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OEM or Retail?

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by jkaras

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Hey everyone,
I'm starting to build a pc at the home and am trying to get the most for my money. As I scan the net for the best deals for parts I'm confused why or why not to buy an OEM hard drive with a 3 year warrantee vs. a retail in the box with a 1 year warrantee that is 50+ dollars more? Everyone I ask gives my criptic answers for and against. Why spend more money for less warrantee? Are they actaully rebuilt parts or sold for mass distribution giving a great price? Also why is the manufacturer's site the most expensive? You would think they could keep the price somewhat competitive and still post a substantial profit. Any input would be appreciated, and it's good to be back, have a drunken good fourth with friends and family that's safe.

44 replies

by cactus pete

OEM devices are not necessarily spec'ed exactly as the retail version are, and may require different drivers to work with your OS. That's the usual condition for 'white box' hardware. You've pointed out, also, that the items may be refurbished, but the box should denote that if it's the case.

The manufacturer tries to not compete with their distributors. Otherwise, no one would sell their products. Selling their own stuff for a somewhat more than marginal price increase serves only to catch those few people who would never think to buy anywhere else, or who would not otherwise buy the products in the first place. Either way, the manufacturer is then not competing with their partners.

This all falls back to economies of scale, aswell. The retail stores are better at selling to consumers, that's their purpose. The manufacturer's supply [for sale] relative to the retail stores' supply is much smaller, driving the price up.

It's buyer beware no matter which way you turn, so just spend the time to KNOW what you're getting, and whether it will all work together as expected.

Look at all the specific part numbers, and look up the specs on each. Good luck, have fun, and welcome back.

by jkaras

Thx, I see your point on the manufacturer but it's not even close to a price. Why bother to post it was all. I didnt realize that there would be different drivers, thats something for me to consider but saving 60 dollars and getting the same warrantee extended 2 years is still pointing me in that direction. Do you know how to determine of sites whether they are referub or new? By the mdl no#s or a good ole fashioned sticker on the part? ANy horror stories with them or good times as a hole?

by cactus pete

The seller must tell you if you're buying something that was previously used. But that might be just as fine print on the box.

If you're particularly concerned, call the manufacturer! They may refer you to one of their distributors, but you can find out eventually.

I'm not up to speed on which sites might carry lists of parts, but Guru et al. might have, as there are others here who have more frequent experience building their own boxes. [Mine last long enough I only do this once in awhile. pat pat - but I even buy retail boxes when i's more appropriate for me.]

My trick in the past has been to see a retail box I like and emulate it, or better it, with individual parts. There are lots of online suppliers out there who have tiny, tiny margins. Shop around, and watch the part numbers.

I generaly start searches for cheap parts at pricewatch.com but I've just started getting into tomshardware.com. Also, I subscribe to maximumpc [seen at maximumpc.com, but the mag is MUCH better than the site].

by tomsal

In the United States anyway, no merchant can sell you a refurbished product without openly informing you that its rebuilt/refurbished.

This can even be deceptive however, be warned, they can write in small print "Refurbished" and that fulfills their legal obligation.

To be honest, 99% of all the parts for my systems that I get OEM are brand new - and I've been buying them OEM for about 10 years now.

The main reasons, to my experience anyway, for the huge price variations from retail toOEM is that 1) You don't have the glitzy, "pretty" packaging (yes believe it or not that means something to some people), 2) You don't get any extras that the retail version has (for instance with many retail Video cards you'll get demo versions of games, perhaps some freebie overclock utility and a nice printed manual - the OEM version is literally just the card and a single driver disk), 3) OEM versions are cheaper for the manufacturer to put together because of reasons 1 and 2 -- therefore the lower cost is passed on to the consumer.

You want to see a HUGE price difference? Check out the OEM vs Retail pricing of say Windows XP Pro....lol..

by thechas

My experience is with mostly Western Digital drives.

The seller should tell you if it is a refurbished drive.

