Obama "acted stupidly"

[i]Just stupidity in general... Stupid white people, stupid black people, stupid rednecks, stupid skinheads, stupid men, stupid women, stupid gay people, stupid straight people, stupid atheists, stupid religious wackos... you get the picture.[/i]

There was a lot of stupidity in the whole thing.

a) Gates foremost.

I can understand blacks (especially someone of Gates' age who still in his youth probably had to deal with a lot of prejudice...and evidently still hasn't learned impartial judgement) being concerned with white cops because of history and all, just like i can understand a white person not wanting to walk down the same sidewalk as night that a group of black men are standing on. There's fear that's both been strung by history as well as news events (although the news highlights the minority, radical events often...unfortunately).
But, his remarking about "your mama" to anyone...was just absolutely juvenile and unnecessary.

[i]It's simple logic... the 911 tape has been released, the caller said there were two men.[/i]

The caller was wrong about their intent.

Also, Gates was being dropped off by a driver. I don't know about you, but drivers tend to drive lincolns and cadillacs and they tend to be towncars or stretch models.

I don't know of many burglars who have limos.

[i]The dispatch tape has been released, the dispatcher said there were two men.[/i]

The dispatch got a report from a neighbor. Right.

[i]The cop arrives, looks through the window and sees one man.

Logically that can mean two things. Either the man the cop saw was one of the two men the caller saw, or he was a different man. That means that there are either one or two men unaccounted for. What does a cop do at this point? Confront the man he sees, or stand there peering through the window at him until backup arrives?[/i]

Obvious. He confronted him. That's established in the police report. And after Gates dumb comments, he gave the cop ID that he radioed into both Harvard police and his own department and then came back to Gates evidently and returned his ID. This is established both by the fact another officer from his own department had arrived and that Harvard University police had arrived when he reported to look behind himself after the dialogue with Gates.

[i]I don't know if asking the man for an ID was right, but I damn sure know that Gates' initial response to the request, launching into a tirade, wasn't. It labeled him as stupid, and that stupidity was running its natural course... until Obama got wind of it.[/i]

From my understanding, Gates is a friend of his. I would be willing to bet, after hearing about Gates "your mama" contribution to the world of oratory that he didn't tell Obama the whole truth about the incident.
And, I wouldn't call Gates a friend anymore if he were my friend and lied or misled me.

My friends don't lie to me.

[i]It's not a black thing, it's a stupid thing... If the cop had been black, and Gate's had launched into a similar tirade, the outcome would have been exactly the same, except it wouldn't have been news.[/i]

I don't think it would have been the same. By Gates' reaction, I'd say he is one who would have given more benefit of the doubt to someone of his own race.

Of course, racial stereotyping still permeates our society even today...no matter what your skin color.

[i]What, he wouldn't have launched into a tirade if the officer had been black? Wouldn't that make Gates a racist?[/i]

IMHO, yeah it's racist no matter what race you prefer...no matter if it's your race or not. Racism is bias to one race or another.

I love Dave Chapelle's play on racism with the blind, black, white supremicist. That says it all about what racism truly is, although I don't think most Americans fully understand racism in its pure form.

[i]So does officer Crowley has a beef with Gates, the press, and with Obama... picking on him "because he's white"?[/i]

Don't know. You have to ask him that.

Or ask his fellow officers. They probably know what he's said in the squad room that he hasn't said in front of cameras.

HELL NO.

There's nothin like womanly woman parts...period. :)

Moobs are out!

See I am the absolute opposite. Not becvaise I am some tough guy or anything but I think, from spending lot of time on the street myself, that you garner more respect than y crossign the road.

In fact I'm the type of guy who owuld come up with something to say as well, walk by and strike up a few words of passin gconversation, it's calms people when they have a chip on their shoulder to find out that yuo are just a normal dude walking by and don't see people any differently.

Nothign invasive like 'do you sell drugs?' or anything but just ask something normal.
"Hey guys, is it true you can all break dance like there's no tomorrow?" , "Do you have any real gold teeth or a grill you can show me?" , "Do you know what time it is? I know 'you guys' usually wear a big clock around your kneck?" or something even friendlier like, "Is it possible I can drop by your house for some REAL fried chicken or a pancake breakfast?"

