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Internet access on Netware 5.1 server

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by bentz

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I am in the process of pursuing DSL for a small office I support. We run a novell 5.1 server with about 5 staff members connecting to the network. The network is IP only and we have a 3 networked IP printer using NDPS. There is one hub that connects everyone together. One staff member has a 56k dialup internet account that is not shared (slow just for one person:) ). I have spoken with the phone company in regards to providing DSL service and they explained all I have to do is setup the dsl modem they send me to connect to the hub and that should provide access to all my workstations. It seems that it will take more then that but I'm just not exactly sure what. Right now I am running DHCP on the server with with dynamic ip addressing to workstations. Any help is greatly appreciated and I'll provide more info if needed. Thanks

20 replies

by pierrejamme

I have two locations that are running NetWare 5.1 with wireless NAT router as the DHCP server.
they use their windows client to access the Internet, nothing to setup in NetWare at all.
You can either give everyone access or use static Ip numbers to control who gets on. And you definitely want to set up static IP numbers for your servers an Jetdirect printers.

Actually if I remember correctly Netware 5.1 is not Internet Ip anyway, you need NW6x for that.
good Luck,

by bentz

I do have static IP's setup for my server and the printers. Now when you say that nw 5.1 is not "internet IP" do you mean the 2 servers you mentioned are nw6 after all or are they still nw5.1 servers? So the wireless router has a physical connection to the server so users can access the server while also accessing the net or is there a wireless card in the server too? Not trying to be a pain with silly questions I just want to know specifically if it can be done with the basic setup I have. Thanks.

by pierrejamme

No I am saying that their Netware 5.1 IP is not the same as internet IP. But your Netware server is not even in the loop, just that it needs to have a static IP number in the same scenario as the router. The NAT router will be giving out the Ip numbers (either 192.168.0.0 or 10.10.0.0)
By Wireless I am Talking "Line of Site Wireless to the ISP" that connects to the network Switch. It could be DSL or Cable doesn't matter.
the clients connect with Windows Internet Protocol TCP/IP.
Hope that clears it up.
Talk to your ISP it is really very basic.
Now if you want Web Access on your Netware that is an entirely different matter.

by bentz

Ok so you are saying the the DSL modem/router will act as the DHCP server not the nw server itself. I have read some other configurations on the novell site that describe using 2 nics on the server. http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/7181.html Of course this was using Novell Small business edition so not sure how much would apply to netware 5.1) It explains using one public network that connects just to the DSL Modem/router and one private (current connection) that goes to the hub. This way the private network is more secure. It was explained to enable NAT on the public network and setup dhcp to have dns refer to the DSL/Modem Ip address. Seems like more work but more secure which is fine by me. Not sure if that makes sense but I'll keep trying.

by grbeckmeyer

First off, the IP protocol has been available from NW 4.1 up, and it is the same exact protocol used by many other systems to connect to the internet, I've never heard of any proprietary IP implementations that wouldn't be compatible with standard IP, that would pretty much ruin the whole point of using IP. Now then, as far as your office, answer 2 hits the right idea. If your server itself doesn't need internet access, you should be able to connect a standard internet router (like a Linksys or Netgear) directly to your hub. You will need to turn off DHCP on the hub or your server (I would suggest turning it off on the server, no need for it to be in the loop here) and you will need to configure the scope so that your server is outside of the DHCP range, but still on the same subnet. Probably easier to change the settings on the router than changing the IP address of the server, so if your server is 192.168.0.1, change the router to something like 192.168.0.254, and set the DHCP range to 192.168.0.20-200.

Another way to do this would be to just throw a 2nd nic in the server and use it as a router, but probably simpler and less security issues to just use a cheap internet router.

by bentz

OK, after hours of configuring and reconfiguring I was able to resolve this issue. I was able to setup a router with an IP address that was part of the same subnet but outside the dhcp range. I have been using DHCP on the netware server. That was my big problem at first because of manually setting up DHCP server on novell to set the router and DNS servers correctly. I have 10 servers in different sites that are configured the same way. I would like to continue staying with a similar configuration instead of changing as much as possible. Basically I would like to continue using DHCP on the server as opposed to the DSL router. I can see a benefit to the router using DHCP if the connection goes down and the router needs a reboot and the DNS servers change no configuration changes would be needed on the server. But is there more security one way or the other? I will give you all acceptable answers for any response as you all helped me figure out the problem I just don't want to close out the question yet.

