Obama "acted stupidly"

The Cambridge police acted stupidly.

It's hard to argue they were smart. You haven't succeeded yet.

I don't think I've ever seen "cretin" and "tosser" used in the same post before!

Good show! :^0

So if teh police ID him and recognize photos on teh wall of him they will then leave withotu confirming the address on his ID, they will not call it in to conform he is who he says he is etc?

What planet did you come from?

NOBODY here has suggested simply walking away from the scene without properly confirming his ID, unfortunately that's not what police did, were said to be doing nor EVER do.

You should team up with Deadley Ernest to write screen plays for police comedies.

Bottom line is he has but ONE legal obligation in such a situation, provide ID, that's it, end of story.

The police take his ID, confirm it, make sure he has no outstanding warrants or anything where he needs to be taken in, they then return to teh station alone and fill out their paperwork.

If after that time he goes and slays his wife, it's not their fault, they did all they could within their legal power, he posed no real threat to anyone, uttered no threats to anyone but became antagonistic and ittitated with their presence, just as anyone else does.

The cops made a stupid move that's all. To see so many people defending police as if they never act incorrectly, would never push it too far or cross teh line of their duty is laughable, obviously people who have never seen a police officer outside of a community blockwatch.

When Obama does step up and say he was wrong for saying the police acted stupidly, THEN he will have apologized. I know that is a difficult concept for you to grasp.

As for last picked, sorry, I have no frame of reference to know what that was like. I was always in the first group to get picked, having lettered 9 times, I was damn good. B-)

And you would have been chosen last, not because you weren't captain, but because you just suckedass. Bet class reunions are no walk in the park for you, huh?

Is that's it's absolute bullshlt.

"People saying the cop was out of line are either defending TheObama..."

Absolute 100% garbage! The ONLY reason YOU posted this thread to begin with was because of Obama, if not you probably would have posted it with a view of defense to the professor.

It has f-all to do with race, I agree the race card shouldn't have been played but it's more the focus of how police handles it so poorly that gets me, DE even thinks they did a good job at it!

They entered a house and ID'd a guy who wasn't to happy about having cops in his house, they do it every day. Instead of ignoring his BS and just confirming info, looking for outstanding warrants etc. and then going on their way. They dragged it out into an unprofessional escapade of police vs innocent public.

I don't see how everyone thinks this is so unique and unimaginable. POlice face these exact same issues daily, EVERY single day, they attend a house to ID someone, that person gives them a hard time, doesn't want them in the house argues and calls them names. They just process the ID and move on if there is no reason to detain him any mlonger.

But as Obama made a comment, this is news and Obama was wrong, teh police didn't do anything out of the ordinary etc.

Obviously a group of people who have no idea how the police work on a daily basis and how they are supposed to follow procedure. They are all nice guys that help keep drugs from yoru children's school.

I see you refuse to answer mine. What does that say?

You can try to share as much blame as possible if that gets you through the day, but can you really not bring yourself to be honest about what Obama said and answer the simple question?

yes? no?

Netman - You are right, but all teh police have in such a case is to quickly confirm there is no present danger in teh hime, to receive and process ID and standby for confirmation. Once that confirmatio is received, they must politely leave teh residence.

Just because someone calls in a break-in, it's not always so. I've been called in breaking into my best friends house when he was away and forgot to put food down for teh cats, he called me and asked me to break in. The police came, I gave them ID and they confirmed hwo I was, I gave them my friend's contact info which they didnt' even confirm or call him and they let me go.

If anything later arose, they would have known who I was, when I was there etc.
And what's all tho scrap about a supopsed estranged wife? Are w enow alowe dot just make up scenarios for police to act on without reason? They didn't check for a meth lab either, I suppose that was a big fault, I am not sure if they sniffed for bomb residue either, he could have blown up a building the next day if they hadn't hassled him I suppose.

Delbert: I agre but with the registration issue they are going to check it out thoroughly before letting you go on your way.

I am sur ehe felt it wasn't handled proper;y, as it wasn't.

Perhaps his using STUPID was wrong, because many Americans don't like to hear the President call people stupid unless talking about foreigners, but he wasn't wrong in his comments and that's probably why he said it that way.

To look at your comments, saying "sorry you were offended" instead of "sorry I said that" that simply illusrtated teh difference that choice words make. SO I see you wholly agree with Obama however don't know how ot argue the a point against him without echiing what he did himself, which you are so disgusted by.

And just because SOME muslims have their own interprotation of what their duty to Allah is, it does not make all the other Muslim's bad.
The middle east is horribly misrepresented in out nations, most people there are who we are shown them to be.

Look at Pakistan for example. Most people that have not travelled much, think Pakistan is a big desert full of undeveloped homes, small crusty old dirt buildings, poor people walking around in sari's and repressed women wearing hadscarves or facing a beating.

Reality is the asolute opposite, Pakistan has many cities that are not much different than our own, they just show us the bad side of town to help explain their actions. With CD and DVD stores, computer shops, video arcades, KFC and McDonalds, women wearing hipsters and wife beaters, people listen to western music etc. It's the same for Israel, we are shown bombed out streets and dingy living areas, but they are not much different than us again. They just had their first season of Big Brother Israel, they have mulitlevel malls with foodfairs where teenagers hang out and flirt with each other etc.

But that side is not shown in western news as it is too human, to real and too easily understood by western culture, it would raise issues as to what we are there for and why we are at war to begin with.

During the Christian crusades, a bloody and brutal war against non-Christians, the most horrific acts were carried ouy by groups callign themselves Christians, killing in the name of God. That doesn't make Christians bad nor does it make Cristianity a harmful religion.

Pakistan in reality:

http://environment.research.yale.edu/posts/images/h-n/Isb.jpg

http://globalgeopolitics.net/am2/karachi-downtown.jpg

Develpment now in progress:
http://www.overseaspropertymall.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/executive-towers-in-al-helio-downtown-in-ajman.jpg

You can even stay at the Marriot Hotel Islamabad.

Even in Iraq: Sure teh roller cosaters and amusement parks are shut down due to teh hostilities and occupation in Iraq, but evemn as it has become a post Saddam war zone, there is still signs of a normal city.

Downtown Baghdad http://z.about.com/d/architecture/1/0/t/H/baghdad-grunberg.jpg

McDonalds (with security team outside)
http://bayd.info/dwn/domatus_pic/data/iraq-mcdonalds-security.jpg

These places are not how we are shown them though, and the portayal of people we are shown is also incorrect. i do not contest that the war zones are horrible places wher elives and home s are destroyed due to insurgent presence amongst happy individuals, but the face of th emiddle east as we are shown it , is one fo no progression, no infrastructure, no western cultural acceptance etc.

In reality that all does exist though, which is a problem for many elders and insurgents that want to retain the ancient cultural history, some to the point of extremity.

All I know is, he's got the stuff to prove it in trunks at their house. He showed me that, as well as the love letters he sent my mother while in the Army. I guess those meant nothing tho, since they weren't done in Michigan too.

He even had 3 times he made half-court or better shots in a basketball game in high school. Family and friends of his told me about that.

Of course, I guess that was all probably changed since they didn't have video phones and camcorders back in 1949-1952.

As for reflecting upon myself, I have no regrets. I was picked by to Who's Who both for scholastic as well as musical prowess multiple years, picked to all-district and all-state bands, as well as the National Academy of Science and Oklahoma Junior Academy of Science to present papers, and was voted in by teachers to various societies for my prowesses in music and math and science and physics and chemistry.

So, I won't look down on myself for having chosen not to get sweaty and roll around on a mat with other guys.

Instead, I rode on buses places where girls were getting changed. Ah yes, the sweet innocence of band kids with Jack Daniels on a bus trip. ;)

First let me respond to
"To see so many people defending police as if they never act incorrectly, would never push it too far or cross teh line of their duty is laughable"
I'm sorry you got that impression from my post. The truth is I don't particularly like police and certainly don't defend them as though they never act incorrectly. I know better. I could go on and on with my complaints about how police sometimes behave.

