TECH'S KNOW IT ALL

That still leaves 1) & 2), since your reply is still unresponsive, i.e. aloof or indifferent to the subject matter.

Blame Sigmund or Erikson, it wasn't my theory, it's very basic psyche 101.

I believe I quoted the reply I was commenting on. Was that not yours?

And seeing as I did respond and THEN responded a second time and included the quotation to which I was referring to I think that would pretty much rule out number 2.

Furthermore:

[b]Opinion Definition: [/b]
-[n] the reason for a court's judgment (as opposed to the decision itself)

[i]-[n] a vague idea in which some confidence is placed; "his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying"[/i]

-[n] a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty; "my opinion differs from yours"; "what are your thoughts on Haiti?"

[i]-[n] a belief or sentiment shared by most people; the voice of the people; "he asked for a poll of public opinion"[/i]

-[n] the legal document stating the reasons for a judicial decision; "opinions are usually written by a single judge"

-[n] a message expressing a belief about something; "his opinions appeared frequently on the editorial page"

Now I know that you are all of a sudden referring to speaking of sentiment as opposed to opinions, yet you will notice that they are in fact defined in the English language as one and the same.

You also implied that opinions are based solely on fact, which is contrary to ANY definition I have EVER heard, including the definition shown here, that clearly states "a VAGUE IDEA on which some confidence is placed." That most definitly does not refer to fact in any meaning of the word.

Now I have noticed you enjoy trying to over analyze each post you respond to, should you wish to drag out the most irrelevant segues, I'll let you figure it out form here if it still isn't too clear.

Because there is a difference between a reply and a response.

Because Chicken Little is irrelevant to the substance of the post.

Because a nonsubstantive reply does not a response make.

Let me get this straight.

You're saying that its some dead guy's fault that you don't know the difference between opinion & sentiment?

I was not referring to a specific individual but rather collective behaviors that are a average of the group. There are numerous studies that point to this behavior. In psychological terms it is called "complimentary schizmogensis".

The process is simple. The female ask in an unassuming innocuous way (because she has this need to be seen as a good person) for the male to do something. He declares independence and the female thinks he did not understand and asks again but a little more directly. Again the male declares independence and the female becomes more insistant. In the home it erupts into arguing but in the workplace a variety of other outcomes may result such one party departing, or one submitting only to quiet the other, an agrument may ensue, or the classic backstabbing game that we call office politics etc...

In IT it is not uncommon for males to declare territory and establish ego battles. Females when engaged in this rarely do well despite thier pride that they can hold their own. Females usually standoff and chuckle at the engaged males.

In your case it appears that you have solved the battle between the sexes by hiring an all female staff to do what? Perform a desk job. I find that interesting. Why can't we just get along?

What languages does your staff program in? My first guess is that you are doing mostly financial reporting and perhaps some web frontends and SQL queries.

How many engineering houses have female programmers using Int'l Math and Science Libraries (IMSL) and systems designed specifically for scientific computing? Maybe 1% to 2% if that.

Despite the mask we wear the sexes generally behave in specific ways. Each individual may vary in one direction or another but human behaviors are very much 'programmed'.

Our challenge in life is to basically reprogram ourselves. In Christianity it is call being 'born again' and is when a human becomes a new kind of character being. The Bible discusses the behaviors of men and women. For example, men desire externally beautiful women but must look to their inner beauty; Form vs Content. Women desire to control men in the church and home but must submit to male leadership in those places. In short, God created us opposite of the way we are to be in the end. It is the struggle of humanity and in the christian heaven there are no sexes or marriage.

This is not to reduce a woman in her talents or abilities nor to elevate a male. In God eyes the sexes are spiritually equal but given different tasks and placement.

One needs to ask a few questions honestly. What happened to the fierce Israeli Female Fighter Pilots of the 80's? Why are there very few women who are ordanance handlers in the military? How come women profess to marry for love but when in powerful positions continue to marry more powerful men and not so much for the love of some less powerful male? How come the major corporations having female CEO's appear to perform lower and fail at a higher rates?

There are at least three answers to these questions. One is chauvenistic response. The other is a feminist response. And the third is the truth. Oh there is a fourth response and that is to attack me for making you think.

i know it all .. lol.. well.. no i dont.. if a we all knew it all.. we would not have great sigts like this ;)

then why bother posting in the first place?

First of all, you are completely confused as to what you are reading again, you are displaying very poor comprehension abiities and getting sentences and comments mixed up in your head.

I never, at ANY time, said NOR implied in the least that either Simund Freud and Erik Erikson said anything at all about opinion OR sentiment. You simply didn't get it when I actually copied and pasted the dictionary word for word.

You can look them up yourself and not be so lazy as to simply dismiss a fact without research or proof to substantiate your comments.

My DEFINITION was neither opinion nor sentiment, it's the English language, look it up!

Both Freud and Erikson were both landmark psychiatists that opened many doors towards today's understanding of the human psyche. Though not all opnions are followed religiously in todays world, thier foundation theories, whether 'id', 'super ego'or what have you, remain current philosophies behind mankind's actions.

For you to dismiss modern psychology due to it's origins and foundations is just plain ignorant. That's like saying the people who thought the world was round when all others thought it flat had irrelevant theories because they are dead.

Not only are you constantly wrong, and you prove it with every word, you have failed to read nor comprehend what you MAY have actually read. Then you go and offer ridiculous and unqualified comments without a clue as to what was said or what you are saying yourself, you are being just plain ilogical (to be nice).

You have a swell day, there's better things here than trying to hold discussions with you. It takes three posts to explain one comment to you as you just don't get it. Either that or you just have nothing better to do than waste your time and the time of others with your complete garbage.

YOu have proven your complete inabiity to grasp the simplest of concepts, you're definitely not worth the time.

Try going back and rereading the posts again, perhaps it will come to you one day. It's black and white for most.

Basically I feel the same as what was said before me. Anyone can be/sound/feel/act or portrait nearly anything on a Internet forum that requires nothing but a free account and email address to have access too.

I do feel what you are trying to say by creating this topic, I'm glad you posted it -- I thought for a little while I was the only one who had those thoughts.

Its like everyone wants to just dig or get the one up on everyone else. Believe it or not this forum isn't that bad at all with that though..its actually one of the more "tame" forums I participate in. The gamer forums are brutal, everyone is a smartarse for every 1 thing that someone says in even the slighest positive light as a response, you get 10 replies back that is pure smartarse remarks and then another 20 that are just total negativity. Its like downing someone's topic/post/comments is what is "cool" these days.

Of course a lot of the folks on those boards aren't even 21 years old, so I take that into consideration too.