by grbeckmeyer

First off, IP is IP. I've never heard of a proprietary IP stack that won't work on the internet. If such a thing existed, it wouldn't be IP. NW 5.1 also supported IPX, maybe you are confusing the two. Anyway, IP has been available on NW since 4.1. Now then, the article you linked also applies to standard NW5.1. You could do something like option A by adding a NIC to the server and using it as your router. This would also give you internet access directly at the server. But since you don't need that, it might be easier to do a modified B option. Connect a regular internet router like a Linksys or Netgear between the DSL modem and the hub. Probably better security here, as the NW server is then strictly on the private network, not acting as the public gateway. You will need to disable DHCP on one device, perferably the server in this setup. You will need to configure the private or LAN IP on the router and also the DHCP scope to the same subnet with your server & printer. So if your server is 10.0.0.1, printer 10.0.0.2, then make your router 10.0.0.254 and make the DHCP scope 10.0.0.10 - 10.0.0.200.

by grbeckmeyer

From a network management perspective it would probably be better to leave DHCP on the server, but considering the size of your environment that's really not that big of an issue. The only reason I suggested disabling on the server and using it on the router is that the server doesn't need to be in the loop as far as providing internet access to the workstations. If you use the router for DHCP and something were to happen to your server, internet access would not be affected. The only security issues I can think of is if you are using a wireless router then disabling DHCP on the router can be a very small layer of security from wireless intrusion.

by pierrejamme

Sorry, a little misleading, I believe it was NW4x. I was thinking of Netware/Ip which was different than MS IP. In fact you had to use a SMCD server for Compatability Mode.

by pgm554

NWIP (N-whip) is encapsulated IPX in a TCP packet. This was used in NW 4.x ,5.x,and 6.x(Yes ,in some circumstances NWIP is used on 5 or 6).I knew the folks that ported it over to 5 and 6,DSI Consulting.

SCMD was just another method of encapsulating IPX in a TCP packet.
Just different mechanisms on how services get located (RIP/SAP server for NWIP and SLP for SCMD).I have implemented both.

M$ version of TCP was one of encapsulating NetBIOS. Uses WINS broadcasts as a location method (NT 4) and uses Dynamic DNS with AD.

TCP stacks are proprietary to the OS to which they are written for.
Some IP stacks are better than others in terms of how well they perform their function.

I would keep the Novell DHCP and just set it up to hand out the gateway ip address which would be the router. No big deal.
Where I could see issues down the road would be if they were to use some of the more advanced functionality of the NW services (IP print, Ifolder, Etc)

by bentz

Thanks for the background info. You recommend leaving DHCP on the server as opposed to using the DHCP on the router. I also would prefer to leave my server this way (see above response for reasons). But my question to you is also the same as to grbeckmeyer, is DHCP better served (no pun intended) on one device over the other? I will give you all acceptable answers for any response as you all helped me figure out the problem I just don't want to close out the question yet.

by magpiper

First upgrade to Novell Small Business Suite 6.5 for FREE! If you only have 5 users it won't cost anything you only pay for the first 5 users when you go beyond 5 users.

Second Netware dosen't support DSL or PPPOE connections directly, thus you will need a router. I use Linksys but NetGear or even DLINK will work for a cheap router. Pass the traffic through the router via NAT redirection or PAT to your server, depending on what services you want to provide to the outside world. Your DSL/Cable router will assign DHCP and all that. Netware has been support TCP/IP since 4.1 and since 5.0 it has been native for the NCP or Netware Core Protocol. Also some DSL modems are essentially routers. You may not need another device for routing etc.

Lastly, you can forget about having any access to applications over the WAN, there is just not enough bandwidth. Look into PCAnywhere or Citrix to provide remote access for applications, unless the apps are web based.

by bentz

Thanks for the response but upgrading is out of the question. I have 10 sites all the same and some have 15-20 users so I would prefer to keep it at 5.1. Also I wasn't looking to gain access over the lan as I already use Pcanywhere to dialin from a separate line. My question also to you like above responses is: is it better to have dhcp running on the server or the router? Trying to determine if there is better security on one or the other or should I look at investing in a firewall also?

by pepeledog

Essentially, that is correct. The DSL line will go to the modem. The other side of the modem will go to a hub/router (Linksys is good). I suggest using a real router because you get netword address translation protection for local ip addresses. Connect your current lan to the Linksys. I use cable instead of DSL. Cable is much faster.

The hub/router acts as a NAT router from your local network to the outside world. This affords some protection by translating the local network ip address to the outside ip address. Usually, the router wants to handle the DHCP settings but that can be disabled.

I would stay away from DSL. I used to have it and sometimes it would be slower than a 56KB modem.

by bentz

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately DSL is all that is available in the location need the internet service. So far it is quite fast and the users are very happy with it.

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