In response to
"And what's all tho scrap about a supopsed estranged wife? Are w enow alowe dot just make up scenarios for police to act on without reason?"

I didn't just make that little scenario up. That exact scenario played out for real here locally a while back. The police department caught a bunch of flack because of it. Everyone was asking why the cops that responded to the break in didn't take more time to thoroughly check the guy out.

"but all teh police have in such a case is to quickly confirm there is no present danger in teh hime, to receive and process ID and standby for confirmation. Once that confirmatio is received, they must politely leave teh residence."
You are probably right about that, I don't know since I'm not a cop. But the point of my first post was that it seems the cops can't win no matter what they do. The get chastised if they go beyond what they are required to do and they get chastised if they don't and something bad happens later on.

be checking out the surroundings but focussed on the perp until sure they were NOT a danger. You said that was BS, I've expanded the original comment to explain why they can focus and reason as to why they would stay focussed.

A possible perp is like a wild big cat, it can strike at any time and is simply waiting for your focus to waiver to give them 'the edge' - you do not take your eye of the danger you can see; you leave the rest of the area up to your partner to watch your back. The same applies in the military, the lead guy in the file watches the target area and approach while the others watch the surrounds.

The cop would've kept very focussed on Gates until happy Gates isn't a danger. The more Gates screams and shouts, the more of a potential danger he presents himself as.

That's the realities of the situation and the way good cops are trained in good training course.

Naturally, if the situation is one of those oddities where you don't have a partner or back up on hand, you handle it a lot different and you don't get that close by yourself.

edit to add - On the ID side, he has a legal obligation to provide a VALID ID, whatever that be in the local jurisdiction. The most commonly accepted valid IDs, like a drivers' licence also have an address. From the reports, once the cop sighted a valid ID he started to withdraw, but Gates followed while yelling abuse. Creating a whole new situation.

I was trying to make a point...perhaps hopelessly.

Fact is, we (the United States) do things we lead our citizenry to think that only other nations do.

As I've said before elsewhere, I grew up with a Jordanian pediatrician and a Indian optometrist. My family never taught me to like or dislike people because of race or religion.

Of course, a lot of people around me had biases...being rural, backwood America is where I was raised. I learned some things in my youth I had to grow out of. But, I'm a better, more understanding adult for having been on what I now know is the wrong side in my beliefs then.

I see a lot of inflexible views in a lot of Americans. And, it takes me to a point where I think this:

If you took an American, made them Muslim, took away their keyboard and gave them a used sandy AK-47...what would that make them in screaming their beliefs are so right and everyone else is wrong?

Plus, I agree. And you don't even have to go back to the Crusades to find Christians who killed for their beliefs...just go back 30 years and start looking at the assaults on and murders of abortion doctors in the United States in the call for what is "God's will" and all that.

People who claim life is so precious...taking a life. How...contradictory.

what does love letters have to do with the number of times someone lettered in sports?

The only thing I can think of is they had letters in middle school in his day?

"Instead, I rode on buses places where girls were getting changed. Ah yes, the sweet innocence of band kids with Jack Daniels on a bus trip."

OK, I just have to ask this. Did any of those band girls ever say "and this one time at band camp I stuck a flute up my....."?

it. The Education Institution IDs I've seen have had name and date of birth, but never the address.

As to apologising for disturbing him, maybe that was hard to do due to Gates' shouted abuse. Instead of interrupting, he may have simply chosen to leave. We don't know.

What we do know is Gates couldn't let it be, he had to follow and shout more abuse. he acted like posterior hole and got treated like one.

Maybe the cop should have just walked off and flicked him a finger for all the abuse. maybe he should have just ignored him. A lot of that will depend on what was actually said.

Either way, Obama should never have commented on the matter at all.

Nope, but we did get interesting peep shows and the occassional wild truth or dare game that involved pressing body parts to the window of a bus for passing traffic...as well as games that involved flashlights and shadow shows

Yes, I was once VERY crazy. lol :^0

He radioed Harvard University police...not called.

As well, his (Crowley's) own statement said that Harvard University police were on-scene.

BTW, go check out the property assessments for those properties. Those single family homes on Ware are owned by the "Harvard President and Fellows, Harvard Properties, Inc." or something to that effect.

If that is private university property, then why were city police called in rather than University police who would have jurisdiction on university property?

Anyways...cop can do no wrong...citizen is always wrong...oops...charges dropped!

"didn't take more time to thoroughly check the guy out."

That is one instance where police may have changed the outcome but being more dilligent, that doesn't excuse the actions of police in this case though.

teh police game is a game of tug of war, half teh people think police are TOO involved, the other half say teh police should have becoem mroe involved, that line is usually divided with instugators and accused on one side, victims and fearful being victimized on the other.

For such reasons we have laws and police have procedures. If police follow procedure there is one correct way to handle such situations, regardless of what arises during teh process. If teh situation changes, the police refer to the next procedure to address it properly.

Just because one procedure was not followed and people complain that it leads to failure, it does not excuse other officers for going outside of normal procedure and dragging out investigations in an incorrect manner.

I find the internet full of rent-a-cops (as I call them) and keyboard lawyers (as my brother calls them), but few refer to actual legality or procedure rather than personal 'beleif' of right or wrong.

It's like when I trained security staff, I'd have guys with flashlights clipped on belts, handcuff pouches etc turn up. They's stand at attention as if I was a drill seargeant etc. They had no idea how to handle situations and were the last people hired, first fired everytime.

We got into more lawsuits over rent a cops and wannabes with no idea that we did from the more passive ones who were criminology students. the crim students wold make it into law or the RCMP, the rent a cops would end up working for Vancouver Police Department, where anything goes and is easily hidden.

I seeit all here too, people with no idea of procedure or law, but plenty of movieland opinions. It just gets tiring and it gets harder and harder to tell people's mentality and intent when reading such debates.

anything not from your way of being raised/educated/informed seems to bring out the "you're wrong" card.

When I was in high school, women still played half-court, 3-on-3 basketball in Oklahoma.

Times change in life...and sports.

I'll ask him to give me a list and dates for your satisfaction sometime.

I asked a valid question to understand what you had said.

In the 80's up to today, there is not any way that someone could get that many varsity letters while in high school. Maybe he included college? Who knows? Not something that even YOU should be taking as an insult?

Just stated fact. And, I'm not afraid to talk to my father and get you more in-depth information about when and where.

If anyone is acting a victim, it's you.

You'd think by the way you criticize others at every turn that the world had given you AIDS, beat your dog, and stole your milk at lunch through grade school.

And the obvious point I've tried to make to you all along is this (in this instance):

You criticize Obama for not having all the information before he said something one way or the other...yet you have done the same thing over and over for months for which you have talked down about in regards to him.

Oh sure, he's on TV. He's the president. He gets press more than you.

However, ask anyone at CBS Interactive, or Techrepublic more particularly, if they know the number of countries by IP that hit their webserver daily.

I bet your comments get around 10,000 reads per day and probably from better than a dozen countries. I can name 8 off the top of my head for sure:

USA
Canada
England
Scotland
Ireland
Australia
New Zealand
Holland

And probably if you ask anyone from the UK, they will tell you that they would depend more on information from someone like you and I rather than a source like "the beeb" or NBC or CNN (news outlets). They want real things from real people, not spin and hype they have to take with a grain of salt about what Obama says or does.

BTW, go read the actual police report at The Smoking Gun.

Interesting he gave ID to the officer, yet the officer had stayed in the house even after Harvard University police had gotten there to university-owned property.

Anyways...go on with your TheObama bashing. Maybe if another inept yahoo gets in office, it will be enough reason for me to take my saved money and exit north by northeast and let you stay here to let Reaganomics and the "trickle-down" theory of economics ruin this country completely.

" photos on the wall are not likely to be seen by an officer concentrating on a troublesome person."

You instantly act as if there is one cop and another perhaps with his finger in his nose, staring on blankly. An officer won't execute such an entry alone, his partner will ALSO be looking all over the home for clues, suspects, weapons and other issues that may affect their safety or offer some answers, such as photo's, I know this because I have also taken the investigators test with quick recognition of room contents.