Anyway my final thought is I've no problem with folks adding to or even correcting other people -- its two things to consider though or else the person correcting looks like arse:

1) If you are going to correct someone (especially with technical information) make sure your information is itself correct OR at the very least, if offering opinion on a similar experience don't state it as fact but quantify it as "well in my experience this was the case....." or something similar.

2) Be cool about it, unless you are provoked or the previous post was someone trying to get a rise out of you...be cool.

later.

Just because men are more inclined to doing a "dirty" job (in general), it doesn't mean that women cannot do the same. I believe that I was misinterpreting your argument. In a trades school, the amount of men outnumber the women by a very, very large percentage. This is unfortunate, but perhaps gives merit to your argument.

I agree with you on the "politically correct" front. This is a very dangerous concept that has been explored by many great thinkers of the past. It is still an option though.

Perhaps, in the cases that you have mentioned, the particular woman was not actually the best person for the job, but simply a poor effort on the part of the board in promoting public opinion. This happens all the time. Maybe though, it was not the best company for the job.

Even with the proper election to power, how could they be taken seriously with such a view as that of your area. In my opinion, HP and Time Warner were on the landslide anyways.

A perfect example of this is our former Prime Minister, Kim Campbell. She took over the Mulroney government for a short period of time in the months before the election. Although, she was apparently given the chance, she honestly didn't have time do or prove anything, or to repair the damage that had been done to public opinion. Not a fair trial, as the Conservative party was "on the landslide" so to speak. Now men who share your opinion say, "see... look what happens... we gave them a chance".

As far as stringing cable, we have a maintenance dept. I would not call them 'high tech' kind of guys.

And how long has it been since RPG was strictly a report generator? Since the mid 70's? We support our financial group as well warehouse management, shop floor control, inventory control, payroll, HR, scheduling, sales and marketing, shipping and transportation, and most of this resides on our AS/400, written in RPG.

And, why is it, that you can be condescending, yet you offer 'intellectual replies', but when I disagree with you, and I do, it is emotional?

The point I was making is that for everyone in the positive there is another in negative leading to an average of the group. The natural response to discussing these topics whether it is women, minorities, or even the WASP is those who immediately assume the defensive and seek to hide behind political correctness rather than openly discuss the real issues.

This has been a major obstacle in dealing with the Black community in the U.S. When Bill Cosby, a sucessful black actor, brought up real issues with his own race he was chatised and attacked in the media.

The United States Navy spent 30 years attempting affirmative action in Naval Aviation and the Nuclear Power communities. Not for lack of effort by the Navy but people in the Black community had little desire to hold certain positions and the Navy simply could not fill them with minority candidates. Similiar behaviors exist among other groups such as women.

I am not so much professing an opinion as I am reciting findings that some people prefer not to discuss.

As for political correctness, it is best used in close interpersonal relationalships or in leadership roles.

I do not think that there is a tendency in most males to 'setup' women for failure and then remark 'I told you so' in some self fulfilling prophecy.

It is regretful that you take the postings as condescending and I fail to see that in them.

What I do see is generic postings taken personally. When I observe "I am, ME, MY staff" language in your postings that is a very emotional plea.

There are several responses in which you attack with very 'feministic' language. For example, 'You really have that alpha male thing going, don't you?' The technique you are employing is called projection which is to place fault on the one exposing something uncomfortable to get the light off of yourself or what ever it is that you take personally.

feministic, chauvinistic..it's all a matter of perception. My only point is this, I have a wonderful team, they are all very accomplished, intelligent PEOPLE. It matters not a bit whether they have a penis or not.

was never the point nor was the condition of your team.

The point was why are women leaving IT. It was because of male ego battles.

I have worked in telecom for years, several of the compapnies I have worked with,including the local Telco, ALL have male AND female cable stringers. In fact the largest company out of them LOVES to hire small women with such skills as they are generally more flexible and take less time off due to stiff backs, hips etc.

If you would like, I can get you a list of cabling employees used by these companies so can can verify that they are hiring as many if not more female cablers than male.

Because god knows, we women HATE getting dirty. And what if we break a nail?? That's a reason to go home for the day. Which works out nice, because that gives us time to clean the house and cook dinner.

MOST of the participants are women that are VERY successful in theIT industry. THats why tech vibes events are so successful, all the IT guys go because they know that's where all the female geeks hang out. In fact the downtown Vancouver Tech core has a massive base of successful female ntrepreneurs who have all succeeded in the IT field.

We are not talking a select few successful women here at all, in fact the CEO of tech vibes is a woman who has made her mark in IT by leading some of the most successful IT teams in Vancouver and building some of the largest and most successful e-commerce portals around.

But let me guess, that doesn't count either.

So are you in fact saying there are a few niche industries in which males are the most dominant, in YOUR area? It certainly can't be seen as a blanket statement or industry knwodlege, as implied.

It is probably just companies pretending that women are as capable as men just to keep the women happy.

I am sure that they are only given the jobs where cable is laid on the freshly vaccumed carpet (they they actually vaccum themselves before starting the job, it's the inherent Molly Maid in women I think) and not actually run through walls, crawlspaces in ceilings and dirty, icky places that may have SPIDERS or something in them.

They are also only working 4 hour shifts at about $8.00/hr, that way they have time to pick up the kids and start dinner before taking the youngest to his piano lesson and the oldest to her choir recital. The low pay means that they will never get ideas of becoming independent to the men in their lives.

I was only kidding, women don't really work, it's just a ploy to make men look like they are acccepting women. How did YOU catch on though? You are just a woman after all, aren't you?

INteresting vibe on trades school.

I noticed that when I was at BCIT, the women in first and second year auto were few and far between BUT, the women in 5th year (advanced disgnostics and computer support sustems) outnumbered the men by a big margin.

Women in welding were few also, women in advanced welding, steel crafting trades were abundant.

Guys will get the four years and go and work for a living, the women seemed moreinclined to continue studies to make themselves more valued ad better paid in the workplace. They seem to have a greater interest in really getting into the finer details of specialized trades than to get grunt jobs.

Guys just want to earn a decent living, women seem to want to become the best at a spcialized or unique trade. They also ended up earning more than the guys though, in these specific areas.

I'd love a list of "cable running" flexible women, for all the wrong reasons of course.

On another note, I love running cables. Too many organizations leave it up to the Building Service/Maintenance Department. I love taking the opportunity to get away from the desk, run some cables, and put on the "don't talk to me" face.

a position taken, which is based on feelings, as opposed to facts, is a sentiment, not an opinion.

That people fail to adequately differentiate between the two yields a lack of RATIONAL discourse.

In the real, physical world, feelings do NOT trump facts.

will not advance your position.

Okay, you are saying, and have reiterated, that opinions are based on fact. This is 100% untrue in any form of the English language, get my point now?

Opinions are NOT neccessarily derived solely form fact nor a collection of facts.

