IT Career... an oxymoron???

I agree with your view about certifications to point. The experience portion will become evident when a new hire has to keep asking how to perform a specific task over and over. In other words, the learning curve was never mastered.

I see certifications as recognition by an outside source that a person does in fact possess certain skills in the field that was tested. A certification is like a shoehorn - it will help get your foot in the door. It's just up to the individual to impress with experience once there.

I know some people who have all the certifications you would ever want but are dumber than a box of rocks while others claim they just can't pass the test. I personally think some are afraid of failing while others are afraid of loosing the money if they fail to pass the test. It's a risk. So's life! Enjoy.

If you are over 38 (see Hall v. Best Buy), you are in the wrong field if you are in IT. My best advice? Learn how to cook bratwurst out of a weenie wagon, or back to school for a degree that will lead to professional licensure, and the ability to hang out one's own shingle.

Since the IT firm I work for never has us contractors on anything steady, I've picked up work with an attorney as a paralegal, a career I thought I had left behind.

Soon as practicable, it's back to school for a BA in business and a MS in Psychology.

... although there is a nice used weenie wagon, decked out with Italian Sausage signs for sale locally for only $9,500 ....

Just the fact that you appear to think that problems related to 2-digit years at the turn of the century were not a "legitimate" concern would give me pause. That someone's PC wasn't going to blow up wasn't the real issue. Large databases that firms depended on were very real issues. Y2K turned out not to be a huge deal precisely because people took it seriously enough to fix what needed fixing ahead of time. That's something to be proud of this industry for, not to sneer at. And if you're giving potential hirers the impression that you are sneering at one of the things this industry has gotten very right, then you're probably not going to make it to the top of anyone's "want to work with" list. Just imagine someone's HR database spewing nonsense data because all the current employees are showing as being hired in a hear which is later than the current one, and so the calculations for pensions/benefits, etc. won't run. Fun huh?

> Through referrals, my computer line is selling
> well and I anticipate being able to compete with
> some on the "Name Brand" companies within the
> next few years.

Before you decide to take on the likes of Dell, you might wanna take a few minutes and spend a hundred bucks to hire some kid to design a web site for you.

I've applied for many jobs as System Analyst, IT Project Manager, Network Administrator and most also require ASP, PHP, Java and .NET. Since when did a "project manager" or "Network Administrator" need to also be a programmer (with 5 languages no less).

5 years ago, if you had 4 out of 6 job requirements and they like you in interview, you may have been hired. More recently, your lucky if you get hired for having 9 out of 10 things they now want.

Ive been perfectly qualified for a diverse job and got along well with everybody i met in intervierw to the point im saying to myself, how can i NOT get this job, yet no call back and im left scratching my head. I realized its because of the job market and employeers just have too many options.

Despite dam outsourcing, which has really hurt out job market, there are still a lot of IT jobs out there, but like you said, the market is truely saturated with people like us.
It makes me sick when i hear radion commericals advertised to go to school for a career in "the hot IT market" - LOL.

I don?t know what it?s like elsewhere, but in Colorado there are tons of ads on TV and in the papers for several local schools stating that there thousands of IT opportunities available. Either the schools know something we don?t or they are using OLD government stats to make a buck while they can. I believe it?s the latter

> After 30 years in High-tech and at least 6 years
> of IT experience, I pitch pizzas for Domino's !!

That's just flat out ridiculous.
What exactly were you doing during those 30 years in "high tech" and your 6 years of IT?

It's completely ludicrous that somebody with that kind of a background would be working in a pizza joint today.

You're either a complete moron, or you have absolutely no motivation whatsoever. That's the only way I could explain your situation.

So pickleman, what's it like working for Microsoft?

I couldn't agree more with you, especially concerning the age.

There are many "good" young techs out there, but from my experience there's a substantial larger amount of "paper certs" whose only experience is theoretical class work.

Unfortunately, I've passed my late 30's, thereby dooming me to the infamous IT graveyard.

I've considered changing career fields, but friends and close associates strongly disagree with me on this.

Oh yea.... I'll be a grandpa too in March 2005 (definitely wont include that on my resume)

So what is your #1 requirement for selecting a top notch "Manager"? What would your top 3 be?

Say I'm applying to be a IT manager in YOUR company. What skills are most important to YOU.

As a recent graduate with a M.S. in Comp Sci, I am coming from the pretty paper side. I am finding it extremely difficult to compete with everyone that has experience. I've been doing Database Administration/Development for the past two years and I have tried to migrate to the development side and I am hitting road block after road block because I don't have the experience. It's the whole chicken before the egg thing I guess...how do I get experience if no one gives me a chance to get the experience. Enough of my crying. I just want to say that people with the pretty papers are having trouble too.

I'm in the same situation but I'm working on my own to have some income. You may want to try the military or try searching in another state. Some companies will move you. I live in Florida and there are not many IT jobs in my area but I did get a part time IT job making $7.50 an hour. It was a start.
Later,
Henry

I dont want to let this get political but I cant let this kind of misinformation go.
Your comment about Bush being responsible for outsourcing is laughable. President Bush, or any president, has very little control over what companies do. In my opinion goverment should not get involved at all.
Do you realize that the US insources more jobs than it outsources by almost 3 to 1. When in your life, when you lost a job or got a new job, can you say it was related to what the president did.
How about the help desk jobs you are talking about. I have been working in this field for 13 years. I do agree that things were great back several years ago. I feel fortunate that I was ahead of the wave of generic techs out of college. Back then I did not know anyone who wanted to do help desk. Everyone I knew wanted to get the CNE and the MCSE and get the 70k job. What were the companies going to do? No one wants this job, which is really crappy (I have done it). Should they go out of business or should they find people who want to do the job?
People really need to think before they make stupid statements. That is basically the problem. Its so much easier to blame your problems on someone or something else. Oh poor me, I am just a victim, I have no control of my life, I have such bad luck...poor me. People like this make me sick.

My husband has been out of work for almost two years. He has been in IT since 1986, got his MCSE certifications a few months ago, looked for jobs that use PM skills, attended job fairs, and tried getting clients on his own while he looks.

He had high security clearance when he was in the Air Force, but every security clearance job fair requires an active security clearance. There would be many jobs for active and one job allowing inactive that many are competing for.

He'd do teaching, but he doesn't have a college degree. With three kids, he can't go back to school -- he needs a full-time job. It's unbelievable. I never dreamed we would be in this situation two years later.

He has the people and process skills, but that hasn't helped so far.

> So pickleman, what's it like working for
> Microsoft?

