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  • #2249054

    Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

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    by leee ·

    In yesterday’s New York Times “The Ethicist” column, Randy Cohen advised a tech who wanted to know what to do about the discovery of child/”early teens” porn on the boss’ computer. In the words of the tech, “Must I call the police? I think so, but I need my job.”

    Cohen suggested various scenarios regarding how the pictures wound up on the boss’ hard drive and placed the larger blame on the producers of the pictures, but in the end, advised: “Because this material is on [the company’s] computer, the firm risks prosecution. But short of calling the cops, your options are few. Nor would deleting the pictures eliminate all legal risk; that could be seen as destroying evidence. Your best recourse? Alas, silence.”

    Thoughts?

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    • #3288196

      Ah, the “reign of silence”

      by mt pilgrim ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      I hate to admit it, but it would seem silence is the best course of action, particularly if it is someone much further up the food chain than your immediate supervisor. Depending on your relationship with the (Assumed…) “guilty” party and the nature of the contraband (child vs. straight porn), you may be able to off-handedly comment about how “certain items should be cleaned before you pass back through on your cleaning sweep” after notifying either your boss or H/R of the situation to cover your own backside.

      While this does not excuse you from responsibilities when it comes to porn images of children, unless you are absolutely iron-clad certain as to the origins of the contraband you are playing Russian Roulette with an automatic instead of a revolver with your career.

      I’d have to say that I would monitor the individual’s computer for evidence of further infractions. If this occurs then you are justified in going back to H/R (where there is already a record of your concern – as well, hopefully as your own detailed account of the steps taken by yourself…) and putting the ball in their lap(s).

      • #3216678

        HR?

        by jterry ·

        In reply to Ah, the “reign of silence”

        You talk as if you think HR would have his back in case things went wrong. In every company I have been in HR was there to protect the company, not the employee. I would take my chances with the police before HR.

        • #2927639

          HR….Hmmm

          by debposton ·

          In reply to HR?

          I had to terminate an employee because of this same issue and HR called the local police. Why should we keep silent because he/she is the boss??? I was quoted chapter and verse of the law…I was told terminate or be terminated. He (x-employee) was a hell of worker..just during downtime …he like to look. I am not condoning his behavior but we all have issues.

          What is good for low-level staff should be good of upper-level management!

        • #2927564

          Wish that were always true…

          by morrisntex ·

          In reply to HR….Hmmm

          And we often see it matters “who you know” as well. Look back at what happened in that case at the Mass. Law school where those 2 third party contractor’s tech’s were canned for things supposedly not related to them finding child porn on a Senior professor’s computer.
          Both tech’s had top performance reviews until they reported what they found, then they were fired within months for supposedly “bad” work performance…

          Both Tech’s were basically “blacklisted” from IT related work around the Boston area (I think it was partly due to the publicity surrounding the case).

          Something I’ve noticed in some of the other posts here is folks calling the tech “nosy”, but for many service organizations it is common to make a backup of any personal & company related data off the computer being worked on. That’s how the above techs came across the pictures in question. The backup procedure flagged a hidden directory full of JPG files and just from the names on some of the pictures the techs became suspicious after confirming what they were they called their supervisors who told them to keep it to themselves, then the techs called the FBI.

    • #3288195

      It depends on how the pics were seen

      by w2ktechman ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      If I was on a service call to work on a system, and it was an unavoidable act to find these pictures, then I would inform management, or an security or manager.

      If I accidentally found it, or it was in a place that I should not have found it (or would need to look for it), I probably would not have run into it. In that case I would’nt know about it.

      But the majority of the time I disregard pictures and they stay private for the individual.
      However, I know someone who has been asked (as a contractor) to search a HDD for all Porn and print it out before. This manager accidentally printed a bunch and forgot to pick it up from the printer. Lol — stupid mistake.
      Anyway, he refused (as I would have) and forced the company to use its own internal security team for this.

    • #3288166

      Child / early teens porn?? Simple

      by drowningnotwaving ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      If indeed it is child or early teens porn, then something must be done.

      If it is the “boss” (i.e. CEO) then call the police.

      What’s the worse point – losing the job or possibly (by lack of intervention) encourage the exploitation of kids? Look in the mirror and ask yourself, in 25 years time, which of those choices is going to make your memories easier to deal with?

      If it is a lesser boss then tell the CEO, HR Manager or someone else in authority, diarise the discussion and get your diary note witnessed by a (I think in the US you call them public notaries, in our world we call them Justices of the Peace).

      If it is not child porn and the guy hasn’t been forwarding it around to other people inappropriately then they’ll deal with it. If it is child porn then it’s a different world altogether.

      • #3216576

        Maybe, maybe not

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to Child / early teens porn?? Simple

        When do YOU go through pictures in private directories on coworkers computer?

        This “tech” clearly has his own ethics issues to deal on top of determining the real age of the models. His job is toast if he says anything, because he is in a violation of his position looking at data that was not his to check out. What if this had been confidential information?

        I would not want this tech working with or for me. (provided there really was a tech. I do NOT believe there was, and it is just a made up story.)

        • #3216476

          Good points

          by drowningnotwaving ·

          In reply to Maybe, maybe not

          Yes the tech is in rock v hard place land.

          Perhaps that is his/her penance – ie losing the job.

          I now think your made-up story has a lot of legs, too.

          Isn’t it a habit, I heard somewhere, of ethicists to put out a story of moral principle, just to gather research about other people’s reactions?

          ‘Cos you have to be guessing the reaction to a kiddy-porn story is going to be reasonably universal. Can’t really imagine too many public votes of empathy?

          I’m learning all the time.

        • #3224134

          But….

          by tburgess ·

          In reply to Maybe, maybe not

          In my experience, most companies have a clearly stated policy that anything on a company asset is open to review at any time by members of the IT staff.

          As such a staffer, I am empowered and directed to look for situations out of the norm that might indicate comprimising situations for the company. Things like file sharing, porn, trade thefts, etc. cost companies millions per year.

          If the tech, hypothetically or not, found unusual file sizes, hidden partitions, mismatched disk sizes or any number of other red flags, and the company has such a policy as I mention, he was “duty bound” to investigate.

          Once a violation was suspected, then the policy would likely direct the tech to contact HR, Information Protection, IT, VP or other for a determination on where to go next.

          If the company is so small they don’t have such policies, it is hard and likely a loose/loose situation for the tech. I agree with another poster however, that in 25 years, what will really matter? His integrity or his silence? I think the answer is clear.

          I would strongly suggest to any tech out there, that you intimately know your companies SOP and what you can and are expected to do in such situations. If no such policy exists, draft one and submitt to management. Your computer assets at work are FOR WORK. Not for your personal use. Remember you are being paid to do a job! Do your job. Leave personal things OFF work computers. PERIOD! And if you’re in to such things as kiddy porn, be afraid…very very afraid! Your day or reckoning is coming!!

        • #3224124

          We don’t have that information

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to But….

          about anything suspicious, and what little we were given states the exact opposite.

          The “internet tech” only states that he is installing a new software package.

          He does not state why he is snooping in his bosses personal pictures or give anything to validate his time spent snooping through his bosses computer. There was no talk at all about being suspicious of his bosses activity.

          I still do not buy this as anything more than to push the discussion out and get the writer some face time.

          If we ignore the logic of the tech should be fired for snooping through company assets, we get to the point of pics he THINKS MIGHT be girls under 18. Are they really under 18, and are they actually porn? We had a discussion on here where someone found (again, on a bosses computer? I see a trend?) underage girls in swimwear. Inappropriate, but not illegal?

          If there is VALID concern that the PICTURES are indeed illegal, as I said elsewhere, get off the system NOW and call HR. Don’t do anything until you have a witness, and even then don’t do anything but call the authorities. Like I also said, I would even be afraid to make a disk image for evidence as I do not know what the legal aspects of that are, because now YOU are duplicating illegal material.

        • #2927579

          Past Experience – Company (or school) Policies

          by lewisd3 ·

          In reply to But….

          This may be a liitle of the point, but I think it gives a good example of Company or Gov policy.

          Some years back my son was at a PUBLIC SCHOOL daycare center. He is one of the A.D.H.D. kids (6 – 7 yrs old) who was always in trouble, whether he was guilty or not.

          We were called into over a situation where he supposedly was asking littel girls to play doctor (curiosity type stuff).

          We were told that BY LAW, our son had to be reported to Protective Services. The principle also said that he would have to be removed from the daycare and that he would be watched very carefully during school for any other such activities.

          We know our son and knew that he is no angel but we had our doubts on this.

          We enlisted the help of a prof. independent child counsoler. and found out was that it was very likely that another “older” boy who was not even mentioned by the principal all, who was behind it.

          After we brought back the “official” written report to the school, the principle was floored. Her comment was “This is impossible. I know this family personally.”

          Nothing more was said about our son’s involvement. In fact, he suddenly was a model student.

          We pulled our son from that school system shortly after all of this and sent him to a private school.

          What we found out later was:

          1. Someone called the private school to warn them about our son.

          2. Through a relative who works for P.S. we found out that NOTHING was ever reported about the other boy involved.

          So much for responsibiblity, policy and the law.

        • #3223951

          ….there is no excuse for child porn!

          by servicetech ·

          In reply to Maybe, maybe not

          Lets say an individual brings his laptop in for service. It won’t boot they say. One of the first things I look at is if any Malware/Spyware was installed. Then any unauthorized programs. During this checkout process I always try to get rid of temp files, cached info and other junk that piles up. Let’s say that during this process, I discover porn photos. The very first thing I would do is to get my supervisor involved. I then document the existance and if possible determine if this was a result of the users actions or something else.
          I have seen accidental downloads and I’ve seen intentional downloads but I can tell you this; if it was intentional and a minor was involved they would be in court defending themselves!

          As for your statement that it wasn’t his data to check out. If it’s on an agency laptop or desktop PC then I have the authority to view any files on any PC that I have access to. Our equipment and data is owned by the agency NOT the individual.

          Now I’ve seen personal data that should not be on our systems. I’ve seen programs installed that should not be there. Most of the time I’ll let the user know that it will be removed. Sometimes it gone as soon as I see it and then I’ll let the user know it’s was not supposed to be there. I sometimes let them decide what to do, we’re all adults. However, there is no excuse for child porn!

        • #3223818

          If you get head out of arse

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to ….there is no excuse for child porn!

          you would see I never said their was.

          I never said there was an excuse, nor made justifications for leaving it there and not reporting.

          I don’t know about your world, but I am NOT the IT Nazi, and I do NOT get paid to snoop through my bosses computer looking to see what he has on it. There was NOTHING in the original story to indicate a reason to be looking at his personal pictures, but you probably were too lazy to read the artical, huh?

          Both should be fired, the person with what MAY be child porn AND the tech that is snooping around without cause on pc’s in a clear violation of his position.

          My MAIN point is that I don’t believe for a second that the story is real.

        • #3288922

          How about an intelligent answer…..

          by servicetech ·

          In reply to If you get head out of arse

          When you say “Maybe, Maybe not” to something must be done. How is that not making an excuse?

          When is “maybe not” an acceptable response to pornographic photos of children that are “clearly less than 18” years old?

          You are implying the article is false. How do you know?

          How about an intelligent answer without resorting to pseudo profanity.

          BTW, I read the article.

        • #2930893
          Avatar photo

          And here in lies the problem

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to How about an intelligent answer…..

          Define Child Pornography.

          Some people will say that Naked Pictures of a child is Child Porn. I saw a case where a Photo of a 3 month old baby sitting on the floor was reported as Child Porn. The Social Disease who came out was a complete rat bag and went off the deep end. Apparently this Little Girl was going to be scared for life and so on.

          Did I personally see the Picture [b]Hell Yes[/b] when it is 30 x 40 Inches and hanging up framed on a wall it’s very hard not to I even looked at the picture to see how well the place that I sent him to processed the picture as I had only seen the 4 x 6 Happy Snap that it came from and it was a Brilliant Picture.

          OH and the Girl that the Social Worked was Bitterly Complaining about was a boy but the Social Worker was insistent that it was a girl as no one would take a photo like that of a boy.

          Was it in any way Pornographic [b]NO![/b] That entire complaint arose because of some Idiot who knew better than anyone else and was offended by it. It was a photo of a 3 month old baby who was not only much loved and wanted by the Proud Parents but was also heavily protected by those parents.

          Even the Judge was less than favorable to the Child Services who are Charged with Protecting Children from Abuse but apparently it seems that if it is a small 4 x 6 inch photo it’s acceptable but you enlarge it and it’s suddenly Porn.

          Anyone who thinks like that is completely Insane and we need to be protected from their Insanity.

          OH and the Boy was not removed from the Parents or the Mother who took the photo but the father was charged with Abusing a Girl who was unknown on the Strength of the Social Workers Complaint.

          Col

        • #3274019

          Why are you defending this?

          by manwethegreat ·

          In reply to If you get head out of arse

          If this company has a technology policy like most businesses I have worked with (which, I will admit, is not many, as I am still young), than nothing on that “boss’s” computer is “private”. The computer & everything on it, is owned by the company, not the individual, as has been stated before.
          So why do you keep going back to whether this story is real or not, & keep saying that what this tech was doing was illegal?
          It doesn’t really matter whether it’s real or not, we can discuss the principle of the matter. It might help someone when they really encounter a situation like or similar to this one.
          This article is not specific about the exact circumstances, so we are left to speculate. Maybe he had business that brought him to those pictures, or maybe he was “snooping”, but the point is that
          1) The activity is illegal, so this “boss” has no leg to stand on.
          And
          2) It is company property, & the whole company could hang if an outside party discovered that stuff. Better the IT guy turn in the boss, than let the whole company go down if it ever comes out later.

        • #3273967

          Do you really want to understand?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Why are you defending this?

          If you did, you would have clearly seen in my other posts where I said they President of the company should be turned in to HR and get witnesses before doing ANYTHING. If this were a real case, that is how it should be handled. You do NOTHING without a witness or you will end up having to PROVE that it wasn’t YOU that put the pics there in the first place.

          Now as to why I go back against the fairytail of an article is a few reasons.

          Yes, the computers are company property. This does not give a pee-on tech the authority to go snooping through the computers without just cause. There are confidential documents on the computer that a tech has no business helping himself to and is a clear violation of the trust that is given to techs. ANY tech that sits down at all the computers and just starts randomly looking at everything should be fired on the spot.

          Even the worst of IT NAZI’s know better than to snoop without a reason. If there is network traffic showing up to point to this, that WOULD be a reason to go looking, but NEVER alone.

          And yes, it clearly is a BS story. The clown is clearly picking an emotional topic to get people stirred up so he can get some attention.

          So unless you come up with a number three that has ANYTHING to justify HOW the alleged pics were found, the tech will be fired, and the president will go to jail.

          I have NEVER said to look away. ANY tech that “just snoops” on ANY computer should be fired on the spot. And yes, walked out the door right then, and have security gather their belongings and box them up. If you are such a tech, I hope you are gone before you make the rest of us look bad. If the president is downloading this, the net admins will know.

        • #3225545

          Where does it say he is snooping???

          by servicetech ·

          In reply to Do you really want to understand?

          I thought he was installing an application?

          I guess you’ve never stumbled across anything while configuring software?

          Why is he a “pee-on” Tech?

          Where does it state “just starts randomly looking”?

          Stick to the facts presented please.

        • #3225474

          The information given

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Do you really want to understand?

          Installing an application on the President of the companies computer. Please tell me the last time you were required to look at the pictures someone has saved on their computer, in order to “install an application”.

          If you can think of an example on the last time YOU HAD to go through someones pictures when you are only doing an upgrade, I will consider your position. If you can NOT give me this example, then you should start considering mine.

          Why are you all worked up? Do you feel guilty because you regularly betray the trust of the company, and do the same thing?

          We are placed in a position of TRUST. TRUST that we will not use our godlike abilities to go through payroll and see what everyone is making, or get into databases and read how much the company REALLY spent on a project. We do not go in and read evaluations that are saved on the systems, nor hundreds of other sensitive documents. The alledged tech in the “story” betrayed that trust, and is a disgrace. Sure, after he DID find it, report it as I have said all along. But now he has to pack his bags unless he can come up with a damn good reason for WHY he was looking around the Presidents computer in the first place. And IF they turn out to NOT be illegal pics, depending on the company, the Pres MIGHT get in trouble for having porn on his system, but the tech would be toast for sure.

          You do NOT go through a computer without reason. Installing a new appliation is not a reason. You can not just “stumble” across data in personal directories unless you CHOOSE to.

          So, ServiceTech, be of a service, and tech. It is not your job to go through all the directories of a computer just because your installing an application. You HAVE installed an application before, haven’t you?

        • #2927533

          the original article…

          by morrisntex ·

          In reply to If you get head out of arse

          implies it was a “private” share on the company network not the bosses computer. I have seen instances where for whatever reason someone else was able to access a supposed private directory on a network share and went in a deleted files. I was involved in investigating another instance were stuff was put in a former employee’s private directory several days after the employee left the company.
          I think the original articles answer was mostly correct, I don’t have a better answer at this time but I think getting an outside law enforcement agency discretely involved as to the origin might be a good start.

        • #2929560

          Official Snooping

          by ysue ·

          In reply to Maybe, maybe not

          Every place I have worked — mostly government — all employees were told that their computers were subject to inspection at any time by management through the IT department. And some of our IT departments found it the most enjoyable part of their job. Sad but true. They liked listening to phone calls too.

        • #2929748

          Nice place to work……

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Official Snooping

          with miserable IT nazi’s like that, it makes everyone in the field look bad.

        • #2929800

          Guess we know what YOU have on your computer at work

          by bamyclouse ·

          In reply to Maybe, maybe not

          If you’re putting down a tech for reporting porn, then you’re messing around doing personal things on your company’s time yourself. That’s stealing, plain and simple. You can’t defend the person with the porn if you’re not doing something similar yourself.

          I don’t go through anyone’s computer, but if they ask for my help and I see something like that, I’m reporting it, if it’s kiddie porn or adult porn doesn’t matter, because there are other threads here and on other sites about the FBI going around checking to see if kiddie porn sites were ever opened on any computer, even if it’s spyware that opened it. I do think they need to give a bit more benefit of the doubt on that one, but still…

          If you’re doing adult porn, pretty soon it won’t be enough and you’ll “graduate” to kiddie porn. So as far as I’m concerned if I caught you with adult porn, I caught you before you exploited an innocent child because you can’t deal with sexuality in real life.

        • #2929762

          How do you figure that?

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to Guess we know what YOU have on your computer at work

          [i]You can’t defend the person with the porn if you’re not doing something similar yourself.[/i]

        • #2929750

          Are you really that stupid?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Guess we know what YOU have on your computer at work

          I think you are.

          There was nothing in my post that said porn on company computers is a good thing, and even a confused idiot such as yourself will have an even harder time determining what I am or am not doing based upon that last post.

          In IT, we are the keeper of the keys, and that is a trust. If it is abused, you should be removed.

          If it is your job to specifically look for pics or anything of a suspicious nature, that is one thing. To go snooping through someones files is quite another.

          As for surfing, the firewall/proxie would have long before pointed out a problem, and/or adult content would be blocked before hand.

          Grow up and learn something about IT.

        • #2915596

          Graduate to it ?

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Guess we know what YOU have on your computer at work

          You sir are an idiot.

        • #2915513

          wtf???

          by 2wired ·

          In reply to Guess we know what YOU have on your computer at work

          “If you’re doing adult porn, pretty soon it won’t be enough and you’ll “graduate” to kiddie porn. So as far as I’m concerned if I caught you with adult porn, I caught you before you exploited an innocent child because you can’t deal with sexuality in real life. ”

          Do you seriously believe that someone who looks at legal pornography is destined to “graduate” to child porn, due to what?? The very fact that they look at poor indicates a predisposition to abusing kids? That looking at legal adult pornography is a sign of sexual deviance??????

          How dare you make such a suggestion! I respectfully would suggest that you pick up a book on the psychology of sexual development, or something, and find out for yourself that pornography does not, for the most part, suggest sexual repression or deviance, merely an enjoyment of audio-visual stimulation.

          That?s like me saying to someone whose views that you don?t agree, that based on their line of thought they?re obviously going to have mentally retarded children or something….completely uncalled for and unfounded.

          By the way, I was trying to give an example there, not insult your children, born or otherwise. Some of us were taught basic respect for others.

        • #2929758

          Not a coworkers computer…

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to Maybe, maybe not

          “While installing software on my company?s computer network, I happened on a lot of pornographic pictures in the president?s personal directory”

          A personal directory on a network share. Pretty big difference there. The crap that porn brings with it into the network could easily be enough to poke holes in network security. I’ve cleaned up a couple ‘post-porn messes’. That stuff lets everything in.

          My questions are ‘What kind of software was installed to the network’, how did this installation ‘accidentally’ display a personal directory full of pictures, and what is the company policy re: Tech Support, inspection, etc…

      • #2927689

        I agree

        by sjmilne ·

        In reply to Child / early teens porn?? Simple

        If it is child porn not only is only recourse ethically, legally and morally to report it to the authorities – let the police sort out how it got there.

        You get a reputation as a straight shooter and a decent human rather than abetting and aiding a perverse criminal.

      • #2930743

        Something must be done, I agree!

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Child / early teens porn?? Simple

        get together with the IT guy, build a really tight server and register a domain name.

        At $9.99/mo per member, you should be able to quit work in no time.

      • #2915377

        Father working in IT

        by deathjester ·

        In reply to Child / early teens porn?? Simple

        canIberichnowplease I salute you.

        You make some very good points. I’m 37, the father of 3, and have inherited 3 more from a second relationship. I’ve worked in IT for nearly 2 decades. You name it, I have seen or dealt with it.

        The thought of anyone touching any of my six children literally makes my blood boil, and I have no doubt that I would exact a fathers justice if anyone laid a finger on any of them.

        In the past I have had to forensically recover pornography from user profiles that have been deleted as evidence in case a worker sued for wrongful dismissal, and this sort of job isn’t pretty in the workplace.

        This is my soapbox rant to anyone reading this post – If reporting your boss for looking at child porn gets you sacked, but saves the innocence of a tiny 3 year old girl there should be no moral dilemma whatsoever.

        You can always find another job, but a little girl will never get back what has been taken from her – if she survives.