READ THE FOLLOWING DEFINIION(s), ONCE AGAIN, AND SEE IF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THAT AN OPINION, JUST LIKE SENTIMENT, IS DERIVED FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OR INDIVIDUAL THOUGHT, NOT FACT!

OPINIONS ARE NOT BASED ON FACTS THEY MAY BE BUT THIS IS NOT WHAT CONSTITUES OPINION.

Definitions:
>The judgment or sentiment which the mind forms of persons or things; estimation. (note sentiment results in opinion)

>a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty

>a message expressing a belief about something; the expression of a belief that is held with confidence but [b]not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof[/b];

>a message expressing a belief about something

These definitions although collected from various online definitions are the same for each and every one of them.

SENTIMENT-

> a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty (gee where have I read THAT before? Oh yes, it's identical to the definition of opinion)

>an attitude toward something; regard; opinion (damn, there it is AGAIN!"opinion")!!

Now what I feel you MAY be working toward is that sentiment can be considered a heart felt OPINION of something. Which is definitly not where this all began.

Just to clea this up for you as you seem so easilty lost, you stated (not opined);
"Opinions matter, but ...
only when supported by facts."

So seeing as opinions are NOT required to be based on fact for them to be valid, how can you then surmise that opinions only matter when based on fact?

You are either;
A) very confused
B) clueless as to what you are stating, and very confused
C) trying to insist that you have a better understanding of the English language and it's definitions, as ptovided in the English Dictionary, and very confused.

You may as well be trying to push the point that the sky is purple and the sea is black, air is a solid, water is white ec. You have absolutely NO basis work with, you are simply wrong and there is no possible way you can be right.

Based on your theory, saying "up and down" would mean exactly the same thing as saying "dogs have four legs". You are simply trying to recreate the English language to suit your own agenda, but that isn't how the English language works, things are defined and have meaning.

You are WRONG,[b] opinions do not only count when based on fact.[/b] as proven in the English language ditionary.

You firmly stated: [i]Sentiment is reflective of feelings; opinion, of facts.[/i]

First of all, wrong. Opinions are clearly NOT based on facts. Secondly YES, sentiment CAN be a result of personal feelings or heartfelt concern, NEWS FLASH, SO CAN OPINIONS!!! Sentiment is just another word for an opinion shared with personal motviation but but it doesn't HAVE to be personally attached to be considered sentiment.

Go back to school or something, ask an old teacher, you have no point and yet are trying to make one, YOU HAVE NO POINT, GIVE UP, YOU CANNOT REWRITE A LANGUAGE TO SUIT YOUR POST!

What part of English don't you understand?

You really think I need help in understanding you are clueless? Who's trying to ADVANCE a position here? Where does one get to once advancing position? In case you forgot, this is an internet discussion forum.

Dig up whatever the thesaurus feeds you, I still don't think your comments are worth replying to as they have no purpose other than TRYING to wiggle around your own misguided comments.

Why should someone bother when you prove time and time again that you have the hardest time grasping the simplest of comments?

I'll tell you what...YOU have always been correct, I am wrong and simply do not understand as you are WAY over my head with your intellectual theories.

Now did you advance anywhere?

Have a nice day.

I just have to get at this one:

The original post and comment toward which Max was replying, appears to be when you said:
[i]How come the major corporations having female CEO's appear to perform lower and fail at a higher rates?[/i]

That is a pretty firm conslusion that does not speak of SOME women but all major corporations that have female C level employees will fail.

Another point you made, which I probbaly SHOULDN'T get into was;
[i]In God eyes the sexes are spiritually equal but given different tasks and placement.[/i]

Now I know you aren't implying that women are LESS than men, but it does demonstrate the mindset that "WOMEN HAVE THIER PLACE" and it is different than a MAN's place.

In 1950, this would have been acceptable my most, however as we have grown as a society and leaned otherwise, we have learned that women are JUST as capable or even moreso than men in many of these once MALE dominated fields. Once people start to realize that the men's place vs women's place concept is flawed, perhaps sexual equality may be possible.

As long as there are people, and many of them too (not just yourself), that believe in men's jobs and womens jobs, women will always have a hurdle in the workplace no matter how many times they prove such a theory incorrect.

True equality isn't possible until such mindsets end, it is a mindset that halts the ability of women to succeed in some places, therefore proving itself correct through repression and inacceptance of reality.

I have been rather civil considering your responses, or in this latest, lack thereof.

ad hominem argument? Against the man?

YOU posted stating that these discussion boards were all the same and they are just full of people arguing, yet you insist on conducting your own posts in that exact same fashion.

I poasted that your comments were negative and we are all doomed, which you seemed not to understand.

After reiterating myself over and over again you still don't see that YOU were the one who started this segue. I give up explaining and now you bring up an ad hominem poke? Give your head a shake, I will explain what keeps hapening to you in these forums where you figure people just want to argue.

You make a comment and when someone else adds comment you don't understand it. Then if they reiterate and explain it differently, you STILL don't understand it. You then make some other irrlevant post and the person once again tries to reiterate to help you understand their comments, you STILL don't understand. When they finally give up trying to get through to you, you then accuse them of bashing the person making th ecomment and not replying to the post.

You created your own problem here.

I know, I know ...ad hominem. Don't bother.

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=165736&messageID=1694956

This has nothing to do with knowing better or pretending to have a better idea. You posted doom and gloom as a result of the original post.

"Same garbage "help" offered elsewhere"

"Civility & quiet, well reasoned discourse have given way to the strident, emotional rants of the ill informed. The tyranny of the masses runs amok."

I commented you indicated that the sky was falling and we are doomed.

You didn't understand this.

I explained the reason for my post in response to your gloomy outlook on IT support websites.

You said I was either not addressing YOUR post, deliberately unresponsive, or trying to improve my activity ranking (which isn't achieved merely by multiple posts anyway).

You then went off of some tangent insisting that I had not responded to you nor responded to your comments. Well your comments were asking if I was referring to you, which I answered, thus being neither unresponsive nor speaking to anyone BUT yourself. In fact I even quoted your comments mroe than once just so you could see what I was responding to.

You still didn't see the connection between what you had stated and what I had said in response.

I give up trying to explain myself and you call that an ad hominem argument.

Perhaps TRYING to converse with you is an excercise in futility, you have proven nothing else to me in this second set of ridiculous posts with no direction or intent other than to cause an issue you don't seem to be able to grasp.

Perhaps this is also why you find all forums this way and they end up in just name calling and flaming people, you bring it out of people, whether purposely (which is probably the case) or by accident, in which case you are best off avoiding forums if you cannot keep up with the discussion without becoming tiring.

Flame, slam, character defamation take your pick, they all fit, ad hominem does not, I have addressed your comments every time, you are simply failing to see them yourself.

In addition, WHILE we are on the concept of you saying that there's no such thing as constructive help anymore.