When I corrected you, you then started on about second officers and how the officer engaged in conversation is more focused on the suspect than on his surroundings, which of course is completely untrue, the officer questioning the suspect is constantly assessing and taking in his surroundings also.

you only started down this road because someone noted that the officers did not take notice of pictures on the wall, which you know is page 1 of their training manuals. However as you can't accept another opinion when you post, because you feel a need to defend your own opinion as being whole and right without exception, you took him to task on it and made up some lies to support your not mentioning it in your own comments.

It was as if you didn't mention it but had already considered and dismissed it, which you hadn't, as proven in your quick dismissal when I reiterated it.

Face it DE, pants down, red face, you were simply wrong on a moot point, someone pointed it out and now you have made more of it than you needed to, making it even harder for you to swallow and accept as an oversight.

Hoe f'in stupid do you think people are here? Some of us can read for ourselves and see exactly where your little defense mechanism shot up.

Now you are coming up with something else again, as always, just because you made a stupid point and couldn't accept correction on it, even though you know very well you were wrong to overlook it.

You SHOULD know anyway, as you say you have studied law/criminology or at least understand the legal system and procedures.

No need to carry on with more BS, digging yourself deeper, I quoted your original comments for you, it's pretty clear what you said and meant you can pretend to have said something else but your own words prove otherwise.

You could have just said, "Oh yeah, oops" and not looked like an idiot, but as you prefer to draw it out into something it isn't, now you lust sound like a knob and will continue to do so the more you carry on.

You did it before with the Gitmo bay debate where you ran on a tangent and had to changed your opinion numerous times to try and save face, that it didn't make ANY sense anymore.

When opened as a separate discussion you quickly backpeddled into agreement with the masses who saw it as wrong also.

Are we going to do that again just to satisfy your manhood and make you feel like you didn't make a mistake? Will it be like this every time someone calls you out on BS?

university land? Probably the city police were called because it was city property. If it had been any area they had no jurisdiction over they wouldn't have responded.

The charges were dropped because of political interference. They were dropped some time AFTER Gates was taken in and a few political calls made. If the cop was in the wrong Gates would have lodged an unlawful arrest suit by now, he hasn't as he knows he can't win it.

edit - Again politics out bids legality and what's right.

That usually, university owned property is overseen and jurisdiction of their duly appointed enforcement division.

Since Harvard had their own police department, one would think that calls primarily go to their own body of enforcement, then local or county would be called in by them if needed.

that is not the case, since your ran to her post like a fly to sheet to rejoice in the attack on me since she can't come to terms with the reality of this situation.

So, only interested in me "tossing"? I didn't know you cared.

is all you do.

Your father getting [b]20 varsity letters[/b] has NOTHING to do with my reply to the mini Oz, but you threw it in there anyways. [i](that is an unrelated tangent)[/i]

When I asked how he could get 20, since there are not that many seasons NOW, you pretend to be attacked unfairly. When I was in high school, the max you could get was 15 varsity letters, assuming you flunked one grade, and so had 5 years of high school. Take away from that freshman and JV teams are not eligible for a Varsity Letter, and only an elite freshman would get to play on the Varsity team, let alone letter in it.

If that logical breakdown of the reality of getting a Varsity letter makes you look bad, you have to ask yourself why? Is it because I am making up stats, or you think your [b]completely unrelated[/b] details are lacking in authenticity? If my breakdown of the athletics program is in error, you are also welcome to show me where I was wrong.

Or you can [b]pretend[/b] to be attacked again.

The police in the case got pissed off and hauled a man down to the station and charged him for "disorderly conduct", a charge that didn't apply and was dropped. Sounds like behaving stupidly to me. Obama was right on the call, but wrong to say so.

What's intriguing is how all the police-worshippers from Michigan to Australia are jumping up and saying that if you irritate an officer, he's perfectly justified in making you suffer. It's true that they can usually get away with that, if they want to push it, but it's wrong.

The proper "conservative" attitude to have, if we define conservative as one who believes in restraining the powers of government in favor of the rights of citizens, is to be very suspicious of armed authority, and its power to make big men out of little ones. Instead, conservatism has turned in a flag-waving contest, where patriotism is suspect if you don't cheerlead for police, improvisational wiretaps, and torture.

Here are two links for your contemplation:
http://www.reason.com/news/show/135039.html
http://www.slate.com/id/2223379/

Actuyally JCk, while I agree with your comments about their allowances and despite JD's illusions of what probable cause means, to say "you ask to have the officer's supervisor come down...not tell him about "yo mama"."

That doesn't work. No officer in any county state or country I have even heard of would call his supervisor if you were to ask.

They would instruct you to go to teh police department and file a claim. They don't actually work as you would think one rationally would. First of all they'll say he's busy, secondly that he is not availalbe, thordly that he won't take a call seriously unless it was an urgent matter fourthly....etc. Excuse after excuse as it demeans their own authority.

Rightly SHOULD they? of course, but will they? Of course not.

The best you will do, after insisting several times to speak with the supervisor, is that the officer will give you a card, usually blank (without his badge or name on it) and tell you to go file a complaint.

We don't live in Mayberry, unfortunately.

[i]that doesn't excuse the actions of police in this case though.[/i]

... arresting someone who broke the law?

He was fine while inside his home, but once he stepped over the threshold, he is "in public" and has an obligation to behave in an orderly fashion and not disturb others.

Failure to do that will get you a ticket, or arrested. There are hundreds of thousands of such arrests in this country every year.

If he had stayed inside his house when the police left, He could have stomped, screamed, flipped them off through the window, or whatever, and he'd not have been arrested.

Nothign Obama said was censored. IN fact it was not half as rude as what you arr attempting to suggest he said.

Obama has no reason to apologize for saying they acted stupidly, they did and police procedure would not support them unless they inflate the mental state of the accused.

He apologized for his choice of words, meaning perhaps he should have said they acted outside of normallu acceptable polic eprocedure, or perhaps used poor judgement, he has no reason to apologize for calling them on a mistake, especially when he admitted he was only speaking based on what he had heard at that point.

YOu expect too much out of Oama and forget too much aout ush, no mattet what little games you want to play or what names you want to throw at me, your true colours shine here like a rainow, I don't need to attack you, you dug your own hole and can't clim out without changing the subject or flaming me over it.

Even when he agrees that he has said it incorrectly, you STILL have issue with it. And you call me simple and argumentative. Get real, who do you REALLY think you are foolign anyway?

I didn't see anything where he was in a public place, I know he went outside but that doesn't mean he also left his yard and entered public property.

I haven't dug for a police report, facts mean squat on TR with everyone's rpedetrmined opinions.

I'd like ot see yruo reactions if it was Bush that commented and a white guy that was charged. You don't come across as people who would have a consistent opinion in such a case.

I don't think anyoen actually reads JD's posts and bases any judgement of Obama on them except that JD is deluded and fixated on Obama.

True, people around teh world don't listen to CNN< but most others have far mreo realistic and accurate news sources locally that they can rely on, without US network drivel and what peers with an obvious bone to pick have to say.

I have plenty of friends around the world taht I keep in contact with and I don't know anyone that relie son US ased forums for such info, in fact they are usually the ones on US forums setting miguided people straight.

It's like teh whoel Bush issue, people around teh world saw truth that Americans refused ot acceot, some even don't today, but teh truth came out and the lies surface and America finally gets SOME idea of what a clown he and his administration were, at least what hasn't still been kept from eth US public. Despite the fact that you feel you get teh straight deal, and despite the fact that you feel US news woul dnto mislead public, they are known for carefully editin stories to make them more US supportive. They print news that sells paper an dcrateas controversy either positive or negative as they decide. They treat people like puppets and yuo all dance around in the end of the strings thinking it's all right and just.

