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June 19, 2005 at 6:05 pm #2174434
Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Lockedby freeozraelised · about 18 years, 10 months ago
As an IT Adminstrator I get a lot of staff members asking for advice on their home computers.
What will be a nice way to say “No” to free advice.
At present it is involving some staff members and a partner.
Thanks
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June 20, 2005 at 2:59 am #3173414
evil, nasty idea..
by jaqui · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
hand them the heaviest, thickest, most technically complex manual on computers you can lay your hands on.
then say, look it up youself.-
June 22, 2005 at 9:52 am #3174714
…then tell them…
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to evil, nasty idea..
…then tell them you read it and that’s why you charge $100/hour without guaranteeing squat…and GET IT.
P.S. You don’t take checks or CC. CASH Only, half up front.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:17 am #3178927
Helping Hands
by tmcal · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to …then tell them…
I can not believe that you are still beating this dead horse. Sounds to me like IT feels they are above or better than everyone else. The next time you need help or assistance with something hopefully your co-workers will not want to charge you for their help or advice.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:50 am #3178895
Obviously you’re not in IT.
by jmiguy · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
I get multiple co-workers stopping me in my tracks many times during a day to ask for free tech support. I get non-stop calls at home and at work from friends, family, aquaintances, and co-workers asking for free tech support.
I’ve spent thousands of dollars on schooling and I’ve spent many years of my life learning this trade.
For anyone to assume they should get free tech support just because they know me is extremely rude and un-thoughtful. These people need to be set straight right away, even if the same rude behavior has to be thrown right back at them.
IT workers are specialists and should be treated as such. If any of my co-workers can provide a valuable service or valuable advice, I’m more than happy to compensate them, and would never consider asking them for free help.
The next time you go to the doctor, why don’t you try and ask for some free medical help! Ask your doctor if he or she thinks he or she is above everyone else.
Doctors shouldn’t charge people either for giving medical advice in you world. Please get real!
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June 23, 2005 at 6:17 am #3178856
I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
by cswearingen · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
I agree with tmcal. this is a DEAD horse. Just because we went to school for our degrees and certificates does not make us superior to others.
I get lots of people asking for advice on computers and I give it to them. It’s ADVICE. Advice is NOT a service and should not be charged. My Dr. friend is also more than willing to give ADVICE to people around him.
When Dr. friend was asked to look at another friends arm after she fell of a swing set he advised that they go to the ER and have it x-rayed as he thought it might be a break. They went and he was right. Took less than 5 minutes of his time.
If people want service that’s another story as service entails more of your time and skills than advice. Be up front with them. Point them to sites, books and/or other PC service shops that can help them. If they still want you to fix it come up with either a fee schedule or a quid-pro-quo arrangement (I’ll fix your PC if you help paint my house, etc.).
Remember, there’s a difference between advice and giving free tech support.
Christopher
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They say I have ADD but they just don’t under.. HEY A CHICKEN! -
June 23, 2005 at 6:50 am #3178811
matter of frequency
by aglv01 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
When you are asked to provide advice two or three times a day, it’s OK, Matter of threshold. you don’t feel it cumbersome to provide advice. When it’s 10 to 15 or more times a day, when they invade your life, when they call at 9:30pm when you’re trying to sleep the kids…
Think again, maybe the horse is not as dead as you think!
Avner
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June 23, 2005 at 7:02 am #3178797
Frequency of the requests is a very good point
by cswearingen · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to matter of frequency
If you’re getting harranged (sp?) to the point of not being able to get your work done then it’s a problem. This point is very important.
But this horse is still dead. This topic has been brought up multiple times in past threads. The answers have always been the same “Do it if you’re a decent human being” and “Don’t do it if you’re getting exploited”.
Bottom line is that freeozraelised needs to figure out where his/her priorities lie and go from there.
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June 23, 2005 at 9:35 am #3177890
Agreed
by vltiii · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to matter of frequency
I agree with you, but each of us as individuals establish boundaries based on our personalities and actions. If people feel that they can do this as often as suggested there must be a reason behind it. The fact that the poster felt the need to post the question here indicates to me that he can’t or is afraid to establish his boundaries. The topic of this thread is not something that should require outside advice.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:02 pm #3176865
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by the admiral · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to matter of frequency
That is a matter of setting rules. Like with my company, if I get a call after working hours and I have to go in, I charge Holiday Rates because it is not a requirement for me to come in unless there is a mess. And If I have to think on my time about work or do work related things, then that is different.
As soon as we start talking shop or start brainstorming, I am on the clock and I charge accordingly.
If I have one of those people asking for one of those “gotta sec for a quickie question,” and it winds up being a three hour conversation, then we have a problem. And I tell all of my techs that if it takes more than 15 minutes, table it.
THe note has gone out to call the tech or put a call in on their company computers, and not to bother them on personal stuff, but the fact of the matter is that I can’t stop people from asking.
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June 23, 2005 at 9:49 pm #3176846
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by carrie.elsesser · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to matter of frequency
I do not mind giving advice or suggestions as I have asked for it in the past. You just have to know when to draw the line based on situation.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:56 am #3178807
Re: I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice …
by linuxinlibraries.com · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
> Remember, there’s a difference between advice and
> giving free tech support.That is correct. I don’t mind giving advice but it really pisses me off when someone wants me to go out of my way to come fix their computer for free. I even had someone complain that they had to pay for the parts needed for repairs. Talk about ungrateful!
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June 23, 2005 at 11:10 am #3177785
Talk about ungrateful
by netwerkingnut · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Re: I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice …
I agree with this point! Daily, I have people who come to me for advise…this I don’t mind, because they also know I’m a reseller too and will give them good prices on what they need. The ones that really get my goat are those who expect me to spend my entire day piecing their XP Home ed. back together and get them back up AO-Hell and then had the audasity to hym & haw when I charged them added expense to the parts that I ran down the store for (you know gas money!).
I, too, have spent thousands of dollars on my degrees and certifications and feel I have the right to set my boundaries between free advise and free work. Be bold in your stand, but don’t burn the bridge! Once you rot one apple, you might as well throw out the basket, because word will spread faster than gossip that you’re an ungrateful yahoo for not being willing to “help”. Trust me, I’ve been there!
JDS
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June 23, 2005 at 8:00 am #3178721
It’s more than advice
by oneshotstop · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
The problem is not the giving of advice. It is being interrupted constantly, both in and out of the office. Helping out a person is fine. But when you have 200 people wanting help, it gets to be too much. I can’t go to the bathroom without getting questioned about this or that. People need to understand that IT people don’t like to talk shop 24hrs a day.
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June 23, 2005 at 9:12 am #3177915
Totally agree
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to It’s more than advice
My boss summed it up like this:
“Lew, repeat after me…
NO.
This is the only word you need to know.
NO.
It’s my personal favorite word.
NO.
Get used to saying it.
NO.
You’ve got Servers to run and printers to install I can’t have you yakking about people’s spyware problems all day…
If you don’t cut them off, they’ll never leave you alone.” -
June 23, 2005 at 9:39 am #3177886
Advice can be a problem
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to It’s more than advice
I used to tell people ‘buy a Dell’ or buy an HP.
Nowadays their service for non-IT depts borders on the ludicrous (goto resellerratings.com or epinions.com and select dell, read revu’s)So even a quick advice of what to buy or do is bad if the person then gets ticked off at you.
And many people simply want you to verify their decision then go do what they want.
I tell them instead to goto review sites and read up on what they want to buy and the seller. As long as I can do it quickly without them taking a bunch of my time.
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June 23, 2005 at 3:47 pm #3176932
eXACTLY
by jshtcm213 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to It’s more than advice
Exactamundo… We do do not like to talk shop 24 hours a day. Right on, The worst part is, I have never recieved any kind of “real” gratitude from people that Ive fixed their technical problems. A little money would be nice, after all I am saving them money… (cheapskates)
Before, i use to love to fix peoples problems because I wanted to be able to troubleshoot anything. Now, Im not learning anything and its turning out to be hassle more than anything.
From now own, I will only help someone if they truly want to learn or if they are the kind of person that is thankful. Actually you know what, im just sick and tired of this free IT help. Its crap. If you got the internet, then use it. People dont realize how easy it is to learn and look up stuff? know what i mean
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June 23, 2005 at 8:45 am #3177958
I don’t tell people what I do
by lcave · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
When people ask what I do. I tell them anything, but that I’m in IT. I’ve been in this business for 25 years and after a 60-hour week, the last thing I want to do is work on a pc….including my own.
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June 23, 2005 at 9:10 am #3177917
You’re absolutely right Chris
by blueknight · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
I will give advice if I have the time. If I don’t have the time, I’ll make a quick suggestion as to what I’d start looking for/at and suggest they visit certain web sites or pick up a copy of a certain tech manual. I am never rude or short with people as most respondents to this question seem to be from their posts.
Back when I started in this field, everyone shared information, solutions etc. and offered suggestions to anyone who asked. It was that free exchange that made IT such a great field to be in. It still is, but not to the degree it was many years ago.
Many of the responses I’ve read in this thread explain why society has slid to the level it’s at today. Remember, you may need assistance yourself one day. “Give and it shall be given unto you.”
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June 23, 2005 at 11:06 am #3177792
Just Be Nice
by tech_guy1 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to You’re absolutely right Chris
I will usually help anyone out that asks. A couple a day isn’t a problem. Even multiple people asking a few questions I don’t mind about. It is the one person who will ask you a question in the hallway, then ask you a question in the aisle, while your in the restroom, and then barge in and interrupt you while you are in the middle of a conference call to tell you that the suggestions you made didn’t work and demand another option. When it becomes to affect your job and performance or your personal life, you just need to tell them no. Otherwise help them out. With the example above, I just straight up told the guy,”I have a job here and I have work to do. It is my first responsibility to make sure the systems are working correctly. If I have time I am willing to help, but a can’t stop what I am doing to help on personal matters.” Since then, he asks a couple questions here and there and sometimes will fire me an e-mail. You have to limit the questions at some point or people will take advantage of it.
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June 23, 2005 at 9:46 am #3177878
Take it to the shop…
by overcharge · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
My wife is a Family Nurse Practicioner, with her own practice. Between the two of us, we can’t shop in town without getting buttonholed by a patient, client, or whatever, continuously. Shopping at WallyWorld, even at 2AM, has gotten bad.
Best thing I can suggest: Tell your boss that the requests for help are getting out of hand, that you are creating a pt business, and that your comment will be, “Bring it to the shop.” If he agrees, it’s extra income, it shakes out the cheapskates, and it ends 50% of the interuptions.
Oh yeah, my wife’s reply is: I don’t have your chart, so I can’t verify history. You need to call and make an appointment.
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July 12, 2005 at 4:49 am #3184009
It is a matter of principle
by wmarr · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Take it to the shop…
Ok,since you are getting paid for IT services, and your co-workers want “free” services, they had better shop elsewheres.
Here is an example of one of my favourite responses. “Seems you might have a bug AKA virus of some sort. Can’t say for sure until I get your computer on my work bench. I usually charge (price per hour) but I can give you a break on that if it is something serious.)Just send your computer to me and I will gladly check it out.”
That usually works, and anyone willing to pay for your time will get you to fix it and pay you. The break?? No break, how do they know how long it will take to fix. I usually use my hourly rate as a benchmark, and then tell them what the total bill is once it is fixed. But try to be reasonable, after all they are your co-workers. -
June 23, 2005 at 11:24 am #3177772
Yada, Yada, Yada.
by thumper1 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
That’s how I feel sometimes. Family, friends and casual acquaintances all depend on me for computer help. I wish I could get buy with simple advice, unfortunately, I screwed up and started working on some of these systems.
The three absolute truths of computer repair:
1) He who touches is last, loses.
2) No good deed goes unpunished
3) The truth, while interesting and amusing, is totally irrelevant. Perception is everything.For number 1 ? the first time you touch the keyboard, that system becomes YOURS from then on. Every time it burps, you will get a call and be expected to fix it. This is caused by Number 2 and 3.
Recently, I was asked to install a CD rom drive on a relatives system. I said I don?t want to do that. When asked why, I said ?I don?t want to be married to your system. Please understand, if I didn?t have to eat or sleep, I could spend every waking nanosecond of my time working on computers,? Yea, it pissed him off.
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June 23, 2005 at 12:58 pm #3177694
AMEN!
by dawnmms · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
Very well put!
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June 23, 2005 at 2:13 pm #3176965
For those of us who don’t know how to say HELL NO!
by rayjeff · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
this goes to the posts about “I’m IT. have Dr. Friend…”. I have a co-worker I usually get tons of questions about something wrong with her laptop or even her office computer. Now, you would think that I should say “HELL NO!” all the time she comes to me. But, she has been helping me tremdously with her area. She’s a college professor with a Ph.D in Psychology and a licensed therpist. So, whenever I have a bad day, I can always go to her and talk about anything. Even a few of the professors/instructors in my own division have asked me for advice/tech support. I’m a sucker for just sharing my knowledge…I admit that. But, they will always do something nice for me like leave a thank you card for at my desk when I come in or something like that.
I don’t know. In order for people to not be so afraid of the little box, they have to be educated. Whether it’s taking a class or walking them through it by them asking for free tech support, it brings them one step closer to learning to solve “simple and easy” problems themselves.
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June 23, 2005 at 10:20 pm #3176840
Worst of both worlds
by edenton · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
I seem to get the worst of both worlds. I am an IT person of a large hospital.
I get calls from people at work asking if I can “come over” and fix a home pc, and I get calls at home from friends asking for medical advice.
My job requires me to have a fairly high level of understanding of medical care, and I am also a EMT. I don’t mind fixing my sisters computer or explaining a question from her doctor. I will always give emergency care if needed.
I don’t like the calls at 11:30 at night even thou the caller knows I was sleeping. No one calls their mechanic at 3:00am for a “quick question” and it would be unthinkable to call a lawyer at 4:30 in the morning on a Saturday to ask about a small point in a contract. If you do call your lawyer, you are charged accordingly.
Why am I called because your mouse is a little jumpy, or “I opened an email and now I think I have a virus!”? Turn off the #@!$% computer, go to sleep and call me at a normal time. Better yet, don”t call me, call Tech Support for your computer! You paid for a 3 year plan, USE IT!
Even worse are the sick kid calls. When I say to call their doctor, they say they don’t want to wake them up. Doctors are on call. I am not. -
June 24, 2005 at 1:06 am #3176818
advice is free, not support
by tony_moey · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
i agree with you 100%, people in open source movements give free advice all the time,that doesn’t mean they don’t want to charge, it’s just that it helps enhance their own knowledge. When your friend asks you to personally troubleshoot his computer, then it’s time to talk money.
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June 24, 2005 at 5:47 am #3176765
I have to agree advice is different than service…
by bill · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
I’ve read most of the replies in this chain and I have to agree that it can be a pain having everyone expect free service. The key here is that “advice” is different than “service”. One of the best replies put it best, advice is asking a friend or colleague a question with a brief answer. That’s fine and in most cases, the right thing to do.
If however this changes to making a house call, taking someone’s machine and performing a lengthy “disinfection” this is a totally different story. I know, I get sucked into this all the time. I’m an engineer and design and build systems for a living. The problem is that people think because you do that you would be happy to take care of their problems.
The solution is not complex and doesn’t have to make you come off as rude. First, decide if you really want to “just help” or start offering a paying service. If paying service is the way you want to go then be prepared to say “you know, this is going to take me hours to do. I would be happy to do this but my rate is $XXX”. I find that people that trust you would rather pay you than the Geek Squad or Dell or some other large organization.
That said, if you want to build a service based business you should be prepared to offer “some” free advice, especially to friends. Think of this as both goodwill and marketing.
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November 19, 2005 at 6:41 am #3117431
Yes…Exactly
by hermit47 · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to I have to agree advice is different than service…
I work locally for an electronics service that targets home, personal, and small business users bill@ expresses how I need to cope with family and friends perefectly.
Family and close frinds always ask for the “Quick solution” to problems. I am always placed in positions of evaluating the need to charge for time or count it as help “off the cuff” so to speak. The line I draw is verbal advice counts as an advertising tool, or hook to draw the client relationship. If I am asked to do the work I make sure people realize that I am on the clock at that point. Family gets a discounted rate, which creates the impression of a win win situation to them. I get to be the hero, they get the help they need at a discount.
Those who work in IT departments could help themselves by remembering that since their time and education is valuable, it is only right to expect fair pay for it. Doctors regularly give advice and sometimes sample medications to those in real need, knowing that when the real emergency comes, they will be the one called for the work to be done. So decide on a fair price structure, that either would appeal to the querents if you like helping; or discourage if you want some down time. Make it known to all, and if the boss thinks you are moonlighting? Explain exactly why it is necessary to do it.
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June 24, 2005 at 7:31 am #3176728
Dangerous Advice
by super_it_mom · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
Yes, but Doctors are sued every day for “free” advice they give. I wonder when that will trickle down to us………….
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July 2, 2005 at 4:27 am #3185497
Doubtful
by knightheart · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Dangerous Advice
I sincerely doubt you have anything to worry about. I can’t see someone standing in court and demanding damages because “I cain’t git no porn on AOL since he done touched my compudder.” Besides, you could always claim the advice wasn’t followed properly…there are more realistic things to worry about, so I wouldn’t bother being concerned over this.
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November 18, 2005 at 5:33 am #3132242
Advice is all they get!!
by wvcomment · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
I too have faced the issue of free tech support for home computers. I used to go to peoples home’s (some I considered very good friends) to fix problems or troubleshoot their computers, but it soon got to the point were it was expected. Anytime someone had a problem they just dumped it on me. I got lots of invitations for dinner but always at a price. Finally I stopped. People asked and I told them flat out NO!! I told them why.. because I felt I was being taken advantage of.
Now I freely give advice, people ask questions, I will try to get answers, but I will not touch their home computers. They ask my opinion on systems to purchase, or what to do if they have a virus.
It has taken time but now my relationship with friends and co-workers is much better. Funny though how those invitations for dinner stopped coming.. -
January 14, 2006 at 11:26 am #3077499
So right you are Christopher!
by nttn · about 18 years, 3 months ago
In reply to I’m IT, I have a Dr. for a friend. We both give ‘free’ advice (to a point)
I am new to the .Net world, and the biggest problem I faced at the beginning was finding out how to get my hands on the learning material I needed to learn the basics.
I found this site by accident and have been telling all my friends about it, and they have thanked me for the advice.
Didn’t cost me anything to give it, but the thank you reward was a great feeling.
Jerome
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June 23, 2005 at 6:37 am #3178826
agree to a point
by jb1 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
I can relate if it gets out of hand as it appears it has with you. But I think this constant comparison of IT to MDs is getting out of hand. We’re talking the difference of telling someone they need to get a CD cleaner and try that to a Dr. giving out medical advice that could adversely affect someone’s health. Big difference there. On the flip side of that, the medical profession is getting pretty out of hand in it’s own right. Health ins. costs, medicine and doctors fees are way out of the ballpark. It’s everyone trying to make as much money off everyone else as they can and exploiting critical areas of life to do so.
Let’s keep IT on one side of the fence, and the medical industry on the other.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:11 am #3178787
My 2 cents
by alacrity · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to agree to a point
Here’s how I handle this problem. When someone comes up to me and says something like “I have this problem at home. I keep getting pop-ups” I’ll quickly describe the steps I take to find out what is causing the problem, tell them where in the registry the problem is hiding, and how I would remove the offending program. When they ask (and they always do) “How do I edit the registry” I tell them “This is how I make my living. I told you what I would do. If I help you do it it becomes something I have to charge for”
I have also used “This is what I do for a living. You wouldn’t {insert their profession here} Would you?”
On some small number of people I have to fall back to “Free advice: It’s worth what you pay for it” followed by “I’ll be happy to make an appointment”Clarification: Family is ALWAYS free but even my best friends get a bill if it’s for their business computer. Simple, One paragraph advice is always free, even to business customers
Just my free advice (which is worth what you pay for…)
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June 23, 2005 at 9:41 am #3177885
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by cdplayer · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to My 2 cents
I agree with you Alacrity!
Firing off some advice is no sweat. It’s only when they want you to perform the job for free is where I have a problem.Example:
I have a good friend that I help from time to time with his computer. This is OK I help him with his computer he helps me with upgrades that I am doing in my house. It’s a fair trade.One day I received an email from one of his neighbors asking me how to get rid of a virus for a friend of his!!
I was polite and give him a link that provides an overview of how to remove the virus. I stated if his friend needed additional assistance I would be happy to help her. My fee is ….
I never got another call from him. You have to draw the line somewhere. If not I would be the computer person for a bunch of folks that are not even my neighbors!
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July 12, 2005 at 10:06 am #3183854
Grace and Diplomacy
by unix_guy · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to My 2 cents
Well done, Alacrity!
Yours is the best, most professional approach I have seen.
New problem: how do you address emergencies (I have a virus and need it eliminated now)? Do you explain that there will be a charge, or do you negotiate later? -
June 23, 2005 at 7:28 am #3178759
IT and MD are related
by misterdufus · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to agree to a point
Actually IT and Medicine are very related. They are logical systems that run dependent of interrelated services. A diagnosis and a plan of treatment has to be applied to each individual situation. A medical degree is simply a degree, not a grade of how smart the person is. There are plenty of moron doctors, and moron IT “professionals” who bill you to rattle off advice they don’t really understand, or comprehend themselves. A doctor provides no “guarantee”, nor does an IT pro, but see how long either of them is in their field, or maintain a client list, if they are nutjobs.
One prescription (or piece of advice) can adversely react with stupidity (drinking alcohol or drinking water around the computer), and someone ends up spending a week in the hospital, or two weeks trying to reconfigure their computer, or regain lost data. Your “advice” that ended up costing them a lot of time, because you underestimated their level of intelligence or common sense.
By the way, I don’t think this discussion was how to deal with questions from friends, but “staff members” Your friends should be the ones that you have something in common with, not someone trying to exploit your time.
SOLUTION:
Quote them your price, or refer them to a professional, just as the other person commented about a doctor sending someone to a professional at the hospital because their arm was hurting. He did NOT attempt to treat the person, or offer free advice to make a “friend”, he told them to talk to a specialist.
Doctors fees and IT fees are not “way out of the ballpark”. They are at the rate that a specialist in their field should be paid. That is how they got that way. Can’t afford it? Then go see a doctor from Puerto Rico, or an IT tech from National University or Microskills. -
July 6, 2005 at 1:38 pm #3183019
Reality
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to IT and MD are related
You’re making a stretch with your analogy between ITs and Drs. Ultimately, the loss of time or data because of bad IT advice pales in comparison to loss of life and limb because of bad medical advice. Drs. are required to carry malpractice insurance for a reason. I’m not aware of any such requirement to ensure compensation because of a “moron” IT. Protections may be provided for in the contract, but that’s a negotiation issue-not required by law.
I would like to think that some of our relationships at work develop beyond the professional. Even when they don’t I would think that we would want to at least maintain a professional relationship. My guess is that anyone that ask for advice at work that is not work related does so because they have a certain level of comfort in doing so (rationally speaking). In the end it doesn’t really matter. As someone else posted (or maybe it was me), I don’t know why this question was even posted. The poster (and any of us) have free will to give the advice or not. As evidenced by the range of responses, all of us have a level that we’re comfortable with. Some are more willing to help out their fellow man than others without expecting anything in return. Once the situation gets outside of our level of comfort we can shut it down. If the poster is afraid to do so, then he will have to deal with the constant request without complaint.
Lastly, why do you imply that someone who received their education at National University is less qualified than anyone else? I don’t know much about Microskills, but their commercials and the fact that their name implies a connection with Microsoft (in my opinion) does make me somewhat leary.
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July 6, 2005 at 10:39 pm #3182872
Reply to vltiii’s “Reality” post
by matt.werner · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to IT and MD are related
Several of my family members are physicians. You are incorrect in stating that malpractice insurance is required. It is not. In fact, for some high risk procedures, the coverages provided are not enough relative to the cost of premiums and doctors either self insure or cease to perform the risky procedure. For example, many OB/GYN’s no longer deliver babies due to the high cost of malpractice insurance.
Furthermore, IT and Medicine are indeed similar. Both require complex diagnosis and prescription to solve technical problems. Granted, computer systems mistakes generally do not involve life or limb (although some do, e.g. medical devices). However, IT negligence can cost thousands of dollars (or more) in damages and it is prudent for IT service providers to carry insurance to cover this.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:49 am #3178812
No Man Is an Island
by benoddo53 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
Wow! you must be a recluse, or a hermit. Ever hear of bartering? Ever have a friend do you a favor? Ever do a favor for a friend? Sounds like you haven’t. Lighten up! Money isn’t everyting. The drive for money shouldn’t cost you valuable interpersonal relationships.
I do for friends, they do for me. Use your skills to network and don’t be afraid to barter. You will be better off.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:37 am #3178751
You’re right no man is an island….
by unclerob · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to No Man Is an Island
Unless he’s surrounded by water on all sides.
Seriously though, I agree with your comments.
People need to lighten up a little and if you’re really that busy and can’t help them, be honest and tell them you don’t have time right now and you will have to talk with them later on their pc problems. As far as compensation, don’t expect any, their friends and favors get returned, that’s how it works and even if they don’t get it returned, be happy that you can help out a friend.Personally if someone at work has a problem with their home pc, even if they’re not really that close to me, more of an acquaintance than a friend, I still tell them to bring the box in to work sans cables, mouse or kb and I let them know that there are no guarantees on what the results will be and how long it will take to fix if it’s fixable. I work on the boxes during my lunch or coffee breaks or during some O.T. after work, I don’t ever bring the stuff home with me. When it’s done, they pick up their own pc and bring it home themselves and I’ve always rec’d something for my efforts without asking, never cash but a case of beer or a few bottles of wine, or a nice lunch or supper has always been the result. Is this profitable, not really but in the end you helped someone and they appreciated it and you probably moved up a few rungs on someone’s respect ladder, you do that enough times for quite a few different people and word gets around and you’ll notice the work environment is more pleasant and people treat you differently with class & respect instead of half glances and snotty noses, you’ll also find that they’ll offer you help when you may need it and you’ll even take advantage of that opportunity too. It’s not just about making money (which is important, we all have to pay bills) but it’s about being a better human being which should be it’s own reward.
Seriously, you watch CNN everyday and all the bad stuff that happens to people on this planet, I really believe that it’s human nature to destroy ourselves, everything is me, me, me. Isn’t anyone getting tired of this routine yet? And no I haven’t joined the peace corps yet but it does get you thinking about how much you’re doing (or not doing) to make this world a better place.
My sermon on the mount is over…..
Who’s N E X T!!!! -
June 23, 2005 at 8:19 am #3177990
Props to Uncle Rob
by r_fernandez · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to You’re right no man is an island….
… and everyone else here who understands that this is not about payment for services. If people know a car guy, they ask him questions because they respect his opinion and they recognise his training and knowledge. If people are asking YOU for advice, this is one way of saying “I respect your opinion on this, maybe you know something I don’t.”
If you choose not to share your knowledge, perhaps you have bigger issues, like insecurity, loss of job, arrogance. To quote George on Seinfeld, “God forbid we disturb the precious genius!” If you are truly too busy to answer, offer to talk over lunch – they might even buy!
On the other hand, if you understand that you have an opportunity to build friendships and professional contacts, and you are willing to barter or just receive good karma, you can take 5 minutes and make yourself look real good to others.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:43 am #3177960
Helping – No man is an Island
by noortech · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to You’re right no man is an island….
I agree with UncleRob thoroughly. Knowledge is to be shared. You have one Life. What do you want to be remembered as? Greedy or Kind.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:09 am #3177788
Utopia?
by bad2thebone · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to You’re right no man is an island….
In a perfect world other people will respect you and thank you for what you do. In the real I.T. world they take advantage of you, and abuse you to no end if you let them. I have done a lot of freebie support over the years, and very seldom does someone even thank me much less buy me dinner. Now my time (or lack of free time) is valuable and I do charge for work performed. Advice is free if it doesn’t take too much of my time and I can answer it in 5 minutes or less until that person abuses me. I am not everyone’s personal PC guru. I will tell them nicely that they need to call tech support (if the PC is still under warranty) or bring it in and I will take a look at it for a fee. I will barter, and I don’t mind doing that but almost everytime I live up to my end of the bargain by fixing their PC(s) but I don’t get a full return on my investment. That’s why I prefer cash.
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July 6, 2005 at 2:12 pm #3182998
Yeah
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to You’re right no man is an island….
I really like your approach to this issue. One aspect that has been completely overlooked by those who don’t want to help, or only want to help if there is something (material) to be gained, is the networking potential from helping out someone even when you don’t know them very well. None of us know where we will be tomorrow and that person we provided a little help to today may have the in on that dream job we’ll be looking for tomorrow. The latest statistics that I read indicate 80 percent of hires, get hired because they knew someone. The other 20 percent come in on the blind. Additionally, what about appraisal time? What marks should they get on the issue of team building or contributing to the team? Build bridges don’t burn them.
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July 22, 2005 at 12:47 pm #3185743
I’m next
by tlconsultants · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to You’re right no man is an island….
You know that’s all well and good. Until… the boss gets wind that your doing outside work at HIS EMPLOY, or that co-worker returns a gazillion times because, he/she cannot/refuses to learn the proper techniques of using a computer. Or my very favorite, there is always one individual that FINDS an old a@# computer and wants to re-vamp it, by adding FOUND spare parts or desiring to install old antiquated software. This is the person we ALL dread… the cheapskate, the swindler, the aggrevatingly over zealous self-taught computer tech. When he/she can’t figure it out, they warm up to you, siting how great you are, how much you know, that your the “Computer Guru”. I tell them, buy a new one, it’s cheaper; while there pick up a nice anti-virus and spyware package and keep it up-to-date.
Now on the other hand a 5 minute lesson, or advice is fine, no matter who you are. It’s okay to be kind, just don’t allow ANYONE to use you.
Do’ll do fine, it does get easier to say no.
