IT Employment·20,072 discussions

Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

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I’ve been out of the computer business for about 5 years. I thought I was on the hot career track, but life happened. Nuf said, that’s not why I’m typing away here for the first time, anyway. After a long, hard search, I managed to snag a little IT job with a small local company. Help Desk for about 130 users. IT department consisted of 4 people total, myself included. We had a server admin – female, a database guy, a manager guy, and then me.

I was excited but nervous about my new job. Having been out of things so long I felt kind of intimidated and worried that my knowledge was way out of date. I figured logic and research would save me – it always had in the past. In that distant past I’d had a stellar career spending 8 years at a huge company where I worked and studied my way to the “buck-stops-here” level of tech support before moving up to development. This was followed by 3 years at another big place where I reveled in doing original Java development. R & D was such fun! But after 5 years doing nothing much more than setting up a wireless network in my house, I was worried about being able to handle support for the XP boxes and Windows servers.
Best I can figure, the people at the new shop were a bit intimidated by my heavy resume. What they didn’t realize was that I was just as intimidated by them! Things got off to a rocky start when I discovered the sad state of their SOPs for building new user machines. They used a lot of apps I’d never heard of and between my lack of knowledge and their lack of documentation I spent a lot of time taking notes and asking questions. It took me. I tackled the task of rewriting some of the worst SOPs, until I was told that wasn’t my job. I wasn’t trying to step on anybody’s toes, it just seemed logical to me that the person using the documentation was in the best position to update it. Right from the start the other female in the department seemed to be on the attack. I’ve worked with lots of different people in my time, but never with anyone so nasty! I didn’t believe she meant all the mean things she said at first, and just smiled or shrugged it off. But, you know, it started to get worse. She would tell me to do something, which I’d do, then when the boss came along later and yelled at me that I’d done it all wrong, she denied ever telling me to do it that way. I may be naive, but this was a first. A co-worker who tells you to do things the wrong way then lies about it?

About 3 weeks in to my new job, I finally decided I had to tell the boss what was going on. I’d never had to approach a boss with this kind of thing before and I didn’t know how to go about it. In the end, I sent him an email detailing a couple of very specific incidents where I was blamed for nothing more than doing exactly what she told me. Can you guess what his response was? Nothing! I might as well have sent my email to the bit bucket! He never mentioned it at all. It was as though I had used the wrong fork at a formal banquet and everybody knew about it but no one was going to say anything. This went on for a few days until it was time for a review. He seemed very angry with me, and I thought for sure he was going to fire me right then. But no. He actually couldn’t come up with anything bad to say about my work other than those specific things I’d put in my email. These he didn’t mention at all, and in fact told me I was really keeping that ticket queue down very well. He looked like it killed him to say it. I kept my head up and finally realized that I was in big trouble. I started sending (polite) confirming emails to the other female everytime she gave me an order. I wanted things documented for my own protection. But after a couple of days of that he called me into his office and told me in no uncertain terms that I was to stop sending emails. If I had anything to say to him I should come to his office and say it.

I was fired six weeks into my new job. I was on my way to work Monday morning when my cell went off. It was the HR manager calling from the company to tell me that I was fired. When I asked her why, she said I made too many mistakes.

One other bit of info I should tell you is that the last person to have my job (a guy) was also fired.

I want to know what kind of experiences you others have had in the workplace. I’m sure this is not the worst thing that’s ever happened to anybody on the job, just the worst that’s ever happened to me!

Topic

Something different

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

What an experience. I can understand why you are reeling. It sounds like they did not give you any specific examples of your mistakes.

Would you be interested in checking out something from which you could NOT be fired? 877.271.9619

Cheers,
Jack

Reply To: Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

In reply to Something different

Morti,
what would this something different be? please let me know contact me directly in UK

Women don’t know how to work as a team

In reply to Something different

It has been my experience that women spend entirely too much time fighting among themselves at the bottom of the ladder. No wonder why so few make it to the top. I should know because I’m an IT Tech woman, I’ve only had two women that I couldn’t seem to work with and it was jealousy on their part. Kind of sad because women offer so much in the IT field, patience being one.

Not true

In reply to Women don’t know how to work as a team

Women can be competative, but they can work as a team. It comes from the top down.

One of the best jobs I’ve ever had was with an all female department.
🙂

a bit offended

In reply to Women don’t know how to work as a team

I’m a little put off by your remarks. I’m also a woman in IT and feel I work very will with others. If there IS a problem, it should be addressed so it doesn’t interfere with work, then move on. Perhaps you should take a closer look at yourself to find out why you have such a problem with other women.

nothing to do with you been a woman

In reply to a bit offended

there is nothing to do with who you are and where you come from. it comes from over zealous people who dont know hot to bow down when knowing that you have done something good for the organisation which could even benefit them in the long run. dont worry about you been fired. like i always say ” they lost you!you didnt loose s**t” if you are good then this is a good eye opener for you and a good experience . what you did was perfectly write by trying to Document and keep it in paper. i am sure your boss had something going on with this other female worker of yours for sure
keep it real

p.s btw to all you men. i am man myself but i have come across guys as worse or even more ..so dont catagorise someones Sex,race,religion
Navs

Religion

In reply to nothing to do with you been a woman

I worked for a guy once who “couldn’t trust you” unless you belonged to the same parish of “the one true church” that he did.

Long story, but lucky for me it only took a ocuple months to get my health back.

Woman don’t know how to work as a team?

In reply to Women don’t know how to work as a team

Wow, speaking as a man, that sounds completely sad that u actually believe this. That’s like saying all drivers from the state of Mass are terrible! Does that statement have any logic to it? No it’s sterotypical garbage. I pray for your firm’s sake that you are not in charge of any hiring decisions there. Where did you say you worked again?

Women do work as teams

In reply to Women don’t know how to work as a team

Sorry to hear you’ve had bad experiences. I’ve worked in IT jobs for 15 years and have had great experiences with the women and men I’ve worked with all along the way. Here in Michigan every single one has been eager to help the other. We often share information to help move projects along. When we do have problems we try to sit down togehter to resolve issues we might have.

They kinda work as a team..

In reply to Women do work as teams

I have found over the years that women want to work as a team, but if you shut them down on a matter, or go against them, they tend to become eternally bitter.

I have one where I work now that is pushing the Microsoft platform in an environment that has been successful for years. She made a lot of bad decisions and forced a lot of poor decisions on the team in terms of sotware and now the best backpeddle is to push in another direction and blamethe problems on the platform. Tech Directorgoes against it and it is his problem becuase he is insecure and not training in MS, problem solved.

Women tend to get to emotional and use the I feel your pain theory to much with technology. Customer service is a good thing, but you need to know when to say, “I am sorry, we just cannot support that with ou current paltform or infrastructure”.

Work as a team?

In reply to Women don’t know how to work as a team

Maybe.

But on the other hand you hardly ever hear of a woman taking an M-16 to work and blowing away a handful of her coworkers.

I’m just sayin’.

Personality types span both genders

In reply to Women don’t know how to work as a team

I’ve worked with both men and women both as superiors, co-workers and underlings. From my experience scheming, powermongering, uncooperative, unfriendly people span all genders and races.

The best manager I ever worked for (and respected the most) was a woman. But the gender never matters to me as much as a persons’ attitude and work ethic.

-Z

You are not alone

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

It appears that you were treated unfairly from the first day. Sadly this sort of thing is not all that unusual. When you start a new job you don’t know what kind of situation awaits you. Very often there are political intriques and long standing personnel issues that will affect your experience and success. You may never even know why people act the way that they do. Maybe the HR department wanted an additional position in the IT department but the IT manager and current staff didn’t want another person on the team. You’ll never know what happened or why it happened. It’s clear to me that there are a lot of people who are happy to create a hardship for others to achieve their own goals. In other words when you just cannot understand why someone has done something bad you can always fall back on the general rule that people are a$$holes. I have relied on that rule to achieve some level of understanding for a lot of things that I’ve seen done in the workplace. That’s all I’ve got for you. I hope it helps.

been there, done that

In reply to You are not alone

I was terminated due to “outsourcing” after 4 1/2 years wtih a company. They wrote me up before the termination just to have a paper trail. I didn’t see eye to eye with my boss nor management and didn’t mind telling anyone who’d listen how I felt. That included HR. Anyway, it worked out for the better. At least my boss had to face me and let me go in person. I shook his hand and thanked him. That freaked him out. Anyway, life goes on and I’m better off. Good luck to you and don’t waste time wondering what you did wrong. Like everyone says, it probably wasn’t a good job fit.

Too much to soon

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

It sounds like you entered an environment where the pecking order was well established and your actions (especially so soon into your employment)were considered as “threatening” to your co-workers and the status-quo.
I fully understand your want to prove yourself and correct problems you saw but you may have acted too quickly. Trust in a department is everything and you have to earn it. Unfortunately I think you may have stirred things up too soon and didn’t build any kind of relationship with your co-workers or “boss” yet.
Sorry but it is a fact of life, too many egos and little kingdoms to deal with BUT I know for a fact that it is the same in almost every industry.

You did nothing wrong

In reply to Too much to soon

No point limiting yourself just because of a pecking order.

I sort of ran into the some of the same problems at my present enployer. I was their first hire with a 4-year degree…. an it intiminated some of them. But over time (2 or 3 years) I won them over and some are my closest allies. Fortunately it was because they were decent, professional co-workers at heart that gave me a chance to find my niche (and I did my best to help them as well).

From you account your former co-workers lacked professionalism (we could make a long list..) so even though the lack of a paycheck sucks, you’r better off without those deadbeats.

Dysfunctional Team

In reply to Too much to soon

I disagree with bman’s assessment of the situation. It sounds like a dysfunctional work place with little or no room for competence. I wouldn’t want to work there.
Don’t let it dampen your spirits.

Over Achiever

In reply to Too much to soon

You fell into the over achiever syndrome. You just re-entered the work force and wanted to prove to yourself that you could an outstanding job. As bman said this threatened the status-quo of the little group you were now a part of. You weren’t suppose to out shine all the others, especially the ALPHA female of the group. Instead you were suppose to be the submissive subordinate in the group. Of course, being out of the office for so long combined with the change in the IT environment since the dot com crash and 911, you were caught unaware of how political and competitive the IT business environment has become. Welcome to reality! Well you have two choices; fight by legal means or shake the unworth dust of this place of your shoes and move on. Don’t let their petty little pecking order group keep you down! They were wrong by firing you and they will suffer for it by additional work with fewer personnel until they get their heads out of their a$$es.
PS I’ve been there. It took a few months to get over the depression until I extracted my own head out of my a$$ and moved on. My advise; learn from it and move on!

Entrenched idiocy

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

From your side of the story, it sounds like you were hired into a department with an incompetent manager (or one who has a side deal going on with an employee), and entrenched techs who like things the way they are, and aim to keep them that way despite the chaos. (There are a lot of families like this also. One lives down the street from me, complete with plastic flamingos and old cars on the lawn.)

Some places can’t be fixed without getting rid of the whole staff. So consider yourself blessed to be out of the loony bin, and keep looking for a better place to land.

Consider yourself lucky

In reply to Entrenched idiocy

With the except of the plastic flamingos, I think Gralfus hit it on the head. It sucks being fried, I’ve been there, I know. But sometimes it’s for the best.

