General discussion

  • Creator
  • #2290384

    Is THIS sexual harrassment


    by thelastword ·

    At my present job which I started two years ago, the manager has completely stereotyped me and bypassed me for everything probably because I had just come back from two years off (in school again so was a little rusty), before that I was doing great and well-respected as a developer and project coordinator at a large company. I will admit when I started this job I was a bit rusty and had been kind of hanging out with students and web designers for awhile!
    This guy has just proceeded to make a joke total out of me (and other people here too) and constantly hires contractors to do my job. Top this off with that he leers at me in these wierd ways and whenever I go into his office to discuss something serious he makes wierd sexual comments out of stuff I say like ‘how do you want it?’ becomes something else or ‘put it in’ for a program becomes an eyebrow raiser for him and stuff like that. He makes me really uncomfortable and sick actually. At one point he began stroking and rubbing his upper inner thighs and just to see if I would still continuing talking about the project. When I get distracted by it and the converstaion declines or ends, he seems quite happy with that that I never got finish what I was saying. At that point I do become ineffective in the conversation. I think he even percieves this that I am attracted to what he was doing. Then too, just yesterday, in another attempt to have a conversation about my career as I have sat at the desk with NOTHING for four months now (I sit there and write Java apps for my own benefit!!!) when I was talkign to him, sure enough he started stroking his lips and looking at me funny. I kind of made a face at it and tried to continue but it really lets you know where his head is at with listening thats for sure.
    He then has slammed me in my review that I have no communcation skills but whenever I try and discuss something he does this belittling wierd creepy stuff and doesnt listen.
    I have over ten years experienece as a developer, a degree in computer science and now another technical diploma, I have good references. I am also a female and an artist, pretty good looking I guess, maybe this throws him off. The deal is that this is an institution so they don’t have a need for project deadlines or anything else, plus this guy can do whatever he wants and has limited accountability, ie. old boys club that reaches the top really quickly. The stunts he has pulled with assignments and skills have been unbelievable.
    It is the most miserable humiliating nightmare I have ever experienced and it is happening at a really bad point in my career when I am just needing to get my skills happening again. His latest trick is to purposely give me as menial assignments as possible just for the fun of it. I’d actually like to punch his lights out.He’s like this short stubby dude with big puffy sideburns, he is only a few years older than me in reality but I would never go out with him for real. I would rather have someone pound him out in the parking lot!!!This is not a joke though at all. In the meantime while I am sending out as many resumes as I can, my skills are hanging on by a thread. I am taking classes at night now compensate. It is quite awful plus I’m a single mother which is adding more stress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I feel this is a case of sexual harrassment in a way or something.

All Comments

  • Author
    • #2709987

      Go to HR pronto

      by wordworker ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      Sounds like an open and shut case of sexual harrassment if not discrimination. Seek help with HR. Maybe a lawyer.

      • #2709979

        HR is scared of them also

        by thelastword ·

        In reply to Go to HR pronto

        Well, the HR office here is really ODD too. They are all connected together personally. I would have no pull there. There is no accountability here. Period. The funding comes from the government. The doors are closed and thats the deal. I have talked to the MLA. I have talked to the union about the contracting practise -that might lead to something. Stirring up ____ here will lead to me losing my job and facing this guy in the Human rights court whilst struggling on EI. So I have to get another job first. I am doing everythign I can to that end. The thing that it is so wierd that this has happened in this sneaky way to the point where I sis not even really recognize it.I guess I have worked with such normal people and technical people you wouldn’t even dream of a situation like this until you find yourself in a new old fashioned place in the bowels of some old rotten institution. WHo KNEW people still had the nerve to act like this!!!?? Nonetheless he has dragged me down into this somehow and it is making its mark on my career so it is serious(for now). But believe me I have loaded the stakes on all sides from the union to everything else, I bring a tape recorder to work, I document everything. But what a drag. I think this is an open shut case. I’m not sure which is why I am posting I guess. I want another job and then I will look at it in detail. I would never survive working here and taking him to court at the same time though as I have to be as sharp as I can in case I get an interview.

        • #2709977

          another thing …

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to HR is scared of them also

          If you have an employee assistance program, please contact them and speak with a counselor. This type of harrassment can be very difficult to get over and can be damaging to your self-esteem. I had a similar situation 10 years ago and it took a while before I got over it. The other thing to remember, is if you DO look for another job, don’t mention this as the reason. It’s horribly unfair, but it will send up red flags to a potential employer. They’ll look at you as a liability. It sucks, because it is a case of punishing the victim, but it happens. If I were you, I’d get out as soon as you can, cut your losses, the abuse is not worth the job.

        • #2709973


          by thelastword ·

          In reply to another thing …

          This is true, at first I was feeling so HORRIBLE That I was messing up contacts with companies cause I couldnt hide it. I wasnt exactly sure at that point as to what and why (as I said I have been off for awhile so this timing was bad). BUT NOW I realize, that I am not going there. How have I helped myself? By calling my old references and old employers and getting back that old feeling again, I do anything I can. Now I pretend I am just coming from my last job abd don’t let this negativity enter into any conversations. THis is not easy but I am doing it and crossing my fingers.

        • #2709971

          Why would someon=e do this

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to True

          I just cant figure out why someone would do this, it must be because he thinks I like it or something. I mean its bizarre

        • #2709965

          I believe

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to Why would someon=e do this

          That a man who behaves that way, fears and hates women, and by way of their abusive behavior, they feel they can control the feelings they have. I think it is weak and cowardly. Not for a minute do I believe it is innocent behavior, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. It is not your fault in any way. This behavior is reprehensible and should be stopped.

          When this happened to me, the VP of IT was fired after I took my complaints to HR. I felt horribly guilty for that for a while, but in retrospect, I didn’t do anything to him. He did it to himself and his family.

        • #2709949


          by thelastword ·

          In reply to I believe

          that is incredible that you did that!!!!!
          That took alot !!!

        • #2709946

          Not Really

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to I believe

          I didn’t have a job when I left the company and it took me a while to recover from that. It wasn’t so much bravery, it was more that I couldn’t stomach coming in even one more day. If I had to do all over again, I would have found another job before leaving and I would have confronted the situation much sooner. I was there for a little over three months, and it was day in and day out abuse.

        • #2709941

          Thanks so much

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to I believe

          I really appreciate this input, it actually is helping. Normally a computer thread wouldn’t really help me but this has been pretty good. Yes this has gone on and on and on, just unbelievable. I think I feel even worse about it then I am letting on. If i didn’t have to stay here I NEVER would have but I have had to because of the timing and because I have to have the money. This thread has helped me though because I’m quite sure I have pinpointed the problem directly, this takes it all off of me but still leaves me feeling pretty bad that it has happened. I am positive I will end this situation at the first opportunity and he will not make any more comments or gestures to me without getting a direct response. I am going to call it for what it is and say right then and there to him that I knwo what he is doing and am totally uncomfortable with it and I want him to stop it or I will report it.

        • #2709966


          by thelastword ·

          In reply to another thing …

          Are you a female that went through this?

        • #2709963


          by maecuff ·

          In reply to Question


        • #2709920


          by jkaras ·

          In reply to HR is scared of them also

          I am sorry to hear about your harrassment. If you are going to protect yourself you cant just tape a conversation without two party consent. He needs to be aware of the taping, that way it isnt inadmissable in court. The trick is to hit the record buttonand place it on his desk while pretending to take notes. As he begins to question what’s this all about, you reply “I’ve taken to heart your observation on poor communication skills from my review. I feel I need to use this to insure that I properly understand your expectations on my performance. Once I have listening down pat I can continue to work on my verbal communication.” At this point he is put on the spot with the tape recorder running forced to give a positive response, failure to comply gives him liability. If he refuses the offer that you would like a person of your choice to witness the exchange since the company has an open door policy that works in conjunction with labor laws, favor Susie. Before this you should spend $20-$50 on a consultation with an attorney it will be money well spent that it documents a pre-existing problem and get the proper advice for your state which I assume is California. I used to live there in Stockton for years and know you have more rights than I do here in Florida. Go luck.

        • #2709561

          Yes this is great

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to ok

          Well, you know what I’m pretty sure only ONE person has to consent to a taped conversation here but that is a question for a lawyer which I wish I had and just havent found one or looked for one yet. I heard that you can tape, you just cant tape two people without them knowing it. Ie. I can’t leave a tape recorder in his office to tape him talking to other people/

        • #2709559

          Rules of evidence vary

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Yes this is great

          from jurisdiction, so make sure you check out a local lawyer. I believe in Ontario only one party needs to be informed, but I haven’t followed every change in the law.

          I do know that many Pocket PC PDAs have voice recording…..and you can record whil making notes.


        • #2709557

          I have already taped him

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Rules of evidence vary

          I have taped him but the one I will tape is the one where I confront it. That’ll be the kicker.

        • #2709362
          Avatar photo

          That’s the SPIRIT!!!!!

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to I have already taped him

          Instead of constantly being on the defensive go on the attack. High-side the mongrel and don’t think twice about it!


        • #2709363
          Avatar photo

          While that is correct here

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Yes this is great

          You would have to check with a lawyer on the legality of this but most places provided you are party to a conversation it is perfectly all right {read that as Legal} to tape it without the other person/s knowledge.

          But if you must let the other person know that you are recording the conversation instead of using a tape recorder use a video camera and use the excuse that you are so incapable of understanding him that you need visual instructions. At the very least it will stop his stupidity and the beauty is that you don’t even need to have a tape in the thing after the initial confrontation. Play on this fools opinion of you.

          While I personally think the other person is incorrect in their opinion of this persons behavior I really don’t think he hates women but more likely sees you as a threat to his position so he is effectively neutering you by his behavior which he has obviously spent time in finding out what adversely affects you. But instead of running to others and getting them to fix your problems do it for your self if nothing else it empowers you and is far better than any form of therapy in getting over this fools behavior.


        • #2709309

          I dunno..

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to While that is correct here

          If you view a person as a threat, there are other ways of handling that threat than sexual harrassment, which is clearly the case here. I stand by my assessment that the guy is a misogynist.

        • #2710524
          Avatar photo

          Totally Correct Mae

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to I dunno..

          But here we are dealing not with a mature adult but more like a spoilt child who knows no better. He’s obviously got away with this type of crap for many years if not all his working life and was most likely subject to something similar when he was lower down the food chain.