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July 22, 2005 at 3:17 pm #3185653
Response to tlconsultant
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to No Man Is an Island
You said “You know that’s all well and good. Until… the boss gets wind that your doing outside work at HIS EMPLOY, or that co-worker returns a gazillion times because, he/she cannot/refuses to learn the proper techniques of using a computer. Or my very favorite, there is always one individual that FINDS an old a@# computer and wants to re-vamp it, by adding FOUND spare parts or desiring to install old antiquated software. This is the person we ALL dread… the cheapskate, the swindler, the aggrevatingly over zealous self-taught computer tech. When he/she can’t figure it out, they warm up to you, siting how great you are, how much you know, that your the “Computer Guru”. I tell them, buy a new one, it’s cheaper; while there pick up a nice anti-virus and spyware package and keep it up-to-date.
Now on the other hand a 5 minute lesson, or advice is fine, no matter who you are. It’s okay to be kind, just don’t allow ANYONE to use you.
Do’ll do fine, it does get easier to say no.”
Let’s not take this to the level of being absurd. Of course this has to be tempered with professional requirements and what we’re actually being paid for. My response was based on the ability and availability to actually accomplish the assistance.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:10 am #3178789
Agreed
by keyguy13 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
And yes, tmcal, we are obviously above you in computer knowledge or you wouldn’t be asking for advice. But here’s the thing, there is nothing wrong with people ASKING for free advice. All you do id say “no”. Generally when I ask someone to help me, they will give one of two answers; yes or no. Why does saying no seem to be such a big deal with people? If they were demanding that you help them, then it wouldn’t be a question would it? I think that is the problem. People think that someone asking a question is demanding something and that isn’t the case. Just say “no”. You don’t need a reason. You don’t have to feel guilty. Just say “no”. What else is there to discuss about this?
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June 23, 2005 at 8:13 am #3177995
Hmmmmm….could be serious…..
by is girl · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Agreed
Doctors, lawyers, and computer people always get asked for advice partly because people assume that you love to talk shop in your down time. When a doc or lawyer is asked for professional advice at a cocktail party, they usually say “Hmmm….sounds like it could be serious….” then, they invite the person to make an appt or they offer to recommend someone who might be able to help.
In IT, the problem can be handled the same way. Offer a simple suggestion – like installing service packs, etc – then suggest they get professional help if that doesn’t fix it. Recommend someone who is good and who is “reasonable”. If they still want free help, tell them you are very busy but might be able to set aside some time for them in …..say….about two weeks to take a look at it.
That should do it….
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June 23, 2005 at 9:32 am #3177891
I do the same
by gregsugg · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Hmmmmm….could be serious…..
I run into the same problem, I want to help. But it got to the point with me that I had family, friends, friends of friends, etc coming to me for free advice. It finally was taking so much time out of every day that the phone would ring until 10pm at night, and I couldn’t even sit down to eat with my family for the phone ringing. I finally took the same approach as IS Girl; I give them about 2 minutes of an honest answer that is their best bet to solve the problem. Then if that doesn’t do it; I tell them it sounds too complicated to diagnose without physically looking at the machine. I suggest they call the office and schedule an appointment to bring it by; so that we’ll have all out “diagnostic tools and equipment” available to find out what’s wrong. Sometimes they do just that and it becomes a paying customer; and sometimes you hear nothing else about it. Only exception is immediate family and my Church (the Church itself, not all the members); they always get my time free.
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June 18, 2007 at 12:47 pm #2597510
Hmmm. Are you really living up to the code?
by wadeedward · about 16 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Hmmmmm….could be serious…..
I wonder if you were there when the “professional geeks” thought they had screwed the world out of all possible computer software formats by “patent”. If you were, then you would recall that the vast majority of software comes from the one programming scheme that was not patented. So, in all likelihood your job stems from that single unprofessional, donating his intellectual property to you despite the fact that it was the very last and programming scheme to be thought up in his day and thus the most valuable of all. Who are you, any of you, to deny your expertise, an expertise given to you freely, as if you owed “the geek guild” your livelihood. After all, they had consistantly denied persons like yourself any possibility of a livelihood derived from code, by keeping their code secret!
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June 23, 2005 at 7:40 am #3178748
moderation
by dalin · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
my theory of moderation seems to apply here as well. i agree with it being rude to repetitively ask personal computer questions. i’m an IT manager but mostly write software/code. i used to do mostly hardware repairs, upgrades, and maintenance so i know it pretty well. it does seem like some days my job extends into parties, weddings, going out to dinner, movies, etc. i know a doctor where we have an understanding that we give each other free professional advice. that’s easy.
the hard part is, what do you do when your girlfriend, parents, brother, sister, best friend, or close friend asks for advice. what are you going to do, invoice your mother? maybe she’ll invoice you for all the things she’s bought you throughout your life? -
June 23, 2005 at 7:57 am #3178731
“I’m kinda busy”
by deritchie · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
The simplest way to handle this is tell people that you don’t have a lot of time to give away free support, and you make your living doing this.
And your hourly rate, paid in advance.
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June 23, 2005 at 2:52 pm #3176954
Say yes, but….
by mail · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to “I’m kinda busy”
This works for me. Say yes, but then say that it will take a few days to get back because of pressure of work/priorities. I expect that is true. You’ll find that the requests will fall away as they are always urgent and often not really necessary. this way minimum ffence is caused.
Greg -
June 23, 2005 at 7:58 am #3178729
Here’s a novel idea
by sbanford · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
I get the same thing. Why not just give them the advise and be done with it?
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June 23, 2005 at 8:39 am #3177967
But when does it end?
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Here’s a novel idea
When does it end?
It’s the same principle as why you should charge by the hour and not by the job.
The “client” is always trying to bring in work that’s not in the scope of the original project.
If you give them free advice, they expect more, like the guy you politely try to explain that you couldn’t possibly diagnose his machine in a 5 min conversation without actually seeing it, so he asks if he can bring it in tomorrow and put it on your desk.
NO.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:32 am #3177978
No kidding…
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
I have LOST thousands of dollars and flushed days and days of REAL time down the can on “non-revenue generating clients”.
I took myself and my family temporarily in the poorhouse and made them sacrifice so I could change careers…
So after giving out free services and getting burnt time after time I’m NOT supposed to have learned my lesson?
Giving free advice = “How to LOSE friends and piss off family members”
I am no longer ANYONE’S IT Slave. Except maybe my wife’s…but she’s the one exception.
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June 23, 2005 at 9:01 am #3177931
no dead horse here
by contact · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to No kidding…
A bit strong, but I understand you point. It is true that you can feel like being everyone’s IT slave. This is why this thread is certainly no dead horse.
You can see RIGHT HERE the confusion at the heart of the problem : some talk about advice, some about free IT work.
See that medic that gave advice so a broken arm could get fixed ? He didn’t do the job at all. Nor would he have given advice on a heart attack or cancer problem. (I hope so 🙂
Same with the mechanic : he will not REPAIR your car for free, only presume the battery’s dead, whatever.
For IT’s, giving advice is part of the actual work : diagnosing IS getting the job done.
Samples of good advices :
– try to write the problem down and send it to me
– Try system restore
– Install security programs
– Google it.The rest is …. getting the job done.
Working for customers, I am constantly -everyday, every hour- asked for something I didn’t came for. I used to be gentle and nice, pausing when needed and fixing what I could. It turned into a nightmare and it happened that I spent weeks when days could have been enough. Changing the price was not an option.
Having friends like anyone, I fell into this trap of fixing or setting up their box during week end or evenings. I ended up losing them as friends, as they often started to harass me with their problems, obviously thinking I was responsible for them. I must say I never got a single bottle of wine in return. Sad, but true.
No I try to give short advices or ask for detailed informations. Otherwise, my friends KNOW that I hate it when they ask me to work for free : they have their own IT, pay for it or… find a new IT friend. Which happens to be good trade.
I know some look at me as arrogant. I swear I am not, but I accept this burden: if you look at me as someone feeling superior, you certainly don’t need me as your friend, do you ?
Now if I was working as IT for a company, I would definitely fix my collegue’s boxes: why would I get paid for, otherwise ?
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June 23, 2005 at 10:41 am #3177820
But it’s not arrogance…
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to no dead horse here
At work I know it comes off as arrogance. But it’s not.
People don’t seem to realize (so I make a point to tell them) how many OTHER people are also asking for free advice. You have to be extremely careful that advice doesn’t turn into work.
Example:
Short description of the problem and you think “A hah! Easy! Just install the drivers for your new sound card you ineptly installed yourself because you’re a cheapskate! Simple!”“Ok, how do I do that?”
A 3 min conversation just turned into a 45 min tutorial on driver installation and the risk that said l-user is going to bork it up irregardless and… guess what? It’s YOUR fault.
You’re a “nice guy” and don’t want any harsh feelings so guess what you’re doing this weekend? Is your wife p/o’ed? She should be!
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June 23, 2005 at 11:46 am #3177753
Not their home PCs
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to no dead horse here
unless your boss wanted you to do this on company time, IT depts, esp. PC dept are usually overloaded.
What other work that is actually for the company will you sacrifice to fix their home PCs? A
nd if something goes wrong with it while you are fixing it, are you willing to be responsible when it was failing unrelated to you, such as a HD going bad or bad MB?
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July 25, 2005 at 2:15 pm #3193732
Semantics
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to no dead horse here
Now you’re playing semantics. I think most everyone here knows what is meant/intended by use of the word advice. Giving a literal definition doesn’t change that in the least.
As for the people that you choose to call friend, I’m sorry to hear that. Anyone that I would call friend would never put me in such a position, and when they do ask for advice, they (not me) usually qualify it with when you get a chance, can you…???
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July 25, 2005 at 2:09 pm #3193735
Free… Not Really
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to No kidding…
Well, at least you acknowledge that you are responsible. I support giving out free advice when appropriate, but I think that boundaries have to be established even when dealing with friends and family. This is even more crucial if you’re running your own business, and this is your source of income. I also believe that friends/family and business/money don’t mix very well. If your business went under because of friends and family, I suspect there were some other issues at play here.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:49 am #3177948
Try asking a carpenter or plumber for a trade!
by dgood · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
This goes beyond asking for advice! I have been asked to “Format C:” by a neighbor and to rebuild a computer and then asked, “Can I buy you a 6 pack for your trouble?” For some reason, people seem to think that what we do is a hobby and we’d be happy to do it for free.
Try asking someone in the “Trades” to swap you hour for hour, their time for yours and see what reaction you get. HMmmmmm…. I think a computer rebuild is worth a new toilet installation or taping up some drywall.
Maybe that’s the solution…. If you can get that doctor to trade some open heart surgery for a new network, you’re on the right track.
Good Luck
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June 23, 2005 at 10:18 am #3177850
I DID! Check this out!
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Try asking a carpenter or plumber for a trade!
I know a carpenter. He’s one I can’t say no to (non-revenue generating client a.k.a. my brother)
I have to fix his damnable fat-fingering every time I go over there AND put up with his wife (a baker) insisting that she knows more about how email passwords work than I do…
He owes me (still):
Fixing a broken chair.
Simple table that would take me 10min if I had my own Skillsaw.
He build me a small shelf, but never completed it.
A vacu-form box (looks easy enough, but he’s got the tools and I don’t)I have ANOTHER carpenter (not my bro this time) who owes me…
The same chair fix
The same simple tabletopYes, I couldn’t get one or the other to finish the carpentry I needed done, so I wound up doing “free” work for two different carpenters….and I still need carpentry work…
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July 2, 2005 at 6:11 am #3185465
And?
by knightheart · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to I DID! Check this out!
If you’re still fixing his system after he’s screwed you out of things he said he’d do for you, you may as well tatoo “sucker” on your forehead and kiss his feet thanking him for giving you the opportunity to suck up to him.
If his wife thinks she knows more, let her fix the problem. If they won’t finish the work they agreed to do for you, refuse to fix their problems. If you want to keep being a doormat, go ahead, but don’t complain about it.
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June 23, 2005 at 9:30 am #3177895
Absurd
by vltiii · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
It’s that specialist mentality that have so many IT professionals coming off as Prima Donnas. Being a specialist (I’m not sure that even applies here) does not automatically earn anyone any special treatment. Whatever respect comes with the position is earned-not commanded. There are many professionals in all fields that require specialized training that don’t mind helping out “family, friends (you must be a really wonder person to have as a family member or friend” and some acquantances. If these people are calling you at work it’s because you’ve allowed it and/or placed yourself in that position. My family and friends understand professional work ethics and would never consider doing such a thing. Your analogy about the Doctor is not realistic and a very weak attempt to shore up your position. If one goes to a Doctor it’s with the understanding that there will be a cost associated with the visit. On the other hand no rational person would expect the Doctor to realize that a family member or friend needs medical attention, but not say anything because they’re expecting to be paid for the advice. Please get real!
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June 23, 2005 at 11:28 am #3177768
I agree 100%
by redline · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
If I am at work, and am asked for advice about home computers, I tell the person that I am being paid by the company to work on their problems and do not feel comfortable talking about non-company problems. If ai am not at work, I say, “Well, that is my work, what I do for a living. I am not at work, now.”
Then, I recommend a friend of mine who does good work for a reasonable price.
There is an exception to this rule, however. When my children call me, I always help. But then, they will usually feed me!
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June 23, 2005 at 11:34 am #3177763
I feel obligated…
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I agree 100%
I feel obligated to fix the wife’s laptop and the kid’s desktop.
The wife feeds me and washes my clothes, but the lazy kid does nothing.
I did build the machines after all…
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June 23, 2005 at 4:03 pm #3176926
Same in any field
by darrins · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
I am in school for IT and currently work at a car dealership repairing cars. The field is becoming more technical everyday. I will offer advice when asked, but have strict poicy; No side work. This is my job and I don’t do it for fun!! People think nothing of asking me to stay late and repair their car for free. I haven’t done side work in years, but I answer questions all day.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:35 pm #3176906
A unique way to say “NO”
by barkleyc · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
I used to be a Physical Therapist. I am also an avid skiier. Nearly every time I told someone what I did they would start in on their list of aches and pains and “what should I do about this?” I cannot tell you how tedious that got obver the years!
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June 23, 2005 at 4:39 pm #3176905
A unique way to say “NO”
by barkleyc · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
I used to be a Physical Therapist. I am also an avid skiier. Nearly every time I told someone what I did for a living they would start in on their list of aches and pains and “what should I do about this?” I cannot tell you how tedious that got over the years!
One fine day I was riding up a 4 person chair lift and the person next to me asked the person on his right what he did for a living. The guy said, “I’m a physician.” You can guess what came next; a list of several complaints and a “what should I do about this?” The doctor simply stated, “I’m sorry, I’m not working today.” Silence ensued and I could barely keep from bursting out in hilarious laughter. Later I skiied up to the doc and thanked him. Told him what I did and how long I haad meen haveing to cope with the same crap. We skiied together the rest of the day and had a great time! -
June 23, 2005 at 6:49 pm #3176884
Couldn’t agree more
by uwe.packer · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
I 100% agree with you. When I make a “housecall” some people expect my expertice for free as I am “just” sitting at the keyboard and do not hammer in nails and stuff. Yet they would not think twice paying $60 or more for a tradesmen to just show up at their front door. And we are not even talking about any charges to fix a problem.
I have learned my “trade” and expect to get compensated for the time and money I have spend becomming an expert.
If someone needs free advise let them go to backyard experts and get what they pay for.
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June 24, 2005 at 7:57 am #3176721
I can’t believe this thread
by cybergoyle · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
I also receive many requests for advice and tech support from friends, family, co-workers, acquaintances, and occasionally total strangers that I meet when they learn my occupation. I’ve met my share of IT workers, and they are many so-called ‘freelance’ hired guns anywhere you look. Most aren’t really that talented at all; they merely possess some basic skills.
That said, getting good advice isn’t as easy for the tech-challenged individual. Not only do they have a problem to solve without the first clue how to find an answer (and I’ve never read any comprehensive manual that could teach me to merely remove and prevent spyware from infesting a PC), they cannot discern good advice from bad.
As a skilled expert, you should feel priviledged that people trust your advice enough to even ask – hasn’t everyone dropped a name or called up a buddy to ask for help at some time or another?
Consider the alternative; no one ever asks you for advice or assistance. How would you feel if you offered to help someone and were met with the reply ‘thanks, but I already know someone that knows what they are doing….’
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November 19, 2005 at 8:08 am #3117417
Privileged? Dont say <_<
by kurdon · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to I can’t believe this thread
First, we shouldn’t feel ‘privileged’ because that is a state of ‘aboveness’in disguise, and that’s not the point but the same as I read in posts before, it depends ALOT in the kind of people asking for yout help.
When you work in an environment where you deal with alot of people, yo can esaily say if:
1. They’re just bugging people, who messes up because they give a shit about breaking equipment. You help them, and they break it again and again and again.
2. They don’t have enough knowledge into using equipmente, because surely they are normal people wic spent hundreds of dollars in specialization in their areas which have nothing to do with computer, but here it splits to:
2.a. This people want to learn, this people deserve our time if possible, because tey will probably not bug us anymore in the future, the’re interested and doing things right
2.b. This people just don’t want to get along with technology, and it doesn’t matter if you try to explaining how not to mess up in common tasks with apples and oranges (simple tast as prnting, email, etc), so they mess up again and again too and don’t care.
3. There’s people who FIRST TRY TO DO SOMETHING as esay as chehing if the printer doesnt print because maybe is disconnected from the computer, disconnected from the power, that the mouse is not working correctly because is dirty and they first clean it, that the email bouced back after sent because they wrote the adress wrong and many oher BEFORE asking any advice because they are conscience that it takes away our time, but at certain point, they ask you for an advice, Since you know that thi people try first, you know that they will pay alot of atention and what you will sggest and remember it the next time it happens again.Whatever, it’s tru that this is a dad horse yeah, but is not a ‘matter of principle’ only, it’s very important when you get to know the people requesting help.
Everyone willing to tryly LEARS is wort our time and teaching wenever possible of course.
And about charging, tottaly agred when it comes to actual work, because it’s work and we all studied to work in it as a way to sustain orserlves, besides, it’s not ok to make people comfortable with getting things for free that’s damage for them 🙂
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June 24, 2005 at 1:57 pm #3178606
Who should get real?
by warnerit · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
I don’t know dude, you seem to have kind of a bad attitude. If someone is abusing you, like constantly asking you for business level help and wanting you to come to their business for free, etc. that’s one thing. But a little friendly helping out to people you work with or live by is called good PR.
I’ve been in IT for 12 years and I’ve seen people with your kind of attitude and they ended up ultimately not getting very far. First people laid off when times got tight, etc.
There’s a thing called Quid Pro Quo. You help me and I’ll help you. It doesn’t always mean money is exchanged. It’s more of a barter thing. I happen to live next door to a surgeon and he has many times offered to do things like simple stitches when the kids fall down so we or other neighbors don’t have to go to the ER and spend half the day there waiting to get 3 stitches that takes all of 10 minutes. And we in turn help him out with computer stuff or landscaping advice or whatever else our family has expertise in when he needs it. It’s not an every day thing. I’ve also got a guy who owns a custom home building business and also an attorney across the street from me. We all help each other out from time to time with our areas of expertise. No one would expect the attorney to do a divorce or custody battle or something big like that for free, but he certainly doesn’t mind giving out 5-10 minutes worth of advice once in a while. I’ve even gotten referrals for my business from these guys because of helping them out for free in a neighborly way.
Before we owned our own company, spouse and I both gladly helped our co-workers out with home computer questions without charging, and we’ve gotten some good referrals from them too.
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June 26, 2005 at 4:44 am #3176577
I agree with you!
by pccoach · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
Anyone who has taken time and effort to become skilled in his or her profession is entitled to be compensated for that skill. And the example of a physician was on the ‘er…money!
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July 4, 2005 at 1:51 pm #3172722
Bad analogy – doctors don’t charge here.
by gqd2001 · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
Doctor’s charges are included with your Canadian citizenship.
But I do agree that we should be compensated for out of office IT support.
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November 15, 2005 at 6:28 am #3117843
totally agree with you
by tonez1 · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
I totally agree with you… people are always asking for free advice. yet if you ask them for something they want something in return. With me however people dont want free advice, they want me to fix thier pc problems for free.
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November 15, 2005 at 7:26 pm #3131120
Well said
by sheldonmoss · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
That is correct – i couldn’t have said it better myself.
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November 16, 2005 at 7:34 am #3130562
Not bad…
by alxnsc9 · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
Picture yourself you don’t “get multiple co-workers stopping” you in your “tracks many times during a day to ask for free tech support”, you don’ “get non-stop calls at home and at work from friends, family, aquaintances, and co-workers asking for free tech support”…
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November 19, 2005 at 3:09 am #3117455
Dangers if they don’t get help.
by michael_orton9 · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
I you don’t help them, then they will set up an informal self help group around the “IT GURU”.
Perhaps form a local LUG, swap software, pirate ware, perhaps even swap viruses!
eventually you will find that this grooup at work no longer bothers to come to you. -
November 20, 2005 at 4:57 am #3117328
Pathetic
by pastwalker · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Obviously you’re not in IT.
I hope you never have to go to anyone for any type of help. All that technical knowledge and schooling taught you a lot but you never learned anything about human relations. You need to know that your services are being paid by the company you work for. Anything else is “gravy”.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:08 am #3178873
Where do you fit?
by saintgeorge · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
I’ve been working in corporate environments for 20+ years, since the beginning of personal computing, and I still have to find coworkers who know anything about home electricity, plumbing, washing machines, tv-sets, car repair, clothes repair, and so on. I have found no use for security personnel, secretaries and personal assistants, vendors, publicity guys, human resources, and the lady who makes the coffe. Not to mention anyone up the hyerarchical ladder, who only say Hello when they need something and do not even try to find your name before they come asking. But somehow, all of them, have computers at their homes. Where do you fit in?
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June 23, 2005 at 6:40 am #3178822
It is a matter of your own character
by seanwestgate · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
This is a silly thread. It is really simple, it comes down to personal character and how you look at the world. If you are a nice guy then you find a way to give advice without being exploited or feeling exploited because you welcome opportunities to spread good will and share your knowledge. If you are not a nice guy then you think the world is trying to take advantage of you and they should PAY PAY PAY. However if this is you then you do see yourself as a nice guy and you will never understand what I am saying here.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:48 am #3178739
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by antuck · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to It is a matter of your own character
I would have to disagree with you. This one is not a silly thread. I am the nice guy you speak of and do find ways to give free advice when needed. But at the same time, yes, I do think of getting paid. Everything in this world cost lots of money. If I’m giving free advice all the time how am I able to pay for anything? I do some bartering and that helps, but I spend more time giving free advice. Yet when I need to get something there is a charge for it. I spend a lot of time keeping up to date with the IT field. I spend a lot of time learning what is out there now. So why is it I shouldn’t charge for my advice or services? I anymore don’t like telling someone I work on computers because it never fails you are asked a question. And what is really funny is I am expected to know what is wrong with a persons computer just by them saying it locks up. Ask what error the computer is giving they just say blah blah I don’t know. So I am expected to be able to fix blah blah I don’t know and of course it needs to be just a couple of key strokes and no technical computer terms. I don’t get free advice so why should it be expected of me to give free advice?
Oh by the way I started writing this 45 min ago and was interupted three times for free services. Yea its only 9AM and it starts.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:04 am #3178719
You are still getting paid!
by emmanemms · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
If personal questions ARE disrupting your productivity, that is another issue, and you likely need to deal with that problem! However, sharing knowledge for such a complex technology is just the nice thing to do. No one is calling you at home on YOUR time. No one is dropping by on the weekends! If that were happening, then you SHOULD expect remuneration of some kind. You are being paid by your employer while they are asking their questions. If your management doesn’t have a problem with it, then you shouldn’t either. And by the way, you probably get free advice all the time. You just don’t realize it. If during your time off, your friends and acquaintences are picking your brain and are, indeed, “using you,” then you need better friends. I have IT friends that can do things better than me or faster, and I ask for their advice. I’m mature enough, however, to feel that a “good deed” deserves another one–and I reciprocate in some way. This is all about Life 101–be nice, play well, do unto others… yada yada yada. If you missed that course during all of your time spent on IT training, call your mother–she was giving that course when you were still in diapers.
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June 23, 2005 at 10:31 am #3177836
Uhh…
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to You are still getting paid!
“No one is calling you at home on YOUR time. No one is dropping by on the weekends! ”
Uhh…yes, they are.
And my boss does indeed have a problem with me giving advice on home pc’s while at work. He gets the same questions that I do, seeing as he’s an IT pro also.
I’m fine with the “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” bit, but the original post isn’t concerned with this. It’s concerned with “IT freeloaders”. There’s a big difference between renumeration in the form of cash or favors and “Free IT Advice”.
For instance, when I share info with other IT pros, I don’t consider it “Free IT advice”. They owe me and I owe them. It’s reciprocal.
I would NEVER even consider having them work on my machine for free. THAT’S the difference. Users don’t want just advice. They want more and more until it becomes, not just borders on, Free IT Technical Services.One such discourse I had with a user I determined he needed his OS reloaded. I was 100% confident in my diagnosis, but I should have kept my mouth shut. It lead to:
“Great! When will you have time?”My response (not very nice according to the “nice guys” on this forum) was:
“I won’t!”I told him in no uncertain terms that I’d charge $100, would do it when I had spare time and didn’t guarantee anything whatsoever after he left with it.
He paid, had his machine a week later and never complained about it. We’re good friends now.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:44 am #3177755
Oh enough!
by mr l · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to You are still getting paid!
I’ve read a dozen of these “If you are nice…mature…play well…yada yada…you will dispense free advice and free assistance” responses and enough is enough. Because someone chooses not to spend their time dispensing free advice or providing free assistance they are not nice? When did any of you become the arbiters or world authorities on what constitutes “nice”?
I make it very easy for my staff, they are here to take care of company business during working hours. It is expected that that is what they do, not spend time they are being paid by their employer assisting people with personal, non-work related issues. In some very small business, you may be able to deal with the losses in productivity associated with technicians being taken away from their work. When you have 3000+ customers in one facility, and 6 technicians to deal with their needs, I assure you you don’t have that luxury…period.
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June 23, 2005 at 12:48 pm #3177700
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by antuck · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to You are still getting paid!
Wow you are so far off it’s not funny. One I work as an independent contractor for a computer shop. I also have my own computer buss. So NO I do not get paid to talk to people. I only get paid when working on someones computer. Yes people do call me at home on MY time.
Rarly do I get free advise. If I have a problem with a car, A/C, Fridge, or anything else, no one gives free advise. I can’t go to the auto dealership and ask how do I replace this part or what ever it maybe.
I can aggree that about the “good deed” and the “reciprocating” as long as it is reciprocated. And not always is that the case. And YES my mother did teach me about do good deeds. The problem comes in when I am expected to give the good deeds all the time simply because I work on computers.
Also, if I did work for an employer, that employer is paying me to work on there computers not everybody elses.
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November 15, 2005 at 11:52 am #3131284
I get called when I am not working
by tonez1 · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to You are still getting paid!
I get called when I’m not working all the time. I’ve gotten calls when i am not home asking when if they can drop off the pc at my house “in a few minutes” so I can check it out. I have to tell them I am not home and I wont be back for a few hours then get the question “when can I drop it off?” You know what most of the calls I end up getting are for pc help….
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June 23, 2005 at 10:36 am #3177832
Well I have to disagree with you
by brian.teeters · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
“Yet when I need to get something there is a charge for it. I spend a lot of time keeping up to date with the IT field. I spend a lot of time learning what is out there now. So why is it I shouldn’t charge for my advice or services?”
Alot of people cannot afford computer repair at $100/HR for a couple hours of time they could just buy a new computer. Yes you spend alot of time keeping up to date but you do that because of your chosen profesion and most of the time you dont even have to pay for it. So why shouldn’t you charge for advise of service, one word KARMA and KARMA is a B**CH. I do understand charging if you have to go to someones house for hours and do alot of work but to pop a CD into someones computer and reinstall an OS is no big deal at least for most IT Pros and 99.9% of the time that is what they really need. Do unto others man.
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June 23, 2005 at 10:52 am #3177811
You’re way off…
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Well I have to disagree with you
Popping in an OS CD isn’t a big deal to me.
But it takes a good 3-4+ hours to do it right. You have to do the settings, download all the freaking patches, install all the drivers etc. etc. make sure they have AV..
THEN they ALWAYS want you to re-install all their software, which can take 10x more time.And you say I’ll have bad Karma for charging $100/hour for that?
Is it worth $100/hour? No. But I charge it because that’s how much I value the time I’m NOT going to spend with my family in order to help this schmuck. I charge $100/hour BECAUSE I’M COUNTING ON THEM BEING SET AGHAST! I DON”T WANT the job!
Strangely enough, some people come back with a couple of $50’s and insist… I tried to discourage them.
AND If you ever load someone’s OS, they WILL be calling you a week later after they bog it down with malware or however they choose to clog it up.
Guess what? It’s ALL YOUR FAULT! Karma IS a B!t*h!
NO THANKS. Take your morality and KEEP it.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:58 am #3177745
One thing they can’t pay you back
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
We have a finite time on this earth. The one thing they can’t repay you is time spent fixing their problem. So you need something in return. If it is someone who already gives you something in return, you’re more likely to help them.
The arrogant attitudes of clueless end users amaze me. They want you to fix it, free, immediately if possible, and drive to there place.
And as plenty of others said, you’re then responsible if it hiccups a year later.
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July 7, 2005 at 11:15 am #3183458
Free advice
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Anyone that makes a decision to pursue a career in the IT industry should expect that there will be request for free advice. Some or most would consider this flattering (at least there was a time when this was true). The choice is up to you whether you want to give the advice or not, but if you’re having problems paying for things perhaps looking for a better paying job will alleviate that problem.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:51 am #3178735
FINALLY, a “nice guy”
by emmanemms · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to It is a matter of your own character
Sean, why can’t everyone understand your concept? It not only applies to IT, but to every aspect of our lives. I’ll bet you sleep well at night and have a lot of good friends. People with good character usually do!
