General discussion

  • Creator
  • #2344645

    Is this the beginning of the end for MS?


    by timmitchell ·

    I can’t help but think that Windows XP will be the catalyst that topples Microsoft from its industry-leading throne. After all, people are fed up with Microsoft! The Justice Dept. is all over them (and rightly so), and the battle has just begun inthe courts. And in the fat middle of that mess, Microsoft concocts a Communist-like product activation scheme which assumes guilt and makes each and every end user prove that he/she may legally be using the software that has already been bought andpaid for ($$$$).

    Their last OS was released only 14 months ago, and office suites are appearing just as fast. Public opinion of Microsoft is at an all-time low. Even with their Product Activation scam, their products keep rising in price (Mr.Gates, are you doing that to keep prices down or to satisfy Wall Street?). They continue to promise that the NBT will be much better than the last, with more user-friendly features and workgroup collaberation (whatever that means); all of which is meaningless to me, considering that most of my end users can’t send an email attachment without supervision.

    Contrary to what many people think, there are alternatives out there. Although its hardware is proprietary, Macintosh makes a very stable, user-friendly product. Linux will run on almost any PC, and it’s free. Sun has a free office suite that is well worth what you pay for it…. and Corel has an Office 2000-compatible suite that is as good or better than its Microsoft counterpart (at half the price, product activation not required).

    I really think Microsoft has screwed up. Bill won’t admit it; he has never backed down on a product release before and will bet the farm on this one, too. I just hope that those thousands ofprogrammers will find new jobs…..

All Comments

  • Author
    • #3721059

      Simply: THE END.

      by w04525 ·

      In reply to Is this the beginning of the end for MS?

      F*****g M$. Who is paying $$$$$$$ ?
      I’ts hardley to beleve but microsoft has finaly did it. Now there going to far.

      The Tomorrow Times

      The financial marked will be shoked to hear but microsoft is broken. Bill gates has retierd from microsoft.More than 30000 people has lost their jobs….

      (some doom senario of the future).

      We even can’t order Office 2000.

      Nice m$, verry Nice.

      • #3721012

        A brief dictionary for your next posting

        by xxx123 ·

        In reply to Simply: THE END.

        It’s (not i’ts)
        hard (not hardley)
        believe (not beleve)
        finally (not finaly)
        they have or they are or they’re (but not “there gone”)
        too far (not to far)
        financial market (not financial marked)
        shocked (not shoked)
        retired (not retiered)
        scenario (not senario)

        That doesn’t even address the grammatical errors. I’m usually not that picky but sheesh! How old are you?

        • #3720243


          by generalist ·

          In reply to A brief dictionary for your next posting

          I think that the writer might be from the Netherlands. The “nl” at the end of the e-mail address hints at that.

          If the observation is true, then I’d say that they are doing a decent job of using English as a second language.

        • #3722075

          Hmmmm . . . possibly

          by xxx123 ·

          In reply to Netherlands?

          But the juvenile tone of the entire post, and the lack of any intelligent arguments for or against Microsoft (other than the “Bill Gates sucks” variety) still leads me to believe we’re dealing with a 14-year-old here.

        • #3720661

          Mental age

          by generalist ·

          In reply to Hmmmm . . . possibly

          I’d agree that the mental age reminds me of a ‘typical’ fourteen year old whose socialization skills are completely lacking.

          Of course that can apply to people who are much older than that. Now is the person fourteen going on fourteen or twenty-four going on fourteen?

        • #3711145

          STICK TO THE TOPIC!!!!

          by sheaandy ·

          In reply to Mental age

          Why is it that you supposedly highly educated technicians cannot seem to stick to the topic of the discussion? It seems to me that you are more interested in criticizing grammar. How mature.

        • #3708877

          Sticking to topics

          by generalist ·

          In reply to STICK TO THE TOPIC!!!!

          I’m assuming that you are relatively new to the TechRepublic discussion area. You’ll find that this is the section where we are NOT required to stick to the primary topic.

          On the other hand, TechRepublic IS an area where highly educated professionals, not just technicians, help each other out. In this particular sub-thread we were commenting on the level of professionalism shown by the person originally making the comment. We also made constructive comments on how to improve the level of professionalism, thus helping people out.

          Being a professional is not just a matter of knowing the technical stuff. You may be the best technical person in the universe, but if the owner of the company decides that you don’t project the right image, you’re headhunter fodder.

          Being professional doesn’t mean that you have to be up tight all the time either. You’ll notice that a few people poked fun at us through use of various variations of Dutch. It was fun and educational being on the other side of a language barrier.

          You will notice, however, that we did get back on the primary topic. But we had a little fun along the way.

