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  • #2286426

    IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

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    by raycaldwell73

    I don’t know how some of you guys feel, but I think these IT staffing and recruiting agencies and the most pathetic bunch of people I’ve ever dealt with. I don’t understand how some of these people can call you about a job offer or a “great opporunity” and say you are interested and go through the whole process of giving them your resume and then all of sudden, you no longer hear from them, what the hell is that all about? I have dealt with these guys in the past and when you try to do a follow-up to find what is going with job, they give a bunch of lame excuses or they claim to have “no clue” and give you the “check back with me” or “give a me call in a week or so”. Why can’t they just be honest and straight up with you. If you can’t deliver, then don’t bother calling people for a job offer. It’s sad that the days of when a company called you direct for job is gone. It seems like these recruiters are the only people left to deal with, and I haven’t ran across a good IT job fair in over 2 years. This is getting very discoraging.
    Has anyone else had any bad experiences with recruiters?

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    • #2728871

      Bad experiences aplenty

      by dc_guy

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      A lot of people saw the boom in contracting and figured there was a big need for headhunters. IT people would be moving around a lot more often so they would need more recruiting services.

      I think what happened was that way too many people got into the recruiting business, and a good many of them are not qualified for the job. A lot of them are just one- or two-person operations, which simply is not critical mass to be an effective employment agency. Many of them seem to only have a handful of companies that they work with. Others seem to just read the same help-wanted ads that we read. Quite a few of them, even some of the larger ones, have absolutely no idea what most of us do and are in no position to pitch us to a prospective employer.

      I think the solution is to shop for headhunters the same way you would shop for any other professional. Find somebody you trust who had a good experience with one.

      • #2728587

        Turn the tables on them!

        by cmderinchief

        In reply to Bad experiences aplenty

        Boy oh boy, this is more than enough to bring me out of ‘lurkerdom’…..I am gonna vent on this!

        I have received 2 jobs offers from recruiters. Two out of countless phone calls and submissions. Fortunately, a ‘conventional’ job offer was received a few weeks into each contract and I was able to walk away….in effect using the recruiter’s client as a bridge job. To me, recruiters (headhunters, etc) are a necessary evil because they do fill a market need. But on the other hand, the way they have treated me (and others as it seems) in the past they rate just above a pimp.

        To help me deal with recruiters, I have five simple rules:

        1.) WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY, HOW? –
        I ask for their client’s info and a copy of the job decription. I do this for two reasons. First to see if the client is truely as good as they say it is. Secondly, I check the job against the various on-line sites to see if it was already advertised ‘recruiter-free.’ I want to make sure that I have not sent their client my resume already. Quite often, I am finding that I have been double-submitted for positions that are advertised through normal channels and then advertised by a recruiter. There is also a chance that the recruiter may not be in as “good standing” with their client as they tell you over the phone. I have actually lost a job because they employer did not like the firm they were dealing with! HR forced the IT dept to use them. IT rebelled and refused to hire a contractor. If they don’t give me their client’s info upon an agreement to submit, I pass on the opportunity.

        2.) COMPETITON –
        I ask how many candidates they are sending. Any number less than 5 I take with a grain of salt, but at least I have a better idea that they are actually looking for skill sets. Any more than 5, depending on the opportunity, I tell them NO because now I know they are just throwing candidates against a wall and trying to find someone that sticks.

        3.) COMMUNICATION –
        I make them commit to following up with me & I tell them that I will follow up once a week until their client’s position is fulfilled. I expect follow up and communication as a common courtesy. It does not take more than five minutes for a recruiter to call me or fire off an e-mail to update me. To highlight this, I usually tell recruiting firms how bad a past recruiter treated me and they ALWAYS reply, “We’re not like that.” This is my ‘you scratch my back, I’ll scratch your’ approach. If they do not follow up, a mental note is made and I will mention it to them the next time they should ever call me. It has worked very well during my current job campaign.

        3.) MY TIME IS VALUABLE –
        I tell recruiters not to waste my time. If they think I am a good fit for the position or project, then submit me. If they think I should go on-site for an interview, then send me. Otherwise, don’t waste my time! This especially goes for those stupid skills assessment tests that they love to send you. An interview with usually expose any shortcomings. There are other opportunites for me out there.

        5.) JUST BUSINESS –
        Lastly, I let them know that I realize they are a business trying to earn a profit and that they work for the employers, not the candidates. I mention as often as possible my willingness to ‘work for their client’ or to ‘help their client.’

        Lately, especially since the second week of March. I have been averaging two recruiter calls a week. The market is improving

        All it takes is one bad recruiter and the whole lot are labeled bad. I do have about five or so I trust. They tend to be smaller or local firms. The more national firms (RHI, MRI, etc) have not got me anywhere. These rules for me, but I know I AM NOT HR expert or anything like that. I have just learned from trial and lots (TONS!) of error.

        Man, I hope that recruiters read this thread. Their rep can go a long way if they just adjust their approach. Ok, I am done venting. 馃檪

        • #2728564

          Couldn’t agree more!

          by sidelinequarterback

          In reply to Turn the tables on them!

          You ain’t vending, just being truthful. I also deploy the points mentioned by yourself. It’s the only way to try and keep them somewhat honest. I view them as a, unfortunately, necessary evil, but right up there with a “snake oil salesman”. They fail to follow-up with you, unless (as you say), “Hound Them”. So many job postings require us to have “communications skills both written and verbal”, but these poor souls can’t seem to comprehend that the same is required of them. I must say, it’s interesting to read postings by them that have spelling errors, bad grammer, mis-quoted skills, etc.

          I too, hope that a “LOT” of these “professional” (?) recruiters read this thread also.

        • #3343409

          Recruiters

          by sishir85

          In reply to Couldn’t agree more!

          The major problem I have had with these recruiting agents is that 99% of them are not qualified to even understand the qualifications and just go by the literal matching of key words in the posted job requirements. It’s pathetic how qualified prefessionals have to rely on these so called recruiting agents for job leads..A bunch of monkeys hitting throwing darts will have a better rate of matching jobs to qualified professionals than these people……
          There should be some sort of certifications to be a recruiter and companies have to insist that whoever works with them should be certified…….

        • #2728552

          Look in a Mirror – who’s using who?

          by doug from atlanta

          In reply to Turn the tables on them!

          ” Fortunately, I was able to walk away….in effect using the recruiter’s client ”

          You’ve done this twice. This is your practice, and you’re calling the recruiter a pimp?

          I agree, recruiters should follow through. That they don’t is frustrating, and the ones that show just a little more class are the ones I try to hang out with the most.

          I have to remind myself that they call when they have work for me, and if they don’t call they don’t have work – maybe not yet, maybe not at all.

          Do you as a contractor feel any obligation to follow through on your committments? If not, what impression do you think that leaves with the “pimps” about their “meal tickets”? Not to mention those poor confused “johns” who are just trying to get a project finished.

        • #2728426

          Need change

          by acc_wireless

          In reply to Look in a Mirror – who’s using who?

          I think it is time that IT/IS people unionize. I would be happy to pay dues to suspend the mistreatment. Recruiters and corporations have had their way for too long. Work that I made $55hr 3 years ago went to $35hr last year and now is $15hr. Who is getting used? The attitude now is take it or leave it on their part.

        • #2728395

          They are pimps

          by network_driven

          In reply to Need change

          Recruiters have to make a living too. If there are 5 candidates with equal skills. The one that said “yes, I will work for 10 dollars an hour” will get the job. So if the contract paid 25 per hour. The recruiting office makes 15 per hour.
          Recruiters are always devaluing my resume, and I believe its to divvy up a bigger chunk of the pie.
          Once I had been outsourced through a second recruiting center, which left me with even less of the pie, but quit the second week.
          Unionize….No.. I know too many that would sit back and let you carry their workload.

        • #2694073

          Union?

          by maxpower1111

          In reply to Need change

          Have you ever been in a union? they’re not all they’re cracked up to be.

        • #2705370

          Union

          by nico

          In reply to Need change

          NO union, please, guys. They will wreck the whole business. Jobs are fleeing the US as it is and if costs go up and quality comes down, the level of jobs exported overseas will go up. We have to retool and re-engineer what we do to stay competitive.
          There are folks out there (H1B’s and others who lost their sponsors and jobs) who are willing to work for food only, so to speak. There are far too many staffing agencies out there who doesn’t know integrity from a thuderstorm even if they are hit by lightning. They poison the well for everybody by shutting the doors at the industry.

          If we collectively market our skills to industry, cutting out the pimps, we should be able to do a better job of it.

          Nico

        • #2722497

          I am in agreement with you

          by julie.davis

          In reply to Need change

          Why do bag boys with no college education and training have more rights and better wages than the IT people of the world. Lets get a Union together. I am with you 100%.

        • #2722499

          Thank you, Thank you, thank you

          by julie.davis

          In reply to Turn the tables on them!

          This is the best advice I have received to date. I am a recent college graduate with 3 IT degress, 7 academic certifications and I have received 3 job offers so far for $10-13 /hr. Give me a break!! I did not spend all of that time to work for less than a housekeeper makes! I have cross trained in Unix, Project management, Network Security, IT Systems Support and Help Desk Development. The recruiters have no idea what half of my certifications are or how valuable I am to be so cross functional and multitask capable. They haven’t got a clue! This is more frustrating than trying to reason with a teenager.

      • #2694484

        KForce? arguably …but RHI is the worst

        by web guru

        In reply to Bad experiences aplenty

        ….oh, and RHI Consulting is the worst! gone are the days when there was active communication with the consultant who’d be making the company money…no phone calls to let you know theres an opportunity and definately no follow-up calls… though there are plenty of companies out there, it’s my advice you stay away from this one…

    • #2728856

      Try this download

      by Jay Garmon

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Recruiter comparison checklist
      http://techrepublic.com.com/5129-6337-10216571.html

      (Watch out for spaces in the URL)

      • #2728512

        Auto Response

        by scribeidk

        In reply to Try this download

        I stepped out of the business (tech writer at R&D level) for 18-months. Relocated to Vancouver BC from Toronto. First time in 20-years I had to use a recruiter; many of whom propagate the slogan, “We’re here for you”.

        I don’t get to see or speak to a human. Auto responses clog my daily e-mail.

        If I go to a head hunter’s office the Barbie-dot-com at reception accepts my resume, hands me a business card, and requests I submit it electronically. Can I speak with someone now? Sorry, they’re in a meeting, on the road, somewhere but not available.

        I send the resume via e-mail and I’m inundated with a multiple page questionnaire that my resume aptly addresses but … sorry, must fill out the form. One company uploaded my resume and placed the data in their selected fields (for ease of use, they claimed). I spent an hour re-inputting the data into the correct fields.

        Auto responses and input tasks are not limited to head hunters. They’re just as prevalent with IT companies.

        So what do we do about it?

        Are we so relieved getting a job or a contract that we forget the process we just went through and say nothing to the recruiter or company HR head?

        Or, do we equate the lifecycle of job-hunting and dealing with recruiters to that of being a citizen and the politicans who are “here for us”?

        The quest continues …
        ScribeIDK
        (in beautiful downtown Canada)

        • #3298955

          I don’t do inputing

          by jw_mchugh

          In reply to Auto Response

          I don’t do input drudge work for free. If they want me to do data entry work then they can damn well pay me.

    • #2728815

      This is what it is about

      by worker bee

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      After wasting your time for half a day or so they now know:

      1. What places you worked.

      2. What technologies they use.

      3. The managers name and phone number.

      4. How much they pay.

      They can now add your former employer to the list of companies they call once a month or so to discuss their “staffing needs”. They got sales leads, you got nothing.

      • #2728684

        profit

        by john_wills

        In reply to This is what it is about

        These people are in the business for money, so they must sometimes place someone. But it doesn’t need to be a lot of people: 3 times a month for a recruiter would give him a very high salary, even though there is overhead. But some people are getting through. I have had 14 jobs, 1 via a head-hunter and 3 via contract agents.

        • #2728676

          Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

          by care

          In reply to profit

          You are one of the few people to actually get a job. I agree with the 1st person. They are full of crap.

        • #2728638

          there are good ones and bad

          by bpday

          In reply to profit

          As an independent consultant, I work with a lot of recruiting agencies all the time…so I understand a lot of the frustration. I think that in the last 8 years that probably 75% of my jobs have been through recruiters or contract agents.

          For those of us with only a so-so professional network, recruiters are a nessesary evil. Think of all the leg work that they do for us! Do you really want to cold call 80 zillion employers? As a tech person, do you really think you have that kind of sales/social skills?

          I’ll give it to you that they usually don’t really understand much past the buzz words on our resumes but they try.

          Granted, there are some really sucky recruiters out there. You’ll get a feel for who’s a total yahoo and who’s good pretty quickly. If the person is a moron, be nice to them anyway. If you make the recruiters like you, they’ll work harder and more effectively for you.

          Remember, if you don’t get the job…it’s probably not the recruiter’s fault. Nobody OWES you a job and recruiters are not superhuman. The market is better but it’s still not 1999. Keep your skills sharp.

        • #2728617

          The good the bad and the pathectic!!

          by capabel

          In reply to there are good ones and bad

          I agree some recruiters are REALLY horrible at follow ups etc, but it’s only because most of them juggle a few hundred clients at once. I found e-mail follow ups often you sort of brand your name in their mind so that when a position does come up they remember your name over the other few hundred out there. Bottom line is your in direct competition with hundreds of people so don’t be afraid to compete!!

        • #2728572

          Give them face time

          by hall6970

          In reply to The good the bad and the pathectic!!

          Whenever possible, get in front of them for a no-pressure interview. Tell them you want to meet if they’re local. Even if they have nothing for you. It’s great practice! Cultivate a relationship. That’s how I got back into web development in Atlanta’s slowly recovering economy.

        • #2695139

          Absolutely !!

          by isgirl

          In reply to Give them face time

          I have had reasonably good luck with recruiters and if you are unemployed, you definitely should “waste” some time interviewing with recruiters. It’s great practice for a “real” interview, they will critique your resume and skill set for you (even if you don’t ask)…and they will be able to put a face with the resume.

          If you interview well – they will send you before they will send someone who only emailed a resume. If you don’t, they will probably tell you what you need to do to fix it.

          I’ve had recruiters call me months after our initial meeting.

          The downside to using a recruiter is that they will upcharge you to the employer 20-30%, making you more expensive than if you were in direct contact with the employer.

          I accept all interviews and meetins when looking for a new job. Good practice and even an interview for a job that isn’t right could lead to an interview for a job that is.

        • #2693843

          Sure they will

          by mctazman2

          In reply to Absolutely !!

          I have been working with direct horing and agencies for several months. I do agree that the face to face is nice, but I think that they owe you the consideration of a phone call at least one in a while to see if you are still available. I was workign with one recruting firm who refuses to even communicate with me because I did not want to take a two week position that would have involved a two hour commute. So my theory is once you cannot do EXACTLY what they want, you are blacklisted. I ‘ve been out of work now for 17months. (With 10 years experience)

        • #2690332

          Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

          by tremere72

          In reply to profit

          You had 14 jobs, with 1 one of them being via a head-hunter and 3 being from contract agents. Somewhere along the way your math went faulty. As far as I can prove, 1 +3 = 4.

      • #2727642

        I definitely agree

        by islam

        In reply to This is what it is about

        i agree with worker bee …
        the question now is : with this vast number of unfulfilled claims of thes so-called “companies”, what is the proper way and where is the proper place to go with no more illusions to find suitable career for a man who have everything it takes to do the job wherever he is ?!

        i have noticed a common phenomena which is that most of the companies advertising careers are themselves not serious enough to hire any….
        no one gets hired after lenghy interviews with the world..

        we need a solution

        • #2728643

          Some luck

          by wrlang

          In reply to I definitely agree

          I’ve had 3 jobs that I’ve taken found for me by headhunters.
          I’ve had about 6 that were no where near what I was looking for, and cut the interview short. Just trying to place a body somewhere.

          I’ve also applied for 3 local jobs that appeared and disappeared the same week. When I called them up to check, they said it was a premature release, and could not give me a date when it would be rereleased.

          Work the headhunters, use several from different angles if possible. ei, recruiters for management, IT, risk…. Know exactly what your looking for, but don’t necessarily tell everyone. The headhunter is working for the business unless you pay them, and even if you pay them, they may not be working for you. Treat the headhunter as you would the businesses HR department. Always find out as much as you can about the job before going to the interview so you can get an idea whether the headhunter is good. Never seem desperate to find another job or they will line you up for anything they can find.

        • #2728626

          only one problem with that !!

          by answerman

          In reply to Some luck

          I agree with you… but the problem is.. Most of us I think go through the mental gymnastics to create these “job search agents” or whatever they happen to be called, and get these “similar jobs matching OUR requirements” to our mailbox. Once there, and dutifully clicked on, you inevitably end up at a recruiters page….. “To send a stored resume, click here”……. So we do.

          Now once again, they know everything about us, we know nothing about them, and we never hear about the job, (oh ya, wasn’t that the original intention?).

      • #2728628

        Never thought of that !!

        by answerman

        In reply to This is what it is about

        I never thought of that, but your probably correct !!

        Sheeesh….. We should all get together and start a IT recruiter firm. If nothing else, we get some nice job leads…..

        • #3344489

          We have created our own recruiting “firm”

          by pticali

          In reply to Never thought of that !!

          The recruiter’s world is changing.

          -IT morale is low
          -Employee churn has stopped because of the bad job market.
          -The ecomony hasn’t helped – companies are still looking for cuts
          -This isn’t looking good for the recruiter.

          The average hiring manager is under the gun. They are forced to consolidate multiple job requirements under one person, and the fees the recruiter charges (although a value) still come out of their funds to hire talent. Most companies have implemented strategies to avoid the recruiter as much as possible.

          Employee and networking refferals is truly where the jobs come from. Send in a resume for that post on monster? Do you really expect it to be read? 1 out of 2000? No way.

          If a contact personally hands your resume to the hiring manager, its much more likely your phone will ring.

      • #2728619

        Just another source of potential clients

        by csg

        In reply to This is what it is about

        You are so right!!
        I knew this from my experiences from folks who had worked for me – I would often get “confirmation calls” followed immediately with a sales pitch.

        This is why I never give reference information until I know I’m on the very short list and have talked with the principal. I’m upfront in telling the recruiter this, and most stumble on this, some respect it. Hey, think of it – its YOUR reference treat it as gold…

      • #2728611

        Wow!

        by thendn

        In reply to This is what it is about

        I for one feel like a total grub. Although I must admit that the scheme is quite clever. Never once did look at the recruiter situation as you had described. Live and learn I suppose. I need to be more deligent in my quest. Thank you very much for your insight.

      • #2728494

        I agree

        by dennis_merola

        In reply to This is what it is about

        Its all about networking….the last recruiter I worked with, in the past had worked with my former employer.

        I had to drive about 40 miles to meet with them to discuss a great opportunity for me.

        As it turns out, they were fishing for information on my former employer. Wanting to know who my boss was and where the company stood on hiring more tech types.

        Its all about networking!

    • #2727723

      Its not the recruiters

      by ahickman

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      It’s not them….it’s the begining of the Death Knell for Technology in the US.

      • #2727640

        There are 2 main problems I see…

        by con.kambouroudis

        In reply to Its not the recruiters

        Firstly:

        IT Agencies are ALL competing with each other to simply get IT pros at the cheapest price. And most employers would listen to that. So this is why I believe the average salary or hourly rate has dropped.

        Secondly:

        There is a need for an organisation similar to a union or like the medical association??? We need to have someone to speak with in such discussions like this, and know that they have some sort of power to resolve such issues?

        I feel that I am at the mercy of most agencies to get a job, as more employees are using them to find them the most skilled person at the cheapest price. It’s simple as that.

        • #2728602

          Heck, why not?

          by thendn

          In reply to There are 2 main problems I see…

          Unionization looks like the way to go.

        • #2728586

          IT Recruiters: Disgusting practice….

          by l.barbetti

          In reply to There are 2 main problems I see…

          I totally agree with that point. I find this to be a very disgusting practice that only deserves to be treated on the same lines IT pros are treated. I therefore think that the only way to put all this to an end is by making their search endless. Once the employers realize that they will no longer find a suitable IT professional because they have simply disappeared, they will surely stop this?. One way to achieve this goal is by simply refusing any job offers with an unsatisfactory salary figure (come on IT guys, you really think you are at the mercy of all those employers? If you are at their mercy is because YOu WANT TO BE AT THEIR MERCY…). If all IT pros on the planet act like that, the employers will be forced to change tactics as no business can effectively run without ….people working on it! And PLEASE STOP SENDING CVs to unknown people!!!!

