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Okay Max, I think I'll side with you on this election.

By Oz_Media ·
I sat and watched the US presidential debate #2 for the thrid time last night (I have a copy on my hard drive for reference).

This time, I decided to watch it from a US citizen's perspective, in the past I have always looked upon the US candidates from a foreign perspective, with my interest focused solely on foriegn policy. I figure internal issues don't effect me as directly and those are really YOUR issues to be concerned about.

But from these two perspectives, I see two completely different results.

a) From a foreign policy perspective, McCain scares me, as does his henchwoman Palin (eeew, she makes my skin crawl that one).

b) From a US perspective, I think McCain can implement his plan and Obama is all talk and no action.

Character, it is sorta relevant afterall.

McCain, I love this guy, what a great father figure and a patient, seeming, person. Patient seeming means he can be as short and curt as he needs to be, but doesn't carry himself as such. There was something i just couldn't pinpoint though, "Who does this guy remind me of?" then it came to me, body language and mannerisms, he's Rich Little doing a George Burns impression! Once it came ot me, I couldn't help but laugh while watching his high shouldered, elbows bent, wide motionless mouthed approach to his delivery. He's a keeper for sure! Rich Little for president.

I find that he has dwelled on the "94 votes against" rebuttal issue a bit too much though, he should let that one die and retain his chracter credibility, everyoe knows who Obama is by now.

I think he has a far more realistic domestic policy approach, he shows himself as a man with experience. While I am sure that being in office is a VERY fast learning process and interns become veterans very quickly, I think he's a natural for such a post, whereas Obama seems a little green. Being new isn' ta bad thing, but whenever Obama is hit with a pressing question for rebuttal, he gets very anxious. YOu can always tell when he' scaught off guard as his voice raises, though he deliberately tries to slow down, and he starts to stutter, look for words and sound insecure/unsure of himself. This indicates he's either making it up, or wary that he needs to be hiding something.

McCain on the other hand, gets caught out and offers rhetoric replies but does so with style. He is cool as a cucumber, and seems to have become that way due to his time in the senate.

But, McCain does try to play on teh fence. He commented several times that he "reaches across" to the democrats and doesn't seek to oppose their every word. He tried to instill his 'middle ground' (which I think America really needs) by making statements like, "even my own party doesn't like me sometimes" (as he reaches across for democratic input).

But being the cynic i am, I find some question in that too. Sure he may 'reach across' but is that simply to ask for THEIR ideas or try to instill HIS ideas in THEM? Looked upon from a bullying viewpoint, it isn't as pretty, though i think that is a bit far fetched too.

So as for an AMERICAN voting on Us policies, I am in favour of McCain. I ALMOST like his foreign policy but it is obvious that his views toward Iraq have been instilled in him by the wishes of his party and they don't seem to reflect his personality, which I believe is quite genuine. He has a big chip on his shoulder and I think he is wary of redeploying troops to Afghanistan because he sees it as runnign in fear and doesn' twant America to 'look' that way, which he said in a few more words himself.

Obama on the other hand, has a good view towards foreign policy. Get American soldiers back with ALLIED soldiers and in Afghanistan, where your true enemy still thrives, exists and plots against America. In fact if I was American that woul dbe a key concern too, terrorists are plotting against you and doing so with more freedom than citizens in Iraq have. (see 'Heavy Metal in Iraq' for more on that).

so when it all comes down to it, there are still two sides but I see them as clearly defined.

1) If you are an American that is focused on teh war in Iraq above all else, Obama is your best bet.

2) If you are focused on internal policy, federal budget and the economic crisis in teh USA, McCain stands out on his own (even with his crony Pailn at his side).

From an outside perspective, I'd still have to choose Obama but only because McCain fails to recognize the real state of affairs in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Character? McCain all the way.
Foregn relations? I'd still go with McCain as he is closer to the age of his peers from other nations and should have a more natural dialigue with them.