        • #3708739

          home user

          by katmandoo58 ·

          In reply to STICK TO THE TOPIC!!!!

          im glad im a home user but if i was a corp. or IT manager i would still laugh about this money making scheme BSA is pulling. and thank you tech republic for the true color you are,green,. i will unsubscribe this newsletter when i finish this sorry we have to part but you do understand.

        • #3709796

          Generalist you elitest snob –

          by jimhm ·

          In reply to STICK TO THE TOPIC!!!!

          You Elitest snob – if you are the poster boy for IT professionals – I think I would have to change careers. You more a poster boy for ELITEST’s and SNOBS.

          OH we are professionals and we are trying to make everyone better – I AM THE GREATEST – Get real – most of us “Techie’s” are poor spellers – poor gammar –

          Get off your High horse – you aint no better than whale dug at the bottom of the ocean, right along with the rest of us.

          What is your second langauge that you can speak and spell and use grammar correctly.. And “Stick to the Subject” –

        • #3708527


          by generalist ·

          In reply to STICK TO THE TOPIC!!!!

          I’m just pointing out some of the realities of the profession while minimizing the name calling or flaming.

          I know, from experience, that a lot of technical people have problems with spelling and grammar. That is one of the reasons I’ve occasionally done proof reading for people. Having me point out possible problems is much better, professionally, than having the CFO or CEO find them.

          When helping, I try to explain why I think things are off, as opposed to the snobbish technique of declaring something wrong and providing a correction. A gentle critique, with praise for the good points, does a much better job of helping.

          As far as staying on topic, why don’t you start another discussion about staying on topic, professional mentoring and/or grammar? After all, your comments are as much off topic as mine…

        • #3708276

          Elitist Snob.

          by epepke ·

          In reply to STICK TO THE TOPIC!!!!

          Hey, I’m much more of an elitist snob than Generalist is!

          Personally, I think the Nederlands guy was just blowing off some steam, which is quite understandable, especially as it’s even harder to get hold of Microsoft from Europe. Deliver unto him a break.

        • #3708273

          Steam and second languages

          by generalist ·

          In reply to STICK TO THE TOPIC!!!!

          For somebody who is using a non-native language to blow off steam, the Nederlands person did quite well. If you eliminated the implied expletive I wouldn’t have anything to complain about in terms of content.

          The fact is, if I had been in the right mood I would have added on to the “Future News” since that is a good way to deal with a topic. You can create a scenario of what would happen if things continued as projected.

          There some things I am curious about though.

          For example, I suspect that MS products have a lot of documentation in American English and a lot less in other languages. Does being able to read American English give people a major advantage in those areas where English isn’t the native language? And are the translations from one language to another accurate enough to be useful?

          I also wonder about product lag time too. I have heard some people say that IT departments in their countries are at a disadvantage because they are a cycle or so behind the latest and greatest software and/or hardware. Can anybody confirm this and provide a lag time range?

          It might be that non-English speaking countries might be able to avoid certain problems by being slightly offset in the product deployment cycle.

        • #3709281

          Expletives and language

          by epepke ·

          In reply to STICK TO THE TOPIC!!!!

          That particular expletive is unique to English. It derives its strength from the fact that the Normans conquered England in 1066. One of the first things they did was start a shame campaign, according to which the old Saxon/Germanic terms were badbecause they the people spoke them, while the rulers spoke Norman French. Prior to that, kings and commoners alike used the so-called four-letter words. After that, they were considered “vulgar” (lit. “of the people.”) This is why “copulating Microsoft,” although it means exactly the same thing, has no strength. (And, no, it isn’t related to German “ficken” but to medieval German “fucken” which is to plant a seed in the soil by pushing it in with a stick.)

          Apart from that, Europeans havea lot of extra problems with Microsoft.

          1) There isn’t even the pretense of a toll-free number.

          2) People in Europe remember World War II and have laws about privacy and information collection. (People in the Netherlands *really* remember World War II. A lot.)

          3) Like Disney and Coca-Cola, Microsoft is a symbol not only of corporate imperialism but national imperialism.

          4) Microsoft’s sad little attempts at internationalization bite the big weenie. I remember an article by someone in Quebec who wrote in English but couldn’t get the English spell checker because he had a French Canadian keyboard.

          5) As you mentioned, there is a language barrier. Most documentation is barely in proper American English, let alone a dialect that L2 speakers can understand.

          On the other hand, Linux and lots of other good stuff has come out of Helsinki, so they must be doing something right.

        • #3721751

          Hmmmm . . . 14-year-old

          by pandadude ·

          In reply to Hmmmm . . . possibly

          He’s pretty pissed about M$ robbing $$$ from people…but no 14-yr-old I know pay for software.

        • #3721621

          try to translate.

          by w04525 ·

          In reply to Hmmmm . . . 14-year-old

          Ik ben echt niet 14 !! sukkels. maarja dan moet je het zelf maar weten.