        Most of us working in the IT field are on good salaries, have all the tech toys, nice cars, big houses, loving wives etc and can sometimes forget what is important in life.

        At the end of the day when I walk in my front door, I can’t wait to hear the pitter patter of many sets of feet and, “Daddy’s home!”.

        If your CEO or workmates are into child porn, think of your own children and you’ll soon be calling crimestoppers on 1800 333 000. Anonymous tipoffs get these people out of our society too.

    • #3288153

      Respectfully disagree with Randy Cohen

      by jamesrl ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Depending on the policies in place, there may be the opportunity to let someone else in the organization do the right thing – I’ve belonged to a few orgs where the correct thing is to report to an IT security officer, in other places it would be with HR.

      If there is no designated person, I would look to a senior executive I trusted – CIO.

      But in the end, while you may not be “legally” responsible for seeing the thing investigated, you are as far as I am concerned, morally obligated to ensure that the right thing is done, by you or someone else. And the right thing is to contact police.

      It is not your call to sift through the evidence and determine whether it is really child porn or not. If it appears to a “reasonable” person that the models may be underage and/or exploited, you should let the police decide. Same thing with the various scenarios – let the police determine whether they hold water. I know on my PC, I have an encrypted HD and pretty secure password that I have agreed to not share. If there is bad stuff on my disk, I am reponsible, if not directly, indirectly.

      You are protecting the company by doing this, if you need further encouragement. If you do nothing, are you not silently assisting potentially illegal and immoral acts? Let alone protecting the company from lawsuit and scandal.

      Could you risk your job – yes. But if you lose your job for doing the right thing, would you really want to be there anyway? I know in a few companies I’ve worked at, you would be a hero.

      James

      • #3216580

        Right.

        by tonythetiger ·

        In reply to Respectfully disagree with Randy Cohen

        Failure to report a crime is itself a crime in many jurisdictions (usually ‘obstruction of justice’, but may fall under ‘aiding and abetting’ or ‘accessory after the fact’ in some jurisdictions). If it is determined that you “knew or should have known”, you may be in nearly as much trouble as the perpetrator should you fail to report. And as tough as it may be to find a new job… it would be even tougher from behind bars.

        • #3224034

          Integrity wins out in the end

          by bill.herde ·

          In reply to Right.

          I have been in the IT business for over 30 years now. In that time I am proud to say no client, employer or associate has ever had just cause to question my integrity. Mistakes have been made, and prices paid. Some earned, some not. Even lost my last job for being too old. But even then, clients come looking for me because they know I can be trusted to do what is right. I have found illegal items from porn to piracy in places that would be least expected. There is always going to be a judgment call made by the individual involved. For me, I expose inappropriate material to the individual and let them know what risks they take putting this on a machine they do not own. Usually that is enough to stop it quick. Criminal stuff like kid porn is reported immediately to the next authority and I follow up to ensure appropriate action. (Usually with law enforcement) While I personally feel that many allow themselves to be overly puritan regarding sex, the perversion of one of the healthiest and often most spiritual acts of our lives should never be tolerated by society. There is a common phrase that fits. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Do the right thing.

      • #3223988

        How do you protect a company by involving police???

        by iceblast21 ·

        In reply to Respectfully disagree with Randy Cohen

        Don’t you create the scandal by involving the police in the first place??? I am a little surprised to not see anyone post something more along the middle. It’s either turn the guy in to the police or keep your mouth shut?

        Are those really the only options?

        I’d think of letting the company look at the evidence, fire the guy, and then dispose of it. Why involve authorities and potentially ruin the company’s reputation?

        So you just let the guy go? No. How much do you want to bet that if he has child porn at work, he’ll have it at home? Find a way to get the police to search his house. He can still be punished for his actions without necessarily bringing the entire company down in a media-overhyped scandal.

        I don’t mean to sound uncaring in this issue, but I would hate to see the actions of one man destroy the good reputation of a large company.

        • #3223983

          What do you mean, nobody posted

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to How do you protect a company by involving police???

          in the middleground, to let the company know first.
          In my own posts, and most of the others, the company’s security, HR, and/or an alternate manager was suggested to be informed first. They should be the ones to call the Police/FBI, etc.
          There have been a few that stated to call the Police first, but I would not view that as my first action item.

        • #3223972

          Policy versus law

          by tig2 ·

          In reply to What do you mean, nobody posted

          A corporate policy generally exists to help people understand what kinds of information may be accessed, saved, or viewed on a corporate asset. I agree fully with the posters who have said to check your policy… and if one doesn’t exist, write one and start through the approvals process.

          Child pornography is reprehensible and should be prosecuted. The problem that the tech faces is chain of evidence. Touching those files in any way simply provides an opening that a defense attorney can exploit should the case go to trial.

          The correct answer is to take the issue to HR or other ranking staff- Director, VP, etc. This puts the issue back into the hands of someone who can actually do something about it.

          Many years ago I was installing an application throughout the enterprise. I had to have a certain amount of space available in order to complete the install. I was directed by my senior to look through image files and delete as necessary when space was an issue. Over the course of that effort, I ran onto a LOT of porn. The policy was to remove it ONCE and leave a copy of the policy manual page that dealt with acceptable data types. It was understood that at any time, an administrator could log on to a “dirty” box and check for additional images. If any were found, the PC was removed from the network and the individual removed from the company.

          I’m not saying that any one approach is the ultimate “right answer”. I do think that the decision of when and how to engage authorities outside of the company is one that will be made above my paygrade.

          The question is not a simple one.

          Edit typo

        • #3223907

          I agree, I have not needed to go that far though

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to Policy versus law

          What I have done in the past, of course it was not child porn, was to inform the person that this kind of material is not tolerated and to re-check that they completed the proper training courses.
          The items that I have found were less porn related, but things like an Ebay store, filling 40 of the 60 GB HDD with every post and item description that they ever sold. Then complained that they needed a bigger HDD because all of the space was used up.
          Mild porn, excessive photos, several video games (person gave her work system to her teen every weekend to do whatever, every Monday, new spyware/malware needed removal), and things of that nature.
          I only once brought the manager into things, and that was with the lady that kept letting her kids use her work notebook and install/do whatever. After 4 cleanings, enough was enough. Each time I told her of the policy, and informed her that if it continued, her manager would be notified. After I finally did notify, the problem stopped.

          I do not disagree at all that in a child porn case, the authorities should be involved, but, it is not the tech’s responsibility to call the police. It is the responsibility of HR, Security, or a manager. I strongly recommend a manager to take it out of your hands. But I work in a place where open relations with managers and feedback is a good thing, and we are oft. told that no reprocussions would happen from these communications.

        • #3223971

          Which is a worse scandal?

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to How do you protect a company by involving police???

          Having a person in a company arrested for kiddie porn, or having the company be accsued of covering up or protecting a criminal?

          So if you are the risk manager at the company – what would you decide? I know what I would do.

          How can you convince the police to go after his home unless you have some evidence in hand? Do you think your word alone is convincing to a judge?

          One bad egg (unless its at the top) doesn’t usually bring down a company. But if the company is caught in a coverup, hiding a kiddie porn user – can you imagine what that does to public confidence, let alone the stock price.

          James

        • #3223932

          I’d hate to see one more child

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to How do you protect a company by involving police???

          photo’s while being being abused.

          If you want an example of how much covering up child abuse does you when you get found out, look at the catholic church. None of them are allowed to be with a child unsupervised now.

          The cover up tarred them all with the same brush.

        • #2929799

          The individual’s actions are just their actions

          by bamyclouse ·

          In reply to How do you protect a company by involving police???

          The company would not suffer. They can just say they enforced a zero tolerance policy for inappropriate use of company resources, especially true for those who try to put pornographic images on a computer – and most especially in this case of child porn.

          So, again, how would this reflect negatively on a company? Does NOT hold water.

        • #2915579
          Avatar photo

          Well particularly in the case of Kiddy Porn

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to The individual’s actions are just their actions

          Just having the images on a Computer you own is a Crime unless you are a member of the Police, a member of the Prosecution who is bringing the charges, a member of the Authority who decides if charges should be brought, a Judge or a member of the defense Councils team.

          Just think for a minute how many people legally have Kiddy Porn on their Systems and how many people have access to these Images.

          As for bringing problems to a company unless you can prove who placed those images onto the system the Owner is to blame for them being there so in the case of a company that is either the Board of Directors who immediately become suspects in Kiddy Porn and end up on the Sexual Offenders Registry or the owner of the company.

          Just the same as if you have a open WiFi Access Point where some person without authority downloads these images through your WiFi Access Point. If you can not inform the Authorities who downloaded the images you as the owner of that Access Point are responsible for what comes through it so you end up as a Convicted Sex Offender are removed from contact with Children and are on the Sexual Offenders Registry and all you have done is be an idiot who believed the Advertising of the Sales Person who sold you that WiFi Access Point.

          Hardly right or fair and certainly Unjust but as that’s the Law who can complain?

          Col

    • #3288135

      Hmm… Silence or pain

      by kgolden73 ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      I think this sort of thing is a no brainer for those with the ethics and morality to see it. Silence is not an option! I would see the security officer at the organization and if not possible then seek the assistance of the FBI. Local police are usually not capable or staffed for investigations such as this (and local politics may apply). Such as it is there should be no pornography on any company owned asset unless porn is the company business!

    • #3288129

      I might accept say a few images in the cache

      by tony hopkinson ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      if some one has been a tad foolish. Used IE to browse porn sites for instance.

      If we were talking saved images / videos, then I’d have the coppers, fbi whatever in immediately.

      I wouldn’t give a toss about the company’s reputation, less about the bosses, and have absolutely none about mine.

      I have no problem with being known as person who won’t turn a blind eye to this sort despicable filth.

      The hardest part for me, would be not kicking the crap out of him.

      Ethics, yeah right. What your saying is it’s ok to have photos of children being shagged, which means some were shagged as long as you can make money out it.

      Randy Cohen, I have no respect for you whatsoever. As for the guy who wrote to you grow a backbone, you snivelling coward.

    • #3288118

      I’m puzzled why he’s called “The Ethicist”

      by neilb@uk ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      The article discussed very little about ethics at all. We had a short discussion on legality, a lot of ifs and maybes leading to a conclusion that the questioner should be a self-serving sh:t and that was it.

      Both the question poser and “The Ethicist”, Randy Cohen, came over as people with a distinct lack of any.

    • #3288108

      Ridiculous

      by maevinn ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      There’s no way to be silent about this. It’s not the ‘safe’ option, it’s the easy one. If the ‘rank’ of the guilty party is what decides your response, then you are not being ethical. If this was the low man on the totem pole, there would be no question, right? Rank does NOT equal exemption from the law.

      • #3216556

        Guilty Party…

        by twoclones ·

        In reply to Ridiculous

        I’d like to know exactly where the images were found and just how secure the machine is before naming anyone as the guilty party. It’s not like we know that he is the only person using this machine.

        Personally, I’d not have difficulty deciding what to do here. I would handle this the same way I handle finding any other inappropriate content on a company machine. Delete all the porn and then tell the boss, who uses the machine, that I found and deleted it. I’d also change his password and shorten the time before his screen saver locks the machine and show him how to lock the machine using Windows-L.

        During this process, I’d also check his browser history for porn sites. If found, ad them to restricted sites. See who complains 😉

        • #3216531

          Reporting that you’ve found child porn

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Guilty Party…

          is not an accusation against an individual.

          Course the user of the computer is going to be prime suspect, unlucky.

          Every piece of evidence you touch, you introduce doubt. If the guy gets nailed by some more civic minded person and they find you’ve deleted it, you’re deep in brown stuff.

          The coppers won’t accept the good of the company bit, if they can charge you, they will.

          I was just doing my job = I was just following orders = guilty. Precedent set at Nuremberg.

        • #3224061

          Disagree

          by twoclones ·

          In reply to Reporting that you’ve found child porn

          Leaving it on the machine allows whomever put it there to distribute it further. Would that be the right thing to do?

          Let’s face it, the true criminal is whomever produced those images. That said, if this ‘boss’ were in those kiddie porn images, I would have walked out of his office carrying at least the harddrive with me and gone straight to the law.

        • #3224049

          Disagree

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Disagree

          Eliminating it from the HD wipes out evidence. So by erasing it, you could be letting a pedophile get away with it.

          Distribution and possesion are still crimes. If there was no market for it, there would not be any producers.

          James

        • #3223995

          Report to FBI etc Anonymously

          by smilodon ·

          In reply to Disagree

          Personally I agree with the person who said they would not go to HR. What about contacting law enforcement anonymously, making sure your phone number is hidden or calling from a pay phone? If I went to HR I would make sure to contact the FBI or at least some external government agency at the same time. If there was no other option than I would feel morally obligated to come forward publically. I believe it’s possible as a tech to come across such information unintentionally. The porn might very clearly be kiddy porn, there seems to be enough of it out there. Mayyyybe if it was in the cache the person might have come across it inadvertently whilst browsing adult sites…but I dunno. Why on earth can’t they have the good sense to do that on their own personal PC and not put IT folks in this position? Anyone who knows how to turn a computer on nowadays knows that there are traces of your activity that stay on the computer.

        • #3224029

          No you quarantine it and call the authorities

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Disagree

          How do you prove the hard drive under your arm was the one in the PC?

          That’s why I said leave it alone.

          Coppers don’t put tape round the scene of a crime because some manager bulk bought a load of it.

        • #2929796

          Anyone who looks at this stuff is a criminal

          by bamyclouse ·

          In reply to Disagree

          No one could make money on it if no one purchased it.

        • #2929746

          You do realize

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Anyone who looks at this stuff is a criminal

          that you are very late to the party, and this discussion took place two years ago?

          Most of the people you are whining at are long gone. If boxie hadn’t replied to you, I never would have seen it either.

          Stop and think, for a change.

        • #2915519

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to You do realize

          Sheesh. I didn’t even look at the dates…

        • #2915576
          Avatar photo

          Also not true at all

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Anyone who looks at this stuff is a criminal

          I’ve seen cases with infected computers where the money is wanted to stop sending these images.

          In a case like that because the images come in from Overseas the Authorities will do absolutely nothing at all and you are left to your own devices to stop it coming in.

          Col

    • #3216820

      Bigger Problems than that

      by jmgarvin ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      If the FBI is already tracking the boss for kiddie porn the sys admin could be charged as well.

      My suggestion: Take the HDD, talk to HR, and see what can be done. This is serious stuff and could land the sys admin in hot water by staying quiet.

    • #3216801

      its a crime

      by bigbigboss ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Essentially, the IT guy discovered a crime was committed on the premise of the company. Are there company rules about that ? If not, call the security department, or the auditors, or your boss (not the one who committed the crime), or quietly to the guys boss. But report it.

      • #3216714

        Silence? Not an option

        by dabler ·

        In reply to its a crime

        How in the world can silence be an option? Regardless of how they got there, the pictures are evidence of a crime committed. If you found out the boss was stealing money from the company, would silence be an option? Someone in authority above this guy needs to be alerted. If you are worried about your job, do it anonymously.

        • #3216679

          we are all guilty

          by computab ·

          In reply to Silence? Not an option

          Remember what Christ said, ‘let s/he who is innocent cast the first stone’

        • #3216651

          Can we keep the Christian twaddle down to a dull roar?

          by neilb@uk ·

          In reply to we are all guilty

          the question is one of ethics. To bring religion into the discussion shows your complete lack of understanding of the word.

        • #3216599

          ethics?

          by computab ·

          In reply to Can we keep the Christian twaddle down to a dull roar?

          It depends where you get your ethics from. It originated in the Bible – else how would you know the difference between right and wrong?

        • #3216564

          Idiot

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to ethics?

          Do you think no one other than Christians has a concept of right and wrong?

          Ethics has nothing to do with faith. You can be highly ethical and be atheist, and many people who profess to be strong christians have turned out to be highly unethical.

          beat you to it Neil.
          James

        • #3216560

          You sir, are an idiot

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to ethics?

          ethics originated in the bible !

          Thankfully your lot are dying out, otherwise we’d still be burning people at the stake, pinching them with hot irons, drowning them, stealing their land and valuables, authoring genocides and other atrocities, all in the name of the good book.

          Put the bible down read some history, I find your wilful ignorance offensive.

        • #3288790

          You sir, are an idiot

          by computab ·

          In reply to You sir, are an idiot

          Did you never hear the greatest ethic of all time, Love your neighbour as yourself? YOU are the ignorant one.

        • #3288033

          Love your neighbor frequently?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You sir, are an idiot

          Well, you DID say to [i]”Love your neighbour as yourself”, right?[/i]

          :0

        • #3287904

          Typical lack of logic

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to You sir, are an idiot

          Respond to the point !

          You said there were no ethics before the bible.

          I pointed out that that was self evidently not true.

          Your response I’m ignoring the best ethic love thy neighbour.

          So by your own lights, calling me an idiot you have not ‘loved’ me.

          You don’t practice what you preach, so you are either lying to me, to your god and to yourself.

          On top of that I’m not a christian, so how would I ever agree that love thy neighbour is the greatest ethic ?

        • #3287811

          Tony….. oh my……

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You sir, are an idiot

          Do you REALLY want him to love you? :0

          I mean, far from me to judge or anything, but geezeohman! Maybe you had better hit Mae up for some of her “Social Lubrication”? 😀

        • #3274235

          Not particularly

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to You sir, are an idiot

          I like people who say what they mean and mean what they say.
          I like them even more if they think before they open their gob.

          The greatest ethic of all time, sheesh.

        • #3216467

          As a Christian

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to ethics?

          you are an embarrassment.

          And so there were no ethics before the bible? So Jesus himself was not ethical, as the bible had not been written yet?

          Please think before you ever say such a stupid thing agian.

        • #3288791

          As a Christian

          by computab ·

          In reply to As a Christian

          it was written 2500 years ago, so, no, ther was no ethics then!!

        • #3288789

          Ah another idiot

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to As a Christian

          There was no christian ethic then, perhaps if you believe that the christian ethic was created whole cloth out of a void.
          Which of course it wasn’t.

          Then of course there is the fact that the old testament and new testament ethics are different.

          Then there are non christian ethical systems.

          One of which is mine, of course some of my ethics do derive from christian ones, as I didn’t invent my system from scratch.

          Do you know what ethics are by the way, I suspect not.

        • #3287783

          Fairly typical

          by martinplatt ·

          In reply to As a Christian

          bit off the subject there mate.

          What has Jesus got to do with a tech finding porn on a boss’s computer?
          From what i know about the bible, I’ve not read anything about Jesus surfing the net, or writing it in his little diary.
          It’s down to values and common sense. If you lived by the little book, you’d be slapping each others cheeks, poking each others’ eyes out and throwing stones when you feel you’re right. I’m glad you did not have any input into the laws that we’re talking about.
          Why do you have to make everything about religion, if it isn’t to alienate yourself?
          Can’t you make your own mind up, based by all means on experience such as your belief in a bible and what was written in it, but abstracting your thoughts into the current day, and what is right?
          What I don’t get is that you come on here all hoity toity and start digging into people? This was once a serious conversation, but alas, that is ended. The boss should be reported, end of.

        • #2503028

          mumbo jumbo

          by wrzfamily ·

          In reply to Can we keep the Christian twaddle down to a dull roar?

          Religion sux. All of ’em. There is research that identifies ‘spiritual’ fancies as biologically hardwired. Theorists suggest that the evolution of religion helped to coordinate and control the efforts of early humans, creating a more effective entity.
          We have the internet, now, so what is with the twaddle that keeps interfering with thinking? Religion is as vestigial as one’s appendix: when those backward anachronistic bastards flare up, people die.

        • #2503005

          And then there are twits such as yourself

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to mumbo jumbo

          Intolerance from scum such as yourself is just as bad as intolerance from any religion (accept Islam, which will kill you).

          I am glad to live in America, so I have protections from losers like you.

        • #2927532

          dull roar?

          by chris.taylor ·

          In reply to Can we keep the Christian twaddle down to a dull roar?

          Ok, this is kind of funny but this was the first post in this thread that had any mention of religion that I have seen. Secondly, why do the “anti-Jesus” crowd show up so vehemently with just one mention of the work “Bible”?

          Some said that the were so glad to live in America, well so am I. Thankfully we can all use free will to determine our path and all are protected. Even those who trash everyone else who does not believe as they do (Christians, Muslims,Jews,and Athiests alike).

        • #2930752

          He doesn’t live in america

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to dull roar?

          Nor do I, and several billion other people.
          Other than that what exactly are you trying to say? Presumably you are not equating freedom of religion (or lack of it) with freedom to molest children?

        • #2930684

          Hey, I posted that two years ago

          by neilb@uk ·

          In reply to dull roar?

          Keep up!

          You’re lucky that I tend to read TH’s posts otherwise I’d never have seen your post.

          Now, the reason that I answered in my original post to the God-Squad poster despite it being the first post mentioning religion was so that it would be the LAST post mentioning religion. ANY religion.

          Religion has no place in a discussion on ethics.

        • #2930622

          So…

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to Can we keep the Christian twaddle down to a dull roar?

          then, ethics is removed from morality? And/or morality removed from ethics?

          etu

        • #2931537

          Not completely, but

          by neilb@uk ·

          In reply to So…

          the point about morality and ethics is that they are different. As I see it – feel free to disagree – morality is personal. It may be derived internally (as is my own moral code) or be a combination of that and a moral framework derived from an interpretation of a Book of Holy Words.

          Ethics relates to behavioural standards for the group of which you are a member and ethics may change depending on which of the many groups to which we all belong we are using as our yardstick.

          As I originally read it, this thread was about professional ethics. A discussion of what Jesus-As-A-Computer-Tech would have done would merely cloud the issue. I just wanted to stop a sidetrack and, for once, avoid any religious argument. (Honest!)

          “Remember what Christ said, ‘let s/he who is innocent cast the first stone'” is a fine sentiment but hasn’t a lot to do with a discussion on professional ethics.

          In the context of this thread, if your personal morality clashes with your professional ethics, you take the route that professional ethics dictates or you resign without doing anything. But that’s what MY moral code tells me, anyway.

          😀

        • #2931415

          Dang…

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to Not completely, but

          you just had to go and do all that qualifying, didn’t you?

          [i]In the context of this thread[/i]
          [i]this thread was about…[/i]

          😀

          edit tags

        • #2931389

          Take it as a compliment :D

          by neilb@uk ·

          In reply to Not completely, but

          that I wrote extremely carefully (nailed the rug to the floor) lest you pulled my feet out from under me.