I don't work for Microsoft.
I'm self-employed, and I earn a very good living.
I don't whine about Microsoft taking over the world.
Instead, I use them as a resource to help me land more business.
Only an idiot would look at Microsoft as something bad, as opposed to something with all kinds of opportunities.
You don't have to work AT Microsoft in order to make money off them.

Gee, all you folks make me feel grateful for the job I have. I've been doing tech work at a community college for about 5 years now. The pay may not be super high, I never wake up dreading to go to work.

I was lucky enough to walk out of my previous job on Friday, and walk into this one on the next Monday.

Use those temp jobs to leverage yourself into a permanent position. Even working as a contractor, I still look at job postings within the company (MTC) as well as those within the civil service arena.

First, if you have the money and time, go out and get at least one certification: A+, MCSE, CCNA or whatever. Most employers use certifications as the first discriminator during the hiring process, regardless of experience.

Second, if you are so inclined, consider teaching, whether part-time as adjunct faculty, or full-time. While full-time teaching will not usually pay what you could be making in IT (believe me, I know!), I think you will find that it makes you a better tech. Just trying to stay ahead of the students in my A+ classes has kept me current even though my certification is over 5 years old.

Always remembering, of course, that most advice is worth what you pay for it...

Part of what you're seeing is probably that the people whos careers are all roses and sunshine aren't as vocal (typal? writal?) as those who have something to complain about.

It's the same thing as in tech support - it's easy to arrive at the conclusion everything is horrible because of all the calls about problems with the product you are supporting, because nobody ever calls tech support and says, "Hey, just wanted to call and tell you my computer is working perfectly and everything is great here!"

So, yes, there are people who are still employed in IT. Just not as many as there were a few years ago.

And as far as the training vs experience debate, I don't have either. I started in sales, built my own database of customers and sales, and now I spend all day every day building and maintaining a SQL database for everyone else in the company to use. Been doing that for 3 years now. Pay is good, by the standards I'm accustomed to, and the owners of the business say more raises are in order as income increases (we're up 75% over last year, which was up nearly 100% over the year before, which was triple the year before that).

If you want into a big business IT shop, you might have a long ways to go. If you can hook up small businesses with ways to make their sales and production/services more efficient, you probably have a huge opportunity. At least, that's my take on it.

The reply can be taken as calous but I know a lot of people who changed their whole career and are happy. I went into teaching and management after I was laid off. IT people are a dime a dozen and half of them are "paper certs" and couldn't operate a microwave much less a computer. It is a tough market out there for everyone in a lot of fields as the economy and the work force change.

Good luck to you.

Smiths007 pretty much summed it up.

Just to expand a little upon this: these days L1 visas are particularly abused.

No quotas, and all Cognizant or Infosys or Tata has to do is:

a) set up a office in the US
b) get a consulting contract from a US client and
c) request L1 visas from the US government so they can "transfer" "essential" overseas resources to work on this "company project" on a "temporary" basis.

I just finished a consulting project at a client that also had about 50 of these L1 visa workers. These poor folk get sent over here and basically given a (small) cost of living allowance while still getting paid their native country salary.

To make ends meet, they all move into the same apartment, share one car among 5 or 6 people, and prepare and eat shared meals. They all work like slaves, 10-12 hours a day, 6-7 days a week, no complaints, no fuss.

It sounds like a hellish situation to us, but actually most of them are ecstatic just to be in the US.

1) Adopt the Southern Oregon Method, IT is one item in what you do to keep a job. You must have other talents, become a jack of several trades and create your own multiple income stream while filling one job position.

2) Find another career if you can only hack doing one job description at a time. Too many people think they can fit only one slot, ie are a corporate replaceable part.

The real cost of cheap outsourcing bill is in the mail.

dallen:
I agree with you, but I also believe that the consulting business is worth looking at. If you go into it with both eyes open. Get a good understanding of what its going to take from a marketing and sales standpoint. Work on your sales/people skills if need be. Know what your level of technical skills are and market your services accordingly. If you are serious and want to be long term, it will be difficult, but you have to think long term and stick with it. I personally have worked for a large hospital for 6 years in the IT support area. My skills and knowledge have grown immensely, but I am in a dead end job on the support desk spending 90% of my time on the phone. I make over 50K a year, but I hate what i'm doing. I plan on starting a consulting business after the first of the year and my goal is to be full-time in 1 year. 50K may sound good to those who don't have a job, but its awful to stay in a position that you hate, life is too short and the money is just not worth it. I live in Wisconsin and the job market is flat as well. I've done the headhunter route and sent out tons of resumes and not even an interview. a J.O.B. guarantees you nothing in the IT world. If you work for yourself and have a strong passion and desire to succeed, work with clients that you enjoy, find a technology niche your comfortable with and keep your expectations realistic....Then the consulting business can be a lot of fun and highly rewarding. Its not for everyone, but its sure worth considering. As for me, I plan on being long term in the consulting business, you won't find any dead bodies or messes along my trail. Good luck to you....

Being the one that started this discussion, I just had to comment on your moronic post. I was not whining (learn how to spell by the way). I was merely trying to get a feel for what it is like for IT professionals out there. There have been several positive comments and wonderful ideas for those who are experiencing the same problems I am. You are most definitely entitled to your own opinion. However, if you lack the ability to be constructive and offer a well thought out opinion, then please post your comments elsewhere.

Benjamin:

That is why I could not compete as an outside consultant. I am now working as a Network Administrator, making less then I did 20 years ago. Don't get me wrong, I love my job but it isn't nearly as lucrative as it used to be. I believe the price/salary targets are set by these large consulting firms who are getting the contracts, paying "Hamburger Slinging" wages and charging "Manhattan Attorney" prices.

The sad news is that I have been doing this stuff since 1975 and have worlds of experience. And yet it took me quite a while to find suitable employment. Unfortunately, there are people out there that are willing to give their services away to these consulting firms for practically nothing! And what's worse is that they are hired because the have a MSCE or like certificate, but when push comes to shove, they don't know which side is up on a CD!

(I remember hiring a fellow with a fresh CNE certificate. We were setting up a Novell server and I asked him to load PSERVER. He asked me where the disks were. Whew!!!)

I wish you all of the luck in your endeavors!

Marc

Same here my friend.

It might require a move from the AZ area, but here in the DC/N VA area we have pretty much all the big IT compainies. Ours alone, BAE Systems, has over 1000 positions currently open.

I've been with this group for over 10 years now and going strong...

Good luck to you in your search!

I know many people who are experiencing the same frustrations as you. The IT arena is tight IRT jobs; however, sensitive government work is the exception.

