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It's not just the bankers

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by nicknielsen

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Sentence was passed today on the former general counsel and secretary of Monster Worldwide. He had pleaded guilty to securities fraud and conspiracy to commit securities fraud, admitting that he illegally backdated millions of dollars in employee stock option grants. He participated in a scheme to backdate stock options from 1996 (when Monster went public) through 2003.

http://www.thestate.com/2010/03/02/1183050/internet-job-site-execs-cooperation.html

The story points out: [i]At least 135 U.S. companies have disclosed internal inquiries or government investigations, and at least 39 executives and board directors at 19 companies have been fired or have resigned.[/i]

Given the extent of the problem, can somebody please provide a logical explanation of how reducing regulation that would prevent this type of abuse is a good thing?

34 replies

by gsg

Off topic, but, I had a sound byte of said crickets at one time. We were working with a vendor on a project, and it seemed like no one could ever answer our questions. It got so bad on our conference calls that everytime they paused in an uncomfortable silence, I played my chirping cricket soundbytes, which cracked up my co-workers who were silently laughing during the calls.

The payday came (so to speak) when the vendor was supposed to come on site, and one of them said that she didn't want to come because we were infested with crickets and she was afraid of bugs.

We also kept a running tally of how many times the Project Manager on their side said Okey Doke. I think in one particular one hour call we logged over 20 of them.

by notsochiguy

I used to work for a large consulting firm, and they had their main tech hub down off of Stemmons in Dallas. Huge complex that was modeled after some crystal palace in Europe.

Anyhoo, I had to go down there for some meeting, and it was in the middle of a heat wave (this happened in 1998, I want to say). I went inside, and the first thing I noticed was that is was nice and cool. The second thing I noticed was that the 'pattern on the walls' seemed to have an odd visual effect to them, so I decided to get closer to take a look.

It was NOT an odd visual effect. The walls were covered floor--to--ceiling with crickets.

I'm not creeped out by insects in general, but I have to admit that it did weird me out a bit. Had a 'Kingdom of the Spiders' (one of The Shat's finer acting moments) vibe to it.

:)

by dadspad

the corporate american/world way.

There is a ethical crisis in the world, with the U.S. leading the way. Where was his ethics when he was cheating before he saw jail time. Tears, indeed!

Sad.

by notsochiguy

...there isn't an ethical crisis in the corporate world. Similarly, there isn't a mastodon or saber-tooth tiger crisis in the wild.

They're all extinct.

by jck

Anyone at the top of the company who would take advantage of their position to commit fraud and devalue others holdings for personal gain...is morally corrupt.

But, we have one other problem as I said elsewhere.

You can get 1-4 years in prison for carrying just a baggie with a few joints in it for your own consumption.

People who ripped off $10Ms and $100Ms of stockholder investments are doing 3-6 years, in the process ruining 1,000s of peoples' lives.

What's not right here? I underpaid $350 in state taxes once and had to pay back over $900.

Madoff and others rip off people and are only made to make restitution in the neighborhood of 15-50%?

The normal guy gets screwed again.

by santeewelding

I note your use of indiscriminate second person in relation to "a few joints".

You testify, therefore, about others. Would your meaning have been any less if you had used first person?

Or, would that have placed you too uncomfortably close to moral crisis?

by jck

Because I have never carried an illegal narcotic, hence I have not been uncomfortably close.

I have, however, seen the effects of the law on people I have known in the past who were "in possession" knowingly and unknowingly (in the state I grew up in, if your friend had it on them in your car you were legally "transporting" and "an accessory to possession"...whether you knew they had it or not).

So yes, I used second person because I do not have experience in having gone through it myself.

However, I have known people who did, talked with them, and seen it happen.

So, it was not indiscriminate. It was directly applicable to personal experiences in observing what happened to others.

There's a reason I approached it that way, unlike your assumptions about my statement.

So, I note your uninformed and assuming diatribe of my statement, and respond with a hearty guffaw. :)

by notsochiguy

...I think these executives and firms have done much more damage to the citizens of this country than anything a whackadoodle terrorist could have hoped to accomplish.

Of course, I also think street gangs have caused more damage to the country than has Al-Qaeda and are de facto domestic terrorist cells; so take my opinion with a grain of salt (if not the whole bottle)!

;)

by jck

People like Jim Bakker and Robert Tilton and Benny Hinn have taken advantage of more elderly people and taking $100Ms in "love offerings" and bought themselves palatial estates, $20k watches, $10k suits, and $200k cars.

