General discussion


So, what if Linux won the war?

By Oz_Media ·
What if Linux won the OS battle, put MS out of business and MAC ran and hid under the bed? (shhhh, stop laughing)

Right now, as Linux has next to no market penetration at all, it isn't a target or virus writers and PC hackers/trackers. Therefore the big Linux boast is how secure and solid it is, like a rock.

However, being thrust into the market forefront, do people actually believe that Linux would remain stable and secure with open source code?

First of all, they'd HAVE to start boxing and selling retail versions as you wouldn't be able to trust downloads anymore; it would be far too easy to corrupt an install from a downloaded file, redirected website or sppofed link.

Secondly, the price would soar, packaging, delivery and marketing costs. That means they have to offer a value added service to such retail clients such as user support, warranty and exchange etc. Once again pushing up costs of boxed, safe product.

Of course to stop any black market resellers that would sell hacked copies, now they have to licence it, and again the cost goes up.

So now you have Linux sold just as Windows is, no cost benefit there anymore.

You have a system that is the market forefront and the target of hackers worldwide, security is reduced, thus requiring patches written by Joe's 16 year old son, David. (it is open source afterall, isn't that a key benefit?).
David's new patch opens up another area of exploit, reduces system stability and causes crashes (just to be fair we'll call that the Linux Screen Of Death (LSOD)).

People will then expect to be able to play games on it too, so yet ANOTHER third party extension is added for free download. That free download is not trustworthy unless from a secure server. So the company providing that download has to start charging for the LX12 gaming interface for Linux. LX12 costs $99.00.

I've already paid for a "safe" version, now I have to pay for a "safe" gaming interface too? Man, this Linux license stuff is a rip off!!!

By now, Windows has all but disappeared, owns less than 15% of the marketshare. People stop writing viruses for it and the few remaining developers just offer the code online to fellow Windows fans to work on and stabilize. Windows now becomes less bloated as there's simply no need for all the patches, add-ons, security updates, licencing etc., they decide to offer it for free.

TR is then filled with posts stating, "10 reasons why Windows is better than Linux", with such reasons as 1) It's free you don't have to pay for licences. 2) It is more stable 3) it has a smaller footprint 4)it is more intuitive and easier to use ....

So what would happen if Linux won the war?

Free, stable and untargeted OS for the world to use? Sure.

Linux fans are far better off just keeping their heads down, enjoying their private club and forgetting about LWD - Linux World Domination (Muwahahahahahaha ]:) ), it aint going to happen and if it did, you wouldn't like it anyway.

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Is this bad form?

by Oz_Media In reply to So, what if Linux won the ...

I posted yesterday, while everyone was stuffing with the turkeylurkey. Hope you all had a good Thanksgiving!

Don't know if it's bad form to bump your own post but it got buried behind "How do I?" questions/discussions pretty quickly.

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"What if?"

by santeewelding In reply to Is this bad form?

Never in bad form when handled well, which I think you did.

You have to realize, though, you're competing with mud-puppy pets.

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Linux ignorance

by glee610 In reply to So, what if Linux won the ...

I want to point out somethings.
even if linux became main stream.

a) Linux has a community to back them up. the more the people join the bigger the community. They are not young teenages. They are elite programmers.

b) Opensource doesn't mean more bugs or more viurs b/c you can see the source code. It means nothing. But I do understand that they're virus and bugs; thats why we have the community to help. If you ever heard of de-commpiler you can do the samething with close source but that is besides the point.

C) The linux programmers are not bounded by polics written by management. They are free to write what they want and have community option on it. This would lead to produce better, tight code that m$ could never do.

D) linux programmers or the community get back to you personaly. m$, does get back to you but it takes time. And than sometimes they will just give you the run around or nothing at all.

E) Last but not least I would like to know how much programming skills and knowlege do you have ?

I think you have some great business explanations but linux is not a business but a community. Communitys grow, business do but they have to met the laws of business. Where the linux community doesn't. I agree with you but it's b/c of ignorance that linux will not be top OS.

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Yup, that's Linux ignorance all right

by Oz_Media In reply to Linux ignorance

First of all you feel a small community is tah answer to all problems posed, however if they took over from Microsoft, buh-bye small community.

a) Linux has a community to back them up.

Super. Now if that community became global, how do you know who writes secure code, patches and fixes, updates and new software and who purposely writes patches that are expoits or virus'? When a new VERIFIED and trusted patch is released, how many 'rogue clones' would hit the market too, as we've already seen with MS updates and that's a closed source code.

b) Your community argument...again.