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June 23, 2005 at 8:55 am #3177942
“Nice guys” often get pizza instead
by beads · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to FINALLY, a “nice guy”
Though I agree that there should be a modicum of civility and graciousness in the world. All to often we are faced with the ruthlesness of the “real world”. Get something for nothing attitude that all to often pervades our society. Not that I grew up that way but its what faces me now as an adult in a metropolis. Sad isn’t it?
With that its all to often to get pizza instead of any monetary form of payment.
– beads
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June 23, 2005 at 10:45 am #3177816
Pizza is a good payment
by brian.teeters · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to “Nice guys” often get pizza instead
as i stated before alot of people cant afford pro IT advise but they can make a good faith effort to make a friend with you by hookin you up with pizza or beer or whatever Example I fixed one of the cafeteria workers computer a few weeks ago, it took me an hour to install windows and office. and not even an hour i had to put the disks in and continue what i was doing. well now i notice that when i get food from the cafe i always get a little bit more or i get the good stuff from the back thats fresh. also i came to my office today and found a card with a gift certificate for a resurant from him. the point is you dont have to charge someone a ton of money for doing something that in reality takes you 20 min of actual work because you never know how that person will pay you back in their own way, even if they just give you a heart felt thank you that should be enough.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:02 am #3177799
Yeah…lots
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to FINALLY, a “nice guy”
Giving out free IT expertise gets you lots of new friends.
Too bad you don’t have time to do anything but fix their computers. You don’t sleep too well either with the wife b****ing that you’re never home and you can’t pay the bills with beer and pizza…
I used to be a “nice guy”. I know how it was. I think I much prefer being the cynical a-hole I am now.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:04 am #3177795
Wow
by brian.teeters · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Yeah…lots
sounds like someone hates life and the life he has chosen.
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June 23, 2005 at 12:14 pm #3177717
don’t see hate of life here
by contact · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Yeah…lots
I will not agree that “someone hates the life he has chosen”.
Sounds more like, on one side, someone who actually TRIED to be helpfull and realized the kind of reward it brings and, on the other side, someone who never tried to help (probably claims so, though) but instead spreads beautiful ideas on what OTHERS should do.
I am confident that you do not* hate the life you have chosen… I probably would but I understand you like it…
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July 7, 2005 at 7:45 am #3184355
too bad!
by emmanemms · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Yeah…lots
It’s too bad your past experience has led you to be cynical. However, as with most situations where more than one person is involved, COMMUNICATION is the key. If YOU didn’t explain your expectations, if YOU didn’t make a request, if YOU didn’t get agreement with the other person, if YOU didn’t follow through when the other person didn’t meet that expectation, agreement or request, then YOU set yourself up to become a cynic–albeit a guise for lack of communication, confrontation, or whatever you want to call “asking for what you want and making sure you get it.” What’s wrong with saying, “My spare time is limited, and I have to ensure that it’s maximized. I can work 24/7 and get paid for every minute of it if I want to, so I have to make a choice whether I get paid or do something for you for free. I’m sure you can understand that I choose to get paid…” and so on. I’m sure you’ve experienced the same thing in your marriage–it’s not fair to get mad at your spouse if they don’t even know they did anything wrong.
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June 24, 2005 at 3:30 pm #3178575
A Nice Guy
by schuhmd · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to FINALLY, a “nice guy”
I like to think I’m a nice guy. I was the neighborhood IT. Everyone would come to me with their computer problems. And I would help them all. One night the lady next door woke me up to help her fix a printer problem. This was 1:00 am. I helped her as always. A few weeks later my wife was having a hard time breathing. I went over to her house because her hubby is a DR. She told me her Hubby could not be disturbed because he worked late. And I should call 911. This is just one of many responses I have gotten from my neighbors when I needed there help. So now I tell them to call a computer support. And I have become the bad neighbor.
Like someone said no good dead goes unpunished. -
June 27, 2005 at 6:04 am #3176367
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by the admiral · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to A Nice Guy
In your case, I would respond that it would be OK for me to drop everything at 1AM to help you with a printer problem, but it is not OK for me to come over at 1AM for something else.
Turnabout is fair play. If they don’t like it, you simply have to explain that there was no reciprocating feelings of loyalty to you when you needed something, but you had to be ready to go when they needed something.
That is the only way you can make it clear that they were using you and you did not appreciate it.
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July 2, 2005 at 5:52 am #3185468
Good Choice
by knightheart · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to A Nice Guy
Those kind of people are scum, quite frankly, and I’m glad to see that you’ve cut them off. You’re not the bad one, that selfish b*tch fills that bill quite nicely. With me, however, I wouldn’t have gotten out of bed at 1am for a printer problem in the first place. This person saw you as a doormat, a tool, something to be used, not a fellow human being who deserves help and is willing to help in return. She didn’t want to wake her husband, but she had no problem waking you? That’s a big screaming neon sign shouting “YOU’RE NOTHING BUT A RESOURCE TO BE TAKEN OUT AND USED AT MY WILL.” Good for you telling them to blow off and get help elsewhere.
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July 7, 2005 at 7:53 am #3184344
I don’t disagree
by emmanemms · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to A Nice Guy
I don’t blame you for your current “unresponsiveness” to your neighbors. Someone stated in their reply to my post that I likely don’t help others… That couldn’t be further from the truth. From IT on, I help whenever I can. However, I am NOT a door mat, and wouldn’t expect anyone to be. If you do a good turn for someone, but they can’t do one for your (a la your doctor neighbor–amazing bee-ach!), then I would pointedly ask anyone who ever couldn’t help me out once I’d helped them, “so, you’re saying that this is a one-way street–I help you, but you can’t help me. I just want to be clear, since I’ll be closing down the street for permanent construction!” There is a happy medium. You know who you can count on to reciprocate, and you know the others… if not, you soon will.
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June 18, 2007 at 1:26 pm #2597488
and they all finish last
by locrian_lyric · about 16 years, 10 months ago
In reply to FINALLY, a “nice guy”
nuff said
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June 23, 2005 at 10:21 am #3177846
It is character
by robwaybro · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to It is a matter of your own character
I think you nailed it right here. It is character and some of the follow-ups prove it.
Some Doctors will give ADVICE
Some Plumbers will give ADVICE
Some (insert profession) will give ADVICEOthers will not and expect to get something everytime they open their mouths and/or minds (which don’t always go together).
I also like the point that was made by another poster, many of the folks feeling ‘used’ are feeling this way by co-workers WHILE AT WORK, so they are getting paid and I agree that if the company does not have a problem with it (and the original poster stated one ‘inquisitive’ person was a PARTNER, so the company certainly does not have a problem with it) then they really need to examine themselves and their character.
I give advice (and some service) to friends and family all the time, but I considerate it the ‘neighborly’ (for lack of a better term) thing to do. If it is something that is going to take time to fix/troubleshoot, etc, then we do come to some kind of agreement, and it is NOT always monetary. I frequently trade services, even something as simple as them watching my children while my wife and I go see a movie.
But I am also not into getting money for everything I do, guess that is my CHARACTER.
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July 7, 2005 at 11:11 am #3183462
Good Point
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to It is a matter of your own character
I think you make a good point here. There was a time when those working in the IT field would jump at the opportunity to demonstrate their mastery of the field. I think the dot com boom has had a permanent negative psychological impact on ITs and that is they now have this elitist mentality.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:56 am #3178808
Burning Bridges…
by coxd · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
This issue really depends on several factors: the work environment, who is asking, what their role/position is in the company, your professional relationship with that person, the level/depth of the question(s), and many others. The right answer depends on these factors. In addition to tmcal’s comment on your co-workers charging you, you need to consider your professional career. Promotion/advancement is more who you know that what you know. People remember and value the little things…refusing to help a co-worker could burn a valuable bridge you might need to get ahead.
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June 23, 2005 at 12:04 pm #3177734
Don’t
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Burning Bridges…
burn your bridges till you get to them!
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June 23, 2005 at 6:59 am #3178801
Not so clear as that.
by markdmac · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
I think there is a big difference between coming to someone for work related help and going to someone for personal reasons.
A good example would be going to the company book keeper and asking them to do your taxes.
But the fact is that the lines between home and work are now often blurred. People have remote access to email and sometimes their entire work environment. Those machines connecting to your network could be a security risk if not up to date on virus software and anti-spyware software. It might be in your best interest to help them.
I think it is reasonable to answer questions that are not too involved. Just like you might ask the book keeper, the name of a form, someone at work might have a question that you can answer quickly without interfering with your day. Its the detailed problems that are really beyond the comprehension of the user that pose the real problem.
Some things you need to consider would be first off are you salaried or a contractor paid by the hour? If you are salaried I would look at this way, you are being paid to be a company resource. A partner asking for your help is your BOSS asking for help. Your pay comes from his pocket and he has a right to decide what priorities are. If you are a contractor then it is totally different as you are probably contracted for a specific purpose and charging by the hour. In that case I would suggest you have them run things for approval by your supervisor/manager first.
Under all circumstances, it is totally acceptable to tell someone you are currently working on a priority and ask that they return at a certain time or to tell them you will find them when your schedule clears. That way you can get done what you need to and prioritize things.
A public folder in Exchange or a task list in SharePoint can be a good way for you to divert some of the questions. Let people post things for you rather than ask you in person. That way you can quickly provide an answer (I can type faster than they can absorb what I am saying).
Some people get really bugged by people asking for help and I personally don’t understand it. I’ve been in IT for 13 years and have enjoyed a great career because I love what I do. For my friends I always offer to help them, at a price, I charge them a hot cup of tea.
Naturally there will be people who will try to abuse your generosity. When I encounter such people I can honestly tell them that I don’t have the time resources available to help them and suggest a local computer store that might be able to help them.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:10 am #3178788
Bravo! Well said!
by cswearingen · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Not so clear as that.
This is the best response I’ve read:
“Under all circumstances, it is totally acceptable to tell someone you are currently working on a priority and ask that they return at a certain time or to tell them you will find them when your schedule clears. That way you can get done what you need to and prioritize things.”
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June 23, 2005 at 7:16 am #3178777
When’s the last time…
by eureeky · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
When’s the last time you saw a doctor happily give out free medical advice? Or an airline pilot giving free flight instruction? These people are highly trained professionals and so are we. Why should we be the only professional group expected to give away our expertise and years of training? I thought we made our living by selling that expertise.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:00 am #3177803
Just a bit different
by brian.teeters · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to When’s the last time…
I dont get how comparing IT to Medical and Airline Pilots makes any sense for one when working on a computer nobodys life is at risk a doctor giving out free medical advise can become the victim of a lawsuit same goes for an airline pilot. As for the IT world if something goes wrong there is always parts or new software nobody is going to have a life altering experiance because windows crashed.
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June 23, 2005 at 12:38 pm #3177707
Well Yea
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Just a bit different
if it crashed when you were working on it, and even if it WAS something you did, it could have life altering (or sever inconvenience) for them. Suppose they had important info on it (that of course wasn’t backed up) for the least example.
And not everyone in IT is a PC person, and YES getting that router, etc working so the whole company can run IS more important than answering a person’s non-work related questions.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:09 am #3178002
Not Better Than Everybody Else
by djjonas · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
When people knock on your door at 9:00 at night or call you and want advice or to work on their computer at odd hours it makes a person say no, because these people are not willing to pay and are looking for something for nothing.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:48 am #3177950
Of dead horses and IT
by beads · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
We can rarely leave anything alone. It usually takes IT folks years to get over our little pet issues.
My personal favorite: “Real men don’t use mice…” debate from back in the late 80s or early 90s.
No, no. This would be mild. This horse isn’t only dead but unrecognizable as a horse any more.
– beads
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June 23, 2005 at 9:15 am #3177911
Good Advice
by vltiii · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
Well said, I’m curious how we got to the point in our society that we don’t want to help anyone unless there is something to be gained.
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June 23, 2005 at 2:47 pm #3176957
because theres no time
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Good Advice
to help everyone with problems unrelated to you, and since they are not starving there’s no moral obligation to.
we do help people, just people in need. most co-workers / neighbors do not fall in this category
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June 23, 2005 at 9:54 am #3177874
Helping HandSssss
by ac2 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
I can see your point and agree in many circumstances. However, there are those that abuse the privilage, people that still do not see IT as real work. For example: our head grounds keeper consistantly botches his home (and office) computer and comes to me for help. Never once has he offered to cut my grass. I’ve even asked him other botanical questions, only to receive the ‘I don’t really know anything about that…” response. Unfortunately, this is often the rule rather than the exception.
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June 23, 2005 at 2:10 pm #3177652
Be serious
by poky_it · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
Get serious — My employer is paying me to do his/her work when I’m in the office (and fre
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June 23, 2005 at 2:14 pm #3176964
Don’t confuse work with home!
by samza · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
I don’t think I’m better than anyone else and I’ll gladly help someone for free AT WORK, ABOUT WORK. But like many others say here, if I did everything for free that everyone wants, I’d never have a moment to myself. One “friend” of mine only calls or e-mails when he has an IT problem. I never hear or see from him otherwise, but he’s a “friend”. It’s similar to when I lived in New Orleans. Around Mardi Gras I’d hear from “friends” I hadn’t seen in years, looking for a free place to stay. Sounds to me like you’re a bit jealous of IT with the “IT feels they are above or better than anyone else”. If you want to make the money, you’ve got to do the work. I don’t ask my dentist to work for free.
On the other hand, I will do barter. I’ll fix this and you do something for me that I’m not good at doing. Remember these are co-workers who don’t want advice about work, they want freebies about their home PC’s. Have you ever spent hours trying to straighten out a system with a 56K modem and AOL installed, no backups, none of the Microsoft or other OS updates installed and please don’t format my drive? Oh, and it’s “FREE”. It’s not like it’s work, huh?
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June 23, 2005 at 7:55 pm #3176868
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by the admiral · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
There is a time when you have to say enough free stuff and actually earn your pay. I do not believe that IT is above everyone else, the fact of the matter is that a high school drop out who put a computer together could answer the question. (HINT: IT is common knowledge, and no one should put more value on it than that since most Idiots guide to…. or Blank for Dummies can get people certified) Don’t read more into that than there is.
But if your asked a general question that is not detailed like my printer won’t install, the common answer is that if it is a HP you have to run the CD that came with the printer first then plug it in after it reboots.
But the highly technical stuff that will take longer to explain than actually reading War and Peace should be tabled for a person or company that can go to their house and do it.
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June 24, 2005 at 4:49 am #3176780
Saying no… the nice way
by danitech · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
Hello,
I have had the same problems in the past… Until recently though i have found it to be a major problem. You can always talk to your boss, and exagurate the amount of time you spend unwillingly helping these people when there are very critical tasks which need to be completed for the company. Tell your boss that you feel there needs to be a limitation on how much time is being utilized with these non-work related issues, and have that “strictly enforced”. Then you can tell your co-workers that your boss has noticed you spend considerable amount of time on non-work related things (if your boss is not at the same location as you, one could say they had heard reports of it from “someone”) and you need to limit the conversation to 5 min and are very sorry but your boss is watching your every min when someone is talking to you… or something like that. When it comes to the partner though, it’s always good to get in their good books, so I would recommend having them bring you to their house to actually repair the problems. That is what we do where I work. Then you get into their good books and magical things happen 🙂
And if you want to help a co-worker out, or give them “advice” you can always create a how to document outlining the fix for their problems. Just tell them you found something on the internet, not sure if it works, but here you go anyways. Just a thought!
Best of luck!
Dani -
June 24, 2005 at 3:16 pm #3178577
The Politics Of Helping
by mgordon · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
Boss: Certainly you help.
Co-workers: It depends on what is wanted, how long it will take, and what sort of karma you expect.
Family: Generally speaking wise to avoid. The method you use to dodge varies with the person.
Friends: Help.
Here’s the reasoning: The instant you touch someone else’s computer, YOU become responsible for any failure it experiences for the next unpredictable period of time, but in my experience about 3 months. It is sort of an implied warranty.
Your friends will understand that the computer just died, it’s day was up; and not your fault.
Family does not understand. Adjusting the brightness on the monitor just before the hard disk or motherboard dies links you to to the expensive replacement of disk, and motherboard; without compensation and certainly no thanks that five years of documents just vanished.
Co-workers generally also do not understand; if they DID they would have your job. However, there’s karma, if you help them *maybe* they will help you. Anyone in the HR department gets mo betta treatment of course 🙂
Your boss doesn’t need to understand. If the hard disk dies when you touch it, you fix it; but at least you can put it on the company dime.
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June 27, 2005 at 10:05 am #3177204
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by brazen1 · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
Actually, if it is something I can answer fairly easily, I don’t mind answering it. And I feel like I get these questions fairly often, however, there are other professionals I work with and the same people seem to think it’s rude or inconsiderate to ask a quick question from them.
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November 19, 2005 at 7:57 am #3117420
Help all you can…It may make your job easier
by rubendlct · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Helping Hands
I believe helping our friends is part of our lives. The peoplo we work and live with are our sheath and “word of mouth”. When you help a friend and let him/her know you are doing it because they are your friends, chances are they will provide you with businessess. I know; it is working for me in a fantastic way. We can apply “capitalism” without being selfish and thinking we are above the others who lack the basic knowledge of the computer world. Blessed are those who can impart their knowledge to other, for to them belong the kindom of IT. Knowledge is power; but it can be evil when it is placed in egoistical minds. I believe that together we can make this a better world.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:36 am #3178829
Depends on who it is
by danag429 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to …then tell them…
C’mon, get off your high horse. My doctor supplies me with certain allergy pills and other supplies out of the samples she receives from the drug companies. If she needs some help with a simple computer glitch, I’m glad to help.
Similarly with other friends. If a total stranger asks, then I charge $70 per hour, one hour minimum. But people who we regularly interact with and are a friend of a sort, tend to share knowledge.
The concept is called “community”, and it extends beyond your normal field. As a photographer, I am glad to help others. Even beginners in the industry, I’ll help them with their business questions. The cadre of friends you build up is very valuable for the rest of your career!
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June 23, 2005 at 7:08 am #3178792
Re: Depends on who it is
by linuxinlibraries.com · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Depends on who it is
> The concept is called “community”, and it extends
> beyond your normal field. As a photographer, I am
> glad to help others. Even beginners in the
> industry, I’ll help them with their business
> questions. The cadre of friends you build up is
> very valuable for the rest of your career!I agree with this comment completely. I am not a bit afraid to “share resources” or barter my services. I just choose not to be taken advantage of by those who want something for nothing. 🙂
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June 23, 2005 at 1:18 pm #3177684
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by antuck · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Depends on who it is
I would agree completly with this. I do give out free advise especially if someone is giving me something for free. I never charge my friends and when I need something they are always there to help. I have customers I will give free advise to. But I am carefull with which customers I give free advise to. Ones that call me all the time or call me once in awhile I will help. I have some that because I gave them free advise once expect it everytime without spending any money. Those are the ones I like to walk out of the shop right away. And they are the type of people I really get agravated about giving free support.
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June 27, 2005 at 2:56 pm #3177036
Community
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Depends on who it is
This was an excellent response. It seems that those that are opposed to offering help or guidance also don’t understand what networking is all about. Of course there are times when it may be inappropriate for a user to ask for help, but in general, what is the harm, unless the issue is going to take a considerable amount of time to correct?
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June 23, 2005 at 10:57 am #3177809
Don’t work so cheap
by stan20 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to …then tell them…
I tell them its $250 an hour. (If I like them.)
If they are jerks, the price goes up. Billed in 15 minute increments.Anyone who thinks my rates are too high is free to
go elsewhere.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:21 am #3178922
Not surprised
by ddissent · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to evil, nasty idea..
I’m not that surprised that you are Canadian
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June 23, 2005 at 5:31 am #3178915
Sharing knowledge will build good will
by randrews@tropicnetworks · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to evil, nasty idea..
I believe a good response is to listen, offer a couple of quick suggestions. Also state that if these do not work, the machine may need to go to the local dealer. When the time comes for you to need some understanding when you can’t get the office system up quickly – the good will you build will become very valuable.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:30 am #3178840
Where did you learn?
by tampa hillbilly · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Sharing knowledge will build good will
I read the baloney about how “I spent thousands of dollars on training.” Tell the truth… you threw thousands of questions at us old timers and spend thousands of your employer`s dollars for your education. How quickly we forget that we were also newbies at one time. Confused people are asking for a little guidance, no more, no less. I agree with randrews@… Good Will is priceless.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:31 am #3178838
Absolutely Right!
by deacon336 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Sharing knowledge will build good will
You are absolutely right. Pointing them to the local repair shop for the actual repairs is very reasonable. Many of them are simply trying to determine the right course of action. Furthermore, a little good will goes a long way in the office and in personal relationships.
The bad attitudes posted here offer some insight to why many executives do not want “techies” in the front office. Many of them have NO people skills.
Good technical skills combined with good people skills are a mighty force.
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June 23, 2005 at 10:41 am #3177819
I Agree – Good Will for the Future
by pos_techie · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Sharing knowledge will build good will
It’s the same if it’s your family and friends, or the customer you support that needs help with something you are not supposed to be supporting. Like if you support a proprietary software, but a customer calls in with a not really related issue. Do you shut them down immediately or do you point them in right direction? You point them in the right direction so the next time you speak to them they are not all over your case about how you didn’t help them that one time. Because you know that’s all they will ever remember about you!It’s the same with co-workers and families, I will point them in the right direction, then tell them if it doesn’t work they have to take it to a shop. I have posted before about the ungratefuls, they get that response. The really close family members, like my parents and my siblings, get support because they throw gift certificates at me because they appreciate the time I spent fixing their issues. My father taught me that a long time ago. He’s a union electrician, and if you think we get requests for free services, you wouldn’t believe how many an electrician gets! “Can you install a new phone jack? Can you run data cable? Can you install a new light/fan, etc.?” The ones that give him ‘tokens of appreciation’ are always the ones he is willing to go back to anytime, even if it’s just a six pack. The ungrateful ones get the brush off!
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June 23, 2005 at 7:49 am #3178737
do unto others
by emmanemms · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to evil, nasty idea..
Is that REALLY how you would want to be treated? IT/PCs are complex. It is amazing to me that home users even manage to keep their PCs running given how quickly technology changes, viruses advance, etc. You have knowlege that most people don’t possess, and if you’re already being PAID through a “real job,” then you are NOT a consultant for hire technically! If I knew the “trick” to unstick the elevator in the office at your job, and you were stuck between the third and fourth floors, using your MO and since I’m NOT the elevator repairman, I should (1) yell down to you to call the maintenance company from your cell phone or (2) find the 50-page instruction manual to the elevator and throw it down the shaft to you (I’d be nice enough to dog-ear the 10 pages on troubleshooting for you though). How selfish.
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June 23, 2005 at 3:15 pm #3176943
How do you Figure?
by dlindley · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to do unto others
“if you’re already being PAID through a “real job,” then you are NOT a consultant for hire technically!”
How do you figure this? Just because I have a “Real job” doesn’t mean I don’t also have a job as a consultant? I both work for a company and have my own consulting company. I have more work to do between those two than I can keep up with.
You talk about people being selfish for not wanting to work for free. You’re saying that since I have a full time job I should just donate all of my free time and the work I do for my own customers?
I will always help people out who really need the help and can’t aford it, I have one client who needs the help but doen’t have the money, so I trade them my time for worthless equipment they have laying around that I don’t want in the first place. But why should I donate my time because someone who has the money is to cheap to pay?
The purpose of charging or bartering is not so much the return you are getting as letting the people know that this is how you make your living and they shouldn’t expect you to give up your time to fix their problems for free. There has to be some reciprication.
I just spent 10 hours this last weekend rebuilding a computer for someone who couldn’t afford it. That person recipricated by mowing my lawn. That is more than sufficient. Was mowing a lawn equivilent to 10 hours of work @ $75/hour? Of course not! The point is that they paid in a way they could. That’s all I ask.
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July 7, 2005 at 8:00 am #3184340
I agree
by emmanemms · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to How do you Figure?
I agree with you 100%. What I’m saying regards “while on the job.” The original post stated that a “partner” of the firm was wanting help on his personal home PC. As far as I know, “partners” are generally owners, and if that’s what the owner wants, that’s what the owner gets–during office hours anyway.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:51 pm #3176869
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by the admiral · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to evil, nasty idea..
You could do that if you had the personality of a stick, or you could be nice and say sorry, I can’t help you right now.
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November 19, 2005 at 12:42 pm #3117384
F1
by framey · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to evil, nasty idea..
Tell them to press F1. That usually shuts them up. 😉
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June 20, 2005 at 3:33 am #3173410
Another idea
by bfilmfan · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
We can set up a database with a phone listing of peers. When they want some free advice, have them call one of us. When we answer, it’s $3.95 a minute for all the hot nerd brain action they can stand and we could pay you a finder’s fee.
Most people in life are looking for something free. My advice is to provide no more than a 30-second answer for free. If they want more, quote them your rates. They usually disappear real fast then.
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June 22, 2005 at 3:35 pm #3174585
There is something like this
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Another idea
per incident help websites, pc mag rated several a while back
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June 20, 2005 at 4:02 am #3173403
I though I was the only one
by ramrod · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
..wow I really thought I was on my own in this department. My best excuse is that I won’t get involved because I will not be able to give it the time and attention it deserves to do the job ‘properly’ in fact I could even make the situation ‘worse’, lord knows how many times there is a situation when on the surface some users problem looks fairly simple but soon turns into a farce and a waste of your time, don’t even feel under pressure to answer their questions ‘silence is your ally’ in this situation
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June 23, 2005 at 6:36 am #3178828
Tell them you could make it worse? Are you insane?
by cswearingen · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I though I was the only one
What a way to really make an impression at work.
“Sorry I really don’t know how the heck to fix your $2,000 home PC. I’d probably make the problem worse. But on the bright side I’m in charge of the company’s million dollars worth of IT infrastructure!”
Yeah, that’ll breed confidence in your abilities…
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June 23, 2005 at 11:04 am #3177794
LOL
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Tell them you could make it worse? Are you insane?
That’s definately NOT what to say!
You never want to undermine anyone’s confidence in your abilities, especially the abilities you’re trying to make a living with.
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November 22, 2005 at 8:11 am #3123670
I got a flat tire while driving on the information superhighway
by tonybaggadonuts · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Tell them you could make it worse? Are you insane?
yeah, thats a stupid policy, making yourself look like an idiot to get out of helping someone. It’s just silly.
Okay so my company has only 150 users, so I give out free advise more than some. But most often people come to me describing some problem they’re having… I just say the same thing car mechanics tell drivers when they bring in their autos.
ie:
“My car is really sluggish. What could it be?”
“That problem could be caused by a number of different things.”And so it goes….
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June 23, 2005 at 7:40 am #3178747
you ARE the only one!
by emmanemms · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I though I was the only one
they’re asking for advice for necessarily a home visit!!! there has to be a compromise between silence and telling them how the watch is made. however, your tact will probably ensure that you are, indeed, the only one–one by yourself with no one to call on in a pinch! Can we sing, “Lonely, i’m Mr. Lonely…”
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September 16, 2005 at 6:45 am #3056692
forget it
by ramrod · about 18 years, 7 months ago
In reply to you ARE the only one!
…….I’m not sure what kind of people you surround yourself with but I do not need to barter IT knwoledge and skills for human relationships. I suppose in your world everything has a price and often you sell yourself cheap, we can’t be all things to all people so at some point you have to say no is my point
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June 20, 2005 at 6:34 am #3173346
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by the admiral · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
The correct answer is:
“Unfortunately, I don’t have experience with your particular setup, so it would be a complete shot in the dark as to how to fix your problem. You might have better luck by having a person come to your house who is licensed and bonded who can take a look at your setup and make the appropriate recommendations. I don’t want to give you the wrong information without knowing the entire picture, sort of like an automechanic pulling out the engine in your car just to plug a hole in your tire.”
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June 20, 2005 at 8:20 am #3173292
Bingo!!!
by tagmarkman · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
This is what I have used in the past. It works very well. I also carry some cards of a tech person that would be more than happy to do that work. I haven’t got that question at work for many many years but I still get it from time to time at parties and such. It’s like a person walking up to the head of surgery and asking them if they could take a look at their sore throat.
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June 20, 2005 at 8:36 am #3173284
And a graceful way of backing out , too
by mickster269 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
The Admiral summed it up quite nicely. We aren’t psychics, and we aren’t omnipotent.
But we also don’t want to dent our relations with our co-workers.
The diplomatic way out is the best way.
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June 21, 2005 at 1:21 pm #3175390
I like it
by aceskaraoke · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
It says you care, but not enough to get yourself on the hook for it.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:34 am #3178956
The Best Approach
by mollenhourb9 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
The Admiral has it right (maybe that’s why he’s the Admiral?). You don’t need to get belligerent, as some film critics do. Quoting rates could actually violate company policy with regard to moonlighting. These are usually decent people just trying to get a straight answer from somebody they trust. Give them the benefit of the doubt and treat them with respect. Someday you may need their help with something in the office, and you don’t want them to think you are a jerk (unless of course you ARE a jerk and LIKE being thought of that way).
Treat people as you would like to be treated.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:34 am #3178912
Make it Work for You
by tj8 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to The Best Approach
Better than being rude,is being helpful and having folks continue to see you as someone they respect. I’m often asked for advice and rather than blow them off, I’ve developed a system that usually solves the problem. It involves a little upfront work, but pays off in the long run. Usually they’re asking about the typical stuff: how to remove a virus, spyware; how to set up a computer or wireless;what’s a good program for something; etc. So, I have a bunch of easy to read and follow articles I’ve collected from sites such as Tech Republic(and made into pdf’s) along with downloads of my favorite software, such as ZoneAlarm or AVG. I’ve made a CD with all these on in it. I’ll make them a copy, give some advice and get them started. Then I tell them if they need me to come to the house, here’s what I charge folks, (but, since I work with you I’ll give you the discounted rate). I have a rate for phone assistance too. If they need you, they’ll happily pay you because you were kind and considerate of their needs. Plus, if you’re looking to have a little side business, you’re kindness will pay off in recommendations. You’ll also get people in your organization who are more knowledgeable and less likely to cause you problems in the long run. As others have said, you won’t have burnt any bridges and when it comes time to get cooperation for something you want (like maybe a raise) you’ll have built support.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:42 am #3178820
Couldn’t have said it better
by smullster · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Make it Work for You
T.J., is spot on. IT has a bad rep when it comes to customer service (and let’s face it… that is what the job boils down to). Even though some see people asking for technical advice as being rude, I try to look at it as a compliment. If they didn’t respect your opinion, then they wouldn’t ask you in the first place.
