck in your new profession.

    • #3253166

      Not unusual

      by beads ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      My rule of thumb is that atleast 25% of new IT folks leave within the first 3-5 years.

      Good luck with whatever new endeavor you follow.

      For me. Been doing this for 26+ years. Experience has rarely been used against me. If it has been its been for all the wrong reasons.

      – beads

      • #3080670

        I with you on that!

        by hex20 ·

        In reply to Not unusual

        Started in IT more than 28 years ago.
        More by accident than design.
        Spent the last 10 years as a contract consultant.

        My work experience has never been held against me. In fact the opposite is true.

        Gained more experience in the last ten years, than I ever did “Working for the Man”.

        At twice the pay.

        I love IT, go out and do IT, or get out.

    • #3253053


      by cactus pete ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Can’t say it’s a bad thing that you’re moving along. You obviously don’t like the job enough to put up with its downsides.

      The best advice ever given to me was: Do what you love. Work hard at it. The money will follow.

      • #3252443

        Love your animated icon

        by truthiness ·

        In reply to Bye-bye

        But oh the irony of you using a clip from Office Space and then recommending “do what you love.”
        (What would you do if you had a million dollars?)

        • #3252418


          by cactus pete ·

          In reply to Love your animated icon

          I don’t think it ironic at all! At the end of the movie Peterman is doing a job he enjoys. I think it’s the whole point, and not in the least ironic.

        • #3091508

          Would you still be in IT with a million bucks?

          by sarel ·

          In reply to Irony?

          Now there was a good question . . . I enjoy my job (IT Manager – Medical Industry), but truthfully . . . If I had a few million bucks, I’d do something else . . . If I’d won the Euro Lotto, I would have built a Superbike track and pursue a Superbike privateer carreer . . .

          As someone else here said: You have to enjoy what you’re doing for a living until you find another job you like more . . .

          Just my 2 cents

          P.S. I don’t want to be a dogfood salesman.

        • #3091456

          Great Question

          by pioneering ·

          In reply to Would you still be in IT with a million bucks?

          You’re really asking if IT is you hobby.

          If it is, you can’t get enough of IT (pun intended).

          You do it at work for them then you do it at home for yourself. You would do it even if you hit the $365 million PowerBall because it’s your hobby. I call people like this “True Believers”. And I say if you’re not a True Believer, get out of the computer field. There’s no shame in this, it’s just not for you, that’s all. You tried IT and you didn’t like IT. Good luck with your career change.

        • #3132525


          by truthiness ·

          In reply to Great Question

          I like the “True Believer” (TB) idea, and nothing wrong with being one. But, I’m living proof that you don’t have to be a TB to make a good living in IT. I avoid computers altogether unless there’s money to be made, (after a day in IT, last thing I want is to do anything involving a computer) but I have no trouble finding work, make $33.00/hour, get excellent reviews and raises. I know many other people who are like me. We’re “only in it for the money” yet we do a great job and are considered successful. Sure, we’re not making millions creating the next Google, but that’s a whole ‘nuther realm.

        • #3101408

          nothing wrong with that

          by austin316 ·

          In reply to Disagree

          Don’t let these ubergeeks pull a guilt trip on ya. If you’re good at what you do, and make good money, more power to ya. Doesn’t matter whether you love what you’re doing or not.

        • #3103071

          Don’t Misunderstand

          by pioneering ·

          In reply to Disagree

          I’m not saying you /have to be/ a “True Believer” but it helps. You are what I call a “Mercenary” (MERC)– you’re only in it for the money. You’ll put up withe the BS, not because you love IT but because they PAY YOU ENOUGH to take it for 8 hrs a day. You’re a professional and you always get the job done. I understand. But as an engineer first and a software guy second, I enjoy building stuff. If the BS gets too thick and it stops being fun, I look for a new assignment. Money isn’t everything. BTW, an an /independent/ contractor, you could fetch upwards of $75/hr. However, there’s the attendant risks involved in being a lone wolf but MERCs are cut out for that.

        • #3091341

          yeah, probably

          by brian.kiser ·

          In reply to Would you still be in IT with a million bucks?

          But instead of working for someone else, I’d be working (part-time, of course:) for ME.

          Then I could finally develop all those pet projects I wanted to write but never had time. I’d market them as shareware, live on the beach, and if I never made money, then fine because I’d be rich already. 🙂

        • #3101899


          by cactus pete ·

          In reply to Would you still be in IT with a million bucks?


          I’d work fewer hours and do other things, too. But I would need to work to fulfill my life. Maybe that’s just me. But I love tech junk…

          I might change HOW I work, but not the field in which I work.

          “…if I had a million dollars I could hook that up…”


          “Well you don’t need a million dollars to do nothing, man. Just take a look at my cousin, he’s broke, don’t do shit.”

        • #3139284

          No way in hell

          by navy moose ·

          In reply to Would you still be in IT with a million bucks?

          If I won Powerball, I’d leave notice by postcard and pick up my cameras and passport and follow my true love of photography. I would try to sell photos and see as much of this blue planet as I possibly could.

          I love IT and working with computers. But I would not put up with the BS or politics if I suddenly became financially independent.

          Navy Moose

        • #3138944

          another way to become financially independant

          by techrep ·

          In reply to No way in hell

          stop spending money on the things you have been

        • #2580146


          by thegooch1 ·

          In reply to Would you still be in IT with a million bucks?

          If I had a million dollars, I’d play soccer for the rest of my life. Btw, even when I get old and feeble, I can play the video game version ( e.g. Pro Evolution Soccer )


        • #3132543

          Interesting take

          by truthiness ·

          In reply to Irony?

          Interesting, totally different impression. Any movie or other work of art is open to interpretation, and it reflects well on the work that different people can come away with different interpretations. Thanks for giving me yours.

          I was thinking of the part of the movie where they’re discussing the High-School Counselor question “What would you do if you had a million dollars?” If you were independently wealthy, would you still go to your current job every day? Very few people would, I certainly wouldn’t. That doesn’t mean I should quit my job and go pursue some “dream of doing nothing” as Peterman would say, and it doesn’t mean I should quit trying to do a good job, that just makes me miserable and gets me fired. (In my case, I wouldn’t do nothing, I would travel the world, read, study, get a doctorate, hang-glide, ski, snorkel, ride my bike, practice piano, learn to play tablas, learn to scuba dive, hang on the beach, hike in the Grand Canyon, and a million other things I don’t have enough time for because I wasn’t born rich and I have to work for a living.)

          As far as the ending, I have a hard time seeing it your way. Peterman’s doing crap work cleaning up a burned-down building, working next to his half-wit neighbor, probably making 8 bucks an hour. He achieved a sort of happiness by giving up, by dumbing down! It’s an “ignorance is bliss” solution. Do you really think he’s going to be happy for very long doing lowest-level manual labor? (Of course he’s dating Jennifer Aniston, that makes up for a lot 🙂 )

          My take from the movie was that “work is just work.” It’s what you do to pay the bills. You try to find something that you don’t hate and pays what you need. Seeking joy and fulfillment from a job is a mistake in a first place. NO job could ever be fulfilling enough to make up for not having a life. Quit obsessing and whining about work! Put in your time, earn your paycheck, and enjoy your life the best you can.

          Again, thanks for sharing your impression. I think it’s a great movie. Behind the goofball comedy surface, it’s got a lot to say about our relationship to work. (Besides just being funny as hell for anyone who’s worked in IT.)

        • #3101889

          Just a tweak

          by cactus pete ·

          In reply to Interesting take

          When he was shoveling the burnt out building, he was content. It was a lot better for him than the last job.

          Perhaps it was “…a sort of happiness by giving up, by dumbing down!” But I suppose that’s better than what he had before.

          He seemed to like being outside working physical labor rather than pushing papers, etc. Sometimes dumbing down has its merits.

      • #3252407

        Good Luck

        by hewitt_charles ·

        In reply to Bye-bye

        IT can be a real pain at times, but, I worked in marine electronics for the better part of my work life. Hard core technical work. It never paid well at at for the work that was required. IT is a breeze next to that. It was far more fun than computer crap but bills had to be paid. Don’t ever believe the money will follow. Go with what you like but the bottom line is you still need the green to operate. Good Luck

      • #3252364

        Funny thing……..

        by rkendsley ·

        In reply to Bye-bye

        I use to love working with and on computers…..
        Now, because of my job, the last thing I want to do when I get home is use a computer.

        I rarely even play a computer game anymore, just because it’s on a computer in front of a monitor.

        • #2580142

          Same Here

          by thegooch1 ·

          In reply to Funny thing……..

          It isn’t funny. The last thing I want to do at home is get on my computer. However, in this day and age, its hard to avoid. When I organize my soccer teams, video soccer training clips, pay bills, etc. , its on a computer. However, I do keep this to a minimum, and computer games are a just an old memory.

    • #3254221


      by trek05 ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      You need to get a hobby or something else to clear out your head.

      Just because you’re in the IT field doesn’t mean you have to be a slave to it. Set aside time, and don’t take on too many extra side jobs.

    • #3080699

      Like Any Job

      by dogknees ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Like any job, unless you do it because you enjoy the work you’ll end up in this situation.

      Doing it for the money just isn’t worth it.

      Good luck.

      • #3252538

        I like it 40 hours a week, not 80

        by austin316 ·

        In reply to Like Any Job

        I enjoy doing this work for 40 hours a week, not 80. Some of us have other hobbies other than computers. I don’t care to spend half my free time “keeping up with new technology”, hoping that I selected the right technology to stay marketable.

        • #3253612

          Maybe haven’t found right job yet

          by whomever123 ·

          In reply to I like it 40 hours a week, not 80

          Just from what I can see, it seems like it might not be the field you don’t like, but rather, that you haven’t found the right job yet in that field. I was in that position once too, where I was laid off from a very good job and the only jobs out there were contract jobs, like 6 month contracts, 1 year contracts. It was the same thing, I had to learn fast on my own, just for every interview. Was tough. And every interview I went to, everyone was saying they would call me if the contract came thru. I happened to apply for a job a 9 hour drive away. It was a union job as a programmer/analyst. Never been in a union before. Anyways, the long and short of it is, I was offered the job, took it and moved and never looked back since. I am in an environment, although fast paced a lot of the time, that allows me to “grow” in my career. I get some training, I have some time on the job to learn, so I’m not always cramming at home. And I have a certain amount of job security so I’m not worrying about where the next job is going to be. So what I’m saying is maybe you need to find a more “permanent” and secure type of job, if that sort of thing still exists out there. The field may open up with more of those type of jobs as the baby-boomers retire and you might find yourself suddenly in demand. Anyways, good luck no matter what you decide to do.

        • #3090864

          Yeaaaah..OK…but…Quit Whining

          by armandocanales ·

          In reply to I like it 40 hours a week, not 80

          I don’t want to be particularly harsh here…but…I think a Dr. Phil channeling is appropriate
          How’s that workin’ for yah?
          Only U can prevent Forest Fires….
          Sorry wrong script…Hang on…(sound of papers shuffling)….K’ … it…

          The harsh truth (& the truth will set U free & yeah, sometimes it hurts) is this…

          You made a conscious decision to enter a field that changes vapidly & now you want to complain about how much time it takes to keep up? Gimme a break Dude!

          Welcome to our world…some of us love it..& thrive & survive…

          Once again, I don’t mean to B cruel…but….
          If U caint party w/the big dogs, don’t bother gittin on the porch…listen to the intercom…

          “Doctah Feeahil has left the buildin’, Doctah Feeahil has left the buildin’…”

          Best advice I can give U…..
          Time passes at the same rate for all men….
          There are only so many summers & so many springs….
          No one on their deathbed has ever said
          “U know…I should have spent more time at the office”

          In the words of Earnest:
          Look me in the eye & teeeehhhl me I’m wrong….

          How ‘boot learning the meaning of the word “Balance”…Could be a start?…

          Just tryin tah’ hep’ AC

        • #3252808


          by 2mmomma ·

          In reply to Yeaaaah..OK…but…Quit Whining

          OK, I chose the IT field because I can’t live with a job where I do the same thing every day, all day long. IT is stressful, I’ll give you that, but for all the adrenaline junkies out there (I bartend and ride sportbikes too) it’s a great fit. I started out in the education field, it didn’t fit, so I found this, did I gripe about it? NO! Find something you love to do and go with it, but don’t cry if what you thought you wanted didn’t work out–no one wants to hear it.

        • #2582486

          Big Dogs

          by thegooch1 ·

          In reply to Yeaaaah..OK…but…Quit Whining

          Hmm, I haven’t seen anyone in IT that counts as a “Big Dog”, unless you are talking about their waist.

        • #3090858

          Yeaaaah..OK…but…Quit Whining

          by armandocanales ·

          In reply to I like it 40 hours a week, not 80

          I don’t want to be particularly harsh here…but…I think a Dr. Phil channeling is appropriate
          How’s that workin’ for yah?
          Only U can prevent Forest Fires….
          Sorry wrong script…Hang on…(sound of papers shuffling)….K’ … it…

          The harsh truth (& the truth will set U free & yeah, sometimes it hurts) is this…

          You made a conscious decision to enter a field that changes vapidly & now you want to complain about how much time it takes to keep up? Gimme a break Dude!

          Welcome to our world…some of us love it..& thrive & survive…

          Once again, I don’t mean to B cruel…but….
          If U caint party w/the big dogs, don’t bother gittin on the porch…listen to the intercom…

          “Dr .Phil has left the buildin’, Dr. Phil has left the buildin’…”

          Best advice I can give U…..

          Time passes at the same rate for all men….

          There are only so many summers & so many springs….

          Not one single person on their deathbed has ever said:
          “U know…I should have spent more time at the office”

          In the words of Earnest:
          Look me in the eye & teeeehhhl me I’m wrong….

          How ‘boot learning the meaning of the word “Balance”…Could be a start?…

          Just tryin tah’ hep’ AC

    • #3080693

      you can survive IT, here’s some tips….

      by corinne.krych ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I’ve met an IT contractor with more than 30 years experience. He’s over 60, and still on the market! He’s done a bit of everything and he keeps saying the key to sticking to IT so long, is working normal hours and make good breaks. Obviously, do what you like. If you feeels tired of IT, why not make a move?

      • #3080688

        you’re fully right: Take a break

        by tht ·

        In reply to you can survive IT, here’s some tips….

        I are fully right: Take break, make the responsible prioritise, etc.
        This are the stressfull issues in our jobs – at least I fellt I had to make decisions, which were out of my scope.

        I learned it the hard way: My wife had sclerosis (even though in a mild degree) and my oldest son is autist. I had to change my approach to time management!

        Prior if I got two (or more) tasks of equal, I tried to do both. Todya I ask my superior to decide which ones got highest priority (and he may only chose one at a time – because I’m leaving at 4 o’clock anyway).

        This may not work out for all, but for me it did (then again – it had to :-).

        • #3252632

          Always keep “you” in mind

          by gary.nolan ·

          In reply to you’re fully right: Take a break

          After near 30 years in the IT field and a few different employers the thing that I always try to remember is.
          If you were to die today would someone from the company be crying at you funeral. No. It’s your family that will be there. So always remember no matter how big, important or stressfull your job is your family is number one. You work to support your life not live to work.

        • #2582467

          Sage Advice

          by thegooch1 ·

          In reply to Always keep “you” in mind

          Those are the rules( philosophy ? ) that I also live by.

      • #3080685

        uneven jobstress

        by pivert ·

        In reply to you can survive IT, here’s some tips….

        Ever thought of the people working in factories? slaving on endless production lines? you’re in a field where you work your ass off one day and browse fun-sites the next. You’re helping an end-user one minute, next you’re in the office of the ceo discussing security. yes, it’s demanding but isn’t every job? you get to learn a new trick almost every day. i see why you want to change that for a mindless routinejob or a job where you tell the same story 10 times a day (sales). you can always go into politics 🙂

        • #3080671

          You gotta be kidding….

          by richards_unsubcribe ·

          In reply to uneven jobstress

          Go into politics? You gotta be kidding? Fastest way to the proverbial heart attack from “jobstress”… politics is a blood sport …half the world loves you, and half the world hates you… the pay is lousy, and you halfta go thru a job interview with a gazillion people while on the campaign trail once every 3 years. Been there done that!

          Definately a pass..

          Richard in the Great white North

      • #3080682

        That’s good advice

        by jplace ·

        In reply to you can survive IT, here’s some tips….

        I often think I’m about the only IT worker who has a private life. I have always just done the standard office hours of 9 to 5 Mon to Fri (barring Server problems etc.). I’ve always lived by the saying “Work to live, Don’t live to work”. I’ve never heard of anyone on their death-bed saying “I wish I’d spent more time in the office” life’s too precious. I’d always advise someone to quietly look for alternatives if they are in a job they are unhappy with but I would ALSO caution them to make sure that this is really what the problem is.

      • #3080649

        Top Career Change Tips

        by stoppedtowatch ·

        In reply to you can survive IT, here’s some tips….

        Hi there
        There’s some really great advice in this thread, but most importantly you need to look at what you are good at, where your strengths are and identify the arena where you can use your IT experience in a new way, solving the problems you enjoy.

        One tip is to think about the people who you’ve worked with in the past and think about who you got on the best with, when DID you have fun? Where does this sort of person hang out? If they attract you then you are likely to attract them. Find them and get involved, like this:

        Once you can clearly state what you are looking for you can pick the people you want to work with, identify their problems, match yourself to them and start talking to them, using their language and all the ideas in this thread. Do your groundwork and you will attract the right work, no worries.

        If you’d like to get a kick-start to your career change read my Top Career Change Tips – see here: for a free five day ecourse.

