TechProGuild Feedback Forum: John Sheesley

Did you post this in the Tech Pro Guild discussion group? I looked but didn't run into it.

As a TR peer, I do not belong to TP Guild as it has never offered anything that couldn't be found elsewhere for free. Now I know TPG has had a facelift and is apparently offering new incentive to members but wouldn't THIS TPG specific discussion be best posted either IN TPG or at least in the TPG discussion group?

Forgive me if it already is, but it seems to have been posted as a general discussion, which it is not because only TPG members can offer input.

Welcoming a discussion on the presidential elections? You are either looking for conflict (haven't you seen the political feuds here?)or you are segregating a GLOBAL forum by asking for topics that are US only?

I know you are simply looking for any discussion but that's what this discussion group has always been for isn't it?

Starting a new discussion group within a long time discussion group sounds a little off to me.

OM

Ah! I see what you're saying now... and yes, I did leave out a very important part of that Welcome message... it wasn't meant to have been a Generic Welcome To The Discussions message.

Rather, it was a welcome to my own personal message thread. A small discussion thread, or lack of a better word - forum, where members can interact directly with a senior editor on any topic.

That's why my particular name is in the topic. Other editors, such as Senior Editor Jim Wells, are also going to be starting little discussion threads along the same lines.

With our regular duties, admittedly the senior editors dont always have or take the time to see what you all are discussing here in the forums. So, we thought it would be a good idea for some of the editors to maintain a personal thread where TechRepublic Members and TechProGuild subscribers both would be guaranteed that we would occasionally stick our noses into -as you can see by the back and forth banter we're having here.

Does that make more sense?

John Sheesley
Senior Editor

Come November, with any luck, the worst president in America's history will probably be replaced by a candidate who will quite likely turn out to be the second worst president in America's history.

I pity Americans who have to choose between a proven incompetent president, and a potentially incompetent president.

First of all, it's Ric Flair. Show some respect to the Nature Boy.

Second, to be the man, you've gotta beat the man.

Whooooooooooooo!

....is that she is not as stupid as she is portrayed. I think the whole "chicken of the sea" thing is a put on cause it gets attention and viewers.

Its just a theory. Suzanne Somers wasn't the dumb blonde she portrayed either.

James

Well comparing the incapability of the president of the United States to Rick Flair vs Hulk Hogan is just a great comparisson I think. It really shows the true mentality one must have when choosing the next wannabe leader of the free world.

Quite honestly I don't pity you at all, Americans take their politics to heart and feel very accountable personally for the presidential actions, only in the USA.

Last night I TRIED to bring up Canada's election while hanging out with a few friends and a few cold beers. It lasted a whole 35 seconds with the general feeling being "Who gives a crap, it doesn't matter who you vote for, they are all empty promises that change once in office and you can't do squat about it then. Very much like the crap GB has thrown and people STILL stood behind him for the longest time as if he was going to come through in the end. Give up, you are lied to, mislead and then BS'd some more for four years. It doesn't matter what the crocodile smiles say approaching the election, once in office it all changes, the lies flow and we wait until the guy is voted out or impeached before the truth of what really hapened can surface.

I don't see how you can all take it so seriously, it doesn't matter who you vote in, they say one thing and do another.

When you have a choice between a loser and an idiot, what can you expect anyway?

Although she is neither a rare specimen of beauty nor a bright one, but to reduce her to the mentality of the US president is low for even a douche bag like Jessica.

If GWB had a brain he would pull it out and play with it. If he had any credibility he lie and say he didn't have any. If he had the American public's best intentions in mind, he'd simply step down and let someone else take over.

You only have a couple of morons to choose from, neither have any credibility so as long as you get someone different it will at aleast remain entertaining to watch American politics for a few more years. Get out the kaliope, send in the clowns, America is electing a new one.

I dont know of any one else here at TechRepublic that bleeds Novell Red more than me, but even I recognize the fact that NetWare does not, nor will it ever, dominate the networking operating system market the way that Windows does.

Now, you made reference to NetWare Linux... unfortunately there IS no such thing. Novell indeed does own its own Linux distribution now in the form of SuSe and is in the process of porting some NetWare services over TO Linux, but it's still not NetWare. NetWare was and is a seperate operating system running its own unique kernel. A kernel which Novell itself has said that it probably wont continue to develop.

Therefore, with the NetWare/Windows debate essentially settled in the marketplace. The question is whether Novell can get traction with Linux against the Microsoft onslaught. RedHat certainly hasn't had a whole heck of a lot of success. Novell does bring a name to the Linux brand and a track record of understanding and being able to work with business. Sadly, they don't do a very good job of marketing or working with the vendor channel.

Even so, except for for the things you've sited, you dont hear a whole heck of a lot about people ripping out Windows installations and replacing them with Linux. Mostly you hear about people retiring old reliable NetWare 3.x and 4.x boxes and 'upgrading' to Windows 2000 or Windows Server 2003.

TheChas has a point there... unless Senator Orrin Hatch's proposed constitutional amendment to allow foreign born citizens who have been here for 20 years to run for Prez gets some support. Some have referred to it as the Schwarzenegger Amendment.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/22/elec04.prez.schwarzenegger.ap/

I think we'll see Reagan on the $10 bill first.

Novell has been VERY actively marketing in BC as well as the rest of Canada and Europe.

I have been to more than seven Novel seminars this year and have only seen ONE Microsoft booth at a trade fair in Vancouver, MS just doesn't sit well here.

as far as Linux, HP/Compaq and IBM are already selling workstations AND servers with Novell Linux in them (Ximian and SUSE, which blow away any RedHat efforts) XD2 has MAJOR advantages over Windoze, Open Office is phenominal and pretty much handles any office document in it's first release, with the exception of some macros in Excell.