There are more positions vacant then people to fill them. One of the reason is many people are not willing to go through a complete background check and take a polygraph. The other reason is many people are not eligible due to their background or problems with the polygraph.

Not familar with opportunities in your current state, but in Virginia and California there are numerious opennings for cleared people. As previsouly stated the first step is the hardest and that is obtaining a sponsor to obtain a clearance.

I would suggest following the advice provided by 'gaskinsro@state.gov' and sending resumes out to the top technology firm's government (public) sector departments with a cover letter stating your willingness to obtain a clearance. Occassionally a company will obtain a sponsor for you and IF YOU obtain a clearance they will hire you.

Keep in mind many of the government organizations have IT shops and they would also be good candidates to send your resume.

Last, do not just rely on posting your resume and sending them to employers. Burn some shoe leather and hand deliver your resume to HR department. If asked, HR might event provide you with a POC in the organization entity that uses your skill set.

Get used to family oriented businesses. We have been living in family groups since the beginning of time, and the economic situation we are in now guarantees that unless you are in a large corporation, you are in a smaller group that is trying to keep its family members fed, the original reason for businesses and small enterprises to exist.

Nepotism is the giving of jobs to nephews by definition, in actuality the giving of jobs to celibate males usually not related to the holder of power. It is a tactic used by religious powers to guarantee that the old boys at the top will not be superceded by someone trying to establish a dynastic line that takes over control by right of birth, THE EXACT OPP0SITE OF WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING.

Benjamin, you are right. the IT job pool is bursting wide open with super/over qualified people. I am the VP of Professional Services for a VAR/Consulting firm in Silicon Valley. Business is good, but not in California or the surrounding states. Currently, 80% of our business is conducted in the Mid-West or East Coast.

When I post a job rec for one consultant, I'll get 250 resumes, most of which do even have the skills, (a lot of engineers blindly send their resumes out). Of the 75 qualified resumes, most have 15-20 years experience, so most times, anyone under 10 years experience never gets looked at because we've already found a more experienced consultant.

We do have a job rec in the Phoenix area for a MCSE with some WAN experience coming up in Feburary 2005. We are also looking for expereinced IT Professional Services SALES people across the nation. Most of our recs are posted on dice.com. And just so everyone knows, we are not a headhunting company.

Please feel free to forward your resume.

Thank you,
Barry Bestpitch
VP of Professional Services
T: (408) 720-8899 x123
F: (408) 720-8848
ComteqUSA, Inc.
www.comtequsa.com

Were you being funny?

Try being in the woodworking industry in Oregon. Diversify or change what you do often to keep multiple income streams. It's nice to read about all the city dwellers who think they can keep one career all their life and never change. At least in the city, there are obviously more resources available to feed you than there are out here in the third growth timber where it's diversify or go on welfare.

I think I got your message, however, it was awkward and painful to read.

see above

People act so pedantic, when they don't know what they are talking about. ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY SHOUT ABOUT IT.

Agreed, the word "nepotism" is derived from the French word for nephew, but it is defined as "Favoritism shown or patronage granted to relatives, as in business," or similar words, by just about any dictionary you can open.

On H1b Visas stating that they cannot find anyone qualified to perform the work?

Or are they different companies?

I'd be willing to say that a large part of the fortune 500 companies on one hand are still bringing in H1b IT personnel (or outsourcing the work offshore), while on the other hand, turning down qualified applicants because they don't have any openings.

Would anyone agree? Is this a possibility? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Its hard keeping a positive outlook in the IT job market today. My experience in all of this is very frustrating. I have used just about every staffing agency in the Orlando Florida and found nothing. I go for an interview then I don't hear from them at all. I call as a follow-up and they tell me nothing is available or send me another updated resume. (What happend to the first one?)One staffing agency I went to for an interview said in very little words I was to old and to remove my military experience from my resume. Another said through a 3rd party since I am bilingual it was detrimental. So far it has been a year and I have not landed an IT job. I have done contracting work for awhile but that went out the door because of politics between my boss and his supervisor. Last, I got my A+, Net+, Security+, and MCSE I still found nothing except for $8.00 jobs. I am running out of patient and getting desperate my unemployment has run out and don't know what to do. Its depressing I hope it gets better in 2005.

The definition of nepotism that you gave was used in the days of old, but not in today's society. Have you been living in a cave?

The new strategy then is to get a new boyfriend/girlfriend in the business...

How many love slaves do you think Bill Gates has?

I was tired of being "down-sized" every 4 -5 years, so I started my own company in the KC area. Started with 4 National Service providers, advertised locally and it grew! Now, I work full time for one of those companies and maintain a group of local Dentist Offices. If your experienced and willing to work hard, you'll make it. Word of mouth is very powerful advertising!

I got layed off after 17 years of being a government employee. I was unemployed for 7 months before landing a job in the private sector. I can tell you - government employees are just as intelligent & hard working as private sector people. And it's thinking like yours (that government employees have it made)that made it so difficult to find another job. Have you taken a serious look at available government jobs lately? There are very few! They are outsourcing and downsizing just like the private sector.

Currently I think the majority of IT work is outsourced to domestic temporary workers on an as needed basis. I've worked for about 4 years as an employee of IT consultant firms billing clients between $125 to $175 per hour for project work.

I recently relocated to another state and briefly looked for new employment and didn't find many opportunities as a full-time employee.

I did several short-term contract jobs for national IT recruiters who pay between $15 and $20 an hour and offer maybe 6 hours a week of work! Not enough to live on.

My solution is this: start my own IT consultant firm and bill the client between $125 and $175 an hour - so far Iv'e landed a few short-term contract jobs but I'm making 5X the hourly rate so I don't need to scramble to work 40+ hours a week to get by.

Many people posting here claim they're well qualified. If that's the case, then go directly to the company and offer your expertise at the market rate for your area.

Everyone knows there's plenty of work out there to get done and everyone knows that most of the needed work doesn't get done properly.

Don't blame the companies if they decide not the hire several full-time IT employees at $60,000 a year plus benefits. It's cheaper for them to hire consultants on an as-needed basis.

Thanks for the offer! I won't be turning down any leads right now. I'm just starting my search in earnest...probably at the wrong time of year... live and hopefully work in St. Louis. Looking for Admin, jr. Admin, Hardware support, and if necessary phone support(13th worst job reported by Popular Science Magazine). A very interesting thread. I'm generally impressed with the comments and the employment help offered by many contributors. Thanks Zlito and the others for posting!