        • #2728446

          Re: Disgusting Practice

          by pmwpaul

          In reply to IT Recruiters: Disgusting practice….

          When the employer doesn’t know what they really need, they will always go with the lowest price. If the headhunter is dealing directly with the IT department and understand what the IT department needs, it’s easier and more accurate to identify who fits what shoes.

          If the headhunter is just doing a “shot-gun” of any and every IT person for an IT job, then they will make it seem like you are “da man!” in DEMAND for the position, along with every other person who’s resume they have submitted. But the employers are brushing them off just as much as they are brushing you off.

          So don’t deal with IT recruiters or headhunters who don’t know the difference between C++ and cobol in programing languages. Or Netbios and Netbeui for networking positions.

      • #2728569

        Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

        by ctaylor

        In reply to Its not the recruiters

        Personally, I don’t think its the Death Knell for Tech in the US. But….the industry is going to have to recognize that the people that make it up are skilled labor. And that this profession cannot be done by just any old primate.
        Solutions provided for companies that keep their infrastructure running, so they can continue doing business, are not pulled casually from orafices where the sun don’t shine. These solutions are the product of real world experience, training and good old fashioned dedication on the part of the Technician. (Nowadays all but udercut by recruiting agencies and their clients that want to lowball everyones salaries beyond the level of livable standards.) McTechnicians? Hey Mr. Recruiter! Next time you’re feeling ill, why not go visit a McDoctor. Hey, no skill in that profession either huh?

      • #2728497

        Recent Revelation

        by wonder warthog

        In reply to Its not the recruiters

        Until I had it pointed out to me recently, I hadn’t realized it: the 90’s saw the adoption of “just-in-time” inventory management, with the needed equipment and raw materials being ordered only when absolutly needed, with very tight deadlines, and never stockpiled.
        The 2000’s have seen the start of the just-in-time employee – recruited for a specific project with a very limited timeframe and released immediately afterwards…allowing me to begin the employment process all over again.

    • #2727639

      IT Recruiters never reply to a failed “resume”

      by delboy69

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I have been looking for work in the UK for the last few months, I have found that we have agencies that are all “great thats what we want”, but the moment your resume fails to get your foot in the door, the recruiter has lost any chance of a “sale”, so why bother to tell you. When the next resume may be the one he or she wants to make that “sale”.
      In the UK we have some good websites for vancancies (like jobserve,cwjobs), there are several problems here
      1) is that often the jobs do not exist and the recruiter is doing a resume collection
      2) the information about the job is wrong
      3) the recruiter does not know simple facts about the industry e.g. “SQL” and “Sequel” is generally considered to mean the same thing, and there is a difference between C++ and C#

      Is there any hope left

      • #2727635

        So Annoying and So Difficult

        by marktspoole

        In reply to IT Recruiters never reply to a failed “resume”

        With so many agencies out there on the web, and so many “Jobs”! – I thought it would be easy and very quick to find new employment. How wrong I was. Agencies don’t cummuncicate with you at all, you have to apply for 50 jobs to get one real response. Of course, you get hundreds of automatated replies, asking you to update your “iprofile” to stand a better chance! It really is getting worse, and I really am going to run out of money!

        • #2728519

          Yeah you are!

          by kirm

          In reply to So Annoying and So Difficult

          Get used to it. I’ve been unemployed for a year and two months with absolutely nothing on the horizon. Oh well, there’s always suicide.

        • #2728421

          if you were in IT you have a mind

          by youraveragemanager

          In reply to Yeah you are!

          Would you agree that if you are ready to give it all up, that just maybe it is time to do something that you may enjoy, and if it doesn?t work, so what. No loss doing anything else considering the option.

          There are people that need help, and if you were in IT you have a mind. Just because the economy and leadership are so screwed up does not mean you should give up.

          Life is an adventure, visit oddtodd.com, and if that helps, then borrow a copy of the Blue Collar Comedy Tour. Take a break from the depression for a few hours.

          Spring is coming, maybe we will both be out in the fresh air swinging hammers ? pounding nails. No sarcasm here, it is a real option.

          Someone else indicated starting self service recruiting – placement services, interesting concept, perhaps this is an effort worth living for. I think it is a great idea, and offer the 40+ organization as an outline model, in need of a group of IT talents.

        • #2695133

          Why not take temporary work ?

          by isgirl

          In reply to if you were in IT you have a mind

          If I were unemployeed for over a year, I’d be considering taking a job that was “beneath” my skill in hopes that I would impress someone with my skills and enthusiasm. I’ve had temp jobs that resulted in making contacts that end up turning into dream jobs.

          If you have some sort of income and just want to get out and make some contacts, try volunteer work. There are lots of charitable organizations that can use your skills. This could also bring you to the attention of someone benefactor that owns a business in town.

          Last, why not consider a sabbatical from IT to explore some other career possiblities? If you are a temp/contract worker, you could test out some other jobs without taking much of a risk.

          Whatever you do…do something….

      • #2728656

        occasionally you do get a reply……..

        by mgeyre

        In reply to IT Recruiters never reply to a failed “resume”

        however it can lead to even more frustration. I recently had an interview where I was told (by the agent) the reason I did not get the job was because I was too honest. I was asked why I left a job 4 years ago and I answered truthfully.
        Call me naive if you will, but surely it is better to hire someone you can trust than someone who just tells you what you want to hear

        • #2728645

          occasionally you do get a reply ….

          by rloski

          In reply to occasionally you do get a reply……..

          At least it wasn’t a posture issue. I was interviewing for a programming job and after the fourth interview with technical people (half hour each) I had one with the hr. Apparently, my posture wasn’t right. After that reply, I was really glad that I didn’t get an offer.

        • #2728622

          Nope….

          by answerman

          In reply to occasionally you do get a reply……..

          The truth has VERY little to do with the recruitment process. That is the real issue. They ASSUME we are yanking them, so they have built a whole fortress and armada of obstacles and “quick outs” to dismiss us, once they feel we are not “right” for the position. I actually had a recruiter ask me, “One final question. my client likes to know, for background purposes, What do you watch on TV?”

          I almost passed out…… LOL. Needless to say, the interview was over, I never heard from them, and so I do not feel so bad about “going off” on that guy…….

        • #2728597

          It’s insane….

          by kargitane

          In reply to Nope….

          I was laid off suddenly 19 months ago, and have cranked up my own business. A one man shop, I get at least 2-3 resumes a month from people. I make it a point to contact them and explain that I’m in this on my own right now, and can’t hire anyone. One man almost started sobbing on the phone SIMPLY BECAUSE I’D TAKEN A MOMENT AND CALLED HIM. We eneded up talking for quite a while, and as I said to him, I know what it’s like to send off all your stuff and have it fall into a black hole….

        • #2728542

          Vote Coming Up

          by hall6970

          In reply to It’s insane….

          Do you think either political party will improve this?

        • #2728486

          Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

          by the admiral

          In reply to Vote Coming Up

          No political party is going to do anything about it. If companies are saving more money than their tax breaks that are being revoked it is not going to make a difference.

          It is still money that will be written off. What does the business care as long as if they are still saving money with all of their tax breaks revoked?

          Not a thing. Now if they are forced to pay a tariff that equals the pay of someone in the states with the same benefits plus 20%, then the jobs will be back in the states. Plain and simple.

        • #2728443

          I Certainly Hope Not

          by americium

          In reply to Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

          The LAST thing I want is a political party “doing something” about it. Looking to a political party for a solution to anything is like asking Bill Clinton to look after your daughter.

          From what I’ve seen in many of these posts, it’s no wonder so many of the posters don’t have or can’t get a job. Grammatical errors and misspelled words abound.

          Furthermore, many of the posts are all in one paragraph. That’s hard to read. I hope your resumes are not like that. . .

          There’s no way I would go through a head hunter or professional recruiter. If you need a job, do your homework! Find out where the job is; and then go get it! If you are good at what you do and play well with others, it’s not very difficult to find a job.

        • #2694504

          Wha?

          by riley723

          In reply to Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

          Admiral, you can not be serious. We are not in a bubble, this is a global economy. If companies can ship a job overseas and save cash on their bottom line they have every right to do so. They are mostly manufacturing and programming jobs. My advice to people in that position: if your job has been outsourced overseas, maybe it’s time to re-educate yourself. That’s like me saying, “but I have 3.1 experience!!” The last thing we need is the govt telling companies who they can and can’t hire.

        • #2695127

          Perhaps with money for re-training

          by isgirl

          In reply to Vote Coming Up

          Let’s face it, a lot of people went into IT in the period between 1999 and 2002 because there were excessive numbers of good paying jobs.

          I am afraid what we are seeing now in the IT job market is a leveling out of the true market. The “boom” with Y2k and the internet bubble is over and there will be some people who have to re-train for other work.

          During the “boom”, I managed a technical Help Desk and could expect to see a new tech leave within 6-9 months. These were people fresh out of college or technical school with no real work experience under their belt.

          The truth is that none of them really enjoyed the Help Desk job they had and were counting the days until they had 6 months experience and could get a “real” IT job.

          Granted, it was a different time…but should we be surprised that the Help Desk jobs are all moving overseas and those people with less than 5 years IT experience are having trouble finding employment in the IT field?

          The truth is that it used to be an employees market in IT and now it’s an employers market. For some people, that will mean that they leave IT and find something else to do for a living – at least for a while.

        • #2728543

          “Going Off” or “Going Postal”

          by sidelinequarterback

          In reply to Nope….

          I too agree with the “going off” comment. I sometimes believe someone out there (not me) WILL go postal on one of these guys or gals.

          In closing, my favorite request from these idiots is to re-write your resume/CV to “fit” the position they’re peddling. Good Lord!

      • #2728530

        No chance…

        by l.barbetti

        In reply to IT Recruiters never reply to a failed “resume”

        There’s only one logical conclusion to all that:

        Make Recruiters/Employers’ life harder, not easier by:

        1) Changing job and, more importantly, sector, and let IT Industry shrink completely, as it is happening already.
        2) Stop sending CVs and Resumes to them if that much ignorant, after all you are not getting anything, so what’s the point in continuing your job hunting in this (crap) sector? With your skills you are in a much better position and a whole lot more capable of judging if a position is suitable for you than they are.

        Regards.

        • #2728516

          exactly

          by kirm

          In reply to No chance…

          That’s why I’ll be going back to driving a concrete mixer this spring (God I pray they’ll have me). You know the funny part? I’ll be making WAY more money then I could have made in IT anyway. What a waste of time my education was and everything else with that f-ed up industry.

        • #2728428

          Well Done.

          by l.barbetti

          In reply to exactly

          Ohh boy, what more can I say? Very well done. Hope THEY will learn the lesson. Me too have to say: WHAT A WASTE OF TINE my education was, including my work experience abroad….

      • #2728472

        Asking the recruiter . . .

        by scribeidk

        In reply to IT Recruiters never reply to a failed “resume”

        “What are your qualifications?”

        I know, in most instances, it would be the death of your quest to find permanent or contractual employment; and you would never ask that of a good company HR staffer, would would bring in the department techies to interview you.

        But shouldn’t we know if the head hunter/recruiter entity interviewing us is qualified to do so? Granted, in the first five minutes you have a grasp on their IT skillsets; (“ah, I see list RoboHelp development under Tools; so you’re into robotics?”)

        Has anyone done so?

    • #2727638

      Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      by crg_ro

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Be happy not to be here… By “here” I mean Romania, Eastern Europe. I was in search for a job in 2001 and most of 2002 and nothing… And nothing because of poor recruiters. The recruiter calls me, eventually invites me to a discussion, and then send me to the employer for a interview. At 90% of job interviews I was overqualified, and that is the recruiter’s problem cause no recruiter from Romania is able to guess the professional level of a IT guy. They compare IT guys by checkboxes (C++, PHP, Java and so on), and just sent me to everything over a “junior” position, and I ended up with more interview experience…

      Interesting stuff: almost all of HR agencies knew my last salary. I mean exact salary, not the average value I wrote on some application form. And it’s not needed to write an application form for them to know my last salary. You will ask how… Well, it’s Romania, and we have an authority called “Work Chamber”. Every employer have to complete the employee’s workbooks, and then pass that to the work chamber. The salary should be secret, but at the work chamber you can take a look in anybody’s workbook by means of a small attention (a few bucks). And most romanian recruiting agencies are using this kind of “research”.

      Anyway, that problem with recruiters and over one year of job search had its benefits… I started to freelance more and more, and I ended up with my own company, not needing a job anymore.

      But, after that experience, I’m thinking about my own recruiting agency. To make the company is low cost, to build a application web site is simple for me cause I’m a programmer after all. And combining this with my ability to evaluate IT people (cause I’m IT people:-), it should give me some advantages over the competition. Don’t you think?

      I’m thinking that poor IT recruiting is a problem for the employers as well, so a IT recruiting service built by ITpros will be nice.

      • #2728590

        No different in the US

        by gfawcett3

        In reply to Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

        Since 9/11 ALL information on your past work history, monies earned, credit ranking, medical records, school records – EVERYTHING is now available by download to agencies and employers for $10, as a matter of National Security.
        If anything in your life is different from the ‘norm’, they won’t even call you.
        Doesn’t matter how good you are anymore.

        • #2728440

          Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

          by kargitane

          In reply to No different in the US

          Uh…more details on this, please. 10.00 for an entire life history? Hard to imagine. I’m not questioning, but I for one would like more info on this.

      • #2728580

        Great! You Are On The Right Path

        by youraveragemanager

        In reply to Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

        Thank you for pointing out the transition. Real structural problems exist for those of us in IT.

        We can stop for a moment to express the pain, but will have very little leverage in correcting social wrongs that are inflicted upon us. So, you took the next logical step, it possibly feels like a higher calling, knowing you can do a better job, and can win contracts directly.

        On topic, there are a few consulting groups/recruiters that have actually worked in the IT business. They appear to have a better feel for what is happening and set expectations appropriately. The opportunity must exist in order to start the process, and then there must be a match on experience, skill sets, and lastly, those social skills will come into play.

        I see many talented people that are unemployed; they could be productive resources. This is nothing but waste of the worst kind. Still, I can not help this person with what they need most, that being a real opportunity. I even welcome rejection letters now, interpreting them as some dim light escaping the Resume Black Hole.

        Persistence may or may not pay off. Again, I?m pretty sure this is a structural problem and a shakeout is what we are living. Doing what I did in the hope that the results will be different feels like the definition of insanity, even when using the right steps.

        Now looking for and examining entrepreneurial opportunities and changing occupations, but it is difficult to keep your average and a little bit crazy IT Manager in the closet. It is difficult to let go and move on especially when you enjoyed it.

        • #2728480

          Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

          by the admiral

          In reply to Great! You Are On The Right Path

          I think you have been in management too long.

          It is every manager’s answer to everything. Ohhh, sorry about that you have been laid off for the last 3 years, look at it as an opportunity.

          Well, with opportunity, you need $$$ to get it going. So since you have such a positive attitude about it, please present your check to the opportunity fund for the amount of $100,000 to subsidize these opportunities.

          It is this kind of thinking that believes that offshoring, outsourcing, or whatever the hell the politically correct term is for laying you off to let an under educated third world country to work on your stuff, is perfectly OK and that like the pantyhose phenomenon that higher paying jobs are on the horizon.

          The imperical evidence is against these ideals.

        • #2728465

          I?m signing your praises right now

          by youraveragemanager

          In reply to Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

          Interesting, same old dribble that keeps people frozen. How did any of the toxic waste you tossed out here help anyone? Hey, wait a second, wasn?t I responding to an entrepreneur in Romania. Go stand on any downtown corner and peddle that tripe, you add nothing that helps people. I?m signing your praises right now, right here. Oh what fun.

          You make an awful lot of assumptions about me. Let me help you, stop doing that.

        • #2720515

          uneducated?

          by k_os98

          In reply to Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

          If we were so uneducated we would not be able to do your job. As an example, many, many Hindi Companies, qualify as CMM-i Level 5. Uneducated? I don’t think so. Cheaper? sure! but it is not their fault that living in India (or Brazil, or Mexico, or Argentina) is cheaper than USA (or UK, or whatever).

          Second, Empirical evidence favors this, its the new model (global alliances), so if someone does it cheaper, with the same quality (SAME!), why on earth should I give it to you?

      • #2728391

        IT Placement… (Little lengthy)

        by saryon

        In reply to Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

        Founded, organized, and Run by IT pros who have been in the business…

        I completely agree with this idea. I know a lot of you may think “Hey, we’re techies. We don’t have sales or interpersonal skills.” Well, this may be true of some sheltered cubicle-monkey’s, but I know there are a lot of us who do have well developed communication skills. By the looks of things, there are a lot of us who may have some pretty decent haggling skills as well.

        We have a lot of experience going for us, and we know what most companies need in an IT employee. Imagine if an employer came to a recruiter such as this with a need for a project team. The recruiter met with said employer to get the details of the project and understood just about every aspect of the project. Can you picture how floored this employer would be if the recruiter had hands-on experience with a few very similar projects and knew exactly what type of person would work out?

        So what’s to stop someone who’s out of work from starting their own IT recruitment center? Even a non-profit center would be more “profitable” to everyone than most of these self-proclaimed Technology Recruiters who don’t know anything beyond the current industry buzz-words. I don’t particularly agree with forming a union as I feel this has a better feel. Unions threaten and help only one side of the issue for a while. This type of placement service would help both sides and would bring a good name to everyone. (Just my feeling on this.)

        These new networking sites have a decent premise, but they’re too broad and end up too much like friendster in the end. We need something that is known for placing excellent pro’s with good employers. Where recruiters have been in the industry and know who needs what.

        • #2728374

          An Example Structure as a Starting Point

          by youraveragemanager

          In reply to IT Placement… (Little lengthy)

          Perhaps an example structure as a starting point for fact based discussion would be in order here.

          Does the non-profit 40plus.org paint a picture that is similar in some way to what you envision. Just wondering what your impressions are about that organization. I think you will benefit by taking your thoughts on the topic seriously, take it to the next step.

          http://www.40plus.org/chapters/

    • #2727636

      It’s the same in the Lowlands

      by nico.m.veeken

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I recognize a lot of the comments made in this discussion. Jobagencies have lesser vacancies, vacancies earn less money and each vacancy leeds to hundreds of reactions. They are swamped, but jobagencies: when things went well you did everything to get us, now the only thing I ask from you is just to be polite and react as one may be expected. I.e. within one week we have received your application, each week a short statusupdate and yes or no with reasons within four weeks.

    • #2727630

      We have found…

      by pvp

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      …stupidity abounds. Nothing like advertising for 10 years’ experience on a 6-year-old product.

      Sure you know what you’re doing, Mr/Ms Recruiter! You’re ensuring your own job security by pushing paper around your desktop like kids push lima beans (pick your least favorite veggie–other than a recruiter) around a dinner plate.

      • #2728646

        I?ve seen this for a jab that needs Java

        by jnicoula

        In reply to We have found…

        Yes, it?s true… They needed a java developer when Java first came out. I pointed it out to them that Java is only out 2 years. There reply was: OH!?!?! Is it really??? We did not know this.

        M biggest pet peeve is when they get you to come into there office. When there office is about hour drive away to later find out that all the information was on my resume. They are looking for a head count.

        Just by staying on the phone for a few more minutes I was able to get the truth out. One even stated I was behind in technology when they did not know what the job required. Did not know what the project was about. Lastly, they said some things that made me think the job sis not exist.

      • #3182618

        Or discounting prior experience.

        by sjohnson175

        In reply to We have found…

        I’ve been working with VB since 1995 and could make the leap to .Net but just haven’t been in a shop that has done so.

        In my last search all they cared about was years of .Net experience. The prior 10 years of experience was completely ignored.

    • #2727625

      I’ve seen all of the above as well

      by javanek

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      There have been occasions where I have seen all of the above. But, in my opinion there is the one issue that really chaps me above all of the others. Recruiters or HR people who don’t have a clue what skills/experience you have even when they are clearly listed on the app or resume.

      I actually had to go through a process with an HR person who showed me the job decription and then had me point out where I met the criteria. So after going over each requirement and pointing to my qualifications he has the audasity to tell me that I should put it more clearly in my resume. (Although, I fail to understand how much more I can do as it says “Experience programming with ………..”)

      I also take issue with job seeker websites as most of them are better suited to shotgunning out your resume than applying for jobs in a specific area. While I would say that some who knows VB for example is a programmer that does not mean that they are able to necessarily work with DBs. Maybe they do, maybe they don’t. It usually is quite that refined.