Novell has taken a MAJOR turn in incorporating the Linux kernel, on the contrary, I see more Novell installs than Microsoft. BC Institue of Technology ofers more Novell and Linux courses than MS because it is in higher demand. Novell is FAR more stable than Windows will ever hope to be, easier to maintain, more resourceful and a lot more affordable than MS. Ms is a dirty word in Canada, it just sucks and everyone knows it now.

Most people in Vancouver have turned against MS ANYTHING (whether server, desktop, games, office etc.) as people here despise Bil Gates and his typically American business tactics that as I've said before, just don't fly here. We aren't American or even remotely similar to Americans, in Canada.

When I was in Europe last, I saw nothing but Novell seminars, luncheons, product showcases etc. They are targeting hard, although their marketing efforts in the US seem few and far between.

I don't even know where to buy a copy of server 2003, I could probably get one from my reseller on order but it is not a product of interest here anymore. Those with SOME Network knowledge use the latest Netware 6.5 with GroupWise email as it offers a far better suite of STABLE tools than MS Server 2003 (such as i-Folder, which can't be beat) and for less money, thus providing better ROI. Those a little more savvy will jump on the Novell Ximian for Desktops package as it offers a full set of desktop goodies, email software (Evolution, Exchange compliant), Open Office a true office suite and much more in the initial box for less than $99.00. No more licencing everything you want to complment your desktop.

Until Microsoft can create a stable DESKTOP and NOS, that comes packaged with MS Office, MS Exchange and other fter market offerings, they will have their work cut out if they wish to remain on top. Novell's market share has grown drastically in the past two years, they have shown margins WELL above Microsoft and are gaining market share daily. They are certainly going to provide a viable alternative for all those milions who are sick to death of a MS products.

So will you be the next person to make a massive market prediction and be caught with his pants down?

"We will never need more than a 386."
"There is no use for anything more than a 750 MB hard drive"

"...but even I recognize the fact that NetWare does not, nor will it ever, dominate the networking operating system market the way that Windows does."

Right, and Japanese compact cars will never outsell the North American auto industry.

Instead of looking ahead 5 or even 10 years, look backward. Microsoft has done nothing except make personal computing easier. They have created more nightmares than ANY other player in the industry, their software is the most insecure product available, the most targeted and the most exploited and unreliable. People are getting sick of it, as they have for many years now, other players who once lead the market are now providing MUCH better value for money in their solutions, peace of mind and security. This is EXACTLY what businesses are seeking in network software now.

As for Ximian, I have just today been contracted to tear out yet another a mixed Unix MS environment to be replaced with Novell Ximian, XD2 for desktops and Evolution email.

It's always the guy who sits and smirks at the top of the hill that falls farthest.

Novell is going nowhere but up, MS products aren't going anywhere either, perhaps that's the MS problem, they are in a comfort zone and that is exactly when you start to get pushed around.

So to conclude, I wil agree that MS is going to dominate the US market, as you have all chosen to make it that way for some reason. It is definitely not a favorite in Canada, Gemany or England, or....

I think the difference for IT stff will be when they realize that being an MCSE is about as effective as having grade 12 and pays about the same.

Novell MCSE's are still in demand and reap higher pay as the budget isn't split between 12 IT staff members and there is less competition for work.
The high number of MCSE's, whether real techs or just thiose who cheated to get a quick cert and join the IT ranks, is another reason MS products are so widely reccomended in the US. Once the schools there start teaching mroe MCNE's, Novell will be reccommended more often and the scales will balance. Staff reccommendations are a GOOD portion of MS sales, not product capabilities.

Anyone read the 970 page "My Lies" William Jefferson Clinton yet - I am waiting for them to go on sale for $5.00 after the hype - for some great chuckling and laughter - why spend $35.00 wait for the sale ...

Just wondering if anyone has purchased it - and what they think of it...

How about the Induce Act - BS legalisation or valid protection against Child Pron...

I remembered something about - it was founded by Astophlis Busch and something Anheuser - two German imagrints ...

I am a Iron City man myself so it doesn't matter to me ... most people outside of PA never hear of Iron City except during the Steelers Super Bowl victories..

You dont usually see those types of things, but I guess as Novell embraces Linux, that sort of thing is to be expected.

Again, let me restate my fondness for Novell and NetWare. I've been working with NetWare for closing in on 20 years now. I've supported it as a network administrator in both governmental and industrial settings. I've acted as Senior Editor and Editor-in-Chief for two different organizations primarily focused on NetWare. I *bleed* Novell Red.

As you say, Netware is much more stable than Microsoft Windows. Even Linux has a reputation for stability that far eclipses Windows. And with Novell working on a Linux kernel, Im sure you'll see their technical expertise and the understanding of business come to bear to make Linux and even more acceptable business alternative. You wont get an argument from me there.

However...

What you're presenting is a very Vancouver, BC, Canada perspective. I would argue that as a model for the world, it's a little less representative than the US model you so vehemently protested.

If Microsoft weren't so dominant in places like Europe, you wouldnt see the EU taking them to court to wring cash out of them for competitors.

It's a matter of free market economics. Does Microsoft make the best network operating system and solutions for business? Probably not. Does it make the most SUCCESSFUL network operating system and solutions for business? Clearly.

Now why's that? Why would Windows so dominate if it's not good? The fact of the matter is it's not great in comparison, but it's good enough. Windows 2000 Server was much more stable than Windows NT, and Windows Server 2003 is even better. Exchange has also improved over time. There's a margin of difference in quality, that's neglible to the average person who's non-technical and in charge of purchasing, than the person who actually has to support the box.

Microsoft survives by being good enough and by the marketing relationships it developed with computer manufacturers, vendors, and the marketing channel. As a Novell Engineer you know that one NetWare 6.5 server can do the same tasks that you need 4 or 5 Windows servers to do when you factor in such things as file and print, email, DNS, DHCP, and directory services.

