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More about wireless and "wardriving"

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by geekchic 2 views

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I set up a wireless connection in my home about a year ago. When I first set it up, I didn't really secure it in anyway and there were no other wireless connections in the area. But then someone else in the neighborhood set up a wireless system and I kept logging into it accidently. It was called 'linksys'. Then I locked down my system using MAC addresses. Next, MSHOME popped up and I could log into either one of them without any problem so I got kind of freaked out and locked down my wireless and it is now considered "secure" by most standards. Of course I realize that any self respecting hacker could get into it but at least no one in the neighborhood can use it easily.

Since the Christmas holidays began, I now have access to MSHOME, LINKSYS, KIRBYS AND LATTA. And ocassionaly one pops up called WORKGROUP.

Now for your opinion please, I know that I can find these homes pretty easily, do you think it would be a neighborly thing for me to approach these people and point out that they need to set up some kind of security for these systems? Or do you think that I would be opening a can of worms by offering this info??

38 replies

by faradhi

I have both of my neighbors have wireless networks. I felt that I should tell them. However, I also find that once someone knows that I am a computer administrator, they have a new best friend. Subsequently, I get few weekends to myself.

by geekchic

that is what I am sort of worried about to. If I tell them about it, they might want help and that is ok but in the past, when I have helped people, they seem to forget that I have a life outside of work. Besides, some people I have talked to about it don't seem to think it is a problem if someone uses their wireless network....they don't think it is a big deal.

Thanks fo the response...I am still thinkin' about what to do!!!

by emj65

you can give them the information, but then point them straight back to their service provider for assistance. This is why home users who haven't a clue should not be using wireless!

by jdclyde

then it's not. the average home user is in more danger from the internet than they ever will be from an open access point.

Look at all the dial-up yahoos that don't even realize they still need a firewall. They are more likely to get wacked than the open access point.

Someone shares your bandwidth? Big whoop.

Now, if if is a business then it MIGHT not be so bad of an idea to secure it. They still have more to fear from the internet than they ever will from that access point.

Most of the hype about wireless security is just that, hype. It gets you to buy the latest wizbang to protect yourself because someone scared you real bad.

Secure the PC's first, then look at the wireless. True, some networks NEED higher security than others, and administrative servers should be segmented off anyways.

Vlans and access lists that only allow certain known people in. Just hysteria from there on.

by choppit

How about posting an anonymous postcard through their doors? You'll have alerted them to the problem and put a little mystery into their lives.

by jdclyde

are there places where a service provider will even TALK to you if you have ANY router between their "modem" and your computer?

All I can say, in Michigan they won't even START to talk to you until you connect your PC directly to the modem.

Home user shouldn't have wireless? Please state exactly why. As I said in my other post, they are threatened more from having ANY internet connection then they EVER will be from having an open access point. Or are you worried that grandma will lose some bandwidth?

Hype and fear factor to scare people into buying more and more security products and take more and more security classes.

by master3bs

ISP's will not talk to you if you have a router hooked up, nor should they unless it is a router they provide. The tech support responsibility for that lies with the manufacturer of the router.

by wojnar

I am no longer living in the great state of Michigan (GO BLUE) but know of a number of Michigan/Detroit based ISP's who take pride in giving customer support beyond the modem.

I think the point of the previous post was that people are quick to latch onto new technology without finding out its proper use. People wouldn't take their brand new Mercedes and hook up a snow plow to the front bumper but I know of one person who tried to use a dialup connection to host a web server.

Most problems - including 99% of virus infections - could be prevented if people stopped assuming things or simply asked questions instead of thinking they know all about the technology because they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night ...

by dc guy

Always be careful offering someone a free sample of your services. They may not understand that you're a professional giving them a taste of what you can do for them at your standard hourly rate. And methinks you don't quite understand that either. ^_^

Everyone has different marketing skills and standards, so there's no one-size-fits-all way to knock on your neighbor's door, tell him strangers are sharing his internet connection for free, make it clear that he's already used up his one free question, AND convey your level of interest in taking on paid gigs when you're not at the office.

But that is what you have to be prepared to do when you knock on that door, or it might very well turn out to be the lid on a can of worms.

by jdclyde

no one wants worms unless they are going fishing!

You taking the time to tell them is half offering to fixing it for them.

Either offer to fix it or don't bring it up.

by wojnar

I see my obligation as being to inform. If somebody doesn't know how to use all the features of their DVR, is it your oblicgation to explain it to them ?