          :p

        • #2931382

          Fingers poised

          by santeewelding ·

          In reply to Not completely, but

          Over the keyboard…withdrawn…halfway.

        • #2931380

          Involved

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to Not completely, but

          in something/s else. Letting that first paragraph slide…
          Kinda figured you’d call us on it, and/or maybe on something else that has got past. 😀

        • #3216640

          Picking up my stone

          by ccrobinson ·

          In reply to we are all guilty

          As I’m innocent of viewing or producing child porn, I have no problem picking up my stone.

          If you want to bring the words of Christ into this matter, let’s consider all of those words. Like these.

          Luke 17:2 – “It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.”

          Your compassion is laudable. Your application of compassion in this case is not.

        • #3216562

          Oh right, so we should turn the other cheek then

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to we are all guilty

          Actually I believe it was he who is without sin.

          Which is me, I can’t be a sinner because I don’t believe in your god. So pass me a couple of large ones and get out of my way.

        • #3216559

          I’m not guilty of being a predator!

          by unclerob ·

          In reply to we are all guilty

          people who make use of this child porn on their computers, at home in books, in movies, etc. are predators of children.

          Be careful how you word things, people don’t take kindly to statements like that, you make it sound like we’re all doing what this boss did.

          As for the boss, he’s a criminal, and a predator of children. Blow the whistle on him, loudly! Put him in jail, behind bars where he can’t get to our kids. It’s not a huge leap from watching kiddie porn on your computer to becoming a predator that sits in chat rooms waiting for his next victim.

          I don’t need to be a christian to know the difference between right & wrong.

        • #3224106

          Not stoning

          by bmagurn ·

          In reply to we are all guilty

          Other than the guy who suggested taking him behind the woodshed and giving him a blanket party, we’re only talking about reporting him, and as others have said allowing the investigation to begin.

          I think this is ethically the absolute minimum that can be expected of a citizen. And if you are truly a christian and not just using it as a catch phrase, you should be ashamed.

        • #2929794

          Let’s please not misquote Scripture

          by bamyclouse ·

          In reply to we are all guilty

          Christ was talking to a specific audience about a specific person whose services He likely knew many if not all of those holding the stones had used. Although we’ve no idea what He wrote in the dust before He spoke those words, it’s pretty obvious when everyone left after the writing and His quote, He had “something on them” as they say.

          The words quoted are intended to instruct us to live the right kind of life, to look to our own lives, true – but this forum is about disclosing a crime done by one person and discovered by someone else. At that point, it doesn’t matter if the discoverer has anything on his or her PC at home or at work. Those to whom it’s reported will ensure that the company’s IT resources are ALL checked and if the one who reported this is guilty, then they will be caught as well.

        • #2929766

          That might be obvious to you…

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to Let’s please not misquote Scripture

          but it’s pretty assumptive if you ask me. Which you didn’t, I’m volunteering. Specific audience, specific person is fine, but the rest of that first paragraph is full of assumption.

          Don’t misquote, and don’t assume, when it comes to God.

    • #3216713

      Paper Trail

      by leonard j rivera sr. ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      First off – I agree with all posts that call for action. this is not just a crime, but one of the worst crimes ever. The sexual exploitation of children. I am taking for granted that it is child porn we are discussing here.

      No Matter what (child porn or not) it must be reported to HR plain and simple. Get it on record that you discovered it, at what time, in what location (what computer and where on that computer) and what was observed.

      There must be a record of this report. After that, it is up to the company to take action, not the employee.

      If the company does not take action (more porn discovered later) then a second report to HR with a record must happen. This protects the technician.

      If none of the above appears to be working, then it is a simple matter of the tech getting a lawyer and opening a sexual harrasment case. According to Federal Sexual harrassement laws, porn on a computer is deamed offensive and is criteria to take action (does not have to be child porn).

      Bring a sexual harrassementt complaint to HR and watch how fast they take action, else, continue through your lawyer.

      Not only should it not be there, but you (the tech) should not have to be subject to it, and simply because you were, in the work place, doing your normal job as usual, then you are the victim here.

      And as a father of 4, I can’t say I’d follow the same advise, only that I would certainly take action immediately, only not as nice. I would not take exposure to such a thing lightly at all.

      The laws are so strict in that arena that simply “seeing” it on a computer could be illegal. By viewing it (if only for a second) you yourself could have broken the law, so protect yourself and take action now. Not doing so makes you an accessory.

    • #3216711

      Both Criminal and Deviant behavior, must report

      by dlmeyer9 ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Unless the “boss” is so high in the company that sending
      him to jail would cripple or destroy the company, you
      have no choice but to out him. You don’t have to do it “in
      person”, though. You could ask enough people about it
      that someone else would report him, for example.
      “Plausible deniability”, a concept from the Nixon Years,
      can be your pal. I’d freshen your resume first, though.
      Better yet, move on before reporting him. This person
      could cause the company serious damage – either
      because his behavior is Criminal, or because it is Deviant,
      or because it leaves him open to blackmail. His boss may
      still regard you as similarly dangerous and consider a
      great review as an acceptable parting gift.

      DLMeyer – the Voice of http://glhorton.podomatic.com/

      • #3216708

        There are always ways…

        by andy moon ·

        In reply to Both Criminal and Deviant behavior, must report

        …to get the message out without becoming directly involved. If you want to make sure the porn disappears and never reappears, get an untraceable Hotmail account and email the person in question to let him know that the secret is out and that he should cleanse his HDD.

        If you truly think that law enforcement involvement is appropriate (which it is if you are 100% sure that it is porn involving children), try to make an opportunity to ghost the HDD, back the offending computer to tape, or get some kind of archive that shows where and when the material was on the computer. Notify someone in the company (most times, I would bring it to the HR director) and if nothing is done, call the FBI.

        There are some things that are more important than a job.

        • #3216703

          Look to (the US) Congress

          by goc ·

          In reply to There are always ways…

          For an idea on exactly how bad an idea doing nothing is, just look to the recent activities in the US Congress. Not reporting it or not taking action is the same as accepting this as acceptable behavior. If you suspect (or even think) it is child porn it MUST be reported. If nothing else go to the National Center for Missing and Exploited children (http://www.missingkids.com/) and select the Cypertipline link to report this.

        • #3216681

          Seems obvious to me

          by bcastleman ·

          In reply to Look to (the US) Congress

          It appears that most of the respondees are appalled at the ‘ethical’ response advocated.

          Let’s assume the most innocous case – that the boss’s computer has been turned into a zombie and the controlling entity is using his drive for storage. Wouldn’t the company and your boss be best served by pointing out the problem?.

          In the worst case, the boss is trafficking in illegal images and needs to be prosecuted.

          Between those to extremes I honestly can’t think of an ETHICAL scenario that allows ignoring it. If it was indeed child porn a serious crime has been committed and must be investigated. Doing nothing just allows the crime to continue.

        • #3225493

          MAY be totally innocent

          by dlmeyer9 ·

          In reply to Seems obvious to me

          I once needed to use a subordinate’s computer and noted a
          “strange” bookmark while browsing for hardware. I asked
          him about it, later, and he said he’d grabbed the whole thing
          of another (recently departed) person’s system. What was it?
          Said he didn’t know but was willing to look. It was pretty bad.
          He seemed quite shocked. Either a great actor or totally
          innocent. ‘Recently departed’, OTOH, had a reputation that
          would make him a perfect fall guy.

      • #3216685

        careful with the criminal and deviant words

        by tg2 ·

        In reply to Both Criminal and Deviant behavior, must report

        Be careful with those words.

        Firstly, the boss may have been sent these as attachments for a purpose and not realized they were not destroyed.

        Secondly, there is a fine line between porn (of any age) and art. Were this the computer for the curator of a museam, the pictures could have been sent as samples of an artist’s work etc..

        while very unlikely this is the case … always give advice on the side of caution.

        use of the conjunction “IF” is called for… that is “IF this is criminal OR deviant”

        The person should know IF porn or potentially pornographic content is commonly allowed on company computers. That would be in the employee handbook.

        If porn (or potentially pornographic) material is not allowed as a company policy, then the employee should notify his direct boss so long as that is not the associated porn holder. With that, his boss would be required to handle it as part of an HR issue, HR would then be responsible to calling in law enforcement or classifying how the company will deal (if HR needs to they would consult the company lawyers)

        Given all of that, if the matter were not resolved satisfactorally to the employee, ie, they tell you they’ve taken administrative action against the CEO or are cleaning it up and so forth … then the position is how you want to deal with it.. you can contact the police, they can come and talk to the people you reported it to inside the company.

        This is the way to handle the issue. Don’t jump to conclusions.

        I was investigating an office for a company I work for, “slow internet access” was the complaint. During *my* investigation I found hits to a porn house, the company policy is clear that non-business use of company equipement is forbidden (and the company is not in porn or graphic media or any remotely associated porn industry/side bar)

        With that as part of my finding for the “slow internet” and that I could identify the computer, I verified the currently logged on employee, looked up track records on this computer where there had been issues in the past that it was “cleaned” of spy and ad ware (conclusion now was that it was never checked for porn before and that the employee was visiting porn sights which downloaded the spyware on him) and with that information, fact and conjecture, I went to my boss.

        He went to his boss (instead of HR as he should have) and his boss said get additional information/log activity, scan drive directly, etc..

        with orders in hand I covertly scanned, obtained proof of access and content. With that handed off the packet to my boss who then handed off to his, and the employee (one of several company owners) was taken to a legal counselling session. We (I.T. Dept) were told in future to handle these issues the same way, with exceptions on who we would notify if it was our direct superior etc… because I was directly involved the company kept me informed of their decision.

        Granted had it been child porn and I not been kept in the loop I would have informed the company they needed to, and then told them that if the outcome was not given to the police for formal investigation, I would have no alternative myself (since in collecting the information I would then have copies of it too and could be implicated) It is also for that reason I keep copies of my email off company site so that I can have unaltered copies to help keep me clear.. etc..

        These are better and more complete ways on handling such issues.. if the guy has porn that violates company policy, its however the company wants to deal with it. if the porn clearly broke law (child or otherwise) then I would have expected the outcome to have involved the police. Even if the guy is innocent and it were planted.. because at that point, the law would go after the purpetrator.

    • #3216705

      Ethics: Consult an Attorney

      by john.decoville ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      I have been faced with this and have been grateful to have had a relationship with an attorney. The plan of action varies depending on what type of clientele the company has.

      If the clients are children, or there is a fiduciary (financial responsibility) the actions might be different. There are ways to be a whistle-blower without being a martyr. Our corporate world shoots the messenger so getting out of outrage is a first, best step.

      Discovering porn on a boss’s computer uncovers many ethical issues. How did you discover the Porn? Was the method of discovery ethical?

      Are you, the whistle-blower, clean ethically in the company in the fullest extent of the term?

      And finally, since certain crimes unreported, carry penalties, I unhesitatingly consult a trusted attorney.

      –John

      • #3216695

        Consult a lawyer ?

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to Ethics: Consult an Attorney

        Legalities fine, ethics are the last thing I’d consult a lawyer about, professionally they have none. Might as well ask a politician.

        • #3216687

          Don’t generalize attorneys so quickly.

          by ivefallen ·

          In reply to Consult a lawyer ?

          My wife is an attorney, and one of the most consciously ethical attorneys you will ever meet. Attorneys like her are the ones you don’t hear about because of the crooked ones that will go to any lengths to make a buck. There are more ethical attorneys around than you think. That, my friend, is a fact.

        • #3216552

          I was not impugning your wifes personal morality

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Don’t generalize attorneys so quickly.

          If she does defense and she wins the case her client is not guilty even if they are.

          I aren’t a lawyer so I don’t confuse good and bad with legal and illegal. Professionally when she represents someone her judgement of whether they deserve to win their case is suspended, no matter how vile they might be.

          There are lots of ethical people who are lawyers , they all bin them when they enter court.

          And that my friend is also a fact.

        • #3224096

          You aren’t a lawyer. That statement says everything.

          by ivefallen ·

          In reply to I was not impugning your wifes personal morality

          There’s much we in the general public don’t know about that TV or print media won’t tell you.

          “I aren’t a lawyer so I don’t confuse good and bad with legal and illegal. Professionally when she represents someone her judgement of whether they deserve to win their case is suspended, no matter how vile they might be.”

          An entirely circumstantial yet inaccurate statement. This goes back to what you yourself stated.

          “I aren’t a lawyer”.

          And that…my friend…we know full well is a fact.

        • #3224067

          Consulting a lawyer can be the ounce of prevention preventing a ton of cure

          by john.decoville ·

          In reply to You aren’t a lawyer. That statement says everything.

          All too many Americans do not have contracts, real estate transactions or large purchases reviewed by a competant professional. A serious ethics violation at work by a boss or someone in authority rises to that level too. Making a general statement about attorneys and failing to check legal ramifications can have serious and long-term consequences for one’s family, retirement. I am related to several lawyers and am proud to know them. –John

        • #3224015

          Question

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Consulting a lawyer can be the ounce of prevention preventing a ton of cure

          How can you do your job as in prosecute the innocent or defend the guilty if you let you personal ethical convictions about right and wrong interfere with your professional ones, ask your lawyer friends and relations.

          It’s not my fault the world isn’t as simple as you believe.
          A lawyer who can’t suspend their judgement on right and wrong isn’t a bad lawyer, just a crap one.

        • #3224017

          Do we have a language problem here?

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to You aren’t a lawyer. That statement says everything.

          Entirely circumstantial yet in innaccurate.

          What’s that lawyer speak ?

          Sounds clever, makes no sense whatsoever.

          Come on then friend which bit was innaccurate, are you saying your wife chucks cases if she feels she can’t morally represent her client in certain circumstances?

        • #3223941

          I WANT Pedophiles to Have the Best Representation

          by anindependentintherepublic ·

          In reply to Do we have a language problem here?

          I don?t care what they are accused of; I want them to have the best lawyer possible. I don?t want them to be able to drag out appeals for years and years because they had a shoddy defense team. The system is not perfect and surely some guilty will go free (see Orenthal J. Simpson for a perfect example) but that is the price we pay for a more or less good criminal justice system. If someone set you up by placing child pornography on your computer, you would appear morally bankrupt but I am sure you would want the best lawyer available and that is the whole point of the presumption of innocence.

        • #3223929

          So do I, which was my point

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Do we have a language problem here?

          To represent either side in a court case you must suspend all PERSONAL judgement. The only issues are existing law, current precedents and potential new ones. Right wrong, good and bad are arguments for the jury, both sides use, they are not inherent in law though.

          A lawyer with professional ethics will get a known paedo off, they will put an innocent man in jail. That’s their job. To manipulate the law, short of the emotional coin toss of depending on a jury, the law is the only factor.
          So consult lawyers PROFESSIONALLY on legalities not ethics.

          Why is this so hard a concept to grasp?

    • #3216702

      Must Call Police?

      by teaching information systems ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      When I worked at a AOL call center, we called the police on tech with kiddy porn. They arrested him after seeing the pictures. I was given the impression that we had to call or become part of problem.

      • #3216693

        Think of a good reason not to call them

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to Must Call Police?

        Page intentionally left blank for no reason.

        No smiley , because there’s nothing in this issue to smile about.

    • #3216689

      SPEAK UP!!!! – You could possibly save a life (or lives)…

      by unclerob ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      This tech discovers images/contents of child pornography on his boss’s computer, what needs to be done….

      Those advocating silence are just taking care of themselves. Sorry I have to say it, if no one else will.

      There isn’t that much of a leap between viewing & using this kind of perverted content on your computer to becoming a predator who attacks children to take of his sadistic needs. Yes that’s a general statement but an accurate one as well. He may not have physically done anything to children yet but it’s against the law to have this kind of content in your possession – that’s because it’s precursor to the kind of behavior that would lead him to physically harming children. That’s why it’s illegal to have this crap on your computer, on vhs tape, dvd, books, magazines, etc.

      Yes you can save your job and not say a thing. I would hate to find out sometime later that this tech’s boss was actually involved in harming poor children. In saving your job, you enabled him to continue his activity without restraint, nothing was done to curb his behavior and punish him for the unspeakable acts he thinks up in his mind or in reality.

      Save your job… not really a big deal.

      Save a life, more importantly saving a child from a predator that could committ unspeakable acts – that is a big deal.

      I wouldn’t even blink at this decision.

      But if you’re like some people and you can’t stand the thought of looking for another job, keep quiet. I hope no one gets hurt because of this decision. How much money is the tech person earning in his current job that it’s worth it to remain quiet after making this kind of discovery.

      Just remember, we all have to live with the decisions we make. I would rather live knowing that the decision I made possibly saved a life and helped put a predator of children behind bars.

      Speak to HR, tell them what you found. Boss or no boss, this person should be reprimanded for his actions because he is stupid enough to pursue criminal activity using company computer equipment – talk about an audit trail! If they want do anything, speak to the Police. If the tech is really that worried about his job, ask for some kind anonymity, if anything they could start tracking his email, web surfing & instant messaging habits and begin a case against him on that, all the tech did was alert the police to someone who engaged in this behavior. The police would do their own work and accumulate the required evidence necessary to put him away.

      There should be no tolerance for this kind of behavior ever! Once a child is attacked by this kind of predator, this person is ruined for life and will have problems for the rest of their life based on this experience. Do some research if you don’t believe, find out more about the topic if you can’t make up your mind on this situation.

      Plus if this wasn’t the boss, it was just a regular person working in the office, would we even 2nd guess what the required action would be? Does status really exempt you from criminal prosecution? Make no mistake, this is criminal activity we’re talking about here – I would hope no one would think that status does give you a get out jail card for free.

      The ethicist in the NY Times column should have given better advice. Give you heads a shake people, these are children we’re talking about?!

    • #3216670

      Just how did it get there???

      by dawgit ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      But that is a Question that must be answered by someone else. (too many time I’ve seen people set up to take a fall that way, and they they fell into it because of lax security on their part) There is no question about if you do something, You MUST do something. The question is what. Which brings up a realy good discussion.
      -Policys-
      Just what do you do? Who do you call? How is this handled? What is the Procedures for the like in your firm?
      Now is the time to ask, not after something is found. there should be policies and standards in place at every firm in operation. In writing.!. Ask about them, or even write them your self. (the local law enforcement folks will probably be glad to help.)
      I think that is what we, as IT Techies, should be discussing. so a thank-you to Leee for bringing it up. 🙂

    • #3216661

      Ethics has little to do with this

      by johnny bee ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      We place far too much emphasis on the repercussions to ourselves and others who may or may not be engaged in questionable activity. These pictures are a clear violation of the use of company computers – no matter what company we are talking about.

      It does not matter that the pictures may be of “young-looking adults” the simple fact is that they are intended to look exactly as they are designed – as young teens possibly underaged. Is the discoverer obligated to now become a detective and determine the “truth” of the pictures? I think I would be more concerned now that if this boss gets caught by someone else, and it comes out that the “Ethicist” was aware of the pics, that he will be implicated as adding and abetting by letting it happen.

      Which brings me directly to the point of all this. Far too many people take the easy road out of such situations saying that we don’t know the truth of the matter behind the pictures. Too many people stand by the old axiom that “it’s known of my business”. It DOES NOT matter how the pictures wre discovered and revealed when it comes to child safety – the law actually supports casual discovery, at least in Canada – from an innocent discoverer.

      When it comes to the question of child safety – we are obligated to err on the side of caution for the sake of all children. Cohen would have us bury our heads in the sand and do nothing. I would advise the HR department of what I had found, perhpas not exactly where, or on who’s system, but would advise them that I am concerned enough to turn the matter over to police. Whether unfounded or not, I would rather stand up for my own principles that NO ONE should be supporting the ownership, distribution or creation of such questionable material, and that those who let it happen are just as culpable as those who perpetrate the act. I would not want to work for someone of such questionable character, nor would I want to work for a company that would want me to remain silent due to some small shred of doubt. I’d rather go to bed at night knowing I tried to do the right thing – consequences to myself be damned. Do you really think that other companies would look on this as a blot on your resume, should have to find employment elsewhere? I would think that a person of such integrity and principles would be welcomed by the better working environments.

    • #3216654

      Other considerations…

      by rkg ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Think like a paranoid… Where are the pics on the computer? Assume you had a different employee that was tech savy, and a boss that is clueless. One way to do avoid risk is to place the files on someone else’s machine. Check file ownership, etc.
      Second, if the files are there, and if they are discovered by someone else, and it turned out that you knew of their presence, you may have some liability; even if you need the job, it is a question of how much of a bullet you are willing to absorb, in worst-case scenario.
      Then, sit back, and think somewhere away from work; don’t let the everyday environment cloud your thoughts, as you decide. Once you decide on a course of action, document what you find, what you plan to do, and make certain there is not rancor or malice in your actions. Save the documentation somewhere away from work.
      This may be a good time to chat with some legal counsel before you act. It may also be a good time to look for a different position.

      • #3216614

        Not the detective

        by maevinn ·

        In reply to Other considerations…

        Quote: Think like a paranoid… Where are the pics on the computer? Assume you had a different employee that was tech savy, and a boss that is clueless. One way to do avoid risk is to place the files on someone else’s machine. Check file ownership, etc.
        End Quote

        Nope–I’m not a detective and it’s not my responsibility to determine the owner of illegal files. By checking them multiple times, you risk implicating yourself. Discover, report. Anything else will be handled by those trained in determining the truth. Anything else done could make it harder for the cops to do their job!

    • #3216609

      If you have access to your boss’ computer

      by jackintheback ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      who’s to say that you didn’t plant it?
      are you guy’s in the business of making child porn?
      key word is “boss’computer” not your computer. . .not your child’s computer. . be thankful for the purity in your life. . .did you get the information you were “needing” from your boss’ computer, or were you so distracted that you became inefficient?
      seriously, I’ve found porn, and I destroy it, no interrogating, no dwelling on the issue, just DELETE. no need to become a cancerous boil on the ass of my company,

      • #3216550

        If you delete child porn without reporting it

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to If you have access to your boss’ computer

        you are a cancerous boil on the ass of humanity.

        Seriously….