They are just as guilty as the banks, but they get a pass from some because they hide behind a religious tapestry.

Taking advantage of the ignorant is no good, whether you are dealing in finance or "the Lord's work".

This country needs to set things right, and letting each money-grubbing person, industry, or sector determine their own morality and decency isn't going to get things together.

The state of our nation is proof of that now.

by jck

Salt (sodium chloride version) was a flavor enhancer.

Maybe we should say instead:

"Take it with a grain of natron"? :^0

by notsochiguy

De-icer.

Maybe we need to inject some into the icy cold hearts of some of these executive b@stiges???

;)

by jck

Maybe Hitler will have some words of advice on how to handle it. :^0

Ah...God. I need to go home and never come back to work.

I am fixing issues with this code that have been in it for 3-4 years (2-3 years before my arrival here), and no one ever complained before and got them resolved.

Plus the fact that my phone makes noise and people speak up about it, but loudmouth co-workers stand out in the common area making noise for 20-30 minutes talking about American Idol or Marie Osmond's son or something non-work related and it gets no notice.

I need a work-from-home job where I can make 6 figures and work my own hours.

Guess I should be a pimp. :^0

by tonythetiger

It's only guaranteed that when it happens, it's going to be more costly.

It's getting to the point that we're spending more to prevent something (most of the time unsuccessfully) than what it would cost to just let it happen and pay for the cleanup. It's unsustainable, and ultimately self-defeating.

by nicknielsen

I dealt with the results with the federal supply system. Every time somebody ripped the government off, Congress would add more rules to the FAR (Federal Acquisition Regulations). Eventually, they got so unwieldy, the military had to pay $900 for hammers, $9,000 for coffemakers, and $20,000 for bolts just to comply.

I like the idea of a graded scale for white-collar crime at the executive level: a month in prison for every thousand dollars you rip off, with no time for good behavior. The greedy sonsabitches start seeing the possibility of 30 years or more behind bars for less than a million bucks, maybe they'll think twice. And those that don't will more than deserve it.

etu

by jck

...is that the politicians in the pocket of the SIGs write in loopholes or vague language that allows entities to get away with things on a technicality.

If they would write the regulations to say what they mean and mean what they say, there would be a LOT less issues with things like bank failures, companies going bankrupt but paying execs huge bonuses, etc.

So it's not the money being spent that's wrong.

It's the people we pay the money to who are screwing it up.

And, they have for decades. So, it's time for America to take my cue: vote in your local farmer, housewife, barber, road crew person, etc., and let them go to DC or your state capital and write laws that help America and not just business or special interests.

It's time for the regular American to take back our country.

by gsg

Nope, they were out of Chicago.

I have been known to go nuts at the sounds of crickets. I can't stand that chirping noise when I'm trying to sleep. My most memorable moment came at about 3am when I was in my garage in my Pajamas, with a can of Raid, squirting crickets and yelling, "Die, cricket, Die!"

by notsochiguy

The sound cicadas make drives me up a wall. Fortunately, we have 14 more years until we have to worry about them again!

by jck

As long as I was guaranteed 1 year of work.

2650 x 2080 = retirement after 1 year.

Astonishing. Anyone who makes that much money and works more than 10 years is just focused on wealth.

I could work 2 years on that wage, retire, have catastrophic medical costs, and STILL afford to live comfortably.

Ugh. Now I think about my check and wonder what the heck I did to deserve what I get.

by jck

And, we've made one of two mistakes:

Either letting them get by with stupid stuff

or

Demanding stupid selfish things

Either way, we should just send blue collar people up there to run the country.

I don't think tax write-offs for things like building on a 2000 square foot sunroom on your 8000 square foot home as a "home improvement" would happen as much as they do now.

by jck

Get hired on the board of directors of most major corporations, and you get paid $50,000+ to be flown (corp expense) to their HQ, spend 1-3 days there per quarter having meetings from about 10-11:30 and 3-5. Then playing golf on the corp dime, eating on the corp dime, hotelling on the corp dime.

And all you do is approve the annual budget, vote for corp officers, etc.

I'd take 50k a year for working about 30 hours a year.

Must be rough using that Harvard education to sit on your keister and have your buddies elect you to their boards and vice versa.

Now ya know why so many corporations went down the crapper.

by nicknielsen

I could make a living doing that for four or more companies, and I couldn't do much worse than some of the people already doing it.

Of course, I don't know the right people and don't have the proper "screw the little people, I deserve this" attitude.

by av .

Lack of regulation got us where we are today. That, and a lack of morals and integrity. Can't regulate that.

AV

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