How do consultants make their money? How do hardware vendors make their money? How do resellers make their money? How do software manufacturers make their money? By selling and supporting boxes. If you had the choice between selling one solid operating system on one solid machine... or by selling and supporting 4 or 5 machines that you'll have to make frequent support calls on, which are you going to push? And which will dominate sales reports as a result? And which will grab mind share, which will also result in market share? That's what I thought...

You can talk about IBM (and others) all you want, but they might as well have given their vaunted $1 billion investment in Linux to me for all the good it did them in denting the Microsoft market share.

Actually, don't quote me on this but I thought the age req was 40 years old (and yes I do have a copy of the Constitution at home in book format to check - when we graduated HS each graduate was handed a copy along with a copy of our state's constitution as well).

I was purely joking, besides the more obvious fact that they are female -- and I'm sorry to offend anyone here, but this country won't elect any female president at least not any time within the next 20 years.

Novell let the lead slip through there fingers to Trash Windows and the old IBM Network using Netbios and the NET USE commands.

It is going to be a long hard road back to the leader again. But if they play their cards right - price the product to make it cheap to migrate back - set up training course that are within reason (a few hundred dollars) easy installation and setup.. then they will come back.

There still is no better service for Applicaitons services than Novell - Microsoft is a marginally acceptable file services - and is a non-functional application services ... (just look at how much trouble it is to share the Office suite... pain) ..

I see Red in the future of companies - not pure red as at one time - but coming back. The Old SAA was one of the best Host connection emulators on the market.. If you configured it correctly..

I am an old Red CNE/SAA services person ... and loved every minute of that environment...

JohnS - at one time in history I would of agreed with you 100% of why MS is the market leader - it was good enough - at one time it was free. The old bate and catch - system of selling product.

But now MS has gone the way of the IBM 1,000 pound grilla - only MS is the 100,000 pound elephate that is sitting on the back of business and sucking money .

This killed the grilla and knock it down to a smaller monkey - Lets take what they are doing with Office - you can purchase you upgrade pack for 3 years at $Y cost - but they aren't planning on releasing anything for 3+ years if they hit their target dates... so why spend the dollars..

Their greed will knock them down to a baby elephate - if they aren't careful - I see the day went Linux/Novell kicks in (which is slowly happening today) - and open source runs the world for a few years...

Jim,

I understand you are upset with Oz's posts. But to rant on and on about Canada, your country's best friend and biggest economic partner, is xenophobic.

Canada is hardly a socialist paradise. The Socialist party (New Democratic Party) has never won a national election(and won't win the current election either).

Canada has a similar welfare policy to the US.

Our healthcare is provided by doctors who bill the government, not an insurance company - and we as citizens have more choice with our own doctors than those in the US with HMOs.

If anything the trend has been to move away from government ownership - Air Canada and Petro Canada were sold years ago to private investors.

You get so angry when someone challenges your views - do you actually believe in free speech?

James

Gotta disagree with you there JimMH, NetWare was never a good applications server. It excells at the basic file and print services.

The problem with NetWare as an application platform was the fact that it was always very difficult to develop NLMs for the OS. Novell did a horrible job of creating a suite of developer apps to properly support the creation of NLMs.

If there's one thing Microsoft did a good job of, it was creating an applications platform in Windows. You can do just about anything with a Windows server, and get an application to do it with from people other than Microsoft.

You can count on one hand the number of database vendors that USED to support NetWare and on one finger the number that support it today. (Im thinking Oracle is done with NetWare and all you can get is MySQL). As far as a Web Server, you can get an outdated version of NetScape server or your can run Apache. But if you're gonna run Apache, you might as well run it on Linux because it scales better on Linux.

Nope... Directory Services and File And Print... that's where Novell always ruled.

Microsoft seems to be very aware that their inability to ship products is starting to conflict with the licensing system they've set up. I think that's why you're hearing so much about interim releases of Windows XP and Windows Server 2003 before they ship Longhorn in 2006.. or 07... or 08.

If one thing does do them in, I agree it will be a level of arrogance or just getting too big. But, they've been able to turn the ship before.

As for Open Source Ruling, Im not so sure about that. Without the profit motive, I dont see the movement succeeding in a long term, especially if they do get lucky in bringing down their main motiviation, which is Beating Microsoft.

Yes Jim, one day we will once again see the N as player in North America again.

One reason I see a LOT of clients using MS boxes is simply that is what their IT staff recommended when they built their network. I have asked many client why they chose MS and it wasn't their choice perse, but that of the staff.

Now MCSE's used to be few and far between, nowdays there are more MCSE's than cab drivers ion the world, everyone thoght it was the thing to do, 'the most popular cert' (what about an inundated market?).

So with all these MCSE's runnig around to new and existnig businesses that were JUST starting to get networked and recommending they but MS productsm who is the boss to argue? He as hired a professional that knows what is best and safest for his business, plus he probably had Windoze at home, so why not?

Ms had it's marketing well timed, MCSE training was cheap and found everywhere, and MANY (not all) MCSE's were just guys who would cheat through school to launch a new career and jump on the IT bandwagon. Now who are they to actually voice a fair evaluation of the best NOS for the company? They are just MS pawns, being used to spread the word. Everyone agress Micosoft sucks, even if thay can get it to work, I don't think there are many techs EVEN MCSE's that think Microsoft is the best NOS, for security, stability, setup time and management costs, reliability, uptime or anything that makes a NOS useful, they just know how to make it work.

Now as for repeat business due to flawed product, I agree, MCSE's are always busy, I work like the Maytag man. I am also under an annual fixed contract will billable time not included ( I get a salary to manage networks for a couple of clients, but my time is still billable for most things they need).