          As the original poster here says it isn’t just her but almost everyone where she works ethnic groups and the like from memory. But in her case he has chosen this type of despicable behavior to wards her most likely because it pushes her buttons and gets the desired results that he craves. While I’ve never personally been subject to this type of treatment myself I have seen in from the outside it happen particularly in Government Work Areas long ago. You get someone with a little power and they think they are GOD and act accordingly but in actual fact they are just off the bottom of the food chain as well but they seem to think that they have the power and right to act this way so they do. Personally I’d deck the bastard but then again I’m a mad Aussie and I wouldn’t be concerned with the consequences but I would pick my time when he had no wittinesses around to make my life harder.

          Now in this case that isn’t a possible action {which makes things far worse} but what you have to do if you’re staying there is study the fool and find his weak points and then proceed to exploit them but in a totally professional manner so you are never sinking to his level.


        • #2717701


          by gsg ·

          In reply to HR is scared of them also

          Before getting another job, contact the ACLU. Contact HR first, then, if they do not address the issue, and/or fire you, contact the ACLU. They will usually help cover legal fees. If you are fired, then based on what you have here, you will probably never have to work again. Good Luck!

        • #2717105

          What do you mean by that?

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to ACLU

          Thanks for your comment, what do you mean by that though as in ACLU first of all and can you expand on your oppinion as to the legal claim?

    • #2709978

      This is harrassment

      by maecuff ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      Keep a notebook and document each incident, including date and time. Tell him that he makes you uncomfortable (not easy, but necessary) when he continues (and he probably will) you have a very strong case against him.

      • #2709976

        Good Advice

        by thelastword ·

        In reply to This is harrassment

        I think I will do that as the ‘incidents’ are adding up. At first I kept thinking it was my imagination but then yesterday I could NOT believe it happened AGAIN. And now I am working up to saying something!!! TO him, to his boss, to whoever, it may come out in a big way!!! But that probably isnt the best way to do it. When my review comes up and he goes to roast me on my review I will write a nice written comment detailing his actions. Similarly next time I go talk to his boss I am going to reveal that there is a sexual nature to his behavior and tell him maybe…?

        • #2709961

          Good Plan..

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to Good Advice

          But I’d have another job lined up first. You’ll be putting yourself on the line, but for the sake of your sanity, you can’t continue on like this.

        • #2709950


          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Good Plan..

          Thanks for the feedback. I have no inhibitions about putting myself on the line at this point I would be so glad to be out this situation I will do anything. I am waiting for a call right now but I can barely stand it. I never thought anything could be so intolerable. I can’t comprehend how this person must go about his day like this. I have worked for some really excellent companies with some great people who in hindsight now look REALLY good.Luckily I have had that experience so I know things can and should be a lot better. I guess to him this is how they operate and he is comfortable carrying on like this. I have found the whole thing really disturbing and I wish it would just be over and I hope it will be soon. The thing is is that if I get into a better situation I will probably just want to write it off, would I have the energy to pursue it after all has been said and done and bring this up again. Something like that could even backfire on me again. It would just be really irritating too if he got away with it. I mean its no sweat off his back but he has really put me through some misery.

        • #2709357
          Avatar photo

          This is IMPORTANT!!

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Thanks

          If you do leave forget it totally DO NOT PURSUE IT!! You need to get away into a real life and pursuing this any further will only keep you where you are as a VICTIM which is something that is not necessary. It is always better for your health to get on with life rather than to dwell on the past.


        • #2709306


          by thelastword ·

          In reply to This is IMPORTANT!!

          I wont pursue it unless it costs me monitarily, ie.; he fires me or something, and similarly I am not going to take to the human rights as a way of emotionally healing so much as to just make sure justice gets done and noone else gets exposed. How I do it will depend on how bad he screws me. RIght now I am lookign for another job and thats fine. If he lays me off, thats a different story. IF there is no monetary gain in it, as in if I have a new jonb so cant collect on lost time. Then its a matter of personal interest. I have to be pretty far away from it to pursue it. ie. if i move back to Vancouver or something I guess.
          I do want the personal satisfaction of confronting and I will have that in my own unorthodox way as I have a way of making each conversation with him become more open so that his behavior is next on the list of topics and I will do it in a way that I find humorous and it will become open conversation where we can joke as to whether he is going to do it or what he is going to do next, I will take it right to the personal extreme with him I have no problem with that, he has no idea who he is dealing with believe me!!!!! I can make him look like a total idiot.

        • #2710522
          Avatar photo

          There’s always the good old faithful ways

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Definitely

          Of leaving unwashed panties {something like a G String you know the type of thing} and condoms in his car buried under a seat for his wife or kids to find.

          I have a mad mate who gets a couple of cubic yards of gravel or something similar delivered to someones house at 5.00 am in the morning and blocks the driveway with 10 cubic yards of the stuff and then leaves the bill for the person involved to collect. He’s not the type to upset but is good for a laugh when you watch him in action.

          While I’m not on the spot so to speak what you have to do is study the guy and works out what makes him tick that way you can work out how to attack when it suits you. But always maintain your professionalism no matter what never sink to his level.

          Things like this are best served when not expected so provided you’re not adversely impacted upon financially find out the best way to cause maximum disgrace but in no way being tractable to you. The Kiddy Porn angle is the best one possible as it is impossible to defend against and only the inference is required. Once suggested just sit back and watch them run for cover as no one wants to be associated with a child molester in any form.


        • #2710434
          Avatar photo

          OK since he’s unmarried

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Definitely

          Instead of the worn sexy G strings how about a letter from the local Sexually Transmitted Disease Centerer telling him that he has had contact with some one who is HIV positive and he need to come in for tests.

          I used to have a staff review form that was always good for a laugh as it was anything but polite and when my wife got mucked around by a surgeon she filled one out one sent it to him in a State Government envelope posted at the hospital where he worked it even looked official as I printed it out on a State Government letter head. After all she did work for the health department so I wasn’t doing anything wrong but the person in question went berserk trying to find out who had sent him the letter.


        • #2709361
          Avatar photo

          Just a note of caution here

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Good Advice

          DO NOT BLOW A FUSE but remain calm and collected when you make the complaint as anything else will only play into his hands and prove what he is saying about you and your performance.


        • #2709305

          your are right

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Just a note of caution here

          Yes, youre right and I have achieved that state so no worries there, thats all hes hanging his hat on is the fact that I cant handle it.

    • #2709937

      Yes it is…

      by mlayton ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      having said that, I agree with maecuff’s points. You will hear phrases from the guys that will say things like “It’s amazing that this is still going on”, but for those of us that are females in the industry, we have most likely encountered similar situations in our career. Just wanted to let you know you are not alone.

      The real problem you have is the inability to take it further up the chain of command to have effective action taken. That puts you in a very difficult situation. The funny thing is that since you are a female, you are probably helping them fulfill their “diverity initiative” or something like that. Which makes the whole situation even more ironic. So I hope you find a new job very soon and can leave this behind you!

      • #2709926


        by thelastword ·

        In reply to Yes it is…

        Thanks, like I said I appreciate the input from this thread as I feel it is coming from peers somewhat. This is very helpful. The lack of accountability makes this more difficult true but it makes him stupider(more stupid). He feels he is acting in total secrecy and therefore feels VERY secure about it. The reality is, the more I think about it, even with no formal chain of command, most normal people have strong oppinions about this behavior and he would be a fool to think he is immune from putting himself in a bad position. Even the ‘boys’ aren’t gauranteed to support him in this, it’s too contrversial, he could get kicked out of his own club. I can simply start telling people.
        BUT FIRST… I will confront him personally, as soon as I do that and it becomes open conversation then he will realize what I can do with it. THEN- I will get another job (I hope) and then I will reveal what happened – to the right people. OR, if I don’t get another job, I will reveal it to his boss. I have nothing much to lose at this point.

        • #2709925


          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Thanks

          Confronting him personally puts the thing in a solid perspective. IE> It is the same as an admission on his part. Once he has admitted to it in that sense then I have the power.

        • #2709924

          Good luck..

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to Also

          It may be a good idea to start setting aside all the money you can, just in case. It’s all well and good to advise you to leave, confront, whatever, but the fallout cannot be predicted and you want to make sure you aren’t put in a situation you can’t afford.

        • #2717069

          More Info

          by sunnytwo ·

          In reply to Also

          I have been in your shoes. I was even fired once because I embarrassed my supervisor by shunning one of his advances in front of every one at a company lunch. Yes, he was bold enough to do it in front of everyone! And I got fired!

          I didn’t have time to read all of the thread, but I wanted to make sure you are aware of a few things.

          First of all, it will be his word against yours. Even though you document it, you will still have to convince the HR or court that he did it. It sounds like he is doing more “body language” harassing than the explicit languange that can be written down. This makes proof even more iffy in many people’s eyes. Most people think it is easy to prove sexual harassment, but it isn’t.

          If you confront him, he will deny it and try to turn it around on you. Probably say this is part of your deficiency in communication (did you say this is part of what he has put on your review?).

          He can say you are trying to get even with him for poor reviews. He has really done his work on knowing how to cover his tracks. This sounds like someone that has a pattern of harrassment.

          If you are going to confront him, and you cannot afford to quit, then you should go to HR first, so that when the harrassment gets worse or you get fired there is a written complaint, showing there was a preexisting problem. There again, he can say you are trying to get even with him for poor reviews.

          Taping someone can be against the law. Someone mentioned this before, but make sure it is legal where you live. In California you have to have express consent of both parties. (Obviously the person that is doing the taping has already given consent.)

          What I found worked for me, is to let men know that I wasn’t a pushover. I didn’t threaten them, I just let them know if anyone ever sexually harrassed me I would tell everyone. If I felt someone was the type to harassment, I just found a way of bringing up the subject, like a news article about someone being sexually harassed. Amazingly, that solved the problem.

          Perhaps you could tell him (don’t ask if he means to be sexually harassing you, it is obvious he is) that you don’t like his advances and you have heard that others have had the same complaint. This is a bluff, but there probably have been lots of others before you. Harassers don’t get this good without practice. By the way, they do it because it makes them feel powerful. He doesn’t know who you might know inside the company or outside the company. This may be your best gambit. Then let him know you will no longer tolerate it and leave the meeting. Ask him when you can reschedule the meeting. Don’t give him an explanation as to why you want to reschedule, it will be obvious and you don’t want him to bait you into a discussion at this time. Give him some time to think about who you might know. At any time that he starts the behavior again, that is, at another meeting, stand up and tell him you’ll meet with him when he is ready to focus on the task at hand. And leave.