Now instead of your community being neighbours and helpful friends, picture all kinds of wierdos moving into the neighbourhood, playing as friendly community members but having their own agenda in mind. Now make that community global and tell me how you will monitor and control who gets in to your trusted community and who can't be trusted? You'd have to limit access to a small "community" of people, thus creating a closd source code that others can't decompile and play with.

c) Your community can write better tighter code than MS.

Fantastic, but with a global community who is writing the code? It's not just your friendly peer group anymore but a global population of people you trust that are trustworthy, people you trust that aren't trustworthy, people you don't trust that are trustworthy etc.
Who determines what is safe and what isn't? You, your community? Sure, that'll work. Now you are just segregating Linux into a series of provate communities, thus the OS can never standardize and would NEVER EVER become widespread enough.

d)How many linux members will get back to you personally when they have more than a billion people who trust and want their input?

That's my entire point, which your post completely ignores. You are still thinking small, community based. This is a what if scenario for taking over as the world's most common platform, just as all 'nix fans think it should be.

If you really feel the world will work together harmoniously for the better of the OS and malicious intentions will not be there, you need to go outside and meet a few strangers.

e) My personal programming knowledge is absolutely irrelevant. I've written some C++ and I can write and get around Python scripts pretty well, however that means absolutely nothing with regard to the price of eggs these days.

"Linux is not a business but a community"

So you didn't understand the original post at all, if you did you would understand that I was referring to Linux being the globally preferred OS, do you REALLY think it would be a community thing between 'online friends and peers' and not HAVE to become a multibillion dollar business at that point?

Between your community focus and comments with respect to my own programming skills, you have offered nothing of relevance at all.

Thanks for your input all the same though, it speaks volumes.

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I didn't know ...

by glee610 In reply to Yup, that's Linux ignoran ...

Your acting as if I just insult you. I was talking in genral terms. I was mearly stating that linux has a community that grows with popularity. If you think about it, if everyone contributed and put it togather them **self***. key world here is self. I would think that we would have an excellent O/S which could in time be the globel standered b/c of it's openness. also, I said, that question was not pointed at you. It was pointed at everyone, I believe that the reason most people don't adopt new and creative things (linux) is b/c your ignorane and lazyness to even try or learn. Again, not saying that about you, i know how touchy you are. I am agruing to you about the facts that the reason why linux will never be " the top dog" o/s.

My understanding of business is very far and you point out some good facts but like i said before to many variables to make a bold statement that we never have a linux system adopted by everyone.

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Your acting as if I just insult you. I was talking in general terms

by Oz_Media In reply to I didn't know ...

Your title was Linux ignorance. If that was misconstrued as meaning you thought my comments were ignorant, I do apologize.

you still seem to be missing the whole focus of a global standard though.

" if everyone contributed and put it togather them **self***. key world here is self. I would think that we would have an excellent O/S which could in time be the globel standered b/c of it's openness.

Not at all, in fact open source is impossible to standardize.

If everyone puts together their OWN system, there IS no standard, that's the whole point of standardization, every aspect must be asolutely identical for all customers.

To explain computer stndardization, when a large company needs to invest in many computers, they seek out a manufacturer that guarantees standardization. That means that for a predetermined time frame (say 5 years) EVERY SINGLE COMPONENT of that system can be reordered and is identical to the initial investment. If one PC uses a Seagate 500GB hard drive, they ALL use the same exact part number. Up to 5 years from that initital purchase date, any hard drives replaced will also be guaranteed to be identical. THAT is standardization. Take a low end company like DELL for example, they use loss leaders, they uy out clearance parts etc and uild machines. Though many will use teh same parts by sheer fluke, there is no guarantee that if your Seagate 500GB HD drives next year, it will be replaced with an identical part, you may get a Western Digital or even a different Seagate, but thye don't guarantee a standard. When you buy IBM business machines (not from retail stores) you pay a lot more but they will also gurantee standards for a minimum time frame. (eex. 5yrs)where anything you get replaced or even if you add a new machine to the network, it is identical in every way.

So back to your theory, if everyone does their own thing and source code is left open, you simply cannot achieve standardization, it is literally impossible due to ann open source business model.

