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mayve the fact he has the evidence from decades of close study, while

By techrepublic ·
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Written records? Seriously?!

by techrepublic In reply to mayve the fact he has the ...

Let me clarify it for you. Written records older than the 19 century are TOTALLY USELESS for climate research. Why? Because the data has a very small geographic and time coverage and most of the sparse data that exists is of very poor quality due too uncalibrated and low precision thermometers.

True climate research uses geologic, biologic, and isotopic records that are more precise with a far wider geographic and time coverage.

As for the "ignoring the over a thousand years of written records that disagree with what they want the answer to be", what a coincidence (or is it a conspiracy?!) that over 99% of the climate scientists from dozens of countries with varied personalities, cultures, religions, and personal backgrounds want the answer to be the same...

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the thousands of ships logs are very specific about time and place

by Deadly Ernest In reply to Written records? Seriousl ...

and much more comprehensive than a few meteorological stations set up in very limited locations as the ships logs cover much more of the world. Other written records include those from the Egyptians, the Romans , and other ancient civilisation recording the details of daily life in their parts of the world. Records of growing warm climate grapes in places that are too cool now. records of land falls on sea coasts that are now miles inland due to the seas retreating due to the cooling global temperatures locking the water up in the polar caps.

Also, the scientist involved in the long term studies have been using ice cores from both poles, seabed cores, and many geological records.

These are all sources ignored by those (scientists and others) pushing the human caused global warming agenda for their own political purposes.

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Don't even start on that

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to the thousands of ships lo ...

Records of growing warm climate grapes in places that are too cool now.

Comparing modern variates of Grapes which can not be grown Economically under the current Global Industry in cold places completely overlooks the basic facts.

First when Grapes where grown in those so called Cold Areas there was no way to transport the Grape Products from where they grew well in a timely fashion before the products went off.

Secondly what is economical today is only economical because of technology. Look at Milk. Even in AU many Dairy Farmers are going out of business because the cost of production is in excess of what the Milk Processing Companies will pay for locally produced milk.

So are you placing an argument on the table that Global Cooling or whatever is responsible for it no longer being economical to produce milk locally?

The Variates of Grapes that are being talked about are completely different they had better Cold Climate tolerance and they also had lower yields. The Grapes have been breed since that time and the grapes that where grown then are completely different. The old species have all long since passed into what is effectively extinction as they are not profitable to grow anywhere now days.

They have also been selectively breed to produce greater yields and to specifically grow in a suitable climate the Cold and Hot Weather tolerance has been breed out of them. Hence you do not see any grape varieties grown in commercial amounts in anything but their very localized regions.

records of land falls on sea coasts that are now miles inland due to the seas retreating due to the cooling global temperatures locking the water up in the polar caps.

Where is this suppose to have been? All current land masses are disappearing not enlarging and a lot of the Land Fall listings is where the explorers sailed up rivers to find a sheltered location to land and spend some time exploring. They didn't weigh Anchor on a Storm Battered Coast where their sole means of return to where they came from could be destroyed in a single storm. They always landed in sheltered areas on the Lee Side so that they had protection from the prevailing weather conditions.

The Old Ships Logs are at best marginal, particularly the Ships who went Exploring as they lacked accurate Time Pieces to accurately position their locations while at sea. Even when they made Land Fall in a Known Location their position was often massively different to the stated location of their destination. So at best they can be used as nothing more than a Rough Guide to the suspected locations.

Then go to the other side of the coin what was once flood areas or considered as Seas have disappeared. For instance look at the UK where large areas where once regularly flooded and high Outcrops were the only place where people could live. Those flooded areas where quite often incorrectly called seas or lakes. It's not that the water has receded but better Man Made Drainage has been built over many hundreds of years that has caused this to happen. It has nothing at all to do with Climate Change. Take the country of Holland also, what where it's above water areas before the Dyke's where built and drained so that the land could be reclaimed? Is that a area where what is now dry land is massively away from the coast?

I'm assuming that it must be because Man changed the Above Water Land Area and that is accepted by all as Common History. If Man was to remove the Wind Mills/Pumping Stations just how long would that land remain above water?

Also, the scientist involved in the long term studies have been using ice cores from both poles, seabed cores, and many geological records.

Most defiantly they have as these are more accurate than the written records from before it was possible to accurately locate your position. Ice Cores are very good at measuring the CO2 levels in the Atmosphere as the CO2 is locked in the ice and can be measured fairly easily today.

Other written records include those from the Egyptians

And just where in the surviving Written records of the Egyptians is there a cause for the fall of that empire? Geological Records clearly show a Lack of Rain Fall as the cause of the demise of the Egyptian Culture. Empire or whatever anyone wants to call it and in those records they show what was once on the banks of the Nile retreating away from the river as it shrunk and the Incursion of the Desert into what where previously fertile areas used for growing food stocks.

Cherry Picking records to suit your own argument is not what Science is about it is producing Junk Science and giving it as much weight as Real Science.

I remember many years ago in the late 60 to early 70's a Specific Scientist who was warning about Climate Change and the shrinking of the Ozone Layer who was derided by everyone including fellow Scientists.

He was correct but did not have any Scientific Facts and Long Term Observations to back up his claims he just had a Gut Feeling which is what all of the Climate Change Nay Sayers have because they don't want to face the possibility that they are wrong or that they do not know it all. Of course those Nay Sayers are also the ones who will not be living in the mess that we create and will not have to clean it up so in all honestly they have nothing to loose by promoting more of the "Same Old Same Old" where they do not have to be put out personally. They have their own "Vested Interests" placed above everyone else and they don't give a Rats about anyone but themselves and want to continue along the same lines as they always have and live in the same standard without any thought for the future.

Just remember Oil isn't running out either and we have not even began to reach Peek Discovery let alone Peek Production, which even the Oil Companies have admitted has already happened. The prices increases in Oil are actually Engineered by the Oil Companies to get bigger profits not because we want to use more than is available and the world is currently relying on Capitalism to limit the amount used daily. :^0


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Hey Col, another thing a lot of people forget in this subject

by Deadly Ernest In reply to Don't even start on that

is that the Earth is almost a closed system and all the carbon etc tied up in those trees and coal was once in the atmosphere anyway. So it could be argued (which I'm not) that it belongs in the air and we're just returning it to where it started. - How's that for a devil's advocate argument?

And, no carbon and the plant life dies out.

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Well maybe if you want to go to that extreme

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Hey Col, another thing a ...

As we Humans are Carbon Based Life Forms returning so much Carbon to the Atmosphere is the only solution for the Good of the Planet. Kill Ourselves off completely and let the planet recover on it's own.

Not to mention we need to turn all that Crystalline Carbon back into a Gas, now that will keep the Ladies and Bling Collectors happy wont it? :0

Yep sounds sensible to me as well. :^0


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OK, start the movement - as the proctologist said to the client -nt

by Deadly Ernest In reply to Well maybe if you want to ...


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Or as the Barmen say to the Client

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to OK, start the movement - ...

In a Gay Bar.

Excuse me Sir but I notice your stool is out a bit to far would you like me to push it in for you?


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