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No Salary Listed?

By EMJ ·
Is it normal practice that salaries (not even a range) be listed on a job posting (online or in the newspaper)? Or is this a bad sign?

After almost 4 months being unemployed, opportunities seem to be coming out of the woodwork. There are consulting companies calling me, and I'm getting interviews from the resumes/cover letters I've sent in response to job postings.

One consulting company, who offered me a contract to start on Monday in a town about an hour away from where I live, called me back after I declined it due to the distance to tell me the manager *created* a position for me in a town 20 minutes away. Of course, that same week, I also have an interview for a full-time position and I'm awaiting a call back from another position for which I already interviewed.

How does one handle the influx when it arrives without missing out any opportunities? I asked the consulting company could they push my start date back a week due to my interview (I was honest with them, that's the only way I know how to be), and they said they'd get back to me.

It's nice to know that people are finally taking an interest in me and my skills, but I hope I make the right choice (and have the opportunity to even MAKE one).

Thanks for listening to my ramblings.

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An annoying practice

by gralfus In reply to No Salary Listed?

I always found it somewhat ball-less of employers to not list a starting wage, and especially when they ask me what I expect to get. They already know what they want to pay out, so why not list it? It tells me that they want it all for nothing.

I had a couple call me back because I left off the salary expectation. They didn't call back again after I gave it to them. Gutless wonders couldn't just be up-front and say "We want to pay you X amount of dollars for this job. Interested?"
Instead they want to take the lowest bidder.

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Other side of the coin

by TheChas In reply to No Salary Listed?

There are many reasons that salary is not listed in job postings.

If the posted salary is too attractive, the company gets far too many resumes to review.

If the posted salary is low, the company may miss out on a great candidate who requires just over their "standard" range.

Even though most companies have a structured wage scale based on a number of quantitative factors, they guard this data better than "trade secrets".
They don't want employees finding out that position "X" pays "Y" dollars more than they are making.

I was once in a "hiring" position.
We knew that our allowable pay range was on the low end, and definitely did NOT want to publicize that information.
Even in the 80's, we were getting over 100 resumes for each opening.
Unless a candidate looked VERY interesting, we tossed every resume that did not include salary history or expectations.

We did not want to waste our or the candidates time if we could not afford them.

And yes, part of the "goal" for human resources is to hire new employees at the lowest possible wage.

I know that my management, back then, was reluctant to allow me to hire candidates that already were earning near the top of our pay scale.


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Too common

by Oz_Media In reply to No Salary Listed?

MUCH too commone to be respected.

I see this from a few different 'types' of employer.

a) Why offer $60,000 when the guy may apply and request $40,000 due to desperation and need to find employment, underhanded and not very honest way to employ your team members.

b)He WOULD have offered $60,000 but nobody else posted a salary so why should he? Sometimes they don't know why they do this but are simply following the format.

I found that when I was hiring an operations manager in Oregon, I posted a salary range even though nobody else had. The next week, almost ALL the postings had salaries on them.

Many people just follow th eformat. Much like MANY documents yuo will see in your travels, gee haven't I seen that before? People use templates or standard formulas. That's why I created a unique resume style (although I picked it up from an associate), it REALLY stands out and helps get you noticed. Beside EACH job reference, insert the company's logo in full color. It REALLY helps people associate with your work history at a quick glance. They MAY not recognize 'Call Net Canada' but you slap the Sprint Canada logo on there ad it is recognized instantly.

I think many employers have something to hide, others are just trying to look cool and follow the pack. Decide what YOU are worth and what YOUR skills are worth. Then find out what the ersponsibilities are and develop your starting (high) figure based on what they want you to do.

Another thing I've done before is just say, salary is negotiable based on the position's requirements. Then in an interview you can negotiate a salary, how do you know how much to 'charge' if you don't know what the job is. Companiers doing this and expecting YOU to name the figure are just wrong, play their game and do the same, be evasive yet interesting.

Good luck with your interviews, it is erally good to hear such a positive post amongst all those who say the sky is falling.

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resume idea

by webdvlpr In reply to Too common

what I a great idea to put a company logo on the resume under references! I'm currently employed, but one never knows what the future holds!

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by EMJ In reply to No Salary Listed?