"L Boone has posted answers to the following question(s):

1. DeskJets will not print in grayscale"

Very helpful I am sure. (honestly, I am not slamming your response I am merely pointing out how you have taken it upon yourself to offer your help to ONE person.)

So before you go running off at the fingertios about how help sucks these days, put your money where your mouth is.

YOU certainly haven't been too busy helping people out and merely sit here offering your contradictory opnion that personally reiterates the point you are making about others.

Now you say same garbage HELP offered elsewhere, in case you haven't noticed this is NOT a forum to get help, it is a discussion forum.

Want help? Go to Technical Q&A.

Want a personal opinion? Come here to the discussion forum. Just don't complain when the opinions differ from your own.

That's good to hear about Canada. I was recently at a "managing diversity" session in the UK and the tutor was saying "we're all getting used to more women in the workplace". She was shocked when I told her that in IT we were getting used to less of them. It is disturbing. My tuppenceworth is that it's down to two things: 1) the kind of macho morons setting the culture in IT, and 2) peer pressure on girls and women not to be "geeky". Obviously and thankfully this does not apply to all women, as evidenced by some of the postings on this topic.

For the past 20 years there have been organisations in the UK supposedly battling these trends, notably WISE, Women Into Science and Engineering. They have totally failed. I think it's about high time we recognised this for the serious problem it is and stopped leaving it for the educators and legislators to sort, as they're clearly not up to the task. For starters I think we need to tell a few of the jokers on this list to get with the century and upgrade from their Victorian attitudes.

It always amazes me how insightful you are.

When will people realize the eunuch is the feminist dream and many fools are falling into that trap.

There is a difference physically between men and women. Even the minds are very different. The 'theory' as you call it is to join in a union to become complete. Each part (male and female) is not fully equal in abilities and talents and that is not to diminish one or the other in dignity. A males upper body strength is greater than a females. A females center of gravity is lower. These and others gives each advantages in certain things.

Society desires to ignor this and make everyone the same when they are not. Spiritually, God ordained the sexes with thier place and tasks. If one is to pursue his or her spiritual plan then one cannot ignor this. But then again this world is of the Devil and this is what humans are to struggle against and the devil's disciples.

Can I hear a hallelujiah?!? Evil spirits OOOOOUT!!!

I thought we were discussing the ability for women to succeed as CEO's of corporations, and that fact that you stated quite clearly; "How come major corporations having female CEO's appear to perform lower and fail at a higher rates"

You are then insinuating this is apparent due to the obvious physical differences between a man and a woman. There are many undeniable differences physically AND psychologically, yet neither give proof to your statement about women showing a greater failure rate as C level employees of major corporations.

I am positive that men have also assisted in that failure either as doubtful clients (such as you prove yourself would be) or failure by men and women in other areas of the organization.

This is not a premeditated act of God (in my view) though.

I don't think that things will change unless society is willing to deeply modify its expectations of women, to allow more latitude in roles.

There is a strong norm in society that women are defined by the sum of their reproductive parts. I have heard many times the highest contribution a woman can make to society boils down to cell division. While not degrading those decisions, women also have a great deal to contribute to society in other realms: technical, scientific, and industrial.

I take my career very seriously. I expect others to do the same. I do not work recreationally. My performance should be judged based on my own abilities, not due to someone's assumption of those abilities before objective individual assessment of them.

If I were to ever have children, they would be raised to believe that their mother was not solely a mother. That she has dreams and goals and accomplishments outside of that sphere. I think that's the only way that attitudes will change.

Yes, we want to emasculate you.

Since you are male, you cannot possibly know how frustrating it is to have your skills minimized because you are female, and before you say you didn't do that, go back and read your posts, you did, a number of times. Being female, I have gone up against men like YOU for years, and it sucks. I have been ignored, I have had to prove that I am GOOD at what I do, and I am. I cannot and DO not accept that I have a predetermined role in life. I have children and a husband and our family arrangements work like a dream, my children do well in school, the are happy and mostly well behaved. It sure isn't Ozzie and Harriet, but it works fine. It certainly comes across that you view females as second class citizens. And if a woman has any strength at all, it makes her a feminist who wants to turn men into eunichs??? Very, very misogynistic.

Opinion:

1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: ?The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion? (Elizabeth Drew).

2. A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: a medical opinion.

3. A judgment or estimation of the merit of a person or thing: has a low opinion of braggarts.

4. The prevailing view: public opinion.

5. Law. A formal statement by a court or other adjudicative body of the legal reasons and principles for the conclusions of the court.

Sentiment:

1. A thought, view, or attitude, especially one based mainly on emotion instead of reason: An anti-American sentiment swept through the country.

2a. Emotion; feeling: Different forms of music convey different kinds of sentiment.

2b. Tender or romantic feeling.

2c. Maudlin emotion; sentimentality.

3. The emotional import of a passage as distinct from its form of expression.

4. The expression of delicate and sensitive feeling, especially in art and literature.

All in all, in my humble opinion, I would probably have to lean towards agreeing with deepsand in that opinion is primarily based on fact or something else substantive, while sentiment is primarily based more on emotion.

Some subtle differences:

Loving a person is a sentiment, not an opinion. Trusting (or not) someone you've known for a long time to perform a certain way is opinion, not sentiment. The former is based on emotion, the latter on experience and reason.

Disliking Microsoft and/or Bill Gates is a sentiment. Preferring Linux over Microsoft Windows is an opinion. The former is based on emotion, the latter on experience and reason.

Wanting to help those in need is a sentiment. Believing in higher taxes to redistribute wealth is an opinion. In this example (unfortunately), all too often, many people base their opinion on their sentiment. That's why I have always maintained that people shouldn't expect legislation that is based on emotion, but rather on reason.

I especially like definition number one for sentiment -- A thought, view, or attitude, especially one based mainly on emotion instead of reason. And compared against definition number two for opinion -- A judgment based on special knowledge...", there's an obvious difference. One could surmise, therefore, that sentiment is based on emotion while opinion is based on reason. An opinion is a judgement, a sentiment is a feeling.

So while opinions are not ALWAYS based on something factual, I believe they should be. Otherwise, they are merely sentiments. And while these two words are somewhat synonymous, they do indeed have entirely different meanings.

And a final analogy:

Next weekend, the Denver Broncos will be in Indiana to play the Indianapolis Colts in the first round of the NFL playoffs. What's your opinion, Max, on who's going to win the game? Well, my ties to Colorado makes the Broncos my sentimental favorite. However, being a student of the NFL like I am, and understanding the Xs and Os and player matchup strategies, my opinion is that the Colts will win easily. However, in such a case, one person's "sentiment" is another guy's "opinion". If not, why would people put money on the Broncos to win the game?