          (That is the language I speak) ok ok,

          Brief: I’m not 14 years old.

        • #3721479

          ‘Tone’ of voice

          by generalist ·

          In reply to try to translate.

          I think it was the tone of voice you were using that triggered the ’14’ year old comments. Beginning with implied profanity isn’t professional.

          Personally I’d begin a rant like that with something like the following:

          “Those quarter wit idiotsat (fill in the blank) have done it again.”

          More words but much more impressive in my way of thinking.

        • #3721803

          quod erat demonstrandum

          by amedee ·

          In reply to try to translate.

          We hebben vorige week weer gewonnen in 10 voor taal…

        • #3721814

          Going Dutch

          by amedee ·

          In reply to Netherlands?

          It is common knowledge (at least in Flanders) that the average language skills of the Dutch have just hit Neanderthal level. (Sorry, that’s an insult to Homo Neanderthalensis)
          After all, we win most of the times in “10 voor Taal”, don’t we? 😀

          For those on the other side of the Atlantic: mock-arguments like these date back to the siege of Antwerp by the Spanish. Check your history books… 🙂

          By the way, English is my *third* language, after Dutch and French.

        • #3721633

          Thank You!!

          by rdschaefer ·

          In reply to A brief dictionary for your next posting

          I usually get flamed when I complain about grammar. I wouldn’t say anything to a normal adult (I correct the kids I associate with) but the people who use this site should be above normal. If you are going to express your opinion here, at LEAST run it through a spell-checker before you hit that [Send] button. If you know you’re English is poor, start up Word or something and use a Grammar-checker as well.


        • #3721632


          by rdschaefer ·

          In reply to Thank You!!

          Speaking of mistakes, I just noticed I missed one. My apologies to all.


        • #3721998


          by cuz_n_jed ·

          In reply to Oops!

          If there are no mistakes, then are we sure that something is even being done??
          Mistakes PROVE that at least an effort is being made.


        • #3721590

          You know not everyone that posts

          by jimhm ·

          In reply to Thank You!!

          You know not everyone that posts here is American – so many of these posters are utilizing a second or third language. Let us over “Spell Checking” Americans reply to them in their Native langauge and get all the spelling and word selection correct.

          So Ralphie – and EMG – I would call you both The “UGLY AMERICAN’S” – And if you really want to look into it – American English is a downgraded Slang of English – the British have better usage of the langauge then us American’s.

          So – Lets seeyou answer – Answer this poster in his/her native langauge… and we will let them – spell check and gramar check you…

        • #3721810

          Missed The Point

          by rdschaefer ·

          In reply to You know not everyone that posts

          Sorry, you missed my point. I would not even think of responding in a language I was not fluent in.
          Casual conversation is one thing but in a technical discussion, if I absolutely HAD to participate, I would have someone translate for me. This has nothing to do with American ‘arrogance’, but rather a desire for full understanding.


        • #3721794

          What Dutch are you going to use?

          by amedee ·

          In reply to You know not everyone that posts

          Are you going to use Flemish Dutch or Dutch Dutch? To keep things simple: Dutch Dutch is a downgraded slang of Dutch, though the Dutch would say the same about Flemish Dutch. And they would also be right.

          So far for the language discussion.
          Backto the original topic, please.

          – signing off –

        • #3709315


          by guruofdos ·

          In reply to You know not everyone that posts

          Actually, the English probably have the better command of the ‘English’ language, rather than the British! You should try to decipher the Gaelic/Celtic languages as used by the Scots, Irish and Welsh!!!

          That said, we English do have a tendancy touse (not utilize, and even that word should be spelled ‘utilise’!) some grammatical structures or spellings that don’t exactly show our correct working knowledge of our own language. We do have that nasty tendency to insist words are spelled correctly and not in US English, as Bill Gates would prefer. It rubs me up the wrong way to see allegedly ‘international’ software using the word ‘color’ instead of ‘colour’, ‘disk’ instead of ‘disc’ and the language choice ‘US English’ instead of ‘English’. What happened to ‘English (Strine)’ for Australia and ‘English (Kiwi)’ for our antipodean cousins??!

          Don’t take this the wrong way! Yes, I AM English, but my wife is American so I can’t afford any bias, but even she has insisted on using English as opposed to US English and is learning her ‘new language’ dilligently. God help me if I call my trainers ‘sneakers’ or refer to the pavement as a ‘sidewalk’!

          When Microsoft release a truly ‘English’ version of their software, maybe the Englishwill take more notice. Oh, Uncle Bill, the alternative measurement unit’s to Metric aren’t ‘English’. We call them ‘Imperial’!!