I’d want someone with TJ’s outlook working for my organization, compared to someone being rude to the end user.
That’s my $.02.
Oh, one more thing… what’s up with computer technician’s / engineers compairing themselves to medical doctors??
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June 23, 2005 at 9:30 am #3177894
Diagnostic ?
by contact · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Couldn’t have said it better
>>>>>>>
Oh, one more thing… what’s up with computer technician’s / engineers compairing themselves to medical doctors?>>>>><<
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June 23, 2005 at 6:16 am #3178857
but when you know, just tell them
by jarodbee · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Sometimes you may actually know the answer to their problem. Then just tell them. If you don’t know, say so and don’t spend time on it. This is what I do (mostly).
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June 23, 2005 at 6:44 am #3178819
Remember This Next Time….
by nottheusual1 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
…..you ask some poor schlub for a “freebie” – no matter what he does – fixing your car, mowing your lawn, fixing your phone, and the list goes on.
Freebies are a cost of doing business for those of us self-employed. They are a great way to build customer loyalty and create a patina of “invincibility” for you, no matter how illusitory it might be. Finding a balance isn’t hard, and most people sense when the balance is reached. If they don’t, the “it’s out of my league” advice is solid.
But – you run the danger of them finding a guy for whom the task isn’t out of his league. He could be your replacement. Why keep Underdog when Superman is looking for a full-time gig?
Don’t forget that these same people who you are withdrawing your support from will be making decisions about your future, and, quite sadly, based primarily on perception. You control perception, and they don’t particularly care about your reality. Business is business.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:06 am #3178794
A little free advice goes a long way
by arrichter · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Remember This Next Time….
I work for a Cardiologist group with 3 locations expanding to 5. There are only 2 people in our IT department. We are very busy to say the least, but I try to give advice when someone asks for it because it creates a better working environment. The person you help just might have the ear of someone who makes the decision about your next raise. Think about it!
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June 23, 2005 at 3:54 pm #3176928
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by the admiral · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to A little free advice goes a long way
Without knowledge of their complete system, you run the risk of loosing the raise anyway. Ever hear of the good samaritan that put the roof on the house to keep the people out of the rain in the poorest part of WVa?
The house fell and killed all 5 who lived there because of the weight of the roof on the house.
So sometimes, giving free advice is the wrong thing to do.
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June 23, 2005 at 3:52 pm #3176929
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by the admiral · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Remember This Next Time….
Those decisions are made with or without your free support. Those decisions are made by bean counters.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:43 am #3177961
Then they say…
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
“can YOU come take a look at it tomorrow? Just real quick (doe eyes) I’m sure someone with your technical skill can just punch a button or something…”
Been there, done that. Many times with different people of vastly differing familiarity.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:08 am #3177790
But it IS the best reply.
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Then they say…
My previous post was just a warning…
I’m not downing the suggested reply, as I use it all the time and it is probably the most gracious way to get out of a jam.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:08 am #3177789
Unfortunately…
by martimus · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
this reply leaves an awful lot of latitude for the troubled end user to try to force the situation. End users aren’t stupid or ignorant but this reply tends to imply just that.
Let me build a plausible but theoretical framework to help explain my statement. Let us say for a moment that I, an non-computer literate employee of the company come to you, the tech support person at the company, who just yesterday fixed a Windows problem with my PC. I ask if you could assist me with a problem with my home PC. How do you think I would react to a response indicating that you had no experience with my “setup”, AND anything you did would be a “shot in the dark”?
In all likelihood I would perceive that response to be a lie. Why? Because most end users see PC’s as generic commodities and feel that most computer problems are caused by Windows. And since I already know that you, the tech support person for the company, are very capable with Windows your response is obviously a flimsy excuse to try to avoid assisting me.
So what have we accomplished with this response? Well we’ve shown the end user a lack of respect reinforced by a statement perceived to be a lie or misrepresentation.
Personally if the question were posed to me, I’d simply tell the individual that I have prior committments that would interfere with my ability to assist them promptly. I would also say that I would be happy to refer them to another more capable resource (like a local computer store).
Simple and honest. I suspect the although the end user may not want to hear the response they’ll appreciate the fact that I’m sincere with them and not trying to “Blow smoke up their skirts”.
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June 24, 2005 at 8:32 am #3176684
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by the admiral · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Unfortunately…
I think that is giving too much benefit of the doubt, since most if not all users understand that not all PC’s or operating systems are alike being that they come to work using the blessed version and then go home to their preloaded system.
I hae never had someone that did not understand that all PC’s are not alike, all notebooks are not alike, all cars are not alike, all homes are not alike.
Lets say that the user asking the question is knuckle dragging stupid as you say. My answer is honest in that the user would not know the difference. If the person is a tinkerer, the answer is still valid, since most if not all companies have a standard setup that differs greatly from every other preload on a home system.
While I have confidence in every technician, I also have confidence that the tech will defer the end user to someone outside of the company, or call the free support numbers for their PC for their answer.
I do not believe that the answer is misleading in that quite simply, it states that the technician is not familiar with their HOME setup versus the corporate setting, and that it is better for a person who is familiar with the HOME setting to work on the system. Nothing more.
I think what I am saying is that in a corporate environment, I want my techs to focus on keeping the business running rather than working on everyones home system, and that free advice for a split second item is fine to give, but for setting up a wireless network with a plethora of other items, that is a different issue whereby stating that “I don’t know your situation, so I can’t comment” is not misleading or is it avoiding, but respecting them and pointing them in the correct direction.
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June 27, 2005 at 9:18 am #3177236
Actually…
by martimus · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
based on my perception of what you’ve written you are the one who seemingly thinks that all end users are ignorant of technology. In my opinion there are an awful lot of people who understand just enough about computers to be dangerous.
In my opinion the end users deserve to be given a plausible reason rather than placated with mis-information and hyperbole. If you, as a technology resource, cannot or do not want to involve yourself in troubleshooting their problems tell them so. To me telling them that you’re unfamiliar with their configuration and any assistance would be a “shot in the dark” is somewhat inaccurate and misleading.
I, for one, try to have a life outside of work. As such many of my evenings are committed to family, friends, and spending time with my dogs. If someone wants me to look at their computer I tell them that my evenings are booked. I’ll be happy to look at their computer for them but it’ll be when I have time not when they have time. If my availability is not consistant with them then my recommendation is one of many local computer stores.
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June 28, 2005 at 7:13 am #3178251
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by the admiral · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Actually…
When I was going through all of the social and psychology classes through college, there was one factor that came up.
No one likes an arrogant smart butt. When you tell them that it is on your terms not theirs, it shows arrogance, so who in the heck would bother asking you later?
I like spending time with my family as well. When someone tells me that they know every configuration of every Personal Computer on the planet, they are full of crap, plain and simple. There are party quirks of every single system out there and a blanket statement saying that something is inaccurate or misleading is avoiding the facts.
The fact of the matter is that there is a correct way of letting someone down by pointing them in the right direction or looking like a jerk. My comments show that you care about the person, and you give them assitance in pointing them in the proper direction to get the help that they need rather than let them hang there until such time as you have time to deal with them.
However, that is your opinion, and since my answer works 100% of the time, I can take my answer from the opinion rack and put it on the policy rack without a guilt trip.
One other thing. I am glad that you agree with me that all end users are ignorant with technology with your statement: “…awful lot of people who understand just enough about computers to be dangerous.”
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June 20, 2005 at 10:35 am #3173222
Backside business!
by admin · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I have had this alot over the years, my response is this… I’d love to help! I can’t accommodate you on business hours of course, but I don’t charge and arm and a leg- just $xx and hour, and I’ll put in the queue for after hours or weekends. After the humms and hahs, you can say, well, there is a service depot in town for your machine, why don’t you take it there?
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June 20, 2005 at 12:30 pm #3175919
Obligations
by zen37 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
One of my friends had a neat idea.
He shows his MCSE card and tells them that the MCSE rules obligates him to charge for any and all work he does at an acceptable minimum rate.So far, he hasn’t been busy all that much outside of work!!!
I don’t do that anymore. What i hated the most is when people would ask for pirated copies of software and they would look at you funny when you told then it was illegal and you couldn’t do that. Like all IT people are expected to be thieves or something. geez!
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June 20, 2005 at 12:46 pm #3175914
“Free” Tech Advice…
by beads · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obligations
Short of wearing one of those: “No, I won’t fix your computer…” shirts around the office. You might be tempted to put a small, sign on your desk or what not. Just large enough for people to see but not explosively so. Yes, someone really does make a T-shirt with those words printed on it. Thought about wearing one to the next family get together where I am usually barraged worse than anything at work.
No, the PC (Politically Correct) thing to do would be to follow Admiral’s advice. That is without a doubt the most succint way I have ever heard to avoid the perils of the ‘free advice’ dilema. Of course if they get really upset I remind them that the advice I could give would cost them many years of training and learning for the privilidge. So, even for us, its not at all free now is it?
– beads
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June 20, 2005 at 1:09 pm #3175908
we we are..
by jaqui · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obligations
all suposed to be thieves.
after all how else are they supposed to get free software?ignore the fact it’s us that create it so we are stealing from ourselves ( in a sense )
we should support piracy of software….[/sarcasm]
since I’m open source, I just say go download the sources and compile it.
if it’s a commercial app, why does the company need it?
I ain’t spending money I don’t have to. -
June 22, 2005 at 8:52 pm #3179009
ADVICE
by mjd420nova · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Obligations
This is a problem for all IT souls. I’m slanted towards hardware and will give it all for free.
As much advice as anyone doing it by osmosis.
I refer to it as the “laying on of hands”. To
truly bless the needy, they must bring it to
my presence and say the magic words. I will
do “work” for friends and agree ahead of time that no money passes hands, as the blessing are to be repaid inkind. BARTER I gain many services I could otherwise not afford. I barter
with my auto mechanic, dentist, doctor, babysitter, and grocer. My regular rates are
$125. arrival and $95. an hour with one hour minimum. I do everything from printers to
monitors and systems. Many things are dependent
upon the age of the machine and available parts.
So far, the best customer I have is the dentist
as I feel I’m getting the best side of the deal,
but I would never have suggested Barter, He brought it up…
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June 20, 2005 at 2:16 pm #3175864
no free lunches
by fbeechwood · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
As a school Technology specialist and Computer repair teacher I have a solution
Tell them what I say, ” I will be happy to have one of my student assistants to assist you.”They usually recoil in horror and beat a hasty retreat!
This is not the nicest way tro handle the problem but it is effective-
June 23, 2005 at 4:58 am #3178941
I Don’t Usually Have A Problem
by knightheart · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to no free lunches
Whenever coworkers ask me to look at their systems, it’s usually the same thing: Spyware. I wipe out as much as possible, and then put their hard drives (as slaves) in a system I have specifically for eliminating spyware, and clean it up all the way. It usually doesn’t take that long, so I give them a REALLY reasonable price, and I haven’t had any complaints. No one has expected anything for free….yet.
I worked on my boss’s machine and didn’t charge, but she gave me a couple gift certificates for a restaurant I liked anyway. And since it was her machine, I didn’t have a problem doing it during work.
One thing I do steer away from, and that’s building machines for people. As soon as Windows crashes once, even if it’s because they’ve stupidly installed a ton of spyware and have no anti-virus or anything, they complain that the machine isn’t right. So now if they ask, I tell them to get either Alienware or Dell (feh), for no other reason than if they have a problem, they can call tech support.
Of course, I’ve had people buy the Dell and then ask me for help when something goes wrong with it. That’s when I can say “sorry, but I didn’t build the machine, and since you’ve paid for Dell’s warranty, you should ask them.” Sometimes when reminded that they paid for something, they tend to want to get their “money’s worth.”
Never do it for free once, because then it’s expected forever. People will get a lot more offended having to pay for something after it was free then if that’s how it’s been all along.
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June 20, 2005 at 5:09 pm #3175807
Don’t know
by choppit · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Some years ago (before I made a living from IT), if I asked IT related questions of our IT support guy I’d always get the answer “I dunno mate”. At the time I wondered how he could perform his job function whilst apparently knowing so little. Now I’m in the same position I understand why he always played dumb.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:29 am #3178959
Could be….
by mrshickman · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Don’t know
Heck….if our “IT specialist” said that, I’d believe him. 😉 I’d never ask him for advice, because I know more about it than he does. Funny how “expert” someone becomes to the ignorant when they hang out a shingle for a computer business, whether they have any credentials or experience or not.
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June 20, 2005 at 5:59 pm #3175799
I just ask the which version of
by tony hopkinson · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
VMS are they using.
It’s quite easy to let yourself get dragged into this sort of thing. If it’s a mate I’ll go round try and help and sink a few beers. If it’ the missus’ sister best friends mother in law then Ill book atime to do it and then be unfortunatley too busy-
June 21, 2005 at 3:02 am #3175720
E-Z PC, No freebie’s
by astral_traveller · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to I just ask the which version of
I allways tell people who ask for “free” computer support, YES I can certainly help them for free, just as soon as they can put me onto a Plumber who can sort my plumbing for free. Oh and by the way when did they last go to their work for “Free”.
PS. Check out the rates and call out charges of Plumbers. Are we not the same ? Electron plumbing in a precise manner.-
June 21, 2005 at 1:30 pm #3175388
Well Said
by aceskaraoke · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to E-Z PC, No freebie’s
I have a business running karaoke, hence the name. I found myself being invited to many social gatherings after I started my business, always with the dread “and if you’d like to bring your equipment and play music, that’d be great”. Of course I would, just like a dentist would love to pull some teeth and do a root canal before going back for seconds at the buffet. It took a while, but I learned that “no” is a perfectly acceptable answer for many questions.
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November 19, 2005 at 9:12 am #3117407
Excellent
by mikemerch1 · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to I just ask the which version of
With family and close friends I say if you are still running Win 98 I can no longer help you MS not longer maintains it. I will help you upgrade…
XP I will tell them first before I will even look at their PC. Update XP, Update Virus scanner and Anti Spware.Run them . Call me if they still have problems.
Friends of friends and the milkman’s brother in law …sorry
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June 21, 2005 at 6:27 am #3175643
New Law Idea
by ed woychowsky · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
When dealing with those that have never read a manual in their lives I usually explain my idea about a five-day waiting before somebody can buy a computer. During this five-day waiting period the government researches the buyer?s background to determine if their having a computer would be a burden on society. After all, I explain, if someone is too dumb to read the manual, they?re too dumb to own a computer.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:37 am #3178827
5-day waiting period for IT techs
by dumbuser · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to New Law Idea
Perhaps there should be a 5-day waiting period for IT people who don’t understand the nature of customer service……sounds a awful lot like American automobile workers in the 1970’s—very smug. Look where that got them.
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June 21, 2005 at 6:36 am #3175638
Can help advance you
by jdclyde · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
By helping people higher up the food chain, this helps you get friends in high places.
this can only be good news when it comes to raises and advancement.
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June 21, 2005 at 1:36 pm #3175385
True
by aceskaraoke · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Can help advance you
I find that when I take care of people who are in a position to help me, they generally come through when I am in need. It also matters the manner in which I am approached. If the person seems genuinely aware that I am doing them a favor of not so small nature and are thankful for my donating time and energy, I am much more inclined to help than if they expect me to be Mr. Instant Answer and Fix It for them.
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June 21, 2005 at 5:04 pm #3175316
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June 22, 2005 at 5:52 am #3174839
Doesn’t have to be higher-ups
by dmambo · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Can help advance you
C’mon, we can help those who might not be “higher up the food chain”. In reality, the help most people need doesn’t take too long to give. As long as nobody’s taking advantage of my good nature, I’ll usually help them out regardless of their social/work position.
Most of us geeks spend a significant amount of our free time pursuing geek activities anyway. Why not let that time benefit someone who needs the help? 🙂 (That doesn’t mean you have to be a doormat. Everything has its limits.)
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June 23, 2005 at 5:32 am #3178914
But
by rdover · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Can help advance you
What if you gave verbal advice and they didn’t follow your verbal advice and did something wrong and messed up their PC?
Or what if you go to their house and in attempting to fix it, something unrelated happens and their machine crashes, or two days later it crashes? Their going to say “You came over to my house and broke my computer.” It can get real ugly real quickly!
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July 7, 2005 at 4:29 pm #3183307
But
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to But
It’s rediculous to not help someone on the off chance that the worst thing that can happen will happen. That’s like saying you won’t get out of bed in the morning on the off chance that you will twist your ankle the wrong way, fall and crack your head open.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:59 am #3178883
At last some reason
by gary · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Can help advance you
Thanks for the realistic post. Sure everything has limits. It takes little time to recommend people download adaware or run an antivirus. Recommend outside help where appropriate. You want to be viewed by upper management as helpful and knowledgeble. I can tell you that after surviving multiple downsizings and company buyouts, those who aren’t viewed favorably are no longer here. Didn’t you say one of those asking for advice is a partner? Sure, don’t offer any advice, and pick up a copy of the help wanted ads while you’re at it.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:48 am #3177951
I used to do that…
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Can help advance you
I only got screwed.
It turns out in our Corporate environment that helping people higher up the totem pole than you with their personal machines devalues the importance of IT to the company.
They don’t give me free training in Accounting…Aseptic Supervision…Tetra Mechanics… They DO see the value in these things, but not the computers that make it happen.
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November 19, 2005 at 10:08 am #3117398
Not necessarily
by coyotenm · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Can help advance you
I’ve found that where you work, that may gain you some goodwill–as long as everything you do works well, but not advancement. In fact, in some weird twist of logic, it may do the opposite. Your superiors will think you are a nice person, but somehow it says you are not management material. They aren’t looking for nice. So if IT help is your way of doing good for the world, go for it. But it won’t get you much in the way of promotions.
One exception: if you volunteer IT work for an organization, that’s a great reference, a way to build professional contacts, and a great way for a beginner to get needed experience for a full IT job.
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June 21, 2005 at 7:29 am #3175607
Keep it free!
by dmambo · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
A lot of times, people who ask me for help try to pay me for it afterwards. By not taking their payment, they usually (if they have any class at all) hesitate before asking me again because they don’t want to put me out too much. Of course, there are those folks who will take advantage of you. In those cases, I just tell them that I do not have the time. No other explanation is needed.
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June 21, 2005 at 11:21 am #3175466
exceptions
by hugh_vagn · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Keep it free!
I like some of the responds on thread. There are some exceptions when some decent co-workers need your help & pick your brain. Who knows one of these days, you might be asking for their help and expertise. I have fellow employee who are honest and willing to help (ie fix cars) for a reduced rates.
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June 21, 2005 at 1:40 pm #3175384
You get what you give
by aceskaraoke · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to exceptions
When you give a little, you often find that it comes back to you. Depending on who you help.
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June 21, 2005 at 4:30 pm #3175320
Many users treat you like a doctor or laywer
by jmgarvin · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to You get what you give
You are there for free advice and help. They think you WANT to constantly work and give out free advice. They think you don’t want a weekend or time off….
Aren’t you ALWAYS thinking about these things? Aren’t you ALWAYS wanting to work for hours on end at someones house (or on their home computer in your house) trying to figure out WHAT they really want and need?
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June 23, 2005 at 8:43 am #3177962
Many people also treat you like a Pizza Delivery
by beads · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Many users treat you like a doctor or laywer
Years of being asked for free IT advice, especially on weekends often makes me feel more like a Pizza Delivery than a Physician or Lawyer.
Yep! Put it over there. Here ya go!
– beads
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June 23, 2005 at 11:23 am #3177774
Paid off with a pizza
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Many people also treat you like a Pizza Delivery
I’d driven a ways to help small biz with problem. They knew my consulting rates.
Then they tried to buy me off with a pizza.
I told them no thanks, and got the check. -
June 23, 2005 at 4:07 am #3178967
Hard Core
by the hard way · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to You get what you give
I see a lot of people are really hard core about this. I believe what goes around, comes around. Helping those who give you a reason to have a job can’t hurt the image. Advice is one thing, on-site service may be expecting too much.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:48 am #3178896
Free ?
by thomas.lattimer · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Hard Core
I am regularly asked to help with PC problems. I have no hesitation in attempting to assist someone without any thought of recompense, but then I am not running a business, or business centre, so I do not have a profit incentive. Many times people in very desparate situations ask me if I can help, mainly with try to recover misplaced, or missing, information. I help to the best of my ability, not expecting any reward, but sometimes a book voucher, or a cake, or some such other thing arrives at my desk. I feel good, I have helped a person who may have lost a lot of work, or be faced with a long reovery path, they feel great, and my boss gets a nice letter saying how good I am. Where’s the problem with that? However if I needed to earn a living doing that I would probably starve. Different situations require different tactics.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:49 am #3177750
If its not your job
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Hard Core
to fix their home PCs on company time you shouldn’t be doing this. If you are willing to do this, be sure is OK with your boss.
Even free advice can cause an unknowledgable worker to do something bad or goof up your suggestion. Free advice for what to buy is 1) freely available on web, you shouldn’t be telling them, 2) can get them po’d if they follow your advice and buy something they don’t like or doesn’t work
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June 25, 2005 at 10:35 pm #3176616
Exceptions agreed, but how far
by wrc it dude · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to exceptions
We had an accountant at one stage kept asking for help and expertise with problems that he had caused because the Government is out to get him. I always helped him and all of my colleagues without question.
Then one day when I needed some financial advice, he had the hide to say no problem, should take more that about 2 or 3 hours to sort and the rate is ?100 and hour. I declined.
The next time he had issues with his personal laptop, the only answer possible was shouldn’t take more than two hours but the rate is ?150 an hour.
He did get the point immediately but thought the rate was too high, until I explained that I knew exactly how to fix the problem and was he prepared to pay slightly lower rates that will probably twice as due to infamiliarity with his environment?
The point here is that all of my other co-workers I am willing to help, (office machines are an obligation, personal machines good will), as I know they will oblige me with their expertise when I need it.
You will find out soon enough who is taking advantage.
If they are persitant ask them to bring the machine in and leave it sitting for a week or two, if it is that urgent they take it else where because you will obviously be too busy to look at it.
It’s funny how most get the point of this as well.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:20 am #3178771
Member of my community
by Thorarinn · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Keep it free!
Living in a small community (60 miles from the nearest town with any sort of commercial computer support) I’ve been asked many times to “fix” computers.
Most often it’s a question of removing spyware and viruses, then installing patches to the operating system(!) and explaining why some sort of virus protection and a decent firewall is a good idea.
I’ve never asked for payment but none the less, I’ve often been paid. I never set my price and always accept what they feel it’s worth. (I’m also careful never to promise something I can’t deliver.)
The payment? Anything from $30 (after driving 15 miles to a farm to remove a corrupt e-mail via web-interface) to a whole lamb, fresh from the slaughter-house (after removing some spyware for the second time from the same laptop).
Why do people pay me? Because they say they “want to be able to call you again”. They know I’ve taken the time to help them out (sometimes many, many hours) and most realize it would cost many times more to take their computer to town.
I realize my situation is somewhat unusual and I do understand those of you who are reluctant to sort out your co-worker’s mess (been there, done that).
But apart from being able to put food on the table (quite literally!) my greatest satisfaction comes from the gratitude of those “clueless” people. To me, that’s what makes a “community”, taking part and helping each other out. (TechRepublic, anyone…?)
If anyone attempted to earn a living in the area by “fixing” computer, I wouldn’t hesitate to point people their way. In the absence of a real alternative, I’m quite happy to be my community’s computer “geek”.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:25 pm #3176910
That’s good
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Member of my community
if you never got anything you might not repeat visit. you might not be able to afford to, it costs you time and money to drive somewhere and help someone.
doesn’t have to be money. you help avoid excessive govt by using barter. unfortunately, in cities people don’t want to swap anything much of the time, just want it for free.
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June 21, 2005 at 12:26 pm #3175415
Do what they do…
by winkyx · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Just tell them that the manufacturer of the machine is usually the best source for information, seeing as how much of the installation is proprietary (he he) and to just give ’em a call. Of course you must act as if this is the most natural thing in the world, even though it will become the bane of their existance. Better them than you; you never know, tech support might actually get it fixed. Easier them telling ’em to reload their OS than you.
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June 21, 2005 at 4:38 pm #3175319
post to intranet site for company user groups
by davemori · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
We post recommendations to an internal user group discussion page on our intranet, with links to various vendor sites, and Q&A type stuff with huge legal disclaimers on each page.
Whenever someone asks, we point them there.
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June 22, 2005 at 6:37 am #3174818
Be like the lawyers
by paul · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Send them a bill afterwards. They will never ask you again.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:06 am #3178876
Or bill them up front…
by mswanberg · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Be like the lawyers
Just say, “well, I usually charge my friends $100 an hour to work on their stuff… but I tell you what, I’ll do it for you for $90…”
🙂
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June 22, 2005 at 9:42 am #3174720
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June 22, 2005 at 9:48 am #3174716
This is SO easy…
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I think all IT people have this problem at some point.
So do what I do:
Act like they’re imposing on you (body language, tone of voice etc…shouldn’t be hard to do because they ARE)Tell them you normally charge $100/hour for consulting and off-site jobs.
OR:
Repeat after me:
“You know dude, I’d like to help you but I’ve already been through this a million times already. If I give you advice, then suddenly I’m responsible for every little thing that goes wrong with your machine and all of a sudden I’m roped into driving 40min to your house at 10pm on a Saturday night because you fat-fingered your password and it’s somehow my fault…
Dude, your FRIENDSHIP,…and my Marriage… are far too important to me than giving you free computer advice. Here’s a number of a guy I know in the Valley…”Works EVERY time.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:11 am #3178931
You’re so right…
by legalalien · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to This is SO easy…
This is absolutely the best post here. Come on, we all know that in reality there’s no such thing as 30-second help. Once you provide free help, they always come back for more. After a year or two, when you’re only getting a few hours sleep a night because you now have a reputation as everyone’s best friend and have a home full of other peoples hardware, you just try and turn it around. You’ll then find our how quickly those friends disappear.
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June 23, 2005 at 9:08 am #3177919
Ain’t it though?
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to You’re so right…
I noticed if you scroll up to the top you can see how I’m getting flamed like an AOL’er for suggesting that you mention your “normal fee”.
Hey, I used to give out free advice. I used to think it would advance my career, I needed the experience etc. etc. etc.
I got burnt far more times than it takes the average person to get cynical.Nowadays I restrict my “free advice” to software recommendations, manufacturers, and reputable technicians working locally.
I have a family who wants me at HOME when I’m not working, so when someone gets insistant, I WILL charge them $100/hour and not feel bad about it.
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June 22, 2005 at 12:38 pm #3174633
It will take time….
by bkl.thomas · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I send them an email stating that I am not responsible for anything that could happen to destroy data or the machine including theft and that they have to bring me their entire machine and hook it up in the common storage facility we have and I will look at it when I have time. Oh and the general turn around time is 3-4 months for an urgent project?.this usually works.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:17 am #3178966
A successful reply
by johnshell · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I experience the same requests from co-workers and friends who need help with their personal equipment and programs. I found a way to answer their questions and not offend them or immerse myself in ongoing problems and remedies. I direct the folks who ask me questions to web sites where they can get free help, like AllExperts.com. I tell them to go there, click on “Computing/Technology” and follow the links. The volunteers at that site will provide them an answer within three days. This provides the questioners an answer but keeps me out of the loop. If they insist or persist in asking me then I tell them I have a policy similar to lawyers, one free consultation then it’s on the clock at $100 per hour.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:19 am #3178853
Get a Dell
by sirlanse · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to A successful reply
Tell them to get a Dell, they have free help
from India.
Unless they are Gay, then
tell them to get a Mac.If they insist, ask them a lot of background
questions about the situation.
When they cannot answer these, offer to do
on site service at $100 per hour.-
June 23, 2005 at 8:58 am #3177938
Used to say get a Gateway
by beads · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Get a Dell
Before Michael Dell got his company really off the ground I used to say similar things about Gateway.
Now for gays. For some reason all my gay nieghbors use PCs not Macs. Though I never had to think about it till you brought it up. LOL.
– beads
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June 23, 2005 at 2:49 pm #3176955
Say dell gain an enemy
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Get a Dell
read resellerratings.com or epinions.com or bizrating.com ratings of dell and you won’t recommend them to a friend.
hp and gateway almost as bad
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June 23, 2005 at 4:18 am #3178965
Be nice
by tekdoc · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
“Prescription without Diagnosis is Malpractice.”
That usually gets them laughing.
Then hand them your card, or the card of someone who makes house visits.
For executives and managers in your company, you should look for agreement that this is part of your job. Home computers are extensions of their job, and you need to keep them realtively safe. Of course you are compensated for the time involved.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:19 am #3178964
What a miserable lot of buggers you are …
by merchantbanker · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Remember now, if you are going to be this mean spirited and petty you forfeit the right to ask anyone anything about anything you don’t know (without payment) ever again. That mechanic friend of yours ? Forget it. And the guy that works at the garden place and knows plants ? No chance. That guy down the street that is a tax person. No, that’s it. No cash, no help. You said it.
Nope, you are on your own now pal. Whatever happened to being a nice person and applying a little Karma to your life ?? Jeez.
The Merchant.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:53 am #3178945
have to agree
by dugga6 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to What a miserable lot of buggers you are …
Yeah, I agree with merchantbanker – people come to you because they respect your opinion – be thankful your needed. Who wants to be the surly office grump who no one wants to talk to for fear of having their head bitten off?