Teh fact is, when the rest of the world's nes outlets buy video footage and air teh entire scene for people, then the US buys the same footage and edita it to remove anythign unseemly of Americans or American soldier mistakes, it's pretty clear, you guys get a small taste of teh real picture, a taste that has plenty of added sweetener and anything tart removed.

You can call others what you like, but others know first hand that you are speaking based on a controlled and carefully displayed story, not just raw news and facts as they are captured.

Bush would simply stand their and lie in whatever way he was instructed to lie, without apology.

"Gates, 58, maintains he turned over identification when asked to do so by the police. He said Crowley arrested him after the professor followed him to the porch, repeatedly demanding the sergeant's name and badge number because he was unhappy over his treatment."

I have seen it, done it numerous times and the end result is the same EVERY TIME, even here.

With city cops, I'll excuse the much better trained RCMP, they will never offer their name or badge number when asked. You have to repeatedly ask them and even then you are lucky to be given a blank card with the department's address and phone number on it, NEVER a badge or name though.

They use such a technique to pi$$ you off and have you follow them to their car, where they offer you no info but a blank card, will not give you a pen (now that you are not in your home or vehicle) and then arrest you for disordely conduct if you don't like it.

In a pretty world of rainbows and lollipops, a police officer would instantly produce such information when asked, but a reality it is not.

You MUST offer them ID instantly, which apparently Gates had done in this case, though verbally abusve at the same time. But when asked ot reciprocate, piggers feel they are above the law that way. I've seen it fought in court numerous times, I have argued and fought for the info myself and been arrested for the same, I have seen OTHERS do it and get arrested, it's a fact of the poorly trained pig life.

In Vancouver we get a lot of it because they are turned down by the RCMP and picked up as city cops, they HATE that and begrudge the world for it. RCMP have very strict guidelins and they go WAAAY back in hostory to check you out, they complete profiling that supercedes city profiling by miles, it's a tough racket to get into.

Cops who don't make RCMP often go out and play tough guy instead, only to eventually be suspended or let go for crossing teh line, a line which the RCMP wouldn't trust him to cross to begin with.

It's textook pigger cop syndrome.

Inside your house is "in private", Outside your house is "in public". You cannot shout obscenities from your front porch any more than you can strut around completely naked.

He was asked for ID, which he produced while quite PO'd and he in turn asked for the officer's name and badge number. When the pig left his home he followed him again asking for his name and badge. He was APPARENTLY swearign at teh officers and to be a public disturbance you must be offending others, I did not read where theyu suggested he was offending others or that other people were around his private home on a college campus.

I can stand outside my door and yell whatever I want, it is not illegal until I am bothering others.

You seem to have access to police reports nobody else is, as always you get all the inside info and everyone else is left uninformed.

DD is simply an open ended charge taht allows police to arrest someone for just about anythign they choose, it does nto make it right y any means, especially when tehy KNEW he was already antagonized and refused to cooperate with him while in his home and forced him ot take his argument outside. It's borderline entrapment at that point, if they want to keep an argument in teh house, they should resolve it in teh house instead of ignoring him and having him leave in order to get information that they are obligated to provide as soon as safely possible. (Meanign that if he is out of control or they fear their safety they can cuff him before offering identification).

It happens everywhere, here too, and it's illegal. I've been let off of similar disturbance charged twice because of uncooperative police who ignore you when you ask for their ID. (I always like to know who I am taking to court before they leave too)

because he wasn't finished with his diatribe.

[i]can stand outside my door and yell whatever I want, it is not illegal until I am bothering others. [/i]

Right. Policemen are "others".

[i]DD is simply an open ended charge taht allows police to arrest someone for just about anythign they choose, it does nto make it right y any means, especially when tehy KNEW he was already antagonized and refused to cooperate with him while in his home and forced him ot take his argument outside.[/i]

Forced him? He followed them out to the street and got in their face! They didn't drag him out. He was being provocative and obnoxious and he's damned lucky he wasn't maced or tasered.

There are cops who abuse their authority and power, but these ones weren't among them.

The higher-ups catered to the cry of the "poor victim" and dropped the charges. THAT could be the trigger for something bigger than I want to contemplate!

"Should the cop have let Gates get away with being extremely verbally abusive for several minutes or only a few," as long as he wants ot abuse him, a good cop knows the pulic mainly doesn't like him, will not welcome him and will verbally abuse him, it is part of the duty.

I've seen things like this start out very innocently and teh police reports paint a totally different picture as they must write a report with impact that supports their questionable actions.

A typical scenario would be cop asks for ID and is given insufficient ID, while the accused is trying to explain himself and is being ignored. The cop then asks for better ID, knowing that he is a professor on Cmapus, the accused will then put up an argument as his ID is easily verifiable by campus police and he is well known around the area. He grudgingly provides more ID again while expressing his distaste in the scene the police are making out of it. IN his anger he fires off a few f-bombs and mother shots (all part of the day for any police officer in a free nation). HE then asks teh COP for ID, who ignores him, or perhaps mentions his name and walks away. Accused then follow cop to the car, still callign after him, demanding to see his ID or get a card with his name and badge number on it.

It is a typical situation atht plays out dozens of times around America each and every day, cops are used to it, should be trained to work around it and the cop should have complied with the accused especially after confirming iD.

Now let's look at eth laws that were broken. Man arrives home and front door won't open, walks around rear of house leaving another man on the porch. He then enters the back door with akey, something i am sure everyone here has done before at least once. Common actions and not a sign of suspicious activity. Paranoid neighbour, who may ro may not have had previous issues with him calls police an dreports a man breakign in next door.

By the time the police show up, the guy s already PO'd about teh hassels getting into his house when he finally arrived home, perhaps after a long, tiring day.
Pig arrives, no compassion no understanding of the possible situation just a pig with a chip, as is very common these days. Pig asks for ID and gets it, pig asks for BETTER ID and again gets it but witha mouthful included. Pig realizes he's wasted his time, is PO'd for the call and listening to verbal abuse. He ignores accused please for his ID as EVERYONE wants a badge number when arrested or stopped by police, (how many times have you seen PO'd people being arrested and screaming I want yuor badge number, I'm filing a complaint' blah-blah-blah, except in this case it is a professor and one who knows he has done nothing wrong and is being hassled.

Th ecop is wrong, the cop will always be wrong but he knows he can do no wrong really, hsi department, his police reports and evertythign else will mask anythign he' sdone wrong and simply focus or words that offer more impact to the accused's reaction that realistic.

I've seen them play their games from the courtroom and the front door, they cross teh line more than they toe it, why? Because they can and people will believe them and support them, police aren't like that after all, they are nice and out there to help everyone, they don't develop defensive and poor atitudes.

Crock of shite and they know it but get away with it by making more out of a situation than is needed. You will never convicne me otherwise, I have met and known more cops than most people see in a alifetime. I have partied with them, read their reports, been to court and watched them in action, I have seen them work with the cheif and their lawyers to find the best way otu of a situation, they sidle and pad themselves with peers that will knowingly commit purjury in a courtroom without any hesitation because it is the right thing to do when you are a cop.

I trust city cops about as far as I can throw them when hitting them at 100kmph in my truck.

As you have not been able to defend Obama saying what he did, how he said it, and where he said it, being a stupid thing, you once again go on the attack.

To make it funnier, you go into the same third person rant you snivel about when others do it to you.

To make it even more amusing is the pathetic way even you are blindly defending Obama after your years of "Americans this" and "Americans that" crap that you utter, and then accuse others of bias.

And yes, where you go, jck goes, joined behind the hips.

He followed them out, because he was ignored when he asked the officer for identification. The officer was wrong to walk away and knowingly drag the issue outside, especially when the guy was alreaqdy verbally abusive and loud. It was a STUPID mistake by a dumb cop.

In that situation, yelling at police is one on one, if it bothers others, such as a lady walking her dog or someone trying to sleep right next door, then it becomes an issue of Public Disturbance. Shouting at a cop is NOT an offense unless you are shouting at a cop who is dealing with somebody else, where you will be most likely be charged with obstructing justice.