          Good luck!

        • #2709352
          Avatar photo

          You could always

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Thanks

          Take a photo of your child into work and place it on your work space {if you haven’t already} and when things come to a head say something like you’ve constantly caught him leering at the picture and you saw him rubbing his thighs while leering so you are concerned for the safety of your child.

          While he may just be acceptable to his superiors that type of inference is totally unacceptable to anyone and it’s so much the better if you are in a place that has regular contact with children as it would lead to immediate dismissal as well as stooping him from ever working in a place that deals with children.


        • #2709340

          the way he does it

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to You could always

          He does the thing just to see what my reaction will be more than he is actually engaging in the behavior, I would call the cops on him for that. He does the behavior at a point in the conversation when I am trying to get approval for a project or describe what I am trying to do in my projects or whatever. Its his way of ending the conversation through making it really wierd or to just be intimidating

        • #2709322
          Avatar photo

          In that case sounds to me as if he’s SCARED of you

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to the way he does it

          Just face facts you intimate him. If he is mainly doing this when you are making suggestions or something similar he obviously can’t comprehend what you are saying or is scared you will show him up as the fool that he is!

          Remember “He not the Messiah he’s nothing but a naughty little boy who needs discipline!” {If I wasn’t so PC I’d say he needs his bottom smacked but the yabbo would probably enjoy that as well!}

          Anyway work from that thought and document everything you are in the position of power here he’s not!


    • #2709914

      Speaking as a man…

      by dc_guy ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      I am just so terribly sorry that this happened to you. Jerks like that give us all a bad name. I assure you that if a guy at my place did something like that, I personally would step in to help you even if it meant taking a personal risk.

      Guys who bully women generally bully men too, so it takes a bit of gumption even for another man to go up against them; this probably explains why you (apparently?) couldn’t get any support from your male co-workers.

      Take heart that the tide is turning. Look at the class action suits brought by women against some of America’s biggest employers in the past few weeks. They’re not about sexual harrassment per se, but these are all different instances of men not treating women with respect just because they can get away with it.

      You’ve gotten a lot of good advice, but what you must do next depends very much on who you are. It would be great to flush this guy, but not everyone is a warrior. All victories require making sacrifices. The guy wouldn’t have gotten this far in the company if he didn’t have friends in high places who are just as sick as he is. The kinds of stress that an escalated conflict will put you through, and the memories it will leave embedded in your soul — for some people these are glorious medals that help define who they are, whereas for others they become just a huge patch of darkness buried deep inside, fodder for years of therapy. Only you can decide whether “fight or flight” is the correct survival response. There’s no dishonor in either.

      It’s nice to see women sticking together — to share a normally male confidence, we’ve always been puzzled by the fact that your male nemesis, for example, has lots of guys sticking up for him, but until recently, American women didn’t automatically back each other up.

      You post is brand new, but I hope that other men will soon log in here and echo my comments. I so much want you to be able to believe that only a teeny tiny percentage of us are like that, and we hate them too.

      Bless you for speaking up.

      • #2709905

        You know..

        by maecuff ·

        In reply to Speaking as a man…

        It’s really good to be reminded that more men are like you than not. It’s very difficult to deal with jerks who abuse their power because they have a penis. Hopefully, posts like this will remind us to not become bitter and jaded.

        • #2709450

          Mae, You hit it right on the head. REAL men are not like this in any way!!!

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to You know..

          Mae I’ve read a lot of your posts, some I’ve agreed with and others I haven’t but on this one particular topic I am in COMPLETE AGREEMENT that this behavior has no place in the business environment. No one should ever feel threatened or harassed at work. People like this are beneath contempt and anything that removes them from the scene is fair and just. One should feel no guilt in achieving this. Dawg

      • #2709562

        Chiming in as a man

        by wordworker ·

        In reply to Speaking as a man…

        DC Guy, you never cease to amaze me. While most posts go flailing in various directions, you cut right to the chase with great advice.

        “Victories require making sacrifices. The guy wouldn’t have gotten this far in the company if he didn’t have friends in high places who are just as sick as he is.”

        I have seen this kind of abuser firsthand. They abuse other men, too, by putting them down, keeping them down, not listening, not giving raises, not promoting, denigrating them in public. Then when they sell the company for $90 million, they keep $43 million themselves, and give their lieutenants brand-new beemers, while the rest of the company gets T-shirts…. He might as well have raped all the men and women working for him, he treated us so shabbily.

        While in principle I hate to suggest anyone run from a worthy fight, I also believe in picking your fights carefully. If DC Guy is right,this manager may have the rings of [evil] power on his side…

        • #2709558

          OH YEA!

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Chiming in as a man

          This is the reality of it. It’s not just me he does this too. Everyone in here is oppressed and bullied. Minorities especially too. In that the tenure imitates their accents!!! UNREAL. Or talks to them like their totally stupid. The place is a bomb. HOWEVER, he has added a little twist with me that puts him in a leetle different situation and in fact I may even have the advantage as this battle has already been fought and won. I believe in pick your fights which is why I have documented so much of the practises and making sure I have nailed down exactly which things will hold weight and NOW I will separate myself from all the other little things and just focus on the two items. But you are right in the fact that an attempt to blow the lid off an old institution in which these men go back LITERALLY 20 to THIRTY-FIVE years is a big undertaking. I prefer not to look at it that way as it makes it seem more intimidating. I would rather get out and then let the thing crumble. I think it will crumble as its really old and yucky and it is so uncomfortable in here not just for me but for other people too.

        • #2709348
          Avatar photo

          Well if you do leave

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to OH YEA!

          Do not take your current problems with you. Leave them behind where they belong that is the only way to begin the healing process.


        • #2709506

          Most men wouldnt do this

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Chiming in as a man

          Men don’t do this anymore for the simple reason that they arent stupid enough to risk their own face. ie. the consequences have been demonstrated already. Coming from Vancouver I wouldnt dream a situation like this could occur I have worked with pretty good guys now that I think of it. This is a unique situation in a sickened work environment in the basement of a rotted out government funded institution that noone knows about that is also failing. It has gone on and on and to keep your job and retire you must play along too. If we all play along we get to get a retirement in the end. But he has gone over the edge because hes never dealt with anyone from outside of that institution in 15 years, you know how sickened up he is. ANd a woman no less! It bothers me to hear this goes on in corporate america as I have naively been going along thinking this problem had gone away!!! I hate to think that there are corrupt abusive men in high positions of power but then again WHY would that surprise me?! UHHH look at the government!! hullo. I just hate the idea that I’ve been confronted with it in my face in the dark corner of this old-fashioned dump.

      • #2716229

        Speaking as a man again

        by caddman89 ·

        In reply to Speaking as a man…

        I agree with DC_GUY the guy is a jerk and you deserve better & should be treated equally. I know from past experience being laid-off & it took 2 people the company I worked for hired to do the job I was doing. Also the 2 new employee’s came straight out of college. I had 15yrs in e/m design under my belt. But what the company didn’t like was that I’ve got major heart problems but I put out more work than the 2 people they hired.

    • #2709565


      by jamesrl ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      You’ve gotten a lot of good advice.

      I too am a man and a manager, and I haven’t been on the receiving end, but I have seen harrassment in the workplace.

      I would reiterate the need to make detailed notes and put time/date on them. You need to be able to demonstrate a consistent pattern. You may decide to approach others who may have been harassed as well.

      I am assuming from the email you are in Canada. You should check out your provinces human rights commission as that is where you will have to appeal to if you end up fired or quitting. Find out their processes procedures.

      If you need help with your resume I can point you to some resources…

      I feel for you. I had a peer quit once because she was asked out on a date by a manager senior to her, and what flabbergasted me was that said senior manager did not understand the inappropriateness of his actions and the situation he put this person in. I am afraid in that case I said nothing(she begged me not to) and I regret it still.

      Your best bet at landing that new job is to go back to your network – let them know you are looking, you don’t have to tell them why. Go back to your references – they have contacts in other companies too. Socialise, meet people. Contact old school friends.

      You might decide its a good idea to seek councelling because as you’ve noted in other posts the attitudes and insecurities this guy has imposed on you do affect your performance.

      Wish you luck -let us know how its going.


      • #2709555

        youre right

        by thelastword ·

        In reply to Homework

        Yes, I have gotten really caught up in this as this is a new place I just moved here too and the situation has been somewhat consuming as it is for everyone here, LIke some hellish trap. Which is why they have all been here for 40 years. Anyway, I have done exactly all that and its starting to work, I have my website up and a bunch of other stuff. Like I said, I have it nailed as to the two items and the rest of it, who cares. My performance will not be affected by this at another job at this point because I am ready to leave this and could care less about giving him another thought in my life. He’s had all the time he’s going to get out of me, now I will focus more and more on getting out of it and one thing I can do is confront him on tape regarding his sexual gestures and comments. That should put the power back where it should be.
        Then I won’t be losing it again.

      • #2709554

        HR commission

        by thelastword ·

        In reply to Homework

        I have this all ready to go. I have also talked to the MLA. I have detailed reports to the union prepared as well. I am good to go except for the taped phone call and a quick consultation with a lawyer. I need a new project!

        • #2709346
          Avatar photo

          I’d forget about the Taped

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to HR commission

          Phone Conversation as that could very well be illegal! It is one thing to record conversations in a face to face position but totally a different matter in recording telephone conversations as that may very well breach Local or National Laws covering Telecommunications depending on where you actually are.

          But if you have a well recorded notebook of alleged offenses that is all you will ever need as it is considered as legally binding for example if it is good enough for the Tax Office it is good enough for the Courts or whatever Authority the Government has in place to deal with this type of attack.

          Remember that these departments are staffed by bureaucrats and they just love paper work!


        • #2709341

          Not here

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to I’d forget about the Taped

          There is not a schtick of paper in this whole place. The same pile of papers has been on his desk unmoved for two years. There is nary a meeting, a memo, a piece of paper or a discussion of ANY KIND

        • #2709336
          Avatar photo

          Well keep a diary

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Not here

          Provided you fill it in religiously it is considered as evidence in any court world wide unless of course you are in an Islamic country where women have no rights.