Some jobs are challenging exciting, encouraging, and rewarding. The job you described sounded about as stressful as can be. Firing someone after 6 weeks has absolutely no reflection on you. It is a reflection on the manager. If his higher ups don’t see that then they are as bad off as he is. And who would want to work for an organization with so much poor management.

I mean we are only hearing your side. There’s the possibility that the Manager’s mistake was hiring someone not qualified for the job. But from the sounds of your post, that is not the case here. Either way it’s the manager’s fault. Either he hired poorly, he gave poor direction to a new employee, or he lacks control over his department and allowed personal differences to creep in and reduce productivity.

I think your whole story is a total reflection on his lackings and nothing to do with yours. Consider yourself lucky and move on to bigger and better things.

Good luck,
Mike

give yourself some recovery time

In reply to Consider yourself lucky

“A co-worker who tells you to do things the wrong way then lies about it?” They usually call this psychopathic behavior… Most of us feel a bit guilty when we tell lies, even small ones. A true psychopath cannont feel guilt or remorse. So I’d agree with buschman, count yourself VERY lucky you don’t have to work with that woman.

Now the hard part for you is getting your self-confidence back after being fired. Like getting dumped by a new boyfriend (after a few datss), your ego is bruised, but not crushed. Take the time you need to get over it before you start looking for another. I know people are saying do it right now, today, but you need to be ready. It’s a very emotional thing to be fired, no matter how long you’ve been with a company. Acknowledge that and give yourself the time you need to recover from this emotional workout. It is not playing victim to give yourself a little time to compose yourself. You want to do this so that when you go on your next interview you aren’t tempted to unload about how you were wronged by the company. Be honest when asked, but give yourself enough time that the topic of firing is old news.

A book I’ve found helpful is Emotions Revealed by Paul Eckman. It’s not quite what you’d think – he writes about how we, universally, reveal our emotions on our faces. In one of the later chapters he goes into a situation where a person is fired from both the perspective of the firee and the firer. A flash of anger, resentment, disgust on both sides, and what does it all mean?

Good luck!

dignity and respect

In reply to Consider yourself lucky

None of us deserves to be yelled at for making a mistake in the workplace. Everyone is entitled to be treated with respect. A boss should sit down with an employee and calmly explain the problem and how to correct it. Regardless of the details of the situation with the female supervisor, this boss is a first class jerk. You will be better off with a job where you are treated decently.

Only Six Weeks

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I’ve been in somewhat similar scenarios and I can’t add a whole lot to what’s already posted. On the bright side you were only there six weeks so I wouldn’t even list this on my resume. I think there’s some good advice in several of the other posts to go a little slower and establish the trust but even doing that might have only gotten you a little more time with this company. So consider yourself lucky that you got out before you were subjected to anymore stress.

Good Luck with your new job search and hope you land some place where you get treated better.

Ignore politics at your own peril

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

You were doomed from the start.

Your experience was not consistent with the position you took. It’s certainly possible to go from a big company to a small one, and vice versa…people do it all the time. However, every organization has its own unique corporate culture and the differences are a lot more pronounced when comparing two companies of vastly different size. You were unprepared for those differences, and it sounds like you didn’t do very much to understand the culture nor try to fit in. You may have been rewarded in the past for taking initiative, correcting errors, raising the bar, and generally doing things right, but you can’t assume that’s how things work all over. This organization sounds more like a status quo, don’t rock the boat type of place, and there you were slapping paddles. No wonder you got thrown overboard.

It also sounds like you didn’t do very much to understand the interpersonal dynamics. The person you ran afoul of obviously wielded more power than the boss. It would have been interesting to have found out why. Was she there a very long time and considered indispensible? Was she related to the company’s owner? Was she getting it on with the boss? Was everyone just afraid of her? Had you taken the time to figure this out, you could have modified your approach accordingly.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not beating you up here. For your own sake, I’d like you to avoid the victim syndrome and take personal responsibility for what happened. If you can do that, you’ll not only feel better about the whole thing because you’ll feel more in control, it’ll also be a much better learning experience and you can avoid a similar situation in the future.

All in all I’d say they did you a favor letting you go, although the way they did it was ridiculous and unprofessional. This is a situation that would have deterioriated to the point where you would have been totally miserable…better to have it end quickly than twist slowly in the wind.

Don’t let this bother you. You know how good you are, this is just a case where a small number of people couldn’t recognize that. Their problem, not yours. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, get right back up on the horse and ride away into the sunset. Do it today.

different culture

In reply to Ignore politics at your own peril

I agree. In big companies, everything is more structured, if not it’s pure chaos. Smaller companies are more flexible. I’m not saying you can hide yourself in a big company but what you do is much more a group/department effort.

Small companies do it in another way. No hiding, every buck counts. The story of the SOP’s is quite characteristic: they don’t have time to follow nice procedures, just insert the cd’s and go for it. Sure it can be done better but how much does it take to keep such a system updated and experiment with new and untested procedures. But as you experienced: in smaller organisations the feedback (pos or neg) can be real quick and direct.

I don’t think people can switch between big and small. It’s a completely different culture. I hate endless meetings, rigid procedures, being a grey mouse, waiting for others to take a decision,…

I like being the person that can make a difference and make decisions. And yes this means struggling with a printer in the morning and in the afternoon discussing the direction to take for the next years. It sure means you have sleepless nights sometimes 🙂

And yes I was fired once. Worst experience ever. Be objective about it. Try to learn from it. It still bothers me sometimes although I was just one of the pieces on the chessboard in a mgmt-fight.

I agree with Pivert

In reply to different culture

Switching between different sized companies can be a real bear! The cultures and rules are so different. I was self employed, as a computer consultant, got a job in a larger corp., and was miserable. I had to leave the job. I am now once again self employed, as a computer consultant. In the morning I may be a help desk, afternoon installing a server, and the evenings removing the newest virus from home computers. I couldn’t, and have no desire, to adjust to a large corp. I can not deal with the office politics. Just pick yourself up, and get right back in to the industry. If you what to update your skills, there are a lot free classes on net, like the ones at HP. I have several friends that work, for free of course, in chat rooms, that help with tech problems. I spend some free time there, myself. Great ways to polish up your help desk skills, learn the newest technology, and teach other people what you know. Get the right room, and you can have a lot of fun, along with learning and teaching. The industry is growing way to fast to worry about the last job. So many opportunities! Get back on the horse, and Hi Ho Silver!

Peter Principle — good office politics book

In reply to Ignore politics at your own peril

You might read a small book, “the Peter Principle” by Dr. Lawrence Peter. He explores office politics in a very refreshing way.

IN words: “Everyone rises to his level of incompetence.” Competent persons are promoted until they are no longer competent. But are they demoted to their most recent competency? Not usually. They get stuck at something not well suited. Eventually a whole company can become incompetent EXCEPT the new hires and the very top.

He also explores mentors and who will be your enemies. Your enemy is your immediate supervisor whose job you are in line to take. The more excellent you are, the greater the threat to your immediate supervisor. Your friend is HIS (or her) immediate supervisor, who feels good about promoting you one step — THEN beware! Your co-workers at the same level are not enemies, but they ARE competition, and will step on you if they can.

Good teamwork happens when supervisors have a clear path for themselves and do NOT feel threatened by a subordinate; but rather see the excellent subordinate as an opportunity for the supervisor to advance (and take vacation). I spend an hour or two pretty much every day teaching my new hires everything that I know, that they are capable of learning. It’s a lot. I fully expect one of them to take my place. I’m not exactly sure w.

Countermeasure

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

> She would tell me to do something, which I’d do, then when the boss came along later and yelled at me that I’d done it all wrong, she denied ever telling me to do it that way.

If you ever come in such situation again, there are two things you should do:

1) Do only what you are told to do IN WRITING, and nothing else. Only in writing. Insist on it.

2) Look for another job.

Absolutely

In reply to Countermeasure

I got fired from a non-IT Position after a WEEK for doing what I thought I was supposed to be doing. ALWAYS get job offers in writing, make sure they document what you exact job requirements & tasks are. It’ll make things easier if they try to fire you for not doing your job, etc.

Run for the door

In reply to Countermeasure

In order to protect my own sanity

If I’m in a position where I feel I must protect myself from people I’m trying to cooperate with the game is over. Someone is going me or them and if it’s a struggle trying to figure out who then it’s me. Life is way to short to stroke out because of a job.

Thank your preferred supreme being for intervening so quickly. You could have smeared political butter on everything in sight and all that would end up happening is you get greasy.

Thank your lucky stars you are out of there

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

That place sounds like the loony bin. I would bet the other female had some power over the boss and other techs. I would also bet that she had no idea how to do her job. Further, I would take the guess that since you had a clue, you not only threatened her position, but cornered her with her ignorance.

She wanted to get rid of you because you had a clue and knew what was going on.

It also sounds like this was a malfunctioning IT department that had built a castle….you are lucky to be out of there.

That house of cards will come tumbling down anytime and I would bet the IT department is restructured.

Jeez, departments like this give IT a bad name.

I agree

In reply to Thank your lucky stars you are out of there

I agree. I had a similarly short job once, before being rudely kicked out. It took me a shortwhile to realise how lucky I was, even though it meant a further tough few months. Something else turned up, it always seems to, even if it is not what you expect.

Clarify Chain of Command

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

It is apparent there was something terribly wrong in the situation involved and I want to emphasize the vast majority of the blame would lie with the boss and not marysonthego. I would, though, offer one suggestion for anyone who finds himself in a similar situation, clarify the chain of command.

It is not unfair for an employee to ask who should be tasking him, and do it in person. I do not know if it would have made any difference, but immediately after the SOP incident, the employee should have just asked her boss what tasks she should be doing. It would also be acceptable to have had the coworker make requests to the boss instead of directly. This would have eliminated questions of who was directing the work.

A secondary issue is to deal with people face-to-face. Saving e-mails or copying the boss on everything rarely solves a problem. Though it may be uncomfortable, talk to the boss directly.

All-in-all, though, I have a hard time seeing how anyone can get to a fireable offense in six weeks. There were other dynamics going on, and my advice to marysonthego is to be glad you are out of the situation; it sounds like it was a no-win situation from the start.

Labor practice

In reply to Clarify Chain of Command

Few things wrong:

1. Ensure you have a typed job specification listing your key performance areas
2. Know who you report to
3. Check with superiors when you receive instructions from anyone

In South Africa summary dismissal cannot happen unless you were truly jeopardizing business operations.

You would be given the chance to state your side of the story before your superior and HR manager who would be obliged to listen to you and the complainant.

You could not be fired by cellphone – they have to give you 3 warnings, unless paragraph 1 applies, yet cannot fire you via cell.

You should have the opportunity of regular performance reviews where you clarify your deliverables and the company’s expectation.

You were victimised and probably unfairly dismissed in which case a fair hearing would re-establish you in your job, or offer you alternate employment or offer you compensation in lieu.

Same in Australia

In reply to Labor practice

Pretty much the same procedure in Australia, being fired by cell phone is outrageous, in fact, the whole situation sounds outrageous. In short, in Australia at the moment it would be the boss facing the music if you chose to take the matter further.

