IT Employment

General discussion


Newbie getting discouraged

By max98037 ·
Anybody else out there getting discouraged too?? Ive been working my tail off this past 2 years to become a part of this industry and all I want is to hear is one encouraging thing.
How could the economy be so screwed. One thing I know is that George W will not be getting my vote in '04.

This conversation is currently closed to new comments.

Thread display: Collapse - | Expand +

All Comments

Collapse -

Discouragement and Perspective

by Oldefar In reply to Newbie getting discourage ...

If you read the Micellaneous posts over the past several years you will see a lot of discuouraged US TR members - both those trying to begin a career and those who have decades of experience.

There are several reasons for this. First off, the amount of labor required to support a given level of ICT keeps decreasing. In a fashion similar to Moore's Law, technical expertise becomes codified and moved into the hardware and software at a cost of ICT jobs, or becomes part of the general common body of knowledge and moves to "unskilled" labor. This went relatively unnoticed while ICT grew overall into new areas, but became evident once the market growth slowed.

Next was the unrealistic expectations set during the dot com decade. Fueled by the Y2K issue, ERP and CRM bandwagons, and an apparent Midas touch with anything Internet related, venture capital poured into the IT sectors and salaries skyrocketed. This fueled growth in other areas as well as the newly well off went on buying sprees. Like a house of cards, everything felt the impact when the bubble burst.

Then there is the greed factor. People focus on their own situation, and corporate management has been no exception. Compensation packages and pay differentials between workers and senior management jumped to levels unseen for a 100 years. No one griped as they saw their own salaries grow beyond expectation and so allowed this to occur. Finding a better balance will take time and effort. Meanwhile, the senior management continues to seek better financial performance by reducing head count or outsourcing to lower cost labor to protect their own personal wealth.

The outsourcing is an ongoing trend as old as civilization. What has changed is that technology has shrunk the globe. The impact is felt at an accelerated pace. What used to occur over several career spans now occurs several times within a single career span, which leaves many of us dazed and confused. The eventual result will be a more balanced standard of living globally, which means less of the finite resources for those of us in Western Europe and North America who for years have had more than our share. With 6 billion people, there is a much higher demand on those resources as well.

So what do we do? When I get that figured out I will run for President. Meanwhile, get your own list of needs versus wants squared away and don't let those wants drive your satisfaction with life.

Collapse -

The economy

by Oz_Media In reply to Newbie getting discourage ...

Of any country is what you make it.

HOT DOG STAND (oldie but true)

A guy had a hot dog stand during the great depression. He had signs and banners everywhere advertising his hot dogs, he made up meal deals and business was booming.

Another guy down the street had a donut shop. No signs, no advertising, no deals and business was in the dumps.

The donut vendor saw the hot dog guy putting up another sign (even bigger than before) and asked him how he could be so positive and spend money on advertising when the great depression was on.

The hot dog guy had NO IDEA that there was a depression, his business had been great. Taking the donut vendors words in to mind, he quickly took down his signs and stopped paying for advertising. When business slowed to a trickle, he went to the donut vendor and said;
"Thanks for telling me about the depression, you're right, there really is no business anymore."


Collapse -

Another OM jewel -NOT!

by Passwordchanged In reply to The economy

Was that supposed to provide philosophical solace to the original poster? Is he supposed to go out and put up signs saying "APPS BACKUPS COMM LINES" and that'll help him find work? You need to get off the bong and back into reality OM. I live in a city where there used to be five pages of IT jobs in every Sunday paper, and now we're lucky to see one or two listings, usually for level I help desk or Java developers. The fact is we overhired IT people in the 90s, non-traditional techies came out of the wordwork to try to get their share of high-tech high pay. IT managers built empires instead of solutions, and now they're laying off those well-paid folks and going overseas to make up their IT budget deficits. There are simply too many people trying to fill too few jobs. Will it get better if the US economy takes off again? We'll see. Meanwhile, if you're such a friggin' expert on IT, why not give useful advice instead of spewing useless tripe? I mean gee, don't you have some bitching about the French to do in another thread.

Collapse -

You definitely need a riase.

by Oz_Media In reply to Another OM jewel -NOT!

You obviously, have NO idea as to how to find work. Don't feel so flattered that your IIT economy has died. It's the same everywhere, unless your in India I suppose.

It in BC is just as bad, it's just that 99.9% of IT staff I've met have little or no presentation skills and basically ask other bummed out IT staff like yourself what the market is like.