          But all you need do is enter a short note on every discussion you have with this fool every meeting that is scheduled and either gone ahead with or canceled at the last minute and as suggested elsewhere forward any e-mails to yourself at home away from work. You can expect your e-mails to be monitored but you can always claim that since the person in question has such a low opinion of you, you need these to follow his instructions. Playing a little dumb when required isn’t a problem as they expect nothing better so play their game as much as possible.

          If you are prepared to fight this rubbish you’ll need the evidence and all you can get so at the very least keep a diary which can be considered as beneficial to you even if you call it something different like a “To Do Journal” and make sure you buy it not accept it from the company {& I use that term very loosely} as once you accept any stationary from them they can quite rightly demand it returned when you leave or make a formal complaint {and destroy it} but if you brought it then it is your property and they have no claim on it whatsoever.

          Also since you have an established network of friends ask someone connected with the Law to guide you through the proper things that you require where you are and what Government agencies are available to complain to as I very much doubt that keeping it “In House” will do any good.

          While I personally don’t like using friends like that I have many who are only too willing to use me when it suits them so a little advice on the side will never be missed.

          What is important is that E-Mails are considered by all Western Courts as legally binding and carry the same weight as a letter so if the place is relying on e-mail to distribute any form of harassing material {that is something that you personally find offensive} it is admissible in any court {MS learned that one at their own cost recently} and over here we’ve had a senior magistrate jailed for sending an e-mail.

          Also if you have a picture of your child make notes of every comment that he makes about your child particularly any that can be taken in various ways as I’m sure that he is attempting to intimate you in that way as well. It just might help paint him as a pedophile as well which is something that is intolerable anywhere civilized and certainly in Government supported agencies.

          All I can say is if this person worked for me his feet wouldn’t touch the floor on his way out the door but then again he would never have gotten a foot in the door in the first place anyway. I’m for treating everyone equally and judging them on their merits rather than anything else and provided you aren’t purple with pink polka dots you wouldn’t rate a second glance from me for anything other than performance and if you where experiencing problems I’d be kicking heads in an attempt to find out just why this has occurred.

          But then again that’s just me and I can not speak for anyone else but I’m sure that 99.9% of all males would be appalled but this fools actions.

          Incidental I’m and Aussie so don’t be offended by any of the wording in my posts as what I’m saying may mean something different where you are it’s not intended.


        • #2709311

          Thats FUNNY

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Well keep a diary

          Yea well I never thought to see how is with children…HAHA. You know what though I wont brush that off as He WAS NOT HAPPY to see my son up here the one time when he missed the school bus and had to pop up here for a minute. Definite disapproval there and he expressed that his own kid would not be allowed in here (he himself is a single parent). Well, at my last job, I had my son at meetings sometimes with the users when he was TWO. It was just at a time when he happened to be there but NOT A BIGGIE, everyone was glad to see a kid around once in ahwile is did other peoples kids come around. ie. thats not a single mother issue, thats just a parenting issue. But he is so dried out here that he is quite disdainful and I have NEVER considered bringing my son up here again which is another reason why I hate this environemnt. Bottom line though are the AUSSIES go for the throat eh????????

        • #2710519
          Avatar photo

          As a general rule

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Thats FUNNY

          Mostly where laid back and would much prefer a beer to a fight but when pushed that bit too far things do happen. Field Marshall Rommel learned that lesson at Trabook. He never really understood just why those silly colonials wouldn’t surrender after all they where out gunned out maned and had no possible retreat. What actually happened is really quite funny as a German U Boat sunk a cargo ship that was caring supplies into the Aussies unfortunately for Rommel they sunk the RUM boat and not anything else. If it had of been food or ammo the Aussies in all likelihood would have done the sensible thing but take away their grog and you are facing a bunch of “Pissed Off” people who no longer give a dam. As one well published Italian writer said in refering to Aussies “There a Werid Mob” and he’s quite correct.

          As a general rule we mostly would prefer to laugh things off but take a step too far and you have a real problem on your hands.


    • #2709459

      I posted a reply to your post on the management discussions. READ IT NOW!!!

      by sleepin’dawg ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      Do not repeat NOT sit still for this crap. Get another job and once your safe in it lower the boom on this sh*thead and the wishy-washy spinless cruds in HR. You’ve got a great case and could make out like a thief in the dark or a Lotto winner. You sue the company on human rights grounds; in civil court you nail the as*hole and the HR manager and anyone else who you can document contributed to the situation. It won’t be cheap and you can count on a minimum of a five year fight but you should win in the end. Look for a young RAVENOUSLY HUNGRY lawyer who’ll take it on on a contingency basis thus keeping your costs minimized but in the end you could be looking at a mid to upper six figure settlement and quite possibly into the seven figures. If the SOB was one of my managers I would fire him instantly if every thing you say is true and fully documented. If your documentation is weak he’d still be on thin ice but it might take me a month or so to dump the cruddy bas*ard. The ball is now in your court. What are you going to do??? Nobody can take advantage of you unless you permit it.

      • #2709456

        Pri*ks like this give the rest of us a bad name.We’re NOT all BAS*ARDS.

        by sleepin’dawg ·

        In reply to I posted a reply to your post on the management discussions. READ IT NOW!!!

        My alias happens to be my nick name and at other times I’ve also been called “The Assassin” because I do so love taking cruds like this down. However, while I might rant and rave I would make sure my documentation is bullet proof and held close to your chest. Do NOT discuss this with anyone until you are prepared to act and thus he is unlikely to have any defences in place. Once it hits the fan, all his so called buddies will put as much distance between himself and them as possible. You might even get them to testify in your favor if you can show it would be advantageous for them to do so. No one wants to have to deal with the kind of dirt that can rub off in one of these cases. Aside from damage to the corporate reputation, personal reputations can take a severe hit and marriages have failed on lesser grounds. So my advice is go slow but go for it. MAD-DAWG ]:) 😀

    • #2709421

      Softly softly catch the monkey

      by arthurp ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      Over here in the UK the legal standing is a lot different, but the principles in protection of evidence, is pretty much the same – the onus is on you to prove the situation …

      Firstly document everything – keep a diary if this is easier – and make sure that all meetings are documented, and recorded, with comments upon the attendents actions remarks, and reasons as to why the meeting was cancelled, postponed, or just failed … also keep a full audit document of meetings with HR, & ask them to provide “feedback” in written form – preferably hard copy – or if it’s in e-mail forward it to yourself, ensuring to copy the headers … do NOT delete any e-mails concerning this issue, because you will need them ….. I’ll explain why later

      The advise has varied from move jobs to sueing .. both are rational, however, whilst changing jobs will remove you from the current situation, you will need to be honest with any future employers should you wish to take legal action against your current management chain – this may have an adverse effect but will show your honesty …

      Back to the e-mails … As you’re probably aware, if you copy the headers then this is proof of transmission and can be used as proof in a court of law … if you send an e-mail to HR then also copy the headers and forward it to yourself … failure to respond will show their ignorance and non-compliance of any “sexual discrimination” acts ..
      Having documented this information you are now faced with 3 options …
      * Call a meeting with HR, and have an external
      representative pressent – typically a Solicitor
      .. legal representative who specialises in
      employment law, and don’t be affraid to say that
      you will be bringing a representative .. just
      tell them it’s a friend, you don’t need to tell
      them anything else until they are in the meeting
      .. this will also act in your favour should they
      either postpone, cancel, or turn-on you … you
      hold the Ace
      * Find a new job … which I believe from your
      circumstances is an essential requirement .. but
      be honest with anyone who is looking to employ
      * Sue the organisation against any sexual
      discrimination – predujice – intimidation ect

      Personally I wish you all the luck, beause it looks as though you will need it against the “old-boys” club, especially when they turn-on you .. which they will do .. softly softly catches the monkey – take the pay-check gather and document the information the present it … you will win, but it will take time

      • #2709402


        by maecuff ·

        In reply to Softly softly catch the monkey

        Although, I will disagree with one of your points, and only because I experienced this firsthand. I would NOT be forthcoming with potential employers, I wouldn’t outright lie, but I would AVOID as much as possible. Potential employers won’t appreciate her honesty as much as they will see her as a liability. I have never, since I got into IT, had a problem finding a programming job. When I interviewed after leaving the company where I was harrassed, and tried to professionally and without rancor explain why I was without a job and why I was looking for a new job, I was told repeatedly, thanks, but no thanks. As soon as I left that whole little ugly incident out, and said that I was new in town, moving closer to my fiance, blah blah blah, I had job offers from EVERY place I interviewed. I cannot believe this is coincidence.

        • #2709382

          This os the best yet

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Excellent..

          You have covered off some new and additional points which I will definitely consider Arthur. I agree with mae on the not telling potential employers about whats happening, although IF it was in fact a lawsuit or something you might HAVE to tell them, my main goal is to get a new job and then deal with this so I wouldnt tell the new employer, here, that would look really bad on me if I had this going on ,.

        • #2709381

          This is the best yet

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Excellent..

          You have covered off some new and additional points which I will definitely consider Arthur. I agree with mae on the not telling potential employers about whats happening, although IF it was in fact a lawsuit or something you might HAVE to tell them, my main goal is to get a new job and then deal with this so I wouldnt tell the new employer, here, that would look really bad on me if I had this going on ,.

        • #2709372

          Not bad mouthing…

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to This is the best yet

          …a previous employer is one of the golden rules of interviewing.

          You can and should mention that you weren’t being challenged and you had skills and abilities that weren’t being used.

          But anything that smacks of negativism is to be avoided. We all know that bad things happen, but what you want to show your prospective employer that you are focussed on the future.


        • #2709344

          i agree`

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Not bad mouthing…

          My standard line is just that they are in a conversion so the environment is really slow right now

        • #2709317

          Before confronting, find out what’s at risk, and what’s to be gained

          by delbertpgh ·

          In reply to Excellent..