        Bright Blessings


        Bright Blessings


        • #3252757

          Forget to Mention FREE Blog On To A Career Change!

          by stoppedtowatch ·

          In reply to Top Career Change Tips

          You guys should be especially good at this:

          If you are looking for a very effective and EASY way to promote yourself or GROW your business on the Internet – You can – Here are 7 ways that publishing a simple blog, will help YOU change career – as No 1 Career Coach and Techie-enough to be ‘dangerous’ – I guarantee it.

          Download your FREE copy in digital format:

          All the Best

      • #3252675

        Excellent Advice!

        by bizanalyst ·

        In reply to you can survive IT, here’s some tips….

        I also have been debating whether or not to stay in IT, after 20-something years. My job experience is about evenly divided between contracting/consulting or being an employee. My husband pointed out that my hours are much more “normal” as a contractor–because the client doesn’t want to pay extra for OT!

        In general, consulting does not have the drawbacks that I dislike so much: office politics, 20 hours or more of OT a week unpaid, etc. And the pay is generally better.

      • #3252480


        by beads ·

        In reply to you can survive IT, here’s some tips….

        The biggest problem with career breaks, especially for men, is that breaks are conciously and unconciously viewed as being weak. We need to evolve our mentalities a bit and get over it.

        IT can be stressfull enough and few people I know or have meet have been able to stay on the front lines, so to say, throughout thier careers. Breaks are a much needed and most welcome addition to this career field and should be applauded. I couldn’t agree with the 60 year old gentleman’s assesment any more than I do!

        – beads

      • #3254644

        Agree with Corinne

        by pancho_dba ·

        In reply to you can survive IT, here’s some tips….

        I experienced burnout starting at 40 after a great 10-year run. Took a break at 41 to get a grad degree in Humanities. Working in IT again now happily. If you’re not having fun, try something else but don’t burn bridges.

        • #3091296

          Look for a new job

          by todd.j.bartoszkiewicz ·

          In reply to Agree with Corinne

          I worked for a company with crazy expectations and very little training opportunities. I liked the company, but with all the talk of outsourcing and consolidation – at our IT Town Hall meeting, I realized that I needed to find something better.

          I work for a much bigger company now, but you don’t get to touch as much stuff. Take the good with the bad I guess. I do get plenty of training opportunities.

          I realize how important people skills are for everyone. Networking is the best thing you can do and make sure your resume is relaying the right message. I thought I had a good resume, but after reading a great deal of online articles, completely re-wrote it. You are your best salesman. Be confident – but not cocky.

    • #3080690

      So I’m wasting my time

      by steelejedi4 ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      After viewing your bitter testamony about life in the IT field, I feel that I could be wasting both my time and money for such a career.

      I have spent considerable amounts on my training it several sectors of the IT field, at present I am studying CISCO A+ / N+ and hopefully the CCNA. I cannot seem to get a braek in the industry, my qualifications are alright apparently but I lack the experience. So how am I to get the experience if no-one will employ me. So have I wasted all that time effort and money to really gain nothing at all???????

      • #3080664

        To Steelejedi4

        by renem ·

        In reply to So I’m wasting my time

        I’m in IT recruitment & no you won’t walk into a perm job without experience. The key is working those 5hitty jobs nobody wants to do because they are too senior. We take young guys with qualifications and who have done volunteer work -use them at basic rates for 12-18 months on all kinds of short term contracts. Then send them off into the world as well seasoned IT support guys who get pretty decent perm jobs! If you are serious about an IT career don’t be shy about starting at the bottom or doing the odd job without getting paid – it wont last forever…
        Good luck

        • #3080657


          by yinbig ·

          In reply to To Steelejedi4

          So did you work as an IT recruitment odd job person for free at any time??

          Why should he work for free?

        • #3080586

          To Yinbig

          by renem ·

          In reply to Free?

          No he doesn’t have to work for free. To put things in context – I work in South Africa where we have a 25% unemployment rate. If we can manage to get young people onto contracts at a basic salary – the same opportunity must exist in IT markets elsewhere?
          And as a matter of intereste yes I have taken pay-cuts to get into the right kind of job.

        • #3252624

          Don’t listen to recruiters

          by mkeilen ·

          In reply to To Steelejedi4

          Having spent 15 years in IT, in technical and management positions, please believe me when I say this: Do not listen to recruiters. These jackles have ruined the industry. If you are unhappy with the field, you can put the blame squarely on their shoulders.

          When I started working out of college way back in 1991, you actually would talk directly with a person employed by the company you had applied to. Now, it’s all about recruiters sending out thousands of mass e-mails to half the world fishing for information to fill up their databases.

          Having gone into the labor market recently after spending the previous 6 years with the same employer, I am astounded at the lack of professionalism in the IT hiring process.

          Recruiters want one thing: To pimp you out at a rate as high as they can and to give you as little of that back in compensation as possible. They are only interested in selling your services and pleasing their clients – Fortune 500 companies that couldn’t care less about you as an individual.

          Business views IT as a commodity. It has become like electricty and telephone service. What’s worse, if you’re in the U.S. the more of this commodity they can offshore for pennies on the dollar, the better.

          If you want to be in a respected field where you feel like you are truly part of an organization, working to help its ongoing success, get out of IT as soon as you can. It was a great field and a lot of fun 10 years ago. It’s nothing but a sweatshop today.

          It sounds like you are young enough to make that change. I highly recommend you begin planning for a different career. If you have these feelings now, it’s only going to get worse. You will never be successful in a field that you are so down on out of the gate.

        • #3252596

          The worst thing about IT…

          by ladyreader ·

          In reply to Don’t listen to recruiters

          …is that it changes constantly and a professional who wants to stay in this industry has to almost completely retrain every couple of years.
          On the other hand, the best thing about IT is…. that it changes constantly and you get to learn new things every few years.

          So is it good or not? Partially a matter of attitude. My mother is a secretary and while the content of her job varies every day, the tools she needs (once she mastered whatever word-processing software her firm uses) is pretty constant. I used to envy her, knowing that when she went into work, she was confident she could handle all assignments and challenges. I still harbor some of that envy but it is mixed with the delight I have in learning new things.

          I was laid off from my last job in early 2004 (after 25 years in IT) and every ad I saw contained a laundry list of brand-new acronyms standing for must-have tools that I didn’t have and in some cases, had never heard of. I despaired ever working in this field again and figured the American software industry was kaput (as the industry bloomed in India and China).
          I looked into other fields but as a single parent with a mortgage and kids to support there weren’t many things I could do before the money ran out (have you seen what medical insurance costs these days if you’re not on a corporate plan???). Most professional fields just take too long to train for, e.g. medical school takes 6-8 years, I think, law school takes 3 years, a teaching degree takes a few years but the pay is terrible (and the hours are worse than IT when you add in all the lesson preparation and test-grading).
          I found my present job online (no head hunters involved) and lucked into a small IT department where I was given a chance to learn a whole new segment of the industry. I did take a pay cut compared to my last job, but the last job had evaporated so it wasn’t a hard decision.

        • #3252555

          To Kam6593_1 from the recruiter

          by renem ·

          In reply to Don’t listen to recruiters

          Well Kam you seem very bitter too? As a matter of fact this recruiter also worked in the IT industry from support right up to service delivery manager before making a LIFESTYLE choice and pursuing something else where I can make a difference. Because I’ve been there I can council the young people and often older ones too – about decisions relating to their careers.

          Like in any industry you need to be selective who you deal with. If you indiscriminatly approach recruiting companies you will be treated like a slab of meat being auctioned off. Do your research and you will get the quality.

          No industry welcomes work seekers with theoretical knowledge only, that is a cold hard fact. It is how we approach this hurdle which shows our true character and whether the candidate will last in the IT industry – which is being comododised like energy and water supply!

          To the young IT guys reading all this negativity – don’t despair. Do what you set out to do and if it does not suit you it is NOT the end of your life. We grow as people and we must realise that our careers does not neccesarily grow with us. Change is never pleasant but at least as someone with an IT background you should be a bit more prepared for it!

        • #3253561

          Not Bitter

          by mkeilen ·

          In reply to To Kam6593_1 from the recruiter

          As a manager myself, I have a bit of knowledge about what it’s like to deal with the recruiting sharks from a buyer’s perspective. I also have a bit of insight into the mindset of companies that consume contract IT services and/or utilize contract agencies to outsource their HR recruiting duties.

          I KNOW there are exceptions and I have definitely met them. However, I venture to guess that at least 75% of the people working as recruiters, headhunters, or whatever you want to call them are preying on people – often young inexperienced people willing to work long hours for little money to get a chance to “gain experience” – trying to talk them into making bad choices to fill a short term need and turn a quick buck at their expense.

          Recruiters add zero value to the employment transaction for the person providing the labor. Their value is that they enable their clients to become anonymous, faceless consumers of labor turning the supply up or down as needed while trying to convince everyone how great it is to be a “free agent” in the “new economy”. Blah…

          So to the young IT guys (and gals) that think this is negativity, all I can say is this: If you have doubts about your chosen field and find yourself a bit frustrated now, those feelings will probably not subside once you get out in the real world where no one cares about you or where you go after they have consumed your services.

          You should love or at least like your work and ensure it fits your desired lifestyle. If you don’t like working long hours, getting work calls in the middle of the night, and learning new things forever, then you won’t like IT. And if you don’t like IT, you won’t be successful in the field so maybe you should make choices now to ensure your future success.

        • #3253547

          so …..

          by is_oldie ·

          In reply to To Kam6593_1 from the recruiter

          How do you recommend getting over these hurdles ? Even contracting firms, not to mention recruiters, aren’t interested in being part of the solution (getting additional training and experience for people in order to meet the local market needs). Life’s too short to gamble on time, money, and effort mis-spent on gaining knowledge that you can’t get a job using. (Except for self-development, that is.) Not everyone can afford to just ‘try it’. Been given the runaround by too many recruiters. Heard one state in public that they help candidates prepare for resume submission and the interview process. Won’t even reply to my applications for jobs where my qualifications are evident. Enough said.

        • #3253468

          You may be an exception, but

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to To Kam6593_1 from the recruiter

          from my experience IT recuiters are valueless parasites.
          How about the recuiter who put me forward for a job before he asked me
          How about the one who suggested I should take this low paid job because I was overvaluing myself.
          How about the one who told me he was acting in MY best interest.
          How about the one who suggested I add a skill to my cv even though I don’t have it.
          How about getting to an interview to find my cv had been masaged for me giving the completely wrong impression.
          How about the one who sent me for a driving job, without telling me it was driving job even though he knew I could n’t drive
          How about the ones that promised expenses but didn’t pay up
          How about the ones that payed a newbie less than the agreed rate.
          How about a 35% markup

          I can go on an on and on. Haven’t dealt with you so I can’t say. Other than that I can only think of two in my 20 year career who weren’t a shameful blot on the human race.

          Wheat from the chaff questions
          Is javascript the same as java ?
          Why can’t you source a candidate with 10 years experience in C#
          You know Delphi, but do you know any OO ?
          You’ve used versions 1 to 5, oh we needed version 6

          Maybe you’re a bit more professional in your country, you should move to the UK, you’d probably make a fortune actually doing what a recruiter’s meant to do. I can assure you will very little real competition.

        • #3252447

          How you can tell if a recruiter is lying.

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to Don’t listen to recruiters

          Their lips are moving and sound is coming out.

          IT was a lot more fun when it was technology for technology’s sake. IT pure-plays right and left, venture capital to burn. Take 5 certs and you were making middle-class income.

          The current situation of low pay, drudge work and saddling IT with every manager skilled at nothing more than “keeping IT in check” is what drives people out.

        • #3252371

          not looking for way out, just not looking for a way in any more

          by lucifer_sam_siam_cat ·

          In reply to How you can tell if a recruiter is lying.

          i’ve been looking for a way into IT for almost 5 years since i graduated. i’m about fed up with extremely low wages (the secretary in our area makes more than i do). i’ve been working with computers and tech off and on since the late ’70s, (my first attempt at college back then included fortran on punched cards). i got sidetracked when my g/f got pregnant after deciding to stop taking the pill without telling me (yeah, i know, it’s my responsibility too, and i guess i learned the hard way that when it comes to birth control, you can’t trust a female half as far as you can spit a circus tiger–i got blind-sided), and i worked and borrowed my way through college the second time so that i’d have a shot at a decent job to support my son. sometimes i wish i’d taken equine science instead of IT, as the pay is better for mucking stalls and the crap i would have to deal with is cleaner and smells better. i am now trying to get a salaried computer lab tech job at a community college, so that i can get all the free classes i want and retrain for something that might allow me to pay off what i borrowed to get through college for IT. it’s a shame, because i really enjoy the work, but the pay is going to make me homeless if i don’t find something better soon. sallie mae doesn’t care if your job got outsourced before you even had a chance to get it–she still wants her money….

        • #3091244

          That’s how I broke into the field

          by dzanke ·

          In reply to To Steelejedi4

          I had an associate in 1986, it took nearly 2 years for me to break into the field. My first position only paid $12,500 a year and was a pay cut from the work I was doing painting houses. I then went on to successfully jump salary and jobs for the next several years. After doing this for 18 years, I’ve learned that the only real way to get a decent raise is to change jobs.
          It’s more competitive out here than ever. I live in Detroit, and employment is directly or indirectly related to the auto industry, which is in serious trouble, and we have the worst unemployment rate in the country. I’m looking for work again after making the wrong choice in a jump ship/stay where I am position. It’s hard, you have to make sacrifices & hope it pays off.
          The catch 22 never changes. Companies want people w/ the latest technologies but how to you get that experience w/o it? I usually try to implement it on my current job so I can use it on my next, but have not been that successful doing this recently. You always have to think about your marketability, which is only is good as your last accomplishment.

          Good Luck,

      • #3080636

        There is no “try,” only “do”

        by bbuckner ·

        In reply to So I’m wasting my time

        Experience is definately key in landing a full-time spot. I agree completely with the recruiter in this respect. Don’t worry right now about the long-term job security (unless you want to start as a data entry clerk). Instead, go for the contracts. The pay is usually better than a full-time job (unfortunately, no benefits), plus you get the experience. You might even want to independently contract yourself out to home PC users. Get rid of spyware and viruses for them. Set up their home networks. It’s all resume fodder. Best of luck to you.

      • #3080625

        Why don’t you try Government work?

        by gordon ·

        In reply to So I’m wasting my time

        Why don’t you try Government work? I spent YEARS trying to convince people I had good skills, but nobody gave me a chance. I was either over-qualified or not experienced enough.

        As someone else said here, take the jobs no-one else wants. In government, that’s about EVERYTHING that carries responsibility and the possibility of out-of-hours work. Your desire for networking will guarantee that. After a few years, make a change to something you like better – government work does NOT pay well, but it does give you a job history and EXPERIENCE.

        Best of luck


        • #3254640

          Austin, TX guvmit work

          by kenm ·

          In reply to Why don’t you try Government work?

          If you’re out of Austin, TX, suggest you go and apply for an IT job at the Veterans Affairs (VA) Austin Automation Center (AAC). You will work 40 hours a week with some great, friendly people, learn lots, plus you’ll get to leave your office at 4 p.m. and go out and enjoy all the wonderful things Austin, TX has to offer!!! (-:

      • #3252627

        No, you are not waisting your time

        by fernbowers ·

        In reply to So I’m wasting my time

        I have been in the field for 20+ years.
        I had the same problem initially.
        I went into the military for three years.
        when I got out, everyone wanted to hire me.
        I finished my associates at the same time.
        In addition, I had a computer operator certificate.
        Decades later, I work for ATT as a Sr. Technical
        Specialist. I just completed a masters degree
        and will be moving on to the Doctorates.
        So, do not give up!!!! If I had stopped back than,
        I would not be positioned today. The key is not
        to give up. Keep the faith.
        BTW, take jobs (IT) no one wants. Shift work etc.
        As the years go by, you will have paid your dues
        and will move to normal hours.
        Last, if you do military route, make sure your
        job is in it. The Navy is a good way to go.

      • #3252606

        So I’m wasting my time

        by codebubba ·

        In reply to So I’m wasting my time

        From what I’ve been reading lately it does seem like it’s a bit tough these days to “break in” if you haven’t been in the field for awhile. I’ve been at this for about 30 years now myself. The conditions out there are definitely not the same as they were back in the late 70’s where the IT (then called DP) industry was less mature.

        I wouldn’t say you’re wasting your time, no … you’re just having trouble identifying the entry point. What you might want to do is start working at a help desk (yeah, I know … lousy work) … but it seems to me that is the entry point that has the most exposure. Are you trying to become a developer?

        My entry into DP (now IT) was by taking jobs doing anything that got me close to a computer. Data-Entry, you name it. Once planted at that level you then demonstrate your problem solving skills by doing the things you want to do to solve problems.

        For example – we have a guy here in our tech-support department that really wants to be a developer. He has, on his own time, developed an application that keeps track of all the help desk information. He spent about a year working on this and his work sufficiently impressed the tech-support group that it was installed and everybody in that department is using it. The next time we look for a developer he may be an ideal candidate because of his initiative.

        -CB 😉

      • #3252574

        Re – wasting your time

        by andrew martin ·

        In reply to So I’m wasting my time

        For a while there in the 90s certs seemed to be all that mattered. But in reality it what you can show that you know – not what you think that you know that matters in business.

        If you want to get into the IT field first you really have to want to be in it. It is a hard and demanding job, that has its perks, that can take a lot of your personal time if you let it.