Perhaps you could move here, it’s nice in the summer 🙂

U.S. “Right to Work” Law

In reply to Labor practice

Unfortunately, in the U.S., in many states (there is no federal law in this matter), we have the curiously named, “Right to Work” law. This law says that a company can fire someone without cause and without notice. One can walk into the office, be told to go home, and the company has no further legal responsibilities. The rationale behind the name? The law gives the same “benefit” to the employee. One is not required to give notice and cna just decide to leave with no responsibility to the company. Oh, I forgot, there is still the matter of any non-compete agreement one may have signed at the start of employment. Despite the “Right to Work”, one is still legally limited for future work based on what is in the non-compete agreement.

The bottom line is the situation described in the initial post was a failure that was probably not worth salvaging. It is best for the poster to forget the experience and look forward to finding a position in a better work environment.

Skimming the Surface

In reply to U.S. “Right to Work” Law

Your answer only skims the surface of the definition of “Right to work”. The employee does have rights, and they come from the company handbook. If this company does have a handbook (with 130 employees, it should), then the terms of dismissal should be spelled out. Most courts will see the company handbook as a legally binding contract between the employer and employee. Only if those rules are violated (or some other laws, based on wrongful termination), can and fired employee take action.

Also called, “At Will”

In reply to U.S. “Right to Work” Law

Just for fun, I thought I’d post this info. I hope it builds upon this great info.

New York is an “At Will” state which means they can hire you and fire you for no reason and no documentation unless they have a company policy against it. Such as an employee handbook with stated termination policies.

At will means so long as you’re willing to work there, and they’re willing to have you, you can come to work. Unless you have a contract, then you’re not subject to “At Will.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment

At-will employment is an employment relationship in which either party can terminate the employment relationship at-will with no liability if there was not an express contract for a definite term governing the employment relationship. Several exceptions exist to the at-will doctrine.

Although at-will employment allows an employee to quit for no reason, it is most often invoked when an employer wants to fire an employee at any time, but there are limitations upon the employer’s ability to terminate without reason. Many of these jobs are entry-level ones. As a means of downsizing, say closing an unprofitable factory, a company may fire employees en masse.

Courts back employees

In reply to Also called, “At Will”

Even in an “at will” situation, if a company fires an employee and shows any kind of unreasonableness or malice the courts have overwhelmingly supported the side of the fired employee.

You’ll have to post links to this…

In reply to Courts back employees

I just don’t buy it…

Non-Compete Agreements??

In reply to U.S. “Right to Work” Law

From past experience in Georgia and South Carolina, non-compete agreements aren’t worth the paper they are printed on. The laws here go more towards the “Right to Work”. In one case, we had hired a sales manager from a competitor, and the competitor sued in court about it. The end result was that we kept the sales manager and the competitor ended up paying our court costs and lawyer costs as well.

Can you say “Employment at will.”

In reply to Labor practice

Some states do not protect employees from unfair firing. The law allows for “employment at will”. It means in the absence of a contract, an employee can be fired without cause.
In this case, I wouldn’t be surprise if the the server administrator or the boss have a friend or relative that they would like to have the job, but someone is preventing their hiring.
One poster suggested that the need to understand the power structure, pecking order, personal dynamics when starting a new job. Even in the best environments, influence is not always dictated by the organization chart and/or there arepeople with axes to grind. I envy those who write to say that you should pack up as soon as the situation looks bad. For many, personal and family circumstances don’t always permit that course of action, especially in small markets.

Be Confident! Dont’ Loose hopes!

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Hey marysonthego,

Dont loose hopes. Neither think that you are in-comparable nor under-estimate yourself. Thats good that you have posted the messages and lighted your heart.

Just think that they were not suitable for you neither in terms professionaly, nor as a good human being.

I must say, thats good that you came out from “BAD MANAGING GUYS IN BAD MANAGEMENT COMPANY”

Think Positive and keep going!

Jags Chichriya

Sue them

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

There’s lots of advertisements in the paper about unfair dismissal – make an appointment and go and see one of them. No-one will ever believe that you were unfairly targeted unless you do something about it.

BAD advise……

In reply to Sue them

you shouldn’t consider sueing them, considering every company in america has whats called “employment agreement” (name may change) that all I.T. persons sign when coming aboard. Forget the legal verbiage, in laymens terms, it states that you CAN be fired (terminated) for little or no reason at all – in the I.T. realm, it basically is the clause that says “we can fire you for not knowing your sh*t”… not putting you down, but thats how I.T. is all all planes of positions. So, if you remember that thing you signed, don’t even try to sue, you’ll burn your bridges badly, and this will only come back to haunt you years later when you’re trying to get on a Federal contract or so….best of luck.

To What Benefit?

In reply to Sue them

One should carefully consider the desired outcome before persuing the legal route.

Would anyone want to be returned to work in the environment described above? Even, if one is just looking for a monetary reward, how much would be need to pay for legal costs, an additional 6 – 12 months of putting one’s life on hold, and having to relive the situation before lawyers and in a trial. Even if the case is brought to trial, it will be a largely a “He said, She said” presentation with the company in control of the few documented “facts” of the case.

In the end, there is little to gain beyond vengence. One needs to carefully consider the personal value of winning versus the cost of the effort and versus the uncertainty of the outcome.

Turn this over to the Dept. of Labor

In reply to Sue them

Well we can all agree this was a bad job from the start.

However being fired without proof of documentation from your manager that you were making mistakes and you had been given a chance to correct that action id cause for legal discourse.

I doubt it’s your desire to go back to work for these folks. By taking legal action you can however bring the labor dept to bear on this company as well let the senior management of the company know what type of people they have running the IT and HR dept.

They won’t touch it/Do not give up!

In reply to Turn this over to the Dept. of Labor

Labor Dept. has a few strict rules about IT consultants/employees/contractors. I know because I actually won a case with a former employer who took six weeks of pay from me, when I left. Ten other people recovered pay too, because of the shady dealings. I narrowly fit into their critera because I was hourly and made under 20 dollars an hour. It was a good thing because the others got their pay, when this firm was investigated and they found the theft.

In addition, as stated, most states are “At Will” employers. You have the job with them as long as they’re willing to have you. If you chose to quit, you can, and they can fire you.

In addition, if there was a probationary period, which is stated up front, you can be fired for any reason or no reason. They do not have to give you any kind of documentation, they only have to show you the door.

I’d use this time to retool, update your skills, and forget them. Don’t even bother putting them on your resume, they’re a complete waste of time.

Chances are they’ll be downsized and you’ll bump into them on the way to your next awesome job, and they’re on their way to the unemployment line :)(Hopefully, in your cool new car, too!).

Good luck, and honest to goodness, I was in the exact same situation not too long ago, and it really WAS them and not you!

Do not give up!

Christine

I’ve been fired 3 times and still enjoy my IT career

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Although I’ve been fired 3 times, in two cases it was due to bad management resulting in financial crises and getting rid of people was the “only solution” in the managers’ eyes. In the other case it was the UK depression of 90/91. After the first firing (I was 1 of about 60), I got another job within 2 days. The 2nd time I was out of work for 13 months and the 3rd time I was out for 6 months (at age 49) when I received 2 phone calls within an hour, one from my former boss asking me to come back and one from a small company wanting some custom software writing as a one-off. I accepted both offers and ended up working 2 days a week for one and 3 days a week for the other as the ‘one-off’ turned out to be an ever-expanding piece of software! I’m still with the ‘one-off’ company, now a full-time employee. The ‘one-off’ company heard about me through the grapevine and 2 previous jobs have been the result of the grapevine; my policy is to keep in touch with ex-colleagues and let friends and colleagues know when I’m looking for work. A single bad experience shouldn’t weigh heavily against you if all other references are good. Your attitude when applying for a job is a significant factor; even if you feel intimidated, act confident – you’ve succeeded at job interviews before and you will do again. An option to maintain an income is to have a backup job so that when you lose one job, your income doesn’t drop to zero. Obviously a backup job has to be very flexible time-wise, usually self-employed.

Er… fired?

In reply to I’ve been fired 3 times and still enjoy my IT career

You weren’t fired three times. You were laid off three times. The position you were in was eliminated. That’s entirely different from being eliminated from a position.

Keep your spirits up

In reply to Er… fired?

I was a Support Manager and then Project Manager for a small IT company from 1998 – 2002. In 02, I was “downsized” (in reality I pissed off the wrong person) and out of work for 4 months. With two teenagers, it was important for them to see me daily applying for jobs, learning, doing everything I could to keep moving on. It was hard somedays as the ecomony was not that great in mid 2002. The short version is I ran into an aquantance who hired me into his company as the Business Manager responsible for HR, IT, and accounting. We are a small company (14 employees) but I have a lot of responsibility and freedom to do my job(s). It was a tough time in 2002, but the payoff has been a much better job, much higher pay, and a high degree of satisfaction. Remember, you have to eat, but money as you have discovered, is not the primary factor in workplace happiness. Be glad you found out early, can move on, and do it without a hole in your resume. Ask the probing questions during the interview as it is your opportunity to find out what is going on in the company as well their opportunity to see your skills.

Dale Carnegie

In reply to Er… fired?

Would the Dale Carnegie or some other “how to work with people” course couldve helped?

You say to-may-to …

In reply to Er… fired?

… I say to-mah-to.

Either way, “kicked to the curb” is “kicked to the curb”.

Take this as an “opportunity”

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Hi:
Who is to say exactly what happened and what was said behind the scenes that led to you being fired.

I have been fired from one job and had a contract cut on me but in all cases I have taken it as an opportunity to learn from.

It is easier said than done but look back at it and try to see the silver lining. From what you say you obviously have the skill and the ability so make sure that you are telling people about that and getting those points across.

It falls under the old line of “Look after No. 1”.

If they could not see the value that you were bringing to the organisation then it is their loss.

Good luck.

-Mark

Be Happy You’re Out

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I really feel for you, it’s not a nice thing to happen to anybody. Thankfully it’s never happened to me but I have been in a similar situation – I chose to leave before things got too bad. No boss has the right to yell at an employee, I don’t care what the situation or the reasons – it is plainly unacceptable in todays business world.

Egotistical and self important bosses are best left well alone, the same goes for the other employee who obviously has issues with her own security. It may seem bad for you at the moment but you’ll look back at it and realise it is actually a blessing in disguise.

Good luck to you finding somewhere a whole lot better.

about being fired

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Hi over there.
A couple of weeks ago I was fired too, after almost 13 years as the IT manager at the organization. It was not a matter of me as a person nor about tech skills, it was just political. The board of directors changed and most of the new ones didn’t like how the previous ones had done things. I had to obey them, what else could I do? That led me to be unemployed.
But future seems promising. Keep your arms up !!!

You too?

In reply to about being fired

I was fired mid-October from a monthly contract position (notice mid way through the month). No reason was given, they did not pay severence nor did they pay out the entire month that I was contracted for. In fact, I had to threaten legal action to get paid for the two weeks I actually worked.

Although this was my first firing I would have dealt with it a lot better if they’d followed the rules. Even so, I think I’ll be better off without them. I’m going to take a job at a call center until I get back on my feet (my landlady decided to remove my place of residence while I was unemployed – I’m out at the end of the month – Merry Christmas, now get out), then I’m jumping back in with both feet.

Good luck to all the rest of you looking for jobs too!