          Check with a lawyer before you get too far. Find out what can be lost or won, before you go taping things and pulling big surprises on people. Maybe there is a procedure or a standard of proof that applies in your jusrisdiction that you don’t know of yet, and that will unlock lots of possibilities. Maybe you’ll get yourself in big trouble by making tapes, and become a candidate for a lawsuit from the weasel. You wouldn’t want the tables turned against you with this bum, would you? Check with your county legal aid society; say you’re looking for someone in employment law, with experience in sexual harassment. In Pittsburgh, the county bar runs a service that guarantees you a referral and an initial consultation that won’t exceed $30 (or maybe it’s $50.) It’s worth it to find out what terrain you’re fighting on.

          The guy is definitely behaving badly. Maybe he’s going through a bad stretch, but most likely he never figured out that anything mattered but himself. If you have the patience, see if you can study his behavior apart from the sexual situations. Analyze his public behavior, and you may find clues to why he is such a creep in private. It’s worth it to know your opponents fully; valuable, if you have the self-control to be guided by your knowledge.

          But, is smashing this bum going to be your life story? Certainly it is not what you wanted. Find a new job, and like Mae (maecuff) says, lie about your reasons for departing. Nobody wants somebody who won’t fit in, and they won’t look past perceived (but imaginary) risks when they consider you. So don’t present any distractions. Lying’s not bad, except when you’re cheating someone, or betraying personal trust.

        • #2709307

          How about that..

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to Before confronting, find out what’s at risk, and what’s to be gained

          We agreed on something 🙂

          It’s a shame that lying seems to be the best thing to do, but self-preservation becomes issue number one sometimes.

        • #2710518

          Possibly more than that

          by delbertpgh ·

          In reply to How about that..

          If you dislike Mr. Bush’s tax policy; think his foreign policy is national suicide; and believe he is an unredeemed liar who is driving American democracy into a hole that will take a generation to recover from, then you agree with me.

          If you think Mr. Kerry has a pitiful shortage of real ideas, and lacks the nerve and vision to unite the people and work as a nation on our problems, then we agree.

          If you believe that we face staggering problems, apart from Mr. Bush’s and Mr. Kerry’s likely incometence, that could curtail our economic prosperity and expose us to military threats, and that in four years our peril has grown worse and not better, then we agree.

          But probably we disagree on some of that.

          I’m a Democrat, liberal, capitalist, and realist.

        • #2710498


          by maecuff ·

          In reply to Possibly more than that

          We agree on many things 🙂

        • #2710517
          Avatar photo

          Well Mae they do say

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to How about that..

          The good lard look he who looks after them self. While unfortunate it is totally correct I think it is more a reflection upon our society in general rather than anything else where you are punished for telling the truth.


        • #2717113

          agree with maecuff, be careful what you say

          by ballroomdancer ·

          In reply to Excellent..

          I agree with maecuff.

          do not let potential employers know the bad about the previous place and that’s why you left. Especially if it involves you possibly having legal action against your previous employer.

          I blew a job interview because my negative attitude towards my last job accidentally showed through. Come up with a diplomatic answer that is reasonable but do your best not down right lie either.

          I’ve been experiencing harassment in my current job for some time but it is not of a sexual nature. The frustrating part is management is aware of the problem but doesn’t do anything. They are hoping he will retire soon and problem will go away.

          The reason: the manager that is the problem cries racial & religious discrimination if they tried tog et rid of him. he’s used it when in trouble in the past.

          Fortunately for me I have an easy honest way out. I’m only a term employee with a fixed end date. I can use that as my reason for looking for a new job and not have to make up a story to hide my real reasons for leaving.

          The only reason I’m still here is haven’t found another job yet.

    • #2709403

      Yep sounds like harrassment to me…

      by tomsal ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      Sorry to hear of your situation, that plain sucks. I suggest the following:

      1) I know it sucks but try very hard to maintain YOUR professionalism. This has two main effects: You keep your own integrity intact and later down the road it will reinforce how UNprofessional this guy is.

      2) Keep doing what you are doing in the realm of searching for another job and do WHATEVER helps you learn and keep skills up — I think you are on the right track in this — you mentioned night classes and you still code for your own benefit..good job! Basically in the situation you are in be a little obsessed with finding a new job.

      3) Now to deal with the punk at hand…. Document everything you can about the situation, his remarks, he’s denying you work, assigning you meaningless jobs. Document document document. Is there anyone you can trust in that company who is higher up the food chain than you? If there is — go to them, but don’t spill the beans all at once — ease through the details of what’s been happening, then you can judge the person’s reaction. Some people — get paranoid when this stuff is brought to them, that’s why its best to ease them in. The best person at the company to bring this to would be HR.

      Another thing, my dad used to work for a large company in Philly, there he had a committee (sp?) for sexual harrassment issues, my dad was president of this committee. Does your company have something that this — a group, program, etc. on sexual harrassment? If so definitely look into them for helping you.

      If everything fails….talk to a lawyer.

      If everything REALLY falls — $5000 and a louisville slugger and I can make your problem “just go away” 😉

      But seriously, best of luck susie.

    • #2709388

      Wierd behaviour

      by steve biko ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      Hi Susie, just thought I’d let you know as a man, there is something really wrong with a person like that. If I were you I’d be a bit careful of him, who knows what a creep like that is capable of.

      Also: don’t let it go on for too long and don’t let anybody explain it away as normal, it just is not!
      If you have any problems, give me call and we’ll send someone over from 32 batallion (ex special forces in Mozambique)….
      Just kidding. Hang in there!!

    • #2709373
      Avatar photo

      OK while he is a BAR STEWARD

      by hal 9000 ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      There are a few things that you’ll have to do to stop him.

      Firstly with 10 years experience you are old enough to ignore this type of rubbish as you are attempting to talk to him. It would be understandable if you where fresh out of school {eg 17 yo virgin if there is such a thing} but you are now a GROWN WOMAN and deserve to be treated as such. Don’t you see by buckling every time he carries on this way you are playing into his hands? You are by now old enough to be able to take control of your life and while you may be off put by this fools actions you really don’t need to show it as he is only winning when you buckle in! Instead of backing off go on the attack after all he has found a weak spot in you so you need to exploit a weak spot in him. Now from your description you really don’;t have much redress in going to upper management or whatever where you are working so you’ll need to prove that you are more than capable of doing your job.

      If you’ve been spending 4 months writing Java Apps for your own amusement instead start off perfecting an existing application or start you own that the team may be working on independently to you. You have to take charge of your life and never allow another to dictate to you what you can and can not perform.

      Several years ago my wife worked with geriatrics and she always got a good laugh when one of the young girls would come in complaining that one of the clients had pinched their bum or something similar. She always just turned around when it happened to her and said “That’s your first and last warning do it once again and I’m out of here and that will be the end of the service as well!”

      While I in no way condone the way this fool is caring on toward you, you are old enough not to be put off by it as well granted you should not be subject to this type of action but did you even consider that he feels threatened by you so he is doing everything within his power to prevent you from advancing? STOP PLAYING HIS GAMES and if you’re really interested in getting ahead instead of getting uncomfortable say something like “You know is men like you that made me appreciate women so much more. Thank God I no longer need men in my life!” Make out your a Lesbian or something similar and are currently in a new relationship with the “NEW WOMAN IN YOUR LIFE!” You could also say something like “Thank God for sperm banks as I’d have been physically ill if I’d had to have sex with someone hairy fool like you for me to get my child that both me and my partner wanted!” You know I’m currently receiving alimony from her as she left me for someone younger or some rubbish like that. Play him at his own game the old days of turning on the water works have long gone stand up for yourself and give this fool the figurative kick in the groin that he deserves.


      • #2709342


        by thelastword ·

        In reply to OK while he is a BAR STEWARD

        I’ve done alot of the stuff you are saying, you have to fully appreciate how sick this environment is however as to the limitations, I have done pretty well and I agree he would never have gotten this far except that i HAD just got out of school again! So I was off for a few years which is what made this timing really bad. The situation really threw me for a loop. I have done a lot with what I have though and I recognize it myself. As far as ignoring it, I would but he is indulging in these antics right at the time when I am pursuing what you are saying, putting a downer on it. I have bypassed him in every possible way but there comes a time when you have to face him at some point in it all and then he does this and talks in circles and it becomes clear that any initiative is dead in the water as far as he is concerned or upon finding out what I am doing he will out and out hire someone else to do the same thing, I swear to god, its to that extent.

        • #2709323
          Avatar photo

          In that case your better off out of there

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to yep

          You can always find another job but recovering your sanity is a totally different story. Since I posted the original I’ve had a look at some of the other replies and I’ve come to the conclusion that you have no choice but to go out of house to find an answer.

          That may be either finding another job and forgetting the problem ever existed, making a formal complaint to a Government Agencies and walking away as fast as your legs can carry you as your better off out of there anyway or finding another job and suing the crap out of them. What ever you decide to do it’s up to you and you need to do what’s right for you. It is not your responsibility to protect others from this type of idiot behavior you have to do what is best for you. That can be forgetting that sad time in your life and getting on with living or fighting the BASTARD and those that support him, whatever you are comfortable with is perfectly OK and you should never feel pressure to do anything that you do not want to do.

          Some people find closure by fighting others by walking away there is no disgrace in either course of action you are only responsible for you and no one else so do what you feel comfortable doing. I personally prefer to walk away from a bad situation but am more than willing to fight it out in the trenches if required it’s just so time consuming and counter productive and I prefer to get on with life but whatever you decide to do, do it because you want to and not for any other reason. Incidental if you do decide to sue don’t expect a huge settlement as while the figures might look good on paper they really suck when the cash hits your hand after the legals have been deducted you are almost left with next to nothing but you have supported the “Legal Whores” so they can buy their next Merc/BMW or whatever takes their fancy!”


    • #2709364

      This guy is sick

      by rrobles7999 ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      This happen to a ex girlfriend of mine a while back. The fist think you need to do is document every think he has done to you. Keep a very detail record of the events. Contact the hr department, if they do not help contact the EOC of the Work Force in your area. I would also try to set this guy up if possible. You are single mother and do not need this shit. Just think if he does this to you he will do this to another female.

      Best of Luck….

    • #2710433
      Avatar photo

      Actually Susie

      by hal 9000 ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      What do you actually DO? If it’s web page design related have you ever thought about going out on your own?

      If you like you can contact me through the peer listings so we can discuss this off line.