On the refurbished WD drives that I have, the model number is the same, but the word refurbished appears in small print under the model number on the drive label.

Some of the web sites that sell PC parts real cheap, are selling refurbished parts. They cover themselves for US laws by having that fact listed in the fine print on the page or the purchase agreement.

The sites I deal with for cheap hardware clearly define if a part is new used or refurbished.

www.compgeeks.com
www.newegg.com
www.mwave.com

Also, watch shipping and return terms on the low cost sellers. They often tack on a large shipping charge, or have a re-stocking fee even for defective parts.

Chas

by mrafrohead

I'll make this one short and sweet.

First thing, DPETRak is right on the money. I'm just posting this because there were just a couple of things I wanted to add.

One thing to watch out for, is processors. Retail processors from AMD, will come with a three year warranty and a heatsink/fan combo. And are a lot more money. Where, the OEM counterpart will be fanless AND have about a 90 day warranty. Granted you save a lot of money, but you are losing A LOT of warranty and you don't get the heatsink/fan combo. Another thing to think of though, if you do go Retail and use the heatsink fan combo, DO NOT overclock the chip as you'll end up overheating.

Other than the processors though, you're mainly paying extra for the box with thepretty little pictures on it. As for the shortened warranty on retail, i have no clue. I always though retail got you a better warranty unless they were running a special offer.

Newho - there's my two cents.

Mrafrohead

by thechas

When you buy an OEM hard drive, you usually get JUST the hard drive.
No cables
No Screws
No instruction manual
No install floppy

Most retail drives include all of the above.

You often get enough screws with your case, and a cable with yourmotherboard.

The manual and installation utility can be downloaded from the drive manufactures web site.

The only advantage in using the install floppy is if you are installing the drive in an older PC that cannot recognize the full capacity of the drive.
Or, some include a copy utility to totally transfer the contents of your old drive onto the new drive.

I buy whatever I get the best deal on.

I have seen no installation, life, or performance differences between retail and OEM drives.

Refurbished drives may be a different story. But they are often a good way to save a few more dollars.
I average problems with about 1 out of 10 refurbished drives.

For your OS, OEM is also the best deal for the money. XP Pro runs around $145 versus $300 for the retail version.

Chas

by guruofdos

OEM you get a bare drive or component. A full retail kit gives you an IDE cable, perhaps 5.25" to 3.5" drive rail adaptors, a setup floppy with quick install or overlay software and a wad of manuals.

You get the same support from the web site either way.

If you know what you are doing, OEM is better value than retail. If you are a novice, the documentation may come in handy if you buy retail.

Retail, you get a nice pretty box, handy for storing old petrol receipts or odd floppy disks, photos of the kids etc.

Retail, you pay for the overheads and staff wages and the 'added value' associated with a store or other vendor. Possibly, a tech conter to deal with problems.

You pay your money, and take your choice!

by hal 9000

The one thing that they have left out is with OEM OS & software it is tied to the original hardware and is not transferable from the original hardware. That is not to say if you change a HDD you have to buy new OEM software/OS but Microsoft's official line on this is if you change the M'Board/CPU and make a siginifent increase in performance you have to buy new OS/Software {well Microsoft stuff anyway} But OEM Microsoft product doesn't come in nice packaging nor have very detailed books in factif you buy a OEM copy of MS Office all you get are the CD's in a cardboard folder with the product key and the MS sticker on the cardboard case. This is all shrinkwraped. With XP you get a very thin booklet with the CD inside again shrinkwraped but the product is otherwise identical to what you would buy in a retail outlet.

As far as hardware goes you don't get the preety packaging and in the case of a video card you won't get any games or oher things just the drivers for the video card the same is true for the rest of the OEM hardware.