      Final irritation is the lack of any response. Even a simple “Yeah, we got it.” would be nice, but that seems to be a courtesy that is no longer in vogue. Heck, they could set up an auto-responder which is better than nothing. But maybe they’re having trouble finding an IT person to do it.

      • #2728615

        now your asking for alot……..

        by answerman

        In reply to I’ve seen all of the above as well

        They probably can’t find anyone for that position, cause no one “just right” has applied yet, their socks were the wrong color, they parked “funny” in the lot, I really hate that cologne they wore, ooooooo they use THOSE kind of pens?……

      • #2695118

        Reality Check

        by isgirl

        In reply to I’ve seen all of the above as well

        It’s important that you realize when complaining about the lack of response to your resume that a single ad listing a job in IT is apt to generate 300 responses a day in most job markets.

        Imagine that you are a recruiter, employer or HR Manager wading thru 300 resumes a day looking a handful of people that should be invited to come in person to interview with someone who will understand the skill set that is actually required. The recruiter or HR Manager also will probably have to meet this small number of people first to see if they can’t cull out the less presentable candidates.

        So..when a recruiter asks you to tailor your resume to the job (you’ve never done that before?), or says they eliminated you because of poor posture – listen.

        In the sea of resume’s you need to make yours stand out – keep it simple, consise, easy to read and keep in mind that the person making the first cut probably isn’t a technial genius.

        To avoid being lost in the sea of hundred of resumes a day – or uploaded into a software package that looks for key words and spits out the matches – I suggest that you find out who the IT Manager is for the dept you are hoping to work in and send your resume directly to that person in addition to the HR dept and recruiter.

        I have also sent my resume to the President of a company before. Imagine the attention your resume gets when the IT Manager or the company President hand carries your resume to the HR Dept. and says “here’s someone that might be right for the opening in IT”.

        • #2722091

          excellent point

          by pjnyusa

          In reply to Reality Check

          you also have to realize that in this market, employers can afford to be very selective. How close does your background/ exp actually match the requirements for the position? # years, industry/ software/ certs. These matter & you cant assume that because you have 1 out of 10 criteria you will be singled out. Take the job description seriously.

    • #2727624

      I agree 100%

      by tuvals

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I am appalled at the way corporate personnel people treat potential job candidates. I have had situations where I have gone for an interview and was never contacted as to whether or not I was in the running for the job. I even called the interviewer on two occasions and left phone messages and was never called back. it isn’t as if I was asking for the world but a little respect and honesty is called for. Another time I was called and left a messaged by a company stating they were interested in me after reading my resume. I made three phone calls, two of which were to the person who called me and another to their backup. I received no return call. In this case I felt that if this is the personnel department showing their true colors why would I possibly want to work for them. I am retired but am working a job out of my field for less money and happy and I am respected by my management team and peers. In my opinion some of these IT firms will be in for a big surprise when the job market opens as I know a number of employees who will bolt a certain company at the drop of a coin.

      • #2728452

        Bad HR dept ?? Bad company

        by -loanman

        In reply to I agree 100%

        The last place I worked for, the HR department was run by Satan Herself (and Satan IS a woman; seen The Passion yet?). She domineered everyone into letting her dept be the “filter” (i.e., clueless quota-filling zombies) for all open positions so the “hiring manager” (i.e., the person who actually had a clue and knew what they were looking for) would not have to “wade through” a bunch of “unsuitable” resumes.

        This chick wouldn’t know a suitable IT resume if it bought her a cheap dinner then banged her all night in a seedy motel.

        But the IT department itself was a great place! It had an opened, relaxed atmosphere. the manager was not a clock-watcher; he didn’t care if you rolled in at 9:00 and rolled out again at 4:00 as long as your stuff was done. He understood that IT folks were on call 24/7 and had VPN capabilities so physical presence was not a valid indicator of dedication and work ethic. Too bad he had to leave…

        • #2728373

          Bad HR=Bad Company

          by tuvals

          In reply to Bad HR dept ?? Bad company

          The HR department was the frontline for hiring in my situation. When you are called by them and then receive no response they are irresponsible. I would never accept a job to work for them no matter how great the IT organization is. In my case I was able to talk to some of their employees and was told I was fortunate in not hearing from them because the company was run by a bunch of born losers. Actually, I sent a follow-up resume and then stiffed HR by not showing for the interview. Do I feel bad, no, giving them a taste of their own medicine actually made me feel good. I went down my networking list and found a job, am happy and shown some respect. Anyone who accepts mediocrity by their employer deserves what they get (IMHO). It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to return a phone call or send out a postcard regarding the results of a job interview. This is an insult to the applicant and as I said before a poor representation of the company. Enough said!

    • #2727623

      Ease of Recruiting is deceptive

      by dalehurt

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      The problem with the recruiting industry in general is that a lot of recruiters and recruiting firms aren’t treating it as a respectable profession. Remember when anyone with Windows 3.0 and a boatload of cheap fonts was a Desktop Publisher? Today, anyone with an easy-to-use database app., a list of names, and a telephone can pretend to be a recruiter. The one hard, fast rule to use is this: if the client company pays the recruiter’s fees; okay. If the recruiter wants the candidate to pay; run for the hills and be sure to tell all your friends.

      • #2728521

        I agree

        by davidson

        In reply to Ease of Recruiting is deceptive

        Dale, I agree with you 100%. After 20+ years of IT headhunting I have never charged an applicant. The rule I’ve always quoted is “If you have to buy a job, it probably isn’t worth having”. Watch for the end of the Application Form that say something to the effect of “It is understood that the undersigned is looking for employer fee paid jobs only. However, in the event that the client Co. doesn’t pay the fee, you agree to”. Draw a line through that part, initial it and have the interviewer (HR) also initial it. Actually, only a fool signs a document that they haven’t read, don’t understand or takes on faith.

    • #2727621

      I full agree

      by petruch9

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Hi, good to hear that I’m not the only one! That smb. shares the same view! I’ve been looking for jobs through agencies for years & I’ve never managed to find any!!! I seem to have the same symptoms. Calls from people asking me for resumes, telling me that out there is smb. looking for me. 100% getting the job but later on nothing in this direction … not even a call saying you failed or any kind of feedback … all this is much to be desired I reckon.

      All my jobs I found are through my own contacts, friends, yellow pages …

      I fully agree that agencies are better to avoid, waste of time, …. agonising pain. Especially those web based!!!

    • #2728657

      Sad to say it’s true.

      by hblanthorn9

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      It’s a sad fact that many recruiters haven’t got the courtesy to follow up with honest, accurate explanations of where you are in the “process”, as that is often very important info. to the job-seeker (such as “your Salary requirements were above the offered level..”, or “..you dont seem to show..”. These things can help re-write the resume (‘tweak it’), as well as adjust expectations. Happily, I’ve been working as a consultant/contractor since my early-retirement ‘buy-out’ in 2000, so I dont face the same issues with recruiters. BUT, I have observed certain characteristics of some ‘crummy’ recruiters. First, it’s a failure of many companies to use recruiters properly. Many incompetent HR Departments use loads of recruiters, and simply shuffle paper in, scan for keywords and salary range, throwing away 99% of the submissions. The true value of a good recruiter is having the recruiter understand the technology or nuances of the position, the culture of the organisation, and the specific attributes the managers/supervisors of a given area require. This isn’t the case today. Recruiters are “paper pushers”. They have no real understanding of the job, or the technologies. I often laugh when one calls me and asks about “specific” hands-on experience with some application, which is just one of a whole load of similar apps.. . As we all know, an application is an application, and after many years, fluency in an app is just a few days learning curve at worst. But, the resume must have the right words or you dont get an interview.
      I have found these few questions to be useful sorting out the “wheat from the chaff” when recruiters call:
      “Who is your client, as I dont want to be invilved in a double submission”?
      “Are you a preferred vendor”?
      “Is there a specific salary requirement for this position”?
      “Is this a new position”?
      “Why is this spot open”?
      “How long have they been looking for (this)…. “?
      and a real biggie..
      “Have you had anyone interviewed for this spot yet”? (If so.. “Why weren’t they hired”?).
      I should point out thatin my years I have met HR people who, when their Dept. is ‘slow’ and they fear possible layoffs, ‘generate’ work by interviewing 300 people for a menial or low level spot… claiming ‘no acceptable candidates’..

      But, by interviewing the recruiter, some of these situations can be avoided. On the other hand, do the recruiter a favor, and share the names of those who dont follow up, are rude or inconsiderate, with all your friends and associates. Remember.. without you, they dont make a living.

      Regards,
      H. J. Blanthorn

    • #2728652

      Welcome to Jersey

      by sql guy

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Same here in NJ. I got off active military service in January and spent two months trying to go through agencies. Most just called, and few were willing to set up interviews. One notable company – “Kforce Staffing” – gave me a major run-around, claiming that even though they had 3 or 4 dozen jobs posted (and for which I was qualified) at any given time, they had already filled all positions. I never got so much as an acknowledgement e-mail or phone call that they received my resume.

      I finally gave up on staffing agencies and started going directly to employers for jobs about 2 weeks ago. I start my new job today.

    • #2728650

      absolutely

      by dabouras

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I used to get called all the time, get taken to lunch, etc, then no contact. I was taken in by all this at first then realized the recuiter is not working for me, but rather for the company he is recuiting for at the moment. as soon as he knows the current position is not for you (how ever that is determined) you are history. I have had recuiters tell me they have “a great position” or “the perfect match” etc, then call me 2 or 3 years later wondering “how I am doing”. No contact in-between. the whole system is a thinly disguised way to detach the employer from the “filtering process”. One never knows why one is rejected so no accusations of descrimination are possible. I know this since when I turned 50 the calls stopped completely, just like that.

      • #2728612

        What’s Driving This Bus?

        by answerman

        In reply to absolutely

        This is what’s driving this bus, whether we want to believe it or not….

        Employers are using recruiters, because it alleviates the responsibility of having to subscibe to the proper human rights policies, employee handbook, Labor Laws, Discrimination Policies, etc…..

        When they hire a direct employee, even on the first day, they must NOW do EVERYTHING correctly. Verbal warnings, written warnings, disciplinary panel, cost COST COST!!!

        If it’s a “temp”, it’s one phone call, takes less than 30 seconds, content = “Hi, this is Client, pull temp number 1234, we have no need any longer”…..

        The next day Client calls and says “Find someone for that job”……and be quick about it.

        Get’s them out of having to treat people as human beings that have rights.

        And THAT’S real world experience.

    • #2728649

      Here’s what happens in today’s business climate

      by john-cronin

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      In today?s business climate there are very few opportunities for a ?career? where someone starts with an organization and remains with them 40 years to retirement ? it happens, but it?s rare. More often, you are seeking someone who can contribute to the bottom line now.

      Thirty years ago everyone had to have a 5 year plan ? today, long-range planning involves what is targeted for the next quarter, provided that the next layoff is survived. Last year I spent 2 months defining in some detail what my activities would encompass for the next fiscal year, as revised after obtaining approvals from senior management ? and then I was RIF?d (along with 449 others) on the first day of the new fiscal year.

      This demonstrated responsible management acting on behalf of the shareholders! It did not surprise me that the next week they were advertising to hire people into some of the same positions recently and involuntarily vacated. It might be surmised the people RIF?d were the least capable, but this was not the case ? many were top rated in their annual evaluations. Nor were they malcontents, the oldest, youngest, highest paid, or a part of a division or group to be disbanded ? they were just the ones who had their number come up.

      If you?ve read this far, please stay with me. I?m not a young man, but I am an experienced one, with 43 years in the IT business. I?ve had some time to study the job market, and what is being sought, and I offer a few observations.

      Every posted position describes in detail the requirements, and if you don?t fit precisely, well then it?s too bad. But wait, there?s more ? if you don?t meet the requirements, just scan on and you?ll find the same position has been posted by several recruiters and/or brokers, and each one has a slightly different take on what the requirements are. Submit your credentials to the one who has described you. They will call you, determine that you are indeed exactly the person they are seeking to submit, they will submit you to the organization with the posted position, and you will all discover that they are looking for someone entirely different. The amazing part is that you will see the same position posted by the same several recruiters/brokers for months. Obviously, they have no idea what their clients really want, despite their protestations.

      My favorites include those looking for someone who in the past 10 years has successfully managed several Java Web projects simultaneously with at least 50 developers involved in each project, managing budgets of $10-25 million per project, delivering everything on time, under budget, possessing a PMP, Six Sigma Black Belt, MCSE, CNE, and an MBA. Only those meeting all the requirements need apply. Must be local to Butte, Montana. Preference given to those with 15 years experience using MS Project 2003. Then, at the end of the listing it says ?0-2 years experience? and an offer of a contract for 3 months at $25 per hour, with no expenses or relocation assistance. Who writes these things?

      It might be the same person who determined that the official government cost of living does not include food, fuel or utilities. Or maybe the enlightened one who determined unemployment statistics should fail to include persons who haven?t had a job in so long that their unemployment benefits have run out.

      I don?t make this stuff up, I just report on it.

      • #2728618

        You Nailed It……..

        by answerman

        In reply to Here’s what happens in today’s business climate

        John…

        I too am not a young man. (See previous posts in this thread by AnswerMan)….

        You have nailed this topic precisely. Matter of fact I saved your post to my HD for future reference.

        So we should all apply to our local Truck Driving Schools I guess… cause you’ll never teach a machine to do that… At least not while anyone involved in this thread is still around anyway.

        • #2728534

          AMEN, AMEN, AMEN to Both of You

          by sidelinequarterback

          In reply to You Nailed It……..

          I actually had one Intellect (when applying for a Project Manager position) ask me if I was familiar with Gnatt charts and Critical Path Management (i.e. functions of Microsoft Project). When I informed this Intellect that these were functions of MS Project, he says “are you sure?”. Needless to say, the conversation didn’t go far.

          They’re trying to fill positions that they have NO idea about the requirements, skills needed, etc. etc. They’re just pushing positions that they have NO idea about. Pretty scary!

        • #2728505

          Ha ha

          by kirm

          In reply to You Nailed It……..

          It’s funny you should say that. Right now here in Alberta Canada truck driving is an extremely hot profession. And in most cases it will pay better than an IT job.

      • #2728591

        new business climate

        by jasoncctc

        In reply to Here’s what happens in today’s business climate

        It seems to me that the wave of the future is in small businesses. It rather makes sense given the cyclical nature of perpetual systems. It encourages the question of whether business is a perpetual system though. 馃檪 I sometimes wonder if big business is necessarily heading for extinction or, at least, a serious thinning of the herd.

        • #2728532

          Thinning of the Herd – You BET YA, it’s called offshoring.

          by sidelinequarterback

          In reply to new business climate

          Yep, the “herd is thinning”. 600k USA IT jobs went offshore to India, etal in 2003 with 1 in 10 estimated to go offshore in 2004 and 3.3 million by the year 2015 (some estimate sooner – perhaps 2010). So, recruiters can be picker (if that’s possible).

          This is no excuse for their outrageous behavior, just some info on the “thinning of the herd”.

          What we really need is a large protest to offshoring and the H1B, L1 visa programs (i.e. the importing of cheap Indian, Chinese, etc.) labor which is undermining our job situation.

      • #2728577

        “Who writes these things?”

        by delphiguy

        In reply to Here’s what happens in today’s business climate

        John, you are like a spring of water on this desert of grumbling. Your humorous, though all to real, example of a job description demonstrates one of the biggest problems in the world of IT. Managers don?t have a clue about what we do. Therefore, they search for personnel some like this. Speaking to the (now infamous) incompetent recruiter he says, ?I need a portrait of my Scottish Terrier. So, find me someone who has 5 years of experience painting dogs, preferably Scottish Terriers. The recruiter, now in contact with Monet, asks him if he has this experience. ?No, I mostly paint scenery.? (I?m making this up of course.) Next, Renoir calls the recruiter, who asks him the same question. ?No. but I’m sure I can do it.? ?Don?t call me I?ll call you?, he replies. Finally the recruiter hits the proverbial jackpot. John Doe has 7 years experience painting dogs, including Scottish Terriers? on black velvet.

        By the way, I answered one of those $25/hour postings and said, ?If you can triple that, please reply to this e-mail.? I got the job.

      • #3305236

        If I laughed any harder, I’d die!

        by mauryyoung

        In reply to Here’s what happens in today’s business climate

        I’m an old broad myself and you and I have the same opinions as seen (evidenly) through the same eyes.

        Thanks for relieving some of the hostility from working in IT FOREVER.

    • #2728640

      Another example of Recruiter Deception…

      by questor1

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Don’t always believe the online and newspaper ads that recruiters place for supposed positions! The recruiting agency may be only trying to stock their resume pool by falsely advertising IT positions that are not really available…

      I use to work for several years at Robert Half (RHIS) where I got to talk at length with one of their former recruiters. The recruiter told me that their Regional Director for RHIS told the Branch Recruiters to place ads for positions that did not exist in Internet and newspaper ads. The deceptive intent was to build a fresh pool of resumes where employers had a age bias in favor of younger IT pros just out on street. Older IT pros were simply not presented to client companies by RHIS in this age descrimination method that is illegal for companies to apply towards employees, but not for contract workers.

      Needless to say, I never chose to work for RHIS after that point. I personaly find RHIS conduct disgusting because their false ads and lack of IT personal management skills showed me just how much of a “body shop” they are. My bad experiences with RHIS convinced me to stay away from contracting.

      The question should be: does IT recruiting from “body shops” such as RHIS or offshore outsourcing companies constitute age descrimination of IT workers?

      • #2728598

        Ageism is Rampant with IT agencies

        by gfawcett3

        In reply to Another example of Recruiter Deception…

        I also interviewed with the same company (in Manhattan) and the 22-23 yr old drizzle-headed, perfectly faced, perfectly clothed, social climbing, snot-nosed valley girl wannabe brought me up to the common coffee room, left me sitting at the table for 20 minutes and returned saying “You’re to Senior for any positions we currently have available, please fill out our forms and we will contact you if anything comes up!!!!!!!!”
        I responded to a 3AM DICE posting by 7AM and interviewed by 11:00 the same day to an ad that said “IMMEDIATE NEED for desktop deployment crew…”
        I think she almost died when she saw a 6’1″ 210 lb 50 yr old applying for an IMAC position.
        I went to college in my middle forties with a triple major in Surveying Technologies, Mathematics and C.I.S. and beat out 99% of all the other students with International Honor Society, Honor Roll, Mathematics Scholarships, Deans List, Presidents List – for what?
        I can put 100 lbs on a shelf 7 feet off the floor with no ladder or assistance of any kind and roll out twenty PC’s a day – from loading dock to network connectivity (8-hr day).
        I also can work six 11-hr days a week.
        I would have worked for the $20/hr they were offering even though i used to get $40 plus overtime till Feb 01′.
        You’re right about this agency – but MANY others also do the same thing.
        I don’t think I’m to good to crawl around on the floor, why do these uncool children have to act like the position wouldn’t be suitable for someone with my “Senior” skillset?
        I wasn’t to Senior when Tower 7 fell on BNY to roll-out 4,000 PC’s, and I wasn’t to senior for the Y2K bomb-fright-night rollover and all the related work before and after that non-event.
        I guess we Senior desktop guys are OK fodder to leave on site for defcon 4 and 5 but no longer worthy of a regular job for defcon’s 1, 2 and 3…………

    • #2728639

      Caveat Emptor !!

      by dilbert_envy

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Yes they are mostly VERY BAD.

      However, hidden amongst the piles of dung, there are a few diamonds. Since most of us want the diamonds, we need to wash away the dung first. I do that with a few high-pressure questions:

      1 ? Please send me an Email with a complete description of the ?opportunity?, and all of your contact information ? including your physical address and best time to contact you.
      2 ? Exactly how does your company work with the prospective END client, and how long have you been working with them.
      3 ? What compensation range does your client have in mind? (No, I don?t disclose rates before I know enough about the opportunity to make an informed decision.)
      4 ? Please explain how you manage communications with me about this ? and any other ? position. When can I expect information on your progress?
      5 ? Understand that I CAN NOT let you submit me until I know everything I need to know about the position ? INCLUDING THE NAME OF THE CLIENT. (How the client expects us job searchers to control double submittals is beyond me ? but they do.)

      If I don?t get good answers, I forget about the dung ? because that?s all it is.

      • #2728595

        Excellent Tip !!

        by answerman

        In reply to Caveat Emptor !!