I have been involved in "IT" since before it was "DP". As with everything else, our salaries and expectations increased more than our "productivity". We must remember that we all have but one purpose. That is to help our organization make a PROFIT on a product or service (unless of course we work for the "government"). ie I'm from the government and I'm here to help you! Ha Ha.

For those of us who really are interested in producing for our employer/client, there will always be an opportunity. Sometimes the "marketing effort" to find the job and make the sale is much greater than the product or service. We are all salesmen first and "producers" next.

When an outsourcer can provide what we do for $2 an hour, we must be able to change what we do in some way so that our employer or customer will perceive that they are receiving value for their expense. Everyone has a different skill set but with intelligence and imagination, you can make a change.

An old mentor told me many decades ago that when I was looking for a problem and could not find the solution, I was either looking in the wrong place or was too close to the problem. Look elsewhere and/or get advice/assistance from someone else that you trust.

There is NO golden solution to this problem. The solution is unique and within yourself. Find comfort in the fact that 10 years from now, the problem is going to be something else and we will have the opportunity to "create a solution" once again.

I don't understand why you are so negative regarding certifications. There are good and bad in every profession. But certification does serve a useful purpose and contrary to what you make out real IT pros do pursue and respect certifications.

I?ve worked in IT for some 16 years progressing from 2nd level support to technical engineer to supervisor. I?m currently back working as an engineer because of this soft IT market. I have hands on experience with PC, printer and peripheral break/fix, installation and configuration. I stated in DOS learning the command line and the arcane memory management of 640K and upper-memory. My first forays into scripting were DOS batch files and text menuing. I?ve worked closely with and seen the changes from Novell to NT to W2K. And my experience does not stop there. I could write on and on about what I have done with servers, web infrastructure, email (client and MTA) and networking. The point is that I have the experience and am recognized for that experience.

Certifications are a way to highlight to someone that experience. In today?s cutthroat market potential employers, recruiters or customers are not always going to take the time to understand what experience you really have (heck often they won?t understand it in the first place). They will however appreciate that you have taken the time and shown the ambition to continue your professional development. Certifications bring this to the forefront.

I agree with you certifications or degrees without experience can not do it on their own. It?s really three step process; education, certification and experience

I experienced the same situation 2 years ago. After a complex project to integrate multiple plants together into a centralized AS400 Data Center, I was suddenly on the street after 20 years in IT. I spent the next 13 months seeking employment in IT, interviewing and getting nowhere (other than depressed and frustrated).

From one of my interviews I was offered an opportunity to work at a small HVAC company to setup their in-house accounting system. Although a significant step down from where I came from, it was work, it was interesting and they treated me with a certain degree of respect due to my background and experience.

I soon discoverd, that like most of us IT professionals, I knew a fair amount about how companies run, how accounting really works and how to manage diverse groups of people and how business process really work in the typical company.

After 3 months at the company I was offered the position of General Manager with profit sharing and a nice 401K package. I thought about it for at least 2 minutes and accepted.

So here I am, a displaced IT guy who now deals with management issues, bottom-line improvement issues, personnel issues and an exciting opportunity to make some changes to a company that hadn't made a significant change in the way they did business in over 20 years.

All in all, it's been a good year, albeit diferent and I'm looking forward to 2005. It may be that a dramatic paradigmn shift in our lives is sometimes best handled by a pragmatic approach to the problem.

The best to you in 2005

I recently graduated with a BS in Information Systems. I've had about 2 years of experience doing general support/installations/upgrades. No one seems to be hiring unless you have at least 3 years of specialized experience, a BS, and certifications. I can't afford to earn any certifications right now. I've been on Monster.com every week applying for an average of 3-4 jobs weekly. Only once have I received a job offer, which was only for $9/hour and an hour away from home. I just wish I could give myself more experience.

Back in '98 I got involved in web development in an attempt to avoid the inevitable crash after Y2K. I figgured with all the people being pumped out of colleges and tech schools to deal, specifically, with Y2K, that field would dry up quick. I managed to dodge that bullet ... right into the path of another. oops.

Well, in '99 I moved to Seattle to find a better paying job, and, with a good skillset and ability to learn quickly for just the cost of an O'Reilly book, I quickly moved up to making $60k/year and getting reccomendations from former co-workers. Life was good and I was living it up until the "DotCom bubble" popped and I found myself working at a gas station that didn't even pay enough to cover my rent.

Suffice to say, that didn't last long, and I found myself penniless and living on the streets for some time. Eventually I was forced to come back home.

I increased my skill set doing free work for friends and non-profit organizations while I looked for work. Now I work as an independant contractor, or under my company name (same difference), and struggle to keep my bills paid between contracts.

I have some good contacts in the tech field, as well as contacts in government and the military, and I still find myself going 6 months or more between contracts. In the end many companies who are looking to hire full time will hire someone with less experiance because they feel they can pay them less. Before all this happened, I never thought I'd see the day when having an impressive resume and decent experiance would count against me. lol

On the up side of all this, I've learned how to manage my money, not to mention that being homeless taught me that your friends aren't always who you think they are, and good friends can be all you need.

--
worm22
"I've seen so many ships sail in, just to head back out again and go on sinkin'"

There are lots of people with similar stories. I have an acquaintance who has experience and all of the right letters after his name, including MBA, and he has had one interview in three solid years of job-hunting.

In the current situation it's more critical than usual that you tick every box on the emplyer's wishlist, as filtered through whatever agency they use. If the client says "MCSE essential" and you don't have an MCSE then that job is a lost cause. Find a way to tick more boxes.

The client might well consider you, but you can't reach the client through any agency working to that brief. Employers, please note: specify precisely what you need in your agency briefs.

The good news is that the job market (at least here in the UK) is more active than it has been for years.

Security is the key. You can not outsource or offer security jobs to foriegn nationals with H-1Bs, if you are truely interested in maintaining your systems security. So learn what you can about cybersecurity. Liberals are more concern with social issues than the bottom line. They protect you (the worker).

well I do know where you are comming from!
I to have time on my side with computers and I cant do ......... If you know what I mean!
People treat me like I am nothing but now If a Mexican or somone from Inia coes around then they get the work!
I think It Is sick when we sit here and complain that our kids have no where to go and smoke crack and other drugs all day but can you really blame them?
there are no jobs for them! they have all gone to India!
What are they supposed to do and where are they are going to find work!
Now tell me that?
How In the .......... are we supposed to tell our kids to go out and find work and their Is no work here?