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June 23, 2005 at 4:54 am #3178942
Ahh, you’re right
by dmambo · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to What a miserable lot of buggers you are …
We really should take these requests more in stride and look to help folks out more. But you’ll probably get flamed for saying it if this thread has any legs!!!
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June 23, 2005 at 5:26 am #3178918
THANK YOU!!!
by ddissent · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to What a miserable lot of buggers you are …
I like you – YOU get it – The rest of these greedy idiots surely don’t. That’s ok because you and I? we can look at ourselves in the mirror and actually LIKE what we see. These other “people” get to live their lives picking up every penny they find on the sidewalk … wishing it were a dime.
– greed is the gas that fuels the car of the lonely
DVD
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June 23, 2005 at 7:54 am #3178733
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by the admiral · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to THANK YOU!!!
I don’t know. Is it greed or is it work ethic? Stopping and on the company time giving information out on a personal matter?
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June 23, 2005 at 11:27 am #3177771
Neither
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
For me, my boss has the same problem, so he discourages “wasting company time giving out non-company advice”. And I agree with him. It all depends on who’s doing the asking.
When I’m NOT at work, well that’s MY free time and I don’t like to talk shop or work for free. Sorry, I must be a total a-hole with bad karma…
My wife and kids are MUCH more valuable to me than fixing my mothers-hairdresser’s-cousin’s-roomates’ computer, or even my best friend’s.
I don’t charge $100/hour because I’m greedy.
I charge $100/hour because I don’t want to do it.
If they want me to blow time away from family, then they gotta renumerate me how I see fit.Strangely, people can and do cough up the $100. But most of the time it’s the best deterrant I can think of.
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June 23, 2005 at 9:54 pm #3176844
depends
by macghee · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
If I’m at work on a project, I’ve got to charge my time to what I’m working on. If you need advice on something personal, then I can’t give it. Come back at break or lunch and we’ll talk when my time is my own. If I spend 30 minutes talking to you about the problem with your home computer and the boss catches me, I have to charge Do Not Pay Absent or risk being fired for mischarging. If we talk during lunch or after work, no problem.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:22 pm #3176913
If I was greedy
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to THANK YOU!!!
then I’d help them and get paid.
I value my time OFF work.Sounds kind of communist russia years ago, people off work were ‘expected’ to ‘donate’ large amounts of their time building the moscow subway.
Do you think that tax guy or car repair guy helps people for free who have done nothing for him?
If you want to help the truly helpless that’s great. Some people are simply clueless about computers but have the resources to pay to fix, and of course if anyone can get something for free they want to.
So people helping for free without any barter DOES devalue PC and IT work. Doesn’t mean you can’t be nice off work and do it for someone special. It’s more special if you only do it occasionally.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:39 am #3178906
Finally someone with compassion
by wdeckert · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to What a miserable lot of buggers you are …
Do Unto Others is a good moto. If you can help with plain simple advice, then do so. If the problem is extremely technical, tell them. If they act like they can’t even understand the answer, refer them to web sites, computer stores, or hot lines for help. We really do need to help those “computer challanged individuals” if they seek our help. Who knows they might be helpful to you someday, or provide promotional opportunities.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:26 am #3178844
Right On
by mrmilt · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to What a miserable lot of buggers you are …
It’s not someone trying to get something for free. All the people I help have offered monetary compensation. They know they’ll get a truthful answer from me and a good job done if service is needed. My compensation is a thankful human. If they really insist on compensating me, I tell them to donate to a charity or remember this when someone asks for their assistance.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:06 am #3178795
Well said…..
by danag429 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to What a miserable lot of buggers you are …
Very well put. You will feel exploited if you are an exploiting type of person. If you’re easy going, you might make less money but you’ll live a longer and happier life.
It’s all in your priorities.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:21 am #3178963
What a bunch of cheap whiners
by steve.thornburg · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
What’s the problem with helping people? I get asked for help on a fairly regular basis; co-workers and friends mostly, and family sometimes too. I have no problem lending a hand, and in return I get help if and when needed.
Don’t you earn a good enough living? I simply don’t see the need to ask for money in return for helping a friend.
I did not have time to read all the posts, but the first 10 I read were all negative. You sound like a bunch of immature egotistical spoiled brats. I sure hope that many of the posts were positive, and that I simpyl missed them.
Lastly, I would like to point out that many of us, and probably even many of the complainers, offer *free* advice here online to people in need, so what exactly is your problem???
Teamwork, folks. Teamwork. Don’t be so cheap.-
June 23, 2005 at 5:36 am #3178908
oops
by jb1 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to What a bunch of cheap whiners
Posted incorrectly. Have since corrected my mistake. Do not need any free advice on what I did wrong. I figured it out on my own.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:32 pm #3176907
not friends
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to What a bunch of cheap whiners
but co-workers.
they WANT to pay you to fix it sometimes
And I consider it whining to think that everyone else should work for free.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:23 am #3178962
Why
by haylocks · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Why would you not want to help out colleagues?
I had so much support from tecchies when I was tech-ignorant in sales in DEC that I now run my own PC support company.I help out my colleagues who are in the state I was 25 years ago – I usually, smilingly, ensure that I receive an untaxable bottle or two of Shiraz. And it’s nice to know they prefer my help rather than some others of my colleagues!
Staff who work together for their common benefit give their company a performance boost. If you’re you’re a curmugeon, don’t expect anything from them either.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:21 am #3178924
curmudgeon?
by carterdn · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Why
Geez I’ve got to break out the Webster’s just to understand the post? Crusty and ill tempered heh? Perhaps. I’m not sure the old part applies judging from the previous messages on hiring prospects for the middle aged. At least I learned something today, even if my wishes are that I shall refrain from using it.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:25 am #3178961
Free Advice and Help gets you A LOT of political capital
by jeffh · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I try keep my free help to a minimum. If it is an important person or someone I may need a favor from I will make the extra effort to help. The downside is that I try very hard to say no to anyone. If I “check out” a PC or laptop at work I will never accept cash. A donation of some delicious Heinikein is alway’s appreciated. The point is that you ARE the good IT guy not the jerk IT guy with the smarta$$ answers. Treat people with respect and it will always come back to you. It has helped me in my position tremendously.
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June 23, 2005 at 2:55 pm #3176953
Helping others makes life wonderful, but being bothered makes things ugly
by hank · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Free Advice and Help gets you A LOT of political capital
It’s not about free advice or helping people. It’s about being bothered. When you are at middle of writing codes or system/network troubleshooting, a five second interrupt may break the concentration and you may have to spend 10 minutes to resume the task. Sometimes it’s not we don’t want to help. Mostly the stress comes from peopel asking at the wrong time or the wrong questions. I love helping people who have done some homework helping themselves before asking others’ help, and I feel it’s worth for me to spend some time in my life helping them. Not everyone is worth to help if you know what I mean. Many people think that being with their family is more important than helping others, but some people may not agree. As long as it’s you that making the decision to help people, being with your family, or doing something else, please live with it and do not complain. It’s not about money or helping people for free; it’s about if you do it happily or not, and everyone is responsible for the decision he/she makes. If saying “no” to others makes you unhappy, don’t say it, help them, and do not complain. No matter how good the excuse is, it won’t work if not speaking out. Firday is coming, and that makes me happy. Everyone has a great coming weekend!
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June 23, 2005 at 4:26 am #3178960
Deal with the partner first
by karenc · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Tell the partner you are starting a home business dispensing IT to the needy for a small fee, outside of work and won’t affect work in any way of course.
Then as the partner has had all this free help from you it’s only fair the partner helps you run your business by giving you advice and solving your problems.
Once the partner decides this is a bad idea you can legitemately do the same and further you can apply it to the other ‘customers’ with the partners backing.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:29 am #3178958
Say YES
by joseph.r.piazza · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Dear freozraelised:
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June 23, 2005 at 4:34 am #3178957
New Policy
by arkous · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Try to have a policy created where you work that does not allow the IT staff to consult/work on the personal PCs of members of the organization.
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July 14, 2005 at 7:29 pm #3188539
“I don’t do Windows”
by gary.woodman · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to New Policy
I wish I could say that. But everyone knows I do “do” Windows. Thanks Bill, it’s been a pretty stable career for 20 years now, following you around tidying up your doo-doos.
I *do* say “I don’t have a Windows CD”. It’s true, too. People who have character weaknesses that cause them to wreck Windows systems really need a Mac, or a PC with Linux (or a typewriter). I give away Linux CDs 🙂 People I help, in or out of work, get my standard rant about how they’re not doing themselves any favours by sticking with Windows, that this will happen again, that there are villains out there on the Net attacking their systems as we speak, that they’re fodder for the upgrade mill.
PCs are too complicated. Even the normal care and feeding required to keep Windows functional is rocket science to most people. I’m disinclined to be a self-appointed (and largely unpaid) MS support dude. People who *really* want my help, as distinct from a cut-and-shut repair, will be changing to Linux. I do that for free 🙂
Gary
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June 23, 2005 at 4:35 am #3178955
Say YES
by joseph.r.piazza · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Dear freozraelised: If you are a High Level empolyee, you are in a position of trust and human narture dictates we should go to people we trust versus people just trying to make a sale. And as an high level employee you should want to help your fellow workers and partner, so gladly offer advice. If you want keep it short and simple. With computers being so inexpensive, that should be easy to do. Because once you say NO. People will not trust you, you may lose some friends and “whatever ties” you may have with high level management. Just keep it short and sweet. Personnaly the negative feelings I stated, I had against my IT group when they refused me.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:48 am #3178947
it just diplomacy
by jez · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say YES
All situations are different, but i think it is good for our (IT peps) reputation to be approachable and offer basic advice…
I try and be helpful and if people get too probing the geek in me comes out and i tell them
“of course you wouldnt have this problem with linux”. 😉Also any mention of home visits is met with “so your going to cook for me”, or “that’ll cost you few beers”.
The bottom line is be honest. If something is going to take me 2 hours (OS install) then i tell them it is a big job and i can / cant fit it in.
We are all only human and people will respect you more for your honesty.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:40 am #3178954
What’s wrong with yes a few times?
by lsa · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I get that a lot here and I always try to help as much as possible. Sometimes I’m swmaped and can’t and they understand that. But I will help and I tell them there’s no charge, even when they offer to pay. These are co-workers and people I like and won’t take money for helping them. Some of you are just plain mean-spirited and nasty. Get over it.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:21 am #3177775
Since you asked…
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to What’s wrong with yes a few times?
Apparently you don’t get taken advantage of much. Perhaps you’re new to the field. Perhaps you just are a masochist…
The vast majority of us who have been in the field any length of time quickly figure out that giving out free advice more often than not includes basically working for free.
Not trade.
Not barter.
Free.
Information is a valuable commodity. I am more than willing to trade it with my accountant, handyman, electrician, fellow IT pros.Giving it away may be nice, but the recipient (whether they know it or not) is being rude and thoughtless. At the core, it’s also Socialist.
I’m a non-apologetic Capitalist. Dad said “Make a living with your brain, not your back!”
I don’t see why I have to give away information to be “nice” when experience tells me I might get roped into spending hours of my valuable free time and risking relationships with the client.
I have had a simple question turn into 48+ hours of free work in another city. How? He was a friend and a “Lodge brother”. He took advantage of that and guilted me into being his IT monkey-boy thinking that a half a dozen beers were adequate compensation.
There wasn’t any graceful way to get out of it without having to end the relationship entirely.It’s an extreme example, I know. But SO many people I thought were my friends have tried with various success to bend me over like this.
You’ll find out your true friends cough up at least a $20 without having to be asked.
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July 15, 2005 at 12:50 pm #3188267
Rude
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Since you asked…
To consider someone asking for advice, free or otherwise as being rude is a matter of personal judgment. I personally think to withhold information that can help another is rude, except in extreme cases. Most of us that consider ourselves decent human beings are more than willing to help another human being. It’s that I have all the information and I’m going to keep it to myself mentality that (in my opinion) set so many up for failure, and to the same extent I think it’s borne out of some sort of insecurity… If I share this information I won’t be needed, or I can be replaced.
It’s a sad commentary of where we are as a society when people are only willing to help another if they think there is something (material) to be gained. I don’t see how we as individuals can be harmed or damaged by helping another. Of course there are times when helping is just not practical for whatever reason, but to adopt that philosophy as a general rule is truly sad.
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June 23, 2005 at 3:36 pm #3176939
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by the admiral · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to What’s wrong with yes a few times?
Yes a few times leads to “Awww Come on, you did it before…” then it winds up being an all the time job.
As I have told people that brought in their personal home terminal workstations, “I don’t want to ever see the machine again under any circumstances, know it is in your home, or any other information about it after this point.” Even with that, they come back and ask information about the PC and I generally give them a bad look and they go away.
The situation is purely an ethical decision when you take all of the good and bad emotions out of the situation. First, it is unethical and generally against company policies for them to ask you about their personal systems or bring them in to be repaired. It ranks along the lines of running a personal business using the company telephone, or selling items on ebay during times that you are supposed to be making a marketing presentation for the company you are getting a bi-weekly paycheck for.
Second, there is a level of ethics that get violated not doing the companies business, but personal business. Technically speaking, personal business is supposed to be done on your break, so asking for personal support during business hours could make you a target for getting fired.
BUT you are human, and you can be human to everyone else, and give them simple answers to the “no duh” questions, but the more advanced questions, such as the one I was asked the other day on how to get the wireless working on their wireless router with encryption and security, I simply told them the fastest and cheapest way to do it is to read the instructions, or if they want it done themselves, that a local PC store that offers home visits. Outside of that, simple every once and a while is OK, but the advanced stuff, I stick by my previous post, refer them to someone who can dedicate the time to it who is a working for food.
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July 15, 2005 at 1:18 pm #3188253
Grasping
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
If anyone is using awww come, you should question this individuals maturity level and/or what it is about you that makes them feel this approach will work. Pick one.
Yes it demonstrates poor work ethics to bring a personal computer to work assuming that there is not a pre-arrangement with management to do so, but to say that asking a question demonstrates poor ethics is a stretch. Anyone that truly believes this should consider taking courses in organizational behavior. Granted our employers pay us to perform our jobs, but anyone in the work force knows (or should know) that there are some behaviors/actions that “most” employers don’t have a problem with in the interest of maintaining a decent quality of life and harmonious work environment. Using your perception, it would be unethical to call your spouse using the company’s phone to tell him/her that you’ll be working late. It’s the employers phone and the employers phone bill, but you’d be hard pressed to find one that had a problem with that.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:44 am #3178951
GET A MAC
by shuubz · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
there’s my free advice. that particular advice is free all day, every day. anything longer than 2 minutes is billed as a consultation (PC-related work is $50 US per hour, network-related is $75 US per hour). i have close to 20 years of experience, and access to that sort of expertise costs money. i give a discount already, i won’t give time away any more. i have no time to spare these days.
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July 15, 2005 at 1:28 pm #3188249
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June 23, 2005 at 4:44 am #3178950
For those with side businesses
by neokinetic · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Since I own and operate an outside computer business I usually tell them the basics, refer them to google.com and give them a business card (gives them something to try when they get home and they feel empowered and like you are trying to help them)…when they come back (and they usually do) I setup an appointment and state my rates…if they don’t agree to the fees they will never bother you again
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June 23, 2005 at 4:46 am #3178949
Opportunity!!
by gauravbahal · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Probably you need to be an entreprenuer now. Get a buddy. As soon as someone asks for advice say ” Gee, I wish I could help. But hey, I know a great guy who can help you out. Simply Brilliant fellow, he has his own business and runs a small company (that indicates money will be charged)” :-)) Give your buddy’s number. Who ofcourse charges for work and splits the proceeds with you.
Bingo. You will rake in some moolah and those who dont wanna pay will seek advice some place else. Two birds with one stone.Also, you can decide on who to help and who not to. There are times when help goes a long way. Remember most of our work as human beings is done because we network, because we know people who know people who can help us in times of need. So use the above ploy sparingly.
Zakaku
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June 23, 2005 at 4:53 am #3178944
Say “Yes”
by dstahl · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
My experience is that quite a few of these people are using home-computers for work purposes (As the cost of USB-data keys has declined causing the weight of company issued laptops with proper VPN clients have increased to the point where employees will sometimes elect not to take the laptop home).
My point here is that frequently the home computers of the employees become a defacto extension of your computing environment. Wouldn’t you like to make certain these devices are at least ‘virus free’ before that USB-key returns to the office and gets plugged back in?
My policy has been:
*IT will clean/debug/reload home PCs for employees during work-hours on a lowered priority basis.
*IT staff WILL NOT under any circumstances make a house call to an employees home (this made our lawyer very happy).
*The company purchased additional anti-virus CALS for every employee to use at home.
*When IT works on a home user’s PC, the AV software is installed/updated/configured, a personal firewall is downloaded/installed/configured, SpyBOT S&D installed and, of course the Microsoft Update service turned on and brought current.The results of this kind of approach seem to be terrific.
First, employees gain access to IT staff in a non-emergency/non-project scenario – get some free advice and learn all about each other’s family (“It all started after my son installed something called bitTorrent and….”). That kind of social interaction pays dividends later on.
Second, employees are being gently educated and in some cases better able to deal with the ‘kid/computer’ relationship at home since many of the children are felt to be more knowledgable about computures than they are.
Lastly, you’ve done a good thing as an IT professional by helping control insecure PC’s in the always-on home environment. Altruistic? Nope! You’ve also reduced the risk that your corporate LAN environment is going to be infected from the ‘inside’ (saving those all important egress security elements that we all have from failure).So, my advice is just say yes. Manage their expectations properly, give them more value than they bargined for and you’ll increase your customer satisfaction in a huge way.
/djs -
June 23, 2005 at 4:58 am #3178940
Saying “No”
by ronbirch · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Advise them that you could be responsible for furtherproblems, and suggest they use an online helpdesk like http://www.protonic.com
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June 23, 2005 at 4:58 am #3178939
Free Advice
by cleanjoe · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Let me get this right, you don’t want people you work with to ask you for help on there computers at home? Well bud get over yourself, if I am getting your problem right, you don’t want to help unless you get paid for what you know. In the bussiness I’m in I am asked all the time buy the people I work with to help them, I have no problem helping them, You guys (and gal’s) are a team and you work together at the same place, That has benefits in that it self. They should not go to any other company or computer place if they have a friend they work with that can help them. Unless your a total jerk. If you are a total jerk, you need to relize that the way you are acting about this will one day come back on you if you ever need help…
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June 26, 2005 at 6:16 pm #3176502
You are a complete moron.
by jmiguy · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Free Advice
You have absolutely no concept of reality.
Starting right now, I want you to start sending your entire paychecks directly to me. Since you’re so willing to work for free, you won’t be needing those silly paychecks for anything.
(As a matter of fact, I have some work I need done around the house, why don’t you be here at 7:00 AM to get started. If you do real good, I might even give you a beer.)
IT support people get paid to “resolve computer related issues!” Much of this is done over the phone by offering step by step instructions.
Again, “this is what we get paid for!” This is the same kind of “advice” people are looking for. They are not looking for tips, they are looking for a way to get free tech support.
Anyone who thinks differently has no clue what it’s like working in a support position. I’ve had
one individual so rude, he came up to my desk, dropped his home PC on my desk and “told” me to see if I can figure out why it wont boot up.He never asked if I would mind taking a look, he just assumed I would do it. (I barely knew him) I had another idiot come and interupt me while on a phone call to ask me if I had a CD burner. When I said yes, he handed me an Allman Brothers CD and told me he needed 2 copies right away. This was at work on company time. He demanded me to burn music CD’s for him! (I never even seen this person before)
These are the kinds of arrogant, ignorant people we have to deal with, and quite frankly, I have no desire whatsoever to offer these people anything for free – including my respect.
One more point; I keep reading posts about the “joys of sharing knowledge.”
Guess what, sharing requires an “exchange” of some sort.
“Giving” knowledge is what they should be saying.
Peace.
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July 15, 2005 at 1:48 pm #3188245
Speaking of Morons!!!
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to You are a complete moron.
How does helping someone impact your pay check? Let’s get real people. If you don’t like helping others without expectations of something in return-then don’t, but don’t come up with lame reasonings for not wanting to do so. I know you’re thinking his income could be higher if he charged. Perhaps, not everyone is driven by profit either. I’m more than willing to help others just for the satisfaction of helping yet in all my years in the workforce (26+) my paychecks have always gotten bigger. To date I’ve never suffer a reduction in pay. Hey! Maybe there is something to helping people just for the sake of it.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:59 am #3178938
WOW
by terrymcginnis · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
what a bunch of mean spirited people we are. we don’t help if it doesn’t benefit us in some fashion. that is really sad.
based upon the majority of replies, does this mean i can’t ask my neighbor for advice on hiring a contractor to do constuction work when my neighbor just went through the same process? or talk to a family member who owns an automoble that i am considering purchasing? how about talking to a coworker who has vacationed in a country that i would like to visit? what about asking a fellow runner about the brand of running shoe they are using?
each of those folks have domain knowledge (aka advice) that i’d like them to share with me for free.
we all need to lighten up. take a day off. we are all so stressed out that we can’t think like a ‘normal’ human, a good friend, a family member, a nice neighbor.
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June 23, 2005 at 12:04 pm #3177737
to protesting “generous” geeks
by contact · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to WOW
I am amazed how so many “almost insulting” posts came up in this thread.
Basically, IT’s should be sharing their knowledge -as if they did not do it already either in forums or on their own website- otherwise they get called greedy, mean minded, selfish… whatever. Some might be generous with their time but they are equally fast at disrispecting people. Usually such persons are pretending to be what they are not and don’t know what they talk about. Lessons givers they are.
There is no point that knowledge has to be shared, for free. Giving advice is good and everybody here agrees that social skill matters and that greed is bad.
The question is more about being HARASSED :
– How do you manage to refuse doing free work and endure the responsibility for 100’s of computers run by noobs in your area?
– How do you get people to making a distinction between advice and free service ?
– How to explain someone that it is not because you put your hand on his keyboard that you HAVE to offer free maintenance for the rest of your life.
– How do you get people to be a bit more specific than “it doesn’t work”
– How do you get people to be a bit more honest than : “since you came and installed my printer I have slow internet access”
On one hand, how dramatic it can become in one’s life to have to say no, over and over, to peeps he meets daily.
OTOH it is so easy to call us greedies. So easy to point a finger and “your aura’s dark” or “you badly minded”. Probably, most of those talking this way have an easy work with comfortable wages, 45 hours a week.
I understand they are willing to help whomever will ask from them but I am pretty confident that they are probably not asked on a 100/week basis. Otherwise they would talk differently.
The question was simple : HOW TO SAY NO. Not “Am I allowed to say no”.
You advice was not require on that matter. I respect the fact that you give it for free. but it was not required. Nor is it welcome.
Another useful thread could be : should I give any advice, even for free, or should I keep it shut ?
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June 23, 2005 at 1:24 pm #3177669
HOW TO SAY NO
by cogtek · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to to protesting “generous” geeks
The moral issue aside.
To say No or to not say No will continue to be debated in the other threads.The only proper way to say No to a request for advice is to politely point out your completely consuming task list.
You don’t have time to answer any questions…
On your way to the bathroom
During your lunch hour
While waiting for the PC to finish installing
Because your boss/supervisor/manager/partner/owner pays you good money to work, not socialize.Yeah, us Techies can be sarcastic too!
Because you can’t say No to a request for advice.
When that request requires more than a discussion, you can say No.
Politely.
Blame the boss, blame your schedule, blame whomever/whatever you want.
But NOT UNTIL the discussion becomes actual work. -
November 24, 2005 at 4:59 pm #3122840
How to refuse
by bcftw · about 18 years, 4 months ago
In reply to HOW TO SAY NO
I do it for my immediate family, anyone else I just say ‘have you tried kicking it around the sitting room a few times?’ if that doesn’t shut them up I just tell them part of my contract is not to do outside work. My friends would not expect free advice anyway, they’ll bring me some goodies before they ask, just like I would for them. (Mind you I don’t have many friends :-), but the ones I have are good ones.)
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July 15, 2005 at 1:57 pm #3188240
Just because…
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to to protesting “generous” geeks
…you feel disrespected, doesn’t mean that you were. Everyone is entitled to their opinion including those that I disagree with. No rule, policy, law, philosophy, etc should ever be so rigid that we can’t adjust to extemporaneous circumstances.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:00 am #3178937
Help them
by mill3502 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Maybe if you help them and really know what your talking about the next time they come back they will know more and you will get satisfaction out of being there for someone.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:00 am #3178936
Free IT Advice
by pete1978 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
First, analyze the politics. If the person asking for the advice is in a position of influence (such as a partner), giving the advice may help your career or allow your department to get things the department wants later. Always give the advice to political powers as you will often get something in return later.
For the people who are not in such power political positions, make a referal. Tell them, the people over at ______________ PC store are very reliable. Check with them. They’ll have time to look at the problem and give you an answer based on what they find. I don’t have the time to look at the PC and without looking at it, I’d just be guessing.
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July 15, 2005 at 2:10 pm #3188237
Flawed Theory
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Free IT Advice
What happens a year down the line when the person that you rejected who wasn’t in a position of power a year ago now is because of promotions, restucturing, etc… and they remember your rejection. That’s what the saying don’t burn your bridges is all about. You never know when you’ll have to cross it again.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:01 am #3178935
IT Advice
by wondercat · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I have used the line, “Hmmm, that’s a good question, if I have some extra time I’ll look into it. Here’s the number to the xxxxxxx store and they can help you in the meantime” Seems to work pretty well. Good Luck!
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June 23, 2005 at 5:03 am #3178934
Tell them to check the forums
by crazijoe · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
There are plenty of computer forums that offer free computer advice and can help solve some of the hardest problems. Everything from building computers to problems with Office apps. It’s the best free advice that anyone can recieve.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:56 am #3177941
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
by jeff the project manager · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Tell them to check the forums
Perhaps I’ve never been overwhelmed with requests because I teach friends “how to fish” — get online and find the answers themselves. To track down a thorny error message, Google Groups is the place I go first. Anyone can do that.
If they’ve already searched for the answer, then I’ll help them more. Call it sweat equity. But just that first reply that gets them working on the solution themselves cuts down the number of repeat requests.
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November 19, 2005 at 12:30 pm #3117385
Self-sufficiency on a proactive level. I like that. . .
by swgoldwire2546 · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
I am used to finding out answers myself BEFORE I ask for help. At least that way I am not dependent on others.
I help a person to be self-sufficient without the person isolating his/herself.
-swg
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July 18, 2005 at 11:00 am #3188919
True
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Tell them to check the forums
…but, most likely only the technically inclined are aware of all of these forums. If the user asking for help were aware of them or even becoming proficient in maintaining their computer, they probably would have already utilized these resources. Your statemnet presumes that the user actually wants to know this information. I drive a car, but I have no desire whatsoever to understand how it does what it does. Unfortunately, I also don’t have a personal relationship with any mechanics either, so I’m stuck paying for whatever service I need. There are computer end users that are in the same boat.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:06 am #3178933
Geek Squad
by genes89 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I have caved in on this issue and bill friends for my time working on their stuff. I give a “family” discount ($95 v. $125) and so far it has been OK. No one has been dissatisfied, I don’t feel like a sucker, and I have picked up sime business from the companies who employ them.
Has anyone heard how the Geek Squad at Best Buy is doing? As an independant, I worry that they will take my SMB clients away.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:47 am #3177954
RE: Geek Squad
by disciplen2k · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Geek Squad
If the store I’m working at is any indication, the Geek Squad is doing pretty well. I don’t think you have too much to worry about as far as losing your SMB clients, though. One of the bad things about the Geek Squad is that we tend to hire high school/college students that we can get by with paying $10/hr for tech work. As a result, we occasionally end up with longer than necessary turn around times, incomplete jobs being sent back with the customer, and REALLY aggrivated clients. If the quality of your work is solid, you should have nothing to worry about.
In regards to the original topic, I have yet to refuse giving someone free IT advice (except when prohibited by my current employer). As someone who is fairly new to the IT field, I consider it a great compliment when people come to me for advice or help with their PC. Because of my eagerness to help with these types of problems, I became the “go to guy” for technical problems at my previous job and now have several new people who can attest to my technical abilities. Being so willing to help has helped me to develop my network of professional contacts and get my start in the IT field. As far as I’m concerned, if you’re new to IT, take every opportunity you can to demonstrate your skills. As for how to deal with it when you’re already established in the business, I guess I’ll just have to figure that part out when I get there!
-Disciple
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July 15, 2005 at 2:21 pm #3188236
Bravo
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to RE: Geek Squad
I think most IT professionals once felt the same as you do. Unfortunately for the IT field, many get to the point where they forget where they came from and have this greater than thou mentality. As you grow professionally always remember how you got to where you are and don’t forget those that helped you along the way, and how good it feels to help someone else. If you’re good at your job, the pay will come along and you won’t have to use profit as an excuse for not helping anymore.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:12 am #3178930
Not a Doormat
by curtisyerger · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I help anybody I can as much as I can as long as I am not taken advantage of. Believe it or not my biggest offender of this policy is family. I am also a certified master mechanic, and I work on cars quite frequently for little or nothing more than help when I need it. I believe in what you put out come back to you.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:17 am #3178926
Pay up or Shut up
by soulman918 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I tend to get a lot of people asking for advice, complaining that their home PC’s are slow / infected / not working. I simply tell them that if they want me to look at it then I can do it after hours and I charge them a nominal fee to do it. Usually between $20 and $50. If they really want help then they’ll pay. Usually I don’t get asked a second time unless they really are serious about getting help.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:20 am #3178925
After Hours
by gnorton100 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Produce an extra income stream. Verify that it is their home computer and then remind them that home computers are outside your job scope so you can’t help them during working hours, however, you could work on it as an after hours job or they could take it to a local shop. Then give them your pricing: X dollars per hour + one way travel. (Half an hour travel one way = half an hour pay.)