Seriously though, if you just walk around as you woul danywhere else on the planet, yuo usually dont' get into issues.

People either don't feel threatened by you and leave you alone, or they wonder what kind of crazy stuff you are into to have the bollocks to waltz down their street in the daytime.

With two very close friends, one a true Rastafarian from Jamaica, then New York and Florida and another from Alabama, living up here, I see more racial awareness from them than anyone else I've ever met.

It was funny a few weeks back, I was with my buddy form Alabama and he nodded at another lack guy that we passed on the street. the guy looke da him as if he was an alien, he ha dthat "Do I know you or something?' look on his face.

I smiled at my friend and asked if he knew the guy, his reply was "No, but there aren't many black people around so I always say hi"

i foun dit amusing because the other guy didn't even seem to realize he was black, just a dude walkign down the street. It simply isn't an issue of focus here.

Orientals and Eastern Indians, no longer a minority here but in many areas a majority see some racism though, however it is not overt and is usually kept under people's breath. It's not much better but people here do realize we live ina multicultural country and simply mumble about cultural differences and legal allowances afforded to others. (Such as Indians. not having to wear motorcycle helmets over a tubran, though most just accept that as natural selection)

First of all, singular words may be similar, an identical comment is collaborative. You are also trying to defend the valididty of a report that couldn't detain the suspect!

You don't actually believe what you are saying either, you are just saying anything other than accepting you missed a key issue in the report.

Another key issue you missed was that Gates said he raised his voice when he had no choice but to follow the officer outside, who was typically ignoring his request for ID (again they will often babble a name but not be clear or hand you their card as they are supposed to).

Yuo have proven time and time again that you cannot graps even the simplest concepts that you read on TR, you have proven time and time again that you have horrific comprehension skills with what you read on TR.

Yet you feel your understanding of a police report, where you missed near identical paragraphs and even agreed to missing who had written them, is worthy enough to debate fine details?

Try some fool that doesn't already know how it all goes down.

No need to get nasty; as a tip, JD will always see it as offensive, racist or insulting unless coming from himself.

Go back and look at your posts to me.

You jump in and make it a personal slight on me when you reply to something I have said.

Maybe you are so caught up in the topic you don't realize how hostile you typically are towards me? It is well beyond a simple disagreement with me or my views.

As for insult, please explain to me the proper meaning of a "guy crush". I took the term at face value, knowing what a crush is. I also assume it was not intended as a complement?

I am willing to listen if this term has a different meaning, and if it is intended to be a complement or insult based upon that meaning.

[i]There was a lot of stupidity in the whole thing.[/i]

But what should the officer have done? said, "Excuse me, Mr. potential burglar, sir. Would you mind waiting here while I call a black officer so he can come and ask you for your ID. I would hate for you to think that the purpose of my inquiry would be to harass you because of your race, Mr. potential burglar sir."?

[i]But, his remarking about "your mama" to anyone...was just absolutely juvenile and unnecessary.
[/i]

I'll have to admit I don't understand the significance... just more ranting to me.

[i]The caller was wrong about their intent.[/i]

The caller said she didn't KNOW their intent, other than she (or actually, the older lady who was telling her (hmmm... might bear some looking into... maybe the whole thing was a setup)) thought it was suspicious.

[i]I don't know of many burglars who have limos.
[/i]

The caller didn't say, and there was no car mentioned when the officer arrived.

[i]I don't think it would have been the same. By Gates' reaction, I'd say he is one who would have given more benefit of the doubt to someone of his own race.
[/i]

I don't know... I hear often enough around here when a black cop confronts a black subject, "What, you pin on a badge and you ain't black no more, whitey lover?"

Some people carry chips on their shoulder because it's profitable for them to do so.

[i]Of course, racial stereotyping still permeates our society even today...no matter what your skin color.
[/i]

Easily curable... Don't act like the stereotype!

[i]Don't know. You have to ask him that.[/i]

Apparently a lot of people THINK they know... He was asked... some people didn't like the answer.

[i]First of all, singular words may be similar, an identical comment is collaborative. You are also trying to defend the valididty of a report that couldn't detain the suspect![/i]

The suspect was released solely because the department wanted to avoid the flak.

