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  • #2188798

    Last Cup of Joe “Boss Cheating”


    by oufan ·

    My IT Manager lets call him “Joe”. Has some issues that is affecting an entire building. But
    before I start this thread a couple things. Those of you that fire off the one sentence quip about find another job please no need to post that.
    “Joe” is also the Director of Operations and has 2 Co-Managers that report directly to him outside of IT. One of the Managers it is widely believed that his is having an affair with. Case in point last week several people tried conacting him in his office in the building (knocking,calling, etc.) while “Female Co-manager” was in there and would not answer phone to anyone. Several people tried contacting him even the Executive Director. Still no answer, He emerged from his office about 30 minutes later looking very flushed.
    On several occasions he makes trips to the other Center where she manages which is over 3 hours away for no reason at all.
    The mood of the center is dismal. I have complained to the Executive director about his attitude towards the entire staff and his outright neglect of staffing issues. Its my job to support him and maintain user support.
    He constantly ties my hands with God like actions of locking me out of permissions based items that is neccessary to do my job. And yet when I tell users or Executive staff that “Joe” has me locked out of it he gets mad and tells me not to tell them that. Even though its true.
    I honestly love the company I work for and love doing the work. I have more creative and technical freedom than most people would even dream of. But when it comes to actually doing my job I look like a nut-tard because users are waiting on me waiting on him.
    Regular employee’s are dropping like flies since he took over as Operations Manager. Most people had worked here years, I mean years, are now leaving.
    My wife, who is a therapist, tells me its very much symtoms of leading a double life. That your work performance is directly effected by your personal life. I tend to believe her. In his blatentness about closed doors.
    I think the other Co-Manager could sue for reverse sexual descrimination if it was found out the “other” co-manager was getting preferential treatment which has been shown in her going to lunchs with “Joe” and most likely and unproven yet has gotten a better bonus even though her center is less performing.
    All of this boils down to what steps should I do for someone who may have had the same thing happen in their office?
    I want to ride this out and maybe on the other side have the managers position.
    I know discussion board has a echo of bosses gone wild lately but its a great place to see what you might have done or did in same or like situation and kept your job.

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    • #3043726

      Do Not Circumvent Your Boss

      by wayne m. ·

      In reply to Last Cup of Joe “Boss Cheating”

      You obviously have no respect for your boss.

      There is really no need to repeat your suppositions of what he is doing here or at the office. It certainly is not appropriate to point fingers at your boss with Executive Director, Executive Staff, or users. If you do not have the access you need to complete a task, just say that and schedule a time to come back later. Ask you boss either for the necessary access or for him to complee the task.

      Let upper management deal with any questionable actions by your boss. Stay out of the situation and perform your tasks to the best of your ability. One of the qualities valued in a manager is loyalty. Put aside your views on your boss’s character and do what he asks. Do not try to embarrass him by complaining to users and executrive staff that he doesn’t give you all of the access permissions you think you deserve.

      The best way to play politics is to not play politics. Respect the chain of command even though you may not respect your boss.

      • #3043712

        Loyalty at what cost?

        by wordworker ·

        In reply to Do Not Circumvent Your Boss

        But how much loyalty is one supposed to show one’s manager, Wayne? Absolutely, unconditional loyalty, even in the face of immoral and possibly illegal behavior? I fear a wave of posts saying “get the heck out of there” is in this guy’s future. I’m all for being loyal, but to the COMPANY and its mission, not to some philandering, lying, cheating, scumbag, just because he or she happens to hold a management position.

        • #3046225

          Focus on Areas of Responsibility

          by wayne m. ·

          In reply to Loyalty at what cost?

          The simple fact is the poster is in no position to manage or discipline his boss. In the post there appears only one item that affects the poster’s work and that is some type of access rights, and there is insufficient information to determine if this is a significant issue.

          The poster is not being asked to be complicit in any activity, nor does the poster report anything directly affecting him beyond the tussle over access rights. There is no purpose served by repeating gossip to coworkers, executive staff, and on websites. This is not to say that the poster should not report what he has observed during an investigation by HR or upper management, but other than that, let the people being harmed report the problems themselves.

