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Paper Certifications?

Good day,

Certifications should only be available to IT professionals who are currently employed in the IT environment for at least two years -- maybe more.

It should be a "Professional Certification" to enhance the already established IT professional's credentials.

It should not be a paper thingy.

How would you like to go to a "certified" nurse practitioner who has NEVER touched a patient? or a "certified" Public Accountant who has never ran the books of a company?

Get real you IT people out there!

We all let the money people BS us into diluting our only professional certifications down to the point where they are now almost meaningless.

Shame on us.

Micro Computer Coordinator

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agreed, disagreed

by theq In reply to Paper Certifications?

I agree with your point here. I wouldn't want a nurse practioner who has never touched a patient, practicing on me! They might inadvertantly cut out my spleen.

I however also disagree with you. Sometimes the certifications are a way into IT field. Cert first, experience later. Althought it is better to get the experience, then the cert. Take A+ for example, I recently got my A+, if there was a minimum requirement of being proffesional for 2 years, I would never have been able to get my cert. as all my experience is at home. I haven't worked for an IT company yet, so I have no credentials, other than the A+ cert now.

Most certifications are a standard piece of paper saying that you know how to perform a certain task, wether your a pro or not! A certifiation gets dilute, and loses it professionalism as the market gets more and more populated with MCSE, CNE, CCNA, etc...

It is a scary thought that there are people out there that have certs that dont know a damn thing about computers, but we have to give them a chance. How can they prove themselves and enhance the knowledge behind the cert, unless given the chance? Home knowledge doesnt cut it anymore.

-Mark Carman

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Learned at Home

by JBane In reply to agreed, disagreed

Certification for those of us who learned everything we know at home is the only way to get recognized in the IT industry. There are plenty of us home geeks that know our S*** and to say that you need 2 years experience in a professional IT envirment is BS. That is out only avenue of acceptance anymore. Home experience counts for nothing these days.

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Can't agree completely

by walterzalewski In reply to Learned at Home

Having different levels of certification might be better, say you have one group of certifications for those without experience. Then another for those with a certain amount of experience.

Everyone has to keep in mind that certification means only one thing, that the person received training in a particular area. Only foolish employers are going to hire someone with only a certification and no working experience in a high level position. However, it is a good way of getting your foot in the door(entry level), as everyone has to start somewhere. Otherwise, how do you get that 2 yrs. experience if you can't even start.

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It's not that easy

by bmccabe In reply to Can't agree completely

Lets face it - Someone without experience IS NOT going to get a high-level certification such as an MCSE or CNE. A+ or an MCP is possible to get without experience, but certs such as MCSE is not going to be achieved without hands-on experience. I am currently (slowly) working my way to my MCSE and believe me - Experience helps! If someone feels that a person with a low-level cert (A+, MCP-Win 9x)is a threat, he/she should get a life!

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Laughing at pompus behavior

by gatorman In reply to It's not that easy

You guys all make me laugh..the discussion on who has what qualifications is ridiculous. In my short term in the IT field I have been witness to 20 yr so called pro's who didn't know how to look up a IP address to paper CNE's not knowing what the default tree and context is. I also know there is a lot of smart "paperboy" and real smart pro's with no certs at all. Who gives a rats ***...the bottom line is that 1.) serve the customer 2.) If you don't know something ask and learn 3.) A person canknow a lot but he or she doesn't know everything.
So eat the weak......

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Hear, Hear

by incent In reply to Laughing at pompus behavi ...

right on gatorman, experience and certification both has its place but u cant buy knowledge, u have to get in there and get it all over yr face! the whole problem is technology is in such a dynamic frenzy that both experience and certification are kinda like 'notches on a barrel of gun' - only good till the next kill :)

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Are most MCSEs Theory Smart ?

by GNX In reply to Laughing at pompus behavi ...

I have about 16 years in IT. My certification is in Computer Operations on Mainframes (long ago obselete). I learned mostly everything I know about computers on the job on both the PC, AS/400 and IBM mainframe. The MCSE we have on staff asks me alot of questions about simple stuff he should already know. I am not sure if I want to even get MCSE certified as the technology is constantly changing.

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MCSE Theory Smart

by RustPicker In reply to Are most MCSEs Theory Sma ...

Very good point Dash. I too have been in the IT industry all my adult life, starting with Mainframe Operations (while serving in the U.S. Navy) and migrating to the various platforms as they have shrunk over the years. Before I retired from the Navyin 98, I went out (with very little formal classroom trianing) and became A+ certified, and then later ACT. Because of all those years dealing with Networks and Telecom (everything from running cables drops to LAN/WAN administrator), does that makeme anything less than an IT professional? I sure hope not. Some of the best engineers I've ever known have zero certifications and can run circles around those that do... and do it in a very "humble" manner! IMHO, certification education is a greatfor those swtiching career fields, but it's very expensive, and will continue to leech our pocketbooks. And I do know this... somebody out there is getting very healthy in the IT certification field, therefore, there will always be certification requirements.

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Theory Smart MCSE

by Pedro Sousa In reply to Are most MCSEs Theory Sma ...

I have 7 years in IT, mainly teatching other technicians. Last year, and after a lot of years of study and experimenting, I had my exams for the MCSE. Done it all in 3 months, mainly because of some experience I had and HARD study. But reading and taking an exam doesn't make me an expert.
I agree certs give people a "door" to begin in IT professions, but the experience and hard work makes you good in your job.
Something that is stuck in my trouth is that now I've got my cert, Microsoft forcesme to update to Win2K until the end of this year.
So why have I spent my money and time studying for the exams, just to have to do them again.... Because my line of work makes me be certified (Have the damn paper) I have to do it.....
Dispite this, experience and study makes you good, and IF YOU DON'T KNOW SOMETHING ASK. Nobody borns with knoledge, evebody has to learn from someone (If with a book, remember someone wrote it). So ASK, LEARN and DO IT.

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No ...

by Chuck L In reply to Are most MCSEs Theory Sma ...

It is my experience that many if not most MCSEs are not theory-smart. Theory is not necessary to pass MCSE exams. Just know what to click on, and when. That's why an MCSE certified in IIS may be able to click his way into setting up the FTP server, but given everything he needs to perform the same task on a non-MS server (and I mean EVERYTHING -- settings, what commands to run, full docs, and total access to the network), that person may wind up lost. It's not a matter of "I don't know Unix" or"I don't know MAC" or "I don't know AS/400." It's a matter of not having enough theory and base knowledge to transfer what you're doing on one machine to another -- even when you have all the "how-to" you need for the "other" machine.

It used to be that GUIs, Wizards and all these other "intelligent" systems allowed computer USERS to better use computers without having to spend thousands of hours learning the systems ... Now we have computer PROFESSIONALS pointing and clicking their way around computers without ever really knowing what they're doing ...


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