But from my experience you get better value for money buying OEm rather than retail and with the money that you save you can go out and buy the games/whatever that you actually want rather than what some manafacture has stitched up a deal with a software company to supply you with in the retail versions.

by chris hirst

The warranty will be with the retailer for 1 year most HD manufacturers (WD, Maxtor, Seagate & IBM definitely) give 3 years on every new drive (1 yr on refurbs) even if you bought retail.

by hal 9000

Was sold to Hitachi and Quantum was bought by Maxator all the hard drives went to 12 months warantiee from the date of manafacture and it is only the Segate drives with 8 meg of cache that have a 2 year warantiee. Well in Australia at least but as Ilook up these details on the manafactures web site and this is the posted garantie period I think it is the same in the US as well. But prior to this consiladition of HDD manafactures there was a 3 year warantiee from the date of manafacture on all HDD's.

But there is another thing here I recently returned an IBM drive for repair/replacment that originally had a 3 year warantiee on it and Hitachi returned a HDD that only had 2 months warantiee remaining on it when I recieved it. It was a remanfactured unit that failed within 3 weeks even though when I first got it I ran the Drive Fittness tester on it and it showed as perfect but less than 3 weeks latter the same test claimed that the drive had been exposed to a severe shock. Now normally that would not be a problem but the particular computer that it was fitted to has 23 HDD's installed 5 IDE and the rest SCSI and as they are all properly fitted I can't see how one of these drives could be subject to severe shock wile none of therest where affected. In this case I do question the quality of the repaired drive that I was supplied.

by sfc_gijoe

Usually it's the Retail versions that come with the higher cost and longer warranty. You have to pay more so the manufacturer will provide you with Tech Support.

by indigo18

I just bought 3 "Name brand," computers with XP installed and I see a difference between each box with XP Pro from February 2003 to July 2003.
I wonder now if there are reasons for the price disparity you mention and the quality of product. Do OEM's buy cheaper and cheaper software versions of the same product?

by hal 9000

But different OEM's can chose to install different parts of the OS as they see fit. There is also the possibility of different OEM's having different versions of the product depending on when they bought it. The big US players like HP, Dell, Gatewayand the like just buy an aggreement with MS and go from there they don't have to abide by the normal rules that the smaller OEM's have to like supplying original disks and litature with every computer {read that os MS lit rather than their own.}

This is probably the difference that you are noticing rather than a different product. Also they have an agreement with MS for MS to offer technical support where the other OEM's sellers are suspose to offer this support but MS isn't overly worried about this as they will give technical assistance to anyone but in a lot of cases they will claim that the problem has arrisen because of a third party application and attempt o charge you for any help.
This gets particuarly interesting when this claim is made for a computer that only has XP pro currently installed and is displaying a problem.

by thechas

In addition to the software installation differences that Colin mentioned, many 3rd party software packages are LE versions. These are "lite" or limited function versions of the manufactures regular software.

Microsoft Plus! for XP includes some of this "lite" software.

On the hardware side, there are some areas where many OEM parts are of a lesser grade than retail parts.
Motherboards,
Power Supplies,
Case and fans.

I avoid OEM motherboards as much as possible.
First, a true OEM motherboard is a customized product for a specific PC manufacture. Part of most OEM contracts is the provision that the board manufacture will provide NO support for the product.

OEM power supplies are made to the lowest capacity possible to save afew pennies off of the cost.

OEM cases are designed for fast assembly, not service or durability.

I have not seen a quality difference on other components.

For hard drives, if an OEM is large enough, they can get a custom size or even a private label on the drive.
Sometimes, they agree to accept drives with lower than normal yield on the platter. This does not mean the drive is of lesser quality, just that the platter does not have enough spare data sectors for a regular production drive.

Quality requirements are part of ALL OEM component contracts. The OEM requirements can be the same, tighter, or looser than the manufactures regular production standards.