My suggestions is to print a message that you can place on peoples doors that say you have been able to identify they have an unsecured connection. Explain the risks (briefly) and suggest they read the manual that came with their access point to see how they can secure their device. You may want to copy the page from your own router as an example. Finally, suggest they call the tech support of the manufacturer for any help. It worked for me to do it this way. If you really feel like helping, you could include your email address. (I would think twice about that though)

by matthew yurksaitis

In reading your post it is difficult to determine if you enabled WEP, WPA, changed the Frequency (channel) to another channel, and disabled the Broadcast feature. I did see you restricted access by MAC address, however that does not "secure" the WAP device (linksys by info in Post). As a good measure before approaching someone else and suggesting what they might be able to do, it is always due dilligence to ensure that you have done everything you can do. Just based on your post alone I suspect that by enabling WEP or WPA and changing your wirless channel and/or disabling broadcast you may find that you will not get the interference of the SSID's of the other devices. My suggestion is check your settings for WEP/WPA, Channel & Broadcast as well as your SSID (to make sure it is not the same as any of the ones you listed)and if all these are in place and enabled then it may be time to approach your nieghbors to work out a resolution.

by geekchic

changed the channel and the SSID and some other things that came preset. I should have mentioned that.

by matthew yurksaitis

Thanks for the clarifying detail. It sounds like a channel conflict more than anything else. Most WAP devices have roughly 11 channels, so unless there are 11 different other WAP devices popping up you may want to try selecting a different channel. There are a number of wireless software packages which will pick up broadcasts, SSID's and thier channels for use in situations like this. Most of them are shareware or commercial, but you can easliy use a trial version to obtain the lists of WAP devices & thier associated SSID's and channels. This may help you in selecting the settings for your device which would be least likely to have conflicts. If there are too many other devices around, then disabling your broadcast may also help. Other than that you may be in a situation where other's have posted to contact the neighbors as a friendly nieghbor and let them know the situation - they may not even be aware of this themselves. If they ask for help, then you may suggest any of the technical service providers in your area but it would be more professional not offer help yourself for a fee as this may be considered solicitation. That's always a touchy subject.

by gpastorelli

Unless you want to be there all the time I wouldn't even bring it up. I've been there done that with my neighbors/friends/family. You'd be surprised how freely they'll come up to you for help, until you tell them you have to charge them. Your phone stops ringing instantaneously. Most ppl will take you going there to offer some advice an offer for free services. Next thing you know you won't be able to get the paper without a question about computers.

by geekchic

I am very leary of telling them anything but like someone else mentioned, just having someone use your bandwidth isn't that big of a deal. But I have limited skills when it comes to networking (I am a software person mostly) and I was actually able to get to one of their hard drives with my limited knowledge!

by faradhi

However, I cringe at offering this...

This option assumes that they are 1) using XP or 2000, 2) have not disabled the messenger service and 3) do not have a firewall. It also assumes that you have XP or 2000.

Attach to their network. Create a batch file that will send a message to the computer using the NET SEND * command. The message could be as simple as your network is unsecured please secure it.

Schedule the batch file to run every 15 mins or so. It will annoy the crap out of them until they secure the network in some way or disable the messenger service.

However, I agree with jdclyde that those people are at more of a risk by being on the internet than having a insecure wireless AP.

Ok guys and Gals let me have it

by geekchic

I do agree that the internet is probably a bigger worry for them. I doubt seriously if they even have a firewall, much less a virus scanner.

I just got back from visiting family in South Carolina and my brother had broadband installed in February of 05 and he had no firewall since then and his virus scanner was not updating itself or scanning for viruses! AND the company that he uses provides a FREE firewall! WHen I set it up for him and showed him what it did, he was amazed and shocked....he had no idea. Seems like COMCAST would help newbies with this kind of stuff.

by faradhi

Comcrap, smellsouth, SOBc, none of them provide any assistance. In fact, everytime smellsouth has a problem I have to by pass my firewall to prove to them that the problem is on their end.

by sleepin'dawg

over half of them think firewalls and antivirus protection are only for businesses and doesn't apply to them plus they are afraid to be thought ignorant for asking questions. It seems you got all the tech genes in your family. Can your brother walk and chew gum at the same time???LOL:^O Comcast will help but they have to be asked for help first. I think your brother must be proof that something looks after fools and drunks and now it seems, newbies. Connected via broadband since Feb/05 and no virus attack??? How about tracking cookies and spyware??? Amazing, fvcking amazing!!!

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by dc guy

I suppose there are twelve threads already dedicated to Comcast's legendary service.

I tried to program a timer-recording of a TV show and got an error message that I had exceeded the maximum number of timers. This was odd since I had once had eight or nine and now had only three. I figured I must have forgotten to cancel an "every week" timer when the show went off the air--something you would expect the software to do since it can ONLY be keyed by show ID, not by time.

