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Salary requirements? (part 2)

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by basilisk 1 view

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Me: As you know, salaries aren't usually discussed until the job offer. Does this mean that you want to hire me? Them: Oh no, we just want to know what salary you need. If it is too high, I won't be able to pitch it to the rest of the company, so there is no point in interviewing you further.
Anyway, you get the idea: I try to refocus the conversation, and they hem and haw repeatedly until I give them a range.
Now, I know from salary surveys on the Net and from talking to people with similar jobs in the area that the range here is $35k to $45k, so that's what I have been giving out when pressed. But in every interview so far, the interviewer has ended the interview right then or been much less interested after that.
So my question to you all is: How can I handle the salary requirements question better so I can actually get to the meat of the interview? (And can I politely point out that if they are only willing to pay a secretarial-level salary, then they shouldn't waste my time and theirs advertising for a professional?)

15 replies

by tolkender

I have always stated that salary is negotioable, based on what is expected of the job. I try not to talk money, until the employer is offering me a position, then you can look at current ranges, benefits, etc..
Negotiable is the best term, dont use a set dollar amount.

by basilisk

Thanks for your answer, but as I stated in part one of my post, trying to say that my salary expectations would be based on the job responsibilities simply results in them reading the job description to me _again_ and asking _again_ for what salary I require. Let me clarify my question further: I'm trying not to talk about money until the position is offered; the point of my post is that the interviewer won't continue the interview _until_ I give a number or a range. How am I suppose to handle this situation?

by bill cassada

Get out of Iowa!! Just kidding... I've found in places where, as you indicated, there are not a lot of high-tech positions the interviewers are scared (financially) of a high-tech person. We are typically some of the most expensive personnel to recruit and retain, often requiring sign-on bonuses or benefits. You're kind of between a rock and a hard place. Personally, I would tell them upfront and to heck with 'em if they end the interview or insist that they talk position and responsibilities first and money later. This, of course, will depend greatly upon your current position and whether you can afford that approach. Just my thoughts...good luck in your search!

by basilisk

Thanks. It is somewhat comforting to at least have a reason _why_ they might be so insistent about dicussing salary upfront.

by terry.owens

Answering questions about salary is probably one of the hardest interview questions anyone faces. You want to be paid what you're worth, but are unsure what the company can afford or is willing to pay (especially if they don't put the information in their ad.) One thing that can help you is research. Find out what the average salary offers are in the area you are looking for employment. There are numerous internet sites that can provide that type of information. If you find that the average salary in the area you are looking is much lower than you would accept, you have slim hope of getting the salary you desire. You can also address the "cold shoulder" you get after offering a dollar figure by explaining the results of your researchon the average salaries for similar companies and positions in that area. If they are still uninterested, your best bet is to look elsewhere, as they are probably trying to get more than they are willing to pay for. Good luck in your search!

by basilisk

As I stated in my post, the $35k to $45k range is based on research. I already looked at several Internet sites and talked to several technical writers in the area to come up with that figure.
I guess I could bringing up my research in my nextinterview. Would the interviewer appreciate it? Does anyone think it would make a difference? One would hope, since they are offering a position, that they would have at least looked up salary information like I did.

by james_randy

There are two things you know, and one thing you don't know. You know what the range should be, and you know what you're willing to work for (or what you need). You don't know what they're willing or able to pay. Use the KNOWN information to your benefit, and don't worry about the unknown. You can't do anything about that anyway. TELL THEM WHAT YOU WANT TO EARN - PERIOD! However, you must be able to convince them that you're worth that much. And you are, right? Why? BECAUSE YOU CAN HELP THEM IMPROVE THEIR BOTTOM LINE! Your challenge is twofold. First, convince them you can. But if they hire you, you must be able to deliver. If all else fails, suggest that you might accept a lower salary for a probationary period so you can prove your real worth. If they agree then re-evaluate the salary in 3-6 months (or so) after they?ve been shown that you can indeed deliver on your promise. And I assume you?ve done enough homework on the company so that you can intelligently and specifically discuss those possibilities. I once had a chap who offered to work for nothing for a month so he could prove his worth to me. That was three years ago. He?s one of my best ? and highest paid ? employees. He got his foot in the door, and showed that he could really deliver. If you still can?t get near what you want, ask if the difference could be realized by working overtime or in incentives or bonuses. If still no, ask about doing contract work for them. That?s another bag of worms, but could open some doors. Good luck

by james_randy

P.S. To my answer: Don't fall into that trap of playing those back and forth games with the salary issue. Whatever you do or don't do in an interview, you don't want to give the impression that your primary focus is on collecting a big pay check. The real key is to do what you love, and do it the best you can. Indeed, do it better than anyone else. That's the impression you really want to leave, and that's the kind of person companies really look for - and pay well. And remember, the money will follow performance, not the other way around.