          My impression is that the poster got into a power struggle with his boss over the level of access rights he was assigned and has then gone about trashing his boss in every forum available. If his boss is replaced, the poster is taking the risk that the new boss will have the same view.

          It is curious that the poster links a trivial issue with a catastrophic issue and this leads to questions regarding the motiviation. The catastrophic issue is outside the realm of control for the poster, so this leaves the trivial issue and this is where the poster is undercutting his boss. Circumventing one’s boss because he didn’t give one all the access rights desired is never appropriate.

    • #3043660

      How did the Executive Director react?

      by dc guy ·

      In reply to Last Cup of Joe “Boss Cheating”

      Okay, so you’ve already circumvented your boss and gone to the Executive Director. The deed is done so there’s no point in arguing its merits after the fact. What’s important now is what you have achieved and/or learned from that confrontation.

      Was he (male I presume?) sympathetic at all? Did he seem surprised? Did he act like he even cared? Did he tell you to leave it alone? Or did he just “handle” you, “Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I assure you that it will be handled appropriately”?

      Executives didn’t get their jobs by being blind or stupid. When something like this has been going on for a while, they generally know about it. If you’ve brought this to the attention of your manager’s boss, then you’ve done all that you can do at your level.

      The most optimistic hypothesis is that the executive may already be working on this problem. He wants to keep a low profile to avoid embarrassing the company so he doesn’t appreciate you trying to increase its visibility.

      The worst case is that the executive is in on it. Perhaps one of the two parties in the liaisons is a friend or relative of his own boss and he’s been told to look the other way. Maybe he owes them a favor, or a lot of money. Maybe he’s planning to leave soon and doesn’t want this dirty laundry to hit the street on his watch.

      People who do something as seemingly risky as holding trysts in their office MAY simply be stupid (or blinded by romance) but it’s more likely that they have a reason for feeling safe.

      Tread very lightly here. This smells like a minefield to me. Let somebody else take the shrapnel.

      • #3043653


        by wordworker ·

        In reply to How did the Executive Director react?

        Great response, DC Guy. I have seen someone hurt by just such a mine field. The netadmin of this mid-to-large size company had hard evidence that a certain VP was sending and receiving porn using the company email system and finding new Web sites to visit — violating the company’s code of conduct and the email, network security, and internet usage policies. Sure he was on safe ground, the netadmin publicized his findings, thinking he would be congratulated on his ability to sniff out the evildoers. But no. He was told to look the other way, and he did. Soon after he was asked to train his replacement and let go. Fair? Not at all. But what you goin’ to do?

      • #3043593

        Reaction: Warm at Best.

        by oufan ·

        In reply to How did the Executive Director react?

        Great Reply and thanks for the question.
        When I brought up to Exec Director about Performance issues and the overall problems facing the department he assured me he was aware that their were issues and they were being dealt with. I did not say anyting about what I didn’t know was fact. I stuck to the facts and said nothing about the relationship I felt was unappropriate.
        He said “Things are going to get better I promise”. A few days after that conversation I was called into “Joes” Office and he said I heard you are not happy with things that are going on around here. I told him the facts that my hands were tied and that I was taking on a more hybrid role in our department with the move of “my” backup to another department. I wasn’t being compensated for it but I enjoyed the new challenges. Of course this meant more hours which I knew was part of job being salary. But asked him when the other person was going to comeback to department he said he didnt know and that the issue was out of his hands.
        FACT: person that was moved to another department filed sexual harrasment against him 6 months ago. FACT: over a year ago another female filed sexual harrasment against “Joe” as well. I don’t know the disposition of either other than the first one wich she told me that “It wasn’t handled but she was affraid of losing her job.”
        Well she didn’t lose her job but she did get moved.
        So with all this I guess I can just stay the course do my job and hope that the Executive Director doesnt start to think that eliminating the entire department would be “good business”.

        • #3046144

          Red Flags, Ahoy!

          by crawk ·

          In reply to Reaction: Warm at Best.

