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August 3, 2009 at 3:52 am #2200028
Jobless NYC woman sues college for $70K in tuition
Lockedby jkameleon · about 14 years, 7 months ago
Good move! I guess that should tone down shortage shouting a little bit.
IT is constantly trumpeted as a field with chronic skill/workforce shortage. Critical talent crisis is perpetually imminent, predicted incessantly, never to occur.
The whole exercise is nothing but deceptive advertising on a global scale.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hOd5SMu_c48SwH6dYreQ4Cf7JNTQD99R312G0
NEW YORK – A New York City woman who says she can’t find a job is suing the college where she earned a bachelor’s degree.
Trina Thompson filed a lawsuit last week against Monroe College in Bronx Supreme Court. The 27-year-old is seeking the $70,000 she spent on tuition.
Thompson says she’s been unable to find gainful employment since she received her information technology degree in April.
She says the Bronx school’s Office of Career Advancement hasn’t provided her with the leads and career advice it promises.
Monroe College spokesman Gary Axelbank says Thompson’s lawsuit is completely without merit.
The college insists it helps its graduates find jobs.Information from: New York Post, http://www.nypost.com
Copyright – 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
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August 3, 2009 at 4:07 am #2760569
I hope she loses
by bizzo · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Jobless NYC woman sues college for $70K in tuition
Not meaning to sound nasty, but yes, I hope she loses.
If she wins this, then every graduate who passes their degree and cannot find a job will be suing their colleges and universities. If she is successful, I then hope the college is able to revoke her degree.
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August 3, 2009 at 5:44 am #2760556
Who owns the responsibility?
by goboslayer · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to I hope she loses
I wish for everyone to be able to find work, but at what point does the responsibility become her own? I have a real problem with the idea that anyone is under the assumption that a degree is a guarantee to employment. Then, when employment cannot secured, the university is at fault? Again, I don’t wish to accuse anyone, but I simply don’t follow this logic.
I also wouldn’t hire someone who sued the university for these reasons.
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August 19, 2010 at 2:15 am #2858470
re. Who owns the responsibility
by kjohnson6 · about 13 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Who owns the responsibility?
The responsibility becomes her own if she takes a degree subject which does not purport to enhance her employment prospects, doesn’t work hard enough at university to get a good degree class, leaves university without taking the final examination, or doesn’t look for work seriously after graduating.
With the way the government and the universities have been vaunting enhanced prospects of employment and higher salaries for graduates, you can’t just let them off the hook if they turn out to have been giving what in other circumstances would be a False Description By Way Of Trade.
If I represent some contingency to you as “If you do A and B then I will do C in exchange,” then I am responsible for doing C after you’ve done A and B. QED.
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August 19, 2010 at 2:07 am #2858471
I hope she wins
by kjohnson6 · about 13 years, 7 months ago
In reply to I hope she loses
This is not relevant to the US, but it is relevant to the UK.
Until Phoney Tony became Prime Minister, you could go to university for nothing and claim a small termly income to buy food and pay rent.
Mr Blair abolished that system, largely on the pretext (which turned out to be untrue, but that’s another story) that since graduates earn on average more than non graduates, graduates could afford to pay for their qualifications.
Therefore, if someone pays thirty or forty thousand pounds and gains a good degree, is heavily in debt, and is unemployed after several months despite searching for work in good faith, I think that person is suffering the consequences of a politically motivated management failure and deliberate misrepresentation and has a good case for being compensated.
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August 19, 2010 at 2:18 am #2858469
What will happen if she wins this…
by kjohnson6 · about 13 years, 7 months ago
In reply to I hope she loses
I do not agree. If she wins this, then any graduate who can’t get a job will at least expect a damn good explanation, coupled with compensation where the university has caused especial hardship. In future, the universities might like to stop bragging about how a degree can ensure you get a good job unless they can prove it. There is nothing wrong with a university inviting people to study a subject they love because they love it, with no enhanced job prospect.
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August 3, 2009 at 4:19 am #2760567
I’m curious
by boxfiddler · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Jobless NYC woman sues college for $70K in tuition
as to just when her life became someone else’s responsibility.