Chas

by indigo18

It's too bad if we get LE software when buying a product you think is the real thing.
I remember when the title Professional meant just that. Instead of XP Pro it's better to go with home edition or back to ME.

by jkaras

Thank you everyone for your input. The websites are misleading and dont specify whether refurb or straight oem. No matter what I have to roll the dice. Currently I sent back my Abit KD7 mobo back to the site I bought it from. It was CDR express thinking they were CDW. After two weeks it blew due to a defective power supply so I sent it back DOA. They gave me the info after harrassing them to reply within 48hrs (it took them 5 days to email info)They said to wait 10-15 working days. After 8 daysI call on status to plan for receiving and upgrading pc. They informed me that there was damage to the board, memory clips damaged, but the box was in fine condition. As a result they are keeping my board for repair to determine abuse under warrantee whether they will fix or deny claim. As I called them telling them I took pictures before sending, they claimed that I sent it directly to Abit, not them as instructed ( they never informed me it was going Abit but made the pretense that it was going to them). According to the site all claims are handled by CDR, after 30 days handled by Abit. The address was different from the website's address saying ASI/RMA department vs. Abit. Is ASI a independant refurb shop or Abit's. I know it's a bs story to avoid loss on their end sticking it to Abit that's probably going to stick it to me. They told me that Abit wont talk me about the case due to confidentality agreement between them. They claim I have to call back in acouple more days till confirmation. I sense a two month process where I will wait and still have to pay more money for a board that costed me $80 + return shipping for $24. Next time I will pay the extra for newegg. Any helpful advice, p.s. sorry for the ranting(I'm stepping off my soapbox now)

by cactus pete

If you bought this with a credit card, inform the card issuer, perhaps they'll reverse the whole purchase and help you out.

Write to the local BBB for that company, file a claim. Also, you can send your story to various consumer advocates, the state may even have one of their own where you are.

MaximumPC also has an advocate called 'the dog' - he's pretty good at mediating and providing information about companies.

Go to http://www.bbb.org/ and look up the company's history, too. That might tell you something about where this is likely to go... Lots of places don't like to have a bad rating from the BBB, so a complaint from them might help you out.

by thechas

Sorry to hear that you had a problem with your new system.

I don't remember if I posted it in this thread, but anytime you work with a new retailer, it is a good idea to check out their return policy.

A-Bit is one of several manufactures that used a batch of bad electrolytic capacitors. These could fail catastrophically and cause a lot of damage.

I would contact A-Bit and see if the KD-7 may potentially have capacitors from the suspect lot.

If so, that can help if CDR rejects your claim.

Keep in mind that in the event of a catastrophic failure that the retailer will want to verify that the part failed normally, and did not fail from misuse or customer error.

For critical items such as motherboards, I will always spend a few dollars extra to purchase them from retailers I know and trust.

Chas

by guruofdos

And another thing...dirty great big electrolytics tend to stand proud on a lot of motherboards, and many OEM boards are packaged pretty poorly. I've had several where the capacitors have been 'knocked' in transit especially where they are just packed 20 to a case in anti-static bags!

Fortunately, I'm a dab hand with a soldering iron and have access to a first-class electronics workshop and in most cases it's easier for me to just replace a defective cap than it is to re-pack the board and send it back for a swap-out...naturally, this invalidates any warranty but sometimes, a fast repair means a system is up and running without undue delays and if the board behaves perfectly after a repair, it it more than likely to carry on working!

Just as an aside and COMPLETELY unrelated to the discussion...a short note of appreciation! I was recently awarded a 'prize' as one of the top ten contributors to the Forums in May this year...for some bizarre reason the judges thought my comments deserved some recognition (fancy that)!

I received a copy of TR's PC Troubleshooting Resource Guide and CD in the mail today and was delighted to see that you were credited in several places for your contributions. Well done, friend! Your words of wisdom are always noted by me and you've got me out of the poo more than once! I would have dropped you a line via the Peer Directory...but I can't seem to!

So...out loud and in PUBLIC....

'Much respect to TheChas!'

by mrbill-

Sorry about the probs you are having but
"2 cents anyone plz?
Thank you everyone... After two weeks it blew due to a defective *power supply* so I sent it back DOA. ... They informed me that there was damage to the board, memory clips damaged, but the box was in fine condition. As a result they are keeping my board for repair to determine abuse under warrantee whether they will fix or deny claim."