I also make mroe money in less time, therefore need to work less hours.

Now as for what would I rather have, four boxes that stay running or four that I am constantly called back for, well I would choose the former. If i can put in a three hour day and head out in teh kayak for the rest of the day, I am happy. If I am logging into one domain then the next all day to repair it, I wil soon find a better solution.

So when I was looking for training I considered the following, do I want to work 8 hours at $80.00 hour or 4 at $150.00? I decided to work less for more even if at the end of the day I coulda pulled in another $40 or so. I have residual income from the music industry so that pays the bills, IT just keeps me busy, but not too busy thank god.

Novell isn't going anywhere though, they were one of the first, one of the best and had slumped, they aren't spending time and money building video games, but will ALWAYS make a better NOS. With the aquisition of Ximian Networks, Novell is once again seeing red and hammering the market effectively.

You speak volumes Jim, nobody needs to reiterate how dumb you'd be to reelect Bush, that wuold probably be on a global scale too, not just Canadian, show me a country that agrees with GWB.

You spend a LOT of time stating I am a Commie, noe it is Socialist. Can you make up your mind? I haven't picked a side as Canadian politics doesn't dominate our lives here, your clarification would help.

NOTE: Medical is NOT free in Canada
Welfare is NOT easy to get in Canada, in fact it gets reduced and the qualifications more stringent each year, we DO try to help those in need though and if it takes taxes to do that then that's fine, at least they aren't being spent to buy gasoline to keep the middle east citizens from hating us. My taxes will be the same no matter how they are spent, they just shift the funding from one hand to the other. One side suffers while the other prospers, just like the US.

Clinton has nothing to do with this, no I haven't read his book, nor do I desire to. If you think that all the dirt dug up on Clinton was a horror show, just wait til GWB is ousted.

And what'[s all this about how the CIA has funded terrorism, GWB has signed the document stating that NO middle Eastern men were to be held by the FBI and MUST be released when they had a suspected second bomber in Oklahoma? How there is no possible way that the truck parked in front could have done all that damage unless there were secondary explosives INSIDE the building, yet when engineers PROVED the building would not collaspe that way from the said bomb, the building was removed completely and rubble was disposed of in a secured dump.

There is SO much controversy surrounding American politics, there is so much controversy surrounding US political corruption, how can you not even so much as second guess it? Or seek out answers?

The Oklahoma city bombing, there were 18 different street side cameras that captured everything on tape as McVae parked the Ryder. There was supposedly a second person, later captured at the airport by FBI and ordered released by GWB himself without further investigation, but these tapes were sealed and undisclosed for some reason. If teh Administration was telling the truth that Timothy was the only occupant of the truck, then that's all the cameras would have shown, nothing but Timothy and te Ryder truck, yet for SOME reason they were sealed and inadmissable in court?!?

It's not JUST GWB, it's the whole scam, something smells fishy, I know there are some pretty extreme allegations and these can be seen as biased reports, which in many cases they are. No more biased than that coming from the Administration though.

What pisses me off, is not GWB, not yourself, not anyone really, just that you will all defend someone in a political position (of all places to try and have credibility)without question. You will discount ALL allegations agaisnt that person without question and anyone who doesn't also just follow patriotically or with blinders on, is simply a Commie, socialist, outsider, and all the other names you have referred to myself and Canada as. Hey Canada has problems, just as ANY country has, we know it and admit it though, we don't pretend it is perfect.

OK, so I am a Commie living in a Socialist Country run by a Conservative Liberal government, BUT, being from England, and living in Canada I will say that America has not yet produced a single beer that can actually carry the flame.

American beer should be sold to minors and real beer tro adults, it is not consistent, has no body, has no texture or flavour and is just piss in a can.

Now most Americans who have tried European beers, even those brewed here as imports (Heineken, Stella Artois, Guinness, Boddingtons (just a few of the more common names)will agree that Americans can't brew beer. You can bomb countries, you can send thousands of soldiers to kick ass with the most expensive weapons but you CAN'T BREW BEER!

Give it up and just import it all and do yourselves a favour.

I made negative comments about Bush, to which you stated you should inform the RCMP and Interpol about threats to your leader.

Why would that be effective unless you were asked to report such comments in the first place?

Again, nobody is defending child pornography. The issue is with the government compelling the citizenry to spy on others and report their findings or to suffer the same sanctions.

You're an IT pro, you know how stupid users are... they install spyware stupidly. Click on links in email. Enter a URL wrong in a brower window. Click the wrong links.

Look in any organization and Im sure you're gonna find kiddie porn or some such nastiness on corporate computers. Does that mean that it's full of pedophiles? No.. it just means that pornographers are very cunning in pushing their wares.

Turn an IT pro into a mandatory reporter and what you get is yourself having to turn in the gray-haired little old lady receptionist as a pedophile to the state just because she miss clicked on a link and a picture went into her cache.

Or worse, you get IT people who are not legally trained having to figure out for themselves what's porn and what isn't and turning in innocent people to the government.

The real question is, how do you track what users are doing? And how best to educate them to prevent that from happening...

That sort of thing is already happening. The RIAA is already going after corporations that may have MP3s and other things on corporate networks as a result of user downloads.

And there's a bill pending in the Senate that will allow the Federal government to civilly persecute individuals for downloading MP3s. For which the RIAA can go behind them and sue the users AGAIN. In this case, using the Government to do the RIAA's work of finding MP3 downloaders.

It becomes a situation where the IT professional is more and more put in the position of heavily policing the network. What's an IT pro to do?

And what's the best way to get it done?

Oz brings up a decent point here...

I mentioned his comment about MCSE's being more prevelant than cab drivers to our Editor In Chief of Premium Products, Erik Eckel who is also an MCSE which drew a hearty "TPTH..." in reply.