I don't think people avoid Linux due to ignorance at all, and that has nothing to do with why Linux won't take over the world. For a usiness to imvest in business workstations, pay for support and have software that is equally supported by manufacturers that are responsible for it's code and supporting it in house, there is no possible way they will seriously consider Linux. The very few that do are shops that are focused on IT, networking etc that have endless numbers of technical staff on hand.

There is then the compaitbility issue, and NO, Linux isn't as seamlessly compatible as some woul dlike to make it seem.

Legacy apps that cost businesses tens of thousands to develop may always require a flavour of Windows.

Sharing documents across multiple offices and ubsinesses is a lot easier for some people as they use common MS office apps (myself I PDF everything so it doesn't make any difference to me). My boss likes to send everything out as a word doc, our suppliers send us countless Excel spreadsheets which are also integrated into our accoutnign software. No, Open Office does not offer the same functionality or compatibility, I've tried it.

Again, not saying that about you, i know how touchy you are. I am agruing to you about the facts that the reason why linux will never be " the top dog" o/s.

Of course that is not insulting in anyway, you seem to know me so well and know how "touchy I am" and, as you have agreed yourself, business is not really your strength.

So once again, as I mentioned in my first post, your view that if open source was a standard (that's an oxymoron)then the Linux community would take over, if people weren't so lazy that they just used what worked and was suported instead of venturing into something new, there'd be a chance.

So your first hurdle is educating people who already know and can efficiently use one system, that they are better off learnign a new system instead.

Your next hurdle is finding them support, teaching them that they can no longer rely on a single developer or support contract but must now rely on a free, online community of peers they neither know nor trust, to work out issues with their sensitive company data.

Your next hurdle is providing Linux for free and havign it secured. good luck with that one. You'll need a single, secured sever that is locked down like the safe at Brinks, but available for anyone to access 24/7 with utter repliabilty. If not, people will be able to download form any unrtrusted source and would never be sure to have a safe version.

I suppose the next of the countless hurdles would be cost. As your main server which provides the only safe open source code to all users, needs to be maintained and a LOT of bandwidth must be paid for, hope you're feeling generous in your effort to rid the world of MS, it costs a lot of money!

It reminds me of an old Monty Pthons sketch actually, how to play a flute in one simple lesson.

1) First you low in one end
2) Wiggle your fingers up and down the other end.

or how to rid the world of all known diseases:

First you become a doctor and develop a cure, then you tell all the other doctors jolly well what to do!

It's simple and hopeful but far far from realistic.

There's SO much more behind Linux's failure to rise to teh top than simply users being too ignorant to accept it. I've done SUSE rollouts myself, to organizations that used Windows for years. There are a LOT reo concerns that you have put forth.

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by Jremmy In reply to I didn't know ...

I use Linux at least 10 hours a day. I am not an expert like most of you but I like Linux over Windows. It seems everything you do on Windows has a road block or some B.S. error message or some other issue that drives you nuts. I also think that a lot of M.S. users are extremely misled about Linux. I have seen so many false accusations and charts that M.S. dreams up and puts on the net and people believe it because M.S. said so. M.S. is more common sure but that is because all these people grow up in a Windows enviroment and don't know any better or are just to lazy to learn something new. Honestly, I have to touch up on my Windows knowledge because I started on and still use Linux. It sucks for us nix users because the rest of the world is brainwashed with WINDOWS, WINDOWS, WINDOWS. And why is it so horrible that you can manipulate Linux to your liking? I just wish that there weren't so many distros. I wish that we could come together I know its cliche but seriously if all these programmers came together and made 1 KICKASS distro of Linux it could compete and have more desktops, laptops, servers, etc with Linux right out of the box. It is cool to do your own thing but if Linux will ever be as big as M.S. or MAC people are going to have to come together and produce a knock down, drag out distro. BTW I HATE WINDOWS LOL J/K don't flare up on me OZ you hemroid you. Have a good one everybody.

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Oz a hemorrhoid

by santeewelding In reply to Linux

I hadn't thought of that one.

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by The 'G-Man.' In reply to Linux ignorance

all that would really happen if the entire world was running on Linux.

'Elite Programmers' getting back to Joe Shmow about his printer driver issue.

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They are not young teenages. They are elite programmers.

by drowningnotwaving In reply to Linux ignorance

You can absolutely guarantee that??? No single exception?

No possiblility of the Ruskie or Middle-Eastern cyber-virus crew getting in there, just for laffs???

Side-splittingly funny !!! :)

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