        I was always taught to “interview the interviewer”….. “own” the interview. That is how we do this guys…. Push them into learning their craft, or quit and become a greeter at Walmart, or learn to ask “Would you like fries with that?”…..

        Expect more professionalism, by demonstrating it ourselves !!

        DOROTHY…. WAKE UP !!

        ,, you don’t really expect any of that will work do you?… NAH !!! But it felt DAMN GOOD to say ! Every now and then, you just WANNA believe we can change things, just one time…….

        I crack me up…..

    • #2728637

      I have to agree

      by cmccord

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I’ve been unemployed for almost 1 year now. I’ve contacted just about every headhunter I could find on the internet. I’ve yet to get a single call back. No, it’s not my resume like so many spamming resume sights claim. I been there, done that, too. I believe the headhunters can be very picky right now and don’t feel they have to follow up with everyone who contacts them.

      Unfortunately for these headhunters, the economy is in the process of turning around and they will have to deal with those of us who they’ve shunned in the past or they won’t have anyone to place. The tables are about to turn.

      • #2694204

        Indeed it is….

        by l.barbetti

        In reply to I have to agree

        Indeed it is… The economy is turning around and have many signs of this happening. I still remember those (sad) days when I left the Company I was working for, almost smashing the door because of the way they treated me. Now, have recently been contacted by three Agencies in three weeks, all of them have a resume that dates back to not less than 6 years ago! I didn’t even want to hear from them, I refused each and every proposal they eventually had to make, altogether.

        Perhaps they will learn the lesson….

    • #2728630

      The Largest Waste Of Skin On The Planet

      by answerman

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      RECRUITERS !!!!!!!!!!! BAH HUMBUG !!!!!!!!

      I have been victim to recruiters “fancies” for over a decade, but it was never more laughable, then when I reinvented myself to capitalize on IT skills, that I always seemed to find myself doing anyway… So after A+, N+ and MCP…. here I am (thinking, I can’t miss now… REAL WORLD experience, PLUS the Cert’s !! OMG it’s a winner)…

      Much like the current theme that seems to be running here, and for fear of speaking out earlier based on invoking yet MORE wrath from them just in case they actually ever did find a job for anyone, anywhere…… I am totally fed up with IT Staffing Agents.

      Then I thought, “What could they NOT do for me, any worse than they are already NOT doing for me?” ……..

      I and several of my colleagues, each have about 12 resume’s. It is a must to show a pattern/path of congruous learning, (so that it looks like a “solid” history to these minimum wage or even worse “commission only” agents), but at no time can you show the entire depth of your knowledge, because you will get the “NO ANSWER” option that exists in the agents repetiore…… BECAUSE WE ARE TOO QUALIFIED??

      My associates and I are “dumbing down” our experience, so that we can keep working.

      I actually had to go to the president of one of these “conglomerate” type firms, after sending three resume’s for a specific position. It was a simple traveling “helpdesk” of sorts, regional area around me, didn’t pay much, only listed as a 3-6 month position, BUT..

      I applied for it, because it would fit right in with broadening my experiences, I have over 20 years of customer service / sales skills, run a business doing this now, (so the interfacing with all types people, isn’t an argument for non-consideration), yadda yadda yadda…….

      I had to engage in a series of emails with this recruiter, first assuring him that the pay was adequate… (had to use the old “20% of what you want is better than 100% of nothing” line), and then assuring him that I was NOT overqualified for the job (that was a funny email, I read for laughs daily), and finally he decides not to present me …….. (ready?)…….

      Because it’s most likely a full time job (wait.. didn’t it say 3 to 6 mo’s?), and your not going to work for that long, for that little money, first sign of something better, and you’ll be out??

      Wait….. isn’t that what we call “life”? When did THAT part not become my decision?

      Sorry for the length of this post, I could go on for some time, and at some length, but for right now…. this will have to do to present my case.

      I think they all should find a real job someday, or better yet, be forced to come to ME someday for a job, and let me “nitpick” and make them dance, vying for a position that is most certainly beneath them, in competition with other over-qualified candidates, for less money than they’d ever thought that they’d make in the IT field…….

      I am a firm believer in “what goes around, comes around”…. for their sake, buy a franchise and be safe……

    • #2728629

      Now I’m leery of even responding……

      by gail1999

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      My experience has been much the same. When they are interested….you should respond in a nanosecond….then you should re-write your resume to emphasize some minor point that’s obvious to a real IT person. Then, they drop off the face of the earth. Gee, could it be the company wasn’t interested???? This has happened to me 3 times in the past 6 months or so.
      A little common courtesy would be nice. They all seem to be adept at searching the resume databases…maybe they could drop an email to say ‘thanks, but no thanks’.

      Anybody out there got any ideas how to deal with these people and not feel totally used????

      • #2728621

        Here’s what you do…..

        by answerman

        In reply to Now I’m leery of even responding……

        First.. get some business cards with big impressive numbers (like N.Y. City) or something… identifying YOU as looking for talented recruiters for your multi-conglomerate firm… and tell them “they have come to your attention”…..

        Then put them through the “dog & pony” show for a couple weeks…. asking all sorts of inappropriate questions, taking exception to everything on their resume, questioning anything that even SOUNDS like it could be a potential problem on a sunday if it’s raining, during a nuclear attack…. and then………

        LEAVE…. NEVER CALL…… LEAVE EM HANGING !!

        About two months later, start the whole process again, with a different name… now if I could just hit the lottery to support my “payback” businesses…….. I’d be a happy camper.

        • #2728502

          FUNNY!

          by kirm

          In reply to Here’s what you do…..

          That was hillarious! Like you, I wish I was independently wealthy so I could spend all my time causing idiots grief. To dream the impossible dream.

        • #3182592

          What a vindictive bunch.

          by sjohnson175

          In reply to FUNNY!

          With independent wealth the last thing I want to do with what little precious time God grants us on this Earth is actively spend it on idiots.

      • #2728588

        Don’t BE used – “Use” them

        by delphiguy

        In reply to Now I’m leery of even responding……

        It’s true. The recruiters have absolutely no interest in us other than making a sale. Though, I have run across some very nice recruiters.

        Instead of thinking about how they wish to “use” me, I “use” them. I have a database of about 35 recruiting firms. I simply call them one by one, update them with my status and resume revisions, and let them decide what they wish to do with me.

        A good way to develop a recruiter database is to search for jobs on Dice, Monster, etc. and contact the firms who are posting jobs that best fit your skills. Then let them do the work of finding a position you are well suited for.

        • #2695102

          Great Advice

          by isgirl

          In reply to Don’t BE used – “Use” them

          A recruiter database is a great idea. You should mass email them, fax them and call them frequently to let them know that you are still in the market. Get a face-to-face if you have time.

          I also let all recruiters know that I am working with other recruiters and that I have contacted most of the major employers in town myself already. This way, if I have sent my resume and the recruiter sends me on an interview, I simply mention my previous submission to the interviewer. The employer can decide if they want to pay a commission to the recruiter or not.

          Contact your local or regional Chamber of Commerce for a business or industry directory. There is usually a small charge but this directory will contain the names, addresses, phone numbers and business of all major employers in your area – plus the name or the HR Manager and and President of the company.

      • #2728499

        How Not to Feel Used

        by sql guy

        In reply to Now I’m leery of even responding……

        If you don’t want to feel used by the sleazy recruiters out there, either: 1) avoid them completely or 2) treat ’em like prostitutes. Make them suggest things like what keywords they look for in a resume, and what experience should be emphasized in the process. Let them be your testing ground for phone and personal interviewing techniques. Then, when you’ve perfected your game and pimped them all out, apply directly to employers and use your new found skillz to land a good job.

    • #2728627

      TheyRHorrible

      by mr.telecom

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      These recruiters are nothing but a bunch of vampires. I had 4 recruiters contact me for the same IT position begging for my resume and contact information. Once they received my information, they never called back to let me know the status of the position. They could stand to learn some manners about common courtesy.

      • #2728514

        They are horrible?

        by davidson

        In reply to TheyRHorrible

        You sent your resume to 4 recruiters for the same position and you think they are horrible? I expect the client told them that you were being submitted by everyone in town, put a lot of egg on their faces and gave the client the impression that you were desperate or maybe your skills weren’t what your resume said. Don’t ever give your resume to more than one recruiter for the same position. Also, make sure the recruier (commissioned salesman) really has a a rapport with the client.

    • #2728625

      Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      by the admiral

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Two things. Both really crappy Human Resource people and the fact that really bad Microsoft Certified Engineer Drones have given the industry a bad rap.

      First, the resourcing people have gotten to the point where there is no longer exclusive access to them for positions. They hire and fire rather than keeping the qualified people on, so when you have someone who is extremely skilled and the hire and fire them, that kind of work is no longer palatable. So for the most part those people are going off and doing something else that is more stable. The resource companies are no longer a way to go for decent employment.

      Second, with the inflow of too many Microsoft Certified Professionals and Engineers, the once lucrative certification is getting a really bad name because people without a high school education have these things and don’t even know that for every machine their are drivers that make the machine run. One of Techn Republics own could not figure out why the system kept crashing and ran like a boatload of molasses. He installed the Motherboard drivers and wow, what a difference. So now more than ever you can have a MSCE if you want, but now you need to have verifiable experience in order to get one of those (close to being completely outsourced) positions.

      Where does that leave the IT industry? Well, as soon as I get my third BS, I am out of it completely.

    • #2728616

      Loving the moaning! LOL

      by seb.miller

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I am new to this place, having been sent the link from a friend, and I have enjoyed your various posts. However, if I may introduce myself as an ex-contractor and current IT Recruiter and not get stoned to death – you are missing some simple things to do with Life, the Universe & Everything. FIrstly, a postee was correst, you are all business’ so look for for a businesslike operation to help you. Secondly, you have to realise that many (many, many, many) recruitment agencies employ youngsters to simply hit the phones – something like 150 qualified calls per week is an average! So they will post an ad, get in loads of CV’s and then farm the CVs for info; your availability and skillset and the current needs of the company. Doh! People, thats current business practice – live with it. If you simply fire off 50 CVs to 50 positions then you will, naturally, get calls from berks, wont you?

      What you people dont appreciate is that is costs about ?1500 to get from client job, through adverts, searches, phone calls, another CV, another dozen calls, CV smooth and some more calls, on through to 2nd interview. ?1500. For each job the company hold. And the company gets NO money if the candidate isnt accepted. So, in terms of time/motion it could cost a company many thousands of pounds for nothing!

      Yes, I would agree that there are loads of people working in my industry that are only in there because its indoor work with no heavy lift – or thinking, for that matter. I am an ex-contractor and was fairly unique at the time. SO, my advice? Look for a person that is an REC member – not the company, the person. Look for someone who seems to be skill-specific rather than ‘South East’ or ‘London Central’ – I am sure you know the ones.

      And look at yourselves! If you continue to jack up the prices ever time you change a contract, then you must expect industry to eventually baulk at your requests. Although the rate of the Client/Agency is non of your business (I certainly never disclose) you must appreciate that rates are from 5% – 50% depending on the agency, position and difficulty of providing the service. Face it, some of you are asking for bloody silly money, and if an agency is on a Preferred Supplier List (the way of business) then they will have been given a budget and if you go in ?20 over that, then you are stuffed, arent you?

      I have had applicant contractors get as far as 2nd i’v and change the rate. I dropped him – there and then. BANG – I proposed another guy who got the job, stayed there for about 18 months and loved it. I have had guys complain about the location. What? They moved? Wigan moved? Oh come ON – cant you read a flipping MAP for Gods sake?

      And how nay of you actually help the agency? I mean you email a fresh CV. GO to the i’v and get the job. How many of you actually ask the agent out for a drink to say thanks? Or send them a card at Christmas? Very few I would imagine.

      I have been in this industry for 10 years having been an IT contractor for about 9 years. I have a tiny client base who buys on a regular basis and need a wide range of development, training, testing, comms and sales skills. I visit every client and try and meet every applicant. Why? Because I treat everyone as I would like to be treated; nothing more, nothing less.

      Have a nice career.

      Seb

      • #2728608

        Where’s that cart with the stones on it??

        by answerman

        In reply to Loving the moaning! LOL

        England perhaps…. and your point would be well taken….. The cost is a whining issue that doesn’t ring true, at least in the U.S.

        In the U.S. recruitment firms bill a minimum of $35 per hour to any client. If they are paying you $13 per hour…. you do the math.

        If they bill less, like say $25 per hour, it is for jobs that they are paying $8 or $9 per hour, under the false premise that, this job could go permanent.

        So you keep your nose clean, never miss a day, always perform your position, make EVERYONE absolutely happy to be around you (don’t want/ can’t afford not one dissident), and at the end of 6 months, they offer you a job for .. $9 per hour.

        We should all start temp agencies, so we should all have such prob’s as the cost to recruit someone ……….

      • #2728447

        I agree and somewhat disagree

        by lesjohns

        In reply to Loving the moaning! LOL

        as a computer consultant with 35+ years of experience, a CPA, and a PE, I have found validation of CV; networking with recruiters, peers,and businesses; continous training; and good old fashion salesmanship have kept me working all but a total of 8 months in 35+ years.

        Some recruiters are bad, some are good, some are great. Some IT consultants are bad, some are good, and some are great. We are carpenters, plumbers, etc who build houses of words, pictures, thoughts, we labor. Few of us have ever had the chance to really be creative (do something not done before).

        We complain about pay, conditions, etc. Yes, Virginia people want to get the most for the least, and we want the most for the least. So the econ model is alive and well and the brokers (recruiters) in the middle are taking there cut.

        What are we worth? Is there a package someone else already wrote for 59.99 or even 5999.99 why are we worth that per hour or job?

        I do tech interviews for my recruiters 1. to make sure the person sitting next to me on a job is not a mill stone. 2. So the recruiter will look a little harder for my next position.

        I have friends who gripe and groan continously and I feel sorry for them. Sure, it ain’t perfect but I have never not had a job. When I have been on the bench, I work harder than my contract employer ask me to work for them. I put in a 12 hr day 8 in search and 4 in training in something to enhance my skills. It works

        keep learning

      • #2728442

        Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

        by kargitane

        In reply to Loving the moaning! LOL

        A lot of us have spent years getting training, certifications, and taking our jobs very seriously, only to be treated like busboys at a country club. Finger snapping clients, recruiters who “make their case” by whining, and complaining that we ask for “bloody silly money” when the truth is, like any other professional, we expect to be compensated FOR the years of training, certifications, etc. Go to a doctor, and tell him you’re sick, but you don’t like his rates so you’ll give him the privelege of treating you for the amazing amount of 10.00 an hour…and see what he says.

        • #2694208

          Good point!

          by l.barbetti

          In reply to Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

          Good point! I would only dream that the day will come when no more IT pros will be left around… At that point ONLY the recruiters and the Companies will remain around, discussing their rates one against the other. Meanwhile, the projects will be stuck, no one will be working on them and both will shrink completely… I have a dream!

        • #2694206

          Some validity but…

          by oz_media

          In reply to Reply To: IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

          You’re right someone who spends time learning a skill should be compensated accordingly.

          I just don’t see IT as fitting the bill though. Sure SOME people spend years studying and trinaing for IT, bnut if it is THAT hard to find IT work without a cert, why even spend the time. It’s not like you will ever be paid what you’re worth unless you are doing your own thing, if so and you get outsourced you need to speak to one of your other personalities.

          Unfortunately, during the DOT COM boom, some people decided to make IT appear to be a unique and prized skill that you should get some esteem from. These people were LISTED as millionaires, only to find themselves broke a year later, and therefore figured they must be the elite.

          It doesn’t take four years to obtain an MCSE, everyone has one, you can probably buy your certs at WalMart next year. It doesn’t take four-six years to obtain your MCNE. Don’t expect to be treated or paid as a doctor or lawyer, you’re not saving lives, your not destroying lives, you are fixing computers. With the way that technology is moving today, and the way that EVERY kid can practically build a Windows Server, tomorrow don’t be surprised if a monkey takes your job. What used to be a skill is now becoming common knowledge, once you realize that you are no more valuable than a grade 12 grad, who is actualy more aware of technology changes, you will be better off and either more comfortable working for less or looking for a real career.

    • #2728614

      The recruiting dilemma.

      by estrategias

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Most IT recruiters have some miniscule exposure to buzzwords, or are given a few essential buzzwords to recognize in a resume, and based on that they could earn significant income. Recruiters get their buzzwords from human resource staff that probably shares the same level of competency as the recruiter with regard to IT. Add a certification requirement to the job specification and things become easier for the recruiter and HR. The recruiting process now becomes a process of eliminating resumes/candidates. In that process resumes representative of good education and experience, but not adequately inclusive of relevant buzzword get discarded. There are two issues involved here, the IT recruiter gets overwhelmed by too many resumes to read, and even if the resumes were read they would still remain incomprehensible to the recruiter.

      In conclusion one could assert that for the recruiting dilemma to improve (assuming jobs are available), some number of people who have worked in IT need to become involved in IT recruiting or HR. Also, if any group of people should be required to have a license to practice, it should be IT recruiters.

    • #2728601

      “The whole system is breaking down”

      by notcarsondaly

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      First, some background. At my cuurent job, we are trying to hire two more people to add to our team. It seems that the technical recruiter position at this company is definitely a dynamic position at best. We have gone through 3 different recruiters in about 6 months. The first 2 left the company for various reasons but were most likely not with the company long enough to qualify for full benefits. All 3 recruiters have been difficult to deal with internally. They have also all given false information to potential candidates for the two positions we have had open. Several instances of scheduling interviews without notifying either the candidate or the hiring managers come to mind. However, when I was going through the hiring process here as a candidate, I found the process very smooth and defined. Keep in mind, that was 3 years ago. I really think the system is still there and can work, if everyone works within it.

      Sometime between 3 years ago and today, a communication gap between hiring managers and techincal recruiters began to open up. It has gotten so bad that when I send a job description and requirements statement to the recruiters at headquarters for a Network Engineer position, heavy on the Cisco LAN/WAN side, I get about 20 resumes for MS SQL 2000 DBAs to review. This is no exaggeration, this actually happens. I have also seen and heard of resumes turned down by hiring managers, yet the recruiters somehow set up interviews with the candidates without notifying the hiring manager. That is something I have heard of at several companies. There is definitely some sort of communication problem within the recruitment process.

      Now not all problems with the recruiting process are a fault of the recruiter or the procedures (or lack thereof) they follow.

      I know I am going to catch hell for this but I really believe the market is light on legitimate talent. Of the 40 to 50 resumes we recieve that the recruiters have screened, on avaerage, 3 are worth an interview. Of those 3 interviews a week over the last 3 months, I think we have done 2 call backs. So, of 36 candidates, 2 have made it to the second round of interviews. Most of the people we bring in for interviews look great on paper. However, when asked the most basic questions about the skillsets or softskills we are looking for, they are lacking. I know it’s old news, but please, don’t lie on the resume and expect to be successful. Even if you get the job by some miracle, I can assure you will be terminated. Also, make sure you are not just a technical wiz that can talk ACLs, cron jobs, scripting, and SQL all day. Make sure you can talk to regular people in regular people speak.

      That is just my rant on the situations I have been in or I am in with recruiting and hiring at this point in my short career. It is in no way intended to make sense to anyone else. It’s just my way of venting on this topic.

    • #2728600

      Too Many & Too Few

      by gordon.rudd

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      With 26 years as an IT professional I feel confident that I can speak to this issue with at least some historical perspective if not authority. A couple two points jump out when I read the initial paragraph. One there are as has been stated in other postings on this issue too many IT recruiters. They have popped up during the time when it took sales talent to sell the marginally skilled IT worker to an unsuspecting Fortune 1,000 company that would be unable to fire the margin employee and would then still be in the market for talent to get the job done and meet deadlines. To be fair, in 26 years I have only found one HR person that understood what type of IT talent my firm needed and how to bring the talent into the firm. Two there are too few truly talented IT professionals today. Too many candidates claim skill levels they just don?t have. And with the job market being what it is, I can?t really fault them for trying to pay the mortgage.

    • #2728599

      I can relate to this

      by ejmuller1

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      It seems that in the past couple of weeks I have been getting a flurry of calls from recruiters, which is a nice thing. However, of the 10 or so who have contacted me most have turned out to be a bit on the flakey side. Several have left messages for me, which I have promptly returned only to get the recruiter’s voice mail. None of them have called me back. Why were they calling me in the first place??? Bizarre. Others have had long and positive conversations with me on the phone, promising to send me an email for me to reply to so I can send them my resume by return email, only to disappear.