My father worked 35 years for the same corporation. We live in a different world now and most people will have 5 careers before retiring. I would say most IT grey beards got into IT later in life as a second or third career in the 80s-90s when things were hot. For those who have been through reinvention already it's fairly easy, just find another skill market and learn in that direction, add it to IT and mechanics or whatever else you already have. I feel for the pure IT folks who came right out of college into IT. This may be the first tiem you have had to reinvent yourselves.

A few years back I walked away from a Sr. Network Admin position, 75,000 a year. I thought it would be easy finding another position until reality set in. I was off a year looking for something in the IT field. What I found was competition was fierce, there was lots of other people just like me...Now I am the IT Manager for a company with unlimited growth and a huge upside..I actually like my job again and the people I work with..What I did....I got mad, there is no Indian, Russian, Chinese I have to play second fiddle to...American IT Employers are cutting their own throats and good times will once again come back for IT people and the IT Employers will pay a high price when it does..Advice, don't forget what got you to the point you are, dedication,team work, hard work are hard values that you can not put a value on..America is in a big state of decline and the people to blame are our elected officials..

The problem is the IT job market is full of unqualified people. An experienced technical person is going to demand a high salary and needs to have the same professional appearance, work ethic, intelligence, and courtesy as a similarly paid employee in any other field. IT was the hot job market a few years ago and it paid really well, so it attracted people and now there is fierce competition for the best jobs. Maybe you need to make some personal changes or consider a lower paying position in the IT field if you aren't getting hired.

I have tried to hire a field tech (read Network Engineer) recently and I have been bombarded with resumes from and interviews with:

1) Stubborn IT Pro. Usually from government or a big company who has seen it all, but still got fired or quit his last job because there were too many changes or he had to do it someone else's way. Here's a candidate with the experience I need who just told me he is going to do it his way and I can get bent. These guys are great with clients! Clients love to hear the word "no" and "can't"! Their tendancy to always think inside THEIR box makes them especially ineffective in finding answers to new problems and working with new technology.

2) Raggedy Andy. This guy can be smart and experienced, old or young, but his appearance or behavior makes him tech bench material only. Whether its the coffee and cigarrette rumpled look, the sandals and greasy hair look, or just a mumbling problem, these guys are the best for impressing your next client. Critical data and expensive systems should be worked on by people who are so absorbed by technology that they can't address their poor grooming habits and quirky personalities, right?

3) The Trained Monkey. This person is highly qualified to follow directions from a checklist. The experience gained from doing 1000 workstation migrations from GroupWise to Exchange makes this candidate worthy to run wild on all of your servers. I mean, they have like, 1 whole year of Exchange and GroupWise experience, and oh yeah, like since they changed the backup tapes too, they know Windows 2000 Server and BackupExec.

4) The Jumper! Nothing says wasted training and productivity like the resume with 5 jobs in the past 5 years. This person is great for leaving you in a bind and maybe taking a client or two with him when he decides to start his own business. Even cuter is a combo of 3 and 4 - the Jumping Trained Monkey!

5) The Negative Creep. Looks good on paper but has nothing good to say about anything. This is the guy who types M$ for Microsoft. He hates particular brands of hardware and software. He hates it when this and he hates it when that. He probably hates you too.

6) Tech Skool Guy. I used to throw these away. Now I consider them. No joke. Alot of these people have serious interest in improving themselves, learning, and they are willing to work and even pay for the opportunity. Most of these schools are ripoffs, and some graduates are looking for what they thought was easy money, but some are smart and professional. And sometimes its easier to take a person with all of the qualities you are looking for and teach them technology than it is to deal with the negatives of an experienced IT person.

I had some fun writing this, but I know that many of you are out of work and this isn't a laughing matter. IT is still a hot market, but the high pay and slack requirements for employees is gone now. You will find a job if you really work at it and you have the necessary qualifications - not just experience - the whole package! If you are expecting it to be as easy as 5-10 years ago, forget it! To make $60k a year you are going to have to look, act, and produce like people making that same money in other fields - and that can be tough! Be realistic when considering your experience. Find and work on your problem areas. If you are doing NOTHING but looking for a job, volunteer as an intern at a COUPLE of local companies. If you are worth a darn you will probably intern yourself into a position.

After reading this post by davesims2, I was about to add a lengthy response very similar to what you wrote! You have mirrored my thoughts completely. Shame on me for not getting a MCSE? Please. As Pickelman so correctly pointed out, they are not worth the paper they are printed on. IN MOST CASES. To me, and this is just me bear in mind, not getting on MCSE has become a matter of principle for me. When I got my first "real" IT job, I had the pleasure of working with a couple of guys who were certified. They were contractors. They basically knew all about theory and all that but when it came to hands on, they didn't have a clue. Despite my attempt to teach them the practial aspects, they had an air of superiority because of their piece of paper and my lack of said piece of paper. Well, when I joined, the department was in shambles. Calls were not getting completed. If they were it was half ass so they were reopened and they just sat there. The customers were unhappy and it was a mess. Well, long story short, they did not last long. Sorry went off on a tangent there.

At the end of the day certifications are great and (if done the honest way) they require a lot of work to obtain. It must infuriate those who obtain their certifications legitimately when someone gets certified the easy way.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that practical experience speaks for itself at the end of the day. It would be nice if employers could remember that when deciding who they are going to interview and/or give a job to. It is easy to become blind sided by the obsession of certifications and degrees. Basically, give everyone an equal shot.

I rambled a bit there but I think you all see my point.

Find a good agency and go contracting - the money can vary from average to very good, but the main thing is the chance for a permanent position.
The majority of contracting jobs I have done eventually led to an offer of a permanent position - it makes sense for a company to employ someone who they know and who knows their systems.
My current job - I moved to Edinburgh for a 3 month contract replenishing desktop hardware, was kept on for 12 months contracting doing systems admin and was then offered my current full-time job as Systems admin - best thing is that they offered me well over the current market salary just to make sure my knowledge stayed with them.
I've now been here for 2 years.

Benjamin,
You sound just like me. I feel your pain. I have been around since 1990. In all those years, this (2001 - now) has been the worst time for our field to find work.

My only advise (this being the most successful), is talk to everyone and anyone that you are out of work and need a job. Do not be ashamed. It truely is not what you know but who you know. All the jobs I have had is through people I know. In some instances, I knocked on doors with my tail between my legs. Those types of "searches" yield the best results. Monster, .com, hotjobs, local head hunters (they can be good), direct company websites, etc are mostly useless.

If, however, you have tried friends, neighbors, strangers at parties, the mailman, etc, and have had no luck, don't be afraid to persue another career. I know a lot of people in our field that have done this and have done better.