          Two known harrassment suits, dispositions unknown, and now another irregularity? After reading your report of Executive reaction, I’m suspending my pre-judgment that this third (or more) one is just another affair. Believe me, I know more about this kind of thing than I care to remember.

          Bad moon on the rise, my friend. Sounds like you’ve got a terrific job, but at a baa-aad company. Management supports its own no matter what, until forced into other action by powers far bigger than they. And those powers, you ain’t.

          There’s always the possibility that you’ll survive, but there’s also always the possibility that the Mississippi River will run backwards for three days or that the Japanese Mafia controls global weather patterns.

          Lay low (I burrowed to my office under the floor tiles for a few years, but survived the wierdness here), keep eyes and ears open, document everything like the one poster said (sorry, don’t remember who), take all your personal stuff home (inconspicuously), brush up your resume, and pray to your higher-power-of-choice.

          Maybe – MAYbe – quietly – feel out trusted others for opinions and concerns. But be careful of networking because Joe and Management has moles everywhere.

          Watch your back.

          And keep us posted!!

    • #3043560

      I know you don’t want to hear this…

      by jmgarvin ·

      In reply to Last Cup of Joe “Boss Cheating”

      Pick up and leave. It sounds like the executive doesn’t care that much what is happening. It also sounds like the bleeding of the experienced IT shop isn’t important either.

      Since you can’t do your job, it means at some time they (your boss and his cohort) will find a reason to fire you. Not only that, but you will look like the bad guy for “starting rumors.”

      #hat can you do?
      1) Document when these things happen and how long they happen for (closed doors and no contact)
      2) Document when you cannot get work done because your boss limited your permissions
      3) Do NOT go to the executive anymore. Go directly to your boss
      4) Do talk to HR about what you can do if you feel you are being ignored or your boss is acting improperly
      5) Do keep logs of what you do durning the day. Make sure you document ALL of your tasks during the day.
      6) Do be prepared to be fired. It could happen. Your boss may retaliate and fire you. Be prepared and don’t be surpised if it happens

      This is going to be ugly and you dragged yourself into office politics. You will have to deal with accusations and possible firing.

      • #3046310


        by sunniejoann ·

        In reply to I know you don’t want to hear this…

        manytimes as is known in the course of the working day and projects to be accomplished you must get permission for access etc…and a withit Boss wants to permit access, and direction. This particular Boss is abusing his own position and offering no direction to his employees, its a powder keg….and as for being dragged into the politics…we all know what it is like to be squeezed from both sides…in the best of times. Staff in your office who have legitimate requests, that should be able to handled immediately and rather innocent demands and the frustration of knowing unless you can handle this other problem nothing will happen and you can’t explain that its this manager that is holding up the boat so what to do? I think in trying to serve and do a good job a worker gets dragged into the drama of politics.
        My opinion is to be a manager you must take X hours of interpersonal communication and PR and you may not hold the position until you have proven your merit through many work-a-day trials…say with directing a group of 5. For some reason managers become stove-pipers, “I know everything” syndrome and but-covers at the least…they always know how to save themselves…finger someone else. Ya I say move on there has to be a better environment where the staff can be served.

    • #3046405

      Are you mad at…

      by jkaras ·

      In reply to Last Cup of Joe “Boss Cheating”

      a person getting a little something, something on the clock and not you? Is she hot? lol.
      Seriously, every job has a boss you cant reason with, see eye to eye, and always has the last word despite any professional demeanor. Are you sure you have all the facts and not the “office speculatative gossip”? I find it hard to believe that a boss can keep a job and get offending sexual harrassment employees transferred and keep his job in today’s world. Most people do meet their spouses at work than bars, clubs, or church. If he is up to no good or acting the fool, sooner or later it will hit the fan and he will be gone. If not, make your decision whether you want to be around or not. I would just put head down, do what you have to, and try not to rock the boat. Lies only last so long, the truth always emmerges, then it’s show time.