        • #3711174

          Who give’s a rats arse!

          by tomsal ·

          In reply to English

          How’s that for language usage ye bastiches! 😉

          Seriously, all this talk about language useage all I can say is language was invented to facilitate communication. Communication is to transmit a thought, idea, emotion, concept or repsonse to another person. If the person can understand what it is you are trying to say – even if they have to see through your spelling mistakes or poor grammar useage from time to time..who cares? The goal of communication and language has been accomplished. Now Iam in agreement with some of you, believe it or not I used to have excellent spelling and grammatical ability – but then I slowly succumbed to my use of the computer and between getting lazy with spell checkers and used to seeing others write poorlywell – this post is an example of how low my skills have sunk. 😉 To get anger or upset over which form of a language to use is just beyond silly to me. Who cares? I don’t. Modern society is getting too anal anymore, we stress about enough I think. I don’t know about you but life throws enough at me that I have better things to concern myself with than if “color” is really “colour” or if “ain’t ain’t a word”. Besides the different way everyone talks and communicates is kind of interesting its one of the many many things that make us individuals.

          Yes, American English is less refined than British English, yes I use a lot of slang and poor grammar. Yes some will scoff at me as a “what a stupid american”, I don’t care. I know what I know,I know who I am and as long as I don’t dribbling when I talk and think before I speak I’ll be just fine. I will admit one thing I wish we Americans did differently — go to all 100% metrics, oh sorry I mean “Imperial Metric” measurement.

          so ciss mye arse ye friggn bastiches!



          PS. Purposefully NOT spelle checkede fur yer pleasure

        • #3721622

          It was late.

          by w04525 ·

          In reply to A brief dictionary for your next posting

          and English is not my favorite language.

        • #3721596

          OK what – is your second language – Emg?

          by jimhm ·

          In reply to A brief dictionary for your next posting

          OK EMG what is your second or third of fourth language you can speak and spell..

          I would class you as a Microsoft BIGOT who can’t argue the points that have been raised for discussion – but attach the person..

          If you noticed the address is NL… Can you figure in that small MS brain of yours – that it is not American – so english is a second language. Lets see your educational skills – and reply to the person in Dutch, or Swiss German, of German – how about an easy one Spanish..

          Stickto the Discussion topic … A FLAME IN RETURN – TO YOU

        • #3707555


          by ron_balch ·

          In reply to OK what – is your second language – Emg?

          I cannot believe that this much discussion over spelling and grammar has taken place here. You guys must get real hot and bothered when reading through motherboard manual. 🙂

        • #3708171

          Not really…

          by generalist ·

          In reply to Unbelievable

          Not really. Many of us were ‘trained’ on IBMese as found in the multi-volume encyclopedias associated with IBM hardware, operating systems and hardware. While they were theoretically written by people who spoke variations of English, then tended to be more than a little confusing.

          Besides, if the motherboard manual is too confusing, the parent organization may lose business or pay out a lot in support calls. THAT problems tends to be self correcting in the long run.

        • #3708071

          Back in the 1980’s

          by epepke ·

          In reply to Unbelievable

          when we had a bisynchronous communications package and the manufacturers gave us their preliminary board designs so that we coult tell them how to do synchronous communications, I struggled over many a schematic hand-annotated in Japanese!

      • #3711097

        You can still get O2k

        by dbaldwin ·

        In reply to Simply: THE END.

        If you want O2k (or even Office97 for that matter), check out They have them, and cheap for that matter.

    • #3720231

      I hope you’re right, but doubt it.

      by uncle fritz ·

      In reply to Is this the beginning of the end for MS?

      Don’t lets us kid ourselves. In the time it took to load two of these Tech Republic discussion pages, LBG (Little Billy Gates) made more money than almost all of us together will earn in the next year, if not the rest of our lives!

      The point is,as the assorted court cases have demonstrated, too many people, companies, officials, and participants in the legal system are for sale or rent… So if LBG thinks some company is a potential threat, he can either buy them out or cook them out.
      That is a form of mildew of the mind, and the only good cure for mildew is fresh air and sunlight. In the software and OS world, doesn’t it seem like that means Open Source?

      Open source can do it, but we will have to start relying on QUALITY and EXCELLENCE of product, not just keeping secrets.

      Hmmm… or should I maybe start studying some Indian or Chinese dialects…?

      In order for the public to catch on to the poor quality of M$ products, the public will have to be educated, and there seems little interest among users in actually understanding so many technical matters.

      • #3720518

        You’re right…let’s educate the public!

        by timmitchell ·

        In reply to I hope you’re right, but doubt it.

        You’re absolutely right that the public in general doesn’t know how bad Microsoft products are. A big reason behind that is that they’re used to MS product. They think that BSODs, GPFs, and Illegal Operations are simply a cost of computing and cannot be avoided. When they hear about a public website being hacked, they don’t understand the techspeak to know that it’s IIS that’s been hacked… again. In short, most people don’t know what’s available; they accept what they’ve grown accustomed to.