Small Office

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Small IT shops and good SOPs are rare. Small businesses have two goals, reduce costs, increase revenue. Not much different than any other size firm except where the line “enough is enough” is drawn. A small business with tight margins seeks harmony and peace among its small staff. They was no harmony, no peace, so someone had to go. This decision to fire you doesn’t have the feel of being personal to me, just business. I certainly understand how personal it feels to you though. I’ve been in similar situations, unfortunately for my boss I was the most skilled, so letting me and my knowledge about the “inner workings” go would be much tougher. In one respect you’re lucky, six weeks is easier to swallow than the years myself and many others have endured. Your story is exactly the reason why I ventured out on my own. I’m my own boss now and wouldn?t you know it, my old boss had to hire me back at consultant rates. This is actually working out much better because we both are seeking the same goal. When you’re on the same page, it’s wonderful. My advice, don?t try to make nice or gather “evidence”, just do your job. Use your own common sense and stick the skills you know best in every situation that’s applicable. Show your worth by earning a certification, building a test network, or listening before injecting. These silent activities will propel you professionally. You’ll acquire skill while earning respect from the right people in the office.

Well stated

In reply to Small Office

I have worked in large, huge and now small. Regardless of your technical skills, you will be graded on teamwork and ability to work smoothly with others, regardless of their ability. No matter how much chaos exists, the rest of your peers have learned to put up with it and even leverage it. They don’t WANT to improve it, it’s fine just like it is.
The lack of adequate documentation and skillsets is not considered a deficiency by management. The technicians have learned how to turn it to advantage – it’s easy to be a hero in a background of folks with little incentive to improve.
I’ll bet that you would have found that they did not pay for performance, had you remained in the group. If a manager cannot come up with decent reasons to terminate you, he is clearly inadequate to execute a valid performance review as well.
You narrowly escaped a deteriorating situation that was already in a downward spiral.

Reeling from being FIRED (Recovering)

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I’ve been in the IT field as a full-timer for over 12 years now – not counting my time supporting systems in the military. I’ve worked myself up to becoming a very respected Infrastructure Architect, Conference Speaker, and a Microsoft MVP (Most Valuable Professional). After almost 8 years as an independent contractor, I took a job offer as the Director of a team of Engineers and Technicians running a military NOSC. That lasted 2 years and was a great experience.

I was then pulled away from that to a smaller company that wanted a “High-Powered, big-name architect” they could headline to thier customers. From the beginning, things were a bit troublesome. I led one project for seven months (which was a stunning success) then was assigned to a migration project as one of about 10 small team leads, since the company didn’t have any design projects available at the time. To make a long story short, it was one of the worst-run projects I’ve ever had the misfortune to be associated with. (Your tax dollars at work) I asked for a transfer to another project and away from the VP who was responsible. The next day I was asked to phone into a conf. call that afternoon. It was short. Today is your last day of work. Please send us your keys and we will send you your pay and severance.

Wow! I’d never been canned before!

So now what? From my perspective, being an employee was overrated. I really didn’t like putting my life into the hands of people who knew less about their jobs than I did. I went back to independent contracting and am glad of it. I’m back to choosing my own jobs, working when I want to, and taking responsibility for my own actions once again.

Moral? There is only one difference between an employee and a contractor: The contractor *knows* when he will be fired!

Things happen for the best!!!!!

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I can releate to how you feel, I have been in a similar situation within the past year. But the silver lining in your cloud has to be the fact that you were able to get away from such IDIOTS!!!! It seems apparent that no one there has any clue of what Network Administration consists of or how to run a IT department. I feel that you were headed down the wrong path by accepting the position, but you live and learn. Just remember, before your next interview make a long list of quetions for your potential manager regarding SOP’s and overall company polcy.

Best of luck to you in the future, keep your head up and stay positive!!!!!!!!!

Reply To: Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

It sounds like your boss had a favorite son. Or in Mary’s case a favorite daughter. Someone who could do no wrong. That happened to me a couple of times until I got street wise to it. I found that the hiring manager would tip his hat by lauding a certain employee at the interview saying stuff like “I don’t expect you to be as good as Joe right away”. He was right in one respect, I would never be as good as Joe because I was already better but there was no convincing the boss of that and the best thing to do for all involved was to turn down the job offer.

Or…

In reply to Reply To: Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

My guess that there was a relationship between the boss and the other female employee- The boss seemed to ready to over-react when the other female felt threatened. I wonder; Did she cut him off…

Been there, done that …

In reply to Or…

… when I worked for a wholesale pharmacy where the VP of whatever (made no difference, she ran the show) was the owner’s mistress. Owners wife ran a string of nursing homes (he’d buy her off with a new one now and again).

It was a paycheck, and I left them. Only qyestion is, which book on work does this fit into? Traditional employment or employment in the global economy?

Been there, done that

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I worked for a local engineering firm in town and right from the start, the ‘head’ administrator was on my case. He would jump on me for things that my predecessor had done. Long story short, he would document any mistakes I made on the job. On the other hand, if I found mistakes he made, I would correct them and move on, just like you would expect in a true ‘team environment’. Well, he built a case against me and took it to our boss, the CIO and had me fired. I had nothing to stand on, and the CIO thought this guy walked on water. This guy had so many mental issues, a phychiatrist would have had a hayday. Anyway, in retrospect, it was the best thing that ever happened. I now have a job where I am allowed to make a mistake every now and then, and my boss is level-headed and not easily manipulated and snowed over.
From the sound of things, the company you worked for will be like a revolving door for the person that was in your shoes until they get a clue of what is really going on.

It happens sometimes

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Many years ago, I began a job as a programmer. It was a thursday. I met the computer tech there and we had, was I was thinking, an interesting duscussion. I said him, I would be interest in a future to have the possibility of managing the company’s computers. He was saying me my curriculum vitea was impressive…

Monday morning, my boss call me in his office and said me it will not be possible to being part of the team and I was fired. No more explanation, no examples, no help to correct the behavior.

I always thinked the computer tech was jealous and was the one who comvince my boss to fire me.

True of false, I will never know.

Today, I have a better job and I have fun to do my job but at that moment I was very…

hang in there.

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I am going throught the same. Just know that u were right and keep ur chin up. And ofcourse there are better things coming..

Hiring/firing

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

As a manager who has fired people, let me first say, it’s one of the hardest things for most managers to do — if they enjoy the task, they are wrong for management. From a manager’s perspective, I would have been more concerned that you couldn’t think on your own than that you were doing things wrong. The other thing that would have concerned me is that you couldn’t face me to talk about the situation — email is not the best way to approach this sort of thing. For future reference, be your own person; think for yourself and ask the manager if you’re unsure of how things are done. If you have a concern take it to the manager face-to-face; explain the concern, but don’t place blame especially when you haven’t been there long enough to know the politics of the situation. Remember that politics plays a HUGE part in this business world — maybe that woman was related to the boss, had had an affair with the boss, or even had something on the boss, you never know.

Now from an employee perspective, I was fired by a manager who was jealous of the fact that people listened to me, came to me with problems instead of him, and like me better than him. He even said so at our final meeting. I had to turn to contract consulting for several years because he would trash me every time someone asked for a reference — I finally sued him to make that stop. I realized contracting is less stressful because there’s more money and less politics.
Don’t know if this has made a difference, but it’s my two cents.

Blind leading the stupid

In reply to Hiring/firing

I was in a simular position only mine happened because of a merge at a job where I worked for 7 yrs and did it well. My new boss came with his “guys” and we were made to be useless. After a year in hell that ended in litigation with me winning I was fired and moved on to better things. My mistake was knowing more and doing it better. Keep the faith you don’t need a year of no sleep and high stress. You came into a closed shop and know more than the people you worked with. You will get a better job.

Almost the same happened to me

In reply to Hiring/firing

I have not let too many people go but the parallels in your life are amazing. Your thinking is almost like mine.

My philospohy: Be perceptive when you are a newcomer to an organization. Observe, observe, observe! See who is doing what and their interaction with others in the organization. Soon you will find out who is in ‘power’.
You have to be political to a certain extent. It is unavoidable. You ignore it at your peril.

Like you, I had the same issue as being popular enough, that people would refer to me if they needed any problem or issues resolved, usually that meant the boss was bypassed (politically incorrect).

Anyway, I am glad you are on your own and does set a good example for marysonthego.

Good luck and keep up the positive attitudes and do not stoop low like those mental midgets who cannot see the bigger picture on the future of their departments/companies. Remember the corporation does well, then you will do well too. (Well, most of the time anyway!)

Unfortunately, more common than people realize

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Whoever said “It’s not a perfect world” ain’t kidding.

You’d think this kind of stuff was unheard of in professional environments, especially in the highly litigious world we live in today. It isn’t. The fact that the economy and the job market are so difficult doesn’t help either.

So everyone looks out for themselves. You may need to do the same. However, in the future, start a little differently. Take notes on discussions, but get verbal confirmation from folks afterward. Make sure verbally that you’ve told people you’re not trying to cover yourself or hurt them– you just want to be sure everyone’s clear on what needs to be done.

The fact that the boss said “no more E-mail” is partly an indicator of his own panic– he’s scared of discovery and having documentation in their system of their poor behavior. He apparently either likes the troublesome female employee or can’t handle her, and doesn’t want a trail left.

If it makes you feel any better, bear in mind that nowadays multiple firings by a given department don’t go unnoticed. Eventually HR managers see this and take steps to get it handled– even though the sad part is, it happens after you leave.

Yup, it sucks… You may need to sacrifice something.

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

(1) By now you realize that you are not alone. Many have posted that have been through this and recovered. Soon there will be others from your former workplace looking for work too.

(2) This was more about them than about you. “Why did you leave you last job?” A hard question to answer in an interview, one that may very well hold you back. Craft a good (but honest) answer, one that neither makes you look totally bad and doesn’t seem like you are completely blaming former co-workers. (This is very hard!)

(3) Look on the bright side. You no longer work THERE.

I was fired (well, the lawyers have agreed to not call it that… but I was) from a place I once described as “Hell with fluorescent lighting”.

My former directors canned 3 of 6 middle managers in one year. We were equally hated by upper management and lower level employees. Being tossed was like having a boil lanced, it hurt a lot at the time, but the pressure relief made it worthwhile.

The downside is that those who have not recovered are not heard from in this forum. That isn’t always a bad thing either. My predecessor and successor from “that place” are now in real estate and happier for it. Other fellow victims of that toxic environment have relocated. So my next point?

(4) You MAY need to sacrifice something to get your career back on track. You may need to relocate, take a drop in salary or a take a lower position. Decide now what is acceptable for you.

I have taken a lower position in a smaller company and am rebuilding. The drop in pay has been hard on my family, but I feel better for it.

(5) Learn from the experience. It hasn’t killed you, so let it make you stronger. Recognize internal politics and learn to avoid them. Document your future work; it may just prevent you from losing your next job OR it may help in getting a promotion or raise. Always “pack a parachute” by updating your contacts, portfolio and resume.

Take a deep breath. Things are going to get better.

It is not you – simple as that

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

It isn’t you. You just stepped into a bad situation. What did you learn? You need to think about the signs you saw but didn’t send up red flags when you decided to work there. Get the feel of the current dynamics of an IT team before you join – some questions to ask everyone you meet on the interview: “What has your (team) done recently that you take pride in?”, “What do you think they could do better?” – Listen to the answers, but the secret -> are the squirming (unconfortable) in giving the answer? Got that feeling they aren’t telling you something? – Forget the facts – believe your feelings – and look for a job elsewhere.