    • #2710424

      Are you sure?

      by joebmanwizard ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      By reading your post a couple of things came to mind that no one seems to have given any consideration to. You made an assessment on your own that you were rusty, and that your initial performance was sub par. Also there is reference that contractors were required to insure your projects were completed. If this is continuing after 2 years. As the manager I would have to start considering the termination of your employment. It should not take an employee 2 yrs to come up to speed. I am questioning why you are still there. You are very focused on your managers treatment of you. If I had an employee that was a low performer and high maintenance complainer I could see where a few dumb looks could be comming from me. I assure you they would not be sexual, unless I had determind that your looks was the only thing keeping you around. I dont see where you are trying to be a good employee. You also mentiond you are giving you menial task. How are you doing with them? Your response was punch his lights out.

      Your manager has documented reviews of your poor performance. It really sounds to me like you have created a bad situation by not managing expectations and performing to the level needed by your position. If you are skilled to the level you believe then finding a suitable position in another environment may be your only choice. Your not in school any more. Its a place of business. You should act accordingly.

      • #2710407

        Thanks for the flame

        by thelastword ·

        In reply to Are you sure?

        Ya right. Well if there were ANY projects I might agree with you. The only projects he hires contactors for are the ones I initiate. He is a p**ck, face it. I never said I was rusty on the computer, I said I was rusty in being the business world as I have been in school. GET IT RIGHT.

      • #2710406

        Thanks for the flame

        by thelastword ·

        In reply to Are you sure?

        Ya right. Well if there were ANY projects I might agree with you. The only projects he hires contactors for are the ones I initiate. He is a p**ck, face it. I never said I was rusty on the computer, I said I was rusty in being the business world as I have been in school. GET IT RIGHT.

      • #2710400
        Avatar photo

        If you actually took the time to look

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to Are you sure?

        It was me that said I’d “punch his lights” out as you put it. I actually said I’d “Deck Him” but even if you where correct in you estimation of the situation Sexual Harassment is never a valid option.

        Even if this woman was under performing and only being kept around for her looks doesn’t it point to a very bad manager? If he is unable to resolve the situation in any other way he is unfit to hold that position. No matter what!


      • #2710395


        by maecuff ·

        In reply to Are you sure?

        so, by that rationale, I should be able to publicly humilate my employees if they are a bit ‘rusty’. I should be able to degrade them, and treat them less than human because they have to get up to speed? I certainly hope you are not in management.

        • #2710311
          Avatar photo

          It would be very interesting

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Interesting..

          To work for this person wouldn’t it?

          With that line of reasoning anything would go glad I’m not there.


      • #2710368

        As a tech iii

        by thelastword ·

        In reply to Are you sure?

        I am fully aware of what my level is. Thats the problem.

      • #2710367

        I am going to leave this here

        by thelastword ·

        In reply to Are you sure?

        Thanks for the help. I better shut this down because it’s turning negative and I can’t spend any more time on it. I came on for support, I got some, it helped and I appreciate it. I may post back on this if anything changes. Have a good week IT’ers.

      • #2710366

        I am going to leave this here

        by thelastword ·

        In reply to Are you sure?

        Thanks for the help. I better shut this down because it’s turning negative and I can’t spend any more time on it. I came on for support, I got some, it helped and I appreciate it. I may post back on this if anything changes. Have a good week IT’ers.

        • #2710336

          How about that tangent?

          by _mikebs ·

          In reply to I am going to leave this here

          This was pretty amazing, when the original discussion was about moving up? or on? or along?

      • #2716160

        Communication Skills

        by drew17 ·

        In reply to Are you sure?

        I had a difficult time digesting what was written. I think the author DOES have communication skill issues.

        • #2716085

          Digesting and understanding are two different things

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to Communication Skills

          Communication would relate to your understanding of the post, digestion relates to your feelings about it. Obviously you do understand it. It was written in a casual way but I have the right to write in a casual way in a chat forum. As far as DIGESTING it, yea, I am having trouble digesting it too,.

        • #2715742

          More than that

          by westelserv ·

          In reply to Communication Skills

          From what I’ve read in these posts and responses, I think the problem goes deeper than communication skills into outright personality disorders. It sounds like the manager is bungling the job of managing her out of her job.

        • #2718202

          oh yea!!!

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to More than that

          I assume this was meant to be funny!!! That is the reality of the situation though!!! it goes on and on way beyond what anything normal would ever get to. That’s also part of the ‘culture’- to obscurity and beyond!!! Everyone here is experiencing this element of it. Yukkk! Thats what happens when you get an overfunded place saying its underfunded to get more money and the money is tightly controlled by a bunch of oddballs.
          The only product of the situation is more oddity. WIERD place with a capital W.

    • #2717118

      Get Out or Get Legal

      by fgi57 ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      I was employed by a company that had a significant turnover rate. I was not aware of this prior to being hired, but very soon found out why. The company had a manager that was out of control. The President of the company did nothing to rectify this managers rampages because this manager had recently been made Vice President of the company because he knew more about the product then the President. The President tried to explain the managers actions in a company staff meeting as “being passionate about the product”. We were very hard workers and spent many hours working without being paid for it because we also had a passion for the product and loyalty to the company and the President, but not at the costs of being abused which ultimately caused the staff to feel very uncomfortable and leave. I was later told that not long before I was hired this same manager had fired everyone except the Office manager. There had also been charges formerly filed against him for harrassement, but the company settled the matter with an undisclosed amount of cash. I was told that this was a small company struggling to get off the ground, which I later found out was a lie. The company had been sued because this manager went before a client and performed very badly, throwing things and the like. He would curse at the staff. No person should have to go through this to be employed. I say get out or get legal help.

    • #2717803

      Wish you had the ace of spades, but try this instead.

      by robertsje ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      MH: [My manager] leers at me in these weird ways and whenever I go into his office to discuss something serious he makes weird sexual
      comments out of stuff I say.

      Tell him frankly but compassionately that his off-the-wall comments are really not appropriate and he needs to get a grip on the expression of his imagination. He’s wasting his talents and
      perhaps he should just write some novels instead.
      (This last sentence only if he has a sense of
      humor ).

      CH: He then has slammed me in my review that I have no communication skills but whenever I try and discuss something he does this belittling weird creepy stuff and doesn’t listen .

      He is in a state of denial and just wants to get a rise out of you for some masochistic pleasure. You might have to use sarcastic reverse psychology on him, but it’s dangerous so have witnesses. ( Some people can dish it out but
      they hypocritically can take it themselves ).

      SH: It is the most miserable humiliating nightmare I have ever experienced and it is happening at a really bad point in my career
      when I am just needing to get my skills happening again.

      If you are feeling overwhelmed or frazzled about concerns about your reputation being ruined, then perhaps you should share these concerns with a professional counselor first to get an idea of the best options.

      PH: His latest trick is to purposely give me as menial assignments as possible just for the fun of it.

      If you’re given lemons, make lemon aid. Perhaps he just wants to see if you’re a good sport when your arms are twisted. If you are unable to
      find meaning in such trivialities, perhaps you should gather your references ( especially about his nonsense ) and quit and go elsewhere.
      Nobody wants to appear like a lightweight on their resume, so I certainly can understand your wanting to avoid trivial assignments. I know however from personal experience that there is frequently a silver lining in much of the anguish and suffering which we must endure ( no matter where we’re at ).

      XH: I feel this is a case of sexual harassment in a way or something.

      It certainly sounds like it. Is there any way that you could secretly tape some of his weird conversation, so you have proof without
      conjecture of his shenanigans, i.e. conviction in his own words? But DO NOT REVEAL this to
      anyone, even your best friend. Use it only as
      a last resort in court.

    • #2717797

      Remember Diversity

      by houston brown ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      I am fascinated reading through this. I shows that we are all on a different place in our journey of diversity and inclusiveness. And understanding.

      One thing is very clear, Susie. Your manager’s behavior is unacceptable, and has no place in the business environment. I work for a large oil company, and I too would put myself at risk if I had a coworker in this situation. This is simply not a tolerable way to live your daily life.

      I would like to say that you do need to decide if you want to stay at this company. It does not sound like you have support from coworkers, which leads one to the idea of leaving. However, before you decide to not take any action, remember that this manager will do this to someone else if you are not there.

      I also agree with the comment that there is NO dishonor in fighting OR leaving. However, if you choose NOT to fight, I pity your next coworker.

      Best of luck.

    • #2717761

      Is this Sexual Harrassment? YES

      by constance.aring@firstdata ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      Do you have a Human Resources department? If this happened to anyone at our company, there would certainly be an investigation and probably action taken. It appears to be sexual harrassment as well as just plain bad management.

    • #2717729

      Get Some Expert Help

      by jcmanthey ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      Generally, any behavior of a manager which is not job related is questionable. Some of what you have related in your original story appears to be borderline. The first step is to see an attorney, tell him/her your story, and get a professional opinion whether this legally constitutes sexual harrassment. HR may or may not be helpful depending on what their legal counsel has told them to do or say. In any legal action, the company is a potential defendant in addition to the manager.

      Regarding you assignments, your manager, if he were competent, would have given you specific measurable objectives as part of your performance review. By playing games with your assignments, he is demonstrating that he probably shouldn’t be a manager.

      Good Luck.