      I am also heartily sick of the “hit and run” recruiters who bombard me with a blizzard of phone calls and emails and then, after I have gone on the interview they set up for me, never get back to me again. At all. If the interview didn’t go well or there was some other reason I wasn’t selected, would it kill them to call me and give me some feedback?

      We all know this is a killer job market. Companies are taking advantage of the large pool of job seekers by being excessively picky and demanding. They are also cutting salaries and benefits, which makes it difficult for recruiters to sell the job to the candidate. Many companies are also cutting the fees they are willing to pay recruiters, or choosing not to list jobs with agencies at all – bringing it all in-house.

      Things are tough all over. I have several friends who are recruiters – some single practioners and one who owns a rather large company. I hear from them how hard it is these days. But these people are the good guys – the ones who are true professionals at what they do. They understand the value of relationship building. If the interview they send me out on this week doesn’t pan out, they know that it is in their best interests to get me feedback from the company and to keep in touch with me. There may be a job in the future that I would be right for or I might be able to recommend a friend for another position they are filling.

      There seems to be a glut of inexperienced recruiters out there now; perhaps kids out of college who haven’t been able to find another type of job and are filling the ranks of the recruiting companies. They are very young, totally without skills and show no class in their dealings with candidates. Their attitude seems to be “If I can’t get anything out of you right now, I have no use for you.” This is not condusive to a postive relationship for anyone. It means that the next time they call me – and they will call me – I will not be so eager to get back to them. True, I might lose out on a possibility opportunity but I don’t like dealing with sharks, especially baby sharks.

      • #2728594

        Relationships

        by kargitane

        In reply to I can relate to this

        only go as far as the recruiter wants them to. I had a relationship with a recruiting firm for literally years, and all was well. The only time I didn’t work was when I chose to. Things changed, younger and more arrogant recruiters were brought in, and I found myself being submitted for interviews with jobs I had no interest in whatsoever. When I tried to delicately explain this, I was told “Well, maybe you don’t want to work with us then. When I send a candidate out, it’s expected that he do his best to land the position.” Translation: if you’re not putting money in my pocket, that’s it. If you’re unhappy in this job, that’s not my problem. I place you, I get money. You argue with me, I get nothing. Have a nice life.

        • #2728584

          Staffing companies

          by sade.akhigbe

          In reply to Relationships

          I have really enjoyed reading the comments posted on this site.
          I actually have had a pretty good experience with recruiters here in Canada (Toronto). I agree with having to send out all these resumes and not hearing anything back. We should all remember that we are living in the “employers market” time not the “employees market” time.
          I have applied for jobs both on Workopolis, Monster and from the newspapers and other websites. I have been called for interviews by a couple of companies, I actually did 3 interviews at some companies (minus the agency interview), the competition is very tight. At the end, after my hopes are raised, one decided to take my competition above me because the other guy had worked in a law firm before and I had not, another company decided not to take me because my experience was too wide (whatever that means) they wanted that but I have come to believe the job was not mine. It is hard to accept but you have to move on.
          The recruiter (CNC global, Asset, Planet4IT etc) actually communicate with me.
          My GREAT advice is to have a particular contact at these agencies (it is not easy, but you can get to that stage if you are determined), send them emails from time to time, keep in touch, you might contact them when they are looking for someone with your skill set. KEEP IN TOUCH WITH THEM.
          The annoying part for me actually is the agency interviews, “i need to put a face to the name”. I really hate that but at the same time, I guess it is part of the job.
          I understand that when you are looking for work when you are not working, you will be desperate, keep on looking, you will find, do not get frustrated with the recruiters, some of them are fake, remember some candidates are fake too. We are all human beings with fault.
          I will support if there is a regulating body that all recruiters will have to join to be able to operate. I hope we get there soon.
          All do not forget the newspapers, Companies will not spend money to advertise if there are no jobs to fill, I am not refering to the 4 to 5 word adverts in the “help wanted”.

          I wish everyone the very best.

    • #2728596

      Accenture

      by nnunevets

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I’ve had promises of interviews via Accenture which have never come about. Other than that my experiences have not been too bad.

      I’ve had more problems with IT firms miss-representing the extra expenses claimable for travel to make the poor hourly rate seem more palatable. In this case the agency was misled as well. It was a well known company supporting local government.

    • #2728593

      It’s all a game to them

      by regrahc

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      To these guys, it’s all about getting as many resumes as they can; I once took an entire day off work, drove for two hours to LA, and went through their entire interview process only to be blown off at the last minute. Every once in a while, I see the exact same job listing I was applying for on Monster. I found out later that they were trying to expand into the San Diego market, and in order to do this they needed local resumes that they could present to potential clients. That’s how these people bring in new business, and unfortunately they don’t care who they trample in the process. I worked under staffing agencies for about three years in the past, and I now refuse to work with them altogether; I’ve dealt with too many lies and broken promises. It’s just not worth it; these guys are vultures, and they’re a big part of the reason it’s so hard to make money in IT anymore.

      • #2694207

        That’s true!

        by l.barbetti

        In reply to It’s all a game to them

        I have a dream…. I’d dream that the day will come when no more IT pros will be left around… At that point ONLY the Recruiters and the Companies will be still around, discussing (fighting for) each other’s rates… Meanwhile, the projects will be stuck as no one will be working on them and both will shrink completely… This system is crap!

    • #2728589

      High Tech positions require High Tech Recruiters

      by rudolph.schubert

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      “Work at home and be your own boss.” All the recriters I have met must have been hired for these positions. With multiple college degrees and 30+ years of experience, I do not wish to speak with a person with nop experience at all.

      I have had recruiters email me to say all the cross-outs are on my resume(a word document), to please send a new one. I called them back to ask what experience they have with MS word, let alone recruiting for these positions.

    • #2728585

      Recruiters are becoming Impediment

      by consultant123

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I would have to agree with raycaldwell73.

      I have worked with very few IT recruiters lately, last 2 years, that I would consider helpful or useful.

      Either they don’t understand the position fully or the requirements necessary to place the candidate. I have wasted a lot of time with these people and have started screening these guys myself.

      I recently went on an interview, only to find that the position I thought I was applying for, according to the recruiter, didn’t really exist. Blah

      A lot of the recruiters are not experienced enough in real IT background to help the clients.

      These folks, in my humble opinon, are doing a huge disservice to the IT industry.

    • #2728583

      The old-fanshioned way seems to work better…

      by drujenn

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      After dealing with a number of IT recruiters with little to show for it, I decided to go about my search the old-fashioned way. I found five job postings for my local area (by local, I mean within an hour of my home), printed out my resume on fine business paper, made a lot of phone calls to find out the names of receptionists, HR managers, and hiring managers, wrote personally-addressed cover letters to those people, got in my car and hand-delivered my resume to five companies.

      For all that work, I received five phone interviews, three follow-up personal interviews, and two job offers. This experience alone will keep me from ever relying on recruiters, or email responses to job postings again. The only person who is going to look after me is me.

      On a side note, I think that the only guarantee of employment in the IT sector anymore is self-employment, and I’m looking very hard at that now.

      • #2728570

        5 for 5 is amazing

        by delphiguy

        In reply to The old-fanshioned way seems to work better…

        May I ask what the size of these companies is? Are they fortune 500 or better?

        I have been self-employed for 5 years. In the 10 years before that I had 2 offers to jump ship and work for their company, bypassing the middle man. But in these last five years that has changed completely. Even after a year of exceeding their expectations, when given the chance to work with me directly and save a lot of money, this fortune 1000 company refused to eliminate their buffer; the consulting firm.

        There is nothing I would like more, than to eliminate the entire IT recruiting world. But they offer security to a client that must trust them completely because they don?t have any clue about the technology they need for their company. If the recruit fails, the staffing firm will replace him/her and not bill the company for those hours. I cannot offer that.

        • #2728323

          It seemed to work

          by drujenn

          In reply to 5 for 5 is amazing

          Two of the companies I applied with were Fortune 500 (I received an offer from one of them). The other three were local or regional, and I’m currently working for one of them.

          I agree about companies not really knowing what they need technology-wise. It’s hard to sell your skills when the person who is interviewing you has no idea what to ask, or seems to be interviewing you for a different job than the one you applied for.

    • #2728582

      Left out in the Cold all Winter….

      by davidtcurran

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I was using a staffing firm, when I kept on sending my recruiter everyjob that I was looking at per our agreement. She wanted me to do that so she could help deal with me. Unfortunately for someone who was paid to network, ended up knowing nobody, and I was told to send all my applications in on my own behalf after the job was posted for a few days (which means I had no shot in H#$% at that point). I ended up getting an email from her one day, saying she was going to be out on leave and her manager was taking over her accounts. I have yet to hear from her manager at all and it’s been 3 months….

    • #2728575

      Staffing Agencies

      by pjhurani

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I wished so much that somebody should open up pandora box on this topic. Staffing agencies are such a necessary evil with less emphasis on necessary because most of staffing agencies are not providing any value in the chain. The whole concept of staffing compensation was with finders fee or a one time fees. But now the staffing companies take the good portion of candidate hourly rate. They dont want one time compensation/finders fee. They want to take gulps every hour and not provide any formidable value every hour or even a day or a month. This causes loss to both the employer and the employee. Unhappy employee will leave as soon as he finds something better. Employer/Client will pay in long run with overhead of again interveiwing new people , getting them up to the speed and the cycle starts again.
      Why cant staffing companies come up with a better model for themselves to survive before its too late. Sooner or later companies are recognizing this loss in value and are coming up with their own processes where they can take this middle man out unless they add a recurring value.

    • #2728574

      Me too…

      by bytethebit

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      My situation is that with a company called Interactive Business Systems. They set up an interview with Discover Card for me. When I went to the interview, the interviewer never showed. I later found out that the interviewer was seriously sick, and that her assistant had just left for maternity leave. Fine, I understand that, and that’s when this staffing company said they would get back in touch with Discover Card to reschedule another interview. Well, it’s been almost 3 weeks and I haven’t heard anything from anyone. Neither the staffing agency nor Discover Card has contacted me, although I feel it’s the staffing agency’s responsibility to notify me. I’ve repeatedly called and e-mailed them to no avail. I feel I should at the very least be entitled to a 2nd interview given the fact that the first one never happened and I was never notified by either party.

    • #2728571

      I guess I’m not the only one…

      by cweb

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      You are so right! Are these agencies the only one left that look for IT jobs? And to make matters worse none have any idea of the nature of the IT industry. Having spent a few years as an Independent Contractor I’ve racked up about a half dozen different clients over a short period of time and that also confuses the recruiter. “Why so many different companies?” Hello!?

    • #2728568

      You Hit the Recruiter Nail Right On the Head !

      by thedr

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      It is refreshing to hear an ?honest? opinion on the state of IT recruitment today. Unfortunately, they don’t seem to adhere to any specific ethical procedures or codes of conduct which would exude any level of integrity. Interestingly, this only seems to be true in the IT industry. I know recruiters in other industries, such as Accounting and finance, which conduct business with the highest level of integrity. If I was in the IT recruitment business, I would consider it not only professional courtesy, but a simple matter of basic intelligence to keep my candidates updated regularly with an honest status. I would also follow up with an employer as to why a candidate was not accepted. The recruiters I have worked with are afraid to get a reason from employers for fear the employer will stop accepting their phone calls or refuse to review any more of their candidates because the recruiter is bugging them. I spent some time attempting to use Sologig.com awhile back. This was another joke. There were no direct employer contracts available, only recruitment companies fishing for consultants to give up 40% to 50% of their bill rate for a non-existent ?great job opportunity?. In an economy where bill rates have dropped 50 to 60% this is quite ridiculous. Additionally, they typically refused to offer corp-to-corp or 1099 arrangements. Other industries follow standard ?Good Management Practices? when conducting business. I have actually recommended to recruiters different procedures which I would consider ?Good Management Practices? with no success. I believe the IT recruitment industry as a whole needs to change, and they should be persuaded to follow a standard GMP policy for the industry which quite obviously does not exist today. The bottom line is that it has become a very unethical business where a non-technical person who cannot even spell the technical acronyms correctly, let alone understand them, believes they should receive an exorbitant hourly percentage for very little work in the placement process while conducting business in a very unprofessional manner. Most unfortunate indeed for the small businesses who are actually the technical experts!

      • #2728526

        1099

        by davidson

        In reply to You Hit the Recruiter Nail Right On the Head !

        Brian, There are several reasons why 1099 pay is getting harder to get. First, client companies insist on W-2 employees because they don’t want to take a chance on anyone coming after them for benefits when they leave. It has happened and so companies are gun shy. Next, if a 1099’er doesn’t pay his taxes, the IRS can come after the agency for the money they should have withheld. If they can’t get it there, they can go after the client company. Heck, 1099 is a great deal for an agency. The clients and Labor Attorneys just won’t allow it.

      • #3344723

        IT headhunter here with replies!!!

        by yobeech

        In reply to You Hit the Recruiter Nail Right On the Head !

        Hello everyone I have read a lot of the posts about the headhunters that never follow up. It’s true I felt the same way many of you have in the past. I was in IT before and have used many recruiters only to experience the same results. Now that I have switched over to IT I’m following with my conviction of not trying to be like those general recruiters out there who have no idea about the industry or their client. I really despised headhunters that never got back to me no matter how often I would call them or bug them. But now being in the business I am meeting with some of my old IT contacts and talking with them about what they do to try and get a better understanding; though I know I won’t be an expert on it at least I will have a better grasp of it and I will be honest to my candidates and up front with them as possible. If I don’t have jack with them but still I’d like to meet with them about maybe future possibilities. I think a lot of it has to do with timing. IE your skills represent the right skill that the client wants and also the headhunter remembers who you were and what impression you had on them so as to recommend you to their client. The market is get better but its true a lot of IT jobs are being outsourced for contract work so its making my job more focused on finding the really top of the class candidates that have the skills my clients want cuz most big companies dont want to hire perm. staff they are a cost for the company.

        Anyhow just try to be optimistic I think things will turn up!

        cheers

    • #2728566

      Must work on quota

      by tait

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      The problem is that recruiters will tell you they have all kinds of jobs lined up for you. After you reformat your resume to their liking take a bunch of skills evaluation tests and meet with them two or three times they say they don’t have anything but they’ll keep in touch. Then you never hear from them again. Thanks for wasting all my time for nothing. In the time I’ve wasted screwing around with some recruiter I could have landed an actual job somewhere else. They must get some kind of quota for getting you signed up in their system, that’s all I can figure because they sure don’t care about actually finding you a job.

    • #2728553

      Some good, some bad

      by jml02118

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Last March, after a wonderful 2 week vacation to Europe, I found my self unemployed (perfect timeing eh). So I started on my job search, letting everybody I knew that I was on the market for a job, posting my resume on the various job search sites, reading newspapers, searching company websites (not recruiter sites, but actual companies).

      6 months later, I still found myself without a job. At the same time I started receiving calls from recruiters that had seen my resume on job search sites. They mentioned jobs that they had that I would be a good fit for. So of course, I went in to meet with the recruiters. This happened with three different recruiting firms.

      The result: One never followed up with me, but responded to me when I followed up with them – We haven’t heard from the client yet (read: not interested, but don’t have the guts to tell you that). The second, submitted my resume as intended, followed up with me to tell me that the client had actually read the resume and that others needed to look at it as well before they went to the interview stage. The next followup was that I was not qualified enough and told me where I was not qualified. Every couple weeks after that, he would followup with me to see if I was still looking for work (at this point I was looking for a permanent position).

      Roughly two months after that, I received another call from a staffing agency. I told him that I was really looking for a permanent position, and he bluntly told me (whether its true or not or just a way to get me to interview is another story), but that the longer you are out of the job market, the harder it is to get a job. So I took his word, and decided to try the world of contracting. This person was very good. He knew exactly what the client was looking for, he worked on fine tuning my resume to really highlight the skills that I did have to entice the client, got me an interview, coached me on what exactly the client was looking for so that I could focus my energy on those skills. He followed up with my after the interview was over to how it went, and then the next day called me to congratulate me on getting the contract.

      It has been five months now that I have been working on this contract, that has already been extended a couple times. He emails or calls me once a month to see how the project is going, if I like the project and all that.

      The one recruiter that never followed up with me, I immediately told to remove me from their database, and to this date I have not heard a thing from them … thank goodness.

    • #2728541

      It Staffing AGencies

      by jbewlay

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      You are not alone Ray

      This has been my experience fro the last 5-6 years, perhpas it has got worse over the last couple of years, butnow I ask 1 major question

      “How soon does your client need someone” This tends to weed out about 80% of agencies who are just background cluter. If they come back with a more positive reply then the next question is ” If your client finds I have the skills and attributes which he needs will he make a decison on th spot” there are 3 answers
      1. Yes if so go for it
      2. No – Then it isn’t that urgent I have better things to do
      3. I don’t know/maybe Go away explain to your client good people are hard to come by and if you don’t decide now another employer will. All you end up doing is wasting my time (Agent), my resoures time (you) and your own time (Employer) You can add if the prohject start is delayed and the delivery date not moived it will be much harder to get teh right people.

      I know we shouldn’t be doing the agents job, but here is how it works. They get paid commission, becasue of teh structure. Resourcers then consultants ( can you beleive it) the resources have to find X number of people for consultants. The consultants then get paid on how many resources they place. So all a resourcer has to do is get you interested and bingo he gets his bonus. All the ‘Consultant’ has to do is get so many bodies in front of a client.

      BAsed on thsi rather cavalier approach I take the view of Bang out 10 Cvs this gets 1 interview. 10 Interviews gets a job. The numbers vary but this is the principle. Nothing Scientific, goood old facxhioned lottery. You can take it this is something of a hobby horse so befoere i really get going I’llgo

      Regards

      JimB

    • #2728540

      Old news my Friend….

      by fdohle

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I’ve been consulting since the mid eighties and went independent in 1989.

      These experiences are unfortunately pretty common. Most of the recruiters I’ve dealt with are pretty flakey – and unless you are pretty close to a “slam dunk” in terms of the clients requirements – don’t count on to much attention.
      – Lets face it – it’s been an employers market since 1999-2000 and these recruiters are “awash” in candidates.

      I have however developed decent relationships with a handfull of recruiters which I can count on for honest communication and professional follow-up. When you find agents like this – keep track of them !
      – Also – when they are submitting you for an opportunity here are a few more rules….
      a) Only allow one agency represent you at one client – they will not hesitate to double submit you – even if your disqualification ups the odds for another one of there canidates.
      b) Never tell them where other agents have submitted you – again – they could sabotage your chances in various ways – to give the advantage to one of thier cadidates.
      c) Insist they ask your permission before submitting you – If you are already represented there – just tell them your not interested in the job – don’t tell them that you’ve already been submitted – if your not sure about the integrity of the agent.

      Sorry – it’s a rough world out there – good luck!

      Cheers,
      Fred

    • #2728538

      Wow! My ears are burning

      by davidson

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I’m an IT Headhunter; not a recruiter. There is a distinction. I am also the one man show that I saw vilified in one of the responses. I work on request from clients of which I have precious few these days. I never take a person to market. This thread was sent to me by an IT friend. Yeah, we do have friends. I read about half of the replies to this attack and thought I would respond. First; Like you, I work for the person who pays me but never take money from applicants. However, I do owe the applicant the courtesy of never knowingly getting them into a bad career situation. Second: I don’t set the contract rates. The client does and I’m not doing this to just gain more experience. After 20+ years, I’ve done enough of this for fun. Third; I can’t always reply to every inquiry. I average 1 to 3 unsolicited resumes per day and several phone calls. Last year, I advertised a job on a well known job board. I was very specific about the qualifications and necessary certifications. I got hundreds of responses world wide. Now, understand this was for a certified Project Manager who spoke fluent Russian with Airline Revenue System experience. The client was a big Consulting house doing business with Aeroflot. It was a contract to hire deal. I actually got 3 qualified people from the advertisement. I got about 50 phone calls. Could I respond to everybody? You do the math! Oh yeah, Aeroflot found someone on their own. Next, I have been screwed by applicants and clients alike. I generally tell the applicant who I am recruiting for. I have had a lot of instances over the last 20+ years where the IT guy either told his recruiter buddy about the deal or realized they knew someone there and applied by themself. As I said, I’m no longer doing this for fun. I have also on various occasions not been paid by the client. BTW, on contracting deals, I pay 75% on a W-2 and 80% on a 1099 deal. More than anyone else. I am still considered a bloodsucker even though I usually have a 5 month break even time. Oh yeah, try affording the Workers Comp, General Liability and others types of junk insurance insisted on by companies. FYI, this morning I have reviewed 2 resumes of friends of friends and recommended changes. No cost. I don’t know what it is like other places but in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, we are currently running about a 15% unemployment rate for IT people. We get very few requests these days. It is estimated that not over 10 to 15 % of the Recruiters remain in business. The rest of us are back to cold calling HR Departments. It’s niether easy, profitable nor rewarding these days. But, we are still easy targets.