Yep…

In reply to It is not you – simple as that

Look at all these posts. Being fired just isn’t the death to your career it once was. I’ve been fired from a contract where no one told me what the work flow was I was also told not to “bother them with questions” and so big surprise I did everything “wrong.” I’ve also been laid off where an incompetent coworker was kept because he was he was the “favorite” and I wasn’t. Both cases they did me a favor.

I personally do not understand how big companies get anything done. I’ve worked in and around a few big to midsize, and from what I can see, it’s all about kingdom building, watching your back, finger pointing, posturing and golden parachutes. Any work that does get done is despite all this.

And when they realize the company is bleeding money like a bleached whale they have to to “cut costs”, so they cut someone who’s not a player who can’t come back and threaten them. Put it as a bullet point in your resume that you demonstrably don’t have time for big co. bullsh*t and and go with a startup like I did. It’s on the edge and fun and a little scary. We just don’t have time for politics. We have to be a team or the startup fails.

What did I do wrong?

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Mary,

Ouch … sounds like you really landed in a bad situation there! Judging from what you’ve told us it sounds to me like you did nothing really wrong – you were treated very unfairly. Communications are key to making any job situation (marriage, relationship, you name it) work. Every shop has a different set of players and different politics so it can take awhile to get the feel of it – but to be canned in 6 weeks, you didn’t have time to get your bearings!

We just got rid of a developer contractor here after about the same amount of time. However it wasn’t because no one was fair with him. The guy came into our shop and almost from the first day was criticizing our work. From the first development meeting he was telling us all the things that we were doing wrong, etc. etc. That doesn’t sound like the way you came in to that shop, though.

About the only thing I can think of was you started changing documentation. Perhaps that was perceived (for all your good intentions) as being critical?

Aside from that – I think the fact that it was such a small shop (maybe a Mom & Pop operation) might have worked against you. Were most of the people there “original” employees? Sometimes it’s tough to break into a shop where everybody knows each other closely. Tough call.

-CB

No Worries

In reply to What did I do wrong?

You’ve got no issues there. You got out, a six week hole in your r?sum? is not going to be noticed by anyone. It would be more of a problem if you were there a long time, were fired for incompetence and were out of references.

Then what would you do? Go fishing?

That Sucks

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Mary,

I have went through the same issues with a guy who is now my manager. I’ve been with my company for about 18 months now. It all started when I was hired by the Director of Technology as the new Help Desk Coordinator. I have over 8 years of experience and held a few high level positions as well. My demise (or layoff) happend back in early 2003. It took a while to find a good network engineer position (didn’t have a TLC-Top Level Security Clearance. So I finally decided to take a Help Desk position at this small company to help with the bills. During my initial interview with some of my current team memebers seemed kind of nervous while looking at my resume during the interview process.

I was hired and immediately this guy started his quest to dicredit everything that I did from basic desktop configs to setting up laptops for a meeting. It was a very difficult road but I managed to come out of it.

Well to make a long story short….I took his butt to HR, skip the manager or director. Needless to say, by bringing up the issue with HR really placed his (not sure if I can curse on here) #%@& on the straight and narrow.

I am still going through some petty-drama while working with him. Thank God that the non-cleared positions are opening up in my area. My plan is just to find another job and to be aware of whose team I join in the future.

Hoplefully some of us Techies on here can understand what you been through. We need to not tolerate people that are out to ruin careers or opportunities for others.

SOUNDS LIKE

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I write to say first I am truly pissed at the way your new employers treated you and fired you. I am wondering if the bitch and the manager had a thing going on the side and you were her competition.? One of my supervisors was a chick who was interested in me and when she found out I was taken, the tables turned.
I am in a somewhat similar position but I work for the government and it takes layers of investigations before one can be let go.My supervisors have to lie so much so that it has become the truth. My superiors have been trying that on me for over 5 years. It must be my accent otherwise I am a very easy going guy. Granted I am no whiz kid but I make every effort to get the job done. I make OK money given my years of employment ( 11 years ). There is obvious jealousy and back biting about that. I am a little older than the rest of the crew. Get a good lawyer and sue these people.
Thanks

Dang!

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

This really sucks and I’m sorry to hear that there are still lots of petty people out there. It sounds like the boss lacks a spine and would rather hire a new person than confront the witch.

1. Based on what you have said you probably have some legal remedies to the situation unless your employment was “at will.”

2. In the future, unless this person giving you tasking is your direct supervisor, I would do nothing until he or she provides written instructions. This way, there is a paper trail and no “he said, she said.”

We had a similar situation at my place of work with our customer. This is a large orgainzation so my team has many “bosses.” One of the bosses would ask us to do something and later another would go ballistic because we had done it. Simply saying so and so told me to do it was not enought. So, now before we start any new task, we politely ask the customer to send us an email with the specifics of the task. This way we have a record of the request and a clear ouline of what is requested. Also, this is a much easier way to get all of the players involved that do not have time to attend a meeting everytime a new task arrives.

3. The company that fired you should provide employment information,i.e. so and so was employed here between the dates of x and y. This way, the time is accounted for with any new companies that care about such things.

Hope this helps.

This happens more than you think

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

One of the first things you MUST find out on a new job is who is seeing whom, who is the boss’s favorite, etc. And then no matter what, you cannot say or do ANYTHING that goes against this, no matter how upset you get about it. If the other woman was the boss’s favorite, regardless of if they are seeing each other nor not, you can’t say anything about her without ruining your stay there. What I determined in the military is that you have to be creative and make your superior think that any idea of yours is HIS idea, they he will have full buy-in and you can go on. Maybe correct ONE of the SOP’s and say “I tried this and it seems to work well for me, what do you think?” If he likes your writing style and doesn’t see it as a threat to his favorite, he will assign you the task of doing more – if he is negative about it, back off and save your job until you can find another. And it’s always easier to find a job when you already have one!!!

Crap happens…

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Reading your post something struck me: you did the same things I would have done such as documenting the orders given to you and meeting with the boss regarding the things that had gone wrong. What I would have done differently is to document orders given to me from day one and submitted them to the boss at the end of every week. A typical weekly status report to document your progress is reasonable. I wouldn’t have used email though, I would have given him paper. For some reason paper holds more weight if at some point you have to deal with personnel.

On the negative side, small groups like this have a dynamic all their own which you as the new guy should have taken more time to learn before trying to change them. If you want to come in rewriting documents, you should have requested to do so with the boss first, took the bulk of the work on, then spread the success around. Yes it’s a bit of a kiss ass move but the new guy usually has to show himself to be a team player and not a hot shot maverick who’s trying to show people up.

One has to always remember that an IT job is part technical and part political. You can be less of a techie if you have the right political skills.

Anyway, good luck finding another position! It will come but if I were you, I would take a week or three off just to get over the shock of the firing.

My Strange Encounter

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

After years of very steady employment, I decided to switch jobs (mostly boredom). I had a few offers, and two who were very interested. I finally chose a company (even though their offer was not the highest) because they impressed me with their organization. The first day I arrived, the vice-president of the company decided they has “mis-hired” me. I was devastated! They did agree to pay me for up to three months or until I got a job, whichever came first. Even though I was devastated. I decided to get up everyday, put on my suit, and either interview for a job or study for an exam (.NET certification). I passed an ASP.NET exam during this period. I finally got another position after 2 months, but I am convinced that my decision to remain optimistic AND productive during this period made a big difference. I also felt it was important to give my 3 teenage sons a “live” demonstration of what to do when life throws you a curveball. Hope this helps someone.

Read This One! **IMPORTANT**

In reply to My Strange Encounter

Not this one, but fretinator’s post above.

Chalk it up as experience

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Tough break getting fired. I’ve been fired off of a few jobs myself. Right now I’m working at a senior networking consultant for a nation wide company. I got to this point by getting as much experience as I could. Unfortunately, some of that includes getting fired from other jobs. Here’s how I look at getting fired: I now have an opportunity to get a better job or to do something else that I’ve been wanting to do. You may not have been cut out for your last job and that happens. Just put a positive spin on it, chalk it up as experience and you now have 5 more weeks of knowledge that you didn’t have. You’ll be fine and if you’ve ever been fired as much as I have, it just becomes second nature. My current job is one that I’ve been after for two years. During those two years, I was fired twice, laid off once, started my own consulting company, earned a BS degree in technology and I made a ton of money. Not bad for this guy. I did that by putting a positive spin on a bad situation and you can do the same. Good luck.

Cliff in Tucson

Well, maybe YOU mislead them!?!

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Sorry in advance, but I’m going to be brutally honest with you. Now, I don’t know you or the quality of your work. I can only go off of what you wrote. I have your side of the story, but without the other side its hard to make an unbiased comment. However, reading something in your post sent off a red flag. You said you were out of the IT business for 5 years, and the 3 years before that your were a Java developer – which I’m guessing isn’t what you were doing at this new company. You said that you hoped logic and research would save you. Could it be entirely possible, that THAT is the real reason you were fired? You also said that they were intimidated by your heavy resume. Could this then cause some resentment from them when you did not perform to their expected standards? Isn’t it possible that they felt that you padded your resume just to get the job? Then once they found out you didn’t know how to do many of the common IT tasks that they assigned you, they became upset? Again, I could be totally off base here, but everyone else here seems to be totally behind you and your arguments without hearing from the other side. Perhaps you should seek work in Java development, or take a few IT refresher courses before you jump back into the IT field head first. A LOT has happened in IT over the past 5-8 years.

Small Companies…

In reply to Well, maybe YOU mislead them!?!

I used to ignor office politics, and over the years it cost me. What I do now is not ignor it! I don’t PLAY it, but i know who’s who, and what’s what.

No where is this more important than in small companies. IME, small companies do NOT have good documentation unless they are in a market where they are required to by regulations (Medical, military, etc).

The fact of many small companies is that they are often the hardest to work for. I should know, I work for one. And we are so thin that we are only “one deep”. What that means is that if one of us is sick, the job does NOT get done until you come back. This includes vacations! You usually have to arrange for someone else to temporarily add another hat, and do the bare minimum damage while you are away, and often things are so screwed up by the time you get back that within two weeks it is like you never had a vacation.

What I am trying to say is that small companies need to have people walk in the door fully qualified. And those people often wear more than one hat. I wear 3. If you do a “bad job”, then there is no one to hide behind. Or, should I say, no one to protect you! Substandard work is REALLY visable.

IMHO, you need to find a medium to large company to work for. One that UNDERSTANDS that you will need time and support to get up to speed. One that has a formal HR process. One that may even be able to provide training as part of your orientation.

None of these things are usually addressed in a small company, let alone addressed well.

You need an enviroment which has the overhead built into it so that you can get the support you need, so that you can get the job done properly.

I think you were correct to start documenting things. When “the boss” told you to stop sending e-mails, then I would have stoped the e-mails, but continued to document! This also would have been a major red flag to me to warm up the resume and start looking again.

If I were you, I would just not put this little pit-stop on my resume. I don’t think it is relevant to your experience or abilities, and all it will do is hurt you in a job search. You do NOT want to have to try and explain why you did not make it through probation at the last company.

hth

Probably not ….

In reply to Well, maybe YOU mislead them!?!

No; the behavior listed is infantile…

The original poster indicated that she could master ANY I/T item in a short amount of time (compare that to an A student: in just 12 weeks time, goes from knowing Zero about a subject, to Mastering it).