      • #3288005

        Does the company’s policy allow to view porn website?

        by tigre_one_99 ·

        In reply to If you have access to your boss’ computer

        Tell your boss that “some employee” has porn pictures in his computer, and ask him (your boss), what is his opinion about it?, if He wants you to block all porn websites for “all” company computers because of the companys security policy, also ask him what does he recommend to do, because he is the boss and “he should know the best solution for this problem”

      • #2929789

        You’re a cancerous boil

        by bamyclouse ·

        In reply to If you have access to your boss’ computer

        on SOCIETY, period. You will eventually be found out and if it’s kiddie porn, someone’s going to start looking your life over with a microscope, asking why you would protect people with porn on their work computers.

        Does prove one thing about some bosses…but I will decline to put the exact title here, just use your imagination as to what they DO while they’re looking at porn (assuming it’s even possible for them anymore…)

        • #2915701

          You sure seem to have thought about that a lot

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You’re a cancerous boil

          the child porn and all. Something you are not telling us? Protesteth too much?

    • #3216601

      silent consent is consent

      by jackintheback ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      silent objection would be deleting it. . .
      Your concience would be cleared by action.
      if it happens again, its not your fault.
      if your boss has sex with a child during a company meeting, that is a crime, there are witnesses and every one can testify against the criminal. active participation in the removal of undesired behavior is every one’s job.
      if you don’t object, it will grow

      • #3216548

        During a company meeting ?

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to silent consent is consent

        so it’s not a crime off the premises, or during lunch then?

        Generally the only witness to child abuse is the child. I dare say even you would raise some sort of trifling objection if it happened in front of you.

    • #3216595

      Some of you people scare me…

      by antagonist ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      First of all, those of you advocating ‘call the cops immediately’, consider this: How hard is it really to plant pictures on someone’s computer?

      It is laughable how easy it would be for me to frame someone with this kind of material. To think otherwise is naive to the extreme.

      This is what you do:

      Confront the person who had this filth on their computer, watch their reaction closely. Look for surprise versus indignation. Surprise would indicate innocence and indignation would indicate anger at being caught. If they are indignant, you punch them in the face 10 or 15 times and throw them out a window. If they are surprised, tell them someone has framed them, show them the filth and that you are making an exact image of their hard drive and storing it in a safe place as evidence against the framer. Then conduct the investigation yourself, get the names of all the people that are the victim’s enemy. Then repeat this process with all of them, looking for the indignant, punching them, throwing them out the window.

      Once that is done, make sure that everyone in the company knows why the person was beaten to a pulp and that the same fate will befall anyone else that does it.

      • #3216573

        Besides being a moron, less than half right

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to Some of you people scare me…

        The disk image is taken FIRST, under the close supervision of HR.

        YOU do NOTHING without supervision or it comes down to your word vs theirs.

        YOU do not confront them, HR does. It is their job to follow this down, not some lowly tech that is riding high and mighty.

        Unless you wish to share a cell with your boss, provided the pics are real and are illegal. Either way, you will be doing time.

      • #3216571

        You scare me.

        by jamesrl ·

        In reply to Some of you people scare me…

        Whether or not it is easy to frame someone, is not your concern. That is a matter for the courts. They decide guilt or innocence, not you.

        Possession of child porn is against the law in every civilized (and many uncivilized) countries. If you encouter child porn, hand over the responsibility to the legal authorities.

        Let me counter your stupid scenario:

        You see the guilt and punch him out. You are escorted out the building by HR for assault. He gets access to his computer and destroys the evidence. You are convicted for assault and the child porn lover can’t be prosecuted. Gee I would sleep better at night – NOT.

        Or you determine the guy is innocent and start interviewing people. Person who is guilty takes steps to eliminate the evidence and bingo, you are helping the guilty escape.

        In most organizations I’ve been in even raising a fist with an agressive attitude is enough to get you fired. I witnessed someone fired for just such an act – I don’t know if he had intended to hit someone, but it looked like it.

        Similar scenario happened recently in New Brunswick. Neighbours were tired of the local drug dealer getting away with making and selling out of his house. Gang of vigilantes takes it upon themselves to burn the place down. They are arrested, charged and convicted. They burnt the house down containing the evidence. The drug dealer gets off free.

        http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061118/dealer_fire_061118/20061118?hub=TopStories

        I’m glad you don’t work for me, you wouldnt for long.

        James

        • #2929783

          My guess is the guy who raised the fist is not a physician in a hospital`

          by bamyclouse ·

          In reply to You scare me.

          If that were enough to get someone fired in a hospital, I’d have seen many physicians fired, charged with assault and in many cases battery.

          Same for parents as regards teachers.

          Reason why there’s a shortage of both…and as the nurses left, physician aggression started targeting lab personnel, imaging personnel, pharmacy personnel, etc. Now a shortage in ALL healthcare positions.

          Multiple surveys show that physician violence, threatened or real, is a huge reason for the healthcare shortage, but since doctors supposedly bring the patients in, they’re viewed as money makers while the others are viewed as monetary drains and are not important enough to protect.

          Policies are in place but never enforced. Unless for some reason they want to.

          It’s put a bad taste in the mouths of many healthcare workers – often FORMER HC workers, even though the good ones outnumber the bad ones. Patients never see this.

          What’s the parallel? If the worker is viewed as unimportant then raising a fist to them is not a problem and canning them for teling not considered a problem either.

          But you still do the right thing, until you get beaten (literally or figuratively or both) into submission or you just change professions.

      • #3216554

        let the police perform their own investigation…

        by unclerob ·

        In reply to Some of you people scare me…

        that’s usually what happens.

        I don’t think he’d be thrown in jail unless he went to court and was allowed his due process – it’s up to the courts to determine if he’s guilty or not – if he’s innocent, he has nothing to worry about.

        People that are into this filth also tend to be dumb (aside from being evil). I’m sure if he’s guilty, the trail of bread crumbs wouldn’t stop at his computer. I’m sure he this crap at home as well. I’m also sure if necessary, his internet browsing habits could be pieced together to determine if he’s guilty or not.

        Predators of children need to be dealt with swiftly so that they can’t harm anymore children.

      • #3216547

        Nope

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to Some of you people scare me…

        They’ll let the c**t off because he’s already suffered and he once watched a Britney Spears video.

        Punch him in the face after he’s sentenced.

    • #3216582

      [b]This does not pass the smell test[/b]

      by jdclyde ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      While it does make for an exciting rant about stringing up someone for possible child porn, I have installed software on MANY work systems and have yet to find a need to snoop through personal directories looking at their pictures.
      [b]
      If the story were real, yes report. I am betting the story is just a bunch of BS and surprised most of you didn’t see past the obvious emotional land mines to the fraud that it is.[/b]

      The guy clearly not getting enough attention and is trying to drum some up by making this story up.

      How do the laws in Canada differ from the US on this, I wonder.

      • #3216566

        Its always possible

        by jamesrl ·

        In reply to [b]This does not pass the smell test[/b]

        I had a job to do some file recovery on a crashed HD and was told to do some random checks. I found porn, but nothing illegal. I informed IT security and they never said a word again about it, as is their policy.

        As to how the laws differ in Canada, not much really. We do have active units at all levels of policing attacking internet child porn. There was a court case about written words not distributed which scared some people, but images are clearly illegal. Our court systems are not that dissimilar – we have pretty similar rules of evidence, both based on British common law, we sometimes use american cases as precidents. We don’t have a Miranda warning – if you don’t ask for your rights, they don’t have to tell you.

        James

        • #3216561

          I still don’t buy it

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Its always possible

          and thus, don’t buy into it.

          Unless we turn this in to a hypothetical and assume this tech actually did come across this in the legitimate course of his duties.

          From the time the pics are found, no one should be allowed on that computer for ANYTHING, and no one allowed alone with it. Unplug it from the LAN, if not turn it right off. In a case like this, I think I would even be afraid to make the disk image. After all, you WOULD be making copies of an illegal file.

        • #3216544

          Yep sit in the bosses chair. Get HR

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to I still don’t buy it

          and as many others to sit with you as witnesses while the authorities are contacted. Write down the name of anyone who objects, after all there must be a reason.

          Don’t touch anything, a tech is capable of planting the evidence given enough freedom and you don’t want the real guilty party whoever it might be to get off.

          It could be someone else using the bosses computer, the forensics boys will sort that out. Those boys, make us look like grandma waving a mouse about.

        • #3216528

          Seems a strange discussion to me.

          by martinplatt ·

          In reply to Yep sit in the bosses chair. Get HR

          We’re talking about two different issues, one of a tech maybe snooping, and another of illegal materials on a machine.
          I think if the boss had ordered a HDD be searched with some reasonable idea that someone he was in charge of had such images, that person would be in trouble, no moral or ethical dilemmas or whatever the Christian said either. So what is the difference there? If it’s good for the goose…
          The idea that a tech goes through a hard drive first without the boss knowing, and second that he’s actually entitled to do so, well if the situation was sancioned by the company, and it is the company’s property, then he has every right to do whatever he’s told. We normally sign documents to say that the computer equipment is the companies and no offensive material is allowed on it. Seems clear to me. If it’s a tech who is going around looking at computers on some sort of an ego trip, I don’t think that that person would last very long, as they’re probably able to also gain access to potentially confidential documents and thus could themselves be in breach if they divulge those contents of such files. There’s a clear difference though between kiddie porn and business documents. The issue then of someone accessing some image of actually saving that image to a machine is I guess down to intent, and that would define the legality of the actions I guess??

        • #3216511

          If the tech is an IT Nazi snooping without authority

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Seems a strange discussion to me.

          then his ethics can certainly be called into question.
          However if he puts paedo’s in jail, I’ll forgive him unconditionally, once he’s been fired. 😀

          The thing is if you are doing general housekeeping, and you notice disk space is down…

          If you are looking at why people are complaining the internet is slow.

          If you are monitoring traffic and you find people running P2P clients out of the company pipe…

          When are you not doing your job and what unsanctioned activities might you discover in the course of tracking the problem down.

          The guy could just have been bored and glancing at the file names the virus checker was going through or from a defrag.

          A nosey tech is no where near as much of a problem as it being discovered that your company kit is being used to distribute any questionable files, far less child porn.

        • #3216500

          Snoopers..

          by martinplatt ·

          In reply to If the tech is an IT Nazi snooping without authority

          totally agree. If the tech is doing their job, or not and finds a problem then I agree it’s good if they stop these people. From their perspective though, they’d possibly damage their own careers, which I guess is where the morality comes in. for me, there’s no question, but then again, I haven’t done that job for many years.
          Think the issue of having kiddie porn on a machine no matter where it is, is wrong, and should be reported. Whomever finds that should be reporting it, no argument there from me.
          The tech snooping and perhaps using that sort of thing as an excuse, given the minority that have these images, means the the majority might have to be snooped upon.
          For me, I don’t have anything on a work computer that I would not want anyone to see, however it could get out of hand, couldn’t it?
          Kind of moves into the discussion of finding porn on computers and sacking people because of it, and whether that’s right, then maybe the same applies to rude jokes that some people might find offensive… An egotistical techie would have a field day, hey? I think these sorts of problems these days have gone from people using their intelligence to sort them out to having to almost sign away any sense of individuality and sense of humour away before starting a new job.
          Before anyone says anything, I agree the paedophile should be shopped no matter what… Just interested in the knock on effect of such actions.

        • #3216495

          I’ve seen people escorted out of the building because of it

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to If the tech is an IT Nazi snooping without authority

          One clown was downloading entire sites. He was into ebony. The head of HR was young, female and of african descent. 😀

          He didn’t get sacked for offending her though, he got sacked because he was not doing his job.

          Didn’t know much either, I mean we were on a proxy for f’s sake. I’d have sacked him for being too stupid.

          You have no real privacy at work, doesn’t have to be porn, could be TR. 😀

          I’m reading the C# and .NET articles boss.
          Honest

          I can understand not minding looking at pictures of naked ladies, makes perfect sense if there’s a shortage of actual ones.

          I can’t understand being dumb enough to do it at work though, you might as well p:ss in the corner of the boss’ office.

        • #3216483

          not too strange

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to Seems a strange discussion to me.

          Personally, I can care less what is on someones system, unless it causes a problem. I do respect data privacy, and although it is unimportant to me, it is this persons important information. I work for a department that has company confidential information regularly (legal), and I have worked on HR, Credit Union, Finance and Govt. Affairs systems. The people trust me enough to send these materials to me or open them for me for problem solving — on the promise that I delete it or do not discuss it. I usually dont read more than the header or any large text that cannot be avoided.

          With that in mind, I have personally found unwanted material on systems, so it might not be a joke.
          When hired at this company, you need to sign off that the computer is owned by the company, and so does all data. We take yearly training courses which state what is and is not allowed.

          So it is entirely possible that his is a ruthful story, or that it was based on a truthful event.
          Although it is more likely that someone was snooping, I am not going to judge it.

          If the tech was snooping, then it could/would mean termination at least. But, they should step forward and inform the company security, HR, or a different manager. HR or security would be the best choices.
          If it was just porn, I would let the person know that it is a bad descision and warn them from those types of sites on the work syste, or bring up company policy. But the nature of this porn is disturbing and illegal, so the company needs to specify what needs to be done.

    • #3216519

      There have been CEOs fired over porn

      by georgeou ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      If it’s regular porn, report it to HR because it’s a violation of company policy.
      If it’s child porn, report it to the police because it’s a violation of the LAW and decency.

      I don’t know what the problem is here.

      • #3224141

        Hmmm

        by cely ·

        In reply to There have been CEOs fired over porn

        Company computers are for working on, not for keeping personal porn libraries of any description.

        As for kiddie porn, I don’t believe it’s possible to accidentally wander onto such a site… they keep them well hidden from what I’ve read. So yes I would report it. Not because it’s the ethical thing to do, but because it’s the right thing to do.

        • #3224133

          Police are more qualified to verify where the porn came from

          by georgeou ·

          In reply to Hmmm

          The police have to do an audit of who that file got on the computer. If it was downloaded from a website, there will be a lot of it in the temp folders. Even if the temp folders were flushed, they can still be recovered.

          This brings up a dilemma. What if someone who doesn’t like someone else deliberately puts porn in to that user’s computer? Does someone get framed that easily and gets fired? Does that person go to jail if someone else put child porn on his system?

        • #3224055

          Every convicted criminal was framed…

          by tonythetiger ·

          In reply to Police are more qualified to verify where the porn came from

          …just ask them!

        • #3223810

          Ah but porn on a work computer doesn’t mean the user did it

          by georgeou ·

          In reply to Every convicted criminal was framed…

          Porn on a home computer is very unlikely, but it’s very easy for someone who doesn’t like you to plant porn on your machine.

        • #3288940

          Only if

          by tonythetiger ·

          In reply to Ah but porn on a work computer doesn’t mean the user did it

          machine and network security is lax and/or or the user is negligent.

        • #3288927

          No, not so fast…

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to Only if

          You would also have to consider physicle security in the area of that particular computer. If a machine is in an accesable area, it is vunerable to any wanabe cracker with a Linux-live-CD. This whole string is realy about 1 thing, -Security. Having Porn on a firms computer is a security problem. Having ‘kiddie’-porn on a computer is a major problem to the company where it’s Located. ANd what’s worst, is that with out good total security it is extreamly hard to fight.
          Somewhere in this string, I posted another problem, one that can be fixed. Ond solves the predicument that started this whole post. There must be a written Policy that address this situations, as well as others. With such, there is no question as to what to do. One just follows the policies, simple, no judgements involved. And it could save the firm $mil$ in potential legal costs.

        • #3288923

          Does company policy

          by tonythetiger ·

          In reply to Only if

          absolve a person from their legal responsibility? I don’t think so.

        • #3288921

          That would be true of 90% of users

          by georgeou ·

          In reply to Only if

          Most users think nothing of sharing their passwords with coworkers.

          Even if it’s someone who is careful, nothing prevents any one in IT (desktop support even) from planting things.

        • #3288906

          If anything….

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to Only if

          A well written policy should place an emphasis on their responsibilities, and by doing so remove any doubts as to the “ah gee, What do I do now” syndrome. It would also protect someone from possible reprecusions when they do do their job. (when in the scope of what they were supposed to doing.)
          So, in answer to your question, NO, it should NOT do that. It should re-enforce their legal responsibility. -d

    • #3216518

      100% certain it is child porn?

      by jrhenry ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Call the police or the RCMP-done.(Canadain)
      Once the authorities are on site they will probably lockdown all workstations and servers until a complete forensic investigation has been completed.

    • #3216513

      Find out your company’s official policy on child porn.

      by kmilling ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      1. You need to find out what the company’s policy is because of two reasons – it will tell you who to contact if you find it and how they deal with it. As an example my employer (Canadian military) will fire the boss and turn him over to the civilian police.
      2. If no policy contact your IT security officer. Ask them to investigate saying he was doing a security audit and discovered the child porn. This would meet both your moral and legal requirements.
      3. If no IT security officer get, either, an outside lawyer or report it to the company legal department (anonymously if necessary).
      4. It is very important to report also to protect yourself in case the boss gets caught down the road. If they discovered that you had accessed those pictures and failed to report it you could be leaving yourself open to legal actions. Using my employer as an example, you could be looking at being fined, your job put on probation or possibly being fired with no pension/severance.

    • #3224158

      No more porn, now favourite way is non-nude child

      by babylooniah ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      I see many new kind of web site where isn,t porn but children have a clothes no more nude so i think that is good way to out of porn, and pedophil not get punishment, and also webmaster who do that, child model is future way to make glad and joy to pedophil people its not unlegal, child not hurt, thanks that idea who make it

      • #3224123

        you are one scary dude

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to No more porn, now favourite way is non-nude child

        .

        • #3224074

          100% agree

          by unclerob ·

          In reply to you are one scary dude

          – I think that’s the first time I read a response from someone who is looking out for the best interests of the pedophile/child predator.

      • #3224072

        please don’t post any more replies in this forum

        by unclerob ·

        In reply to No more porn, now favourite way is non-nude child

        I read your response and it scares me.

        Then I read your name, “babylooniah”, I don’t want to make any assumptions and I would hope you’re not one of these predators you seem to be looking out for with your “joy to pedophile” idea?!

        I would say that it would be a huge waste of time & energy to cater to the needs of a sick & twisted group of people that prey on children.

        Put more money into rehabilitation for children affected by this terrible problem, put more money into awareness programs so that people are educated into how a big a problem it really is, put more resources into hunting down these pedophiles and placing them in jail forever!

      • #3224013

        WTF

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to No more porn, now favourite way is non-nude child

        If this was a joke, it was a bad one.

        If it isn’t, you need locking up as a danger to children.

    • #3224120

      New York Times & Ethics

      by edglock21 ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      …there’s an oxymoron.

      As for the “scenario”; make an image of the HD and report it to whomever YOU think will have your back.

      At the company I worked at previously, this type of thing was taken very seriously (ANY pornographic pictures were grounds for dismissal).

      However, there were CLEAR WRITTEN guidelines that spelled this out and everyone in the company had to sign their name that they had recieved and read the guidelines. A company without clear written guidelines would get eaten alive by the sharks, errr…lawyers for the defense. And there were clear written policies regarding many things one was permitted to do with the company’s property (e.g. the computers, printers, phones, etc.).

      A big company concerned with it’s reputation would likely take action against the “boss”; a small sole-proprietor/partnership company may try to sweep it under the rug. There’s not enough info in the scenario to make a call on who to/where to report the offense.

      Silence is obviously not the proper course of action – the individual would have to make the decision on whom he could trust and report the issue to that person/entity.

    • #3224113

      Really Easy

      by mill3502 ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      I work for a government agency, rule number one, if you find anyone breaking the law than you must turn them in. If you are found to have known and not turned them in you shall be fired.

      Makes it kind of simple.

    • #3224112

      BURN HIM

      by reiley 411 ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      He could be molesting kids for all you know. If you found out later that that was the case wouldn’t you feel the least bit guilty knowing you could have stopped it?

      • #3274212

        not an it guy

        by awhite ·

        In reply to BURN HIM

        YEA what if it were your kid what then

    • #3224097

      Sick and Stupid

      by jatcan ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      I cannot beleive a Tech Republic writer suggested the best course of action is SILENCE. Silence means whomever is doing this is going to KEEP ON doing this. SILENCE makes you no better than your boss or the sick fucks who take these types of pic’s in the first place! The ONLY course of action is inform the police and start looking for a new job…as a matter of fact I’d work with the police to make sure it was the BOSS who was actually doing this. As an IT professional one can setup monitoring and logs to locate the true source of these sick pictures…I mean come on…recommedning silence as the best course of action is just SO WRONG on SO many levels…

      • #3224090

        I can’t believe your lack of reading comprehension

        by jamesrl ·

        In reply to Sick and Stupid

        No where do I see anyone from Tech Republic suggesting silence.

        The Tech Republic writer (Hi Lee!) merely referenced a NY Times article and asked our opinions.

        James

        • #3224001

          Oops

          by jatcan ·

          In reply to I can’t believe your lack of reading comprehension

          Emotions always get the better of me when these things are discussed….I am usually more in control and I usually pay more attention to what I read…the subject matter totally freaked me out..

          Appologies to the writer.

        • #3223989

          Apology accepted

          by leee ·

          In reply to Oops

          It’s my personal policy not to editorialize except in the possible case of a blog post. The idea was to get feedback and discussion from real-life admins, and I am heartened to see that people feel strongly about their personal ethics and roles in such situations–regardless of the course of action they might ultimately take. The overall message I’m seeing is to “let your conscience (be it formed by law, religion or experience) be your guide.”

    • #3224092

      Agree silence is best action? You are also guilty!

      by jatcan ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      The article clearly states that the porn in question is child/early teen porn. NOT ADULT porn, which is something entirely different. For those of you who agree that silence is the best course of action, I suggest you take a good long look in the mirror while thinking aout your daughters and young female relatives who MAY(GOD FORBID) go through something just like this!!! For god’s sakes where is the morality gone to! IS your job/money now more important than the lives of these young human beings?

      • #2929779

        Adult porn is a gateway to child porn and should be stopped

        by bamyclouse ·

        In reply to Agree silence is best action? You are also guilty!

        Porn is addictive. Addiction by definition means you take more and more, and when you don’t get enough of a thrill from the original, you go deeper and deeper until you are so depraved you believe that sexual images of innocent children – often made slaves by purchase from poor 3rd world parents – is their right under the First Amendment or whatever passes for it in other countries.