        Second you need to get some experience. If no one will employ you – go get your self a consulting gig for a while. Get experience that way. But keep in mind that the only way to really know what you are doing is to do it. After more than 25 years in IT and Telecoms I am still amazed that people get a piece of paper and want my job without having the experience gained from 25 years in the business.

        It just doesn’t happen, oh wait yes it did, and then the boom went bust and we all got back to the business of business.

      • #3252519

        not necessarily

        by austin316 ·

        In reply to So I’m wasting my time

        Switch fields and put your IT skills to work in your new field. You will be ahead of your competitors.

      • #3254680

        Job first training later

        by jharvey ·

        In reply to So I’m wasting my time

        I personally think getting allot of training in before getting a job, is not a good idea.

        Most places sure, will say, ok the guy can read a book and take a test, but does he know what to do when our network goes down and we need our databases to link up to our NY offices within 10 minutes before the end of the day in trading or not.

        Easy answer. NO
        You get more experience in a job, and the job will pay for your training then you get from reading a book, with little or no experience and trying to find a high paying job.

        Start little, grow big

      • #3091519

        Yeah pretty much

        by garion11 ·

        In reply to So I’m wasting my time

        This field is one of the hardest if not THE hardest to break into…;0.

        Good luck being unemployed for the next 10 years and wondering where it all went…

        Reminds me of a Pink Floyd song…”Time” for some reason or may its just the Tequila I’ve drunk today…


      • #3103185

        Not Necessarily So

        by oknightowl ·

        In reply to So I’m wasting my time

        I know the dilema, They want Experience, but you have no Experience, You can’t get Experience cause you can’t get hired. And Around and Around you go. Find someone to network with, keep studying, volunteer some of your time, and network again. Try to get some small projects and do well at them, eventually someone will recognize your talent. Rule One – Love What You Do & Do What you Love! Everything else will follow.

    • #3080689


      by andrew.carr ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I know what you mean. I have been in I.T. for 15 years, and finally think it’s time to change things. These days I am so bored it drives me insane! However, I love teaching it, but that’s giving the benefit of my experience. Also there are some aspects of I.T. that I do like. But pure programming and development is not it!

      So, I think the thing to do if you are fed up, and you have lots of experience is to use that experience but in a different way, to something which interestes YOU!

      I am going to start my own business, part time initially but then develop it, hopefully into something larger. It’s not easy, but I joined the inetstart program

      I wish you the best of luck but I do agree with your comments about employers taking the mick with the enthuiasm of all the young geeks out there (no offence guys!) Long hours, no life, and when they get home they are still talking about it to the wife (probably, about the latest algorithm!).

      So, use what you do enjoy, and dump what you don’t, then perhaps you will get to enjoy the best of both worlds.

      Andy Carr.

      • #3253638


        by kevin ·

        In reply to Yes!

        I have been curious about the InetStart program for a while now. I have tried the contact the owner through email about example sites to see what they have to offer but never got a response to my question. The only response was that there was a copycat site that I pointed him to that was not his so you would think he would have responded better to someone that helped him find a rat. So Andy I would be interested in your experiences with InetStart and where your site is? We currently use for an online site but have difficulties in promoting it and the pricing is not the best.

        Kevin Thornhill

        • #3091487


          by andrew.carr ·

          In reply to InetStart

          Hi my friend.

          You have a very impressive site!

          I have not actually released mine yet, but I am confident that it will do something longer term. I am going to sell I.T. education and training, in addition to computers and software. I am not under the impression it will be an overnight success, no sir!

          I have had excellent support from the inetstart people, and they give you lots of ways and means to promote your site. As you will see from my own site, it is very basic, but I intend to build on this (

          But, if you have had difficulty promoting your site, may I alo suggest you subscribe to a marketing program? I cannot prove any of this works of course, as my own site is not running yet, but I am very impressed with the advice I have been given from inetstart, and also a UK marketing guru, Chris Cardell. Chris does have inside info about internet marketing and you may find this useful.

          Just one thing though, if you do decide to subscribe, please mention me, because I could do with the credit!

          Chris Cardell’s site is :

          Also, as I am only interested in the UK market, I wil not be a competitor, and I would be willing to recipocate links with you.

          Please let me know!

          Currently I am an I.T. contractor, but soon my contract ends and then I intend to work full time on my site until another contract comes up.

          Like our friend in this thread, I am fed up of just pure programming, but I do like teaching it, and I like gadgets, hence the reason why I intend to sell hardware and software!

          Perhaps he should just change his approach to I.T. like I am intending to do. My ideal would be for my own version of I.T. which is in my site, but I am under no illusions, hence the reason I am still up for I.T. contracts until it gets going!

          Best Wishes,

          Andrew Carr (Technologize Ltd).

    • #3080686

      I feel the same

      by denbrown ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I feel that way too Austin, but I think my issue is more with the company I work for rather than the job. I love the job, and like you made the move whilst working in manufacturing. However, the company I am now employed by does not seem to care about the IT side of things until it goes wrong. They want me to “spy” on employees, monitoring email, phone calls etc. It is this more than the job that gets me down. I have been in IT for 15 years now, with minimal formal training. This company isn’t interested in training me up on new systems so I am looking to move to someone who believes in IT and considers training an imporatan part of keeping their staff.

      Look again at the people you work for. Is it the fact that they want you to keep up to date, or is it that you are getting training fatigue?

      Consider moving to another company rather than a job that you can still enjoy.

      Good luck with whatever decision you make.

      • #3080681

        Its not IT is the job

        by jez ·

        In reply to I feel the same

        I’m sorry to hear you arent enjoying IT, and i think that everyone who works in IT knows the situation you are going through.

        BUT, the chances are it is the job. I am an IT contractor and i know that no matter how bad the job is, there is only a few more months of it.

        As for training, I have managed to keep up to date for the last 9 years, but i would say i only do one course / new thing per year. This is the same as an employer should give you.

        I have considered leaving IT many times, but the trick is to move with it. Also look after yourself with normal hours and turning off your phone when you are at home. No-one can demand that you work 24/7.

      • #3080675

        Need something else in your life.

        by sunshine47 ·

        In reply to I feel the same

        Hey buddy,

        Don’t make a hasty decision.
        Think hard about it and find out what really bugs you? Are you taking on too much? Do you play sports? Do you have a family? Find something else to do in your spare time.

        Don’t listen to the guys who are saying “If you cannot hack it”, they are just silicon-heads with absolutely no understanding of human emotions and needs.

        Hang in there. Its not such a bad career.

        • #3252667

          Right on Brotha!!

          by zulhadm ·

          In reply to Need something else in your life.

          I just went through this exact scenario with myself recently. Thought I was done with IT, couldn’t take it anymore, too stressed out etc. But I gave myself a few days off from work and really thought about it. It’s not IT I don’t like, it’s specific to THIS company. I started interviewing elsewhere and I feel like a new person. Put your resume on monster and see how it affects you when you get your first interview.

      • #3080673

        Good advice

        by rosearch ·

        In reply to I feel the same

        Interesting. You could speculate that folk might have leapt to the defence of IT and suggest that there was something wrong with anyone who wanted to leave the industry, or that this discussion thread might have brought out from the woodwork all those with an axe to grind against the industry. Instead – by and large – we have ‘sweet reasoned advice’.

        IT certainly isn’t the monolithic creature of yesteryear, and certainly not the ‘thing’ that a formal education would prepare you to expect. But if the IT graduate is confused when confronted with the ‘boring reality’ no less deluded are many of the companies running IT divisions. Most companies still don’t choose to use their IT resources to expand or drive their business, or even realize that they could. Instead they measure the success of IT in terms of propping up achaic systems. If they see IT as an ‘essential component’ of their business it is in the same sense that they see the electric or water supply services – something we can’t do without, but by crikey we need to keep the cost as low as we can.

        It’s no wonder that in those organisations folks eventually get jaded filling the IT roles. You’re an ‘input cost’ rather than a ‘profit multiplier’ (and get treated accordingly).

        The best advise I’ve seen is “don’t stick around”. I’d add, “pack as many parachutes as you can and move calmly towards the exit door, ready to jump when conditions are optimal FOR YOU”. If I use the ‘jumping out of a plane’ analogy it’s intentional – making a break is ALWAYS traumatic to some degree.

        Find another job, another company, or another career (one of mine became an airline pilot, another a policeman). I’m heading into psychology. I also suggest that if you keep close to your clients (the consumers of IT services) you might just find a job on ‘the other side of the wall’. Cheers and good luck, Tban.

        • #3252508


          by austin316 ·

          In reply to Good advice

          I’m considering getting a psychology degree as it is a field that interests me more than IT. What type of career in the psych field do you expect? What education do you plan to get? The only thing stopping me from getting a psych degree is hearing so much about how the degree is worthless. I wonder how much our IT skills would benefit us in that field.

    • #3080680

      I went the other way

      by julianch ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I started in a non-IT field out of college (you said you studied 4 years…so I assumed…). Prior to this in the 80s I was into the computers at the time in high school but kind of awent down the arts lane at college. After 5 years of working as a teacher I realized I made the wrong choice and retrained for just 1 year at tech to get into the industry at minimum wage. I could have earned the same money doing any menial job but I was never so satisfied. Now 10 year later I’m still just as happy in IT and I know I’ll never leave the field. By the way, the money has come in the end, but even without it I would still be doing this.

      So what am I saying? Follow the path you’re happy with!

    • #3080678

      Good Get Out of IT

      by justino ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      To do IT you must have a passion for it. I suppose you got into IT because of pay prospects etc. Well I sick of dealing with all of these pretenders and Im glad to see some of you leave the industry.

      For me i dont goto work I goto play (most of the time)

      In regards to the booted out at 35-40 what a load of rubbish. If you have the knowledge and are upto date you will always have job. I cant explain to you that problems that have been sitting in a queue for weeks can be solved by somebody with good skills in minutes.

      This is priceless.

      It really is about why do you want to do IT !

      • #3080632

        Easy now…

        by fulnic ·

        In reply to Good Get Out of IT

        It’s the passionate techies with “good skills” but appalling people skills that make the IT industry such a difficult place to work in sometimes.

        The job and the day-to-day tasks that go along with it are a lot easier to deal with when you work with real people that understand how normal humans can struggle under pressure and need support, rewards and recognition.

      • #3252505

        work to live

        by austin316 ·

        In reply to Good Get Out of IT

        What a bunch of BS.
        Some of us would rather work to live rather than live to work. I like IT for 40 hours a week. Not 60 hours a week PLUS half my remaining free time keeping skills “up to date”.

        • #3252395

          yeah yeah

          by justino ·

          In reply to work to live

          I work 9-5 5 days thats it. The fact that you dont like the enviroment will mean that you will always not enjoy the job that you are working in. Why did you get into this field in the first place.

      • #3254624

        Sick of dealing…

        by mwatch ·

        In reply to Good Get Out of IT

        with tech miracle workers that can’t walk into a room without irritating everyone with a pulse.

        I was the fire fighter in my last career, working for a software vendor. I would get involved when the techies toasted it and someone had to physically fly to the customer site. 99% was fixing the personal relationship with the customer and then fixing the software. Yeah i did that too.

        Please if all you add to the discussion is “good get out I’m sick of you” lock yourself in the network closet until you can think of something useful.

        • #3091478


          by justino ·

          In reply to Sick of dealing…

          How about get yourself fucked…..All i hear is winge winge winge…

        • #3091285

          No cover on the bet – drat

          by mwatch ·

          In reply to 1111111

          I had fifty on your response. Sorry to say couldn’t find someone silly enough to cover the bet. Another chance to make a buck that didn’t work out.

          Are you really as happy in your career as imply? I ask only because you are displaying just the tiniest bit of hostility.

          Remember High Blood pressure is a KILLER!

        • #3252777


          by justino ·

          In reply to No cover on the bet – drat

          I love my job…And the only thing that is negative about it is dealing with people like this guy who dont want to be in IT and dont like it. Apart from that I do 40 hours a week 9-5 and its all good 🙂

        • #3091376

          Sick of pretenders

          by glastron ·

          In reply to Sick of dealing…

          The problem comes from people who got in during the Dot com boom when they were throwing crazy money and benifits at anyone that had a pulse. Now it’s “poor me, everyone is not kissing my behind.” If anyone thought those days were anything but a fluke they are misguided. Keep your expectations realistic and your skill set current and you will be fine.

        • #3252778

          I agree Totally

          by justino ·

          In reply to Sick of pretenders

          The amount of pretenders etc was an absolute joke. This is a highly skilled field. The dot com era u saw people who could use a keyboard being employed in IT.

        • #3252774

          Stereo Type blah blah blah

          by justino ·

          In reply to Sick of dealing…

          Yeah it would be nice if I had trouble talking to people etc. The problem is I do a lot of pre/post sales design work with our clients.

          Ive been in IT for 20 years and yes i dont have much tolerance for rubish and there is a lot in IT. A lot of people love to make excuses instead of solving the problems. A lot of the excuse makers are ones like this guy who dont know and dont want to know. Get out of IT if you dont want to be in it. You are just wasting your time and mine.

      • #3254668

        Not 100% accurate

        by x-marcap ·

        In reply to Good Get Out of IT

        I was told by a boss 15 years my junior that I was too old and made too much money. There is the door.
        He was a sales person for a consulting firm I had helped establish. I was the first person in a 5 state area… I was billable until 9 years 11 months and 29 days. The client had no Idea I was removed they were willing to pay more, but at 10 years there were lucrative stock options that no tech for that firm ever reached…

      • #3252199

        Amen brother

        by blueknight ·

        In reply to Good Get Out of IT

        Those who really enjoy the IT field do have a passion for it. It’s difficult to put into words that someone unfamiliar with IT can understand. We love the challenges and do this more for the satisfaction of solving difficult problems than anything else. We are extremely patient when it comes to working because that’s what is often required, but at the same time we frequently have little patience for those whose skills are viewed as inadequate for doing the same type of work.

        Well put Justino.

    • #3080677

      IT ?

      by richard.dunning1 ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Are there jobs that don’t involve IT?

      • #3080608

        so true

        by sbutler ·

        In reply to IT ?

        my dad 66, still teaches part time and is administrator for a few community/charity groups.. everything is on a PC, he loves email and the web.

        mum’s doing work for the elctrol commission, the book works on PC. still can’t work out how to use the web tho 🙂

        • #3254647

          Excuse MEEEEEEEEEE!!

          by rkendsley ·

          In reply to so true

          Excuse me, but emailing and using the web does not make one an IT expert.

          At least no more than using a phone make one a telecommunication expert.

        • #3253404

          I’d say it’s a good start

          by sbutler ·

          In reply to Excuse MEEEEEEEEEE!!

          (with a little bit a duh) yes, I know the difference. for someone who used pen and paper, and had a secatary all his working life it’s a good start

        • #3252192

          And therein lies a problem in the Business/IT mix

          by psifiscout ·

          In reply to Excuse MEEEEEEEEEE!!

          One of the biggest headaches I have encountered in my eight short years in IT is managers who interview and hire techs, supposedly get to know what the techs qualifications are, tehn get PO’d at the tech when he/she cannot perform a task that is out of their range of expertise. Early on in my IT career I had a supervisor that hired me after a lengthy interview. At that time, I had one year of a 2 year IT degree completed and MCP certification comprising “Network Essentials” and NT4 Workstation exams. The supervisor told me to go configure peoples e-mail on MS Outlook. When I explained that I had never used outlook much less done configurations on the program. His response was “Why not? You’re Microsoft Certified aren’t you?”

          God save us from ignorance of supervisors.

      • #3252532


        by jesc ·

        In reply to IT ?

        There are lots of jobs that aren’t IT. It just depends on your definition. If the definition is that a job is IT if it includes a computer then the guy that digs ditches but punches in on a computerized time clock is IT.

        PC’s are universal now, just like phones. Just because someone uses an PC they are no more an IT person than everyone that uses a phone is a call center worker.

        • #3091440

          self check

          by richard.dunning1 ·

          In reply to Absolutely!

          Provide we don?t loose sight of the fact that the application of IT is to facilitate other peoples work and not an end in its self, apart from development and research but even here it?s debatable

      • #3101117

        10 yrs… moving up to mgt…

        by angry_white_male ·

        In reply to IT ?

        I’ve had enough time doing helpdesk, desktop support, network administration. Promotion to management went through (well, I’ll still be in IT)… but the days of fixing stupid e-mail and printing problems are coming to an end for me! I’m currently a network administrator and even the fun of reading everyone’s e-mail is getting boring.

        But I think many of the problems we are having are because we’re not getting good support from management to get us the tools to enable our users to work smarter instead of picking up the phone and calling the helpdesk for every little thing. It’s frustrating. Granted, a smarter user base will only erode our job security however it only takes a year or two of doing helpdesk/desktop support (the bulk of IT jobs) before you burn out and want to move on or up. Most network admins aren’t going to let go of their jobs to let some helpdesk lackey move up (where else would they go), and IT management jobs are even rarer.

        But part of the problem is that most IT people make poor managers (and vice versa), so only a few get to enjoy the best of both worlds. So really for many IT people, there’s a glass ceiling that many of us hit because we don’t have good soft/people skills.

        But ultimately, the problem is that IT has moved from a specialty/professional job to a commodity that has deflated salaries and dilluted the talent pool with people who jumped on the bandwagon in the past 7-8 years.