I wish you luck, and you are definitely not alone.
-treilly

I have not found this to be a problem in my area even though it is one of the less populated areas of CA. IT jobs are available but you may not get picked up on a few interviews. Just keep pushing on and hone your interviewing and tech portfolio and you will make it.

VOTE,

I used to think I was safe. I had little sympathy for mill workers. Then our jobs started going overseas in HUGH numbers.

The company I worked for was purchased by a foreign firm. One of their stated objects was jobs in their country. Mine went there. I am also 56. Try explaining to the 26 year old personnel manager that your experience is worth something.

We were told work hard, get an education, do your job. Truth is it no longer works. IT workers today are the mill workers of the last century.

I don't know where companies think their customers will come from when the only jobs left here are flipping hamburgers and these jobs don't pay enough to buy their products. Management seems entirely focused on the short term. We now have record amounts of our currency held by foreign countries. What will happen to our economy and way of life when they decide they no longer value our currency and want to switch it for something else. I am also an enginneer. This is clearly not a stable system.

The future looks very grim to me. IT expertise is the mill work of the 70s, 80s and 90s. You are destined to follow the mill worker. Ask what they are doing today. Perhaps ask the greeter at WalMart what he/she used to do and see your future.

We must view some industries as strategic and must grow and support them. The WTO seems absolutely opposed to this. Our taxes pay hugh subsidies in agriculture. Why, because at one time we viewed agricultural production as strategic. Steel, textiles and other durable goods manufacturing in the U.S. has virtually ceased to exist. They were not subsidised. Look to the past and see your future.

Hi all, what Im doing right now is keep on looking for a job in this area or see what are the options that i receive... eg sales engineer... or what else i wanna look for... like for example systems auditing

Hi, Ben:

Maybe it's time for you to consider getting out of IT completely.

I currently work for a major US bank doing build packaging and ClearCase support, but this is not my first occupation... I'm 42 and have had three previous careers. I was a journeyman electrician for a few years, then I spent 5 years working in advertising as a sax player (fully employed), and after that 13 years as a mechanical engineer servicing commercial exercise equipment. I only got involved with IT because I needed a desk job (knees giving out, bad back and 4 hernia surgeries as a result of lifting heavy equipment all the time), so I ended up working for the phone company for several years, took some Unix and C programming classes at night school, and now I suppport code installs for a major U.S. bank. It's a fun job and I love my work, but since all my friends have been laid off in recent years I went back to school and studied Spanish, real estate law and now I'm about to take a night class in refrigeration repair. I am fully expecting to be unemployed sometime next year and I'm already preparing for yet another career outside of IT.

So this could be a hidden opportunity - even though employment problems are unsettling and stressful, I think they also create excellent opportunities for growth and exploration.

Just my .02,

-->S.

I've had to do the same thing, but with my own money.. It's been 2 years and I'm just now starting to make decent money.

I hate to give advice, but this has been my experience:

Put up a simple website with lots of content to establish yourself as an expert in your field. Offer great tips, suggest various software/hardware, review new products at least once a week.. Just give people a place they can go for excellent info. Once people start to realize you know your stuff, start a website for your company and link it to your content site. It doesn't cost much and now that people trust you and your name is out there, the client list will grow.

Trust me.. starting your own consulting firm is NOT easy, but it's well worth it if you put the time into it. I'm starting to get at least 50% of my new clients through word-of-mouth referals and believe me.. those are the best clients to have.

Mike

Hi Everybody,

The problem that Ben is experiencing is just the tip of the IceBerg. I have a great job in IT working for a very small company. My job is secure because I work in the defense industry. Obviously everybody can't have a job in defense. I really don't need to worry about my job, but I do worry about people like Ben that can't find a decent job. This will eventually affect all of us.

Our whole economy (the middle class) is being assaulted everyday. We flood the country with illegal immigrants (Mr. Bush), allow corporation to export our jobs and industry to China and India (Mr. Bush), and hand out H1B visas like candy (Mr. Bush) to folks from India and China. I'm no liberal, in fact I'm pretty conservative, but I'm also a nationalist, especially an economic nationalist.

Lets look at the illegal immigrant issue. You have people crying that the illegals are just taking jobs that ordinary citizens don't want. That true for some jobs, but not all of them period. Remember in the old days that being a carpenter, contruction worker or a meat packer used to be a good paying job. Not anymore, because the corporation (the bottom line) hire cheat illegal labor to do both. Who in the hell wants to bake in the sun building houses for $5 an hour. I haven't notice that housing prices have drop with this cheap labor. The only thing that has dropped it the quality of the construction. Same with the meat packers, you hear all the time about e-coli contamination of our meat. Do you ever wonder why? I'll tell you why, because the illegal aliens don't know how to cut the meat instead of the intestines of the cow!!!!

Lets talk about outsourcing our jobs and industry to China and India. Here the politicians say thats a good thing. It's easy for a millionaire to say how wonderful that is. When you go shopping take a look and see how many items are made in China. Pretty much everything. The Chinese aren't the ones developing these goods, it the corporations that are closing our factories and moving them to China (with slave labor). The good paying jobs are disappearing, especially in the blue collar area. Mr. Bush can say that the ecomony is great, B.S. the jobs that are being created don't pay the same amount in the past.

Jobs are being outsource and its growing everyday.

Call Center jobs being outsource to India, Phillipines, everywhere. Try calling Dell tech support.

IT jobs are being outsource, you read that everyday.

H1B visa's being issued. Corporations say they can't find experienced American labor. No, they don't want to pay for American labor.

I used to build PCs for a living. When that market ceased to turn a profit, I turned to IT and made a good living during the "boom". In 2001, I found myself in the same boat as the thread originator. Now, I manufacture candles, homemade soap and lotions to the tune of six figures after taxes.

One of my professors used to say, "If what you are doing is not working, do something else." Or, you could just whine about it until the bills come due.

In the early 80's, I got a degree in Chemistry. I've never worked a day directly in Chemistry since then. Later I got a Masters in Operation Research. I've had a couple of related jobs, but nothing directly tied to OR.

So my "wasted" education has gotten me a very senior position in IS. I have no certs, no IS courses to speak of, and certainly no IS degree. I'm not even certain that I can claim that I like "IS" work. However, I love managing change, I love a challenge, and I adore a good math problem.

I'm good at what I do and my education helped get me here. It is hard to connect the dots and see the line that went from there to here.

Is it only a select few that noticed that so many were entering the IT trend 5 yrs back? It was pretty obvious the market would become saturated at some point. Sorry that's not the reply you likely expected.