So I'll just scroll up a list of all my timers and cancel the obsolete ones. Hmm, how do I do this anyway? Not on the menu, not in the little book, I'll just call customer support.

They were very nice, bright, sympathetic, and on U.S. soil, by the way. I got all the way to a supervisor who put me on hold while she talked to her manager and to a tech guru. She came back in tears because she couldn't solve my problem.

There is no way to view all of your timer recordings! You have to remember them and cancel them yourself when your program's season ends.

I unplugged the cable box for 24 hours and it forgot everything so I could start over. However, the next time I tried that trick it didn't work. 48 hours later everything was still in memory. They won't replace my box for free for this reason since they don't have a problem code for it!

by techsupport1

If there is a neighborhood association and they print a newsletter, write about wireless security. If you do not want to get inundated with questions, say in the article to contact the manufacturer for support.

by deadly ernest

and let them know that their network is accessible by anyone in the area, offer to secure it for them for a price and also give them a list of other suitable techs in the area that can do - a copy of the relevant section of the phone book should do.

That is be a neighbour and friend to them.

by hal 9000

But with so many open wireless connections around I would at least contact those with the unsecured links and at the very least let the owners know of what it is that they are allowing to happen.

The Trivia Geek had a thread a couple of months ago where I got some local "Legal" advice on this issue which made everyone sit back and think about the problems of Wireless networking and how things like the Patriot Act could be used when someone hijacks your wireless connection and downloads material which leaves the owner of the Wireless Connection liable for Prosecution, it should be easy enough to find.

But only tell these people of the possible Legal Problems "[b]Do Not[/b] offer to lock down their wireless Networks as even if you do manage to lock them down very tightly it will be you who may be held responsible if anything goes wrong and the Authorities become involved.

Col ]:)

by geekchic

that I never thought about it from that aspect! We live near a MAJOR military installation not to mention about 30 miles from the Crawford Ranch of W....I think what I am going to do is write an editorial about wireless security (relating it to Christmas presents received) and get it in the local paper. I live in a small town so I know that it will be seen by many people.

I could remind them to read the router documentation, do research, keep things updated and maybe even contact their local community college or school system to see if they offer classes on home wireless security.

What do you think about that idea??

by hal 9000

Of your current problem, if you want to use that bit "That I'm Still Paying For" in your article you're welcome to use it.

While the Legal advice was directly related to AU it applies just as well to the US although the Laws might be slightly different or called different names it still applies.

It was some really good advice which far too many people don't know about or even think about.

Just make sure that you do not get roped into writing a permanent column on things related to IT. :p

Col ]:)

by hal 9000

It's home users who mostly fall into this category as they'll have a permanent connection with their computers on 24/7 and wonder why the are taken over and used as "Bots" as they really know no better.

Currently things like Wireless Routers are being sold by the chain-stores as easy/cheap Networking devices that [b]Do Not[/b] require any expensive cabling to be run and they are all Plug & Play according to the Salespeople who themselves only know what the sales broacher's say. :)

Most of us IT Pros don't read the manuals so the "Home User" is even less likely to as most of them just do not understand the terminology, things like WEP, WAP may as well be in a foreign language to them for all the use that it is. Yesterday I dropped off an insurance job and found a router that had not been upgraded since it was bought and even then the current Firmware was 6 months out of date but the owners had been told that they had a "Router" so they where safe. They didn't think that way when I left but at least it was all updated. :p

Col ]:)

by sleepin'dawg

I have a little routine I put myself through every Sunday. Defrag the hard disk, check for driver updates, run a registry scan, run Spybot S&D plus Spyware Blaster and do all the other tiny little computer house keeping chores that should be done but we tend to delay doing. Some of these things like the registry scan are done maybe only once every few weeks and some of the others are done almost daily but Sunday nights when the football games are mostly over is my time for doing all this scut work. When I tell the average home user what I do, I'm often laughed at but I'm the guy they come whigning to when there boxes go on the fritz. I have a little framed quotation which hangs on my wall and I point to it when they show up, "Bad planning on your part, does not automaticaly constitute an emegency on my part." I will give them some advice and sources of information to help them but unless it is a very good friend, I will not lift a finger to physically involve myself to assist them otherwise, I'd never be left alone. You must have encountered those individuals who get a glazed look in their eyes when you ask them, "What antivirus program and fire wall are you using?" or "When was the last time you defragged your hard disk or scanned your registry?" Too often the answers are, "Uh, never." or "Uh, what do you mean." or "Uh, I'm supposed to do all that? Why?" It would be comical except too often these responses are ellicited from experienced users. Newbies on the other hand might be forgiven if only they would take a little effort to acquire a bit of knowledge but they seldom do as it's "too hard and confusing" or "I don't have the time for all that." Pity but don't expect me to make up for your shotfall in intelligence. BTW I do my little house keeping routine while reading or watching TV. You have to do something beside watch the screen while running defrag or a registry scan. I only lose a few minutes of enjoyment and on my current box, have never encountered an error message or the BSOD.