    • #3080669

      After starting in IT in 1964 I find myself back in it

      by cjmiller ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      At 60 years of age I find myself back working as a contract programmer because its so damn difficult to get a job doing anything else at my age.
      I started in computers in ’64 when they were big enough to walk inside to do repairs. I was lucky enough to be a mainframe salesman in the ,70s & ’80s when the money was great but the PC brought the house of cards tumbling down.
      Boring support work for companies that don’t want to pay and don’t want to take responsibility for their own systems was living death through the ’90’s. No money, no thanks, only presure when things broke.
      Thank goodness my youngest son has put his IT degree on the wall & is driving a fork lift & enjoying his regular hours plus paid overtime.

      Get out now while you can still do something worthwhile with your life.

      • #3088998

        Getting Out

        by codebubba ·

        In reply to After starting in IT in 1964 I find myself back in it

        Sorry you feel that way about your programming work.

        I’ve been writing code since about 1978 and am still doing it as a senior developer now. Can’t imagine doing anything else for a living, really – I enjoy it very much and make a good living at it. When I retire I’ll spend a little more time in the left seat of a Cessna (just got my pilot’s license last fall) but I wouldn’t change anything about what I’m doing right now.

        Driving a forklift would drive me UP the wall. Glad your son is enjoying it. Don’t assume that just because you’re burned out that it means staying in IT isn’t worthwhile – which is exactly what your statement implies.


        • #3076484

          Staying in one place anywhere can be a bad thing

          by psifiscout ·

          In reply to Getting Out

          I was in the military for 22 years before entering the IT field and going into a new environment at 40 was harder then I thought, taking orders from guys half my age after being the guy in charge for 20 years was tough.

          But life goes on…

          I discovered that one of the best things about the Army (and the worst) was constant movement (typically every 2 to 3 years). This was the ‘pro’ side, you got what amounted to a fresh environment every couple of years.

          On the ‘con’ side, you had to pack up and move just as often.

          But since retiring from that career and staring in IT I have discovered that working in the same office for going on 8 years (with little hope of advancement) is a definite ‘con’ of the IT field. It is one of the reasons that my “IT career” will very likely be much shorter than my career in the military.

        • #3076413

          move on or up every five years

          by lwood ·

          In reply to Staying in one place anywhere can be a bad thing

          Ironic that I turned in my notice last week at a position that I’ve had for 4.3 years. Why? No career progress-position becoming stagnant. I got an email today from a peer discussing how she gets no respect after being there for eleven years and she is right! Their going to make a co-worker fifteen years younger than her a peer who has no management experience and it’s all because she has become to comfortable to move on when their career advancement is non-existent. Take your own best advise and move on to something better, or a new challenge before you become part of the furniture. IT is a good career, and we need guys like you-don’t give up just find something else. You will be happier-I know I am!

    • #3080651

      you and me both

      by ka2sph ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Like you I busted my butt to get through college putting up with a lot of crap I am sure you did too.
      I spent 4 1/2 years to get a double Bachelors with a minor. I graduated in 1982 and I thought I was going to be set for life. WRONG!!!
      I was able to work for McD and others for a time. Then I thought I was about to make it.
      The first “computer” job I had, a company hired me to help customers…My first day into work and I am shoved into a warehouse and told to organize it. I figured it had to be some form of hazing so I went with it. Nope it was not hazing. I was hired by WESTWOOD COMPUTER in N.J. and lied to. They needed a token handicapped person to try for a government contract. Well I figured, give it some time put up with it, a pay check is still a pay check and I could just keep job hunting. This bunhc of human refuse did not get the contract. I was tossed out of the door..LITERALLY!!!!
      All this time I kept hearing the same thing. I lacked any experience…like 80 hours a week in the computer room running the student systems, putting up with the crap from the “real staff”, etc. was nothing. This was on top of classes and classwork.
      Next job I was hired by a company called AMCEST that monitors alarm systems by radio and through computers. The company is owned by three friends. The one that hired me was not the one who I would be working with. When that jerk came back from his vacation he made it clear to me as we shook hands in greeting that he did not want me or need me and I was going to be out…well he got me out, he had to beat me up and his friends lied for him, the other employees of course, saw nothing.
      Then my life fell apart. I went from being moderately handicapped to being in reallllll deeep you know what.
      All this because I listened to the college recruiters.
      Yeah, I was in demand, I was in demand to be treated like crap.
      Yeah I was in demand, I was used, abused, beaten up, and I could go on.
      Was college worth it, NO!!!
      Has my degree meant anything..NOPE
      What did I do when my Alma Mater asked me to comment on my education..and to contribute…you don’t want to know what I told them..and how I told was just too disgusting..but I was that mad, angry, furious, frustrated, etc.
      I even had one recruiter for a company tell me that I was worth more dead than alive!!!!
      I was never able to keep up with the trends in programming so I have kept my hands in hardware. I help my friends who appreciate it. I write webpages for my friends and a few clients. But mostly I have been forced to get by on Social Security because of my handicaps. That is what my degree means to me…a roll of toilet paper has more meaning and importance than my diploma.
      As for the certifications, they are great..but you cannot get the if you cannot afford the classes and books…and that is how it is when you get by on $600 a month!!!!!!!!! Certifications are as useful as my diploma/degree and tits on a bull.

    • #3080645

      Nothing lasts forever

      by philip_jones2003 ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I very much agree. Dont get me wrong but I enjoy the work but the stress and sacrifices are too much. Im 52 and still living out of a suitcase. Most of my money spent on divorce.

      How long does your work last? A few years and all your efforts forgotten. If you are coding then NO ONE is going to open a museum for ‘great code of the past’

      The turning point for me came when I renovated a 16th century barn in France. The beams in what is now a lounge took 10 hours of backbreaking work EACH to restore.

      Just like IT? NO. Those beams will be there in another 150 years. My IT efforts? I cant remember what I did last year.

      • #3252580

        good IT

        by ladyreader ·

        In reply to Nothing lasts forever

        There can be a creative element in software development but only another programmer can appreciate its elegance, creativity, efficiency.

        Code will never be the kind of artifact that can be hung on a wall or placed on a shelf for all comers to admire. And its half-life can be measured in months.

        If you have a personal need for outside validation of the quality of your work take up painting or ceramics… or restoring 16th century French barns (sounds like fun!)

    • #3080643

      The Hype Is Over, but you can try else!!!

      by kovachevg ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      This is no longer the IT field of 1998 when you could just go through a C course and get 60K per year without a degree. So don’t expect things to be easy. You got the degree but there are a lot of smart people out there who also have degrees and years of experience.

      Also, IT, like any scientific field, implies a mife long experience. Someone should have told you that before you began your studies.

      Bye the way, what did you do before 35? You can have a suitable background to become a Business Analyst and your degree in IT will be welcome.

      On employment: the most skilled candidate rarely gets the job. It is the guy that markets and sells himself best on interviews. So get better on that front and you will succeed. It looks like you haven’t really started with IT because the only thing you mention is your degree. Don’t you just want to give it a try?

      There are different positions in IT. Take some IT management courses and get certified – PMI’s certification is best. Then apply to junior IT management positions.

      • #3252456

        My Turn?

        by too old for it ·

        In reply to The Hype Is Over, but you can try else!!!

        “This is no longer the IT field of 1998 when you could just go through a C course and get 60K per year without a degree. So don’t expect things to be easy. ”

        I got skipped over back in the late 90’s when companies gave the young hot-shots the big salaries and sign on bonus checks while treating the older candidates like crap.

        These days, I REALLY expect to hear “we have a sign on bonus for older workers” or “we made some poor hiring decisions in the late 90’s, but we are trying to improve” within the first 5 minutes of talking ot the HR guy.

        If not, I know that it really isn’t the place for me.

    • #3080641

      Feeling the same way

      by teachit7 ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I am now fifty, unemployeed, cannot get a job in my chosen career path of IT. I agree with you 100%. I too, am sick of all the pain and suffering that I have been through to get this far and for what? I believe that both employers and the general public dont understand what we have to endure to work in this field. Personally, I hope that not too far into the future all computers, the Internet and all associated equipment collapses into one big heap. With this occuring there will be more jobs, real value of employees and we will be back to working with pen and paper.

      • #3080629

        Hi, its not worth it mate!

        by andrew.carr ·

        In reply to Feeling the same way

        Well if I were you, consider working for yourself, and stuff em! That’s what I am going to do with very little money.

        You can teach I.T., and if you look around you can probably get Freelance work or advertise on the internet. It’s worth looking into.

        If you can’t join em, beat em!


      • #3252479


        by austin316 ·

        In reply to Feeling the same way

        You have my sympathies. It’s a damn shame that a guy who has busted his ass for decades in this field is tossed aside. Good luck in finding something soon.

        • #3252816

          But isn’t that the point?

          by armandocanales ·

          In reply to re:


          We started out our careers loving our jobs & the long hours weren’t a problem & having to keep up wasn’t either…Till we got our own families….so why does our career have to exist at the exclusion of the rest of our lives?

          Look around U…Does the Accountant two doors down from yuurh hoose have to do someone’s taxes at 3am just cuz his beeper went off? Does the grocery manager 2 doors down the other way have to come in just cuz the truck didn’t show up on time? I don’t fucking think so….yet we’ll come in & do “our jooouuhhhb” any time…..24/7….

          Here’s the bad part…They need us….& if we let them…..they will take advantage…..Goddamdguarantee yah!
          Here’s the worst part…for the rest of IT….
          we do it to ourselves…..

          Jus tryin’ tah’ hep’ – AC

      • #3088885

        Feeling the same way

        by codebubba ·

        In reply to Feeling the same way

        Oh yeah, now that’s real mature. “I can’t find a job so I hope they all crash and burn.” Maybe you better examine your attitude a little; maybe that’s why you can’t find a job at 50. What a cry-baby.

        I’m 48 myself and I’ve got recruiters calling me all the time telling me that they could place me in a heartbeat.

        If you’re really any good and you like working in IT there’s work out there; but not with a defeatist attitude like that.


    • #3080619

      Tunnel Vision

      by bree ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I’m glad to see that you are allowing your feelings to open your eyes. People in all fields often suffer from a kind of tunnel vision when it comes to careers. They see themselves as “X” kind of “professional”… a valued member of the “Y” company team. Their bubble gets broken when they find that their magical “career” doesn’t mean a whole lot to someone who has some decision making authority over them. They become disaffected and uncertain of who and what they are or should be.

      My friend we are all trading our time for money or other consideration. Your comapny is not there for your benefit. It is there to benefit the stockholders who own it and profit from it. They trade their money and resources for your skill and labor. They measure how many dollars over and above what they pay you does your work contribute to them. There is nothing all that wonderful or even all that mysterious about it. You get certain “rights” and “privileges” as an employee usually because government forces the company to give them to you.

      The message is simple… we are all contractors. We sell our service for the best deal we can find. When we forget that we work for ourselves, we get the tunnel vision that makes us true “employees”. We put all of our eggs into the baskets of company and career. It is always dangerous to have too many eggs in too few baskets.

      You are bright and energetic. Be entrepreneurial and take a risk. Do what you enjoy. Become good at it and deliver a good or service that people are willing to pay for. The basic principle of sales is exquisitely simple… find out what the customer wants and give it to him. Sell something to someone. Sell your own skill. Sell something that you make. Sell an idea that you have… whatever. Just realize that you are in this for numero uno and not for anyone else.

      There are no limits on what you can do other than those you impose on yourself. So stop the self doubt and make yourself valuable to someone who has money and you will never be idle or wanting.

      Good Luck!!!

    • #3080613

      you need to enjoy it in the first place

      by sbutler ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I see to many people getting into IT during boom times (eg. dollar signs for eyes, heck anyone can operate a computer, right?) and don’t realise the amount of work that goes into being good at the job and earning decent wages. PEople I know that keep on earning great money, love it, because it’s thier hobby and their passion. so where’s the stress if you’re doing what you want to do?

      • #3090154

        do what you enjoy

        by mcak ·

        In reply to you need to enjoy it in the first place

        Money should not be the first criteria for a career. Sure you have to make enough to live, but market demands are fickle, so choosing a career in a hot market is not a good idea. If you don’t like IT, get out now. Find your passion….

    • #3080595

      Exit Strategy

      by morti ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I hear what you are saying. If there was a way you could smoothly transition from the situation you are now in to one that would provide you time freedom and an increase in income, without the stress you presently have, would you be interested in checking it out?

    • #3080594

      Reply To: I’m DONE with the IT field!

      by april ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I’ve been doing IT for the last 10 years and am totally burned out. I’m sick to death of computers and dealing with the morons who use them. I know at least 5 other IT pros who feel the same.

      Last year I had to re-interview for the job I was currently holding and was asked what I did outside of work to learn new things. I’m a mom of 2 elementary school kids. By the time I get home, do dinner, do homework, kids to bed, cleanup…it’s time for me to go to bed! I stare at a computer all day long…I don’t want to go home and continue staring at one. I admit it, I am not a computer geek – there’s more to life than computers for me.

      My plan is to stay with IT for another 2-3 years, but in the meantime take classes so that I can move into a different profession. I’m not going to make near as much money…but it will be completely worth it.

      • #3252657

        It’s not so easy to shift careers…

        by arlen.fletcher ·

        In reply to Reply To: I’m DONE with the IT field!

        I’m in Info Security & hate it with a passion. So 6 years ago I started from scratch w/ night classes to get an engineering degree. Unfortunately, no one wants a new engineering graduate who’s in “mid-life”. So pick your new career carefully, and get a degree that allows easy entry into the field. Best of luck to you!

    • #3080593

      Another path

      by wayne.victor ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I have been with my company, a non-profit charity, almost 20 years, the CIO has been here 24. We have extremely low staff turnover. I know of other CIO/IT management types in similar companies with long tenures. Two differences, a real mission and knowing you won’t get rich. These companies provide stability. One has to wear many hats as the IT depts. are very lean.

    • #3080591

      I’m done with IT!!!!

      by stancild ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      After 20+ years in the IT field (most of which have been enjoyable) last year I was laid off. Took 7 months to find a job. Pitiful!!! There was a time when job hopping was the norm but now it’s difficult to find a job even when you’re employed because of jobs being shipped overseas.

      As for STRESS…what stress!? There is no stress in this industry. As austin316 noted, it’s 24/7/365, you rise and fall everyday thinking about the problems from yesterday and how you’re going to solve the problems of today.

      And yes, I’m 40 something and have seen the same scenerios where the companies just boot you out and then all the years of experience count for nothing for getting another job or “you’re not specialized” enough for other jobs.

      I’m looking to change careers and yes…I’m done with IT too!!!!!!

    • #3080580

      Look up reality in the dictionary…

      by galt ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      There are other fields where experience can work against you–journalism is one. If you stay at newspaper for more than three years you are pigeonholed as “complacent.” I spent 19 years as a reporter/photographer/editor before reinventing myself in 1987 as a programmer/analyst, systems analyst, later as a network admin and now as a network security analyst doing firewall installations and maintenance. You want to know something? I get just as bitter as anyone about downsizing, outsourcing and all the rest because I have lived it and suffered through it, but you, my friend, sound like one of those wet-behind-the-ears legions who want their checks handed to them on a silver platter. Go. Leave the field for dinosaurs like me who actually like to earn their paychecks.

      • #3252460

        YOU need a reality check

        by austin316 ·

        In reply to Look up reality in the dictionary…

        How DARE you tell me that I don’t earn my paycheck. My preious employers would ALL say that I went the extra mile for them. I worked full time, went to school full time, and worked shift work for many years to get a degree in this field. Don’t make assumptions or tell me I haven’t paid my dues, you don’t know anything about me.

        • #3091334

          Quit whining…

          by galt ·

          In reply to YOU need a reality check

          and go back to work. Or change careers. If you have been as dedicated as you say then you know there is nothing halfway about IT. You either can do it or you can’t. You either will do it, or–like someone else said in a post–you won’t, and go sell dog food. Oh, by the way–I don’t have to know anything about you to know that you haven’t survived enough layoffs, downsizings, rollups, and job description redefinitions for the angst you seem to carry.

    • #3252681

      How is strategy working for career change?

      by gigs ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Just wondering how the exit strategy is going. I have been mulling over doing the same, but I am still trying to remain positive about my present IT career.

    • #3252674

      smarten up

      by techniquephreak ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Congratulations! You’re not getting booted because of your age; you’re getting booted because you won’t upgrade.

      I’ve been in this field for about 14 years now, and I have had the exact opposite experience as you. What separates the men from the boys in IT is, for one, the fact that they find learning new technologies exhilarating – not boring. If you have no passion for this career, you’re going to fail.

      I have more free time than anyone I know. Sure, I have to make the occasional late night or weekend sacrifice. Big whoop, because I am greeted with handsome rewards… I make great pay and I get great benefits. I love my work, would never even consider doing something else, and frankly would do this for free if money weren’t an issue.

      Don’t let other people’s stress become yours! Learn how to manage your users? expectations and observe your limits! Otherwise, you’re going to fail at any career… You need to keep things in perspective.

      • #3085809

        Smarten Up

        by codebubba ·

        In reply to smarten up

        Yeah … that’s the spirit! I couldn’t agree more.

        I’ve been in this field as a developer for about 28 years now (since ’78) and I still enjoy writing code.

        The younger developers at our shop are a bunch of whiners … they’re so busy crying about all the pressure, stress and long hours. I put in a good 9.5-10 hours per day myself but that’s about it. Why? Because I GET THE JOB DONE. Sometimes I wonder what’s wrong with these younger kids. Then I realized – they never really learned to WORK! Many of them came into the field during the DOT-BOMB and never learned how to really earn their keep, now they are finding out that, like any field, it takes working SMART and LEARNING to get ahead.

        Wanna leave IT? Go ahead folks … what’s stopping you? Go find something you’d rather do, then you can be the HOSS in your field.