I’ve had a couple of people balk at the price and some that try to press for the information for free. I simply restate the top paragraph and ask them to call me if they want the job done after hours and tactfully hang up.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:55 am #3178889
Encourage self help
by etco · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to After Hours
I know the pressure IT Pro’s can be put under by co-workers looking for solutions to tech problems at home and …yes..it is cheeky and presumptious of them to expect IT help on tap. The issue doesn’t have to be about whether or not to charge for helping them. Myself and my team are currently drafting self help materials (PPoint, Viewlets, Docs etc) covering a variety of common in-house issues eg.NDS login, email/intranet login etc, which will be delivered during a ‘drop-in clinic’ event targeted at all non-IT staff. Beyond this initial clinic, we anticipate future clinic agendas being driven by the demands of the attendees which will almost certainly involve offering advice and information on avoiding and, to an extent repairing common home PC problems.
All materials will be made available through our staff intranet and actively promoted by our team whenever we are approached for unofficial help.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:21 am #3178923
And I thought I was a curmudgeon…
by skorekeep · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
…when I post answers in the forum I work on, because I take on a surly, contrary attitude on purpose. Ya’ll take the cake. With an attitude like that you can kiss goodbye any chance of ever becoming an entrepreneur; the best thing for bringing people in to see your wares is free advice on your common problems. You want to be an island, then I hope you pay your kid a living wage for mowing the yard, and keep a spreadsheet to account for every penny.
The worst aspect of trade unions and guilds is the “lets keep it a secret” attitude. Try to find out how a surveyor does his job by searching on the web, for instance. y’all sound like a bunch of 16th century craft-masters.
Then, of course, there’s always the possibility you’re simply scared silly by not knowing the answer…
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June 23, 2005 at 5:29 am #3178917
Remember they are clueless
by dfox138 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Yes, it is irritating, but remember that they are clueless and desperate and do not know what to do to fix their problem. Personally, I tell them that I am a software person, not a hardware person. Then point them to a local shop that fixes people’s computers.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:35 am #3178911
Depends
by mshi · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I usually ‘misunderstand’ their request for help and answer by giving them some advice – maybe the address for spybot s&d or a local geek squad type service. When I lived in a different state, I had a friend who would do that kind of thing on the side – he had cards and everything, and I’d just give them one of those.
I also get a lot of ‘what kind of computer should I buy’ questions, and I usually probe a little and end up recommending they shop around and make sure they get enough memory and hard drive space and a good anti-virus program. I’ll give them a quick rundown on the main things they need to look for.
And occasionally I’ve managed to impress them by looking up a specific error message in google and telling them what to do about it.
Partners/owners – I’ll fix their machines, but on company time. If they’re paying my salary, they can have me work on whatever machine they want. If it’s a bad time, I’ll just make clear what project is being delayed so I can fix their printer.
I’d think the goal is to be nice enough not to really piss off your coworkers unnecessarily, but not so nice you get taken advantage of. Most people I’ve dealt with have been understanding.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:39 am #3178905
Barter
by tony.savoie · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I get this all the time. I dont like doing it, but cant say no without offending people. I dont feel right about charging friends/family/coworkers so I barter with them. I trade them 1 hour of computer work for 1 hour of whatever they can offer.
One persons husband runs a landscaping business….8 hours of fixing thier home pc got me out of taking care of my lawn for a month!
My mechanic’s pc was acting up….couple hours of spyware removal and applying patches got me 3 free oil changes.
Kid down the streets mother approached me cause the kids laptop was farked up and he uses it for school. I fixed the laptop, kid came to clean the gutters on the house.
It gives the people a little perspective too. They dont like cutting my grass on thier own time, I dont like fixing thier computers on mine. They are less apt to call with “Oh, my icon moved to a different spot on my screen. How do I put it back?” type problems…
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June 23, 2005 at 5:40 am #3178903
Why sya no!
by roadman1007 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
If you are a consulting service that sells “advice” you would not want to give away your product. Other than that, if you are an in-house service provider, why would you not want to give away the advice. It benefits the organization significantly to have a knowledgeable user base. It also creates good client relationships that are coveted in most organizations. If giving advice takes up too much technician time, try having periodic scheduled open forums to allow users to Q & A. That gives the techs the opportunity to answer questions by saying “come to the forum.”
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June 23, 2005 at 5:41 am #3178902
Unbelievable
by jb1 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Wow. I can’t believe the number of negative posts on this topic. What kind of egos have all of you developed? Have you never been in the same position? Have you never asked anyone a question related to their career specialty? Or are you different and don’t hold yourself to the same standard you expect others to live at?
On top of that, you said these people “ask you for advice on their HOME computers”. They ask for advice. They didn’t ask you to come work on it, they asked you for direction with a particular issue. Try getting off your high-horse, become a human being again and answer their question to the best of your ability. If it’s a difficult, in-depth issue that logically can’t be answered easily, just tell them.
It is internally fullfilling when someone comes back and is beaming all over the place about how they did exactly what you told them and it worked! They feel so good about themselves and are very thankful to you. It often ends up with a homemade cake, them buying you lunch or some small token of thanks for helping them out.
It’s egotistical, self-absorbed “techies” like the bunch of you that bring down America and neighborhoods. “Horay for me and screw you.”. Nice attitude to have. I suppose you’ll want us to feel sorry for you when life throws you a curve and isn’t going your way. Just remember not to ask anyone for free advice or help at that time. Call a professional egotist and pay them to do something a good friend would be willing to do just to help you out…
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June 23, 2005 at 6:00 am #3178881
Agree totally
by mikefromco · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Unbelievable
I agree. It’s as if none of us have ever asked for free advice from co-workers?
So if you work in the IT department of a hospital and ask a doctor or nurse a question, their answer should be “Make an appointment”? Would you really appreciate that response?
And JB is also right; there’s usually some token of thanks or maybe better a return of the favor. -
June 24, 2005 at 11:57 am #3178679
Right on!
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Unbelievable
and those self absorbed doctors who won’t diagnose me in the hallway, I hate them.
And those egotistical idiotic auto service co-ordinators at dealers, who tell me to ‘bring it in’ rather than let me know what’s wrong over phone!
It’s our fault that we’re not teeps and can mystimagically know in the hallway or over the phone what’s rong.
The neighborhhods are going to he** because techs want to have their nights and weekends off!
And that person who called my friend over to fix her computer then was not there for two hours is perfectly reasonable, any pc tech whho has a human side should wait for inconsiderate people who use them. After all they exist to fix people’s computers.
Now who’s missing the human side?
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June 23, 2005 at 5:48 am #3178897
See your Doctor
by i,technician · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Dear Freeozraelised,
You may have forgotten the law of sowing and reaping. While you give advise for free, you are being paid in the valuable currency of knowledge. Every time you solve a problem, you have to think. You hone your skills, for FREE. Put another way; it costs you nothing now to become the most knowledgeable, well-rounded technician your company has in the future. The law of sowing and reaping in action. If you feel you are losing time away from real work to give free advice and that is what is really bothering you simply let your co-workers know that ?free? advice will be secondary to work. Ask politely if they could get back with you later. Better yet, consider talking to your supervisor about organizing one or two lunch break home computer Q & A sessions a month. This shows your willing to assist your compatriots, demonstrates and enhances your skills and everyone will learn something. Oh, and it will probably be a lot of fun. Sow, then reap.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:27 am #3178843
Great idea
by jb1 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to See your Doctor
I think the lunch (or other times) sessions you mentioned are a great idea. We did something similar to that at a previous endeavor for work related issues to bring other techs up to speed on single, focused issues. Voluntary – if they wanted to attend. Very successful. I think we called them “Micro-sessions”.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:54 am #3178890
Free advice
by mhambrecht · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Look you can do this in any number of ways. You can give the advice free of charge or you can start handing them your business card an saying call me I can talk about this after work. I am not aloud to mix personal business with work. Now with the partner if he owns the company he owns as an interpretation your time whenever that maybe or where. I know of a large tax business where the partner expect their tech support to provide support at their home even after hours. One guy I know actually had to go install a wireless network thru the entire hou..
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June 23, 2005 at 5:57 am #3178886
What is wrong with you people?
by jnoonan · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
After reading some of these replies I ask myself two questions: 1. Why are we wasting time with such a stupid question? If you have time to read through inane articles like this one then surely you could offer some free advice to fellow workers and friends. Charge or barter when you need supplies or if it’s time consuming. I no longer pay co-payments to my doctor because of this. 2. Do you consider it professional? Your demeanor can speak volumes about the type of person you are. Acting as if it’s beneath you to offer free advice is degrading to both yourself and your peers. Ask yourself where you got advice from. Get a grip and lighten up. Life’s too short to worry about this nonsense.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:32 am #3178837
Right on!
by dumbuser · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to What is wrong with you people?
You’re dead on. Too bad most techies have a superiority (or inferiority?) complex.
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June 23, 2005 at 10:37 am #3177831
and with you, dude ?
by contact · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to What is wrong with you people?
Obviously you do NOT understand what a problem this subject is for us. Mates, friends, family : we HAVE to setup a strategy on this dayly question : can you (you the guru) fix my computer in two keystroke (which means you won’t deserve any kind of greatfulness), do it during offtime, for free and then feel responsible for whatever will happen to my computer the next months on ?
This IS what I hear when asked for free help.
You could ask YOURSELF : why do we take the time to read on this thread that was discussed again and again, over the years.
You seem quite fast to talk about nonsense or the “type of persons we are”. Let me do the same with you : if you have no clue what the subject is about and can be quicker at insulting people than trying to understand, I have no doubt with the kind of person YOU are.
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June 24, 2005 at 7:40 am #3176724
Dude…
by jnoonan · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to and with you, dude ?
I do get asked quite frequently to help others with their PC’s. I don’t mind helping people especially friends and family. A thank you is sufficient. I don’t need to charge them for anything more than supplies, whether it be software or hardware. When they reccomend me to others that I don’t know or work with , then I will charge a nominal fee so as to not be taken advantage of. As far as insults go, only individuals that see this as such a major inconvenience in their lives need to lighten up and realize that life is way too short for such trivialities.
Tell me… have you ever asked anyone for advice? Aren’t you using Tech Republic for free advice? Have you ever searched Google or Yahoo message boards for answers to your questions? How much did you pay? Did you ever have a friend do repairs to your house, car etc? Next time you do make sure you pay the going rate.Have a nice day!
— Joe
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June 23, 2005 at 5:57 am #3178885
The Right Thing!
by horell · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Do the right thing, if asked for help, help if you can. If you can’t, tell them you can’t and why. Be generous and kind, no one should walk through life thinking that they should make a profit from everyone. If no one has ever told you, we exsist because of other human beings. To be liked, loved and needed by people is the only reason for being. Be remembered fondly!
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June 23, 2005 at 6:03 am #3178880
Free Advice…IT’s all good :)
by gary-knight · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I work in a local 11-16 age range school, and I think I have seen almost everyones home computer belonging to staff. Last week I took HOME two PCs and a laptop to work on. Ok so it can be time consuming but it builds great bonds. Also I dont like the word “Expert” I dont claim to know everything but as a “professional” I share knowledge and as co-chairperson of our local ICT Technician’s Panel enjoy swapping information and advice for free – which I would do with anyone who is interested. I think IT spent too long in the dark ages where knowledge is power and to gain even simple knowledge from people you had to pay, pay, pay
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June 24, 2005 at 12:09 pm #3178672
individual choice
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Free Advice…IT’s all good :)
if that’s what you want to do fine. but others in this thread seem to think it’s an obligation, which is TOTALLY BOGUS.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:07 am #3178874
Case by case … so to speak
by btitus · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I deal with this on a case by case situation.
For the occasional advice seeker with a simple problem, I listen to the issue and offer a couple quick solutions. I can afford a minute or two out of my day to be nice to the people I work with. For problems that seem more in depth I usually tell them to send me an email with detailed description and if possible a screen shot of the error message and when I get a chance I’ll look into it. Most of the time I never receive that email so I’m off the hook. Hey, I offered, they elected not to follow through, not my problem. On the rare occasion that I do get an email, many times I have learned something in the process of helping them resolve their issue so it becomes a gain for me.
I do have some users that almost daily are asking me to resolve issues with their home PCs. With these people I eventually draw the line and tell them they need to spend some money on a professional service because the company is paying me to attend to it’s systems not employee’s personal PCs.-
June 23, 2005 at 6:21 am #3178851
…. with a little forward thinking
by mad mole · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Case by case … so to speak
I also treat my users on a case by case basis. However I’m extremely keen to see my users learn more about their PCs because it makes my life at work an awful lot easier!
A more IT literate user means I can talk them through complex tasks over the phone when the inevitable problems materialise at work. If that meant helping them fix their home PC first that’s fine by me.The more the user understands what they’re dealing with, the better the info they give the IT Admin when things go properly wrong.
When it comes to purchasing advice it takes me 2mins to tell them what to avoid and another two to tell them what questions they should be asking themselves. Then send them off to do some of their own research. If they’re keen they’ll be back with a list of alternatives it takes me 2secs to advise on.
Whatever you do giving them confidence in the use of PC means they’ll make decisions themselves in the future and aren’t likely to bother you again.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:11 am #3178872
No Time for friends…
by portypicker · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Hi,
I’m with those that don’t quite see what the problem is? If you just tell people that you you ‘don’t have the time’ then pretty soon you’ll be known as the guy who doesn’t have time – for work colleagues, for friends, for his/her partner(!! You really don’t like helping your partner??! Ouch!) – and the problem will go away.
Personally, it’s a little ego-boost for me when folks ask for my help/advice. And generally most are pretty generous when it comes to paying me back (one or two insist on paying properly, with invoices and that (I give a ‘discount’ rate!), but most give me some wine or malt whisky or maybe a ‘techie’ gift they know I’ll like). But even those that don’t give something material (like my Mum!) do ‘give’ in other ways… helpful advice in other areas, may just being ‘good company’ (and ‘bigging me up’ to their friends…).
If anyone does get to be a real hassle and takes advantage, then it’s really down to your interpersonal skills to ‘dissuade’ them without them wanting to slap/kill you! That may vary from person to person – the ‘no time’ excuse generally works though. (Or fall back on the ‘helpdesk’ mantra of ‘reboot/reload/reinstall’).
But always remember, people will always remember what you did for them, when you were ‘there’ for them… They also remember when you weren’t! You get what you give in this world (eventually!). The choice is yours.-
June 23, 2005 at 12:31 pm #3177711
reap what you saw
by contact · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to No Time for friends…
<
> The problem is that you are … IT.
Which means you are CONSTANTLY asked, while you barely need anything for yourself.
Surprising how some mates I know who not only seldomly need me for their puter but also do very well at fixing their car, fixing electrical or plumbery problems. These I help whenever I can, plus I know I can count on them when I’m in need.
Let’s face it : the old saying was true until pc’s got sold in supermarkets : for the average IT, it’s become : “you gotta reap just what you saw(saw*saw*saw*2+E^n+7)”. N being your number of friends/mates/family.
Sounds more like an evil spell than an old saying, doesn’t it ?
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June 23, 2005 at 6:13 am #3178870
Free Advice
by crowell · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I have always answered fellow employees questions concerning their PC’S. As we are suppose to be the experts we are therefore asked for our advice. NOW if they wish me to attend to the problem at their home I explain that there maybe a fee involved. The point is as in all judgement cases each one has to be evaluated for the fellow employee relationship. As in all cases the abuser of course is ignored.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:16 am #3178858
A doctor’s viewpoint
by robert.t.moss · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I have several friends who are doctors. I’ve asked them how they handle the issue. They all do the same thing – they give the best advice they can with the knowledge at hand. One of them told me “I became a doctor to help people. If other doctors are unwilling to give out some free advice, they should find another career”.
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June 23, 2005 at 10:45 am #3177814
do you diagnose outside of you cabinet ?
by contact · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to A doctor’s viewpoint
I am no doctor, but I wouldn’t give anythng but common advices: I would’nt try to diagnose, as long as i feel something serious is going on.
I guess the same applies to us : giving common advice is wtg. For anything serious, let’s talk serious.
To go further with the doctor comparison, I’d say that I wouldn’t considere a doctor who is not feeling this way : helping people first. The fact is that most of those I heard about are not.
But I would DEFINITELY considere an IT that became such WITHOUT any will to help people. Just the same with my butcher or hairdresser.
Let me add that people are much more reluctant to require free worlk from doctors (or butchers, plumbers and hairdressers) than from pro IT’s. More reluctant is an understatement, as some of you here might know.
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June 23, 2005 at 3:05 pm #3176949
the butcher, the plumber and the hairdresser
by terrymcginnis · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to do you diagnose outside of you cabinet ?
first of all, i am not trying to offend anyone and apologize if this or previous posts were offensive to anyone.
do you ask your butcher for the best technique for preparing a cut of meat? do you ask your plumber the best way to ensure that the drain does not get clogged again in 30 days? do you ask your hairdresser for advice on the best hair care products?
i’d argue that each of those questions amounts to free advice. once the butcher cuts my meat, hands it to me and collects my cash, that job is complete. a follow up question amounts to free advice. or, to look at it with a different spin, it is providing good customer service. or, from another view, it is simply being a “nice person”.
if i ask my butcher for preparation advice and he (or she) hands me a business card or tells me to read a cookbook (rtfm) or tells me to surf the web, i will certainly form a negative opinion and possibly not spend my money there in the future. that is very effective way of voicing displeasure.
anyhow, just my 2 cents.
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June 26, 2005 at 6:33 pm #3176500
My 2 cents
by jmiguy · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to the butcher, the plumber and the hairdresser
Butcher’s sell meat, plumbers fix pipes, hairdresser’s cut hair.
Support techs “advise” users on how to resolve their problems.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:19 am #3178852
Free advice or service?
by shraven · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
You should never charge for your “advice” and you should hand it out freely – it only takes a couple minutes! But if someone is asking you to spend hours working on their PC, that’s not advice and that’s not a reasonable expectation on their part.
Just tell them you’re a little busy this weekend, but if they’d like they can bring their PC by your house and you’ll work on it while they paint your house… or whatever project you were plannign on doing.
If you’re not comfortable with that you can take a more subtle approach: listen to their problem and recommend a very expensive upgrade. Be sure to qualify that it may not help their problem, but it’s the quickest way to fix it. People will decide on their own to persue other avenues… the ones they probably should have been anyway. -
June 23, 2005 at 6:23 am #3178850
It’s called “value-added service”
by dumbuser · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Folks,
It never seems to amaze me how IT pros don’t understand customer service. Sure you’re “giving away” some knowledge, but hasn’t anyone ever taken you to lunch? They gave something away, with the hope of improving their relationship with you.
Instead of whining about how people get freebies and coming up with ways of dodging their questions, why not look at it as a way to build a better relationship with a customer? Ok, you can’t sit there all day, but a few minutes won’t kill you, and that person who’s home computer question you blow off today may be the CEO of tomorrow—you know, the guy or gal that approves your budget….or position?
Every time I read something like this, I think, “the IT people still don’t get it.”
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June 23, 2005 at 6:29 am #3178842
give them someplace else to go
by snag · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Explain that you have a personal policy not to give advice to people you work with, and that it’s nothing against them in particular. Then, give them a couple of websites they can find information and answers at. Teach them how to do some online and book research, and they’ll soon be the ones others are pestering for the free help.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:31 am #3178839
Share the Wealth
by xt john · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
9 out of 10 people I have helped in the past have been very appreciative, generous and insistant in whatever way they could compensate (whether fresh baked goods, a gift card or money). Numerous people have helped me to get to where I am today, so why shouldn’t I share the Wealth of Knowledge? Be prepared for that 1 out of 10 who will be unappreciative, call you incessantly, blame you for their errors and make you swear you’ll never help a soul again! Favors for friends, family and co-workers always return to you, in positive ways…
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June 23, 2005 at 6:36 am #3178830
Liability
by sam.hays · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I Don’t know if this is *valid* per se. But I turn people down on the argument that If I were to give them free friendly advice, and they use that advice incorrectly or whatever, then they come back and blame my company because I gave them advice here at work and blah blah blah. Then I may become responsible for that. I’ve read of similar situations happening with online gambling on work equipment. So – i don’t give advice because I don’t want to be at risk… If it’s not a work computer, don’t bother me with it.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:39 am #3177758
Getting sued
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Liability
I’ve never been sued, but I’ve been threatened.
It’s a long story, but I did some piddly thing for free on an aquaintance’s computer, a week later he hosed his entire HDD.
Turned out it was a hardware malfunction caused by a large refridgerator magnet he was using on the side of his case…moron…
But it was MY fault because I touched his mouse a week earlier…you all know the story.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:39 am #3178823
Paying for service
by richard vickery · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
My answer to the question is to let your employees know that advise is never free, whether a teacher, lawyer, tech, etc. the same applies at work. If there is a problem with the company’s machines and they happen to learn something from that solution, fine. Somebody is paying for it. It took you time and money to go to school and learn stuff, nothing is free even if it comes from a book they bought or borrowed. If the want free information, try barking up sommeone elses tree.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:46 am #3178817
Golden Rule
by itfreak · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Well, it’s obvious that some of the people posting to this thread have never gone to their friends in the accounting department right around April 15 to get their taxes squared away because of that one form for that one deduction that could make a difference between paying $1000 in taxes and getting a $5 refund.
There’s really no good answer here and it all depends on who the person asking for the help is. All of us here knows that we can say no to an underling but can you say no to a director or VP? Let’s be realistic and use common sense. If we ask people for advice on non-work related stuff, we should be willing to reciprocate in kind.
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June 24, 2005 at 12:56 pm #3178642
yes
by dr dij · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Golden Rule
I could say no if they asked me to do something on my own time. If we had a policy not to waste time chit-chatting then I also could say no. And if I was busy, I certainly could say no. Is getting the router working for alot of people at work more important than the directors home PC? Just tell them you’ve got urgent problem if you don’t have time. And since many IT depts are understaffed, this means something is not getting done because they’re bothering you.
Carry a notebook, walk fast and look worried, and you’ll never be bothered 🙂
just lose that worried look on the weekend.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:46 am #3178815
A Much Better Answer
by rknrlkid · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
My brother taught me this one, and I modified it a little. When someone asks for advice (especially if its complicated), use this response:
“You know, that could be a number of things. Its really difficult to pinpoint a problem (over the phone)(during a conversation). You really need to be sitting in front of the computer to find out.”
This isn’t a direct refusal of help, and its more diplomatic than bluntly saying no or demanding payment.
Now, if they ask you to come to their house and fix it, THEN you can (politely) say no, you don’t have the time, or (like I do) say “I’m a professional, and I have to charge for housecalls. My basic fee is $xx.xx to walk in the door, and $xx.xx for every hour after that. Do you still want me to come look at your machine?”
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June 23, 2005 at 6:54 am #3178810
Gain on it
by rgovaerts · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I’m an Sysadmin and if a collegue or even the CEO asks me for information, I give them my cellphone number. They call me, I go over to their places and charge them by the hour.
Even the CEO is now a client of mine, and this had as result that my contract with the firm has been extended already a couple of times. -
June 23, 2005 at 6:57 am #3178806
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by rbb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Asking for free advice on how to say no to giving free advice?
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June 23, 2005 at 10:59 am #3177805
…and who’s paying for your time now…???
by Thorarinn · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I’ve been following this thread on and off today – during your working hours in the States… How many of those who’ve posted today are doing so at work, whilst getting paid for doing a job for your employer?
Those of you who are worried about “wasting” working hours on handing out “free advice” to co-workers – are you worried about “wasting” working hours posting to a thread where there obviously is no simple “correct answer”?
Having said that, here’s my attempt at the “correct answer” for “outside working hours”:
If the gratitude you recieve for helping people out without expecting payment isn’t enough for you to feel it’s worth it, don’t do it. If you’re plagued by people expecting something for nothing, there’s a good chance they came to you (and not someone else) for a reason. Only you can change that pattern, just try to go about it in a “diplomatic” way (no need to burn bridges) but stick to the truth.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:57 am #3178805
Just say no-
by reddittlouise · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I don’t think the problems is with them the problem is with you- perhaps mixing business with pleasure- If your at work and expected to perform your job- then talking about their problems at home would not be professional- politely explain that you get a lot of request for assistance and it’s intefering with your job- you have a full plate during the course of the day- if your desire is to charge them- have some business cards made and when they ask pass one to them- that ought to shut them up-
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June 23, 2005 at 6:57 am #3178804
Polite & Professional IT Advice
by jalassiter · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Always try to be polite and professional. Personally I enjoy helping others if possible, but there is a limit. My guideline is, if the answer to their question is less than 30 seconds I concider answering. If the answer is more involved give them the name of a reputable computer repair company or a website such at TechRepublic.com.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:58 am #3178802
Learn to be a good marketer
by commandgce · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Make it clear that there are many variables involved – ask them if they know the 4 different ways to tell if their … is at fault. Make it attractive for them to admit their ignorance and your superiority. Tell them you give an in-house discount that is a real bargain compared with the sharks outside. Then turn them into fee-paying customers. Everyone wins.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:09 am #3178791
Advice vs Service…
by itguy04 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I always get asked questions about computers also. I try to answer them without getting to much involved. If there is a problem I would handle it on a case by case basis. You will always get questions from people as long as you are in IT. I am not saying you should give free service. Just talk with the person and tell them well if you want me to fix it for you I would have to charge you and nominal fee or direct them to somewhere they could take it and get it fixed. They will then see just how much work it can be when they have to pay to have it fixed.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:12 am #3178786
I always give them a high level answer
by mhasf · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I am always asked for free help. I always answer them with a high level answer that does not completely solve the issue. If you want to do consulting on the side then tell them that this is what you do for a side business and give them your price. If you don’t, then tell them to go to Fry’s or Comp USA.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:15 am #3178779
Teach them to fish…
by krichmond · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
All IT people live in that boat I think. There are days I can barely get to the coffee machine and back without getting stopped several times.
I have resorted to pointing the requestor in the right direction by telling them were to look to get the help they need or what to search for on the internet. If they cannot help themselves I carry a few business cards of a local, reputable computer repair shop. I know these people and I don’t mind recommending them. In return I get great discounts on parts and software.
Ken -
June 23, 2005 at 7:18 am #3178773
Join reality here!!!
by pauln1 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
You know…many people…Doctors included give free advice. I have been in Automotive, Construction, and IT and have always given free advice. It usually will lead to business. If someone tells you they are having a problem that is more than just a quick answer let them know that you will have to take a look at it and give them an estimate of your time and cost to resolve their issue.
I just don’t understand most of the thinking in this thread!
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June 23, 2005 at 7:27 am #3178761
You guys are full of it……
by dc_it_consultant · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
First of all some you sit there and talk about comparing yourselves with doctors, please, just because you study and bunch of brain dumps and exam crams doesn’t even give you close to the same training that a doctor goes through. It’s disgusting and makes the IT profession look bad when you try to compare. Secondly, I have a doctor in the family and I know first hand that a doctor would not say no to medical advice especially to someone they know or work with. You so called “IT Specialists” need to get off your high horses. Just because you understand a few acronyms and know how to ghost pc’s doesn’t mean you should be treated as the new messiah.
The attitude of the old “computer geek”, wherein he hardly speaks, reveals no information and thinks that he is smarter than everyone else is really lame. What’s even more lame is the fact that this type of attitude is still being hired in the work place.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:34 am #3178755
Share the stuff
by apdureha · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to You guys are full of it……
I too am pretty surprised with the problem here I personally am of the opinion that sharing and helping is must in IT field If we do not do it then we are ourselves limiting our own growth. i always help people and expect them in turn to help others. In a number of problems have been resolved while helping somebody else with their issues…..
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June 27, 2005 at 3:25 am #3176443
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June 23, 2005 at 7:36 am #3178753
Don’t they already pay you????
by emmanemms · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Do I understand that the people who pay your salary (i.e., partner) and the people who keep the organization running (i.e., staff members) need your assistance for their PERSONAL PCs while on company time? Since when is IT advice something which needs to be payed for? If you can’t get your “job” done because of all the personal questions, that’s one issue, but it doesn’t sound like it. I, too, don’t understand the majority of the people who’ve replied to you. I know MS Office products on an advanced level, and though I don’t use them on a routine basis, my coworkers do. Isn’t part of being a human being who takes up space on this planet (above the ground!) to share their knowledge? Would an attorney tell his legal secretary to “make an appointment” to ask simple questions about a personal legal matter? That list could go on and on. In a nutshell, my experience with IT folks is that they know about networking, hardware, etc., but they know little of the advanced uses of major software (e.g., Excel, Word, etc.). So if one of your non-IT coworkers can generate a complex spreadsheet which would make your life easier (because you don’t understand “sumif” or “pivot tables” blah blah blah), then she should tell you, “sorry, I took classes to learn Excel, but I’d be happy to train you on the weekends for $50 per hour!”? GET A LIFE PEOPLE! We all possess some kind of knowledge which someone else likely doesn’t have… share it, it’s an obligation (or at least it should be). I hope I never have to work with most of the people who have posted here today!
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June 23, 2005 at 7:47 am #3178741
Right On!
by unclerob · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Don’t they already pay you????
http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-11189-0.html?forumID=3&threadID=176447&messageID=1795766
’nuff said! (At least 2 people so far share my views) – crazy stuff
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June 23, 2005 at 8:23 am #3177987
Advice is free… Work performed is
by j_t_c · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Don’t they already pay you????
I encountered this very same thing all the years of my IT. This is very simple to solve which has worked for me. Advice is free… As long as it doesn’t involve too much of your “work” time. In the long run the help that you provided may in some way profit the company you are working for (i.e that person was able to complete a report or project on time). Having said that, actual work performed should be on an “off the clock” basis. This work should be compensated for. For example I would give someone some advice concerning spyware/malware removal. That was free, but if they could not handle it on their own I would ask them to bring the computer in during my lunch hour and I would take it to my home office to perform the repairs. I let them know up front the charges and the average cost for the service. I would then bring it back in the next day and do the exchange again during my lunch break. No conflicts of interest, no hassle, and they knew up front what it would cost them. Most people were happy to pay a competent PC person if they actually fixed their problem and did not give them grief about it. With my current lifestyle I simply don’t have time to do that anymore so I give the free advice and let them know about a local computer shop that can do the work.