by james_randy

Another P.S. ? I interview people quite often, and intentionally leave the salary discussion until the end. I want to know as much about the person as possible, and I want him/her to know as much about us as well. If asked prematurely, I explain that we have a very broad range, depending on experience, knowledge of the job particulars, and perceived ability to contribute to the overall productivity ? AND PROFITABILITY ? of the company. A person who would require more training and supervision, for example, would be offered much less than someone who would require very little or none at all. Perhaps you can explain that thought process in your own way tailored for your own circumstance. I?ve found that most people know where they fall in that range. And as I stated earlier, if the only thing standing in the way of an employment agreement is the perceived ?place in that range?, I?m always willing to re-evaluate a person?s overall contributions - and adjust the salary accordingly - a short time after we hire him/her, and the person is given a chance to show he/she ?has the right stuff?. If you do accept a lower ?initial? salary, and you do indeed prove your worth, no company in their right mind would let you go, especially if theyare shown that you really do belong in the higher range. That?s a very small investment for you to make in your quest to find the best place ? and best salary - for you. Show that your primary focus will be on the successful growth and profitabilityof the company. What?s good for them will be good for you. Believe me, the money will follow success. And please avoid all the games and ?cute? cliches (peanuts only attract monkeys, et. al.). They?re VERY unprofessional, the very impression you DON?T want to leave. (Enough said. Best of luck to you in your future career choices.)

by basilisk

Thanks for such an in-depth answer. The problem is that I don't get a chance to discuss how I could contribute to their company or why I would be a good technical writer, because they insist on getting the salary range FIRST.
I'll consider the advice about taking low pay for a trial period. But I am afraid that I'll end up stuck at the low pay for a long while. Unlike networking or help desk or other IT areas, it would take more than 3-6 months to "prove (one's) real worth" as a technical writer. It may take a year or more for a manual or on-line help system I work on to get into an end-user's hands and start making a difference. From my background reading on the technical writing field, many companies take _years_, if ever, to realize that good software documentation has an effect on their bottom line.

by hectop

Since you know the range and that interviews aren't continuing after you mention it, you know it's not what the market will bear.

The surveys are usually accurate for large public companies (excluding banks) so unless you're going to one like that forget about it. Case in point, one salary survey says a project manager should receive $120K yet any company I've talked to won't go over $80 so what can you do?

Determine what you need to cover expenses and go it at a level just above. This is especially true if you're going at a smaller
firm. Good Luck.

by basilisk

Sorry, but I think that is a silly strategy for determining one's salary requirements. Expenses-wise, I've been living on $15k a year for the past 7 years, and could continue to do so if I didn't change my lifestyle - small apartment, old car, cheap clothes from outlet malls, little chance to save for the future. Does this mean I shouldn't ask for more than $15k when the average salary for beginning technical writers in this area is about $35k?
(I should mention I was in graduate schoolfor the past 7 years. My 20hr/week TA position meshed well with my classwork, which is why I was willing to live on $15k.)
Admit it, everyone, if your salary was based only on your _necessary_ expenses, you wouldn't be making nearly as much. "Fromeach according to his means, to each according to his needs"? Does anybody else out there agree that we should only ask for as much salary as we need to cover expenses?

by ddk

I just think that the companies that you are trying for are not worth it! I think it is quite unprofessional of a company to get to the salary question even before the technical interview. And normally, a professionally sound place should be satisfied with a "negotiable" answer. If these companies base their decision solely on salaries asked for rather than the calibre of the candidate, then they either don't have funds for long term sustenance or they have HR people who are of no use... so,look for better and reputed companies - who can give you your worth! "I would tell such a company that if you pay peanuts - you will end up with monkeys... so you can have your pick!"

by basilisk

Thanks for your answer. It is nice to hear that someone else has the same opinion that I do about the companies asking for salary upfront. Unfortunately, Iowa doesn't have a lot of high-tech companies to choose from, so I can't just direct my search to the better reputed ones. :-(

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