This company hired a gem… yet they were too stupid themselves to see it.

It’s their problem and their loss… not hers.

Small Shops

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Small shops can be like that, which is really unfortunate. But, in situations like this there was nothing you could have done to prevent it, so stop beating yourself up about it. You wouldn?t believe how many people I know who have had similar experiences to this when working for a small company. It happens a great deal more than you would think.

Small businesses are typically run completely differently than larger companies, and that is not often a good thing (it’s why so many fail). What you typically see is a great deal of favoritism and/ or nepotism, as well as poor direction and management (when you are hired because of who you know and not for what you know, then chances are you weren?t qualified). There are also those scary types who have been with the company forever and have made themselves indispensable by making sure that people like you (a threat to their position) don’t last very long. Sad, but commonly seen, these cancerous employees are the scourge of the small business.

As others have said here, there are many reasons why someone may have hidden power in an organization such as this, and finding that out can be nearly impossible. Politics can be much more complex in a small company, and this can foster an atmosphere where the suck ups and brown nosers succeed over the people who have the best skills. In this sort of negative environment, the intelligent and capable worker eventually sees that there is nothing they can do to effect a change and moves on. As sick as it sounds, they did do you a favor by getting rid of you now rather than waiting after you have invested several years of your precious time in a badly run shop.

My advice to you is to try to stick to larger companies where your skills will be valued over someone who’s greatest contribution was being an office fling, someone’s brother in law or cousin, the owner?s golf buddy, etc.

I have experienced something very similar to this personally, and all I can tell you is that I know there is nothing I could have done better or differently to change what happened. Yes, it was a huge wrong and I was treated unfairly. But, all you can do is move on as I did, and, if you ever decide to work for a small company again, just be sure to check things out thoroughly beforehand. Talking to all the employees as much as you can beforehand may give you some insight on the dynamics of that shop and could save you from having to go through this all over again.

The easy thing here is to get negative about the whole experience. Try to resist that as much as you can and stay positive. Best of luck to you!

Sensitive feet

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

From I can tell from your side of the story, you may have stepped on a few feet. The glaring example is the rewritting of SOPs without approval to do so. My guess is that the person who got you fired wrote those SOPs and were a little offended. I did a similar thing for a small startup I worked for where I was able to reduce the rental costs of our office equipment significantly. The primary sharehold was extremely offended. He said that he had spent quite a bit of time researching this and that I was wasting my time. And even though I had the numbers to back me up, we still retained the services of the other supplier, just because the boss wanted it that way. Trust me, this was a total ego trip. I didn’t get fired, but I didn’t stick around long.

That said, I think that getting fired is going to be better for you in the long run. The department was fairly small, and it sounds like they just wanted a grunt to “shutup and do what they were told” (even if what they were telling you was inconsistant, e.g. bad SOPs). My recommendation would be to move a little slower next time, and gain the trust of you peers. Then if the place turns out to be completely disfunctional, you can look for a new job on your terms.

Its just like Kindergarten

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

If you dont fit in with the rest of the kids, then they dont want you around.

Its all about being in the clique and kissing up to the right people.

Head up and paranoia is not always bad

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I was not fired but I gained a little paranoia when working for a large firm under a young control freek. As a person she was nice but give her a little power and the same thing you went through happened to me. I was just ahead of her and had 5 recommendations and backed up my work ahead of time.

This last time was after two years of layoff, working for my son, doing an excellent job and
working for one month contract for a World Wide Corp and getting appraisals. I started work for a government office. I had told them I do not do well under micro management but they wanted me so I left my job for my son early. He was on vacation so I had to take a few calls while at work. Now mind you, this woman was on the phone 4 hours a day with her family….yep, you could check phone call records and find that out for real! She complained. Then as time went along even after explaining things to her and receiving maybe one personal call in two weeks to go to lunch, she still complained. Then after she agreed it was ok, she still complained and claimed I was getting new calls! A pilot called in to tell me he was heading to the hurricane area to help out and he had to notify someone of where he was going and she would not even give the phone to me! She said I made errors and so she corrected the so called errors and really made the errors and I had the originals to show what she did and still no one in higher situations would listen! So the letters were sent out by her with her errors in them! Government letters! Finally her boss came to me and asked me to not contact anyone outside the office, then asked me to write to 4 people outside the office and I did so stating that he had asked me to do so and then he came up behind me, whispered in my ear, “remember, do not contact anyone outside this office.” and then after I sent the e-mail he asked me to write, he told HR, I had disobeyed his commands!

I was not fired. I had too many letters of recommendation already in the works so they laid me off. I do not know what to tell you other than, be paranoid somewhat, back up all your work, all your e-mails, and believe in yourself. This sort of thing is extremely depressing and I feel sorry for those trying to get things going in the Government with people like the woman I worked with but suing will only make people afraid and paranoid to hire you.

A six week record does not have to be reported on a work history but any letter of recommendation, or a reference can be used.

I am sorry people that are willing to work hard and do a good job have to go through situations like this. It happens more often than anyone would like to admit. Just do not give up and settle for less than what you need to live on because it will just make it harder for you to get decent pay in the future. If you settle for less just to survive, you are then asked why you think you should deserve higher wages.

HANG IN THERE!

You need to chill out

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Unfortunately, most people are very insecure and have fragile egos. It sounds like you landed in a whole nest of them. Re-writing SOP’s and that sort of thing is seen as a threat from the old timers. Next time, go a little slower and master the art of making friends (or at least not alienating co-workers) first and make changes later. People like to think new ideas are their ideas or at least like to think you are asking their blessing. Nut cases, but we have to learn to work with them. Break them in slow and you can run circles around them.

Bad places

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Thank your lucky stars you are out of there. You did not really want to work in an enviorment like that. When you are told not to document your actions with another worker, that is a bad sign. Your boss was never on the fence or on your side. HE was clearly on her side of the fence without a doubt. He was protecing her from you and then fired you for what?

You were done before you began. That was a bad place to work. In most of the places I have been the boss tries to be nuetral and listen to both sides of the story. He turn a deaf ear to you and was never interested in what you had to say.

Move on and don’t worry about that dump. You were invading an already established kingdom that wanted nothing to do with you.

good luck

Gary

Thats why i started my own Company.

In reply to Bad places

Never been so happy. Wish i would have done this along time ago. Dont let the things that has happened bother you. You have to keep your mind in self control and just go on to better things in life. People like that always get what they deserve. It’s just a matter of time. There is plenty of other jobs in IT. Now that i have started my own company i love it.
Thanks
mngi@pgtc.com

Clarification of Task

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Could you identify the two tasks and identify the actions that were wrong?

It is not the end of the world

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I am a seasoned professional working in Dallas, the whole industry is in a uproar. Be honest upfront during the interview process and that will help. I have been fired or had a contract cancelled at the most imconvient times. Some people can’t deal with change. Most of all , do not compromise your integrity. It will always be under attack but understand it is more important to your future than any job. Keep your head up, ask HR if you can depend on them for a reference. Keep your head up. We all make mistakes, the idiot is the one who keeps doing the same thing over and over again. I commend you for your honesty, just make sure that happens earlier next time.

No matter what others do, do the right thing, even if they are threatened or imtimidated by what you do. Be first to work hard , and first to stand up for the right thing and success will follow.

Take Care,

Chuck

What Not to Do

In reply to It is not the end of the world

First off, get the lay of the land before you’re critical of any configuration/situation that existed before your arrival. I was hired at an independent business membership organization and immediately started an inventory of all expenditures going back 3 years. When I saw the puny payoff from the hundreds of thousands invested, I may have said one or two things critical of their progress – little did I know the Sr. VP was in charge of such affairs. He didn’t take it well, even though he had nothing to do with computers and appeared to be taking a stab at it.

To compound my error, I made the mistake of talking to PC Week when they called in a random survey of computer departments. I was very critical of the amount of money spent on our system (a Wang 7110) at the time. They quoted me BY NAME the next week in their publication. Wang sent out a Hit Team to make sure my life was hell. They monitored the system for 2 weeks and came to the conclusion the system was great, but ‘terribly managed’. Imagine that. They even suggested I was allowing too many people to access the system. Silly me, I thought that’s what people did with systems.

The important thing is, I’m still here and Wang is dead. My short career with the organization ended when the Sales VP convinced me to purchase vapor ware from a tiny software house and then blamed me for everything in front of the Board of Directors. I know a set-up when I see it, and I beat feet to another company.

Number One, be personable, approachable and friendly. Everyone in your organization is potentially helpful to you depending on your likeability. Even if you don’t have the technical chops, people will forgive you if they like you. They’ll even help you over the rough spots.

Number Two – maintain a paper trail. I was screwed by a He Said – He Said with the VP of Sales, who not only got me the job, but turned out to be a major Snake.

Number Three – Keep up your friendships. I have never found employment through headhunters or the newspaper. Every single job I’ve had in the last 23 years was word of mouth from A FRIEND (see No. 1)

Number Four – Keep your resume current as possible and readily accessible (on a thumb drive around your neck, if necessary). Be like John Kerry and jump on something better when it comes along. It’s just a temporary solution to a long-term problem and even if unemployment is 15%, all you have to do is manage to be in the top 85%.

There will always be a demand for quality, persistence and a sense of humor and you REALLY don’t want to work anywhere where they’re missing.

Don’t give up

In reply to It is not the end of the world

Don’t worry, all things work together for the good. Look towards the hills from whence your help come from.

All I’ve got to say is…

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

..everyone has a boss. As long as this was not a contract (which I have been let go of one in the past for no reason, and contracts are usually worded “no reason for termination required”) you can take it up with people higher up. You had the right to document everything through email. I have done that before to cover my behind before, not necessarily because of the “doing something wrong” but more of the “doing this before I got to the other”. As long as this was not a contract I would definitely take it up the ladder, not as much for your sake, but for the sake of anyone else being hired for that position. If you dont have access to your communication with the “other lady” you have the right to request it. A company should keep all of the communications for some time. They are required to keep the PSTs for 6 months – 5 years depending on the nature of the company. Just do some digging and go after them. Let the force be with ya!

Other Side Of The Coin….

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

We just had a similar thing happen here not long ago. A contract person came in and was absolutely hopeless. Their CV said they could do all this stuff and when confronted about it they said that they hadn’t been in the field in a long time and admitted they were lacking in knowledge (the CV reflected none of this). It was disappointing for the team and a real let down as we were in the middle of a very busy period with a load of pressure on us and the last thing we needed was an IT “Professional” who had to be spoon fed and lacked iniative.
The person ended up leaving as it was obvious to others (general staff as well as IT staff) that they just didn’t fit in to the team well – besides the fact that they couldn’t do the job that she was employed to do either. They managed to cause a huge rift in the IT department while here also (only employed a few months). IT morale went down – when it was usually a great team to work in. Staff around the company lost confidence in IT due to this person not being able to support the IT department properly also (spending huge amounts of time mucking around with problems and not resolving them). Luckily they decided to resign (obviously felt the vibes from everyone) and I must admit it was hard not to feel negative about the whole situation and show that frustration.

One benefit is that we have all learnt a lot from the saga – ensuring that next time staff are employed that they fit in with all the team members (even a contractor), that they don’t need constant supervision (make sure he checks the refs properly) and they actually have iniative (this person had none) as well as get up and go.