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August 3, 2009 at 6:08 am #2760549
About responsibility
by jkameleon · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to I’m curious
College degree is a huge investment of time, effort, and money. Even in countries, where tuition is paid by the state, there are opportunity costs.
Investor who loses money to stock pump and dump scheme, can easily press criminal charges against the boiler room operators who conned him. He’s not (fully) responsible for his loss, because he made his investment decision based on deceptive information.
IMHO, similar logic should apply to education too. Many people make a decision to invest into an IT degree based on false, deceptive information, like “There is a huge shortage of qualified IT professionals, employers are complaining they can’t fill the job positions, blah blah”.
It’s about time someone got the idea to sue a worthless degree peddler. I only wish this had happened sooner.
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August 3, 2009 at 6:20 am #2760541
That’s not the point.
by bizzo · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to About responsibility
The woman isn’t suing because she has a worthless degree. She’s suing because she cannot get a job after getting the degree. She says that the college “hasn’t provided her with the leads and career advice it promises”. Getting a degree isn’t a guarantee of a job. It’s the stepping stone to get a better career, but with anything, you need to put the effort in to get what you want out.
Why should the college be solely responsible for getting her a job? Yes, they can help and offer advice, but ultimately it’s down to her to put in the legwork.
After all, she’s 27 years old, intelligent enough to get a degree, but still want a job handed to her on a plate.
Again, there’s not a lot of information in the article, but at face value, the college isn’t to blame. It might be a different thing if the college guaranteed her a job, but that’s not been said.
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August 3, 2009 at 6:40 am #2760530
Well, it’s a beginning
by jkameleon · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to That’s not the point.
I agree with you about Thompson’s arguments not being the most well-chosen, but basically, the idea is not bad.
Class lawsuit against ITAA, BCS, various “getting women/youth/minorities/whomever into technology” initiatives etc would be an nice next step. As I’ve said before, these people are no better than boiler room swindlers.
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August 19, 2010 at 2:28 am #2858466
Jobs handed to you on a plate
by kjohnson6 · about 13 years, 7 months ago
In reply to That’s not the point.
The universities did arrange “milk round” visits in days gone by. In the former Soviet Union jobs for graduands were arranged months in advance, so graduates in engineering or foreign languages (for instance) stepped into a good, paid job as soon as their Finals paper had been marked. I believe Thailand operates a similar system for postgraduate degrees, although I may be mistaken about that.
If the student takes an “employable” degree on the understanding that he (she) will be able to get a job after graduating, and the student puts in the leg work and can prove it, for example by remaining eligible for Job Seeker’s Allowance for two years after graduating, I’d say that student has a good case for being compensated for all the work and money they have sunk into their degree.
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August 19, 2010 at 2:22 am #2858468
Worthless degrees
by kjohnson6 · about 13 years, 7 months ago
In reply to About responsibility
I think there’s a difference between a worthless degree and a degree which has no particular financial value in the employment market. By “worthless degree,” I presume you mean a bogus degree with no academic content. By “degree of no financial value” I mean spending three years reading nineteenth century Catalan poetry. Nothing wrong with that if it’s your love, but the university has to be honest and say (as Prof Karl Britton once did about philosophy degrees) that there is as yet no nineteenth century Catalan poetry industry into which graduates may be launched.
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August 3, 2009 at 4:35 am #2760564
Another story without all the facts, designed to irritate.
by charliespencer · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Jobless NYC woman sues college for $70K in tuition
“She says the Bronx school’s Office of Career Advancement hasn’t provided her with the leads and career advice it promises. … Monroe College spokesman Gary Axelbank says Thompson’s lawsuit is completely without merit. The college insists it helps its graduates find jobs.”
She said, he said. The story includes few details regarding post-graduation job placement assistance promises. Without the all the details, it is impossible for anyone reading this to formulate an informed opinion.
Based on the other articles and headlines on the NY Post’s home page, I’d say it was a publication more interested in sensationalism than accuracy.
