General discussion


President Obama says chance for healthcare overhaul is slipping away

By jdclyde ·
President Obama over the last few days has stated how urgent they quickly move forward his agenda of a government run health before the chance can slip away, not to return for generations. His words, paraphrased of course.

My question for supporters of Obama has two parts.

One, if his plan is sound, why would something that complicated be done in such a rush?

Two, if his plan is sound, why would it either pass now or not be available again for generations?

Or is he rushing things through so people don't have a chance to see what is really in the plan, like he did with his non-stimulating stimulus package?

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I refuse to comment on the political issue.

by Tig2 In reply to President Obama says chan ...

But healthcare reform requires a prerequisite- tort reform.

Until we visit and resolve tort issues around healthcare, there cannot, in my opinion, be any meaningful discussion about healthcare itself.

Doctors are so busy protecting themselves from specious lawsuits that they no longer practice medicine in any meaningful way. That is not to say that there are not some suits with merit. But those with merit are seriously outweighed by those without.

The goal of medicine is to treat the whole patient. The goal of re-thinking healthcare delivery should be held to the same standard. Until I hear that someone is willing to do this necessary thing, I cannot support ANY plan fro reform.

It's time to consider the WHOLE issue, not just the minor bits that are chewing at our ankles. Only then will we be able to find any meaningful and supportable change.

EDIT- Oops

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But why should it be political in the first place?

by jdclyde In reply to I refuse to comment on th ...

The man won the election, he has the majority in house, so in theory, if what he is trying it legitimate then why does it have to be a rush or nothing?

Something this major DEMANDS more than a quick vote to get political points.

And Obama will NEVER do anything to limit the damage to the system the whole tort issue causes. It is the poor people suing the evil rich doctors/hospitals.

Class warfare trumps what is in our best interests.

This SHOULD be a right and wrong issue, not a left and right issue.

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This is where we differ

by Tig2 In reply to But why should it be poli ...

To me, it has nothing to do with right, wrong, left or right. It has everything to do with the fact that the wrong people are being called on once again to divine a solution. Put the same issue in front of a representing body of MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS and I will put money on tort reform coming out the best solution.

We tend to forget this important fact in this country. We elected these people. We did not confer on them Godhood.

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put medical professionals

by jdclyde In reply to This is where we differ

in charge of if they can be sued or for how much?

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Are you both missing something?

by santeewelding In reply to This is where we differ

Tig, of all people, who I know not to be a medical doctor, but who has gone to great and serious lengths to know medically of least herself. This "medical professionalism" of which you both quarrel, belongs only with each of us, that we may choose.

Same goes for "legal professionalism".

Do I have to shout it in your ears?

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Not really

by Tig2 In reply to Are you both missing some ...

While never a medical doctor, I have been a licensed nurse so have a different perspective on the issue as a whole. I would go as far as to say that I may be more qualified than some others to define what might be meaningful healthcare reform.

When they start talking about reform as ONLY having one characteristic or another, it makes for a bad solution. They should be able to look at existing models to see that.

It is a wonderful thing to say that everyone should have access to healthcare. It is yet another to manage the system. Especially in an environment where doctors MUST practice defensive medicine.

In that model, the doctor doesn't have the luxury of depending on his training to identify the proper solution to the patient's problem, he must order any number of tests to rule out every other possible thing. That gets expensive fast and does not serve the patient.

I have no problem with opening the discussion of healthcare reform and actively solution seeking. I take issue with a politically driven solution to what is really, the wrong problem.

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Put your thinking cap on

by santeewelding In reply to Not really

"everyone should have access to healthcare"

I would say that you have access to healthcare of the very best, hands-on kind. And who in your case is responsible? How was it accomplished? What did it take?

Why not we make your perspective universal, starting tomorrow? What would that take?

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Not sure where you are going

by Tig2 In reply to Put your thinking cap on

I recognize that I am responsible for insuring that I get the healthcare I need when I need it. But I don't believe that to be the issue here. I think that the present system of healthcare delivery is broken and needs to be reconsidered. But that is one person's opinion and not necessarily a shared opinion.

There are things that I am able to do for myself to provide for some of my needs. The other side of that is that I recognize that there are some needs that I alone cannot provide.

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"The issue here"

by santeewelding In reply to Put your thinking cap on

Being in your words "the present system of healthcare delivery", I am not surprised you are unsure of where I am going.

I am jettisoning your entire framework, and every argument here pro and con appertaining thereto.

You will remain unsure until you let go your premise of "delivery".

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I disagree

by Tig2 In reply to Put your thinking cap on

While there are aspects to healthcare that one may take individual charge of, there are myriad others that do require a system of delivery, whatever that may look like. Speaking for my own case, I required someone else to excise the cancer, define the chemo protocol, and make a determination of my state of health. Even if I had sufficient knowledge to do those things, I would still have required intervention from an outside resource.

The reality is that there are going to be people who will see medicine as a service. This is not a bad thing on its face. While mostly considered a caring profession, medicine is, in fact, a service.

Regardless of how I as an individual choose to see healthcare, the reality is that my vision is not the only vision and that others see things differently. When direction is chosen to revamp the system in general, it is very unlikely that my vision will be the template.

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