        Therefore, pornography IN ANY FORM should be eliminated. And those who use it, stopped before the addiction progresses.

        It is amazing to me that in the US, we are more interested in silencing Christian broadcasts than we are in silencing pornographers. Perhaps it’s because our leaders partake of porn and are convicted by the Christian message?

        • #2915553

          I was just quickly browsing thru here and your topic caught my eye.

          by ontheropes ·

          In reply to Adult porn is a gateway to child porn and should be stopped

          Prove your assertions. I don’t believe it.

          I’ve been into viewing porn in the past, so I admit it, and I’ve never sought out child porn even though I’ve inadvertently seen it way back when in newsgroups.

          Adult porn isn’t like a ‘gateway drug’. You’ve probably even bought into that bit of fiction too.

          Use your head for something besides a hatrack. Maybe viewing adult porn has made YOU want to view kiddie porn but it certainly hasn’t made that so for, what I’ll bet, is the vast majority of porn viewers.

          Don’t even think about bringing religion into this. It’s got not one damn thing to do with it.

        • #2915514

          Porn is addictive. Addiction by definition means you take more and more

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Adult porn is a gateway to child porn and should be stopped

          Wrong.

          Just as with drug use, it is entirely dependant on the user. Some people take drugs to overcome other issues, as the drugs do less and less they seek stronger drugs.

          This does not make marijuana a gateway drug, it merely means that there are many people who are unable to find alternate resources to solve unrelated problems.

          Most sex offenders are not people who sought out adult porn and then started seeking younger and younger people until becoming a child sex offender. The offender always has much deeeper issues to begin with. I have studied criminal psyche on this matter before and there are no scientific facts to support your emotionally driven comments.

          SOME people have psychological issues they are not able to deal with alone and they do not find the right help or it is unavailable to them for various reasons.

          The rest of us are able to deal with issues in other ways or may have been fortunate enough not to experience what we can’t handle, therefore we don’t need to seek out drugs, sex, violence as avenues to deal with them.

          This leaves most adults to use these personal, adult choices responsibly and recreationally without an addictive or gateway side effect.

          Why should YOU restrict anyones freedoms, just because you can’t differentiate fact from emotion and personal belief?

    • #3224082

      ethics, morality, and law

      by ray.mosely ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Ethics, morality, and law are three distincly
      separate concepts.
      As some have noted, the Bible offers guidance
      on morality. Ethics and the law may also
      offer guidance, but in any event morality
      follows some sort of personal code.
      Ethics generally applies to a formal or
      informal code that applies to a profession.
      Seen in that light and the total thread of
      this discussion, I would say that the profession
      of IT needs some work in the ethics department.
      There seems to be a wide variation of
      viewpoints on the right and wrong of this
      situation because of a lack of an ethical
      code for IT.
      Legally, in the US, there is no middle ground
      for this scenario. As stated, you have
      found child porn on the computer. You
      are legally obliged to report it to the
      police.
      As a practical matter, it does matter how
      you found it and how far you went with
      examining the computer. If you found it in
      an illegal search and/or continued to look
      for evidence, your own morality comes into
      question and you have also broken the law.
      An immoral person might want to consider
      some sort of cover up. If you found it by
      accident, you should try to document it
      with a print out and immediately stop
      looking. Let the police handle it through
      appropriate search and seizure procedures, in
      other words a search warrant.
      Copying the hard drive was suggested, but
      that is also illegal without a warrant unless
      you have been instructed to do so. Such
      instructions may actually be illegal under
      laws governing the 4th amendment rights to
      privacy, without a warrant. This would
      depend on how company or public agency
      policy is written and how it is applied on
      a daily basis.

      Morally, I find this situation repugnant.
      I would also find the loss of work less than
      desirable. But there is always work for a
      competent IT person.
      Ethically, it is clear that the IT profession
      can not police itself. The variation of
      viewpoints shows that. We need a code of
      ethics that covers these situations.
      Legally, it is a no brainer. Report it.
      Unless of course you don’t want to be
      caught engaging in other illegal activities
      you are engaged in.
      As a practical matter, you should report
      it directly to the police, and immediately
      after that report it to a company official
      perferably HR, compliance officer or legal
      staff, just to give them a heads up.
      If you are fired, then you hire a lawyer.
      And of course document your actions with
      written notes.

      • #3224077

        KIDS!! End of discussion.

        by clallo4444 ·

        In reply to ethics, morality, and law

        I have found porn on employee’s PC’s. Good ol’ american, fake boobie, 18 year old porn on your PC is dumb but not deplorable. I couldn’t live with myself if I ignored Kiddie stuff. How can you be sexually attracted to something that isn’t even sexually developed? Donkey shows make more sense to me.

        End the war on drugs and prostitution. Put every penny into making sure kiddie porn makers and collectors are jailed or dead.

        • #2929778

          What do you think FEEDS this stuff????

          by bamyclouse ·

          In reply to KIDS!! End of discussion.

          People who are on drugs, prostitution, feed this sort of thing. Teen runaways made prostitutes, you say end the war on prostitution? ARE YOU NUTS???? They get INTO this stuff for drugs, too. Come ON, get a grip!

          Or is it OK by you to view pornographic images of women and disrespect yourself and those women? Knowing it’s a gateway and sooner or later you’ll be defending kiddie porn and not fighting it.

    • #3224071

      Child Porn should never be kept Quiet

      by dduffy ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      If there is child porn on the computer, then the police must be informed. The local jurisdiction’s Sexual Assault unit or the FBI could be contacted, but the bottom line is you have to step up to the plate. If you keep silent on such a heinous crime for the sake of keeping your job, then what else would you allow for $.

    • #3224058

      Been there, done that…

      by florida_kes ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      When I worked at a mid-sized corporation, I discovered that our interm company President was surfing “normal” porn sites. I notified my boss, who notified his boss (CFO) who just happened to have a pet peeve against the President.

      Bottom line: Within two months, EVERYONE who was involved with the issue including me, my manager, the CFO and various other company officers who tried to use the situation to remove the President got canned by the parent company.

      • #2929776

        Sounds like the parent company had stock in porn sites

        by bamyclouse ·

        In reply to Been there, done that…

        You are all better off out of it, but the loss of a job is tough.

    • #3224057

      This is such a rediculous forum, its amusing

      by ashforde ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      As has been cited so many times already here, if a crime has been committed, it must be reported; no question. If a breach of policy has been committed, it must be reported; no question.
      Reported to whom, that is the question. It depends entirely on the organization and its organizational structure. Perhaps you report it to a superior, perhaps to the police, perhaps to a superior of the “perp”, etc.. As for the copying of evidence….stupid to say the least; at least initially. Wait to hear the comments, suggestions, orders, etc. of whom ever you report the crime to. If they are in left field and take illegal action such as deleting evidence to save someones ass, they are guilty of aiding and abetting and then it is time to report to the police. They can have their IT forensics retrieve whatever data they can….short of scrubbing the disk, their will be enough left on the disk to recover anything that has been deleted…..

    • #3224004

      Between Rock and Hard Place

      by tcdood ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      As THE I.T. support person, I have found Porn on desktops, and reported it to upper management. Mostly, it fell on deaf ears. By pushing the issue, I would have brought unwanted attention to the “problem”. I believe HR should be made aware of the situation.
      Most HR personnel, even though they say they are on your side, will protect the company. If the HR person has any guts, He/she would discretely mention it to the manager, and have him remove it.
      I also have the case where the boss brings in his laptop from home, filled with “PORN” pictures. When you are asked to update software, or service packs, it put me in an awkward spot. If you refuse to work on it (for higher ethical or moral grounds), you are insubordinate.
      In these cases, I am not talking “illegal” porn. The question must be asked, are you willing to risk your job to maintain the higher ground. Sure, the Manager may be punished, but you may be as well, because you made it an issue. Most companies cannot handle the scandal.
      My personal account was when a female boss brought in boxes of company documents from home. While sorting through them, I found a “Personal Massage Product”. I discretely put it back in the box, finished sorting, and returned the box. I still think I made the correct choice.

    • #3223973

      Do the Right Thing

      by anindependentintherepublic ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      I don?t care how child porn is discovered. The right thing to do is to make sure the proper authorities are notified. ANYone that suggests any other course of action is a fool. To not report the offense(s) ASSumes you are living in a vacuum, i.e. let?s say you don?t report it to the police or FBI and simply notify HR who will assuredly have as much to lose as you will if the offender is a ranking officer in the company or worse, could conceivably be interested in the same type of material. The HR person could choose to not only notify the offender but also disclose who found the material in the first place. Then the next day the FBI raids the office because of an ongoing investigation in to the actions of the perpetrator. The IT person?s computer will certainly be confiscated so any information you have saved about the offender is in their hands. What would you say? ?Uhhm, I meant to turn him in, honest I did?? Good luck. Even worse, if the pedophile is somehow tipped off, it would give him time to pull the hard drive and destroy it before disposing of it. It takes about ten minutes of easy manual labor to quarter a hard drive with a vise and a hacksaw.

      True story: The owner of a local pawnshop wanted to contract me to give incoming computers a going over and make sure no traces of anything illegal could be recovered from said computers. When I told him I would be obligated to call the police if I found child porn. He said ?Noooo, just get rid of it, I don?t want the publicity for my shop.? When I told him that was not an option, he got pissed and picked up the first computer he brought to me and left my office. His wife later told me that she didn?t want me to think ill of her husband because he really would turn over anything illegal to his friend the local county cop, just as he told me he would. Problem of course is that he never told me anything of the kind. Which even if he did intend to give it to the police, by giving the computer to a middleman, wouldn?t I also be guilty of distributing child porn? He lied to his wife and he knows I know he lied to his wife. I have no respect for the guy who in retrospect could have been hiding something. What could be a better cover story than to take a used computer to a technician and profess no knowledge of its contents? Is he into kiddy porn? I don?t know but I can?t say I?m not suspicious. Is there anyone I can or should notify? No. Am I a hero? No. Am I out a little pocket change? Yes, but I don?t lose any sleep over not doing the right thing.

    • #3223970

      Many solutions, but are we missing the point?

      by halvbria ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Reading through all the posted options, most of the replys say the same thing: Take it to HR or police or at least someone higher as well as consult company policy. All this is well and good and no matter who you ask you will get similar answers.
      Are we missing the point of this discussion though? It was stated that a tech wrote to a newspaper and someone reading the newspaper started the discussion here. More than likly the author of the newspaper article is not going to read this discussion, and it’s doubtful if the tech that submitted the question to the paper will read this discussion either. If he were reading this, would it not have made more sense to ask the Techie community rather than a local newspaper?
      I think the main point of this entire situation has already been met: The topic is out and being discussed. The situation originally submitted may or may not be real, but it does happen. Discussing it beforehand lets people know what their best option is IF they ever do run into the situation.

      Sorry for the book.

    • #3223948

      In the Balance of Life

      by mickster269 ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      If it’s between a Job, and a Child…

      There’s not a question in my mind.

      The safety of a child, and upholding the law takes precedence over any employment.

    • #3223931

      Don’t just sit there.

      by peter_chajka ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      It is the responsibility of whoever finds child pornography to report it, at the very least to their supervisor. By not taking any action, you become involved in the crime.

      Plus, it’s just the right thing to do!

    • #3223857

      Courtesy and Co-worker relationship…..

      by yanipen ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Here’s a suggestion. Give some courtesy first in a way that both of you will benifit.

      With all the powers that be on being an IT, we sometimes forget some basic things about our relationships with our coworkers. Giving courtesy is the same for everyone, whether you are a “C” level or a janitor.

      I understand there are policies to be uphold. I agree. But life will be much better if you approach this humanely rather that being stri ct to the letter about policies.

      Did he had those by accident, or intentionally? Did you come to know about this intentionally, or by accident? A lot of factors are involved. The outcome will depend on your approach. For example, ask admin or hr to re-post a company-wide memo regarding this issue such as porn. A subtle approach, but it will definitely work. Or, you can you come by to him in a hallway, just talked to him with a low voice that you accidentally saw some porn and that you are concenrned. This way, the problem may be resolved without escalating.

      Everybody makes mistakes once in a while. I have said my piece.

      • #3289105

        Committing a crime is not a mistake

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to Courtesy and Co-worker relationship…..

        It’s a choice.
        Getting caught is a mistake.
        Not being prepared to pay the price is.

        If it was a few images in the cache it could be a mistake, you don’t mistakenly save images and or videos in a separate area on your drive though.

        I’m known for being about as subtle as a kick in the teeth, which would be a good start for a nonce.

        • #3288919

          Agreed

          by georgeou ·

          In reply to Committing a crime is not a mistake

          nt

        • #3288852

          No argument there…

          by yanipen ·

          In reply to Committing a crime is not a mistake

          But I am not contradicting myself.

          It will always comes down to the one who did took notice of the porn in the boss’ pc. And the steps he will make.

          We know we have to uphold the policies in place. But there should be several degree’s on offenses one should make. One example, a few years ago, there’s this big multinational construction company wherein one of the managers bougth from overseas a nude painting, although it is artistic in nature (it is a version of adam and eve, and not porn) and displayed in his office. After a few days hr noticed it and gave him a verbal warning. two days later, the painting is still there. That was the time hr took action. It escalated to some degree and the end result was that the manager was not with us anymore. And the so-called friends of this manager (also “C” managers) gave those hr people a hard time after that, even though they have no fault in everyway. Had that manager returned the courtesy the hr’s giving, everyone will not suffer the headache everybody had. I know, I was there.

          That is why my point was to give some courtesy first. Like a friend or a family giving some advice. If that person did not listen, then its time for some action on the company’s part.

        • #3288786

          Big argument there

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Committing a crime is not a mistake

          In terms of child pornography there are no degrees. ‘You’ are either one of us or one of them. Having one picture of child being abused is no different to having a 1000. As soon as you can cross that line in your head, in my book you are dog food that hasn’t been diced into manageable lumps yet.

        • #3287792

          Re: Big argument there

          by yanipen ·

          In reply to Big argument there

          “As soon as you can cross that line in your head, in my book you are dog food that hasn’t been diced into manageable lumps yet.”

          Hey, I think there’s no need to call other people like that. It just make you like a “boil” that’s about to be ruptured. The kind that hurts when touched. That’s who you are in my book.

          Please dont get me wrong about my post, since everbody is entitled to their opinion. I gave my views based from my experience and from where I am. I learned a lot in this discussion, and I appreciate a lot of views from other people in your country. It amazes me about the way people adhere to the policies in place. And the reaction to this sensitive topic.

          Now I wonder about the views from other members who does not come from well-developed, first world countries.

        • #3274230

          The you in this case wasn’t you as it were

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Re: Big argument there

          My apologies if I gave that impression.

          As for experience, I know several victims of child abuse very well. That might have made my reactions a little more extreme than most, but I really don’t care.

          What I want to do is stop it. These people can’t be cured, they can’t be forgiven and they don’t meet my definition of human, which is like me.

          That’s got nothing to do with colour, religion or creed, number of arms, haemoglobin in the blood stream. It’s do you get a hard on looking at pre-pubescent kids.

          If ‘you’ do ‘you’ ain’t like me.

        • #3274206

          there is a cure

          by awhite ·

          In reply to The you in this case wasn’t you as it were

          it is a couple oz. of lead right between the eyes problem solved. If it was someone I cared for getting hurt the person(s) would never make it to trial.

        • #3274192

          What if it was one of your children…

          by anindependentintherepublic ·

          In reply to there is a cure

          …Being abused by a neighbor?

        • #3274152

          Couldn’t agree more, but there’s

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to there is a cure

          a large bunch of gooders who think people with our attitude are more dangerous to society than a ‘reformed’ nonce.

          I always remember one in the UK who was judged cured, they let him out on a weekend pass, first day out , raped and killed an eleven year old girl. I’d shoot the f’ker responsible for that decision as well, might teach a few of the others what their real priorities are.

        • #3273913

          Yeah, sure, a cure

          by yanipen ·

          In reply to there is a cure

          But from where I am, people castrate them, as in they mug you first, and when you are unconscious, drug you so that you won’t feel anything, then they remove your family jewels! Both of them! And then they let you keep them as souvenirs. And then they anonymously tips the police. This is, if they caught you in the act. Thats the cure.

          If not in the act, and otherwise proven guilty. You go to prison. At the prison, you will not wear any manly clothes everyday of your life.

          Going back to the porn on the boss’s pc. We poeple here are not stupid, but we are cautious. And we also react the same. As in react the same especially when it comes to child porn. We take into consideration some details first. Like, what if it what we saw, is an evidence that the boss is holding against an employee who actually did that, that is why we want to extend some courtesy first. If the boss have done it unintentionally, we extend courtesy. If he is guily, its time for some action.

        • #3225539

          Tip, never do that to a guy and leave him alive after

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to there is a cure

          Our criminal and investigatory procedures probably differ. Holding evidence against someone else , will probably put you in jail longer than the paedo over here.

          Not sure how to explain the cultural difference without insulting you in your terms or worse still mine.

          THe courtesy you refer to, we feel should not be a factor. It’s the way we are, but in a vague, wow that’s strange, kind of way, I get what you are driving at.

          Nice to clear that up, my aplogies if I gave any offence in ignorance.

        • #3289493

          Re: Tip, never do that to a guy and leave him alive after

          by yanipen ·

          In reply to there is a cure

          Apology accepted.

          Well, actually, I enjoyed this discussion. It gave new perspective on the moral and ethichal side from different IT counterparts around the world. And I learned a lot.

          One thing I have not noticed though in this discussion. When all the policies have been adhered, and the laws have been followed. I noticed that nobody discussed corporate politics in connection to this issue. I am sure this is connected especially when a boss, or a “c” level manager is involved. Or maybe I should open a discussion about this.

          Hmmm.

        • #2502453

          Well I’d say anyone who suggested not reporting it

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to there is a cure

          as a criminal act is in corporate political mode. After all suggesting that you risk your job or your career, by doing so buys into the idea that those who ‘control’ us at work have more juice than than society outside of work. An argument I have no time for.
          One of my biggest problems with the fuedalism writ large that is the corporate world is the idea that most of our legal rights go straight into the bin, the moment they infringe on a company’s.

        • #2502193

          Oh, I knew that……

          by yanipen ·

          In reply to there is a cure

          Thanks for the refresher, Tony.

    • #3289010

      The Right Course of Action is …

      by dr_zinj ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      You report your suspicions to the police, right now.

      1. The person committed/is committing a felony.

      2. The person is contributing to harm to children/minors.

      3. You have knowledge that such an act is being committed.

      4. Failure to act to prevent such an act means that at best, you’re a spineless coward, and at worst, you approve its occurrence.

      5. If you can be shown to have known of the occurrence of such an act, and failed to report it, you might be able to be prosecuted for conspiracy to commit the acts.

      6. If you can be shown to have known of the occurrence of such an act, and failed to report it, it may also open the company, and all employees in it, up to prosecution for supposedly supporting an institutionalized conspiracy to commit the acts.

      ***

      To put a different spin on this issue. You’re afraid of the wrong things. You’re afraid of losing your job for not reporting it, or for deleting the files.

      If the boss is the owner of the business, or is your supervisor in a business; his justifiable removal may open a business opportunity to you to step in to fill the void.

      And who’s more deserving of that job? You, or some sleazebag child pornographer?

      • #3287872

        Technical vs Personnel issues.

        by brucewebs ·

        In reply to The Right Course of Action is …

        I have been caught up in situtations like this in the past. There should be a bit of analysis first.

        1) PC assigned to an individual was used for demo and placed in a conference room for a week. On day 3 it was discovered that it was used for illegal purposes on day 2. Further analysis showed it was done in “off hours”. Other facilities were used to detect the “who done it” and take appropriate action.

        2) After leaving work on weekends, the PC was returned “non-functional” on Monday. During corrective action illegal info was found and removed. On the FIRST occurrence the individual was warned (management option). Since then occurred again, Human Services was advised, and spoke to the individual. In addition, corrective $$ charges were applied for the failure to secure the laptop, and any further infractions would result in discharge.

        The difference between the two is the ON SITE use by a third party (PC assigned to was not responsible), and the off site use by the assigned individual.

        In either case, the offending material just has to be NOT RELATED to the business use of the PC.

        In either case, your supervisor or personnel should be of assistance in situations such as this. It also helps to have a company policy to rely on.

    • #3288971

      Are you nuts!

      by Anonymous ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      It is a crime, now you are an accomplice
      Silence is for the weak

    • #3288969

      Ethics…

      by fbuchan ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      The field of ethics sometimes strikes me as a swampland.

      Regardless of whether the original article’s author in the Times was answering a real letter, or a manufactured one, it shows a whole lot about his qualifications to advise silence, doesn’t it. I would be apt to can him for making me (if I were his editor) look stupid. Since when has ethics ever proposed that the easy way out was the ethical way?

      For consideration of anyone who wouldn’t report this to authorities, especially the poster who used the phrase “if the boss was in the pictures” as some differential guiding principle: As a parent, if you would even hesitate to report it, you’re in need of a self-check. Every child is basically your kid with superficial differences. I would spend less than a second thinking at all, because I would hope if my kid were ever lured into such a state, someone would stand for them. My job be damned at that point; I’d rather work for someone with principles anyhow.

      As well, if you start to differentiate the viewer from the producer with these sorts of images, you miss the market value issue entirely. While I have no direct experience with child porn in any way thankfully, I am aware that folks exchange these things often for a fee. That means the viewer might have paid for the abuse to happen, and if that is the case, then a secondary crime is evident even to a casual observer.

      On a more technical point though, the best advice the ethicial monkey could have given the technician was to isolate the machine, involve company staff, and observe to them they should call authorities. Then, simply protect that machine from interference. If the boss is guilty, let the authorities decide; if it is some other issue, let that be decided by them too. A technicians job is not to judge the law, or the guilt of an individual, but to protect the company. How can a company network be safe if this kind of material made its way inside? If a zombie, then there is a security issue; if an individual browsing risk-enhancing sites, you’re still protecting the company by removing them. No matter how you look at it, the company is potentially at risk by the behaviour. Silence protects no one who deserves consideration.

      Alas, this is all conjecture, and I do sincerely hope the the ethicist was somehow making a joke, albeit one I can’t understand.