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August 3, 2009 at 7:17 am #2760513
I agree
by fregeus · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Another story without all the facts, designed to irritate.
There isn’t enough information to make a sound judgment on the issue. Let cooler heads prevail.
TCB
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August 3, 2009 at 4:41 am #2760563
I wonder if anyone told her there’s more to getting a job than a degree
by deadly ernest · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Jobless NYC woman sues college for $70K in tuition
because the most qualified bitch or bastard will always have trouble getting a job. Also, a lot depends upon what she’s looking for, nearly all the IT jobs I see advertised they want people with experience and the few entry level jobs are at wages many degree holders will shun.
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August 3, 2009 at 6:18 am #2760542
I suspect she was told that it’s just a degree
by jkameleon · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to I wonder if anyone told her there’s more to getting a job than a degree
That’s how universities and other institutions of learning often advertise their services.
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August 3, 2009 at 6:20 am #2760539
I’ve been waiting for this to happen
by notsochiguy · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Jobless NYC woman sues college for $70K in tuition
However, I always thought the defendant would have been this place: http://www.computertraining.com/
“In just 6 months, you can become Microsoft certified, an on your way to a career that pays more than $50,000 to start.”
If it weren’t for various male enhancement pills, these would be by far the most annoying and worst commercials on the radio.
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August 3, 2009 at 6:30 am #2760534
My point exactly
by jkameleon · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to I’ve been waiting for this to happen
I agree about computertraining.com, but IT/CS universities aren’t much better. I think Monroe had it coming.
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August 3, 2009 at 6:43 am #2760529
As others have mentioned…
by notsochiguy · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to My point exactly
…without knowing the way that Monroe marketed, or what they specifically “promised”, I can’t say with certainty.
I just completed a Master’s degree in IT Proj. MGMT. through a large institution. At no time was I ever promised a job afterwards, or that the degree would directly lead me to the land of monetary milk & honey.
What I was promised is that the degree would help me in my career if I leveraged it properly (it has–if for no other reason than the application of the knowledge gained), and that I would have some great networking opportunities due to alumni events and other school-supported functions (again, right on the mark). The school also does have an extensive internship and job placement program; but as I was already a full-time employee, it was not something I needed.
So, my initial instinct is that the lawsuit is probably going to get tossed. HOWEVER, I’ll add the disclaimer that if the school did advertise it’s program in much the same way that the aforementioned training center did, I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the case. They’d be the modern equivalent of snake oil salesmen in my view!
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August 3, 2009 at 6:52 am #2760526
Yeah, it’s all about advertizing (nt)
by jkameleon · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to As others have mentioned…
nt
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August 3, 2009 at 7:21 pm #3002853
Refund of education
by xultan · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to I’ve been waiting for this to happen
This is really sad…
A Degree is a piece of paper proving that accomplished something… Learning a subject.
If the college has to refund her money… Does she have to give back the knowledge that she learned? 🙂
–Nathan
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August 4, 2009 at 3:46 am #3002805
Giving back knowledge is impossible, but…
by jkameleon · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Refund of education
… ms Thompson could demand compensation for the brain space wasted on the useless knowledge delivered by Monroe college.
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August 19, 2010 at 2:32 am #2858465
Giving back the knowledge
by kjohnson6 · about 13 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Refund of education
That’s an interesting point. In the UK, many – probably all – universities have a Statute saying that you can’t put their letters after your name until you have paid your fees. The implication is that if they refund your fees, you have to stop putting their qualification after your name. That seems quite fair to me.
Ken Johnson BA MSc
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August 4, 2009 at 4:41 am #3002802
Not the first time
by ed woychowsky · about 14 years, 7 months ago
In reply to I’ve been waiting for this to happen
In the mid-eighties a Community College in the mid-west was sued by its computer science graduates. It seems that rather than teach courses like COBOL and C they taught pre-IBM 1410 skills. Yes, their graduates could wire a tabulator, a rather useful skill in 1955, but essentially useless in 1985.
Needless to say the school lost the suit.
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