I just wish McCain had more realistic views of Iraq, or was at least speaking his own mind and not simply parroting the words of his party. There is a clear difference in his tone between his thoughts and what he SHOULD be saying. Unfortunately what he SHOULD be saying interferes with what he wants to say and it indicates that he does toe the line of the party and does not always speak his mind.

With the sensitivity of the war, I am confident he's been coached, whereas his internal policy is a no brainer and they leave him to tackle Obama with little coaching.


So there ya have it, I actually sided with Republicans, IF I was American and the war on terrorism wasn't my key focus.

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Okay - Good analysis

by maxwell edison In reply to Okay Max, I think I'll si ...

I loved the Rich Little doing George Burns analogy. How can you dislike either one of those guys? (Isn't Rich Little a Canadian?)

In so many ways, it comes down to judgment, and in my book, that means McCain - hands down. (I also believe McCain when he's so adamant about his desire to get Osama bin Laden. I think he'll do what it takes to make it happen.)

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concur

by Oz_Media In reply to Okay - Good analysis

But I am just not confident on McCain's foreign policy. Not to beat a dead horse, but he said everything BUT "more of the same". It seems he has no interest in resolving the conflict and focusing on your real enemies, as his pride simply does not allow him too. I can respect that mindset but only so far, I think he needs to be a wee bit mroe humble and start to look at ways to end it. He appears to say , everything isn't so bad, things are getting better. When they really aren't, in fact Iraqi's now have less freedom than they did under Saddam, they have been fleeing Baghdad thousands per day to claim refugee status in Syria and other neighbouring countries. They then contact family that stayed in Baghdad only to be told to stay put and start a new life, things are getting much worse in Baghdad. It really is a DIRE situation there and the US is doing anything but help matters as their presence fuels the insurgents, which have risen from every corner of the world, not for Jihad but to take shots at Americans because Americans are in Iraq.

I'll tell you Max, you really should watch Heavy Metal in Baghdad; its as much about life in Iraq before and during the war, as it is music, in fact it has little to do with music beyond a group TRYING to play music.

I know we have heard how the press is not giving us the whole story but it seems we are getting a lot less than even part of the truth.

For instance, the NYT reported that there was partying and singing and rejoicing going on in Iraq, a while after the allied occupation, but actually singers were flogged and killed. Most managed to leave, they come up with a 85% number somehow but most others were shot. It just casts a different light on a similar reality. Perhaps there was singing and rejoicing but it was short lived and not the mainstream.

This article for example: http://hnn.us/articles/934.html
illustrates how Sunnis and Shiites are religiously bound to be at war with one another. Whereas the young guys in the video state that this isn't even a religious war, it is just sold as one. He said most Muslims in Iraq are not devout Muslims, there is no Jihad that everyone is fighting and he himself is a Sunni married to a Shiite lady (or vice versa).

I know its just one opinion but it is the opnion of a 20 something youth who was living in Baghdad and now is a refugee in Syria. His small computer store, with the band's rehearsal space in the basement, was bombed out and his friends have been killed, he is living the war that we are just told about, so his words have some merit, as does the video footage, what was allowed of it anyway.

As it sits, it will not end unless they can do it themselves.

American presence is not going to end the conflict though, no matter how long you stay and how many people are killed, innocent or not. PERHAPS a full allied coalition would have overwhelmed the terrorists which keep coming in in droves, but not simply the US/UK presence.

sorry for the segue, but I honestly think you'd really be interested in a movie about Iraq's only heavy metal band it really was well made.


Just download a torrent copy, nobody's looking.

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Are you feeling ok, Oz?

by AV . In reply to Okay Max, I think I'll si ...

You're actually agreeing with Max?!? It must be the full moon.

Thats a good analysis of the race, but I don't agree that McCain's views on Iraq are coached or that the views of his party matter to him that much. He was always a strong proponent of the surge strategy, even when it was a very unpopular idea in both parties. He's his own man.

AV

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He's his own man

by maxwell edison In reply to Are you feeling ok, Oz?

Absolutely correct. He certainly does not fall in-line to the party line. I don't always agree with what he does, but he does forsake self-interest for what he considers the best thing to do.