        -CB 😉

    • #3252668

      Reply To: I’m DONE with the IT field!

      by noo-yawker ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I understand and, sadly, agree with your assessment of the IT profession.

      Opportunities and the work environment in IT have changed dramatically since I entered the field 30 years ago. It was a distinct growth industry then with more jobs than people to fill them. One could easily pick and choose both technical and business directions and the practitioners were well-respected and well-paid.

      Many circumstances have changed that have affected the IT profession. Some are related to the contraction in American business itself and some are the result of the changed world environment as described by Thomas Friedman in “The World is Flat.” In actuality, they are all inter-related.

      The bottom line is that IT jobs have ceased to be in demand and abundant. Many of them can now be shifted and re-shifted internationally to areas paying lower wages. More and more of the type of work in IT that was valued and highly specialized has become commodified.

      Ten years ago I might have whole-heartedly recommended an IT path to someone entering the business world. Today I couldn’t in good conscience do so without lots of caveats.

      This is part of a larger problem as well. Just where and what are the opportunities for young people in America in 2006?

      • #3252438

        No opportunities in third-world United States

        by too old for it ·

        In reply to Reply To: I’m DONE with the IT field!

        Luckily, my daughter has musical talent and may be able to make a career as a music educator. Not here tho. Overseas where discipline and classical music still matter.

        There are no opportunities for young people in America in 2006. And there won’t be as long as industry and retail are like junkies: Hooked on the heroin of cheap overseas labor.

        • #3091344


          by ladyreader ·

          In reply to No opportunities in third-world United States

          When I was in college we used to sing a paraody of an old song titled something like, “Don’t Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Cowboys”. We sang “Don’t Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Programmers”.

          It was funny, but with an edge. The jobs were there at that time but so was the stress and the number of hours and the middle-of-the night hours.

          My kids aren’t college-age yet but I would steer them away from IT.

        • #3252335

          My kid is college aged, and …

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to cowboys

          … I’m steeering her into music education.

          I tell her that she could go into a blind audition against 20 Julliard-trained flute players with her high school band exerieince and STILL have a better chance than the old man in a IT interview.

    • #3252666

      Amen. Get out while you can.

      by simpatico ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I have been in the business for 33 years and the disrespect grows each year after your reach the age of 35. Over the years people have gotten accustomed to doing things faster and faster and they have become less tolerant with the the IT staff. I have seen a lot of people with much less talent go a lot further than IT people. Heck even trades people make more money. I did not recommend the IT profession to my son. What does that tell you.

    • #3252664

      Sick of IT or SICK of Corp BS?

      by ali40961 ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      There is a difference. I LOVE IT, I HATE corp bs. So i got out of the corp environment. No more STRESS…. I LOVE being a consultant! And the money and prospects are SOOO much better!

      The studying aspect is part of ANY job. You have to learn in order to move forward. The good news is that the IT field has so many different facets, surely there is one or more that interest you.

      Good Luck!

      • #3252631

        Find something you like

        by richard ·

        In reply to Sick of IT or SICK of Corp BS?

        Finding something you like for a long time is not all that easy.
        I’ve been consulting for 15 yrs. I did it because it was the fast lane. You see more things faster and there was fast money in the 90’s.
        Now I want to go into a corp… I am really really tired of consulting companies, and don’t want to do small business I like large projects ect. Seems that it is harder and harder to get good money. There seems to be more up’s and down’s, that I think is just the natural evolution of the business. As a consultant it is hard to actually build the solutions out to the dept that I hope I can in a corp….
        I guess the key is finding a good place… In a corp or consulting it is hard to find the best jobs. You also have to spend some time to figure out what that great job means to you and resist taking a job that is not the one. Still you can not be sure until you are there for a while…

    • #3252663

      IT Exhaustion

      by busytech ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Mentally, I am definitely where you are. I have been in the IT field for almost 20 years and have experienced its many ups and downs…
      I have been very successful in my career; however, the endless hours of studying and keeping up with the game has caused an “IT burnout”.
      About 7 years ago, I came to the conclusion that this would not be the field that I would retire from, so I began to strategize about what was my second passion in life. The thing that I loved doing most was working and helping people. Therefore, I began to seek jobs that would allow me to still make a living in IT but to be surrounded by people in the “health/human services field”. For me this was a great challenge. I secured a job as an Operations Manager at a health company and apart of my duties was to assist in updating their network, working to get an active database and website for this company, working with hospitals to renew contracts, responsible for IT and staff budget, and contract writing, Overseer of Delivery Manager and Customer Service Manager, etc. A second job was to work as a Network Analyst for an insurance company. The experiences allowed me to transition into these arenas and be around the environment I thought I wanted to be in – without sacrificing my income. I could ask questions as well as volunteer for other non-IT related duties “which I did”, that helped me cement my decision. You could say testing the water before taking a swim.

      Finally, I enrolled into a MBA-Healthcare program and have already gotten several certifications. I have joined organizations and am volunteering so that people will know that I am serious about my decision. Graduation is 6 months away.

      Good Luck—strategy is key!!!

    • #3252661

      I’m DONE with the IT field!

      by 50kilroy ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I’m very happy to see that someone else has seen the trash that I.T. has become.
      I was in I.T. in 1975 and have just last year finally moved into a R&D position. I.T. has become the domain of Windows babies and ‘programmers’ who do not know anything about computers. To quote a ‘programmer’, “I don’t _need_ to know anything about computers, I’m a programmer”.
      When he dropped that on me, I started looking in earnest. Congratulations. Best of luck in your new life.

      • #3253623

        There is a lot of truth to that!

        by beads ·

        In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

        Its almost like M$ has single handidly killed in depth knowledge about the field in general. Thats why I moved deeper into the Networking field (routers, switches and firewalling) years ago.

        Now if it doesn’t have a GUI it must be too difficutlt to understand.

        – beads

        • #3085806

          If it doesn’t have a GUI

          by codebubba ·

          In reply to There is a lot of truth to that!

          Hmm … you know, maybe that’s why I’ve gotten to the point I have with the company I’m in. Although I develop Windows code myself, I’m not “married” to the GUI – if you know what I mean. I’ve managed to develop the ability to solve problems in software at all levels. If I have to dive underneath the covers I can still do that.

          This new crop of “programmers” does not understand what’s beneath the GUI … they don’t really know how a computer works. No wonder they’re so inept!

          -CB 😉

      • #3253457

        From a programmer

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

        The programmer you talked to is a twit. I’d take a flying guess at them being crap as well.

        You didn’t start discussing the principles behind TTL did you or draw a J-K flip flop.

        It’s meant to be black box, not black magic.

        • #3091409

          Now I remember how old I am

          by x-marcap ·

          In reply to From a programmer

          Do you need the Layout of the PNPs?


          And the NPN?

        • #3252157

          Furrowed brows all round

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Now I remember how old I am

          Now you’ve drawn out the logic circuit with AND , OR, XOR and NOT gates, could you rejig it so it only uses NAND gates you wasteful git.

          Those were the days, programming tool = soldering iron.

        • #3132781

          RE:From a programmer

          by 50kilroy ·

          In reply to From a programmer

          ha haha . No, we weren’t discussing TTL nor flip-flops. There was a sloppy piece of code that was not returning any errors, it just stopped executing which caused the piece of controlled equipment to freeze in whatever condition it was in at the moment of crash. This jerk blamed the problem on: 1 the computer, 2 the equipment (a lathe, btw), 3 the _monitor_!, 4 the user (who had only 2 controls in his gooey window), ad nauseum.
          I proved to my satisfaction that it was sloppy programming and with that in mind, I loaded his software on a new computer and attached it to the lathe in question. Sure enough, it crashed. We changed the monitor (at the “programmers’ ” insistence, had facilities allot us a different lathe, in short, I showed him that the problem followed where his program went.
          I eventually had to contact his manager, who got me the source code.
          The guy had not checked his parameters, and didn’t provide any error handling routine at all. When I mentioned this at the post-mortem meeting with his manager, that was when he sprung the “I don’t need to know anything about computers …” nonsense on us.

          Thankfully, not all programmers are this type, but an increasing number of the co-ops and contractors are indeed just like this.

        • #3102086

          The monitor ?

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to RE:From a programmer

          Hey good excuse, never thought of that one. The cancel button never appeared because the monitor was broken. Sounds like to lumbered with a right pratt, find out who okayed him and shout at them.

        • #3101909

          the Monitor?

          by 50kilroy ·

          In reply to RE:From a programmer

          Shout at them?!!

          This guy is getting awards! The department head thinks that he is the best in the business.

        • #3103001

          I’ve been tidying up after

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to the Monitor?

          a cunt like that. He left before I started, but a lot of the bosses thought he was the best thing since sliced bread. Everybody who’s been lumbered with working on his code, thinks he’s a total arse, especially me. When he read the article ‘how to write BAD code’ he thought BAD was an acronym.
          Bad ass development perhaps.

        • #3102957

          Re: I’ve been tidying up after

          by bad boys drive audi ·

          In reply to I’ve been tidying up after

          Dude! We have a lot more in common than we know! What was this cat’s name, because I’m thinking he moved here! That feeling you’re talking about…when you have to touch his code…I completely hate it!

          There’s a huge sigh every time an issue comes up and I trace it back to this guy. I hate going in there a battling it out with bad logic, bad design, and even worse data architecture.

        • #3103401

          Re: I’ve been tidying up after

          by 50kilroy ·

          In reply to Re: I’ve been tidying up after

          I feel your pain, but it would be decidedly unprofessional to reveal programmer jerko’s real identity. Just suffice it to say that he has many clones (or is that clowns?) and many more on the way.
          For some stress relief, Google “chronicles of george”.

      • #3101353

        RE: I’m DONE with the IT field!

        by bad boys drive audi ·

        In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

        kilroy quoted:

        >>To quote a ‘programmer’, “I don’t _need_ to know anything about computers, I’m a programmer”.


        He did NOT say that! Please tell me he didn’t say that!?! I would have shut down all communication with that individual if he said that to me.

        I guess I really don’t need to know much to code efficient Java or C# or … :-\

        • #3103002

          You’d need to be a genius to code

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to RE: I’m DONE with the IT field!

          efficient java.

        • #3102962

          Re; You’d need to be a genius to code

          by bad boys drive audi ·

          In reply to You’d need to be a genius to code

          I’ll digress from quoting my IQ, but your comment is excellently timed. I was just working with a fellow developer today with his code that was running slower than the toad ran his race with the hare!

          That’s pretty funny…

        • #3103398

          “I don’t need to know anything about computers. .. “

          by 50kilroy ·

          In reply to RE: I’m DONE with the IT field!

          He did say it. He meant it, too!
          Such is the quality of gooey programming in today’s corporate world.
          Did I mention that he is getting awards? His department director thinks that he is the greatest programmer in the field.
          harharhar hahahahahahahah :))

    • #3252650

      Im Sorry

      by james speed ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Although I disagree with part of your statement. I have been in this field since the beginning. I have held 4 positions, each with an increase in compensation and yes, responsibility. I have decided that Healthcare IT is where I truly belong. I agree it involves a dedication beyond normal jobs (especially Healthcare IT) but its worth it.

      I do not have a degree in this field (non-related) but have some certifications. The pay that i receive is equivalent to a person with a bachelors degree in a management position.

      Either you have not went after the right IT jobs or you are in an area where they are not that many available. Although, my current position is is in an area where they MIGHT be 1 job like mine in the whole county (very rural), I was able to obtain it.

      Anyone else’s thoughts?

      Laurens, SC

      • #3252623

        Lucky you

        by richard ·

        In reply to Im Sorry

        I am looking for that great job now.
        I have spent 15 years in the consulting, a dozen or more certifications, 2 rooms of my house are a computer lab and well over $100,000 spent.
        Now I think I am ready to deliver something valuable in the right place. Good for you for finding your comfort zone. That is the key

    • #3252649

      Don’t let the door hit you on the way out

      by peregrine_24 ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Seriously, if you don’t enjoy it, you’re making the right decision. As for me, I’ve been doing this for 10 years and I love it. I love the fact that I’m constantly learning and every day there’s a new challenge. Who wants to do the same thing day in and day out. Accountants. And look what happens to them. 🙂 Do what you love, and you’ll love what you do. And if you’re not enjoying IT, the get out and find something you do love. Even if it is being a dog food salesman like a previous poster wrote. Yikes!

      • #3253507

        Any job can get tiresome!

        by mdbradsh ·

        In reply to Don’t let the door hit you on the way out

        Even doing something you love to do can become tiresome when your forced to do it day-in and day-out, week after week, month after month, year after year. You really have to have an absolute passion for it to be able to do it all the time, for years, without ever burning out. Find that something you have an absolute passion for and go for it. Life is short. Our lives are what we make of them. You are in charge of your own destiny. Hey, don’t knock sales.I know people who are passionate sales people and they do very, very, well at it. Dogfood or whatever.

    • #3252641

      If IT is BORING to study, then you picked the wrong field

      by seasonedsysdba ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Pick a field or a subject you will enjoy understanding and exploring, want to master, and have the apptitude to handle. It may be another aspect of IT, maybe not. Figure out what you find gratifying when you give your time and skill. Look for work with an eye on finding that gratification. Then keep looking for new fields and subjects you want to explore, because things do get boring…

      • #3252401

        Get help finding a job you DO like!

        by frwagne ·

        In reply to If IT is BORING to study, then you picked the wrong field

        I second SeasonedsysDBA’s comments, and
        I’d like to recommend some books – “What Color is your Parachute” by Richard N. Bolles, also books on jobs/personality typing – read up on Meyers-Briggs personality typing and job matching. There are some parts of IT that would be boring to me, but there are others that are fascinating and a continuing challenge. You need to find the ones that ring your chimes! Also, if you got an IT degree, maybe it’s time to get another in a non-technical field. Network, talk to folks who do career counseling, ask for suggestions, recommendations. Do LOTS of listening. There must be a few nuggets in IT that have interested you – explore those, ask about them… good luck!

      • #3091277

        Re: Borning to study….

        by hexidigital ·

        In reply to If IT is BORING to study, then you picked the wrong field

        in my opinion, one of the biggest downfalls of the IT industry is the redundancy of the “studying.”
        On occasion, i will pick up an IT magazine, and flip through it only to learn the same things… how to disable Windows Messenger in XP, how to optimize RAM usage, etc.
        There seems to be a lacking in how interesting IT could be until a “breakthrough” comes around, i.e. IPv6, or even some would argue, Windows Vista.

    • #3252635

      I live in Malta and Would like to do the same.

      by stepscer ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I toltally agree with you that an IT carear takes too much of our peronal lives especially if one wants to keep upto date in his particular field. People keep wondering why I keep studying and sitting for exams all the time and think that I am either wierd or crazy. Normal people finish their studies and start working without ever having to grab a book related to their work again for the rest of their lives and I would like to feel that I can do a job without having to strugle to keep up with what is going on. For this resaon I would like to ask what you did and what kind of field you are into now. Who knows maybe I manage to do the same using my present experience to my advantage for a new job.

    • #3252630

      4 YEARS?

      by marco.deiorio ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      4 years is not enough time to call it a career… Read what all are saying. Anyone with more than 10 years LOVE IT. I hate to sound sniviling, but as an IT Director for a global company, I have many people that work for me that are extremely happy. I worked my way up the ranks and had many mentors along the way. Now, after 17 years in this business, I am reeping the rewards.

      If you find it boring then you’re not cut out for it. In my 17 years, I have become a GEEK to reckon with only beacuse of the studying. At night, in my spare time, in bed, at lunch and any free time I have I read rags, white papers and manuals. My most techie tech cannot pull the wool over my eyes. That’s hopw you climb the ladder; that’s how you make it in any career; that’s how you make it non boring; Tht’s how you last.

      Sorry to see anyone say that they are done for this field, but maybe there isn’t a field that’s right for you if you quit every 4 years…

      • #3252445

        more like 10 years

        by austin316 ·

        In reply to 4 YEARS?

        I went to school 4 years.

        Some of us have other hobbies and prefer not to spend all of our waking hours on IT. If that’s what it takes to remain marketable, then it’s not worth it.

      • #3075091


        by michigangeek ·

        In reply to 4 YEARS?

        I agree with Austin, but Mr. DeIorio…I find it hard to believe that you are a manager as you haven’t listened to one word that Austin said or stated. He is just stating that he is tired of it, and that even if he rises to your demi-god like status at your Global company he still faces the prospect of being canned…..! Glad I’m not working for you. All the best Austin!

      • #3076096

        OH Geeeze..

        by vince ·

        In reply to 4 YEARS?

        Oh my god.. get a grip Marco! What are you so proud of anyway? you work for 17 years and you still work for someone else??! So what if you spend countless hour upgrading in the I.T field.. what do you get at the end? nothing.. cause guess what, when your company is losing money, the first department they will cut is I.T. You think your CEO will lose sleep when he decided to lay you off so his stocks goes up 0.01.?? I.T is just a support department.. nothing more. You are foolish if you think they actually NEED you around… they can easily outsource you to China or India and pay someone that has a higher education and smarter for $2/hour to do your job. I might not be consider succesful, but I too put in close to 6 years of my life in a Global I.T department, but instead of spending 24/7 working for someone else I started my own company. After 4 years my company has growth into a self-sufficient property managment company. Now my company might not be a multi-million dollar global company, but atleast I own it and has something to pass on to my kids when I grow old. As we approach the age of global market you are competing for jobs in a global scale and there is always someone smarter younger and willing to work for less then you. Putting all your eggs into someone else basket is never a good thing, in the end you might be left with nothing.