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June 23, 2005 at 9:30 pm #3176851
Couldn’t have said it better!!!
by lazerous200 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Don’t they already pay you????
Best answer yet. I am in complete ageement.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:39 am #3178749
Striking a Balance
by mnelson · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
As an independant VAR, computer and Network service is our only commodity. When people (not friends or co-workers) call asking for free advice they not only take away from from us, they hold up the repairs in progress for our paying customers. We are in business to make a profit. Most of the callers however have never spent a dime in our shop and probably never will. On the other hand friends, neighbors, people who know my neigbors and so on attempt to get free service “on the side”. Before I started charging for my time I was inundated with sick PCs taking up all my free time. My real friends Know that I’ll always take care of them gratis and the rest… Oh well.
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June 23, 2005 at 7:50 am #3178736
Easy! Barter
by sugarat · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Tell them you do IT stuff on the side, but you use the barter system. Then ask them what can they offer in return for computer advice/repair. I never have to work on my own car, and I recently had my garden tilled by trading skills.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:04 am #3178716
How to say no.
by Anonymous · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
This is a tricky question. I give free advise. It’s short and sweet. Usually I recommend they seek out reliable company to assist them. I explain that for house calls I charge $125.00 an hour. Funny part is that those people who usually ask for assistance have little or nothing to exchange with me. I’m not above bartering, but free without any exchange doesn’t seem practical.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:18 am #3177991
Let them know it’s not really “Free” at work…
by captg · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
If these people are interrupting your work, let them know that they’re keeping you from maintaining their business environment.
If you’re willing to help these people out let them know that you can get together with them outside of the workplace & talk about it over drinks, dinner, or whatever.
I’ve found that most of the time people asking for tech advice are just trying to be social with the tech guy.-
June 23, 2005 at 8:36 am #3177970
Just wondering,
by gphoto45 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Let them know it’s not really “Free” at work…
I was just wondering how many of these people who are so against taking a few min. to give someone some advice are the same ones that use Linux, as it is free, and are constantly pointing out that knowledge is property of the world and should be shared. Paying real money for a software is evil, and MS is the home of the devil himself.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:41 am #3177963
I solved this one last year…
by zerooneonezero · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
A couple of times a month, I make an updated do-it-yourselfer Disk to remove viruses and spyware. I make people bring me a blank CD to exchange for the one I am giving them.
Let’s face it, 9 out of 10 of these requests are usually ‘my computer is slow’ what can I do?I created a CD with an autorun file, a readme with step-by-step instructions, which is also printed on a piece of paper that becomes the envelope for the disk. Included on the disk are several progs. such as VB Runtime files, A Winsock fix program, Ad Aware SE, Spybot Search and Destroy, AVG Antivirus,MS Antispyware (for XP only), and Zone Alarm. I do not include tools like HijackThis for obvious reasons, I also put in a disclaimer, which says specifically not to call me for support for the disk, but rather to use the help files included with each program, and an advisement that if this does not fix the problem(s), they need to take the machine to a qualified professional.
I also include a buddy’s business card, because he is really good, honest, and charges a flat fee.
This way, they know I care, and it empowers them to fix their own problem, or if they are just computer stupid, or have more serious problems,
I feel safe knowing that I referred them to a professional, not someone who will do a half-@$$ed job and then rape them on the fee.
I hope this helps. -
June 23, 2005 at 8:46 am #3177955
It’s against company policy!!
by rafquinn · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Tell people that if you were to give them advice and they unwittingly damaged something on their computer, your company could be held responsible (espcially if you give advice on company time). Our company has a “strict” policy – NO outside work allowed. Of course, the company president says we CAN work on other computers, but this way we can say no to people we work with and not be the bad guys. Good luck………….
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June 23, 2005 at 8:49 am #3177947
Liability Issues, As Well
by nip2655 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
First off, let me say close friends and family are completely different territory than co-workers. Some co-workers fall into the category of ‘friend’, sometimes, and as a friend, do your best to help!
However, casual advice is one thing, dedicated attention to solving the issue at hand is another. If the user cares enough to ask your advice, they should care enough to do a quick Yahoo! or Google search. If the problem is too complex for that, it will usually require attention beyond the bounds of simple ‘advice.
Don’t forget about the issue of liability. Ask a doctor or lawyer why they HATE giving free advice and they will typically tell you it isn’t just a matter of giving something away….it’s a matter of liabaility.
If the user had a big enough issue to stop you in your tracks to ask your help, he/she is obviously in over their head. To give advice without taking a good long hard look at the problem yourself is to assume you are getting a good run-down of the ‘issue’ from someone who obviously doesn’t know what they are doing in the first place. At the very least, they don’t care enough to get the problem professionaly dealt with, other than to ask an offhand favor from a co-worker.
To give advice is a minefield. A couple years ago, a co-worker who really couldn’t afford professional computer help asked my advice without giving me ALL the details necessary to diagnose and I was dumb enough to assume I knew what the problem was. I gave her a tip, she screwed her PC big-time and you can imagine where the story goes from here…..
Never again! That’s why doctors, lawyers AND IT professionals have a job. We are trained professionals and as such, we have a duty to give these sorts of problems our full attention…and that does not come cheap. Leave the friendly and casual advice to the computer guy/gal ‘wannabes’ and make sure you stay professional.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:59 am #3177935
Customer Service with a smile
by johnmerc · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I have been doing IT administration for over 20 years now starting with Mainframes. One thing I’ve learned is you don’t burn bridge. You never know when you will need a friend:) That being said, I make sure I’m always honest with them and if after talking to them it appears to be something that will need my personal attention I let them know they will have to talk with the Geeksquad or something similar to help them fix it. That way, even if you don’t give them the answer you have pointed them in the right direction. One thing to remember, to the user, as an Administrator you are a Customer Service respresentive, whether you like it or not. Shutting out your users will only alienate them and possibley make it harder to advance in the company because no matter how good you are a company looks at the whole person. Hope I didn’t sound to preachy:)
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June 23, 2005 at 9:01 am #3177930
Immediately revoke their remote access…….
by macquarrie · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
The “at-work” hat is on. You’re obligated to determine if it is a problem that might impact your company. If ***ANY*** warning bells go off, immediately take whatever action you deem necessary to protect the company.
If they are simply asking you where to get the best prices, refer them to whoever you use and make sure you get your commission…. -
June 23, 2005 at 9:03 am #3177927
Give free advice and offer to fix it for them for a fee!
by bp7226 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I have been doing that for years and as soon as I started doing that my phone quit ringing after 9:00 PM. The “free advice” is dispensed on company time, if asked at lunch or after hours, I politely ask them to drop by my office and where we can talk about it without interruption. I pass out business cards that indicate I own a computer business and everyone can rightly infer from that fact that I charge for my work. It is no longer a problem for me and I am never rude to anyone who is seeking “free advice,” they are probably my next new client!
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June 23, 2005 at 9:12 am #3177916
Free Advice
by vltiii · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I’m not sure why this is an issue. If you don’t want to help, just say no. If you want to be politically correct say, I’m sorry, but I cannot deal with personal problems on company time or my workload does not allow me the freedom to address personal technical problems, or any wording of your choosing. It’s really not that hard unless you’re worried about offending someone in which case I say give the free advice.
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June 23, 2005 at 9:15 am #3177910
Lighten up, and be prepaired
by ultra_blue · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Hello:
Apply your knowledge, folks. What’s the most likely cause of home machine problems? Right, scumware. So, create a CD with common scumware removal applications. Put some directions and a disclaimer saying you (and your employer) don’t take any responsibility for the use of anything on the CD.
Include links to your favorite sites for other questions, and commercial products (like virus protection software, backup software, etc).
Try to get your employer to agree to give the CD to *anybody* who asks for it. Put the files on a public share.
Put other stuff on the CD (things like helpful docs, your own words of wisdom, etc.).
Keep it legal and make sure you understand all the intricacies of distributing the files on the CD.
Educate your users. We’ll all be better served by it. If they want a quick-fix, either charge them your regular on-site rate or suggest someone who can help.
Offer your advice in exchange for lunch. This will help to establish the boundaries between work and not-work, and will re-enforce that your time isn’t free.
Offer your service in exchange for goods or money.
Don’t be passive aggressive — say no and mean it, or say yes and mean it.Blue
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June 23, 2005 at 9:17 am #3177906
Free Advice, Yes! Free Support, HECK NO!
by minjrb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
When you go to the train/bus station and ask an employee the best way to get somewhere, they do not charge you a fee. When you call a mechanic or plumber and ask them what they think might be wrong, they should not charge you a fee. When I am asked for advice, (as I was by my wife’s co-worker just before I started typing this reply,) I give them enough to point them in the right direction. I give that away for free, I even throw in a smile.
However, to ask me to take time out of my day and do work supporting your desktop or laptop, requires compensation. My true friends value my time as I do theirs. As a result, either my friends give me cash to, at the very least, cover the gas I use getting to their homes. Or, we barter like my good friend who is a lawyer. I give him and his family tech support and in exchange he gives me legal support. We are both professionals and we both understand that time is money.
Those to whom I have given free advice felt comfortable and confident enough to come back and ask me to provide support at my established rates. This has been extremely helpful in building a client base. Long story short, sow free advice, reap a network of clients, simple!
Get it? Got it? Good!
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June 23, 2005 at 9:18 am #3177904
Grow a spine it’s ok to say NO, ask my wife!
by chris · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Here’s the thing, people will not respect you if you always drop your pants when they ask for advice or help with IT matters, personal or business. What most people don’t understand is that a vast majority of IT folks are not your social butterfly, granted there are some, but not many. And most people who come to ask for help do not know if you have a life other than computers, and frankly do not care.
It’s ok to say no.. tell them that you like them and if you give them bum advice that you don’t want them to feel poorly about you. Secondly go find a hobby other than computers. Something that is so different there would be little chance of you getting asked IT questions. Oh and make up a story about what kind of work you do, you’re a diver or a bus driver.. not an IT professional. Makes you more accessable on a personal level.
So, like most who have said “This is a dead horse” they are right, it’s a zombie. It’s a bad penny that keeps coming back.
So, as Nancy Reagan always said “Just say no”. Go for the confrontation.. if you don’t you’ll just feel grumpy and pissed off that you are getting taken advantage of. As my 12 year old Son likes to say “Grow a beard and move to a foreign country.”
Tell them No.. if they get ticked, all the better they won’t bother you anymore. And if they are a true friend they will understand and respect you for that.
Blah blah blah.. too much talk, not enough NO.
NO
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June 23, 2005 at 9:36 am #3177889
OK….???
by jb1 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Grow a spine it’s ok to say NO, ask my wife!
OK… so now this guy – Chris – wants you to a: figure our a hobby to take up that is vastly different from your career just so people won’t automatically associate you with “IT” and fixit, and b: devise a complete lie about what your career is so no one will know what you actually do, hence can’t ask you any questions related to it. And this is supposed to also make you more accessible on a personal level? what are you Chris, a double-agent with the CIA or CTU or something? What an imagination. Ever think that maybe these people are already fairly accessible on a personal level or people wouldn’t be asking them questions for non-work related issues in the first place? Though I don’t know why – with the egos they have it’s a wonder they have any personal relations at all.
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June 23, 2005 at 9:19 am #3177903
A touch y subject isn’t it?
by sam01 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I gather by the number of responses to your query that this seems to be very topical. What people are missing is not whether you should or not (that would depend on the person and their situation) but more to the point “How to say NO to free advice”.
I’m sorry, but I am tied up on this project …
I don’t think it is appropriate for me to be looking at your personal computer …
As a rule, I don’t do ‘home work’ – it gets messy and personal etc …
I think you should get someone to look at it for you as I can’t do so, I can recommend someone (maybe) …
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I’m sure that given enough time, everyone can come up with a diplomatic way of saying no, and over time most people will come to accept that. It has a lot to do with setting the expectation level of the people you are dealing with, the problem is that if you have done this type of thing in the past, then the expectation level is that you will continue to do so.
Now if you had asked whether you should or shouldn’t give free IT Advice ……
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June 23, 2005 at 9:42 am #3177883
Response
by cavaughan · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to A touch y subject isn’t it?
Well, first what can one say when someone wants advice but you
don’t really want to. Depending on the person, one thing that I
often do is just tell people that they will have to physically bring
their computer to me. That often puts people off. Then, if they
agree to that, you can still just sit on the computer for days. And
if they ask you how the project is going, say, “Well, first I have to
finish company-related project A, B and C.” etc. – which you
should point out from the start. Next time they ask, you could
add in new project or issues that have arisen that prevent you
from addressing their computer, ad nauseum…..Another thing. I often make it a point to say, “You know so and
so paid me $xxx for doing the same thing.” I’ve found a lot of
people – although you don’t negotiate a price at the beginning
then compensate you for that figure – or close to it.Also, I do computer work for one auto shop. However, they don’t
pay me. They pay me in kind. Any oil changes, auto work, etc.
that I need they do for free.Finally, depending on the relationship, I have often done work
for free. Especially if it’s a non-profit. Being very pro
OpenSource, etc. I find personal enjoyment and satisfaction in
the fact that people refer to me for my skills and talents and that
they hopefully just appreciate what I have done. I hope they too
will take my ‘good samaritan’ service as an example and pay it
forward.-
June 23, 2005 at 12:11 pm #3177719
missing the point
by sam01 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Response
I think that 98% of the responses are missing the point … HOW TO SAY NO …
As a self-employed Business IT Consultant, I have a different opinion on whether or not to say no. The question was how to go about saying no to people that ask for advice …
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June 23, 2005 at 9:31 am #3177893
What is wrong with free advice?
by cumminsd · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I think you have to define the level of advice you are giving before you can lay down any “rules” on how to handle it. Is the advice on the level of asking how something works, or more like asking you to come over to their house to fix it?
By nature, we tend to ask questions of people who might know the answer. I play with cars as a hobby. When someone asks how often they should get their oil changed, it never crosses my mind to say “I can’t help you”. However, if someone asks me to come over and rebuild the engine in their old Ford, I tell them I don’t have the time but I’d be glad to give them some pointers or some contacts of people who would be willing to help.
By the same token, I answer a lot of computer questions whether it be on a programming or hardware level. Sometimes it’s with people I work with, or people I know outside of work. I don’t have a problem explainging things to people, or even spending a little time with them to help them out. If it’s a large, daunting task that I don’t have time for, I’ll tell them that.
I see a lot of IT people who think they should not answer a question unless there is money involved in one way or another.
I believe that as long as the situation isn’t being taken advantage of (and I know it does happen), there is nothing wrong with helping each other out.
Building friendships and trust pay out a lot more in the future than a few bucks in the pocket now.
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June 23, 2005 at 9:44 am #3177880
Opportunity Knocks…
by tlea · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
If the people are not asking for anything intensive, then it might be worth a few minutes of your time to help foster good relationships with the people in your company. Politics play an important role in getting what you want. After all, it is harder to say no to the guy that just saved your ass by helping recover those “deleted” files. Plus, being on good footing with the partners of the company is never a bad idea.
In those cases where you really just don’t have the time just say, “I prefer not to do this as I don’t have the time right now, but here is the number of someone who can help you.”
If you have the time, but not the motivation, asking for compensation is entirely within your right. Try to be reasonable when setting the price and be prepared to backup the support you just sold your client.
Above all remember the old adage, “You scratch my back, and I’ll scratch yours.”
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June 23, 2005 at 9:57 am #3177872
NO!
by ddelano · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Why on earth would you want to do that? If you need to stay busy, tutor high schoolers how to use the computer in a safe way?
Pretty Simple!
Ittech -
June 23, 2005 at 9:59 am #3177871
Refer to a help desk service
by jrvj.slaybaugh · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
One way is to tell them that it is very hard to implement a solution unless they are sitting in front of their home system.
I also tell people about this great help desk service I found called Answers-Now. They provide these kind of answers 24/7 for as low as $1.50 per minute and they get people off my back! All they need is a credit card and they call 888-870-4267.
I usually say something like, “I get these kinds of questions all the time and I find that you really need to be in front of your PC to really implement the solution. The best bet is to call this helpdesk called Answers-Now…”
It is an age-old problem. One I’ve never been able to completely get rid of. Good luck!
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June 23, 2005 at 10:08 am #3177860
Say no to the boss?
by pdpmurphy · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I would generally never say no to bosses…
However with other people if the advice is easily given then I tend to give it. If its a matter of trying to fix their problems then I generally suggest to them that PC’s are very complex nowadays (hence the need for IT people) and with such a lot of viruses, malware etc etc the problem could be caused by any number of issues. I end up by nicely pointing them in the direction of a local PC doctor shop.
Regards -
June 23, 2005 at 10:17 am #3177852
Just remember the 3 Hs Heart Head Honesty
by cfrankel · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Every situation and person is differnt. Just have a heart and help outr a coworker. Use your head and don’t get involved with USERS, that people who habitually use others. And be honest, say you don’t have a lot of time, or want to take a chance of being wrong and getting sued, etc..
I was was goining to offer this advise – for a price, but deided not to.
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June 23, 2005 at 10:18 am #3177851
Tit for Tat
by blackcurrant · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Hi there
I get the occassional question at work and try to answer them all. If a problem can not be resolved by discussing it I ask the staff member to bring their PC into work and I will spend part of my lunch-break trying to fix it.
With regards to friends – I have got loads of people setup, online, recovered deleted files, fixed registries, removed viruses etc etc etc….. BUT! I have also had lots of meals, drinks, BBQ’s freebies etc etc etc
Swings and roundabouts. Tit for Tat. Give and Take etc etc etc 😉
oooooh I’ve been censored over a false breast
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June 23, 2005 at 10:24 am #3177842
Advice, consulting, constant interruptions…?
by r32 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Having colleagues ask you for advice is an indication that they respect your knowledge. If the questions are simple such as “which type of hard drive setup is best for multimedia work”, then I don’t see why a response could not be provided. If, on the other hand they are asking for a complete system to be designed…well that is more of a consulting service then simple advice per say. If you are experiencing constant work interruptions due to employees walking in asking non-work related questions, then the best option is to be honest and respectfully let them know that you are busy. If the amount of interruptions only amounts to a scant few minutes a day, then it is more worthwhile to share your advice to keep up good working relations with your colleagues.
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June 23, 2005 at 10:31 am #3177837
Get a life
by iainbuchanan · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Just say No! if its that much of a problem otherwise do what the rest of us do and give the advice.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:02 am #3177800
Theft
by jld2 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Get a life
I’ve had this problem for over 20 years. Just tell your co-workers that what they are doing is equivalent to “embezzelment” They are asking you to mis-appropriate company resources. Then I breakdown my after hour consultation fee structure. They either go away or write me a check.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:01 am #3177802
RTFM or take a course.
by moralesj01 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Tell them RTFM that comes with the hardware/software they need help on.
Use the F1/Help functions.
If that is not enough then tell them to take a course, buy (and read) a book, or look it up on the web.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:31 am #3177766
I’ve done this…
by lwebb · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to RTFM or take a course.
I grab the thickest technical manual I’ve got, (WindowsXP InsideOUT usually works), hand it to them and ask them not to make me hunt them down to get it back.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:05 am #3177793
“RTFM”
by sql guy · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Tell them to “RTFM” – Read The Freakin’ Manual.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:15 am #3177779
It happens everywhere. My solution:
by stan20 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I just tell them that I can’t work on private computers unrelated to my company’s business on company time.
But, being a helpful person, I’d be happy to give them the names of some places that would be able to help them.
Or, I’d be happy to help them on my own time, for my usual rates. But, I’m a reasonable person. If they can’t afford it, and still want to go ahead, maybe they would trade their less skilled labor for mine, and mow my lawn for the next year or something, lol!
I found that if you help people out for free they expect more than if you had charged the going rate. Years ago, I fixed a disk problem for a friend of a friend, and since I knew he had little money, I didn’t charge him a cent for several hours of work. Five years later the disk failed again, and he seemed to think it was my fault, and wanted me to “fix it” again, for free.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:27 am #3177770
Free advice is worth what you paid for it
by john · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
If you are not charging for your advice, then it is not worth anything. If you don’t think your advice is worth anything, they it probably isn’t. If you education and experience are not sufficient enough to bring value to your advice then it’s not worth anything either.
I tell my friends that they should seek the services of a competent IT professional and pay for it, because you get what you pay for. People at work need to contact a help desk number so their request can be properly billed to their departments.
If IT is your hobby then I say go ahead and give it away. If IT is your profession then you are foolish to not charge for every bit of work you do. Anyone that can not appreciate that doesn’t know what it means to work for a living.
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June 23, 2005 at 11:46 am #3177752
Reply To: Say no to Free “IT Advice”
by jeddy · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Why is your advice not free? They’ve come to you because they feel you’re the expert. They’re not asking you to do the work for nothing (at least you haven’t mentioned that).
Consider their questions a compliment to your abilities…and if you don’t have time to deal with them at the moment, tell them so, politely.
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June 23, 2005 at 12:26 pm #3177712
Refer people to user groups or DYI forums
by computer_lady · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
This has come up a number of times for me over the years. Especially within the context of our user group, which I’ve been helping to manage since 1985. BTW, that is an excellent place to refer people to that are looking for free advice. We brief our ‘experts’ on the ropes of setting limits as they come into the organization. They decide when free advice needs to stop, and payment for a service call is expected.
I’m surprised no one has pointed this out here yet, though some mention has been made of DYI support forums. The only reason our organization still exists is because of the volunteer time donated by so many professionals. They consider that their way of paying their community back.
Of course, there are always those who come in with totally unrealistic expectations. Like the lady that wanted to ‘borrow’ a complete computer system and printer to print up party invitations. Or those that arrive with faulty systems in tow. Within those meetings is the ONLY location many of us will make an attempt to diagnose a problem for free. Most of the time the advice being that the system should be replaced, or be repaired by a technician of some kind. In the 20 years I’ve been involved, I think I can count on one hand the number of times the ‘problem’ has been relatively minor like a bad CMOS battery…
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June 23, 2005 at 12:36 pm #3177708
How to say “No”
by mattk · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
There is no gracious way to say no, particularly to co-workers and superiors at work. I personally have had to work on co-workers PC’s, especially exec’s, in every job I have had. The tenor of your message implies that you prefer to be paid for your time and effort. If this is the case, tell them that very thing, and use the example of the surgeon-nobody expects a surgeon to give away his services for free either.
What has been most successful for me was to discuss the situation with my immediate supervisor and take my cue from him. Most of the time the response was along the lines of “do not let it interfere with your primary duties and do not put in any extra hours.”
Helping the users never hurt my relationship with fellow employees, my career, or my reputation.
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June 23, 2005 at 1:44 pm #3177662
Find Another Line of Work
by deesy58 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Maybe you should try truck driving. I’ll bet not many colleagues would ask your advice about driving.
What an attitude!
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June 23, 2005 at 2:49 pm #3176956
Nothing is free.
by rlkeady · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Having been informed by several persons in a variety of professions that “giving out advice is how I make a living”, I now use their phase and add my own “I will discuss rates if you wish”. I have found that everyone wants free advice; very few are willing to pay for it.
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June 23, 2005 at 4:22 pm #3176914
SPECIALIST>>>>>>>>>>>>
by sysadmin/babysitter · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I reply: “I have been really specializing in XYZ (whatever brands of software and/or hardware) that the office/company is using. I don’t really know how your system will interact with the software. You could even have a computer virus. Why don’t you take it to XZX (local shop). I hear that they do a really good job……………….”
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June 23, 2005 at 4:57 pm #3176903
You usually receive MORE then you give
by jfejsa · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I never sad NO to providing FREE advice and never felt any regret for helping others. I am employed as a senior systems analyst/computer programmer for a large health industry organisation which employs over 14,000 people. I also support network administrators/systems administrators in maintaining and supporting the Local Area Network. As a result, most employees see me as a good source of information when it comes to programming/hardware/software problems/tips.
To imprive staff morale the management and IT department made a decision to make the process of assisting staff a formal procedure. I schedule 2 hours per week for public relations dedicated to helping staff sort their problems. Each individual can schedule a 10 minute meeting with IT HELP on Friday between 2-4pm and discuss any IT problems (work or personal) during the meeting. However, staff can only schedule one meeting per month, the meeting NEVER lasts more then 10 minutes and they are not allowed to discuss any personal IT issues with IT staff outside scheduled meetings. This method works great for our IT department. We believe that staff morale has improved, the management is happy with this arrangement and IT staff can work without disruptions during their normal working hours.
On the home front; my partner is always asking for FREE advice and as far as I am concerned she can have as much of it as she wants. I married her; I didn?t just sign a business contract with her. I also provide FREE advice to my friends and neighbours because I get along with my friends and neighbours and the amount of joy and advice I get from them in return is priceless.
PS: I also spend years at university to get a degree, never stopped studying since to keep up with IT technology, worked in the IT industry for over 20 years and never ever felt ripped off for helping my friends and co-workers. The doors we open and close each day decide the lives we live. I choose to leave my door open so others can come in without strings or credit card. Financial reward is not always the best reward.
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June 23, 2005 at 5:45 pm #3176893
Free advice but not free service/tech. support..
by presler · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Here are some of my experiences with such.
Officemate 1:
n officemete of mine asked me advice for a new computer setup. Then after giving him options, we got out and bought a new PC built from components I chose, then I installed all the software he needs. I did my best to answer all his questions. Then eventually on his own, he learned to install programs, maintain, and upgrade his PC (good for him). I didn’t ask or get any pay, but it’s ok.
Officemate 2 (bad):
Another officemate of mine asked advice on buying a 2nd hand notebook. The specs are fine and the condition of the unit is still quite good, so I gave him a go to buy it. Then he asked help me on setting it up and installing the necessary software, which again i helped him ( at no charge). But the problem is, everytime something goes wrong with his notebook, he calls me and asks me for what to do (even at past 9PM), and whenever he does something wrong, I fix it. Damn! (my officemate is an ass…. whatever!).
Still Officemate 2 (he’s really bad):
Officemate 2 (again) has a business client which had a problem with his PC, a Digital Video Recorder hardware/software setup in particular. The problem was frequent crashes and slow (P4-3.0GHz w/ 512MB RAM… how come?). So my officemate offered service, and then asked me to help him and then we charge his client. I warned him that I may not be able to put back or restore the stored video files. Even though I’m busy, I set aside time in fixing the said PC. Ok, the PC is in optimal condition but the stored video files cannot be played anymore (even the backup). And yes, all the effort, and still no pay (he is really an ass….).
Currently he just asked me to setup his client’s PC for background music system, for a fee. I don’t want to help him this time. If that breaks up or problems come in the future, I might be again be the “free technical support”.
Yes we may give free advice, and yes in some way we can help/support a friend/officemate. But there should really be limits. It may be hard, but we must learn to turn them down. We don’t want to put any big effort for nothing.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:00 pm #3176890
Why??
by helen.dickinson · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I am of the opinion that what goes around comes around. If you’re seen to be helpful, you will get it back in other ways. Why would you want to be awkward and refuse? Does it not make you feel good being able to help others without expecting financial reward.
As an example, I have had my car fixed for helping someone with their home computer. It’s called trading isn’t it? -
June 23, 2005 at 6:45 pm #3176886
RE: SAY NO TO FREE IT ADVICE
by netwerkss · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
If you do computer work on the side type of thing, then i would probably and more than likely charge them. I think that I would give them advice.
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June 23, 2005 at 6:46 pm #3176885
take it to the boss
by bobwinners · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I’m assuming you are on company time when this happens. Talk to you boss and let him decide. ‘Suggest’ that it would be nice to have a company policy on this issue.
OTOH, if you are getting calls at home, feel free to notify the caller of your rates. 😉
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June 23, 2005 at 7:59 pm #3176866
Misunderstood.
by anon78 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
The only problem I’ve had is being misunderstood. Friends and family think that an “IT” person can fix any darn problem with their PCs. Try telling them a DBA is different from web developer and they think you are trying to be superior or unwilling to help.
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June 23, 2005 at 8:34 pm #3176857
Set Boundaries
by dmiles · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Set your boundaries and hold to them,either you want to help or you donot and its obvious you dont.
Practice in the mirror saying no and learn to live with it no matter what the consequences.
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June 23, 2005 at 10:11 pm #3176843
ITS GOOD TO HELP OUT
by hollydj · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Helping out can have some benefits. Prove that we are not all like Jimmy Fallon’s SNL charachter “your company computer guy”
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June 24, 2005 at 1:13 am #3176816
Say you don’t work for free.
by firstaborean · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
When I was an electronics engineer, I got this sort of thing whenever I started with a new company, and I consistently replied that I had consulting rates, that I never worked for free in my field of work, and I then gave them my rates. I made it clear that I liked to help people, but I always kept my profession at a strictly professional level. Help a friend paint his new garage door? Fine. Help him repair his TV? Hundred bucks an hour.
It doesn’t matter what your profession is, just never do it for free, and make that a clear policy, no matter for whom (except possibly for an organized charity). By saying that you have a policy, always applied, you avoid making the asker feel snubbed, especially when you make it clear that, for other, personal help, you’re ready to lend a hand, whenever you have the time.
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June 24, 2005 at 3:32 am #3176808
A little sharing doesn’t hurt….
by jor55 · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
As long as the questioning doesn’t interfere with your work and is not a nuisance, what’s the big deal? If the questioner is a total imbecile and can’t make use of your advice, and is a real pest, then say, “I can’t help you more than I already have and I can’t take any more company time. Perhaps it’s time you engaged the services of a professional,and if you7re willing to pay the going rate, I can work with you after work or on a weekend.” or something similar. If the person to whom I gave the advice takes it, uses it, and says “Hey, that did the trick. I really appreciate it!” I am glad to share my limited knowledge. It7s one thing to be helpful and generous, and another to be taken advantage of. You have to decide if it is either and react appropriately.