OMG!!!

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

My husband just went through something very similar, at a small, family-owned company. He was there for 4 weeks, and was told, “you’re just not [insert company name here] material”…and that was it.

Do you really want to work for someone like that? I didn’t think so. I know you want to be gainfully employed, so dust yourself off, and put your talents back out there. If a potential company can’t see that for what it was (a bunch of 3-year olds trying to run a tech dept), then you don’t want to work there either.

Best of luck, I’ll keep you in my positive thoughts!

DJ in Tampa

Working with Monsters

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Can I suggest reading a book called ‘Working with Monsters” by John Clarke. It is about psycopaths and sociapaths in the workplace. It also contains very valuable information on dealing with difficult people. While not all people that we have problems with are psycopaths, it will help in dealing with bullies and spotting someone who is manipulating from behind the scenes.

Reply To: Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I started a job in Michigan and before I was hired, I informed them I was in the National Guard. They stated it wasn’t a problem. I was always on time for work and was courteous to the customers. I had many of them who asked for me because of my knowledge and courtesy. There were a few people that I worked with that customers specifically requested they not do any work at their site because they were rude and/or they dressed raggedy and didn’t portray what the company thought was a good vision.
1 month before my annual training, I had my evaluation. I had all meets or exceeds expectations except for one (I am talkative). I was told that I would have another eval in 1 year. Those individuals I mentioned earlier were given 90 days to shape up. I then got an e-mail to go to school for the company. I sent back that the class was taking place during my annual training. One of the owners then asked if I wanted to take the time as unpaid leave or use vacation. The company’s written policy was that they would pay the difference between the military and my regular pay and I pointed him to the information.
I went on annual training and while away, another employee was hired. When I got back, I worked the week and was let go due to “lack of work”. During that time, the new person was servicing my clients.
After I was let go, I contacted the DOL veterans section. They started an investigation and took my statement. They then presented my statement to the company. The company quickly referred them to their lawyers who stalled and only answered partial questions. After 6 months, the DOL stated that they weren’t going to investigate further because the case was getting stale and if they couldn’t clearly win in a reasonable time, they would drop the case rather than fight and possibly lose. Thus they have a perfect record of winning.

I ended up out of a job from Sept 2002 to Jan 2003 — Not the best time to be out of work for an IT professional. I ended up having to move in with family because I couldn’t afford to live in the area anymore.

Incidently, the company changed their policy on military pay and those people that needed another review, one of them the managers nephew, stayed on.

The good news is that I found work and I have the best job in the world now. I can truely say I make a difference in my company and, because of who I work for, the world.

Familiar Story

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

My story is very similar but I was a Senior DBA. My boss ending up physically assaulteing me. When I made a complaint, I was fired by the Chief Executive and escorted off the premises.

The Union was outraged and took up my case but when it came to the appeal the Union Rep said he had better things to do with his time than represent me. When I asked him where was the justice, he said I had been watching too many Hollywood movies.

I suffered two years of mental anguish and had psychiatric treatment for what was diagnosed as post traumatic stress, accompanied by a couple of attempted suicides.

You might think this was typical of a small unregulated employer but no – this was the United Kingdom’s largest employer – the National Health Service. I only began to understand the reasons behind my misfortune when I heard a specilaist on bullying on the radio. The typical bullying victim is a person who is performing better than average and as a result generating resentment from colleagues who are not so keen on working hard. So the conclusion seems to be keep your head down, don’t care too much about the job and don’t expect any support from management whatsoever, because they are often the worst bullies.

The solution can only be having alternatives and not basing your opinion of self-worth on your job or what your boss and colleagues think of you.

I sing and play my guitar now, semi-professionally and there is nothing like audience appreciation. If they like you, nobody can take that away and nobody else’s opinion matters. If they don’t like you, you probably deserve it. That’s is easy to live with because it is fair and you can always work on improvement. Work on basic skills that help you survive in the wilderness and when you are at the bottom you can always pass around the hat. Believe me it’s lot more fun and the lower the social strata you’re in, the nicer the people you meet.

Yours, almost over it.

Loyalty

In reply to Familiar Story

And companies wonder why employee loyalty is at an all time low…Loyalty works both ways, and it is obvious from your post that the emploer chose which employees to be loyal to instead of treating all employees equally. I know it feels like you have been a victim of a gang attack, since no one seemed willing to defend you in this. Been there, done that. I wish I had more comforting words for you but really all I can say is, you definitely have to be better off, even if not financially at least mentally, to have gotten out of that nightmare.

Word gets out about crappy companies

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Word gets out about crappy companies to work for. I have been in IT for 21 years and have found out that they either like you or they don’t. This seems to be determined when you walk in the door on your first day. There are some companies in my area I would not even consider working for because of what I have heard about them. When I went to school to learn how to be a computer operator, I was told by one of the teachers not to work for a bank, hospital or insurance company. They will run you to the ground mostly with petty stuff. (I worked for a bank and hospital and found this to be true) I think in your situation the other female in your department was either incompitent at her job and did not want the management to figure it out or she was jealous of your talent that you would come in and show her up. As for your ex-boss, it sounds like he is run by the other woman in the IT dept and is there just to collect a paycheck. At some point though the bubble will burst there and those people will be gone. I worked with one such lady that new everything there was to know about programming in RPG. You couln’t tell her she was wrong without upper management getting involved. Those type of people seem to be everywhere now. I wish you luck in finding a job that you like.

Blind eye

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I can empathize with you. I was in a situation where I had found out the company’s CFO was browsing pornography during working hours on company equipment. I had been with the company for almost a year when I had discovered this, and upon advising my manager, the CIO, she practically dismissed the issue. From that point forward I lost all respect for her as a manager, and soon I started to notice her lack of knowledge in IT altogether. Although I should have been more professional, I resented that we had a policy in place, I brought the situation to light, and nothing was done about it. A few months later, I was dismissed because I “did not respect her position”. I felt I was terminated for discovering an executive of the company was using resources inappropriately.

I did not let this issue deter me. Since then, I took another job at a great place at for more money. During my interview, my current employer asked the dreaded “why are you leaving your current position?” I simply stated my situation, provided a copy of the documentation (omitting names of individuals and positions within the company) I gathered, and eventually got the job. My current employer seems to have my back, which is something I did not feel for the former.

That Place is a Joke

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I have worked in places like that for about 9 months under a contract with a insurance company in the Hartford, CT area.

Most of the IT departments in those companies are extrelemly nepotistic. The one I was in had romanace, misplace personnel, a manager more intereted in visiting the home office 12+ miles away than working with his group which was kinda of out-in-the-boon docks.

There was a lot of sexual sleeping around because the boss was litterly engaging in it himself. It took me a week to figure out that that there was sexual relationships that was completely unprofessional. I stopped by the bosses office at aroun 6:45 in the am and found one girl in the office with a hicked-up skirt almost every AM in the bosses office.

He loved it.

He tried to pretend he was a technician (the boss) but I found he was a babbling idiot. He got away with it because the people above him didn’t know the difference.

This is why many of our larger companies are sliding into the gutter – just look at DELPHI as a recent example.

No buddy, what happend to you is NOT your falt but a corrupt department and a drag on the companies bottom line. This is why the Indians and Chineses and European Companies are beating us up with Innovation.

We are too concerned with Business Games and keeping these parties going in these large corporations. Feel Blessed you are out of that mess but learn from it; meet with all the people you will be working with in you next job interview and ask tough questions like are decisions made by the manager or does he sit down and consult with his troops before making any committments.

Ask the questions before hand and save yourself some grief. I was contacted by a San Franciso Recruiting frim about a Bioinfomatics position. The recruiter was Indian and I could hardly understand a workd he said. My thought: What kind of a job does he have to offer. If I want a job offier I want it from “someone” that can clearly speak english, keeps everything out-front and is willing to bring me out to meet the staff. After all, you are entering into a “marriage of sorts” and should know your partners well. The days of just hiding in you cube are over; collaboration and innovation are the only survival methods you have.

Go out and get another job and forget this one. Be honest with your next employer becuase they may have had similiar experience (the odds are very high that they did).

W. Roper roperw@uisalumni.org (U of IL – Elec. Eng)

Female bitching

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I’m a female in the IT industry as well and had a similar experience to yours last year. I’ve now being free-lance for a couple of years and move happily between positions, some more senior, technical or challenging than other support positions. Obviously I’m quite often the only woman in the team, or when lucky they may be around 10 / 20% female workers in similar jobs to mine. Even if I’m a shoes lover and enjoy putting make-up or wearing sexy clothes, I tend to dress down for work. In a male environment I found this attitude working well.

Anyway, last year I got pregnant and decided to step down for a few months. I had previously being contacted by a company for a support position (proprietary specialist HW and SW) and they agreed to take me on a freelance position, at the same money than the other permies. No need to say I dropped my income by 50%, even if I was offered a lucrative contract at the same time. I took this position because the guy who interviewed me seemed so keen and kind and the job was close to home. They did not notice me being pregnant at that time.

One week after taking the job, I realised it was a real idiots’ job and they took me on because I’m fluent in 3 european languages, and lots of their customers are in Germany and France.
The guy who interviewed me never spoke to me again; instead I was introduced to my “team leader”, Sam, a blonde with big boobs who had the disgusting habit, when talking to a male manager, to suggestively suck a pen! Sam never went to university and most of her experience, besides sucking pen, was in retail.

Exept me, they was another woman in the team who turned to be a lesbian. She initially got on well with me, till she saw I was pregnant. After that she never spoke to me.

The guy who interviewed me, my team-leader’s boss, was always working from home. We all knew his wife was severely pregnant, and had to constantly go to the hospital. We were told he had to be very supportive to her due to her weak condition. I personally thought he was no more but a lazy guy.

Sam was very nasty to me; she would allocate support calls but would never give any interesting to me. I was mainly asked to translate from french / german to english. I saw a look of pure hate in her eyes when she found out I was pregnant. She made a big fuss when I had to go to a doctor’s appointment.

That low-level bitchiness, the complete lack of challenge in the job made me very depressed. I was crying or arguing with my partner every night.

then one day, after around 6/7 weeks, I got a phone call for another position, more money and more challenge. I went for an interview and got sacked from my current position for taking time off work. We had champagne that night! I got the new job, in a male environment and it turned an absolutely wonderful position. The firewalls were a complete mess and because the company had being buying lots of smaller competitors, they had lots of sites, with heterogeneous network equipment that needed connected. They also wanted to migrate to a MPLS network. The job was great, money was good and none of my collegues ever mentionned my bigger by the day tommy!

Lesson I learned: hard to be a woman in a men’s world!

You DRANK when you were prego!!?? ;-)

In reply to Female bitching

Oh, I kid, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!?? 😉

So anyway, congrats. It seems there are too many shops that are getting “catty” like that, and I don’t know why…

Is that really the lesson here?

In reply to Female bitching

Your account of the bad job is exclusively about how bad the other women were acting. How do you conclude that it is hard to be a woman in a man’s world from all that “low level bitchiness” from your female coworkers?

Once burned, twice shy

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Two things:
1 Next job, even if it seems to be a “perfect” fit – approach it like an extended interview with the attitude that you are interviewing them.

