IT Employment

General discussion


salary positions and overtime pay

By Lumbergh77 ·
I was offered a programming position which seems like a decent opportunity but it pays salary. I've heard friends who are in management complain about salary positions but not sure how this works in IT. My fear is that I would be working 60-70 hours a week for no extra overtime pay. What steps would I need to take to protect myself here so I I would not be obligated to donate half my free time to the company free of charge?

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When in doubt ask.

by JamesRL In reply to salary positions and over ...

In my company, salary people are paid overtime, unless they are managers. Some companies don't pay overtime but give you comp time.

I would expect that if they expect you to work 60 - 70 hours without overtime, they had better be paying you a very big salary.


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by BFilmFan In reply to salary positions and over ...

Get everything in writing and everything is negotiable.

Those are the only 2 rules on compensation and let no one tell you otherwise.

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On Negotiable

by TheChas In reply to Compensation

I have to disagree that everything is negotiable.

Many, many companies have strict compensation ranges for all but upper management positions.

You can negotiate your starting wage within the range. But that is about it.

Work rules and overtime expectation and compensation are usually spelled out in detail in the company policies.

Of all the places I have worked, only 2 had ANY form of overtime compensation for salaried workers.

One even had a very interesting "flex-time" policy.

You could start and end your workday any time you wanted. So long as you were at work from 8AM to 6PM each day.

At this same company, you had to take vacation time if you had to attend to any personal matter during the workday.

My advise, find out what the company policy on overtime requirements and compensation is.

Keep in mind, that policies can change at any time.


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Everything is negotiable

by faradhi In reply to On Negotiable

Even when a company has those stringent policies in regards to range.

Most of the companies you describe have different levels of a position. (Eg. Programmer 1, Programmer 2, etc.) Therefore, when a company says I cannot hire you as a Programmer 1 at $X, you can then ask to be hired at a higher level. IF you feel you are worth more then you probably should be able to handle the higher level.

Therefore, everything is negotiable.

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I still disagree

by TheChas In reply to Everything is negotiable

In the places I have worked, if a person applied for a programmer 1 position but met the qualifications for a programmer 2 posistion, the only way you could offer the person a programmer 2 posistion and pay would be "IF" you had a programeer 2 opening.

If you only have a programmer 1 opening to fill, the hiring manager has to spend a LOT of time and effort to get the posistion upgraded to programmer 2.

Unless the candidate looks to be a superstar, or the posistion has been open long enough to be causing delays to critical programs, the applicant has very little chance of a higher level posistion.

If you are upper level management, or it is a small (under 50 employees) company, you have more ability to negotiate.

Even when there have been shortages of qualified applicants for key posistions, I have yet to work for a corporation that will stretch their compensation policies.

It takes at least 6 months of not finding anyone, and a local compensation survey to change the rules.

In my experiance, large companies are more apt to lower skill and education requirements before they will increase compensation.

Every hiring process I have been involved with, the applicant has been given a take it or leave it offer. The ONLY thing that has been open to negotiation has been the starting date.

Of course, part of how the companies I worked for made this kind of policy work, is that we were NEVER allowed to even interview an applicant who was presently making more money than the posistion range.
In fact, HR summarily disposed of resumes and applications that did not include a compensation history.

One particualr situation stands out.

I once hired a tech that was very well qualified for the job and requested that he be offered a starting wage in the middle of the range.
Since he was presently making less than the bottom of our range, HR (and management) refused to offer him any more than the minimum for the posistion.

Combine that with stingy merrit increase policies, and it took more than 5 years to bring his compensation near the middle of the range.


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I wouldn't work for that company then.

by faradhi In reply to I still disagree

I have walked from jobs that I would have liked based on the fact that they could not meet my requirements.

Your right that many corporations are like that. However, companies like that tend to be poorly run. I have been in negotiations with large companies that have flexability to go up or down to fill the position. Those companies tend to be better run. IMO.

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Corporations are governed by finance

by frip In reply to I wouldn't work for that ...

I disagree that a company that limits the ability of an applicant to negotiate pay is poorly run. In fact it is wise financial management to keep strict limits in place. This is nothing new in large corporations and anyone joining one should understand it.
I agree though that the time to get your best salary hike is when you join since annual increases are generally low.

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Yes Corps have strict limits.

by faradhi In reply to Corporations are governed ...

However, they also have several levels of a position. For example, they advertise for a System Administrator 1 position. You apply and ask for more than a Sys Admin 1 position makes. A well run company will have the ability to offer you a Sys Admin 2 position to get you in at the price you want. I have worked for companies that do and do not have this flexibility built in. The ones who do not are usually not the best run. Why, because they let their best applicants go because they cannot pay them what they are worth.

Therefore, back to the original discussion, there is always room to negotiate and if there is not you probably don't want to work there.

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Everyone take notice

by A contractor In reply to I wouldn't work for that ...

Managers - this discussion should give you some ideas why you are having trouble staffing your IT positions and having to SETTLE for less qualified person.

Employees - this discussion should make you understand why companies are ooutsourcing basic IT jobs.

IRS agents - there are a lot of companies out there that are still using salaried positions to skirt the overtime and compensation laws when the position is really an hourly position. A degree should no longer make a position salaried like it did in the past.

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Fair Compensation...

by jgarcia102066 In reply to salary positions and over ...

You need to ask how many hours you are expected to work. Then you need to follow-up and call existing programmers in that company to ask how many hours they really work.

This should give you a basis for making your decision. It's ultimately up to you to decide if the compensation being offered is fair for the number of hours you will be expected to work.

On a side note, in Texas, programming jobs (as well as many others) are considered to be exempt from receiving any overtime pay. It would be worth your time to see how that works where you are.

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