        I, for one, have advised my employer and clients to lean toward an open-source model for server operating systems. We can all agree on the benefits of using open-source, and I am excited to see vendors such as RedHat and SUSE beginning to make quality, standards-based products. I agree that consumers will only agree to learn a new product if they know that it’s a high-quality, stable offering; with the explosion of the open-source market, I believe that the day is upon us.

        Public opinion can be a great ally or a fierce enemy. I hold fast that, if enough of the general public (technies and end-users alike) have a disdain for M$ and its greedy business model, their sales will plummet. Falling sales means less confidence in the stock, which means upset stockholders (after all, they’re the ones LBG is trying to please, right?). It may not be this year, or next year, but Microsoft will reap what they are sowing.

        As for me, I’m learning Solaris and RedHat administration as fast as I can.

        • #3721784

          better open source software needed

          by amedee ·

          In reply to You’re right…let’s educate the public!

          I agree the public needs to be educated, but about what? Let’s face it, open source software needs to grow up urgently.
          If there is one thing you can say about Micro$oft software, even the most technically challenged can use it.
          If Redhat or otherLinuxes want to compete with M$ on the end-user market, there is still a very long way to go. But once on that road, I am positive that open source software will start to spread.

        • #3722447

          Avoid Apple’s mistakes

          by generalist ·

          In reply to better open source software needed

          One of the things that gave the IBM compatible PC an edge over the Apple was the fact that there were a lot of people writing software for it. While the various Apple products were often better, the IBM compatible products were cheaper and more accessible.

          For that matter, the hardware tended to be cheaper than Apple due to the hardware version of open source. Attempts to make Apple clones and reduce the entry price were squashed by Apple’s lawyers. That further reduced the developer basefor Apple oriented software.

          One result was high quality Apple software with a premium price for those who could afford to buy the test. The other result was lesser quality software that the rest of us could afford.

          Over time that lesser quality software improved so that the differences in features are almost trivial.

          Open source software can follow the same curve. Keep it a lot cheaper than the competition and reasonably functional and you’ll win customers and developers. Improve it as you go along and you’ll eventually challenge IBM compatibles running MS based products.

        • #3711117

          Apple’s mistakes

          by epepke ·

          In reply to Avoid Apple’s mistakes

          I often think that the best way to break Microsoft’s monopoly would be to split Apple into a hardware and a software company. They have done some silly things due to the desire to make a profit on both which has harmed their ability to make a profit on either, such as quashing the Apple clones on the hardware side and quashing the Star Trek project on the software side.

          Now, however, you can get AppleWorks, which contains a word processor, spreadsheet, drawing package, painting package, anddatabase, all perfectly competent (and to my mind better than the MS Office stuff) for $129 *new* (not an upgrade).

        • #3709328

          real wish missing

          by mircea_t ·

          In reply to You’re right…let’s educate the public!

          On this issue I think is missing the real wish of main IT actors. They let Dept. of Justice to demolish M$ because they fear or are too less motivated.
          That’s the point!

        • #3707876

          GPF’s and BSOD

          by marshallkeithusa ·

          In reply to You’re right…let’s educate the public!

          If you ever get a hold of M$ they will do their best to try to convince you that it is a hardware problem. . . Yet I have never had the problem with Redhat BSD or Slackware on the same boxes Hmmm.

    • #3720502

      Public pitfalls

      by generalist ·

      In reply to Is this the beginning of the end for MS?

      When it comes to MS products, I suspect that the public acts like my parents. They are looking for something that has name brand recognition, claims to be easy to use and can be found easily and for a low front end cost. If it works reasonably well, they’ll buy it.

      If you try to convince them that MS is a monopoly that does things to discourage the competition, they’ll say that it is all part of doing business. They’ll also say that MS is a better competitor because they can do such things. Then they’ll mention how much better the phone service was under the Bell monopoly.

      Of course, if the distributor of gasoline, a local monopoly, raises prices too much they’ll complain and expect the government to do something about it. Afterall, that is a different type of monopoly.

    • #3721619

      Bloatware vs Componentware

      by guruofdos ·

      In reply to Is this the beginning of the end for MS?

      I still have and run Word for Windows 1.1 and Excel for Windows V3.0. They still have all the functionality I require from a word processor and a spreadsheet. If I need additional functionality, I can write scripts,macros and VB code. When I upgraded to Windows 95 from WFWG3.11, I tried to run Word and got a message saying ‘This software is too old. Contact Microsoft for an upgrade!’ and the damn thing wouldn’t run anymore. Easy solution:- Install Lotus Ami-Pro V3.0!!! Well, eventually I ‘acquired’ a full version of Office 95 (I purchased a desk from an office auction and the CD, EULA and Licence was stuck behind a drawer!) Disregarding the fact that MSO95 had hundreds of features I’ll never need, it took nearly 120Mb of hard disk to install it as opposed to the 11Mb required for W1.1 and E3.0. It also ran a lot slower.