If the power supply was off the M/B then they have the right to test and fix or deny. Were you trying to overclock? Is the Power supply the right type/rating?

I hope things work out ok for you.

by jkaras

Yeah my roomate's abit board blew while we were away from the puter and believed that either his new board was defective or elect storm got passed the surge protector. He sent his out for repair due to it lasting past the 30 day warrantee. The repair was scheduled for a 10 week turnaround. I bought the same mobo to replace during the meantime. I didnt do anything to over clock ect.., while on the puter it died and saw the led lighted fan spark in it's death throws enlightening us to ps failure.I understand that it wasnt the boards problem, however the return policy within 25 days is the issue. I came clean saying that it was powering problems not doing anything modding or bios frying the board, it was just circumstance. We can debate whether ethics are involved in returns, but their returns policy to get a fair shake was delayed to avoid DOA replacement and stick me with a refurb and trying to wiggle out of the deal due to bs damage to mobo. They maintain that the box was in perfect condition other wise they would refuse package. I worked for UPS for years and can tell you that they get abused on a daily basis. Every time I contact or demand answers they give me different answers and "because there was damage" when they didnt see or have karnal knowledge till opening the box. They set up the RMA as repair prior to receiving while within DOA replacement. My only recourse is to contest charge. If I abused it doing modding or dropped it, that's a different story and would appreciate any help they would offer. This is about them loosing money playing the statistics forcing a fight or giving in. I hate the situation not anything anyone posts to my delimma and appreciate the input and advice that everyone has offered,thx.

by deadly ernest

Firtsly you do NOT have to go to the net to buy OEM, many wholesalers will also sell OEM gear.

The major difference between a retail pack and an OEM pack is that the OEM comes in a plain box with o or little instructions and the bare minimum needed for installation by a techie with his own tools. These are usually shipped from the factory in cases of set quantities, usually 50 or 100 or more to a case. So the factory sells them in quantity only. This is intended for someone who will build a quantity of PCs and then retail the PCs built.

The retail pack has the full instruction manual and a fancy display box to catch your attention. It also is usually sold from the factory in quantities of anywhere from 1 unit up, each order would generally be less than an OEM case amount. These are intended for single users to buy as extras for their existing PC. Many retaillers actually include an installation component in their retail selling price.

Some OEM packs can require different drivers as the OEM packs will usually have a more generic part number code to the retail pack and thus the same code can cover four or five product revision levels, whilst each revision will have a different code on the retail packs. This is usually not a big problem.

OEM is intended for use with new hardware and software only. If it is used or refurbished it should not be sold as OEM but as REBUILT or REFURBISHED and noted and costed different again.

by riverfreight

See the mfg. has all that s**t for years still in his warehouse that you ingrates didn't buy in the first place. { besides how do you know that you actually got 'the' mfgs. site?} NEXT: Who said that you are so high and mighty as to be allowed to build your own PC anyway? Humpfh! (Have you tried heathkit for the components?) FOR(e) is a term used in golf and against is a term I use with women - they don't even have to be particularlly pretty either [ what they are saying is: " You do this and you will have a better computer than I do and that you are even thinking of doing such a thing makes me jealous and I'm going to make you as miserable as I can 'cuz I'm sure I can't talk you out of nor will I be able to sell you any of my stuff once your up and going - Get security up hear with the hackers we want to be ready to chop in the minute this computer goes hot"]. PROFIT?? SUBSTANTIAL? Novice Plebian!
RIVER FREIGHT

by deadly ernest

Win XP pro is the full edition, and Win XP Home is the cut back versions. ME was the cut back version of Win 2K. Most software makers usually have Pro as the designation of the full version or a full version with something added.

by jim phelps

Unless you know a lot about this kind of thing, with lots of experience, I would go with a name brand PC, either new or refurbished. For example, Dell sells new and refurbished PCs on their website. Sometimes you can get a very good deal on a refurbished Dell, WITH a warranty.