If you are good at what you do, you should be able to develop a reputation for your abilities. Then if you are the cream of the crop, you may find many positions available. Unfortunately, no-one really wants the milk and folks can be choosy cause IT chaps are a dime a dozen. If you can weather the storm and hone your skills (possibly diversify) many of the drag will fall away with time. If time is a factor for you, then you either have to be very good or change profession.

Hope for the best
Arthur

I work in IT in Arizona, and for some reason, I see the exact opposite. We can't find any GOOD IT people. Maybe, there is a personel reason why some people can't find an IT job.

The only Oxymoron in the IT world is you. Apparently you haven't been looking in the right area. My advice is that you either go thru a IT recruiter or an IT consulting company. The IT Market for better or worse is chnaging. Alot of us fellow TECHIES have learned to adapt to our changing environment. The biggest problem with the IT job market is that there are alot of umemployed IT people who should never have been in the Technology field in the first place. I have worked and ran into many wannabe Techies who think they know what they are doing. There's too many people who ran into the IT field because, back in the early 90's during the so-called Dot.coms era. IT was the field to be in. So, what we have are alot of people who took a computer class called networking 101 and got a certificate making them think they are IT knowledgeable. Basically what we are seeing is a job market that is not like it used to be. So, what's happening is that all these unemployed wannabe Techie guys are competing for the same jobs as are some very knowledgeable guys such as yourself. Be patient, the right job will come around, but for now continue doing phone support for now. A Techie job is better than not having one. So don't complain.

Every company is "trimming the fat" and making the remaining employees do more work for the same pay. For example, I feel lucky to have my job. But I am really doing the work of at least 3 full-time employees. My job title is "Senior Systems Engineer" but I do everything from Helpdesk work to DBA and Programming.

"Knock on wood", but I have survived 4 rounds of layoffs from my company. As a matter of fact, my company had to re-classify my position so it wouldn't fall under "IT" in order to keep me. All of my co-workers who got laid off couldn't find any IT related jobs. They all had to change their careers. Of the ones that got laid off and are working in IT now, they all had to move out of California to find IT jobs. Think about it..."having to move out of California", home of Silicon Valley. I have a friend who is working in the St. Louis,Missouri area. He said that is one place where there are more IT jobs than people to fill them. You might want to try there. Good luck.

I have been out of work for half a year. Last company, a large bank, keeps lots of guest workers because of costs and "H1-B" handcuffs that keep them as captive workers. My skills were above thoses of the workers kept.

Talk to people who went through last IT downturn in 1992 and they said things were not as bad as now - difference now is huge number of guest visas and offshoring. Unfortunately business drives policy in this country and the cheap labor is the only innovation our CEOs understand. I wrote letters against H1-B expansion but noticed congress just passed a bill - signed by the president - allowing 20K more visas AND exempting those educated in US with Ma/PHd. Ordinary citizens simply have no voice in government these days. It will take soup before people realize it was a mistake putting our government and future in the hands of big business. Even when the issue came up in the last election, it did not carry the concern it should have from the politicians.

IT may come back some day, but I was in another field in decline for 8 years - it is not a fun ride. Better to get out of dying field and into growing one quickly - especially one that cannot be offshored !

I agree. IT is a tool. In order to become marketable in today's economy, we are required to know another aspect of the buisness/institution for which we work or apply.

Having excellent customer service is expected in phone support (and, with little patience to maintain this, these positions will not be difficult to find). Knowing psychology, on the other hand, is indispensible in that it allows us to identify the needs of our employers AND our customer in order to [ideally] meet both or position ourselves to best facilitate the meeting of both.

Consider which department other than IT should be approached for a position. Imagine how much handier it would be for your direct supervisor to have someone on hand who actually *knows* what machinery is needed for the department, can fix small problems without waiting for support, assist in training new employees on the system/software, and can best coordinate with outside services to meet the requirements within a reasonable budget.

Yes, this is admittadely broad. The point I'm trying to make here is that (at least for me) we identify additional intersts and strengths in order to put them to use as well. For me, I like psychology, problem solving, interaction with people, and tinkering. As a support person, this has been very beneficial because I work with customers in their offices and can keep a steady conversation to find out what they really need to accomplish then get it done. In the end, everything that I do is about people.

Thanks for reading this ramble.

In my shop, there are 7 of us, I am the only native born American. In this building I would say its about 2/3 non-American's. I dont know if thats common now, but in California thats the way it is, and so that puts downard pressure on the wages as most of the new guys coming in will work ungodly hours for low pay.
I wish I had the answer, what to do and where to do it, but I am sure thinking about getting out of the IT bussiness and finding something else.

All you say is true, with one caveat: The offshore outsourcing is sucking up a particular class (or two) of jobs. Those jobs are, mostly, the "entry-level" jobs of the industry. For some reason, the IT industry has treated local monkey-work (changing out hard drives, running errands for the top IT guy, et cetera) as mid-range IT jobs for the last decade, and has treated jobs that involve more problem-solving skills (telephone support, QA, and short-task programming) as entry level IT jobs. Because these supposed "entry level" jobs can often be done from afar, they're getting outsourced overseas.

Without that entry level access, it's getting more and more difficult for IT professionals to get into the workforce in the first place. It seems that, coupled with the fact that at higher levels the IT staff is hiring out of other departments internally a lot of the time, is what's creating such a dire employment situation for many IT professionals.

My dear compadre, just a short answer, be patient.
The payback time is coming, sooner or later all those computers will need to be worked on. With all the IT jobs vanishing for one reason or another everybody will have a hard time to deal with it.
Employers are treating us like dirt for now, but when the time comes they will be the one to pay the price.
Remember the Y2K, all those years the problem was neglected, and all of a sudden BOOM, year 2000 is here.
What we are going to do? Asked them selves our dear employers.
That time will come again, and in top of that all the technologies that are outsourced for now will turn and bait us all in the ASS.
Do you think that the terrorists are not aware of this?
I guarantee you that the next big attack will be on the computer field, no more airlines.
To costly and to dangerous to get a plain now, it?s a lot easier to attack a network, no more suicide people to look for, can be done from far away, anonymous, etc. you know what I mean.
GREED is the mother of all bad things that happening to US of A.
We train them and they turn back and kick us with our own tools, look at Afghanistan, Iraq and all others that got help, France, Germany, etc.
I think that you sense my frustration from my words, I?m in your position too, and for two years I can?t get a job. Not even as a low-level pc technician, I found Network Engineer position or $18.00/ho, somebody must be crazy to take it, not me.
I will rather use my savings and wait then to work for free so that big CEO?s to make millions.
Just look at the increase rate for high rank executives, all this years it went up and up and up.
That is enough, ?to much of a good thing is not good for our health?.
Good luck my friend, and Happy Holydays to all of you that are in this situation!