You are simply WRONG in your interpretation and YES I have seen people plead the exact same case more than a few times myself. As a member of the Canadian Security Assn. I have taught security companies to follow legal regulations.obligations and how to decide when such verbal abuse becomes a disturbance and when it can easily be shut down. We have monthly meetings with local RCMP and other security agencies from across the country to detail and discuss these exact prolems.

In this case the officer should have turned to the man, offered his badge number and name as requested and, should the guy have continued his argument, the officer then should warn the man that he is creating a public disturbance and that if he wishes to continue that way to either move the conversation back inside his home or lower his voice. I have watched a judge explain it to a police officer, the officer did a VERY similar thing and was wrong in doing so, due to other circumstances in the same incident he was eventually suspended with pay.

I don't know why you bother making up these arguments that you KNOW are wrong, unless you actually feel you right by some secret Australian law. Maybe that's why you never became a lawyer, cop or whetever you were looking at by studying law and or criminology, either way I don't care but am never going to accept a theoretical understanding of law or criminology.

I argue a lot of points based on my opinion, however this is not one of them, this is law and I've studied it and seen the results both ways.

[i]Forced him? He followed them out to the street and got in their face! They didn't drag him out. He was being provocative and obnoxious and he's damned lucky he wasn't maced or tasered.[/i]

They ignore dhis requests, which they cannot do legally. When asked for a badge or name, a police officer must do so the instant it is safe to stop and do so. Walking away is not the correct procedure, though the most common as EVERYONE wants a badge number and it's usually some drunk without a hope that is pushing the limits, however that is NOT the case here.

Why do you make this stuff up and state it like fact when it is all pure rubbish?

Tasered him? They'd be in a LOT of trouble for that, you can't just TASE people that are verbally abusive. There is no physical threat to a cop who is walking away from verbal abuse. If you feel theatened by verbal abuse or loud, agressive people, it's a really good thingk you never sought a career in law enforcement, well that an dyour misguided, delusional understanding of law.

Again just more of your absolute rot, talk about unqualified and uncalled for!

[i]There are cops who abuse their authority and power, but these ones weren't among them[/i]

How can you even make that as an assumption?
You have no idea how it was handled besides a police report that they wrote. I am simply commenting on facts based on what they SAY are facts.

Walking away when someone asks you for proper ID is an offense by the police.

As PUBLIC SERVANTS they are oligated to provide that information to the requesting public immediately.

Even if I was just outside the home wand watche dthe event happen, as the officers leave I can ask fo rtheir badge numbers and names and they must provide it for me, just in case I want to bear witness to events or even just for my own interests.

They are obligated to serve the public, the public are not obligated to serve police except for as rquested to properly identify oneself.

Even then, if you have identified yourself properly, you have no obligations to let them stay, search, ask questions etc. unless placed under arrest.

They are NOT judges they are NOT juries they simply asses and determine which offense has occurred if any and then charge the suspect with a crime, beyond that they are simply pigs with a badge and worthy of no respect at all.

People seem to place too much importance on police, its a crappy job that most use as a stepping stone to get a much easier and higher paying job, they are not really the authority they are simply the observers that let the actual authority make decisions based on their observations. Just cops doing a job and not very well at that.

[i]The higher-ups catered to the cry of the "poor victim" and dropped the charges. THAT could be the trigger for something bigger than I want to contemplate![/i]

Bigger than you want to comtemplate? How about that it's simply a result of failed procedure? He asked for ID, which they are obligated to provide, they did NOT do their job properly, which was noted and agreed to and thus charges against him were dropped.

if they take evidence without arrest or wrrant it results in the same thing, don't remember OJ's trial? That was his looophole too.

How is that such a brain wrecker? The cops f'd up, their superiors KNOW they f'd up and the charges wer rightly dropped.

You fabricate your posts from beginning to end. You are either extremely dim and have no idea what you are talking about, or you are simply making it up as you go.

I have never excused Obama, the fact that he commented at all was wrong it's not his place to do so, the fact that he said they acted stupidly I agree to, and obviously so do their superiors who then dropped the false charges thay laid. Obama said it was a poor choice of words, for the overly sensitive and rash American public that's probably true, you need to speak to children like children. for an adult he is callign a spade a spade, or is that also construed as racist by the overly delicate and fragile, such as yourself?

As for attacking America, I STILL think you have a completely screwed up country that, if I were American, I would be extremely embarassed to be in. In fact I would go out of my way to distance myself from the mentally deprived Americn public that is echoed around the world, as MANY TR peers have done already. They accept your problems and issues and see the mental ignorance of those who excuse them while pointing fingers at others. I have a lot of respect for people who see themselves for what they are and not who they say they are.

I feel for Americans with strong minds and good hearts that have to suffer from such a negative world view due to the likes of yourself.

It is only the people like you, who feel America is always right and just, that America is a paradigm of the ideal nation and have all the rights to do as they please in the world that I and most others can digest. There are many normal Americans too, unfortunately the loud and stupid drown out their words.

I have never said otherwise but thanks for making up some BS in your hasty defense so I can reiterate some truth again.

That's the whole thing people don't like about America(ns) you simply cannot admit a mistake, cannot admit a fault and cannot admit ever being wrong.

Even when blatantly incorrect, you will simply ignore the issue and say what someone else in some other nation has done instead.

Unfortunately most of the world is not as uneducated as yourself, or as poorly educated anyway, so they see through people like yourself and just laugh while shaking their heads and thinking 'only in America'.

[i]Victim and tangents is all you do.[/i]

Who is the victim here of the system, TheObama, and anyone who doesn't agree with his views? *points finger at you*

That's one.

[i] Your father getting 20 varsity letters has NOTHING to do with my reply to the mini Oz, but you threw it in there anyways. (that is an unrelated tangent)[/i]

It's 21, first of all. that's all your fingers and toes plus look at your nose.

BTW, you were the one who brought up, and I quote [b]you[/b]:

[b][i]As for last picked, sorry, I have no frame of reference to know what that was like. I was always in the first group to get picked, having lettered 9 times, I was damn good.[/i][/b]

You brought it up, not me...bucko.

That's two flaws in your "logic".

[i] When I asked how he could get 20, since there are not that many seasons NOW, you pretend to be attacked unfairly. When I was in high school, the max you could get was 15 varsity letters, assuming you flunked one grade, and so had 5 years of high school. Take away from that freshman and JV teams are not eligible for a Varsity Letter, and only an elite freshman would get to play on the Varsity team, let alone letter in it.[/i]

let's see:

4 years of high school...assuming that's all he had...cause I can't say if he ever flunked.

6 sports...

6 x 4 = 24

If it was more than a 4 year high school, then it could be higher.

So, you assumed:

a) all schools must only allow 3 seasons of participation like yours
b) all schools had only 5 sports to letter like yours
c) all schools had 4 years of attendance like yours

Pretty egocentric to think the world revolves around how your life was, isn't it?

BTW, that's flaw 3 in your "logic".

[i] If that logical breakdown of the reality of getting a Varsity letter makes you look bad, you have to ask yourself why? Is it because I am making up stats, or you think your completely unrelated details are lacking in authenticity? If my breakdown of the athletics program is in error, you are also welcome to show me where I was wrong.[/i]

Let's look at it logically...

You preported 3 seasons in 4 years.

Lettering is for participation in varsity athletics.

You said you lettered 9 times...that means, by your own logic, you played at least 3 sports...if not more...to get 9 letters.

I guess maybe your school prohibited you from participating as a freshman. I know my school didn't. I knew 4 guys my age who started high school football (2 went on to play NCAA university football) as freshmen. And, I went to a high school of about 800-900 students so there was no shortage of players.

So, sorry for you if your school didn't allow you to get 12 letters. My school did. So, not every school is just like "JD high".

[i] Or you can pretend to be attacked again.[/i]

Aw...yes...I feel so attacked. Boohoo.

Go shuffle through your letters and remember what you were once upon a time.

BTW, I can still play Bach on a tuba.