2 Document everything.

Yes you will find a lot of odd behavior from people trying to protect their position. If you find that you are in another “kindergarden” type situation, be pro-active and speakup. These little minefields are a way of life for some folks, it does not mean you have to play. If you represent a threat, real or imagined, you automatically become a target. You do not have to put up with that, if it is apparent that you are back in this muck have a face to face meeting with your direct report and the HR. Have your analysis of the situation in a written form to present, and be willing to quit on the spot.

Your primary responsibility is to yourself, not to a company. If you are in work situations that are damaging to your self-esteem it is time to find other employment.

Sometimes career / life coaching can help you. A website to look at http://www.joybroughton.com.

Fired too

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I too was fired recently. I am not in the IT tech field…but I was an Admin/Recep. I was managed daily by gossip, crud runs downhill. Only two times in the entire 6 years was I asked What really happened in an incident?
What is your side of the story? I too was managed by a woman. I finally was accused of no teamwork and causing low production in our office. Odd because I was only able to do what I was told to do. Sometimes doing without not understanding the entire project. Reviews were filled with mistakes and errors made by me collected for an entire year..never handled at the time. Always at the end of the review would be a devastating footnote…this group of people doesn’t like you. When you are in a professional atmosphere even when you pay attention to office politics if the target is set up to be you all you can do is try harder to do the job you were haphazardly trained to do and hold on to your virtues. If you have been given misinformation and you disobeyed some great tabu you couldn’t even say that you weren’t told correctly only that your supervisor thought the policy too mean so she couldn’t tell you. After a period of time you lose faith in the individual but not in your position, you just understand how it works better. As for an employee handbook that was no help because again the supervisor told you that it was subject to change often, translation at her whim. I was accused of calling HR everyday to handle my problems..I only called HR once in 6 years and to no avail.
I don’t know… I got my kid through high school health benefits and all. time to move on but the big change now is the companies with mismanagement are going to start to show….same with the inadequate customer service companies my sympathys to mary
regards,
sunniej

Don’t worry about this, just move on

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

The only thing you did wrong was to start working for the wrong company. There is some type of internal politics that you could not figure out, and this caused the problems.

I’ve seen similar situations in the past in other industries. It’s unfortunate when it happens.

One thing to take away from this is to improve your interview skills. In my last couple of interviews, I asked a lot of questions. When I was offered my current job (about seven years ago), I actually went to lunch with my supervisor on one day and some future coworkers on another, before I accepted the position. I’ve turned down positions because I didn’t like the atmosphere.

Don’t be afraid to make simple requests like this, most companies won’t mind. As a former supervisor, I didn’t always look for the best technician, I wanted someone that could work in this atmosphere and get along with other staff, as well as do the job.

Good Luck

Get a head hunter

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I have run into some of the same things and I do think there are nasty little things out there in the IT workforce. Jealousy, sexism even woman to woman all that.

Get with a professional head hunter and maybe a little talk therapy. It has helped me get through all sorts of nasties simply learning to stand up for myself WITH myself!

Doesn’t mean you should go into a job with a chip on your shoulder but more that once you have run problems on the job pass the incidences and your perceptions by a professional and perhaps some longterm friends, this way you can get some perspective on how you handle things (like confrontation) and how others percieve you.

I have it hard because I am over 6 feet tall, outgoing personality and I am not thin. Most of the people I have ever worked with have an immediate intimidation factor when I waltz into a room.

I may look intimidating but I more often walk away from a fight than get into one.

From an organizational behavior standpoint

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I’d have to tag your interviewer(s) with some of the blame for you being fired. I think one of the goals of the interview is to see if you will fit into the culture of their organization.

There are several questions that should have been asked during the interview that might have helped both you and management decide whether you were a match for the person they were looking for. How do you handle conflict? What are your feelings about whistleblowing? Where do you fit as far as personality type versus the company’s “personality”? How do you voice your dissatisfaction if things go wrong?

The important thing isn’t whether your former company learned from this experience are not. At your next interview, you may want to find out how the company views these issues, and perhaps decide for yourself if the company fits who you are. It’s a two-way street.

same feelings

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Though not IT much the same happend as a wharehouse person for celluar telephones. I could not leave my area, (put phone on record)
assist other sales people, help in the stock room,
go up front to deliver anything or get my departments mail. after about 30 days I was a nervious wreck. My immediate supervisor was female, the person I replaced was female, any changes I thought about making got changed back, I litterally could do nothing right. Finally,
when it came time to be fired…I ask that it be change to my decision,everyone was happy and ten tons of weight was of my shoulders. So put it behind you, and since you have written it down you will feel better. If not,then just forget the issue because what goes around will come around.

Been in your shoes…..kind of !!!

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

A few years ago I took a job with an ISP as a broadband specialist. My manager and I were on great terms. My work was awesum, according to my manager. The company had an opening in another division, we made specialized work stations, laptops and servers. I took the job so I could increase my knowledge. After a 1 1/2 years, I come in on a monday morning, the divisions manager calls me in and said, this is a quote, “I have been told to let you go”. When I asked why, the response was “I don’t know”? He even verified that my work was good, accurate, I was great with the customers and I had good knowledge and my work was completed on time.

I was fired on February 17th, 2002 and to this day I still do not know why.

A Lawsuit Will Straighten Them Out

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

Name both the boss, and his boss, and someone from HR in your suit… they were clearly treating you in a harassing manner (your work environment was unnecessarily difficult). Get a doctor or behavioral specialists to write affidavits for you.

HR is the most useless and incompetent organization, bar none, in the history of humanity. This insanity must stop.. NOW.

Teach them all a lesson.

Also: Do not mention this job in any future job applications, and do not put it in your resume. And when you land another job, do not talk about this one. Even though everyone wants to grouse about a past “job from hell”, for some reason it is held against you when you do talk about it.

And finally, absolutely none of this is one iota your fault. You obviously have very high personal integrity; while these other people are less than childishly immature. In future, if you have any dealings with any of these people… treat them like the immature children they are.

Best of luck! 🙂

They were the fearful ones

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

It sounds like they were indeed afraid of your heafty resume and background and saw you, and perhaps the guy before you, as a threat to their own job security. I had a similar thing happen to me when I was in different career. My supervisor picked on me for the dumbest reasons and gave me bad reviews giving me the lowest scores for things that I was never trained in or told were my responsibility. Fortunately I was able to move on to a better job in the same company before he could get rid of me. He stayed a supervisor and I moved on to become a manager. I’ve since left but last I heard he was still a mean angry old man and still a supervisor after 25 years at the same job. Don’t worry about them, just smile and move on to something better.

We see the problem with women in TECH in the open

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

We see the problem with women in TECH in the open.

Plain and simple, there ARE many women that are “catty” towards people for little or no reason.

This is not a sexist remark, just an observation.

Men don’t look at other men and say “what a b!tch!”, but women do. Someone you have NEVER seen or spoken to in your lives!

While there are MANY GREAT women out there, there are also many of this breed out there making it difficult for everyone around them. This was obviously the catty type. It is bad when that person is the one that has the bosses ear, which she obviously did. Nothing you could have done here from the moment you walked in the door.

This in no way is a reflection on their technical skills, this is strictly how they act towards people around them.

I have worked with a many of each over the last two decades, both in and out of tech. I currently work with one like that now who is threatened by my knowing more than her, having a better work ethic than her, but not trying to replace her. She made my life very difficult for the first few years, but because my boss SAW it, and recognized that I was the one just doing my job and doing it very well, SHE was talked to A FEW times.

I have tried many times to make her feel needed and respected. I involve her on as much or little of projects as she wishes. I consult with her. I even let her pick and choose which jobs she will take on, and just do the rest.

A possible point of contention was I got hired in making more than she was. Because she was a woman? Only a complete id10t would think that. I had much more experience and training, AND I turned down the job offer when I found out how much they paid. (the amount she was making). Because they needed me to fill that position to do a specific task they came back and offered ME 1/4 more. I took the job. THAT is why I make more than her. Because I wouldn’t take the job for what she was making, so they gave me more. Not sexist in the least, just me having a higher standard of what my skills are worth than she did.

Yes and No

In reply to We see the problem with women in TECH in the open

I am a female in the Tech field with just under 7 yrs experience. I have worked with both large and small firms in both private and Gov’t sectors.
I have been the only female on a team and I have been one of several.
I have to say that females are not the only ones who utilize covert tactics but they have been the majority of those I have encountered.
Maybe it’s just the female to female chemistry that’s so unpredictable.
I too was recently fired. After two years of exemplary performance and even a recent promotion and letter of recognition, I was let go “for performance reasons”.
I was employee number 3 and had been working and striving to achieve a supervisory role. I had initiated several reporting procedures, had developed an excellent repor with our client and our client’s client. I was seen as someone who knew the “who” as well as the “how”.
About a year ago my firm interviewed a female network engineer. They decided to hire her and our client then opted to have her then take on the role of supervisor of my team.
I took it hard at first but then let it go. After all, they must have had their reasons. I focused on my duties and let her have the tasks I started.
After she was able to get all she needed from me and choose her henchmen, I was then the official bump in the road.
She interjected herself into issues that were out of her “swimlane”. She began to micro-manage me in a way that I saw as an attempt to find something she could use to get me out.
Being that I work in an “At will” state, she succeeded.
I was upset and felt betrayed but in hindsight I see it as a blessing in disguise. Fate’s way of making sure I move on…and up.
I am up for an IT Manager position but I never would have been able to pursue it if I was still with my previous firm.
Crap happens…pick yourself up and dust yourself off.

You are not alone

In reply to Reeling from being FIRED. What just happened here?

I went through something freakishly similar except I wasn’t hired in…she was…and my reputation for hard work and ability to execute was pretty much what did me in. Freakishly similar down to the SOPs and the “do this,” then the “why did you do this, that wasn’t what i said to do”…when it was…sometimes in writing.

I’m convinced that the majority of IT Senior management is manic and insecure.

I found this website very interesting. You might recognize the behavior patterns.
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/hr/ohs/occstress/psychabuse/

I’m also convinced that many WOMEN don’t know how to handle themselves in the work place. I am a woman. I get along fine with everyone. But I have worked with several women who think work is a popularity contest and they will belittle the talented people because they didn’t get a chance to be the prettiest and most popular in high school. They don’t use their power to accomplish work, they use it to feed their personal egos, not realizing that once they step foot outside the company, they are still a big nobody.

Go work someplace that values you. Or, your other option is to play politics instead of executing your work at your next job. I know it seems highly ineffective and defeating to the purpose of being hired for a certain job, but often ass kissing is more important than executing work if you want to continue receiving a paycheck.

We live in a screwed up world. I’m contemplating leaving IT and selling slurpees at 7-11. That’s a job that is what it is.

Geek Girl

In reply to You are not alone

I think it is also the things we are selves permit to happen around us. I have been a woman in IT for a long time now. I have worked from the bottom up to the beginning management step. I don’t make it into management because I choose not to play politics. That is fine as long as I can add value and believe in the products/services of the company.

I have gotten along with most of the people I have worked with – male and female. I do run into problems now and again and usually it is due to personality conflicts or hidden agendas. I will first attempt a 1-on-1 and document that session. If that doesn’t work and I feel projects are in jeopardy then I will raise it up the chain. One thing I have learned is to stick to the facts and only the facts. Do not allow any emotion what so ever into the discussions.

For whatever reason, emotion (the type appropriate to an office) on the part of women is seen as weakness and in men as confidence.

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