      Microsoft keep exhorting us to upgrade on the grounds that each OS or version of the Office Suite is ‘easier to use and more productive than before’. Where do theyget this notion from?

      If all I want to do is type, edit and print then file a letter, my 486 DX2-66 running WFWG3.11 in 8Mb Ram using Word1.1 was so much more productive than anything else I have ever used.

      If a computer is going to die, it will do so from infant mortality within the first few months, or from failure after time because of some component like the hard disk or PSU ‘letting go’. Typically, most electronic devices will run for years and years with no problems. So why can this not be the same with our software?

      Uncle Bill….I don’t need all the bloat that comes with your new suites. I don’t need the Web enhancements. Workgroup functionality? I just want to type and file a letter!!!! Why can’t I use software that ‘does the job’ and no more? Wake up to the idea of ‘component-ware’ and Microsoft MAY just have a future.

      • #3722025

        What’s the Computer for?

        by cshull ·

        In reply to Bloatware vs Componentware

        I remember reading an anti Win/Office argument (rant, actually) a few years back from a crusty MIT prof who couldn’t understand why anybody had any use for anything beside EMACS. I don’t think he got out much. Anyway, if all one needs is to type aletter, the quaint, but not unreasonable, notion starts to seep in — What’s the point of using a computer and a printer? Why not just write a letter? With a pen and paper.

        disclaimer: The above in no way indicates approval by the author of MS’s predatory business practices.

        • #3709321

          What’s it for?

          by guruofdos ·

          In reply to What’s the Computer for?

          Computing, obviously! Mathematical calculations, CAD, PCB design, electronic simulation, programming, web browsing, email….etc. etc. ad infinitum. If all our other apps were as top-heavy as MS Office, we’d need several hundred gigs of disk space. Sometimes we need to write a letter or a manual, paste in some pictures, edit chunks from one doc and insert them into another. Word 1.1 does it adequately…in 7Mb of hard disk space!

    • #3721586

      I have to agree – it could be

      by jimhm ·

      In reply to Is this the beginning of the end for MS?

      I have to agree this could be the death blow to MS. The company I work for is not moving to XP, is droping support, and not going with the SA, EA or other licensing. (Saves us about 1.2 million)

      I am sure that many corporations are doing the same- so look for MS revenue to start to drop in the 2nd quarter of 2002.

      SELL you MS Stock now … Don’t waite … SELL – Look at CISCO – Price – Don’t Lose your money…

      Yes the 4th quarter will look good when a number of companys change to a SA or EA license agreement… but what happens in the next quarter – or the one after that.

      Where is MS’s incoming coming from – licensing or new porduct? – Support or Services?? – If you notice – its not from Sales – most of the income is from yearly licensing and support… which are soft dollars…

      If MS doesn’t change directions – they may be building a wooden box – for Gates and Company… (Of course Billion dollar Gates – shouldn’t be hurt that much. Oh yet – check out how many shares Gates still ownes – interesting)..

    • #3722012

      It is TBOTE; here’s why…

      by dcavanaugh ·

      In reply to Is this the beginning of the end for MS?

      Like so many other now-defunct businesses, M$ has lost sight of the customers. The customers wanted simplified administration and a reduced “total cost of ownership”. The M$ response is mandatory product registration and a whopper price increase that includes rentware licensing. As an M$ customer, I am not pleased.

      Either M$ is truly clueless or this is some kind of “load shedding” activity designed to calm down the monopoly complaints by helping competitors establish market share. My guess is option #1.

      The XP situation is 90% a business practices problem, only 10% technology. They could fix much of this by making XP the same price and procedure as 2000. I suspect we will see a highly modified approach to XP when it bombs miserably in Q1 2002. Like any other product that sits in the warehouse as “shelfware”, it will be blown out at a discount to raise cash and make room for new things.

      With the XP initiative, M$ has awakened the sleeping giants of the software world (both customers and suppliers) in a Pearl Harbor sort of way. The XP release is October 25, 2001 — A date which will live in infamy!

    • #3722001

      sheep mentality

      by becki ·

      In reply to Is this the beginning of the end for MS?

      I completely agree with you, but do you really think the public is smart enough to go through that entire thought process? What about the 30 million people that STILL use AOL, even though it still sucks, and yet is more expensive than its competitors?