    • #2728533

      They Stink

      by mogliak

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      They call and ask for a resume ASAP. You respond ASAP then they never call back, no your not qualified, you have the wrong skill set, you smell etc… When they call and leave a message
      and you return the call they always ask ” do you know why I called ?? ”
      Can’t stand them !! But how do we get jobs ???

    • #2728531

      They can’t be the WORST

      by ncurigbewt

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I agree with many of the observations of poor practices by IT recruiting organizations. They are not the worst because if they were, none of us would be using them. Could it be the worst is actually building a network of contacts and dealing with employers directly ? Another idea is to create a job search solution like you would create a software solution. Use your analytical skills to map, find problems and create systems. Decide where IT recruiters fit into the solution. Good IT people are too smart to use the WORST method. Above all make it FUN. Okay sorry about that. One last thought is that I think it would be impossible to read and follow the ideas in the Book “What Color is you Parachute ?” and not have a great job within 6-8 months.

    • #2728529

      IT-Recruiters: Are They Taking Too Much?

      by bxpeters

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I have a serious issue with the whole “rate submittal” process for consultants. The rates vary widely from state to state, sometimes based on cost of living, sometimes based on availability (supply & demand). The client companies nor the recruiting firms never discuss the actual rate paid. How do we (the consultant / contractor) know that the recruiting company is not ripping us off???

      Are their any state or federal guidelines for how much money they can take off the top? If I’m getting $50 /hr., should they be allowed to get $35-$40 /hr. on top of that just for writing a check??? That should be illegal. And then when consultants decided to become incorporated, the recruiters and clients cooked-up a scheme whereby they required you to work on a W2 basis so that they could justify paying you as an employee, thereby taking out of the equation the negotiating of the hourly rate. They now dictate to you what you will be getting paid. This practice really bites!!!

      I’ll bet if independent consultants decided to form a union (and not in the classic “union” case) that would regulate the industry, we could put most of the “middlemen” out of business and begin demanding better rates, because their would be a central “body” of people who would know what the real “supply and demand” picture looks like.

      We are the only industry that is being “jerked around” like this and it’s time that the madness stops!!!

      So, who has enough backbone to “step-up” and fight for what we deserve? There are enough of you who are unemployed that you have nothing to lose. So, what say ye?

    • #2728525

      D O N ‘ T E V E N G E T M E S T A R T E D

      by bolter

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I read some the posts and I have my own point of view to share. Although it may not be comical or well written it will be my honest opinion.

      I work with about 6 different recruiting firms and individuals within each of them. In the almost 5 months now that I have been unemployed I have yet to get a call from anyone of these “Professionals” and I use that term loosely. Each and everyone one of the Consultanting firms boast that they are IT recruiters with plenty of jobs to fill.

      My qualifications are over 15 years in IT with MCSE Cert. and my last position was IT Operations Supervisor for a large Pharma company. Also, I only have a 2 year Assoc. Degree.

      Now with that said, my resume is posted on several of the popular online job boards and I receive daily e-mails from each with new job listings based on my search agent criteria. I see job postings out there regularly for positions that I’m interested in and apply for them daily. This has not been sucessful either. My resumes seem to go into this large abyss some where never to surface again.

      Getting back on track I call the recruiters with this information about these jobs and they are clueless or don’t work for these major companies. Who are they working for then? They can’t even locate one even remotley close match to my skills?????? Give me a break. I don’t even know how the firms are surviving. I have found more opportunities with my own job searches than all 6 of my recruiters put together. They folks are clearing asleep at the wheel.

      I have receieved phone calls from firms out of state who want a fee to help me. Yeah help separate me from my cash. If my local recruiters can’t help me I don’t see any one of these out of state firms will help. This is a interesting job market to say the least and appearently hiring companies can be very selective and wait for the perfect candidate. Heck I’ve seen postings that require a specific GPA or better to even be considered.

      Anyways IMO recruiters are not working in your best interest and have no intentions of ever calling you. You must stay on top of things by calling them and keeping your name at the top of their minds. Even that will not secure you any hope.

      OK so I’m confised recruiters help by doing what?

      SWB

    • #2728524

      IT recruiters face turnaround

      by mikdee

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I went through an IT recruiter one time about two years ago. The person I was scheduled to be interviewed with, left the company 2 days before the interview (2 days after the scheduling.) I met with the second individual, his replacement. He seemed genuine and had sent me to two job interviews. I called back a week later and **poof** he was gone too.

      I was then turned over to the recruiting manager, who seemed too overloaded to even look over my r?sum?. The manager finally sent me on a job interview, which twice she called to cancel as I was on the way to the prospective company. After sending a couple of emails to the regional office regarding this headhunter, I decided to opt out of their program. This was not some small company, but a staffing agency with offices in 20 cities nationwide.

      About 6 months after I was hired by a company through my own prospecting, this staffing agency actually had the gall to call to see if I was interested in joining their team. To which I kindly declined.

      Morale of the story – check out the recruiter as well. Get a history overview and if there are several people handling your job prospecting, move on. Don’t let these folks turn you into cannon fodder for the $$$ they get when they contract with prospective employers.

    • #2728523

      Staffing agencies

      by philh123

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Ray, your analysis is not restricted to IT recuiters – they are all the same. I came from outside the IT industry and experienced the same . For a while I worked with a recruiter, the methodolgy is to create a ‘list’ of applicants – which they can charge for, have a ‘selection of short list -which they charge for, and finally select the best candidate that they already knew they wanted (from a rival company). In the case of IT, it’s also very very age discrimantory too. In short, it’s a numbers game! And don’t forget … when they have recruited a top guy away from Company A on behalf of Company B – they will then offer their services to Company A to recruit for them and charge the selection process all over again.

    • #2728518

      Data Sharing

      by lawrenceanderson

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I looked at several “dating” sites. These sites share and distribute information basically to have a larger pool of people for their clients to choose from. I about imagine that the same thing is happening with IT agencies and Recruiters that is data sharing. An employer wants to have a large pool of people to choose from just as I wanted a large pool of people to choose from at the dating sites. The employers are the ones with the cash and they get catered to. What the specifics are I have no clue. I am new to this field. My best answer!

    • #2728515

      Not all agencies are alike

      by fgladd3

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I guess I should start by saying that I am not nor have I ever been a recruiter. I have been working as an IT contractor for over 10 years and I have worked for some very reputable agencies. I cannot say that I have had only great experiences but in general, my experiences have been positive.
      With the downturn in the economy, I am sure there are a lot of unemployed contractors out there and when a posting comes along, the agencies are usually swamped. I have sent resumes to a lot of agencies for different postings and if i don’t get a response, I just write the experience off and move on. I have been contacted by some to notify me that I did not have the necessary qualifications or that they found others more qualified. I have no problem with that because they have a large pool to draw from. I have worked with contractors who were obviously over qualified for positions and I have worked with others who have obviously embellished their resumes to get a position. I can see that some agencies are swamped and don’t do proper due diligence before submitting candidates but generally I have found that they do a good job. Perhaps, if someone has a problem with a particular agency, they should just move on and write off the time spent to experience. Some obviously need to examine their own qualifications more honestly.

    • #2728513

      Not all agencies are alike

      by fgladd3

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I guess I should start by saying that I am not nor have I ever been a recruiter. I have been working as an IT contractor for over 10 years and I have worked for some very reputable agencies. I cannot say that I have had only great experiences but in general, my experiences have been positive.
      With the downturn in the economy, I am sure there are a lot of unemployed contractors out there and when a posting comes along, the agencies are usually swamped. I have sent resumes to a lot of agencies for different postings and if i don’t get a response, I just write the experience off and move on. I have been contacted by some to notify me that I did not have the necessary qualifications or that they found others more qualified. I have no problem with that because they have a large pool to draw from. I have worked with contractors who were obviously over qualified for positions and I have worked with others who have obviously embellished their resumes to get a position. I can see that some agencies are swamped and don’t do proper due diligence before submitting candidates but generally I have found that they do a good job. Perhaps, if someone has a problem with a particular agency, they should just move on and write off the time spent to experience. Some obviously need to examine their own qualifications more honestly.

    • #2728508

      IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      by usaatca2001

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I have to agree with raycaldwell73@hotmail.com. Have any of you people ever been sent on a job interview by a recruiter for a job that had already been filled? I have. Talk about feeling like an idiot!

      When I called the recruiter afterwards, can you guess what response I got? Does, “Let me look into it & I’ll get back to you” sound familiar? BTW, this was in 1997 & no, I’m not still waiting to hear from him. However, I am looking for a job again (since Oct.) & it’s nearly impossible to find a direct hire job.

      I HATE RECRUITERS & STAFFING AGENCIES!

    • #2728506

      Also Annoyed

      by awheeler

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I just got finished speaking with an IT recruiter. I have been out of work for a while, he wanted me to lie. He asked me to add some skills to my resume which I have but I don’t highlight and indicated he would send me a email so I would reply to the correct person. I have not received an email. I don’t feel he was honest, he got annoyed becuase I could not easily understand his heavy accent and then lied to me about his intentions. These are the people that are in charge of hiring for our companies. Makes me worried about the competitive advantage of American industry.

    • #2728488

      Nobody still calls recruiters do they?

      by oz_media

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      If you visit Monster it is almost 80% recruiters who are having clients pay them to hire specific personnel that are best suited to work at ABC company. They then just place a $500.00 ad in Monster and sort through resumes for what they think will work.

      I know several companies that USED to use recruiters and Monster but simply hire through word of mouth or recommendations now.

      The recruiting industry is OK for high end executive jobs, these guys don’t want to go job hunting as they are usually too bust even between jobs, thus a recruiter will filter out the BS opportunities.

      many IT staff rely on recruiters as if they think IT staff have a special uncommon knowledge. I think it is a matter of people seeing more in themselves than they have to offer.

      recruiters fill a demand, we probvide the demand, therefore WE fuel these BS recuiters who simply waste everyone’s time and money. It’s no different than focus groups, who everyone thought was the was to get demographic opinions. Focus groups are a complete waste of time as they are usually just a bunch of people looking for an easy $100.00 and a free lunch for saying what they think. The same person next week would offer an entirely different opinion as they are just Joe Dude with no understanding of product evaluation needs. I have spoken with recruiters AND these focus group guys who just snicker at how easy it is to gain money from corporatrions who think they are offering a service unavailable to most.

    • #2728467

      Indian Recruiters

      by paul.tiffany

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      After the fifth call from recruiters with Indian names, it suddenly dawned on me that the general incompetance of U.S. recruiters has now spread to India. One of them was appalled – and implied that I lied – when I told him I haven’t been paid as little as $95K in over 20 years. Another said he really needed someone with development experience. It seems he was looking specifically for “Global Systems Development”, a euphamism for offshore outsourcing. It seems analyst, designer, architect, project manager did not signify “development” to him.

      One of laughable best of the U.S. locals was Christy Lamm, who “kindly” called me to tell me my resume sucked. Obviously, this was her first job, but I politely asked what she was looking for. In response to her description, I read the first two sentences of my resume. She exclaimed, “Now, that’s what I’m talking about! Why didn’t you put that in your resume?!”

    • #2728462

      IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      by ssangodare

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      You’re not the only one. I share your opinion and I can not put it any better than the way you said it. Why do the head hunters and IT recruiters bother you whenthey have nothing to deliver.
      The other day, one of them called and left a voice mail message on my answering machine. He stated he was calling to find out about my job situation because there might be some job opportunities in my area (I guess he meant city and state).
      He obviously has seen and read my resume, and could not be painfully honest to say that he doesn’t have anything yet.

    • #2728444

      OH YEAH!!!!

      by gparsons611

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I have run into similiar situations. Initially, everything is real promising, they like you, want you, and are ready to send you to the task…just as soon as the client is ready. Ready to decide to use that recruiter or agency, that is! I’ve hooked & left dangling several times, even made other decisions based on their “promise” of certaintiy. I think that many times all these guys are looking for is a stack of resumes to flash at a prospective client just to land a deal.

    • #2728441

      Sad,

      by j.g.camp

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      but it’s even that way for Finance and Accounting. It’s the price of the lower taxes and off-shoring/sourcing.

      As many have pointed out, job descriptions are absurd. The manager you are interviewing with can’t do the job they posted. Much less take a pay cut for doing it ! There’s just no percentage in actually doing the work anymore and being staff. Getting a job is more like real estate, the money is in finding a buyer and seller and the commission that it creates. Only in this model, the labor product doesn’t appreciate in value.

    • #2728439

      Yes, they’re a useless and clueless bunch…

      by s.weiser

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Yes I have to agree, the IT recruiters seem to be a pretty useless and clueless bunch!

      My last two positions here in Adelaide, South Australia, I’ve found myself my following up on employment ads from the internet.

      I put my name down with 3 or 4 recruitment agencies, but had only one pretty lame offer of a short term contract.

      And in the same 6 month period, I successfully applied for and won 2 jobs without their help.

      Says it all really, doesn’t it!

    • #2728437

      Recruiters do not benefit IT, only executive positions

      by oz_media

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      IT gains no benefit from Recruiters. These guys were/are neede by larger coporations and Executives looking for work but NOT IT.

      executive positions are usually best filled ny recruiters as they will weed through the garbage jobs etc.

      This has gone to pot though with the use of online job searches, Monster etc. NOW, recruiters offer IT staffing service, which is absolutely useless as all they do is post to monster.

      If you have a recruiter seeking work for you and his clients wants apps, you are going to get looked at (you’re paying him/her of course)but then the recruiter just posts to Monster and all your exclusive talents become junk.

      It is an absolute and complete waste of time for IT staff to feel they need a recruiter to find them work that thousands of other are qualified for.

      These people were/are useful for very specialized positions or as mentioned before, exzecutive positions. Not just finding IT work, that’s a hopeless and somewhat arrogant thought if you think you need a special recruiter to find work that tens of thousands are qualified for.

      That’s like hiring a recruiter to find a warehousing job, what a waste of time and money.

    • #2728422

      I.T Staffing in Oz

      by angryant1969

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Head Hunters are usually paid a handsome sum of money on an applicants arrival, another payment is made after 3 mths, another after 6 mths , then 12 mths and finally on employment. The federal government allows approximately $7500 per person for their work place reablitiation within a 12mth period, mulitiply this by serveral hundred people per agency. Now you can see why people in Australia stay unemployed so long especially in the I.T Sector where there are so many areas of employment.

      • #2729880

        Agree

        by wombal87

        In reply to I.T Staffing in Oz

        I would have to agree with angryant1969, so would a lot of other peaople that i have come in contact with. If these agencies are getting a sum of monies, why not spend it on the person instead of tea and bikkies.

    • #2728420

      Can Someone recomend a Tech-Out tool Recruiters can use

      by sanjayk

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I have had the opportunity to be on both sides of the fence recently. When I was looking for a job, I experienced all the bad experiences motioned in this discussion but recently, my company was asked to recruit a Network Engineer and a PC Analyst by a customer. Although, this is not our expertise, we took the job and started the search. As I looking for candidates I realized why many of the recruiters might be so bad at getting back to applicants, they are swamped. For each job I received over 500 responses. I realized I needed to create tools and a methodology to go thought these resumes in order to help stack applicants fairly and find the best candidates. No way could I respond to all respondents that had applied for the job but I did try to respond to anyone that made an effort to answer my emails.

      During this process we received a lot of negative feedback on the way we were conducting Technical Reviews (Tech-outs). We initially asked the candidates to rank their skill level on the technologies our client needed them to support. Next we created a technical questionnaire that focused on these technologies and that tried to gain a though understanding of the applicant?s technical capabilities. For example, we asked questions on Windows 2000, Office 2000, TCP/IP? Most people who complained did not do well on the tech-out while others preformed well. Some of the complains we received were that no one else conducts tech outs so why do we, or that I do not remember details on how to setup something in Windows because I have not done it for a while, and the most often used criticism was that I do not perform well in tech-outs and I need to get hands-on to show you what I can accomplish. I explained to the applicants that we couldn?t simply take their word that they know something without testing and setting up a lab for each respondent is not practical. We asked each person, which complained about the tech-out, to tell us how we should be verifying technical skills but no one was able to give us a response that was practical. What we learned was that we need to create a better tech-out process but are not able to figure out how to do this. Can someone out there provide feedback on tech-outs that they have been exposed to and what they liked and disliked about them.

    • #2728419

      Slow Down and Think This Through

      by ashford50

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I have been unemployed for 10 months. I have had contacts with around 20 recruiters. I have learned a few things:

      1. Capitalism rules – when the economy gets bad, some people go into the job business, regardless of whether they know anything or can do anything to help you find a job.

      2. Resume opinions are a dime a dozen. You can rewrite your resume 100 times and everyone wants you to pay them to do it. (capitalism rules – part 2).

      3. I have had recruiters who were rude and insensitive to basic common decency. I have had recruiters who were nice and polite.

      4. I have heard that recruiters can get slammed on some positions and have no way of replying to everyone.

      5. I have found that most recruiters won’t reply to any contact attempts if they don’t need you for something.

      6. I haven’t seen an IT Job Fair that was done well, yet. I have heard of a few, but I think the glut of IT people makes Job Fairs impossible.

      7. Many (most?) companies use recruiters to do their dirty work for them. “Give me the best 5 people you have for this position.”

      8. Out of the 20 or so I have dealt with, probably 4 or 5 were ethical and nice. Not a good percentage, but don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.

      9. I just got a job this week through a recruiter; I start Wednesday.

    • #2728416

      How do they survive anyway??

      by rka

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I can definitely sympathize with your experiences as mine have been very similar. I found that building a network of peers has been the single best method of landing a good job instead of settling for some losing proposition that the recruiter may pull out of his/her backside. I had one recruiter that just about gave me a cavity from all the “sugar” she was feeding me in our face to face visit. After that it was nothing but “I should have something for you next week. Why don’t you call me back then?”. Funny, but next week she forgot to change her que card. I told her where she could find her next que card… 馃檪

      Bottom line is that I have dealt with 3 pimps (er’ recruiters) and have landed NO JOBS. My advice is don’t waste your time.

    • #2728413

      Recruiters use names and skills to win tenders

      by tom.richardson

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      When an recruitment agency calls me it’s nearly always because they have a client who wants to submit a tender and want to be able to say that they have Mr A, B and C with the skill sets D, E and F – even if they aren’t in employ. It’s fraudulent but then what are you gonna do? For the every 50 phone calls, only a handful aren’t wasting my time but how are you supposed to screen for it?

    • #2728410

      From a recruiter and career counselor

      by retrofitcounsel

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      You are right, it is bad if a recruiter doesn?t call you back after an interview to tell you your status. A good recruiter may, but not all ?good? recruiters do. Let?s define a ?good? recruiter. To me a good recruiter is someone who presents you with lots of open jobs that he/she is wiling to submit you for and a good recruiter is someone who also provides lots of feedback to the job seeker after corporation has reacted to the resume the recruiter sent. The problem is that the more time a recruiter spends coaching and giving feedback to the job seeker, the less time the recruiter has to spend finding jobs for you to fill. This is especially true in a bad economy ? like now.

      Sometimes the recruiter has nothing to tell you because the client corporation didn?t take the time to give the recruiter feedback on candidates the corporation is not interested in ? although the corporation would benefit from doing so if they intend to work with the recruiter in the future. Sometimes it is because the recruiter?s own management thinks calls to job seekers not selected are not a good investment of the recruiter?s time ? although I think that is also short sighted. The bottom line is that in a bad economy activities that do not make immediate money are considered a luxury at many kinds of companies.

      By the way, do you take notes at an interview so you can tell the recruiter what questions the client asked and how you answered them so the recruiter has a better idea of why you did or did not fit the client? If you are a possible future hire, this information would help the recruiter to sell you to the corporation in subsequent conversations. If you just tell the recruiter the interview ?went well,? you are not helping yourself long term.

      One last point, recruiters represent only about 10-15% of job placements over many years and a mixture of economies. If you are concentrating all of your time hoping a recruiter will find a job for you, you should also be using many other routes to find a job.