    • #3274188

      not an it guy

      by awhite ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      I take care of our company computers in a small feed company. We have some policies about porn and such but several of us pass around emails containing porn or nudity, but we never abuse such things and if I found out one of the people where looking at child porn first and for most I would call the law and then confront the person face to face. Jobs are a dime a dozen when compared to integrity and honor. Lose my job who cares do you really want to work around someone that does such a thing I dont, WONT. Myself I would not get fired for turning someone in but would get fired for kicking the shit out of them. Where I am from it is a $150 simple assault charge, and that would be well worth it. I am sure some of the other people here would chip in on it if they knew why it happened. Here is some advice from a nobody call the FBI someone if any one elese in the company complains then they are guilty by association. Now ask your self this question do you want to be one of those people. Not me.
      As for framing someone Id like someone to try it on me as I keep a very close eye on my computer and know things that most techs dont know about their own computers. A friend told me once if you are not paranoid then you are not paying close enough attention and I live by those words, because someone is always out to get someone else I prefer not to play that type of game but can and will and usually come out ok.

      • #2929771

        You’re part of the problem

        by bamyclouse ·

        In reply to not an it guy

        ANYONE who looks at adult porn is eventually going to look at child porn. It’s only a matter of time.

        Don’t you have any more self respect than that?

        And will someone PLEASE explain how this is called “adult” entertainment when the people who use it are so childishly stupid?

    • #3273901

      I can’t believe this is even a discussion…

      by girlgeek12 ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      It’s illegal, it’s wrong, regardless of your religion.

      If you have a high moral standard, you would stick your neck out for something that you believe to be wrong. I have a hard time with society these days for really just turning their heads to things that they know are wrong. We need to protect the innocence of children.

      I am deeply saddened and offended by anyone that would say that ethics do not come from the Bible. The Bible is the foundation of how a Christian should live their life. The Ten commandments are the very building block of ethical and moral standards. These ten statements show how a Christian should live their lives. That is the code of conduct. Whether you chose to live your life in that way or not is your choice.

      For once in your life, stand up for something you believe in, something you know can make a difference. This would be one less guy exploiting these children. Somehow, someway, when you live your life with standards, things always work out. He can also lay his head down at night and know that he did the right thing. If he does believe in God, God always helps you out when you are in need so I have faith that he will find another job.

      …at least he can live life with a clean conscious.

      • #3273897

        GirlGeek, No one is saying

        by tig2 ·

        In reply to I can’t believe this is even a discussion…

        That there are not ethics taught in the Bible. Only that non-Christians have ethics too- obviously not necessarily from the Bible.

        We had a poster suggest that we not blame (throw stones) as we are all guilty of sin. As a Christian woman, I am offended by this viewpoint. In order to preserve the law, we must step away from the Christian ethic and towards the societal ethic that tells us that pornography involving children is wrong and potentially damaging to our society overall.

        (NOT potentially but in fact damaging… but I am trying to be “correct” here)

        Me personally? I would really just rather rip the “boys” off the scumbag with my bare hands and feed them to the filthy bastard that thinks that exploiting children is a good thing. The job isn’t even a part of that consideration. Fired? Not before I can quit, thanks.

        Realistically? Next stop would be HR. If nothing is done, the next one is the TV news. Job be d@mned, these are lives at stake and I cannot bear the thought that I could be instrumental in allowing this kind of damage to be done or continue.

        It has been opined that this is not a real case. Perhaps not. What this discussion has done is provide a ground where we can discuss the situation. And perhaps be ready for it should it occur.

      • #3225532

        Ethics do not come from the bible?

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to I can’t believe this is even a discussion…

        Depends on where you put the emphasis.

        To say the bible is without ethical content would be stupid.

        To make the claim that ethics feature nowhere else but the bible, dumb.

        To make the claim that the bible invented the concept of ethics, would indicate a frightening level of ignorance.

        I’m not even sure you could make the claim the bible was progenitor of the christian ethic, certainly the guys who wrote it would have some big time problems with large sections of current christian society.

        Me of course they’d burn at the stake.

        • #3225398

          That wasn’t until later, Tony

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Ethics do not come from the bible?

          After the King of England received his position from God himself. It the “good ol’ days” they would have just stoned you. Very comforting, I am sure?

        • #3289811

          Did you say a stoning????

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to That wasn’t until later, Tony

          I’m There, please tell me where and when!

          JK.

          In the Bible writing days, many religions had parts of their text re-written to appease the current King/Lord. From what I understand, most have also been re-translated several times as well, and that the translations made them a little different for different languages/versions.

        • #3289549

          If you want to see me stoned

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Did you say a stoning????

          bring the stuff, I’ll dig my pipe out 😀

        • #3289526

          Sorry, I am stone free

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to If you want to see me stoned

          now, but I dont mind being around stoned people, cause they are funny!. So I will watch, but not bring anything (or toke).

        • #3289490

          stoned free?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Sorry, I am stone free

          oh, your a moocher! Hope you at least bring some doritos! B-)

        • #2502336

          Ive got no problem with Doritos,

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to Sorry, I am stone free

          Cheetos, or beer.

          But I will still laugh at your stonedness… while you laugh at everything (including my drunkness).

        • #2929770

          The Bible is an account of God’s dealings with humans

          by bamyclouse ·

          In reply to Ethics do not come from the bible?

          As such, it is a progression. Time before Moses: no specific law. Moses’ time: Mosaic law/10 commandments. Time to New Testament: Even with the law there were problems with the relationship. People got very legal or very ILLEGAL. New Testament: God introduces a different way to relate to humans, known eventually as Christianity.

          No one gets that it is trying to show that law or no law, without the heart being changed to want God’s will more than its own, there can’t be a relationship with God. The changed heart comes through understanding the purpose of the events detailed in the Gospels and expounded on in Acts. That comes when earnest desire for a closer relationship with God meets God’s Holy Spirit and the heart is given a choice to accept what Jesus did for us on the cross and afterwards, or reject it as nonsense.

          The Bible says all people are born with a knowledge of God, so that explains how other non-Christian people have ethics; that is in our DNA as humans. But to the Christian, you cannot reach your full potential without Jesus.

          You can choose whatever you want to believe, and I won’t argue with you. I may clarify or explain, but only God can reach your heart. That’s why I pray as I put this out that God’s Spirit will reach some of you who read this and lead you to a thirst for the Lord and a true relationship with Him.

          At that point, there is no way you could NOT turn in a pornographer to legal authorities, especially a child pornographer or someone engaged in human trafficking. There may be no argument in the hearts and minds of many here who don’t share my beliefs; but it’s a lot clearer why you do it when you believe.

        • #2915595

          Wrong boy for this crap

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to The Bible is an account of God’s dealings with humans

          I would turn anyone with child pornography in, mainly to avoid being prosecuted for ripping their spine out.

          However it might be wise to remember that the bible actively promoted the sex with girls that most societies now would consider underage. Lot for instance gave his daughters to the mob outside his house while he was getting his instructions on how to leave his entire community to die.

          It might be wise to remember that law has existed since Ug found a big stick.

          It might be wise to remember that law is a tool of oppression for the powerful.

          It might be wise to remember that bastion of the faith the catholic church has been hiding paedopilia and pederasty among it’s representatives for millenia and their ethics and morality are sourced from the same document.

          It might be wise to realise pornography has existed since son of Ug drew a pair of tits on his dad’s wall.

          Last but not least it might be wise for you not to even attempt at instructing someone who thinks with his brain instead of simply regurgitating the outdated maunderings of a bunch of power seeking, self serving mysogynistic, ignorant turds.

          OK !

          PS I hope my post offended you as much as yours did me.

      • #3289812

        While I agree with some of the post

        by w2ktechman ·

        In reply to I can’t believe this is even a discussion…

        I will disagree completely that ethics came from the Bible. Ethics were around a lot longer than the Bible. Although, the Bible and fear of GOD has helped spread ethics, it was not the beginning of it.

        I hope that you dont honestly believe that there were no ethics whatsoever before the bible.
        I cannot say where they started, or even if some very ancient religion was partially responsible in some way (fire god, sun god, volcano god, etc.). But it seems that ethics are a big part of every religion, many of them are older than the Bible. And to have Ethics followed, they would have had to exist first, before they could be written and expanded upon.

        • #3289778

          I guess I didn’t specify

          by girlgeek12 ·

          In reply to While I agree with some of the post

          As a christian this is where you learn of ethics, not to say that some of the same ethics were there before the Bible or because some other religion has spread them. Just that if you are Christian, that is where you turn to.

        • #3289727

          I can live with that, course now there’s which ethic

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to I guess I didn’t specify

          you want to apply, seeing as you aren’t going to turn the other cheek in this case.

          How about an eye for an eye and impalement?

        • #2929768

          You’re missing the point

          by bamyclouse ·

          In reply to I can live with that, course now there’s which ethic

          Jesus never said that those who do wrong should not be turned over to the authorities; the Bible teaches in the New Testament that you respect the law of the land and pray for those in authority (not specifying that they have to be believers before you pray for them; just says to pray for them).

          Jesus was interested in the individual’s response to God. Once that’s entrenched, the rest – obedience to the law, abstinence from wrongdoing, all of that becomes natural.

          The instances where Jesus extended forgiveness to an individual, since He could see their heart, He knew they were ready to accept His truth. The woman caught in adultery, the thief at the cross – one still had a bad reputation to deal with plus whatever physical consequences there were (STDs?). The thief still died. But they would both end up in Heaven with Him, one sooner than the other. He dealt with individuals, knowing if a person’s heart isn’t changed, neither is their basic behavior.

          Yes, we’d almost all like to take people who harm innocent children and take vengeance on them. We’re all saying, “God, please let me hit that person a few times, really hard?” And God is saying NO to our request.

          To be tacky, the child has already turned enough cheeks. Time for someone to stop the perpetrator.

          Old interview in the 90s, I believe, with one of the media evangelists, a child molester turned believer still had those impulses; he and others like him wish to die before hurting a child themselves, and still fight that compulsion. If THEY struggle, considering God is their Helper, you KNOW others can’t be cured.

        • #2915593

          What Jesus was interested in

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to You’re missing the point

          is irrelevant.

          What the people who said what jesus was interested in is irrelevant.

          What the people who wrote down what the people said what Jesus said he was interested in is irrelevant.

          What the people who translated what the people who wrote down what the people said what Jesus said he was interested in is irrelevant.

          What the people who intepreted what the people who translated what the people who wrote down what the people said what Jesus said he was interested in is irrelevant.

          What YOU interpret what the people who intepreted what the people who translated what the people who wrote down what the people said what Jesus said he was interested in is irrelevant.

          There is only one issue here do you want to screw a pre-pubescent child.

          Yes or no

          To me it’s not an ethical question, that’s would you shag you mate’s mates mum, or like to see your 18 year old sister naked.

          Ie will social considerations override basic biological ones. Anyone who wants to shag a girl before she’s mature (lets face it age of consent is a social restriction) then you are fucked up and should be removed from the gene pool immediately.

          It’s the only way to be sure.

        • #3289619

          Much better

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to I guess I didn’t specify

          Yes, religions do teach ethics. And I agree, in this day and afe, ethics are mostly tought through religion, and at home.
          Thank You for the clarification.

    • #3225348

      Just delete them

      by nicolaides.nikos ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Well if you must do something,go ahead and delete the folder of the child porn. I dont think that anyone would dare to ask you “Dude, where is my child porn?” So, the boss would be scared and would be more careful in the future

      • #3289819

        That is stupid

        by w2ktechman ·

        In reply to Just delete them

        I can see doing that for some things, and I am not going into the wrongness of your post. Obviously, you are either trying to get a lot of responses, or you should be one of the jailed.

      • #3289722

        No he’s going to ask you what you are still doing there

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to Just delete them

        Seeing as you’ve just deleted the evidence without reporting it, you’re buggered.

        Probably a few kids will continue to be, so said person can get hold of some more material.

        You know people keep telling you to think before you speak, they meant think before you communicate.

      • #2929765

        That won’t work

        by bamyclouse ·

        In reply to Just delete them

        It’s an addiction. Take away the drugs from an addict, they will still get more somehow regardless of danger unless the heart is changed. Delete the images, they will put more on there. They can’t stop it. Eventually they will be caught and someone will notice at one point those images were deleted. Eventually, the person who deletes them will be implicated, if not all the IT staff who does the same job, because they will not be able to tell who did it for sure, so you will be taking innocent people along with you.

    • #3289500

      NY Times

      by jdbwar07 ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Since this recommendation was made by someone who happens to work for the NY Times, I bet it’s only a matter of time before a Fox news pundit like O’Reilly starts saying that an “evil, liberal” newspaper wants people to look at this type of porn!

    • #3289497

      Randy Cohen is a coward who advocates cowardice.

      by wrzfamily ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      I asked talk radio host Dori Monson to help me kick Cohen’s ass. Cohen refused Monson’s invitation to defend himself on his show. Cohen told Monson he’d talk about anything but child porn. Are we surprised that a coward would advocate cowardice? what devastates me is that Cohen literally advised “silence”; that silence surrounding child abuse/pornography is exactly what child advocates have been working to break all these years. If anyone wants to see the column, my rant to Cohen and his pathetic reply to me, just ask.
      Laura Wrzeski
      wrzfamily@centurytel.net

      • #2502491

        Link

        by jdbwar07 ·

        In reply to Randy Cohen is a coward who advocates cowardice.

        Could you post the link to it, or paste the text here if it’s not too long?

        • #2502280

          Cohen’s column, my rant, his cowardly, pathetic reply

          by wrzfamily ·

          In reply to Link

          Below are column, rant, & pathetic response from Cohen:

          Q: I am an Internet technician. While installing software on my company’s computer network, I happened on a lot of pornographic pictures in the president’s personal directory, including some of young children ? clearly less than 18, possibly early teens. It is probably illegal and is absolutely immoral. Must I call the police? I think so, but I need my job.
          S.M.N., Vancouver, British Columbia
          A: It is a crime to possess child pornography, and understandably: The sexual exploitation of children is reprehensible. Yet you have no legal obligation to contact the police, nor should you. The situation is too fraught with uncertainty. These photographs might depict ? legally ? not children but young-looking adults. The images could be digitally altered. Your boss may have acquired free (albeit illegal) images rather than bought them and provided a financial incentive to those who harm children. Someone other than your boss may have downloaded the pictures.
          In any case, while protecting your job should not forestall your calling the police, the consequences of doing so should. Even if your boss were acquitted of criminal charges, the accusation itself imperils his job, his reputation and the company. If convicted, he faces years in prison. (Arizona recently sentenced a man to 200 years on similar grounds.) Since you have no reason to believe your boss has had improper contact with children, you should not subject him to such ferocious repercussions for looking at forbidden pictures.Douglas A. Berman, a law professor at Ohio State University and an expert on sentencing, describes the rationale for these laws: “We punish the kind of possession many concede is not inherently harmful but which contributes to behavior which produces much harm.” That is, by stopping buyers, even those who have had no contact with an actual child, we hope to stop sellers, who do exploit children. Is this effective? Tough to prove. Berman observes that: “The criminalization of child porn consumption is premised on contestable utilitarian calculations.” Why not target child-porn producers directly, much as we differentiate drug dealers from drug users? We try, Berman explains, but it’s not easy: “A lot of these Web sites are offshore. And the domestic ones are good at covering their tracks.” But if the intent of the law is estimable, its effect in this case would be too destructive to your boss and too ineffectual in protecting children for you to abet.You do have duties to your employer. Because this material is on its computer, the firm risks prosecution. But short of calling the cops, your options are few. Nor would deleting the pictures eliminate all legal risk; that could be seen as destroying evidence. Your best recourse? Alas, silence.
          Readers can direct their questions and comments by e-mail to ethicist@nytimes.com This column originates in The New York Times Magazine.

          Below is my first response:

          Randy Cohen:
          Your Dec. 3ird column was horribly disappointing. All the people I?ve asked about what they thought of it could hardly believe that you wrote it. The writer was not asking for any of the legal advice, but guidance on what would be a moral decision. Legal or not, those images were created for the gratification of pedophiles. Only a trained investigator could make a judgment of legality. You are not a lawyer. You are also absolutely unqualified to judge whether or not unknown consequences to the boss justify protecting him from an investigation that may well be protective of his business. The boss and law enforcement (we the people) have a 100% right to a full investigation. Additionally, neither you nor the writer knows whether or not the images may be vital to an ongoing investigation. In spite of your unconvincing acknowledgments regarding the unforgivable crimes of child abuse, it was clear you favored covering for a perpetrator, whomever he happened to be or do, over the rights of children not to be violated and exploited. It was ridiculous to propose the fact (?) that the writer did not himself know whether or not his boss or anyone else had abused a child as an excuse for ?silence?. The writer cannot be expected to personally investigate such a possibility. Legal or not, we are all morally obligated to report child pornography, whether you disagree with the laws and consequences of downloading child pornography or not. If the writer indeed uncovered the boss’s ugly little secret, and then got canned for it, there are very good legal remedies to protect and compensate the writer from the vengeance of whomever the pedophile is. Mr. Cohen, you?re a dad. You should be passionately advocating any and all methods used to identify and persecute pedophiles, even the ones who ?only? view child pornography.

          Below is Cohen?s response to my letter:

          Thanks for the interesting note. Of course the sexual exploitation of children is vile; I wrote as much in my first sentence. The more difficult question is how to respond to those who do not produce but consume it. I believe that child porn producers should be vigorously prosecuted but that its consumers should receive a more therapeutic response. Sadly, that is not the case. Reporting this in-house amounts to passing the buck, letting someone else send the boss to prison for looking at an illegal picture. However, in S.M.N’s particular case, this is a very small company owned by the person who seems to have the child porn, so that limits the options S.M.N. has and obviates those measures you suggest. But even if this were a larger company and there were higher-ups to whom he could report it, he should still be reluctant to do so because the consequences to the boss and his family are, as I wrote, likely to be wildly disproportional to any actual harm he?d done and would have a vanishingly small chance of protecting any child. If you can think of another action S.M.N. could take that might do some genuine good, I’d be happy to hear about it. But to me, the unwise laws concerning child porn consumers foreclose any action on his part. It is demoralizing to do nothing in such a situation but worse still to do harm.
          RC

        • #2502243

          Agreed

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Cohen’s column, my rant, his cowardly, pathetic reply

          A whole catalogue of self serving assumptions to justify a graceless lack of spine.

          It’s an easy question to decide, all you have to ask yourself, is if it was my kid in the pictures what would I want someone who discovered them to do.

          The guy worries me, and now I’m worried for his kids as well, in my opinion he’s not fit to be responsible for them.

    • #2502471

      Swaparoni

      by fullseptic ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Make the bosses computer part of the next presentation and be sure everyone knows its the boss’ computer, then feign “oops…” in a power point presentation in front of the company.

      • #2929761

        And let OTHER people see this trash?

        by bamyclouse ·

        In reply to Swaparoni

        PLEASE! You have to be joking…

    • #2927647

      What a totally ironic request.

      by doug ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Here’s an IT guy who relieves the boredom of
      software installations by hacking into his
      bosses computer. Like most IT techs, he
      probably has specialized software that
      searches the computer for image files, then
      loads them into grids where they can be
      sorted in various ways so that the “good
      stuff” can be found.

      Let’s face it people, the boss didn’t have a
      directory off of “program files”
      called “child porn” that this tech
      accidently got into while modifying
      configuration files.

      While most techs do this, obviously using
      your access to the administration password
      to invade a superiors privacy it pretty much
      the ultimate violation of IT professional
      ethics. This tech was trusted with the admin
      password because he is an IT professional,
      and he violated this trust.

      Hence the irony. A man without ethics is
      requesting the ethical response to finding
      pictures of young teens on his bosses
      computer.

      • #2930740

        Without ethics ?

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to What a totally ironic request.

        So nosing about on your boss’ PC, means no ethics, being discovered with dubious pornography on your PC by an unethical person means you are not unethical?

        Specialised software search *.jpg huh?

        Not being funny, but there are lots of reasons why a tech might bump into misuse while doing his job. For instance we all know, hitting the clear cache and delete cookies button in IE isn’t guranteed to do what it says on the tin.

        The guy is doing a bit of housekeeping, preventative maintenance etc, and he can read….

        • #2929880

          That’s a pretty flimsy excuse for going thru someones browser history

          by doug ·

          In reply to Without ethics ?

          No offense, but that seems like a pretty
          flimsy excuse for going thru someone’s
          browser history.

        • #2929848

          It would be if that’s what ‘you’ were doing but

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to That’s a pretty flimsy excuse for going thru someones browser history

          If all you did was look at text on the screen.

          I mean we are blokes and some words sort of catch our attention.

          I struggling to get where you are coming from, if I ignored a low level employees ‘erm poor browsing discipline, or went to great lengths (turn my back on the screen and use a mirror ?) , you’d wonder what the heck I was playing at. Because it could be you being checked on, all of a sudden it’s an ethical privacy dilemna.

          I’ve worked somewhere like that, as a tech, I wasn’t allowed internet access, because I was too far down the food chain. So when I needed to to do something work related I had to borrow a bosses PC and have my browsing supervised. Of course the video of a bloke crapping in some drugged bint’s mouth he showed me, proved the point completely!

          One rule for me, one for them, and absolutely none for you.

          Yeah right….

        • #2929759

          IT routinely goes through the computer files of the minions

          by bamyclouse ·

          In reply to That’s a pretty flimsy excuse for going thru someones browser history

          So why not the boss, Mr. Nixon’s Defender? The boss is above the law?

          We all know that the company has the right to have IT techs monitor incoming and outgoing traffic, check browser caches, etc., on anyone in the company to make sure company resources are not used for personal gain, personal pleasure, non-business use, etc. So what makes the boss exempt?

          Perhaps YOU are a supervisor with something to hide on your computer at work? Kiddie porn, perhaps? Is that why you’re so offended that the IT tech is doing his or her job?

    • #2927642

      Porn on boss’ computer

      by dearmoree ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      As a tech at a large community college I have had several instances where while running disk clean up or just deleting temp Inet files the subject lines provided indications of porn on the computer. Part of my job description is to ensure compliance with the colleges acceptable use policy which does not include porn. If I fail to take the appropriate action my job and credibility are put on the line. If some one wants to view this type of material they should use their own computer. I have and will continue to report any violators I discover, and based on prior experience if I believe it to be kiddie porn will notify the police and not hr.