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June 24, 2005 at 4:40 am #3176783
I can’t believe you posted this
by steve · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Sorry Pal, but I can’t believe that you wasted time posting this. If it is a big problem for you then just say NO. You know, No No No. It’s dead easy.
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June 24, 2005 at 5:22 am #3176769
Definitely a dead horse with flowers on the grave
by andeanderson · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
For most of us who have been in the IT industry for more than six months.
But, we must remember there are many new people who are running into the same old problems we have already faced and they are searching for “advice” from those who have already been through it.
There is no easy way to say “no” when someone asks for “free” advice. Each instance is different. If you really feel pressured or uncomfortable when being asked for advice you can excuse yourself because you do not have the time right now to help. Or, if you can take a couple of minutes and offer your advice, not your time and services, then give them your advice.
But, don’t just refuse outright. That is a dangerous road. You might need their advice or help in the future. People will always remember who they feel wronged them and sometimes, hopefully, they will remember how you helped them.
Sometimes we in the IT world forget that our tasks are part of a Team Effort and that others have worked just as hard, or harder, to achieve the position they are in as we did in learning the skills needed for the position we fill.
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June 24, 2005 at 1:05 pm #3178635
Be helpful – pays dividends
by beechbell · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
If you are not the owner or partner in the company, don’t get the reputation that you can’t help a co-worker or boss with a problem. One day, unless you are a total genius, you will need help with something. Besides, blowing off co-workers or bosses can be career limiting.
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June 24, 2005 at 2:00 pm #3178601
Remember what goes around comes around
by warnerit · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Unless these people are being really excessive and abusive, I think you should indulge them with some free advice with their home stuff. Take it as a compliment. They obviously think highly of your skills and trust your judgement. I always saw it as part of the territory. I actually got a lot of promotions and quick pay raises because I was known to be very helpful. And I got good referrals from these people when I started my own business.
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June 24, 2005 at 5:00 pm #3178553
What I did…..
by jess_wundring · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
….was print up a bunch of business cards with my “home computer consulting” information on it. I then passed them out to everybody who even looked at me twice.
I still get asked for help, but not so much and they always offer to pay me for it.
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June 25, 2005 at 12:13 pm #3178450
Team player
by sattolico · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
You should know by now that everyone wants free advice. The funny things is they very often don’t use it so … what do you have to lose? Except a few minutes of your time. You may even build bridges that you may want to use to cross a raging stream later.
Networking is the key and a few well placed help chits will pay back over and over.
If you think you should get paid for the few minutes then tell them to call you at home and what your rate is then step back and watch as word gets around you hard to deal with and a prima-donna.
Have fun. -
June 25, 2005 at 1:43 pm #3178432
Are They REALLY friends???
by thelurch · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Y’know you have a friend who absolutly needs your technical support advice for free. He’s/She’s a professional in another field (of course) and his/her job is dependent on the answers you can give him (or so he/she says)yet, if you were to ask this person for advice, they’d tell you that they can’t give out free advice without repercussions. This can be turned around to your advantage.
A friend of mine is a draftsman who decided to go to a flea market and purchase a cheap system to upgrade his own, but his hard drive can’t be recognized by the new system. He calls me up via my cell phone and asks me what to do, just as I am in the process of moving to a new place to live, so I tell him I can’t talk at that moment.
2 weeks later, he calls me and he still has the problem. Y’think maybe he could have gone to a retail outlet or even the people he purchased the system from? Nope, he expects me to give him free advice. If I were to ask him for free blueprints for a new house, do you think he’d just sit there and draw them up without charging me? I doubt it.Really, it’s because of our experience, technical training, and education that shouldn’t give out free advice. That’s my stand, and I’m sticking to it.
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June 26, 2005 at 10:09 am #3176548
You do or you don’t – Nice is not important
by willy macwindows · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
You either want to give it out or you don’t, let go of it being good or bad that you do or don’t. If you don’t want to help just say no – don’t try to reason it, just say no. If they think any less of you they don’t deserve the help in the first place.
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June 26, 2005 at 11:33 am #3176543
Friendly advice/assistance is OK…BUT-Set limits and STICK TO THEM
by r&d guy · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to You do or you don’t – Nice is not important
I found quickly that helping a few causes word of mouth propagation and it quickly escalates to unmanageable proportions.
This required a rule set.
1. Suggest self help. I created some template emails for this purpose.
2. Don’t help those who ask for advice/assistance then ‘turn brain off’ and want hand holding.
3. Enforce the same limits I impose on myself when asking professional friends for advice. Don’t allow abuse.
4. In any case enough is enough. I have a full time job and donate assistance of this nature to my church. There are a finite number of hours available. No excuses necessary and if they don’t understand this, the problem does not lie in me.
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June 26, 2005 at 1:05 pm #3176527
Work related
by hodolfo · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I had the same issues at work when I first started my job at a non profit. What do you say to these people who want it for free? If you say no, then are you committing workplace / political hari-kari? It is all in the way it is approached. People would often try to lure me in because they presumed that talking about what I love, would lead to their getting fee advice.I went to the MS KB and found some typical cleanup utility / kb articles that were useful and had instructions on how to do it. Once this was done then I said that “I don’t work on any machines that don’t belong to this company – which is what I get paid to do. But I can send you an email that might give you some pointers on where you might be able to solve the issue yourself.” With this I had empowered them, shown that I was willing to help and in an off hand kinda way illustrated that fixing a machine is WORK and that I get paid for it. For example, one of these people came back to me with ” That was a great email but it did not solve my issue”. I asked if they did any research on those websites. They resonded no. I sent them away to further investigate. They became frustrated and then asked if I would fix it for them. To which I said, ” I realize that it is difficult to resolve and issue like yours. There is a lot of research to perform in order to fix your machine. That is how people like me make a living. I then recommended a shop or IT friend in town that I knew did a great job. He got a lot of work from my people who were very satisfied with his work – and I get an occasional free lunch for the recommendation.
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June 26, 2005 at 1:41 pm #3176523
This is a question without credibility!!!
by mikebytes · about 18 years, 10 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I have been in this business since the big iron ruled and the “computer guy” had a priestly hold on the uninitiated. This began to breakdown once we started using PC’s and yes, MACs. It appears that now you want to bring that back by not answering questions. That is very near sighted and ignorant. You think you are protecting your jobs. If you are worth your salt there will always be things the computer guru can do that the average Joe will not or cannot do. If you want your world to grow, then figure out a way of communicating simplely to the unitiated, help build their confidence so they are compentent users and you will have plenty of work and the trust of others. You guys are a piece of work!
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June 27, 2005 at 3:38 am #3176439
“Where did you buy it?”
by billeger · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Assuming a request is for hardware help, my response is a question, “Where did you buy the machine?”
If they know then you tell them they must get their answers from the seller. And to sweeten the reason, mention that working on the machine by you or them could void their warranty.
As you know, that’s generally a true statement. If the machine is old or there is no warranty I will have long ago “forgotten how those work.”
Software advice? It’s to always use the apps that I most want but — probably — can’t afford. If they have something of lesser quality, it’s hard for me “to understand its interface and navigation.”
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June 27, 2005 at 3:16 pm #3177027
Warranty
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to “Where did you buy it?”
You guys are truly sad!!!
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June 27, 2005 at 6:57 am #3176316
Advice on “Advice”
by dvadams · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I don’t mind giving people advice. This “advice” generally presents itself as a tip on where they can find the information for themselves OR a local PC repair shop in town. This, of course, is said in a polite manner.
Generally I will not fix people’s problems unless I consider them to be a close friend or family member. Giving out a little advice or some tips, however does not usually take up much of my time. It’s not a bad way to build collegiality with co-workers and you never know when you might need some help from one of them (whether at work or otherwise).
Second option: get a t-shirt: http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/zoom/will-not-fix.jpg
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June 27, 2005 at 11:08 am #3177161
Building collegiality
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Advice on “Advice”
Interesting you should mention this. None of us know where we will be tomorrow or who we will be potentially working for. It’s not impossible that someday the person we said no to will be the hiring manager at a place we’re seeking employment. Not saying this is an automatic reason to give in, but it is something to think about as we temper our responses. Building bridges go a lot further than burning them.
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June 27, 2005 at 9:56 am #3177207
I figure it this way
by gtmullins · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
If they are paying you by the hour to fix the comuter, the more time you talk the longer it takes to fix, so the bill goes up. If your’e being paid by the job, talk only as long as your are working. It makes the time go faster.
Anyways advice is just that, take it or leave it. It’s one person’s idea. -
June 27, 2005 at 11:20 am #3177151
Not a personal soapbox, this is a serious BUSINESS issuex
by notforattribution · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
This is not a matter of saying NO: It is determining the business needs & implications of every request.
BUSINESS ISSUE. Does you company require staff to use home computers for business purposes? If so, is there a company obligation ensure the staffer’s computer is compatible/doesn’t harm the company’s systems? Your management needs to decide the parameters for maintaining offsite, privately owned computers. Some companies do sent IT staff to private homes to help install or troubleshoot connectivity that critical staff have–on billable time. Others let staff to bring in personal ‘business’ computers for ‘tweaking’ What’s yoor company’s policy on using PERSONAL computers for work, and what’s their policy for personal computer support?
STAFF TRAINING & MANAGEMENT. I had a staffer who would ramble for hours about how to fix a PC that he’d never set eyes on. That’s hours of work on site that he never got done.
a. Have your staff account for their time (maybe even issuing work requests with time in/time out logs) to give them an ‘out’ when being asked for advice (” I’ll be happy to, but I need to log it into the system…” “We need a service request for every computer we work on–can you call XXX and get this request into the queue?” “I can’t help you right now, I have XXX service calls to handle.” Yes, you become the heavy, but you are, after all, accountable for productivity. Besides, you may be giving your staff just the ‘out’ they’ve been dreaming of.b. More important, ASK YOUR STAFF. I’m guessing you’ve seen productivity issues, heard gripes about too much work and felt frustration at being sidetracked, or you wouldn’t be asking this forum. Once you’ve established company guidelines, work with your team to collectively establish your departmental guidelines–and the suggestions on this forum are a place to start. This isn’t an exercise in navel gazing, its an exercise in working together to solve a problem, develop procedures and refine processes.
3. SELF ANALYSIS. You’re a manager; that means you have to manage–yourself, your staff, and the business situation. Sometimes, you’ll have to bend the rules, and others you’ll have to come down like a sack of wet sand. Sorry, but it goes with the turf.
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June 27, 2005 at 2:55 pm #3177039
Original post ??
by nkent · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Not a personal soapbox, this is a serious BUSINESS issuex
Does anyone remember the original post? That’s a lot of replies! This will never be a dead issue!
Part of the original question was a nice way to say no. It doesn’t mean they don’t want boundaries or don’t know where they want them; the requestor wants a gentle way to let the moochers down. One was a partner and some were staff members.
So, I’d go for this:
For the partner, if they are your business partner, I’d give the advice anyway. They’re your business partner and you know that it will be reciprocated at some point.
If they aren’t your business partner, but rather a partner in the company, then use the same line you could with the staff members. “My time at work is paid for by the company and my work rules do not permit me to work on personal computers on company time. I have very little free time to freelance on computers, but there’s a [insert favorite computer store name here] right around the corner and they have the time and expertise to do a good job for you.”
It defines your work rules, says you don’t have any free time to help them, and still gives them some good advice about where they can get help instead of from you. I’ve used a similar line several times with good success, even once on a vice president. I’m sure you can tweak it to fit your needs.
Good luck!
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June 27, 2005 at 9:31 pm #3178354
FriendlyImage
by ozziedazza · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
At work I do not regard this as a problem, as long as it does not take up a lot of time….. The image of IT within the workplace is not served by saying “NO”.. Most IT persons are viewed as being rather abrupt and unfriendly and a little bit of helpful advice goes a long way to giving a better image of the IT Dept.
You can always be honest if it is eating into your time and say, “Love to help but I am really busy” or ” I am really sorry, but I know nothing or very little about that problem”.
However, I always try and help with advice, I do not take on fixing problems from work unless they understand that my time is valuable and as such they have to pay by the hour..(after work hours , in my own home). I used to have the same problem with neighbours until I started telling them that I now charged by the hour (advice and actual hands on)…. Genuine problems only now appear at my door with the owners only too willing to pay. -
June 29, 2005 at 7:53 am #3177375
In regards to free IT advice
by shelli_2003 · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I will usually give advice or help out friends and family. The staff members and partner, I would probably say yes but that “I cant right this second, I am so swamped with upgrades (whatever)..etc.. hows next week or the week after?”
Its the new aquaintences that hear you are in IT and start asking questions that I say “Oh is this a PERSONAL computer problem? Windows? Ohhh,Im sorry, if the box doesnt have at least 4 dual-core AMD processors and a Unix based OS Im totally lost..Try Googling the problem”
Works like a charm. -
July 1, 2005 at 7:37 am #3187808
Advise is cheap, let them have it
by pka · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
We generally just tell them that no 2 ppl use the machine the same. Ask the trouble, if it is simple we tell them how to take care of it, if not we recommend they bring it in and tell them the charge in advance. We gain a lot of customers that way too.
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July 1, 2005 at 12:03 pm #3187694
Back to the issue
by smallfred · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
It seems that this issue is a hot button for a lot of people and the debate ranges from the morality to the differenc between advice and support.
The question is not whether or not they should help or what constitutes advice versus service, but how to say no. Obviously the time and advice being asked for is not something that the original poster is comfortable with.
A few quick thoughts before answering the question, since we are already off topic… Maybe this puts me into the category of the ‘not nice’ people, but that is not for anyone but me and mine to judge. It is easy to pass judgement and try to stand on moral high ground when you have not been in a position that you felt uncomfortable giving advice in. There are ramifications to taking on the responsibility of giving advice and supporting other peoples things. Regardless of your profession. My husband is a mechanic, he does not take on outside jobs. There is the legal liability if something were to go wrong, not to mention the his time and the tools he has paid unbelievable amounts of money for. When he fixes them in the shop he is covered by the business, then there is the time factor. I want to see him!! We have a deal, I don’t take on computer problems outside of work and he does not take on cars (excepting family – of course). And last, his tools, just like the tools a good IT professional collects, are an asset he brings to the table. It is not fair to ask him to use them without compensation. Everyone makes their own deals and lives up to them in there own ways. No one else has a right to pass judgement on those deals. Okay, off my high horse and on to the original post.
There IS a problem with partners asking for advice on their home systems. It could be considered harassment. And is it ethical to spend your time on personal systems while on the company clock? Free was hired to work on the company’s systems, not the home systems of the workers, no matter what their rank in the company is.
To make a long story short (too late). The nice way to say no, is just a polite, ‘I’m sorry I really don’t have the time to discuss your problem and give it the attention it deserves.’ If you know of a good tech, recommend them. If not just leave it at that. There is nothing wrong with saying no.
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July 1, 2005 at 1:09 pm #3187662
Issues
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Back to the issue
Speaking of the moral high ground. Why do you think that your “opinion” carries more weight than any of the others offered here. Why do you think that you have more insight into the details of the original question than others. You get on your high horse and by definition you become guilty of the same thing that you’re ranting about. Once you get the attempting to answer the question, you make assumptions that were not part of the question. If you and your husband have a deal, that’s wonderful, but that doesn’t mean that everyone else has to have the same perspective as you. The purpose of this forum is for the expressing and sharing of ideas… read that as including those that differ from yours.
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July 1, 2005 at 1:52 pm #3187655
Easy answer
by edeldoug · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
For me, dealing with free support is easy…
I have been running a part-time home based computer services business on the side since 1996. When co-workers or friends ask me for help, I’m willing to share some free friendly conversation for a couple minutes… If I can give them a quick fix in 2-3 sentences, I’ll often do so. But if they want real help; diagnosis, instructions for a fix, suggestions and recommendations; I simply offer them my business card and tell them to give me a call to set up an appointment to look at it!
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July 6, 2005 at 8:18 am #3179932
In Two Minutes or less…
by jen · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
If it takes more than two minutes to “give IT advise” (as in you are talking to them, no action on your part) or whatever you want to call it, then tell them your per hour rate or hand them your rate sheet for your services.
If you have to do any action within that two minutes, then you better get a beer or another reward. If your action goes beyond two minutes, hand them your rate sheet.
The good doctor will not fix a broken arm for free and without special equipment needed to correctly treat the condition (which costs money) when someone asked his advice. However, the doctor appropriately referred them to the ER. If the child’s arm was just bruised, then the doctor would have probably recommended a fix that any ordinary person could administer with some ice and such advice could be given in less than two minutes and would let the person inquiring to perform the remedy. Same for IT.
If the person is a close acquaintance, friend or family, sometimes bartering for a similar value task that they can “help” or do for you that you could not do on your own is a good way to trade skills and knowledge. (Trade one hour of tech support for mowing your four acre yard from your college aged nephew, or get your leaking main water line valve fixed from your licensed plumber cousin) Then, you don’t feel taken advantage of, you are adding value to their skill-sets as well, and you get something taken care of that would have normally cost you the same amount that you would have received for one hour of your time.
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July 7, 2005 at 3:50 am #3182820
Here’s some free advice!!!
by edeldoug · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I received an email from a TechRepublic member who read my previous posting… ASKING for free advice. In this case, I not only gave the advice… I’m going to post it here too. Hope it helps someone.
Q: “I was reading the tech thread about asking for free pc advice. I am a tech as well. Well I am about to ask you for some free 2-3 minute advice.
I live in NY State. I would also like to start my own part time computer business. I am not sure where to start. Would you mind giving me some pointers on how you have made a success of your part time business?”
A: Best advice I can give in a couple bullet points:
1) KNOW your stuff. Be prepared for ANYTHING. Realize that most computer users know nothing more than how to turn it on and move a mouse. Be ready and able to inspire confidence. Don’t talk GeekSpeak. It is important to speak fluent 3rd grade English, even if it is as a 2nd language!
2) Be flexible and available. If you’re putting yourself out there as a PC doc, you’re on call 24/7/365. You will get panic calls at night, on weekends, on holidays. If you can’t immediately respond, you need to be able to settle the customer down until you can get to it.
3) Target your advertising. Don’t spend a fortune on a metropolitan radio ad if you only service within 3 zipcodes! Don’t buy a tiny ad in a big paper that’ll never get seen on page D-11. Go where your customers are. Buy an ad in your own church directory – you’ll get calls from people you see every week… who never knew you were a compugeek. Local/regional Journals are a good bet IF they get a high percentage readership. If they simply lay on the lawn till they’re tossed in the trash, why spend $ on them.
4) USE word of mouth. When you finish with a customer’s call, leave them SEVERAL business cards and ask them to share them with their friends.
5) Your personal vehicle can be a rolling mobile advertisement. Consider a rear-window graphic with your business name & phone #. You never know who might notice it.
(Hey, this is pretty good. I ought to post it!)
Doug Edelman
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July 7, 2005 at 10:12 am #3184179
Ok Mr. Bigshot…
by moucon · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Nobody is asking you to come over and work for free… they’re asking for a little help. These are *marketing opportunities* for you – get off the pedestal. I moderate a couple of online communities for “free” as well as jumping in whenever someone in the physical world needs a little advice- but thing is, you get back what you sow. This is the stuff that keeps me in business. Good thing you have a job at a company because you wouldn’t make it five minutes if you were out on your own.
PS – EVERYONE with any kind of a professional or trade position has probably gone to school, spent “thousands of dollars” and/or been out there in the school of hard knocks paying their dues. What the heck makes you king ?
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July 12, 2005 at 9:46 am #3183865
Negative
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
It’s amazing how some focus all of their energies on what could possibly go wrong and use that as justification to be snobs. What’s really amazing is that there have been many post here with happy endings from a little bit of advice or service given. In the end we all have to determine what our own level of tolerance is for for assisting another human being. I suspect that when it’s all over those of us that are more giving will reap the rewards of our generosity be it, a good lead on our dream job, increased marketability from trouble exposure, or just a much better reputation from our families, peers, coworkers, and supervisors. I think it’s those that have the snobbish attitude that because they work in IT they are better than others that give the industry a bad reputation. You guys come of as Prima Donnas and that reflects on all of us… unfortunately! You guys that are so willing to not help out should really take a little time to assess how those outside of the IT industry (in general, not always) view those of us that do, and maybe even try to ascertain why. But, like I said we all have our own perspectives and that’s what we have to operate off of.
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July 13, 2005 at 3:42 am #3184933
???
by mgelezov · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Negative
“As an IT Adminstrator I get a lot of staff members asking for advice on their home computers.
What will be a nice way to say “No” to free advice.” It was an initial question
My answer (and my opinion) is:
Do some work by yourself first, then come to me and ask me where to find an information. And i will tell where to find it. If you want to get something without any work done by yourself – pay me, and I will do it for you.
I do not see any snobism in here and I do not see any disrespect to my trade. Any work has to be paid.-
July 13, 2005 at 11:15 am #3184618
???
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to ???
I’m a proponent of helping people, but I’m also a proponent of making people self sufficient. I think you present a very reasonable solution. It basically forces the person seeking help to exhaust their level of knowledge first and as a side benefit, if they’ve done any research they may even become smarter in the process. When they exhausted all possibilities you give them a nudge in the right direction. Not bad at all, and certainly there is no contempt, disrespect, and shouldn’t damage anyone’s perception of you.
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July 13, 2005 at 2:35 pm #3184532
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July 18, 2005 at 10:44 am #3188931
???
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to ???
The fact that there is an expectation of compensation in general indicates snobism (in my opinion), there are instances where compensation may be appropriate, but I think that should be the exception and not the rule. I do however, respect your right to have your own opionion and realize that there are many within the trade that feel the same way.
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November 19, 2005 at 5:11 am #3117448
Free advice, sure!
by sbrooks · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Negative
I don’t find it a problem giving free advice, it’s only when the advice turns into unpaid work that it becomes a problem. Like when someone wants help re-installing windows, I’ll jot down the basics like how to boot from the windows CD and etc. But then some people start pushing the concept.
Like when I get asked over the phone to talk someone through installing windows, this is no longer free advice, they basically want me to sit at the other end of the phone telling them what to do at every step of the way, something I usually get paid a lot of money for. I don’t mind them “having a go” and then asking for help at a sticky bit and etc, but there are limits to what “free advice” should cover, each person needs to sort out what these limits are to them, because they are different for each person.
Now the other problem with free advice is, if it’s free some people simply don’t take it as seriously as they should. If I give a person free advice, it is exactly what I would do if I was standing there in person charging them $70+ an hour myself.
An example, I got called for help with an internet connection, it wasn’t working, all the computers were still networked but the internet wasn’t working, so I ask for the status of the lights on the modem, and sure enough the dsl light is indicating a loss of sync. So I ask them if they have called their ISP and checked for problems, no they haven’t, rather they had, but there was as a queue, so can I come and look at it. So I give them some quick free advice, call the ISP. But no, they want me to look at it personally, so I tell them if I do all I will be doing is sitting on the chair and waiting for their ISP to reply, and finally convince them to call their ISP, and I was busy on another job so by the time I got there it could be sorted out.
They didn’t call back, so it either worked, or I lost a customer, but he point is, a lot of people don’t really appreciate advice given for free, so I give it out sparingly, because a rare item retains its value.
Steve
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July 18, 2005 at 4:36 pm #3188803
Ask the correct questions
by tape monkey · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
1. Is it plugged in?
2. Do you just install something new?
3. Is the item causing the issue under warranty?
4. Did you contact the mfg help desk or go to their web site?
This will hold them off for at least a day.
Next time you see them ask them if they are still having issues if so then … tell them: If you have done these things and still don’t have a solution to your issue.
Then I will be happy to give you a box of clues so you can troubleshoot it yourself.
It only take 3 minutes to be polite and no feelings are ever hurt. They have usually found or fixed the problem themselves.-
July 19, 2005 at 9:03 am #3189863
???
by vltiii · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Ask the correct questions
What exactly do you consider polite about the statement “Then I will be happy to give you a box of clues so you can troubleshoot it yourself.” Your sense of values seems to be somewhat skewed! It almost seems as if you think end users should be as knowledgable about troubleshooting problems as you are. If that were true, why would we need you around, or any other formally trained IT professional.
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July 26, 2005 at 5:43 am #3193517
Don’t
by trailer · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Don’t say no. It may be annoying but supporting staff’s use of home computers is an excellent means of improving IT literacy and extremley cost effective. If you have an urgent task on fine you need to put people off but don’t turn them off. Eventually it makes the day to day job eisier as they realise they can resolve a lot of percieved problems themselves.
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October 2, 2005 at 10:07 am #3073639
CIO / Business owner
by psicotronica · about 18 years, 6 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Hi, fellow IT professionals,
How do I understand your complains.But, as someone stated, money is not everything. Competence recognition is always welcomed. If people asks you for an advice is because they think or recognize you have competence in the matter. (at least, more than they have?)
I do spend lots of money in training. Despite that, I am always polite with anyone who asks a question or request an advice. Even my competitors!But an advice is an advice, and giving some clues is sometimes acceptable; solving the problem for free is not! I usually answer ?I do not compete with my own business! It would be a lack of loyalty.?
Comments invited.
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October 3, 2005 at 4:07 am #3073494
have ur guidelines and make them follow it
by somebozo · about 18 years, 6 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
well depends on advice they need.. simple what to buy and what not to buy is ok.. sugessting a solution to some of their touble is ok.. i am considered the centre of technological evolution when it comes to shopping of electronics, wether they are friends, teachers, co-workers, friends of the friends, neighbours, blah blah blah..u name it… i would even support some users or fix other people computers, heck i even support a small business and an internet cafe for free.. it all contributes to my knowledge.. i enjoy the respect and previlliage i get.. what is the most annoying part is when someone nags me to teach them ISA, exchange, or simply anything. what am i .. a friggin teacher.. no.. i spend thousand of bux and hours in keeping myself updated and learning new skills and i am not goin to tranfer my skills for free.. u want to learn something.. go to a book store.. buy a DIY book and learn in.. i hate teaching…
what sucks more as mentiond by some here, is that when people are ungrateful and whine about paying for a part needed to fix their pc.. what the heck im suppose to do.. pay it off my pocket.. NO..i rather burn down ur pc..
But yes u should keep your guideline and who so ever wants the favour from u must be compling to your guideline. Do not call me during my work hours and do not nag me when i tell u i am busy right now and cant talk. Dont ask me the same thing over and over. Finally search the internet (google is your friend) before you ask me little things.
and if u r a chick sitting in star bucks and cant get ur wifi get working to access the internet, i will not come to the site and set it up for u.. even if u send me ur sheaffer and mercedes and offer me $$$…(belive me this happend with me)
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November 15, 2005 at 9:15 am #3131347
Be Subtle!!!!!!!!
by spidershrek · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
What i ussually do when someone at work comes up to me with a Home PC problem, i tell them, if you want i can tell you what it has for 20 dollars, and from ther i can tell them how much will i charge to fix it. Most of the time they never come back.
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November 18, 2005 at 9:00 am #3131095
It comes down to respect
by gus · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Be Subtle!!!!!!!!
I’ve been in this business for almost 30 years. I work for a school district with about 1500 computers. I get questions asked many times all day long. Look at it this way . They respect you enough to ask you. You don’t have to be ugly . I don’t work on machines for free either. I always send them to the local computer company. It helps his business and gets them out of my hair.
Like the show road house “Be Nice” it pays off in the long run. Not everyone can be as smart as a young IT. The cost of an education is expensive and it’s human nature to try to get information for free. You young fellows hang in there . Always remember “Youth and Strength are no match for Whit and Experience
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November 19, 2005 at 1:56 am #3117459
make the most of it
by info · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I get bombarded with “quick questions” and requests for help.
I try to determine as rapidly as possible whether the request will translate into billable work within the next six months or year or so.
My door is open to anyone who wants to share the problem they are experiencing.
I do not want to waste an opportunity to match my services (I package help and advice as a service) with people who are willing to pay for them.
At the same time, I do not wish to jeopardise a long-term relationship for the sake of short-term opportunism.
I believe I would never accept work that is detrimental to my primary client. I don’t want to let small stuff become obstacles to continued relationships which are much more valuable.
Frankly, unless an individual has a high net-worth, it is very difficult to provide services to them that are valued more by them than the sum of the monetary cost of the service.
Usually, but not necessarily, a business group or an individual operating a business has much more “use” value for what you can offer and will have no problems paying you for any help and advice which will enable them to better do what they already do as an extension of their existing goals and objectives.
After considering all these issues and related issues on a case by case basis, I eventually determine whether or not I will do what is requested of me and what I will do it in exchange for.
Pro bono can pay a lot. Many times I have done pro bono work to the point where the person requesting the work became so guilt-wracked they paid me twice over for the services rendered. And refused a refund of the extra money claiming it was my bonus. This kind of thing can more than adequately compensate for the leaner times.
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November 19, 2005 at 6:24 am #3117433
Fair is fair, then theres abuse.
by cybersecurity · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
Advice is free, service cost, tho if advice comes down to, how to do, in many cases, which turns into hours of talking, then it too, comes with a price.
Out Of The Inner Circle
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November 19, 2005 at 2:36 pm #3117370
no
by master3bs · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
just plain… no.
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November 20, 2005 at 8:45 am #3117313
you think you’ve got problems
by fehrle_sa · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
I currently work part-time, to keep my license current, as an RN in an office with 2 doctors. In addition to my nursing degree I also have a degree and 12 years experience in IT. They started out by asking for simple IT advice, which I was happy to give, now its full blown tech support AND my nursing duties. But I’m not getting spit for the IT part. So my take on this is NIP IT, NIP IT, NIP IT!
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November 22, 2005 at 10:03 am #3123615
Well,mostly
by htos1 · about 18 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Say no to Free “IT Advice”
No,no free IT ‘cuz of a no compete clause in my contract(except for my prior clients-they’re very happy about that)except for family-that’s not negotiable as the tech head in the family and my parents deserve a little return on all those investments while I was a kid-i.e.radios,electronics,science kits,plundering Dad’s gear,etc. 🙂
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