Colts 42, Broncos 17.

But this is only one guy's opinion.

This thread is about opinion vs sentiment.

Your Chicken Little reply was in a different thread, in which I pointed out that the problem raised by the originator of this discussion was all too common. Now, you may find such observation not to your liking, but that will not alter the reality.

You have entangled these 2 threads. Since each originates from posts of mine, and deal with different matters, I shall accordingly continue to treat them as separate.

I have to push the pram a lot.

http://www.geocities.com/fang_club/camelot_song.html

(sorry, this talk of prams reminded me of the Camelot song sang by the Knights of the Round Table in the Monty Python movie)

My post, which started this particular thread, was merely an observation the the problem addressed by he who originated this discussion was all too commonplace.

That you choose to reply to your own perception, rather than respond to the substance of my post, resulted in an entanglement of your own making.

You further ensnared yourself by crossing this thread with a separate one on opinion vs sentiment. All that I can do in this regard is to decline to allow the comingling of these threads.

As for your inference that I am not a helpful person, you would be well advised to always remember that the absence of proof does not constitute a proof of absence.

Enjoy.

While any given word may allow of multiple definitions, all are not equal at all times and in all places.

The original core subject of this discussion was knowledge, as opposed to the claim to hold such. The context here constrains the class of viable definitions to those which most closely bear upon knowledge.

Clearly, then, those definitions of "opinion" which allow for the inclusion of non-factual or irrational elements as their basis are inappropriate.

On the other hand, the definitions of "sentiment" do allow for irrational elements such as feelings.
And, while such are a necessary part of the human condition, they do not provide for the commonality required when giving advice.

I salute you for recognizing this important distinction.

May the future be kind.

Before I start, might I remind you that a glance at the peer directory listing would show that I've been an active member here longer than you have been, for what that's worth or for what it matters in a squirting contest such as that...

If it acts like a duck and quacks like a duck, should it complain when the duck hunters start shooting?

Let's see, in other parts of this very thread you and your friends have thrown your own blankets. While mine have been purposefully made to not ensnare an entire group, your's are rather large and wide reaching by proclaiming that those who are of able body and mind and still unemployed or underemployed are that way because of their own faults and that they should stop smoking, get off drugs, and quit being so lazy.

At least my thought processes are suffecient enough to understand that life is a complex thing and each person's situation is unique and that there are boundless ways in which a person's situation in life can either go right or they could go wrong, and that many of these situations are not worthy of acclaim nor blame.

So... We see that you have a dilemma. You insist that you should have the right to your opinion but do not wish to accept responsibility for that opinion nor the consequences of having and expressing said opinion? Ah, I suppose it's everyone's secret desire to have rights and no responsibilities to match, so I understand you, even if I disagree with you.

I have no qualms with you expressing any opinion you might have, but I do reserve the equal right to respond in kind with my own opinion as well... quacking like ducks as it were.

Or is it that the duality of insisting that you are a helpfull and compassionate human being while at the same time you lack a sense of sympathy and the desire to understand the problems that those you insist you help are facing is causing you some confusion and frustration?

I agree, it is a perplexing statement that you are opining. Perhaps a question of my own may help with your conundrum...

How can a technician help solve a problem that he or she does not wish to understand?

It's because most techie's have a very over-inflated opinion of themselves.

I transitioned into IT from a non-technical career field over 10 years ago. I really (for the most part) love what I do - but the people who think they are real "nerds" really torque me off sometimes. I've have people tell me "Oh you can't be a real techie - you only have Certs - not a real computer degree" (Oh yea, then why am I about to graduate with a MS in CIS - with honors). Or "users are losers" (Then I was a loser for 20 years or so - NOT). I could on, and on, but many of you don't think this applies to you, so I'll move on.

I just refuse to tolerate the ego crap. Yep, not everyone has 'IT skills'. Not everyone is as intelligent as you are. Users are - users - get over it. You are hired to solve IT problems, not to be an arogant IT egotist. Fix the users problems, write you code, post intelegent answers an responses that help people out - and get on with your life - I don't want to here how smart you are. Einstein was smart also - so what!

The snide superior comments just mask people who are basically so insecure in their ability to deal with people they think their 'IT superiority' somehow makes up for it. But I guess that's life.

If more people would not put up with it, the "know it all syndrome" from the techies would become much smaller - but then you will always have the annomyous whiners :-) Deal with it.

YOu keep referring to your original post.

Your original post stated: [b][i]Opinions matter, but ...
only when supported by facts.[/i][/b]

THIS is what I disagree with.

That post didn't mention sentiment at all actually and in went on to suggest; "Most offer few, if any, factual premises, & no cogent line of reasoning to support their conclusions."

Now you are suggesting that all opinions given that you deem unworthy are simply sentiment leading to a persons negative opinions.

Sentiment in this case would be the catalyst for the opinion.

"Bob always annoys me, my opinion of Bob is that he is annoying." This is an opinion based on sentiment.

The conclusion that is derived from such sentiment is an opinion which is then posted. Thus anyone sharing a negative, or what YOU deem unqualified/non factual, opinion is therefore simpley showing sentiment but they haven't formed an opinion because your facts show otherwise.

What I am saying is that your OPENING comment is incorrect as proven above, sentiment leads to opinion in many cases, some opinion is formed based on fact.
OR
People are different, some form opinions on fact others on feel, either way, they BOTH have an opinion and both are valid, even if one is then PROVEN incorrect.

The dofference beteween what I see and what you said is that I believe opinion is based on fact in many cases, but also based on personal feelings or sentiment towards the issue. Once it is concluded and shared it is an opinion, fact or not.

"your's are rather large and wide reaching by proclaiming that those who are of able body and mind and still unemployed or underemployed are that way because of their own faults and that they should stop smoking, get off drugs, and quit being so lazy."

No I haven't please post the link. I have said any able bodied person is able to find work with enough effort put forth. Don't give me crap about tough breaks and life falling apart and trying to pick up the pieces, I could write volumes on it I've done it so many times.

I have been ther eand done that. I have seen COUNTLESS others in the same awful and depresing situations at various stages in thier careers and lives.

The only people that didn't fix thier own situation by simply doing something about it were the ones who simply DIDN'T do anything about it but lay there wondering what hit them.

My comments were specifically targeted toward the topic of certified techs complaining about not being able to find work, blaming it on outsourcing, blaming it on the market or economy etc.

These people have obviously been gainfully employed and are highly employable in many other fields if not thier choice of IT professions.

The only reason an skilled person would remain unemployed is either living in a town that is rolling up the sidewalks (which I have seen and then watched the people relocate and rebuild thier lives) or they are simply not willing to bend and swallow some pride in order to pay the rent and raise thier families, even if at a lower cost of living and with sacrifices.