      • #2931502

        That’s a somewhat different situation.

        by doug ·

        In reply to Porn on boss’ computer

        Well, it’s a somewhat different situation
        when the organization you work for requires
        you to closely examine image files and user
        documents on the computers owned by the
        organization to ensure compliance with
        organizational regulations.

    • #2927641

      Porn

      by ysue ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      There’s illegal porn that sends you to jail and then there’s regular, everyday porn that would get a low-level person fired but not prosecuted.

      Randy Cohen is wrong. If the boss has child porn on his computer, by not acting, you are enabling.

      The other kind? Depends on your own moral code. I wouldn’t say anything.

      • #2931507

        Yes, it’s our duty!

        by doug ·

        In reply to Porn

        I see your point. It’s our duty to go thru
        people’s computers, examine all the jpegs
        they might have, and examine the temp
        internet files to ensure the user’s moral
        integrity.

        • #2929756

          It’s the IT dept’s job to make sure the company is protected

          by bamyclouse ·

          In reply to Yes, it’s our duty!

          And one way is that the IT dept. can go through anyone’s cache/browser history it wants, do a spot check, check out someone if a higher level person requests it.

          If you are using company computers for personal use, it’s against the agreement you signed, which is legally binding. So therefore you do not have integrity, so it’s a moot point at that juncture.

          Company computers are checked to make sure, as much as possible, that only the business of the company is conducted on them and that the law is not being broken. Spot checks are generally run unless someone is suspected of doing wrong. If someone’s looking at a computer to see what’s wrong with it, and happens upon evidence of illegal activity, especially THIS type, then they are legally and morally obligated to report it.

          No, it doesn’t ensure the user’s moral integrity. It just ensures the company addresses illegal activity or deals with people who are misusing company resources. The policies for this exist for a reason: people do things that are illegal and expose the company to unnecessary risk.

    • #2927618

      Porn on boss’ computer

      by karend ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Silence is golden.

      • #2930739

        Some one have alook on this person’s pc

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to Porn on boss’ computer

        Obviously something to hide.

      • #2929755

        Duct tape is silver

        by bamyclouse ·

        In reply to Porn on boss’ computer

        And prison bars are black.

        Your point?

        • #2915494

          Let me guess

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Duct tape is silver

          you found out both of those things at the same time when you met your cell mate?

        • #2928667

          Nope

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Let me guess

          That’s where he learned about hamsters and toilet rolls.

        • #2928669

          I’d rather hear your point

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Duct tape is silver

          First of all, not all duct tape is silver, in fact black, red, green and brown are very common, especially in the more expensive, clothy duct tapes (also called gaffers tape as it is used for stage matting).

          But the thing that I don’t get is that prison bars are black, I don’t think I ‘ve ever seen black prison bars.

          Your point?

        • #2789879
          Avatar photo

          And Gaffers Tape AKA as 200 MPH Tape

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to I’d rather hear your point

          is quite often made for race teams in Team Colors so that when they tape up a car there is no noticeable different color on it.

          Holds very well in all weathers but is a sod to remove once you are back in the workshop.

          Col

    • #2927617

      Consider this…

      by williamvolterman ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      If it was your child/young teens picture would you act differently?

      If you would your a scumbag… and even if it was your kids pics… you did nothing either way (your even more of a scumbag)

      Hippocrites.

      • #2931495

        Do you have pictures of your child/young teen on your PC?

        by doug ·

        In reply to Consider this…

        Well, think about this. Do you have pictures
        of your daughter/young teen on your
        computer?

        Would you be fine with this technician
        looking at a jpeg of your daughter
        called “YoungSusieAtBeach”, because the tech
        thought it might be child porn?

        • #2929577

          If you were looking at real child porn

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Do you have pictures of your child/young teen on your PC?

          you wouldn’t be confusing it with beach snaps. If someone chose to deliberatley confuse it, and reported it as such, that would indeed be a problem.
          If you weren’t sure and based on fear of consquences to your self, or even the ‘boss’ did not report it and then found out he started bonking three years olds, after you gave him the green light. How would you feel then?

          None of the descisions are without consequences, all of them are decisions, choose and live with them.

        • #2929875

          Well, that wasn’t quite my point.

          by doug ·

          In reply to If you were looking at real child porn

          Well, that wasn’t quite my point, even tho
          a woman was arrested not too long ago when
          she tried to get pictures of her very young
          daughters taking a bath developed.

          My point was that if the tech in the
          article was opening up jpegs with
          suspicious names, he’s likely opening up
          family and personal pictures by mistake.

          Is everyone comfortable with the idea of a
          computer tech looking thru pictures of
          their daughters?

        • #2929846

          If it was on my personal PC

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Well, that wasn’t quite my point.

          and I hadn’t give him permission to access it, I’d tear his spine out. If he was accessing it, and it wasn’t related to the fault, I’d tear his spine out.

          On my works PC, I have no privacy from the company. I have pictures of my grand children on my works PC, which I use as my desktop. If the company said clear them off our kit. I have no basis whatsoever to claim that they are personal or private, on my desktop or not. It’s their kit, not mine.
          It’s called a personal computer because we personally use it. It wasn’t a present to do with as we will.

          Now claiming that some files should be secured from other employees, is a completely different matter, and absolutely nothing to do with privacy as such. A private file is one only you are authorised to access.

        • #2929754

          print them out at home and use them as decoration

          by bamyclouse ·

          In reply to Do you have pictures of your child/young teen on your PC?

          They don’t belong on the company computer, really. But if someone reports you for child porn, they investigate, you’re found innocent.

          And kids are by definition young, so who’d put a title like that on a picture?

        • #2915561

          Sanctimonious prick

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to print them out at home and use them as decoration

          Do you really see a sexualized object everytime you see a picture of a kid?

          You have very serious issues.

        • #2915511

          bloody looney

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Sanctimonious prick

          nt

        • #2915490

          It is scary

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to bloody looney

          The ONLY way you look at that baby pic and thing “kiddy porn” is if you DO see that child as a sexual object.

          This guy is in deep denial and needs to get help, fast. Hope he isn’t a trusted uncle…

    • #2927612

      What to do if you find Porn on boss’ computer

      by jmccardl29 ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      In view of how little support “whistle blowers” get I would do nothing. What is going to be achieved? Yes it is very wrong, but you will get beheaded, and the upper management level will close rank and kapow you are stuffed forever. Ask any whistle blower if they would do it again.

      You would get fired for “snooping on his computer”. Management would say you have breached privacy laws, citing that you may have been looking for salary or personal data etc.
      Never EVER EVER rock the ship. In an ideal world maybe, but NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES
      in the real world.
      I know it sucks but this is the course of action I would take.
      I am a comp Tech and I think I have seen mostly more hard core porn on accountants and lawyers computers, they seem to love porn, they feed on it!
      Lawyers become judges who then love porn so whatever you do you will lose badly, you will never win.
      Also remember you do not really know who is sleeping with whom in a company, just guard your back!

      • #2930868

        If you turn your back to child porn

        by rcfoulk9 ·

        In reply to What to do if you find Porn on boss’ computer

        yours is a life without principle. You ultimately stand for nothing if doing so puts you at any risk. While taking on risk for risks sake is foolish a real, mature person must stand for something other than simply self preservation. You, sir, are a very week person. Grow a spine.

      • #2930732

        Actually you are another CTO/CIO

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to What to do if you find Porn on boss’ computer

        and you are recomending that if any of your guys find anything on your company pc that would violate the policies you no doubt religiously enforce on them, they should keep quiet….

        Check this guy out as well.

      • #2929753

        Which has this effect:

        by bamyclouse ·

        In reply to What to do if you find Porn on boss’ computer

        Perpetuates the problem.

      • #2790725

        What would I do!

        by jmccardl29 ·

        In reply to What to do if you find Porn on boss’ computer

        In my last post I stated I would do nothing.
        Years ago I had a rental property and I observed many cigarette burns on a five year old child’s arm. I asked her how did the burns occur. She told me that “Mummies man friend did it”. I was appalled and reported it to the Victorian Police “Community Policing Squad” and was assured that my report would be in strict confidence. Imagine my shock and horror when the girl’s mum and her friend went off their face at me telling me that the Seargent had told them that the landlord had made a complaint. These people were members of a bikie gang and realy mean critters. They threatened me with severe physical violence. Assuming I could have called the cops (mobile phones were not around then) there would have been at least 10 minutes before I would have received any help. I could easily have been dead by then.
        Maybe only in Australia the whistleblower gets a raw deal (I do not think the raw deal occurs only in Australia).
        Anyone who has seen “Underbelly” (which is a pretty true factual tv film about the Melbourne underworld killings of 20 or more criminals) soon convinces anyone about being too heroic. Some of these crims loved killing for the sake of killing. (This film is so accurate that in Victoria it has a court order preventing it being Telecast until several criminal trials are conducted including a Tony Mokbel and others)
        If you spill the beans your name will make its way into the public domain.
        In Victoria we have an assistant Police Commisioner facing trial for “leaking information to inappropriate people.”
        Your name will allways be available from court records.
        I have asked a copper and my solicitor what they thought and was advised to forget it, it would bring more heartache for me than the villain.
        It really sounds nice to be so self rightous and do the correct thing. It would be great if the baddies got smacked and the goodies got given the chocolates. Maybe in our next life!!!!

    • #2927595

      I have been here

      by sjford ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      I would like to reply to this article. I have experienced a similar situation first hand in a family-owned brokerage house in NYC. I was a contractor helping out with a network connectivity issue. We discovered that the three company owned firewalls were
      saturated with traffic. Not knowing what happened, logs were review and we found a constant flow of traffic to XXX sites. When I asked my immediate manager about this situation it was brushed off as these are brokers who are bringing in $500,000 a month to the company. No one was think about the possibility of a lawsuit or aby reaction to someone seeing this on a PC screen.

      A second occurance occurred at a famous NYC hospital. I was called in to a printer problem at 3am and when I arrived I went with a manager to a location inside the hospital to find a printer tied up printing a stack fo porno pictures. Since this was a academic environment , no action was taken…

      Others places it was an instant firing…

    • #2927588

      are you a Sith, or a Jedi?

      by pgit ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Are you a Sith, or a Jedi?

      If you are a Sith, your ship has just come in. Go to the boss and explain to him you have already imaged the drive and deposited copies with several third parties who will release the info should anything bad happen to you. Then you lighten up, let him/her off the hook because all you’re after is a more cushy job and a little bit more money… in a word, blackmail. It’s the prime lubricant of politics and business.

      If you’re a jedi, it’s a heck of mess you’re in. Depending on how “big” this boss is, you may end up being charged yourself, for maybe trying to set up the Sith scenario above.

      I can tell you most of my small town ‘movers and shakers’ would circle the wagons in support of most of their big wig brethren, even if they got caught being the subject of the images themselves.

      In light of how business “ethics” operate, (Siths) I would anonymously tip off the Sheriff’s office and be done with it.

      If the individual is on the outs with the local powers that be, you’ll see the orange jump suit slow-mo perp walk on the nightly news. If he/she is one of the local darlings, or a rising star, your best hope would be that the offensive material quietly goes away.

      Ultimately, my conscience would bear the brunt of such a disturbing discovery, I doubt I’d ever recover. My bottom line would be to walk away from the job, if nothing were done about it. At that point I might contact someone like the FBI, but in another city where local politics weren’t going to be a factor.

    • #2927560

      I had this happen once

      by ganyssa ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      not my boss, but management. I was not snooping, I was running a virus scan, as the PC had given warnings, and I was searching for anything further. As it ran, the names of the files it was running were passing across the screen. The file names made it obvious that they were not something you’d want on a corporate PC.

      I verified the files matched the names, then went to my boss with the information. I was asked to explain how I’d come across the information, and also my boss tip-toed around the question of whether or not the women in the photos appeared to be underage. As they did not, the PC was reimaged, and the person in question was re-informed of company policy.

      But had I not had a business reason for searching his PC, I would have been disciplined as well. Or not, as I would have never said anything, because I would have known better.

      *Edited to add – I would have said nothing in this situation, because this was adult pornography. Had it been child porn, I would have taken whatever career damage came of being unable to explain myself, had I not had a good reason to be looking on his hard drive.*

      • #2927541

        Do you tell or not? YES.

        by brian ·

        In reply to I had this happen once

        Are you the judge in the case or not? No.
        Are you the policeman? Yes.
        What references do the police use? The letter and the spirit of the law.

        We are in positions of Trust and Integrity. If this person weren’t your Boss, would you have reported it? The difference is merely your personal impact?

        If it is obvious to you that it is child porn, you NEED to tell, even if you lose your job over it. Personally, I’d sue the company and the employee for wrongful termination if that ever happened.

        What’s more important here? Your job, OR your self respect, honesty, and integrity? Even if it were the Depression, I’d still choose to report it. You have to do what is right, not just what is best for you.

        Even CRIMINALS see this crime as one of the most hideous of offenses. A number of these people who go to jail for sexual child abuse wind up with multiple visits to hospital and worse. Many offenders lie about the crime they are in for, as they don’t want to wind up dead.

        My exposure to the reality? Worked for a state agency who had to deal with the results of the crimes.

    • #2927536

      SImple

      by sforkner ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      You must self report the the authorities. If you fail to do this, someone else finding the data can make you liable.

      • #2930900

        Doing the right thing isn’t always easy

        by rcfoulk9 ·

        In reply to SImple

        But it will always be the right thing. If it’s porn involving adults, straight, gay or otherwise, I’m not about to pass judgment. I’m a management by objectives type so if the work’s getting done I’m not so much concerned about what interests someone. I would however let the person know that they might want to remember that porn on a work computer can present a sexual harrassment issue and in all likelihood it would be better to reserve such browsing to a home computer. Once so discussed the behavior tends to become self corrcting. Child porn is a totally other animal however. If it was clearly saved JPGs or videos rather than something dug up in the cache, which could be the result of an unexpected redirect, both the authorities and HR must be notified. There should be zero tolerance of this type of behavior.

        • #2930809

          Cohen’s Times “article”

          by farrell.lawrence16 ·

          In reply to Doing the right thing isn’t always easy

          As a budding ‘tech’ who is also a social worker and a psychologist (and the father of two boys), I am very pleased to see this conversation happening among my (soon-to-be-colleagues). The range of emotional responses to this issue are to be expected (full disclosure; I find child rape/porn reprehensible). I do believe that there should be a clearly spelled out policy at every workplace (corporate or not) that takes the moral dilemma out of the hands of the IT person and puts it where it belongs, with the management of the company involved. And yes, I have been ‘back-stabbed’ by HR and terminated for acting in what I thought was an ‘ethical’ manner.
          At any rate, I repeat my gratitude to those who submitted, especially those who seemed to be thoughtful and respectful of others. A lot of education clearly still needs to happen in this issue. Child predators need to be stopped, period.
          The range of opinions definitely was an eyeopener for this ‘newbie’.
          By the way, Randy Cohen should be fired.
          Thanks again.

    • #2930777

      Cover Your Ethics & Butt, Easily

      by jwildhair ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Make up a new email address & send the details regarding where to locate the alleged illicit files to whatever link in the chain of command you deem appropriate.

    • #2930762

      not reporting a suspected crime can be a criminal act

      by dmacleo ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      way too many posts to read through, but I did not see this mentioned anywhere.
      depending on where you live not reporting this to law enforcement would itself be a crime. contrary to what a lot of companies try to make people believe, their policies (made to protect the company) cannot replace state law.

    • #2930747

      Call the cops

      by public8 ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Call the cops

    • #2930736

      You need your freedom more than the job…

      by mikifinaz1 ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      If you are found to obstruct the authorities or aid some one in a crime (child pornograph is indeed a crime) you too can go to jail. Holding your silence not matter what the reason is considered obstructing.

    • #2930735

      Considerations

      by oz_media ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Some unaware viewer may think that this is child porn, not realizing that advertising ‘teen’ porn and making girls look as young as humanly possible is the number one goal of most porn photographers,

      Men WANT to veiw younger girls, not neccessarily kids but those BARELY LEGAL teens etc.

      I’ve seen a photo shoot where the site designer had hired a very young LOOKING girl (20 that looked 16) and made her up to look like a young teen; whether you or I agree or not, that’s what attracts viewers.

      So I would suggest that unless these people are OBVIOUSLY just children, which is pretty easy to determine, then the IT guy is probably just going to sink himself in the process.

      There is an entire industry dedicated to teen porn, or teen LOOKING porn anyway. the younger they look, the better, the less developed they are, the better etc. It is pretty easy to confuse a 20 year old, who has consented and been, paid with a 16 year old schoolgirl.

      NOTE: I am in now way advocating child pornography, and in no way do I condone allowing people to get away with it. I am just saying that the IT guy certainly sounds uneducated and unaware of the porn scene, and is likely to create more problems than he is willign to face on this one.

      Real child porn really is not that common, despite what many think, it is NOT plastered all over the internet as some people feel. People who run legitimate porn sites do not advocate it either, not only is it illegal but it is competition, they will throw the guy to the wolves right off.

      Consenting, paid adults who APPEAR like teens is a MASSIVE market though,

      • #2930722

        I hereby admit that I enjoy looking

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to Considerations

        at attractive young women.

        Terribly emabrassing I know, awful in fact, Exploitive yada-yada-yada

        I don’t do it on my works PC though, they’d fire me.

        Course I aren’t a CIO.

        As far as corporate kit goes, porn whatever your opinions about it, isn’t the real problem. The real problem is it’s a social attack vector for all sorts of internet nasties. Penalising your techs for pointing this out, is self defeating.

      • #2915700

        I hope your knowledge of IT

        by bamyclouse ·

        In reply to Considerations

        is half as good as your extensive knowledge about pornography.

        Makes me wonder what you REALLY do for a living…

        ALL porn is evil, adult porn is a gateway, the idea that if you have external genitals it is OK to want to view nude pictures of people who look like children is SICK SICK SICK.

        IF you want to look at women who look like children, then you want to look at children. It’s like saying there is a difference between “black magic” and “white magic” – it’s a continuum (and no, I won’t brook arguments on the magic issue because I was saved out of witchcraft and I am too intelligent to be fooled by that). I am also too intelligent to think that wanting to look at 20 year olds who look like they’re 13 is different from wanting to look at 13 year olds.

        You are a sick puppy.

        • #2915555

          OI !

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to I hope your knowledge of IT

          Nutter

        • #2915518

          Well aaaaaalrighty then!

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to I hope your knowledge of IT

          Evil spirits OUT!!!!
          PRAISED in the name of Jeeeeeezus!!
          Do I hear an amen?
          Hallelujah Brother!

          😀

          If you don’t like reality, you don’t have to face it. Fortunately, my rose coloured glasses are broken.

        • #2915488

          I wonder

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Well aaaaaalrighty then!

          if we can send him to some other country, because he sure is an embarrassment to have saying he is from the US….

          Talk about an ignorant twit.

          For how he is going on, ranting and raving, he HAS to be like the guy that farts on the elevator, and then tries to blame others for it.

          One sick puppy.

        • #2915512

          Saved

          by santeewelding ·

          In reply to I hope your knowledge of IT

          Out of manipulation by the one into manipulation by another, intelligence no more than that.

        • #2915477

          I couldn’t have said it better.

          by ontheropes ·

          In reply to Saved

          You’re quite right.

        • #2915500

          Location, location, location?

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to I hope your knowledge of IT

          [i]the idea that if you have external genitals it is OK to want to view nude pictures of people who look like children is SICK SICK SICK.[/i]

          What does location of genitalia have to do with liking pornography?

          clarify

        • #2915464

          What possible difference does genitalia location make?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Location, location, location?

          I was really under the impression you knew this.

          YANK or POKE, PULL or PUSH

          but I am sure he’s under the impression that males are solely responsible for child molestation.

        • #2915460

          :D Guess I’ll go back and clarify.

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to What possible difference does genitalia location make?

          Sheesh. Some people’s kids.

    • #2931298

      Was there a reasonable expectation of privacy?

      by marty r. milette ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      This is the question the courts will usually need to resolve to determine whether the evidence is admissible or not — and one the technician also needs to consider.

      In the case where a technician views the contents of a “personal directory” on the network, the person likely does have cause to dismiss the evidence.

      However, in the case where someone GIVES their computer to a technician for maintenance and allows them access to it, then that expection would likely be waived.

      Certainly, staying silent is NOT the correct answer (perhaps the safest, but hiding criminal acts is a criminal act itself).

      I would suggest the technician get a few minutes of free advice from a lawyer, and if necessary, have it moved through the corporation’s lawyer because they are the ones ultimately responsible for what is on their network.

      A risk here is a counter-suit for the technician viewing files in the ‘private’ directory. Company policies should cover this eventuality, but often don’t.

      • #2915699

        It’s not their personal computer

        by bamyclouse ·

        In reply to Was there a reasonable expectation of privacy?

        Therefore, how would there be an expectation of privacy for items on a work computer that is the property of the company?

        Privacy is a complete myth, really – privacy on a work computer/network is laughable at best.

        Keep your private files on your private computer if you don’t want them discovered.

        • #2928834

          Cases have been thrown out…

          by marty r. milette ·

          In reply to It’s not their personal computer

          Several cases where illegal materials were found on company computers have been thrown out because of this “expectation of privacy”.

          I don’t have the specific cases at hand, but if you search back through the records for the 9th Circuit Court you should find them.

          These days, with the US becoming a police state, there is no place to put anything. Even entering or leaving the country can result in your notebook computer, mobile phone and USB sticks being confiscated and searched at the leisure of the DHS.

          And by the way, no suspicion of guilt or ‘reasonable grounds’ for the search are necessary. Neither is a court order or any form of judicial oversight.

    • #2929736

      Anonymously notify the spouse…

      by glostah ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      If you have access to their cache, you have access to their contacts. Figure out a way to anonymously inform the spouse, especially if they have children of their own. Their children may not be in immediate danger, but the childrens’ friends are. A mother will deal with this far better than any of the upper managemnt or HR.

    • #2929675

      Your ethics

      by hsmithdp ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      It really comes down to doing the right thing. What are your ethics. Personally I would creat and iso of the bosses drive and confront my boss and let hime know about the items I discovered and offer to bring in a third party to audit the computer to determine the point of origin of the files.

      Keep in mind that if these files are actually child pornography you have a should be aware of your legal responsibilities to the company and legal system.