A few years from now, when some critical part goes out, you can go on the Dell web site and find out exactly what was in there, so you can be sure of getting a compatible part.

Compaq puts a spare part number on EVERYTHING, and so if you match the spare part number, the part WILL work.

I've seen too many cases where the "no name" companies buy no-name junk parts for the PCs they sell, just to shave a few pennies off of their cost. What will you do when two years and one day have passed (i.e. the warranty has just expired), and your system board goes out, or your CPU needs replacing? Unless you are very savvy, you won't know for sure what will be compatible.

I know how this kind of thing works. Ihave seen lots of underhanded practices and outright lies on the part of some of these companies. (Not all, just some.)

I saw a case once where a friend of mine had purchased a computer with 8 megs of RAM (this was a while back!). He wanted to install more RAM. Guess what? There were 8 SIMM slots, and 8 1-MEG SIMMS installed! He either had to throw out some or all of the RAM he had, or he had to go back to the same guy he purchased the system from for a warranty upgrade!

I knew the guy who sold him the computer, and he was one of the kinds of dealers who would buy the cheapest junk he could find, to shave a few pennies off of his cost.

by deadly ernest

Here in Australia anyone who knows how to put in a RAm chip knows that you NEVER buy a name brand PC as you pay twice the money for half the capability. To go and buy a HP, Dell or IBM you generally have to buy from a large retailler. That means what is on the shop floor was bought by their purchasing people over 4 months ago and was based on a spec that was older still. Most Name brand purchases are 8 months or more out of date and priced as if they ahd the just released gear. I have seen namebrand Celeron 1.6 ghx being sold for the same money that you can by P4 2.4 ghx plane Janes.

If you know how to put a PC together and intend to do it yourself, then go with plane Jane and OEM because you are not going to get any sort of warranty over the manufacturer's warranty on each item unless you are a qualified tech.

by jim phelps

I'd say that if you do put one together yourself, stick with name brand parts, and make sure you document everything. These are the two deficiencies of "clone" pcs here in the US.

Many of the big PC companies (e.g. Dell) will sell you one of their own PCs, refurbished, with a warranty. I've seen some very good prices on their web site. Perhaps Dell doesn't sell refurbs in Australia? (I don't know, I'm just asking)

by thechas

While I do recommend Dell PCs to anyone who wishes to buy a name brand PC, ALL US name brand PCs seriously compromise performance to save a few dollars on price.

The majority of name brand PCs are functionally limited to web surfing and word processing.

By the time you spec out a Dell that will have decent performance for graphics arts or games, you will end up spending a lot more than you can for a roll-your-own, or at a local PC shop.

It sounded to me that the original posting was from someone who was looking to move on to the next level, and was looking to make wise choices.

I would not be surprised if a sales person at a big name retail store would tell a potential customer that OEM parts are of lesser quality than the retail parts.

Yes, your concern about no-name parts is valid. But, looking at the costs of CD, floppy and other components, getting a replacement in the future should not be an issue or concern.

Chas

by jim phelps

>Yes, your concern about no-name parts is valid. But, looking at the costs of CD, floppy and other components, getting a replacement in the future should not be an issue or concern.

I was asked to fix a PC once. It wouldn't boot. I narrowed it down to either the motherboard or the CPU. Everything in it was "no-name". I'm a pretty good tech, and I couldn't tell which caused the problem, and so it was either purchase one or the other part and try it, or purchase a new PC. And I couldn't tell which CPU or motherboard I might try, since it was all no-name stuff.

If I were a better tech, perhaps I could have interpreted what to buy based on numbers, etc., on the chip or motherboard. But I KNOW I could have known what to get if it had been a Dell or a Compaq.