But both Erik (offline) and Oz here beg the question about whether there still is value in certification? Back in the day when Novell ruled the Earth, there were plenty of Paper CNEs that were pumped out by schools that effectively diluted the CNE certifcation. That was completely crushed by the MCSE certification deluge that followed.

Now with everyone and his cousin certified in something, is there any real value to a certification? Or at least keeping a certification current or pursuing new ones?

Personally, I never chased the certification. I already have a Bachelors in Information Systems with 15+ years experience in IT. I always thought that was more important than donating money to Microsoft and Novell for a piece of paper. What do you think?

Well Tom, you sure had your little paddy, feel good?

Ok, well who here is saying the US is the only country that needs to be more aware of the environment? I have a 4X4 with a hefty Rancho lift and a 351 gas guzzler. I also LOVE meat, steakand potatoes all the way. I despise Euro buggies but that all has nothing to do with rpesevring wildlife and not killing seals. You are stereotyping others in the exact same way that YOU feel they are stereoty[ing you.

I don't dislike Americans, I have said MANY times, I have worked in America, hired employees in America, ran a business in America and sell thousands of CD's in American stores. So no, it's not America I dislike, but if it make you feel better, I can talk about buring your flag too, I mean it's only a friggin' flag, colors on silk or polyester.

GWB caused more world strife than anyone in my lifetime has, he is the hitler of my lifetime, so far. He has lied to deceived and harmed more Americans than anyone I have ever seen in my life.

Now if I was an American myself, I would be livid that one man can place my country in harms way, cause the rest of the world to hate my country and spit upon strategic alliances only to turn and ask for their help a year later, all because it works for him at that monent.

To top all this off, the Harvard grad that has grown up surrounded by milti-millionaires and fed with a silver spoon, then has the audacity to say he is one of the people, for the people. WHAT A FARCE!!!
I would see everyone on the block getting out the pitchforks and torches to go and lynch the guy.

In the USA, he has such devoted followers that he is actually SUPPORTED through all this megalomania. Haven't you guys learned yet, that ALL politicians in ALL countries just plain SUCK. They are liars and con men who namaged to squirm their way into controlling positions and soon after they are replaced all the REAKL facts are aired and the person is found to be a liar, a cheat and an idiot. Yet you guys put your pride in your president, no other country's still actually believe that politicians are in it for the people, with all the scandal surrounding US politics, how can you not all see this too? Why do you CARE about your politicians or even feel somewhat responsible for what they doo in office? They lied to get there, do you actuallly think they are going to do what they proposed to?

Never have, never will, and yet you all retain hope that the next one will. It's futile, give up and live your lives already, F-K the President, let him sit in his office and do paperwork all day and don't play to the spotlight. They thrive on public appreciateion and will do whatever it takes, including BS'ing you to stay in it.

Once the spotlight is just a candle to read by, they settle down and run the country.

if someone like Saddam actually DID pose a threat to someone, the Allied forces would create a combined effort to see no harm is inflicted upon another. NO need to single handedly play Lone Ranger and place your country and it's citizens in harms way.

STOP GIVING THE STUPID G-MEN SO MUCH CREDIT! THEY ARE PUBIC SERVANTS NOT GODS.

PUBIC servants (as fitting as it may be) should have read PUBLIC servants.

I actually spent two years as a quality assurance manager for the CRTC with no cert.
I then took on three different contract jobs, building and designing databases and sales tools, training tools etc. with no cert.
I then took on a full time (was pushed into a full time)position as a Novell Net admin for a telephone company. They ended up paying for my Novell certs after a year or so but I cetainly didn't need them to find work, word of mouth and experience were worth far more than a cert for me.
I used to be in sales management positions, marketing and advertising, sales trainer etc. Again with no formal training just on the job ability and good referrals, it got to the point that I didn't look for work, I was just offered it.

I currently operate a promotion/management company in the music industry, I have built my contacts and moved bands from North America into the European and Asian markets very successfully with no formal training or certifications.

The only formal school I attended was six years studying for my automotive journeyman's licence and air care certs. I didn't even graduate high school, I was offered a full time sales job in grade 11.

So I am not trying to blow my own horn here, we all have different vehicles to get through life our own way, but in my case, certifications have done nothing to help me find employment (outside automotive but that's people's lives in your hands not computers).

It is our duty as citizens and for the better of mankind to notice and take action when crimes upon humanity are being acted out.
You have no problem at all snooping around Iraq and expecting your citizens to act sipposedly for the benefit of mankind. you then decide they need a democratic system and enforce it by sending thousands of your citizens to kill them and them and attempt to rebuild their country into one that meets your standards of freedom and democracy.

Is it too much to expect an average citizen to speak up when crimes are committed? Nobody's asking you to arrest or sentence anyone. Nopbody is asking you to place yourself in harms way, just to say something when you suspect someone is up to criminal activity in your own neighbourhood that may effect the people in your neighbourhood.

The world has oo many people already that turm a blind eye or don't get involved and let other citizens suffer or perish because of it.

Why must out governments be held responsible for everything we do? We need to me more active in reporting misuse and abuse of our given freedoms and privaledges that our ancestors fought for.

See what happens when it controls and is in your head every minute - Public become Pubic - Bush - no the other bush..

Ha -

Lets see I was always told if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck - Then it's a Duck...

Lets see - you pay taxes to the Government which covers a government run Healthcare system, (Walks like one), Doctors are paid by the government (Quacks like one) and has long waiting lines for services (looks like one) - even thou like my uncle in England pays extra for a private rider.. Lets see - It walks like one - quacks like one and looks like one... Hum What do you call a government run Healthcare system - Isn't that a socialist Healthcare system? Just call me a stupid American... But its what they call it in England...