      If this is just porn then it would be up to company policy on how to handle this. If it is a corp then they should have acceptable use policies in effect.

      If this is a small company and your boss is the owner and these are his computers you should remind him of other legal ramifications that could occure if seen by others who might take offence to such material. But I would back up the evidence then start with asking the boss about it. Then you have something to CYOA.

      • #2929576

        So your recomendation is to take a copy of the

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to Your ethics

        material?. Not a good idea at all.

        Tech’s have real problem, in that they have the skills to attempt manufacturing the evidence. Don’t do nuffing, shout for witnesses, then call the police.

        Even then some lawyer type is going to try and introduce reasonable doubt, you could go in as Elliot Ness and come out looking like Gary Glitter.

        Don’t forget leaglly with that CD in your hand you have child pornography in your posession. Expect to be treated accordingly.

    • #2929898

      “Kiddie Porn”?

      by escher2 ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Look, if it’s underage porn, you have a legal obligation AND a moral one.

      But is it really kiddie porn?

      Or is it “Teen Porn”, which is actually just young looking 18-19 year old girls dressed/made-up to LOOK 14 or 15 years old?

      I ask this in such a blunt manner because in the ONE case we are dealing with someone who is doing something that is actually bad, not merely illegal.

      In the other case he is simply one more middle-aged guy; who is still hung up on the cheerleader he didn’t get to nail in the 10th grade.

      One scenario is WRONG and the other is SAD. And maybe a little funny.

      So be VERY sure of what you saw before you ruin someone’s entire life.

      • #2915698

        Any porn ruins someone’s life

        by bamyclouse ·

        In reply to “Kiddie Porn”?

        Directly or indirectly whether they believe it or not, porn ruins the life of the “model” and the viewer because it exposes the “model” to possibly more crime, the viewer to being a set of genitals attached to eyes and a hand.

        If you want to look at an adult who looks underaged then you want to look at an underage child.

        There is nothing funny about anything, nor sad, except the bankruptcy of morals that puts some artificial dividing line between the ages of the person performing the “modeling.”

        It also destroys normal sexuality – no wonder there are such huge sales of erectile dysfunction drugs out there. These males can’t perform unless they think they’re “doing” a child.

        • #2915696

          My,

          by santeewelding ·

          In reply to Any porn ruins someone’s life

          but you sound so close to the morality and the mechanics of the whole thing.

        • #2915591

          That’s a big broad brush you

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Any porn ruins someone’s life

          are using to tar people with before you feather them.

          You can be as sexually repressed as you desire and your partners will tolerate, some have different views.

          Pornography per se is not morally bankrupt, rather it has been forced out of society’s norms by a bunch of hypocrites.

          There are also sorts of lines everywhere. Where does Britney spears dressed as a school girl fit in, Madonna skipping about in a short skirt, a lingerie catalogue?

          Pornography is in the eye of the beholder, and I’m getting increasingly worried about what you are beholding.

        • #2915560

          Where do you get this crap from?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Any porn ruins someone’s life

          personal experience?

          You sure talk like you have a lot of first hand experience. Or is this just what you “feel” is your version of “the truth”?

        • #2915463

          Mans most famous book of crap

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Where do you get this crap from?

          The Holy Bible

          Too many rewrites, too many translations, good read but a terrible way to base your reason for existence.

          Have faith, have belief but treat the Good Book for exactly what it is…a good book.

        • #2928829

          Wrong

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Mans most famous book of crap

          The Bible is not the foundation for his twisted sexualization of children, nor his sick fascination with it.

          I wonder though, from some of the posts, if this isn’t a female instead of male? The “all porn is evil” sounds like some of the radical flannel wearers that no one would ever want to see naked in the first place……

        • #2928679

          Obviously just completely pathetic

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Wrong

          I mean, where do you even start with someone so completely full of complete garbage, misinformation, false facts etc. It would be like trying to untangle one of those spiderweb knots of wiring from behind a 15 year old entertainment system. Good luck!

          He is obviously throwing his choice of religion out as if it is the cure of all evil, and not simply a book of misguided delusions that see everything non-Christaian as being evil. But even then, there are many Christians who look at porn, yet I suppose they would not fit HIS description of being Christian.

          As for being a broad, well the evangelistic style fits more with a man, yet I agree that the ‘blind man’s view’ of pornography certainly does echo eating granola, crocheting skirts and making pottery, doesn’t it?

        • #2915509

          damn

          by 2wired ·

          In reply to Any porn ruins someone’s life

          1. “…exposes the “model” to possibly more crime” suggests that the making and distribution of said pornography is illegal to begin with, which, more than likely [ie:99% of all manufactured porn freely available], isnt illegal. its perfectly legal. perhaps not to have on your work laptop, but at home in the privacy of your own bedroom and significant other, perfectly fine.

          2. the suggestion that men with erectile disfunction suffer due to their over indulgence in pornography and lust for children is soooo off the wall, you really suggeset you have major issues yourself.
          not suggesting your sexually deviant or anything, just a closed minded idiot that spouts out whatever he/she is told….usually by a bible bashing sexual deviant in a dress….

        • #2915465

          Quick, save your neighbours, America!!!

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Any porn ruins someone’s life

          this guys job role is education, please lets hope we can find out who this guy is and warn those whom he may be attempting to educate. THAT’S SCARY!!!

    • #2929883

      This isn’t an issue for me, because I would never see the child porn

      by doug ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      I will never, ever, face this particular
      question for the simple reason that I don’t
      go around snooping on my user’s computers.
      I
      don’t look at their browser history, I
      don’t
      open Explorer and look at what’s in their
      documents directory. I don’t open up jpegs,
      no matter how provocative the jpeg name is.
      The only possible way I could discover
      child
      porn on a computer is if the user had made
      it his desktop.

      I find it highly interesting that everyone
      in this thread accepts the idea of an IT
      tech snooping around on his boss’s
      computer.
      The boss here certainly didn’t understand
      that his computer techs had access to his
      jpegs and his top secret company documents.

      We kind of live in two different worlds, us
      IT people and most other people. To us a
      computer is an open book, once we get the
      administrator password. Most other people
      see the login process they go thru as
      providing security for their personal
      stuff.
      How many CEO’s of major corporations really
      understand that the high school kid given
      the network administrator password so he
      can run backups can
      access his top-secret corporate documents?

      • #2929859

        Improperly implemented security…

        by marty r. milette ·

        In reply to This isn’t an issue for me, because I would never see the child porn

        If technicians can view user folders, then the system is configured incorrectly to begin with.

        This would fall under “best practices”.

        The normal scenario is when the files are on a notebook computer or personal PC that has gone in for servicing.

        There are many well-documented cases of “Rent a Geek”, “Geek Squad”, etc. going in and harvesting photos and whatever else they can find of interest.

        When you give your PC for servicing, you effectively give away your “expectation of privacy”.

        Also consider that if the computers, network, etc. belong to the company, they are responsible for what is being done with them — and have the right to monitor, inspect or secure however necessary — THEIR resources.

        There is also the “service provider exception”. Look it up.

      • #2929843

        He can’t or at least shouldn’t be able to access

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to This isn’t an issue for me, because I would never see the child porn

        top secret.
        He should be able to see that the file exists, date last changed , permissions etc. If he can see the contents of it, it’s hardly top secret is it?

        If it’s a company PC, you have no privacy from some officers of the company. How much security you get in terms of your work, depends on your position and their authority.

        If this isn’t true, your security is a bad joke.

      • #2915695

        Welcome to Nazi-ism

        by bamyclouse ·

        In reply to This isn’t an issue for me, because I would never see the child porn

        “I see NOTHING” – Hi. Col. Klink.

        Refusing to see or address evil does not make it go away. It allows it to prosper.

        Someone in the era surrounding WWII once said that evil prospers when good men do nothing. I don’t recall who said it, but it’s the truth.

        Do nothing, and kiddie porn flourishes.

        Anyone in the C level who does not understand that they are to set an example in their computer use by using it only for business and their personal computers for their prurient interests and personal files, is not worth the sometimes billions they get a year.

        Come to think of it, NONE of them are worth what they get so as far as I am concerned, look away and if you find stuff like this junk, expose them for the creeps they are.

        Maybe we should start with the judges so we actually have some protection for people who expose child pornographers?

        At the kiddie porn level there is no real difference between seller and consumer.

        • #2915557

          Lot’s of people have said that or a variation

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Welcome to Nazi-ism

          No one actually knows where it came, from though many believe, it was a paraphrase of an Edmund Burke essay in the 1770s

          It’s certainly true. Of coure first we have to agree on our definitions of good and evil….

    • #2929747

      There has been a lot of dickering in this thread…

      by boxfiddler ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      enough that a person can only read it in spurts if she wants to keep track of who is saying what and where it is going.

      There is really only one question. “Is my paycheck worth more to me than the lives of these children?”

      Put it any other way, the issue is framed in that gray that destroys.

      • #2915569
        Avatar photo

        Depends on the individual here Boxy

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to There has been a lot of dickering in this thread…

        And that is the main problem. Some can have a personal opinion that something is Porn which may not be correct. If you chose to believe that something you see is disgusting well it is to you but may be perfectly reasonable to another.

        The most disgusting thing that my mother claims to have seen was someone cleaning a rabbit or cooking a haggis. To her these images are disgusting to others that see it as a cooking video. 😉

        The worst case that I have ever seen was a Newsagent prosecuted for selling Pornography and not preventing children from seeing it. The Person who made the complaint and the Investigating Police went right over the top in that case because the newsagent in question was selling posters and one was of the Statue David, That was the Pornographic Image that the business was charged with selling and placing in an area where children could view it.

        Of course the Art Books in the Local Library or the School Library which had the same photo where perfectly acceptable for children to look at and there was nothing wrong with any image in these books. But because someone was selling a Poster this was considered as Pornography by a section of people who really should know better.

        Breaking people because they fail to comply with a single persons idea of what is right or acceptable is incorrect in my books at least.

        OH and the worst photos that I have ever seen where Medical Photos that where used in a Book on Child Medicine but provided that they where in that Book they could not be considered as Porn just Medical Pictures and you guessed it they where photos of how to check for Child Abuse.

        To me the photos in that book where worse than anything else I have ever seen and I have seen quite a lot.

        Col

      • #2915544

        It’s certainly gone wildly off track if not topic in

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to There has been a lot of dickering in this thread…

        places and that was before Barmy Claus turned up.

        Let’s take child porn out of it for a minute.

        Let’s assume that the tech did not find the images in anyway offensive, nor were they illegal.

        Let’s assume that he wasn’t snooping, and either found the stuff while investigating an issue, or simply bumped into them.

        Let’s assume like most places using company kit for the viewing of porn violates several company policies.

        Let’s also assume that the company rigidly enforces this policy among it’s general run of employees.

        At this point there is only one judgement you have to make, will the company back you for doing your job or not.

        To be quite honest, it being child porn is a get out of jail free card, which has got to be the saddest thing ever.

        • #2928823

          A tool for the stupid and lazy

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to It’s certainly gone wildly off track if not topic in

          after all, who can argue that we need to protect “the children”?

          I am really surprised myself of what is classified as “Art” instead of child porn, but there have been legal marriages to 12 year olds for centuries before it became illegal (in most places).

          A few years ago, there was another discussion on here where a member was outraged because “a ceo” had pictures of very young girls in swim suits and he was disgusted by it. The guys disgust does not make it illegal, but the outrage is all emotion without thought.

          Follow the company policy, and play it by the book and leave your personal preferences out of it.

      • #2928830

        Why do you think…

        by marty r. milette ·

        In reply to There has been a lot of dickering in this thread…

        Someone can lie bleeding to death by the side of the road in the USA and not a single person will stop to help?

        In the USA, everyone is more afraid of being sued than the moral consequences of closing eyes and walking by.

        • #2928576

          You can no more speak for everyone in the USA

          by ontheropes ·

          In reply to Why do you think…

          than I can for everyone in the UK or everyone in the USA for that matter.

          Try again.

        • #2790057
          Avatar photo

          But as a Generalization it is right OTR

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to You can no more speak for everyone in the USA

          When I was younger it was normal to stop and help those who had broken down particularly when in the country here at least. Maybe it is wrong to say that people are scared of being sued as I don’t know if that’s right but there has been a massive change in attitudes since I was younger.

          The last time I was driving way out where there was no one I stopped to offer help to some people who had broken down and they seemed to think that I was going to Rape, Plunder, Kill whatever. Apparently it was OK as far as they where concerned to die at the side of the road rather than have someone offer them a lift into town or see if they could help fix the problem.

          Even in town I stopped for someone just up the road from where I live to see if I could be of any assistance and they locked themselves in their car and where on the phone calling for help. But the guy who walked out of his house to offer help was OK. Go figure. :0

          Mind you he only walked out because I stopped. 😀

          Col

        • #2790043

          Things have changed, that’s true.

          by ontheropes ·

          In reply to But as a Generalization it is right OTR

          I’ll accept it as a generalization but I stumble at everyone. Everyone isn’t uncaring. Not much of a point for argument but I was in the mood. 🙂 Still am. Must be that time of the month. :^0

        • #2790042

          Things have changed, that’s true.

          by ontheropes ·

          In reply to But as a Generalization it is right OTR

          I’ll accept it as a generalization but I stumble at everyone. Everyone isn’t uncaring. Not much of a point for argument but I was in the mood. 🙂 Still am. Must be that time of the month. :^0

        • #2789836

          I’d not bet my life on it…

          by marty r. milette ·

          In reply to You can no more speak for everyone in the USA

          OK, maybe there is ONE good samaritan out of thousands out there somewhere.

          Google it. Here’s one to get you started, but there were hundreds of thousands of hits, so you’ll have a lot of reading to do…

          http://observers.france24.com/en/content/20080613-hit-and-run-torres-connecticut-united-states

        • #2789830

          Ropes looks up.

          by santeewelding ·

          In reply to I’d not bet my life on it…

          You look down.

    • #2915577

      Between a Rock and a Hard Place

      by britontn ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      I have been reading all this about this discussion and for the most part we all tend to agree that Techs are in a bit of a fix.
      Remember, we are pecieved to have superpower abilities to fabricate anything and place it anywhere. It could be very difficult to prove your innocence in reporting this issue.
      And when the heat turns up a notch, you might be left in the frying pan all by yourself.
      Having to report an issue like this somewhat makes your level of onfidence questionable. No matter how noble your intentions might have been when you blow the whistle.

      In one instance a scenario like this one happened: In a country where any form of Porn is illegal. But alas, the CIO of a particular organisation created virtual ‘executive lounges’ on the main server where certain high ranking company executives kept their porn material. The list according to quantity of material was as follows:
      1. Chief Information Officer
      2. HR Manager
      3. Asst Manager HR
      4. Operations Manager
      5. Closely contested by a number of line managers…

      Now where would you go and report?

    • #2915462

      Something is missing

      by public8 ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      This question is missing a key piece of context: what folder were the files found in? If it is a folder in My Documents or some other clearly user controlled area, then, yes, you use whatever “nuclear” option seems most likely to be successful. Police, HR, senior management, whatever.

      However, if the files were found in e.g. C:\Doucuments and Settings\[User Name]\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\, then they may well have been the result of an inadvertant click on the wrong link. “So what,” you may say, “Let the police sort it out.” That is where all you “moralists” are dead wrong. The police will not sort it out. They will do whatever it takes to get a conviction. Ruining an innocent man’s life is all in a day’s work for most members of the “protect and serve” crew.

      The children who were harmed in the making of the porn have already been harmed and nothing you do is going to undo that. But you don’t want to destroy another life on top of the kid’s lives. This situation is possibly far more subtle than most of the commenters try to make it.

      • #2915458

        Good points.

        by ontheropes ·

        In reply to Something is missing

        I discovered a single child porn picture on a computer I was fixing for my Physical Therapists mother, a grandmother. The reason I had the computer was because she had allowed a nephew on her computer and it didn’t work right after he was done. So, what was I to do? Turn in someones Grandma to the local equivalent of the Gestapo for child porn or just fix the computer and tell her what I found on it?

        I fixed her computer. I erased the file beyond easy recovery and put protections in place that will hopefully prevent any further accidental occurences.

        You have to use your mind a bit too. Said nephew will likely never be allowed on Grandmas computer again and now his whole family knows about his proclivity to view kiddie porn.

        I believe I did the right thing, I got rid of Grandma’s problem without any fuss to her.
        I can live with it.

      • #2915447

        Well if you’d had the patience to read

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to Something is missing

        back through teh previous 200 + posts starting two years ago (the posts, not you . :p )

        Point was raised and is valid. Though real child porn is much rarer on www, than some would make out.

        • #2915438

          I didn’t have the patience myself.

          by ontheropes ·

          In reply to Well if you’d had the patience to read

          I was browsing to see where everybody was and only read a few of the latest posts. I’m a wuss, sometimes I just can’t stomach it when someone starts in with their pro-religious/pro-Christianity spew. I’m not interested in reading it. I’m damaged goods man! 🙂

    • #2928811

      If you don’t snoop around on your boss’s computer you don’t have a problem

      by doug ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      You know people, if you don’t snoop around
      on your superiors’ computers you don’t run
      into these ethical problems.

      This is only one of many reasons why it’s a
      very bad idea to go anywhere on a
      superior’s computer you’re not supposed to
      go. I don’t even open up documents they
      want me to work on, I have them open the
      document. I don’t want them to see me
      looking at their recent document list or
      the files in the documents folder.

      I really don’t get why this concept of not
      snooping around is so difficult for IT
      people to get.

      • #2928727

        It is the lack of professional ethics

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to If you don’t snoop around on your boss’s computer you don’t have a problem

        I have the ability to go in and see what everyone makes, but I don’t. If I DID and got caught, I could and should be fired for abusing my position.

        Unless there is a set policy that the IT department is to be the Nazi’s, he should be fired.

        Company property does not equal a tech snooping through other peoples files.

      • #2928683

        One small problem for starters

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to If you don’t snoop around on your boss’s computer you don’t have a problem

        I haven’t got any superiors. :p

        Nowhere did I see that the tech in the original article was snooping, that’s your desired assumption.

        Also, whether it’s this tech, or one with a bit more clout, someone has to a least be able to see what files you have on any kit plugged into the company network.

        If you have porn, you could have a virus. If you are into forms of porn that you would rather your peers not be aware of, you are a security threat. An increase in trust, which is what you are trying to imply by your continual ‘but I’m a manager toss’ means you are also a greater threat.

        I really don’t get why this concept is so difficult for the technically ignorant…

        • #2789823

          Then you don’t have an ethical problem.

          by doug ·

          In reply to One small problem for starters

          You were told to look at media files to make
          sure they’re not porn. So this
          ethical “problem” the ethicist talks about
          doesn’t apply to you. You were told to look
          for porn, you found some, so you report it.

          He was snooping. Virus checkers don’t
          require you to look at jpegs.

          Like most ethical problems you get the
          problem by first performing an unethical
          act. Snooping around the boss’s is
          unethical, and dangerous. You could get
          caught. Or you could find out other stuff
          that puts you in an ethical bind. What if
          you find a file called “List of Layoffs”,
          when no one knows layoffs are coming?

        • #2790492

          You are a bucketful of self serving assumptions

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Then you don’t have an ethical problem.

          aren’t you?

          If you were say there looking at the dialog of a virus checker and it came up scanning

          Amy 3yo takes it up the ass.jpg, WTF would you do?

          Tbe real ethical test is not should a tech snoop, it’s not should a manager keep porn on a company Pc. It’s not adherring to some moral standard about porn.

          It’s if you were snooping (or not) and if you did find child porn, would you keep you gob shut to make it easy on yourself?

          The ethicist says you should, apparently you are saying you should. Me I’m saying, I’d risk being fired, prosecuted and jailed, before I let a paedo breathe comfortably for one more second.

          That’s my base ethical position, I’m more than content with it.

        • #2789099

          It’s actually an old ethical problem then.

          by doug ·

          In reply to You are a bucketful of self serving assumptions

          I can see what you’re saying. It’s actually
          the old ethical issue of a person who
          discovers a horrific crime while in the
          process of committing a relatively minor
          crime. He wants to report the horrific
          crime, but he knows that by reporting it
          he’ll be punished for his minor crime.

          From what I remember it’s normally told in
          context of a burglar who discovers a
          horrific murder while in the process of
          burglaring a house.

        • #2789020

          That did happen not to long ago

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to It’s actually an old ethical problem then.

          someone stole a safe. In that save was a flash stick that had a video of the person molesting a child.

          It was turned in.

          I don’t recall what became of the thief. That part never makes the follow up headlines, ya know?

    • #2928676

      No Brainer Call the Police

      by hangtown man ·

      In reply to Porn on boss’ computer–the Ethicist speaks

      Keywords child/”early teens” Your Boss is Sick. these Children are Victims.
      Silence makes you an accomplice!
      Part of my job is looking for Non Work related files. IE: Jpg’s, Mp3’s and such.
      Don’t Load Non-work related files on a work machine. Keep your Porn at home.
      Unless your afraid your wife might find it.

      • #2928660

        Assumptions

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to No Brainer Call the Police

        First of all, the writer clearly shows that he is not very aware as far as porn goes. Then goes on to ASSUME…”including some of young children ? clearly less than 18, possibly early teens.”

        This is what I question. A lot of porn is SOLD on teh basis of teh girls appearing to be under the age of 18, yet they are legal, have signed a release and been paid for their work.

        An example is girls gone wild, while these girls APPEAR to be just a bunch of slutty teens on spring break, they are ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS over 18, consenting (they ALL sign a waiver) and have been paid well. They aren’t just hanging out and drinking underage, showing their boobs because some fool with a camera asked them too.

        Or else there are Sanchez’s BangBus films, where he SUPPOSEDLY picks up young girls at malls, etc. and drives around in a van with friends before conning them into sex and finally dropping them off and laughing as he rips them off. (not too appealing sounding is it?)

        But he also pays an average of $1000.00 per shoot, the girls are all over 18 and have signed a legal release, the rest is all for film.

        No I am not a pedophile, or porn filme maker, but I know a couple of people that do make a good living from porn films and it is all just fake, a la “the MOVIES”!.

        • #2928653

          I am not a pedophile, or porn filme maker

          by hangtown man ·

          In reply to Assumptions

          People into Any sort of Porn have Major Issues.

        • #2928644