Can you still run a 4.7 40-yard dash? :p :^0

It seems that some of you are new to such events ocurring, however police laying open ended charges that don't result in anything other than dropped charges is a daily ocurance.

"We have dropped charges, due to extenuating circumstances however we feel that officer BJ acted appropriately and shall continue to prived our dear citizens with the level of protecion and safety they have grown accustomed to."

It's daily horsh1t that means 'the pig screwed up but next time he might get a lame charge to stick if left uncontested, we don't blame him as we all do it too.'

You can't tell me this is new to any of you. EVERY police department drops similar charges EVERY day, in Canada, America, the UK, Australia etc. Charges are NOT admissions of guilt, they are just a reason to further hassle the guy until the cop can hopefully find something that actually sticks so he gets payback for your calling him a piglet rocksucker and making oinky noises all the way to the pigpen.

As most such arrests are followed with quick release and dropped charges, after a chance to hassle for the guy for a while, yuo clearly have NO information AT ALL, to support your BELIEFS/ASSERTIONS.
So yoru warped logic is that they didn't say anything so it must be that they bowed to political pressure? And how has that helped reduce teh stir in the news?

one day you'll make a semireasonable and accurate comment, and the world will stop turning and teh rainbows will come out an dunicorns will dance with the fairies. until then you are just speculative, antagonizingly incorrect in yoru blatantly outrageous and unsupported commentary. Yuo even get pissed of at those who disagree with you, even when you know you are just blowing wind out of your arse and not stating fact of any sort.

I don't even buy that YOU believe yourself why the hell would anyone else?

You have addressed this from the start as something unique and not just a daily event. The only thing unique was Obama commenting on it, the rest is a daily event for a street pig.

Your speculation is unwarranted; in law, referral to recent or similar cases is paramount, being such a comon issue this is a no brainer, which is why I am shocked you don't get it.

You've never seen this before??? What rock are you hiding under?

Then again, there's not too much you [i]do[/i] get anyway.

http://tinyurl.com/nhb2fl
http://tinyurl.com/qwpk5d

This chump was treated far better than the 72 year-old grandmother who recently did far less and got tasered to the ground for her trouble.

And now Gates and everybody who knows or is related to him is milking the cash cow.

Unless I hear something legitimate to counter the blathering idiot I heard in the background on the call tapes, we'll continue to disagree.

first, no matter how many letters I did or didn't earn has no baring on your father who is not a part of this conversation. Set him up with an account and let him join in if he wishes.

As for six seasons, that is news to me. I would like to see a reference to a US high school sports schedule that shows they have six separate seasons. They would be damn short, that is for sure.

And there is no 40 yard dash. The shortest is 100, and it is meters now.

I was a long distance runner and pole vaulter, not a sprinter. Can I still run a 15:20 5k? No, but my pic is still hanging in the hall. Gives my boy something to shoot for, but he has the advantage of having me help train him to enable him to exceed what I did.

I won't fault you for teaching your son(s) to strive to be their best. That is always good.

However, my picture is hanging in my school as well and I never played a sport. In fact last I heard, my picture is in the main building and the music arts building still after 22 years. Not shabby for a band geek, eh?

As for my father, your luck is out with getting him on a computer. He doesn't like any technology past a remote control or weedeater. Hence, that is why I am always going over to deal with fixing anything electronic so that my parents don't have to go buy a new PC, TV, phone, etc., unless absolutely necessary.

And yeah, 6 seasons would be a lot in a year...unless of course, you're talking about 6 different sports.

Oh btw...ever hear of a football player running a "four-five-forty"?

That's 4.5 seconds in a 40 yard dash.

They used that in high school and college football for years...even into the 90s that I recall. I don't know about now.

So, there is/was such a thing in athletics. Perhaps they just didn't use it at your school. They did at mine, especially for speed positions such as running backs, receivers, defensive backs, defensive ends and linebackers.

So, lessons learned here:

A dash isn't exclusive to track and field or cooking.

Not all schools have the same amount of participatory rules or sports in their curriculum.

And, not everyone uses a computer.

So ends the lesson.

especially if you excel at it. ThingTwo plays trumpet, ThingOne plays trombone, guitar, and bass guitar.

As for the 40. That is not an EVENT, it is an internal unit of measure. And ask your "dad" and he will tell you the validity of "football" and their little 40 yard sprint.... :p

And in my day you were not able to do more than one sport at a time because the practices and matches would conflict. You couldn't even do band and most of the sports in the fall/winter. They have changed that to allow you NOW to do band and sports because fewer and fewer people would do the band over the sports. And you do get your varsity letter for being in Band now, don't know if you did in your day. I was never in band because they made you choose between them back then.

So, no, I do not believe "back in the day" anyone could participate in more than one sport per season, with there being three seasons per year.

Matter of fact, back then didn't high school consist of only 10th thru 12th? or was it 8th? I remember some old timers talking about how they used to be grouped together differently. ah well, 21. Not in this modern world we live in now.

I know they allowed in my high school to be in band and athletics in some cases. But, not many people could pull off being at school at 7:30 for band, then pull 5 classes, then 7th period go out for 2-3 hours of sports practice, etc. But, there were a couple of people who did that.

Things do change, yes.

As for grades, I have seen high schools have from 7-12 and 11-12, depending on the school system. All depends on the setup.

I even remember one guy I went to school with all of my life that was a running back started the varsity team a few games in 8th grade because he was that good. I don't remember if he got a letter or not, but he started.

As for the 40 yard dash, I never said it was an event...I had just thought one of your sports would have been football and that you did that as part of drills and stuff. Bad assumption on my part. I thought Michigan was a big football state back in the Schembechler days.

First of all, note that BOTH police reports used exact same verbiage, word for word to describe Gates' demeanor. Meaning discussed and contrived, this is where they usually fail and are not accepted to begin with.

Secondly, the first officer instantly realized that Gates was who he said he was, so all this talk about him not providing ID is complete horse rot. The officer also noted Gates walked with a cane, an instant clue that perhaps he is not a robber breaking into houses and then able to flee the scene.

The ONLY explanation for Officer Crowley's behaviour is that Gates was YELLING, and telling him things? "While yelling, he told me..." Did he yell or tell? Its a conflict of words.

Officer Crowley then commented, knowing very well that the elderly professor was irritated, that he didn't listen when he gave him his name. However, that is highly questionable opinion too.

Gates may have said numerous things, including requesting ID, the officer just focused on that and tried to interrupt, cut in on what Gates was "yelling" and was no heard. This of course further irritates the situation by showing Gates he was being ignored.

I've seen this exact scenario played out many many times myself.

At that point, the officer made a decision, knowing fully well what Gates' demeanor was, to take it outside, THIS is where the officer made his biggest mistake.

He turned his back and walked away while inviting Gates to follow him.

Gates remained on the porch, assuming due to his physical disability, and continued to yell at the police officer, and ask for ID, and of course was assuming it was a racial issue, he had no reason to believe otherwise. Why was HE treated with such disrespect? Either way, he is entitled to dos so until it bothers public.

Gates mentioned that there were several onlookers at this time who overheard and seemed disturbed by Gates' actions,all of a sudden the cop can judge behaviour but can't judge Gate's behaviour as to be expected in the situation.

This I any any judge would find hard to accept though, Gates was known in the area, was in an argument with police and people who knew him were probably more interested in what was going on than they were offended or uneasy due to his tone. What kind of college student is alarmed when an elderly, disabled man is shouting at police? Nobody faces and form of threat, it's just rubber knecking and I am sure there were also witnesses to Gates behaviour, which would have followed up with the department or complained about the officer's handling of the situation, another POSSIBLE reason for his quick release.

It is a typical scene that won't stand up in any courtroom, it is to be expected by any officer entering another person's home without invitation. Especially with an elderly black man who has obviously fought the odds for decades to get where he is. Crowley's use of police psycholiogy and behavioural characteristics are all but non existent, illustrating his as a crappy cop. You don't think someone like Gates has grown up with a history of being dismissed despite his abilities just because he's black?

I am confident he's seen real levels of racism that nobody, including the officer can understand.