        “Watch, listen, and learn. You can’t know it all yourself.. anyone who thinks they do is destined for mediocrity.” Donald Trump

      • #3076037

        4 Years?

        by kumaonbass ·

        In reply to 4 YEARS?

        Sniviling is not the right word … more like pompous.

        Obviously, the original poster of this thread has not found his niche in IT yet. As senior people in IT it is out job to either help him/her find that niche or help in anyway to make a transition to another career. Pounding our chests at our accomplishments to show it can be done just goes to prove his point all the more.

        Try listening and mentoring next time … something not learned from a text book but from the school of life.

      • #3076641

        I have 16 years in this field and…

        by richard ·

        In reply to 4 YEARS?

        I think your lifestyle sucks. I had to do it for a while but make no mistake is sucks. Not everyone with over 10 years thinks that there is no live outside of books and computers.
        IT is my second career and in about 18 months I will reach my cash goal of 3 million, that with my other assets will allow me to do something more normal.
        WORK HARD and cash out, the lifestyle SUCKS !!!

    • #3252621

      Only the Strong Survive

      by sdf_consultant ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I have been in the IT / Software field since 1980. I have seen many wonderful changes in that time span. This line of work allows you to play ?Super-Hero? for CEO’s and “Savior” to those people who are “challenged”. But, you also have to accept the blame of failures even though it may not have been through any fault of your own.
      I find nothing more satisfying than helping solve a problem even if its 2 o?clock in the morning. The good with the bad?I wouldn?t have it any other way.

    • #3252615

      YES YES!

      by cweb ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Not only do you have to study like hell to enter this field everything changes every couple of years! So you study all the time and never get to build on your existing knowledge. Its the only field where you cannot have 20 years of experience (well UNIX might be the exception). Pay is better than average in some locations, but with few exceptions you put in long hours, and are on call.

      • #3252565

        changing FOCUS ..

        by mbaker ·

        In reply to YES YES!

        I started IT as computer operator in Health Care Company, after getting and MIS BS degree 1989. Three years later went on to defense contractor as a database programmer and 10 years later was laid-off as network administrator. Went on to new contract as Security Engineer for huge network. A year later was laid-off. Went to day-care for a year to re-group (gain balance in life) … and now am back on contract as Network System Analyst. And I can say with open and honest heart I LOVE IT!! I have never doubted being in IT, just where to focus and when change with the times. During my laid-off times, I took up putting in a network in my church, a day-care, and friends computers that needed ADMINISTRATION!!!

        Yes, my pay has had highs and lows, stress has had highs and lows, and studing the new stuff is ALWAYS THERE (VISTA,SOX,Admin S/W, Deployment Made Easy, Security Fixes,New H/W, New S/W) but what field does not??

        I have worked 12 hours shifts, night shifts, weekend shifts, and day shifts … And have had a life all the while …

        Read “What Color is your Parachute?” … do what you love .. I promise, I have always bounced back in a better place, with a new aim …

        I love IT, database design, network system design, application design, hardware design,new tools for my toys … working with end-users, working with managers above me for my piece of the goals and objectives …

        It is your enjoyment of the tasks at hand … DO YOU like them? If not find the tasks you WANT, and move towads that …

        Do want the dentist that does not want new education? The doctor who does not like working on the weekend? The lawyer that avoids stress?

        Every profession has AWESOME ascepts, and has Pitfals that are ugly.

        • #3252441

          you’re forgetting something

          by austin316 ·

          In reply to changing FOCUS ..

          In IT, most of what you learn right now will be obsolete and useless in 10 years. If you learn another field, you learn a foundation that you can build on. and most of what you learn now will be good in 30 years.

    • #3252610

      What are you really fed up with?

      by mitchlr ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      It might be a good idea to take some time off. You’re obviously very frustrated, but IT as a field might not be what you’re frustrated with.

      In my own case I get tired of dealing with clueless managers, the usual yada yada yada, but I still like doing IT. I put up with my ethically and intellectually challenged managers and do my job in spite of them.

      What can really be frustrating is systemic and structural organizational dysfunctionality. That increases the stress level to a great degree, but it isn’t IT per se that sucks — it’s the organizational issues that get to you.

      Take some time off, do some odd jobs to keep income coming or live off your savings if you have enough put aside. Reflect on what you really like to do. Is there something else you’d really rather be doing but you stay in IT because the money is better than you would get, say, in an entry level job teaching scuba diving, then you might be in IT for the wrong reason.

      Someone else had some sage advice — find what you love doing and do that; the money may not be there when you start out, but it will eventually. And don’t let age or experience bother you.

      In my own case, I’m pushing 50. I do IT because it pays reasonably well and isn’t as much drudgery as, say, digging ditches. I’m finishing a graduate degree in an unrelated field that I have worked on for five years. It’ll be a pay cut, but that’s OK.

      The main point is, just running away from something is not prudent; you need to be intentional about what you’re running TO, or better yet, making slow, steady, and purposeful strides toward where you are going.

      So right now, take a breather and figure out what you want to do. If you don’t know, it may be possible that this teleological uncertainty about your own life may be a significant part of the stress you’re experiencing.

      If you have a pastor or other counselor, talk with them about it. You might want to read _The Search for Significance_ which you should be able to check out of the local library. Find something that you believe in that’s bigger than yourself.

      Someone else suggested that you pray before you make any decisions, and I think there is wisdom there as well. But the thing I think you most need to hear is that IT may not be the problem; it might just be the symbol for the real issue.

      – The Bald Guy

    • #3252609

      See YA!

      by jdclyde ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      good luck with your endevor to find a job that gives you better pay, has less stress, no demanding study, no sacrifices of personal time and gives you the stable life you wish for.

      Oh shoot, it looks like all those jobs don’t exist!

      Wake up, grow up, and get over it.

      Your ONLY chance is to take every penny that you can rub together and try to win this weeks “powerball” lottery. Otherwise you will be just trading one field for another with just as many demands.

      The better the pay, the more demands on your time.

      • #3252433


        by austin316 ·

        In reply to See YA!

        Never said I had a problem working hard. There are many other fields that pay better and you’re not obligated to spend as much time “keeping up” as you do in IT. As another poster stated, life is what passes you by when you’re worrying about your career.

      • #3252430


        by austin316 ·

        In reply to See YA!

        I’m not sure how old you are. But you might want to read the posts by the guys who’ve been in this field 20, 30, 40 years. Like the poster below:

        “Having spent the last 40 years in the IT field I agree with you 150%. Downsized twice in the last 4 years, and having to squeak by on consulting gigs and more demands than pay. I have switched to the accounting field (debit to the window and credit to the wall). The pay is mediocre but minimal stress and demands. IT is not the IT field of the past. Good luck to all who are stuck in the rut….been there done that”

        • #3254642

          Not a “spring chicken”

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to BTW

          Been in the field for 12 years, current job for 8.

          I also see the SAME trends happening to other fields, showing me that it isn’t that IT is changing, it is the world markets that are changing.

          Now that all the people that have wanted this global economy and closer ties with other countries have got their way, we find people in other parts of the world will work twice as hard for half as much.

          I PERSONALLY know of a small non-union shop that is providing parts to Delphi. They took the jobs away from union grunts and moved it down to Mexico, but that didn’t work out. They brought the jobs back up here, but gave the contract to some small shops that pay about $10 an hour compared to the $27 the pay at Delphi.

          When the Union complained, the offer was made for them to go see what they do there and agree that the union guys would put out 3/4 what the small shop is doing and the union could have the jobs back.

          The Union came back, turning it down stating they would NEVER ask their guys to work that hard.

          I know people that work there in Management, and they were really worried for a while.

          Everybody is tightening their belts.

          The ONLY reason to leave the field is if you don’t enjoy the work anymore. Don’t confuse the work with the job because half the time it is just working in a crappy place that doesn’t treat their employees well that makes all the difference.

          If I moved down to Detroit and got a job at a larger firm, I would over night get a $20K pay increase. I make enough to be comfortable, and like what I do as well as where I do it.

          I get paid to play with all the cool toys and everybody leaves me alone.

          As for my first post, I had NOTHING to go on but your first post. Looking at it, doesn’t paint anything but a broken man! Life is too short to go everyday to a place that you hate.
          Good luck.

    • #3252608

      CIO – means Career is Over

      by jjo501 ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Having spent the last 40 years in the IT field I agree with you 150%. Downsized twice in the last 4 years, and having to squeak by on consulting gigs and more demands than pay. I have switched to the accounting field (debit to the window and credit to the wall). The pay is mediocre but minimal stress and demands. IT is not the IT field of the past. Good luck to all who are stuck in the rut….been there done that

    • #3252589

      Join the crowd

      by jekoski1 ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      My advice is to go back to school and learn a software language that is in current use. You like computers just not the management part.Many employers will find out that one person cant do it all 24×7.

    • #3252587

      I’ve had the same experience!

      by mdigiuseppe ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I’ve had the same experience! In my local market which covers an area from Albany, NY to Watertown, NY and west to Syracuse, the old guys keep calling me the “Fire Department.” I’m the IT weenie they call when the “Experts” screw up their network and cost them tens of thousands of dollars. But no one ever wants to pay me. Their excuse is always that they’ve exhausted their budget on the “Experts” won’t I please help out…they’ll return the favor. Of course, they never have returned the favors.

      A few clients won’t allow anyone else to touch their network except me having learned, the hard way, that experience is usually the fundamental requirement for good technology management. But those business people are the exceptions.

      Lately, I’ve been taking small contracts in other sectors of IT that can be mapped to a career change like: Help Desk Analyst, Technical Writer, Network Administration. You’d be surprised how many temp jobs there are out there all supervised by X-Ray Crystalography Weenies with certifications up the wazoo and no common sense. They hang around me like bees on honey trying to figure out how I seem to be able to straighten their messes out. One administrator even accused me of being unfair–I wouldn’t “teach” him what I knew. Go figure.

      It’s not hard work. Mostly, their problems arise from poor planning and bad resource management. Most every younger person that I know thinks that Microsoft Operating Systems can be “optimized” and that Microsoft Server 2000 or 2003 can perform as a file server as well as an application server in a multiuser environment that exceeds fifty users. Novell is always touted as “old stuff,” and LINUX isn’t ready yet.

      I don’t know where they get their attitude. Tech Republic has been on-line for years. Doesn’t anybody read?

      What are you going to do? I’m just trying to make it to the day when I can retire and I wish that I could negotiate my career into one of a Technical writer which is something that I enjoy more anyway.

    • #3252583

      Don’t give up

      by stewart ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I know exactly where you are coming from. But your real complaint probably isn’t about I/T as much as it is about large corporations.

      Have you considered becoming self-comployed? I contracted for years and loved it. But when I worked for corporate America I became totally dissatisfied. That’s why I have decided to open a Friendly Computers franchise.

      Think about what you really want out of life and work towards that. If you love computers and like working with people, you can stay in I/T but may need to quit working for a large corporation.

      • #3252571

        Never give up

        by haas ·

        In reply to Don’t give up

        I can sympathize and relate to the story too. Having to work everyday and solve real problems everybody is very rewarding. IT is like boxing, when you are down you try to get up and fight back. I lost my Consulting IT job where I was making good money but I lost it due to outsourcing and mostly corporate greed and bad management.

        Rethink your idea and try to use the skills you learned and go solo, you make your own schedule, you deal with your own customers, and you control your own growth and destiny.

    • #3252577

      Just for study > job >.. You are Passionless

      by tzeseng ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Can’t remember where I read this from:

      A person who easily being regret or easily being bored are passionless.

    • #3252567

      Oh…Hell Yeah!!! SCS Austin

      by coreypi ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I am in full agreement with you. Ever since the dot.coms and more recent outsourcing, starting a career in IT is starting to look a bit bleak. I have been working on the same job going on 15 years now, seeing changes, not for the better and working with more with less is indeed stressful and demanding. My advice for any newcomer who is thinking about going into the IT field, make sure to have an alternative career choice other than IT, or think about going into business for yourself.

    • #3252556

      There’s IT, and then there’s IT

      by ajdrag ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Sorry, I have to weigh in on this one: There are different jobs in IT. A Systems Admin can be responsible for everything, including taking out the trash. You’re on call 24/7 including holidays and your kids birthdays. There’s a hell of a difference between sitting in a cube, writing code, or getting a contract to install/configure a router or firewall, and having the CIO or Company President standing over you, while you try to get a router, T1, or mailserver up that goes down during peak business hours. The pressure can be enormous. There are good points to the positions as well, I know. But no amount of money, unless maybe what you contractor types get, makes up for the pressure and demands of this position. And for the money….explain to your 6 year old daughter you have to leave her birthday party because a server went down… decide.

    • #3252554


      by nktobin ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      It seems that there is still a high demand for IT professionals. Houston is not the IT hub of the world. Location makes a big difference. I just completed my degree also. Though I have experience as well. Finding a job you want to do is a challenge in any field. I think there are great IT jobs out there, finding it is a different story. The overseas outsourcing frustrates me. I don’t want our positions to become like Ford employees…

    • #3252549

      IT is par for the course

      by msevelis ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Sorry you are having problems in IT, but it’s like that all over. I graduated from tech school in 1984. Back then, electronics technicians were paid very well. Today, they are a dime a dozen.
      IT was a hot field also. Since employers do not want to pay top salaries, they cry about the “shortage” of IT people. You guys go to IT school until there are too many IT people. Result: depressed wages and job dissatisfaction. I went back to school to get a BSEE. After graduating two years ago, I have yet to find a full time position. Conditions are even worse when you are 56 compared to 35-40. You still have youth on your side! mfs.

      • #3252514

        Specialize in something

        by rickky ·

        In reply to IT is par for the course

        I grduated from tech school back in 1985 and there were plenty of jobs to go around. I suddenly found myself out of a job last month and had a very rude awakening. I have always been a jack-of-all-trades in IT – working on servers, printers, firewalls, etc. Now when looking for a new job every one wants to know my specialty, what am I a true expert at.

        Not only that problem, but the wages being offered are not near what I was making. I think I know now why I was released. They will hire a new person at half what I was making.

        I guess it’s my fault for not looking ahead to see what may happen and prepare for it. You can’t just keep up, you have to find an area you truly like and concentrate on it.

        • #3252425


          by austin316 ·

          In reply to Specialize in something

          You gotta hope that the skills you are studying ON YOUR OWN TIME will be marketable in the future. Too bad they don’t give us a crystal ball when we graduate.

        • #3253610

          Crystal ball

          by nuqpowered ·

          In reply to and

          You sound like such a whiny a$$. I hope you never intend to have children. One, because they’ll never learn how to survive in the real world, like yourself. Two, because you weren’t given a “crystal ball” on how to raise them. How could you POSSIBLY raise kids without having this crystal ball or a manual to guide you? You’re the kind of person that has had to have their hand held through everything in their life, right?
          The world and/or America doesn’t OWE YOU a job! Companies aren’t in the business of employing people, they’re in the business of making money and lots of it and more than they made last year. If you can’t provide what they need, you’re going to be tossed aside and they’re going to call me because I WANT the job and I want to take it from you! Whoever “you” are. I could be anybody out there. I don’t give a damn what you do, what will happen to your family when you get fired for being a sniveling baby and I don’t care if you ever work again…I want your job. THAT, my friend, is how the job market is. I lived in Afghanistan for a year as contractor. Tell them your problems and see what you get.

      • #3252502

        Think twice about leaving a field

        by dawuf ·

        In reply to IT is par for the course

        My husband has master’s degree in bio-chemical engineering. He is 50. Prior to getting the MS he worked as chemcial engineer before a slump hit the field. After graduating with the MS there were no jobs forthcoming. So needing to work he got a teaching certificate. When I got a IT job in a different city 8 years ago, he gave up teaching (poor pay) and has been trying to get back into engineering ever since. He is even “Chairman” of the state Associaion of Chemical Engineers.

        He has been working in call centers for the past 5 years. He has had “NO” interviews in the past 8 years. He decided and has applied for teaching certificate in this state. Now that the state is raising teachers salaries he figures he can make at least 20,000 per year more than he does in a call center and it is not as mind numbing work but it is not what he really wants to do.

        Having related his story, the chemical field has not changed that much since he got his bachelors save, of course, working more with computers and YES he has kept up in this area. IT changes constantly. If he cannot re-enter the field, you might want to think twice about leaving your field. Make sure your Exit strategy involves a field that will be in high demand and one you can finish out until retirement. If you can stay in a position do so, re-entering that field or starting a new field is next to impossible especially when you aren’t a 20 something.

    • #3252547

      15 Years and Still Loving it.

      by snicely ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I love what I do, and I cant think of anything else I would like to do. I love the learning, not hate it. I love the constant challenge, and I consider myself very good at what I do. As for experience, I cant imagine that ever becoming a detrement. At my previous job, I replaced a tech that “hated” the IT field but he staied in the field because that was all he knew. What a shame to feel like that. Most of the excitement of the job for me is getting to play with the latest and greatest “toys” and getting paid to do that. Yes you have to have a talent for IT–solving problems–but you also need a good attitude towards “constant learning.” Computers were my hobbie, now my profession. Its great to feel this way about my job.

      • #3253515


        by cjlutz ·

        In reply to 15 Years and Still Loving it.