There's one in which he and I are in total agreement, and that's the BIG PICTURE concerning our current war. (BIG PICTURE is something very few people can see.)

Moreover, someone (or someones) is (are) pulling Barack Obama?s strings - no doubt about it. However, no one?s pulling McCain?s strings.

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I almost see that

by Oz_Media In reply to [i]He's his own man[/i]

As I think I made pretty clear in my original post, I think McCain is pretty good at furthering his own agenda and, like he says, isn't always moving in the best interests of his party.
However when speaking regarding the war, it really sounds canned and not natural.

He is short and somewhat curt with his plan and really sounds like he has his own agenda but is speaking on behalf of what people need to hear or what he has been told is in his best interests as the election nears.

I think he is sincere, thus my change of views and I would actually vote for him if i was American or even if he was running here (that'd be a change for the Canadian books for sure!). I just didn't pick up the same emotion and sincerity regarding his Iraq comments (though he did speak with SOME personal conviction and passion I suppose), his tone and body language completely changed too.


Note: Conservatives just won a minority in Canada, well it doesn't look like they'll get the majority anyway. I think calling a premature election actually went against them this time, it seems the Quebecois have some issues still and they gave up a lot of votes for a former Conservative that is now with the Liberal party. Bloc du Quebecois(sp?)party didn't do as well in Quebec as I had though though. Time for them to separate. (We have quick , quiet elections here, a lot less fuss and media attention.

In Canada, if you blink you'll miss out on your vote and have to wait for the next election). They are just lucky it wasn't on a hockey night. Hockey Night in Canada would have really reduced the polls and the number of people watching too. Canucks, gotta love 'em, no doot aboot it!

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The BIG Picture

by AV . In reply to [i]He's his own man[/i]

I do think McCain sees the BIG picture as far as the war goes. He is, afterall, a military man from a military family. Here's a man that said he "would rather lose a campaign than lose a war". He's willing to stick his neck out and live or die by his decisions. That takes guts and this country needs his experience right now to get out of Iraq the right way.

I think the BIG picture is how you can turn the war into a success for the US and Iraq. We will lose all if we leave that country in chaos. Its a real utopian idea that we can just pull out.

I think McCain sees the BIG picture and have no doubt he could successfully manage a happy ending to Iraq and Afghanistan. I have no doubt he would go into the gates of **** to get Osama Bin Laden.

I've always thought that Obama was controlled by some really powerful interests. I just don't know who those people are. He's perfect for that. Looks good, talks a good game, but has some really questionable associations that we won't talk about.

He didn't make it this far based on his record of achievements, so how did he do it? Marketing. for one. He's JFK reincarnated. He is the savior, the Messiah. I think Obama owes alot of people. Somewhere in there, he has paid a huge price for Bill and Hill's endorsement of his campaign.

AV

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I think McCain is getting his a$$ kicked right now

by w2ktechman In reply to The BIG Picture

What do you think?

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I think his chances of winning are slim, right now

by AV . In reply to I think McCain is getting ...

People hate Bush, the economy is in the toilet and people want change, real bad. None of that plays in John McCain's favor, but still, you can't ever count him out until election night. He's been left for dead before in this campaign.

AV

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Sorry AV

by w2ktechman In reply to I think his chances of wi ...

I was hoping to have this discussion while the debate was going on. At this point I thought he was sinking bad -- kept hanging on to the whole dirty campaign things.
Soon afterwards he re-focused on actual issues and put on a better debate.

I didnt count him out, but at this point in the debate (about 25 min into it) he was sinking quick

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Ozzie, take both candidates' proposals with a large grain of salt

by CharlieSpencer In reply to Okay Max, I think I'll si ...

Regardless of who wins, he's got to convince Congress to introduce and pass legislation supporting his policies. One way to view the contest is to judge which one will be more successful in working with Congress, both within his party and across the aisle, and whether you regard that candidate's potential for successful compromise as a good thing.

Personally, I think McCain has a better chance of this. I haven't yet decided if that's good or bad.

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