      • #2718185

        Performance measurement

        by thelastword ·

        In reply to Get Some Expert Help

        The entire review was a write up on how I seemed disengaged at the team meeting. Well thats when he keeps making these sexual comments!! Like, the ‘NOB’ document or ‘putting it in’ and all this. Like I am creeped out and can’t look at him and neither can anyone else that I can see. I mean NOONE speaks at the whole meeting, ever. There is more to it than that though. The co-worker told me the whole review is actually on how you ‘act’ a certain way as defined by this guy. And I mean ACT a certain way too like, you HAVE to talk a certain way and laugh at all these really wierd jokes that are really dumb and if you don’t he’s right on it in the review!!!! It’s just WEEEIRD. He is just playing games with the assignments because he CAN. Any assignment or project can be tossed in or out at any time because none of them were ever needed to begin with. SO it’s like having a job with endless security but not knowing whether you have a job from day to day because he is dangling everyone out by their projects, which he doled out to begin with. Ie. he can have you sit there for 9 months with nothing, then announce they are hiring four more people for the team…HUH??? well there’s nothing to do they’ll find except surf the internet and hang on every word of this manager hoping the sun will shine on you and you can work on something. If you drum up an idea, he hires a contractor to do it. Then when he DOES give out an assignment, he sits there and disses it off at every team meeting after that. LIke, well theyll probably replace THAT, or we havent really got the skills to do it os well probably have to get a contractor to finish it etc.etc. LOL. Thats where it gets personal. Get to not like the team meeting??? The whole review is on the team meeting. Thats the ONLY meeting or communication that EVER occurs.
        Plus, I heard someone worked here for FIVE Years while working at another job FULL-time before anyone even noticed. The only thing you get reprimanded for here is working. I tried to write a prototype connecting to a database this guy next to me ‘works on’ well this created a big cafuffle and p**sed off all the management, as a punishment, they started ANNOUNCING that his database might not be needed anymore. This poor guy was almost in tears after it. He’s been ‘working’ on it for about 5 years. Then he was REALLY mad at me too. They are Kind of like, you like working on it? Great? Don’t complain to us that is has no users or we’ll shut it down and you’ll have NOTHING to do. Get the drift of it??!! It;s like a rubber room in here.
        At one point in the status meeting, EVERY system the people were maintaining had no users and could have been retired 5 years ago. They are proud of the fact that a piece of code has NEVER been retired in 40 years. Can you spell S-P-A-G-hetti. It can take 3 MONTHS to complete a small project request, there can be upwards of nine different places where people and departments all over the place are updating the same field with all different logic!!!! And all the different people updating it hate eachother in a different way and fight with eachother over the way its used!! I won’t even get into all of that it goes on and on like was said. Kind of depressing to get swallowed up in but then suddenly- A paycheque!!! and a day off!! Whew!!! There are people at the elevator literally trying to get OUT, you can hardly breath in the environment at times you just have to get OUT, it takes hours to let the environment fade away.

        • #2712171
          Avatar photo

          The JOYS of Government WORK

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Performance measurement

          That’s probably why I will not touch either Government or Medical work any more ever under any circumstances.


        • #2712167


          by thelastword ·

          In reply to The JOYS of Government WORK

          no doubt

        • #2712051


          by rebel_angel_ ·

          In reply to Performance measurement

          This sounds like the perfect environment to start building your consulting business from!

          Do work on the side for third parties while accumulating the evidence you’ll need to nail this guy. Just don’t keep any evidence on your work computer (citrix, anyone?) …


          I find myself _wishing_ I was in your shoes 😛

          (okay maybe that’s going a bit far, but if you can disengage it’s kind of funny and potentially useful)

        • #2712031

          The trick is disengaging

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to perfect!

          and believe me I have given every effort and tried it from every angle but the environment is so personally rude, something inevitably happens. There are ways to disengage, if you disengage too much you can screw up too as your attention is required even if there is nothing to do. It’s weird. Yes a lot of people work part time and do other stuff and thats what I sort of started doing to and I think I will get back to that, this sexual thing just has thrown me for a loop.

        • #2712030

          The trick is disengaging

          by thelastword ·

          In reply to perfect!

          and believe me I have given every effort and tried it from every angle but the environment is so personally rude, something inevitably happens. There are ways to disengage, if you disengage too much you can screw up too as your attention is required even if there is nothing to do. It’s weird. Yes a lot of people work part time and do other stuff and thats what I sort of started doing to and I think I will get back to that, this sexual thing just has thrown me for a loop.

    • #2717708

      I Feel Your Pain

      by debon ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      Hi Susie, I can almost feel the pain in your description of the series of events at your workplace. While I understand your feeling to punch his lights out I must advise you against doing so (i.e. although I must admit that it would serve him right) You did mention the “old boys club” so my advice is to continue seeking employment elsewhere whilst trying as best you can to deal with the situation. I don’t know what the law states at you location but I don’t believe that if the conversations are taped without his knowledge and consent that it will be admissable in court – should it come to that. If you really want to get back at this guy you should consult an attorney and s/he will advise how best to collect admissable evidence. GOOD LUCK AND PLEASE TRY TO CHEER UP!!!

    • #2717707

      Use a tiny cam to get his picture

      by ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      This is definetely sexual harrassment, but to get this guy, you’re going to need to CYA. So get a pictures of him with one of those spy cameras, and get your case ready. I wouldn’t go to HR, I would go to your state or federal human rights commission.

      Good Luck:

      P.S. You could also just kick his xox

    • #2717706

      Probably so, but…..

      by grand poobah ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      You may have been distraught as you wrote this, but if you speak the same way you write, I can see how he could complain about your communication skills. Anyway, based on your examples, I think you would help yourself a lot more by taking a stand and not spazzing out. If he “strokes his lips”, ask him if his herpes is flaring up again. If he starts “stroking and rubbing his upper inner thighs”, ask him if he has crabs. Granted he’s being immature and probably abusing what little power he has, but just knock him down a couple times and he’ll back off.

      • #2716852


        by thelastword ·

        In reply to Probably so, but…..

        not true

      • #2716187


        by maecuff ·

        In reply to Probably so, but…..

        That you would comment on this poster’s writing skills, then procede to give advice that revolves around the suggestion that the criminal who is harrassing her has some form of sexually transmitted disease. This is not a game for this woman and lowering herself is not the answer. In fact, that would level the playing field and give him even more room to continue the abuse.

      • #2716186


        by maecuff ·

        In reply to Probably so, but…..

        That you would comment on this poster’s writing skills, then procede to give advice that revolves around the suggestion that the criminal who is harrassing her has some form of sexually transmitted disease. This is not a game for this woman and lowering herself is not the answer. In fact, that would level the playing field and give him even more room to continue the abuse.

    • #2717691

      Good Counsel

      by kayves ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      Hi Susie, Whilst this man is at what he is doing, you have to be strong and not fret. Build up confidence at what you do and don’t crumble at how he reacts to you. You will be helping yourself with learning a lot of confidence building skills on the Internet. You understand the situation in your office better, so use the advise of all those who have responded to this discussion to your best advantage and get yourself up again. There is more to life than this grumpy slot….

    • #2717641

      Go to HR!

      by john.james ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      Go to HR. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200. Go directly to HR!

    • #2717617

      Take no prisoners!

      by entertaining it manager ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      I’m an I.T. Manager and work in a mainly female environment. Any such disgraceful behaviour as this guy shows would not be tolerated in the majority of places, anywhere. Depending on your organisation structure, HR is the first place to formally make a statement. However, it is often a case where the hierarchy is made up of ‘Friends and Allies’ of company members. The trick is to chat to someone that you trust that is within the management team that can anonymously present potential problems faced by managers who exhibit such behaviour to the manager meetings or even the board meetings. Good management will follw through with HR etc or explore the inuendo further and hopefully resolve the situation.

      I wish you luck – with your natural and learned assets it may be worth looking at other options in terms of applying your skills in an industry or company that can benefit more ( eg Entertainment, PR, TV etc.

    • #2717512

      Document, document, document….

      by b.wilen ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      Document everything, secure the info offsite, and then politely let the boss know that you feel
      “uneasy” about his behavior…continue to document…learn about your corporate sexual harrassment policy and procedure….document some more…follow the policy and procedure…#

      In the end, it’ll be your word against his…your detailed documentation will provide the best support…go to Legal Aid, if the corporate procedure fails…if you get fired, sue for the stress, humiliation,…

      A very broad definition of sexual harassment is that if it offends you, it is…a simple postcard in a public area can constitute sexual harassment…and, chances are, that he’s done it before (work history) and may be doing it to others now…

    • #2717499

      Yes, It is harrassment….

      by rmrwork ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      And harrassment of the worst sort, if the situation is as you portray it.

      The first thing that you need to do is to let him know. The next time that he makes an inappropriate comment or action, you should let him know, politely but firmly, that his comment(s) and action(s) and overall attitude are making you uncomfortable and they are unwelcome. That way you will have clearly made a statement as to your feelings on this topic. (Making faces at him may just let him think that you are playing along.)
      Then send him a brief, straight-forward e-mail confirming your discussion. Be facutal, not emotional, in the e-mail. Stay to the facts: “In our discussion of ‘Project X’ today, I found your comments to be innapproproate and they made me uncomfortable. In order to do my job effectively, you need to maintain a professional demeanor when dealing with me. I hope that you understand my position on this matter and that we can continue to work together.”
      Keep that e-mail in a safe place.

      Second, if the situation is as bad as you think it is (ie, unsalvagable) then you should immediately go to the HR organization and formally file a report. If they are in any way competent they will take this seriously and will follow-up on your complaint.
      Just be sure you do this after you have let your boss know that his comments and attitude are inappropriate. That way, when confronted, he can’t just brush it off as being a misunderstanding, consentual or, worse, that you were actually harrassing him or making sexual advances to him. (Abuser portraying himself as victim… it happens.)

      Third, if you are as stressed out as it sounds, after talking with HR you should also investigate what resources are available to you. (A lot of large companies offer peer or professional counseling that is private and confidential.) If they don’t offer anything like that, you should then look at FMLA options for a temporary leave. If the situation is so bad that you considered having someone “pound him out”…. well, despite the pleasant issues that conjures up, it certainly wouldn’t make your situation any better and could put you in a criminal threatening situation. Which, of course works to his advantage.
      You need some distance from this guy before something bad happens.

      I’m not sure how many places you have worked but effective managers, male and female, work to make their employees function at the highest level by providing the best work environment possible. This guy is a loser if what you say is correct.
      So, if this is “the most miserable humiliating nightmare I have ever experienced” then you really don’t want to work for this guy anyway as he sounds like an all-time, four star jerk with major insecurity issues, especially with women, that he is venting on you.
      If his boss truly is aware of the situation (which I tend to doubt, since that makes him liable for legal action) then who would want to work there long-term, anyway?
      My suggestion is to actively work on finding another job within in your company (if it is a good company) and / or to pursue employment elsewhere.

      Good luck.

    • #2716939

      Reply To: Is THIS sexual harrassment

      by pramoddag ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      Hi Ms. Susie,
      My suggestion is why dont u relocate to Gulf region, If u have an american degree u can earn very well here in this part of the world!
      Good Luck and All the best
      Best Wishes

    • #2716914

      Get free advice

      by rndmacts ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      You live in Ontario, there is a simple way to get advice and legal councel available to you. Contact the Ontario Labour Board in your area, check the phone book for the number. If you have a complaint they will make contact with your employer and not HR and put a stop to this supervisor’s action. If you do lose your job then they will take it to court on your behalf and obtain a monitary settlement for you and most likely get your job back sans offending jerk. Taping him in this case is legal, for court puposes and the presentation of evidence.