        I feel the same way. I love what I do. I love all the new toys and working for a company that is willing to spend the money to stay up with technology. I love the learning too.
        I’ve been in the computer field since ’78 (think CPM and S-100) and I’m constantly reinventing myself. Currently, I’m an IT manager but I’ve been an Electronic engineer, computer technician, Computer store owner and service manager(20 years) and Network services manager. In January, I posted an available position for network administrator on Monster. We received 60 responses and about 8 were well qualified for the position. One gentleman had 5 years experience with his current employer. I considered that a plus. People who had a healthy, can-do attitude and an interest in continuing education were high on my list. Those who answered ‘I would take additional classes if my job required it’ were pretty much ruled out. I don’t want an individual working for me that wants to sit on their education. Thats not the kind of field this is. If you don’t realize that when you get into it, too bad. Don’t cry on my shoulder. I’ve got too much progress to make 🙂

      • #3252045

        I agree…..for the most part

        by psifiscout ·

        In reply to 15 Years and Still Loving it.

        I have been in IT for 8 years and I do love the work and as you say playing with the new toys, but I refuse to take it on as a “profession”. That is not to say that I view the work as unimportant, but like you computers are my hobby as well as my “bread and butter”, but when I think of the job as “work” it loses it’s appeal. When I was in the Army I was always pressed with the idea of “professionalism”, but I looked at the Army as more “fun” than a “profession”, that way it remained enjoyable…the work anyway. The only bad part about IT as well as the Army is dealing with the “hard headed idiots” among those you have to deal with. Computers are fun because they rarely bitch and argue, unlike some of the people I have run into in my careers. The one thing that makes dealing with the difficult people, is the fun of the work that the job offers.

    • #3252542

      Does anyone else think…

      by camainc ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      …the design of this discussion board sucks?

      • #3252421


        by austin316 ·

        In reply to Does anyone else think…

        I agree

        There used to be a “print all” button where you could view all the posts at once. There’s plenty of knowledgable people here though.

      • #3103422

        Yes. Oh yes.

        by snak ·

        In reply to Does anyone else think…

        It really is dire isn’t it? It takes too long to follow a thread. I would like to profer opinions on most of the topics listed (yes, it’s a great place to interact with other IT professionals) but if I spent as much time here as is neccessary to get fully involved, I’d not get anything else done at all. And whilst I’m on a moan – do the site owners delay the appearance of the discussion headers to make absolutely sure you suffer the main advert for as long as possible, like just not quite long enough to think ‘sod it’ and go elsewhere?

    • #3252541

      Welcome to the real world

      by a. admin ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Does life owe you something, or what?

      Rare is the job (although I’m sure there are some out there) that doesn’t require effort, especially if you want to be good at it and advance.

      As well, unfortunately, this is not our fathers’ workplace. The realm we deal with is far different than it was even 10 years ago, and it’s by no means restricted to our field or any particular industry (ask, or example, a worker at the Ford Motor Company, or take a look in your local hospital at how many foreign-born doctors there are [btw, good on ’em for working hard and becoming doctors]). The economy is more global than ever, leading to outsourcing in so many areas. More is being done with less. Lots of jobs are becoming obsolete and are falling by the wayside, as heretofor undreamed of new jobs are being created. Information is being generated at a pace that’s down-right dizzying, leading us to always be studying, or risk falling behind. Shall I go on?

      So, buck up. No one said life would be easy. If someone told you that, and you believed him/her, I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you.

      • #3252536


        by richard.dunning1 ·

        In reply to Welcome to the real world

        How much for the bridge?

        • #3252533

          re: quote

          by a. admin ·

          In reply to quote

          If ya gotta ask …

      • #3252435

        ” The economy is more global than ever” but who wants to live there

        by dawuf ·

        In reply to Welcome to the real world

        Globalization may raise the standard of living in some countries, but in others it lowers it. The problem here is, I don’t see prices coming down on basic essentials in countries where the wages are lowered. It cost more now than ever to keep a roof over your head. By buying into to this you are sanctioning a new guilded “age” where robber barons use resources and dispose of them easily. Do you really think your going to be successful in this type of economy?

        Also, India has lost a lot of IT jobs to China because the salaries in India started to rise above what Corporations want to pay.

    • #3252534

      Not only that!!!

      by pooh-bear ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Not only that but after 25 years of doing doing this work, if something goes wrong with software or hardware, even if it was not anything you could have foreknown or been responsible for, you are the one who gets sued. That wouldn’t be so bad except it is less costly to settle than to go to court to defend yourself. We can’t expect a lawyer much less a jury to understand what we do, so you loose no matter what. It doesn’t take but one bad experience like that, against hundreds of satisfied customers, to turn the career into a no-win situation and not worth it. Once you touch their system, you immediately become responsible for everything, past, present and future.

    • #3252527

      For some of us….It’s in our nature…

      by armandocanales ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I find myself agreeing w/U cuz my experience has been
      similar & I must say I need to choose my words carefully here before I continue….

      I have been accused of being too harsh in these forums cause I feel some times that’s what it takes to get a point across to some people…

      That being said…”I be’s good Massah!”

      I am now 45 years old w/no certifications….Used to be able to get jobs just cuz one of my clients could say…”This guy’s guuuuhd” Graduated Texas A&M 1985 w/BSET in Electronics, & Minors (20 or more hours) in Technical Illustration, Computer Graphics & Math. I have a proven 20 year track record in problem solving/troubleshooting & helping “small” companies become “medium” sized companies but that doesn’t seem to count for anything anymore….
      How do you put that on a resume’?.

      It has become an IT death sentence….

      At this point in my life I reeeeeaaaaally enjoy sitting across a Cherrywood/Mahoghany desk w/a recruiter named “Bradley or Ashley or Tiffany” 20 years my junior & listen to them tell me…
      “Dude, you have a lot of experience, but it’s all in the past!”

      Or better yet, chatting w/the CIO of a company who looks at my resume’ & asks why I can’t seem to keep a job….
      & I have to explain to him the concept of “Project Work”

      It’s what I do…I solve problems….& I’ve been doing it for 20 years…& I’m good at it….& projects end….

      But you’re right…I’m getting tired of seeing that surprised look on their face when I ask them: “Where’s your backups”? Or when I hear:…”You’re charging me how much?”….

      I just reconstructed a database that saved your company’s ass from going under due to lost Invoices/Transactions for the last quarter cuz UR cousin undercut my price by $20 on the server I just spent 10 hours reviving….(Cheap PS fan)…….really!…

      Do you have any idea what it takes to figure out that an Autocad Entity/Object is 40 bytes long…in binary…the hard way?…Can U read EDI data in Hex & tell me why the transaction didn’t go thru? (UR Company was mis ID’d & the server didn’t recognize)…Can you read the sector pointers on the PowerPoint Presentation “someone” deleted & reconstruct it by the board meeting on Friday? Try reading a PostScript file & tell UR Printer why his Linotype doesn’t understand & won’t spit out a plate…by deadline….

      and somehow I’m the bad guy in this scenario….& now U have a problem signing my check? I’ve gotten reeeeaaaallly tired of it…

      I have to admit, it is getting harder for me to find work at my age in the IT field. No one wants to give you a chance & no one wants to pay you for twenty years experience….

      Apparently everone knows someone who will give it a shot fer cheaper, & I won’t work for free…

      Ultimately, my problem is….I still love it…I love to solve problems that no one else seems to be able to figure out.. For some of’s in our nature…I love the challenge… I love getting under the hood of cars & computers…and I love to make the lightbulb go off in other people’s heads…I used to love being able to hear a client say “So & so said this was impossible!” and my response was:
      “Watch me!”

      I’m older now and I still learn faster than anyone I know…and I’ve been doing it for 20 years…Who’s self-help guru’s book am I supposed to consult to help me phrase that in a resume’? Makes it that much harder to walk away….Just cuz I’m in my 40’s….

      Can change yersef’, Caint change dem!…Good luck…just tryin tah hep’…AC

    • #3252526

      Stress is you, not the job

      by reconlabtech ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Stress is a sympton of your reactions to your environment and your inability to control, handle or manipulate it.

      You are going to find stress everywhere you go if you don’t learn how to recognise what you have control over and what you don’t have control over.

      That said, since you have burned yourself out trying to control the IT environment, you really should take a break and try to learn some valuable skills in recognising what causes stress for you and how to mitigate it. Otherwise you are going to find yourself in the same boat again.

    • #3252525

      Help for moving ahead…

      by eggy ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!


      Thanks for your comments. Like so many others I’ve had similar feelings at times.

      I’ve made some progress to improve things for myself (IE – my outlook-on, and management-of my IT career), and am interested in improving further. I’m interested to know if others would like to work together to exchange ideas and help each other (in a less public format).

      If so please post and we’ll see where things lead.


    • #3252513

      Not my experience

      by gkiss ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Too bad that you had this experience, but then I guess IT wasn’t your karma. I’ve been it it 18 years and still love it. I see it as challenging, interesting and later on I can get on teaching or training…Good luck!

    • #3252503

      Darwinism at it’s finest!

      by nuqpowered ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I’m a firm believer in Darwinism, natural selection, only the strong survive…etc. It’s takes more than just studying and experience to make it in this field. Apparently you don’t know how to market yourself or maybe you just can’t retain what you learn on the job. I’ll bet I’ve learned more in 6 yrs than you have in 20+. Why? Because I want it more than you do. I’m not a quitter and I refuse to settle for mediocrity. Thanks for quitting though; that leaves more room for someone who’s not a big pu$$y, who’s “hungry” and can handle a little stress. BYE!

      • #3252411

        have fun!

        by austin316 ·

        In reply to Darwinism at it’s finest!

        You’re wrong on all counts. I have more experience in this field than you do and I bet I’ve done more in the past TWO years than you have in your SHORT 6 year career.

        Hope you don’t end up burned out or unemployed someday like many of the 40 or 50 somethings that have posted here. Spend a couple more decades in this career and then your opinion may be worth something.

        • #3252381

          Do what you do best – QUIT!

          by nuqpowered ·

          In reply to have fun!

          I sure hope I don’t find your resume, or anyone else’s like yours, on my desk someday. You obviously don’t have the skills or drive to make it in this world, much less a competitive market like IT. I heard they’re hiring greeters at Walmart. On second thought, you’d have to show up everyday….wouldn’t want you to get burned out. 6 yrs-70k-Network Systems Engineer…not bad huh? I even spent a year in Afghanistan to get ahead. What have YOU done to improve yourself?

        • #3253530

          listen jack

          by austin316 ·

          In reply to Do what you do best – QUIT!

          You have no idea what I’ve done to pay my dues. I’m not one of those kids who went away to school for 4 years to party and expect everything to be handed to me. I WORKED full time while I was going to school, the crappiest shifts imaginable, for quite a few years. I’ve BUSTED MY ASS, beyond the call of duty for my previous employers and they would confirm that! I’ve done MANY things to improve myself. Perhaps YOUR next self improvement project should be to take a Dale Carnegie course and learn how to improve your communication skills (and stop making assumptions). With your ROTTEN, IMMATURE attitude, you have no business being a manager.

          BTW I’ve had PERFECT ATTENDANCE at my previous two jobs. Can you say the same?

        • #3253498

          Listening JACKOFF

          by nuqpowered ·

          In reply to listen jack

          HAHA!! Perfect attendance? BIG DEAL! I used to get a sticker when I did that in elementary school. I see your mentality. “But boss, I had perfect attendance. Why can’t I get a raise or promotion?!” How about drawing up a new way to backup your systems software to save bandwidth and storage space? How about coming up with something to offer than “perfect attandance”?? That’s pathetic man!

          My only “attitude” is that whiny, pu$$ies don’t deserve to have a job. Companies are NOT in the business of employing people, they’re in the business of making money. They want people who love their field of work and continually try to improve themselves. You have to be willing to change with the times and PROVE you DESERVE to get that paycheck they’re handing you every 2 weeks. Again, you don’t deserve a job, it’s not your right, you have to earn it.
          Go teach….you can be a lazy ass and spit out the required curriculum, assign some homework and never be expected to improve yourself….perfect for you. If you want to work hard, put forth some effort, stay in the IT world or something like sales. This is the kind of industry where if you work harder/smarter than the other guy, you will be rewarded.

          BTW…I’m not a manager and I don’t want to be. I’ve worked harder than my peers and I’ve been rewarded handsomely for it. I went from PC tech to systems engineer in less than 6 yrs.
          I have perfect communnication skills. It’s one of my strong points….and so is candor….I call it like I see it. Look at the other posts, almost of them basically say you’re being a pu$$y.

        • #3253429


          by transplantguy ·

          In reply to Listening JACKOFF

          Let’s see, Nuq, it took you six years to “mature” to your current position of “systems engineer” (which is what a six-year PC tech is then titled with, though at my company, we MOVE guys ahead in two or they’re gone). But of course, you’re “not a manager and I don’t want to be”, as you say. As far as perfect communication skills, well, I’d rather not go there, but instead allow others to read your post again for their own judgement on your “communication skills”.

          Attitude, grammer, language, etc. are clearly at a level of the six-year-PC-tech-who-will-eventually-be-promoted-to-systems-engineer. You appear to have little to no drive, other than the drive to criticize.

          My company retains their techincal staff in large part because we stimulate their creative desires to learn. We insist on them taking classes, not so much for certification’s sake but grow them into better technicians. As they learn more, they WANT to learn more, and seeing that growth exists in other areas of our company seems to encourage them to stay, rather than become complacent and fall behind. Nuq, your job is one that many companies are now sending across the pond, especially since your willingness to sit still appears to be cast in stone. I hope that’s not the case, but I wouldn’t take it out on Austin316 until you’ve had the experience (both in time and effort) that he’s had. And, oh yes, do you actually have a life outside of work? We like to see that, too, since it indicates an ability to communicate with others of one’s own species, and not just techies.

          Come back to this forum when you’ve experienced adult carereer life for more than six years, Nuq. I’ve seen your type; I don’t hire them, but I’ve seen them!

        • #3091314

          Reply To: I’m DONE with the IT field!

          by nuqpowered ·

          In reply to Gee…

          I’ll take your reply with a grain of salt because you don’t know me at all.
          “You appear to have little to no drive, other than the drive to criticize.”

          This stmt was incredibly ridiculous considering everything I’ve done in my life and that I AM doing right now. Let’s talk about drive. I’ve moved ahead not just in title, but in skill set. I only have 6 yrs experience because right out of college, I was an investment advisor (3.5 yrs), but I hated it. It was boring. So I made the move to IT. I started out not knowing sh!t and I didn’t like that. I moved past the other techs/admins by studyng my butt off every night. I took crappy consulting jobs to pad my resume. I took courses at a training school for 2 yrs in many different areas, mainly MCSE stuff. I built an entire comp lab in my home to get the necessary hands-on training with systems (Windows servers) and networking (routers, switches). I learned how to build/configure them inside and out, backwards and forwards. I bought books to continue to hone my skills and challenge my weaknesses to make myself smarter and more valuable than the other guy. I poured my heart and soul into my career. In ’04 I went to Afghanistan for a year to design and build a CENTCOM classified network with one other engneer. The 2 of us planned, designed and built everything from the ground up – bare metal. They don’t send stupid techies for projects like that my friend. When I came back last year I enrolled at a university to pick up another degree (BS in Network Engineering). I’m now attending classes 2 nights a week, while working full-time an hour away from home. I proved myself at every level along the way from Tech (reparing computers) -> Admin (creating accounts and silly stuff) -> Network Systems Engineer. I’m also studying for my CCNP. I get no less than 10 calls per week from recruiters trying to pull me away to another contract. I don’t care about staying with a company and being promoted. If you like that ok, do what you want to do. I personally go after the next challenge, I don’t wait for “something to happen” and simply hope life will hand me more money or a better job. My wife and I also own 2 highly successful franchises by the way. I won’t go into salary, unless you’d like to keep pushing and thinking youve got me all figured out. Yes, I’m brash and full of candor.
          My wife and I are both busy, especially during tax season, but it’s our little sacrifice right now while we take care of business for our future. We have time to get together and I play league sports twice a week and run in the evenings. If you don’t like my candor, that’s ok. I work hard, play hard and get the job done. I don’t pull any punches, especially with whiny babies that feel they DESERVE a job, rather than trying to EARN it.
          So tell me, what have YOU done in the last 6 yrs to get ahead?!

          “If you do what you’ve always done, don’t be surprised when you get what you’ve always gotten”

        • #3285856

          Do What Yo Do best – Criticise! – Your Time’s commin’!

          by armandocanales ·

          In reply to Do what you do best – QUIT!

          When they take you…& take you they will…
          be sure to post a pic of that surprised look on your face..We’ll all enjoy it..LOL


      • #3090726

        And you’re a fine example of humanity…

        by hypnotoad72 ·

        In reply to Darwinism at it’s finest!

        Pity you’ll qualify along with the rest of us when time comes for you to beg for unemployment.

        Assuming they don’t dismantle that too. 🙁

        BTW: The “Pu$$y” and other comments really don’t suit you either. Did you really start learning PCs at age 4?

        • #3285784

          Nug should be booted out of here

          by brian.kiser ·

          In reply to And you’re a fine example of humanity…

          Not only are his comments completely unhelpful, his bragging isn’t very impressive and his comments could easily be taken as sexual harrassment in this day and age. I get the impression he is young and doesn’t yet know how to conduct himself in a business setting.

    • #3252495

      Good decision

      by cnet5 ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I think that you, at least, realize the fact and make a good decision. The IT career is not hot any more when any one can get MCSE very easy. If you move to the another field, it might be a good decision.

      • #3252482

        Re: Good decision

        by nuqpowered ·

        In reply to Good decision

        That’s BULL! With the new testing methods, there’s not many “paper MCSE’s” anymore…at least in the last 2-3 yrs. The exams are very difficult and there’s 9 of them to get your MCSE. If you can walk in and pass even 2-3 of those exams without studying, you DESERVE the money ’cause you’re special. You MUST have hands-on experience to get your MCSE anymore. CCNA as well.

