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@JJ: Show me your proof.

By JJFitz ·
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oooh Vulpine (shrug)

by JJFitz In reply to @JJ: Show me your proof.

I didn't mean that Apple was forcing you to purchase a replacement. I meant that Apple abandons new OS support (upgrades) for older devices as a way to get you to buy a new device. If you want to stay current you are forced to replace about every two years.
For example, according to Apple's website http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/features.html
your second gen iPhone is not compatible with iOS 5 nor is my second gen iTouch.
Heck, I couldn't even get iOS 4 to install on my 2nd gen iTouch. After 8 hours of watching the install make sloooooow progress, the installation crashed. Fortunately, it reverted back to iOS 3 an hour later. But without iOS 4 it won't let me install new apps or upgrade the ones I already have. It is now frozen in time. I have learned my lesson. That's the last time I buy an Apple mp3 player.
On the other hand, upgrading my original Droid to a new OS - over the air I might add, was a breeze. It took 5 minutes.
And rooting it to configure it to my needs and keep the functionality relevant has been easy too.
By the way, getting it back to original OS takes 5 minutes. Thus, I am not feeling forced to purchase a replacement phone.

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You do make a couple valid points, but I think you're selling...

by Vulpinemac In reply to @JJ: Show me your proof.

... your iPod Touch short. I'll grant that my 3G iPhone is comparatively old, but the average lifespan of a cell phone before smart phones came out was only two years and even then you sometimes had to replace them sooner due to hardware failure. At almost 4 years old, my 3G still runs iOS 4 just fine and I honestly can't say a 3-4 year-old Android phone can make that same kind of claim.

What I'm seeing from the Android market (as compared to the Android Market) is that the phones on average are selling for half price or less within months of release and many of these aren't surviving that full 2 year contract life. While I will acknowledge that there are some higher-quality models out there, they aren't the standard, but the exception to the rule. I can go down to my local Walmart* and find as many as 12 different Android phones selling for $100 or less vs a single version of the iPhone 3G(s) at $49 and iPhone 4s selling for $200 or more. This clearly demonstrates to me that the OEMs for Android are saturating the market with comparatively junk hardware which is why Android's customer satisfaction ratings are so low. Add to this the demonstrated fact that a non-techie is highly unlikely to get any kind of timely OS updates for this junk hardware and you really see a concerted effort to force users to buy new hardware before end-of-life (contract) which subsequently forces them to either buy another of the same type-brand to renew the contract or pay high ETFs to escape that junk.

Again, I agree there are better Android phones out there, but I personally believe that 50% of the current Android market is little better than junk.

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no doubt there are junk Androids out there

by JJFitz In reply to @JJ: Show me your proof.

I don't buy them or recommend them to my friends.
My personal experience with Apple products has been disappointing. I returned 2 second generation iPods because the hard drive crashed, my son's nano died in less than a year and my iTouch freezes while playing certain songs and the OS is frozen in time.
Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

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I won't argue personal anecdotes because everybody's experiences differ.

by Vulpinemac In reply to no doubt there are junk A ...

I could point out that my first-gen iPod lasted 5 years in the dash of my Camaro through hot summers and northeastern-cold winters. I could point out that my second-gen and later iPods (including a video classic and at least two models of Nano) still operate reliably. I could point out that I just gave away a first-gen iPod Touch to my step-mother-in-law and she absolutely loves it. I could point out that my second-gen iPhone 3G can run iOS 4 smoothly. All any of that says is that my experiences are different from yours; that doesn't mean that either your or my experiences are the norm for everybody.

However, I don't only take care of my own devices. I know quite a few people with Apple devices and the great majority of them have had no issues with any of them. I very rarely hear of instances like yours and usually when I do it's due to wear and tear from an extremely active lifestyle. I'm sorry, but I don't know of any device that can survive repeated falls off a bicycle (even if it remained in the user's pocket) or otherwise saw heavy or extreme environments. Yes, the hard drive on that first-gen iPod failed--but only after living for 5 years in that car--never removed except to update the playlists.

I'm not saying you've been rough on your devices, just saying that the differences in lifespan may be environmental. For example, I can't wear or carry a watch, mechanical or electronic, because they simply die within weeks; the electrolytes or something in my skin and perspiration causes them to quit working. Even waterproof models are susceptible. That said, most people don't have any issues whatsoever with wearing watches just as it seems most people don't have any issues using an iPod, etc. Assuming the issue is the sole fault of the manufacturer is just looking for an excuse without evidence to back it up.