If it is my home PC, then there probably is no problem in putting a PC together yourself. But in a large corporate setting (my background), I would definitely go with the name brand, because the cost of maintenance would be greatly reduced with the name brand PCs.

by mrafrohead

You also asked about good sites with good experiences.

I can give you two that are outstanding. They are all I will buy from, as they stand by their products and don't screw with you if you get something bunk.

http://www.newegg.com

That's my favorite, GREAT service, fast shipping and the best prices.

http://www.tccomputers.com

This is second, only because of price. Even better service, good shipping, but a little more expensive than Newegg.

Mrafrohead

I can guarantee you I can get you better prices, but is it worth the hassle? These two are amazing!

by deadly ernest

The only way you get a refurbished Dell here in Aust is to buy a 2nd hand one a refurbish it yourself. Dell, HP etc only sell new here.

Parts are a mixed lot but most items are known brands (ie ASUS, ABIT, GIGABYTE, Nvidia, Creative, IBM, Seagate, Maxtor, Intel, AMD, etc) for most componets but power supplies, cases, keyboards, speakers and mice you have a real grab bag of choices (and some names change weekly).

However, most reputable suppliers will replace faulty gear from any supplier within the warranty. Some will even give an extended warranty if you buy components for a full system and have them put it together or it is put together by a qualified tech that they have checked out. One of the best suppliers in my area is www.cougar.com.au (DON'T FORGET the AU or you end up at a Colorado Ranch), check them out and you can see the sort of range we get here.

by jim phelps

Go to the following web site:

http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfb/default.htm

It is found by following the link to "Small Business" purchases, having first indicated that you are in the United States.

There you will find refurbished systems for sale, with warranties.

I searched the Australia Dell web site, but I found nothing for Refurbished systems.

I checked your "Cougar" web site, and you're right -- there is a tremendous amount of apparently good quality parts and supplies there.
The reason I suggested to the original poster that he purchase a name-brand system was based on the kind of advice he was seeking. He didn't seem like someone who was an expert in this field. And as you probably know, if you don't know what you're doing when trying to assemble a PC from scratch, you'll probably make some mistakes, including not documenting exactly what you purchased, and how to contact manufacturers in case of failure down the road (so you can obtain compatible parts).

Hardly anyone I know documents that kind of information, except for the major PC manufacturers. It is all on their website for you to refer to later.

Interesting to see this difference between two similar countries.

by jim phelps

One other advantage to buying a referb: I CAN GET OFF-WHITE, INSTEAD OF BLACK! I'm really tired of having black or gray forced on my by virtually EVERY PC manufacturer.

Last year my wife purchased a new Dell, but kept her old monitor. The black ugly Dell sits on the floor -- "out of sight, out of mind"!

by thechas

XP Pro is definitely the better version of XP to install. Unless, you never plan to network the PC.

The Plus! pack for XP includes some 'light' versions of other commercial software packages from Microsoft partners.

The Serene Scene Aquarium screen saver and the Hyperbowl game are both 'light' or limited versions meant to entice you to buy the full retail versions of both.

Chas

by mrbill-

If it was during the 30 day warrantee period then thy should fix it. I am sorry to assume anything out of the norm, forgive me. It just was not plan by the time I read all the posts, sort of got myself lost. Again I am sorry to accuse anyone of miss-doings. Good luck on your quest.

by jkaras

Hey Bill,
after I sent that post I wondered if it came off harsh. I know you werent accusing me of scamming the site but tried to clarify my point that we as consumers face when dealing with sites for ecommerce. I admit that my parts contributed to the failure but my beef with them is their return policy when referring to the ethics of the returns. I as usual began to froth at the mouth jumping up and down on my soapbox when describing my situation. No ill thoughts were intended towards you.As some can attest to, I'm sarcastic and only rarely argue tooth and nail with the others unless it warrants it. I do play nice and not so nice at times. I seriously appreciate your input good or bad, we all have opinions and opinions are not facts but points of view that we all learn to be more than what we are through interaction. If apoligies are in order it is my responsibility, I'm sorry and look forward to any debate that we can interact for or against one another.

by mrbill-

No problem, you are, as I am, only human (I hope) and as such are allowed to express your thoughts and opinions as you see fit, just don't fall off the soapbox and hurt yourself ok. I have not posted to this site much, just started recently, but have got into some good discusions with a few folks. All have been civilised so far and I pray it stays that way. I'll have to hold my tongue the most.