His demeanor was to be predicted and expected, it is not out of the ordinary and must be accepted as much.

He was invited outside in order to finish what he had to say, this was a grave mistake on the officers part, especially after hearing and recognizing just how infuriated he was.

The police officer repeated his name, speaking over Mr.Gates twice, which is quite rude by most people's standards. Why didn't he have a card to offer him as all other officers do?

It's the same scene every time, they'll mumble their name and if they have to repeat it they get upset and tell you to just call in a complaint.

I've been there, I've seen it from both sides, I completely disagree with the way officer Crowley handled the call, his report is rife with mistakes, and that's exactly what the chief saw and why it was tossed out.

Did it have anything to do with Obama's comments or black influence? Nope, not a word.

the cop botched a call, plain and simple, if it was played out on COPS you'd see exactly what a pr*ck Crowley was, how his actions were wrong and why Gates was later released, he shouldn't have been arrested to begin with.

No matter what you think, you are only looking at Crowleys recount of events, and talking it verbatim, which is a grave mistake, cops cover their butts, in this case with identical comments as to Gates demeanor, ooops.

Of course when you sit there and play armchair judge, you can make it as innocent as you wish, especially when reading an officers recount of a situation, designed to make him look as if he acted appropriately.

However, as this same issue happens ALL the time and cops get away with all kinds of BS until someone calls them on it. It's about time someone stood up and made a fair, legal stand against such poor police action. You seem to think that you must cowtow to and heed police in such a situation, you are wrong.

What a pi$$y, whiny little c**t you are JD

Your comments are that usually found in an after school special about an underprivileged kid in elementary school.

JD offered an explanation of his comments as you insisted he detailed them, as if there is any relevance in doing so to begin with, and you comment about a football team's little 40 yard dash?

Grow the f-up for once, over the last week or so you have become such a child with your replies, you make no sense and drivel on about the most irrelevant shite as if it is a valid argument that proves your comments or something.

You started a ranting post full of personal bias that began with half truths and speculations.

When people see your objective for what it really is, you get all pi$$y and upset then start focusing on the irrelevant in an effort to have SOMETHING to say so that you don't look like a complete loser.

Your inability to step up and be a man, has made you appear a total tosser anyway, and no matter what stupid retort you have offer, you are still the child here and have displayed that already. No amount of BS now is going to revert what has already been displayed by you so have a bash, cry me a river, whine and complain about the horrible Oz, call me a girl whatever floats your false bottom boat.

You only look more ignorant and more incapable of being a man with each and every word.

Never bought into the hype or the jock mentality that goes with it. And not being a dumb jock, I was not one of the people that had to look down my nose at the band geeks to feel better about myself.

The big problem with sports like football, basketball, baseball and soccer, there is to much politics involved in order to play. I did sports that there was no question who would do what.

Running, they did the tryout the day before a meet, and the fastest three ran varsity.
Wrestling, you wanted to wrestle a certain class, you had to make weight and challenge for the seat.
Pole Vaulting, you went higher or you lost.

Told people I did wrestling so I could defend myself, and running and pole vaulting so I could get away if I ever chewed off more than I could handle.... :D

I wanted to do band, but not nearly as much as the sports. Love the sound of the brass section, especially in a jazz band.

One year for track, I would get out of school, run home (mile) and my gf would be there. We would have a session, and then I would run back to school for track practice. One day the coach pulled me off to the side and asked me why in practice I always looked so tired, but when it came to tryouts and the meets I was always the number one or two person. He walked away shaking his head when I told him.... ;\

[i]"Your doing that everyday?" :p[i/]

I went to a very old high school, celebrated its hundreth anniversary when I was there. It had some long standing traditions.

There were two levels of distinction, a small school letter and a big one. Any organized/school sponsored extra curricular activity got you points, but they didn't make it easy, and few students earned the big letter.

When I arrived in high school, I was one of the shortest in my class, and not enrolled in gym. But I did gain lots of points for Band (was in three bands one year), Camera club (2 years as president), Yearbook(2 years as photographic editor), and various plays and musicals.

By the time I got to last year (grade 13), I had shot up to 6 feet and was very skinny. I actually took grade 13 phys ed cause it was a university level course (credited at one local university) on Leisure/Recreation with a little exercise physiology thrown in. I was motivated by the fact I had become a long distance runner. Our assignments were to design physical recreation activities for the class. These included things like cross country skiing, introduction to Karate (mine), golf etc. Students helped mark each other by assessing how well the activity was planned and executed.

As I was fit enough, I also joined the cross country team. I wasn't in the same league with our junior team, that came 1,2,3 in the provincial championships, but I had fun, and went to county and regional meets.

Needless to say, I was proud to put my big B on my prefects sweater. The one I found in a locker and used to get me through the halls when they were closed. I was never a prefect.

I know plenty of people who were successful in life without lettering in school, it means little.

Slandering someone because they did or did not letter, now thats just silly. If you'd met me as a stunty little grade 9er, you'd never dream I'd compete for my school or learn to break boards.

Real men don't need school letters to boost their egos, nor do they need to be worried if someone cast silly aspersions like "picked last". I was often picked last in school, but 20 years later was voted by my peers MVP in the company baseball tournament.

James

We called that process tryouts.

I had a good arm when I got into baseall and I could catch ig outfield fly's so I began as a centre fielder. As I further developed my arm, I moved to 2nd and Short (the two always seem to go together). Being too short fo rshort, and havign further developed my arm, I pitched for the remaining 7 years of baseball (no it wasn't highschool baseball so you don't need to explain how there are only 4 -years of high school). I had to fall out when my back couldn't take it anymore, at that time I was practicing with the Vancouver Canadians, Oakland's farm team.

All other sports I've played are actually "organized sports" where people have specific skills and are matched to specific positions, where they further develop skills.

You must live in a really screwed up part of America, everytjing there seems to differ from everywhere else, or at least you make it appear that way for the case of argument.

you are 6ft?

As for the being picked last, only a cryassbitch would make comments like that, and did in this case... :D

While I do admire your use of such creative street lingo, it dosn' really help when you try to demean someone by comparing them to a woman.

I did suggest you were last picked in the playground, because you were having a little fit. However, what would such an insecure response to a cryass bitch be called?

"As for last picked, sorry, I have no frame of reference to know what that was like.[b] I was always in the first group to get picked, having lettered 9 times, [u]I was damn good"[/b][/u]

Ahhh, memories of when you could make it 100 yards without stopping at McDonalds. Can you make it to the fridge today without nearing a heart attack?

Overly defensive paranoia? Your quest for manhood is clear, your distyant memories of being althetic are amusing, your insistance that others are girls as if to demean them by comparing them to women simply illustrates a life of never being quite good enough and never really being accepted as a man, thus the overt insecurity.

Did your ex find you in her delicates one day and now you have to do all you can to illustrate your backward grasp of masculinity in order for gain some personal security?

Yes, I'm 6'. When I stand up straight. Which I don't do often enough.

In grade 13 I was 6' and 135. Freakishly skinny. As the yearbook guy I hung out with the jocks taking pics, and they used to comment. Thankfully one of those jocks stopped me when I lost my temper and went after someone who flicked their bic an inch from my nose. I figure he saved me from suspension.

As part of grade 13 phys ed, the physiology part, we had to design an exercise program, follow it and measure the results. I did weight training (brother had weights at home) and I added about 10 lbs to my upper body.

James

th firts report has an additional statement of facts by Crowley but it was Figueroa's report. The second link was for Croelwy's own report.

Figuueroa used the exact same opening verbage, word for word, as Crowley used in hsi report. They are supposed to be written independantly and without discussion, they either worked otgeher so long that they think the same, moreso than twins, or it was a result of prior discussion.

Bush knew he was feeding false info, in fact it was HE that ordered a change in his speech regarding th eknowledge that Saddam had sought out nuclear technology. It was reported back by teh CIA as being false, GWB's speechwriter said under oath that he was instructed to leave it out and instead show they they HAD confirmed the info.