The guy who posted this thread doesn't need your deflating and depressing outlook on an industry that you feel has neglected you.
My point, in case you don't understand or haven't heard the Hot Dog story before, is that by listening to others that are suffering, you're not going to progress.

I used to be a member of the Vancouver Board of Trade. When I was behind one of Vancouvers most successful entrpreneurs at the lunch buffet, I asked if I could pay for his meal. he was a little stunned that a young upstart wanted to buy a multi-millionaire his lunch, but he accepted.
During luch, he asked me WHY I wanted to buy him lunch.

I said, why would YOU buy ME lunch? What do you have to learn other than I'm trying to get past bearocratic red tape and start a business. Whereas by buying HIM lunch, I managed to get several relevant issues resolved and definiately gained from meeting him.

People that are in need, dno't need to be told everyone elseis in need as well.

It's the same thing here, people wine about the job market in IT. I have NEVER fhad a problem finding work. I find that although there are hundreds if not thousands of qualified IT staff (many MUCH more qualified than me)but they have NO IDEA how to find work. There are opportunities everywhere, you just need to create them and stop waiting for the handout.

The local paper today has NO IT postings, but I know several companies that are looking for IT staff.

Don't blame your personal failure on the market, it's BS. Blame yourself for not having the ability to go out and creat opportunities.

Just because one guy says there's a depression, don't take your signs down, he's a fool.

Collapse -


by Oz_Media In reply to You definitely need a ria ...

"Is he supposed to go out and put up signs saying "APPS BACKUPS COMM LINES" and that'll help him find work?"

YES. How else do you expect to find work?

Collapse -

Stop The Presses - Hold The Phone - and

by maxwell edison In reply to You definitely need a ria ...

Katie Bar The Door.

I agree with Oz.(But not his delivery.)

If your invited to a recession or a down-turn, decline to attend. You may have to focus your efforts in a different direction and possibly get a little creative, but suffering through a recession is a matter of choice.

Do a little research and discover how many people got WEALTHY during the Great Depression of the 30s.

Your outcome is most likely a direct result of your outlook.

Collapse -

Gonna fall over

by Oz_Media In reply to Stop The Presses - Hold T ...

Can I have a chair please, I feel a little light headed. OOOOOOOO, I feel wooooooooooooozy, uh......I don't know what to say, Max.

Have a nice weekend?

Collapse -

Apples and Oranges

by Oldefar In reply to Stop The Presses - Hold T ...

OzMedia and Maxwell Edison have both hit on some truths, but seem to have missed what those truths are.

Oz was not selling IT - he was literally and figuratively feeding a resource, in particular focusing on that person's prestige. Call it salesmanship, brown nosing, sucking up, or business sense it still had nothing to do with IT specific skills. As for advertising - you still have to appeal to perceived need and there has to be an acceptable medium of exchange.

Maxwell is correct on attitude. A positive attitude can be destroyed by association with negative attitudes. However, a bit of reality has to be applied as well. Those who got rich during the Great Depression did not do so by sticking with a dying trade and holding a positive attitude. They found new, NEW opportunities. Attitude won't change reality - the Titanic still sank, and Hitler still lost the war, Gore did not win the last election, and the Cowboys are 0 and 1.

Collapse -

I don't think I missed too much

by maxwell edison In reply to Apples and Oranges

And I think that attitude can indeed change reality. No, it can't change history, as in the case of a sunken ship, but it can change the future, as in the case of Sir Ernest Shackleton's Endurance expedition and a doomed ship, which is one of the greatest survival stories of all time. So yes, attitude can indeed change, or more accurately, mold the future.

However, one has to be able to adapt to the whatever circumstances he/she faces. If a person waits for outside forces to meet his/her needs and desires, the wait may be very long and, most likely, very disappointing.

In the case of job scarcity in any given field, one must either wait for things to change, become among the best in the field to fill the fewer spots available, or change focus. It may be true that a person has his/her heart set on working in IT, but there are only so many spots available.

I spent well over a year after a layoff (13 years ago) doing something totally unrelated to IT, and I was so successful at it that I almost continued permanently. It is true that if opportunities don't obviously present themselves, one can make his/her own opportunity. It's all in the right mindset.

Collapse -

But of course. . . .

by maxwell edison In reply to I don't think I missed to ...

...if you really don't believe this, you'll be right.

But if you do believe it, you'll still be right.

Related Discussions

Related Forums