So, when they ask me how much I want, I should just reply "What do you think I'm worth"? Salary negotiations can be tricky, especially when you have no idea of the starting point. Basically, this is a *Jr.* Systems Administrator position, for a non-profit. Looks like a good opportunity for me to learn some new skills, but I don't want to be scraping the barrel salary-wise. I do look to other bennies beyond salary when making a decision about a job, like tuition reimbursement, covering the costs of certification training and tests, 401K, etc., etc. I know the absolute minimum salary I can work with, but they don't know that. I figure I will start high, and negotiate from there. Thanks for the feedback.

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Good start

by Oz_Media In reply to Thanks

I'd be somewhat careful though. Say what YOU think you're worth (your high number)and then add, of course being a non-profit orgnization, salary negotiation is dependant on may issues such as job duties and of course benefits that may add value to your position.

This shows that you what you COULD make but understand tha this is a jumior position, if responsibilities are resonable and benefits are decent you MAY work for less.

You're not cutting yourself off or closing a door this way, nor are you selling yourself short as you know what you SHOULD be making based on the industry average.

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With non-profits...

by mlayton In reply to Thanks gets a little trickier in my experience. Non-profits generally don't post salary because they are non-profits, which generally means that either a) they can't pay standard going range or b) their purse strings are controlled by a board of directors who seldom agree on what someone is worth. However, if you can make a case for what you are worth, they will generally find a way to make it work if you are the best candidate. Certainly, if they are willing to front tuition reimbursement & training and certs, and the 403(b) is alright, count all that as part of the package, especially if it's a non-profit "cause" you can get behind. This position may have an added benefit if you can find corporations to donate stuff, you may get to play with some of the latest and greatest. Don't count on that, though - my last non-profit I was still trying to convince them of the benefits of a firewall. :-(

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Don't tell the democrates - according to them its bad

by JimHM In reply to No Salary Listed?

Don't tell the democrates that the economy is starting back up again.

But - yes that has become a normal event, most don't post even a range. That way they can see the highest and lowest canidates for the position. Apply and when they want to set up an interview ask them the salary range - not in your range, say thanks but not in the salary range you are looking for. Then send a thank you note to the HR.

But its normal today.

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by dwdino In reply to No Salary Listed? is based on the rule that, "whoever lists price first, loses".

When working on compensation, both the hirer and hiree attempt to not state a solid figure as the first to do so loses.

So employers don't list salary ranges because they want to first feel out the candidate and let him/her state the salary requirements. If the candidate states too high, "nice to have met you, we will be in touch". If the candidate is too low, "your hired".

I do not worry if a job listing does not list salary. I arm myself with knowledge of similiar jobs responsibilities and compensations. Then, when the debate begins. I reference other companies and force the hirer to state the beginning wage. Most of the time, if I can get the hirer to list compensation, I can get what I want. If I list compensation, I have gotten screwed.

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The interview works both ways.

by DC_GUY In reply to No Salary Listed?

It is common practice for the organization to put the first number on the table. For all the reasons listed. They have their own internal rules, and they also have a much narrower range of what they can offer than the applicant's range of what he can accept.

Of course, "common business practices" are becoming less common as a new generation of business leaders takes command. We watched these people cheat, smoke, and daydream their way through school, learning Transactional Analysis instead of math and history, being promoted with a D average to the next grade to avoid "emotional damage," then graduate from college with a fifth-grade reading ability. It's no wonder that few of them have the skills to run a business.

Stick to your principles. Flat out tell them that it's customary for the organization to make the first offer and you expect them to follow common business practices. If they are this contrary and hard to get along with at the interview, do you really want to work for them?

If the company refuses to suggest a figure and insists that I go first -- and I think they are worth pursuing anyway -- I always say, "Well, I'd be really happy to start at $150,000. Does that work for you or would you like to make a counter-offer?" By adding a touch of levity you can avoid turning it into an argument, yet you make the point that you have confidence in your qualifications and believe you deserve to be in the upper salary range. Many interviewers will be pleased to find a candidate who is willing to stand up for himself without being angry or confrontational. Others won't, but as I said before, do you really want to work for those guys? The interview is a screening process for both parties. Use it.

Be EXTREMELY careful about using corporate logos on your resume. Those are registered trademarks and/or copyrighted material. The probability is zero that you have a legal right to use them to promote your OWN business, even if your business is simply to find a salaried job. Strip that stuff off of your document immediately and avoid a lawsuit. If you don't want to take my word for it, call Legal Aid and spend $25 for a professional opinion. But don't put it off.

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