GWB just playe dteh part of a puppet, he ha dcontrol and knowledge, but it's easier if you can pass blame to administartive communication issues.

Obama just holds the reigns tight and is along for teh ride by himself, he doesn't pas sthe buck the same way at all, which is actually far mor eupstanding than hiding knowledge of the truth and just playing dumb (though it is second nature to him).

At th etime it was horrible. I didn' teven think about what I was doing I hit a really good friend square in the face with a back round kick, if he hadn't have moved it would have broken his nose. Instead he got off with a bloody nose and two black eyes for a few days. I still feel like crap just thinking that I had hurt a friend.

I come across as antagoistic but I don't physically bully people, I find it rather weak. I will go to bat and fight to the end if needed to stop a bully harming someone else or defend myself from the same, but I do not seek a fight.

One thing I learned very young, when I first started in martial arts, was to understand the repercussions of actually using such techniques to harm someone. You can really mess sosmeone up without really intending to, it is taught to be controlled but not forethough. In other words I won't think about where you are going to hit me, it is just reactionary after a while, but the resulting block or returned hit is carefully controlled all the same.

Good thing I did my back in actually, I would have really been in a lot of trouble when I first got into event security, as I was small and eager, there were plenty of times when I could have just knocked someone out but choose a safer and more methodical route instead. That's where I learned to remove large people with little effort and not a lot of argument from their part, even when drunk and beligerant.

Anyway, enough about that, it's freakin' hot isn't it?

We've had records all week so far and expect to break all others in the next few days too.

It's just so humid (being oceanside) as well as HOT that it's lik ethe opposite of a windchill factor, it escalates teh heat effects by 10 degrees!

Right now, 34C/93.2F by the water where I am, they say that with the humidex it's actually the equivalent of 40C/104.

We are supposed to be the Great White North! OR at least a moderate rainforest climate year round.

"It's hot enough to boil a monkey's bum in 'ere", her majesty said, then she smiled proudly to herself

[i]Figuueroa used the exact same opening verbage, word for word,[/i]

The "verbage" starts out:

"On July 16th at approximately 12:44 PM, I Officer [b]Figueroa#509[/b]" (bolding added)

I don't think Crowley would claim he was Figueroa!

It appears that you are reading the statement of Figueroa and trying to attribute it to Crowley!

at 13? I was about 6'.

Of course, I grew slowly until I was 28.

Ironic thing is, the doctors all slated me to be between 6'7 and 6'10. Being over 500 lbs for so long compressed my joints and bones.

Guess 6'6 is my limit! :^0

was limited at best, really.

Guys like Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc., really had the insider power and pull and push.

Now GW's father...and grandfather Prescott...those were powerful men.

But, GW was just a cornpone kid who had all his misdeeds smoothed over by Dad and Grandpa and the family money and never worked hard for anything in his life.

After all, he commended himself to Ivy League graduates about having been a C student.

Yay...I'm average...and your leader. You should build monuments to me! :^0

Dear God, please never let us have a self-righteous, egotistical bumpkin as president again.

Obama might make mistakes, but at least he worked hard for what he got and can pronounce words they teach you how to pronounce in 5th-7th grade.

Nothing says bright, well-educated, well-spoken leader like your elected leader addressing an international governing body on "noo-kyoo-lur threats".

I guess it's kinda like calling a guy a girl, as if that's a bad thing.

was not trolling for a date? Good enough.

Also good to see you are not to politically correct to do a little gay bashing, in your implication of the guy-crush, and holding it in such an obvious negative light.

You should stop by the Friday Yuks. Bring your "A" material.

Maybe next time, instead of your normal personal attack on me, how about discuss the idea? Cheers.

Just stupidity in general... Stupid white people, stupid black people, stupid rednecks, stupid skinheads, stupid men, stupid women, stupid gay people, stupid straight people, stupid atheists, stupid religious wackos... you get the picture.

It's simple logic... the 911 tape has been released, the caller said there were [b]two[/b] men.

The dispatch tape has been released, the dispatcher said there were [b]two[/b] men.

The cop arrives, looks through the window and sees [b]one[/b] man.

Logically that can mean two things. Either the man the cop saw was one of the two men the caller saw, or he was a different man. That means that there are either one or two men unaccounted for. What does a cop do at this point? Confront the man he sees, or stand there peering through the window at him until backup arrives?

I don't know if asking the man for an ID was right, but I damn sure know that Gates' initial response to the request, launching into a tirade, wasn't. It labeled him as stupid, and that stupidity was running its natural course... until Obama got wind of it.

It's not a black thing, it's a stupid thing... If the cop had been black, and Gate's had launched into a similar tirade, the outcome would have been exactly the same, except it wouldn't have been news.

What, he wouldn't have launched into a tirade if the officer had been black? Wouldn't that make Gates a racist?

So does officer Crowley has a beef with Gates, the press, and with Obama... picking on him "because he's white"?

If you can't see two all but identical paragraphs, you need to learn how to read a police report or just read at all.

I can't believe you actually posted something like that, which illustrates how absolutely ignorant you can be!

Just read the lines about "tomultuos behavior" , I can't believe I actually read and replies to such horseshlt, you can do better than that, just try the reading part next time.

If you have reading comprehension issues or simply can't read, which is very common and understandable, please get some help before posting such crap and wasting my time next time.

"This afternoon in an interview, Gates said he never yelled at the officer other than to demand his name and badge number, which he said the officer refused to give. The officer, Sergeant James Crowley, said in the police report that he did state his name. He also said Gates unleashed a verbal tirade, calling him racist, telling him that he did not know who he was messing with, and threatening to speak to his "mama" outside.

Gates' words today:

"The police report is full of this man's broad imagination," Gates said in response to a question on whether he had said any of the quotes in the report. "I said, 'Are you not giving me your name and badge number because I'm a black man in America?' ... He treated my request with scorn ... I was suffering from a bronchial infection. I couldn't have yelled ... I don't walk around calling white people racist."
http://medianation.blogspot.com/2009/07/gates-disputes-police-report.html

I wouldn't give it a second guess, I've seen exactly how the police lie and BS their way into a police report and because enough people seem to believe them, they stick, even when outright lies are put down to excuse their actions.

When I was a security foreman, I worked VERY closely with Vancouver Police ( I knew and hung out with quite a few of them before during and after Coliseum events)who were always on scene to implement arrests and lay charges on people we pulled from concert crowds. MORE than several times I was 'prompted' to leave out info or sidle around info or just outright lie so that our reports coincided with their own and they didn't get in trouble.

They are corrupt 'kers, BIG TIME. They get away with murder, literally and it's not just VPD as they are known nto be one of the lesser questioned forces, to even begin to believe that it wouldn't happen in Gates' case is just a display of overt naiivety.

Go to BOSTON.COM and they have tapes and phone calls from gates, where his comments align EXACTLY with what I predicted happened, again I've seen it all dozens of time from the corrupt baystards that we pay to protect us.

Yuo can either take it from someone who knows, and the comments of the man involved himself, or you can believe a contrived letter of BS that even the department didn't think woul dstand up in court.

They are all 'kin scumbags and liars, that we pay for.
It makes me sick to see the lies they get away with just because people have watched too many espisodes of COPS and feel everyone they face is wrong and bad, while the Cops are always righteous and upstanding... little 'kin pigs ought to all be shot and pi$$ed on, lets get some REAL police in our cities for once.

This one will blow your mind!
http://www.vancouversun.com/Transcript+Victim+alleged+police+beating+talks+reporters/1212370/story.html

The first guy apparently got a 21 day home arrest! The second still to be sentenced.

rare? One off? Not bloody likely!

Many (especially public) employees (not just police) are trained to use certain phrases and words (and NOT use others) to describe certain events in creating official documentation.

As far as him claiming not to have yelled, The tapes of the radio traffic seem to indicate otherwise. You could hear someone ranting about something while Crowley was talking on the radio. There were also civilian witnesses to his ranting and behavior when he came outside. He may have damaged his own credibility with that claim.