      In Canada and particularly Ontario sexual harrassment is treated as a heinous crime and the law is behind you and as you are employed by an istitution funded from taxpayers pockets, there is really no big boys safety. Secondly you can show that he wasted money by hiring outside consultants to do work that should have been done by inside resources.

      • #2716854

        Thank you

        by thelastword ·

        In reply to Get free advice

        Excellent. These are my exact sentiments. This province is a little bit backward. The resources aren’t there but from doing this posting I am definitely going to look into legal avenues. This isn’t something I’m really able to handle so I think legal advice is the best way to go.
        Thanks for your post, that is exactly how I feel about the whole situation.

    • #2716825

      Reply To: Is THIS sexual harrassment

      by edronex2 ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      This is harrassment not just the sexual kind in any language I think. I dont know the laws of your country, it certainly will be considered an offence where I live

    • #2716307

      get some support and go to HR pronto as was said

      by sgt_shultz ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      if he has you wondering if you are crazy, that is part of abuse pattern. start making notes about stuff with date and time. make retro notes best you can recall. be very honest. if you cannot recall exactly, say so. your feelings matter and they count. you can act based on them. you must go to HR and do not tell your boss you are going and do not threaten to go. just go. right now. get up and go. and tell them you feel uncomfortable. do not worry whether you feel sure about it. just go and say the same thing as you said here. just the facts and your concerns. do not overstate. say i feel this way and i feel that way. not he did this and he did that. but rather, when that happened, i felt this. do not worry if you do not feel sure of what you perceive. trust your instincts. you are uncomfortable! cling to that. possibly rehearse HR visit on somebody safe (not at work!!) first so you can get calm and rational and fairly brief. it will be ok if you are excited but better if you are not. it will not take much to get their attention. do it for your child and do it for all of us. you have a right to comfortable safe working environment. you are receiving threats from this guy. threats expertly veiled. that is why you feel defensive. you do not have a environment with this guy that feels safe. certainly not one that fosters communication that is for sure. anyhow, do not worry if you are not sure. you feel uncomfortable, that is enough.if it were me, i would seek counselling to help sort thoughts and get some education and support to reinforce that it is ok for me to set and enforce boundaries that allow me to feel comfortable, without feeling like you are doing something bad or selfish or prima-donna-ish. this guy is opportunity to learn (smile). you probably have employee benefit for counseling. talk to hr about feeling uncomfortable and stressed by hostile work environment and ask if you can get counseling in addition to lodging harassment complaint. this will not look bad on your record, it will look like you are taking responsibility for the situation. it will protect you because if the guy retaliates, everyone will be watching. if HR does not help you, you help yourself. get complaint on record and you may need to request transfer, imho. you can’t win with this guy. depending on politics. bet this guy has other complaints and/or sordid goings on in his life. that is not your responsibility. but your life is. sometimes we can’t win. let me guess, you work at hospital? or school.

      • #2716270

        something like that

        by thelastword ·

        In reply to get some support and go to HR pronto as was said

        yes, its something like that. Under normal circumstances that is exactly what would happen. as you stated, which is to just go to the HR office. This place is so wierd though, the HR policy is really wierd and shut in too. There is a ton of people in couselling and all that all the time, that horse has been beaten down. There are people walking around crying and sniffling every week starting about Thursday. There are emails flying around, phone calls flying, yelling, doors slamming, dirty looks, bad vibes to the extreme, the whole place has its panties in bunch on Thursdays!!!!LOL. Me included I guess. No matter how hard you try someone will p**s you off to the extreme every week like clockwork. Now its this guy doing this to me, this has been going on pretty intensive for a long time now though. As far as HR goes, the policy regarding harassment as I looked it up is intensive mediation between the two parties!!!!!
        doesnt sound too inviting to me!!!
        I will see what happens this week.

        • #2716240
          Avatar photo

          While it might sound untenable

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to something like that

          You do have to have a complaint on record. That way if nothing gets done about the complaint when you go outside the organization to the Government Agencies who are responsible for making these things not happen you will have a solid grounds for your complaint against the company, Government Age nice or whatever it is. If it can be shown that they have neglected their “Duty of Care” it is all the better for you and just maybe it might help someone else in the place as well by changing their current complaints handling policy.

          Just make sure that you are really uncomfortable and have real problems with this person as speaking from the other side as one who has had a complaint of “Sexual Harassment” leveled against me “for opening a door for a woman I might add” nothing else she apparently took that as some form of my saying she was incapable of opening the door. If it is only “Good Manners” which from your description this doesn’t appear tho be the situation.

          I’m just saying make sure you have your back covered.


    • #2718197

      Entrenched management

      by buschman_007 ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      First off, how YOU doin? 😉 J/K

      In all seriousness, I have worked in difficult environments like you’ve mentioned. not in regards to your sexual harrasment, but as far as entrenched management and how difficult it can be to deal with difficult managers. It would be nice if everyone played by the rules, and there were no hostile environments out there. but that’s not reality. if you think your HR dept is ineffective and there are no other apparent avenues, then leave. I think you’re obviously a smart woman and see the writing on the wall which is why you’re already getting your resume out there. Go with your instinct and leave when you find something better for you.

      Good luck,

      • #2712343

        Thanks bud

        by thelastword ·

        In reply to Entrenched management

        Thanks for acknowledging that, in some ways some of the responses I got almost seemed like this wasnt even a tech job more like some kind of admin position or something. Thanks for acknowledging that there is some actual skills involved, which in a way makes this worse. I am pretty much ok in here until about Wednesday, adn Thursday thats when everyone pretty much starts to get wound up about the place!!!

    • #2706821

      I was in the same boat.

      by what if ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      I was in the same boat. I spoke up and told them (yes more than one person was involved) to stop I didn’t like what they were saying/doing. I informed HR. Hr told me it never happened because they weren’t told by upper management. I reported them to the EEOC. I ended up getting fired for ‘telling’, The EEOC found them guilty of illegally firing me / sexual harassment and retaliation. It?s still in the courts. I no longer work in the field I trained in. I now work in a company closer to home. My pay is less than half what I made. I got hurt at this job at the beginning of April. I now walk with a cane. Workmen?s comp refuses to pay for my injury, even though it was proven through a MRI and EMG July 1st. Workmen’s comp said its because on July 30th I was in a car accident so they won?t cover my work injuries (they haven?t paid a penny for the doctors or tests)

      If I could do it over again. I would have done something different.

      Does this happen to other woman? When he is making comments ? rubbing himself. Have a tape recorder with you when you go into his office, use it. Let him see you turn it on. Tell him its so you don?t miss any of the conversation. Then if he keeps it up -Look him straight in the eye and tell him what he is doing is illegal -sexual harassment. This may stop the harassment .

      If it doesn?t inform HR.

      When you inform Hr, do it through email. Keep Copies of your emails. Don?t let anyone have that tape recorder, make a copy.

      Keep a diary of the abuse. dates/time what happened.

      Speak up and protect yourself. No one else will.
      Good Luck

      • #2707444
        Avatar photo

        What I should say here is

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to I was in the same boat.

        Don’t under any circumstances hand out original copies of any tapes that you may make always hand over copies. The reason for this is to preserve the chain of evidence as the original can be checked for tampering which a copy can not be. If you only keep the copies it could be argued that there is no real evidence as the originals are no longer available. It of course goes without saying only Law Enforcement Agencies should have access to the originals and even then you should get a receipt for them when handed over.


    • #2708143

      I am going to confront him in an email

      by thelastword ·

      In reply to Is THIS sexual harrassment

      Any objections?
      He is right up to his old tricks again and was leering at my *** today again. I am going tolay it straight out in an email and hope to get a response back that validates and confirms it. Either way I am going to confront it tomorrow.

      • #3306923

        You call an e-mail the proper means of confrontation???

        by optionmeister ·

        In reply to I am going to confront him in an email

        I’ve tried following your reasoning on this but you seem a bit disorganized. What he is doing is definitely sexual harassment but you are being somewhat inconsistent in your reactions. Get some legal advice and then go to your HR people to see what they are prepared to do in putting a stop to this. From the sounds of it you might be better off relocating to another job. It must be very demoralizing to be in your present position and you should try to alleviate this situation as soon as possible. Good luck.

        • #3306811


          by thelastword ·

          In reply to You call an e-mail the proper means of confrontation???

          Im on the same page with ya there buddy. The environment here makes it almost impossible to get another job mind you, thats why they’ve all been here 30 and 40 years. I will tell you why…nothing about it is normal. Nothing. And by the end of ‘the week’ you arent either. I challenge you on this. You WILL BE ACTING Like some kind of wierd chump if you work here. How does that fly in interviews? uhhhh…not that great so expect the job hunting to take longer too. In the mean time, skills get sucked down drain. Have I reacted inconsistently. No. Because I haven’t really reacted yet. I was considering sending an email. The situatiuon is so vile at times that I might just get it out that way and then its all written down. Thaty might not be your method but at least it would be written down then and he would have to respond. I would bcc. the director in on it. Why is that so bad? Why should I be the one guinea pig who confronts the guy personally when his whole world revolves around this sh*t, you;re thinking of someone who maybe has one little quality they;ve let slip and they can go back to normal. No,. This guy is ALL ABOUT THIS SH*T.
          I have pretty much handled it the same way all the way through, I basically take notes, write detailed info on incidents and practises in here and send out resumes. What would you do? It’s only as ‘demoralizing’ as I allow it to be. As a female do you think its any more demoralizing for me than it would be for you. This guy does stuff to everyone in here, it doesnt affect my perspective of myself, especially my perspective on myself as a female, ‘demoralizing’ is kind of a wierd word to use. HERE’S WHAT IT AFFECTS:
          my perspective of this JOB, my future employment prospects.
          I dont take it personal or second judge who I am personally or as a female because of it!!! I have this place completely dialed dont worry. Have I reacted inconsistently? I have had many different views and takes on this sucker thats for sure. Its an abssolutely mind-bending environment and the only sure conclusion anyone here can come to about it is that its wierd. I challenge you or anyone else to come in here and handle it any better.

Viewing 32 reply threads