You might note that I've never said Android is all bad--I do say that in some cases the hardware falls short (usually in the cheaper phone) while the OS seems unfinished according to every review I've read about Android tablets. Until these different issues are ironed out, Android will effectively be the Windows of the mobile environment--with all the benefits and issues of same.

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whoa. back that truck up mister

by JJFitz In reply to I won't argue personal an ...

Have you ever heard of the pot calling the kettle black?
Didn't you post an anecdote about a person who returned 6 Android phones?
That is called hearsay in court.
I gave direct personal testimony about my experience with several failed Apple devices yet they don't count?
If you looked at any one of these failed units that have been added to Mount Crapmore, you would think they were brand new. The 2nd and 3rd iPods were replacements so they may have been defective refurbishes but what does that say about Quality Control at Apple?

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Yes I did say that... But I wasn't necessarily blaming Android...

by Vulpinemac In reply to whoa. back that truck up ...

... but rather the quality of the hardware Android was running on for him. I still stick with the "You pay for what you get" and when you have smart phones supposedly selling for $50 or less (plus contract) you really have to wonder about the quality. I'll grant that there are exceptions to the rule--such as the fact that the iPhone 3G(s) sells for $49.99 at Walmart* (plus contract), but the iPhone's general quality is already established where most of the others are questionable at best.

If you go into a bit of history, you'll see that the 'free' or other low-priced subsidized phones very rarely lasted out their supposed 2-year lifespan while more expensive phones or ones bought out-of-contract could last double that lifespan or more. RIM's phones have a reliability rating higher than any other brand, including Apple's. RIM's phones are also among the more expensive.

I have very rarely had issues with any Apple product and when I have, Apple has taken very good care of me as a customer. I personally find your issues difficult to believe unless you have a physical issue (such as my own electrolyte issue) that affects your devices. As such, even then I'd find it difficult to accept that it only affects one brand of device. The only other option would be that you use your devices quite differently than I do and again that shouldn't be brand specific. I'd be happy to take those failed units off your hands and verify the failure if you'd like me to.

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just explaining why i prefer to stay away from Apple

by JJFitz In reply to Yes I did say that... But ...

I have not had much luck with them at all.
The 3 iPods had hard drive failures. You could hear the platter scraping.
The solid state iPod Touch is OK except that it has probelms playing certain songs and it is no longer eligible for an OS upgrade.
I put over 5000 songs on the first 3 iPods along with daily podcasts and weekly audiobooks. Maybe too many read/writes was a problem. Maybe it couldn't handle the hours I put it to use every day. Unless using it a lot is abusing it, I don't know why the drives crashed.

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Did you ever drop them?

by Vulpinemac In reply to just explaining why i pre ...

Personally, if any of my iPods was going to fail, it would have been my first-gen one that served in my car, winter and summer, sub-freezing to 100+ degrees for five years and it didn't fail until I stopped using it (replaced it with a newer model in the car). That first iPod was very bulky and had only a 4GB drive and from what I can tell, it wasn't the drive that failed, but the battery. None of my others has failed but as I suggested earlier, they've never been dropped or sat on either. Not even a Game Boy, designed for toughness, could stand up to much of that (and I used to repair Game Boys.)

I'm not saying you're misusing them, only asking how they've been treated in your household. Would any other device used the same way have survived as long?

I'm not

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I did not abuse them

by JJFitz In reply to Did you ever drop them?

My iPod's were fourth generation 40 GB devices. I misspoke earlier. It wasn't the 2nd gen. I never - repeat never dropped a single one.
It was either in the car in a holder / charger, in the dock, in my laptop bag, or in my pocket.
My last replacement was stolen from my glove compartment. The hard drive had just recently died so haha to the thief. He took my holder / charger though- bummer.
As I said, the hard drive crashed all three times. You could hear it scraping when it tried to boot.
I may have stressed it out with too many read / writes as I explained earlier but I never dropped one.
The Ipod Touch still works. It just poops out on a few Johnny Rivers songs. I'm just upset that I can't update the OS and that it takes 8 or more hours to completely refresh.
The micro SD in my Android phone is a much more convenient way to store my music and audiobooks. When I needed more storage space, upgrading the SD was as easy as copying the contents of one to the another with a $9 SD USB flash drive. and the Android apps moved too. :)

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on the other hand

by JJFitz In reply to @JJ: Show me your proof.

My Droid is a work horse of a communications device and it plays my music whether it is stored on a tiny removable SD card, in the cloud, on my server, or anywhere on any of my networked devices.

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