Point two - What about the story from Russian Intell that Saddam was planning on attacking America after 9/11 - hum But was buried by american media? - Interesting - WMD being found - Ties to Terrorist groups with the Saddam government - Hum Call me a stupid American - But again - It WALKS LIKE A DUCK, IT QUACKS LIKE A DUCK AND LOOKS LIKE A DUCK - ITS A F'en DUCK.

So - Just call us stupid Americans - But Iraq was a terrorist nation - along with Afghanastan - and to kill the cancer - you have to take strong measures...

And to compare Bush to Hilter - god you need Real Mental Help ... what an Arus you are ..

I will give you that one - American Beers are like coloured water - I enjoyed many a fine pint over the pond - I esp like the "Youngs Special" at the pub...

Had good taste - good body - great flavor -

The Micro Brew houses in the US are starting to produce some higher quality beers - and we are starting to enjoy them - unless you are out to get Pissed ... then the young ones do their busch or miller thing..

Socialised medicine the way I would describe it would be doctors who work for the government.

In Canada, doctors work for themselves if they like, or work for hospitals, which may get government funding but are privately run. We have Catholic Hospitals, Salvation Army Hospitals, all things you wouldn't find in true socialism.

As for Bush and Hitler - who said that - was it every single Canadian, or do you like to ascribe what one individual said to 30 million people - can you say stereotyping sure you can.

So what if Canada has chosen to do some things differently than the US, as a sovereign, independant country, thats our right. Why you chose to hate Canada is beyond me. You take what some Canadians say that you dislike as the majority viewpoint. By the same token, I sure don't take your viewpoint as the majority view in America, and I thank god for it.

James

....but for those of us that have certifications binding by a code of ethics, there are some things we already are watching for - not bound by the governmental law, but by the certifications we hold. Awhile ago, it used to be if you didn't report pirated software within your organization and they were discovered by other means, you could lose your M$ cert if you were employing that pirated software within your job. And the ISC2 code of ethics states "Associating or appearing to associate with criminals or criminal behavior" is in violation - which I would take to mean working with a child pornographer would be a violation. Maybe the difference is one is mandated by the government and the other is a choice when you get the certifications?

See what happens - when someone is talks down you country - Like Oz does all the time about the USA. You get tired of getting sand kicked in your face - and someone professes to like america but is always land blasting it and our elected leaders. The hair on our back stands up and you stand up and say shut the F'Up - as any patriot of their nation should..

You did it - not in those terms but got a little hot - just from a few posts... trace back how many thousands of Posts Amercians have put up from Oz... and his every post negative about Americans and his hatred of our leaders (they are ours we elected them - it what we felt was best for us - not what the world thinks is best for us).

Oz - now says Canada has problems - first time I have ever seen that kind of a post from him - It is always sunny and warm in B.C. Canada.

So - when the shoes on the other foot - Canadians get honked off pretty quick don't they.. aint fun on the receiving side..

I had to post to my own post because of the silly way this forum is setup (which I always thought was dumb).

Hmmm...*hands you a bottle of ice water and a towel* you done your tantrum mate? ;)

Seriously though as much as it pains me *blood spurts out my eye sockets* I must say you are right on some things. Hey I know politicians are gods of righteousness when only compared to lawyers, I know they are full of it. Of course I also know its not a US trait for US only politicians and that was the basis of my first post - but then I know I'm horrible at explaining myself, perhaps it was my bad.

All politians are liars in my book...I don't care what language they speak, what skin tone they have or what flag they salute.

On the flag thing...yep I agree again its just a flag.

Steak and potatoes -- I can't get enough...pass the A-1 (its how steak is done you know?).

To me, it SOUNDED like slamming on America -- while I'm open-minded and try to see everyone's point...after you hear the same rant for the 18th billionth time, it does get to the point of a bit annoying. Everyone does it.

I may be a little blind , since I am American, to SOME of the reasons why we are hated...but not to all...I do understand the wasteful use of resources, the "oh the US is playing world cops again" thing, and the like.

I just wish people would be more understanding in some things like...if you are going to hate US politics - don't kill US citizens over it (either verbally or literally) -- we can vote but we don't control what they do. After they are in, as citizens we can do little (yeah right protest? HAHAHAHAH Besides I can't spend time doing that when I need to work to support myself -- unless someone wants to pay my bills and buy me food.)

Oz! Good one man, nothing personal I hope...*lifts up a frosty one to you*

later

THAT ALSO GOES FOR THE W**KERS RUNNING THE SHOW HERE IN THE UK TOO

This brings up a decent point. What's ethically proper versus what's legally mandated. Being bound by a code of ethics to report such problems to superiors or legal authorities is a much different matter than being legal mandated to do so. That's for two reasons.

First... Most of things that an IT Professoinal encounter that would questionable could be severe enough, if true, to cause damage to not only the organization but also the accused. But at the same time, there is the whole Innocent Until Proven Guilty thing. By being forced to escalate directly to the police, it puts the accused in a whole different level and causes more potential problems if the accused is actually innocent than if you just follow internal ethical rules.

Second, there's the whole Libertarian aspect to mandating citizen reporting on each other, but there's no point in going there...

Are codes of ethics strong enough? And what the proper thing to do internally in an organization if questionable behavior is supsected? Whether is pornography, piracy, or whatever...

Of course the whole problem is eliminated if the IT department just locks down workstations to begin with. Blocking Web sites... Implementing Software Restriction Policies... Tracking activity and letting users know they're being tracked...

A user cant cause problems if they cant do anything than just load the applications they're supposed to.

Of course that takes an investment in time, effort and software. I never had much time to that. Is it worth the effort? And what's the best way to prevent users from doing things they shouldn't anyway?