      • #3105451

        MCNE not that easy

        by richard ·

        In reply to Good decision

        it took me 2 weeks… 🙂
        If I had to work on windows server every day I would leave the field also.
        there’s nothing wrong with making money, I truly am looking around. the IT field is not hot anymore.
        through the 90’s there was rapid growth. If you thought that would last, well I guess you were inexperienced. Most business does not care about IT any more then what they absolutly have to do.
        IT is almost always overhead, business doesn’t want it they need it. They buy what they have to.
        There is no security and may be no future.
        The labor laws continue to erode in our conntre (USA) and most workers are too yong to really understand what unions have given the american worker. Most of the rest are too stupid to know.
        so hey, if you find a better way, take it and don’t hesitate. Just remember the rules will still be the same. It will most likely suck also.

    • #3252492

      I am starting to agree

      by michaeltock ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I have spent more than four years of studying my ass off also, recieved the degree a year ago, and cannot find a job. It has cost me alot of money and time for this field. I am no where. This IT is nothing but a big money making racket for the book makers, the schools, the test sites for certification. It is great for the people from India, China, and the Middle East, they come here to work. I guess to be an American means nothing these days, only the bottom line counts.

    • #3252488

      Agree with career move, but not why you think

      by chiefttimby ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I have been in IT for 8+ years and it has been a pretty good ride. I have a great job in a small company that has a relaxed and friendly environment where I can enjoy all the benefits of modern living; a car to drive to work in, a nice apartment with a home entertainment system, weekends out with friends, etc.

      Unfortunately for all of us, the benefits of our modern culture, like those mentioned above, are all products of unsustainable energy resources. Within 10 years, global oil production will peak. Shortly thereafter, cheap, abundant energy from fossil fuel will be a lot harder to come by. The IT field as we know it will cease to exist as the very tools we use to do our jobs will become more and more expensive to acquire given they are all made from petroleum based products such as plastics. More importantly, priorities will shift from supporting software to scrounging for food to feed your family.

      The ‘exit strategy’ I saw one post suggest should not be developed only by those frustrated with the daily toil of IT and its trappings; we all must think of what we will be doing when gasoline tops $10 a gallon. The sooner we make the change to more sustainable existence, the better off we’ll be – and the longer we’ll last.

      • #3252454

        Reply To: I’m DONE with the IT field!

        by pickleman ·

        In reply to Agree with career move, but not why you think

        > The IT field as we know it will cease to exist
        > as the very tools we use to do our jobs will
        > become more and more expensive to acquire given
        > they are all made from petroleum based products

        Paranoid much?
        I wouldn’t worry about petroleum, because in 10 years, you’ll have been whisked away to the planet Zoltar where you won’t have a care in the world.

        > More importantly, priorities will shift from
        > supporting software to scrounging for food to
        > feed your family.

        The fact that guys like you are in the workplace just boggles my mind. You should be out there with the other conspiracy nutjobs promoting your latest doomsday book on the end of the world. You’d be much happier.

        • #3254648

          Planet Zoltar

          by chiefttimby ·

          In reply to Reply To: I’m DONE with the IT field!

          lol, I liked Battle of the Planets too.

          Personally I prefer to keep an open mind, read as much as I can from both sides of an argument and then come to a logical conclusion instead of immediately stunting discussion by tossing insults at the party who provides an opposing viewpoint.

          To break it down simply:
          Is the global supply of fossil fuels limitless?
          Where do we get 80% of our energy?
          -Fossil fuels
          Is global population/energy consumption increasing or decreasing?
          Conclusion: We will run out.

          The only question still in ferocious debate is when. Therefore, the only way I can respond to the previous post is to offer some resources so you can come to your own conclusions (even though it sounds like you already have):

        • #3253443

          Reply To: I’m DONE with the IT field!

          by pickleman ·

          In reply to Planet Zoltar

          > Conclusion: We will run out.

          Actually, the far more logical conclusion is that we will never run out, because we’ve only just barely tapped the total amount of oil in the ground. And considering the fact that within the next 20 years, oil consumption will most likely be a quarter of what it is today, I’m not worried. Within 40 years, oil will be about as valuable as cow dung. In other words, not very.

          Think about it for a minute. This planet has been here for 4.5 billion years. Think of all the oil that’s burried within it. Then consider that we’ve only been drilling and using oil for the last 100 years, and you’ll realize that it doesn’t take a Ph.D to come to the conclusion that we’ve barely even scratched the surface of the planet’s oil supplies.

          Even if we all swallowed stupid-pills and our brains were suddenly prevented from ever inventing new technologies and we became forever stuck in our current technological state and had to rely on oil for the next million years, we would still not run out.

        • #3091281

          Good point, but…

          by chiefttimby ·

          In reply to Reply To: I’m DONE with the IT field!

          I’m glad you brought up this point – it’s one that is used consistently to back the ‘don’t worry about it, there’s lots kicking around’ argument. It sounds like a logical train of thought. I would love to subscribe to it myself, if only I had not read as much as I have on the subject.

          Overlooked is a key component to the equation of oil accumulation over time vs. rate of consumption. Remember, oil comes from the accumulation of, like you say, millions of years of tiny organisms (diatoms, foraminifera, and radiolaria:
          Sure, there has been a lot. And more is being discovered annually. However, the rate at which we extract from current sources plus the rate at which we find new sources and are able to adapt technology to extract from these new sources is still eclipsed by our increasing consumption of it (

          Put it another way: let’s say the top 100m layer of a discovered oil deposit took 1 million years to accumulate. With current technology, this 100m deep layer can be extracted at a fraction of the time it took for it to accumulate. This has been clearly identified by experts throughout the energy industry.

          A few more sites to check out:

        • #3101345

          Here’s a thouht…

          by karoinaustin ·

          In reply to Good point, but…

          I’ve attached a link to an article published in October 2005. To summarize, it posits and shows some supporting information, that oil is not always the result of only organic processes, that it also results from inorganic, or chemical processes. One of the discussions involves extracting fuel from shale using high heat or extreme cooling. Not sure how much I support the possibility, but it’s an example of how little we know. Who knows what technology, science or some other process may arrive at in the next 10-15 years. How many people are still alive who were born before an airplane existed?

        • #3102480

          I’d love to read it, but…

          by chiefttimby ·

          In reply to Here’s a thouht…

          Where’s the link?

        • #3101563

          Here’s the link…

          by karoinaustin ·

          In reply to Here’s a thouht…

    • #3252481


      by too old for it ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      The best job in IT in this century is the owner of an independent coffee shoppe, with Wi-Fi access, near either a business center or a college campus. Maybe even a high school.

      12 oz. of coffee, a cup, a lid, a stir-stick, some flavored cream, a pink packet of sweetener and a sleeve to keep the customer from burning his/her fingers = 45?

      Sell for $1.50


    • #3252458

      Never should’ve started..

      by pickleman ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Based on your whining, I’m guessing the only reason you got into I.T. in the first place was because you saw the dollar signs and wanted to take part of the cash grab.

      You were most likely one of those guys who was debating between dentistry, I.T., or travel and tourism. You chose I.T. not because you loved it, but because you thought you’d be taking the easy road. I’ve seen guys like you come and go, and I never bat an eyelash. When I was in school (not for I.T.), my class was full of people who had no business being there. One guy was 48 years old, and all his life he was a janitor. Then he heard about this program I was taking and decided to jump on it. His reasons were every bit as nonsensical as I imagine yours were:
      – the government was paying for his education
      – he thought he’d spend two years in school and be offered an $80K job upon graduation
      – he had no interest in the field but wanted to “try something new”

      I’ve never known anybody in this field who has 20 years of experience and had it used against them, as you claimed. On the contrary – 20 years of experience is invaluable, but experience means nothing if at the end of those 20 years you’re still as much of a dumbass as when you started. Experience means nothing without acquired knowledge. Kill yourself 24/7? No idea what you’re talking about. I work normal hours, I love the work I do, I love the compensation, and most of all, I do it because I’m damn good at it.

      Good luck with flipping burgers…or travel and tourism…or wherever you should’ve been at from day one.

      • #3252400

        struck a nerve there, eh?

        by austin316 ·

        In reply to Never should’ve started..

        Way to make assumptions, pickleman. The truth hurts, doesn’t it?

        “I work normal hours, I love the work I do, I love the compensation, and most of all, I do it because I’m damn good at it.”

        You LUCKED OUT finding the gig that you have. Hope you don’t get laid off anytime soon.

        • #3253438

          Reply To: I’m DONE with the IT field!

          by pickleman ·

          In reply to struck a nerve there, eh?

          > You LUCKED OUT finding the gig that you have.

          I didn’t “luck out”.
          I took control of my life and made something of myself. I didn’t run around whining and bitching about how much time I spent in school and how I’m over-stressed and underpaid. I didn’t rely on luck. I simply went out there and started earning a living for myself with my natural talents and abilities. Everyone else can do the same thing.

          Some people are good painters…some are good musicians. We all have our strengths – it’s just a matter of being smart enough to identify those strengths and then making use of them, rather than letting them go to waste.

          > Hope you don’t get laid off anytime soon.

          No worries there. I’m self-employed with a broad range of clients. I started out the same as most other people: I worked for a small, crappy company making very little money and doing a lot of work. Then I moved on to a large corporation making a lot more money with a more reasonable workload. In the end, I was smart enough to realize what many other people have realized before me – that if you want to become financially independent, you won’t do it by working for someone else for the rest of your life. So I went out on my own, took my technical and people skills with me, and never looked back.

          Most people hope to retire by 65 and are scratching their heads wondering if they’ll have their meager little pensions on which to live. As for me, I’m looking at 65 and the only thing I’m wondering about is whether I’ll be spending most of my time living onboard yacht #1 or house #3.

          You can be every bit as successful or every bit as unsuccessful as you want to be. You can do it in I.T., music, or painting, or whatever else you happen to love doing. Rather than whining about how miserable your life is, you’d be far better off if you took that energy and did something worthwhile with it.

        • #3084717

          “Lucking Out”

          by codebubba ·

          In reply to Reply To: I’m DONE with the IT field!

          That’s well put, pickleman. I could not agree more.

          There is plenty of work in IT for the people who WANT to do it. The whole thing about this field that’s cool is that there is ALWAYS something new to learn and do. I can’t imagine having chosen a better field to be in. I first got into software development by PAYING to do it (buying my own equipment and tinkering with it all night!), now I’m well PAID to do it and I DON’T HAVE to work all night any more.

          It takes TIME and real interest to become an expert at ANYTHING. In my case I’ve been at this for 28 years and still enjoy it tremendously. The cool thing now, though, is that I’ve gotten to where I can work smart enough to get 4 times the work done in the same time these juniors take and get it right most of the time. No need to burn the midnight oil anymore because I’ve gotten my work done at the end of the day and enjoyed doing it.

          -CB 😉

    • #3252442

      Very demanding

      by dave63 ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I came into IT from print and admin backgrounds. Neither of these demanded that I spent all my spare time trying to keep up with advances. IT seems to be the one career which requires the most ongoing training but in fact seems to have the least! Sometimes I hate computers and everyone that uses them and like you wonder what the hell I’m doing here. Then something works and all seems rosey again…

    • #3252432

      Eat, Sleep, Drink IT!

      by howard.blake ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Dude – do I EVER know where you are coming from! I’ve been doing this hardcore since 1981 and I used to Eat, Sleep and Drink IT. But, I’m beginning to get just a little bit burned out. I have a doctor friend that noticed I had more people asking me computer questions at social events we go to than he has asking him health questions! You can’t get away from it! That and my damned cell phone!!!! My boss can’t understand why I won’t carry a Blackberry (I want to at least be able to go the john with a bit of a break from email and other garbage!). Good luck to you in whatever you do!

    • #3252419

      Stressful, yes, boring, no

      by johnofstony ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I got into full time IT work in 1978 and the only times I’ve considered leaving the field have been when I’ve been made redundant (American “been fired”). The first time I found another job in under 3 days, the second time it took 13 months before I spotted a suitable advert and got the job. The third time, aged 48, I was out for 7 months when 2 job offers arrived within 1 hour one morning. I’m still working at one of those. My philosophy is to work for small companies. They generally have a relatively small IT department (e.g. 1 person) and I find that I become a significant contributor to the success of the business and, as such, the business doesn’t want to lose me. The work is varied involving interaction with all members of staff and although the pay isn’t great, in my present job I work 2 miles from home so commuting time and costs are negligible which must be worth a few thousand a year. If you don’t enjoy IT, get out. If you do, it’s worth the relatively low pay for the pleasure of the job.

    • #3252409

      Could be worse

      by mhanratty ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      If you’re tired of the hard work, you could always get up at 4am and haul trash all day in all kinds of weather every day with no holidays.

      There are worse jobs!!!

    • #3252403

      I HOPE to be done w/IT too!

      by agpc ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I feel you brother. I have 10 yrs of IT experience and am in your same age bracket. Actually, I posted a concern in this same forum in Nov/Dec and never rec’d one frigging reply. I guess my post was not as catchy as yours. It was something to the effect of “How to Survive a Layoff”?.

      I was laid off from a Silicon Valley giant on New Year’s Eve, Dec 31st, 2002. I have been trying to rebound and survive ever since. I have had some serious f’d up temp gigs just trying to maintain. It is almost like, “Ben Hur” where one has been in a lofty status only to be plunged into the depths of servitude and subsequently trying to get your confidence back to move back into the light.

      I just recently returned to Corporate IT rather reluctantly. This ain’t no picnic. It is a carbon copy of where I worked before but it is worse as we are temps (“contractors”) who replaced ousted IT perm ee’s like most of Corporate America has wrongfully done.

      I could go on. I have analyzed/paralyzed, diced/sliced this whole situation. I am surprised I have not gone psycho. Most of the people I knew are either gone, moved away or just plain bitter.

      I wish I had a solution. I met a YSTP (Young Super Tech Pup) on a gig Fall 2004 and he opined we should all get unionized. I thought it an intriguing idea.

      So much more to add. I hope we can communicate “offline” for whatever it is worth. I want to share my contact particulars but am a bit paranoid sharing in an open forum like this. Who knows who is monitoring this? Any suggestions?

      A fellow IT soldier

    • #3252396

      Reply To: I’m DONE with the IT field!

      by mrgrumpy ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I can’t say I blame you but it may be due a a poor IT environment because there a re few IT environments that are good these days. I discourage anybody from going into IT at UNI and from what I have heard, there are going to be shortages later on down the line due to low IT enrollment.

    • #3252379

      Be Careful What you Wish For…

      by papanovember ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Having been in the IT field for 26 years now, I have seen the industry grow and shrink over the years. Before jumping ship, consider what the airline pilots are going through – mandatory retirement at age 60 – many of them have to retire because they will not get their pensions if they don’t retire as the airlines are going broke, and won’t pay the pensions of those who choose to continue to work…and if you think your job prospects look bleak…try getting a job as an airline pilot at 55 years old…
      No, right now the best price/performance career seems to be nursing…for a 2 year Registered Nurse degree you can make $75,000 a year, right out of college…no experience required. Your background in IT will only help you….
      The best solution is to go where jobs are plentiful, and your IT experience is appreciated. Best of luck with your future job.

    • #3252375

      A never ending challenge

      by sven thirion ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I’m sorry to hear that you feel that way. Obvious you have gone into the field for the wrong reasons.

      My interest in IT was sparked during my early years learning Basis and Pascal. And since then I haven?t stopped studying. IT is a constant changing field and you cannot afford to stop studying. IT challenges your intellect; it requires you to adopt, learn new things, stay on top of it. It?s fascinating! Challenging! Exciting! With other words, the ideal job! (At least for me 😉 )

      Getting a 4 year degree and expecting the money to rush in afterwards, is an unrealistic expectation; in IT as well as any other field of business. You have to constantly improve yourself; not only for yourself but for your clients as well. You have to strive to offer the best possible service, and the only way you can do that is to stay on top of the latest developments in your field, and learn, learn, learn.

      Most important thing it that you like your job as you will be spending most of your waking hour doing it. It has to be a fulfillment. Going into a certain field for the money will only lead to stress and depression. If you like what you?re doing then it will never be boring. It can sometimes still be stressful as you will face deadlines from time to time, but you?ll feel the rush of success after completion. The stress you are describing is actual frustration and this come either from lack of experience or lack of knowledge. So grab a book, book a course and learn!

      Good luck finding YOUR challenge!

    • #3252372

      Time for an industry change…

      by jerry collins ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      I think your on to something here… Think about agriculture. Many are willing to do hard work for the appropriate wage, but they got replaced by illegals who work for nothing. So are we all going to end up being replaced by educated illegal ag workers?

    • #3252369

      Become a Teacher

      by vbcodeweaver ·

      In reply to I’m DONE with the IT field!

      Those who quote the old expression “Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach” have never had a really good teacher. I don’t mean an effective teacher, I mean a teacher who can act as a mentor, who can show you things about your field that don’t get put into textbooks. After 15 years of development and consulting, I started teaching programming at the college level. This takes a job whose primary foci are moneymaking and puzzle solving to a new career where you really feel a sense of accomplishment, because you are helping improve people’s lives. Other benefits: Teaching leaves plenty of time to run side projects, I still do web development as a side business to build retirement money and stay current on topics for my classes. And also, teachers get TONS of free books, so you can stay up on new programming topics.

      • #3252352

        Walmart is hiring

        by kg70 ·

        In reply to Become a Teacher

        Low wage jobs are all that America has left. American jobs have been outsourced to countries with a lower cost of living. America is left with high living cost and no pay. America has been bought and fired by foreigners.