You can't convince me that there is a single person that visits these threads that is incapable of findig work. Perhaps UNWILLING to accept work, or TIRED of looking but not incapable.

This is not proclaiming that if people stopped smoking and doing drugs they would have a job.
I smoke like a chimney and drink like a fish, I can be the laziest guy you ever saw or the most active and eager go getter you ever hired. It's MY motivation that controls my life, not the job market.

I don't know Harriet, did she play lead guitar before Randy Rhodes and Zakk? :p

One positive view, such an anal midset is becoming a thing of the past it seems, the younger generation seems much more accpeting of equality. Perhaps due to the hard work of so many women for ao many years, one day there will be equality between men and women,but I fear that it will begin to tip the other way due to the momentum and eventually men will become second rate citizens...I know, I know, WILL become? LOL!

I still have dirty knees because my ex always got to wear the pants.

Damn do you actually talk to people like that? Is it a bold indication of your super intellect that generally falls upon deaf ears? One can only wonder.

You used negative 'sentiment' based on your experience in the industry and personal understanding of the issues to post a disheartening 'opinion', or conclusion. The purpose being to instill your own personal sentiment on another in the form of a conclusive opinion.

You're funny though! :D

I've often wonderned how much we might have learned from Rhodes had he not passed so early. I wasn't really a big fan of Wilde though.

Is Ozzy still alive? I saw Dana Carvey do an impression of Ozzy where he walked around like the Return of the Living Dead - funniest impression ever. Ozzy's funny because he is very intelligent, but his brain seems to move faster than his mouth. Kids... don't do drugs, or at least not that many.

Sounds like the Nick Burns character played by Jimmy Fallon on Saturday Night Live a couple of years ago. For those who have not seen that, he makes snide comments to users who needs his help, and his tag line (said very sarcastically after he was done) was "You're welcome!!".

http://www.geocities.com/snljimmyfallon/burnstranscript.html

Although I was born and raised in the USA, I understood what was meant by the original reference to pram and throwing out the toys. Maybe it came from growing up watching Monty Python and Benny Hill, but I have no problem understanding UK English, and was able to converse with the natives of London with no problem when I lived there for 6 months. And watching Steve Irwin (Crocodile Hunter) and the Crocodile Dundee movies help me understand the Aussies. I notice some similarities between the Aussie and Cockney dialects.

Neil wrote "actually I'm a Celt and my skin is a pale blue."
...
You need to stop using so much woad, dude!! You may end up looking like Mel Gibson in "Braveheart" or the Celts in the recent "King Arthur" movie. (Although Keira Knightley did not look too bad wearing not much more than blue woad dye in that movie) :-)

Please see

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=165719&messageID=1696351.

I have merely used the definition of "opinion" that is best suited to the subject of the post from which this discussion originated.

My post did little more than state that my observations were consistent with those of the originator of this discussion.

How is it that my appraisal of a situation JOINTLY observed is somehow INDIVIDUALLY deserving of ridicule?

Had a close call a while back but has just finished his OzzFest world tour, wchich incedentally was stolen out from under Black Sabbath by the reformed Judas Priest. (I saw it twice in the US, what a great show!)

It was funny to see these bands like Slayer (which most American kids idolize) actualy flop completely and the same kids just went crazy when they saw JP.

Ozzy is now, 56 and actually doing surprisingly well. The doc that he was seeing in Califormia during taping of the Osbournes had him pretty doped up, court cases are pending. He certainly isn't too well spoken yet is VERY intelligent and not much gets past him.

His clever secretary (who has been with him since the dark ages) wanted him to go to Canada as he had receieved a letter form the PM welcoming him. After hearing the letter Ozzy discounted it as a scam. HE was assured that it was legit but insisted on his peoplecontacting the Canadian PM to confirm, as it was it turned out to be a hoax. Can't slip too much past that guy, he's sharp even if not articulate.

As for Randy, his classical style was phenominal, had he not been killed i am sure he would now be one of the best guitarists around. He actually taught Zakk (one of Randy's first students), who honors Randy any chance he gets. I personally like Zakk's onstage stylings, but in a cut they just sound too 'scaly'. sibilance is his middle name and it just doesn't fit recordings, though great live. I think he had to pick up the pace and add a LOT more fills to bring the show up to speed as Oxxy started o slow down though, his older styles are not like that.

I also really like Black Label Society, I even got the band's full patches (EXPENSIVE!!) for my leather vest (they look so good!) .

BLS os very Ozzy mixed with some Pantera/Slayer due to thier US roots.

Hey, and he can sing/harmonize like there'sno tomorrow! \m/

your attitude, and the fact that you seem hell bent on achieving a Site Activity Rating of #1.

One can only assume that you have jumped in to offer your comments ad hominem in order to boost your own activity rating.

You obviously don't understand that multiple posting does not improve your ranking, there's much more to it than that. How stupid do you think the people at TR really are?

Why did you comment in this portion of the thread?

What constructive comments have you added here?

What is your aim if not to simply shoot down the poster and not the dialogue or simply try and achieve a higher user rating, that doesn't work that way?

Why are you even posting to this part of the thread?

You are not unique, we've seen many similar people here and it is definitely not deemed clever, even if it is self gratifying to yourself.

"Tis better to remain silent, and be thought the fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

Mark Twain

an OPEN discussion.

Please accept my abject apology for failing to the see the "Reserved for OZ" sign.

And, no, this is not ad hominem; it is pure, unadulterated ridicule.

Hoist on your own petard.

Are you a.k.a "Earl Camembert" or "Angry Black Man," infamous scourge of Usenet?

I'm merely emulating your good & gracious style.

After all, you do so want us all to be like you, do you not?

I shall, no matter how often I might stumble, with all my heart & soul, until I draw my final mortal breath, always try to follow your exemplary path.

RIP Dimebag. What a waste. I learned the guitar playing some of some of their older tunes. That was a sad day when I saw the news.

You've a full patch for your leather jacket?

Slayer... they only album that I really liked was that Punk Rock influenced album... "undisputed attitude" ...I think that's what it was called.

:)

1) No, this was a side note or segue between two people, niether of them being yourself.

2)You couldn't emulate my gracious style even if you did have the brain for it. You just make white noise.

3)Thank you but don't burst a blood vessel, you have a hard act to follow.

Now, you accuse me of multiple postings to get my ranking improved, which judging by your own performance is just as I said, not how you increase your rankings.

I can only imaging the crap you stir elsewhere with your anally retentive attitude towards others, you would never make good management, could never be considered a promotable employee and seem quite disgruntled at others because of it.

NO wonder you can drag up names you have had similar issues or comments from elsewhere in the kiddie chat world.

When the rest of the world is saying you are an idiot, is it time to blame the world or perhaps look at yourself?

As you seem to be a reasonable person I can at least be honest with you.