      In fact, newspaper ads, job websites like monster.com and recruiters added together account for only 20-30% of job placements. A full 70-80% of jobs are awarded when the jobs are not fully visible to the public. The 70-80% of the job market is called the ?hidden job market? and networking and referrals are keys to your success in it. If you are not yet expert in networking or working the hidden job market, read up on it or spend time with a career counselor. Most job seekers spend 80-90% of their job hunting effort answering public job ads ? when they will have the most competition and least likelihood of success.

      • #2728399

        Starting over at 42

        by leroy_gilmore2000

        In reply to From a recruiter and career counselor

        What hope does a guy like me have who hasn’t work in the field for 21 years and only went back to it as a last resort. I had a job as a corrections officer making 17.50hr and wasn’t even at the top of my pay scale yet, three injuries later, i lose the use of my dominate limb for life and i have to start over again.
        The only other thing i know is electronics but that was in the 80s in the military. Got out of it because they took a tech field(electronic Tech)and turned it into a field i could teach a monkey to do. No more find the bad card ,then the bad component and replace the component on the card, now it’s find the bad card and replace it and throw the bad one away.
        I understand as technology has increased parts have gotten cheaper, but still that ability to fix the card seperated the true techies from the wannabes,Fip in this field is a lost art.
        So here i am, in three moths i have to look for a job, and even with a degree i’m wondering what will be out there for me at my age and basically starting over in a new field.
        My degree focus was networking, but most of the jobs posted want a BA, not an AA, and they want 3 to 5 yrs exp to boot and want to pay 12.00 an hr for it.
        I don’t live in a real hot bed of technology to begin with and just bought a house that i would be hard pressed to sell,so it’s not like i can pack up and move for a job, also if i move for a decent job making 15or20 dollars an hour what will the cost of living be where i move to?

        Just thought i’d throw that out there

        • #2694014

          Sad…

          by l.barbetti

          In reply to Starting over at 42

          I symphatize with you and want to express my full solidarity for being in that awful situation. My advice would be to move out from that sector, there’s no point in pursuing objectives and aims in this (screwed up) field/market. I’m too into IT and seriously thinking about giving up, I’m really very much fed up about the salary figures we face in any branch of this market… We just can’t make a decent living with that ridiculous wages that I just consider as in insult to our capacity and, more importantly, to the time we spent and invested in training etc.

          Sad. Isn’t it?

    • #2728406

      You are right

      by rharke

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I found that some recruiters will send me a multipage for asking for my skills inventory even though I have already prepared one along with my resume. They will have you spend hours filling one out and then never respond when they receive it. I have been in IT for over 40 years and am angered at the way they want to waste your time. They will not return phone calls and emails.

    • #2728400

      …and they call themselves professionals!

      by mwalch111

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I have been out of the IT world for almost 2 years and my last job fair, an IT recruiter told me that in the US, there were 18-22 people lined up for every IT job. I have had very few follow up calls and with the average recruiter getting 50-120 resumes a day, it is hard for them to follow up with anyone unless they have exact job requirements. In fact, I went back to school to get training in networking which will not be outsourced. One of my classmates has been doing light networking for a few years now and stated in an article he read, ‘recruiters, on average, only respond to 4% of the total resumes received in a month’. The economy is not coming back strong. My advice: get out of software development now, that is going overseas. By the end of 2006, 25% of it will be over there. Take it from someone who has 17+ years in the software industry.

    • #2728398

      There is a school here in St Louis

      by zlitocook

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      That is advertising in the paper and on a lot of job boards, they say local large company is hiring for network administrators, computer repair techs, and any thing else they can think of. It was one of the schools your employer sent you to for new training it technical skills. But now they have joined the headhunter group. They have a list of companies that sent employees to train. And they?re advertising states certifications a must. I called and went to talk with one of their reps. When I arrived I was told to go to a meeting room, in the room was twenty to thirty people. And a booklet for each describing how great the school was and how all companies are only looking for people with certifications. It also had documents to sign that would enroll you in their school to receive training. And you would be able to pay for it in easy installments! I was mad by this time; I went out to talk to a (team leader) ha. I told him I had five certifications already, he looked at my resume and said I must have a network security cert. before they could send me out for interviews.I talked to others as they left and none were offered a job unless they took a course. Dose anyone know which school I am talking about?

    • #2728396

      Staffing Agencies/Recruiters..well..they suck!

      by lmcgrath1234

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Ray,

      Unfortunately you’re right. After reading your story, I too experienced similar fraustrations with agencies. I had an opportunity a couple of months ago to be a part of an XP deployment rollout at a large corporation thru an agency. My background had years of experience with system rollouts and project managing them. I was soo excited about the assignment, I even dropped by the agency to discuss the assignment. They knew I was a shoe-in for the assignment. The startup date is most likely going to be a couple of weeks from now, they said. We’re just looking for one more person for it. “Call us from time to time if you don’t hear them.” Well, the few times I got thru to them, I was told the same old story. “Just be patient,” they said. It’s going to happen. Call back next week if you don’t hear from us. “You mean next Monday?”, I said. Yes, he replied. I said “okay”. It was only Wednesday. I call next Monday afternoon. Voicemail. No one got back to me. Another week goes by with no call from them. Again I call. Voicemail again. I decided to call his assistant. To my surprise he informed me that that position was revamped and rolled up into another position. I asked “why wasn’t I informed?” No response other than I’m sorry. We’ll keep you in mind for any other opportunitie like this. That was four weeks ago. To make matters worse with hoping agencies would find me a job, I finally got one–thru networking! Agencies and internet job hunting for 6 months did NOTHING!

    • #2728393

      very few good, most very very bad

      by sue_in_oz

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      it’s great to be able to vent about recruiters isn’t it:)

      i’d have to agree with most of the replies. here in sydney, i have found most recruiters to be complete and utter slimy mongrels.

      however there are a few worth working with. some jobs recruiters advertise are real. i’ve gotten jobs & have successfully recruited contractor & permanent staff using recruitment agencies.

      my advice – pick a couple that cover your industry/sector & develop a relationship with them. tell them about yourself/business & industry. it’s worked for me.

      good luck all

      sue

    • #2728382

      There are some good ones

      by jwcummings

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      IT recruiters are not inherently bad. There are some that are pretty bad but there are also some good ones. I have received several of my contract jobs through agencies. Many clients will not deal directly with contractors but only through agencies. I have 2 contracts right now. One I do directly and the other is through an agency. I have 3 agencies that I work with regularly but I will listen to anybody if they are reasonable. It is not too difficult to detect the bad ones. Ask a lot of questions and develop a good relationship with the ones that you like. As I said, there are some good honest recruiters that will do a good job for you.

      The main thing is that one should consider the agency/recruiter to be another source of work. Refusing to use agencies because there are some bad ones is certainly going to limit ones ability to get contracts which is what it is all about.

    • #2728378

      already had position

      by tnturner.com

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Definently hanging, I had a job offer at MSFT from an IT recruiter, she said she would contact me when the hiring mngr had time to review resume-4 weeks went by before she contacted me, by that time I had already accepted a position and she had the nerve to yell at me for not contacting her even though I had just accepted the position just days before. She should have contacted me letting me know the status of the position but she said she was to busy? This is not the first time this type of thing has happened from a recruiter.

    • #2728375

      I am lucky to have a good one

      by too old for it

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I guess I am anyway. They actually represent me, don’t send my resume to the crap companies in town, avoid anal managers who just p&m about contractors (because no one will work for them full time).

      They ever quit, or I get really fed up with fat ass CEO’s, CFO’s, and all the rest of the lot who have their wing-tips ont he throat of the IT industry, you’ll find me at my concession cart, selling brats-an-kraut.

    • #2728351

      IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst

      by rh16981

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I was made redundant by CAP GEMINI Ernst & Young in May 2000. I was in the Group-Networks DEpt. Sine May 2000, i have been applying for jobs though IT Recruiters and as you said they are the worst. The are time and money wasters.My time and money to travel to their office and to be met by someone who does not have a clue about IT in most cases. They promise you evrything and deliver nothing. Some of them at my age ” forties” am too old, s it is a young market for graduates. I am not a graduate but i have 22 years of experience to back me up.The same goes for IT fairs.

    • #2728330

      IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      by jefflivesey

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Whilst I agree that a lot of agencies are awful there are a few who are good and honest and only post jobs when they have some. I have been contracting for many years in the UK, originally the Cobol/CICS market and now SAP and if I have a choice, which I do most of the time will use James Goodman who also have a consulting arm using mainly tried and trusted contract staff where an honest relationship has been built up. They will only use people with a good reference and are not interested in cv’s just to get the previous companies you have worked for (They know almost all of them anyway). If they dont do what you expect then do what I do and go somewhere else or get someone to recommend a company.

    • #2728321

      IT Recruiters Are Reverse Spammers

      by enydonaesenix

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Never forget that IT recruiters are salespeople selling you (the product) to employers (the customers). The same principle (e.g., lack of principle) applies to selling people as any other commodity. When the worst recruiters say they have a ‘great opportunity’ for which you are a ‘perfect fit’, they have nothing of the sort; they just want your resume to add to their data bank. If your data looks like a match with the requirements of a current customer (often an HR drone who has less technical knowledge and an even lousier attitude than the recruiter), they’ll pursue you. If it doesn’t – or someone pops up who looks better at the moment – they won’t waste a minute of their precious time on you. Recruiters play a numbers game – snag more resumes (hence ‘reverse spammers’), snag more customers, and sell sell sell, hoping they can fool a customer and a product (you) long enough to ink a contract.
      I was out of work for five months last year, and the trick is not to get too excited when they call you. The first call from a recruiter means no more than a telemarketing call, and pretending to have a ‘great opportunity’ is in their script. If they don’t call again and can’t seem to remember you when you call, forget them. I’ve been employed for seven months, and I’m still getting calls from these jerks when my data appears to match one of their customers’ needs. And it’s always the same speech about a ‘great opportunity’ and a ‘perfect fit’.

    • #2728319

      The Environment in General

      by tnwilliams53

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Most recruiters I have found are looking for specific skills to match a specific job. They do not understand the technology and thus use key words to match. This leads to mis-matches and pass overs on their behalf for the most part. They are the outsoucing of HR departments. Look for them to move to India for tech jobs. Some are just gathering resume banks. Overall they weed out the over and underqualified and over educated to that corporations can deal with what appears to be proper match.

    • #2728317

      Underqualified Recruiters

      by alexp023

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I have read a good deal of the replies and they all touch a piece of the problem with recruiters.

      My biggest gripe is probably dealing with a recruiter who hasn’t got a clue about the IT industry and even less of an idea about the job you and/or they are inquiring about.

      The best is when they ask for 2 or more years experience on a product version that has only been out for about 2 months. Their problem is they do NOT understand the requirements and they do NOT know the industry.

      You also have the situation where applicants claim to possess the required skills and experience, when they did no more than read an article or box label. Sad part is they get the job and ruin it for everyone else.

      Perhaps we should develop a journal of incompetent or just plain recuriters to stay away from, and help to put some of them out of business. Companies have recruiters they go to, perhaps we should also have representatives that look out for our interests and deal with the recruiters as a go between. You know, that may be a good idea !!!

      Thanks for listening.

      • #2730032

        Recruiter Database (The Good, The Bad and The Ugly)

        by sidelinequarterback

        In reply to Underqualified Recruiters

        Love your concept of a database; better yet a website. Suggestions anyone?

      • #2730011

        Okay but time consuming

        by oz_media

        In reply to Underqualified Recruiters

        In order to retain integrity and avoid major lawsuits, you would have to confirm each allegation yourself before you could post it.

        If someone is pissed for not being able to find work, it wouldn’t be uncommone for them to blame a recruiter, as if it’s his job to find you work and not just interviews.

        You will get heated and upset opinions that improperly chastize someone or someone’s company. This form of slander just needs to be read by a dismayed recruiter and problems start.

        Before we get into the whole constitutional rights argument, that isn’t the issue here, what is at stake is someone else’s livlihood and reputation that could be destroyed by a completely unemployable person who gets pissed off.

    • #2730009

      FEEDBACK?? Where Did That Go?

      by a2panther

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Well,
      These days, there’s no concept for recruiters to keep up their ‘Candidate’ feedbank. If they thought possibly, that if their one candidate didn’t fit, or just didn’t interview well at that company, that possibly they’d be able to hire them at another company on their client list.
      That ‘Feedback’ is important for their candidate as well as client.
      Seems that today, ‘Networking’ isn’t a good idea for a recruiter, to keep a continuing relationship going with the candidates they place in companies. People still don’t understand that one can move from one company to another, building up their career experiences. Its all, ‘Hey! Take The Money And Run!!! I got paid!! Whoooppiiii!!!!”
      I think its the recruiter’s loss, that they can’t build up their databanks and court quality candidates and clients and ensure both client and candidates a positive experience.

    • #2729808

      IT recruiting companies

      by udayk

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Yes, me too have the same problem. I get atleast 5 to 6 calls everyday from these people, sometimes asking me not to circulate my CV anymore for another 24 hours. All bullshit….

      If these companies employ me, about 40% of my salary is gone every month as their commission, in returns I get nothing. They don?t bother about my welfare and again they disappear until my contract about to be expiring.

    • #2729773

      How I would hope they work

      by seb.miller

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Firstly, a recruiter should know a niche skill market, rather than work a geographical area. This way the recruiter will get to know the market properly and be able to hold a non-technical conversation.
      Secondly, they should know the employing company well, the movers and shakes, company ethos and so on. In this way they will be able to give you a proper and accurate overview of the place where the vacancy is.
      Thirdly, they should be looking at your location against the location of the client – if its a stop-over job, then they should be able to argue the pro’s and con’s.
      Fourthly, do they know you? If not, then they should be finding out.
      You should know that in the UK the fee’s you agree with the recruiter is a one you’ll get – we do not take a cut from you. In reality, a bill goes to the client containing your rate, the agreed agency rate and any tax thats liable. The agency then runs your payroll and pays you a gross figure, the one you agreed in the first place.
      The agency should NEVER simply broadcast your CV without permission or put you forward for jobs without notifying you.
      In the UK, if you are not happy the I suggest you do three things. 1) Complain to the REC, 2) Ask that your CV be deleted or marked inactive or unavailable and 3) TELL YOUR MATES.
      I read a mail posted earlier about training and certification. Well, unless the recruiter has been in the industry they probably couldnt give a toss. So, I say again, spend time finding a decent agency or prefessional recruiter.

      Say happy!

      Seb Miller
      Defence & Secure Systems
      RITR Ltd
      01753 578 040

    • #2729730

      Short Term

      by mrpdejesus

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      As a matter of fact, just yesterday I had a call from a recruiter offering me a “Short Term” opportunity. That is a 2 1/2 hour assigment for a company with no IT staff. Good enough for 3 hours but not for Long Term assigment. I almost told him to @!#$% but I held my composure and told him no thanks.

    • #2729708

      IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      by voodoochile

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Yeah, brother! Everything you said 100%!
      And one other thing, at first I was ethical about recruiters, meaning if I/They contacted I would stick with them when another recruiter called about the same job. I took the higher ground because I thought it was right and wanted to avoid conflicts because I didn’t want to appear to be a whore. But when they call and have different rates for the same position, ya get to wondering where they are coming from. Several times I have get recruiters now that give me hourly rates that are very different. I had one that quoted me
      $13/hr, another $16/hr and another $22/hr!! !!

      ALL FOR THE SAME JOB!!!

      I’ve had another offer $14/hr and a coworker of hers called and offered me $16/hr, same job! They sit across from each other!! Talk about a lack of communication, huh?

      I know they sub and sub and sub but is $13/hr worth getting a seasoned, certified and experienced tech out of bed in the morning? NOT THIS ONE!

      I know we all gotta eat, but I ain’t eating
      cat chow! I’ll go back to working for the government first (and I left them after 24 years).
      OK, I’ve vented. I hope someone else comments, please!

    • #2694156

      Absolutely Spot ON – IT Recruiters suck …

      by ramnet9

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I have yet to win a decent job from ANY IT recruitment agency in Victoria. They are mostly staffed by under 25 year old dollies who ask things like ‘ whats an MCP or CNA .. is that important ? and then tell you they will get back to you once they find you are not their idea of boyfriend/marriage material. They never do of course and frankly the level of help , advice and capacity to add value to me is useless. I know they mainly work for employers but I am sure employers would like to think they could better outcomes with wider and more detailed searching and follow through efforts.

      I am not wasting my time with them anymore as they have proved useless to me.

    • #2694126

      Beware – Recruiting Scam

      by smudger_in_uk

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      One very bad experience I had I would like to share with you.

      I applied for a job via a web based advert, a senior position with a medium sized company. The agent called and explained he nearly didn’t call because my CV didn’t look right. After a short discussion he agreed he would include me in his short list to the client, but I would stand a better chance of getting the job if I could make my CV look more “professional”. He then said he knew of a CV writing company that has a good reputation that could help me. After a couple of minutes waiting for him to “find” the details, he said they offer a 24hr service, and if I could get him a good CV within 2 days I’d be well placed with the client.

      Even though I checked out the T&C’s and the web site, my need and the pressure to find a job outweighed my rational thinking so I contacted the CV writer and agreed the 24hr service at a cost of ?350 (on a credit card).

      I received the CV, it looked very different to my previous CV’s but it lacked any real detail of my skills. I forwarded the CV to the recruiter who said it was much better for this senior position and he would use this version.

      Part of the CV writer’s service is to provide 3 variants to the CV during the 12 months following, and to spend time discussing the original CV to make it into something I was happy with.

      As you’ve probably guessed by now, I have heard nothing back from the recruiter, I have chased several times but he doesn’t bother to respond.

      I arranged two phone calls with the CV writer who has missed both appointments. I eventually tracked him down by phone and discussed the variants I need to the CV and sent him further details.

      That was three weeks a go. I cannot get hold of him by phone (he employs an answering service) and he doesn’t respond to e.mails.

      I realise I’ve been taken hook, line and sinker by these two who are clearly colluding. ?350 to transpose my original CV onto a template and spend 15 mins (30 max) messing with the words is not my idea of value for money.

      I urge you all to be aware of this scam.

      • #2694107

        ?350 for a resume???

        by dc_guy

        In reply to Beware – Recruiting Scam

        I’ve lost track of the sterling/dollar exchange rate since the advent of the Euro, but I’m sure it’s still > 1:1. In the U.S., a person with a degree in English and a post-graduate degree in business is lucky to earn $30 per hour doing this type of work. They’re either under 25 in their first job after college, or retired and looking to supplement a pension.

        It takes no more than two hours to completely rewrite a resume (or curriculum vitae as you people call it whose schools still teach Latin instead of Chinese), proofread it, submit a draft to the client, and deliver the final document.

        That means that the resume writer is being billed out at more than six times her hourly rate. Even if the paltry auxiliary services you described were actually provided, this is way beyond the “factor of three” rule for maximum billing out of employees.

        RED FLAG!

        • #3309542

          Convert Your Skills Today!

          by bfilmfan

          In reply to ?350 for a resume???

          At that bill rate, we need to change careers DC. I am sure that writing resumes cannot be as complex as architectural documentation.

          So today’s special, B and D’s Resume Rewriter’s Special Resume Makeover for Recruiting Scammers! We use all the special keywords in resumes so you don’t have to read them! Guaranteed word scanning friendly! Hurry offer won’t last long!

          And for $19.95 an hour more, we will even teach ya to use email so ya can spam potential employers and candidates!

          ROTFL

      • #2693586

        names, please

        by john_wills

        In reply to Beware – Recruiting Scam

        of both the recruiter and the CV firm. Let the rest of us know who not to do business with. And maybe you should mention this to the police; they’ll probably do nothing, but sometimes they do take an interest in their work. And there may just be somethng you can do through civil court, although an unemployed person may be too busy for that, and collection might be impractical.