      • #3721854

        No Tech Savy

        by cjburkha ·

        In reply to sheep mentality

        Becki hit the nail on the head. I think most of you over estimate the average users tech savy, it really is very very low. People talk about installing Red Hat, I know of people who retuned new Dell computers because they could not figure out how put them together! I realize moste people here probalby build their own computers, but a new dell has 5 wires, the keyboard and mouse and printer are color coded. Put the green cord into the green slot, and turn on. Thats it! And many many people are completetly confused about this. Many tech people forget that technology is supposed to be as seemless as possible. I just got done working on the American Express Finacial Advisors account, we serviced 10,000+ Financial Advisors, most of whome know nothing about technology, nor should they, they should manage my money, I’ll fix the computer. Try to tell these people to export their mail file from Outlook ’98 to Outlook 2000, and it will literally take them 4 hours, which is why MS does it automatically. What we in the tech industry consider to be overloaded, unneeded features in MS products, most end users need desperatly.


        • #3721786

          No Tech Savvy

          by rawright ·

          In reply to No Tech Savy

          You must know my users – you certainly are describing them accurately. Although I am encouraging them to avoid the XP line and look into other products, I doubt that many will. I am, however, strongly supporting a change for our company’s systems. Enough of Microsoft’s defective, overpriced products and their refusal to provide support. The new licensing scam is the final straw.

          I’m looking forward to learning and using Linux.

        • #3709334

          Little help from Jolly Roger

          by dkurdin ·

          In reply to No Tech Savvy

          No product will be popular if its not pushed hard enough. I think someone must be in charge and this is not the case with open source software. Yes I think Bill charges a little too much and some people, especially in some not so well-off countries,can not afford it. Thank God there are Robins in software forest. Who take from the rich and give to the poor. I can buy the latest and greatest from Bill for as much as 2$ per CD. Isn’t great?
          P.S. English is my second language don’t flame me, you, american boys.

        • #3709333

          Little help from Jolly Roger

          by dkurdin ·

          In reply to No Tech Savvy

          No product will be popular if its not pushed hard enough. I think someone must be in charge and this is not the case with open source software. Yes I think Bill charges a little too much and some people, especially in some not so well-off countries,can not afford it. Thank God there are Robins in software forest. Who take from the rich and give to the poor. I can buy the latest and greatest from Bill for as much as 2$ per CD. Isn’t great?
          P.S. English is my second language don’t flame me, you, american boys.

        • #3709332

          Little help from Jolly Roger

          by dkurdin ·

          In reply to No Tech Savvy

          No product will be popular if its not pushed hard enough. I think someone must be in charge and this is not the case with open source software. Yes I think Bill charges a little too much and some people, especially in some not so well-off countries,can not afford it. Thank God there are Robins in software forest. Who take from the rich and give to the poor. I can buy the latest and greatest from Bill for as much as 2$ per CD. Isn’t great?
          P.S. English is my second language don’t flame me, you, american boys.

        • #3709331

          Little help from Jolly Roger

          by dkurdin ·

          In reply to No Tech Savvy

          No product will be popular if its not pushed hard enough. I think someone must be in charge and this is not the case with open source software. Yes I think Bill charges a little too much and some people, especially in some not so well-off countries,can not afford it. Thank God there are Robins in software forest. Who take from the rich and give to the poor. I can buy the latest and greatest from Bill for as much as 2$ per CD. Isn’t great?
          P.S. English is my second language don’t flame me, you, american boys.

        • #3709330

          Little help from Jolly Roger

          by dkurdin ·

          In reply to No Tech Savvy

          No product will be popular if its not pushed hard enough. I think someone must be in charge and this is not the case with open source software. Yes I think Bill charges a little too much and some people, especially in some not so well-off countries,can not afford it. Thank God there are Robins in software forest. Who take from the rich and give to the poor. I can buy the latest and greatest from Bill for as much as 2$ per CD. Isn’t great?
          P.S. English is my second language don’t flame me, you, american boys.

    • #3721832

      Microsoft may not be out of it

      by ghall ·

      In reply to Is this the beginning of the end for MS?

      One thing to consider, how long will people wait out Microsoft if a new popular software program comes out, particularly one that is not compatible with all the old versions of windows? I personally know quite a few people who would upgrade windows, if only to be able to use the newest and latest version of some beloved program. Look at the past record with software like Photoshop and other programs. So, what happens when the new software no longer supports windows 95/98 or 2000? If they want to use the updated versions, they will be forced to upgrade to Windows XP! I for one, will not be one of those people though.

      • #3722468

        supporting legacy software

        by amedee ·

        In reply to Microsoft may not be out of it

        And what when it goes the other way around?
        Should I support end users that use our software, and have switched to XP? Even though our software is not certified for XP? Some of our software is mission-critical, suppose it ceases functioning on XP, what then?

        Btw I work for a small software company (<50 employees of which <10 software programmers) so keeping up with M$ is not so easy.

        • #3709580

          The out cry

          by andrewsbm ·

          In reply to supporting legacy software

          If you remember back to when win95 was released most IT people thought it was a joke and there were stories of warehouses full of win95 product that just was not moving. As you have seen it did move with time and I think the same will happen here. There is/will be a huge out cry of big bad bill fighting for that last dollar in your pocket to fix that continual lighting problem within his dream home of the future, but in the end everyone will move to XP and beyond. There are to many end users out there that like it and to be honest that is who bill is targeting he knows that?s where the future is with mobile workers, internet, home users.