Slayer, Pantera,Slipknot etc. is NOT considered music outside North America. It really is what my parents used to call "noise" when I was playing Iron Maiden albums as a teenager.

I work with bands in Europe, old school, 70's and 80's style metal form the NWOBHM tat flooded here in the 80's.

These bands that were forced to GLAM for the L.A. scene are still recording and playing regulatly around the world, while hopping over North America on route. the quality and talent behind metal in North America is embarrassing, anywhere where true musicians can't outsell Britney Spears is a nasty place to sell music.

This is another reason I try to refrain using my company name and real name on TR. I sell a lot of music in the US and although I hate the industry there are still die hards out there.

As for BLS, yeah I got the set of biker style patches, the upper and lower crests with the BLS skull in the middle.
Like this set but an original, not a knock off. Nearly $400.00 Canadian, but I get SO many compliments on it at gigs!

Funny how Zakk looks like some hard assed biker now, it is really thier image as they play so many HA clubhouses. He's a VERY quiet, very soft spoken and VERY kind guy though. We have met briefly but I wouldnt say I know him nor he myself.

http://store.choppersapparel.com/bllaso4pakit.html

at precisely what point did it become YOUR PERSONAL side thread.

And, if you wished to keep it "private," then why post publicly? Packratt is certainly not cloaked; you could, therefore, have continued your "private" discussion with him in true privacy.

Furthermore, you yourself have, on numerous occassions, interjected yourself into "side threads."

Do not onto others as you would have them not do unto you.

It's certainly not a civility meter!

Neither is it a measure of objectivity.

I take TR's designation at face value; i.e., as a fact, not a feeling.

I suggest that you re-read Packratt's prior post.

This thread was started by Mr. Miami

Packratt and I have been on a segue for several posts (Without your grade of unintelligable ranting) and all of a sudden someone pipes up with sheer character flames and nothing to add at all, gee deeps**t has posted ! I would say you f'ed up again.

You again posted twice, did you not notice the edit button?

TR has set the algorhythm to monitor Technical Q&A activity, including number of responses accepted and discussion activity, but not simple spamming behaviour as you like to continue.

You are wrong, have been wrong for too many assumptive posts now and are simply wasting my time, and anyone else who still has the interest in reading such BS.

Read my post below, and you will understand that your comments now fall upon deaf ears, have fun entertaining yourself.

What business is it of yours what Packratts has said or what I have said in reply, are you the new moderator on a kiddie chat room?

Now go wash your hands and get out of the basement, mommy's calling you for supper.

1) MrMiami is the Root of this discussion; this Thread was started by Ouch.

2) By what right do you then lay claim to it?

3) Again, if you desired/required privacy, why post in public? Next time, go off channel. People who live in glass houses, and all that...

4) And, why have you interjected yourself into threads in reply to me?

5) Is there some reason why I should ignore Packratt's posts?

6) Provide the links to my alleged multiple posts, and I will then allow the fact.

MORE BS, I just can't resist, like a bad car accident.

Topic of the thread: Tech's Know it All. Started 12/30/04 by Mr.Miami. (This is done by clicking the 'START THREAD' link in the Discussions navugation bar.)

The segue was between two people that didn't include yourself. I had no need to speak in PM as it was not private and it is generally left alone unless someone has an opinion to add that falls inline with the posts, this isn't what you did, you just dropped in to flame and offer nothing relevant nor constuctive to the conversation while accusing me of just that.

Damn, you sound as lost and blind as "Sleepingliar" more and more with each post you make!

Where have you posted multiple times instead of editing?? You're kidding right? Now you are just proving you don't have a clue what you are saying or reading!!

"Sorry, I thought this was"
https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=165719&messageID=1697048

"Furthermore, Oz"
https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=165719&messageID=1697056

"And, oh Great & Powerful Wizard, please know that"
https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=165719&messageID=1697057

THREE posts one after another, no replies inbetween.

THEN,

"Considering that this thread was started by Ouch"
https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=165719&messageID=1697084

"Of "Site ACTIVITY Rating" do you not understand?"
https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=165719&messageID=1697087

"As for the rest of your inane rambling, they seem to be self descriptive."
https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=165719&messageID=1697091

Now this makes SIX posts one after the other with only ONE response splitting them up into three's.

BEFORE that, and in the same thread:

"Oz you are confused"
https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=165719&messageID=1696287

and

"Thank you, Maxwell"
https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=165719&messageID=1696351

Again back to back. Yet your performance rating, which you wrongly assume is based on the number of posts you make still didn't budge...hmmmmm, I'd say you are wrong, very wrong. Only because I know better though, they described the meter when they first started using it.

Now just look at the titles! You post these titles much as another clown used to, in order to get others to read your garbage.

You waste SO much of people's time here, pretending your are going to say or prove something only to post some nonsense that isn't even the remotest bit logical, how dumb do you think people are here?

And to address you closing crap below, firstly I don't claim to be a gentleman.

People who know me understand me and like me for my ability to be frank and speak my mind, I get such peer mail frequently even from those who some deem got a good spanking, pus*y's don't do well in my industry.

Soft sugar coated talk gets you walked on, not respected. Those that can't handle it are creating natural selection and leaving the rest of us to conduct business with real people.

No room for grandiose, sugar coated candy assed BS in the real world sorry, stay in consulting where you are praised for conforming.

Words don't mark squat. They are words and can be thrown out as needed to whatever desired effect one chooses. I could throw out nothing but compliments all the tme, I am not being honest nor gaining any credibility for doing so.

You are suggesting that I need to be accepted by yourself if I am to be a man, give me a break! Why the he11 should I appease you or seek your acceptance, or anyone else's for that matter?

There's a right place for such phony BS, as I am not in sales anymore and have plenty of good friends, there's no need to suck up for acceptance.

It's a game people play to make friends, why do you think so many marriages fail after the pretending is over and the real people come out?

Conformity shows weak character, it shows lack of independance, it is just plain creepy.

I am from a country where people say what they mean, not what the other person wants to hear. If you don't want to read it, don't click the link if you can't take it.

Lastly, why have you taken it upon yourself to speak for others here and say what YOU think the impression they get is? If they don't like what I say, they can stand up and say so, if not, they can sit down and shut up.

In closing, please provide me with the link saying that I must conform to what people want to hear and shouldn't type what I actually feel.

Your arguments are so old, as I have always said, some people are here to make friends because they have no real friends outside mom's basement.

Other people are here to offer thier personal opinions, and aren't expected to apologize because of it.

I have butted in on your posts to offer an opinion on the subject, not flame the poster as you do and add a catchy title that doesn't even address the post, all too familiarly and with little logic or commons sense involved. How many times have I used your name in the title? Do I need to? Do you not realize that if I post below you after several back and forth posts that I may just be responding to you? Or should I start with "deepsh*t, you are a retard! Here's my proof, hey...look everyone!!"