[i]Another key issue you missed was that Gates said he raised his voice when he had no choice but to follow the officer outside, who was typically ignoring his request for ID (again they will often babble a name but not be clear or hand you their card as they are supposed to).[/i]

Hmmm... he told reporters he was incapable of raising his voice... yet at least 8 policemen and 5 civilians said he did just that. Of course, Gates is telling the truth and all these other people are lying. Or maybe his condition improved from the time he was standing in the foyer to the time he was being put in the police car...

As I've said, I know of many instances where cops have been a$$holes or racists... I don't believe this was one of those.

... and what "identical comment"? I read and re-read and couldn't spot it.

[i]"The suspect was released solely because the department wanted to avoid the flak."[/i]

What "flak" would that be Tony?
Arresting a man for not cooperating with a police nvestigation?
Arresting a man who you claim is proven to have been beligerant and disturbing the peace?
Arresting a man who refused to cooperate with poilice?

These are not charges that create flak at all, if you break the law and are charged with breaking a law, there's no such thing as flac for doing your job to the letter of the law. I am positive that Obama will/would not get involved as a regulatory power, he knows the polce investigations are their business and not his. It woul dbe mroe detrimental to his career as president to step in tht way, look how much controversy a simple comment caused him, he wound up retracting his chocie of words.

A police report that is to be HEAVILY scrutinized, for any form of inconsistency, any form of vague question, is tossed out unless letter perfect.

There's no grey area, it is either pinpoint accurate, which it must be to wistand scrutiny, or it is useless. MANY useless reports are applied as the prisoner has no possible excuse and would never be able to contest his actions, leaving the report from clos ecrutiny, but any lawyer that gets such a case will tear that report apart.

To even THINK that the police would drop an investigation due to Obama's misinterpretation is absurd.

From personal, hands on experience, I would say the reports are dead accurate about 5% of the time (and that's being generous), the majority have some fabrication or covering up of issues, and others are absolute fabrication for the purpose of saving someone's butt.

I would put this into category where there is some truth and JUST enough elaboration added to cloud over reality and hopfully have a charge stick in order to prove a point to Gates.

The mentality that makes a person WANT to be a cop to begin with is one that seeks power, accreditation for one's actions, respect, strangth etc. It is not a good paying job, I make more than cops do and it is a thankless job.

When faced with a more successful person, who understand their rights, Cops makecountless mistakes in order to prove they are boss (when they really aren't anything but our/public employees). When I start refusing things based on my knowledge of my rights, they get pretty frustrated too, I rarely need to raise my voice though because I know what they can and can't do, which really bums them out fast.

Those who really are in it to serve and protect don't wind up on the street, especially a seargeant with years of street exposure and experience. The fact that HE wrote such a collaborative report just screams falsified.

Lastly, teh charge that was laid on GATES is a baseless charge taht EVERY lawyer and judge knows is easily applied to almost anythign and really doesn't consitute criminal activity itself however it buys time for further investigation where OTHER charges can be laid, obviously GATES is not a wanted man though D& D won't hold water in his case, it will result in press, taxpayers expenses, and no return as he will be let go by any judge around.

if it is directed at you? ;\

How would the mini oz consider it if accused of having a crush on a man? Clearly it is intended as an insult or it would not be said like that.

And yes, jck clearly has a crush on you. Not that there is anything wrong with it, just pointing out something obvious... what the two of you do is your business. Far be it from me to judge.

It's nice to know that you are allowed to play without supervision, sometimes.

How would I react if someoen suggested I was a woman? Not, sure you tell me it's been you attempt at a shot at me for a week or so now. This illustrates that you feel such an association is immediately cuttnig and offensive, however I have not really reacted defensively to such comments. I just write it off as one more of your unqualified assertions, as you display your overt homophobia to all readers.

As for jck, I am flattered but he'd have to approach me personally, I don't care for third party match makers but thanks for passing on the tip.

Should I feel so inclined, I can email jck to pursue it further.

As for who it was directed at, that would be an issue of following the thread's nomenclature. If that's a bit difficlut for you, just ask someone where you should post next time.