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More interesting than the potential right to secede...

By AnsuGisalas ·
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In the line of duty, I came to look at <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102>Executive Order 6102</a>... and I couldn't help but think "This is a small step for Roosevelt, but a giant leap for Government". Now, I'm not a libertarian, we continental types have a hard time being that, but I would like to hear the opinions on the matter, of those that have them.
In a nutshell, the order forbids US citizens from owning gold coins (or other stockpiles of gold), thus rendering illegal the right to exchange dollars for their nominal worth in gold. It was an outrageous claim that "These here dollars are worth something, on their own".

Incidentally, I was checking whether the gold standard was ended in 1933, 1934 or in 1971... I'm still not certain, really, I just know that the gold standard was no longer relevant to US citizens after 1934.

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Technically

by NickNielsen In reply to More interesting than the ...

The US went off the gold standard in 1971, when Richard Nixon announced that US dollars could no longer be redeemed for gold.

FWIW, private citizens were banned from "hoarding" gold, not forbidden from owning gold coins. There was a limit of up to $100 in gold coins (a substantial chunk of change in a world where a meal could be had for a nickel or a dime), and rare and distinctive coins were also exempted, allowing people to keep their collections.

The end result (the fixed $35/ounce for international gold exchange) provided international financial stability for almost four decades.

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Yea, but gold clauses were scrapped in 1934

by AnsuGisalas In reply to Technically

The ban on bouillon (=bullion) was just to stall people from making runs on banks, as that would be stockpiling - and to collect the stuff off the streets.

On the other hand, the coins would have to legally be put out of circulation pretty quickly, every time someone had more than a hundred bucks worth... and the gold certificates went the same way, so it wouldn't have been very possible to make use of the gold standard by US citizens...

By the way, Nick, what you say is how I understood it too - text I was translating said 1933. Wikipedia seems to have a self-conflict. The entry <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard#Depression_and_World_War_II_.281932.E2.80.9346.29>"gold standard"</a> says it went out in 1933, but the entry <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933_Double_Eagle>"1933 double eagle"</a> and <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102>"Executive Order 6102"</a> both say it's 1971.

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Not completely scrapped

by NickNielsen In reply to Yea, but gold clauses wer ...

In some cases, only suspended. The <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Reserve_Act>Gold Reserve Act of 1934</a> codified Roosevelt's executive order and set the $35/ounce international price. That action set a fixed price for the dollar that endured for almost 40 years and enabled the fixed exchange rates that helped the American economy to become the export leader of the world.

The confusion may be in the distinction between the domestic and international gold standards. Executive Order 6102 scrapped the gold standard for domestic transactions, but the gold standard for international transactions remained until the <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock>Nixon Shock</a> of 1971.

My understanding of how the confiscation was done was all gold coin on deposit in individual banks was exchanged for paper, then melted down into specie and stored at Fort Knox.

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It's interesting stuff...

by AnsuGisalas In reply to Not completely scrapped

both numismatics and the value of money.
Before 1933 the US populace could trust in the value of their coins, on account of the staying value of the commodity gold. After that, and before 1971, they could trust in the value of their coins on account of foreign banks being willing to pay a price not much less than 1/35th of the price of an ounce of gold... providing that gold did not rise in value to a point where trust in the value of the US$ would be put into question.
After 1971 there's no anchors anywhere... and yet, not much more control of speculation than before, it's like we still all think there's an independent basis for the value of "coins", and not just a wishy-washy representation of the interplay of national economies and trade relations...

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bullion, not bouillon, AnsuGisalas

by john.a.wills In reply to More interesting than the ...

or were you being funny?

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What?!?

by AnsuGisalas In reply to bullion, not bouillon, An ...

I thought that was what soup kitchens were all about... gold for bouillon?

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What brought up the right to secede?

by CharlieSpencer In reply to More interesting than the ...

That's one of the few issues where I agree with the Confederate states.

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Well, that's in the Question for the Maxwell thread...

by AnsuGisalas In reply to What brought up the right ...

It's not dead, only sleeping, so feel free to give it a heave.

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I'm not an expert

by NexS In reply to More interesting than the ...

But it sounds like the good ol' US government is getting jealous.

It makes some sense, I mean gold is worth more in different places...

Or my bearings may be upside in...

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