You have proven you can't form a logical reply, you are just here to be an annoyance. I will give you that, you certainly are a tiring person who simply likes to walk in circles thinking if he continually changes his focus it will detract from his own mistakes.

Do you answer questions or just ask them? Do you actually have a purpose OTHER than to be an loser? If so, you may want to gather your thoughts again.

Also, if you work for Computer World Coropration (the smallest corparation in America) as a consultant, what the hell do you know anyway?!?

Sure you are old and you have been sitting with a comuter most of your life while others lived thiers ,but what have you possibly learned if you are stuck consulting for a corporation that is so small it is almost a non-entity?

Other than item 6), you've once again failed to produce a substantive response.

As for 6), while you may call these "multiple" posts, since each is different, I call them "separate" posts.

That's my "opinion," and I'm sticking to it!

Aside from the fact that I'm not a "metal maniac", I don't really take such opinions to heart. I'm not a big fan of the Slipknots and the Slayers. Lately, I've been more into drum and bass techno/trance, but my flavour is pretty diverse.

just to give you an example - today I listened to Biggie Smalls, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Paul Oakenfold, Bloodhound Gang, and Dead Kennedy's. Oh yeah... and some Henry Rollins "Spoken Word" stand-up.

Every day is something different... I just saw the word "Pantera", and figured I'd pay my respects to one of the fallen. Did you see that? Someone shot Dimebag at a show a couple of weeks ago.

Re: Glam - What the hell happened to Sammy Haggar? Montrose was so cool.

The Wizard of Oz is amazing. He is a genius on nearly every topic and incorrect almost everytime with his half truths and sound good/feel good jargon. He claims to have another life but he is in the top 3 of the top 100 posters.

He may not sit in front of a keyboard like the rest of us. I think he may be like the 'Lawn Mower Man' who was infused into the silicon world. Eventually, the computer may get fed up with him then reject him and spit him out as the 'Demon Seed'.

Both of those movies are cool by the way. A little dated though.

You make THREE consecutive posts to the same person and you don't deem that as multpile postings, when you can simply edit the first (which hadn't been responded to at the time) and add your comments ?

Now I think I am beginning to understand where you are coming from, unfortunately.

As for numbers, I don't know where you are getting THEM from, no number 6 in my comments.

If you are referring to your 6th post, that's the only one that COULD have been separated!

You do understand that you SIT on the toilet in the morning right? You place your head under the shower head?

As for substance, you haven't posted with any substance or logic to ANY of your posts I have EVER read, not one. That's why you are such a confusing person to try and discuss anything with, you simply have no point nor direction but just stream of collective words.

Just look at your titles and they have nothing to do with what you post?

Then again,a show from Detroit last night focused on how spoken American English has slid so far off the grammar scales that even teachers are being sent back to English classes to improve the grammar they teach to the students. They showed that what is considered 'pig English' the dialect that the slaves developed when brough over from Africa was more accurate than today's commonly spoken American dialect.
Not that it is correct, but that it hasn't changed over time.

So your failure to be understood may be corrected with a little work on your part.

That title will show up in some pretty strange websearches I'm sure!

Yes I heard about it, the promo company sent out industry wide info shortly after it happened in case any radio spots were going on.

I won't say he had it coming, nobody has THAT coming but it wasn't all straight up either. "You mess with the bull and you get the horns!" but he got more than detention

Hagar, I thoink what happened is people actually realized he was only an average guitar player and didn't have much of a vocal register or stage presence in front of a band like Van Halen. VH has always had one of the best front men in the biz, like him or not, David Lee was a ticket seller! A frontman Hagar is not.

My current paylist on my mp3 player?

PF- The Wall entire (Dark Side and Animals were swapped out last night)
Anton Bruckner Symphony #7 (all four movements)
Gerard McMann- Cry little sister
INSX- never tear us apart
Lenny Kravitz- Let love rule and My Prcious Love
Judas Priest - Fever
Tears for Fears - Everybody wants to rule the world
Ozzy - Perry Mason, Mr. Crowley and Road to Nowhere oh...and Hellraiser
Ted Nugent-Stranglehold
Motorhead- We are the Road Crew
Metallica- Ride The Lightning Full CD and Master of Puppets Full CD.
A few tracks and demos from various bands I work with

Yup, a little diversity makes the world go 'round! :D

No cunttree, no Hop Hop, no RAP (whch actually means Ripping Artists Pressings, it should be SAP, Sampling Artist Pressings though, how unoriginal can you get?)

I think I am gonna throw some Men at Work on it before I go out. :p

Yes you are right, I don't like it when posts must only contain facts, that removes discusison as it removes personal opinion. Did I say otherwise? My mistake or not my intent in saying so.

This doesn't have ANYTHING to do with posting third party comments about other people.
Want to say something to me, you can post. Want to call me names and say things you can't say here? I have active peer mail, fire away, just don't expect na pssive response.

I have no problem with you disliking my comments, go for it and tell me what you think about things, I have a pretty damn thick skin.

Telling others what you think is just spineless.

That's my attitude towards anyone, friends, work, online ANYONE. SPEAK your mind, but don't talk behind people's bacls. Got a p[roblem, I want to hear it.

Just don't expect me to tip toe and dance around a reply. Dish it out if you can take it in return, if not, it's best to remain silent I think.

As we would say at the Academy (USNA, aka Anapolis), Oz is one who is given to "relying more on a woman's intuition than a Midshipman's erudition."

He would be hard pressed to survive Plebe Summer; for him to see his Youngster Cruise would be damned near impossible.

At least Earl can respond, rather than talking past the point.

And, he even possesses some knowledge!

I am simply not who you wanted me to be, sorry 'bout that.

Super Trooper, 620957H US Super Trooper Troops 1977!! Killed 14 men with my nose hair,SIR!! But talk thrid party because I can't address anyone head on and must snicker in an aside that will be overheard.

Well done, nice that you added your military experience too, is that a prerequisite in the US? Kind like when dogs sniff each other's bum. :D

Do us a favor and keep your insults for yourself.

It's a one way street with you isn't it.

I should have known better.

Pay no attention to that scarecrow behind the curtain.

Tin Man & Lion

Or, are you still mistaking the mirror for a window.

Reality for you, OZ, can be found if you follow the yellow brick road but watch out for the flying monkeys. Eventually, you'll get to toot the horn just like the wizard.

That would be one explanation, wouldn't it.

It seems you are so clever you have figured me out and have all the answers, mind boggling!

It's surprising that someone with your superior intelligence level wound up in an IT career. One would think your wisdom would have taken you further, but then again you probably just want to stay grounded and keep a level head and hang with the peons for entertainment.

Choose one of the following.

1) Yes
2) No