    • #3046363

      If you love the company, tough love may be necessary

      by gdoc ·

      In reply to Last Cup of Joe “Boss Cheating”

      You may have to get (shudder) HR involved in this.
      If, at a later date, someone brings a sexual harrasment suit against the company, and it comes out in the investigation that others knew of the behaviour and insufficient action was taken, it could be construed as a “hostile work environment” thus leading to a stronger finding against the company.
      If you can get the others that were harassed to file official complaints with HR they have specific proceedures, and safeguards associated with handling these complaints. If the issues are not properly documented and the proceedures implemented the company can suffer a greater loss once he’s been found guilty of one count and the rest of them come out of the dark and file thier lawsuits.
      Its better that one bad apple be tossed than have the whole department or company suffer.

      • #3046294


        by oufan ·

        In reply to If you love the company, tough love may be necessary

        HR is one lady that was moved from reception to the position when the former HR manager moved up the chain in another department. Im no Quick books expert by any means but Ive been called over to straighten out more than payroll. So HR doesnt really know the HR rules. Its hard working for a small company… haha.

        • #3044085

          Management idiots

          by jakaiju ·

          In reply to HR

          The executive who made that interoffice hire for a receptionist’s move to HR manager has got to be a complete idiot. I can only conjecture that if the exec is a male he thinks the receptionist is physically attractive and doesn’t care about merit (or lack thereof).

          According to what you’ve posted, it sounds as if your company needs some serious management revamping. Most regular employees would agree that office/corporate politics f-up most everything for the enjoyment of a career or job.

          I do enjoy the threads on this site wherein IT people state that unruley managers get sh*t-canned sometimes (lol). I have had some unreasonable, even scum bag bosses where I have wanted to give them a running kick in the crotch (I have never done this though, but it takes wisedom and self-control to work through the problems :o).

    • #3046247

      Investigation Time??

      by ttosun ·

      In reply to Last Cup of Joe “Boss Cheating”

      If you/your company suspects any wrongdoing which affects overall company/department work, we may be able to help.

      Look here:

      We do computer forensics as well as corporate investigations. Although I’m sure you don’t much care about the direct politics of your workplace, I’m sure your Executives would not approve. Besides, if he’s cheating in his relationships, what else might he be cheating on?

    • #3045684

      Get over it

      by bschaettle ·

      In reply to Last Cup of Joe “Boss Cheating”

      This really is none of your business, and I’m sure it’s not part of your job description to be a whistle-blower. You’re trying to impose your values on someone else’s behavior. You need to ask yourself why you’re expending all this energy focusing on someone else’s behavior. If you’re really all that worked up about it, go to your HR Dept, file a complaint, and then move on.

    • #3044253

      Leave it alone

      by mfurman ·

      In reply to Last Cup of Joe “Boss Cheating”

      So what if he is abusing his position to get busy behind closed doors. Why aren’t you pissed at her too? You think she doesn’t have an agenda. Climb down from your podium mr preacher there and ask yourself if you’d like a subordinate talking about what you do to those in the office. As for the access not being granted. Document it and wait. If you have to twidle your thumbs do so. I suggest documenting all issues. I made my own little trouble ticket database just to log where all my time goes and to whom it’s spent on. You might find that your time is spent other than you’d guess at first. I have a boss that is crashing his pc from all the porn he looks at. He has a mostly female staff but yet he does it anyway. What would I get for “ringing the porn bell”? Not a damn thing unless I wanted to be fired. Be loyal to the prick, or at the very least don’t undermine him. If you can, start backing out of the office politics. You may already be too late, but try. Bottom line: If you want to stay, start protecting yourself and be less of a cop, if you want to go … then go.