Any luck with the return yet?

by hal 9000

here in Australia the big boys in the computer industry don't rule like they do in the States over here most computers are built by the small guys and the companies like Dell, HP, Gateway and the like are the bit players because the small shops can offer abetter service than the multi-nationals. So for that reason Dell doesn't sell refurbs they off load all their ex lease units to specalists who sell these units at redicilious prices like $500.00 AU with all the bits and pieces and loaded with Windows whatever and all the nice software but without the install disks. How they get away with this is beyond me because Microsoft is pushing hard and quite a few local companies have been taken to court for selling secondhand computers without theinstall disks. Mostlyhowever MS launches Court action and these are settled out of court with the companies name and the properiter being named in a MS "Enforcment Bulletin" which I recieve a copy of at least every two weeks. Now I'm not apposed to someone ripping off MS getting caught but it is going a bit far when you get a reputable company selling off 10 tradeins a year agreeing to pay MS $250.000 AU just because the second hand units didn't have the install disks.

by deadly ernest

Sorry Jim, but even handling name brand PCs you usually need to be able to find the manufacturer via the numbers painted on the motherboard because most of the name brand people buy their motherboards from the same manufacturer's as you get from thegeneral shops.

With experience you can recognise which numbering sequence beleongs to which manufacturer, but without it you just visit a few sites via a google search and they will tell you who made it.

My experience with working on Dell and HP machines is that I get better info re the motherboard by identifying who made the board and going direct to Gigabyte etc.

by jim phelps

>Now I'm not apposed to someone ripping off MS getting caught but it is going a bit far when you get a reputable company selling off 10 tradeins a year agreeing to pay MS $250.000 AU just because the second hand units didn't have the install disks.

Colin: Thanks for the info.

I assume that the Australian dollar isn't much different in value than the US dollar.

Neither am I opposed to punishing someone who rips off Microsoft, or any other company. The thing about Microsoft, however, is that they use their massive power and influence to intimidate others.

Did you know that Microsoft is intimidating public school systems here in the US to switch to an ANNUAL licensing fee, rather than a one-time fee, with their currently owned software? I used to work for a school system, and I lost my job partly because this intimidation from Microsoft raised their cost. They could no longer afford my salary. The last project I worked on there was to install ZenWorks on all PCs, so that they could at a moment's notice get a systemwide inventory of all software. The Microsoft rep implied that the Microsoft lawyers would be coming after them if they either didn't switch to the annual fee, or if they couldn't prove, at a moment's notice, that they weren't pirating software.

Things like this cause me to privately (and sometimes publically) rejoice when someone "gets away with it" vs. Microsoft, even though what they did was wrong.

I wonder why Dell, Compaq, or whoever "unloaded" the "refurbs" wasn't also found guilty.

by jim phelps

>With experience you can recognise which numbering sequence beleongs to which manufacturer, but without it you just visit a few sites via a google search and they will tell you who made it.

You're probably right. My background is almost all bigcorporations, where they have a team of technicians doing hardware and software support. Rarely do you find clones. You almost always find name brand computers everywhere. Cost is not a factor, because the corporation has a budget and they will spend what is necessary to fix the PCs.

It is VERY nice to simply give the Compaq spare parts number to a vendor, and they then ship you the EXACT part you need. In fact, this ease of maintenance saves a lot of money to the company, when you consider that they have some turnover in the techincian force, and they have a massive number of desktop PCs.

For a small company, your way is probably the best way. However, for a huge corporate operation, such as a major oil company, I still believethat the name brands are the way to go.

Thanks for your reply.

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