    • #2693860

      Bad Apples and Dollar $ign$

      by luckyleatherneck

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I was a dedicated IT Professional for 18 years as an employee and sneered at the contract programmers & consultants as “Mercenary Programmers”. Then, because of companies bought and sold, I became an In-House Consultant and finally joined the ranks of “Mercenary Programmers” for a very productive and experience broadening ten years working for IT Consulting firms. The Consulting Sales people we called “Pimps”. Because of helping lots of friends get hooked up with contracts or employment positions, the last consulting firm I contracted though (TEAM PIMP) hired me as their new Management Recruiter (Pimp de jour). Boy, was I ready to burn up the field with my IT knowledge, experience, people skills, and joy of fitting great people to great jobs. Well, folks … its a numbers game run by sales weenies who only know that 50% of contacts, give 50% of resumes, of which 50% come in, etc. The recruiters topping sales (they are selling YOU) are the ones who run the most bodies through the system and, although they learn the buzz words to fake out you and the client with gloss, they really don’t know (and REALLY DON’T CARE) how to spell C, C++, VB, VBA, SQL, SUN, IBM, or even COBOL. Their Management are high sales achievers … super pimps. Some recruiters, very few I’ve found, are genuinely interested in your long-term employment future and every person they take on is a valuable asset to be matched up with quality employers or long-term contracts. Most are cold focusing on the input-processing-output of IT Professionals with speed, minimal handling, and moving on like a duck being sucked through a jetliner’s turbofan. If you don’t have what these pimps need for their clients, you are termed “dirt” or “junk”. Nothing personal of course, it’s just the way they sort people out for maximum efficiency. This one associate of mine at TEAM PIMP, Mr. No-Brain-Computer-Klutz, would advocate to terminate every consultant when their contract ended, especially when their skill set made them “dirt”. Now, keep in mind that TEAM PIMP actually hired the consultants with good to great wages, great benefits, and a committment to their productivity, skills development, and marketability. While you’re laughing, let me tell you that Mr. No-Brain-Computer-Klutz was later moved up to Regional Management. I am no longer a recruiter but still receive calls and e-mails from some very good people.
      Ok, so some recuriters actually are good. But the best way is to network with your friends, associates, and professional organizations.
      Many IT jobs are actually and truely gone, due to corporate mergers, bankrupcies, outsourcing, and relocation to foreign shores. So, you find yourself in the flood of those looking for the very few jobs available. When you go jump at the “good opportunity” and it doesn’t jump back, it is very discouraging. But companies can’t say WHY they didn’t pick you or call you in for that important first interview because their lawyers have shown the personnel snobs where other companies got their pants sued off just for being honest in the employee candidate process. I’ve had people go through three levels of long interviews that went fantastic and he next interview just died. We never did find out why but someone in the last interview didn’t get excited about the candidate — and that was the end. Just gotta keep trying those good opportunities, give each one your best, and keep your head.
      Lloyd

    • #2695394

      Recruiters wasted my time!

      by nolonerangers

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I’ve tried to use I.T. recruiters, Monster, and Dice, to land jobs with the last company I worked for and with my current company. I finally got the first job via a friend referral. My current company has a huge military contract, and I’ve been trying to get on board for the past 9 months. I was unemployed and these recruiters where saying that I was underqualified most of the available I.T. jobs and they couldn’t place me. Very discouraging for an I.T. pro, with 10 years experience, to hear.

      Well, guess who hired me…the target company and they put me on the project I wanted to work on. The one I was trying so hard to have the “headhunters” place me with. I used the company’s website to apply directly, I got a phone interview two weeks later, a formal the next, and a job offer the next day. So, networking and applying directly with the company still works!

    • #2695357

      Mixed specs

      by rloski

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I find that the recruiters have trouble managing multiple requirements for a job. I interviewed yesterday for a contract position. They approached the consulting firm on Wed or Thurs for a SQL Server and ASP.Net position. Strong on stored procs and Asp.net. They need to finish a project by May 15 or June 1 (tough to do). They won’t start until April 5 at the earliest (it was March 26). I was the only one interviewed yesterday.

      I was called because I am available and I’m strong in SQL Server and also do a little Asp.Net.

      I learned in the interview that the Asp.Net needed to be very strong, and SQL Server ok.

      The recruiter is going to bust his buns trying to find a SQL Server guy who can also do Asp.Net. If he would ignore the SQL Server (Asp.Net guy who can do SQL Server) he has a chance.

      I think that given the hole this company has dug itself, I am still hopeful of getting this contract (at more than what I asked before). I am sure that the recruiter won’t find a strong SQL Server and strong ASP.net in the next week to two weeks that is available.

      I’m just glad I have a little work here and there.

      Russ

    • #2694936

      MY EXPERIENCE!

      by fluxit

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I have found that it is not so much the lack of professionalism in these agencies, the fact that many employers do not know how to interview, or even worst many employers are apathetic about the hiring process. While these issues are at epidemic portions – many people simply do not know how to look for a job.

      For example, the first recourse many people have is to rush to the newspaper or internet resume pools. News flash, employers hawk these places to see if thier employees are looking. They also use these places to survey jobs salaries and who has what qualifications. So you’ll waste time submitting resumes and needlessly get your hopes up.

      First, you must realize how the game is played. Here are some ground rules:

      1. The employer already knows the exact amount he is willing to pay. So there is no negotiation. You just find a comfortable fit.
      2. If you have the qualifications you will be overqualified and the employer cannot pay you what you are worth.
      3. If you do not have the complete qualifications the employer cannot pay you top dollar.
      4. The employer is more scared than you but he makes up for this inferior complex by trying to dominate you in the interview.
      5. Its not just the employer interviewing you. You must interview the employer.
      6. You will never get a ROI on educational cost. So frugally apply your education.

      Second, You should build your own database of companies. Include names and FAX numbers. This should be an ongoing project. Resources are abound. Start with calling cards. Then use state governments. Most state business licensing agencies provide online databases of businesses and owner names for FREE.

      Third, when you begin your search research and shoot out 10 prospects a week. Followup the next week and schedule interviews beginning the third week. It’ll take about 6 weeks into this cycle before you start getting steady activity.

      Fourth, your correspondence should be in the form of a resu-letter then sent to a decision maker not human resources. Avoid human resources at all cost. DO NOT send a resume and cover letter. There is a difference. You must differentiate yourself from others.

      Fifth, walk into the interview when you land one with a packet of your current resume, letters of recommendations, and any examples of your work that you can use as talk points. You should steer the interview asking about company and professional challenge. Comment regularly on how you benefit the prospective company.

      Sixth, kept it short and to the point.

      Remember that your priorities are always:
      1. God
      2. Yourself so you may provide and care for your family
      3. Your family
      4. Job
      5. Country

      There is more but I hope I hit the salient points.

      • #3305209

        PS

        by fluxit

        In reply to MY EXPERIENCE!

        I despise placement agencies.

    • #2694847

      IT Recruiters $#)&@#$

      by the unknown it guy

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I found every IT recruiter that I had contact with over the 10 months that I was unemployed to be the most dishonest, and misleading group of people that I delt with in the previous 14 years of employment. There is no reason that they could not be up front about the possibilities available of someone with a particular skillset. There is no reason to continually lie about the status of a job offer. One person comes to mind espically. First name starts with M last name starts with H works for a company So__ti. Stay away from that place it is a waste of time and energy.

      • #2692128

        Time has gone by and they still suck….

        by raycaldwell73

        In reply to IT Recruiters $#)&@#$

        Wow….I’m amazed at how many people responded to this. And yes, my search still continues and I have been plauge by more agencies with the same song and dance. One agency (I forgot the comapny he represents, I know the guys name is Vivek Strieman) called me up for a position and keeps tell me I’m a perfect fit (heard this a million times) and he “supposedly” was trying to get me into an interview with his “account” manager…now why do I have to see an account manager is beyond me…..but I took it with a grain of salt and said fine. Now the interview was suppose to be within 2 days……never heard from him, so I said I won’t get mad and I decided to call the guy and find what is the deal here…..he sells me the crap about how the manager is busy and he is trying to get a hold of him to meet me…..and I said “Look….don’t waste my time….is the manager serious or not about see me, or does this job even exist, or are your bull****ing me”….I know that was not professional to say, but come on, I’m a grown person…just level with me…that all I ask. If the job was filled or whatever the case, JUST TELL ME!!! Stop with the excuses. So I told him, you call me when your folks get their act together. Then other one calls me and said my expereince is a good fit for the LAN position (here we go again) I talked to the lady (because they tell you to call them ASAP…what a joke!) and then she says let me pull up your resume…..ummmmkay….so then she proceeds to ask me question about Perl and C++ and I tell her…I thought you looked at my resume and it clearly states that I have no programming experience except for VB…and she says “Ohhh….well this jobh requires……blah..blah..blah”. I’m sorry but I just exploded on her for being an incompetent idiot and a poor excuse of a recuriter……I still get called from “Hi…I’m Joe Blow from so-and-so Staffing and I have a great opportuity…”…you know the line…..I just ignore them at this point. I wish the days of IT job fairs will come back.

    • #2694819

      Time and place for everyone

      by tina_k_rock

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      As a recruiter, I have to say I apologize that you haven’t been treated properly. As more and more people have been looking for IT jobs in the past three years, we have had even more people to get in contact with, return messages to, etc. If only fully qualified individuals applied to jobs, perhaps everyone could get calls back. My average day if full of sifting through resumes of people who are completely NOT qualified for the positions that are available but might be a great fit for another job. Simply talking that through with someone can take ten minutes, multiply that by the 200 resumes I get on a weekly basis (bare minimum), that equates to 33 hours/wk.

      While we would love to place everyone, we are not charity organizations. I never hold myself out to be the sole resource someone should utilize; I’m simply an extra set of eyes, ears, and a mouth used to drum up an opportunity.

      I hope you all have better experiences in the future and keep in mind that being sweet will get you further than being sour!

    • #2690247

      No IT Recruiters for me

      by jolder

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      A number of years ago, both a coworker and I submitted our resumes to an IT recruiter. The position was for an Oracle Financials DBA with databases on UNIX. My coworker didn’t have any UNIX experience, any Oracle DBA experience, or any Oracle Financials experience. I had 12+ years in UNIX & Oracle, and 2 in Financials. My coworker got the job. Why? The recruiter made more money placing him than me. The coworker was soon fired from the position as his lack of credentials became apparent. However, the recruiter was not affected. Fortunately, I got a better position. But I’ll never use them again. I am in IT Management, and will not look at the resumes submitted by recruiters. If I have an opening, I will take the time to hire the right person – and that is the person that brings the right energy, a positive attitude, the drive, and a reasonable proportion of the skills.

    • #2705209

      Experienced IT Guy vs Recruiter/HR

      by sleepless in wa

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I’m discovering that 99% of these folks are looking for one keyword to hinge their entire decision upon. It doesn’t matter if you have 20+ years of skills that real IT folks have developed. You would think that learning a new language/skill would be the easy part (new languages do have better tools don’t they?). How can experienced persons get in the door if the internet/headhunter/HR folks are only looking for an acronym? Do we have to resort to lying, or can we somehow ‘train’ these folks that IT professionals require 100’s of skills not just a specific language or software tool?

      • #2705175

        Exactly

        by obiwaynekenobi

        In reply to Experienced IT Guy vs Recruiter/HR

        And if you think it’s bad for experienced people, imagine how entry-level people get shafted. Even for helpdesk jobs and such the stupid HR people look for buzzwords (you have no idea how many entry-level and helpdesk jobs I look at that want an MCSE) and won’t even consider an applicant who doesn’t have it, even though it’s far too advanced for the position itself!

    • #2704559

      Use Me Use You

      by pglosser

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Use the recruiters for what they are worth. It can’t kill you to send them a resume and make a phone call or two; if they blow you off, so what? So do most of the people you call or send resumes to, except on the basis of networking. If they get you an interview, it’s then between you and the hiring manager. And you have the option of blowing THEM off when they call you begging for your services when you are working.

      The fact is that nobody in the real world ever does exactly what he says he’ll do, or tells the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. The ethical level of recruiters is pretty much average for the marketplace: some are much better than others.

      I would think twice about the recruiters that insist on interviewing you before sending you on an employer interview. This can be a waste of precious time, especially if you are job-searching while employed.

    • #2722508

      You are not kidding.

      by julie.davis

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I have been dealing with those yahoos for the last 3 months and it is the most non-professional disaster I have ever had the misfortune to deal with. The no call back, stringing you along Technical placement agencies are driving me nuts. As a Professional I expect the courtesy of a reply and the respect of follow through.But it is like the no calls no shows you expect from teenagers at a fast food restaraunt. It is irresponsible to say the least. I do not feel that adult expectations of professionalism from adults is unreasonable.

      Julie In Colorado

    • #3306562

      I agree 100%

      by obiwaynekenobi

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I recently had a bad experience with recruiters.. about a year ago I applied for a job via one of them, and whenever I would call the recruiter to find out what happened she would say some garbage like “I’m waiting to hear from [hiring manager].” so I would wait a week or so and call again. And she would tell me the same thing and say that she didn’t want to keep on calling the person. Said she would let me know definatly what was up in another week, and that was the last I heard of her or her company.

      Then, just the other week I met with another one.. I won’t name names but the firm is called IT Resources. Guy was trying to get me a tech support job with BrightHouse Networks (cable/internet provider, if you don’t know) and I was excited because I have a friend who works for them and they paid for his MCSE. So I follow up with him and, lo and behold he tell me “Unfortunatly, the position may be on hold.” Haven’t heard anything from him since.

      IMO these people are vultures who do nothing but make false promises to already downtrodden IT people. They guarentee that you’ll get such and such “great” position and then never follow up with you on the matter, or like with me give you some BS about not being able to get in touch. It’s completely ridiculous, and I for one will never go through a recruiter now. It’s not worth the hassle.

      Just my opinion.

    • #3307381

      Agreed

      by briandesu

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      The problem with staffing agencies is that they are sales reps. They want your resume to have nothing but buzzwords for technologies they do not understand.

      Entertainment

      Recruiter: “Do you know WINS, DNS, HTTP, DHCP?”
      Me: Yes
      Recruiter: “So, you know those programming languages?”
      Me: “Uh, they are network protocols?”
      Recruiter: “So, do you know TCP/IP?”

      I think the point is made by now.

      I find it amazing that companies rely on these twits to determine whether we are qualified for a job, yet they have no understanding of how we fit the equation. ARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!

    • #3308664

      IT Recruiters = Teasers

      by tekkydave

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I hate these guys. They call you and say, “I got your resume from a year ago, I Got a great job for you, Great salary, and you are totally qualified.”

      Then, you get all pumped up, you go home, tell the girlfriend, “I got a great call today, I think this could be a good opportunity.”

      Then you never hear from them again, and if you call the recruiter back, you just get their voicemail.

      I think there is a secret society of fake recruiters whose sole purpose is to get out hopes up, and then knock us down. Theyre goal is to keep us downtrodden.

      Damn the man.

      • #3294946

        All Recruiters/Agencies Stink

        by beahwolf

        In reply to IT Recruiters = Teasers

        …that has been my experience. I’ve worked with accountant recruiters, legal personnel recruiters, and IT recruiters. All of them do the same thing. They take your credentials, make outrageous promises, then rarely, if ever, contact you again. I’ve resorted to mining for information from them when I initiate contact. I haven’t worked for an agency or recruiter for nearly a decade, but I have managed to find contract work based, in part, on the information that I glean from them.

    • #3291585

      Hit and Miss

      by shawnbishop

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I have had the same experience with agencies, i think they use a hit and miss approach, they assemble as many CV as they can and then submitt all of them to the company looking to employ, the CV that arent succesful are then cast aside and they dont call you back to inform you that your application was unsuccesful.
      Where i come from (South Africa) it is even worse due to Affirmative Action and Employment Equity, the companies need to fill a position with unqualified people, and train them to their standards due to the fact they were previuosly disadvantaged.It is quite discouraging.

    • #3291253

      recruiters

      by mauryyoung

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I have dealt with recruiters since 1980. They are a sorry lot. Unfortunately, the industry has AGAIN turned away from straight hiring and going throught these twits. Anything to save the company from paying benefits, workman’s comp, additional accounting services or unemployment. I have seen an incredible escalation in illegal activities by these not to bright people. If you get tough with them about the position and in general, try to find out if its worth your time to give them a moment, they will immediately tell you – you have a bad attitude. (I believe they are telemarketers at best)

      In May I will be leaving the IT industry forever. Took me a year to figure out what I could do to make more than $10/hr after 25 years of experience and I have.

      There appears to be no way around recruiters unless you market yourself. Its very tough and you will have to learn to be savy at lightspeed.

      I believe you should slap every recruiter who calls. Too bad its not possible without being charged with assault.

    • #3304930

      Pimps

      by clindell

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I haven’t read the whole thread but all I can say this is legalized prostitution and us the “IT” workers are the prostitutes and the IT Staffing agencies are just pimping us! If they were forced to close their doors more of us would get better paying and longer-term jobs.

    • #3314732

      slimy bunch indeed

      by khalidjamali

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      i had an interview lined by an agency. An hour before the interview they tell me its cancelled after i have taken half the day off and spent the weekend preparing for it. bastards !!

      • #3290575

        Tough Crowd

        by ccypress

        In reply to slimy bunch indeed

        You people are a bit rough. You think recruiters are bad, you should see how many people I have helped get a positions only for them to accept another offer 2 days later…or show up to an interview in jeans…you don’t know the half. Trust me, it’s a two way street

    • #3304144

      Recruiters are the worst?

      by dermon1

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Sounds to me like you aren’t very good at what you do. I’ve used a recruiter for almost every role I landed, and they always call me back.

      • #3304215

        Their Pimps

        by clindell

        In reply to Recruiters are the worst?

        I said it before & I’ll say it again, their pimps. YOU have used them because you have trouble selling yourself or finding companies to talk to. If there were No recruiters we would take out the middle-men and there would be more wages available to the newly hired worker since the recruiter isn’t getting a piece of the action.

    • #3344448

      The quality of the company you are working with

      by net_prof

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I have now been laid off since August after being with my company for the last 2 years. I was laid off for 6 months during that time.

      As a result of my job search, I have determined that there are two different types agencies/recruiters. There are the truly professional organizations and there are those that are just in the business of placing bodies – I call them body shops. And I tend to shy away from working with body shops because of how they do business and how they make me feel. These are the companies that want someone to fill a position now, but then never respond back and act as if you are wasting their time if you solicite a response to a perfect position posting.

      But another part of it has to be the candidate themselves. You have to understand that right now is an employers market. The recruiters are literally getting flooded with hundreds if not thousands of resumes for each position listed. A lot of candidates will submit themselves for positions that they really are not suited or qualified, with the hopes of getting that next job. Another factor involved is your amount of patience involved with contacting these companies – when you submit your resume are you constantly hounding the company for an update or do you wait and/or follow up no more than twice a week?? Positions with larger companies usually take a period of time and especially now with the holidays just getting over, most companies are just now getting back into their hiring cycles. If the position is a fast moving opportunity and you are truly qualified and a candidate, the company will contact you.

      I am in the running for several jobs with several different agencies, one local and the others located regionally. I have also taken steps to build a consulting department with my former boss’s business that specializes in EDI, EC, UCCnet and RFID services and systems, so that I can build my own business without having to rely on someone else to want me or hire me.

      Another area your resume needs to indicate is what have you been doing while you have been unemployed?? Although I have not added it just yet to my resume, I have stayed busy doing some volunteer work with Excel and Access development for my work and a friend. Shortly I will add this to my resume to reduce the appearance of having been out of work for too many months. If you don’t have work to show, some employers and agencies wonder if you have just been sitting around and waiting for your next dream job. Any work or continuing education needs to be clearly represented and added to your resume.

      A lot of IT people are qualified in more than one skill. You also need to have multiple resumes available, at least two, to highlight your skills separately in these areas. While I like EDI would like to stay with an EDI job, I also have a great deal of experience with Visual Basic and MS Access. I have prepared a second resume which focuses on these skills separately. This improves my chances of getting hits in more than one area.

    • #3089949

      WHY DO WE NEED THEM?

      by navgr34

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      I SAW A JOB POSTED TWICE, TWO DIFFERENT RECRUITERS, SO I DECIDED TO GO FOR ONE OF THEM AND THOSE GUYS WERE NICE AND THEY THOUGHT I QUALIFIED, SO THEY SEND MY RESUME.. TO THE OTHER RECRUITER!!!!!
      I GUESS COMPANIES THAT HIRE RECRUITERS ARE IDIOTS, THEY INCREASE THE PRICE !.. A RECRUITER TOLD ME ONCE THAT THEY CHARGE 20% OF MY SALARY.. SO, IF THERE ARE 2 RECRUITERS INVOLVED..DO THE MATH!

    • #3231043

      I have had it with these staff agencies

      by solara2003

      In reply to IT Staffing agencies and recruiters are the worst!

      Hi Ray,

      I here ya buddy, I am having the same problem. These staff
      agencies promise you the world. I recently had a interview with a
      staff agency, first of all she has no background in IT at all. She told
      me she would do everything her power to get me hired. But at the
      end, nothing. Even if you wanna get hired directly, your resume
      will be sent to a recruiter, it really sucks big time.

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