I wan an IT manager for food distribution firm that went under in April 2002. I went right into consulting without hesitation. I'm still at today doing quite well. If you're serious about this you have to willing to learn alot about this business all the time. I read CRN and VAR magazine constanly to keep myself up on what the business is doing. Also you should get every book you can find on computer consulting ("The IT Consultant" by Rick Freedman is a must read.) Also learn project management. I'm constantly advising novices that you can't succeed as a "consultant" without project management skills. Last thing, talk to other sucessful solo consultants, pick their brains on what makes them successful. Good Luck!

P.S. Learn about the local business community around you (chambers of commmerce, clubs, civic organizations, etc.) Get to know "Who's Who".

I have to toss my two pennies in here. I have almost 30 years in IT, developer, design, manager, consultant, and now .... Search Consultant. Yes I am a >recruiter< for IT.

What you said about that recruiter is true. They think they (I) have a great match of person and client. And then one (or the other) backs out, slows down, stops returning calls, what ever. Poof! Personnally I still keep looking for my candidates because there are great jobs out there, and I want to put them into those jobs.

One point about the IT market now - IT is still in the budget press. There are three types of shops out there. Huge, Normal, and Mom&Pop. If you want to work in Huge or Mom&Pop >>Do Not Use A Recruiter<< We can rarely help with full time positions. If you want towork for the Normal shop, work with a recruiter.

I will help anyone (even if I can't place you) with their job search. But I can not find everyone the "great" position, paying 6 figures to starting grad's. Those days where the abnormal that will not soon return.

The money stinks, but you'll get to do and learn more than in a "real" job. Most non-profit organizations have made the transition to computers, but almost all need help. I work for a medium sized company and got my start when they switched from the old wang 2200 to NT4 about 5 years ago. I was working in marketing(I have an MBA), but because I had opened a computer and added memory, I was given the task of overseeing the conversion. I took a MCSE course (didn't take the cert test because I knew it didn't matter to this employer) and they paid me for going to school if I promised to stay at least 2 years. I now manage a network of 4 servers, Exchange, 50 workstations 60 users and related switches, routers, Wan connections and other fun stuff. There is never enough money for hardware, and I also get to do data base development as well as tech support for staff, volunteers, and executives with little computer experience. All this for about $26K a year! If you're not in it for the money, it can be a great life. I'm sitting here watching the eagles fly over Puget Sound as I'm typing this during a break in converting 25 AMD K62-400 from win98 to XP. I have more responsibility, variety of task, and experience than many who make 3X what I do, but I won't trade with them.

About 3 1/2 years ago, I got laid off from my psotion as sysops for a large construction company. They had outsourced my job (sound familiar?)

What did I do? Well, after seeing the glut of other sysops looking for work in my area, I decided it was time to look into a new venture. I am glad I did. With the increased use of DT (digital technology) in audio and visual systems and support, I opted to start an AV company that specializes in DT format AV production and installation.

You don't know just how many churches, auditoriums, schools and even small business and/or home users need someone to install and program computers to work with AV systems. It's been a great experience for me as my salary has doubled in the last 3 years.

What about volunteering your services part time for your local school districts (public and private)? They will probably welcome qualified help, and you will be making contacts in the community. And, those school tech people are often looking for qualified local service providers to recommend; we get lots of requests from the community to fix personal and small business computing problems.

Well spoken and wise council. There should be enough on the plate for most of us to eat well.

Thanks for the cold water!

Mark Kishbaugh
kishbaugh@usa.net

Are you hiring? Heh.

I'm working for a consultancy with a very loyal client base, at the moment, and I'm making good money. Unfortunately, I'm paid by the hour worked, and in consulting that comes in spurts. I've been looking for full time employment to solve the problem of pay that comes and goes. I'd rather make steady pay than unsteady, occasionally obscenely good, pay.

In any case (and to get to the point of this post), though I have a job that pays well, this means that I'm also in the job market, and I get to see how IT employment looks first-hand. What I've found is that while your approach to IT hiring sounds like the most logical, reasonable, and effective, it's not the approach most managers take. In fact, it seems that the hiring practices of most managers are designed in a way that optimizes for lack of independent thinking, rote repetition rather than critical thinking skills, and a complete lack of curiosity so that the employee will be chained to his current job. That description does NOT sound like me at all, and as such I'm still consulting.

The people I know and like have ideas similar to yours about hiring. The people that actually have jobs to offer seem to have the opposite view. Based on that, it's no wonder the IT field is in the toilet.

Even being in my late 20s is apparently "over the hill" to the people doing the hiring in the IT industry. I seem to be permanently locked into consulting now, because all the full time positions are going to people 22 years old.

Every single thing you said in this post has problems. One problem is your assumption that somehow Microsoft is keeping things cheap. You seem to base this on the fact that Microsoft is ubiquitous in certain areas of the IT industry, which is not exactly ironclad proof. It's just an assumption of cause for a given effect.

It's true that, initially, price undercutting was part of what got MS into its current position of market dominance, but price undercutting hasn't been part of that strategy in nearly as great a role for quite some time. Now, the operating system and attendant productivity software often end up costing more than the hardware on which they run. Profit margins are absurdly high for Microsoft's software, and yet the price of Windows OSes skyrocket with new releases. MS might once have done "everything possible to keep prices low," but that's not the case any longer.

The rest of what you had to say seems to be predicated upon the notion that open source software doesn't have a substantial market share. That's just patently false. Many engineering industries use Linux as the primary end-user OS, for instance. DNS, BIND, Sendmail, and Apache are all open source projects, and they run most of the Internet. If Microsoft is so much better than its open source rivals, and proves this by maintaining market share, perhaps you could explain why it is that something like 60% of the web servers in the world are running Apache (open source), and not IIS (Microsoft).

Maybe I've been lucky but I'm sure it's more hard work...in the past 4 years I have been made redundant in IT twice!! This second redundancy is happening in 6 months from now, but I have already lined up my next full time role with a job sharing set up between now and when I can start full time for the new company. Each time redundancy comes around I have sent out the feelers and been picked up immediately by other companies. There is work out there, but it's the stuff that's hard to find. Companies have had too much experience with unskilled techies and are constantly afraid of being burnt. If you prove yourself in any role, your contacts from that role should be more than willing to snap you up as soon as you are available. Applying for advertised jobs is just frustrating and fruitless from my experience and companies seem to only want to take a chance on hiring someone who has actively sought them out, rather than just replied to an ad.