        • #3709349

          Micro$oft indeed…

          by addam moody ·

          In reply to The out cry

          I must admit, between the already much-hated winXP, and the appaling new licensing issues, it makes me wonder when Mr. Gates’ head is going to be on the $100 bills.

          Microsoft’s apparent policy on what can only be described as “Forced” software upgrades
          never ceases to amaze me, particularly when you look at the case of the gentleman running WFW 1.1 and Excel 3.0, which were perfect for his needs, and yet he was unable to continue using these products on a newer platform.
          It seems to me that MS want to be in a position to dictate to users exactly which OS and what office software they have to run on their systems – no doubt under penalty of death being gates’ grand vision.

          That said, the earlier post stating that what microsoft aredoing is merely good business strategy does indeed hold water. Although us techies may be getting frustrated with MS, your average ‘illiterate’ end-user really has no problem with it – allbeit until they hit a snag like using their old software on anew platform.

          Is Microsoft destined to go the way of the Dodo? In all honesty, i dont think anyone is in a position to tell. We all know that huge companies have withered and died virtually overnight, the australian computer ‘giant’ Osborne was agood indication of that, but MS’ stranglehold on the market at present shows no signs of relaxing. It may well be that public opinion will rise against them, but winXP being the catalyst? New licensing being the proverbial ‘straw that broke the camel’s back’ ?
          Id say most likely is that there is truth to this theory of impending demise for MS, but not to the extent that the *nix lovers of the world would like…
          I think you might have a longer wait on your hands than you are hoping for my friends.

          Addam Moody
          Support Desk Engineer
          ComputerCorp PTY LTD.

      • #3711112

        Or hardware

        by epepke ·

        In reply to Microsoft may not be out of it

        What’s going to happen when hardware breaks and drivers for new hardware isn’t available?

        I hear a lot of people saying that they aren’t going to upgrade any time soon. Silly people! Who cares if it’s soon? MS has been in business for a quarter of a century. They don’t care what you do in the next 45 minutes or even in the next year or two.

    • #3711413

      Early Release of Windows XP

      by oversold ·

      In reply to Is this the beginning of the end for MS?

      Microsoft May Accelerate Release of Windows XP, ZDNet Reports
      By Rachel Katz

      Redmond, Washington, Aug. 8 (Bloomberg) — Microsoft Corp. will let computer makers ship desktop and laptop computers with its Windows XP operating system as soon as late September, earlier than its official Oct. 25 debut, the ZDNet News Web site reported, citing unnamed people close to PC makers.

      It’s not clear how quickly consumers will be able to receive the computers because the testing process for the new operating system may be more complicated than that of earlier systems, ZDNet said. Microsoft said it is on schedule to introduce the product Oct. 25 and wouldn’t comment further, ZDNet reported, citing Jim Cullinan, Windows XP’s lead production manager.

      Microsoft might be able to avoid injunctions on the new product by shipping it early. New rulings in the federal antitrust suit against Microsoft could include such an injunction, ZDNet said, citing Andy Gavil, an antitrust professor with Howard University’s School of Law.

      Early shipments would allow computer makers to start the fourth quarter with upgrades to XP, ZDNet said, citing Toni Duboise, an analyst with ARS Inc.

      (ZDNet 8-8)

    • #3708732

      Beginning of the end.

      by admin ·

      In reply to Is this the beginning of the end for MS?

      I suppose, by definition, it may have been as soon as it started. Is the XP outcry all that different from previous ones? We will know for sure in retrospect, but where did they really start to fall?
      Perhaps MS really ended when there was no one to acquire a cheap new exciting os from to resale.
      Maybe they ended when Mr. Gates became a humanitarian. Maybe they ended when a comet struck the Earth, or perhaps when we were inhaled by a normal sized dog from a distant, yet oddly near, dimension. It’s so hard to predict really.

      • #3708039

        Beginning ‘o End

        by epepke ·

        In reply to Beginning of the end.

        This is not the beginning of the end.

        Nor is it the end of the beginning.

        But it just might be the beginning of the end of the beginning of the end of the beginning.

        (Apologies to Winston Churchill. No, wait! He’s dead already.)

    • #3618748

      YouCry Baby

      by lawrence.o.parker ·

      In reply to Is this the beginning of the end for MS?

      Sounds like you need to go back using a hammer and chisel! You want it free, use LINUX. Although not perfect I find Microsoft products work much better than the alternatives. I for one am sick and tired of all the cry babies that have nothing better in life to do than bash Microsoft.

Viewing 10 reply threads