You know as well as I do, the only reason I even BEGAN to slam your president is because he made YOUR business everyone else's business.

Now if you actually vote for some othyer fool in the fall (giving that ALL politicians are complete buffoons)and he keeps his nose out of MY business, the way our own PM does, then I couldn't care less who you vote for. You can all just deal with the internal politics of your nation without outside comments.

When your president decides his business is MY business, then it is completely within my God given rights to voice my opinion. If he did something I liked, I would praise him for it, if he does something that strokes me and the rest of the world's population the wrong way, how can you expect to hear anything but protest. Remember democracy?

As for Canada's government, I hate to say you probably know less than I do about our government, and that isn't much. Not too many citizens pay attention to our politicians, they are just pencil pushers trying to make their four years or so worthwhile.

I mean , Cretien was for the most part, a tool. On the other hand, he was balancing our budget and did more good for Canada in the long run than bad. I have NEVER at any time said that Canadian politics is better than the US, or England, or anywhere for that matter. All governments have strengths and weaknesses, the difference is that they know how to crap in their own backyard.

If you want your president (not your country, which you always seem to equate your president to) to beleft out of the spot light and not be opened up to global attack, elect on ethat keeps his business America's business. In this case it is EVERYONE's business, because the person you elected made it that way, think twice next time.

I don't dislike America, have never said I did. I have said quite often that Canada is not BETTER per se, but at least we keep our politics to ourselves, otherwise you would actually know what you are talking about when it comes to Canadian politics. NO country is actually BETTER than another, they all have strengths and weaknesses in the way they are run.

We also have different people and ways of resolving issues, that's why everyone gets pissed when the US Administration sees ONE solution to all problems, WAR and it better NEVER be on your own soil, in fact you are SO scared of war, you go to war prematurely just to STOP being at war, which didn't work so well this time did it?

There is only ONE nation on the planet that seeks such measures, the USA. There is only one country on our planet that insists everyne else should go to war, the USA.
There is only one nation's people who feel that this is a viable solution to man's problems, the USA.

So if people that you force into these situations don't appreciate it and voice it (free speech) then you get all pissed and start hammering their country for doing absolutely nothing.

To top all this off, we STILL fight beside you, we are STILL one of the first to join America in these situations. Unlike when Canada was at war and it took another couple of years for America to join in and that was only after you had been attacked yourselves.

So before you go claiming righteous country, just look at how you treat other country's and stop feeling sorry for yourself all the time and wondering why people are pissed off. You made it that way, not me.

There's no possible way in hell you could argue that point. I don't think you could find two sides that opposed that fact.

As for gettin gpissed, you mean people can actually get pissed on American beer? I know I piss a lot, but i don't think I've ever managed to get a good buzz on US suds. Well, there's the breakers just across the border but they serve Canadian and British beers (Canadian money at par). Wooohoo! You can get a case of Imported Canadian off-sales in the US for less than a 6-pack in Canada. I'll give you that one!

You can but you piss alote when you get pissed on the american water -

I couldn't figure that out either about Canada - Get Molsons over here but its export only - you cross the boarder and boy is it better than the export stuff we get.. They don't server the export in Canada.

I guess its one of those American things we do everything better - even make nastier beers - not better...It's that government that says 6.2 is the highest level beer can be - Canadian and british range from 12 to 24% by volume - much better taste ...

Although many of us claim to be ethical and want to do the right thing, there is such thing as grassing-up, ratting people out, snitching, etc.
and this will deter many from speaking up.

No you shouldn't HAVE to be FORCED to inform the authorities, but it seems that not everyone will report a crime. Even those that are VICTIMS of a crime will not speak out in many cases, to have an innocent bystander get involved is another issue.

In an ideal world, we would all be able to govern our own actions, but unfortunately SOME people don't care and others suffer because of it. The whole one bad apple thing.

So until we can actually get our citizens to stop ignoring issues and to actually take a stand and become involved, we will need to PUSH people to act accordingly.

What I don't understand; if you are the type of person who actually DOES report these actions, why would it matter if you were told you had to?

Ok everyone is paranoid about the government taking this to an extreme level but you have all supported the US becoming a police state over the past few years, it's all or nothing guys, not pick and choose.
The only people who should be concerned about new criminal laws are criminals.

The only people who should be concerened about being forced to take action are those who don't take action.

As for everything else being policed too, lets look at these issues one at a time instead of placing a blanket attitude to it.

You must also remember, YOU voted for your government, there's more to a good leader than just the ability to destrot another country.

Perhaps that's why I always say there is such a difference in our political views, we elect a leader based on issues such as this. REAL issues that effect us in our daily lives. The US seems to empower their president based on his military track record and might, then just bitch and whine about civil liberties and Constitutional rights when they are stepped on.

Perhaps the focus of your vote should be turned toward what he/she is going to do that actually effects your daily lives, within your own country.

12 -25%??

Not quite, our beer averages 5.6-6%. Alcohol doesn't flavour beer, nor does it make a good beer. In fact the higher alcohol beers are usualy the worst.

We are a few points up on you guys, some beers here hit the 7% mark, but as an average only a few percent here and there.

I agree that microbreweries, trendy here in the 90's, were great but most ended up being gobbled up by the big brewers and consistency is lost.

I think the main difference comes from additives, suagars, caramel (nasty stuff!), etc. This diminishes the true flavour and natural body of the brew. When a company gets too big, production and quality assurance bring more additives to the beer to ensure it is consistent and production is increased, but quality suffers.

That's why the big brwers in Canada, Molsons, Labatts are producing th eworst piss on Canadian shelves. The mirobrews (we get those Canadaian Spring water beers) are awesome, until they are swept up by large corporations again.

Perhaps this is the root of my recent turn on capitalism, the big players are ruining our beer!