    • #3044140

      Cool Your Jets

      by alice.santarlasci ·

      In reply to Last Cup of Joe “Boss Cheating”

      Step back and reframe this situation. First, I have to tell you I’ve been in your shoes (hope this helps you listen). The senior executives at your company know what’s going on. Eventually one of the two parties will be let go. It may indeed be the female and not Joe. If so, Joe will just find a new victim internally and you will know that the company has decided to assume the liability and will eventually be sued for doing so.
      The other possibility is Joe will indeed be demoted or let go and the problem will be resolved.
      Either way, senior management will not be happy if you start pursuing the sexual harassment issue and you may indeed be looked at as the ‘loose cannon’ in this situation. You will become suspect for litigious actions. On the other hand, dealing with abusive treatment by Joe to you is your one and only issue with this company. You need to consult a lawyer, do what you are told by the attorney and protect yourself from further abuse. Don’t muddle the picture with issues that are not directly related to you (yes, yes I understand you feel the Joe/messing around is an issue – forget about it).
      Best of luck.

    • #3044093

      Hate the Player? Hate the Game

      by jm ·

      In reply to Last Cup of Joe “Boss Cheating”

      Supposing the individuals were having a sexual relationship — would that be any of your business? Would that be the company’s business? Chances are, if you get yourself tied up in other people’s business, threatening other people’s livelihood, you are going to get a rude response. Like being fired. Getting mad and hurting your boss is not the way to fix the problems arising from the ineviteble force of human attraction.

      Legally, the company would need to get involved if one of the players was getting denied access to promotions or other benefits as a result of refusing the relationship. But, as stated by another poster, that’s between the player and the company– if they feel wronged, they can take it up themselves.

      The bottom line is, if one of them is doing something insincere, either it’s going to catch up with them without your intervention, or else they are suffering it right now. Have sex with someone you don’t like? Yecko.

      You are going to get farther in this life if you can patiently take a lesson from this and apply it to yourself, rather than disturbing the natural flow of events.

      My suggestion to you is that you take this in stride and use all this anger you have to work on your own style: get a better car, dress better, invest in some really expensive cologne. Go to the gym. Even if you are not a player, focusing on your own charisma is not going to hurt your career, particularly when you are working for one, and may be working for the other one, one day. Visually emulating your boss is the surest way to advancement, because your boss likely got his position for the same non-technical qualities.

      Sexual attraction, unfulfilled, is much more powerful and reliable motivator for perks and benefits, than a straight up exchange. Hate it if you will, it’s just a reality of human nature.

      • #3044918


        by jmgarvin ·

        In reply to Hate the Player? Hate the Game

        How is NOT the business of the company? They are having sex on company time, in a company building, in a company office, on a company desk.

        It sounds like you are defending unethical and “bad” behavior…is that so?

        • #3044904


          by jm ·

          In reply to Huh?

          It is definitely untoward behavior, particularly if the parties are so inept as to be detected by a subordinate. Obviously they are making some kind of a “statement” on company time.

          I am not defending the behavior. The question, however, was how one might approach such a situation without quitting. The debate is whether to play one’s cards. And I think that playing along, without participating in any transgression, would only work in the poster’s favor.

        • #3044894

          I don’t know

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Huh?

          That would make the person culpable if a lawsuit ever crept up (and I’m sure one will)…I don’t know if silence is the best bet…

          I do know that the ball has already started rolling and he might as well finish what he started (which is spilled milk now). So the plan (to me) is that he continues with the documentation and prepares for the retalitory strike…

    • #3115692

      Last Cup of Joe “Boss Cheating”

      by grobi43 ·

      In reply to Last Cup of Joe “Boss Cheating”

      In my opinion, you must start attempting to find a professional atmosphere in which you could do some productive work; your boss “Joe” is “Off the chain, jumped the fence and is down the street” There could be no respect for a boss who has allowed this situation to occur on his/her watch; pretty soon there is going to be a major confrontational blowout between this boss and one of his workers, (maybe even you!)you know at the senior technical levels, the whole of the person has to be considered, and if this person has no integrity, they could never be an effective boss/manager/technician!

      • #3115552

        It is

        by oufan ·

        In reply to Last Cup of Joe “Boss Cheating”

        It is a professional atmospher.. joking one mostly. But over all Work is done.. But as many have said in the posts that it is construde and is illegal. I just don’t feel like its appropriate behavior.
        Side Note: I still don;t want to go out looking for another job and Im not preaching to anyone about tolerating this or anything other. Plain and simple.. its bad work ethic.

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