[b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

by koltpollo

I received a call from a local pharmacy today:

A medicare rep is coming to town tomorrow to meet with 30 people. This is a small, one stop-light, rural town. They wanted to know if the rep could come sit in our parking lot and get on our network using his wireless laptop. He actually told the pharmacy worker that he had drove around town looking for networks. He found one at the local lawyers office but was locked out.

At first i thought maybe they confused our public internet access room for what they were asking, but no, that was not the case. I just couldn't believe the nerve of the rep.

by webwolf

If you want to be a ?good neighbor?, then by all means let them know of the risk. And, if you have the knowledge you should also offer to help them secure their connection. If you don?t have the knowledge, try offering them a referral to a company or individual who can help them.

To all those who think this is "giving away your professional services", I chose to humbly disagree. These are your neighbors and hopefully people you are on good terms with and don?t mind helping. If they feel the same way toward you they will also be considerate and respectful of your profession and your time. This is the Season of giving for goodness sake!

by supportaaa5

If you want to share it with your friends, just turn on security, and share *that* with them. Just think of the bad things people could do with your net connection...and you would get blamed for it!

by silagy

im torn to i live in paris ky and im a consultant for the city of paris and there are about 180 open wirless networks in the down town area , that number was before christmas , and I would like to write an article in the paper about it but then fingers would point to me for help and i work 48 hours one week at my real job and 38 the next so , i have enough on my hands already

by acavasin

Even though I encrypted and protected when I set up my wireless networks at home and at work (I run a private security firm) I had the same issues as geekchick. To start with, my office occupies the ground floor of a 150 unit appartment building, and there has to be 30 other wireless networks in it. As they pop up (unsecure) on my system, I log in and send a message informing the owner that their network is open to anyone with a wireless device and people are undoubtedly stealing their resources. My message is usually proof enough.

Many then ask for help securing their wireless networks, some thank me, others, well...

I've found I can neither predict nor control the behavior of others, the only thing I can control is myself. So I do.

And while I didn't see any reference in your post concerning "wardriving" let me offer an opinion on that too: It is flat ass, dead wrong. It is, and always will be - stealing - to take something that does not belong to you, regardless of whether the owner misses it or not.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

by acavasin

Even though I encrypted and protected when I set up my wireless networks at home and at work (I run a private security firm) I had the same issues as geekchick. To start with, my office occupies the ground floor of a 150 unit appartment building, and there has to be 30 other wireless networks in it. As they pop up (unsecure) on my system, I log in and send a message informing the owner that their network is open to anyone with a wireless device and people are undoubtedly stealing their resources. My message is usually proof enough.

Many then ask for help securing their wireless networks, some thank me, others, well...

I've found I can neither predict nor control the behavior of others, the only thing I can control is myself. So I do.

And while I didn't see any reference in your post concerning "wardriving" let me offer an opinion on that too: It is flat ass, dead wrong. It is, and always will be - stealing - to take something that does not belong to you, regardless of whether the owner misses it or not.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

by matthew yurksaitis

You make very good points here. Again all one can due in this instance is due dilligence and reasonable effort to alert the others. In regards to wardriving, there has been another ongoing thread on that. I have posted a Blog on Wardriving for those that may have questions on the "legality" of it, or present arguments that it is somehow legal. It might be worth checking out for reference sake.

by wojnar

The scare is a lot more than just hype. If you happen to connect to a medical facility's wireless and get caught, the facility gets a major fine and you could potentially be charged with a felony and get hefty fine.

Most users who had PC's involved with major hacking efforts - including national security - were only aware that their internet access sometimes slowed down. Time to take the heads out of the sand, stop saying 'it couldn't happen to me' and get people to secure their connections.

As my favorite Despair.com poster says - No single raindrop ever thinks its responsible for the flood.

by green_man

If you can identify the homes, I would discretely drop a note in their LETTER BOX indicating that they are open to hackers etc. I would not do this via attaching to their network as this could be construed as hacking and nay make you liable to be sued etc.

I would not however offer to help them as I agree with other posts that you could be held responsible for any future problems.

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