You see everything SO literally that it REALLY explains how and why you take the political stand you do.

It is ONLY common sense and logic that would dictate HOW you react when you witness an accident. If I could see that the people in the accident needed help that I couldn't provide myself, I would use my cell phne to call for help, or drive to a payphone to make the call.

No it is NOT alright to administer first aid, should th eperson have a kneck or back injury and you create mor edamage by moving the person, YOU COULD be sued for negligence by their insurer, although it RARELY happens.

It is not an ENFORCED law either, many just drive by and don't get chased down by a team of helicopters and cop cars. It does make people feel that they SHOULD help though.

A few weeks ago, down the highway, there was a family in a pickup that had an accident and the truck burst into flames. Two men driving by stopped and after suffering second degree burns themselves, had pulled a father, Wife, 11 year old son AND a 6 month old baby from the wreckage. Not because they had to, but because they knew they should. If people didn't feel oligated to help, these people would certainly have died.

I am certidied in industrial first aid and will always stop and help where I can, MANY won't though.

But to get back on topic here, we are NOT discussing what to fo when a life threatening accident is seen, this is about finding a pedophile while doing you daily duty.

Now if you can't say that after pounding the living hell out of the guy, you wouldn't turn him in, then I suppose you truly are showing your true colors and how you would completely ignore a potential threat to your fellowman, but support war due to a POTENTIAL threat to our country. You put your country ahead of your neighbours, nice one.

Lets see you said - "Well in Canada (BC anyway) it is illegal to witness an accident and not stop or call the police. "

So now it's optional - and you land blast your friend with about not stopping... Who's Blind and whos just to stupid to remember their prevous post. Get you head out your Arus -

You Initial statement it is Illegal to not stop or call the police ... no all of a sudden it is optional - I see the way those laws are - only enforced when it fits the need - otherwise don't do them -

OK - Well - Call me silly - but thats BS in BC - either there is a law you have to stop - or not - so which one is it...

Coors has got to have the best commercials especially during the NFL season....allow me to be a slobbering 30-something male for a moment..but you have got to love those "twins" *eyes glaze over as if seeing beyond eternity*...oh sorry....um

yeah Beer...good stuff..*ahem*...;)

(seriously though...I like Yuengling and I must admit I think Miller makes the best lite beer at least in this part of the world.)

It is not the rule of the State to Socially engineer the masses to the way it thinks they should think - that was called fascism (Nazi Germany - Remember that). Where the government - indorctraned the children in the Hilter Youth.

That worked pretty good didn't it - what a little over 6.5 million died in the camps. Mentally challenged, Jews, Eastern Europeans, Peace protesters, politicans - or anyone that didn't follow the doctrine of the state.

Interesting that you profess that because man can not follow simple rules - of reporting on someone that the "State" should establish laws that do. Then you call the USA a Police State - I don't know any states in the US that has a Law like BC to were you have to stop or call the police if you witness an accident. You all sound more police state than we do.

Then you go off on some wild attack of our political system - stay on the subject (oh thats right you hate america so back you can taste it).

If you want a police state stay in BC - where they write those nice little socialism laws you want everyone to live by... so then if that was the case you name would already be at RCMP for hate speach about America and President Bush... Oh thats right America has that little thing people don't like - Freedom of Speech.. hum - I guess one day we should get ride of that ...

They need a new forum software - this one suck ... post belongs above..

It is not the roll of the State to Socially engineer the masses to the way it thinks they should think - that was called fascism (Nazi Germany - Remember that). Where the government began with the indorctranation of the children in the Hilter Youth.

That worked pretty good didn't it - what a little over 6.5 million died in the camps (good soical engineering). Mentally challenged, Jews, Eastern Europeans, Peace protesters, politicans - or anyone that didn't follow the doctrine of the state.

Interesting that you profess the same type of roll for the state, just because man can not follow simple rules of common sense of reporting on someone. So we will have the "State" make a law that will make people do it - isn't that social engineering?

Then you call the USA a Police State - I don't know any states in the US that has a Law like BC to were you have to stop or call the police if you witness an accident. Canada or at least BC sounds more of a police state than we do. (The US does have some social engineering laws and the liberals contiune to try and get more past but they have been failing).

Then you go off on some wild attack of our political system - stay on the subject (oh thats right you hate america so back you can taste it).

If you want a police state stay in BC - where they write those nice little social engineering laws you want everyone to live by.

You aren't making sense again - but according to you I am blinded and a fool ... I think I see things pretty black and white -

I don't appologize for being an American - I am proud that I am an American - Free thinking - Free Markets - Free Nation - not bound by religon or doctrine as many other countries are in the word.

I am free to travel were I wish - to purchase and earn what I can - To live life as it was intendant to be -

To Climb the ladder of success as far as I wish -

To aid others in this world -

You want to see some pain - the US will stop sending money, food, aid, mendical and phara to the rest of the world for a reduced price. We will permit the rest of the nations pain the going rate for the medical needs, food, drugs and other products.

Hey - We can do the same thing - we don't have to be the Worlds Police force - nor do we need to be the Worlds wallet or food bank... or hospital and drug store..

But of course, you need to define your policies and then look for a tool as opposed to the other way around.

My current employer uses Websense, there are others as well, which will allow you to track usage, usage patterns, block sites both from a subcribed list or individually or both.

The tools only provide data - the enforcement mechanism is a different story. You can enforce not visiting bad sites by blocking them, but there comes a point where abuse can be over use. For example, many companies wouldn't mind if their employees spent 5 or 10 minutes periodically to do online banking. They would mind if the employee spent hours a day online with a stock ticker going and conducting trading all day.

The best way to enforce is to use HR. IT people should not be responsible for notifying users or managers of issues - thats an HR thing. IT should provide HR with Data, and let HR enforce.

James